Tv Girls (new HBO show) (Read 2432 times)

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Well, I'm posting on the web so I think that falls within the realm of "talking with ebuds"... I'm a little more diplomatic talking to people face-to-face but whatever, but I'm not standing on a soapbox and I can be flippant on here and not care as much. I'm not causing any harm aside from being a little dismissive of things I disagree with on Saltw.net's forums. I'm not sure if I follow what you mean by "replecating the language used by proponents of oppression", but like I said I'm not so invested in this respect. You're right that I do think it's cute to be dismissive in a way that provokes angry responses or whatever, it's cathartic, but I'm not being a 'proponent of oppression' by any stretch of the imagination(well maybe it you want to stretch it into being "epistemologically oppressive" but then we're wading even further into the academic swamp of subaltern discourse). If that's where you have a problem then maybe we don't share the same sense of humor, at least be upfront about it being beside the point. I don't really care what people's intentions are cuz it's just a plea for acknowledgement, for people to 'think right', and that ain't my grumpy marxist bag.
 
I think what differentiates a platitude/pseudo-critique is that critique questions the object while a pseudo-critique assumes it as premise and in doing so precludes actual criticism. These pseudo-criticisms are actually recuperated and end up reinforcing the state of affairs in very real ways. Unions 'sit at the table' and are actively involved in the process of cutting salaries/benefits and laying people off, women and homosexuals now get the chance to kill and die on the front lines of wars, now we have multiracial cops and prison guards, etc. Great... Lets have a universally fair and unoffensive representation of everyone to be consumed as images holding our attentions between viagra and tampon commercials.
Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 03:25:43 am by Barack Obama
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ugh god this makes me nauseous. everything sucks, just realize that, feel free to enjoy it who cares im gonna watch youtube videos of people pretending to pee in front of cops
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idk, the thing that troubles me about those is that by specifically focusing on people pretending to pee in front of cops, you're kind of unintentionally constructing this filter through which various demographics are sorted in order of their tendency to interact with law enforcement.  i think this is one of those points where you start to encounter a really meaningful problem in disproportionate representation, and i don't think i should have to explain all the bad places that could potentially lead.  i'd feel a lot more comfortable if you were to search for youtube videos of people pretending to pee in front of law enforcement officials in addition to city managers, food service and hospitality workers, civil service employees, university professors, etc.
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lol
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I have not spent as much time engaged in the critical analysis of culture, media as I should have and I feel like the things that were said in this thread have exposed me to insights I might not have come to on my own as easily, so um I am sorry this has made you upset Mr. Obama but I am glad you said and thought about these things :o)
Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 02:56:45 am by Neuropath
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Well, I'm posting on the web so I think that falls within the realm of "talking with ebuds"... I'm a little more diplomatic talking to people face-to-face but whatever, but I'm not standing on a soapbox and I can be flippant on here and not care as much. I'm not causing any harm aside from being a little dismissive of things I disagree with on Saltw.net's forums. I'm not sure if I follow what you mean by "replecating the language used by proponents of oppression", but like I said I'm not so invested in this respect. You're right that I do think it's cute to be dismissive in a way that provokes angry responses or whatever, it's cathartic, but I'm not being a 'proponent of oppression' by any stretch of the imagination(well maybe it you want to stretch it into being "epistemologically oppressive" but then we're wading even further into the academic swamp of subaltern discourse). If that's where you have a problem then maybe we don't share the same sense of humor, at least be upfront about it being beside the point. I don't really care what people's intentions are cuz it's just a plea for acknowledgement, for people to 'think right', and that ain't my grumpy marxist bag.
OK, I went too far in my response to you but it just rubs me the wrong way to see someone being so dismissive of things that don't really directly affect them (such as representation in the mass media). it's one thing to disagree with it but I don't particularly see the use for ridiculing it in the way that you did (and I don't think your characterization was entirely accurate). if the language ends up essentially being "heh look at these idiots for wanting more blacks in the media" then it's indistinguishable from what racists and the likes say. and I know you're nothing like that.

I should've been more diplomatic in my response to you, sorry about that, and I don't want to keep dragging this out. just to clarify one last thing, I don't think a person's intentions always warrant respect or forgiveness or anything like that, because having the right intentions really doesn't matter one bit if your actions are hurtful, but at least they do mean that they're within the realm of people you take seriously and are capable of engaging on a constructive level. especially if you say something that they hear daily from people who don't have good intentions at all, then all you're gonna get is a visceral reaction.
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I think what differentiates a platitude/pseudo-critique is that critique questions the object while a pseudo-critique assumes it as premise and in doing so precludes actual criticism. These pseudo-criticisms are actually recuperated and end up reinforcing the state of affairs in very real ways. Unions 'sit at the table' and are actively involved in the process of cutting salaries/benefits and laying people off, women and homosexuals now get the chance to kill and die on the front lines of wars, now we have multiracial cops and prison guards, etc. Great... Lets have a universally fair and unoffensive representation of everyone to be consumed as images holding our attentions between viagra and tampon commercials.
that sounds about right to me. but that raises a question: do we not stand the risk of foregoing real improvements to people's lives in rejecting these institutional structures, which, as you say, serve to strengthen capital? so what you say about unions is true but, ceteris paribus, life in a unionized society would certainly be better than life in one without unionization, just due to the fact unionized workers are able to bargain for health benefits, safety regulations, et cetera. is a stance against the existence of a structure mutually exclusive with a stance on that same structure's internal operational details? and, importantly, is it right to conflate the latter with an explicit rejection of the former?

I mean everything you say sounds correct, and I don't think imperialism is any less bad when the ones killing brown people are gays and women. but to me those seem separate issues. I don't feel conflicted in taking a stance on the military's hiring policy and simultaneously believing the entire military should spontaneously combust.
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I mean it might be a matter of practicality. strengthening capital means weakening any real reform effort. but that seems to me like it's getting dangerously close to saying "let everything become as bad as possible, let people's latent dissatisfaction with the system become manifest, then we'll be more able to do more serious, game-changing reforms." and I know I once said something similar to you and I know for a fact you don't agree with that characterization. (you recommended "nihilist communism" to me and whoops I've had it for more than a year and haven't gotten around to reading it yet.)
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I've watched first 3 episodes of this show.  maybe i'm just not from a rich enough family or whatever to kind of appreciate a lot of the financial/first world problems.  the more social aspects etc. stuff is more interesting, but there isn't really any characters i like either, so that doesn't help.
Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 02:37:07 pm by ATARI
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Years later I see all this pretty differently. I dunno where or if Diet Coke is still alive but hey ya dick, how's it going, and thosepeople. I pretty much see where you guys were coming from back then. Looking over my old posts, I wasn't talking total shit, but I definitely get the exasperation and disinterest in this particular demographic. I've started thinking, for example, that feminism means different things to different classes of people. Some motherfuckers are talking about the principle of a tampon tax, some motherfuckers are talking about being forced into a lifetime of servitude and rape. There are degrees and priorities. I begin to see the frustrating stuff about that with a show like Girls, and by the way I stopped watching it in s3 cos it was too stupid by that point. 
 
Finally, I don't know if anyone is still here but hi!
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Hai Jaime
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Jammy
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Years later I see all this pretty differently. I dunno where or if Diet Coke is still alive but hey ya dick, how's it going, and thosepeople. I pretty much see where you guys were coming from back then. Looking over my old posts, I wasn't talking total shit, but I definitely get the exasperation and disinterest in this particular demographic. I've started thinking, for example, that feminism means different things to different classes of people. Some motherfuckers are talking about the principle of a tampon tax, some motherfuckers are talking about being forced into a lifetime of servitude and rape. There are degrees and priorities. I begin to see the frustrating stuff about that with a show like Girls, and by the way I stopped watching it in s3 cos it was too stupid by that point. 
 
Finally, I don't know if anyone is still here but hi!
I mean yeah, and then there's the sort of middle-class take on feminism that the gamerverse so vehemently objects to
 
I think it was since we last talked that I moved to the wealthiest part of america for a job. I've still never watched girls because I'm afraid of how awful it might be, but yeah, they're rich kids? lots of pretty consistently irritating people in those ranks. it's like lack of adversity melted them into walking caricatures of regular people, and they just wanna contrive or buy these genuine experiences for themselves, maybe including being oppressed. ya ofc sexism and everything exists at all levels of society, but when u have kids of wealthy upper/upper-middle class families who get to just skate thru life, and then they start shitting on poor or middle-class kids for having entrenched regressive views like they can in any way relate to their lives, it sucks.
 
or maybe they're just so used to the lack of adversity that any advent of it in their world really cuts deep? the show probably covers this I guess.
Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:44:03 pm by E-Z Chips
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All Grown Up And Still Posting About Feminism On A Games Forum