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General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: pig style on August 29, 2009, 01:29:44 am

Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on August 29, 2009, 01:29:44 am
EDIT: NDA lifted! I'll probably bling out this topic in the next few days with some pretty pics and vids.

Ever thought what it would be like to play dota without warcraft III required? Well here's your chance, Heroes of Newerth is a dota clone developed by S2 games focused on completely redoing dota in a new engine. Thus, getting rid of all the annoying kinks the original unfortunately had due to restrictions of the warcraft 3 editor.

Now there's a couple of dota spin offs out there, but HoN sacrafices a little originality for the sake of remaining true to the classic. Many old heroes return in different forms, retaining the same styles they had (some have been slightly changes, or meshed with another hero, and a few are 100% new heroes). The first map (Forests of Caldaver) is a direct copy of the original dota map, but the other 2 maps (watchtower and 3v3 map darkwood) are original. Most items are from dota but given different names. So basically you are lookin at dota recoded and with a facelift.

The game looks really good too, since it's still in beta I can't post screens or anything and my descriptive skills are shit but trust me when I say the game looks pretty sick in action.

So the game is still in closed beta but they have been handing out beta keys like it's no tomorrow, Unfortunately I only have 1 invite left (should get more soon though) but I think every account gets 3 invites each so it should be pretty easy to get everybody playing. Not to be a dick or anything but don't come in here expecting keys if you aren't that active at gw! But like I said beta keys are pretty easy to get surfing the interwebs would probably find you one sooner or later if you are unlucky with this topic.

Alright! So let's try to use this to get some people keys and try to get some gw games going on. I'm pretty terrible but I have a good game every now and then. Fortunately there's a wiki up to give you some info on the heroes and items/shops/units/etc.

http://honwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

Edit: Bick found some really nice guides for beginners! You need a beta account to access the forums though.

Quote from: bick on August 29, 2009, 07:50:28 pm
Here's a few topics that give information for all heroes and helped me a lot (you have to have a beta account in order to see this topics)
Heroes of Newerth Basics (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=5465) - Covers the basics of the game
Big Item Guide (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=9084) - Goes over every item and what heroes that item is good for
Keitaru's AltTAb Guide for All Heroes (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=2788) - Tells you a cookie-cutter skill build and starting items for all heroes


Everyone is kind of bad at first, it's a steep learning curve due to the doucheness of the most of the dota playerbase. But don't be scurred It's pretty easy to learn the basics, after that it's all about playing!

Like I said I only have 1 invite for now but toss me a pm and you might snag it. I'm sure some more gwers got into the beta tho.

List of GW Players

GW Name - HoN Name

pig style - Fastpaced
leafo - leafo
bick - keytarhero
Jester - dhakkel
Verne - Verne
KBJGXLM - Strygwyr /// Skrimp
LordTyphoon - MrElTee
Krinsdeath - Krinsdeath
Ryan - Ryan_


Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: General Robert E. Lee on August 29, 2009, 01:41:47 am
I've never really played DotA, but I am always surprised by how popular it is for a Warcraft 3 custom map.  It really should have gone stand-alone years ago, it's pretty stupid that it's still just a custom map for a game released in 2002.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Happy HELLoween on August 29, 2009, 02:17:08 am
I just got the linux beta for this last night. It was the first time I played dota and the players definitely were assholes. There is no offline mode, so I had to play on pubs, and even in the newbie servers, people would complain constantly. But after a match I was able to figure out how to play, I just had no strategy. Needless to say I got a lot of SHIT for it. One recurring thing that happened was some friends would create a newbie game, and before it launched they would lock themselves on the same team, leaving us new guys on the other side. The game predicts the outcome, and it would say something like 100% chance to win for them, 0% for us, which made me laugh. It definitely is satisfying when you get to kill someone's hero though.

I could see it being a lot of fun if I learned how to play, if I do play again I will definitely check out that wiki. Also if some gw guys want to do a match I'll join.

I happened to stumble upon this link yesterday, http://beta.heroesofnewerth.com/H829BYwa3z/facebook.php, there were 20k keys when I got one, but there seem to be 0 now! I might have some invites, I don't know where to look though, I'll take a peek.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on August 29, 2009, 02:42:35 am
Yeah pubs are pretty terrible, but some hosts are cool and use the auto balance feature. I've been a few new player friendly games where people act like respectable human beings.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bick on August 29, 2009, 07:47:51 am
I've been playing the beta and having a blast (my nickname on it is keytarhero). I never played DotA, but the heroes forums has a guides sections. So, for the first game with a new hero I just alt-tab and find the guide. It tells you the standard item strategy/skill build and helped me immensely with getting to know the game. Pubs do suck though, I always play with leavers/complainers/pubstompers (I really don't get the fun in absolutely dominating people without any sort of challenge). I prepurchased the game so I get free (limited?) beta invites if anyone wants one. I haven't figured out how to send them, but once I do I'll give them out.

EDIT: Figured it out, just send me a pm if you want a beta invite.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Rowain on August 29, 2009, 12:14:10 pm
yeah DOTA for some reason attracts a huge number of assholes who expect everyone else in the world to have as much or more knowledge than them. Like you only have to pick one of the gimper heroes to have them spitting venom through chat at you. At least waaay back when I played those games.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on August 29, 2009, 12:26:42 pm
I just hope they'd introduce new gamemodes or something, it's a good game for sure but it does get stale when you've played dota for years and a facelift won't keep up the interest.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bonzi_buddy on August 29, 2009, 12:49:18 pm
nnnnnnnnope. not gonna play it again. Won't Get Fooled Again. i was on this "get rid of all games you really don't like" spree and lately after few matches it struck me that dota/HoN wasn't for me. i'm still pretty terrible at it.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on August 29, 2009, 02:49:58 pm
I've been rather addicted to HoN lately. It's a great game if you can get past the assholes and find proper games.

Tips for the new players:
» Never ever pick Scout.
» Agility heroes in general are bad for beginners as they require lots of farming and are for the most part only effective in the very late game.
» Direct nukers are usually the best to learn the game with. Pyromancer, Thunderbringer and Defiler are good and easy to learn heroes with very useful spells and great early game effectiveness.
» If you want to play melee, pick a strength hero like Pestilence, Jereziah, Keeper of the Forest, Legionnaire, Hammerstorm or Electrician.
» Don't aim for the expensive items first. Get some cheap stats boosting items like Fortified Bracers which give you a small boost to all your stats and great boost in your health.
» Crowd control rules the game. To be useful part of your team a save choice is to pick a hero with some kind of disable ability. Area of effect stuns such as Pyromancer's "Dragon Fire" and Pestilence's "Impale" are great way to disable multiple enemy heroes.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on August 29, 2009, 07:39:19 pm
Guys, I found a bunch of leaked HoN screenshots (http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/maps/warcraft_3/dota_allstars/) if you wanna see before you play.

But in seriousness, they took DOTA clone to the next level. Wow.

But yeah, I just played a game as Defiler, I think I ended as 0 - 17 with everyone shouting at me. I don't really get how Defiler is useful, but I understand that in the hands of someone inexperienced all heroes are useless.

I need more tips for newbies.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bick on August 29, 2009, 07:50:28 pm
Quote from: Jester on August 29, 2009, 07:39:19 pm
Guys, I found a bunch of leaked HoN screenshots (http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/maps/warcraft_3/dota_allstars/) if you wanna see before you play.

But in seriousness, they took DOTA clone to the next level. Wow.

But yeah, I just played a game as Defiler, I think I ended as 0 - 17 with everyone shouting at me. I don't really get how Defiler is useful, but I understand that in the hands of someone inexperienced all heroes are useless.

I need more tips for newbies.

Here's a few topics that give information for all heroes and helped me a lot (you have to have a beta account in order to see this topics)
Heroes of Newerth Basics (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=5465) - Covers the basics of the game
Big Item Guide (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=9084) - Goes over every item and what heroes that item is good for
Keitaru's AltTAb Guide for All Heroes (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=2788) - Tells you a cookie-cutter skill build and starting items for all heroes
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on August 29, 2009, 09:14:44 pm
Guys post your account names so I can put them in the first post and we can get some games going, I'm not too great myself but I can at least teach you the basics of how to play (without treating you like shit). Item and skill builds are a different thing, but I know my way around a few heroes.

Yeah supra mairo it can get kind of stale, fortunately there's two new maps to keep things fresh. But I agree I think some new game modes should be introduced, although I don't know what they could be!
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: SupremeWarrior on August 29, 2009, 09:32:06 pm
Wow! This sure sounds good. I never played DoTa before but I read about it, maybe we can get a GW DoTa thing going on or something.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: HL on August 29, 2009, 09:52:30 pm
This game ownnnz, GameTrailers posted the first official vid on it too:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-debut-heroes-of/55218?type=flv
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: dragonx on August 29, 2009, 09:53:38 pm
Has anyone tried that other game, league of legends?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on August 29, 2009, 10:00:35 pm
My account name is Verne. 8-)
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on August 29, 2009, 11:46:35 pm
My first account is Strygwyr. It had a 1.7-1.8 kdr by the 50th game so I decided to reroll since it took some getting used to in the first couple of games.

My second account Skrimp has a 1.8 kdr by the 48th match but that pissed me off because in some games I would be teamed with noobs who feed and in turn caused me to get rolled over. It sucks because I can't leave without being penalized, cannot call for remake because everyone in HoN are dicks, can't hug the fountain because idling in fountain = auto kick (and a leave penalization) and the like. That and the fact that some matchups are just plain imba. I don't care about winning. I don't care about PSR. I do care about my KD ratio because I know I'm better than that. In most games I am 3:1 and occasionally I'm around 10:1. Its those fucked up games where other people's fuckups lead me to excessive dieing that ruins my score. That and habitual ksers... of which there are a lot. My favorite rolls in dota are carry... but if I set up a kill I know I can get it's always some fucker with berserker builds and playstyles that take the last hits from me.

Enough about score whoring. It's superior to Dota in almost every possible way.... the only real deficit being the amount of heroes currently available and subsequent lack of appropriate counters for specific ones (ie balance). Every hero can be countered... sure... but there are certain combinations of heroes that will be unbeatable (usually involving Electriction+etc or any 3+ combination of Magnus, Tempest, Tree, Pyromancer, and Pebbles) which sucks because the game keeps track of everything... bad matchups included. Dota gets its share of bad matchups but HoN gets them far too often.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on August 30, 2009, 08:45:52 am
That trailer is really dumb because it just advertises these details that aren't even directly related to the gameplay and there's never even any hint of what the gameplay / game is like.

You need to have played dota to know what the gameplay is and then watch the trailer to know what the improvements are. I know they're marketing it for dota players mostly but that is a fucking horrible group in every way and a more general information about the game would probably be a good idea to interest NEW players.

Everyone who hasn't played dota and doesn't know this is a clone will just watch that trailer and at every time some text flashes on the screen they'll be like HMM OK SO THERES CLAN MANAGEMENT CAN I SEE WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT PLEASE?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: MysteriousWanderer on August 30, 2009, 11:17:52 pm
I don't get why they just reused most of the heroes and items instead of creating new ones altogether because once this comes out, besides the improvements and such...is there a point to buying this game when you can just play dota for free?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Rajew on August 30, 2009, 11:23:07 pm
Quote from: MysteriousWanderer on August 30, 2009, 11:17:52 pm
I don't get why they just reused most of the heroes and items instead of creating new ones altogether because once this comes out, besides the improvements and such...is there a point to buying this game when you can just play dota for free?
Don't have to use battle net

edit: also there are improvements? I do not see how improvements is not a point. Improvements are a pretty big point, imho.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: dark_crystalis on August 31, 2009, 12:33:29 am
will this be mac compatible? god I hope so :(
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bick on August 31, 2009, 02:12:45 am
Quote from: dark_crystalis on August 31, 2009, 12:33:29 am
will this be mac compatible? god I hope so :(

There's a mac version of the beta so I'd assume it would be.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on August 31, 2009, 03:19:50 am
I've never played WC3 or WoW whatsoever so I'm not familiar with DotA at all. Is this game anything at all like Savage (the first game from S2games)? Because if so, then someone hook me up! (EDIT: I also didn't realize that Savage 2 is now freeware... interesting...)
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on August 31, 2009, 04:17:17 am
Dota predates WoW by what.. 2-3 years? Why do people still confuse WoW's engine for WC3.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on August 31, 2009, 05:24:55 am
Quote from: MysteriousWanderer on August 30, 2009, 11:17:52 pm
I don't get why they just reused most of the heroes and items instead of creating new ones altogether because once this comes out, besides the improvements and such...is there a point to buying this game when you can just play dota for free?

It's meant to be a improved dota, not completely original game. I'm sure there will be new heroes (and there are already I believe), but for now I think they just want to recreate dota entirely.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Sludgelord on August 31, 2009, 05:35:23 am
Quote from: pig style on August 31, 2009, 05:24:55 am
It's meant to be a improved dota, not completely original game. I'm sure there will be new heroes (and there are already I believe), but for now I think they just want to recreate dota entirely.
Are you serious? That's sort of disgusting.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on August 31, 2009, 05:54:45 am
Quote from: Mateui on August 31, 2009, 03:19:50 am
I've never played WC3 or WoW whatsoever so I'm not familiar with DotA at all. Is this game anything at all like Savage (the first game from S2games)? Because if so, then someone hook me up! (EDIT: I also didn't realize that Savage 2 is now freeware... interesting...)
Well I only played Savage 2 briefly but it uses the same style and LORE (very important) as Savage does, and I guess it is kinda similar to Savage 2 in that you have 2 factions battling it out through multiple paths/lanes trying to destroy the opposing teams base. It doesn't have the cool stuff from Savage 2 like portals and sacrificial pits / scars and a commander but that's because Dota didn't have anything remotely similar either.

All in all, Savage 2 was a lot more balanced game because it relied more heavily on the players ability to play rather than what unit he is controlling. Offcourse it wasn't very realistic to beat any of the scar demons with a worker but there was a slim chance it could've happened.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on August 31, 2009, 06:21:55 am
Quote from: dogchode69 on August 31, 2009, 05:35:23 am
Are you serious? That's sort of disgusting.
That's really what this game is. I wish I could post screenshots, because man it looks exactly, EXACTLY like WC3 except with modern textures. Same models for creeps, same exact gameplay, man, even the title screen art is the loading screen art from WC3 but with different characters. Even the font is the same.

IDK if the items are the same, but I'm guessing so.

That being said, that's pretty much what people want, really.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on August 31, 2009, 07:18:46 am
Quote from: Jester on August 31, 2009, 06:21:55 am
IDK if the items are the same, but I'm guessing so.

They are.

Quote
It's meant to be a improved dota, not completely original game. I'm sure there will be new heroes (and there are already I believe), but for now I think they just want to recreate dota entirely.

There are new heroes... but judging by what's been done it isn't their intention to recreate dota ENTIRELY. What they want to do is to bring Dota to today's standards of play... give or take. And judging by the skills used on the hybrid/ new heroes there are a few that will not make it over (like Kunkka and Weaver for example).

Quote
Are you serious? That's sort of disgusting.

Is it really? The basis of the Dota you are familiar with is not the original and even then creative control of that particular incarnation has changed hands since it's own creation (not that Dota is all that original, it started as just another AoS/ Hero Wars clone). Eul is the original creator meanwhile Guinsoo started Dota Allstars. The version you play has gone through serious overhauls thanks to Ice Frog who is currently the one maintaining it. With that in mind would it be so bad to view HoN as yet another incarnation? Or am I not getting why you think this is disgusting?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on August 31, 2009, 09:04:48 am
my name is dhakkel btw, but idk how much ill be playing. im gonna try again now, but if i still cant get last hitting down im probably gonna quit.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bonzi_buddy on August 31, 2009, 09:17:55 am
Quote from: KBJGXLM on August 31, 2009, 07:18:46 am
Is it really? The basis of the Dota you are familiar with is not the original and even then creative control of that particular incarnation has changed hands since it's own creation (not that Dota is all that original, it started as just another AoS/ Hero Wars clone). Eul is the original creator meanwhile Guinsoo started Dota Allstars. The version you play has gone through serious overhauls thanks to Ice Frog who is currently the one maintaining it. With that in mind would it be so bad to view HoN as yet another incarnation? Or am I not getting why you think this is disgusting?
it kind of is yeah. let's just say that it has to do with the minimal creative direction this company has right now - the heroes are different, yes, and there will propably be more maps (at least they TRY to get people play other maps/modes but welp since it's DOTA FANBASE shrug) but it's still kind of disgusting since it's about miming the original game's motor, gameplay and premise the best they can. Demigod tried to do something new about this or at least RESHAPE/make a completely new game around the premise even though they weren't so succesful! it doesn't help that the first map is COMPLETELY remade to the game up to most minor details (why not even change the environment, that's like the easiest thing to do on the design side!)


however i don't feel like arguing about this since i suspect nobody (you or me or anybody else) will agree on anything so it's kind of useless.

READ i don't want to argue since you are a hc fan/player and obviously like it so we won't propably find any agreeament!! :fogetangry: :fogetangry:

Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bonzi_buddy on August 31, 2009, 09:22:21 am
also i think this is like the company's LAST CARD or something to save them from bankrupty so there's a huge difference between a modified mod/map and a game that tries it's best to please a certain userbase in many ways to sell well!! and we aren't talking about fans of the mod's creator or anything IT'S AN OPPOSITE COMPANY.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on August 31, 2009, 05:20:54 pm
OPINIONS.... FEH

I could never get used to their vertical map but the two lane one with a single layer of towers per base is actually very good. I just hope they switch up the terrain because I'm tired of seeing evil trees everywhere. I see what you're saying though. The problem with me is that I'm not trying to view this as a new game or S2 as an opposing company. To me this is the natural progression for Dota made by Dota fans... who happen to be S2 in this case. Dota is to HoN what Narbacular Drop and Left 4 Dead (turtle rock) was to Portal and Left 4 Dead (valve). I see no distinction between the developmental processes of either of these games other than S2 not having to buy Dota off from Eul, Guinsoo, or Icefrog.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 03, 2009, 07:13:01 am
The NDA is now gone btw.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on September 03, 2009, 11:26:05 am
That's what's up, so we can finally post videos and screenshots and shit?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 03, 2009, 03:56:42 pm
Yes. Midgame, when they announced the lifting of the NDA in a game-wide message they basically told you to post screenshots and videos. They also said beta is definitely not over yet and they don't have a set date... that they want to balance and add more heroes first. They also said that there will be an open beta period before beta is over~
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 03, 2009, 04:55:33 pm
Well there's still like 8 or so empty hero spots in the roster so I figure those are going to be filled at least before the game is out.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 04, 2009, 02:20:50 am
I just got sent a beta key for this from my brother since he got one because he preordered Savage 2 back in the day, so I'll download this and see what all the buzz is about.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: wilikeh on September 04, 2009, 12:00:36 pm
what are these "improvements"?

i keep hearing people discuss improvements, but i don't read any/ I understand they recreated the engine and the general interface for finding games and starting games might be easier.... but... what gameplay improvements have been introduced?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: cowardknower on September 04, 2009, 03:27:35 pm
The hero picking is new.  Sorta.  The shops have a more organized interface.  I'd assume some balance tweaking has been done.

IDK really.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 04, 2009, 05:17:14 pm
Quote from: wilikeh on September 04, 2009, 12:00:36 pm
what are these "improvements"?

i keep hearing people discuss improvements, but i don't read any/ I understand they recreated the engine and the general interface for finding games and starting games might be easier.... but... what gameplay improvements have been introduced?

Most of the improvements are internal. There are some cosmetic improvements but that's up to opinion. It's all relatively the same as Dota. Still... although it may seem like a recreation it actually plays much better than WC3 ever could and even more so in Dota's case since the coding for the skills and items are clean and direct instead of using the crazy workarounds that they use in Dota that causes choppyness and lag at times (play any DM game in dota for the most dramatic effect). It also handles latency and lag much differently. In a normal situation there is no delay for me even though the ms averages out to 90-180 (which you would see in the games list and then in real time in the lobby before the game starts). Should someone else lag the only indicator I would get is them saying so. If they drop... oh well. We can vote for a rematch or concession. Or we can continue playing and wait for them to reconnect. There is a five minute downtime window before the player is officially kicked and that's plenty of time. A normal player would try to get back in as fast as they can because they do not want a leave on their record (as well as kills, deaths, assists, average creep scores, denies, exp per minute, etc). More improvements include the ability to queue skills and commands (which is why they added a cast speed stat to each hero.. to give small windows for response). You can also rebind your keys and use an ingame voice chat... which is a nice addition to the ui. It is very familiar territory when playing HoN but once you play a few games you will find WC3 inferior in almost every way once you go back.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: im9today on September 04, 2009, 06:04:35 pm
is anyone else in the League of Legends beta?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 06:11:43 pm
i'm finally getting around to playing this. anyone wanna play a game tonight? my username is Ryan_
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 06:22:37 pm
ALSO how many of you guys are preordering the game?

and could anyone gimme a list of the DotA -> HoN hero counterparts? some are pretty obvious, like keeper of the forest and rooftrellen
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 04, 2009, 06:22:57 pm
i suggest coming onto irc and spamming the people who have the game, like me and leafo and grim.

maybe not leafo, i dont think he's playing anymore... too retard..
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 06:24:25 pm
okay soon as iget off work. how many gwers are playing?

i'm gonna play my first few HoN games tonight when i get off work but since i'm pretty decent at DotA (relatively speaking) how hard is the transition?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 04, 2009, 06:30:27 pm
ive only played with grim and leafo so far.

and i have no idea on the dota question as i played dota like twice and am terrible at hon 8)
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 04, 2009, 06:33:32 pm
Quote from: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 06:24:25 pm
okay soon as iget off work. how many gwers are playing?

i'm gonna play my first few HoN games tonight when i get off work but since i'm pretty decent at DotA (relatively speaking) how hard is the transition?

The first few to ten games are pretty hard since the graphics are more detailed and the effects more flashy. It takes a few games to get used to the shop system too but once you learn it it's way better than DotA's.

I'd recommend turning off Post-processing and Foliage from the Graphics Settings to keep things cleaner until you get used to the models and such. You also should click the dual-coloured orb on the top-left corner of the mini map for team colouring.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 04, 2009, 08:06:46 pm
Quote from: im9today on September 04, 2009, 06:04:35 pm
is anyone else in the League of Legends beta?
Well I got an invite today, downloading it as we speak.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: dragonx on September 04, 2009, 08:07:14 pm
Quote from: im9today on September 04, 2009, 06:04:35 pm
is anyone else in the League of Legends beta?

I am, its pretty gross
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 04, 2009, 08:20:54 pm
Quote from: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 06:22:37 pm
ALSO how many of you guys are preordering the game?

and could anyone gimme a list of the DotA -> HoN hero counterparts? some are pretty obvious, like keeper of the forest and rooftrellen

I found this on my harddrive after I made it out of boredom while waiting for someone to arrive. Grammar and diction be lackin cuz but you will get the idea.

Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on September 04, 2009, 10:35:27 pm
okay anyone wanna play a game? i don't wanna play my first hon game by myself.. .
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on September 04, 2009, 10:45:40 pm
Quote from: dragonx on September 04, 2009, 08:07:14 pm
I am, its pretty gross

LoL is pretty good, definitely more beginner friendly than dota (theres no denies for instance) And less stuns and things of the like. The only problem I have with it is the stupid summoner system, it feels pointless and tacked on.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: im9today on September 05, 2009, 01:45:19 am
sorry for the semihijack but my LoL id is dongbeard if anyone wants to group up sometime
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 05, 2009, 10:03:29 pm
Well, I tried my first practice game against myself and I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing.. it's like an RTS melded with an MMO... I had no idea how to use skills or anything. Is there a manual online anywhere? It seems like this game is geared for people who have already played dota.. as someone how hasn't and doesn't even understand the gameplay I'm very lost!
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Vesper on September 05, 2009, 11:58:52 pm
it is faster more responsive and things like that. the engine is made for dota and not rts gamez (like wc3 is).
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on September 06, 2009, 12:40:22 am
Mateui add some people from here to your friends list so we can get some games going. Practice is kind of useless since you don't fight any other heroes (there is no hero AI atm) or have any on your team. But you can spawn a shit load of creeps and the like in practice mode its pretty cool.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: im9today on September 06, 2009, 07:44:38 am
By the way, if anyone else needs a HoN key I still have an extra one, and if anyone has an extra LoL key I could use it for a friend of mine.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 07, 2009, 11:23:53 pm
If anyone is up for teaching me how to play this game I'd appreciate it. I tried playing in a noobs only game only to have people kick me out of the game because I didn't know what I was doing. Talk about a good first experience.  :welp:
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on September 08, 2009, 12:56:23 am
mateui do you log on irc thats usually how we get games going.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: bonzi_buddy on September 08, 2009, 09:44:19 am
Quote from: Mateui on September 07, 2009, 11:23:53 pm
If anyone is up for teaching me how to play this game I'd appreciate it. I tried playing in a noobs only game only to have people kick me out of the game because I didn't know what I was doing. Talk about a good first experience.  :welp:
i thought it was hilarious when i made mistakes in one noob game and somebody called me a "noob".
Mateui, don't play alone! the game has a big beginner treshold so definitely play your games with GW guys.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 08, 2009, 02:03:59 pm
I think I got a PM from someone here who wanted me to play with them and Jester, but being the noob that I am, had no idea how to respond back, as I was in the middle of a practice game against my brother. I'll log onto IRC at some point today and see if I can play with anyone here. Anyone have any recommendations as to an easy Hero to pick to learn the game with?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 08, 2009, 02:59:29 pm
Pyromancer is an excellent beginner's hero. Easy to understand and always effective. Jereziah is also pretty good since he's got plenty of survivability abilities and being a strength hero it's easy to get the proper stats without sacrificing survivability.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 08, 2009, 03:07:05 pm
If you want to expose yourself to less risk and go to the woods to grind all your gear then I suggest Tempest who can do it at level 1 no prob, or Zephyr, Legionnaire and Warbeast who need a few levels before they can breeze through the woods.

Jungle creeps spawn at every full minute, just something you want to know, and you can spawn multiple creep camps by pulling the creeps a bit out of the camp so that the game thinks the camp is empty and spawns a new set.


If you like to stay on lane and an easy hero to do so then I recommend someone who is ranged. I would recommend Wretched Hag because she is ranged and can blink away if trouble comes near but the problem is that she blows in every way possible. But for learning purposes it probably is a pretty safe hero.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 08, 2009, 06:45:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtG8W25Q7E

I found this basic tutorial video which explains the game pretty well, I guess, so if you are new then maybe check it out.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 08, 2009, 06:48:21 pm
You can also refer to dota tutorials for basic item and general play strategies. Although item names will differ in HoN item modifiers and prices remain the same (items being very important to the two games).
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 08, 2009, 06:52:50 pm
I totally friggin suggest Electrician or whatever he's called as a noob hero. I kicked ass with him and I'm terrible.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 08, 2009, 06:58:06 pm
Yeah, I've watched a few videos and read some guides but most of them assume you've played dota and know what they are talking about. Terms like ganking and laning and pushing are being thrown around, and I still don't quite understand what they mean. I take it that the game's strategy involves every hero taking a different lane and then farming creeps to gain experience and gold.. but I don't really understand when you're supposed to go and try to win the game.. Are you supposed to slowly take down every enemy tower during the game, or simply focus on one lane? That's what I don't get. To me, it seems like if everyone just rushed one lane and overtook it they could quickly win the game, but this is clearly not the case in this game and people frown upon this.. Nothing seems logical to me about this whole game (maybe because I'm treating this like it's an RTS but it's not), but I want to learn! Maybe just playing it with some of you will help, learning it by actually doing and imitating someone who knows what is going on.  :)

I'm also up to playing a game now if anyone wants to play and help me learn the ropes. Oh, and a the shear amount of items is overwhelming. I really don't know what to buy any of the time, so some pointers in that regard would be helpful as well. I understand that it's very character-specific, but right now I'm getting accustomed to playing as Glacius.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 08, 2009, 07:05:31 pm
A team wins when the opposing team's central structure (just next to the fountain/tar pit) is destroyed. You usually destroy all towers leading up to it, too, so creeps can get through.

You can't just rush one lane, because the opposing team + towers + creeps will kill you, and while you are all respawning the enemy will be playing properly and levelling up, and the stronger team wins eventually. It's all about slowly grinding your enemies down and letting them make mistakes.

Death is a big deal because not only do you lose gold and the enemy gain it, you lose time to level up, and once your enemey gets a 4ish level barrier over you you are pretty much fucked.

I'd really try to get on IRC and highlight me and grim and maybe ryan etc, se we can show you.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 08, 2009, 07:13:44 pm
I see... Well, I'm on IRC right now. If anyone is interested just message me. (It doesn't seem like anyone is currently active in the netplay channel).

What are you names ingame so that I can add you to my friends list?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 08, 2009, 08:29:57 pm
Most of us are on the first post of this topic.

And come into #gamingw and shout for me or grim or someone, that's the best way to do it.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 08, 2009, 08:49:06 pm
Alright, well I've added everyone from the first post of this topic to my buddy list. If anyone wants to add me I go by the name of Mateui in game :)
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 08, 2009, 10:42:04 pm
Quote from: Mateui on September 08, 2009, 06:58:06 pm
Yeah, I've watched a few videos and read some guides but most of them assume you've played dota and know what they are talking about. Terms like ganking and laning and pushing are being thrown around, and I still don't quite understand what they mean. I take it that the game's strategy involves every hero taking a different lane and then farming creeps to gain experience and gold.. but I don't really understand when you're supposed to go and try to win the game.. Are you supposed to slowly take down every enemy tower during the game, or simply focus on one lane? That's what I don't get. To me, it seems like if everyone just rushed one lane and overtook it they could quickly win the game, but this is clearly not the case in this game and people frown upon this.. Nothing seems logical to me about this whole game (maybe because I'm treating this like it's an RTS but it's not), but I want to learn! Maybe just playing it with some of you will help, learning it by actually doing and imitating someone who knows what is going on.  :)

I'm also up to playing a game now if anyone wants to play and help me learn the ropes. Oh, and a the shear amount of items is overwhelming. I really don't know what to buy any of the time, so some pointers in that regard would be helpful as well. I understand that it's very character-specific, but right now I'm getting accustomed to playing as Glacius.

Ill try to get most of the terms out of the way. Grammar and clarity possibly lacking due to a lack of interest in consciousness at the moment.

Ganking is when two or more of you go after one or more of them.

Laning is when you are holding a specific lane.

Pushing is when you are attempting to destroy the tower of a given lane.

Creeps are any non-controllable units. They usually refer to neutral enemy spawns found in the forrest areas but the term is also used for enemy waves.

DoT is Damage Over Time. Think 'poison' instead of direct damage.

AoEis Area of Effect. Alternate terms are splashing or cleaving (for a specific ability given by a passive skill or weapon). AoE refers to anything that hits multiple targets.

Denying is when you kill an allied unit by getting the last hit. For creeps they need to be below 50% hp before you are able to attack them. I think Buildings and Herores have a 15% hp requirement... I'm not too sure. To deny a hero they must have a Dot on them though you can also deny them with the Blood Rage/ Rage!!! (Strygwyr/Blood Hunter) and Nightmare/ Succubus' Charm (Atropos/ Succubus) without the 15% hp or Dot requirement... though killing an ally this way is usually a dick move and should only be used if an enemy is close to killing them.

Auto-attack can mean one of two things. Most of the teams it means the act of mindlessly pushing a lane which may not be beneficial at the time. It can also refer to the use of an auto-attacking/ casting skill.

Raxing is when you aim to destroy enemy barracks.

Enemy barracks are the two buildings that spawn the allied unit waves behind the final tower of the given lane. Because melee barracks spawns four more units than the ranged barracks at any given moment it is most important to destroy this one first to break a lane. The only exception is when the majority of the allied units are attacking the ranged barracks since it's best to support them while they mow a lane down if you have the choice.

The team colors are Blue: Blue (and sometimes referred to as 'Host'), Teal: Teal, Orange: Oj, Purple: purp, and Yellow: Yell for Sentinal: Legion and Grey:Grey, Light Blue: LB, Dark Green: DG, Pink: Pink, and Brown: Brown for Scourge: Hellbourne.

Ping can either refer to latency or the action of ctrl+clicking an area on the minimap or screen. When you ping a sound is played and a location is highlighted on the minimap to the rest of the team. The nature of the ping changes depending on situation and location. It can mean check the rune spawn, check roshan/ kongor, meet here, take this path, or avoid there. It's also used to coordinate flanking maneuvers and ganks.

Runes refer to Power Ups. The current runes spawn every two minutes at one of the spawn points that change from map to map. In the standard map they are either in the 1/4 mark (north rune) or the 3/4 mark (south rune) of the river that runs through the middle of the map. In the two lane map it spawns at one of the icons near the middle of the screen. The temporary powerups are Haste (max run speed), Double Damage (2x base damage bonus), Regeneration (massive hp/mp regeneration until you are hit or the time limit runs out), Invisibility (invisibility), and Illusion (two illusions ). Illusions are clones of your hero that look like your hero but are unable to cast spells or use item abilities. The can give off auras and use passive abilities and orbs but it depends on what. Example: An illusion retains Radience's 35 damage/ second aura and mana-burning orb but it will not land a bash.

Orb/ Buff placers are modifiers to your attack while Aura refers to any ability that are passed on to the applicable units. There are issues with stacking so you have to refer to one of the various spread sheets to find out what skills, item abilities and whatnot stacks with what. Also know that they stack differently between Dota and HoN. Orbs/ Buff placers modify your attacks exclusively (drain, mana burn, maim, slow, etc) while auras can modify your attacks, damage, defense, regeneration abilities, movement speed, and etc. Some orbs/ buff placers may stack with auto-attack skills (like Searing Arrows or Web Shot) but you must consult the spread sheet to see how to make them work. Some can stack if you initate the hotkey and break if you set it to auto while others can only stack if you place certain items in certain orders of heirarchy in your inventory slots.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7279/runetk.jpg)
Runes on the original map spawn directly on the river. Runes in the two lane map spawn near the center and they spawn right on top of the "left" and "right" symbols.

Bottling usually refers to filling up a bottle with a rune though it may also be used to mean that you are going back to the base to refill your bottle.... Bottles themselves being neat healing items that you can use over and over again though are limited to holding 3 charges at a time. A bottle must be empty to refill it with a rune and in Dota you can't hold a bottled rune for over two minutes without it auto casting. In hon you can hold them indefinitely.

First Blood or FB is when you are the first person to kill a hero in that game. It gives a +200 gold bonus.

Roshing, Rosh, Roshan, Kong, and Kongor All refer to the 'raid boss' neutral spawn usually found at the center of a map. There is another of these bosses in the vertical map but noone plays that one so I don't know what it is (or where it's rune spawns for that matter). They spawn at the begining of the game and then once again every ten minutes after they are killed, each time increasing in power. They award +200-300 gold to the person who gets the last hit, +200 gold to each teammate, and item drops. The first and second kill awards you with an Aegis/ Token of Life. If the item is in your inventory when you die you are immediately resurrected in place with full hp and mana. For the third kill and every kill after you get cheese (and it's equivalent item) in Hon. It heals 1000hp/1000hp once eaten or can be sold at a shop for 500 gold. All you need to get is the last hit to get the gold for yourself and your team.. and regardless of who kills the boss you can pick the items up yourself as long as you are in range to do so. There have been many times where someone has watched enemies do rosh/etc while invisible only to sneak a last hit and take the drops. This usually destroys enemy team moral... in Dota resulting in 1-5 rage quits within seconds.

Global refers to any skill that hits all of the appropriate units on the map without the need for targetting. It can be anything from damage (Zeus/Thunderbringer), a heal (Chen/Ophelia), a disable ( Darkness or Silence), or the spawning of of a temporary illusion (Spectre). Some global skills reveal all enemy locations on the map and may be used as a method of scouting, though usually these skills are reserved for team fights or getting the last hit.

Blink Dagger, Dagger/Portal Key/Key refers to the 2100 gold item that grants the blink skill.

CD/ Cooldown means a skill was not available when needed while "CD xxx sec" refers to the amount of time left for skills with longer cooldowns to become available again.

Sheeper, Hexer, Sheep stick, Scythe refers to the item that disables an enemy for a limited amount of time.

If I missed any feel free to post them. I spent too much time on this thread.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: pig style on September 08, 2009, 11:44:26 pm
I'm up for some games in a lil while if anyone is down.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 12, 2009, 04:32:00 am
New update with quite a bit of changes.

Yay, Nymphora got a new skill and her pointless skill got reworked completely. I'm happy.

Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jester on September 12, 2009, 10:06:25 am
noooooo
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 12, 2009, 09:42:20 pm
i want to play this game. i want to play it!!
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: wilikeh on September 13, 2009, 12:21:46 am
Quote
More improvements include the ability to queue skills and commands (which is why they added a cast speed stat to each hero.. to give small windows for response). You can also rebind your keys and use an ingame voice chat... which is a nice addition to the ui. It is very familiar territory when playing HoN but once you play a few games you will find WC3 inferior in almost every way once you go back.

So you can queue skills and commands, like a MMORPG? Dunno how I'd feel about that....

Gonna give it a try though, got a beta key.


I still like WC3, still play it regularly. This'll be interesting.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Jonathan_CT12 on September 13, 2009, 03:54:13 pm
There has always been a way to queue skills and commands in DotA, although it wasn't viable for all heroes because of the massive differences between animations.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Eltee on September 13, 2009, 11:29:40 pm
I encourage newcomers who feel fairly interested in the game, or are just curious about it, to try it out(aka ask around for invites, I got some myself)

I'd never played or seen dota in any shape or form before this (except seeing a guy play Demigod once which is apparently a dota clone???) and I have to say I do like this game quite a bit
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 14, 2009, 12:00:32 am
Quote from: Mr. L on September 13, 2009, 11:29:40 pm
I encourage newcomers who feel fairly interested in the game, or are just curious about it, to try it out(aka ask around for invites, I got some myself)

I'd never played or seen dota in any shape or form before this (except seeing a guy play Demigod once which is apparently a dota clone???) and I have to say I do like this game quite a bit
Me too. Initially I was put off that it wasn't an RTS and the game seemed kind of repetitive, but there is a lot in here that you need to discover for yourself by playing over and over again. Plus, with so many characters it'll take you a while to find the one that suits your playing style.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 20, 2009, 03:26:05 am
Is anyone else interested in getting into the beta for this? I've got some invites.

I've realized that I'm such a support character, which given my personality, is not that shocking.  :laugh: I love sitting back during team fights and replenishing my team's health and mana. I also like teleporting people away to safety once I get the Staff of Master with Nymphora. Farming is pretty easy with her as well, a single lvl 4 Volatile Pod clears the whole enemy group of creep netting you tons of cash. She's an amazing pusher because of this..  The only downside is how squishy she is, which means you always have to be extra careful for ganks.

I also like how undervalued she is in pub games. I've never seen anyone else play as her which is shocking to me. (Well, maybe her high-pitched voice turns people off).
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 21, 2009, 03:30:03 am
man i'd like an invite.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: dragonx on September 21, 2009, 03:32:02 am
did they put the phantom lancer in HoN yet????
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 21, 2009, 03:38:56 am
Quote from: Gabriel on September 21, 2009, 03:30:03 am
man i'd like an invite.
Gabriel, PM me your e-mail and I'll send you one.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 21, 2009, 10:59:20 am
Quote from: dragonx on September 21, 2009, 03:32:02 am
did they put the phantom lancer in HoN yet????
No and I hope they don't and instead make something original for the remaining 10 (?) unannounced spots in the roster.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 21, 2009, 08:00:15 pm
It looks like we got plenty of HoN players around here now so I think it's time for GW in-house games! I pre-ordered so I should be able to do some invites (I think) should someone need an account.

Anyone got any good time recommendations? Or just check this thread: http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=80053.0
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 21, 2009, 08:34:08 pm
Quote from: Supra Mairo on September 21, 2009, 10:59:20 am
No and I hope they don't and instead make something original for the remaining 10 (?) unannounced spots in the roster.
I heard that some of these slots will go to characters who have not been yet ported from Savage 2, so characters like Builder and Summoner should make an appearance.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Dead Phoenix on September 21, 2009, 09:39:49 pm
Anyone got an extra invite i for me?  Kinda wanna try this game out...
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 21, 2009, 09:54:31 pm
Just send me an email address in PM if you want an invite. :)
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: dragonx on September 22, 2009, 01:57:30 am
Quote from: Supra Mairo on September 21, 2009, 10:59:20 am
No and I hope they don't and instead make something original for the remaining 10 (?) unannounced spots in the roster.

but he was my dota main :'(
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 22, 2009, 07:57:06 am
I hate PL. He's just an annoying little shit.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 22, 2009, 02:29:43 pm
What kind of regen/tank gear do you guys get now that heart is bonkers and bloodstone doesn't cut it?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 22, 2009, 04:20:41 pm
Quote from: Supra Mairo on September 22, 2009, 02:29:43 pm
What kind of regen/tank gear do you guys get now that heart is bonkers and bloodstone doesn't cut it?

Behemoth's Heart or Sacrificial Stone. Just because they got changed from overpowered to balanced doesn't make them useless. Heart still gives a mountain of health and bloodstone is easier to get charges with.

As for actual tank gear Shaman's Headdress is almost always must and Helm of the Black Legion is great against physical damage heavy opponents. Shrunken Head is also good if you're the initiator kind of a tank. Of course if you're playing a tank you also get some 2 or 3 Fortified Bracelets at the start along with the new awesome Steamboots. If you are serious about tanking you will want Mock of Brilliance asap to have that threatening presence in the battlefield.

For regeneration, Sustainer is a no-brainer and you can use it to great a Runed Axe for some damage and farming power. Nullstone is also great continuation from Sustainer since it gives a great boost to stats. If you really want some "regen" you should get some life stealing item like Symbol of Rage (another nice health boost) and maybe an Abyssal Skull as it stacks with Symbol of Rage.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 22, 2009, 05:13:43 pm
this game is so hard. i totally don't understand what to do. i played until like 2am (btw this game sucks away time like the bermuda triangle), and i did start getting the hang of it, but I cant find anything on how the game is supposed to be played. i read a couple things on like ehow.com and shit, and they helped, but man I really don't know what to do. I did ok on my last game, leveling up equally with my team, i was doing good. once the opposing heroes started pushing i kinda got screwed up then fell way behind.

i played as magmus a few times and i like him because he's sort of easy. once i got the items to speed up his walking and attack he was decent. i really wish there was a single player mode or something. it's so fucking hard!

but man is it fun. i love this game.  i think i will preorder it, because it's really great, but i hope there's some sort of single player mode or something.

also are there any guides anywhere on how to play and how the heroes work and stuff? and what items to buy when and stuff?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 22, 2009, 05:23:08 pm
Iirc, sacrificial charges don't give any additional regen anymore, Verne.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 22, 2009, 05:39:46 pm
Quote from: Gabriel on September 22, 2009, 05:13:43 pm
Stuff

You can create a new game and make the server type "Practice" to play alone. There won't be any enemy hero AI but you can spawn different mobs and heroes on either side anytime you want, or give yourself shitloads of gold or experience.

edit: oh didn't notice Sacrificial Stone doesn't give extra health regen anymore. Well, it would have been so op if it did with the new changes. I also forgot the new barrier idol which is amazing continuation for shaman's headdress; 10 magic armor and 10 health regen.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 22, 2009, 06:12:13 pm
Quote from: Gabriel on September 22, 2009, 05:13:43 pm

i played as magmus a few times and i like him because he's sort of easy. once i got the items to speed up his walking and attack he was decent. i really wish there was a single player mode or something. it's so fucking hard!

Search for general Dota guides. Although the names and keys are different the playstyles are exactly the same. Even for basic hero types so don't be afraid to look over dota specific hero guides. As for single player you need to select 'practice' on the server select list when creating a game. It will let you play an unranked 1v0 game and give you the test buttons.

Go here for the practice mode guide.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=18176

It gives you access to every thing you need to test heroes, items, and builds all at the click of a button. All it needs now is multiplayer practice mode so players can teach others ingame.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 22, 2009, 06:34:17 pm
cool, you know i looked around for the forum but I couldn't find it before. I was reading general DotA stuff and that at least helped me understand how you are supposed to play, such as hanging with a teammate, killing creeps to level, etc. The community is one of those that just complains about how much you might suck (despite being on a noob server) and never actually help you out at all.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 22, 2009, 06:39:19 pm
Yep. It's still easier to learn how to play HoN though because in WC3 there are banlists, custom game kickers, and rage quitters and people NEVER want to play with a new players so those games almost always end early.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: wooha on September 22, 2009, 06:45:07 pm
unfortunately the only way to get good is just by playing a lot. the better you get at the game the more enjoyable it gets. i'd read some guides and just try and get as familiar as you can with what each hero does and what items work with what heroes.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 22, 2009, 06:46:57 pm
Quote from: Gabriel on September 22, 2009, 05:13:43 pm
also are there any guides anywhere on how to play and how the heroes work and stuff? and what items to buy when and stuff?

Here's a pretty good youtube video on the basics of gameplay:

There are also plenty of Hero-specific guides on the beta forum. Unfortunately I couldn't find a complete guide for Magmus there.. but I did find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRtMdPWvP8A&feature=related

And here's a video on laning:
I don't think the video says it, but to target your own creep or towers, you hit A and then select the creep you want to attack.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 22, 2009, 07:26:01 pm
yeah i just watched those videos, they are very good. I am understanding the basics now, I just need practice with heroes. So far I like ranged chars more. I played the moon queen and she was pretty fun. Valkyrie looked cool, too.

Also, I hate using the mouse to move the camera, so I've been using the arrow keys to move the camera, but I have to either get used to the mouse or remap some keys, so I can use hotkeys. I'm thinking of remapping the camera stuff to wasd, and using 1-4 for the hero abilities. Also I found out H is hold, which will stop your guy from attacking.

It seems like melee characters would be harder to get last-hits with, because they have to move to get close to the creep. This game is so much fun, i love it. I can't wait to get good at it.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 22, 2009, 07:34:31 pm
I'm not too fond of the way AI treats Hold. I would get used to using Stop instead if I where you.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 22, 2009, 07:35:34 pm
Quote from: Gabriel on September 22, 2009, 07:26:01 pm
It seems like melee characters would be harder to get last-hits with, because they have to move to get close to the creep. This game is so much fun, i love it. I can't wait to get good at it.
Yeah, pretty much. That's why in the beginning of the game a melee character should lane with a ranged hero in the top and bottom lane. The mid lane is almost always a lone ranged hero. When you're laning with a melee partner, it's a good idea to feed them last hits. Instead of auto-attacking the enemy creep, you need to time it so that you hit the creep so that the melee character can then do a final strike on it to get the extra money and exp. As a ranged hero you'll also be doing a lot of denying and sometimes aggresively attacking enemy heros (especially melee ones from a distance) to drive them back.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 23, 2009, 05:57:02 am
holy shit i finally won a game and i didnt do horrible. i only had like 5 HKs (lmao) but i actually helped out and did well. im finally getting the hang of laning and the phases and stuff. i played as magmus. I really like him because i know the items for him and everything really well. they all told me to pick him too so i kinda lucked out. i played a few games earlier as pharaoh and that's a cool hero. but anyways yeah finally won a game!

oh by the way how do you sell or destroy items?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 23, 2009, 07:53:25 am
Quote from: Gabriel on September 23, 2009, 05:57:02 am
oh by the way how do you sell or destroy items?

Right-click the item to pick it up and drop it on the ground, ally (trade) or shop (to get cash back). You can also throw recipe items back on your stash and click it (left click) to disassemble it.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 23, 2009, 11:09:58 am
Quote from: Gabriel on September 23, 2009, 05:57:02 am
oh by the way how do you sell or destroy items?
When you're near a shop, a little signpost should pop up right above your item slots. If you right-click drag an item onto this signpost you'll sell it and receive a portion of its cost back.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: yugi on September 23, 2009, 09:45:22 pm
Not played since just after Magmar or whatever his name was added.
Is the game still as horribly balanced as it use to be, or is it better now? Also does GW have any sort of clan, or place to meet up?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on September 23, 2009, 10:05:48 pm
Quote from: yugi on September 23, 2009, 09:45:22 pm
Not played since just after Magmar or whatever his name was added.
Is the game still as horribly balanced as it use to be, or is it better now? Also does GW have any sort of clan, or place to meet up?
I can't answer your first question, but I can answer the second one. We don't have a clan right now, because I believe it requires 5 of us to be online at the same time to start it... Checking out #netplay on our IRC network would be your best bet. Otherwise, just load the game and see if other GWers are online. That's how I get playing games with some GWers.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: wooha on September 24, 2009, 12:11:40 am
#hon is the heroes of newerth chan
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on September 24, 2009, 06:01:15 am
Quote from: yugi on September 23, 2009, 09:45:22 pm
Not played since just after Magmar or whatever his name was added.
Is the game still as horribly balanced as it use to be, or is it better now? Also does GW have any sort of clan, or place to meet up?
Well it is more balanced since Magmus was first introduced mainly because now the items are less ridiculous (heart and sacristone I'm looking at you) and there are new items like barrier idol which counter all the AoE ults pretty nicely.

The new item setup makes Zephyr into a regular tank instead of a megatank, you can actually kill Defiler before you die to her ridiculous ult and basically all the heroes go down faster.

Madman and Electrician are still really ludicrous, and the new Scout needs a lot of fine tuning. Arachna is still a certain death 1v1 past level 6.

Maybe this helps to see the current game balance.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Verne on September 24, 2009, 07:15:12 am
Well in DotA games the balance will never be fully balanced, mostly due to the amount of heroes and the fact the game can be decided in hero selection already. Most people don't realize that the hero selection is all about counter picking. If the enemy takes hero X you should try to take someone with abilities that counter hero X's abilities.

A good example is Arachna. She can pretty much kill anyone 1v1 but she gets absolutely trashed by Armadon.

There's also the whole metagame thing. Currently AoE disables rule the game for the most part. A team with Madman, Behemoth, Tempest, Pebbles and let's say Jeraziah would completely trash pretty much any other team, as long as the skill level is equal. The disable team could be even a little worse if the enemy team has small amount of disables.

The balance also constantly changes, mostly decided by what happens in competitive game, so people who play casually may be baffled by some changes.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 24, 2009, 09:02:04 pm
i played 2 random drafts. the first was an rdem by accident (im trying not to do easymode), i was Legionnaire. thats a cool class, but i dont like tanking much. three people dropped out and we were doing 2v5 for a while but eventually the game was over.

this last game i played as Accursed. it was really fun and we managed to win the game. once i realized i had a healing spell i started supportin like a mofo. it was pretty fun. we managed to win that game pretty quick (we were like lvls 10-14).

I still suck tho but im really getting the hang of laning. im getting better for sure. i still die too much tho. i played a private game with moon queen and that is a FUN and strong hero. thats a solo mid hero tho for sure.

also i've been using hero guides (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17) whenever i play, just get ideas of what items to get and what order to level my skills.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 24, 2009, 10:38:46 pm
If you can ignore the music I suggest you watch this video just to see how experienced players play their heroes. They pull off some pretty neat (and well timed) tricks and jukes. I know it's random but it gives you an idea as to how to play this game a little better. I know it's Dota and not HoN but most of the heroes/ abilities (and all of the items) used here are in HoN so it's still useful.

http://www.playdota.com/videos/464

The Axe juke and the way Earthshaker used line of sight and trees to fuck Rhasta over alone is enough to give you something to think about.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: goldenratio on September 26, 2009, 01:26:40 am
Does anybody have an extra beta key? I have a friend who would really like this game and I want to give him a key, but they havent given me any (it says I have 0/0 keys available) so if anybody has one I'd appreciate it! pm me and ill give you his email.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on September 30, 2009, 05:45:40 am
Ill be taking a week off of HoN to try League of Legends. I am sticking with Hon/Dota for sure... I just have to try LoL out.

I don't have enough experience with the game to dislike it just yet (Do you?!?). It did show promise but from the things I've seen so far it does seem like they dumbed down the gameplay to make it easier for new players to get into and although it provides a different experience I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It's not a direct clone so don't let the familiarities fool you. The numbers crunch differently so you have to reevaluate the usefulness of stat modifiers like crit, drain, and etc along with the order of skills you learn and their place on the field. There is also no denying (not even for towers) as well as a glorious lack of attributes (Str,Agi,Int) so stacking modifiers (damage+hp/regen,mp/regen, or attacks peed/armor with the same modifier) or sacrificing early skills for stats is something you can no longer rely on. Thankfully the champions are still divided in a familiar fashion. Although they have more archetypes for characters than simply str/agi/int, as far as stats are concerned the sub-classes are still divided by what you would expect str/agi/intcharacters to be.... IE Assasin, Fighter, Mage, Support, and Tank, as well as the hybrids.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on October 03, 2009, 04:59:11 am
New patch again! Tons of changes this time around. Scout got a little nerfed and Dark Lady finally got some improvements. Most notably, a new hero was added - Pandamonium. Looks fun to play. (Although he doesn't say anything right now).
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on October 03, 2009, 05:19:32 am
awesome! pandamonium is the new panda hero i take?
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on October 03, 2009, 01:34:54 pm
Looks like they made Steam Boots +5 all stats with a +5 toggle... which is better but still wouldn't bring me over to using it again without the ias even if it was +10 to all.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on October 03, 2009, 05:48:21 pm
TDL is pretty crazy good now and so is panda from what I can tell.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on October 03, 2009, 06:24:06 pm
the dark lady is my favorite hero, too. sweet.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on October 03, 2009, 07:09:28 pm
Quote from: Supra Mairo on October 03, 2009, 05:48:21 pm
TDL is pretty crazy good now and so is panda from what I can tell.

He's fun, that's for sure. It's hard to factor in how effective he is just yet but his pushes/ disables makes for some interesting crowd control.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on October 03, 2009, 07:36:38 pm
Quote from: KBJGXLM on October 03, 2009, 01:34:54 pm
Looks like they made Steam Boots +5 all stats with a +5 toggle... which is better but still wouldn't bring me over to using it again without the ias even if it was +10 to all.
I was using them for the awesome increase in INT they used to provide, but now I'm not so sure it's worth it..
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Vesper on October 12, 2009, 05:45:31 pm
yeah my computer is fixed so now i can play some of this.

so unused to this though :(​. dota so much easier
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: yugi on October 14, 2009, 06:39:38 pm
Wait... Someone explain the "pro gamer competitive tourneyfag" logic that is being used behind The Dark Lady being buffed?

Her Dark Blades ability is clearly nerfed. You can't even argue about this.
And her ult is also nerfed. Sure it has a shorter cooldown time (by what, 30s?), and a slightly lower mana cost. And in exchange it only effects a small area of the map?

Unless there is more changes to her than what is in the patch notes... How can she possibly be better when she got nerfed???
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on October 14, 2009, 07:02:03 pm
This is what they are talking about.

http://heroes-newerth.com/changelog

Quote
- Base strength increased from 18 to 22
- Base intelligence increased from 13 to 16, gain increased from 1.75 to 1.9
- Dark Blades cool down changed from 25 seconds to 26/22/18/14 seconds
- Mana cost of Charging Strikes set to 75 at all levels. Each consecutive attack while charging will deal 15% less damage, reduced from 25%
- Taint Soul slightly reworked:
* Mana cost reduced from 90/110/130/150 to 35/45/55/65
* Range increased from 1000 to 1200
* Damage reduced from 75/125/175/225 to 60/90/120/150
- Cover of Darkness
*Duration reduced from 6/9/12 to 4/6/8 seconds
*Movement speed slow changed from 5% to 5%/10%/15%
*Sight range set to 500 at all levels

What you currently see in the patch notes are a series of fixes and nerfs that where introduced about a week later.

Quote
Dark Lady
- Fixed Dark Blades silencing towers
- The silence from Dark Blades will no longer apply to Magic Immune units
- Dark Blades base damage increase set to +50/70/90/110% (from +70/90/110/130%)
- Cover of Darkness reworked:
* This spell now targets a position on the map, rather than being global
* Enemies in a 1000 radius will have Cover of Darkness applied to them (unlinked allied vision, reduced vision range)
* Vision restriction reduced to 400 (from 500)
* Cool down lowered to 120 seconds (from 150)
* Mana cost redcued to 50/100/150 (from 50/150/250)

Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Mateui on October 21, 2009, 07:54:24 pm
S2games is opening up the beta for anyone to join in for just 24 hours, so get an account while you can! You have to become a fan of HoN via Facebook in order to get in.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on October 26, 2009, 02:50:35 am
dang. pretty huge update. silencer and spiritbreaker ports. resetted stats. open beta now too
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Medieve on October 26, 2009, 03:14:21 am
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I cannot win pub games!
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on October 26, 2009, 08:38:42 am
Try to get people with clan tags on the opposing team and you will win for sure.

They all blow so bad.
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Ryan on October 26, 2009, 01:29:40 pm
Quote from: Medieve on October 26, 2009, 03:14:21 am
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I cannot win pub games!

heh not like you ever could. . .
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Medieve on October 30, 2009, 04:55:56 am
Quote from: Supra Mairo on October 26, 2009, 08:38:42 am
Try to get people with clan tags on the opposing team and you will win for sure.

They all blow so bad.

... I have a clan tag ;-;
Title: Heroes Of Newerth (dota clone)
Post by: Supra Mairo on October 30, 2009, 12:06:08 pm
I rest my case