Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: The One on October 20, 2009, 11:30:10 pm
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Hello and welcome to my rant.
I miss the old days. The days where I would browse three forums at a time, all of them having something to do with RPG Maker. And I don't mean RPG MAKER XP OR RPG MAKER VX, I mean good old Rm2k.
Alright you're probably gonna say 'lol rm2k is stupid and for kids' which probably it is, but it was so goddamn fun sharing our crappy rm2k games together. What is left of the RPG Maker community? All we got now is rmxp.org and rpgmaker.net where people just post their bullshit rpg maker xp games all using the same RTP. Seriously, Rm2k has been left to rot in the mud and now we have all these RMXP games. In some ways I hate Enterbrain for making RMXP. You thought your stupid little RMXP game with custom scriptz was good? Go play Final Fallacy or cRaZy_gUy's Journey (or hell even Barkley even if it's not Rm2k), bitch. Now those were good games for their time. Well maybe not good as in "wow this game has amazing features and is so innovative" but at least the humor was damn good. All you see these days is RMXP games pretending to be way more emo then they are, or RMXP games trying to be hilarious but not being able to bring over the message because of the stupid genericness of how it looks.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I miss the days where people were in excitement waiting for this game Super RTP Adventure or The Stupidest Game Ever or other games, and people actually liking them.
Oh well even though the Rm2k world has pretty much gone down the drain I guess it's not the end of the world.
Yet.
Ok that was my rant bye
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So you miss the days when we were all 11 and thought dumb things were HIGH QUALITY?
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So you miss the days when we were all 11 and thought dumb things were HIGH QUALITY?
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
Edit:
I should probably evaluate. Most of the shit here in the G&D section we've got no hope for. Not uh, my class anyways. I'm not sure exactly who else is in that class, but RM2K was pretty fun when we were young, but it's not the case anymore, and we don't have those magical goggles that makes everything seem awesome. I remember when I used to think the second Mortal Kombat movie was pretty FUCKING AWESOME. I uh, watched it this year and I couldn't manage the first quarter of it. And the whole time I was thinking, "What the fuck?" Yeah I was really really disappointed, that's happened a lot to me recently.
Before I start to ramble off topic though, all I gotta say is: You can't just expect people to make 'brilliance' or something. Kids out there want to make their little fantasy adventures and show everyone just how 'cool' it is so they can get a gold star. Don't take it so personally. And before you start getting all pissy, at least look in the mirror or at the past, I'm sure you'll find something that will make you say, "Fuck, I really regret that."
gigglesnort
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I don't get why games made with an outdated program are preferable to those made with an engine that's superior in every aspect.
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You know I don't really get it either. But those times were more fun then the current times. I guess one of the things could be that Rm2k was just that, a thing everyone toyed around with for fun. Everyone who started with it knew it was something to mess around with for fun, and not to create some super professional game.
Which is the focus of most RMXP games of today, to be as professional and realistic as possible. I guess the difference is in the old days we did it for the fun and for the hell of it, and nowadays people do it to make a good game that impresses people.
And the atmosphere. Yeah definitely the atmosphere. Was so good back in the day.
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no one cares. fuck rpgmaker. bring down the facken system!!!!!
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i too miss the days when i was a terrible 13 year old kid XD
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The One, my friend (she's 20) recently got an email from a Craigslist personal ad from a 50 year old man saying that she should not dismiss his reply as he's still 18 at heart, and will always be -- like Peter Pan. I'm sure he has a thing or two to share about the good ol' times of RPGmaker.
I can send him your e-mail if you'd like, just post it here. Or you can PM it to me, your privacy is secure with me. Don't worry, pal.
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You know I don't really get it either. But those times were more fun then the current times. I guess one of the things could be that Rm2k was just that, a thing everyone toyed around with for fun. Everyone who started with it knew it was something to mess around with for fun, and not to create some super professional game.
Which is the focus of most RMXP games of today, to be as professional and realistic as possible. I guess the difference is in the old days we did it for the fun and for the hell of it, and nowadays people do it to make a good game that impresses people.
And the atmosphere. Yeah definitely the atmosphere. Was so good back in the day.
it's because you were a child. we were all kiddos, this is why it was so great because we were children! remember being 9 years old? those times rocked! but it had nothing to do with rm2k or w/e, it had to do with you being a child
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Frankly I think if we were thrown into the good 'ol days it'd be absolutely terrible.
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it would definitely be terrible, because we aren't kids anymore. nostalgia does wonders for some things but this is not one of those things
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Really.
We grew up.
'nuff said.
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okay you guys are joking about it but you know you loved those days when you were in elementary school and everything was easy and you spent your breaks on the playfield trading pokemon cards.
when i was a kid i used to hate elementary school but it was actually pretty awesome. just play play play and have fun without worrying about anything else. instead of that we turn 18 and gotta get a crappy job working for stupid people who bitch at you all day to make a living.
see this is why there is no god cause if there was he would have made the world so that we would only have to play games all day and have fun
okay this is also because i'm feeling a bit high atm but there is reason to this. but its more of a 9/11 topic now so after everyone had their say i guess it can be locked or deleted.
moral of the topic: childhood is great
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I don't get why games made with an outdated program are preferable to those made with an engine that's superior in every aspect.
The program is only as good as the people who are making games. The people that use them haven't changed a bit. Nomothetically speaking that is.
There were things in rm2k3 that no one ever learned or moved onto xp without learning, essentially going back to step one. It's like when you first picked up rm2k and made a crappy game, only now the graphics are harder/more complicated to make. I never understood why people were going to make the switch (many haven't). And really, what can you make in xp that you can't in 2k3?
As for the whole golden age/nostalgia thing, I get it. I think it's funny that the reason people give is that we've all somehow (as a community) have grown up. If this is what you're telling me, then you're also saying there hasn't been a new cohort of game makers since 2000, am I getting this right? Or maybe the new cohort blows/you dont get their humor anymore?
And hey guys, it's only been a few years since 2k3 came out so lets not get ahead of ourselves with the whole need to look mature act we got goin on.
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okay you guys are joking about it but you know you loved those days when you were in elementary school and everything was easy and you spent your breaks on the playfield trading pokemon cards.
yes we did but we don't try to argue that people are wrong now for not liking things we liked when we are kids
ugh people like a new software why don't they like the software i liked as a kiddo?????!??!? they are heathens
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There were things in rm2k3 that no one ever learned or moved onto xp without learning, essentially going back to step one. It's like when you first picked up rm2k and made a crappy game, only now the graphics are harder/more complicated to make. I never understood why people were going to make the switch (many haven't). And really, what can you make in xp that you can't in 2k3?
That's like using a manual saw over a chainsaw to cut down a tree. Sure, the chainsaw is more complicated and you could do it with a manual saw, but the chainsaw is also far more powerful and can do the job better.
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The program is only as good as the people who are making games. The people that use them haven't changed a bit. Nomothetically speaking that is.
There were things in rm2k3 that no one ever learned or moved onto xp without learning, essentially going back to step one. It's like when you first picked up rm2k and made a crappy game, only now the graphics are harder/more complicated to make. I never understood why people were going to make the switch (many haven't). And really, what can you make in xp that you can't in 2k3?
As for the whole golden age/nostalgia thing, I get it. I think it's funny that the reason people give is that we've all somehow (as a community) have grown up. If this is what you're telling me, then you're also saying there hasn't been a new cohort of game makers since 2000, am I getting this right? Or maybe the new cohort blows/you dont get their humor anymore?
And hey guys, it's only been a few years since 2k3 came out so lets not get ahead of ourselves with the whole need to look mature act we got goin on.
(http://pub.gamingw.net/28906/donsig.png)
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Good rant imo. Rant on brother, rant on.
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Haha good one bub, I laughed. Maybe next time you can contribute something useful. But I guess I should remove that sig since it's old.
@ bick, I get what you're saying, so if you aren't coordinated when trying to cut a tree down, you can risk serious bodily injury with the chainsaw but with the manual saw you'll be just fine. Right?
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Doug was a good show when i was a kid, and it still is. heh, try to come back from that.
[req] doug chiposets
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Well, low-level amateur toolkit game development barely hold any significance anymore now that indie gaming is bigger than ever. For an indie game to be recognized it either has to be really good or have an interesting gameplay mechanic. There's not much more you can do except become more dedicated to game development I guess.
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Doug was a good show when i was a kid, and it still is. heh, try to come back from that.
the difference is that doug is a legitimately good show whereas rm2k is just some piece of software people mostly (not always just A LOT) use to make really terrible games, and we thought they were a lot better when we were 11 than we do now
there are some things that stay good as you age and there are some that don't
also what drule said, it's basically that the novelty of making a game isn't like it used to be, it used to be that not a lot of people were making their own games so they seemed to be a lot more interesting but nowadays way more people are into gamemaking and that means we're getting better products meaning the old shit isn't as impressive as it used to look
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i miss the days when i could poop my pants and my parents wouldn't yell at me for doing it .
those days came back when i went to college
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i miss the days when i could poop my pants and my parents wouldn't yell at me for doing it .
those days came back when i went to college
It took 19292 tries, but you finally did it! :fogetbackflip:
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Made a good post.
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Actually I remember being really surprised like 10,000 posts ago when you made a good post.
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the older i get ,the more lonely i feel .i always look back ,so precious the memory is !!!so happy everyday.
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Vellfare i don't know if you're being completely serious or not but you are being pretty closed minded.. all he's saying is he's having a bit of nostalgia of the old days and thought those days were fun. I would kind of agree but wouldn't really want things to be the same again.
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what can i say i'm a winner
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i'm nostalgic for the old days because it made me feel like i belonged somewhere
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waaaaait i didn't want to have to do this nostalgia junk until i am gpa
and telling my gkids when they didn't want to listen to their "crazy gamer gpa"
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Vellfare i don't know if you're being completely serious or not but you are being pretty closed minded.. all he's saying is he's having a bit of nostalgia of the old days and thought those days were fun. I would kind of agree but wouldn't really want things to be the same again.
Yeah pretty much this. I don't know how long everyone in this topic has been around in this scene, but I remember the days where people releasing a game was quite a feat. And if the game had a custom battle system, everyone wet their pants because it almost never had been done before.
Also in general I miss the days where I used to play my Sega Genesis as a kid playing platformers and crappy 2D games. Sure we got PS3 and Xbox360 and Wii now and the graphics are a whole lot better bow wow whoopee. Are the times honestly better then back then?
But yeah as B said, I wouldn't want to go back either 'cause as a kid your life is pretty much dictated by the people around you and there's little freedom to make your own decisions.
I guess it just saddens me that some kids will never get to play Super Mario Bros.
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I also am a human being and experience nostalgia.
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nah man it's not me being closed minded (why would you think this) i get nostalgia just like everyone else the problem is that in the first post he's saying that everything people are excited about or using now is dumb in comparison to THE GOOD OLD DAYS and the thing is it's not! he's saying rmxp is awful because BACK IN MY DAY and it's the exact same shit, it's just that he doesn't have the nostalgia for it like he does rm2k and so it's not as good, when really it's just the same.
and in his latest post he's doing the same thing with video games, and one day kids are going to be doing the same thing for ps3 and xbox games, talking about how the new games are not any good because we used to have these great ps3 games and now all these games are trash. this is the exact thing people do with books or movies or really anything. the truth is it's because you have the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia making those old things seem better when really if you didn't have that nostalgia you would think they were dumb. this is a perfectly valid thing, don't get me wrong, but when you try to use that to insist that something then was better than something today, you're being incredibly short sighted!
i mean can we really say that NES games were so much better than games now? don't you remember how many NES games were completely unplayable? it's because we just have good memories of the good games. in many years we'll only have good memories of the good 360 games, and it'll be the exact same thing. you can't use that as part of an argument though.
edit: somehow i'm the closed minded one when the OP is "HEH YOU AND YOUR LITTLE RMXP GAME......IF IT WASN'T MADE IN RM2K I WANT NO PART IN IT"
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Yeah I guess it's just the nostalgia. I guess things weren't really better back then but because it was all new back then it was more fun. I'm not saying RMXP is not as good as Rm2k I'm just saying I enjoyed my time with Rm2k better then with RMXP.
I don't know I guess we can keep going on and on about this but the times aren't coming back
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I caught myself thinking fondly about the absolute worst time in my life recently, nostalgia is stupid
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[req] doug
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I still find it odd when people in our age group yearn for the GOOD OLD DAYS.
Jeeze... is Obama really that bad?
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george w bush (the w is for WAR) was better hur hur hur
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[req] doug
there were several seasons on youtube a few months ago but i think they have been deleted by now, nickelodeon is hardcore about deleting their shit from youtube
luckily i watched a lot of it before then :fogetcool:
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i don't think i ever got into doug but i liked the animated television series of spiderman and the x-men
that was like 15 years ago
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the old 90's Marvel cartoons are atrocious, really watching them even as a teenager I found them really dumb and terribly paced. Do not go back and watch them. Nostalgia is a terrible fetish.
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i disagree
the 90s x-men cartoon was and still is the shit
you are a terrible waste of a human being
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Nostalgia is a fetish!?
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i thought x-men and spiderman were alright. i still have all the seasons of the spiderman animation on a flash drive somewhere.
that's another thing. back in the days fox kids actually had some good things like spiderman and x-men and the fantastic four and teenage mutant ninja turtles. nowadays the fox kids offspring called jetix feeds children cartoon crap like shuriken school and totally spies and carl 2 and sonic x and lame new seasons of pokemon.
well i guess in usa there are still some cool shows like spiderman superman batman and the x-men but in the netherlands jetix is a channel of ruthless rubbishness
this is now officially a general rant topic about the times that are changing
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Back in my day there was none of this hookah fad
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the rm95+ days were better...........................
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Nostalgia is a fetish!?
It is now. :fogetnaughty:
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I still play The Way. It's still fucking awesome.
Lun will be a great game designer someday. I know it.
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ugh but he used rtp and rips he is no real game making person
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i said designer...he is currently learning to do this shit for real, if i read correctly. the story and gameplay is brilliant for an rm2k game. he has potential which was all i was saying. if his game could get made all original with current gen graphics it would be a hit i mean.
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the old 90's Marvel cartoons are atrocious, really watching them even as a teenager I found them really dumb and terribly paced. Do not go back and watch them. Nostalgia is a terrible fetish.
i understand what you mean about pacing but they're really really good. batman TAS is so good (though it's DC i still group it with the X men and spiderman cartoons). ironman sucks.
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RMXP? One word: Empty and souless. OK so thats three words but meh. Very few RMXP game make me feel fuzzy inside but there are many rm2k3 games that do. OK so there are more 2k3 games than xp but still. The only RMXP game that i ever really liked was Saviour, and that got canceled.
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too bad that has absolutely nothing to do with the software used to make the games
java games? one word: empty and soulless. few java games make me feel fuzzy inside but c# games on the other hand....love those
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You're wrong rm2k games have a totally different look and feel
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rm2k games look and feel however you program them to
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Batman TAS is really good, but the marvel ones, nah. Spiderman's better than x-men though.
Also it's most def a fetish. Some people can only get their rocks off to the concept of lion-o being fisted by reagan.
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No if it's a c# or java or flash (recent flash not 2001's flash) game there is no way to tell it's a c# or java or flash game however you can always tell the difference between a rmxp and a rm2k game at any time
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you're just being dumb to argue with me so w/e there is nothing SOULLESS about one vs the other
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you're just being dumb to argue with me so w/e
Thats stupid. Forums are for open discussion not for you to post your opinion and then expect people to either agree or not post theirs.
My point was most RMXP games seem soulless. Most 2k/2k3 games have character, even if they use rtp.
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:fogetmmh: i think there's only one answer here, the rmxp devs made a deal with the devil.
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you're just being dumb to argue with me so w/e there is nothing SOULLESS about one vs the other
Well they're different
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Thats stupid. Forums are for open discussion not for you to post your opinion and then expect people to either agree or not post theirs.
That's stupid, because inri's the guy who has gone out of his way many times to argue with me, including making shit up in arguments just to troll me, and I am done with it and not arguing with him anymore.
Put it into the context of who I said it to.
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now velfarre I think you're over exaggerating who would ever follow you around and try to troll you in these forums
inri is a standup kind of guy I don't think he would ever do something so crass as to harass someone that looks like that chick off of scooby doo on an online forums
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too bad it keeps happening, i really wish we had the ignore function back on these forums
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Arguing with you is funny because you suck at it more than I do
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But in this case I was just pointing out what you said was completely false
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I rightfully agree with The One about missing the good old Rm2k/Rm2k3 days, back when GW used to have a mainsite with much, much richer content than it does now. All we see is a blog that hardly anyone gives a fuck about.
I was like, 13 or 14 years old when I first discovered GamingW, and that was back in early '04. The moment I got there, did I fucking get excited. There were so many awesome tutorials posted up on this site, that I read and learned how to to fix some mistakes/glitches or get ideas for my older projects that sadly got deleted and no longer retraceable anywhere else on the internet, as far as I'm concerned.
RMXP never really impressed me, but I guess that's because I hardly ever used it, but that's because scripting pretty much killed the simplicity of RPG Maker, in my opinion. I still use RPG Maker 2003 and under to these days, regardless of how lacking in interest the communities have become.
Anyone who agrees, feel free to talk to me if you want to have a good RPG Maker nostalgia chat.
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Because nostalgia rules, I also miss the good old anime shows that played back then, such as Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z, Tenchi Muyo, Trigun, etc., even if I still do hate the art style.
And goddammit, I miss those days when Homestead.com used to be free back in the 90's for anyone to sign up and make their own personal websites, and I still love looking at half-assed fansites with basic pictures and layouts, and errors in some portions of their pages.
I also bid thee an eternal farewell, GeoCities.. atleast we still have AngelFire and Tripod, but I dunno if they'll be there forever.
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sometimes I think that you might just be a joke account but then I realize that there are probably really people like that out there
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Yes. "people like that" who are nostalgic about the past. What's so bad about that? While it's natural to move on, however, it's also natural to sit down remember things that made you feel good and bad, back then in your life.
Don't worry about my words, only worry about yours.
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No I mean "people like that" as someone who is a stereotypical dumbass posting stereotypical dumbass shit on the internet where I can read it and say; "damn, this guy is pretty dumb. this can't be real, no one can be around 20 and be this stupid. oh wait, yes, it is probably real. who would bother? man this guy is a dumb."
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Well your posts are semi-shit too, so I don't give a fuck what others think. If my posts make me look like a "stereotypical dumbass" as you claim me to be, then I'll keep doing that just to kindly piss you off, because that's pretty much the same thing I feel whenever I read most of your posts.
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Well your posts are semi-shit too, so I don't give a flying fuck as to what you think. If my posts make me look like a "stereotypical dumbass" as you claim to be, then I'll keep doing that just to piss you off because that's pretty much the main thing what your post does whenever I read them.
so uh basically you think he is wrong and you are going to prove it by doing the exact thing he's saying, therefore making him right?
i don't see exactly how coxswain is supposed to be upset by this???????
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I never said anything about upsetting anyone, just going to walk the talk because judging others when they don't insult you first is ok.
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so you're saying you're a big ol' hypocrite who complains about something then does it right back
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I remember back in the day when the world was innocent and cartoon network played dragon ballz on saturday nights that was awesome
almost as nostalgic as that time I sat on a broomstick to see if I liked how it felt...ahhh remembering the past
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I miss those good old days too but there's two points I'd like to make.
Firstly, Rm2k(3) was always behind its time by a long shot, but there's been even less progression through to RMXP and whatever they're trying to make now. So the games feel even older than before (thus even crapper) as technology has advanced. Therefore we're more inclined to think badly compared to our idealised memories of rm2k(3).
Secondly, the people using RMXP now are going through the same that everyone here who used rm2k or rm2k3 did. Probably they think what they are doing is cool and will have fond memories of it too when looking back in 6 years.
Thus while I agree, I reckon there is a large degree of bias pumping through our opinions, or the opinions of anyone who thinks those good olds days were better. :-P
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that doesn't work
when i was a kid using rpgmaker i thought what i did was cool but thinking back to that time i have nothing but disgust
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I rightfully agree with The One about missing the good old Rm2k/Rm2k3 days, back when GW used to have a mainsite with much, much richer content than it does now. All we see is a blog that hardly anyone gives a fuck about.
Hey! The main site isn't perfect but it's a work in progress right now. People just need to get interested in it. And I don't know if I'd call a bunch of snes rips, char sets made with that char set maker site and completely interchangeable rpg games richer content.Believe me, I doubt GW will ever go back to that.
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I wake up everyday hoping that I might have lost my memory so I can play Crono Trigger, FF6, Lufia II, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and every fucking amazingly awesome game of the fucking best console ever that the Snes was. I would then open RM2k and attempt to equal them without being an artist.
I don't think it is just a matter of having grown up. They don't make games like those anymore. A great example is Dragon Quest V. I had never played it before and I just got it for my DS. I must say that I enjoy playing that game more than any game on the Wii, PS3 or 360 (this statement applies for most of my DS games really lol).
I think I missed the 3D train when everyone was boarding it, I would take 2D over 3D anyfkinday.
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life is a state of mind
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I wake up everyday hoping that I might have lost my memory so I can play Crono Trigger, FF6, Lufia II, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and every fucking amazingly awesome game of the fucking best console ever that the Snes was. I would then open RM2k and attempt to equal them without being an artist.
lol
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I wake up everyday hoping that I might have lost my memory so I can play Crono Trigger, FF6, Lufia II, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and every fucking amazingly awesome game of the fucking best console ever that the Snes was. I would then open RM2k and attempt to equal them without being an artist.
Interesting note - I've never played any of those games! Actually, I got maybe 1 hour into FF6 before I stopped playing out of boredom. Felt like a horrible Rm2k game to me.
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Jesus, at least try Chrono Trigger or Lufia. I can understand some people can't get into Final Fantasy, but games like Chrono Trigger and Lufia are like the sacred fruit trees hidden in the vast forest of Final Fantasy.
One of the things in the video game department that probably hit me the most is the downfall of the mighty Nintendo. The ones who made the Gameboys so popular, the ones who created the masterpieces NES and SNES, and N64. And what have they become? Seriously, what is the Wii? Is it a gaming console? Or is it a fitness machine, or minigame console for old people? It saddens me to see how ridicilous Nintendo has become.
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CT is pretty dull. Not enough silver hair.
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hey guys i play RPGS
*breathes through mouth*
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Star Trek is better than Star Wars
*is fat and a virgin*
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^ you're gay
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i cant really be gay since im still a virgin
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goatse.jpg
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Jesus, at least try Chrono Trigger or Lufia. I can understand some people can't get into Final Fantasy, but games like Chrono Trigger and Lufia are like the sacred fruit trees hidden in the vast forest of Final Fantasy.
One of the things in the video game department that probably hit me the most is the downfall of the mighty Nintendo. The ones who made the Gameboys so popular, the ones who created the masterpieces NES and SNES, and N64. And what have they become? Seriously, what is the Wii? Is it a gaming console? Or is it a fitness machine, or minigame console for old people? It saddens me to see how ridicilous Nintendo has become.
your idea of games is narrow. just because Nintendo is picking up a different audience doesn't mean they're not making games anymore.
Besides, No More Heroes is pretty good *shrug*
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One of the things in the video game department that probably hit me the most is the downfall of the mighty Nintendo. The ones who made the Gameboys so popular, the ones who created the masterpieces NES and SNES, and N64. And what have they become? Seriously, what is the Wii? Is it a gaming console? Or is it a fitness machine, or minigame console for old people? It saddens me to see how ridicilous Nintendo has become.
I've heard this kind of argument a lot from friends, alongside the idea that the Wii isn't for "hardcore games". To claim that the N64 is some kind of HOLY GRAIL yet the Wii sucks is a bit ridiculous. For every Mario Kart 64 there's a Mario Kart Wii and so on. Nintendo is still making great games, they just happen to have expanded their repertoire of FUN TIMES.
I've been playing videogames as my main form of entertainment now for the past 21 years, yet I've never been as excited as when I bought my Wii. The PS3 doesn't fill me with the same kind of feelings at the moment unfortunately as I'm not that into SOLDIERGAMES. I have an opportunity at the moment to expand my collection by buying a PS3 or Xbox360, yet I can't decide between them as they both seem pretty same old, same old to me. It's unfortunate, but neither fills me with the excitement of the Wii.
Yet, as I say, I'm obviously not a "hardcore gamer", despite the fact that I regularly spend all of my spare time playing video/pcgames, including some exceptionally lifetaking and geeky titles like Europa Universalis, the Total War series, SimINSERTSIMGAMEHERE games, RPGs...the list goes on!!!!
WHAT A RNAT!
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Faust how can you not get excited about firing guns in a world of grey and brown? You're obviously not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination....
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It is clearly the case ;_;!!! I am obviously a total fraud :(
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the bright colours of wii games suit the mindset of a homosexual
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wii can scuk my wiiwii
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for once i agree with you allen hunter