Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Mince Wobley on December 06, 2009, 07:16:01 pm
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Yesterday I was watching something about animals on the discovery channel and there were some intelligent people trying to prove that animals can think and etc, and they showed how dolphins blow ring shaped bubbles and then swim through it just for entertainment and how if they placed two buckets, one with a pic of stapler and the other with a pic of an apple in a monkey infested zone the monkeys would check the bucket with the apple picture first and etc. Also there were a bunch of chimps beating up another one (because he had an undesirable personality) and when they stopped the victim climbed up a tree and another chimp (with a higher status) got near him to stop the other chimps from beating him up again.
So they do everything we do but in a smaller scale (because they don't have the same motor coordination we do). Don't even come with that "duh but we can go to the moon in a rocket ship" because you can't and won't ever do that, you're not smart enough to go to the moon or do anything else or else you wouldn't be reading this. Don't say "it's just chemistry duh" because so are you.
So, how do you feel about animals being just like people? Feel free to post your outdated 19th century ideas.
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cat: "Graaaowww" :sad:
me: "ok basil, here's your seat on the sofa"
cat: "Graaoooowww!" *jumps onto sofa*
me: "ok where am I gonna sit now" :sad:
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animals are pretty cool, there's a movement to grant legal protection to our fellow apes. I really hope it succeeds.
elephants and gorrillas are ace, I remember reading about like Koko and her friends, the gorillas that could speak and form sentances in sign language, and could form new words by combining symbols.
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My cat can open doors.
When I flip off my cat he gets angry.
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Animals can think but they can't reason like most of us humans can. Animals can't write poetry and shit that humans can do.
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Animals can think but they can't reason like most of us can do. Animals can't write poetry and shit that humans can do.
Don't even come with that "duh but we can go to the moon in a rocket ship" because you can't and won't ever do that, you're not smart enough to go to the moon or do anything else or else you wouldn't be reading this.
Feel free to post your outdated 19th century ideas.
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Also there were a bunch of chimps beating up another one (because he had an undesirable personality) and when they stopped the victim climbed up a tree and another chimp (with a higher status) got near him to stop the other chimps from beating him up again.
Very few animals are capable of actions like this. The current belief is that most great apes and other mammals do have the ability to empathize with others, in the sense that they feel stressed when they notice others are in trouble, but aren't able to translate those feelings into actions. Chimps are the smartest of the bunch and have shown themselves to be highly social, but they're really the only ones, and their abilities are still miniscule compared to even the earliest humans.
So they do everything we do but in a smaller scale (because they don't have the same motor coordination we do).
Hardly. There are still fundamental differences between chimps and humans.
If you're interested, try googling for the PCDH11X and PCDH11Y genes. Chimps are said to have only one, on the x-chromosome, while humans have two. This is possibly the reason why we developed so differently from our common ancestor. Unfortunately when I look for it on Google I find mostly research information and not many easily readable articles.
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A thousand monkeys can sit for a thousand years by a thousand typewrites and they'll still write a more interesting book than Tom Clancy.
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Animals can think but they can't reason like most of us humans can. Animals can't write poetry and shit that humans can do.
Quick, somebody get this man a research grant!
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I remember this awful pbs program where they had a bunch of idiots with glasses and sweaters sitting around a table masturbating and acting like they know things. they were talking about music, and one of the guys stroked his chin and said "one of the major differences between animals and humans is that humans have the capacity to enjoy music" then he smirked and his friend giggled and they finished each other off.
so I guess the point is that some people get these weird ideas about animals that sort of downplay their intelligence or abilities. like, they really want to make sure they're different from/superior to other animals. it's really strange. I hope we get someone like that here.
of course people also attribute things to animals that they simply cannot do but that seems pretty normal to me, everyone wants to feel like they have a smart pet
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i am glad animals can think.
good job animals! :sport:
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Very few animals are capable of actions like this. The current belief is that most great apes and other mammals do have the ability to empathize with others, in the sense that they feel stressed when they notice others are in trouble, but aren't able to translate those feelings into actions. Chimps are the smartest of the bunch and have shown themselves to be highly social, but they're really the only ones, and their abilities are still miniscule compared to even the earliest humans.
It's just an example dada.... The point is animals do things people in the 19th century tought only humans did.
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It's just an example dada.... The point is animals do things people in the 19th century tought only humans did.
yeahhhhh okay TOPIC OVER.
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No it's not because I said it's ok to post outdated ideas, I wanna read them too.
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9i like anymals.. there kewt
(http://api.ning.com/files/4ns1V9OVW1XXo*nXB*yTcWmOWzhBiiM4ZHp8*5InnBcndWb66-qQNf1kO*W*xRQjKi-7ybjmMHYFEgsLMPuPzCmkO0cRuUmO/1154989168_cute_animal_baby_02.jpg)
KAWAIII <3
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So they do everything we do but in a smaller scale (because they don't have the same motor coordination we do).
i dont think motor coordination is the main reason chimps' social activities are on a much smaller and primitive scale than humans
noting the capacity for certain species to think, specifically primates, is pretty important in understanding the development of our own species. However equating human intelligence to that of other animals is p. naive and overlooks a lot of pretty significant differences that distinguish the human brain and its capabilities as a remarkable product of evolution.
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also: dolphinsex.org (http://web.archive.org/web/20040611094028/http://www.dolphinsex.org/)
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No it's not because I said it's ok to post outdated ideas, I wanna read them too.
wait I don't get what the point of this topic is anymore. But regardless man it's pretty obvious that animals are still on quite a different level no matter how exciting a documentary might have made it seem. Still, this is a very interesting topic of research and clearly shows that sympathy for other members of one's species is a highly successful evolutionary trait. The smarter we became, the better we could cooperate.
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BTW some of my biggest disappointments in the human race come from people who poach animals. Thanks for wiping out an animal specie permanently dickheads.
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to answer this you need to answer some philosophy questions on what thought and intellect are. is the autistic calculator intelligent? thoughtful? an illiterate rapper?
plenty of animals do smart things and i'm pretty sure all of them have REM sleep so there's something going on behind INPUT/OUTPUT in animals too.
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wait I don't get what the point of this topic is anymore. But regardless man it's pretty obvious that animals are still on quite a different level no matter how exciting a documentary might have made it seem. Still, this is a very interesting topic of research and clearly shows that sympathy for other members of one's species is a highly successful evolutionary trait. The smarter we became, the better we could cooperate.
The point was to see someone posting that humans don't have intelect and can't create art, then someone stating the obvious and then climbtree not doign either of those things and figuring out what the topic was all about
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i'm glad this was approached in a non-leading fashion
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I remember this awful pbs program where they had a bunch of idiots with glasses and sweaters sitting around a table masturbating and acting like they know things. they were talking about music, and one of the guys stroked his chin and said "one of the major differences between animals and humans is that humans have the capacity to enjoy music" then he smirked and his friend giggled and they finished each other off.
downplaying is common
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the elephant is most likely following a set pattern it's been taught. It's done many paintings paintings, prettymuch all of the same pose, in the same manner. It's a very human-y image. It's still a pretty cool feat, but it doesn't know it's painting an elephant. Unlike say Michael the gorilla (http://www.koko.org/friends/kokomart_art.koko.html) wherehis paintings are really fresh, abstract and animalistic (some of them actually remind me of the stuff captain beefheart did as a painter) and clearly not devised by someone to get tourists in.
(I spent ages reading about this kinda stuff during the summer)
Elephants are cool and really intelligent/altruistic and shit, but nah this kinda thing is bogus.
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today i watched a squirrel place multiple nuts on a large leaf, wrap the leaf up and then he looked at me with big eyes and stopped. but it kind of looked like he was making a sack of nuts. you might say a nutsack.
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the elephant is most likely following a set pattern it's been taught. It's done many paintings paintings, prettymuch all of the same pose, in the same manner. It's a very human-y image. It's still a pretty cool feat, but it doesn't know it's painting an elephant. Unlike say Michael the gorilla (http://www.koko.org/friends/kokomart_art.koko.html) wherehis paintings are really fresh, abstract and animalistic (some of them actually remind me of the stuff captain beefheart did as a painter) and clearly not devised by someone to get tourists in.
(I spent ages reading about this kinda stuff during the summer)
Elephants are cool and really intelligent/altruistic and shit, but nah this kinda thing is bogus.
something broke inside me!! you bastard!!!!
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something broke inside me!! you bastard!!!!
looks like SOMEONE needs the morning after pill..
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something broke inside me!! you bastard!!!!
Sorry bud, but elephants are still cool, I've read about them burying their dead and stuff, and doing all crazy cool things.
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the elephant is most likely following a set pattern it's been taught. It's done many paintings paintings, prettymuch all of the same pose, in the same manner. It's a very human-y image. It's still a pretty cool feat, but it doesn't know it's painting an elephant.
ceci n'est pas une elephant
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http://griefchat.org/members/adolf/images/loyal.jpg
Warning: ;__;
When you consider the photo I've posted, the bird video posted above, what we know about dolphins and elephants, etc... I think the answer is pretty obvious. Some animals do exhibit intelligence and complex emotions.
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POST CUTE VIDS
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also: dolphinsex.org (http://web.archive.org/web/20040611094028/http://www.dolphinsex.org/)
i clicked this
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lets list animals that tom clancy is better than
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list of animals that tom clancy is better than:
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he's better than the tom clancy, which is a sort of maggot crossed with an octopus.
(http://pub.gamingw.net/32625/tomclancy.bmp)
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Umm, I thought we always knew that animals could think. That's what their brains are their for right? The semantics didn't ever seem all that important to me, since the degree of thought expressed by an organism is always unique to the organism being observed, even within the same species or family.
I mean, if there are already humans out there that simply don't think in any capacity (Tom Clancy), then it's not a far stretch to assume that there are animals that actually can think in various capacities matching our own (If not actually exceeding them).
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fuck yall splintercell was terific stroyteling
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i clicked this
As did I... as did I...
I'd say animals are intelligent. I KNOW they have the capacity to learn things at least through imitation. and at humans do that with MOST of the things that they learn. They aren't on the same level as us at all, however. Don't get me wrong, I wish this wasn't the case but it pretty much is. How awesome would it be if we could have talking pets? actually, maybe it'd be weird... I dunno. :fogetshrug:
Also, on the topic of Tom Clancy, I've never read anything by him. but I imagine I should disregard most of what you guys say about him and his books. You kind of get into a mob mentality and love to hate things/people(yourselves?).
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Also, on the topic of Tom Clancy, I've never read anything by him. but I imagine I should disregard most of what you guys say about him and his books. You kind of get into a mob mentality and love to hate things/people(yourselves?).
:cheese:
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Also, on the topic of Tom Clancy, I've never read anything by him. but I imagine I should disregard most of what you guys say about him and his books. You kind of get into a mob mentality and love to hate things/people(yourselves?).
[/quote
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sorry to stop the cheese train but
Also, on the topic of Tom Clancy, I've never read anything by him. but I imagine I should disregard most of what you guys say about him and his books. You kind of get into a mob mentality and love to hate things/people(yourselves?).
tom clancy is pretty much regarded as a trashy author by everyone, this isn't a GW thing sorry
heh...gw thought the chun-li movie was terrible? i'd better disregard that, mob mentality and sheeple and all that
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really you could have just posted the cheese, its not like he's gonna go out and read anything anyway
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your cheese argument has a lot of holes in it
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PAAAAAAH-hahahaha!
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erm um sorry, just laughing at climbtree's joke...! ~ o ~'
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i liked clear and present danger but that might've been because i read it when i was 17
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How awesome would it be if we could have talking pets? actually, maybe it'd be weird... I dunno.
No one would want to have a cat anymore because you'd really find out how much they despise you and it would generally be more like having a furry little asshole of a roommate who randomly prances into the room, looks at you with scorn and announces to your friends that he just got back from defecating abundantly in your dirty laundry and less like having a normal pet.
Silence is golden.
Also that elephant video reminded me of a short story from Beware of God by Shalom Auslander about a chimp in a zoo who randomly achieves sentience one day and starts painting on the walls of his enclosure with feces. The zookeepers are amazed when it starts attracting more people to the zoo so they buy him art supplies and he proceeds to express his inner torment through the majesty of the brush before giving in and committing suicide in a wavepool.
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I have to say, that I completely disagree, with your argument. In my opinion, they are very stupid, and very dumb. They dont even know where they are! I like how he said it: You are are living on borowed time!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb_q_ryOqlg
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sorry to stop the cheese train but
tom clancy is pretty much regarded as a trashy author by everyone, this isn't a GW thing sorry
heh...gw thought the chun-li movie was terrible? i'd better disregard that, mob mentality and sheeple and all that
ok, maybe the mob mentality was a BIT of a stretch but mob mentality and sheeple are not completely the same thing and I never used the word sheeple...
But you guys do tend to hate a lot of things, and that's fine but you rarely if ever actually explain WHY you hate it.
I pretty much ignore the opinions of people that never actually explain their reasoning for it because I then assume its because of some bias or they just don't have a very well thought out reason for hating it.
Anyways, I've played tom Clancy GAMES before (Ghost Recon 1 and Rainbow Six: Vegas). The story is usually nothing to write home about but its not TERRIBLE.
Also, WTF is up with the cheese? I never understood this. Is it a GW Meme? A play on "Would you like some cheese with your whine?"
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I have long conversations with pretty much every animal I spot outside just in case ONE OF THEM is some sort of genius animal and can understand me. just... in case
Also there are smart animals and stupid animals in a similar vein as there are smart humans and stupid humans! It is not exactly the same as we often enjoy stupid animals more (so long as they are not jerks). For instance, both of my cats (present and the last one) were very smart as far as cats go; they understand certain commands (not verbal, but certain body language and some sounds), can open doors, learn my routines, et cetera, whereas my brothers cats are not smart. They don't learn through repetition, they aren't particularly clever, and they do stupid things even if by all rights they should stop doing those things because it ends badly for them every time.
But seriously, I as a decently intelligent human being don't understand most complex things presented to me, and I am loads smarter than lots of people I meet. Even the smartest animal is dumber than the dumbest person (barring retardations or whatever they are called now).
To sum up, lets euthanize retards and replace them in society with chimps
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i'm pretty sure a lot of animals can defeat athletes (i'd struggle to catch anything with my mouth) and i've never understood a thing any animal has said to me
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ok, maybe the mob mentality was a BIT of a stretch but mob mentality and sheeple are not completely the same thing and I never used the word sheeple...
But you guys do tend to hate a lot of things, and that's fine but you rarely if ever actually explain WHY you hate it.
I pretty much ignore the opinions of people that never actually explain their reasoning for it because I then assume its because of some bias or they just don't have a very well thought out reason for hating it.
Anyways, I've played tom Clancy GAMES before (Ghost Recon 1 and Rainbow Six: Vegas). The story is usually nothing to write home about but its not TERRIBLE.
Tom Clancy is trash. He has an almost 'production run' like way of writing books. They are all the same. Any character from any of his books can be interchanged with any character from any of his other books. Any plot from any of his books can be interchanged by any plot from any of his other books. This is why he's able to shit them out at a rate of about three per month.
There is [someone ][/someone] send in [team ][/team] to [kill/destroy/unplug/rescue]. Insert generic [traitor/spy/conspiracy/coverup] to make people who don't read much think it's a decent story.
He might be average by cold war thriller standards (I DO NOT KNOW, IS THIS A WHOLEY GARBAGE GENRE????) but he is one of the best paid novelists for essentially writing something any of us could've done as 15 year olds. He is the TEAM ALPHA equivalent of Dan Brown I guess. Actually I think Private Eye's literary critic does regard him on the same level as Dan Brown and Stephanie MyOOHVAMPTORSO*glomp*
Some things you don't need to explain disliking, generic, repetative unimaginative garbage is one of em.
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Most sequential books are like this e.g. James Bond, Dirk Pitt etc. They're just a compiled of completely stock plots to put the main character (in this case Jack Ryan) in for another tale. I don't think Tom Clancy is worse than Clive Cussler and I think you're over sighting how many books he has published. It's considerbly less than say Cussler or even Stephen King who has become trashy in his later years. It's odd that Tom Clancy is the go-to guy for trashy novels. Yeah, he's trash, but there are worse than him
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Sorry but there will always be worse. There are worse movies than Chun-Li but that doesn't change the fact that it was absolute shit. Just because there's worse trash out there, it doesn't change the fact that this example is still godawful.
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yeah so if there are worse writers, why do people use Tom Clancy as an example of shit, when there are worse?
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yeah so if there are worse writers, why do people use Tom Clancy as an example of shit, when there are worse?
does it matter? nobody wants to run statistical analysis on the universe's most shitty author, tom clancy just comes to mind sometime and he gets used.
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sorry to stop the cheese train but
"GW's goin' off the rails on a cheese train" Da-da da-da da-da da-da, da-da da-da da-da da
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hi im bublssss alens monkkky anmls arre intelgent ii typped
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My monkey typed the previous post up. Guess they're pretty intelligent after all!
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yeah so if there are worse writers, why do people use Tom Clancy as an example of shit, when there are worse?
because tom clancy is famous for it and has even turned his work into a brandname of sorts
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Tom Clancy is trash. He has an almost 'production run' like way of writing books. They are all the same. Any character from any of his books can be interchanged with any character from any of his other books. Any plot from any of his books can be interchanged by any plot from any of his other books. This is why he's able to shit them out at a rate of about three per month.
There is [someone hostage/a bomb in an important place/ a hiding assassin/ a foreigner] send in [team a/team1/team alpha] to [kill/destroy/unplug/rescue]. Insert generic [traitor/spy/conspiracy/coverup] to make people who don't read much think it's a decent story.
He might be average by cold war thriller standards (I DO NOT KNOW, IS THIS A WHOLEY GARBAGE GENRE????) but he is one of the best paid novelists for essentially writing something any of us could've done as 15 year olds. He is the TEAM ALPHA equivalent of Dan Brown I guess. Actually I think Private Eye's literary critic does regard him on the same level as Dan Brown and Stephanie MyOOHVAMPTORSO*glomp*
Some things you don't need to explain disliking, generic, repetative unimaginative garbage is one of em.
you could've just given a link rather than copied out all the options