Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: jamie on April 02, 2010, 12:29:26 am
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What's your stance on giving money to homeless people/begging people? Do you do it all the time, or only in certain situations? Weigh in.
I do it. Not all the time because I'm not rich but most days I am out I usually have a pound or two to spare so I drop some money in a cup or buy a big issue. I feel like a total chump if I just walk on. I don't always go back but in my head I am having an argument with myself about it. One time I got in too deep with a guy and ended up giving a guy like £10 because he was really persistent and I got a bit angry with him but I decided I wasn't going to be just some guy who told him to fuck off. I am pretty embarassed about it, really. It was too much money, maybe. He was a goofy guy, giving me all his sales talk, as well. I regret it less than if I had shouted at him and left, though.
What if you see the same person in the same spot all the time? Have you ever been mistaken for a begger? I have.
Just wondering, because I think about what is okay and what isn't all the time about this when I am out walking around.
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I don't, although I do feel bad about it. A couple of years back a dude at a train station asked me for money for a train ticket because he was short a couple of bucks. I gave it to him, but then I watched him ask like 2 other people for money so I guess I got JIPPED. He seemed so upset and didn't look homeless at ALL.
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Theres only one real hobo in my town I'm pretty sure. A couple homeless people I think but only one legitimate, begging hobo. I stopped giving him money a long time ago because the dumbass does rounds all around town at local fast food resturaunts and shit trying to get money off of people that work there or go there to eat. He's been doing it since I can remember and after all of these years has still managed to not find a job anywhere so I figured thats his sole source of income and also fuck him because apparently he's just a leech.
He actually started carrying a guitar which he can't play worth a shit but carries to the local sports bar and "shreds it up" with broken strings and all. I think he's kind of annoying because I don't want to hear that shit while I'm drinking and why the fuck does he bother asking kids working minimum wage jobs for money. He used to have a dog when I was in highschool and when he had the dog I would always give him money because I felt bad for the dog atleast, dunno where it went.
If I'm out and someone asks me for some spare change or whatever and I feel they aren't hustling me for money, I'll give them whatever extra cash I've got but I don't really carry cash on me anymore anyways so its never more then a few bucks.
I feel pretty bad sometimes when I'm driving by beggars in my car because they're all much older than I am and its got to hurt seeing such a young guy driving around in something like that and they prolly think that I'm some pampered white boy but then I remember that I'm not and I've grinded for every single thing I got and forced myself to put up with alot of bullshit just to get where I am right now. Why couldn't they do that? its not hard to get a minimum wage job where I'm from, I'd understand a bigger city or something where theres a denser population but its not too hard in my area. So what is it? Are they just lazy or misguided or what? I figure if someone is willing to throw aside their dignity and stand on the side of the highway holding a sign in weathered threads for quarters and dollars then they're not worth the sweat and frustration I had to endure to get mine.
I know it sounds selfish but I don't think it is, I help when I can and I give in my own way. I already help my loser ass friends and family I don't need an extra hand in my fucking face. So I wait for the people that ask me because they seem desperate or better yet the ones that don't ask at all because they've got a little bit of pride left.
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That right there is an instant classic, Ghoul. It hits all the main points, should consider putting it in a facebook note asap, "$$ is god"
Also why is their some stipulation that people are only worth giving money to if they eventually get a job? Giving money to someone on the street isn't about inspiring them or encouraging some ideal, it's about recognizing your own secure humanity, and the remote chance that buck makes a difference. You give it knowing full well it may be spent unwisely or simply to reinforce a bad habit. If you are going to gripe over that kind of thing then go out of your way to find a donation you trust or better yet ask if you can get them a sandwich or something to eat. Smart people will guilt you into buying them a sandwich rather than even ask for cash.
The not getting a job thing and PRIDE and DIGNITY are all bs you are attaching to them. here we have a lot of people who have been on the street since one of the mental health institutions shut down. Also also they stay in the same spot because they have shit they can't leave unattended, people without homes have a very difficult time protecting their stuff and lacking a permanent address also hurts your chances at getting a job.
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I almost never really have any spare change. The thing about hobos here, is that they aren't really the kind that deserve my sympathy. There are ones that make you feel bad, but for example there's this one guy who's stronger and healthier than I am, who actually takes up a brief case and walks to a specific spot in front of a bank every morning to beg. He could easily get some sort of blue collar job (which believe it or not, is actually in demand here). But instead he finds it too easy to just sit there and mooch off people.
Then there's the people who you give money, and they just gather it to drink. Town area is pretty much full of this kind of people. They ask for money for bread, and use it for rum instead. It's disgusting, really.
Now, don't get me wrong, on the rare occasion that I actually do have money in my pocket to spare, and there's someone who actually looks like they might need it, I'll spare the change.
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I give money lots of times. I'm not one to judge what they are going to do with it. Many homeless people have serious problems though. I think I read somewhere that almost half of all homeless people have some sort of mental condition like schizophrenia.
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I give money lots of times. I'm not one to judge what they are going to do with it. Many homeless people have serious problems though. I think I read somewhere that almost half of all homeless people have some sort of mental condition like schizophrenia.
obviously they aren't good at managing money. you can't do anything responsible with that money, ever. it's almost always used for crystal meth or something like that. you don't have to judge them to not give them your own fucking money,
i live in vegas so i guess i've just seen every variety, and the only thing I can say is that if you want to help out homeless, donate to a homeless shelter/soup kitchen/whatever, because anyone that really needs help is not a tweaker is going to go to a soup kitchen, not stand off a freeway exit looking sad :( :( an ddirty :( :(
My favorite thing is to tell somebody i dont have any money as i'm walking in to a fast food place. i actually rarely ever have cash anyway, but it's still great. Yesterday someone asked me for money walking in to mcdonalds. when i came out he was on a cell phone. I'm glad i didnt give him any money (and tragically hilarious was it was one of the few times i actually had cash and change on me).
Like i said before, if they aren't in a homeless shelter getting the food they claim to need, it's probably because they are insane or on crystal meth/crack. if you give them any money they will just go buy crystal meth. don't fucking do it.
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giving money to beggars is essentially ENABLING or whatever you wanna call it. it's not something you can feel good about. food is fine tho
I've given money to a strangers twice. I think both of them were beggars, but I'm not sure about the first one. he seemed like a confused old guy and he only wanted a few quarters. he said he only needed this many more to get a ticket home, and he had all the other quarters lined up in his hand. could have been a ruse or could have been the truth doesn't matter
the second time was kind of embarrassing. it was this gross shirtless young guy and he asked me for change. I made the mistake of looking at him so, unable to say no, I opened up my wallet to show I only had a couple bucks and say I needed em to get home. but somehow money weaseled its way in there. 5 would get him something to eat, and when he saw the extra one in there he said it would send him home. so I gave him all six dollars and I still feel kinda bad about it. not about the money you dope it's just six dollars, I feel bad about being dumb and giving into this guy who's just gonna go hassle another person
I feel pretty bad sometimes when I'm driving by beggars in my car because they're all much older than I am and its got to hurt seeing such a young guy driving around in something like that and they prolly think that I'm some pampered white boy but then I remember that I'm not and I've grinded for every single thing I got and forced myself to put up with alot of bullshit just to get where I am right now. Why couldn't they do that? its not hard to get a minimum wage job where I'm from, I'd understand a bigger city or something where theres a denser population but its not too hard in my area. So what is it? Are they just lazy or misguided or what? I figure if someone is willing to throw aside their dignity and stand on the side of the highway holding a sign in weathered threads for quarters and dollars then they're not worth the sweat and frustration I had to endure to get mine.
I know it sounds selfish but I don't think it is, I help when I can and I give in my own way. I already help my loser ass friends and family I don't need an extra hand in my fucking face. So I wait for the people that ask me because they seem desperate or better yet the ones that don't ask at all because they've got a little bit of pride left.
ever hear of this great book. it's called atlas shrugged
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I give em money if I have some change I don't need for anything. Not if they're selling the big issue though, I don't want the big issue.
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there's no shortage of homeless people here, i sure as hell can't give them my money.
if i'm downtown and they're sitting down with a can or hat or somethign I will outright ignore them, otherwise i will probably say "no sry" and keep walking.
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there aren't many plain old homeless people here, at least that I have seen. I dunno, I don't think I'd have a problem with giving someone like that money
but the majority of beggars I encounter here aren't necessarily homeless, just people who badger you for money
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yep, quite alot of laissez-faire bullshit going on in here so far. i'm not trying to demonize everyone who isn't for giving money, some of the stuff earl said yes i am worried about. i get that it being POINTLESS or whatever is a concern. You don't walk away thinking 'wow...it's so great i did that. what a thing i just did. so...so human'. i mean alot of people probably do but they can go jump a stick. maybe it even hurts in the long run but - hold on - how the heck do i know that?
i don't know about their addictions, i don't know about their mental conditions, i don't know anything about them. it could be anything, people saying it's PROBABLY a certain something doesn't matter. my judgement is that somebody is asking me for money and i'd give anybody money if they asked. first of all, what the fuck do i need? a better ipod? i'm flying to australia next week because i felt like it. i buy booze all the time. my money is wasted on me, even without that last thing. money is wasted on everybody who has it just lying around.
i've got some confusion on where to draw the line though, on how exactly i feel about walking past people with the cup in their hands.
sorry for getting uh, vitriolic. i really don't mean to. this is mostly directed at myself. i'm not looking to scream at anybody right now.
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I ignore them at all times, livin in the city i have been trained to reinforce the invisible walls separating me from pedestrians except for certain situatioins but naw not homless.
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giving money to beggars is essentially ENABLING or whatever you wanna call it. it's not something you can feel good about. food is fine tho
I've given money to a strangers twice. I think both of them were beggars, but I'm not sure about the first one. he seemed like a confused old guy and he only wanted a few quarters. he said he only needed this many more to get a ticket home, and he had all the other quarters lined up in his hand. could have been a ruse or could have been the truth doesn't matter
the second time was kind of embarrassing. it was this gross shirtless young guy and he asked me for change. I made the mistake of looking at him so, unable to say no, I opened up my wallet to show I only had a couple bucks and say I needed em to get home. but somehow money weaseled its way in there. 5 would get him something to eat, and when he saw the extra one in there he said it would send him home. so I gave him all six dollars and I still feel kinda bad about it. not about the money you dope it's just six dollars, I feel bad about being dumb and giving into this guy who's just gonna go hassle another person
ever hear of this great book. it's called atlas shrugged
Do you mean enabling in the sense of habits? That's something I really haven't had to deal with since it really isn't prevalent in Madison, WI. Maybe drinking but there really isn't a question that a large portion of the homeless here are mental health cases. Still, I think the reality is it happens and you weigh the chance it does more harm than good against the hope they'll at least spend something on needs. Are there more effective ways to ensure it gets to people in need? Maybe, but clearly these people aren't getting the help they need now. If the concern is you may give it to someone who doesn't need it then you are going to have a hard time finding who is the neediest. That's a road which will require being judgmental and people will only go so far as to satisfy themselves in this regard (Seaweed decided men in suits cannot be in need but someone who looks needy (rags??) are in need, he feels good without second guessing that this person may simply be better at getting money from you). I guess what I'm saying is you can give it to someone who is asking right then and there on I guess HOPE I dunno or spend time trying to find the best candidates to receive your help which kinda misses the point of "just giving." Family members and friends give to each other all the god damn time and it goes to shit like video games frequently, but we become overly concerned if we give money (small amounts) to someone we don't know... because we don't know that it'll go to something more valuable than video games
Also is feeling good even a part of it? A lot of times I give out of guilt and only feel doubt afterwords. Usually I walk away from the situation feeling pretty uncomfortable
But if you mean enabling in terms of the practice of begging, then uhhhh I dunno what to say beyond it's no less a worthwhile way of trying to get money than working. If the expectation is that beggars are only trying to slack their way through life and take advantage of other people's kindness, then the same can be said about a lot of people who work for a living. So much comes at other people's expense in the system. But I think that's more directed at seaweed than you.
Also haha there have been like 6 replies now
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i don't know about their addictions, i don't know about their mental conditions, i don't know anything about them. it could be anything, people saying it's PROBABLY a certain something doesn't matter. my judgement is that somebody is asking me for money and i'd give anybody money if they asked. first of all, what the fuck do i need? a better ipod? i'm flying to australia next week because i felt like it. i buy booze all the time. my money is wasted on me, even without that last thing. money is wasted on everybody who has it just lying around.
donating to a soup kitchen or something is not wasting money, and the next time you are confronted with a person you can confidently say no, knowing you are not wasting your money in this particular instance, and that you are really helping the people the this person is pretending to be (needy).
edit: you know that sounds really preachy and i do nothing of the sort, so i take it back and apologize. I'm just saying yeah, you "waste" money all the time, every day, but enabling these people is a 100% justifiable reason to never give them anything and not feel bad about HOARDING YO MONEY because seriously they all by crystal meth.
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donating to a soup kitchen or something is not wasting money, and the next time you are confronted with a person you can confidently say no, knowing you are not wasting your money in this particular instance, and that you are really helping the people the this person is pretending to be (needy).
not buying this attitude at all! i do want to get into talking about soup kitchens and stuff like that, though. i don't know anything about it. don't just go nuts over how much people begging for money are liars - i think everyone pretty much knows that! - but if you know a better way of directing your excess/unneeded money or even time then talk about it. i don't know squat about that.
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Seattle is pretty infamous for our homeless population and if you gave money to everyone who asked you while you were out and about you'd lose like 20 dollars.
That said, I usually use discretion on who I give money to. there's some folks that sell a charitable weekly paper called Real Change that I usually buy and I'll sometimes give a dollar or two to panhandlers if they don't smell like booze or look junked out.
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where i live i'm sure there are homeless people (bound to be some EVERYWHERE right??) but i have never seen anyone begging EVER. probably because there's no real such thing as pedestrians where i live, you have to drive everywhere so where is anyone gonna see people walking down the street to ask them for money?
that being said, if i am in a bigger city and someone asks me for a dollar and i have one i don't mind giving to them. this has not happened to me many times so i guess i don't really have a general rule of who i'd give money to! i guess i am just a helpful person, the same way if someone is in line behind me in a store or (something that happened a few months ago) at a movie theatre and i hear them behind me saying they're a dollar short, i pretty much can't help but give them the dollar! regardless as to who asks, if they use it for bad things then i'm not going to know about it anyway, but if they genuinely needed it then i just helped them out. unless they are a blatant drugged/drunk mess then w/e.
but i feel like my attitude would be different if i lived somewhere with tons of beggars, i might be a lot more selective idk! in my current situation it's such a rare thing for someone to ask me for spare cash that i don't really see a problem in giving it to them.
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Do you mean enabling in the sense of habits? That's something I really haven't had to deal with since it really isn't prevalent in Madison, WI. Maybe drinking but there really isn't a question that a large portion of the homeless here are mental health cases. Still, I think the reality is it happens and you weigh the chance it does more harm than good against the hope they'll at least spend something on needs. Are there more effective ways to ensure it gets to people in need? Maybe, but clearly these people aren't getting the help they need now. If the concern is you may give it to someone who doesn't need it then you are going to have a hard time finding who is the neediest. That's a road which will require being judgmental and people will only go so far as to satisfy themselves in this regard (Seaweed decided men in suits cannot be in need but someone who looks needy (rags??) are in need, he feels good without second guessing that this person may simply be better at getting money from you). I guess what I'm saying is you can give it to someone who is asking right then and there on I guess HOPE I dunno or spend time trying to find the best candidates to receive your help which kinda misses the point of "just giving." Family members and friends give to each other all the god damn time and it goes to shit like video games frequently, but we become overly concerned if we give money (small amounts) to someone we don't know... because we don't know that it'll go to something more valuable than video games
Also is feeling good even a part of it? A lot of times I give out of guilt and only feel doubt afterwords. Usually I walk away from the situation feeling pretty uncomfortable
But if you mean enabling in terms of the practice of begging, then uhhhh I dunno what to say beyond it's no less a worthwhile way of trying to get money than working. If the expectation is that beggars are only trying to slack their way through life and take advantage of other people's kindness, then the same can be said about a lot of people who work for a living. So much comes at other people's expense in the system. But I think that's more directed at seaweed than you.
Also haha there have been like 6 replies now
first of all I guess I mean it doesn't feel good in that it's not really a positive thing to do
and I don't really want to get too much into this because then it's like I'm some stupid right-winger with a speak english bumper sticker but it's enabling a lot of things. it's enabling them to stay homeless and keep collecting money from people, but I don't care about that. being unable to get money from strangers doesn't mean they'd magically shape up and find a job or anything. considering the people who go around badgering everyone for money, it's enabling them to do that, and that's not good. as for enabling drug habits and stuff, obviously that happens but that's not a judgement I'm gonna make. in general it might enable whatever bad money habits putting them in this situation. Positive Feedback or something dumb like that
this isn't a good reason to never give a stranger money but it's something to think about
I was also thinking about how people like to say "they don't need the money" but I guess that's what you guys already said about the money getting wasted no matter what you do with it, which is really true. and well, some of em do need the money even if they have no plans to quit being homeless in the future. you've got to be pretty mentally troubled if you're in that situation not just LAZY like the right also thinks about poor people and blacks.
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I usually don't. For one thing, all our homeless are on two feet. The kind that sit or lie down with a sign that says "I'm hungry" just plain simply don't exist around here since all homeless get free food and shelter. In return, that means the majority of them that ask for money will use it to buy drugs. Of course it depends on the situation. I've given money to people reciting poetry, selling the street newspaper, as well as to people I kept meeting during the commute to work.
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there's no shortage of homeless people here, i sure as hell can't give them my money.
if i'm downtown and they're sitting down with a can or hat or somethign I will outright ignore them, otherwise i will probably say "no sry" and keep walking.
good old vancouver town(unless im thinking of the wrong person). I never give any change, the homeless here have more than enough help and i see giving change to them as being an enabler. this might seem kind of cold hearted but ive seen guys with better clothes then me asking for my money.
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there's a fair amount of homeless people around where i live, enough that you could drop a couple bucks handing out change all day, but not enough that it becomes really frustrating. i used to talk to homeless people a bit during my college years, and actually knew a couple peers who were homeless at certain points and fortunately worked their way through it. there were several more who would have been homeless had a friend not intervened. it might simply be my personal experiences, but i think it's awfully short-sighted to automatically make the words homeless and drug-addict or ex-con synonymous. much more often than not these are people who got rather royally fucked by something in their life and had no viable plan, causing their life to spiral out of control. yeah this could be those key words LAZY or ADDICT, but there are a great number of ways you could end up homeless that wouldn't necessarily be the result of some shameful or contemptible behavior. i can imagine this must be somewhat difficult for someone very privileged to understand entirely, particularly if they have not seen or experienced the misfortune that would lead to homelessness, but it's really the truth in more cases than people would be comfortable admitting. nobody wants to be homeless, and assuming that all people have complete control over their destiny is naive and idiotic.
it might be that i've had more direct interaction with homeless people and seen how easily somebody could become homeless, but i've always been bothered by how cold and often hateful people are towards the homeless. i can understand not wanting to give a dollar to every homeless person you meet, or possessing healthy skepticism when approached by a random person on the street, but there's a pretty big gap between that and the disgust and contempt people often have for those without a home. it feels cliche even saying this but it's remarkable how people lose sight of the fact that it's a human being lying there on the side of the street, and that they somehow possess the powers necessary to evaluate that this person is not worthy of having a home.
anyway, i give change if i have it, although i know i'm not saving the world by doing this. it's something of an empty gesture really, but they'll put it to better use than i will.
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Just to add something here, homelessness is almost never a product of laziness. The world is an incredibly fucked up place and and a lot of these people were brought into this wold under circumstances you can hardly imagine: abusive or lack of any sort of families/relationships ,crippling addictions, untreated mental illness, etc. Top all that off with being at a disadvantage in an almost nonexistent job market with no access to things a lot of us take for granted(clean clothes, shower, telephone) you can't realistically expect someone to suddenly "snap out of it" and get a job when they're sleeping on the street.
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It depends on a bunch of stuff I guess. How much I have, what the weather's like, what my mood is, how guilty I feel. It is kind of uncomfortable territory because on a strict ethical level I'm not sure how you can justify walking on at all, in the same way that I'm not sure how you'd be able to justify buying a coffee instead of giving it to people who probably have more pressing problems than feeling sluggish or whatever. That stuff about enabling is probably correct in a lot of cases but I'm not sure I want to take it as a ground rule because it's a little too close to heh....just spend it on beer.
Basically I think the thing of GIVE TO EVERYBODY is an impossible one to live up to and probably oversimplified on a lot of levels buuuuut I think it's still worth hanging on to as an ideal and remaining aware that you're not living up to it. It's all the same to the guy on the street who gets no money anyway (wow, thanks for feeling guilty for a second after hurrying on, white liberal student!!!) but I guess the difference is that you're not ruling out the possibility of giving altogether and you remain aware that you are failing to live up to your own standards and maybe not get too complacent about stuff. This is a very weedy view but okay.
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Just to add something here, homelessness is almost never a product of laziness. The world is an incredibly fucked up place and and a lot of these people were brought into this wold under circumstances you can hardly imagine: abusive or lack of any sort of families/relationships ,crippling addictions, untreated mental illness, etc. Top all that off with being at a disadvantage in an almost nonexistent job market with no access to things a lot of us take for granted(clean clothes, shower, telephone) you can't realistically expect someone to suddenly "snap out of it" and get a job when they're sleeping on the street.
And this is why it's a good idea to give these people shelter, food and drug rehab. Homelessness is a vicious circle, and the only way to get out of it is through help. I actually knew one guy who sold free newspapers to car commuters waiting at a traffic light. I always had to wait on a tram there so I used to talk with him. He mentioned being able to rent a place and get work at the city trash service through a government program if he could save up enough money for the initial month. A while after that he was gone, and I never saw him again.
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they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps
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they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps
That's right. A house, a bed, a TV, a shower and toilet... they just don't want it badly enough.
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you only deserve empathy for your shortcomings if you have a diagnosed mental condition. otherwise anyone with an IQ of 71+ is Fair Game
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No, I don't. There are organizations who help those people out. Also they can go work for money like I do. I don't mean to sound like an heartless asshole, but I'm not a charity organization.
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yeah i'm just going to let a magical charity that generates money from nowhere help them instead of doing anything myself to help either the people or the charities. and they can just go get themselves a job in their half-destroyed clothes and no address or phone number to put down on their application, i'm sure they'll win over any employer
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So you give money to every hobo / beggar you see?
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No one is saying that, if you feel you really need that dollar then nobody in the fucking world is going to fault you for not giving it. There's more of a stigma attached to giving money (you're a sucker) than just passing by them. That's because a stunning majority simply pass by the needy.
Also, as it has been pointed out a few times, you are neglecting some pretty fundamental issues when you pass it off as "laziness" and say they should just go get a job like me. mental illness, circumstances that have put them there, the fact that getting a job without a permanent address or phone number is incredibly difficult, a lack of storage for their stuff when they do go to a job, those are only the most obvious.
Also it's funny that we hold "nicer clothes than me" against people. They may have had a home or wealth at some point, but even more importantly why are we holding them having suitable clothes against them? At least the are spending some of what they get on needs??? Having nice clothes is also important when being interviewed.
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Also earl since you responded directly to me, I did not mean to imply you were Ghouling. I think it's very true that you run the risk of being a part of a system that does more harm than good. I just don't know that people will ever be privy to the kind of info necessary to make a decision right there on the spot.
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Give a bum 250 bucks and fellow him for the next 24 hours and I bet you'll find out 100% ,why they end up on the street in the first place.
edit: call dibs on the idea of a hidden game show involving bum/homeless. :fogetlaugh:.
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Also it's funny that we hold "nicer clothes than me" against people. They may have had a home or wealth at some point, but even more importantly why are we holding them having suitable clothes against them? At least the are spending some of what they get on needs??? Having nice clothes is also important when being interviewed.
actually i've always chalked that up to the salvation army branches i've been to simply having an outstanding selection of clothes. i'm never particularly surprised when i see a homeless person dressing better than i typically do. you can drop a couple bucks at the salvation army and look pretty goddamn snazzy
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I don't speak to or associate with people I don't have to because I have no desire to be stabbed to death.
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I was waiting at Union Station in Chicago for my bus to come and this homeless dude came up to me trying to sell me The Onion. I gave him a dollar for it even though you can go over the next block and get it for free. This other time I was in Union Station when I got off my bus and was waiting for my train to take me back to my town and this dude comes up to me (while I'm on the phone) and asks me for some money. I give him a couple of cents because I never use change anyway it just accumulates in my wallet and then he's like, "Yo, do you smoke pot?" I just said no and walked away.
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Sometimes.
Once a homeless guy came over to me and said:
"Excuse me mate."
I looked up.
"You dropped your gay card."
And with that he walked off.
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That right there is an instant classic, Ghoul. It hits all the main points, should consider putting it in a facebook note asap, "$$ is god"
Also why is their some stipulation that people are only worth giving money to if they eventually get a job? Giving money to someone on the street isn't about inspiring them or encouraging some ideal, it's about recognizing your own secure humanity, and the remote chance that buck makes a difference. You give it knowing full well it may be spent unwisely or simply to reinforce a bad habit. If you are going to gripe over that kind of thing then go out of your way to find a donation you trust or better yet ask if you can get them a sandwich or something to eat. Smart people will guilt you into buying them a sandwich rather than even ask for cash.
The not getting a job thing and PRIDE and DIGNITY are all bs you are attaching to them. here we have a lot of people who have been on the street since one of the mental health institutions shut down. Also also they stay in the same spot because they have shit they can't leave unattended, people without homes have a very difficult time protecting their stuff and lacking a permanent address also hurts your chances at getting a job.
yeah, apparently you either misread my post or just skimmed through it found the stuff you didn't like in it an picked it out.
I didn't say shit about what a homeless person does with the money I give them. I honestly do not care at all, as a matter of fact if a homeless person walked straight up to me and asked for money to feed his cocaine or crystal meth addiction I would probably do it out of respect for that persons honesty and straight forwardness.
I do not need to give money to someone I don't know to make me feel better about myself or pretend in the back of my mind that I might actually be helping them out. I do not like con artists and I know that single hobo in my hometown is not mentally incapable of applying himself to make some sort of financial income. He does what he does because it gets him by and he doesn't want to do anything else. If I feel that someone genuinely needs my help then I am more than willing to give it. But I don't like getting hustled or fucked around by some dick that would rather stand on the street with his hand out then to try to do something to help himself. And I'm not saying that all homeless people are like that, I'm sure they're not. But unless I feel otherwise about the person I encounter then I wouldn't be inclined to give them shit just to soothe my own ego.
Sure I get where you're coming from and if I lived in the kind of environment where the mental institutions shut down and forced people in the streets or I saw homeless teenagers or men and women everywhere then I might be more inclined to give but I don't live in a place like that and you do not seem to understand that.
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I do not like con artists and I know that single hobo in my hometown is not mentally incapable of applying himself to make some sort of financial income. He does what he does because it gets him by and he doesn't want to do anything else.
did he tell you this or do you JUST KNOW
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Man, I OWE money... a lot of it to. I can't give away money. If I see a person street perform though (play an instrument, do a dance, selling art, etc) I might give them some money. Though usually no more then 2 bucks because I rarely carry much cash with me and when I do I usually plan on using it for something.
When I was in San Francisco there was this guy playing a saxophone on the side walk and I wanted to give him money because he was really good. but I didn't have any money on me and I felt bad, felt like I was sneaking into a performance and not paying for it.
bizarre story:
was was waiting for my family to finish picking books at a library and a hobo looking type with crazy eyes and a beard that appeared to merge into his coats gave me a piece of jerky like meat and walked away. I was utterly and totally baffled by this as I had never seen him before and he didn't speak a word. I thought some shit was up or something so I started feeling kind of paranoid after that.
I did not eat the meat he handed me... I threw it away after he left.
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I'm pretty much assuming since he's been doing it since I was a kid, could remember who I am and what I used to drive and pick me out of a parking lot to come find me and repeatedly as me for money or food when I worked at a fast food resturaunt as a kid. As well as find his way through town and bike six miles from one end of the place to the other with a guitar on his back. I'm pretty sure if the guy can do this every day he is more then capable of holding a minimum wage job.
I know a guy that was homeless at one point (for a few weeks or maybe months I think) before my family took him in and he's a diagnosed schitzophrenic, this guy cannot work and is incapable of fully and independently taking care of himself so he gets disability checks from the government. Thats a person I would be willing to and have helped as much as I was capable on many occasions. Having spoken to the two of these people on seperate occasions I would say the prior is much more mentally capable of doing for himself then the latter.
But yeah you're right I don't know for sure and maybe I'm just an incompassionate dick, I call it like I see it and if I see it incorrectly I hope I can find the error in my ways on my own rather then have some fucking punk tell me I'm some selfish ayn rand wanabee or whatever.
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no one had to misread anything, you were vomiting libertarian objectivist garbage whether you realize it or not. I know you're a DEMOCRAT or something like that so maybe you were repeating something a dumb friend said?
regardless you still aren't being smart. he obviously has to be good at begging for him to be able to survive doing it for so long! and your character judgements are really dumb, there's no way you can draw those conclusions with the information you have. you know how racists tend to make up bad things about minorities to go along with their preexisting hatred? this is a similar situation
you like to pick up standards of hatred against a lot of things for seemingly no better reason than to be able to hate something, it's not good
edit: missed the last part of that post. good you're starting to realize you're wrong
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i feel much better about giving money to people with instruments or who are doing something else that makes people happy than those that sit with a sad face. they're probably sad but i don't want to see it, and if you give them money they look the same!
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If I were rich, I'd give them money. However I can barely make ends meet with my job as paperboy. I get out of my bed during the night everyday except sunday to walk those crappy newspapers, even when it rains like hell. Yeah, I'm sure homeless people have it tough. Most of them. I'm sure their life is crappy and they really need the money. But I have it tough too, and I don't have any money to spare. In before "at least you have a bed": I can't help that I was born in this environment, and I don't think people should have to feel guilty about having a good life.
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I don't think we will never really know in what they use their money. Probably drugs, booze or food. Maybe all of them. But whatever their reason is, I think they need that extra change more than I do.
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Whatever. I don't feel obligated to help them out, especially when they can't say so much as "thanks" after you gave them money. Even if it's not much, you're going out of your damn way to get some change out of your pocket and give it to them while trying to smile. Yet all they can do is keep sitting there with their sad face, most of the times not even looking you in the eyes.
I pity them, but sitting around asking for money won't make you rich either. I honestly don't know what to do if you're ill, have no home or no relatives, but there's got to be some better way to achieve things and get through life.
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Without the people's army, the masses have nothing
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I read the book Sidewalk a couple of months ago and it was saying how some panhandlers if they go in the right spot and know what to do can make over 70 bucks in a day or so.
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The One, you are confusing "I can't help because of my financial situation" and your original statement of "fuck them they should have to work like everyone else boooooootstraps". I think you are only emphasizing the first to cover up how awful the second is!
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The second isn't awful if the homeless in question is healthy. He should be happy with his good health and try to achieve something.
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I read the book Sidewalk a couple of months ago and it was saying how some panhandlers if they go in the right spot and know what to do can make over 70 bucks in a day or so.
I have seen statistics that are a lot higher than this for Toronto but maybe they were made up?
My problem with giving money to homeless people is that it is immediately burned away, usually not on food. I work downtown and I see the same totally crazy looking homeless people day after day grumbling and sleeping on the subway and generally being stinky useless members of society. I'm not angry at them or anything, but if you argue that they are anything but useless dregs then you are dumb! I'm not a libertarian and believe that homeless people should be cared for by the society as a whole, but I just don't see the point in given them change. I am pretty cheap though!
I'm not trying to come off as a dick here but I just legitimately don't see the point in it. If someone could explain to me the end result of giving these people change I would be most obliged. Don't say "SO THEY CAN EAT YOU DICKHEAD" because there are a huge number of social systems set up to ensure they aren't dying that they aren't taking advantage of. The fact that they have a brain problem that makes them unable to accept help from giant organizations designed to give them help isn't going to be solved by me throwing some pennies at them.
edit: it is important to note that Toronto has a disproportionately high number of crazy street people to regular homeless people who need the money to survive, and they are everywhere stinkin' up the city and it has made me incredibly callous toward them. Sorry I am an asshole!
Also it is important to note that most people playing instruments, especially if you see them in the same place every day, aren't homeless people they're buskers. They have to get a license to play in that spot and pay taxes and shit. These people do this as a job and giving them money is cool (unless the suck then they should be encouraged to go away and let better street musicians play).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging#Use_of_funds
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yes im going to give a beggar a 75 cent gift card to shaws
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging#Use_of_funds
Why did you post this? It's a dubious study that, in the next sentence, is pointed out as being dubious.
If you really think that the crazy homeless people of downtown Toronto are spending more on food than they are on drugs and alcohol combined then you are ???. Nevermind how many drugs they actually use, those three things are fucking EXPENSIVE. A package of cigarettes is anywhere from $7-$10 around here, which is two days worth of food if you are concerned about spending wisely (which admittedly they are probably not). That's one package of cigarettes! Nevermind the huge costs of alcohol! I am also disregarding the cost of illegal drugs because let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
Alcohol is super expensive, and so is tobacco. I don't really care what they buy with it anyways because they are never going to buy a better life so =)
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yesterday i went to the bar and there was this homeless dude talking to me about music and spending his money in the bar. actually i dont know if hge was spending it he seemed to just enjoy talking. he didnt ask for money though. he seemed to have some mental issues or really junked out
i sometimes give money or sometimes dont. honestly to me its not even a question of feeling good or not. this is not going to be fixed unless someday we live in a more humane world. i dont think anybody deserves to be smegma in the floor for fucking up, whether at drugs or life or etcetera. i think that is a very unhealthy attitude.
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True story
I was at Leicester with Gareth (GaZZwa), while walking down the town centre we went into one of those second rate KFC, which aren't KFC, just second rate chicken fried fast food. Worse than Maryland Chicken even.
We did our order and sat on a bench to wait for our meals.
A random chav enters the store, goes straight to me (whether he knew I was a foreigner or not I dunno) and says:
"Excuse me mate but do you have 50p? I need 50p, it's for the bus"
and slowly I said "..yes.."
and then there was this odd silence as I looked elsewhere
after a slight stutter the chav said "Could I have them 50p please? It's for the bus"
and I coldly stared at him and said "No.."
The chav was bewildered as I looked away again
Gareth said "sorry" as the chav looked at him for answers and then he left.
I don't give money to anybody. If I want to help I'll do volunteer work or do something for charity, but giving away money is not my thing.
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do you do volunteer work/charity?
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it's something I'm considering of doing lately
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i built a house for habitat for humanity and im probably going to do it again this year, it's a Good Thing
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i normally give money when i am in a good mood. i do it coz i wanna live by 'one good deed a day'. but there are times when i just cant care for them...does that make me a bad person?