Gaming World Forums
General Category => Technology and Programming => Topic started by: Rajew on July 26, 2010, 02:44:03 am
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http://openpandora.org/index.php
basically it's a handheld computer, around the size of a ds, and it's made for gaming. Sounds pretty dumb at first, because there is no way it can be as powerful as a real computer, etc BUT it has a built in gamepad and a real operating system, making it ideal for mobile emulating (in fact, they advertise it as emulating snes games and the like, and I've seen videos of it doing super mario 64!) + touch screen, meaning if you could deal with how INCREDIBLY SMALL everything is, you could emulate ds games.
What really interests me about it is that it's running a full operating system + has a keyboard, so I could program on-the-go. I don't know about you guys (although I'm fairly positive I'm the only one who thinks like this), but I am finding myself wanting to program on long car rides or when I'm otherwise isolated from my computer and think netbooks are TOO BIG. This pocket-sized wonder appears to be exactly what I'm looking for in that regard.
So, anyone a little more tech savvy than me notice anything OBVIOUSLY WRONG about this? I think throwing down 350$ for the ability to program ANYWHERE is a pretty good deal, but the processor speed + screen size may hamper that. If I do get this, I'm probably gonna wait until 2nd or 3rd gen (hoping the price comes down and/or the specs are boosted a little by then)
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Velfarre thinks it sucks.
You're not going to use microsoft visual studio 2008 on this.
I guess I like it but it should be mass manufactured in China and cost 30$
Anyway I think of it as a complicated calculator you could use to calculate anything
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Velfarre thinks it sucks.
well ms. vellfire can come in here and say that herself methinks :hmm:
are you guys talking about this on irc? cause you should be talking about it here, where I can also obtain this valuable informations... someone post chat logs plz xD
You're not going to use microsoft visual studio 2008 on this.
obviously not, even if I have to use pandora's development kit it's better than getting an idea in my head 12 hours away from a computer and forgetting it by the time I'm back to civilization. seriously if I get an idea to optimize my pathfinding it'll be gone in the next hour or so :fogetcry:
edit: also since it's on linux I could just use vim + gcc unless for some reason they strip these functionalities? also python comes with many linux distributions. In fact, I hate using Visual Studio anyways so this is an advantage if anything!
I guess I like it but it should be mass manufactured in China and cost 30$
that would be ideal, but it's a little powerful for that :sad:
Anyway I think of it as a complicated calculator you could use to calculate anything
you can access wolfram alpha....
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hmm.. too expensive
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you should call it OpenPandora in the title because Pandora is some well-known music service too, right? people might think it's that and skip over the topic
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I dunno, it looks neat but the whole game-centric handheld thing isn't too appealing to me. I'm thinking about getting a beagleboard (http://beagleboard.org/) when I have time and money to devote to monkeying around with computer hardware/software
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We talked about it quite a while ago. Basically I thought it was a waste of time because at that time, not only was there basically NO CHANCE OF GETTING ONE (not sure if this is still true I've not been on the open source handheld scene for a long time now) since more or less they had already sold way too many via preorders and people were several several batches away from ever hoping to get theirs, but also originally they were gonna be like $600. However it seems like they've changed a lot of that. It seems like the rest of my issues with it are things that other people probably won't care about, and so they're just reasons why I personally don't care about them and not reasons that would probably discourage anyone else. It's mostly that it's a tiny computer which isn't what I want from this sort of machine. I cannot imagine programming or anything like that being comfortable whatsoever on such a small device. But, at the same time, it's also too big for me to want to put in my pocket. Still, like I've said before about handhelds, I'm a girl so I've got way tighter pants than most of you dudes and therefore most handhelds don't fit in my pockets whatsoever, which makes them kind of annoying since part of the appeal is portability. If I'm going to have to carry something around with me, I might as well have the netbook. Again this probably isn't a problem for you!
Other than that I can't really say too much without using the device firsthand but to me the keyboard looks uncomfortable and having those little joystick controls doesn't really make gaming appeal any more, because it seems like you could easily be hitting other buttons since you have to reach over the D-pad and buttons to get to them. But maybe not, idk! I'd have to try one.
As a gaming platform, I didn't really see anything that I cared about the Pandora did that my Wiz doesn't do. It's more powerful, so iirc it can do PSX/N64 emulation (unless this has changed as I said I've been out of the loop on these things for a while now), but frankly I've never cared that much about emulating either of these in my pocket. The one thing the Wiz does that the Pandora doesn't though is fit in my pocket :|
So basically yeah there's a list of my problems with the Pandora (oh I forgot why would they keep this name Pandora was around before this thing got that much publicity so it's not like they didn't know, they slapped "Open" in front of it much later down the road). And guess what? It's probably stuff that nobody else is gonna have a problem with. Who knows? It's just not for me. The only reason I responded is because Inri brought me into it so THERE YA GO.
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it has been coming out in six months for like three years. if it does eventually release though i'll try developing for it since my flatmate ordered one.
if it has a stable hurd kernel maybe they will port duke nukem forever and earthbound 64.
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Vellfire is a girl?????
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Nah hero bash she's a gigantic hairy dude with biceps the size of your thighs and "cunt" tattooed across her forehead, knuckles and, well, everything else.
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I dunno, it looks neat but the whole game-centric handheld thing isn't too appealing to me. I'm thinking about getting a beagleboard (http://beagleboard.org/) when I have time and money to devote to monkeying around with computer hardware/software
this looks pretty cool. You could carry it around and if you ever need to use a computer but all they have is a monitor you just pull that thing out and whabam! but it doesn't seem like anything I'd use because I don't understand hardware!!
stuff
You are correct, I do wear loose pants with large pockets. Portability shouldn't be an issue for me. Also I agree with you on the nubs, they don't seem to be in key placement areas. You could still play many n64 games reasonably (iirc most of them used the dpad for completely optional things, like ocarina of time didn't even use it at all did it?) and it's still better than psp imho. but then again I wouldn't get this primarily as a gaming thing (even though that is what it is designed for)
PS: What is a Wiz? I did a quick search and I guess it's a kind of smartphone? You say it's more powerful... could I use that to mobile-y program? The keyboard doesn't seem that good for it but again there are very few options for programming on the move so convenience is a luxury at this point. Or is it like my phone (which has a perfect keyboard for it), and you can't really download apps besides DINER DASH and BUBBLE BUSTER?
If i could get linux on my phone... I'd vim my life away
video
I really like what I'm seeing in that video tbh. Apparently the nubs are better now but I didn't see any update on the sticky dpad or shoulder buttons. those should be fixed by the time I ever get one though.
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i don't think i could ever fit a handheld in any of my trouser pockets. it would be a squeeze getting into my jacket / coat pockets. guess if i buy a new handheld i should buy a new bag too. so much for portability
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it has been coming out in six months for like three years. if it does eventually release though i'll try developing for it since my flatmate ordered one.
if it has a stable hurd kernel maybe they will port duke nukem forever and earthbound 64.
wait, is the pandora still not out??? i was under the impression it finally was releasing. if it's still not out then this is a fucking farce of a device
PS: What is a Wiz? I did a quick search and I guess it's a kind of smartphone? You say it's more powerful... could I use that to mobile-y program? The keyboard doesn't seem that good for it but again there are very few options for programming on the move so convenience is a luxury at this point. Or is it like my phone (which has a perfect keyboard for it), and you can't really download apps besides DINER DASH and BUBBLE BUSTER?
the wiz isn't a phone it's a small portable handheld gaming device. idk if you found some other device with the same name or just didn't really read much about it, but here's the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X_Wiz). it has a few nongaming things too (i mean it plays videos and audio and there's some freeware apps people made but i wouldn't be replacing say my ipod touch with it for any of this sort of stuff). also you misread, i said that the pandora was more powerful. the wiz is mostly used for emulators. it'll emulate pretty much up to some REALLY simple psx stuff (monster rancher battle card for example, since it is mostly 2D still images, though i tried out dragon seed on it and although that game is awful, it ran okay surprisingly). i especially like it for scummvm games, i was surprised that it would run the 7th guest. i have a few vids of it if you want to see it in action (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=18578E3C3732EC99). i got it just because i wanted something small enough to fit in my pocket that i could dick around and play roms on, and that's what it's best at doing and that's all i wanted of it so i am incredibly happy with it. it sounds more like you want something more along the lines of a netbook than a gaming device though so you aren't going to want a wiz.
btw it looks like gph just announced a new gp2x handheld called the caanoo but it looks huge like their old handhelds and from what i just read it has internals very similar to the wiz so idk i guess that's just for the people who found the wiz too small????
edit: it looks like the pandora started shipping in may but they've only shipped like 600 of them. they require preorders to be paid in advance in order to cover their production costs. this whole thing feels really GROSS AND SKETCHY to me. paying $300+ upfront for a device that's already been delayed for years now? i may have had to wait an unexpected 6 months for my wiz due to delays, but at least i didn't have to pay for it until it shipped AND i...actually got it!
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oh then the wiz is nothing of what I want then :c
also, I guess the pandora is shipping. according to their site 600 of them have already been shipped, and another 4000 are in production. so it's out it is just not very widespread (yet??)
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it has been coming out in six months for like three years. if it does eventually release though i'll try developing for it since my flatmate ordered one.
if it has a stable hurd kernel maybe they will port duke nukem forever and earthbound 64.
this should be the next barkley-like project. A game that is like duke nukem forever combined with earthbound 64 combined with like every other vaporware that was full of speculation MARIO PAINT 64 and it's like just ridiculous speculation about how perfect the game would be and the game has this massive conspiracy storyline to it like Nintendo intentionally holds these games back like they're the videogame equivalent of the water engine and they'd be so perfect it would destroy the game(ing) industry and it's some metal gear shit where you are going into Nintendo's underground bunker to retrieve the prototype of the ultimate vaporware game
also put Ninja Gaiden RPG in there I could've sworn there was a Ninja Gaiden RPG for Nintendo or Gameboy growing up but then when I got older and was able to look it up on the internet Nintendo did a massive coverup it's like it never existed
also why did the intro to Super Mario RPG have this scene with the koopa wizard guy from Mario World and this scene never actually happens in the game I'm not sure if he's even a boss obviously they deleted this scene from the game because it would've been the greatest boss fight in videogame history
and the areas of the Big Shell you couldn't explore in MGS2. Oldman and Chinamen are there and are the best boss fights of all time even better than koopa wizard fightg
Edit: to kind of give an idea of the atmosphere it's like every sort of childhood rumor about secret games/modes/cheat codes gets creepy/somehow more obsessive and becomes some Da Vinci Code shit like in the game universe there is a group of gamer nerds who believes Duke Nukem Forever contains GNOSTIC SECRETS and the vatican/cia/illuminati is holding back the release of the game. It will also be even more convoluted storyline than that XZR 2 game somebody posted a while back and just string together random bits of history and create universe that could only exist in a videogame. Like Benjamin Franklin had plans for the ultimate videogame 200 years before they came out and Pythagoras was actually trying to design the perfect engine for a platform game with all that triangle nonsense
Edit: I really want to believe Hideo Kojima like UNDERSTANDS EVERYTHING now like is literally trolling/stringing his fans along and is perfectly aware of it. Like hey let me have an unreleased boss in Metal Gear Solid 2 where his name is a ethnic slur and would've basically controlled like another boss in the game anyway and/or had really unfun/overly complex boss fight mechanics. And I will make him mysterios enough blurry concept art so people will literally be clamoring to release special edition with this boss GIVE US CHINAMAN
Edit: As for the game cue dramatic trailer where somebody looks at dollar bill through special glasses and pyramid becomes mario face and latin text turns into "it's a me mario" TRUTH IS OUT THERE
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THE CIPHER IS UNDERNEATH THE TRUCK DUN DUN DUN
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THE CIPHER IS UNDERNEATH THE TRUCK DUN DUN DUN
*mew
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mewthree
pikablue
the other pokemon diamond
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the other pokemon diamond
telefang????? i need to finally beat that game. i am telefang #1 fan. god it has the best dialogue.
"it must be sedge!"
"come back later i'll show you funny things"
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if telefang is the one where you go into the 'electric tree' for some reason and it's kind of like pokemon but completely baffling and has a 'pokemon diamond' title screen then yes. i never found out what that game was. i have always held it as some kind of mystery video game from a parallel universe or something.
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if telefang is the one where you go into the 'electric tree' for some reason and it's kind of like pokemon but completely baffling and has a 'pokemon diamond' title screen then yes. i never found out what that game was. i have always held it as some kind of mystery video game from a parallel universe or something.
yes, the tree that takes you to the e-mon (electric monsters) world. it is pretty DISORIENTING to play, it like...doesn't lose that weirdo mystery when you play it. you just feel like you're playing video games in an alternate universe version of the 90s. you have to emulate it tho because the save function doesn't work, it just crashes the game. i actually found a copy of it for sale on ebay (as in, the 'pokemon diamond' version translated in english, not just regular japanese telefang). it was expensive though, but fuck i wanted to buy it even if playing it wasn't really doable.
i really like the idea of weird like...chinese bootleg games. there's an ebay seller that sells nothing but bootleg famicom games, if they ever have any that aren't a good $15+ i might buy one because to me these games have this horrible aesthetic that i love
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ok so for some reason this has been completely slept on in the states and probably europe and canada too but india just unveiled a rival to the ipad for 1500 rs. THATS $30!!
check out this link for some info on it;
http://www.touchtabletpc.us/india-unveils-30-tablet-pc-android-indias-ipad/
i had a better link when i first found this out, if i find it again ill edit this.
so at first they had a REALLY tough time finding a manufacturer, but if this goes through then it'll completely reshape the world of computers as we know it. 30 dollars. i dont know if i could even buy the components alone for that much. 2 gigs of ram??? ipad has 256 megs. idk man apples bloated prices could come back to bite it now.
but yeah it can do everything that pandora can at way under 10% the cost. its closer to a laptop than an ipad is actually. keyboard too :D and it uses extremely low wattage too so its cheap even on the electricity
DAMN thats all i gotta say im pretty psyched. like i probably wont get one cause i dont really need a portable computer but this is still exciting to witness!
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it's literally an android tablet with a resistive touch screen, what's so exciting about witnessing it? How is it reshaping the world of computers?
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that and shit like that normally comes out in its own country and is hard as fuck to buy elsewhere. remember that iphone clone that came out years and years ago??? tons of people wanted those but i know of NOBODY that ever found or got one. never read a single thing about it. if these things come out, they aren't really PURCHASABLE anywhere
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reshaping it by changing the pricing. like yeah the ipad is amazing but its price is a major turn off. maybe im just not a huge fan of apple. like i have an ipod but i think their computers are overpriced. what im saying is, look at what it comes with, and for $30. its crazy. even if the touch screen doesnt work super well, it comes with a keyboard and a usb port. you could probably get a mouse on it
but ive never heard of any iphone clone that people actually WANTED. just people buying ones they thought were iphones. ive never heard of anyone saying "hey check out this chinese iphone with an inoperable touch screen i love it." im not sure which clone youre talking about though you might be right and i may be out of touch with iphoners (lol)
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It was the Meizu M8. Took me forever to find because I just remembered it was called the M-something which is too hard to search for. But yeah, tons of magazines and websites were talking about how it was gonna be an iPhone killer due to its price. Everyone was talking about how they wanted these things (one magazine in particular did a huge article about it that I read but I don't remember which. Maybe Wired?) Did it ever even come out? I'm not sure. That's the problem. Even if the device is promising, you gotta deal with somewhat shoddy companies.
Which is the problem with things like OpenPandora and the Wiz and the Dingoo. Even if they could be great devices, the companies behind them can be pretty dang bad. I can only really speak about the Wiz but I can say for sure that even though the company behind it really legitimately seems to want to do well, they didn't start out in the gaming market, they were in the personal media player market. That means that they've made tons of VERY bad decisions (the reason the a/b/x/y buttons are laid out in the shape of a d-pad is because they actually wanted to have two d-pads, until someone finally told them that you'd never be able to hit two buttons simultaneously and nobody would buy this because of it). There's also problems with not being able to get repairs or parts or anything like this. Sure, for $30 it's almost a throwaway thing and go ahead but don't be surprised when you have Problems(tm).
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reshaping it by changing the pricing. like yeah the ipad is amazing but its price is a major turn off. maybe im just not a huge fan of apple. like i have an ipod but i think their computers are overpriced. what im saying is, look at what it comes with, and for $30. its crazy. even if the touch screen doesnt work super well, it comes with a keyboard and a usb port. you could probably get a mouse on it
but ive never heard of any iphone clone that people actually WANTED. just people buying ones they thought were iphones. ive never heard of anyone saying "hey check out this chinese iphone with an inoperable touch screen i love it." im not sure which clone youre talking about though you might be right and i may be out of touch with iphoners (lol)
The ipad/tablets really aren't amazing, they're just small embedded RISC platforms that are largely used for multimedia delivery at the moment. Considering that the software is free and most of the parts involved are off the shelf mass produced components, 30 dollars really isn't that unbelievable if you're making a whole bunch of them and not looking to make a profit(perhaps even subsidizing the costs as this is a government project).
Despite all the fanfare, I'm really skeptical about this massive push to throw computers at kids all the time as if it'll somehow magically make them more educated future pioneers of industry. Having grown up when they started really pushing the whole "we gotta have computers in every classroom!!!" really makes me a little jaded about the subject and I can't get excited about things like this. Subsidized laptops/tablets are almost at the bottom of the list of things that children need, people's priorities are really fucking backwards here and I think it has a lot to do with these prominent idealistic techno-fetishist hacks like Nicholas Negroponte getting way more money and attention than they deserve from technology industry.
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yes, the tree that takes you to the e-mon (electric monsters) world. it is pretty DISORIENTING to play, it like...doesn't lose that weirdo mystery when you play it. you just feel like you're playing video games in an alternate universe version of the 90s. you have to emulate it tho because the save function doesn't work, it just crashes the game. i actually found a copy of it for sale on ebay (as in, the 'pokemon diamond' version translated in english, not just regular japanese telefang). it was expensive though, but fuck i wanted to buy it even if playing it wasn't really doable.
i really like the idea of weird like...chinese bootleg games. there's an ebay seller that sells nothing but bootleg famicom games, if they ever have any that aren't a good $15+ i might buy one because to me these games have this horrible aesthetic that i love
the cover of 600 AD at 1:14 is seriously like the most haunting thing I've ever heard
oh yeah in related videos apparently there is a pirate game that is supposed to be Destiny of an Emperor 3 that actually looks pretty rad and done well somehow! It seriously looks like Final Fantasy VI for Genesis with a lot of Chinese people
also Nicholas Negroponte I heard this story about how a year after he did the OLPC thing it turned out all the schools had switched to Windows XP or whatever because everybody thought Linux sucked - like entire COUNTRIES hated Linux
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if it's still not out then this is a fucking farce of a device
Well they are four dudes developing, testing and repairing the device. It's understandable that it's taken them several years. It's not until now that they've gotten a small business together with external production partners helping out. They're currently in the process of producing the first actual test batch before the actual release and continuous production of the device. They've currently got 600 out of 4000 devices ready before the actual launch, and this stage involves a lot of testing and repairing so it will probably take them a good while before they can release the final product.
Anyway, I've been following this for years and I have been looking forward to it mainly because it will give me an excuse/reason to try older games I haven't had the time/chance to play, as well as the ability to port linux applications to the system. I think $350 is a very reasonable price tag for a system that's been completely designed by handheld users, and which purpose is to be superior to every other handheld on the market in most regards.
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Well they are four dudes developing, testing and repairing the device. It's understandable that it's taken them several years. It's not until now that they've gotten a small business together with external production partners helping out. They're currently in the process of producing the first actual test batch before the actual release and continuous production of the device. They've currently got 600 out of 4000 devices ready before the actual launch, and this stage involves a lot of testing and repairing so it will probably take them a good while before they can release the final product.
I don't think it's fair to take $300+ preorders on a product you delay for YEARS.
Of course they had to delay it because they're so small, but fuck after a few times maybe you should extend that theoretical release date to something a BIT farther in the future instead of constantly changing it.
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Well, it is also not very smart to preorder a system before it is barely even in alpha stage, and from a development standpoint I can understand the system being postponed.
I'm pretty sure you have the legal right to demand your money back though, and I'm sure they'd comply.
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I just checked the gp32x forums a minute ago (idk if they're the biggest community for these handhelds or not but it seems like most of the main developers for them hang out there). From what I'm reading, it seems like a LOT of the developers aren't too pleased about this. Even the ones with really early Pandora devkits haven't felt like it was even worth developing anything for it because so many people are losing interest due to it feeling like they're never going to get a device. Even if it does start shipping this fall, it'll only be a small number of units, compared to the large number of people who want them. Apparently it's been THREE years since they started accepting preorders, so some people have been waiting this long to get theirs.
The thing is, if they delay this thing too much longer, someone could easily come out with a similar device that's even better. I'm actually kind of surprised someone HASN'T yet.
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The OpenPandora is actually based in the GP32X community and was developed through suggestions from its members if I recall correctly. I agree that it is a problem that the Pandora is becoming outdated on a yearly basis and it definintely doesn't carry the same impact as it did when it was announced, but I think that the design is solid enough to allow it to compete with current gen handhelds because it was sort of designed to fix all the design and functionality flaws that major game companies frequently seem to incorporate in their devices.
The chance of Nintendo or Sony suddenly releasing a completely flawless device is small and I think the Pandora is still going to gain a lot of popularity. People are still talking about it on a pretty frequent basis so I do think it still carries a lot of market value - as long as they try to get it released as soon as possible.
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Who said it had to be Sony or Nintendo? No reason some computer manufacturer couldn't release a tiny handheld computer with some gaming controls added in. As for people talking about it on a frequent basis, this topic is the first I've seen from it in a long time outside of actual Pandora forums, whereas three years ago it was a different story. Maybe I'm just not seeing it though but it definitely has declined in interest. If they don't get this thing out soon and in big numbers, they could be in some pretty big trouble.
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you should call it OpenPandora in the title because Pandora is some well-known music service too, right? people might think it's that and skip over the topic
OPENPANDORA is also the name of the pandora/Tor setup to workaround the Ip restriction, also being downloaded to computer so a pop up radio shows on desktop, not browser!
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also Nicholas Negroponte I heard this story about how a year after he did the OLPC thing it turned out all the schools had switched to Windows XP or whatever because everybody thought Linux sucked - like entire COUNTRIES hated Linux
Some countries did ask specifically for Windows XP, which raises the question of whether they were motivated by reasons of a technical or financial nature (remember, Linux OLPC was already stable at that point). The fact that Intel has long been associated with anti-competitive campaigns along with Microsoft didn't exactly help. Then at some point Negroponte decided to just can the whole Linux thing: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9938882-16.html
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There seems to be a fair few of these type of handhelds and to be honest i'd rarther have this:
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i18.photobucket.com/albums/b116/c0nfu53d/Dingux.webp)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingoo it is cheaper runs linux as well as it's native µC/OS-II OS and is open source like pandora, prob not nearly as powerful but I'd only use it for emulation anyway, so w/e
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I want a pointless linux installation that instantly kernel panics on everything I own.
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Yeah, the Dingoo is the closest competitor to the Wiz in terms of size, performance and price. The only real problem I remembered with the Dingoo was that you couldn't hit Y and B at the same time but I think this was fixed in some firmware. The big pro with the Dingoo is that it's cheaper than the Wiz, but the drawback is that it doesn't have a touchscreen like the Wiz does which is a big deal if you want to play ScummVM or Dosbox games. If you don't though, the Dingoo could be better due to the price (I've not used one so I can't really say but Dingoo users seemed to be pretty happy with it). Otherwise the Wiz and Dingoo are pretty dang similar, just depends on your priorities. When it comes to something small you can put in your pocket and play roms on, either one would be better than the Pandora (unless you really REALLY want full PSX and N64 emulation). They're far cheaper and the best part is they actually exist and you can go buy them right this minute.
edit: also the Wiz has more support from developers so if you're into homebrew stuff (and there's a handful of pretty good homebrew games for the Wiz) the Wiz is probably better, but if you only want roms then it doesn't matter. However that might also affect the development of emulators, there could be a more obscure system (like the Wonderswan) that doesn't have an emulator for the Dingoo but like I said I've not used the Dingoo so I'm not sure about this. I just know that on the main site with all the games and apps for these things the Wiz has a bit more available.