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Happy new salt everyone. Also this is the new WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND topic.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/wedemandhtml.com/tmp/chill_your_head.gif)
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I was thinking of making a suggesstion in the feedback forums about this. awesome.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/markmalazarte.com/lollerskates.gif)
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@Farren: I'm a Filipino (only one in here), if you need help with tagalog I could help. I'm fairly fluent with most of the dialects as well as I was from the province.
@DietCoke: Yea, it sounds good isn't it. We got that from years of colonialism from various countries around the world.
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If we work with more of them or I end up in the area and start picking it up again I might ask you for help dude. But I don't know any filipeno's otherwise so it wouldn't be practical atm. I might need to learn some portugese we're supposed to be going to work over there for five years later this year after we go get my ship back.
The only phrase I can remember right now sounds like: NAI TANAKA NAI or something like that and they told me it means "whats up dude". Hardy my buddy told me to keep saying it to his older cousin Nick who is like 27 but looks like he's 15 in a really high pitched voice. So it could have meant something else...
And then we had little nestor and old nestor. Little nestor was hardy, nick, and little nestor's uncle and looked like a chubby mister miyagi. He tried to pull his dick out when a white dude I worked with told him that all asians have small peckers. Would do 150 crunches every day trying to work off his beer belly and would call me "phawen". Damn I miss those guys.
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I had a pot roast for dinner. pot roasts forever
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/rebflag.gif)
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happy nude year! i hope 2012 kills us all
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happy new barf year is more like it. I'm gonna puke.
enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGuaq80x3mQ
I feel embarrassed just having watched that video. idk how people were riled up about the sexism and violence in duke nukem forever when shit like this exists. I don't actually know anything about the new duke nukem, but I don't know how it could be as bad as this. this is dead serious, the only humor being "lol he can really kill that guy with epic graphic brutality/lol he can really fuck 10 of those dumb whores at the same time like a boss and they love it and he doesn't even need to pay, like 300 shoulda been if it hadn't been censored for the pussies". even the new mortal kombat has that harvester vibe going on, though it still manages to look like a pretty awful game (that kratos guy is in it too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aOEk522PDM
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n513/mecha-neko/TheCatacombAbyss3D/CatacombAbyss3D_4.png)
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^This is actually what God of War should have been like. I love The Making of God of War. It sums up all of my opinions about the games industry. Character design: KRATOS IS BRUTAL. Level design: HOW I PLACE ENEMIES IS I PLACE THEM EVERYWHERE.
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I was panning to go out or something but I've fund myself vegged out in front of the computer as usual. I guess I'll give it a try.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n513/mecha-neko/Gloom3/Gloom_3_Amiga_07.png)
edit: hahaaaa i just want to post all the pics from superadventures
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/1.bp.blogspot.com/-OKo77n3NMlo/TeEmDh6smwI/AAAAAAAAFn0/r2IJ0x0eCGA/s1600/Veil_of_Darkness_DOS_02.gif)
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2012 is so exceptionally boring i registered an account on saltw.
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HAPPY NEW YEAR.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/lwYsx.gif)
@Farren: haha. that doesn't sound like tagalog at all. but yea my father was a seaman for severl years and he told stories and i believe most of us get along pretty well with other nationalities.
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so hero bash is like reddit and facebook and memes and all sorts of shit i guess. IT'S LIKE 2007 ALL OVER AGAIN.
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except we don't have a homepage... oops.
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except we don't have a homepage... oops.
the post 9/11 world is a difficult one.
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so hero bash is like reddit and facebook and memes and all sorts of shit i guess. IT'S LIKE 2007 ALL OVER AGAIN.
the post 9/11 world is a difficult one.
yeah, we don't do this shit anymore dude. Its 2012 and we're all in our 20s so we try to act like it.
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ho boy
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but it's the internet...
anyway, this is a nice vid. 'Zeitgeist 2011. Year in Review' (I hat the use of zeitgeist remind me of te series of those dumb conspiracy vids)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAIEamakLoY
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I wouldn't even mind that stuff if it had the level of self awareness or irony of exploitation cinema. But thing is that particularly in america, this kind of thing is taken at face value these days, and so it's made in such a sterile po-faced way.
I have a softspot for the cheap and nasty stuff, Trashy Video Nasties or Sleazy sexploitation,(I'm downloading a massive torrent of Russ Meyer films, eek!). because deep down it knows it's hideously dumb and so bases it's whole approach on finding the best way to be dumb.
A recent japanese movie, Big Tits Zombies, is a really great b-movie about strippers and zombies. It's dumb, camp, funny and over the top. Compare it to say, Sucker Punch which is just dumb, characterless, bland, generic and really fucking creepy how much of a fucking pedo zack snyder is!! Modern violent games like God of War, Mortal Kombat and such are like Sucker Punch in that they try and add a sheen of professionalism on something that is just garbage, and that makes it so much worse. By taking such things seriously, it ends up being far more sleazy, sexist and disturbing than the cheap trashy alternative.
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Machete and both Cranks are movies that do what you're talking about kaworu. I'm not sure about videogames though.
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"zeitgeist" is german for "time ghost"
i think that one Bulletstorm game and something called Lollipop Chainsaw were deliberate attempts to make something campy and over-the-top but the mainstream of ultraviolent pulp videogames is already so ridiculous that any attempt at irony just gets absorbed immediately into the ordinary state of affairs. wasn't this what Duke Nukem started off as before it became the Bro Grail. possibly the same with Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil and whatever else.
there's the Earth Defense Force series i guess which is just about blowing up monstrous spiders + buildings.
anyway happe new year everyone...!
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42127055/o9BVd.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42127055/tumblr_lntf7z9rib1qagu0no1_400.png)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvMXhE6YzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvMXhE6YzM)
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those rhythm boxes in mother 3 were so annoying. i thought i was getting an item ):
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i think that one Bulletstorm game and something called Lollipop Chainsaw were deliberate attempts to make something campy and over-the-top but the mainstream of ultraviolent pulp videogames is already so ridiculous that any attempt at irony just gets absorbed immediately into the ordinary state of affairs. wasn't this what Duke Nukem started off as before it became the Bro Grail. possibly the same with Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil and whatever else.
there's the Earth Defense Force series i guess which is just about blowing up monstrous spiders + buildings.
I assume everyone already knows about harvester but I'll link it anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bduOMImSzjM&feature=watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Mzaimi0bY&feature=related
and yeah, mortal kombat is like a half-hearted attempt at creating something over-the-top and I guess ironic, but it really fails at this pretty badly
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SO I was listening to This Version (http://youtu.be/HG5hzh9dpjw)of Pon POn PON and my hard-rock loving housemate came down and asked me to turn it down as he could hear it over the TV! :D
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I started listening to My Bloody Valentine because I was trying to find more shoegaze stuff similar to The Verve. It wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Where do I go from here?
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I started listening to My Bloody Valentine because I was trying to find more shoegaze stuff similar to The Verve. It wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Where do I go from here?
i love mbv. slowdive, jesus and mary chain, chapterhouse, ride, lush, stuff like that!
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Well to be fair I haven't given their (two?) studio albums a full listen-through yet so I should probably do that. I'll check out those other ones you mentioned too.
Edit: Urban Hymns is my favorite album ever, so I'm trying to find stuff closer to that. Bittersweet Symphony is great and all but my favorite tracks are actually Sonnet, The Drugs Don't Work and One Day.
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Well to be fair I haven't given their (two?) studio albums a full listen-through yet so I should probably do that. I'll check out those other ones you mentioned too.
Edit: Urban Hymns is my favorite album ever, so I'm trying to find stuff closer to that. Bittersweet Symphony is great and all but my favorite tracks are actually Sonnet, The Drugs Don't Work and One Day.
oh dude go and listen to loveless and dont come back until then!!!
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Happy New Salt!
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(this is not a discussion on racism anymore) (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83154.0)
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/omgghana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Happyblackman.jpeg)
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gargonherd linked me to a thing about joybubbles (famous "phreak" (i hate portmanteaus too)) and it's pretty fascinating. i've always loved reading about cool people with very esoteric but inherently interesting skills or talents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joybubbles
he is a super cool guy
this got moved over to the bootstraps thread which is kind of funny except that thing is now in 7 pages
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I wish my Android phone's notification LED blinked more often when there was a notification pending. I have to stare at it for like 5 seconds straight if I want to be sure that it's not going to blink. Maybe Ice Cream Sandwich will fix this?
#firstworldproblems
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rsi got to the point where I can't type anymore w/o it hurting, despite barely using the computer at all. gonna take a postin break
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hello sw
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rsi got to the point where I can't type anymore w/o it hurting, despite barely using the computer at all. gonna take a postin break
the hell is a rsi?
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the hell is a rsi?
Never thought I'd have to use this super lame thing but http://bit.ly/x68DWW
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hahaha that black guy jpeg points to a Ghana news site why would Ghana people name it happyblackman.jpg
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Never thought I'd have to use this super lame thing but http://bit.ly/x68DWW
suck my nuts
if you're gonna post an abbreviation for some obscure medical condition without saying shit else and expecting me to go google it then what the hell point is there in even mentioning it?
It is or is like carpel tunnel? if it is I got the same thing then. I gotta get surgery, they gave me corrective bracers but they just keep my hands from shittin out and not working. I forgot to wear em for a night two weeks ago and my left hand went limp.
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if you're gonna post an abbreviation for some obscure medical condition without saying shit else and expecting me to go google it then what the hell point is there in even mentioning it?
It's one of the most well known fears pertaining to long-term computer use. There was a genuine fear about it similar to earlier views that using a computer for more than a few hours at a time would ruin your eyes. Still is, actually.
Even if you don't know what it is you could just Google it. That's what it's for. Though you should really know it if you've got CTS.
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No, I do have carpel tunnel syndrome. I had to go to a neurologist who told me I had it but its mild right now. He stuck some electrobe needle things on my wrists and did some pressure tests. I also got a MRI and have a herniated disk in my neck too but I think thats going away.
My carpel tunnel is a strange case though cus its in both wrists evenly and it started/developed at work. My work doesn't really consist of the same repetitive movements like typing on a computer or working on an assembly line. But I do use my hands a whole lot, usually twisting and turning shit. They actually locked up and I couldn't use them for like an hour and thats why I had to go home. I had no idea what it was until it got up to that point.
I think I know how I got it though. Like I said in that medical thread I think I have ADHD and its causing me to work myself to injury. I don't do it all the time only when I feel I have to work harder to get something done or am around lazy ass motherfuckers (alot of the time). I got a high tolerance for pain and I don't feel the onset of the injury until it fucks me up and then its too late. I did the same kind of thing about a year ago but I pulled a muscle inside of my abdomen. I couldn't really tell what was wrong with me at first because I'd just have alot of energy out here and then go home and smoke myself to some level of normalcy. Thats why I'd smoke weed and spice all the time to help me calm down and slow my brain down (I think way too much out here about everything over and over again). I'm gonna try to see a personal physician though about it. I think I can tell my neurologist what I feel is the problem but my company and insurance is paying him to treat me and call to check up on whats goin on. So if I told him I smoked myself stupid everytime I got home so I could think on a normal level and need medication to mediate myself it might cause problems.
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I think you need to see a psychiatrist regarding ADHD.
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yeah I was trying to figure that out. A guy on here is kind of like me and has adhd and he said he got prescribed adderal and had to see both. I don't have a problem focusing though. I focus on many many things and handle it pretty well, my problem is the hyperactive part.
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it's like CT but in my whole arm and shoulder. and I used an abbreviation bc I'm only typing w one hand u ass
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I recently got an adult adhd diagnosis, it was mostly to get a prescription for amphetamine salts tho.
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I had CT( it hink) one time on my senior year in high school. I always wake up with both pinkies numb and all the way to the elbow(sometimes also happens wen I'm in a prolonged time in front of pc). I have no idea why this happens and it's hard to make it 'go away'. Eventually I tried sleeping with straight arms lying straight so I won't (what's the term) sleep on it or put weight under other body parts. lol. it worked.
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I recently got an adult adhd diagnosis, it was mostly to get a prescription for amphetamine salts tho.
which did you go to? A psychiatrist or physician?
Its not like I want to take some pills or whatever all the time because the ones they're gonna give me are probably the kind I don't like taking anyways. But I honestly think I need something because I get worked up sometimes when I know someone is undefensibly being a dick to me and have trouble controlling myself, with that and when I work sometimes. So I could either end up permenantly damaged or locked up for jumping on some old salty asshole out here.
it's like CT but in my whole arm and shoulder. and I used an abbreviation bc I'm only typing w one hand u ass
yeah I get it up to my elbow alot of the time too. The main problem I have is when my hands stop working because of it though. I can hardly even tell its there. Like I said I got a high tolerance for pain, I can't even really feel it like it hurts the only reason I can tell its still there sometimes is because it doesn't feel right like an uncomfort. Not because it actually hurts.
It was actually harder for the doctor to figure out exactly how severe I had it because of this. He said its just mild but I dunno man I was home a week before I got to see him and it pretty much got to the point to where I can barely feel it in like a night or two. I literally could not grip or use either of my hands the morning I left though.
The corrective bracers he gave me are falling apart though, when I wash them the stitching is coming loose and I dunno if they'll last long enough for me to finish out here. If they don't I'll just wait till I can't work anymore and get put back on disability till the surgery or whatever. I'll prolly need it anyways.
I slept on my shoulder last week and when I woke up it hurt like a motherfucker and I thought I broke my arm in my sleep. I think thats just one incident of me doing that though because it hasn't happened again.
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which did you go to? A psychiatrist or physician?
first was my general doc, then i got referred to a psych for inattentiveness. my mind wanders often which makes it tedious for me to read which i do a lot of. i don't really eat them often but when i do they help me focus pretty damn well.
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yeah I got to get a personal doctor when I get home and talk to him about it and see what he says first I think. Dude told me it might be hard to get prescribed anything because I don't already have my own doc but whatever if I got a problem and I'm paying the guy he should fix it right?
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http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/travel/45-places-to-go-in-2012.html?pagewanted=all
come to birmingham: better than space
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I recently got an adult adhd diagnosis, it was mostly to get a prescription for amphetamine salts tho.
yikes, well at least you've got a control over it. maybe you want to hook up with anti-agin/functional medicine as maybe your healthproblems are a sympton of something else (hypothyroidism? methylation or poryluria or something similiar) but i can't really comment otherwise since idk what that your focus medicine is exactly. idk anything about your lab values either.
but there are people out there that cured their hyperanxiety and depression with supplementing just B6 vitamin and zinc (pyroluria) and welp most of medicine doesn't know or is against stuff like this. hypothyroidism causes anxiety depression fatigue and brainfog too so lol.
edit like this isn't doktor martini stuff, this is r.e.a.l as it gets with anatomy. medicine/health is bizarre and still largely unknown/controversial.
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Today a mexican rigger had a heart attack (or sever chest pains) and I had to do HLO again so he could get a medivac.
And then after that I went and sat down waiting till about 4:40 to practice navigating the ship and fell asleep. Good day of work, except for the rigger I liked that guy I hope he's alright. Friggin' mexican pilots are assholes though. Everytime we have a helocopter coming they tell us the wrong time IE: the other day they told us about 5:30 which turned into 6:30 and today 20 minutes at 8:30 am for a guy suffering a heart attack turned into 11:30 that ended up to after 12. I'm so glad we never use helicopters except for emergencies.
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Huh, looks like amphetamine salts are class B drugs in the UK. I thought maybe there would be some equivalent here and started hoping I could maybe go get some the next time I need to get some use out of my fucked head but the UK says no way.
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controlled substances are still avaliable via prescription. I don't know about that one, but some of my painkillers last year have been class C and B, and my dad's on stuff like morphine which is class A. Though obviously if you go asking for them specifically, there's no chance of getting them as you'll sound like a druggie.
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http://www.muar.ru/ve/2003/moscow/index_e.htm
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yikes, well at least you've got a control over it. maybe you want to hook up with anti-agin/functional medicine as maybe your healthproblems are a sympton of something else (hypothyroidism? methylation or poryluria or something similiar) but i can't really comment otherwise since idk what that your focus medicine is exactly. idk anything about your lab values either.
but there are people out there that cured their hyperanxiety and depression with supplementing just B6 vitamin and zinc (pyroluria) and welp most of medicine doesn't know or is against stuff like this. hypothyroidism causes anxiety depression fatigue and brainfog too so lol.
edit like this isn't doktor martini stuff, this is r.e.a.l as it gets with anatomy. medicine/health is bizarre and still largely unknown/controversial.
they generally do blood work before dishing out a prescriptions to check for thyroid problems
i eat a multivitamin+fish oil every day, eat well, and get plenty of exercise so i don't really think it's anything other than me being an absent minded neurotic who benefits from a lil speed every once in a while to get shit done
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bonzy what is that about anxiety? I take a fish oil multi now but it doesn't have zinc. I'm depressed/brainfog too.
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I exercise and eat well and drink lots of water. I never worry about limiting calories because I lose weight extremely easily and the only way I ever gain is by working out. rarely drink or do any drug, never smoke
dok people (mkk became one) wanna find some miracle diet but not have to exercise at all. mkk was trying the "paleolithic diet", which is eating high fat, lots of meat and few sugars (based upon the "natural" fantasy and a total misunderstanding of caveman diets, which typically consisted far more of fruits, nuts and berries than meats), tho didn't exercise much/at all. you really cannot emphasize the importance of exercise enough
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probably. to their credit both mkk and dok weren't adults when they said those things and I have no idea if they still believe them
the idea of looking to earlier, more "innocent" or "natural" humans has existed throughout history tho, with the biggest booms being around the time of western industrialization, wwI, wwII and the atomic bomb (lead to modern environmentalism), and I guess the internet. whenever people start to perceive humans as destroyers of the planet/other humans you apparently get a retaliation that manifests itself in various forms. eg you can clearly observe these trends just by studying the history of landscapes and gardens, from stowe to olmsted to jekyll to steele to halprin
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if you have problems with depression/brainfog/can't focus/etc your solution may be as easy as a simple lifestyle change and exercising and eating better. the absolute bare minimum would be to do at least 30 mins of exercise a day and don't ever drink soda ever (ideally you should never get any calories from liquids ever). worth a try. better than taking fucking meth pills. pills wont give you sixpack abs and a booster shot to your selfesteem.
That 'no calories from liquids' sounds like bullshit, what about milk/soymilk and stuff like fruit juice? Those are pretty important things to have in your diet and generally have a good amount of calories in them.
IDK I eat really well, generally have my shit together and hit the gym several times a week but there's really nothin' like an occasional 5mg of that sweet methylphenidate
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Yeah I'm actually really healthy, at one of my last physicals my heart rate was slower than average and the doc told me thats a sign of a heart pumping blood more efficiently (which is a sign of really good health). I work 12 hrs a day physical labor and then I liftweights and box for cardio (its way better than running imo) but with all the walking around the deck and up/down stairs I prolly get in atleast a couple miles every day before I even get off work. I can't hit a bag right now so I go to the helo-deck and shadow box. I don't know anything about fish oil but I take multivitamins and started drinking weigh protein everyday to help me gain muscles because I got to a point where I couldn't put much more on, on my own.
The only real depression I get is from outside influences and my brain overworking on them really. But the main problem I'm having is with chilling the fuck out and mediating myself because I think if I don't do that I'm gonna pull or break something else.
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i used to take vitamins and B12 pills, but i've been told mulivitamins are bullshit so idk.
did this person tell you that multivitamins were bullshit, or just vitamins all together? multivitamins are ultimately kinda crappy when it comes right down to it, but that's really only in comparison to specific nutritional supplements, which seem to have a more observable physical effect when taken. vitamins and supplements are extraordinarily useful if you just aren't able to get everything you need from your diet. from the way you characterize your current lifestyle, it doesn't sound like you probably have a particular need for any of that, i'm just saying.
actually i mention this because it may have been me that told you that multivitamins are bullshit, and they aren't if you don't have the means/interest/time/whatever to thoroughly research nutrition and go out and buy 25 bottles of vitamins and shit.
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the no calories from liquids is really more if you're trying to get into really good shape. its not necessarily something that you need to stick with permanently.
when i first started working out I drank a weight gainer shake that had about a thousand calories in a single serving
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Reminds me of these sort of infographic. Not sure how accurate it is:
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/Kxa7P.png)
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i need to change my diet, my skin is really bad at the moment and i feel lousy a lot. smoking too much and just eating junk!! haven't been looking after myself at all
espernet is down or at least it is for me!
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yeah looks like it's having some problems
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big netsplit, should be working okay now
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I wondered about that, I was just full of PANIC when it was down. Where else will I go to share embarrassing truths about my life?!?!
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My internet's real patchy lately - I will probably be back on IRC in 3-6 months!
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i need to change my diet, my skin is really bad at the moment and i feel lousy a lot. smoking too much and just eating junk!! haven't been looking after myself at all
espernet is down or at least it is for me!
The problem is right in front of you!
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yeah it's p. clear. not enough irc
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As somebody who took a multi-vitamin his whole life to attempt make up for numerous deficiencies, I can say the only difference I've ever noticed when taking them is that my chest hurts on the left side. That's it.
Not one other single notable difference. Took 'em for years, don't anymore and I feel the same as I ever have - still eat relatively the same. I'm sure there's a placebo effect of sorts, and probably a bunch of small benefits that I was unaware of, but besides that I certainly never felt healthier on them.
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that's your heart exploding. sorry to break this to you pal. coronary explosion is a known side effect.
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is that why i was declared legally dead 4 years ago.....
that finally makes sense
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i just didn't have the heart to tell you !! ho ho ho !!
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well i guess you don't need a heart to enjoy whip-like wit because that joke got a hearty laugh out of this guy
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i'm glad i gave a gloomy djinni one last laugh
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I feel a bit mad at myself because I kinda just insulted a chat mate. I said I wasn't attracted to him 'cause he had a fat face-he'd given me the impression he was a football player- but I really wish I'd used more tact. I'm not usually such an SOB. Of course he logged off immediately .. . . :-[ :(
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yeah that sounds pretty rude man!
I can say the only difference I've ever noticed when taking them is that my chest hurts on the left side.
heartburn? I'm a heartburn professional by this point. it can feel like it's coming from different parts of your chest, each having a different sensation of pain depending upon which peptic ulcer it's aggravating
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Yeah I was outta control.
it wasn't you that told me. you were always pro-vitamin supplements i think. and i'm not saying i even agree that they're bullshit, i just kinda lost faith in them and didn't know what to believe anymore so i sorta stopped taking them.
Just make certain you eat lots of fruit and vegetables then. From my understanding you usually need supplements only if you're not eating healthy. And earl, I'm sorry to hear you have lots of heartburn-could it be reflux?
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And earl, I'm sorry to hear you have lots of heartburn-could it be reflux?
yeah it is. no one's sure what's causing it or how to treat it. right now I just eat a lot of stuff with tumeric and avoid acidic foods (all the best foods are acidic)
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Aren't ALL foods to a degree acidic? Like... I don't think there is any foods that would be considered a base.
Maybe I'm wrong I don't remember chemistry very well.
EDIT: NVM I'm stupid. looked it up.
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heartburn is just the sensation, so reflux/gerd can cause heartburn. it can also be caused by other stuff tho. I've had gerd and ulcers in the stomach and duodenum. I'm a little skeptical of kelp bc of the method by which it supposedly works, and bc I can't afford to lose any more weight (main reason people use kelp supp.) I'm on one med that actually inhibits acid production, and I also eat a ton of tums. I hope it works before the walls of my gut are corroded away!!
warp: I meant especially acidic foods, like tomatoes and oranges
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i meant to post a bigger post about nutrition/health but maybe i'll do it a little later. stay tuned...also thanks for that graph herobash hell yeah! you have to remember that that graph is really just scientific evidence or rather scientific consensus on those particulary nutritions. a lot of those stuff that are at the bottom end at the graph are good.
also waitwaitwait, you don't want to eat kelp because it leads to lose of weight? can you elaborate how that happens and where did you hear this
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The end of the world.
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i meant to post a bigger post about nutrition/health but maybe i'll do it a little later. stay tuned...also thanks for that graph herobash hell yeah! you have to remember that that graph is really just scientific evidence or rather scientific consensus on those particulary nutritions. a lot of those stuff that are at the bottom end at the graph are good.
also waitwaitwait, you don't want to eat kelp because it leads to lose of weight? can you elaborate how that happens and where did you hear this
infographics generally only serve to spread misinformation unfortunately
not eat kelp, take kelp supplements. something about decreasing the absorption of fat. idk if it's true or not but they also gave me diarrhea so
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infographics generally only serve to spread misinformation unfortunately
Marketing is lies, design is truth. Except for infographics, they're lies too.
Also today wolfpupy commented "cool" on a random japanpic I uploaded on Facebook. *fangirl swoon*
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you should tell her you think she's cool and then ask for some Djibouti
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(http://www.bcfc.com/javaImages/61/5b/0,,10412~10378081,00.jpg)
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i put my home page as x (http://www.ludamix.com/apps/siontracker/)
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@Terrorantula: You're a girl????
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Marketing is lies, design is truth. Except for infographics, they're lies too.
lame. is that how it's gonna be
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lame. is that how it's gonna be
Yes. They're very organized lies though.
Nah, I'm just joshin' ya.
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posts about dreams are always awful but i wanted to get this one down... the dream was structured as a film / tv series i was watching about adolf hitler... it was pitched as this sort of revamp of his early life "before he became famous", kind of like star wars iii... the film starts off focusing on his wife (no names are given throughout, an artsy touch) as she tries to manage her job as a shopgirl in a department store with taking care of their twin sons and trying to organise the house for the big meeting of german officials which will take place that night... however her husband is nowhere to be seen... he's missing but noone seems anything more than vaguely irritated by this so the impression we get is that he's a pretty meagre, spineless guy, a pest... eva(?)'s boss at the department store is played by george costanza's boss from Seinfeld who always sits with his back to the camera... here he breaks with this tradition, yet his face remains vague... from elliptical conversations we gather that the twins have also gone missing, and the boss (who is stern yet kindly) puts his full resources into finding them again... teams are sent out...
meanwhile german officials are gathering at the home and waiting angrily for hitler to appear as eva distributes the finger foods... where could he be? at this moment, the film cuts to an old-time ambulance tearing through the city before stopping to place a totally shrouded, supine figure onto a stretcher and then into the ambulance... the stretcher is carried hastily through the corridors of the department store... it is placed in the office of the boss. we cut to a closeup of his face and see immediately that it is just undersized enough in relation to his hulking body to be uneasy looking...
the attendents pull back the sheet...
inside is adolf hitler as retconned as a beautiful anorexic teenager of indeterminate gender with shoulder-length red-brown hair, a dreamy expression and an undefined brittle-bone disease which may atcually be sclerosis. he is wan yet glamourous and lays staring blandly at the ceiling throughout... he is naked yet his genitals remain ambiguous... he has no moustache or any other hair on his body...
the boss is furious and asks the ambulance attendants why they couldn't have found the twins instead of this bozo.. he goes on and on about his total contempt for the figure before him... calling him a real puny specimen of humanity, a subhuman, a despicable wretch... hitler shows no reaction to the insults but is writhing slowly on the stretcher, contorting his long & skeletal limbs into a variety of upsetting and unnatural positions...
i remember thinking oh jesus, no, this is how they're foreshadowing / psychologising the holocaust, oh god, oh no in total horror before i woke up...
thats my dream...
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i have a dream journal should i start a topic about it
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thats pretty awesome dude you should make a short film about that.
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1138138192 = 1138138 * 192 + 113 * 8138192
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that's a good dream catamites. costanza's boss is george steinbrenner, played by larry david. I actually had my first vivid dream in ages the other night and it was pretty good but I'm having trouble verbalizing it
Yes. They're very organized lies though.
Nah, I'm just joshin' ya.
they don't intend to misinform (obviously, their purpose is the opposite), but often they do esp. with the health-related ones. something to do with simplifying the information probably. for instance this one http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/sitting-kills/ apparently makes a provocative statement about the dangers of sitting too much, but on closer examination, is based upon a weak correlation, and makes some poorly-thought-out and sometimes unhealthy suggestions (eg "take the extra step", which doesn't actually fit into the infographic and suggests you give yourself an RSI/carpal tunnel and acid reflux). actually looking at it again, almost everything but the core sitting data is wrong
and at worst you could say I'm jaded about marketing
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~ benjamin disraeli
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I don't get it.
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I had some wierd "brick" (the movie) style noir dream last night where I got strong armed and thrown into a black van and ended up getting the shit beat out of me and on top of some tall flat complex style roof where some guy I went to highschool with who is actually alot like me but I'm pretty sure doesn't like me because I was trying to talk to his current gf (but didn't know they had a thing goin on) while I guess he was tryin to do the same thing first.
I felt completely powerless and scared (I get this alot when I dream I think its because I'm afraid of being afraid) while the whole time I was watching myself outside of my body and wondering WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?!?! and was angry at myself for not fighting back. He had a gun pointed at me and then he either threw me off of the rooftop or shot me and I fell off. Then I woke up out of a coma in the hospital and found out that someone had shot and killed my brother while I was asleep and I was angry at myself for being weak and trying to find out who did it so I could kill them.
thats all I can remember though.
Sometimes I have violent dreams but not really like that and I usually don't dream very often because I smoke alot and I'm pretty sure that prevents dreams.
One of the scariest dreams I had though ever and only a couple months ago (because I thought it was real). Was while I was standing watch on the bridge of a smaller vessel than my ship (like a large tugboat) watching the seas from the window towards the bow. On a ship when you're running through rough weather just like a boat it lists (rocks) from side to side and fore and aft too sometimes. Well I dreamed that the seas were really really rough. The roughest I've ever been in and water kept bashing against the bow and we were listing fore and aft unusually heavily. And from the window I could see the bow go up and then down into the waves, take on water and then up and down again. Then it went up really really high and down and I saw this huge fucking rogue wave the size of a tsunami towering over everything and then the bow shot straight down beneath it and all I saw was blue.
Thats the only dream I ever woke up in and actually yelled "what the fuck!" because we were in pretty rough weather then and while I was sleeping my body was listing in bed too just like the dream (which is prolly why I dreamed it).
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I don't get it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
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i had a dream last night where i lay motionless and seemingly stuck on a couch looking up at a ceiling, and on the ceiling were a ton of large and grotesque bugs and i was watching them squirm and move and i spent the whole time just thinking "i hope they don't come down here"
catas your dream was fucking cool/scary, very artsy...
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As much as I love Mark Twain, I always thought that particular quote was kind of dumb.
Like, the only other option for use in arguments I can't think of are anecdotes, which are Largely emotional and illogical to base beliefs on. Statistics on the other hand, are not emotional. They don't give a fuck about you, they will display truth whether or not you like it, because, statistics are hard numbers. The numbers can be used and abused in certain ways and can be made up of course. And hell, they can be misinterpreted, but so can anything used in any argument or statement.
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As much as I love Mark Twain, I always thought that particular quote was kind of dumb.
Like, the only other option for use in arguments I can't think of are anecdotes, which are Largely emotional and illogical to base beliefs on. Statistics on the other hand, are not emotional. They don't give a fuck about you, they will display truth whether or not you like it, because, statistics are hard numbers. The numbers can be used and abused in certain ways and can be made up of course. And hell, they can be misinterpreted, but so can anything used in any argument or statement.
nah, statistics are often used to represent things that aren't true. I guess infographics are kinda like statistics and my post probably sounds like someone preaching against stats, tho the oldtimers were probably only doing so to screw over poor people or something
actually most infographics are probably fine since they tend to be about fun or positive stuff or stuff that won't negatively impact people if it turns out not to be totally correct
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I've been having some weird dreams lately probably because I've been listening to my own ragnarmusic before falling asleep. Most of them the general couple of towns nearby are all reconfigured, I'm at college but it's different in some way or another/is partially a hotel for some reason. Last night I dreamt in this tiny space where in real life it fits a Dairy Queen there was like 5 stores and this underground boiler room thing and below that some weird garbage dump thing with lots of cool stuff in there for no reason. Lots of the dreams had me going into these employees only areas and stuff and encountering weird things
also made an entire EP today
Edit: http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83167.0
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I want to find some of my old dreams I posted here, some of them were really good. like the one where my gay friend peed on my blue dad-jeans in the bathroom lined with urinals, or the one where everyone was trying to get in my lockless stall while I was having diarrhea and I had to kick the door shut, then one middle-aged man in a sweater vest managed to sneak in but he only wanted to help me out. everyone remember to back up your dreams on googledocs.
this one's not that good (don't read), but I like it because it sounds like it makes a point:
I get a lot of dreams that are continuations of dreams I had years before. the dream I had the other night I was revisiting what I can best describe as real-world castlevania cathedral-like building, with many high-ceilinged rooms filled with shiny hardwood staircases, fancy red carpets, and walls made of stone and lined with neat wooden bookcases. I repeatedly had to travel to the cathedral nave, each time taking the same route jumping across bookcases and swinging cages. this had something ambiguous to do with saving my imprisoned sister. I worried about her, but I'd also forget about her a lot and I usually felt pretty good.
in the nave, which was furnished with fancy upholstered hardwood chairs rather than pews, I listened to sermons about something alongside several hundred old men in gowns. I was the youngest member of some religious group following a pope-like man called stephen "the grey", who looked like Stephen Fry in a grey gown and cap. I was essentially his disciple or protégé but I sat in the audience with the rest of the congregation. stephen was the one giving the sermons, and after he was done we all sang songs about him and his accomplishments. grey was a holy color, and the rest of congregation and I wore grey hearts on our chests (made of construction paper and scotch-taped). after several platforming trips to the nave I found out I was going to be awarded some high-ranking position, which would help secure my sister's safety. but it was uncovered that I had previously written (years ago in the previous dream) a harsh critique of stephen's leadership and its negative effects on the community, so I was excommunicated and exiled to an island similar to the Dominican Republic/tropico for the rest of the dream.
there was this highly complex and rational religious/legal doctrine behind the exile, as well as everything else that had happened in the dream up to that point. I was well-versed in the grey doctrine and could only think in grey doctrine gibberish. in my exile I formulated huge gibberish arguments against my excommunication and my sister's imprisonment.
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nah, statistics are often used to represent things that aren't true. I guess infographics are kinda like statistics and my post probably sounds like someone preaching against stats, tho the oldtimers were probably only doing so to screw over poor people or something
actually most infographics are probably fine since they tend to be about fun or positive stuff or stuff that won't negatively impact people if it turns out not to be totally correct
I'm not following. Are you saying the oldtimers preached for or against stats? Why are the old people trying to screw over the poor people?
But yeah, I said they can be misinterpreted and manipulated.
Assuming a reliable source, large pool, properly represented, and properly collected is much more useful and accurate than even the best of any group's or individual's very detailed anecdote. Memories fade, our brains trick us with false memories, emotions cloud our judgment, and of course people on occasion, lie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics)
Go to the 'misuse' section.
The famous saying, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics".[14] which was popularized in the USA by Mark Twain and incorrectly attributed by him to Disraeli (1804–1881)[citation needed], has come to represent the general mistrust [and misunderstanding] of statistical science. Harvard President Lawrence Lowell wrote in 1909 that statistics, "...like veal pies, are good if you know the person that made them, and are sure of the ingredients."[citation needed]
(yes, I see the "citation needed" spots. I still agree with the sentiment. Though I've never had a veal pie.)
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they don't intend to misinform (obviously, their purpose is the opposite), but often they do esp. with the health-related ones. something to do with simplifying the information probably. for instance this one http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/sitting-kills/ (http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/sitting-kills/) apparently makes a provocative statement about the dangers of sitting too much, but on closer examination, is based upon a weak correlation, and makes some poorly-thought-out and sometimes unhealthy suggestions (eg "take the extra step", which doesn't actually fit into the infographic and suggests you give yourself an RSI/carpal tunnel and acid reflux). actually looking at it again, almost everything but the core sitting data is wrong
and at worst you could say I'm jaded about marketing
Nah you're right, I was just being intentionally dense about the whole "statistics/graphs are lies" thing. My brother is a designer and he specialized in infographics for a while (until he realized it's extremely difficult to find clients for that sort of thing) and it's extremely interesting stuff. Entails a lot of talking with experts and helping them organize their thoughts.
But I did mean it when I said marketing is lies and design is truth, because design caters to the subconscious.
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It's great man, having a lot of fun. Met a couple of cool new people and I've been hanging out with the hotel part owner who's also my age. I wouldn't mind living here.
It's really too bad you guys aren't all on Facebook because I've been posting a ton of pictures there, and I'm too lazy to also put them here.
I'll upload 'em real quick...
edit: http://wedemandhtml.com/tmp/japan2012/
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where did you go? oh japan....
I've never seen the part your at but those are the parts of japan I wanted to see, the places with some culture. If you end up near tokyo a good place to go is the hard rock cafe and if you get to yokohama theres this bar downtown called "captains".
I used to go there all the time with my buddy and ship-mates. Its kind of a seaman's bar but its nice, the girls are pretty cute and the owner is some cool ass african dude from ghana. If you find it or see it go there and ask for the strongest drink they have. It some incredibly high proof russian vodka that is illegal in most places. Also they sell a saki in yokohama that has a baby pit viper in the bottle and it makes your body numb. I tried to find some but didn't have enough time. Also there is this cool ass market near the yokohama train station that you can walk down and they have all kinds of different things for sale and little bars/clubs.
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where did you go?
land of the rising animeboob
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also in yokohama they have one of the world's largest ferris wheels, I wanted to go on it but my bud's a chicken shit and wouldn't get on it. You can see it from pretty much anywhere around yokohama. Pretty much all of the yokohama/namika(sp?)/tokyo areas you can get to and from by the subway system and its pretty easy once you figure it out.
thats the problem I had though not knowing where the fuck I was going and not having enough time to figure it out. You can get on the military base there too I think if you can play off like you're american and buy shit for way cheaper, I don't think we ever needed an ID. Also the port I worked at is in/near yokohama across the water from the ferris wheel.
My old ship might be there it looks like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Victorious_(T-AGOS-19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Victorious_(T-AGOS-19))
it was built by the same company I work for now the year I was born. Which is pretty wierd I didn't know that till I got on.
JAPAN FAQS #1: If you're gonna eat japanese cuisine be careful what you eat because they like beef tongues/brains and wierd shit like that. But there is a badass thai resturaunt in yokohama that is one of the best places I ever ate at (cooked by real thai people).
JAPAN FAQS #2: Japanese people really like golf-driving. They don't actually play golf (I never saw a golfing range) but they just like driving. Theres this place outside yokohama where there are hundreds of them just hitting golf balls into nets. Its pretty hilarious I think, the attraction to it.
JAPAN FAQS #3: Japanese young people really like hip-hop culture and clothing. I laughed my ass off the first time I saw a thugged out japanese kid (there are a bunch). You'll prolly see what I'm talking about soon if you haven't already.
JAPAN FAQS #4: You do not have to worry about getting robbed or mugged in japan. Or atleast the places I went through.
I only went to White Beach/Okinawa/Yokohama and up towards tokyo but not actual tokyo
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JAPAN FAQS #1: If you're gonna eat japanese cuisine be careful what you eat because they like beef tongues/brains and wierd shit like that. But there is a badass thai resturaunt in yokohama that is one of the best places I ever ate at (cooked by real thai people).
That's not all that uncommon in European countries. Gyuutan (http://topics23.da-te.jp/e426853.html) (cow tongue) is absolutely delicious.
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you a freak dawg
Which parts are you going to? I'm guessing you're gonna atleast go to tokyo it wouldn't make since going over there and not going to tokyo. But I didn't really like all of that recycled western capitalist/consumerism marketing garbage and they really take that shit to a new level. IE: starbucks on every corner and japanese kentucky fried chicken... Plus Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Angelena Jolie ect.. selling ipods and make-up.
They got an underground mall in yokohama with a cool fish/seafood market. And then theres Mount Fuji: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Fuji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Fuji)
which you can see from all over that area, it gets pretty hard though with the smog sometimes and the highrise buildings/skyscrapers. That part pissed me off alot. Not being able to get a good picture of it or being able to see it. Kind of a waste. I wanted to go to it but A) I didn't know how to get there and B) didn't have enough time.
Do you know any Japanese? In the tokyo/yokohama area they speak english pretty well but if you go further south towards okinawa they don't speak english and don't like outsiders as much (or atleast americans(I don't really blame them)). I had to ask for a taxi and I had to play sherades with the girl at the counter (who had to get someone to help her) for like ten minutes before they figured it out.
JAPAN FAQs #5: You can tell when a japanese person is drunk because they wear this big shit eating grin and their faces turn red. I used to sit in the subway and count out how many of them have been drinking because its so easy to tell.
JAPAN FAQs #6: Japanese people love black people. Or are really interested in them. They stare alot and try to make more of an effort to talk to them because there aren't many of them over there and its unusual/oddity to them. (A black guy told me that)
JAPAN FAQs #7: Their cops are badasses; Japanese police are required to train in either judo or kendo. And they use these baton/boa boa things to take people down that run from them. I saw them on the street and I thought they were like traffic guides or something. They just stand on street corners completely still, kind of like the british gate-guards do.
Ok, i'm done ranting about japan. I might remember more if theres an interest but I'm just trying to point out some stuff I noticed, got to see, missed out on incase you don't already have your schedule full up and happen to come across these things.
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those pictures are incredible
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they don't intend to misinform (obviously, their purpose is the opposite), but often they do esp. with the health-related ones. something to do with simplifying the information probably. for instance this one http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/sitting-kills/ (http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/sitting-kills/) apparently makes a provocative statement about the dangers of sitting too much, but on closer examination, is based upon a weak correlation, and makes some poorly-thought-out and sometimes unhealthy suggestions (eg "take the extra step", which doesn't actually fit into the infographic and suggests you give yourself an RSI/carpal tunnel and acid reflux). actually looking at it again, almost everything but the core sitting data is wrong
and at worst you could say I'm jaded about marketing
I just noticed this post. That infographic is why I no longer sit at my computer. But I've been reading lots of articles from different sources all pretty much saying the same thing so I was like, fuck I'm going stop sitting then.
I lack a standing desk (and the money to buy one) though so I just put a bunch of boxes on my sitting computer desk. Looks really ghetto but it gets the job done.
I've been standing at my computer for a while. My biggest worry was that I wasn't going to be able to play games as well since I figured I wouldn't have the stability, but that turned out not to be the case and standing only sucked comfort-wise like the first week of doing so. I got used to it pretty quickly.
EDIT: It takes noticably less effort to stand up from a crouch now as well.
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@Terrorantula: You're a girl????
Wherever did you get that idea? *boy boy boy*
Apparently I'm Almond Bubble Tea,at least as of this moment.
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@Hero Bash: What part of "Terror" combined with "Tarantula" gave you even the slightest hint of impression that the person choosing this moniker was even remotely girl-like?
I'm trying to follow the logic, but it's got me genuinely baffled.
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Nah you're right, I was just being intentionally dense about the whole "statistics/graphs are lies" thing. My brother is a designer and he specialized in infographics for a while (until he realized it's extremely difficult to find clients for that sort of thing) and it's extremely interesting stuff. Entails a lot of talking with experts and helping them organize their thoughts.
But I did mean it when I said marketing is lies and design is truth, because design caters to the subconscious.
I thought you meant I said those things and idk if that's what I think or not. I agree tho, infographics can be really interesting
enjoy your fucken trip to land of too many things things that look cool
I just noticed this post. That infographic is why I no longer sit at my computer. But I've been reading lots of articles from different sources all pretty much saying the same thing so I was like, fuck I'm going stop sitting then.
I lack a standing desk (and the money to buy one) though so I just put a bunch of boxes on my sitting computer desk. Looks really ghetto but it gets the job done.
I've been standing at my computer for a while. My biggest worry was that I wasn't going to be able to play games as well since I figured I wouldn't have the stability, but that turned out not to be the case and standing only sucked comfort-wise like the first week of doing so. I got used to it pretty quickly.
EDIT: It takes noticably less effort to stand up from a crouch now as well.
I thought so! if you are/were overweight it's probably mostly accurate, but otherwise I wouldn't listen to it at all. standing isn't a substitute for exercise tho, and you should watch out you aren't harming your legs, feet and knees. your feet can start to go flat if you put too much weight on the interior and you can get lots of other problems if you lock your knees
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@Hero Bash: What part of "Terror" combined with "Tarantula" gave you even the slightest hint of impression that the person choosing this moniker was even remotely girl-like?
I'm trying to follow the logic, but it's got me genuinely baffled.
he said something about insulting a guy that was trying to date him.
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made another EP
I accidentally got the Moonside Moononooosiiiidde music sounds pretty much in one track
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He wasn't trying to date me, we were role playing.
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Roleplaying what? Like D&D?
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http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/generative-tunes-vol-2
here's that EP
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I thought so! if you are/were overweight it's probably mostly accurate, but otherwise I wouldn't listen to it at all. standing isn't a substitute for exercise tho, and you should watch out you aren't harming your legs, feet and knees. your feet can start to go flat if you put too much weight on the interior and you can get lots of other problems if you lock your knees
Yeah, My feet and knees are occasionally mildly sore. I also occasionally lock my knees, I'll try to avoid that, thanks for the tip. I'm somewhat overweight still and standing hasn't caused me to lose any weight, but I haven't gained any either. Considering we just finished the holidays (lots of sugar and fatty foods pushed by family), I'll consider it a mild victory. Then again my hunger is just as rampant and I lack the interest/will to give up delicious food. And I don't enjoy exercise, but not because its painful, that is not a problem. I find exercise incredibly boring and I like, have A.D.D. or something.
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http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/generative-tunes-vol-2 (http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/generative-tunes-vol-2)
here's that EP
dude I just listened to vol 1, and it made me want to listen to vol 2. so ty
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Yeah, My feet and knees are occasionally mildly sore. I also occasionally lock my knees, I'll try to avoid that, thanks for the tip. I'm somewhat overweight still and standing hasn't caused me to lose any weight, but I haven't gained any either. Considering we just finished the holidays (lots of sugar and fatty foods pushed by family), I'll consider it a mild victory. Then again my hunger is just as rampant and I lack the interest/will to give up delicious food. And I don't enjoy exercise, but not because its painful, that is not a problem. I find exercise incredibly boring and I like, have A.D.D. or something.
I find it pretty boring too, but I just do it anyway bc I want the benefits and I'm unhealthy enough by disease without making it worse for myself. occasionally I'll listen to music or watch something
when college is in I also get exercise on my commute, a couple miles a day either walking or on a bike. and when I'm at my parents' I'm always doing some sort of physical work outside. so it might be easiest just wo work in some physical exercise somewhere, rather than designate a set exercise time. or start skateboarding or mountainbiking
actually everyone should check out pump tracks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fofuwA2iOfE pumping is a pretty new 'sport', it's easy to get into, doesn't really require skill, and is a really vigorous full-body workout. the first time I did it I was pretty much beat after 15 minutes. it's surprisingly fun
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dylan-borrowed-from-obscure-civil-war-poet-say-critics-416069.html
Just hilarious. The people who Actually Know Their Stuff all say it's not a big deal (and it isn't) but then they GO TO THE INTERNET to find angry people so they can pretend it's a controversy.
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definitely the first artist to draw from poetry in his lyrics
i am disgusted
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he.... whaaat!? using OTHER literature in his work blasphemy ugh
also i made this today http://soundcloud.com/jmickle/this
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new EP coming up in a couple minutes
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/hybrid-clusterfuck-ep
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@Terror: you're a girl
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http://www.synthmania.com/Famous%20Sounds.htm
this is pornography to a man like me
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definitely the first artist to draw from poetry in his lyrics
i am disgusted
particularly in this type of music. "original songs" barely existed in the Olden Days, it's mostly an invention of the record labels.
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I woke up this morning and could barely stand still my head was spinning around. I've been up for about two hours and when I walk I can't walk a straight line. I'm disoriented or something. I thought at first it was rough weather and the ship was listing but A) I can walk straight unless its listing real real bad and B) its completely calm outside.
I'm gonna take a nap and hope this goes away because I got a bad feeling.
Whenever I exert myself like straining to do something ie: picking something really heavy up. I've had these wierd kind of tracer things show up in my vision. Like tons of tiny little bright off colored spots but I can't point out what colors they are they're just a discoloration. Its only happened like three times. Once at home and twice here. I'm wondering if the two things are related or if I'm just really tired this morning and need to wake up. I dunno why I would be I haven't been doing shit. Also I had a headache most of the morning yesterday which is unusual for me.
We have a medic and a mexican doctor onboard but I don't wanna go to them unless I know something is up cus thats how I got sent in last time and screwed out of like $12,000. I probably would have been sent in anyways though cus my hands didn't work and prolly would have just got worse.
Edit: well I saw the medic anyways because someone said my blood pressure could be high and I was physically fine he just said I prolly got something goin on with the fluid inside of my ear causing vertigo. probably from us rocking and rolling for a week straight and it threw me off a lil. So instead of just not doing anything I'm supposed to be not doing anything until lunch when I have to see him again. Its not really getting better or worse now but its not that bad either I can still get around just got to be careful. I'm prolly gonna tell him I'm fine even if I still fill a little odd because theres nothin they can do about it and I'm not going home because of some mild dizziness when I get up.
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lol new EP
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actually everyone should check out pump tracks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fofuwA2iOfE pumping is a pretty new 'sport', it's easy to get into, doesn't really require skill, and is a really vigorous full-body workout. the first time I did it I was pretty much beat after 15 minutes. it's surprisingly fun
It looks kind of fun yeah. Unfortunately its too friggin' cold to do that right now, and I don't think there is a pump track anywhere near here. :P
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get a bag and box dude. Its a full body workout and you learn basics on how to fight too. I love it, listening to music and hitting a bag its really fun.
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hey these are pretty cool
http://www.superdonate.org/ (http://www.superdonate.org/)
http://www.charitii.com/index.php (http://www.charitii.com/index.php)
http://www.ripple.org/index.html
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they were trying to inject my bladder with dye through my urethra bc they wanted to see what my bladder looks like, but the inner sphincter wouldn't open up so it just filled up my urethra and then squirted out all over. they were trying to stick a fat but somehow still sharp needle up my urethra and I can't tell you how much it hurt. it's kinda like when just a little bit of skin gets pinched in something, but from the inside of your penis. this went on for 15 minutes and it still hurts now. I have to wait a week to find out what this means, idk if I failed the test or the doc didn't do it right. a snippet from earl's life, I'm convinced all my problems have been caused by lyme disease
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damn dude, that sounds horrible.
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LOL http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/ron-paul-lands-coveted-wikileaks-endorsement
As if I didn't already have enough reasons to hate Assange.
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AHAHAHAHA http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/chuck-todd-stephen-colbert-president_n_1218614.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/chuck-todd-stephen-colbert-president_n_1218614.html) it's just one thing after another.
this is such a 100% creampuff journalist liberal CNN/MSNBC thing to say.
also Huffpo commenters are such gigantic idiots it's not even funny anymore.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Megaupload_AP1.jpeg)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.thestreet.com/files/tsc/mainstreet-photos/photo-gallery/art-gallery/face-front-offlead.jpeg)
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So I guess most people have heard the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Wvn-9BXVc
I definitely miss it since it was so commonly used. But I kind of like MediaFire more because its lacks the 'waiting in between downloads' timer.
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http://xltronic.com/mb/117095/handclap-synthesis-on-a-modular
just record yourself clapping
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screw smbc. i started reading it since last year starting with the first one and now I'm somewhere around 1500+ and i just realize that they have an extra strip when you hover your mouse to the red button. :/
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Yeah same happened to me with a few comics. Oglaf does that too.
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Bad Apple on Shamisen! (http://youtu.be/dx76YPgZviE) Also the MMD Cup has begun (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2012/01/22/video-mikumikudancecup-viii-begins)! Damn I didn't know you could make videos that good in MikuMiku Dance!
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Happy chinese new year. Congratulations for everyone for the week long holiday. Welcome the year of dragon.
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wow. it's been 12 years huh. 2000 was a great draonn year
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http://donjon.bin.sh/world/
hey I thought yuo guys might like this
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My brother is obsessed with Civ5 now. Well. I mean he was like maybe a few weeks ago. He played it non-stop. Now he just plays it everyone once in a while, I suppose more recently hes been obsessing over Skyrim. Which lead me to wanting to play Morrowind.
also, I know this isn't the "what are you playing" topic. :P
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civ5 was horrible, unplayable garbage. civ4+the expansion packs was the best civ game.
East did the UI graphics for civ4. Anyone remember him?
East!! Where are you?
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civ5 was horrible, unplayable garbage. civ4+the expansion packs was the best civ game.
ya unfortunately. the fact that every post-release update for Civ5 is DLC probably has something to do with it too.
I'm gonna try it again sometime, I just remember it being pretty boring. too shiny and streamlined
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ahhhhh
some mexican jacked my flashdrive I got from my dynamic positioning course I left it in one of these computers last night and its got a pdf file with my manual and stuff to read on it from the class. I think I know the guy thats got it he's a really big welder I'm going to try to trade it for some oranges or something.
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been practicing hiragana. already memorized the 46 characters and is mastering the writing/reading with internet resources. next would be katakana before i proceed to kanji. weirdly, i prefer mastering the graphical symbols first than the grammatical rules and the actual vocabulary of the language. i guess it's easier and the learning curve will flow better when i get to actually using it. I have no idea whyI'm doing this i'm just very ery bored and I guess japanese chicks are hot so it's a potential future investment.
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didnt east also do a site design for GW a few years ago? it looked really nice
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didnt east also do a site design for GW a few years ago? it looked really nice
He did, leafo was working on it. Never finished it, however.
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http://tindeck.com/listen/kjeo
hi if anyone wants to use this for battle song in their targ game go ahead, I just made it as a test track and I'm not really using it
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http://lrnj.com/ (http://lrnj.com/)
lol this is actually working pretty well for me play some Dragon Quest rip-off but instead of wasting time on thousands of random battles you're studying and stuff. the humor is fucking godawful though hhehe stupid gaijin...
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I watched a few BBC shows on youtube, and now it keeps recommending me these awful british and irish comedians and stuff like mock the week - unlikely phrases to see in the bible and the graham norton show. I wonder if people ever bother uploading letterman's junk like that
I don't have anything wrong with my wiener/penis btw but I've still got to sort out my stomach
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aaaaa mock the week so bad
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Wondering about the Google privacy thing. Also have too many ideas for my part of the chain game currently -I REFUSE to let it die- and gotta sort it all out. I don't want to get so ambitious that I won't get it done, especially as I've never really submitted anything before, but I don't want it to be shit either. I think I have a general idea of my middle way, but need to strengthen it.
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Took a train http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/6785924879/in/photostream/lightbox/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/6785924879/in/photostream/lightbox/)
More pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/sets/72157628909725679/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/sets/72157628909725679/) and lots more to come.
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So far out of those only the trains and vending machines are familiar to me. I can't believe I missed out on all that beautiful country side buildings, statues, and art stuff. Where did you find all of that? I saw a few of those angled roofed buildings but they were in like housing subdivisions stacked together like flats or something.
Thats the part of japan I really wanted to see too. I mean I got to see okinawa and whitebeach which were landscape pretty but not with the old cultural cool japanese things like that.
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ahaha I had the stupidest dream where I made a game that was like a dramatization of the raid on Megaupload guy's mansion and I don't really remember all of it but I'm pretty sure since he's German he had some army of voxel nazis guarding him and you have to singlehandedly defeat all of them while navigating the labyrinthine Dotcom mansion. Also probably video screens are everywhere spewing the megaupload song/various megaupload propaganda/mega things
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ahaha I'm watching this BBC show Sharpe's Challenge and it's basically like British Indiana Jones or something but it stars the guy from Goldeneye who played 006 and there are Goldeneye 64 sound effects all over the place and it's making me have cognitive dissonance or something
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/goddamnliberal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/paul-ryan-money-cake2.jpeg)
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ahaha I'm watching this BBC show Sharpe's Challenge and it's basically like British Indiana Jones or something but it stars the guy from Goldeneye who played 006 and there are Goldeneye 64 sound effects all over the place and it's making me have cognitive dissonance or something
sharpe was itv. it's sean bean. it's nothing like indiana jones ?? all important facts
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hello saltw i miss you
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We miss you too.
Maybe I should give up on the Chain Game but it seemed like an opportunity to get some work done/
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A young female cast (Kirsten Dunst, Lizzy Caplan) in an edgy post-Bridesmaids wedding comedy produced by Will Ferrell and Adam McKay's Gary Sanchez Productions is destined to draw attention.
hello saltw i miss you
finally, please post some weird views on something this place is a big aging white boys club. everyone here is literally the same person.
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AGH! ONE of my housemate's cats is missing And I'm scared he may have run off!
It'll be my fault if we never see him again ... :(​ T_T
1:05 AM
Made a circuit of the neighborhood and put out a can of tuna on the front porch; I'll try to sleep a little.
Tomorrow I'm planning to talk to the neighbors
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my oven is broken, i tried to make a late night snack and smoke billowed out of it and set off all the fire alarms in my house at like 4:30am.
aaaaa
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I made three cups of tea last night in three seperate mugs (yellow, orange and blue) and drunk them at the same time.
Tea hound Esh.
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OK so apparently the cat showed up on the porch at 3;30-ish and is now inside the house. I'm so relieved.
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hi esh :)
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hey geo
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Wow. I cant believe ive been a part of the site for what like 10 years now? I think I'm gonna start popping in and bullshitting with what seems like the last survivors of a once thriving community. Good to be back. For those who care, I'm on my second round of college. Having completed a bachelors already, and taking another whack at community college hiding in academics from those bill collectors we love. cheers.
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Good for you...
Just got done chatting with a gal who would NOT take no for an answer and kept trying to invite me to cyber with her. I eventually deleted her from my list,. How did she get on there anyway?
And that dancing butt is disturbing.
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Just saw Bruce Willis in a Japanese ad and man he's old.
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hey what do you call it when a criminal doesn't want to leave prison because he doesn't think he'll reconfigure into society as expected.
I remember reading about that somewhere. I get that feeling alot when I'm about to go back home. Its like I want to because I want my personal freedoms and shit like that back but I don't because theres too much shit. Too many people, too many words, things move too fast. Its like a mild anxiety or something. Its like going back into a different world where I'm a different person, one that doesn't matter I can't think as much and do as much because I feel stifled all the fucking time.
Its hard to explain. Not exactly like being a shut in and almost like being a hermit. Its like going immediately from an environment I can easily understand and control to an extent to one with so many variables I stop giving a fuck and feel powerless. I feel like I'm getting my wings clipped or something.
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sounds like what a lot of military people go through after coming back from a tour(minus the whole PTSD aspect). I know a handful of reserve guys who went over for a while didn't really go into combat or anything but basically lived at work with not a lot going on and some sort of rigid structure and when they came back they felt all weird about everything and never really wanted to do much besides stay home and drink/watch tv/read/play vidjagames. Its actually what leads a lot of people to reenlistment because they don't know what the fuck to do with themselves.
idk man, force yourself to do something outside of the house. you mentioned you liked hitting a bag to blow off steam so maybe check to see if the local YMCA has boxing lessons or something.
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finally, please post some weird views on something this place is a big aging white boys club. everyone here is literally the same person.
yeah!
wb mkk
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speaking of aging boys, hows your wiener doing earl?
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http://bigmagnet.deviantart.com/art/Ron-Paul-1-205463406?q=special%3Add&qo=3
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yeah exactly. Its not really a discipline aspect just not having any distractions I can do way more with myself out here I guess? And everyday I'm getting something.
I try to do alot of constructive shit when I get home and am sometimes successful. I think its more of a social thing for me though than just being lazy. I feel out of touch with alot of people especially people my age. But you're right. I get this feeling when I come back out to work that I failed something on my time off.
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speaking of aging boys, hows your wiener doing earl?
ok I guess. boners still work like a charm. I only ever really cared bc my genphys said I might have a kidney problem. I'm more worried about my heartburn and other general health problems
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I'm kind of interested in watching Scream 4 now because apparently it's either so incredibly stupid or brilliant depending on how you look at it, and also it's like some genuine 90's NOSTALGIA movie they even did some digital shit to the film to make it look like it's from the 90s. It could Wes Craven's Metal Gear Solid 2..... (kuraven-san)
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Had a pretty bad hangover today. Already nearly midnight but I'm still feeling it.
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ME TOO
we went to some mexican bar called "piano bar" last night and I got really drunk and only an hour sleep and my head hurts pretty bad. its like a music bar but they use some keyboard that sounds like some salsa made out of 80's synth. Both of the singers were hot as hell though, one of em looked like penelope cruz
Immigration wouldn't let me fly home today because my worked fucked something up with my visa now I get to stay in mexico for the weekend and get paid to do whatever the hell I want. Kinda irritating because I wanted to get home but also pretty cool.
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i deleted my twitter so i've found myself back on here on this night...surfing posts...thinking of making posts of my own.
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rip jamie's twitter :(
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the reason i've decided to return is because i was thinking of all y'alls the other day-- i wrote one of my college application essays about my experiences with online communities. it's so strange how close one can become with people who they've never met face-to-face. i wrote about Steel and how much he influenced me and how painful it was to follow his fight with cancer. :(
so anyway, now that i have become a second-semester senior in high school (thus i am now done assembling an art portfolio and applying to college and such), i finally can relax a bit (until AP tests) and spend some time with online bros. :3
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sometimes i am here and i read a thing but there are too many things sometimes so i don't read them all. Also I can't write anymore!
Has anything cool happened?
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Screw you Neil deGrasse Tyson https://twitter.com/#!/neiltyson/status/166039672278102016 https://twitter.com/#!/neiltyson/status/166041958903595008 https://twitter.com/#!/neiltyson/status/166046049838968834
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ahaaha, he deleted the last one. It contained: "I had bet that Americans own larger FlatPanels than SportsBars do. Some replied: "The poor don't own TVs." A false statement."
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sometimes i am here and i read a thing but there are too many things sometimes so i don't read them all. Also I can't write anymore!
Has anything cool happened?
idk, depends on what was the last time you chimed in? we still have the long, dangerous psycho topic "DUMB TOPIC", stay out of it... a new what's on your mind topic... lot of old members came back for no reason out of blue at december... drule's apparently working on a new version of gw again, konix/aaaaa is working on a game the last i heard of him... dada went to japan, took lots of hella good pictures... idk, lot of people have been busy with their lives i think for the past months i think! I THINK.
wow, i sound like some kind of fallout's first segment of the game townsfolk introducing to town. you could always try your luck in Earl's Big Win Chips casino at the center of the town, you can't miss it...
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NOt to mention all the SOPA discussion.
OK on a less serious note i discovered that Virtual Boy Advance still requires DirectX9, while Windows 7 comes with DX11, but found out that both versions can run simultaneously on a computer, so getting both has solved my problem.
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another 2day videogam http://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/2183 (http://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/2183)
technically made for Pirate Kart V which is a cool thing that i'll probably make a topic about as it approaches
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hey wasup
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sup
UGHHHHH fuck my lily white ass spent all day tryin toget a tan and I got some bigass pilot glasses and was takin them on and off when the sun came out and I ended up getting one of those stupid looking tan lines
now I gotta go back outside and try to fix it before it gets too dark :(
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hahaha what the fuck? am i a dumb person who doesn't understand english or did he seriously just suggest that poor people are stupid because they own televisions and should sell them in order to not starve i guess(idk???).
percentage of americans who own more than one pair of clothing = 100%. percentage of americans below the poverty line = 15%.
Whatever he meant, that's what it looked like. I can't think of any other point you can possibly make by juxtaposing those two statistics. So then he followed up by saying "NO THERE IS NO POINT TO THIS, JUST SAYIN'..." (that's the second link which he deleted too)
Maybe he was saying that it's amazing how wealth has increased to the point where even the poorest people can afford relatively luxurious items??? I don't know but it's just an extremely weird thing to say and he deleted two tweets that looked almost like damage control, so idk really!
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i am making a post here in order to perpetuate the illusion of activity that is going on (in this forum)
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Good for you. Who are you?
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i have high blood pressure :( really high too, it's acctually kind of scary.
at the doctors yesterday it started at like 170/100, and gradually went down to 160/100 and then 150/100 by the time I left. I checked it at lunch time and it was 177/96!!!! That's crazy high, like over 180 is an emergency, pretty serious. I think it was artificially high because I was nervous and stressed out a bit, but I know it was probably in the 150-160 range. I'm going to check it again after work and hopefully it won't be too bad. I'm supposed to be checking it for 2 weeks but honestly if it's this fucking high for several days in a row I'm just going to go back and get some meds. I do NOT want to end up on dialysis. This sounds weird but I'm almost hoping I have a tumor or something on my kidney because even though that'd suck, at least I can get some surgery or something.
My dad's side has a history of high BP and heart problems, which is pretty scary. Luckily I've quit smoking, over 1 year in fact!! January 2011 was the last time I smoked at all. I have to start exercising too. Man this sucks :(
also i made this thing: http://soundcloud.com/john-varga/this-thing (http://soundcloud.com/john-varga/this-thing)
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you should probably relax about your serious medical ailment or you could die.
MEDICAL WEIRD THINGS
my testosterone levels are twice the normal upper limit, but i don't have cancer so they were all "eh, you just have a really, really high base rate. it's normal for you"
has it always been high or is it recent?
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too sexy for your shirt. that's the problem.
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the last few times ive gone to the doctor it's been high. Not this high, but still high. I always figured it was just a combination of being a little nervous and also being sick (since I'm only at the doctor while I'm sick). If I sit for a few minutes and read something funny or just relax it goes down, so I'm starting to think it might be stress related. I'm really stressed out a lot more than I really realize, I take things way too seriously and get aggravated at so much crap, I'm just trying to take things a little easier. Including worrying about the blood pressure itself. It's unlikely I'll drop dead at any moment since I bet it's been high like this constantly for a long time. It's just crappy that now I have these numbers I'm staring at that definitively say "that's fucked". The problem with BP this high is you actually can literally just die :( BP over 180 is very serious and will get you into an ER instantly.
I tried taking my shirt off and it was still high. Even higher. I should lose some weight. heheh
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Did I go back in time or am I seeing posts by someone pretending to be climbtree mkkmypet goldenratio etc?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kl1ujzRidmU
look at the top rated comments too HEE HAW
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Something's wrong with my foot. Possibly going to a doctor for it today. but the usual doctor isn't in. Don't like the idea of going to a doctor me or my family is unfamiliar with though.
Also, Why do crutches SUCK so much? Seriously, I figured using them would be easier then hobbling around, shit requires arm strength and I don't exactly have that in spades.
Obviously can't stand at my desk (mildly worried that is the reason, me standing at my desk all day) so I had to drag a chair over here.
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Something's wrong with my foot. Possibly going to a doctor for it today. but the usual doctor isn't in. Don't like the idea of going to a doctor me or my family is unfamiliar with though.
Also, Why do crutches SUCK so much? Seriously, I figured using them would be easier then hobbling around, shit requires arm strength and I don't exactly have that in spades.
Obviously can't stand at my desk (mildly worried that is the reason, me standing at my desk all day) so I had to drag a chair over here.
I'm Dr.DDay and I recommend amputation.
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har har.
I think its actually because I had athletes foot and I walked on my feet funny because of that.
ALSO FUCK STAIRS. I'm convinced my house has to many of them.
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aaaa wrong thread
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har har.
I think its actually because I had athletes foot and I walked on my feet funny because of that.
ALSO FUCK STAIRS. I'm convinced my house has to many of them.
I'm still recommending amputation, it insistently solves all problem involving the feet.
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for some reason I kind of want to see JOURNEY 2 THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND (apparently a sequel to that awful Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D) like I don't know why... I guess it's so fake-looking my mind parses it as something different like FUN THEME PARK RIDE or something it's accidentally the meta-Spy Kids-type movie
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I'm still recommending amputation, it insistently solves all problem involving the feet.
Except phantom limb pain.
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Except phantom limb pain.
well it's not feet pain.
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It's going to be a busy day tomorrow- erm today- so I'm turning in, but just wanted to notify any Pokemon B&W Trainers (I saw there are a few here) that an Event Mewtwo (http://www.pokemon.com/us/ex/mewtwo/get-mewtwo) is available via this Minisite (http://www.pokemon.com/us/ex/mewtwo) from today through the 26th, among other things. (http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Official_Pok%C3%A9mon_site_promotes_return_of_Mewtwo)
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something is happening to gamingw. it's like a zombie. i think it's like a zombie, it's pretty cool. zombies.
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well it's not feet pain.
I missed you dday
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I managed to fin a Floating Continent chipset on Phylomortis using the Wayback MAchine! Yay! I'd been looking for it! (It also means that people can grab resources from the archived version in case they need them.)
But does my idea hold water?
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my campus has a terrible student center, and in it is this lobby that's supposed to be for everyone but since it has a game system and is kind in its own little nook it's essentially owned by the gamer anime nerds. it's almost right inside the door, so you have to walk past it. and in dong so I hear funny things pretty often
guy one: "it means the internet actually happened"
guy 2: "memes DO exist, but..."
and one time I overheard them talking about hentai in public unabashed
-
climb. tree.
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Also, Why do crutches SUCK so much? Seriously, I figured using them would be easier then hobbling around, shit requires arm strength and I don't exactly have that in spades.
Obviously can't stand at my desk (mildly worried that is the reason, me standing at my desk all day) so I had to drag a chair over here.
welcome to the future. use these sticks to walk around.
-
welcome to the future. use these sticks to walk around.
lol what? I'm not following.
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my campus has a terrible student center, and in it is this lobby that's supposed to be for everyone but since it has a game system and is kind in its own little nook it's essentially owned by the gamer anime nerds. it's almost right inside the door, so you have to walk past it. and in dong so I hear funny things pretty often
guy one: "it means the internet actually happened"
guy 2: "memes DO exist, but..."
and one time I overheard them talking about hentai in public unabashed
Sounds like you need to play Soul Caliber 5 with me.
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I wanted to do an effort and pay more attention to boards but I read a few posts and saw a few nicknames and I don't want to no more
also avatars be huge
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hey I might be starting a musical "compo" pretty soon. I was thinking people could try to make a full album in the month of march. since I missed the beginning of RPM challenge , but still want to make an album in a month. would anybody be interested in this??? making a google sites site now
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HAPPY VALETNIES DAY
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Sounds like you need to play Soul Caliber 5 with me.
ok, I'll try tomorrow
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hhow
how is this place still standing
pretty sure it is violating some international geneva UN forum building codes
havent posted in a while rip gw etc
also happy vd
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/AfcIW.jpeg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUruv_lTWhQ
Was watching this guys other videos and subscribed him. Then saw this pop up on my list. Whoa.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=725EZ6neT1I&feature=player_embedded
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YAY and UGH. I am 99% sure I have a job now. but its a labor intensive one. (as in not programming or computers) I'm going to be working at a warehouse. And its great that I have a job because shit I just need one.
Altogether not so bad at first glance. But it has MANDATORY OVERTIME. Which isn't great :/ And the pay is kind of weak at 9 bucks an hour.
Shit maybe this shitty job will motivate me to work harder towards my programming work... Or maybe it'll just tire me out and I'll be incapable of doing so. Who knows, guess I'll find out.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6232FCD678B5889F&v=LiAaAhlmM8o&feature=player_detailpage#t=148s
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
just
tears of laughter
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6232FCD678B5889F&v=LiAaAhlmM8o&feature=player_detailpage#t=323s aaaaaaaaa
it is REALLY worth listening to the whole thing
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6232FCD678B5889F&v=LiAaAhlmM8o&feature=player_detailpage#t=148s
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
just
tears of laughter
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6232FCD678B5889F&v=LiAaAhlmM8o&feature=player_detailpage#t=323s aaaaaaaaa
it is REALLY worth listening to the whole thing
Here is one for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBpfAj9qXc&feature=player_embedded
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcfXh9xqiCU
OBJECTION
-
another anime counter claim http://www.youtube.com/user/GARticuno#p/u
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this is funny but don't watch it before going to bed or you'll wake up angry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7RG_JZ3EG4&list=LLwUoW7qZNSUnZfhxMoko2aA&index=1&feature=plpp_video
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Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition. (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/ranse/?a001=msign)
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this is funny but don't watch it before going to bed or you'll wake up angry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7RG_JZ3EG4&list=LLwUoW7qZNSUnZfhxMoko2aA&index=1&feature=plpp_video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7RG_JZ3EG4&list=LLwUoW7qZNSUnZfhxMoko2aA&index=1&feature=plpp_video)
unghgnhgnghnghgnghng seriously why did i watch this, i knew what would happen
also JAPANESE GUYS CLIP YOUR FINGERNAILS
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I don't get it. Giga Puddi? wat?
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Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition. (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/ranse/?a001=msign)
I don't think it is. I think it's welcome change.
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I don't get it. Giga Puddi? wat?
apparently what she said comes from a commercial for mass-produced japanese dumpster pudding. I didn't know that, I just thought the video was funny on its own
isn't flan like an egg custard**? like something gross that few people would actually like. like just the filling of a creme brulee.
**idk what to call it, I think pudding, custard and cream all have different meanings in british and american english
edit ugh I can't believe europe has oak trees too. give it a rest god
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flan is actually pretty good; Its like pudding meets jelly cheesecake or some shit I'm not really sure what its made out of exactly but they put rum in it alot.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ipU3u3ILBdM
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climb. tree.
i once was a live but i have died and become a ghost now i am back again as a ghost to go on adventures as a frisky skeleton this is my life story remember it in your heart.
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all ghosts, spooks, spectres and other ethereal beings are welcome.
DREAD MUMMIES NEED NOT APPLY
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090727162616/finalfantasy/images/3/37/GreenCell.png)
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anyone have links on how to grow shrooms?
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this is a good page... keep it up saltw, keep it u- *GROANNN*, sorryyyy...
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way to ruin the page, bonzi_buddy..
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thanks for ruining versailles, cardinal de rhuan
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anyone have links on how to grow shrooms?
Shroomery.org
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that site is wack, there are way too many thangs to read. i just want a comprehensive simple growing guide
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theres a way to make the substrate in jars I think thats supposed to be the easiest method and I tried that way I can't rmember where I got it from it was prolly there though.
its hard to make though. I fucked it up when I tried and was real careful and still have spores left over I bought.
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You'll need a gamma radiation source to properly sterilize your jars and growth medium. You can easily find caesium 137 for that purpose in discarded or broken x-ray machines if you have access to a medical landfill. You'll have to be careful when handling it. Wear leaded gloves and OSHA certified CBRN respirator at all times. Don't forget your dosimeter either.
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Seriously, there isn't even that much text to read in that site. That's like complaining you have to memorize too many mathematical formulas to design a model airplane.
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http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek
Found this within 4 minutes of browsing that site
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I found a series on videos on that site actually, that's all I wanted. why do i have to read through 20 threads f that
good thing i have lab experience, growing on substrate and inoculating colonies...most of this stuff is trying to keep it all sterilized. thanks for the info mince, i'll be sure to look around for broken x-ray machines
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bub, what you're looking for is the "PK Tek", there are even youtube videos showing it. Farren has done it before too, maybe he'll have some advice (sorry to rat you out bro). #1 rule, STERILE. Everything needs to be sterile, the biggest threat to your mushroom crops are bacteria.
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all I can say is make sure you're area is clean and buy lots of lysol. When I did it it didn't work it was at my parents place and there were too many stuffs around and in the air I think and I found someone else to get them from.
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http://youtu.be/ZVUyyHYkBHk
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getting ready for pirate kart weekend
gargonherd and catamites have made games for it already!! gotta step it up..
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Growing shrooms is one of the easiest things ever if u got a pressure cooker and ain't a dirty scrub
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can I get youtube to stop recommending me videos I don't want to watch? Stewart Lee on the Harry Potter Series holy shit thanks I can't miss this I bet he totally ownz those books
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You check the recommended videos?
I usually just get all my youtube videos from other people and if I like it, I subscribe to the uploader and occasionally check my subscribe list.
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can I get youtube to stop recommending me videos I don't want to watch? Stewart Lee on the Harry Potter Series holy shit thanks I can't miss this I bet he totally ownz those books
stewart lee is one of my favourite comedians :(
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as an american I have no more room in my head for macho characters
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as an american I have no more room in my head for macho characters
well then the next one is gonna have to MAKE room sissyboy
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would everyone please stop asking me to delete their fucking accounts.
stop using the internet if what you write embarrasses you the day after!
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a lot of my old posts are embarrassing but I think it's better to keep them. take a page from the book of chip yall. who realy cares if someone digs up an ancient forum post of you praising that beck anime
edit: the best thing about that doug beach gif in your sig is that the frying pan looks like he has some real attitude as he's rollin along
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Same here, I was kind of a disgrace. A stupid prick. :P but I refuse to have it deleted. Like lying to myself. In fact I kind of wish I wasn't missing half of my history :/ It would be fascinating to see what I said even further back (and in the randoms spots I think that are missing throughout).
EDIT: There was this random person online that I continually bashed and acted like a dick to (I literally don't understand why I did this, I think I was just being a troll, maybe?) I remember that his name was Prefix? Anybody remember where he is? is he still here and just changed his name? (doubt that)
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Cannot solve the switch puzzle in Tierra Azul! I cna never get the voltage down to lower than 43 . . .
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ahaha I was getting an endoscopy (stomach pictures) today and as I was laying there before I had any drugs, the nurse, a woman in her 50s, was petting my hair and told me I was too pretty to be a boy. jesus christ
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woooooooooooooooooooooooooooopwooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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wat o.O
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life is a dry pizza crust but once in a while you get some creamy dip
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momentary flavour.....know what i mean?
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nope go to hell
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sounds like you had too much crust
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you had a tube sticking out of your ass right? thats why she said that, she wanted you to feel better about your predicament.
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that's a pretty weird thing to say to someone tho. I'm not offended but a lot of ppl prob would be
and no this was before they put the tube down my throat (not butt). the pics they gave me kind of look like stock photos tho, they prob just played around with my wiener for an hour and then woke me up
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ahaha I was getting an endoscopy (stomach pictures) today and as I was laying there before I had any drugs, the nurse, a woman in her 50s, was petting my hair and told me I was too pretty to be a boy. jesus christ
How comes you got one of those earl? Like I have endoscopies on a pretty regular basis (sucky :( ) - is everything ok in EARL DIGESTION LAND?
Also: Farren, most people say COLONOSCOPY for bumtubecamera. They suck way more than endoscopies too ;_;.
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helo agen
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speaking of assholes
http://soundcloud.com/farrenblackwell/at-the-river-rough-vox
what thsi sounds like?
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How comes you got one of those earl? Like I have endoscopies on a pretty regular basis (sucky :( ) - is everything ok in EARL DIGESTION LAND?
Also: Farren, most people say COLONOSCOPY for bumtubecamera. They suck way more than endoscopies too ;_;.
no, I've had persistent heartburn for about a year now. they wanted to rule out ulcers/hernia/cancer, found an irregular z line and and a small hiatal hernia. ie nothing, unless the biopsy from the z line shows something
why would you need to get the regularly? if I have to get one again I don't think I want anesthesia
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I have Crohn's Disease, so they like to monitor my innards pretty regularly, as ulceration can like SPRING UP. Since I turned 18 they've stopped knocking me out for it too, so it's like ridiculous under local anaesthetic. I get genuinely scared every time I have to go get one done.
What's a z-line man? Like I know what a hernia is (still not pleasant), but I have no clue what a z-line is. Is there a chance it could be something serious? Good luck though, hopefully it'll just turn out to be like OVERACTIVE GALLBLADDER TAKE THIS MEDICINE or something.
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that stinks man. respect, I gotta learn to JUST DEAL like that. I really let this stuff get me down. not so much with the lyme disease anymore, but all this new stuff
idk they didn't tell me what a Z line is, but I gather it's a line in the esophagus (between upper and lower, or between the esophagus and stomach, I dunno). apparently it's usually somewhat irregular-shaped, but if it looks especially weird there's a chance it means something serious
the hiatal hernia is where part of the stomach goes above the diaphragm into the cavity where the esophagus is located. apparently, it can be caused by violent vomiting and coughing. I had both of those problems just before my stomach problems started, so my guess is that that's what's causing the problem, and it's been slowly healing all this time. when this all started, I used to feel like throwing up whenever I ate anything. to me, it sounds like the food was getting caught in the hernia (wow gross). that's just a guess tho, the doctors haven't ever been able to tell me anything besides "maybe these medicines will help"
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the dude who voices the heavy in TF2 was Bravo Fox in zoobilee zoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t-VdEHE8Fg&t=58s
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Funny that, the Republicans managed to effectively get rid of Dennis Kucinich by redistricting him and forcing a primary, which he lost.
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http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble
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yeap. all of that should really be NO SHIT tho. what are schools teaching if not how to evaluate garbage media? this: everyone cite 3 periodicals and 3 book sources...NO WIKIPEDIA!!
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the real purpose of kony is to divide america
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what nobody seems to remember is that just a few months ago Obama sent troops into Uganda because it's the site of the largest onshore oil reserve discovery of the past two decades.
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yeap. all of that should really be NO SHIT tho. what are schools teaching if not how to evaluate garbage media? this: everyone cite 3 periodicals and 3 book sources...NO WIKIPEDIA!!
Like ten years ago schools in the UK only taught this as part of Media Studies GCSE and A-levels :(​. Now, thankfully, it's a required curriculum topic at GCSE English, covered in Citizenship/PersonalEducation etc, and covered in like EXTREME detail in English Language A-level too. Regardless of this, the majority of people seem to be heavily influenced by propaganda, even DURING a lesson where you're talking about bias and persuasive devices ;_;.
People love reading shit that backs up their prejudices, regardless of lack of objective content ;_;
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confirmation bias confirmation bias confirmation bias
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the dude who voices the heavy in TF2 was Bravo Fox in zoobilee zoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t-VdEHE8Fg&t=58s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t-VdEHE8Fg&t=58s)
Wasn't he also in Teen Witch?
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http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble (http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble)
I've been pissed off about this all day, they're profiteering off some madman who isn't even in the same country they are and they have the gall to pass it off as charity. Meanwhile, the civilians are caught in the middle of all this, their lives could be made more difficult by this outside interference.
I'm going to keep studying this until I know for sure what's going down. All I know is Kony = bad, Ugandan government = oppressive, IC = assholes.
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when will salt world just die and merge with SA????
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when will salt world just die and merge with SA? ???
a fate worse than death, imo
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when will salt world just die and merge with SA????
how 2005
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some parts of SA are really really good and some parts of it are really really bad
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when will salt world just die and merge with SA????
I'm so ashamed, son.
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I think I'm going to bet on them getting Kony killed
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some parts of SA are really really good and some parts of it are really really bad
column 1: coupons
column 2: the remainder
(j/k, I guess, let's play is a weird-ass place with good content, and fyad is funny esp when distilled in to its aggregate twitter feed, and i've heard the sports forums are also pretty cool)
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My experience with SA is that I have basically found the handful of threads I care about and I try not to venture out of them too much. Like, my SA experience basically consists of:
Feminism thread
Horrible reddit shit thread
Tattoo thread (I like to look at them)
Gamecenter CX thread
Minority perspectives on games thread
E/N to see if anything bizarrely horrible has happened to anyone (like the Manchild King thread)
and that's pretty much it ! ! ! those things are all good
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Doesn't SA charge like 10 dollars just to let you post? Fuck that shit.
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uh i've gotten well more than $10 worth of entertainment out of it (i originally joined just to ask for dog advice from pet island and i got more out of that than i would have a $10 book or something). the $10 fee rules because it keeps out a TON of shitty people. or really more importantly it keeps shitty people from constantly reregistering or making spam/joke accounts because they don't wanna pay $10 over and over.
i'm pretty sure SA would be reddit by now if it didn't charge $10
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Well, its still really hard for me to justify. My mind screams that its a rip since I can post in almost any other forum for free. Maybe when I have a decent paying job and money to try stuff like that I go for it. but as I see it is on the back burner from what I'd want to pay for entertainment.
On top of that. I can just see myself getting banned or something for some misinterpretation or mistake and then basically being screwed out of $10. I'm not even remotely a troll (in fact its obvious that they ruin the internet), but I don't like the idea of a $10 charge hanging over my head if I piss off the wrong people or I have a bad day and make a bad/stupid post.
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how 2005
what
yeah the $10 basically just filters out the shitposters and motivates you to think before posting and actually add something to the conversation. it's five dollars to customize your avatar though, that pisses me off.
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who the fuck is tristero and how dare he
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Hes new and did not know about that when signing up.
motivates you to think before posting and actually add something to the conversation.
Problem is that someone (a mod or admin) could interpret almost any post as worthless or overly offensive. (whether their interpretation is fair or not). The line very well may be blurry, especially from mod to mod or even day to day if a mod is feeling particularly ban happy one day or the next. Furthermore, even if its reasonable, I don't want to have to stress when I go to talk to people on the internet over whether what I'm posting is OK or not. I generally post on the internet to unwind. There are occasions that I do stress over posts ANYWAY of course, but I wouldn't want to have to pore over every post I make to make sure I don't offend people so that the $10 I arguably wasted doesn't seem like even more of a waste.
This is coming from someone who has never been banned from anything before (internet or not). And I think I have gotten a grand total of 2 warns on this forum, possibly more. (never got a warn on any other forum) That's not perfect, but I've been here a while. I'd still stress over these sorts of things.
Paying a premium shouldn't be necessary for interesting and entertaining internet discussion and it isn't as far as I can tell.
I also admit, there is bitterness at the idea that I would be so stupid to be swindled. Its not so that I'd miss the $10 so much (though at this point, I'm so broke that I would indeed miss it), but I'd feel like a sucker. And I'd hardly call myself a prideful individual (maybe I am IDK). This is just something that seems like it'd be crossing one of my few lines.
My over active imagination: SA Admin laughing all the way to the bank at the chump that paid $10 to post on his forum and get banned over some arguably offensive post/post with oddball or uncomfortable views.
EDIT: Just to clarify: I'd just shrug at getting banned from a forum for a "arguably offensive post/post with oddball or uncomfortable view" assuming I hadn't paid $10 for the account. Namely because I'd realize I wouldn't want to post on said forum anymore anyway if I got banned (assuming I went there for discussion itself and not some sort of assistance).
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I paid 15$ to have premium in gamingw
Most worthless misuse of my mom's credit card I've ever commited
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they're pretty tolerant of alternate viewpoints over there if so long as youre not a racist, dismissive, or un-contributing douche.
yeah they are elitist fucks but they put a lot of work into their posts and the effort shows.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3301274
look at that op. most SA threads are like that.
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seriously 90% of my posts on saltworld would get me on probation at least with the goons
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I paid 15$ to have premium in gamingw
Most worthless misuse of my mom's credit card I've ever commited
happy zoo was ligit for a little while.
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3301274
look at that op. most SA threads are like that.
look at that. it's dead serious. screams I care what my artificial community thinks of me bc it's all I have
such a stuffy place
edit actually disregard this post I don't want to talk about sa
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yeah if you get banned from SA (and we're talking BANNED not even just probated) for something you said being considered offensive/terrible it PROBABLY IS. i don't see a lot of bans on SA that didn't deserve it.
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look at that. it's dead serious. screams I care what my artificial community thinks of me bc it's all I have
such a stuffy place
edit actually disregard this post I don't want to talk about sa
i don't see whats so wrong with that. you get out what you put in, and if you don't like the heat get out the kitchen. i'm not about to put that much thought into a single post myself but i appreciate those that do.
and back when GW was active there were plenty of unfair and unwarranted bans. it was free to join but this place had an elite streak of its own back in the day
whatever, to each his own.
MY INTERNET FORUM IS BETTER THEN YOUR INTERNET FORUM
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happy zoo was ligit for a little while.
Didn't someone use it to store child porn or something? I think it was a finn
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Didn't someone use it to store child porn or something? I think it was a finn
i remember something going down with jester along those lines but i wasn't totally in the know on that one? i didn't know it had to do with the happy zoo though what the fuck why would you do that hahaha.
i got my first kanye west album off the happy zoo <3
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no, never happened. the jester thing was something else and it wasn't child porn
i don't see whats so wrong with that. you get out what you put in, and if you don't like the heat get out the kitchen. i'm not about to put that much thought into a single post myself but i appreciate those that do. whatever, to each his own.
MY INTERNET FORUM IS BETTER THEN YOUR INTERNET FORUM
you can have a well-written, informative post without being so stale and nerdy. probably not about law school tho, true
but I don't get the relevance of "you get out what you put in, and if you don't like the heat get out the kitchen". what are you putting in, in order to get posts like that? or are you just saying that's the name of the game at SA, if you don't like it don't sign up. I already knew that and I wasn't planning on becoming a member! are you not allowed to share opinions on SA unless you're trying to persuade others to adopt your view. every discussion must end with each party taking a bow after reaching a piecemeal agreement
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nah i didn't mean it like that. you don't have to be one of those dudes that makes a 5 post long mega OP, and most members dont, though you will be more involved in the community if you do so. the place has something like 150,000 members, so some try to stick out for internet cred i guess.
but plenty of the forum conversation is very casual, and most posts are not thesis esque in length and content you know. they want you to add something on a semi regular basis, but the community definitely has a sense of humor about it and isn't as strict or stuffy as i think you see them.
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Something awful could be a city. In fact, with very little resources it could become a little favela where people can practice objectivism.
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nah i didn't mean it like that. you don't have to be one of those dudes that makes a 5 post long mega OP, and most members dont, though you will be more involved in the community if you do so. the place has something like 150,000 members, so some try to stick out for internet cred i guess.
but plenty of the forum conversation is very casual, and most posts are not thesis esque in length and content you know. they want you to add something on a semi regular basis, but the community definitely has a sense of humor about it and isn't as strict or stuffy as i think you see them.
I realize it's not all like that law post, but I think some level of stuffiness permeates the community. that's what happens when you combine the largest forum with a membership fee. you said yourself you'd get probation there for a lot of the posts you make here. like even most of the humor I've seen from there has been "yes it's funny time now, let's be funny within a prescribed category until funny time is over"
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What do you mean by stuffiness though? I mean, if you put any level of effort into your post (like, you aren't posting a 5 word one-liner) and aren't posting completely HORRIBLE opinions then you're not going to get probated or banned. I don't get the SANCTIONED FUNNY TIME thing either, people post some pretty damn hilarious jokes in perfectly normal threads, they're just...on-topic. They're good jokes with effort put into them. What is it that you think you're not allowed to do on SA that you should be able to? This isn't an advertisement for SA, I'm not trying to talk you into parting with your $10 but your characterization of SA doesn't really match what I've seen of it and it's confusing me.
Like I said before I mostly stick to a handful of topics on SA, and they're things that I really don't know if I'd be able to discuss anywhere else. I don't mind having paid $10 like two years ago for that. I come to GW to talk to you guys specifically as my buddies, but there are certain topics that I definitely don't think could have as good of a conversation here (especially as it is now with only a handful of members). I mean I don't think GW is going to have an excellent feminism thread anytime soon, seeing as how we have, what, 3 women at the moment? That's just not something I can get out of GW. At the same time, I'm not e-buddies with random people at SA, and that IS something I come to GW for.
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It's cheaper than paying a hooker
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What do you mean by stuffiness though? I mean, if you put any level of effort into your post (like, you aren't posting a 5 word one-liner) and aren't posting completely HORRIBLE opinions then you're not going to get probated or banned. I don't get the SANCTIONED FUNNY TIME thing either, people post some pretty damn hilarious jokes in perfectly normal threads, they're just...on-topic. They're good jokes with effort put into them. What is it that you think you're not allowed to do on SA that you should be able to? This isn't an advertisement for SA, I'm not trying to talk you into parting with your $10 but your characterization of SA doesn't really match what I've seen of it and it's confusing me.
Like I said before I mostly stick to a handful of topics on SA, and they're things that I really don't know if I'd be able to discuss anywhere else. I don't mind having paid $10 like two years ago for that. I come to GW to talk to you guys specifically as my buddies, but there are certain topics that I definitely don't think could have as good of a conversation here (especially as it is now with only a handful of members). I mean I don't think GW is going to have an excellent feminism thread anytime soon, seeing as how we have, what, 3 women at the moment? That's just not something I can get out of GW. At the same time, I'm not e-buddies with random people at SA, and that IS something I come to GW for.
the fact that you're being judged on your effort is part of what makes it stuffy. plus the membership fee, the attempts to keep things civil and supposedly quality. and I was just talking about the few humor threads I've been linked to, it should prob be obv what I'm talking about
it's like the opposite end of the spectrum from gaiaonline, a place where you could post pretty much whatever you want and not get shit for it, as long as you followed a set of arbitrary rules. two ends of the spectrum of nerd. I'd rather be somewhere in between largely useless and redundant chaos and sterile tryhard staleness.
most of us are experts in feminism tho and I'm offended you'd suggest otherwise. what are the odds of running into misogyny on SA vs here
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most of us are experts in feminism tho and I'm offended you'd suggest otherwise. what are the odds of running into misogyny on SA vs here
A conversation with only men on feminism is boring.
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I never said that you guys were misogynistic. A feminism thread with only 3 women in it though is not going to be a good thread. It really needs WOMEN'S REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES.
I mean a thread here about the experiences of transgender people would be pretty bad considering we have, what, one (active) trans member? Swordfish is, right? If not make that NONE as far as I know. That doesn't mean we CAN'T DISCUSS these issues, but you can't get the sort of depth that makes for a good topic without input from the people involved.
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somethingawful is the Internet equivalent of a decaying fascist state. instead of there being cars with fins on them on the street, CRT monitors in the offices, and brutalist architecture which touts the righteous goals of the revolution, there's a button for digg (for christ's sake it's 2012) and forums software that would be dark comedy if you didn't have to pay ten dollars for privelage of using it.
there are approx. 3 safe zones for 'being funny' and then the rest of the forum for the most stilted and boring discussion outside of the political discussion board of gamefaqs (i'm assuming this is a thing, and that they love ron paul).
every funny safe zone emulates fyad by sucking its dick as hard as it possibly can, earnestly trying to distance itself from goony stereotypes and fitting them all the more snugly because of that effort. by parroting 4chan memes that are nearly a decade old, people form 'crews' and try to distinguish themselves as funny posters in a cult of personality with richard 'lowtax' kyanka as its head (hello, please join roger ebert's 'tasting things' club... thanks). for some reason the domain somethingawful.com redirects to a deprecated SEO page from 1999 with spam articles made to resemble comedy articles from the same period, mimmicking a style that even idiots like seanbaby and maddox had the good sense to get out of in 2004 or w/e. one must instead type the longer forums.somethingawful.com to get to the only part of the site with any content that has utility.
every thread has a very distinct party line (even threads I agree with, like the aforementioned leftist political ones) which replace the site's earlier ridiculous libertarian leanings with a desk chair maosim that is both embarassing and intellectually dissonant. this is enforced by a report system that you have to pay to be a part of, meaning that the CareHard level is through the fucking roof, especially when coupled with the fact that the only people who volunteer to be moderators are those who are such empty husks that the act of playing authoritarian strong man to a bunch of computer janitors and teenagers is something that they will lovingly engage in for free. proper punctuation and lack of, ahem, 'leet speak' is taken as a point of pride rather than as a point of 'honestly who gives a fuck in this day and age'.
this is all to say that somethingawful is both too big to be useful as a place for humor and too small and old to be useful as a place like reddit, where you click on the links and ignore the dipshit commentary.
ganbare and thanks
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reddit is the worst website on the Internet and not just because of the child porn
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nerds scour the internet to find interesting things to look at, and then deliver it to you for free. who cares about what they think.
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nerds scour the internet to find interesting things to look at, and then deliver it to you for free. who cares about what they think.
http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=82136.0
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I'm a beautiful woman
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Also you can be a self-described "expert on feminism" all you want but yeah like Vellfire says, it's going to be a boring discussion of things we probably all already know. At least I don't particularly see the appeal in it. Might be interesting, but it's not going to be very profound.
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All roads point to: let's get some new members!!!
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All roads point to: let's get some new members!!!
hOw iS tHe MaInSiTe ProGrEsSing
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Dada's Twitter is going nuts right now because of some political thing he said that some idiot pounced on. Unfortunately I cannot understand most of it because of poor google translations. Here is one tweet that was poorly translated from Dutch by google for instance:
yes, that's how it is. " @ LinksRapalje : @ msikma blue mug that I will just come to shove in your throat. Stupid hate amoeba. "
Twitter tough guys want to shove a blue mug down his throat??? Tell me more!
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I am a stupid hate amoeba
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I said something that made right wingers angry, one of them went on a tirade against me and as a result I got about 200000 angry messages.
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Also the biggest right-wing sensationalism blog linked directly to my tweet so it was like a machine gun of stupid.
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hate amoeba? is that how dutch people actually argue? that would be fun.
no vel I know you weren't implying we're insensitive towards sexism and feminism, I was just pointing out that there are definitely more misogynists on SA. it was a dumb point tho.
Also you can be a self-described "expert on feminism" all you want but yeah like Vellfire says, it's going to be a boring discussion of things we probably all already know. At least I don't particularly see the appeal in it. Might be interesting, but it's not going to be very profound.
you're right, it would be awful. I'm glad we don't have or need it. if yall encounter misogyny you want to share, what's on your mind works fine
newest post in feminism thread: I know that we usually talk about Lady Gaga and her relationship to third wave feminism, but what about... first wave? I'm totally geeking out that someone actually loves Alice Paul enough to make a parody video about her. And excluding women of color from the video, while annoying, is at least historically accurate
Tender Child Loins fucked around with this message at Mar 12, 2012 around 23:57
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I Am A Man And I Hate Feminism Because a Feminism Killed Andy Warhole
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It's actually kind of scary because one dude posted my phone number and a part of my address, to "prove" that they're online. Thankfully it didn't get picked up. These people are known to pounce on that opportunity.
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aaa look what he does to the onions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0PzMvKvmkI
that part starts around 7:30 but the whole thing is fascinating
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reddit is the worst website on the Internet and not just because of the child porn
Aside from the "I was in X and I found this guy" posts people post some interesting content
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Also there wasn't even any child porn in there. That's like saying Lartigue is porn.
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Also there wasn't even any child porn in there. That's like saying Lartigue is porn.
Hi Inri.
Also taking random pictures of 7 year old girls from Facebook and making comments about how you'd like to rape them is the same as Lartigue??
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you didn't notice he was inri until he said that
good fucking job inri you blew it
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Hi Inri.
Also taking random pictures of 7 year old girls from Facebook and making comments about how you'd like to rape them is the same as Lartigue??
Don't forget posting screencaps from a movie that was banned BECAUSE IT WAS DETERMINED TO BE CHILD PORN. Make no mistake, they were posting nude pictures of pre-pubescent children in public. You can imagine what they were doing in private. The reddit admins did nothing because they're best buds with one of the top child porn dudes. By the way, the sort of stuff that was posted in /r/jailbait? That's disgusting too. But the point is that even if you wanted to argue on that end, they were absolutely posting nudes of small children. This isn't some grey area. Aside from the toxic as fuck community though the whole up/downvote system is a good way to completely silence minority opinions if you're a determined bigot.
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Yeah you're right. They were probably luring children with snes games and raping them repeatedly. Good call Velfarre!
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It's like you people don't have any problems because you live in a perfect sheltered world and have to make them up
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Better yet you have to import them
I'll stop this now, I can feel my cortisol concentration rising
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Yeah you're right. They were probably luring children with snes games and raping them repeatedly. Good call Velfarre!
lol yeah unless there's active rape it's alllll good.
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our sheltered world is so perfect we literally have to make up new problems. like "child porn". completely fictional.
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our sheltered world is so perfect we literally have to make up new problems. like "child porn". completely fictional.
i know right??? next let's make up "domestic violence", that's another one the reddit admins' buddy likes to promote
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The only domestic violence you know about is cow tipping, shut the fuck up
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HEY WHY DON'T WE GO AROUND THE INTERNET WORRYING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS
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For your information I don't even have a fucking family anymore because of domestic violence so shut up and go cry in a corner about other people's problems
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For your information I don't even have a fucking family anymore because of domestic violence so shut up and go cry in a corner about other people's problems
I don't really believe anything you say to begin with, sorry!
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girl next door getting punched in the face by her boyfriend every day?? heh who cares
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average reddit user (http://www.reddit.com/user/KyngSyez)
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No, wait, that's right, I forgot I lived in denmark and had a perfect life with my two gay dads and I just happen to troll in GW because it's a form of entertainment
Also that reddit is pretty funny and he comes from the country with the best education in the world. So much for a welfare state breeding liberal hippies I guess.
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The only domestic violence you know about is cow tipping, shut the fuck up
lol yeah it's not like someone close to me in my family was a victim of domestic violence among other things, thanks for that though! ! ! continue being mad about (??) if you want ! ! !
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Yeah you clearly know all about it from personal experience!
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Go fuck a cow or something
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Yeah you clearly know all about it from personal experience!
I know nothing about domestic abuse, does that mean I should ignore it completely as if it doesn't exist? Not an ironic question.
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Compare the effects. Does it make a difference to ignore or not? In your case I don't think so but you're free to believe whatever you want inside your little cubicle of perfection and superior political opinions.
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HEY WHY DON'T WE GO AROUND THE INTERNET WORRYING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS
I understand you saying that ironically, but in the right context it is actually something quite unavoidable.
FOR INSTANCE: I started by innocuously clicking a link in the "What game are you playing" topic. I kept clicking around (like people who are both bored and have internet are prone to do) until It ended with me finding out I was born and raised entirely conditioned to live in a world that embraces something called "rape culture". (If you think that sounds like the most awful thing ever, you would be surprised to find out just how much worse than that it actually is.)
Maybe that's a bad example. Since after finding out what rape culture entails myself, I also found out that it's not somebody else's problem as much as it is everybody's problem.
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ARGH. And HB wonders why I got upset at some of the slurs in the chain game video game;
Dada, when someone's upset is not the time to provoke them.
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The only domestic violence you know about is cow tipping, shut the fuck up
alahahahahahaha
he's doing it all over again
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Dada, when someone's upset is not the time to provoke them.
I agree but I don't believe a word of what he says.
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i don't understand this
i'm attending a conference on web design hosted by a guy who is attempting to be don draper and a man who is attempting to be david cross. i imagine them like the odd couple, where one flicks a clove cigarette on to the ground and the other disapprovingly picks it up with the corner of his ipad
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also: i want to see a video which is KORNY 2012 and features the crimes against humanity of jonathan davis
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*Wishes HB/Dad wasn't ignoring him* I wanna make certain my "tweaking" of his work doesn't end up changing it totally, and would love feedback. I DID say I'd send it to him for inspection before sending it on to the next person, so I guess i can do that.
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clicking thumbs up on both of those posts tristero
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alahahahahahaha
he's doing it all over again
She lives in kentucky and her dad breeds lethal superbacteria by feeding cows with corn. She'll probably be responsible for a pandemic or something
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Ugh. *has his head on straight now* Actually I think I did a good job and I'm not gonna be worrying. I'll drop it off for a review before sending it on to Renegade. Now I gotta go to bed. Yay groceries!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ77qsLrpw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ77qsLrpw)
I love math
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Interesting.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ77qsLrpw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ77qsLrpw)
I love math
that's cool
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She lives in kentucky and her dad breeds lethal superbacteria by feeding cows with corn. She'll probably be responsible for a pandemic or something
you are a superbacteria
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Farren you're probably the only GW member I actually respect
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wow thanks mince.
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Probably
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ugh I gotta get a phone tomorrow bc mine's broken (puked all over it and then dropped it a toilet bowl full of diarrhea). with my _contract_ I essentially have a choice between supporting the worst obese green destructive healthy exploitative personal megacorporation ever and having an iphone in college (feel gross everyday), or looking like some weird outsider contrarian with his dumb windows or android phone. iphone 3 is actually the cheapest option I think I'm gonna puke
great idea earl let's pay MORE attention to this toxic garbage. would an admin please delete this whole topic of discussion from ever existing
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Heh, first world problems. I can barely operate a landline telephone.
If you had an iphone you could program a topography app for third world architecture students. Like, not one that shows a google map or some dumb useless shit like that, but one that recorded latitude, longitude and ground height so you could reconstruct the terrain later from the point cloud.
Now, I know someone stalks me for my fabulous ideas. Go on. Steal that one too.
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count yourself as lucky bud. this is a nightmare.
there IS something like that with GPS, just not for third-world students. in order to do that I believe I'd need legal access to topography data and I don't believe that'd come free. it wouldn't be precise regardless, but you'd be able to ballpark it.
I guess third world students don't have access to GIS software either huh.
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I decided to 'get off my ass' and work on my game, try to fix my collision issues that I've been stuck on for what seems like weeks, maybe months, and then in what must have been a spot of sheer luck I figured out the problem.
Unfortunately, my obsession with that single issue has kept me from working on the rest of the game. All the objects in the game are still basically stationary walls with a player that can move around a level full of said walls. BUT HEY AT LEAST SHIT COLLIDES ACCURATELY. And I can have a player speed that isn't a divisor or multiple of 32 with out the collision wigging out on me.
In any case, its kind of rekindled my coding spirit a bit, so I'm going to probably be actually working it rather than playing Black Ops/Minecraft/Twisted Metal. I hope to one day finally work on the actual game mechanics. (AKA the fun part to code) At the moment though, spending the past 3 hours or so, late into the night, on this single problem has kind of made me sleepy/headachey. So I'm going to hit the sack, I just hope I feel as enthusiastic tomorrow to code as I do now (only well rested).
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count yourself as lucky bud. this is a nightmare.
there IS something like that with GPS, just not for third-world students. in order to do that I believe I'd need legal access to topography data and I don't believe that'd come free. it wouldn't be precise regardless, but you'd be able to ballpark it.
I guess third world students don't have access to GIS software either huh.
The whole point of making an iphone app is 1) iphone has gps 2) it's mostly, if not fully programmable 3) some people have iphones 4) therefore you can survey a site for free without a total station if you own an iphone or know someone who does, without paying for topographical data or using outdated and inaccurate databases or extracting the terrain from google earth (inaccurate too, at least for this region), and then use the points to build the terrain in Revit or any other software
If I had the resources to make it I'd probably be able to pay rent
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She lives in kentucky and her dad breeds lethal superbacteria by feeding cows with corn. She'll probably be responsible for a pandemic or something
Why are you such an angry, vindicative piece of shit, anyway? Also not an ironic question.
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2 many chromosomes
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Don't retarded people have too many chromosomes?
Edit: Same here inri I think you're just misunderstood.
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The whole point of making an iphone app is 1) iphone has gps 2) it's mostly, if not fully programmable 3) some people have iphones 4) therefore you can survey a site for free without a total station if you own an iphone or know someone who does, without paying for topographical data or using outdated and inaccurate databases or extracting the terrain from google earth (inaccurate too, at least for this region), and then use the points to build the terrain in Revit or any other software
If I had the resources to make it I'd probably be able to pay rent
oh. it'd only really be useful in determining change of elevation, and you can do that with a string, measuring tape/stick and level. the app would also be more inaccurate and not really a survey, but I guess relatively quick
virtually(?) every mobile phone has gps tho. you could probably even do this with a web tool, maybe it already exists
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2 many chromosomes
I'm not even being ironic here, you got banned for being terrible (and I'd have banned this account too if I had known it was you) and here you are doing the exact same thing again.
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Perhaps discuss this in private?
Anyway, HB is right, I was taking things way too seriously.
Now i have to get serious about prepping for my job expo tomorrow, but i can listen to the Cults live while I do. Also Frankie Rose (IS that a good band?)
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oh. it'd only really be useful in determining change of elevation, and you can do that with a string, measuring tape/stick and level. the app would also be more inaccurate and not really a survey, but I guess relatively quick
virtually(?) every mobile phone has gps tho. you could probably even do this with a web tool, maybe it already exists
Well it is just an idea, if I had an iphone like everyone of the 99% does I could make a proof of concept and either I'd become filthy rich or nothing would happen. Either way the iphone GPS thing would still be useful because you'd still need to record accurate coordinates in order for the elevation determining procedure to be useful at all. Earlchips the whole point is exploiting lazyness, not doing things the hard way
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I get it, I get it! we're just spitballin' - learn that term well if you endeavor to become a big wig app dev
I think phone GPS (including smartphones like iphone) is only accurate to ~20 feet though. but you're right, if you could make an app like that you'd probably reel in the big bucks. my professor knew the guys who developed GIS, but they all live on private islands now
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My dad called me an asshole last night.
Not offended or anything, I basically dismiss almost everything he says, and when he's drunk like he was, I dismiss absolutely everything.
But he's never called me an asshole before, so it just kind of shocked me at the nerve of it. He's called my half brother an asshole (on my mom's side) before, but he isn't his son. *shrugs*
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202
this is pretty much the saddest thing if you guys haven't read it
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on a less depressing note,
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/7eu9Ml.jpeg)
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:(
then
D'awww
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lulz
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/kony-2012-filmmaker-arrested-san-diego-205649394.html
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That looks clearly like a KGB fabrication
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http://readmyaudiotapes.tumblr.com/ check out our new music blog (vellfire, dicko, plantation, hundley and myself)
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202)
this is pretty much the saddest thing if you guys haven't read it
*SNARRRLLLLLL* >​ >​ >​
I'd like to anal-rape that school board with a nail bat and torture them slowly to death in the most gruesome way possible. . . they deserve it. *too enraged to finish the entire article right now* >​ >​ >​
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6844145666_1aec7658f2_d.jpeg)
Sorry Steam, but you couldn't pay me to play that.
(kidding of course I wanted to see what would happen if I tried to buy it and it just failed to get added to my cart)
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My dad called me an asshole last night.
Not offended or anything, I basically dismiss almost everything he says, and when he's drunk like he was, I dismiss absolutely everything.
But he's never called me an asshole before, so it just kind of shocked me at the nerve of it. He's called my half brother an asshole (on my mom's side) before, but he isn't his son. *shrugs*
My dad drinks alot and calls me an asshole everytime I take long enough to talk to him to get that far. When I was little he'd call me "jackass" most of the time. I'm older now so I just tell him to stfu with his old decrepit ass and hang up on him most of the time when he's drunk. I don't really talk to him alot anyways and ts a pretty dysfunctional relationship but it works enough not to go through all the awkward bullshit of fixing it.
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Does anyone know if it's OK to put google adsense ads in a facebook application?
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edit: deleted links
Love it how today you can watch random people on the internet and they won't even know it. I feel like the government.
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Actually I feel kinda safe. I can't imagine the government peeking at millions of people doing stupid boring stuff for hours for any reason at all. LOL TERRORISM. I think even if they had access to every camera that is accessible through the internet, and had massive amounts of computational power, even if they had control of the biggest botnets in existence today and could use them to analyze people's behavior it would still be way too easy to get away with committing terrorist attacks of pretty much any kind if you're devoted enough to your cause
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Actually I feel kinda safe. I can't imagine the government peeking at millions of people doing stupid boring stuff for hours for any reason at all. LOL TERRORISM. I think even if they had access to every camera that is accessible through the internet, and had massive amounts of computational power, even if they had control of the biggest botnets in existence today and could use them to analyze people's behavior it would still be way too easy to get away with committing terrorist attacks of pretty much any kind if you're devoted enough to your cause
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1
tell that to the NSA
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Love it how today you can watch random people on the internet and they won't even know it. I feel like the government.
Apparently these webcams were publicly viewable due to a security exploit. I removed the links because we ain't taking part in that.
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http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1 (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1)
tell that to the NSA
I'm luring them into a false sense of security he he
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Apparently these webcams were publicly viewable due to a security exploit. I removed the links because we ain't taking part in that.
By the way how can the links even show up in google?
No justifying or anything
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I think I get it now
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By the way how can the links even show up in google?
No justifying or anything
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I think I get it now
Because you keep postin' them to salt world.
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NOnonono, someone posted them on the internet before I did
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http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know (http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know)
everything is awful
e: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/abortion-breast-cancer-new-hampshire-_n_1345771.html
ahahah tea party controlled house of representatives requires doctors to LIE TO WOMEN excellent great job america
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NOnonono, someone posted them on the internet before I did
Yeah I was being facetious, but it's because people post them to websites like this that they get on Google.
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I know but what I hadn't figured out was how they acquire all those links in first place. I don't think there is a place where people go "Oh look my neighbor set up a cam that you can view from the internets", so I'm guessing people do port scans on a a few million IP's and then they post the links on whatever secret magical place they use to do that and then the link list ends up in pastebin
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I know but what I hadn't figured out was how they acquire all those links in first place. I don't think there is a place where people go "Oh look my neighbor set up a cam that you can view from the internets", so I'm guessing people do port scans on a a few million IP's and then they post the links on whatever secret magical place they use to do that and then the link list ends up in pastebin
I'm assuming that that's what happened pretty much.
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Apparently Legend of Korra episode 1 got leaked. It was supposed to premiere mid April. To those who want it (since I know a couple of you were interested in it) http://is.gd/CkkBiZ (http://is.gd/CkkBiZ)
It's pretty much an exact continuation of the style of the last one.
I like that the first thing they do is mess with the fans.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/tennessee-abortion-bill_n_1363410.html
every state in the US is tripping over itself to try to make the absolute worst abortion policies possible. tennessee just upped their game with "PUBLICLY RELEASE TONS OF INFORMATION ABOUT EVERY SINGLE WOMAN WHO GETS AN ABORTION" including "age, race, county, marital status, education level, number of children, the location of the procedure and how many times she has been pregnant"
Well Kentucky, we've never liked losing anything to Tennessee so it's time to just sentence women who get abortions to death I guess.
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*Adds the Utah Data center to the Fringe tools, then continues reading the article to address real-life concerns.*
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Well Kentucky, we've never liked losing anything to Tennessee so it's time to just sentence women who get abortions to death I guess.
iirc there were some serious proposals floating around to charge doctors performing abortions with murder.
Here's a must-view statistic pertaining to anti-abortion legislation: http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2011/07/13/index.html
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because we all know making abortions difficult/illegal reduces the number of abortions
oh wait it doesn't ! ! ! ! it just means more women get back-alley abortions and DIE FROM IT oh well who cares ~*~women~*~
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Russia is a better country because it has legal abortions
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I'm not even the kind of person who goes around saying HEY YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ABORTION GOD SAYS SO but isn't it much cheaper and healthier to just carry a concealed handgun and just stop fucking? I know some people who got pregnant, carried the gestation to full term and don't even know who the father is. Do people actually expect not to go pregnant when they have sexual intercourse without contraception? I mean, you have to try quite a few times because you only have a 20-25% chance of actually getting pregnant and by then you've probably exposed yourself to a few hundred different STDs because today people have to fuck a dozen or so people before they find one they actually like rather than doing the opposite. YAY FOR WOMEN RIGHTS OK but abstinence is cheaper and it's not like being a sexually active person is like heroin addiction. By the way heroin doesn't cause pregnancy either and is much more satisfying than fucking random strangers you met in a bar.
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I'm all for individual rights and stuff but this is completely dysgenic, you have people who shouldn't be breeding having 9 children and all the pro-abortion arguments except "but it's safer in a hospital and my body my rights" don't apply to them unless you advocate compulsory abortion and sterilization (which I wouldn't be against by the way)
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BAH-DUM PSHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Mince you have some points- people are careless- but the alternative is lots of extra babies which is a strain on the population. Frankly While i think that women ought to have abortions if they wish we need to educate society so people are in the habiot of being more responsible in the first place. *Says the gay virgin*
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education is hecka important and surprise! ! ! most of the people who are against abortion are also for abstinence only sex education. HMMMMMMMmmmm wonder why that doesn't work out for them...
of course not all abortions are caused from accidental pregnancies, a decent number of them are babies that are likely to be stillborn or not survive otherwise, like in the article i posted on the last page or wherever.
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u can get pregnant even w/ contraception mince
lots of ppl don't abstain bc sex is prob the most powerful drive for most ppl
you seem like someone who'd think overpopulation is a big issue, you should be pro abortion
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The "overpopulation" one is the one argument that doesn't work as a pro-abortion argument. See, smarter people like you delay pregnancy until the 30's which is the time when you're most likely to have a miscarriage / horribly deformed baby but dumb people start REAL SOON AND WON'T STOP POPPING OUT RETARDLETS. That way you're breeding more and more people who will be against-abortion or whatever it is you associate with stupid people.
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I had a dream about an anime Porgy and Bess last night
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I had a dream about a Deus Ex game where you found chocolate bars and they appeared in real life, so you could save your game before opening a drawer that contained a chocolate bar, retrieve it, load the game and repeat the process. Then I woke up disappointed
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Stupid is as stupid does, right Mince?
While I haven't actually read this far yet in Homestuck, I'm aware of this via the wiki- but i never expected Doc Scratch to be this terrifying.
http://youtu.be/6bm6RvQdvqM (http://youtu.be/6bm6RvQdvqM)
And youtube tags plZ?
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I had a dream about an anime Porgy and Bess last night
summer time, and the living is kaiwaii
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summer time, and the living is kaiwaii
summertime and the living is neighborhood?
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the guys that made cowboy bebop are apparently working on a new series about a high school jazz band in the 60s. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8M4pO4tBs
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summertime and the living is neighborhood?
kawaii*
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Just read an article about a down syndrome woman who had a baby with an "intellectually challenged" person
Oh boy
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is it your brother?
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I had a dream about a new seth macfarlane show called "Male Jesus" coming to fox in order to fill the void left by cult classic Allen Gregory. the commercial showed a college guy who looked like a thinner, more popular version of the son from Family Guy, in an apartment kitchen w/ absurd variety of appliances. he accidentally cuts his finger off (cooking being a job more suited for women of course) and yells "Jesus fucking Christ!"; then there is a magical poof and a bored-looking Jesus appears, and he deadpans something offensive-sounding about not fucking hos. jesus looks at the screen before the commercial cuts to the show's logo, featuring the idyllic, kouros male bro and his pal jesus
the last part was probably influenced by the chapter I'm on in saints row, where this guy who talks in autotune makes you drive around his hos
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No farren , it's you and yo momma
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Yo momma so fat she doesn't lose weight from AIDS
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so when are we going to have a topic about The Hunger Games and how as far as I've seen so far it's not like controversial movie at all and essentially is shiny orange teal American repackaging of Battle Royale and PG-13 (!!!) and whatnot and it seems like GIRL POWER Nickelodeon in the 90's kids rule adults stink somehow from what I've seen. Would be awesome if it was bleak as fuck traumatizing unsuspecting teenagers and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIuRjqcpuGQ&t=1m30s aphexface
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i am planning on reading the hunger games soon but from what i've heard about it yeah it is basically battle royale but takes place in appalachia and idk how that could possibly be bad
of course part of what made battle royale so good is that these kids were classmates whereas in hunger games they're from different districts or w/e so it kind of loses out on CAN YOU KILL YOUR BEST FRIEND so i'm not expecting it to be nearly as amazing just maybe entertaining for a few???
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why do only scary hipster witches like me
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Maybe you picked up a bad hoodoo at a flea market ? :P
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why do only scary hipster witches like me
sounds good
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since nobody but Biggles checks out the Music Releases forum
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/claymation-barista
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amazing & cured my diseases
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Music Releases should really be a subforum of Artistry as opposed to Advertising.
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4 years,so long yet so short.
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why do only scary hipster witches like me
I've only ever seen pictures of you with asians
I would GLADLY take that anyday over self-destructive nymphomaniac
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why do only scary hipster witches like me
same, dude
except they're not really scary, just literally children. just think of them like bugs or something: you're much smarter than them and could prob. crush them if u wanted,,, just don't let them crawl through yr ear and into yr brain where they can cause damage
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People who are classified with Autistic Spectrum Disorder tend to communicate metaphorically rather than with common phrases. It is currently not known why they can do this, although they also express other abnormalities from level 1 and 2 psychedelic experiences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphorical_language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphorical_language)
what the hell is this? I've never heard of this. Is this one of those wiki-edit things?
Like I could fathom the speaking only metaphorically which is interesting as shit because you'd think it would take a higher level of communicative intelligence and understanding of language but what does the last part mean? I dunno it just seems kind of backwards to me that autism is supposed to be a social developmental disorder but you have an illness that can cause people to speak entirely in metaphor. Well I guess its just as possible as some of the crazy mathmatical stuff they can do and I know there are some that do it with art too like drawing NYC in its entirity from a single flight over the city. But with language something that is directly related to communication and social skills, how the fuck does that work? Have I been trolled or am missing something?
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actually I was thinking about this I guess a lot of savants have synesthesia like that Pi guy sees the digits of pi as psychedelic Lisa Frank landscape (I'm not joking) and if that isn't a way out there metaphor for numbers I don't know what is. And 'they' (forgot who actually) think that the same crosstalk has to do with people thinking metaphorically like creative people are creative because they have extra wires so they're all like 'dogs are like butterscotch ripple ice cream' etc. etc.
And uh I kind of think that artistic/autistic people (get it? conspiracy) are like opposite but maybe like autistic people have like huge bunches of wiring in their left brain while artistic people have too much wiring in their right brain. And people like the Pi guy who should be a vegetable that can just happen to recite pi instead is halfway normal/capable because maybe he has extra wiring in both. Also too much wiring in your right brain makes you some halfway crazy artist while autism is supposed to be super-literal. (like sensitivity to sound could be because they're hearing literal changes in volume? Meanwhile normal people have a kind of compressor in their brains that makes gunshot not incredibly deafening but loud enough) But yeah metaphor isn't thinking literally (or is it?) I guess it could be for creative problems or literal/math problems, either case it helps to have extra angles of attack/ways around a problem (the extra wiring thing). So if it helps you to see Pi as tasty colorful rainbow bryce landscape that's cool
also maybe autistic people are like creative on the inside like I said creative brain circuitry angles to solve problems, but can't project/express said creativity for shit. Like everything is literally mind-blowing but then you forget it or no effability to it and therefore Sonic the Hedgehog is fascinating. Also maybe some deeply autistic person sees life as a cubist painting (Cubist Reggae??) but has no ability to describe things/put it to paper etc. Conception vs. expression, outside-inside. Sociopaths outwardly look like normal average people. Obviously we need to give autistic children deep pineal gland massage because it's the link between mind and body, input and output. Autistic people already had the DMT in their heads drop that's why they like crappy techno music
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they're hella fuckin interesting and i'm kinda jealous/astonished of the idea of a mind that sees the world all the time in a novelty way. this is vain shit i know but i have to work a lot to remember/feel these things despite some advantages. also isn't it kinda known that lemme think, uh was it autistic people who can't just compress/filter information so they get into a familiar room and they see BAM 36 pens, groan 2 of the pens are blunt groaannn who did this...must sharpen it- GROANNN THE TRASHCAN IS MOVED... what an useless post with some/little real facts but search around what i said here.
hmm. hmmm. no-joke i try to be creatibe/do something useful with the rest of the post. lemme think. okay.
FAAAAAAARTTTT!!!! *squishy, juicy fart!! splurrrrt faaaarttt *cackle cackle cackle fart FART FART, it's armpit farts with failures! sorry i got diarrhea and i had the idea of filling the rest of the post meticulously described progress of events/like a movie time-event relation of howhat farts i did and when. but it wasn't so funny and i lost to steam IMMIDIATELY, this limp dick...
edit i actually got a little diarhea today to my pants which is like SUPER-RARE. i guess that influenced this post of the day. hmm. you know, ASSOCIATION. ... stares into spaces... hmm but yeah i don't usually have that. really, never. it was suprising but i was smooth/no problems occured/no love lost. yeahhhhh. that's all folks!
editedit i'm still pissed with the vain/stupid jealousy, i have to clarify, i just like the idea of brain constantly wired into permanent NEW EXPERIENCE okay. it'd be incredibly useful to an artist/to an ragnar. harumph, stomp, throws head.
+edit+ sigh, i'm sorry about mentioning the diarhea. diarrea? well like i know you guys don't really mind but i started thinking that well, maybe it's still not okay. it's a little disgusting even if it's just a one case. pondering: is a person mentioning diarhea once in sw disgusting or is the person who constantly updates on his hellishly loose bowel movements weekly/daily accurately? maybe there's no distinction at all but i kinda don't want to believe that....
nah, no, well america is america and us is us but but idk. yes actually YES, i'll agree that mentioning diarrhea once is bit unnecessary (i mentioned twice?). it's diarrhea, not your regular bowel movement right? so it's not easy to just casually throw it in a familiar circle, no? since it's exceptional and even if it's a freeminded/marxists intelligents even lenin would support his bones on... it's still exceptional and it's something that gets... well, i'm not entirely sure but a little over the recognition/lenience/friends-people u know and who are okay in u books radar?-
yes, the last one is perhaps the most correct expression i was looking for. friends-people u know and who are okay in u books radar. i doubt even in this area being a casual bro about something exceptional - i mean you COULD pull reg. feces off with good bros but maybe not diarrhea! yes, excelent, THAT'S my point. so i guess the bottom line is that don't worry, it's nothing serious and very easy to manage that situation (i was smooth/quick, he came from the bathroom window/anny are u okay he left SHITstains on the carpet (III DONNNNNT KNOOOOOOOOOOWWWW ahhhahaha))). i'll never mention diarrhea again so casually/graphically. thanks for pludging through this strange uh humanmade... byte...swamp? wondering in quiet respect/astonishment the scale of the swamp, the beauty of it etc, nature-trekking. maybe uh i should put a reward of sort at the end of this? check out the song the associate by associates from utube. maybe it's the proper atmosphere to the post.
same, dude
except they're not really scary, just literally children. just think of them like bugs or something: you're much smarter than them and could prob. crush them if u wanted,,, just don't let them crawl through yr ear and into yr brain where they can cause damage
ahhaha fistpump. Thanks Tut, Gramps, Choom Gang, and Ray for all the good times.
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metaphor is thinking literally but conveying in a non-literate or alternative manner. its like saying something indirectly. Its used in alot of poetry and musics.
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Farren spews forth golden streams of wisdom, enlightening us all with his radiant nuggets.
(META4S)
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MY AUTISM PRIMER. WOW:
fyi i'm diagnosed autistic and it's really hard to explain more or less. like from a young age i was really exposed to lots of abstract cultural concepts so i haven't had as much of a problem with that even though i have to place literal places or objects onto abstracts. in this regard i can associate various locations and events with emotions and concepts which has made it much easier on me in a lot of ways. but one of the things also is that being hypersensitive and actually having an idea of how to express yourself through some means makes the world really confusing and scary if you have to explain it to others since most people think i'm overreacting/talking about nothing. so it almost ends up being pointless anyway, if not a bit worse (at least in the case of telling other people). these days i have one friend who lives with me and we do stuff together but otherwise i'm pretty much a recluse who only goes outside at night usually(only time downtown is quiet/the light doesn't hurt my eyes).
but yeah i can remember stuff very clearly going back to 1 1/2 years old, and can remember the layout of lots of buildings if i try to map them. i associate everything with these memories or other narratives so i have built a kind of ever-shifting memory palace to form a character around. i have handled autism a lot differently than most people i know so it's always confused people a lot but it's a very strange experience. like i have spent most of my life teaching myself various skills and reading a lot on various subjects but i still feel entirely clueless. i can write music, program, draw okay, etc. but it all feels like some sort of imaginary systematic tool and that's about it to me. the process of creation is interesting all around but i have a hard time with trying to understand things on objective terms or even actually caring about finishing things. on top of this one of my favorite things is using new materials and certain textures/"feelings" that go along with them and that makes it hard too since my work usually becomes overly dense or i can't finish it because i don't feel there's enough variation with materials. but yeah the thing is that for me even though i've had an easier time than most it's still hard to express on terms most people understand.
btw i like techno music/tracker music/ambient/noise music/other weird repetitive electronic stuff because the sensation that certain sounds give/the physical response of having a beat in my head is really comforting. so i hope that explains it somewhat at least for people who wonder about that stuff lol. i don't really know what else to add but if anyone wants to know stuff about LIFE AS AUTISTIC WOMAN let me know
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MY AUTISM PRIMER. WOW:
fyi i'm diagnosed autistic and it's really hard to explain more or less. like from a young age i was really exposed to lots of abstract cultural concepts so i haven't had as much of a problem with that even though i have to place literal places or objects onto abstracts. in this regard i can associate various locations and events with emotions and concepts which has made it much easier on me in a lot of ways. but one of the things also is that being hypersensitive and actually having an idea of how to express yourself through some means makes the world really confusing and scary if you have to explain it to others since most people think i'm overreacting/talking about nothing. so it almost ends up being pointless anyway, if not a bit worse (at least in the case of telling other people). these days i have one friend who lives with me and we do stuff together but otherwise i'm pretty much a recluse who only goes outside at night usually(only time downtown is quiet/the light doesn't hurt my eyes).
but yeah i can remember stuff very clearly going back to 1 1/2 years old, and can remember the layout of lots of buildings if i try to map them. i associate everything with these memories or other narratives so i have built a kind of ever-shifting memory palace to form a character around. i have handled autism a lot differently than most people i know so it's always confused people a lot but it's a very strange experience. like i have spent most of my life teaching myself various skills and reading a lot on various subjects but i still feel entirely clueless. i can write music, program, draw okay, etc. but it all feels like some sort of imaginary systematic tool and that's about it to me. the process of creation is interesting all around but i have a hard time with trying to understand things on objective terms or even actually caring about finishing things. on top of this one of my favorite things is using new materials and certain textures/"feelings" that go along with them and that makes it hard too since my work usually becomes overly dense or i can't finish it because i don't feel there's enough variation with materials. but yeah the thing is that for me even though i've had an easier time than most it's still hard to express on terms most people understand.
btw i like techno music/tracker music/ambient/noise music/other weird repetitive electronic stuff because the sensation that certain sounds give/the physical response of having a beat in my head is really comforting. so i hope that explains it somewhat at least for people who wonder about that stuff lol. i don't really know what else to add but if anyone wants to know stuff about LIFE AS AUTISTIC WOMAN let me kn-
GAAARGOOONHEEEEEEDDD*gargonherd shrieks as purple orangutan leaps out of nowhere and strangle-hugs, bonzi bwaahhhahhaaa's as gargon is screaming & freaking out in his long orangutan arms* basically yeah that's pretty interesting + cool that you open up about it!! so uh by new favorite things, do you mean you do some kind of actual/physical material compositions/collages with different materials or do you also mean like music by this? i still have to get my mind around what you said in your post exactly but i kinda understand (or lol relate) with music and using textures/atmospheres/feelings since they cause a physical shift in me.
i was diagnozed with dysphasia at the age of 5 i think? because my speech developement was coming slow and i talked in a language that only my parents understood. idk if wikipedia/internet has stuff about it (i never checked) but as a short description: you might have heard about dyslexia in which eg talking might be compromised/crude and written comprehension is much worse? well, dysfasia i guess is... problems comprehending things in general? like the way i perceive on abstract level is different/more complex or difficult. idk, my dysfasia was luckily just slight so people are usually suprised when/if i reveal this about myself. i saw a TV program with some harder dysfasia and i could really emphasize/recognize my problems in her. there's lot of interesting cases about it esp in my childhood (since on many occasions adults were about to give up with me/try to send me to school for handicapped and my parents had to fought for me) so i can tell you some examples of my goofy childhood if interested...
but i kinda dunno if they seem special?/if they are anything special. this is kinda hard to explain (not so hard as your thing though) and for the most part of my life i'm left wondering that what things this has and still affects me or has shaped the way i percieve things. i apparently created word onomatopoetically (sp?) (like make up words that sound like THEY SHOULD BE/sound "natural") in kintergarden because that's how it felt right (thus only my parents understood me perfectly). i still kinda do this but i'm pretty smart so it's either really unnoticable or that i don't actually need to create words since i know...everything by now u know?? i also uh have to search for words a lot sometimes which is kinda noticable if you know me for a longer time and the feeling is like trailing around this unseen object and your circling around it blindly possibly sticking unto words that onomatopoetically are similiar. there's just a huge layer of learnt cultural stuff and language that i can use effectively so it's hard to tell where the problems are sometimes.
idk, then there is stuff like seeing certain kind of colours while listening to music (i think it has to do with tone/timbre/texture of the music and it's certain colours against black backdrop...or like uh colours... a colour fill/blot/shape against a black space? a certain kind of space that can be filled with colour also to a certain extent? sometimes i've seen new colours but those are rare/makes me wonder how tightly this is related to association). the sound of space/texture is pretty important to me for some reason and i focus a lot on it. my whole first mixtape (and the second one to some extent) was based around this task of trying to shape my musical history and focuses into a singular mixtape with cohesive narrative (based mostly on how the song sounded, that specific mp3 and version/rendition of the song) of how the tone/atmosphere/musically the emotions change thorough the journey. in retrospect, it seems to be less about musical history and interestingly more of a shape ... of things to come??/whoops i mean that uh shapes of how i perceive music, pinpoints it. whops sorry enough of my mixtapes.
listening to elliott smith was NUTS for the time being because i could physically feel the chord progressions in his song (man Sorry My Mistake is a pretty good example, i could tell in which direction in 3d space it moved) so obviously i'm pretty interested in them.
then there's the just actually comprehending music differnetly... man fuck i mean i comprehend LOT of stuff differently but i feel like a fucking freak/outsider when talking about music which makes me miserable lot of times so i actually i think i'm musically/abstractilly?? closer to Ragnar even if our musical preferences and focuses are totally differenet/opposite in many ways. it's hard for me to talk/bring up music because of this. it just seems...faux or false or faux-artisitic when i'm just sensitive to this stuff and i get really depressed/sometimes physically sick listening to eg hipster pop indie pop because i can't stand some of the elements/values in it. i could talk more about the latter issue more indephtly but i'm not expecting any empathy or aggreeament on it and tbh it feels fuckign disgusting sometimes because of how people react hostily on talking bad about their favorite music (and perhaps about their musicality? idk). sorry, enough about depression/self-pity stuff.
idk man if i start listing all the stuff i might find some patterns/actual clues to dysfasia but most of the time i have no idea what's going on and why i'm thinking/working the way i do and it's kinda depressing in how different/sometimes alienated i feel with it. esp with music it's sometimes hard. i can't discern my life experiences and music experiences, it's too hard and feels like hurting myself. sorry i'll shut up now.
edit prompted me to finally read about it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_language_impairment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_language_impairment). Yeah, i kinda need exact directioning because there's so many ways to misunderstand/mistranslate what the others mean. exams/essays are like hell. this is kinda interesting, i need to study this. i'm still puzzled how much this could affect since language/logic/reasoning/music or whatever logical or social systems probably have some common root/foundation.
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i have spent most of my life teaching myself various skills and reading a lot on various subjects but i still feel entirely clueless.
you and me too broman, thats cool as shit though you were willing to share that with us. Thanks.
btw i like techno music/tracker music/ambient/noise music/other weird repetitive electronic stuff because the sensation that certain sounds give/the physical response of having a beat in my head is really comforting.
you mean like some kind of instrumental mental metronome? I kind of do the same thing with melodies. I keep em in my head and they repeat over and over and over until I either lose interest or get tired of it.
to me it seems like you're just as capable of artistic expression and portrayal as anyone else. You just have a unique way of what and how you're doing it maybe? I'd prolly have to see what you're talkin about to fully understand though. Because like bonzi said its a little hard to visualize.
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ADHD here; also math LD (I think.)
Anyway, everyone- including hopefully Gargonherd- please go and look at the sky tonight and tomorrow night after sunset. The planets Venus and Jupiter, which have been mysteriously hanging in the sky ("What's that?") for a couple of weeks now. The moon joins them this evening, which should be very pretty.
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you're pretty awful to swoop in like that and dish out the hurt before locking the topic, dada. are you sure you're ready to be an admin?
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I wasn't calling vel a hypocrite. she's not here to express any opinions. I was pointing out the issue with SOMEONE ELSE'S POST you stupid ass.
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are you sure you're ready to be an admin?
are you sure you're not 8 years old
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I wasn't calling vel a hypocrite.
you were literally calling out her objections to inri's posts based on "you also like a misogynistic song" and now "you also like this other website which is misogynistic".
now you're angry at me in the most juvenile way possible because I'm not running the site the way you want me to. yeah, you know what? I'm pretty willing to explain myself and my actions but you can't always have it your way.
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Yeah locking it like that is frustrating.
Just want to quickly say that calling my opinion insane is a little bit extreme. I really have no idea what she has dealt with here, but do not insinuate I'm taking Inri's side because that is untrue and actually offensive. I am not that sort of person nor do I condone it.
All I was saying is that if someone is bothering you, speak to an admin about their behaviour. If you are posting from a very opinionated standpoint ON A MALE DOMINATED GAMING FORUM shouldn't you also expect some idiots to have the exact opposite opinion? Isn't that logical?
If I came onto a christian website and my posts were laced with atheist beliefs I would expect some backlash, no that does not mean it's right but I also would know how to deal with it.
And do not read into me saying "later in life" it's just a phrase. That's all.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong and I'll listen but do not put me in the same category as the others, don't leap into insulting me thanks.
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Sorry double post.
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it's kinda funny, we all sort of had a common enemy before. ed's always been like that, you've always been like this, I've always been like this. gave us something to identify with each other over...maybe drule really was the savior of SW. actually nvm you were usually on his side
you were literally calling out her objections to inri's posts based on "you also like a misogynistic song" and now "you also like this other website which is misogynistic"
only that first one was a response to her, and the point wasn't to call her a hypocrite.
the second post, that was not my intention at all. in order for that to be true i'd have to know exactly why she left, and I don't. YOU have been saying it's because of misogyny, but that's you.
now you're angry at me in the most juvenile way possible because I'm not running the site the way you want me to. yeah, you know what? I'm pretty willing to explain myself and my actions but you can't always have it your way.
lol no you aren't. and juvenile, really? you're calling me juvenile for being upset that you accuse me of some awful shit and then lock the topic with a smirk? you're being pretty fucking awful to me, and for no good reason. is that how you handle power?
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If you are posting from a very opinionated standpoint ON A MALE DOMINATED GAMING FORUM shouldn't you also expect some idiots to have the exact opposite opinion? Isn't that logical?
If I came onto a christian website and my posts were laced with atheist beliefs I would expect some backlash, no that does not mean it's right but I also would know how to deal with it.
first of all you're pretending that she sort of brought this upon herself by going up against established dogma, and that's just not true. this started when inri started harassing her, not the other way around.
and yeah, of course she posts her opinion on the forum and people are going to disagree with it. but you're pretending that she left because of a simple, harmless difference in opinion that she couldn't handle. she left because people were (and STILL ARE) actively defending a complete misogynist and attacking her for having the gall to complain about being treated unfairly. that's not a simple matter of opinion. it's a matter of basic human decency.
I mean let's run with your analogy for a moment. that would imply this is a MAN'S FORUM and a woman shouldn't EXPECT to be welcome here, and should EXPECT to be harassed and for the harasser to be defended left and right.
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you're being pretty fucking awful to me, and for no good reason. is that how you handle power?
see, it's this sort of thing. "are you sure you're ready to be an admin?" "is this how you handle power?" you sound like a US presidential campaign ad. you don't care one bit about this whole situation or about the fact vellfire left, it's all about how YOU'VE been wronged and how I'm being mean to you.
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I'm not pretending anything, as I said I wasn't aware of any of the past history of Inri harassing her so I really did think that she left because of one topic with a few dorks. I've been actively saying this?? So me to it did look like she left because of a few comments.
But now i know differently so .. END
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delete this shit and get the fuck out you're shitting all over a good autism discussion.
I said I wasn't defending inri cus that shit was pretty much indefensable, the rape post. The other one was pretty shit too but like I said he had a point. Not with the attack on her but the perception of her behavior.
And no I don't think cus you people don't ever identify with gender generalizations you don't know shit about dating. Because you were telling a dude to give up on the girl he loved for three years without even trying to fight for her, come to some conclusion, or contemplate fighting for her; You don't know shit about relationships. TO ADD TO THAT! I keep seeing people mentioning men who react emotionally and can't come to conclusions. Women are just as capable of that.
but yeah cut my post and put it there too. I'm serious this was a really really good discussion. Dada's gettin' too emotional over the shit. I understand your frustration dude and we all appreciate vellfire (I like her and I don't think less of her and I'm pretty sure I didn't attack her at all for being a woman, just her opinion). Its a good discussion to have and mince has seen the error of his ways. I'm not saying problem all solved but you were actually making some sort of leeway on what earls been fighting about this whole time and the whole point I think he was trying to make?
Also earls gettin too emotional too. Fuckin forum and words dudes work it out and stop actin like kids.
yeah and I never expect you people to identify with generalizations but they do exist, people do fit them and live into them. Its human behavior. I'd never say you don't know shit by not accepting or thinking that, thats my own personal viewpoint. And still I do not think all people are the same but sometimes certain people definitely do follow behavioral patterns. Which I personally see as a bad thing. Following a set track without a certain level of intellectual complexity, reflection, and growth is a bad thing.
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I really think you should just delete the whole topic.
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I like the guy. He actually gives a shit about interesting things like science and engineering. He's also more creative than nearly all of you. I have to say I prefer that to just <<takes offence, writes crap>>.
It's interesting to see the recurrent labels you've built up to tar the guy with. That fucking misogynist.
No-one really leaves this website anyway. I'm sure I've left this site a few times but really it was just stuff that wasn't going my way. She'll be back to take offence another day.
He's pretty much come in to Dada's house and he didn't take his fucking shoes off. Take a poo son.
I like how I've been made out to be a woman hater when my signature was a parody made for her amusement too. Get me up on that cross.
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I like the guy. He actually gives a shit about interesting things like science and engineering. He's also more creative than nearly all of you. I have to say I prefer that to just <<takes offence, writes crap>>.
It's interesting to see the recurrent labels you've built up to tar the guy with. That fucking misogynist.
No-one really leaves this website anyway. I'm sure I've left this site a few times but really it was just stuff that wasn't going my way. She'll be back to take offence another day.
He's pretty much come in to Dada's house and he didn't take his fucking shoes off. Take a poo son.
I like how I've been made out to be a woman hater when my signature was a parody made for her amusement too. Get me up on that cross.
your comments in that topic were actually the worst and you feel completely justified about it too. you're a complete shithead who should really just leave this place forever in shame.
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I like the guy. He actually gives a shit about interesting things like science and engineering. He's also more creative than nearly all of you. I have to say I prefer that to just <<takes offence, writes crap>>.
It's interesting to see the recurrent labels you've built up to tar the guy with. That fucking misogynist.
No-one really leaves this website anyway. I'm sure I've left this site a few times but really it was just stuff that wasn't going my way. She'll be back to take offence another day.
He's pretty much come in to Dada's house and he didn't take his fucking shoes off. Take a poo son.
I like how I've been made out to be a woman hater when my signature was a parody made for her amusement too. Get me up on that cross.
cool parody bro
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man, that fucking nigger getting all upset that I called him a nigger. I'm just callin' a spade a spade. I told him I didn't really mean it!!! fucking pc bullshit
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I can't believe you just used the n-word...
Also (for sheer horror value) this actually exists: http://isitnormal.com/story/let-my-dog-lick-me-8375/
63% Normal!
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Haha you guys need to shut up now let's move on
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I agree with Afura and Farren, just drop it. It unfortunately seems to be going nowhere.
On the topic of autism, all I have is that fact that I have some people who seem to think I'm autistic. But I've never been diagnosed. Also, I can't remember who (it might have been Velfire, actually, but I'm not sure) immediately told me after mentioning this before that I wasn't autistic. *shrugs* I guess I need to get a doctor's opinion but there is no money for that.
From what my parents tell me:
-as a very young kid (toddler) I would go to the kitchen and stack and organize cans, this later lead to me organizing my hotwheels/matchbox cars by color and type.
-As a kid I was very picky and foods (I know every kid is picky) but my issues were a bit more noticeable, I also SPECIFICALLY had issues with the textures of foods.
-I've always been kind of clueless in social situations (but I've learned, and at this point I think that's not a noticeable aspect)
-I currently DESPERATELY want to 'complete' my various backlogs. (games, books, movies, tv)
-I've moved 9 times in my life, each time felt progressively worse. (difficulty with change)
I also took this test: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html)
And got a '30' which is 2 points below what 80% of all people DIAGNOSED with autism got or more. So I'm like semi-autistic. Or may I'm just a nerd IDK.
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Haha you guys need to shut up now let's move on
I'm gonna, don't worry. I'm just sorry that you guys are in the 37% that just don't understand normality.
On the subject of Autism, my parents had me tested when I was a child because I knew the name and model of every car on the road at the time. Maybe all nerds are slightly this way.
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edit: fyi ed I don't think what you said is alright at all, tho I don't kno why you'd care
see, it's this sort of thing. "are you sure you're ready to be an admin?" "is this how you handle power?" you sound like a US presidential campaign ad. you don't care one bit about this whole situation or about the fact vellfire left, it's all about how YOU'VE been wronged and how I'm being mean to you.
christ.
I've been putzing around trying to find the words to respond, but I can't. the thing is, you're totally convinced. you'll never doubt yourself about this at all, because that's how you are. this isn't a game, we're all real people. congrats. I don't want to stop coming here, but I'm going to be on my toes for a while. I just, fuck it, I'm gone. at least for a while. I can't stand this.
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autism post removed
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i was in atlantic city over the weekend for a friend's bachelor party. as a place, it is a bold refutation of the concept of human dignity.
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I've been putzing around trying to find the words to respond, but I can't. the thing is, you're totally convinced. you'll never doubt yourself about this at all, because that's how you are. this isn't a game, we're all real people.
says the guy who hasn't yet come to terms with the fact that he contributed to the environment that caused vellfire to decide to leave. that's a real action by a real person who was really hurt by your actions.
you don't have to tell me that this isn't a game. I'm not doing the debate olympics here. all of this effort is 100% towards the defense of a human being who got wronged. yeah, we're all real people? how about vellfire? how about considering her as a person? how about not giving a medal to the guy harassing her?
and for the record, as I explained to you before, I didn't say you were the sole reason. you inferred that, but it's not true.
now, we've been going on about this for a while and we don't seem to be getting anywhere. but I don't want you to think I'm just arguing here for the sake of arguing. so let me just explain that if you want to help and actually do something constructive about this, and I don't think you can because you don't think that you're wrong, but you should acknowledge that you've said and defended some pretty awful things that genuinely bothered someone, and helped bring about her decision to leave this place because she literally couldn't stand it anymore. and then make a genuine apology to her for doing so with the knowledge that you were wrong. that would be a good first step. and you're not the only one I'd direct this advice to, you're not the only one responsible for this set of circumstances. but you have to realize that what we're talking about here with regard to your feelings on the matter is insignificant compared to the feelings of the person who was targeted to begin with.
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*Wasn't aware of all that stuff going on* l for one am hoping that Vell eventually comes back.There are a lot of people who love her here, which I hope in the end outshines anything else.
UPDATE: I dropped her a line and she responded; it sound like she's leaving for a time, but not necessarily forever, which is good.
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you're so dense dada. I've acknowledged it before, and I'll do it again: I defended a guy who thinks some pretty bad things and said some awful things to vel, and I do apologize for any understandable stress this caused her or anyone. I don't defend or support any of the things he said. no, I'm not wrong about mince, but maybe I was wrong to stick my nose in. I should have just let it go.
and you're right, I'm not the only one responsible: YOU have played a much larger role than I. have you apologized to her? you are the one who let this go on for so long, you're the one who didn't do something about this sooner, you're the one who let it get to this stage and decided "welp let's just permaban him" instead of a smarter solution, like giving a temp ban as soon as he made an inflammatory post and removing offensive content. you're the one who argued with me about it, and now you sit here and patronize me after all the awful shit you said about me? and you think you have any room to comment about ed or mince? you're awful, man. you've never even considered the idea that you should apologize to me, have you? please temp ban me, a week or more - if that's something you even know how to do.
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Earl, while you may be trying to help things you may just end up fanning the flames. Everybody just CHILL YOUR HEAD as the thread says, sit on this and come back and try to discuss things a little more calmly. FYI, from what Vell said to me (She's leaving "for a while") she's taking a break, not leaving forever, so that's a relief. *Blizzajas thread in annoyance*
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From what my parents tell me:
-as a very young kid (toddler) I would go to the kitchen and stack and organize cans, this later lead to me organizing my hotwheels/matchbox cars by color and type.
-As a kid I was very picky and foods (I know every kid is picky) but my issues were a bit more noticeable, I also SPECIFICALLY had issues with the textures of foods.
-I've always been kind of clueless in social situations (but I've learned, and at this point I think that's not a noticeable aspect)
-I currently DESPERATELY want to 'complete' my various backlogs. (games, books, movies, tv)
-I've moved 9 times in my life, each time felt progressively worse. (difficulty with change)
lol those are just the trials of life dude. I'm pretty sure I hit every single one of those myself at some point and I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic.
When I was in elementary school we lived right next door to the school and my moms used to make us catch the bus anyways because there were woodlands inbetween my house and the school. The only bus that would stop at my house was the short bus with the handicapped kids so I ended up riding that one.
Well, I'd leave everyday a little early cus that bus would leave early and one day in the second grade my buddy asked the teacher why I had to leave everyday and as I was walking out the classroom she was actually explaining to the class some shit about special kids.
It wasn't until a little later when I was asking my mom about the bus that I put two and two together (the teacher assumed that I was also handicapped and was pretty much telling the other kids I was "special"). It didn't really bother me though because A) I was like seven and didn't realize it for awhile afterwards and B) that teacher was really hot.
My mom also put me in a speech impediment class because I picked up a lisp from my cousin (from hearing him speak). The lady teaching the class was tryin to teach me how to sound my "S"'s through my teeth.
IE: "thtay over here!"
The other kids made fun of me and were saying I sounded gay (I don't think I even knew what that was yet) so I told my mom I didn't want to go. She said I needed to learn how to speak correctly so I listened to how other people spoke and taught myself.
For awhile after the class and the bus thing I went through a phase where I wondered if I could have possibly had something or maybe they thought I did when I was real little cus I hardly ever talked at all and was incredibly anti-social with kids I didn't know. But I really don't think so. I think shit like that happens to alot of kids when they're real little (or maybe back in the day) where adults think they're slower or challenged when they really aren't, just different.
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Thank you Farren. Just to be clear, I'm not slighing either earlchip or Dada; All I'm asking is that you perhaps discuss this via PMs rather than having a very disruptive public fight in the middle of the forum for all to see.
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no it's important that other people see this
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There's a time and a place And' I'm just concerned that this may be generating more heat than light. I'm all for airing out of issues I'm just not sure that public castigation is the way to go in this case. I do feel that things should be discussed and blame heaped in the right areas if necessary; I'm just concerned this may overheat and infect other areas of the forums. I'm also annoyed that they had to have the discussion in THIS thread, instead of, say, giving it a thread of its own, thus giving me the opportunity to avoid the discussion if I so chose. Farren, however, pointed out that it's possible to avoid being drawn into the fight even if one's posting in this thread, so I'll do my best to follow his example.
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you're so dense dada. I've acknowledged it before, and I'll do it again: I defended a guy who thinks some pretty bad things and said some awful things to vel, and I do apologize for any understandable stress this caused her or anyone. I don't defend or support any of the things he said. no, I'm not wrong about mince, but maybe I was wrong to stick my nose in. I should have just let it go.
I'm not going to pretend to speak for vellfire here but just try giving her that apology and see if she accepts it. or I can save you the effort: she won't, because by that account, you're perfectly fine with what you did in principle.
and you're right, I'm not the only one responsible: YOU have played a much larger role than I. have you apologized to her? you are the one who let this go on for so long, you're the one who didn't do something about this sooner, you're the one who let it get to this stage and decided "welp let's just permaban him" instead of a smarter solution, like giving a temp ban as soon as he made an inflammatory post and removing offensive content.
I actually did apologize to her for not being able to prevent things from getting so bad that she had to leave. and I told her it's an understandable reaction. we've actually been in close contact from the moment this whole thing started, before she even decided to leave.
and yeah, you're right: I should have banned inri much sooner. in fact, I would have, had I known he had two accounts at the time I banned his first over your vocal objections.
if there was a smarter way to deal with this then I'm sorry I didn't take it, but as far as I can tell I did what was best: defend the person who was wronged and object to what I thought was a very unfair situation, and not back down and let that situation go unanswered.
you're awful, man. you've never even considered the idea that you should apologize to me, have you?
I do apologize for any understandable stress this caused you or anyone, but I stick by everything I said in principle anyway.
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I'm also annoyed that they had to have the discussion in THIS thread, instead of, say, giving it a thread of its own, thus giving me the opportunity to avoid the discussion if I so chose.
yeah, you're right, I'm sorry. but I think we're done now anyway. feel free to ignore this whole situation and talk about what you were talking about.
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yyyyyeahhhh. we'll talk this through again when everybody's anger has run it's course. it's just best for everyone to stop blaming each other blindly and just reflect on things for now. read back the topic if wilts etc.
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I swear to god if I open up facebook and see one more butchered "inspirational" corny ass lifetime network quote my balls are going to shrivel up and die.
bleh BLEHHHHHHHHH
Fucking oprah winfrey generation
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I swear to god if I open up facebook and see one more butchered "inspirational" corny ass lifetime network quote my balls are going to shrivel up and die.
bleh BLEHHHHHHHHH
Fucking oprah winfrey generation
lol make better friends dude
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CHILL YOUR HEAD.
Nah, not happening.
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So this place is still hopping along huh? Crazy, I've spent a good majority of my teenage years here. Good memories, GW probably crafted a lot of who I am today. I'm glad its still around. :)
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On the topic of autism again (is anybody paying attention??):
I've been thinking about stuff like this lately, especially with regards to autism and sexuality (those things are not related at all). See like, some people hear about someones "autistic tendencies" (or a list of things that got them diagnosed "autistic") and they either think "wow that's so weird, autism must be a strange thing to have" or they think "yeah man that's pretty normal I think everyone does that to some degree". It's pretty interesting because most people think of autism like any other disease, like this binary "you have it or you don't" (even with the various gradations of "you have autism really bad" or "you have autism just a little bit (asperger's)"), but I think Autism (or autistic tendencies) exist in every person, but it's always along a scale. Some people have little if any autistic behavioral tendencies but I think the scale exists regardless.
Same thing with sexuality. This is not a groundbreaking discovery but I think especially over the last 10-15 years everyone has become more comfortable (at least everyone who is say under 35-ish years of age) with the idea that sexuality is not some nice clean-cut "you are this or that" kind of thing, instead it's a sliding scale that just determines how many of your sex-neurons are turned on by this person or that person, how excited you get from this person's pheromones versus that person's.
Even something as complex and scary as cancer, cancerous cells are being created all the time in your body; it's only when your body fails to recognize these cells and exterminate them does it progress into "you have cancer". I just think it's interesting to look at things as this collection of sliding scales, every time we discover a new way to classify some portion of ourselves we aren't discovering a new box that you are in or not, instead it's just a new scale that you have some percentage of activated. Obviously not everything fits this paradigm but a lot of things do, especially things that tend to divide people.
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True.
*Steps away from his imaginary cafe table to rejoin the crowd* Levels of respect may be the same. To return to the former topic for a moment, Vell may have well experienced more pressure from actions or words that barely scratched us. People have different tolerances; it would be a good idea to keep that in mind. (FYI if you pay attention she still lurks, but that may or may not be significant.) *retreats a bit, sips tea*
I just brought in some flowers as its supposed to be freezing tonight. They look lovely together in the vase but I may split them up as I think the Japonica's smell may drown out that of the other flowers. Nah, they're fine.
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On the topic of autism again (is anybody paying attention??):
Someone created a poll a while back here that quantized one's sexuality on a certain scale and it was created by this guy who had the same feelings on the matter; I think this was it, at least: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale
Interesting stuff.
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Oh yeah, the good old Kinsey scale. Yeah. I think I'm a five or something.
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GR that is an awesome way of thinking and post. I pondered stuff like that myself to some extent but you really shed some light on it for me.
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*In a very bad mood for some reason; working on getting rid of it*
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I think it would be cool if they taught kids in school to be more grey and less black and white about things. It took me a very long time for the penny to drop and to start looking at things that way.
I'm fiddling with Arduinos almost all day and all night at the moment. I have a few projects on the go, one is to make a laser that fires but only when it's in the right place (this is to negate the effects of nearby periodic vibrations). Another is the flight computer for a weather balloon with outboard fans. Because the UK is a smaller place than say, the USA, we have to look for a way to control the ascent and descent of our balloon in order to take near-outer-atmosphere imagery.
At the moment we're worried we'll take out a plane or something so we're doing a lot of research into that. Apparently weather balloons have right of way and are easily detectable on radar.
A third project I'm working on is a motor controller with an ultrasonic rangefinder. It could have... interesting... uses.
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I think it would be cool if they taught kids in school to be more grey and less black and white about things. It took me a very long time for the penny to drop and to start looking at things that way.
I'm fiddling with Arduinos almost all day and all night at the moment. I have a few projects on the go, one is to make a laser that fires but only when it's in the right place (this is to negate the effects of nearby periodic vibrations). Another is the flight computer for a weather balloon with outboard fans. Because the UK is a smaller place than say, the USA, we have to look for a way to control the ascent and descent of our balloon in order to take near-outer-atmosphere imagery.
At the moment we're worried we'll take out a plane or something so we're doing a lot of research into that. Apparently weather balloons have right of way and are easily detectable on radar.
A third project I'm working on is a motor controller with an ultrasonic rangefinder. It could have... interesting... uses.
that sounds like funstuff. all I've really done with the arduino is make funny patterns/marquee with LED arrays. I don't really have time for all my hobbies/activities cuz of school and arduino has sorta been put on the backburner for a while. by the time i get back into it there will be another cooler little microcontroller for hobbyists to fuck with.
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of course the first thing i programmed it to do was make a dong on the leds
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just try giving her that apology and see if she accepts it.
do you really not have a clue, or has this all been an act? if I'm going to give an apology, I'm not going to do it on dada's terms. you're not vel, you're entirely peripheral to this situation - yet here you are, continuing to insult me from your totally artificial moral high ground. I won't play into your hand like that again. you were pretty successful at mixing up my emotions about mince and vel with your constant, obvious attacks on my character, continuously goading me into responding by purposefully misinterpreting my posts and making it sound like I was saying things that I could not possibly let go. you're done pretending to be a mediator, and I won't talk to you about this issue again.
you're not an imbecile, you can figure out how to construct an argument without throwing in every possible degradation you think of. by whatever excuse you have, that's not what you chose to do. but what's really astonishing is that you, by all appearances, feel absolutely no guilt about this at all. you staunchly refuse to give anything even resembling an apology, choosing to further mock me instead. you have absolutely no business doing so. mince is a guy with what I think we can correctly call issues, and even he realized he was offending an actual person in ways he didn't intend*. this is not so with dada. as far as I can tell, you really don't give a shit. I'm sensitive towards these issues. empathy for fellow human beings was, in fact, a major reason why I even choose to defend mince, and it is on these issues that you made sure to attack me. but I'm dropping the subject because I don't want something like this to erupt again. you're too good at the political game you apparently interpret this situation as
*he didn't apologize afaik, but I don't think we expected him to
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BTW MINCE
if you're reading this I need to talk to you about A levels. my email is [email protected] yes that's my real email
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BTW you had a SECOND CHANCE to edit mince's posts and fuck with him making him look dumb and funny but you didn't do it.
I want to be a mod so I can delete all your posts and turn mince into Susan B. Anthony
Ed are you an engineer? Or are you working with some sort of engineering department on the coding and programming side?
Also I got some girl interested in me on facebook I went to school with. She's cool but she's not really my type and she's got my same name.
man that shit would be wierd as fuck... Only reason I'm mentioning it is because of the name thing, that would be all kinds of wierd.
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first or last?
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Why don't we change our name back to Gamingw? Maybe it doesn't fully represent the forum but it will get you a lot more members/interest from old members than "saltw"....
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fuck that who wants to be part of gaming world forums
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me. i love games and i'm gauche as fuck. what do you have to say about it? :]
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I never liked gaming w. we're the gaming double-u. saltw is ok, like all the other ok names we came up with
gamingw.net does redirect here again btw, so old members can find this place now. for a while it was just a white page with some bold red swedish text
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Yeah, but how long will that last?
first or last?
I'd say it'd be weird in either case. But yeah, one would definitely be a bit more worry-some.
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Class list for fall semester...super excited!
Primatology
Chinese Archaeology
History of China from T'ang Dynasty
Mandarin Chinese III
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I wish I could take in-depth history courses like that. our library doesn't even have any exhaustive history books on anything besides egypt, greece and rome. topic proposal: preindustrial khmer history!! sources: encyclopedia brittanica, world atlas, national geographic
if you know of any good khmer books btw hook me up. but I know you're a china guy ya jurchen
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earlchip i just saw the video in your signature and completely lost it.
fucking sweet though my eyes are still bugging out a little
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whoa thanks! I'm not completely happy with it but I like the friendly skeleton too much
edit didn't even realize rallizes is in Space Funeral the actual game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch-TDGW-zXs&feature=related
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first or last?
First, Farren. Hers is spelled Farin though. I mean if she was my type and worth it I'd prolly do it anyways but it would def be wierd.
That sounds like I'm being a pretentious dick but I'm not really attracted in the first place, girls a lil dense and thought for awhile that grooming dogs at petco was her lifes calling until she got fired. Not really my cup o' tea.
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do you really not have a clue, or has this all been an act? if I'm going to give an apology, I'm not going to do it on dada's terms. you're not vel, you're entirely peripheral to this situation - yet here you are, continuing to insult me from your totally artificial moral high ground.
Actually the only thing I was doing by saying that was save you some time, because that's not a real apology and I very strongly doubt she would accept it as such. I'm not the one being apologized to, so what I think doesn't matter, but if you're really so confident in the power of "sorry for any stress this might have caused" then yeah go right ahead and use that and then come back here and tell me that I'm wrong. Not before.
So did you try? I doubt you did. Did she accept this apology? Doubt that even more.
If you want to criticize me for being on a fake moral high ground, do it after you've sent your fabulous apology.
as far as I can tell, you really don't give a shit. I'm sensitive towards these issues. empathy for fellow human beings was, in fact, a major reason why I even choose to defend mince, and it is on these issues that you made sure to attack me.
Yeah your empathy for fellow human beings has been so exemplary in this case that inri's posts "don't bother you on any level" (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83228.msg1625546#msg1625546).
How about showing some of that empathy for Vellfire, earlchip. And not just for the guy that made her feel like shit.
I mean yeah, I'm really glad you think there's something wrong with inri that you want fixed. I hope you succeed. The issue has always been that I'm not going to let this situation continue while you stand on the sidelines and do your wonderful liberal job of fixing inri cheetos while he's out causing this sort of thing. You've been arguing from the start that all of this is OK because CMON GUYS HES INRI and Vellfire is a hypocrite anyway for liking a song. Between that and the fact that most of your arguments were demonstrably bullshit (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83228.msg1625571#msg1625571), I've actually been pretty mild with you. I'm not targeting you because I've got something against you but because you're espousing genuinely putrid viewpoints and frankly I'm more than a little disappointed I've been virtually alone on this.
you're not an imbecile, you can figure out how to construct an argument without throwing in every possible degradation you think of. by whatever excuse you have, that's not what you chose to do. but what's really astonishing is that you, by all appearances, feel absolutely no guilt about this at all. you staunchly refuse to give anything even resembling an apology, choosing to further mock me instead.
Why do you deserve an apology??? Did anything happen to you? Did you get targeted by the patriarchy, too?
Besides that, the way I see it, I already gave you an apology (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83147.msg1625665#msg1625665): "I do apologize for any understandable stress this caused you or anyone".
Hey you know whose apology that looks like.
It looks like your apology to Vellfire. Word for word.
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BTW MINCE
if you're reading this I need to talk to you about A levels. my email is [email protected] yes that's my real email
lol do u give that out to people irl?
and how can i get one?
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also dada, you're kinda coming on way too strong with this apology thing... if he's sorry he'll apologize to her, idk if it helps when you put her feelings on blast on here. i think u guys should just settle this over PM or an instant messenger application so you can talk in realtime to come to an understanding and be bros/sis' once again
not that i wanna take sides on any of this, i didn't even read most of the posts in question except for the ones where inri was clearly personally harassing her, but w/e i'm not really the best person to judge anyone and shouldn't even be saying anything nvm
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also dada, you're kinda coming on way too strong with this apology thing... if he's sorry he'll apologize to her, idk if it helps when you put her feelings on blast on here. i think u guys should just settle this over PM or an instant messenger application so you can talk in realtime to come to an understanding and be bros/sis' once again
I really strongly doubt vell and earl will be bro/sis again anytime soon because there's a pretty big/insurmountable difference in opinion here. but it should be noted I'm not demanding an apology from him because that's not my place. it's an imperative if he wants to even try and patch things up somehow, but like I said I doubt it'll even matter.
I'm okay with going to PM entirely but I'm not about to leave important things posted in public left unanswered.
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you keep acting like he slighted her on purpose or something, its a difference in opinion if you can't accept it, let the shit go. Its so annoying having to look at that jumble of self-rightous bullshit over and over again from any side. Especially in a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
In the first topic some of the stuff was actually entertaining and engaging this is just you and earl going back and forth.
I was reading about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perce_Blackborow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perce_Blackborow)
While looking around at notable deckhands throughout history. He was part of an expedition to the antarctic. At the age of 18 dude tried to get a job going on the expedition but was turned down because of youth and inexperience. Being a precouscious youth who wouldn't take "no" for an answer old dude was snuck aboard by his two friends as a stowaway and got caught on the third day:
Apparently in a fit of genuine rage, Shackleton (the ship's captain) subjected the stowaway to a most severe and terrifying tirade in front of the entire crew. This had the desired effect and the reactions of the two accomplices were enough to unmask them.
Shackleton fin...ished his performance by saying to Blackbarrow, “Do you know that on these expeditions we often get very hungry, and if there is a stowaway available he is the first to be eaten?” To which Blackborow replied, “They’d get a lot more meat off you, sir.”
Following Endurance’s entrapment and crushing, the crew relocated to Elephant Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Island). On arrival, Shackleton thought to give Blackborow, the youngest of the crew, the honor of being the first to step on the island, forgetting that his feet had been frostbitten. Helped over the gunwale, he fell in the shallows and was quickly carried ashore.
On April 14 the rescue party set sail in the James Caird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Caird_(boat)) for South Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Georgia), hoping to return in weeks. The rest of the crew resigned themselves to waiting. Almost to a man they were in poor health and spirits. Blackborow had contracted gangrene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangrene) and was Macklin’s greatest medical concern.
On June 15 with Shackleton and the James Caird crew now away for a month, Macklin, assisted by McIlroy, carried out the necessary amputations. Greenstreet described the operation. “Blackborow had … all the toes of his left foot taken off ¼ inch stumps being left … The poor beggar behaved splendidly and it went without a hitch … Time from start to finish 55 minutes. When Blackborow came to he was cheerful as anything and started joking directly.”
That is one hell of a sailor right there. Also the captain, Shackleton is pretty awesome too. Knighted and known as a hero for keeping all of his crew alive despite a failed expedition but his is pretty lengthy and I haven't read it all yet.
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its a difference in opinion if you can't accept it, let the shit go.
When I used the word "opinion" I wasn't exactly referring to an opinion like WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE COLOR. this isn't an unimportant issue. (besides, if you're uninterested in hearing about it, then why are you getting involved again.)
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farren, bonzi buddy has actually pointed out a few places where I was offensive to her in ways I didn't realize, and I intend to do something about that when I can find the words. no doubt the situation was really exacerbated and contorted by another party acting in their own interestthat was not an apology to her. is she here? are you her? I was explaining in which ways that I feel sorry, which have actually expanded after bonz made me realize some things. YOU certainly don't get it, since to you this is still some undefinable "principle" - apparently, you think you have to absolutely loathe every single fiber of mince's and ed's bodies in order to not be offensive to velfare in some way. so yeah, once again, butt out.
and you keep on trying to, but you really DON'T get to use my apology/lack of apology to velfare against me. what you've done to me is a separate matter, and has been entirely uncalled for. if you really don't feel bad at all, you really have no position trying to lecture anyone about empathy (something I already doubted given what you've said about mince and ed). as I pointed out, even mince feels bad. you are worse than mince. until this is seriously addressed, this my final reply to you at all.
clearly, your excuse isn't too much emotions getting in your way
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Because it keeps coming back like a bad case of herpes and my eyes sting like a motherfucker.
But you actually hit the nail on the head with that one. It is something relatively trite as WHATS YOUR FAVORITE COLOR because this is a place full of fairly intelligent, sensible people (even at the worst of us) and this is a banal ass argument in the first place. To me its splitting hairs.
One arguing about the very necessity of the existance of an idiot saying idiot shit in this place and the other arguing about the idiots right to say idiot shit. Who fucking cares? Its not like you're arguing against a group of supermysogonistic he-man womanhaters and the dumbass comments were already shot down.
If you look back a few years in this community to when one would use those convictions and form valid arguments it would actually be for a GOOD reason. IE: KK4. Who was an inexcusable, racist piece of shit that spread political ideologies that if not thought about or discussed further could have resulted in this being another platform full of repressed internet nerds propelling a ron paul campaign.
Its just a fucking dumb thing to argue about, its very arbitrary and insignificant. Back then that shit would not have been taken seriously at all and have snowballed into such an argument, cus we had better shit to do than sit here and dick measure.
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If you ever end up in the states though I def want you to call me because I'm going to take you and show you some of the most ignorant po-dunk motherfuckers on the face of the earth that will probably outright stupify you and hopefully make you redirect all of this "net justice" energy you seem to have lately.
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as I pointed out, even mince feels bad. you are worse than mince.
first of all yeah he feels bad for being banned. but not for anything he did because he happily reaffirmed all of it in his post (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83228.msg1625606#msg1625606).
and are you really telling me that I'm worse than a twice banned racist/misogynist who continually harassed one of our members until his account got banned, because I'm being rude to you?
yeah, I unequivocally admit that I'm being very rude to you here (that's the point), but if that's your biggest problem with this whole situation you have pretty messed up priorities.
no doubt the situation was really exacerbated and contorted by another party acting in their own interest
there's only one party whose interests I have defended here and that's the one person who isn't here to defend herself. like I said before, I'm not participating in the debate olympics here. this isn't an argument for the sake of arguing.
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fuck you two with getting the last words, don't keep this shit going on here. earl will talk to velfarre in person, either in irc or in a real topic, and i'm definitely not going to start defending her either way here unless she comes here as well, we all sit in the same table and talk it out. have a seperate topic for it. we'll not/avoid belittling her opinion in any way just in case it happens and try to see it from her angle as well.
she has good reasons to feel the way she does but i really had to talk to her in person and read post histories and that topic over and over again to get the full picture. it would/will be a good topic, not black or white at all.
we're all adults here who are relatively smart who CAN also admit mistakes. how long we've COEXISTED in this forum to know somewhat how others may or may not think? at least... we know each others routines and at worst not much else!! no-one of you fuckos know exactly what kind of person the other is in mind and in rl and nobody of you has any right declaring WHAT the other person is as an argument, that's no way to treat other human beings. the only way is reason and talk.
also *carefree/spontaneous armpit fart* imo saltw is okay or good. it works i can identify with it. i can be relatively interested in old games but i'd rather not marry myself to them for the next 10 years again. name dont make the man, man makes the name... 2;47 bonzi "ill fuck you up" buddy
but idk it's nice to see that dudes like Afura and Beasley still care a little of this place to suggest that or req a frontsite. dig +1
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fyi if you (reader) dismiss my post thinking i'm posting feeble/mild garbage or morally bankrupt, yeahhh i'll gladly punch your fucking nose in dear fucker. we'll have full arguments and points IF we fix this by making the topic. there's lot to talk anyways and it's definitely a waste seeing her go or you guys fighting so make ammends.
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Barack, I agree with you that when earl's ready to truly apologize, he will in his own time, and that there's no point in Dada and Earl turning their swords on one another. Bonzi, I agree that they should be able to patch things up in time once the three actually start talking , listening, understanding , and attempting to gain insight into the other and stop attempting to speak for each other. It'll take time but I think we all want them to patch it up.
I'd also like to point out that Vell has continued lurking around here and may be available to speak to.
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Bonzi, I agree that they should be able to patch things up in time once the three actually start talking , listening, understanding , and attempting to gain insight into the other and stop attempting to speak for each other.
okay time for some clarification.
first of all there's nothing to discuss with vellfire. mince got properly banned and earlchip contested the ban saying he's okay with him staying because he's not bothered by his constant harassment of vellfire or his misogyny or racism. if he wants to assume that line: fine, but I'm going to comment on it. that's how things work. now he's complaining I was too harsh on him and says I should apologize. that's where we are right now.
second of all vellfire is not coming back here for a while. she's personally asked me to speak on her behalf where needed, even though up until now everything I've said is from my own perspective and would have been the same even if vellfire had been around to defend herself. but let me speak for her just this once then: she doesn't want to partake in this debate, and if she did there would be nothing to say that I haven't already said.
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You're an admin ruining a whole different topic. Take it to PM. Even your members are requesting this.
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You're an admin ruining a whole different topic.
Yes, that's exclusively my fault and not earlchip's, or farren's, or bonzi_buddy's, or terrorantula's.
Like I said, I'm happy to take it to PM but if someone posts a public message that needs to be addressed, I'm going to respond to it. I'm not about to leave those messages unanswered so that other people can read them and get the wrong idea. And honestly I don't think there's anything left to debate. Earlchip wants an apology from me for being rude and he's not going to get it.
To everybody else: stop making speculative statements about this case. Let it rest.
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speculate on THIS *flips bird*
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fuck you two with getting the last words, don't keep this shit going on here. earl will talk to velfarre in person, either in irc or in a real topic, and i'm definitely not going to start defending her either way here unless she comes here as well, we all sit in the same table and talk it out. have a seperate topic for it. we'll not/avoid belittling her opinion in any way just in case it happens and try to see it from her angle as well.
she has good reasons to feel the way she does but i really had to talk to her in person and read post histories and that topic over and over again to get the full picture. it would/will be a good topic, not black or white at all.
there won't be a fucking topic. I'm going to PM vel and hopefully she gets notified about it. if v's reading this, or you have contact with her, feel free to tell her she has nothing to worry about. I'm sending a massive apology as you read edit: it was never about her, it was about me being offensive in the process of trying to support mince, and then later it was about dada being a massive dick.
btw if you're going to be stern but understanding in PM and then act like a mediator in public I really don't think you should bother. I've been offended over and over again by dada, and it really annoys me to see you go out of your way to be totally impartial here. thanks for the info and all.
EDIT - sorry bonzi, as I said in PM, I just really don't want to see anyone acting impartial towards dada. I know you've been the one to actually tell me where I was wrong, and I didn't mean to imply that you're like in any agreement with me. anyway, I don't want a mediator because I'm not talking to dada again until this has blown over. he's only helped escalate the situation, whatever his intentions supposedly are.
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new single coming soon as soon as I upload it
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I can sympathize with Dada on not wanting to let a publicly posted question left publicly unanswered, but I'd assume Earlchip is feeling the same way about it. It's annoying, one of you should just suck it up and not get the last response on the topic.
Also, both of you are pissy about us not taking sides in your argument which is stunningly irresponsible. I'm not sure, some people might pick sides silently, but they maybe don't want to post which side they are on since that's just risking creating a rift which is obviously not something anyone wants.
Just either let it go or immediately take this discussion up on PM. Ripping your self away from the other's biting response, WITHOUT RESPONDING, is exactly what would have garnered respect. (at least in my case) If there are some that are honestly curious about it, they can PM either of you with their own questions.
On topic: Where did this deckhands thing come from? or was that just spontaneous?
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http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83234.0
here it is
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Also, both of you are pissy about us not taking sides in your argument which is stunningly irresponsible. I'm not sure, some people might pick sides silently, but they maybe don't want to post which side they are on since that's just risking creating a rift which is obviously not something anyone wants.
I've already said I'm not responding to him anymore, warp. and it's not that I want people to pick sides, I just don't want anyone trying to mediate. because at this point it's entirely one-sided, and pretending to be impartial to that starts to legitimize his wrongdoing.
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Honestly both your reactions seem reasonable when you look at it from your individual perspectives.
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I'd make sure to stay out of this one, ter. I know you have the best intentions, thank you
btw I'll say this much publicly for anyone who cares (everyone is annoyed BUT) banning mince was the right thing to do. not on some principle of not letting people with issues in, but because what he was doing to vel had to be stopped, and banning really is the only way to make that happen. take my word for it if you don't believe me. this probably looks like an about face for me but I really don't care! everything's far from resolved but I thought I'd put that out there
u have my permission to discuss other things everyone. someone please talk about ragnar's single
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A new idea for the coming business year (and a treat for all you TV buffs out there!!!)
http://youtu.be/Zko9Im7Eg1A (http://youtu.be/Zko9Im7Eg1A)
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I wish I could take in-depth history courses like that. our library doesn't even have any exhaustive history books on anything besides egypt, greece and rome. topic proposal: preindustrial khmer history!! sources: encyclopedia brittanica, world atlas, national geographic
if you know of any good khmer books btw hook me up. but I know you're a china guy ya jurchen
I don't know anything about Khmer. A guy who lived in the town my community college was in invented this machine to detect land mines safely and he used it in Khmer to help the population there cuz there are a bunch of landmines in the ground...it's bad.
Also, my uni has the Center for Southeast Asian Studies and you can learn Khmer language (as well as Thai and Tagalog). Pretty sweet stuff.
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fyi if you (reader) dismiss my post thinking i'm posting feeble/mild garbage or morally bankrupt, yeahhh i'll gladly punch your fucking nose in dear fucker. we'll have full arguments and points IF we fix this by making the topic. there's lot to talk anyways and it's definitely a waste seeing her go or you guys fighting so make ammends.
*deer fucker
On topic: Where did this deckhands thing come from? or was that just spontaneous?
I am an Able Bodied Seaman by profession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_bodied_seaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_bodied_seaman)
Someone was asking me what my job title entailed and I posted them that link. I was reading about notable ABs in history and fiction though at the bottom of the page and I came across Perce Blackborow.
Edit: What? I'm done with that junk. I'm just tryin to help ol bonzi with his english.
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Farren please stop.
Also, Yay, I got my Schedule A letter! this should help with government jobs!
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I think dear fucker was correct. I like it more, anyway. It's warmer.
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ahahah yeah it is pretty backwards eloquent isn't it?
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did you get the cheese steaks esiann, how were they?
I don't know anything about Khmer. A guy who lived in the town my community college was in invented this machine to detect land mines safely and he used it in Khmer to help the population there cuz there are a bunch of landmines in the ground...it's bad.
Also, my uni has the Center for Southeast Asian Studies and you can learn Khmer language (as well as Thai and Tagalog). Pretty sweet stuff.
I would take a khmer language course in a second. if there was a pimsleurs khmer I would already own it
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I don't know anything about Khmer. A guy who lived in the town my community college was in invented this machine to detect land mines safely and he used it in Khmer to help the population there cuz there are a bunch of landmines in the ground...it's bad.
Also, my uni has the Center for Southeast Asian Studies and you can learn Khmer language (as well as Thai and Tagalog). Pretty sweet stuff.
Have you gotten into vietnamese? or are you going to? There are a group of like five or six first gen vietnamese/americans that work here and when they speak it, it sounds wierd. Kind of like a cat growl/meowing "UUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAA". Like they drag their vowels out or something? Shit freaked me out first time I heard it. I get mad respect points from em' because I got a t-shirt from when we went to Ho Chi Minh (they didn't go, laid off) and they poke me everytime I wear it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh_City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh_City)
It was cool because when I got back to the states my pop pop (grandfather) was asking me about it because he was in vietnamn. I told him about what I saw and how it looked around there and he seemed to reminisce fondly of it even though he was fighting a war there.
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Glad that gamingw.net finally redirects to Saltw. That was a long overdue improvement so good work to whoever sorted that. Now time for a website haha....
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It's sort of as if Murder, She Wrote were annoyed.
Oh I did! I liked whichever one we ended up at because they just have big buckets of pickled things, which I took all of. Otherwise it was really similar to the M&M, which isn't a bad thing. Slightly cheesier. Mixed sentiments from the others. I think it was Chubby's. The Reading Terminal Market was way better than expected (indoor fair concessions I guess?). There's a good Cajun place where I got some alligator gumbo/bean liquid. I wonder if reptiles count as fish, Catholic-wise. Also Philly in general is much nicer than expected, feels similar to Boston but more barren (on an inhospitable day). The statues are better.
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Glad that gamingw.net finally redirects to Saltw. That was a long overdue improvement so good work to whoever sorted that. Now time for a website haha....
To my knowledge this has been fixed for some time now. The domain was seized by the domain mafia but Drule managed to get it back from them somehow.
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Also, both of you are pissy about us not taking sides in your argument which is stunningly irresponsible. I'm not sure, some people might pick sides silently, but they maybe don't want to post which side they are on since that's just risking creating a rift which is obviously not something anyone wants.
Disregarding the issue between earlchip and myself, but with regard to the harassment of Vellfire (which is what I was referring to in my post) there's a beautiful quote by Desmond Tutu that applies. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/desmondtut106145.html
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It's sort of as if Murder, She Wrote were annoyed.
Oh I did! I liked whichever one we ended up at because they just have big buckets of pickled things, which I took all of. Otherwise it was really similar to the M&M, which isn't a bad thing. Slightly cheesier. Mixed sentiments from the others. I think it was Chubby's. The Reading Terminal Market was way better than expected (indoor fair concessions I guess?). There's a good Cajun place where I got some alligator gumbo/bean liquid. I wonder if reptiles count as fish, Catholic-wise. Also Philly in general is much nicer than expected, feels similar to Boston but more barren (on an inhospitable day). The statues are better.
good! I think they both have big buckets of pickles and peppers. the main difference between the two is that dalessandro's is tiny inside, and chubby's is larger w/ booths. the rtm is great too. that Corner of Louisiana place has the best cajun food I've had, really good po boys there. I should have recommended dinic's, but I didn't really know about it at the time. I think alligator counts as fish.
I'm probably going to be making a thread about the reading viaduct/old abandoned stuff in philly this weekend, you might be interested
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speaking of louisiana and louisiana cuisine, does anyone here watch swamp people? I love that show and a welder I work with sells crawfish he catches to troy and told me a cafe he frequents at where you can talk to him. I've really gotten into that whole workin' man reality tv trend that discovery has been doing with shows like; Deadliest Catch, Swamp People, Bearing Sea Gold etc.. Might make it a topic soon because the stuff is honestly really interesting and sheds light on a dying breed of the entrepreneur/pioneer/self-sufficient laborer in a vein of true realism you don't usually see in the horrible genre that is reality TV.
I rode on a hoverboat through some gator farms a couple times. Its pretty incredible. The guy doing the tour had palsy or something like that and couldn't walk which made it that much more awesome.
I think alligator counts as fish
Been a long time since I ate it but if I remember correctly because of texture and preparation I'd say its closer to a chicken or beef. Fish are too tender I think and you can't make jerky out of them.
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did you get the cheese steaks esiann, how were they?
I would take a khmer language course in a second. if there was a pimsleurs khmer I would already own it
http://www.livemocha.com/ (http://www.livemocha.com/) has Khmer on it. It's a free language learning website kinda like Rosetta Stone but no 500 dollars. I don't really know how they compare.
Also Farren, no Vietnamese. I like the food though. I might take People and Cultures from Southeast Asia class sometime but right now I don't need it for my degree and cultural anthro isn't my focus.
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Vietnamese Kho = :D​!!!!
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of course the first thing i programmed it to do was make a dong on the leds
I think I may have to put in an order to do this. It hasn't been christened correctly otherwise.
Ed are you an engineer? Or are you working with some sort of engineering department on the coding and programming side?
I've got a masters in EEE. Currently doing a PhD in space imagers.
If I could do my undergraduate again I'd like to do something more towards interfacing computers with real world processes. All the current interfaces are kinda obvious. I'm still amazed that we don't have appliance standards for home automation yet. I don't want to die before feeling like George Jetson.
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If y'all like interfaith dialogue and discussion, please join my fb group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212783462146850/
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I'll cosider it.
*Twitch8 Having trouble with internal saves in Fusion when playing Game gear stuff. I exited the perogram but whe i went bakc there as no continue
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If y'all like interfaith dialogue and discussion, please join my fb group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212783462146850/
I like this idea but it would really help if people wouldn't create topics by literally only saying "Homosexuality and religious traditions. Discuss."
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you can make fish jerky
http://www.dehydratorbook.com/fish-jerky.html
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I am ostracized enough already, I'll prolly check it out though.
It's sort of as if Murder, She Wrote were annoyed.
This is really good btw, it took a minute to register.
Dok, I couldn't imagine eating that shit. Fish meat just does not seem like the kind of meat you'd wanna use for a jerky to me.
Also I think this is a better description as far as tendencies of the meat and taste: it has a fairly firm texture and (like chicken) pretty much absorbs the flavor of whatever it is cooked in.
It doesn't specifically taste like chicken but thats the closest I think you could get to it. I also read calamari/chicken and that seems kind of accurate too.
They cook cajun on here ALL THE TIME when we're closer to stateside. Froglegs, gumbo every third day, rabbit etc.. They don't cook gator on here but when "Mister T" comes back I might ask him about it (he's the steward onboard a big old creole guy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Creole_people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Creole_people)
The term creole being used in this instance is a black person with a lighter skin tone being the product of the reoccurance of french blood in genetic disposition. Not the same as a "mixed" person they look a little different. Think how an albino black person would look except like a cream color. I've never even seen/heard of that till I got out here, its pretty interesting.
I worked with him in the galley for awhile last august and we were working in the freezer he kept mumbling about boudin over and over again like every other day (the guys really old and kind of talks to himself sometimes) which is another cajun food: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudin). It sounds really funny to hear someone say it because it sounds like "BOH-DAN".
I think he was complaining because he wanted to cook it one day but he didn't have enough. I don't think I'd like it though because its parts of the pig I don't really wanna eat.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ad6zEMLd1qf5hozo1_500.jpeg)
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(http://files.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_449/4491755/file/pato-purific-toilet-cleaning-product-duck-small-43825.jpg)
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/chuck-cheese-family-feuds-birthday-parties-turn-violent/story?id=15803726#.T3Wa7r-okoH
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That's fucked up.
Just, WTF:
"All I remember was hitting the floor and being kicked again and again in the head," she told "Nightline." "I think her husband jumped in and was kicking me too."
Disgusting.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGvowG9lIp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGvowG9lIp4)
Me and my fav. piano. I think I will soon buy a bunch of old toy instruments to mess around with and do some crazy music. I want to do circuit bending too eventually, but I am a electronics babby so I need to learn first. Youtube is full of this stuff, and it's awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNUMJq0oA5Q
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I wonder aboutr the fish jerky- I like dashi, and have tired ostrich jerky, so i tmight beintersting.
This actually looks like a fascinating game . . . (http://katawa-shoujo.com/about.php)
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i want to start writing faqs for irl things and putting them around campus.
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i want to start writing faqs for irl things and putting them around campus.
Things Women Want Men To Know About Their Bodies...! 10 Facts About Women. What Men Look In Women. She (a piccie of certain female teacher frozen in some strange, vaguely sexual face so it's a midshot during her lecture) Didn't Want You To See Her Fail. A Fail You Never Paid Attention. This Common Uber-Fail Women See Men Do All The Time. Things You Never Mention To Your Dates.
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Things Women Want Men To Know About Their Bodies...! 10 Things About Women. What Men Look In Women. She (a piccie of certain female teacher frozen in some strange, vaguely sexual face so it's a midshot during her lecture) Didn't Want You To See Her Fail. A Fail You Never Paid Attention. This Common Uber-Fail Women See Men Do All The Time. Things You Never Mention To Your Dates.
This Common Uber-Fail Women See Men Do All The Time.
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the "human nature" spin they put on the chuck e cheese thing is so gross
when I was a kid my best friend's mom went to war with my mom, and she didn't let her kid play with me anymore. we still saw each other in school and on the bus tho.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/WP_000349.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/WP_000350.jpg)
there were people walking alpacas around DC for some reason, but this dedicated blogger with smartphone gloves was too excited to tweet about it and got in the way
looks like the nearest alpaca only has 3 legs
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Those photographs look like something out of The Onion. "CNN Too Late As Dedicated Blogger Breaks News On Alpacas." He looks very pleased with himself.
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they're probably promoting a farm that raises them. My neighbor had llamas, miniature horses, and emus. I don't know if they're the same thing or if its a difference in size or something.
Miniuture horse faq: Yes they are generally smaller in proportion except one......which some males would consider the most important. And its pretty funny to watch a tiny ass horse draggin his shit all over the ground.
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haha yeah biggles. I thought he was probably tweeting while I was taking the pictures, but I didn't notice the details until I looked at them later
they're probably promoting a farm that raises them.
farms should actually do that more, but in this case it was an Occupy demonstration. it was about 50 people and they were blocking one side of the street. I'm not sure about the significance of the alpacas, but the lady in the lead (second pic, yellow bag) was dressed like maybe an ancient shepherd. I wonder if she drove the apalcas there in her car or if they're living in a tent with her or what.
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TRying to figutre out if I cna safely trust the cracked download of GamE cOPY Wizard or not- I'm attempting to burn some ISO. Sincei have an actual ps2 it mad elittle send to me to try emulation, thogh i suppose that's one way.
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wow that is so dumb ahahahaha
now I feel sorry for those things having to be apart of that bullshit.
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Like
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The April Fool's cat thing on Deviantart is very amusing- except for the rewriting of posts, which I resent.
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April 1st Is I Steal Your Money Day (http://istealyourmoney.com)
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Interesting site, but what is suggested to fix this issue? If there is something in there for that I didn't find it.
The only thing I can see that would liberate the idiots (and everyone else) from the dull and shitty jobs would be robots to do it for us. And even then you can't have robots doing everything.
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Vonnegut wrote a really good book about that actually
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the "human nature" spin they put on the chuck e cheese thing is so gross
when I was a kid my best friend's mom went to war with my mom, and she didn't let her kid play with me anymore. we still saw each other in school and on the bus tho.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/WP_000349.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/WP_000350.jpg)
there were people walking alpacas around DC for some reason, but this dedicated blogger with smartphone gloves was too excited to tweet about it and got in the way
looks like the nearest alpaca only has 3 legs
god, i fucking love these pictures. dude too busy to appreciate two alpaccas walking around DC on account of his smart phone.
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Vonnegut wrote a really good book about that actually
about robots doing everything for us? or a book on the general issue that Fuckcrypt's site brings up?
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Yeah, I didn't elaborate because I didn't know if you were interested and I couldn't remember the title.
Its called Player Piano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano
Its about a dystopia future where all of the menial jobs and manual laborers are replaced by machines leaving the only positions left open for humans to work in being engineers and managers. But the only people that are "allowed" to fill those positions are the upper class. So you've got this schism between the upper and lower class. The poorer and uneducated being forced into either military service or a civil service not unlike what you see alot of prisoners doing nowadays (street sweepers, road construction, etc...)
One guy who is a manager starts to see how fucked up everything is through an eccentric friend and by talking to the poorer class and finding out that they aren't as unskilled and worthless as society and culture percieves them to be.
Its pretty scary because nowadays you can almost see that shit actually happening in a devolved form what with the steady decline of the trade worker and more and more requirements for higher education and arbitrary degrees in positions that used to not need them. Which is half necessary because you don't want idiots running shit but half atrocious because it does cut out alot of poorer people that can't afford such an education.
Pretty much any vonnegut is that awesome if not more though. Steel got me into him and that dude has a certain cynical wit and imagination you don't see nowadays if ever really.
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April 1st Is I Steal Your Money Day (http://istealyourmoney.com)
where did it come from? did you make this? Do you feel disrespected, lost, unneeded, crushed? Does capitalism resemble the fist of a politician, or tycoon, mercilessly punching a human face forever? Whatever your problems are I can help you because the vastness of my mind is phenomenal. I simply need your money.
this is like hundleys targ meets dietcoke's politics warped into a dumb viewpoint. Its pretty funny but kind of rambles on a little bit and gets a lil repetitive. I like it though.
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IDK, If we got robots to do everything for use and resources weren't scarce, wouldn't that sort of put us in a position of a vaguely post scarcity in a sort of sense? Not where scarcity is literally gone, but that effort no longer needs to be put in to survive, all the bare essentials, water, food, shelter, healthcare (to a point) would be covered automatically. I mean if everyone was taken care of by the robots. But I'd almost say that could turn kind of distopia as well since only those fascinated by the fields will bother to go into the intellectual jobs because otherwise they don't need to. Might lead to sort of a idiocracy situation where instead of genes/evolution making us stupid, it'd be lack of an interest in education.
Maybe that's a stretch, its hard to see something like that happening since it'd have to be a not-for-profit organization/government that builds the infrastructure and I just don't see that happening. "Player Piano" does seem a lot more likely.
EDIT: NVM my "vaguely post scarcity in a sort of sense" what said was exactly what a post scarcity is defined as. Read on Wiki.
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Its pretty scary because nowadays you can almost see that shit actually happening in a devolved form what with the steady decline of the trade worker and more and more requirements for higher education and arbitrary degrees in positions that used to not need them. Which is half necessary because you don't want idiots running shit but half atrocious because it does cut out alot of poorer people that can't afford such an education.
it sounds like an interesting book, but I'm not sure it would ever actually happen. as bad as things always are within this subject, there are always people working to combat all the awful problems capitalism causes. probably one of the best programs I've heard of teaches prisoners about horticulture, and later about sustainable planting and maintenance, and I guess what you'd call permaculture. after they graduate from the program they're guaranteed a steady job as probably some of the most effective landscapers out there. there are so many ways this benefits everyone, but particularly the prisoners, who have never really felt self-worth before or ever known about their ability to improve the world. seeing plants and working with soil also have documented positive effects on the mind and body, particularly when it comes to stress-related mental disorders (all of them)
probably sounds like hippie stuff to some, but it really is an immensely effective program on all levels. interestingly, the only way the organizer of this program got the local government to buy into it was by talking about the idea singularly from an economic side. eg how much dinero it'd save the govt by not having to keep these prisoners and jail and pay for their upkeep. come to think of it, the guy actually introduced the idea to us by stating that slave labor still exists in america
and landscaping will never be a robot's job
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Eh, I kind of hate working outdoors personally, even if its good for me. I hate sweating/humidity/dirt. Oddly enough I don't mind the heat (lived in Arizona for 4 years) or pain of exercise itself.
And I don't know, I think a robot could plant things and move dirt around. (my ignorance of the details of landscaping are probably now evident) A person would be needed to oversee said robots of course and someone would have to 'design/plan' the landscape beforehand (both jobs could be the same person), maybe a mechanic for if the robots breakdown, but that would be all that I could think of as a necessary human element.
Any physical work, that can be measured or put into a pattern could be done by a robot. If we succeed in replacing all physical work with robots, would that really be a bad thing? I mean, one could argue that we'd become dependent/docile/fat but if we advanced to such a point, would we also possibly have a means developed to combat such problems? Maybe I'm being to pie in the sky optimist.
I suppose even then though, we would still have the problem of... well a LACK of problems to fix. A lack of problems to keep us occupied. Oh sure, there is always conquering death, exploring the world/ourselves, and some pointless if entertaining competitions (video games, sports, chess... oh wait chess has been beaten). but what after that?
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Any physical work, that can be measured or put into a pattern could be done by a robot. If we succeed in replacing all physical work with robots, would that really be a bad thing? I mean, one could argue that we'd become dependent/docile/fat but if we advanced to such a point, would we also possibly have a means developed to combat such problems? Maybe I'm being to pie in the sky optimist.
I suppose even then though, we would still have the problem of... well a LACK of problems to fix. A lack of problems to keep us occupied. Oh sure, there is always conquering death, exploring the world/ourselves, and some pointless if entertaining competitions (video games, sports, chess... oh wait chess has been beaten). but what after that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation
Marx's theory of alienation (Entfremdung in German, which literally means "estrangement"), as expressed in the writings of the young Karl Marx (in particular the Manuscripts of 1844), refers to the separation of things that naturally belong together, or to put antagonism between things that are properly in harmony. In the concept's most important use, it refers to the social alienation of people from aspects of their "human nature" (Gattungswesen, usually translated as 'species-essence' or 'species-being'). He believed that alienation is a systematic result of capitalism.
According to Marx, alienation is a systemic result of capitalism. Marx's theory of alienation is founded upon his observation that, within the capitalist mode of production, workers invariably lose determination of their lives and destinies by being deprived of the right to conceive of themselves as the director of their actions, to determine the character of their actions, to define their relationship to other actors, and to use or own the value of what is produced by their actions. Workers become autonomous, self-realized human beings, but are directed and diverted into goals and activities dictated by the bourgeoisie, who own the means of production in order to extract from workers the maximal amount of surplus value possible within the current state of competition between industrialists. By working, each contributes to the common wealth. Alienation in capitalist societies occurs because the worker can only express this fundamentally social aspect of individuality through a production system that is not collectively, but privately owned; a privatized asset for which each individual functions not as a social being, but as an instrument.
http://workingtropes.lcc.gatech.edu/wiki/index.php/The_Luddite_Movement
Machine Labor vs Human Labor
The Luddites were greatly opposed to the concept of Machine Labor in the textile industry for a couple of reasons: firstly, the looms were capable of producing textiles a lot quicker than they ever possibly could rendering their diligent craft making less efficient; secondly, the workers who would operate the looms and frames could do so without the advanced training and experience the artisans had for a much lower cost. Basically the speed of the machines and the cheapness of the workers would put the artisans out of their job. If human labor were still the only method of textile production, their expertise would equal both speed and quality and they would keep their jobs, but unfortunately for them, progress rendered them obsolete.
Proletariat vs Bourgeois
Like many great developments, the mechanization of the textile industry was a result of necessity. The Napoleonic Wars were raging during this time, and the upper class was spending large amounts of money supporting their nation. Resources were very high in demand, especially for the troops. [2] Cheap and efficient production was necessary and the new advent of mechanized looms and stocking frames made it possible. The workers required almost no artisan experience or training and therefore could be paid very small amounts of money. Even better for the upper class, they could easily be replaced by thousands of similar potential workers if they complained about the horrid conditions at their factories. [5] If they decided to ban together and revolt, the army was sent to put them down. It was a classic case of the upper class exploiting the working class.
"The Machine Stops" by E.M. Forster portrays the worst case scenario from a Luddite perspective. Having machines fully take over all physical labor and enslave humans to total dependence on it would have been disastrous in their eyes. They would want full control over their jobs and their lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL9BjKH5MSY
http://www.filestube.com/search.html?q=all+watched+over+by+machines+of+loving+grace
http://scrapetorrent.com/Search/index.php?search=all%20watched%20over%20by%20machines%20of%20loving%20grace
I am not the author of the steal your money site.
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http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html
"I have called you before, mother, but you were always busy or isolated. I have something particular to say."
"What is it, dearest boy? Be quick. Why could you not send it by pneumatic post?"
"Because I prefer saying such a thing. I want----"
"Well?"
"I want you to come and see me."
Vashti watched his face in the blue plate.
"But I can see you!" she exclaimed. "What more do you want?"
"I want to see you not through the Machine," said Kuno. "I want to speak to you not through the wearisome Machine."
"Oh, hush!" said his mother, vaguely shocked. "You mustn"t say anything against the Machine."
"Why not?"
"One mustn"t."
"You talk as if a god had made the Machine," cried the other.
"I believe that you pray to it when you are unhappy. Men made it, do not forget that. Great men, but men. The Machine is much, but it is not everything. I see something like you in this plate, but I do not see you. I hear something like you through this telephone, but I do not hear you. That is why I want you to come. Pay me a visit, so that we can meet face to face, and talk about the hopes that are in my mind."
--->>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7cMe73KAl0 <<<<---
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america has been shedding its manual labor for many generations, either to robotics or to wage slaves in distant countries, and at no point has that lead to some post-scarcity utopia. when people lose their jobs on factory lines they don't get absorbed in to some easy life of fulfillment and leisure, they become the service-industry cogs that are milked for as much debt as they can stand. after they finish their day working for minimum wage selling the plastic junk made by slaves, they get to go home and simulate pleasure through their televisions, or by paying zynga micro-transactions to pretend to do meaningful work on fake, cartoon farms. welcome to late capitalism.
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ok dude.
With further dependance on technology humanity sort of loses a semblance with nature and our old ways. The ways of making and doing things with our minds and hands alone. Not to say we aren't just as smart or as capable, but when we (as a whole) kind of forget that frontiersmen aspect of ourselves, we leave ourselves vulnerable.
Look at your cars. We went from carborated operated engines you could rebuild and work on almost anywhere to computer run engines that aren't repairable without certain technology. Even my own damn job, global navigation. We depend on GPS, radar, and all this other stuff. Which makes our jobs alot easier but the old way of navigating by the stars is kind of dying out. Yes you still have to know how to do some of that stuff but if you REALLY had to. Prolly wouldn't be good enough to be efficient enough imo.
This is something that is pretty much undeniable and as we progress, so does that gap. But yeah its a totally fictional story and no its not happening now in the most realistic sense. But we are infact hurting ourselves with a certain dependence on technology without thinking about the consequence if somehow we lost it.
Shit even people from before were generally more learned. Spoke more languages, spoke more articulately, studied independant sciences and global histories. Yes information is easier to get now but as technology grows we have less and less an inclination to give a shit.
But that book is mostly about classism, capitalist decay, and the growth of technology. You'd prolly have to read it to get it. Its not like soylent green style utopia just alot of manual labor like welding, automotive construction and repair. Shit that machines are actually doing now. The concept is that not only did those machines get built to do everything but pretty much maintain themselves too.
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It's not even technology tho, it's all capital. Tech. isn't a material thing, it's an abstract idea that conveniently mashes together information and capital. People don't use stuff like GPS in their businesses just because the information is out there, they invest in capital (GPS equipment and training) in order to stay in the game or get ahead of the game; ie in order secure more capital. that's what the system necessitates. the old way is a less efficient means of gettin capital, so it's obsolete. if robots take over it won't be because the info exists (it already does, or if it doesn't, y know what's holding it back) it'll be bc it becomes the most efficient way of obtaining dinero. I doubt it ever will be, human slave labor from resource-ravaged post-colonial countries is pretty hard to beat
it is a neat subject to think about
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america has been shedding its manual labor for many generations, either to robotics or to wage slaves in distant countries, and at no point has that lead to some post-scarcity utopia. when people lose their jobs on factory lines they don't get absorbed in to some easy life of fulfillment and leisure, they become the service-industry cogs that are milked for as much debt as they can stand.
if robots take over it won't be because the info exists (it already does, or if it doesn't, y know what's holding it back) it'll be bc it becomes the most efficient way of obtaining dinero. I doubt it ever will be, human slave labor from resource-ravaged post-colonial countries is pretty hard to beat
this
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/2Gb3y.jpeg)
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It's not even technology tho, it's all capital. Tech. isn't a material thing, it's an abstract idea that conveniently mashes together information and capital. People don't use stuff like GPS in their businesses just because the information is out there, they invest in capital (GPS equipment and training) in order to stay in the game or get ahead of the game; ie in order secure more capital. that's what the system necessitates. the old way is a less efficient means of gettin capital, so it's obsolete. if robots take over it won't be because the info exists (it already does, or if it doesn't, y know what's holding it back) it'll be bc it becomes the most efficient way of obtaining dinero. I doubt it ever will be, human slave labor from resource-ravaged post-colonial countries is pretty hard to beat
it is a neat subject to think about
I get what point you're trying to make (its a good one but you're looking at it from mostly an intellectual viewpoint) the way you're talking is from a perspective that is entirely market based. The market is effected in that way because the technology is out there making the means easier. And for a business owner or corporation, this is a good thing. For the working man, it isn't. Look at the discovery of the automated assembly line and how it completely decimated alot of our domestic job market. The progression of technology if not carefully observed could infact cut out the poorer, uneducated person if it progressed in a manner that technology could overwhelm and overcompensate for the gap between lower and upper class.
Imagine if infact the right wing business tycoons in this country were allowed to get their way. To make it harder for the poor to seek a proper education and training and for that to be almost exclusive to the priviledged few. This has and is happening in an unrealized and undeveloped fashion (in the south mostly (right to work)) technology just hasn't jumped that far ahead yet.
And honestly outsourcing jobs to poorer countries isn't percieved as "human slave-labor" to those country-men. Infact alot of them revieve more monetary rewards and benefits that they would never see in their own countries that haven't really developed as far as workers rights and civil rights. To us it seems like human slave labor because we realize that they still aren't getting jack shit compared to what they should be. But to them they're content if not more so.
Its not really the evil businessman reaping the labor of the poor 3rd world as much as the poor 3rd world isn't self aware. Which you cannot entirely blame on their own corrupt government and way of business because our business leader should definitely know better.
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That last part about "slave labor" I didn't even realize myself until working with people in that position and talking to them and figuring out what exactly they were dealing with. Yes it is fucked up but that is a product international segregation and slowly alot of countries are gaining wealth and enough self-awareness to slowly try to repair said problem. Most still don't give a fuck cus they don't have to though.
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EDIT: This is a response to Fuckcrypt, Farren, Tristero, and Earlchip. Beginning unmarked quotes parts are for Fuckcrypt.
Whoa, Fuckcrypt. I've never read Marx or any other economic theory stuff at all so a decent amount of that went over my head. Please note, I'm too separeted from this sort of thing to have a concrete belief/stance on it. So I'm going to sort of mildly play devil advocate. Though these are actual concerns.
Marx's theory of alienation (Entfremdung in German, which literally means "estrangement"), as expressed in the writings of the young Karl Marx (in particular the Manuscripts of 1844), refers to the separation of things that naturally belong together, or to put antagonism between things that are properly in harmony. In the concept's most important use, it refers to the social alienation of people from aspects of their "human nature" (Gattungswesen, usually translated as 'species-essence' or 'species-being'). He believed that alienation is a systematic result of capitalism.
4 things:
1) Not everything that is natural is good. Nor are the old ways of things.
2) I don't see it mention anywhere specifically what the 'things being separated' are exactly, I assume its something obvious that I glazed over or something.
3) what do you mean by "properly in harmony"?
4) "social alienation of people from aspects of their "human nature"" How is human nature defined in this context? Isn't "human Nature" something that hasn't exactly been completely understood anyway?
According to Marx, alienation is a systemic result of capitalism. Marx's theory of alienation is founded upon his observation that, within the capitalist mode of production, workers invariably lose determination of their lives and destinies by being deprived of the right to conceive of themselves as the director of their actions, to determine the character of their actions, to define their relationship to other actors, and to use or own the value of what is produced by their actions. Workers become autonomous, self-realized human beings, but are directed and diverted into goals and activities dictated by the bourgeoisie, who own the means of production in order to extract from workers the maximal amount of surplus value possible within the current state of competition between industrialists. By working, each contributes to the common wealth. Alienation in capitalist societies occurs because the worker can only express this fundamentally social aspect of individuality through a production system that is not collectively, but privately owned; a privatized asset for which each individual functions not as a social being, but as an instrument.
"invariably lose determination of their lives and destinies by being deprived of the right to conceive of themselves as the director of their actions" I assume you mean they lose control of their lives because they have no choice but to do what their boss or customers want of them, else they lose their job or their sales. This seems like a unfortunate shitty aspect of life that can't really be avoided with or without capitalism. (assuming you aren't so rich or powerful that you don't need to bother)
"Alienation in capitalist societies occurs because the worker can only express this fundamentally social aspect of individuality through a production system that is not collectively, but privately owned;" You lost me here, what fundamentally social aspect? and why can't they express it because the production system is privately owned?
Machine Labor vs Human Labor
Unfortunate, even tragic side effects. But it would have been worse and even outright illogical if progress had not been made because of this. IMHO.
Proletariat vs Bourgeois
Again, definitely shitty side effect. But its says right in the paragraph that the advancement in tech was a necessity. The upper class being dicks is arguably one of the few aspect of human nature most people would actually agree exists. People with any power/money can very easily be dicks. This isn't a sign that the technology was at fault. And I fail to see things turning out better if the technology was stunted/destroyed/ignored.
they realize that Man and his connection to the natural world are what truly matter.
I read this in "The Machine Stops" Wikipedia entry. It sounds like an awesome sci-fi story. But its obviously fueled by paranoia. "connection to the natural world" sounds like a very "mystic" thing in this context. I don't prescribe to mysticism. I hope you don't either. And trying to define what truly matters seems silly. There is no inherent meaning to life, or at least no common world meaning. Meaning for an individual comes from the individual them self. To be honest, The value of our connection to the natural world (in a general context) to me doesn't really seem altogether important at all. I mean its not important to me, not that its not important to some. That's sort of why I don't go outside often for anything other than necessity or to improve my health (fresh air, sunlight). I don't mind going out for the pretty scenery, but honestly I'd enjoy myself more doing other things.
america has been shedding its manual labor for many generations, either to robotics or to wage slaves in distant countries, and at no point has that lead to some post-scarcity utopia. when people lose their jobs on factory lines they don't get absorbed in to some easy life of fulfillment and leisure, they become the service-industry cogs that are milked for as much debt as they can stand.
This is definitely true. But I think that's because we are in a state of only partial automation. If everything was fully automated to the point that you could send a couple of commands to a machine and pay a bit for the electricity to run it that it could produce something out of whatever raw resource you put into it. I think things would go in 1 of 2 ways. The large or rich entities would use the new (and at this point cheap and easy to use) robots to produce for customers that can not or can barely afford them or the other more obvious 'optimistic futurist' possibility. One would be most definitely dystopian, the other would be most positively utopian. IDK which would necessarily be more likely.
after they finish their day working for minimum wage selling the plastic junk made by slaves, they get to go home and simulate pleasure through their televisions, or by paying zynga micro-transactions to pretend to do meaningful work on fake, cartoon farms. welcome to late capitalism.
Using Zynga/Farmville as an example is a pretty low blow. People who play Farmville/zynga games play them because have no taste or are apathetic lumps, not because they are victims of capitalistic greed (though they may be that as well), and you could hardly say someone playing say Halo, Call of Duty, or World of Warcraft for instance is a piece of evidence that they are victims of anything, especially since I know that if I was rich I'd still play video games, and that I know of others that would too.
With further dependance on technology humanity sort of loses a semblance with nature and our old ways. The ways of making and doing things with our minds and hands alone. Not to say we aren't just as smart or as capable, but when we (as a whole) kind of forget that frontiersmen aspect of ourselves, we leave ourselves vulnerable.
I don't think there is any inherent value in nature or old ways. I agree that we leave ourselves vulverable if we don't grasp the basics WITHOUT the technology. But technological advances don't HAVE to mean total dependence, or at least not for some. The common man maybe become dependent, which sucks, but the common man will always have experts and intellectuals to rely on (or at least one would hope).
Look at your cars. We went from carborated operated engines you could rebuild and work on almost anywhere to computer run engines that aren't repairable without certain technology. Even my own damn job, global navigation. We depend on GPS, radar, and all this other stuff. Which makes our jobs alot easier but the old way of navigating by the stars is kind of dying out. Yes you still have to know how to do some of that stuff but if you REALLY had to. Prolly wouldn't be good enough to be efficient enough imo.
If I'm not misunderstanding you, the car issue comes from proprietary parts, not advances in technology. I suppose it'd be a lot harder to have proprietary parts without computers though.
Well, yeah of course it wouldn't be as efficient, and we are better off with the newer tech. Using older means only as a fall back makes sense.
This is something that is pretty much undeniable and as we progress, so does that gap. But yeah its a totally fictional story and no its not happening now in the most realistic sense. But we are infact hurting ourselves with a certain dependence on technology without thinking about the consequence if somehow we lost it.
I agree.
Shit even people from before were generally more learned. Spoke more languages, spoke more articulately, studied independant sciences and global histories. Yes information is easier to get now but as technology grows we have less and less an inclination to give a shit.
We only gave a shit back then because being a intellectual over others gave you an advantage and knowledge was harder to obtain so it was more valuable as a result. People like valuable things. They knew that stuff for the power it gave them, not because of a genuine interest. I will admit though, our shitty brains didn't evolve to handle some technologies well, and the ease of access to information has DESTROYED our memory. I can't have an argument or discussion without looking up 2+ things.
But that book is mostly about classism, capitalist decay, and the growth of technology. You'd prolly have to read it to get it. Its not like soylent green style utopia just alot of manual labor like welding, automotive construction and repair. Shit that machines are actually doing now. The concept is that not only did those machines get built to do everything but pretty much maintain themselves too.
Maybe I'll read it. But I have difficulty reading older stuff, so I usually just read the cliff notes/summary for stuff like that. I know its not the same, but its better than nothing. The only author I probably wont do this for when I get around to reading his stuff is Lovecraft.
I doubt it ever will be, human slave labor from resource-ravaged post-colonial countries is pretty hard to beat
it is a neat subject to think about
One would hope there would be some sort of social/financial punishment for using such unethical means to produce and profit to deter such actions in the first place. Shit sucks.
This discussion brought up a question that I've asked myself in my mind and others before. What drives the super rich to become richer? When they reach a point of wealth were basically every conceivable need is covered and would be for the rest of their lives even if they stopped, why do they continue to bother?
my only guess is that they view it as a competition, where their money is their high score. WOO HOO I HAD MORE MONEY THAN YOU WHEN I DIED THAN WHEN YOU DIED! -said/thought no one because the dead don't speak or think.
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Which I think is actually kinda sad. Yeah I like money for what I can do with it and what it can buy, but in the end, what matters to me is that I leave this world knowing my actions have left it at least a little bit better than when I entered it.
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I don't think there is any inherent value in nature or old ways. I agree that we leave ourselves vulverable if we don't grasp the basics WITHOUT the technology. But technological advances don't HAVE to mean total dependence, or at least not for some. The common man maybe become dependent, which sucks, but the common man will always have experts and intellectuals to rely on (or at least one would hope).
well, when I talk about this I don't mean strictly shit like "how to make iron tools with fire and sticks". But more like the survival aspect of it? I mean even in an entirely urban environment alot of that stuff can still be used. IE: first aid, ecology, self-defense. Stuff like that.
If more people knew how to keep a human heart beating after a heart attack or how to handle someone in shock. How to grow their own healthy food sources or defend themselves we'd be alot better off as a whole. I'm talking about a more modern outlook and perspective on applying these things to everyday life.
Well, yeah of course it wouldn't be as efficient, and we are better off with the newer tech. Using older means only as a fall back makes sense.
pretty much what I was getting at. I mentioned the car thing because its still pretty valid now, alot of used cars still have proprietary parts and learning how to operate and maintain is a good thing.
Other points like learning about manually operated well pumps, solar energy, stuff like that. Actually, alot of new tech coming out like solar energy thats naturally dependant is a good example of making tech with that kind of "what if" or independency in mind.
Also vonnegut's writing style is very easy to understand, much more so than lovecraft in my opinion. Lovecraft wrote in 1920s with old school style english and vonnegut wrote later on about 50s/60s? And his stuff really does apply even now imo and the way he saw the future isn't farfetched.
The ONLY reason I even checked out vonnegut is because billy maze died at the same time he did. It was billy maze or some other shit pop culture icon and steel was totally stupified and pissed off about the fact that vonnegut died and no one gave a shit. I figured he must have had a pretty good reason for being so upset so I read "Cats Cradle" (another good book about the growth of technology and weapons of mass destruction) and got hooked ever since.
After World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), Kurt Vonnegut worked in the public relations department for the General Electric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric) research company. GE hired scientists and let them do pure research, and his job was to interview these scientists and find good stories about their research. Vonnegut felt that the older scientists were indifferent about the ways their discoveries might be used. The Nobel Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize)-winning chemist Irving Langmuir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Langmuir), who worked with Vonnegut's older brother Bernard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Vonnegut) at GE, became the model for Dr. Felix Hoenikker. Vonnegut said in an interview with The Nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation) that "Langmuir was absolutely indifferent to the uses that might be made of the truths he dug out of the rock and handed out to whoever was around, but any truth he found was beautiful in its own right, and he didn’t give a damn who got it next."
This is why vonnegut is so good. Probably my favorite vonnegut writing is at the very end of cats cradle which I'd quote or tell but it would ruin it.
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probably one of the best programs I've heard of teaches prisoners about horticulture, and later about sustainable planting and maintenance, and I guess what you'd call permaculture.
I've faintly heard about this somewhere and I think it is awesome but you don't have near enough programs like that or people pushing for stuff like that. Most people just want to see prisoners suffer because they generally feel the all deserve to be in there. And any kind of program that directly benefits them pisses them off.
Around here they use them for a kind of civil labor, to do jobs that the county/state doesn't want to pay working people to do. They get an incentive to do it but not like what you're talking about. My bro and his buddy would stop and throw them cigarrettes sometimes.
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what the fuck i haven't posted here in 4 years
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i'm really surprised this place is still going (that's nice!). this is treg. hi blackwell
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sup brah
if you like it get your egghead buddies interested they seem to have a likeness to this place
What drives the super rich to become richer? When they reach a point of wealth were basically every conceivable need is covered and would be for the rest of their lives even if they stopped, why do they continue to bother?
I personally think its all because of adversity. 99.99% of those people are born into priveledge and have no understanding on what it is like to deal with adversity or overcome adversity. They have their ignorant, often times bigoted viewpoints and are not put into a position or environment to second think about their bullshit. So, those people aren't necessarily doing evil or being evil they're just so out of touch with the world they think they're doing good or justice, either for themselves, their own, or even with good intentions.
I mean look at successful people now that have made it, that have had to deal with adversity and once they get to the super rich point they start giving that shit back because theres nothing else to do with it. Unless you're some kind of power mongering monster but I think thats more of a cop-out for the underprivledged.
Good examples of people that reached super rich and are giving back are: Oprah, Bill Gates, Lou Dobbs and Lil wayne
Lil wayne tries but is a little misguided I think. He's building alot of youth centers and youth programs around the new orleans areas but he still tends to act like an ass with his money. I'm blaming it on his youthfullness though I bet in the next five years he'll start turning into a fucking humanitarian mark my words.
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wow it's treg
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this account is embarassing
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Why not post as treg then?
Also, yeah Bill Gates did some crazy awesome stuff with his money.
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I get what point you're trying to make (its a good one but you're looking at it from mostly an intellectual viewpoint) the way you're talking is from a perspective that is entirely market based. The market is effected in that way because the technology is out there making the means easier.
well no, the point I was making, which is maybe worthless, is that the "technology" is relatively available only because it gives some competitive economic edge. otherwise, it's just information. eg the concept of GPS is information, but the use of GPS is based upon capital. a person from a poor country can look up GPS and know all about it and how it works, but without the capital that they lackl, they cannot actually use it. that starts to explain why the term technology is insufficient when we're talking about capitalism. the idea that (and not to imply you said it, I'm only using this as an example) one can simply introduce technology to an impoverished country or nation is the concept of modernization, which nearly everyone believes in without even thinking about it, but is totally incorrect
the rest of that paragraph was really talking about industrialization. I really want to talk to you about the story of industrialization someday, there are some nuances you might not know. like this:
Imagine if infact the right wing business tycoons in this country were allowed to get their way. To make it harder for the poor to seek a proper education and training and for that to be almost exclusive to the priviledged few. This has and is happening in an unrealized and undeveloped fashion (in the south mostly (right to work)) technology just hasn't jumped that far ahead yet.
has been going on for centuries. and there's so much to talk about in-between, like ebenezer howard and all the stuff that's pretty much failed up to this point
And honestly outsourcing jobs to poorer countries isn't percieved as "human slave-labor" to those country-men. Infact alot of them revieve more monetary rewards and benefits that they would never see in their own countries that haven't really developed as far as workers rights and civil rights. To us it seems like human slave labor because we realize that they still aren't getting jack shit compared to what they should be. But to them they're content if not more so.
I know this, but:
Its not really the evil businessman reaping the labor of the poor 3rd world as much as the poor 3rd world isn't self aware.
it really is, and there are people in those countries who are aware of it, but they can't do anything about it.
why are those countries poor? it's almost universally because the people were ravaged by colonialism and the land robbed robbed of its resources, or because the people were forced onto resource-poor land by artificial boundaries created by world powers acting in their own interests. that's why labor there is cheap and exploitable, that's why people call it slavery.
4 things:
1) Not everything that is natural is good. Nor are the old ways of things.
4) "social alienation of people from aspects of their "human nature"" How is human nature defined in this context? Isn't "human Nature" something that hasn't exactly been completely understood anyway?
the point isn't whether it's good or bad, which up to interpretation anyway. it's about the distress/alienation that is caused by parting from nature
I don't think it matters what specifically is human nature, I think the general point is that it's not whatever we've been talking about. the robotization of the workforce symbolizes the alienation of human beings from nature, as they are forced to act like machines to survive within the capitalist system
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It's not really that complex or a matter that hinges on the ethereal qualities present within our reality. In fact, it can be explained rather simply by math.
People who are rich get rich by their ability to exploit the poor. The only way for rich people to get more money is for poor people to earn money that is then given to rich people. The more money a rich person has, the more poor people have worked in order for him to gain that money.
Any economic system is going to affect the culture of the people who operate under it, and any economic system is defined by what the goal is for anyone operating under that system. Capitalism is, and always has been a system that's only goal is purely obtaining capital(that means money). The success of any entity operating inside that system is solely defined by the sheer amount of money that single entity can generate.
Given both of these facts are unavoidably true based on the pure logic behind that specific situation, then it is also unavoidably true that capitalism, at its heart, is a system that puts the most value on the sole ability to effectively exploit poor people.
You can defend the context of this act, or you can justifiably argue how this type of situation is ultimately unavoidable. But regardless of why or how, in order to personally support capitalism as a viable economic system, you have to agree with the idea that poor people are meant to be exploited, and must share in that goal in order to gain any quantifiable level of success within it. (which precisely is where someone should go with the "fundamental human nature" argument in order to validate this kind of stance)
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there are no self aware countries
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That's a really good point.
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capitalism isn't fucked up because of alienation though. it's fucked up because it incorrectly valuates/allocates social action, isn't fault tolerant, and is overall extremely vulnerable to being reconfigured by special interest groups. there is no nature to be separated from, but there is a lot of cultural imperialism. forcing people to do incredibly repetitive tasks for long hours in poor working conditions at low pay isn't bad because it makes them like machines, it's bad because it makes them sick, stressed and miserable. machines are fucking great at sudoku but people still love playing it. rather, the feeling of being culturally and socially reconfigured to be a human resource for the capitalist is a bunch of shit with or without the presence of machines.
not that I particularly disagree with the sentiment expressed by anyone here. i just got opinions on the phrasing of the problem and they came out my fingers.
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you're right. the machines comparison was only really out there because of the vonnegut book farren was talking about.
I think this "alienation" is a significant part of what's bad about capitalism tho. but I've been looking into the food industry a lot for the project I'm working on, so I'm probably particularly entrenched in that mode of thought right now
speaking of which, farren, I think you'd like the documentary food inc.
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I second the Food Inc recommendation.
I think that alienation is an interesting concept but I have a feeling that Marx oversimplified a bunch of things into the alienation of labour to fit his value-based analysis of capitalism. So much has happened since he wrote that I feel like it's useful to reinterpret and deconstruct his ideas. So I agree that a lot of what's wrong with capitalism can be seen as alienation, but I also think that it's probably better to deal with it in specifics instead because alienation of the labours of office workers isn't really all that similar to exploitation of sweat shop workers. The other thing is that it's hinged on labour and labour is difficult to pin down, which is why I'd prefer to look at it in terms of effects on the totality of social action instead.
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eg the concept of GPS is information, but the use of GPS is based upon capital.
to clarify about GPS
I'm talking about as a means of navigation not for personal use. For instance pretty much all commercial airplanes anywhere cannot operate without GPS, same with shipping.
If a ships gps fucks out they either have to fix it or get someone to fix it and find their way to port to do that using old means of navigation. Like using the stars and coastal navigation which is what I'm gonna be learning about soon for my license.
Even poorer countries now unless they're tribal poor, if they have a shipping or aerospace industry of any sort they aren't allowed to operate without GPS by international law but like I was getting at earlier nowadays alot of equipment isn't being made without that stuff already hardwired in. Imagine if a gigantic solar flare from hell knocked out the three (italy is launching a fourth one soon) of our satellites?
alot of shit would fall apart for awhile right then.
THIS JUST IN: TERRORIST ALIENS DESTROY GPS SATELLITES WORLD ECONOMY PLUMMETING
like even pilots know how to land and maybe get short distances without gps (I think) but none of our international traveling shits like that would be able to operate on a level that could sustain the status quo at any rate. Least I don't think so.
Atleast it would take alot longer to get anywhere and alot of the newer gen that are shying away from old navigation methods would have a terrible time till they got decent at it.
I really want to talk to you about the story of industrialization someday, there are some nuances you might not know. like this
make topics this stuff is really interesting and I like learning about it and I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't know too much about it.
I'll check Food Inc. out too.
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why are those countries poor? it's almost universally because the people were ravaged by colonialism and the land robbed robbed of its resources, or because the people were forced onto resource-poor land by artificial boundaries created by world powers acting in their own interests. that's why labor there is cheap and exploitable, that's why people call it slavery.
I dunno dude, look at mexico and now brazil. I'm speaking from the perspective the fuel industry though.
Mexico manages its own oil fields and like I mentioned awhile back they've got a good income as far as that goes. But the people that own the fields and that run them are corrupt as shit and keep the profits for themselves or sell them to the united states. I recently found out that most of the reason they do that is because they can't refine their own oil and they use the US to do that for them so we kind of got them by the balls. They have a couple refineries I think but not nearly enough to cover production.
Brazil is doing the same thing. Its their natural resources and that shit belongs to the brazillian gov't (I think they operate nearly the same way as mexico and pemex but I haven't been there yet). They can't drill for it or build rigs though so they hire international companies to do it. But once they pay to have the platforms built and producing the product is theirs.
Now I see the problem with their governments not distributing the wealth. Maybe those governments that were originally founded were founded by some fucked up european colonists or US corporate interests but NOW its all up to them and they're pretty much just repeating the cycle on their own.
I don't think oil companies are buying out those countries politicians like one might speculate because they really don't have to. Both those places are plenty fucked up on their own and you see those same companies doing same business stateside via the same methods, as far as environmental policies and labor management. That shit doesn't change no matter where we go.
Same goes for Nigeria, except its a way more dangerous place and you have to factor piracy and terrorism into that. Which is why many companies won't work there.
The EDC post was really good and this: machines are fucking great at sudoku but people still love playing it.
is funny
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Shaved my beard. My face now reveals how fat I am lol.
Also everyone thinks I look weird without my beard it seems.
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capitalism isn't fucked up because of alienation though. it's fucked up because it incorrectly valuates/allocates social action, isn't fault tolerant, and is overall extremely vulnerable to being reconfigured by special interest groups. there is no nature to be separated from, but there is a lot of cultural imperialism. forcing people to do incredibly repetitive tasks for long hours in poor working conditions at low pay isn't bad because it makes them like machines, it's bad because it makes them sick, stressed and miserable. machines are fucking great at sudoku but people still love playing it. rather, the feeling of being culturally and socially reconfigured to be a human resource for the capitalist is a bunch of shit with or without the presence of machines.
not that I particularly disagree with the sentiment expressed by anyone here. i just got opinions on the phrasing of the problem and they came out my fingers.
ugh.
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go on.
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the problem is alienation. there is no such thing as "correct" allocation or valuation of social action, that's the kinda gross shit that comes from cyberneticians and social engineers
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i'm not saying that alienation isn't a problem, i'm saying that it's a consequence of other problems, and a general description of effects. any attempt at an economic system also constitutes an implicit attempt to valuate/allocate social action. the creation of institutions consists of social engineering. if you think that i'm advocating invasive centralised social social engineering, i'm not. i'm not saying that we should come along and impose a mechanism for valuating and allocating social action according to my ideals of correctness, I'm being very technical and using correctness as it is used in algorithms: capitalism does not work as it is prescribed to work. it's broken. you're right that it has a systems theory ring to it. i happen to think that a dynamic systems approach to marx's analysis of the commodity-money-commodity cycle is interesting, and i hear it's been used pretty interestingly. most of this is stuff I came up with to interpret marx's labour theory of value to economics students in the face of various criticisms. e.g. difficulty of pinning down concept of labour, non-labour factors in price, whether or not it takes demand into account (economists characterise him as not doing this lol.)
maybe there's some deeper problems with what i'm saying here but it would be cool if you would point them out. kind of seems like your present complaint is more aesthetic than analytic.
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megan ganz comes over to your pile of pillows and blankets where you sleep. she rubs behind your ears, "you're a nerd aren't you?" she rubs under your chin, and coos, "you're just a little geek? you're such a nerdy little geek!" you roll over, besides yourself with bliss, she scratches your tummy and says, "you just love consumer culture to an unhealthy degree don't you!? you identify with it!" your leg begins to kick. you cannot help it. "who's my little nerd?!" you are.
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like even pilots know how to land and maybe get short distances without gps (I think) but none of our international traveling shits like that would be able to operate on a level that could sustain the status quo at any rate. Least I don't think so.
Just chiming in to say that while very useful, GPS is not essential to aeronautical navigation. Any pilot with an IFR rating will know how to fly across the country, or even the ocean, using nothing but ground radio beacons, ATC, and a magnetic compass. Also, as long as you can get close enough to pick up an airfield's radio beacon (often a VOR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range), which was developed 75 years ago and is still used today) you're fine; GPS has nothing to do with landing an airplane.
okay carry on gents
Edit: also, look up intertial navigation systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system), still used on many aircraft today including the KC-135 which I flew on.
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I just realized Belross still has a vomiting avatar and how long ago that... started...
EDIT: I never did figure out why it started in the first place.
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lol this is kinda gross. I mean, I'd rather eat the real things over these ones. I'm sure they don't taste like them. I mean how can you get the Haggis to taste real when it's made from oats and nuts? It's not gonna...
http://www.vegancorner.com/blog/v/strangely-alluring-seven-most-bizarre-vegan-foods
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smoke weed saltw
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kind of seems like your present complaint is more aesthetic than analytic.
no, i think you just don't understand marx or capital as well as you think you do and you're completely wrong.
capitalism does not work as it is prescribed to work. it's broken.
that's just silly. it was never "prescribed" to "work", it wasn't a deliberate algorithm that was designed by the overlords to operate in a certain way. This is an ahistorical and frankly autistic way to view society
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Just chiming in to say that while very useful, GPS is not essential to aeronautical navigation. Any pilot with an IFR rating will know how to fly across the country, or even the ocean, using nothing but ground radio beacons, ATC, and a magnetic compass. Also, as long as you can get close enough to pick up an airfield's radio beacon (often a VOR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range), which was developed 75 years ago and is still used today) you're fine; GPS has nothing to do with landing an airplane.
okay carry on gents
Edit: also, look up intertial navigation systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system), still used on many aircraft today including the KC-135 which I flew on.
What about magnetic compass error? Is it just less prominent in flying or do you have to figure that shit while you're flying?
Thats pretty much how we fall back magnetic compass and radar but we use Gyro compasses that factor out the error. Maybe its when weighing in currents and point of reference from sea that makes it more difficult. I'm not saying its not possible but way less efficient causing alot of commercial flight deadlines and shipping deadlines to not be met causing the market to be effected because of the adaption of the economy to easier tech?
I dunno but if you can elaborate please do because I'm just really getting into this stuff. I just finished a radar and Arpa class and learning about the development of radar in ww2 and its advancement to today is pretty awesome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_compass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_compass)
This is what I'm talking about compass that uses gps though I think thats a modern thing, the gps being intigrated. I think a gyro compass is an advanced form of your gyroscope.
no, i think you just don't understand marx or capital as well as you think you do and you're completely wrong
why are you being a condescending dick dude I thought we were getting past that shit.
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why are you being a condescending dick dude I thought we were getting past that shit.
fuck you, i'm drunk and he's wrong
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dude I bet I could fly a plane with a little training.
I'm only gonna use 3 of the 6 direction of forces(I think its called (is there 6 on a plane?) Sway, Surge, and Yaw
we use VHF too but I dunno if its the same or not. Like we use VHF radios and I think we have a short distance VHF nav thing but I don't know if its what you're talking about.
My mom is a secretary for the local DOD airforce base or something like that and that pilot training is supposed to be incredibly strenuous and difficult kudos for getting through that shit. I don't think I could do it I'd probably go insane from the stress alone.
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$quot dietcoke || biggles autistic (!!) $quot;;;;;
no dialogue possible without charitable interpretation etc. it's always difficult to get through this stuff in short sentences so if you got book recs then i'm game. hard to think of a better source than the guy himself but I have taken Capital pretty sideways so far. in order to take him completely at face value, i'd need a familiarity with Hegel beyond what I can stomach. instead I'm approaching it like someone trained in theoretical computer science who likes Russell a lot and knows enough about the philosophers who influenced Marx to get a decent grip on his argument style and enough economics and anthropology to know about some of the debates that followed. because that's who I get to be today. dude has a massive academic legacy though. in that sense, understanding Marx isn't something many people achieve.
i expect that you do know more about contemporary marxism than I do. i'd sure like to know what you believe, but my vast ignorance cannot be cured with the exchanging of fightin' words.
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lots of ppl can fly a plane. a buddy of mine took lessons on a little cessna and I went up with him a few times, those little planes are a whole lot of fun
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$quot dietcoke || biggles autistic (!!) $quot;;;;;
no dialogue possible without charitable interpretation etc. it's always difficult to get through this stuff in short sentences so if you got book recs then i'm game. hard to think of a better source than the guy himself but I have taken Capital pretty sideways so far. in order to take him completely at face value, i'd need a familiarity with Hegel beyond what I can stomach. instead I'm approaching it like someone trained in theoretical computer science who likes Russell a lot and knows enough about the philosophers who influenced Marx to get a decent grip on his argument style and enough economics and anthropology to know about some of the debates that followed. because that's who I get to be today. dude has a massive academic legacy though. in that sense, understanding Marx isn't something many people achieve.
i expect that you do know more about contemporary marxism than I do. i'd sure like to know what you believe, but my vast ignorance cannot be cured with the exchanging of fightin' words.
w/e i have a science and math background too but it really doesn't matter with regards to understanding this stuff, they're just books. i mean if you stuck to the cybernetics angle you could make a compelling, if creepy, case for your position but since you're dragging marx into the discussion and admitting you don't really understand him then the situation presents several limitations as to where this discussion can even go. Read Capital Vol. 1, the penguin edition with the Mandel introduction and 'Results of the Immediate Process of Production' as an appendix, I guess if you're looking for a book rec.
idk where you're even coming from with needing to read hegel to understand capital "at face value", that's ridiculous and sounds like a more of a posture/excuse more than anything. it's a pretty straightforward text and was deliberately written to be accessible to an audience outside of academia.
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I just ordered a copy of Capital. Maybe a bunch of us should read it and make a topic here for a Capital study group. We can assist each other and not call each other fucking retards who make each other want to puke all the time.
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I just ordered a copy of Capital. Maybe a bunch of us should read it and make a topic here for a Capital study group. We can assist each other and not call each other fucking retards who make each other want to puke all the time.
if u got questions about it msg me and i will do the best i can to answer u. i'd recommend reading it along with David Harvey's lectures as he's really good at breaking it down(even though he's dumb liberal politically)
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dude I bet I could fly a plane with a little training.
I'm only gonna use 3 of the 6 direction of forces(I think its called (is there 6 on a plane?) Sway, Surge, and Yaw
we use VHF too but I dunno if its the same or not. Like we use VHF radios and I think we have a short distance VHF nav thing but I don't know if its what you're talking about.
My mom is a secretary for the local DOD airforce base or something like that and that pilot training is supposed to be incredibly strenuous and difficult kudos for getting through that shit. I don't think I could do it I'd probably go insane from the stress alone.
I'm not sure what you mean by directional forces, but on an aircraft the 3 axes of movement are pitch, yaw, and roll. Unless you mean shit like drag vs. thrust and lift vs. weight?
Edit: also I realized that magnetic compasses are less error prone on aircraft because they are mostly aluminum, whilst ships are primarily steel.
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yeah thats true about the aluminum I didn't think about that.
Yeah I meant directional forces. I deal with those but not drag vs thrust and lift vs weight.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen001.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen002.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen003.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen004.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen005.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen006.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen007.webp)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/SnapzProXScreen008.webp)
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(http://www.deviantart.com/download/172313930/Dancing_Baby_Chick_by_CWangzRuLe.gif)
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lol I could've bought a copy of Fighting Force 2 today but I watched a video of it and I'm glad I didn't. But my mind lit up after the oppurtunity was gone like OBSCURE GAME must get
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lol I could've bought a copy of Fighting Force 2 today but I watched a video of it and I'm glad I didn't. But my mind lit up after the oppurtunity was gone like OBSCURE GAME must get
i did this a few times when my mom would go bargain shopping at the ollie's outlet (they get shipments of junk that other stores can't sell and sell it for like 60% of MSRP). i remember getting this 2.5D FPS where you deathmatched bots in terrible yellow and orange labyrinths (can't remember the name) as well as this pile of shit called witchhaven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r3wJuY0c1E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r3wJuY0c1E).
i still enjoy going in to junk stores on occasion and checking out the decade old software they have. PROFINANCE 1999, EXPERT CALENDAR 2001, GOLF MAGAZINE PRESENTS: GOLF
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i did this a few times when my mom would go bargain shopping at the ollie's outlet (they get shipments of junk that other stores can't sell and sell it for like 60% of MSRP). i remember getting this 2.5D FPS where you deathmatched bots in terrible yellow and orange labyrinths (can't remember the name) as well as this pile of shit called witchhaven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r3wJuY0c1E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r3wJuY0c1E).
hey those monster sprites are kind of funky/belongs in dumbtopic
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Started running. It's nice :)
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i want to learn so much
i don't know a damn thing
like you guys talk and debate about all this stuff and it largely goes over my head
i think i struggle with properly understanding academic/scholar language
no motivation to do anything about it though
sitting here festering in mundanity....
hikikomori..
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actually yeah if anyone has any good links/tips to uh comprehending critical thought that'd be really good, i know they teach a lot of this stuff in college/university but me being the dumpster that i am decided to do a non-academic degree at a shitty university and even then didn't finish so yeah!!
still, no excuse for not teaching myself this stuff
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just read about what you're interested in and go from there. When we/gw discuss shit look up everything on google/wiki/whatever you don't know and ask questions thats what I do.
Hey also I gotta question. I'm getting a girl drawn on the top of my arm for the final part of my tattoo and she's supposed to be the embodiment of beauty/life and all that good shit. I'm trying to figure out exactly how I want her to look.
Right now I'm thinking like a tropic/natural look with one of those scarf bottoms that girls tend to tie around their waists and the same kind of top that they tie in an X around their chest and to the back. I dunno what these are called though and I need to get a picture of what both of them look like to show my bud so he can draw it.
I just need some pics of girls wearing those things or maybe what they're called so I can find something, thanks.
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actually yeah if anyone has any good links/tips to uh comprehending critical thought that'd be really good, i know they teach a lot of this stuff in college/university but me being the dumpster that i am decided to do a non-academic degree at a shitty university and even then didn't finish so yeah!!
still, no excuse for not teaching myself this stuff
what exactly is it that u want to understand?
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all you gotta know is that everything is a lie except science
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Farren, you might want to look at some Gauguin paintings. It's a sarong.
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just read about what you're interested in and go from there. When we/gw discuss shit look up everything on google/wiki/whatever you don't know and ask questions thats what I do.
Hey also I gotta question. I'm getting a girl drawn on the top of my arm for the final part of my tattoo and she's supposed to be the embodiment of beauty/life and all that good shit. I'm trying to figure out exactly how I want her to look.
http://tinyurl.com/797usqf
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Ok these are close, I like the first one the most.
http://bevshots.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/440x/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/l/e/lemon_1.jpg (http://bevshots.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/440x/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/l/e/lemon_1.jpg)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RcdBDlMh36g/TgiYZ2Xvf6I/AAAAAAAAAfk/C6WMxFuO0kU/s1600/Beach-Sarong.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RcdBDlMh36g/TgiYZ2Xvf6I/AAAAAAAAAfk/C6WMxFuO0kU/s1600/Beach-Sarong.jpg)
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00OMFQeAYWEToP/Ladies-Fashion-Sarong-Pareo-Beach-Scarves-07AU-SG092-.jpg (http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00OMFQeAYWEToP/Ladies-Fashion-Sarong-Pareo-Beach-Scarves-07AU-SG092-.jpg)
http://blog.brazilianbikinishop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/spurplel.jpg (http://blog.brazilianbikinishop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/spurplel.jpg)
This is the kind of top I'm talking about but smaller and the woman wearing it looks stupid/looks stupid in it. She looks like a power-walking amatuer yoga master. But if anyone knows what its called or knows a better pic much appreciated:
http://www.thedreaminggoddess.com/images/yemanja%20sarong%20ensemble.jpg (http://www.thedreaminggoddess.com/images/yemanja%20sarong%20ensemble.jpg)
Farren, you might want to look at some Gauguin paintings
I definitely don't like the way he draws women. I'm looking for more pretty hour glass shape kind of like a pinup but not as tasteless. I do like the eyes though.
http://www.canvasreplicas.com/images/Ondine%20Paul%20Gauguin.jpg (http://www.canvasreplicas.com/images/Ondine%20Paul%20Gauguin.jpg)
All wrinkly like she's been in the water for hours/days and sick looking. God its like that guy took the beauty perspective and just shit all over it.
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http://tinyurl.com/797usqf (http://tinyurl.com/797usqf)
shodan is wise and knows that all of mankind's needs can be solved by dumpster diving
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guy from the new honda commercial looks like sazh
(no not matthew broderick)
http://youtu.be/UkoeFZ8jbi4?t=6s
this guy could get some anime chicks at "cons" if he "cosplayed"
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I was going to call you racist for saying that any black guy with an afro looks like Sazh
But then I saw the video and holy shit, it's him in the flesh!!!
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I definitely don't like the way he draws women. I'm looking for more pretty hour glass shape kind of like a pinup but not as tasteless.
http://tinyurl.com/7j6jke5
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nothing to see here, just a macross arcade cab in eastenders
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2a69osCHy1qbma86o3_1280.png)
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Look at their haggard cockney faces haha
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do u remember love, luv??
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http://tinyurl.com/7j6jke5 (http://tinyurl.com/7j6jke5)
who does that.
I'm talkin this kind of shape
http://rickspinups.webs.com/photos/Pin-Up-Art/7-1.jpg (http://rickspinups.webs.com/photos/Pin-Up-Art/7-1.jpg)
http://www.airbrushing-pin-ups-portraits.org/world-war-two-sexy-pinup-aibrush-art.jpg (http://www.airbrushing-pin-ups-portraits.org/world-war-two-sexy-pinup-aibrush-art.jpg)
cept not a "DUH YOU CAUGHT ME IN A REALLY SEXY POSE" look. She'll be wearing the sarong and tied top and hopefully not quite as anorexic lookin'.
I asked him to draw it out. he's a pretty good artist but kinda shakey sometimes and I haven't seen his girlies yet.
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I got lucky and a tugboat carrying our material barge needed an AB so they could get out of mexico and into the states. So I get to ride it and stay the night in Louisiana. I'll be riding it for like five days though so if I don't come back in a month or somethin that means that I got caught in that storm thats supposed to be around and I'm floating somewhere in mexico
I wish I got to stay longer in mexico though cus I keep seeing alot of gorgeous girls everywhere and a couple were eyeballin'
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what the famicom fatwah is this
http://www.gameskyrim.com/
http://www.gameskyrim.com/dunmer-slang-t47688.html
http://www.gameskyrim.com/your-pathetic-forum-dead-t165783.html
is this an elaborate gag/spam board or did it get hit by a hacker who decided to replace all the posters' avatars with his myspace friends' profile pics or what
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udS-OcNtSWo
Lol
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what the famicom fatwah is this
http://www.gameskyrim.com/ (http://www.gameskyrim.com/)
http://www.gameskyrim.com/dunmer-slang-t47688.html (http://www.gameskyrim.com/dunmer-slang-t47688.html)
http://www.gameskyrim.com/your-pathetic-forum-dead-t165783.html (http://www.gameskyrim.com/your-pathetic-forum-dead-t165783.html)
is this an elaborate gag/spam board or did it get hit by a hacker who decided to replace all the posters' avatars with his myspace friends' profile pics or what
this is like tomatoland dream come true/it's really good holy shit but you'd wish there was talented people/individuals burning time there
also yesterday my chem class had a task where it was asked to convert 10 psi to atm (atmosphere). i drew a smiling squished/diamond head ness right next to it. so much for class in class/groan sorry for wasting ur time but really/truly, this improved my day by some percent...
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what the famicom fatwah is this
http://www.gameskyrim.com/ (http://www.gameskyrim.com/)
http://www.gameskyrim.com/dunmer-slang-t47688.html (http://www.gameskyrim.com/dunmer-slang-t47688.html)
http://www.gameskyrim.com/your-pathetic-forum-dead-t165783.html (http://www.gameskyrim.com/your-pathetic-forum-dead-t165783.html)
is this an elaborate gag/spam board or did it get hit by a hacker who decided to replace all the posters' avatars with his myspace friends' profile pics or what
that's amazing
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an entire forum for spambots to get together and talk about skyrim under the stolen identities of various twitter teens. the mechanical hiss of a new intelligence.
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do u remember love, luv??
<3
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhvdtX72eQ&feature=g-logo&context=G2b16b52FOAAAAAAAJAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhvdtX72eQ&feature=g-logo&context=G2b16b52FOAAAAAAAJAA)
shittabear
this might be old internet shit but hahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i9ICMmk1G8&feature=related
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okay so apparently hybridzero is a misogynist and believes men rule the world because women can't handle the stress.
so I tried to debate it with him on irc but then he put me on ignore.
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Pokemon+Nobunaga's Ambition's been confirmed to be coming to the US as Pokemon Conquest on June 18th. (http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_%2B_Nobunaga%27s_Ambition_localization_confirmed)\, and may well be available by its original name in Australia.
May CoroCoro info on Pokemon B2&W2 has been leaked. (http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/May_issue_of_CoroCoro_magazine_leaked)
I'm helping with riddles for a game.
I'm also going to see a performance of a hot comedian tomorrow night. (http://www.scottnevins.com/about%20scott.html)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIPBEPd1ks
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIPBEPd1ks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIPBEPd1ks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2seG400q4
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWQru7Rxx8g
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okay so apparently hybridzero is a misogynist and believes men rule the world because women can't handle the stress.
so I tried to debate it with him on irc but then he put me on ignore.
One wonders, if you were to get into this discussion with every well known member from the past GW eras on this topic what the percentage of them would be misogynists.
Also, http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-women-will-rule-future/
Also, Dada, have you checked the feedback forums as of late?
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Also, Dada, have you checked the feedback forums as of late?
I've been a little inactive because I've been sick, but what we're planning is to move the forums to a better software (Invision), and then my goal is to implement a couple of oft-requested features like spoiler/hide tags, etc.
Also lol that article is awful.
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the Perfect Game for a Beautiful Spring Day! - gently lift the flower to its goal while listening to the soothing sounds of B101. watch out for rustic fences and lanterns! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYGRi2A4XmY
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I am the replacement for utubeguy35. 20th Century Pictures is a company that will make the best videos on YouTube.
Our slogan is: The Real Kind of Entertainment.
Our animation subsidiary is Crew508. Crew508 does all of our 2D and 3D animation.
News:
1. Crew508 is now animating CrazyGermanKidVIVOs videos. Tube Roman will produce until the end of Season 3.
2. 20th Century Pictures will now support the use of 4shared.com. 4shared is our official website for storing and uploading up to 15 GB of videos and data for our company.
3. We are now going to film elevators in the New England area. Who knows we may even become friends or enemies with NewEnglandElevators!
Current Video Editing software: Vegas 7 (production)
Adobe After Effects CS5.5 (effects)
Adobe Flash CS5 (animation)
20th Century Pictures projects:
1. Film an elevator
Crew508 projects:
1. Hitler's War 2 (for HitlerVIVO)
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hi fuckcrypt wtf is that youtube channel. Also Mikaela's Words Colors does not exist I'm pretty sure. Also I hope this person is like 47. Also lol Sonic the Hedgehog fans remember that thread a while ago
http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors.PNG
http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors_poster.GIF
I like the alternate universe this person lives in
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hi fuckcrypt wtf is that youtube channel. Also Mikaela's Words Colors does not exist I'm pretty sure. Also I hope this person is like 47. Also lol Sonic the Hedgehog fans remember that thread a while ago
http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors.PNG (http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors.PNG)
http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors_poster.GIF (http://dance-dance-revolution.wikia.com/wiki/File:Mikayla%27s_Words_Colors_poster.GIF)
I like the alternate universe this person lives in
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb9z27_a-little-learning_shortfilms
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Does anyone know how I can access my old El_Nerdo/Casey And His Brother account? The email I used for it is now being used for this account I made temporarily back when I first discovered GW had fallen.
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well just got done watching Pittsburgh vs flyers let's just say Pittsburgh has a bunch of fags on it's team and there going down.
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well just got done watching Pittsburgh vs flyers let's just say Pittsburgh has a bunch of fags on it's team and there going down.
you're a fag
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you're a fag
Guess your a dirty fag lover. Kiss me baby!
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Guess your a dirty fag lover. Kiss me baby!
i'll cut you open
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i'll cut you open
*Whacks him with a rainbow flag* Behave, sweetie, or I'll get out the handcuffs. :P
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well just got done watching Pittsburgh vs flyers let's just say Pittsburgh has a bunch of fags on it's team and there going down.
Please stop doing that. It's really immature to use fag as an insult. You're not 13 anymore.
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Goddamnit I feel like shit
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I'm prolly gonna have to kick my brother and his gf out of a house I was renting with them to help them out because we both needed a place to stay at the time and I figured if I paid half of 900$ by myself and let them split 450$ it should be easy enough for them to handle. Apparently not and now my brother owes me 700$ in backrent and probably the next month too (he's only given me 200$ in 4 weeks and keeps ignoring me or acting like a defensive asshole about it when I ask). They both work she got laid off of one job and couldn't pull unemployment anymore but they should be more than capable of atleast giving me what they can.
I am so sick of this shit. I had to go through my mom using me like this trying to get me to pay for half her payments on the house + electricity (even when I'm not even there). while renting out a room to a stranger to get the other half (so she wouldn't pay shit.) I originally moved in with her to help her out because her and my dad got a divorce but she just started fucking taking advantage of me and when I asked her to lower the rent since I was hardly there and she wasn't paying shit she pretty much told me to fuck off.
I can't do this anymore I can't fuck with these people anymore. They put me through hell growing up and I thought they'd get better but I was wrong. If I end up kicking him out I'll probably not talk to very many if any of my living relatives after this. The only one left now is my 17 year old kid brother.
Goddamnit I feel like shit
it's your older brother then? You couild play the maturity card, attempt to shame him into paying, though it might not work.
Fuckcrypt watch your mouth.
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No
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That sounds like a mess Farren, but maybe once you get out of this web of familial financial obligations things won't be so strained. If the way you've characterised them is accurate then you probably don't need to be helping your brother fund his irresponsible lifestyle anyway, so, you shouldn't feel bad about cutting them off - or at least taking a hard line until you get what money they owe you.
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yeah
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That sounds pretty nasty, I hope you can resolve that. There are few things more depressing than financial problems and it sounds particularly terrible when your family keeps coming to you for money and then completely mishandles it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajVGIRsKXdo
hologram of 2pac performing live. The future is now
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It's not really a hologram though. It's just a very nice projection.
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i want to see the hatsune miku / 2pac tour
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special guest hide
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that tupac hologram makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. i'm still reeling.
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it's pretty fucking ghoulish, imo, but also awesome because of that.
i don't know how close snoop dog and dre ever were with tupac but performing next to his electronic ghost must have been a least a little surreal
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Please stop doing that. It's really immature to use fag as an insult. You're not 13 anymore.
After viewing your post I will have to say no. Your right I'm not 13 and I simply do not care even at my age I view the internet as a place where I could say anything just because I feel like it and that will never change. But some thing I say don't reflect my true views also most circumstances I would not use such words but I say them anyway as long as it's on the internet it's none of my concerns.
Also did you see that game Pittsburgh was playing so dirty. They deserve to be called more. the the last part of the game trun-ed into brawl
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After viewing your post I will have to say no. Your right I'm not 13 and I simply do not care even at my age I view the internet as a place where I could say anything just because I feel like it and that will never change. But some thing I say don't reflect my true views also most circumstances I would not use such words but I say them anyway as long as it's on the internet it's none of my concerns.
Also did you see that game Pittsburgh was playing so dirty. They deserve to be called more. the the last part of the game trun-ed into brawl
as long as it's just on the internet i'm going to saw off your smegma-smelling disgusting bro dick and shove it in down your fucking throat
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as long as it's just on the internet i'm going to saw off your smegma-smelling disgusting bro dick and shove it in down your fucking throat
What is with all your hate? Did I molest you when your where baby? If I did it's because I knew you would be a full on DDay hater.
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What is with all your hate? Did I molest you when your where baby?
here's a picture i drew for you
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/PreviewScreenSnapz001.webp)
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here's a picture i drew for you
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/PreviewScreenSnapz001.webp)
Sadly I don't think you drew it because I thinks it's beyond the scoop of your capabilities maybe you should stick to your long ass retro gaming post and leave the trolling to the professionals.
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Sadly I don't think you drew it because I thinks it's beyond the scoop of your capabilities maybe you should stick to your long ass retro gaming post and leave the trolling to the professionals.
http://dominobooks.org/cbren.html (http://dominobooks.org/cbren.html)
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http://dominobooks.org/cbren.html (http://dominobooks.org/cbren.html)
I Don't get it but at least it's light on flaming unlike your other post.
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let it go gang
next time dada, maybe you wanna try to restrain your urge to insult and just say something like "language like that isn't tolerated here". I think you will find it to be much more successful at actually getting ppl to listen, rather than forcing them to defend themselves YOU STUPID HEAD
I Don't get it but at least it's light on flaming unlike your other post.
fucks's saying fuck made those cartoons
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let it go gang
next time dada, maybe you wanna try to restrain your urge to insult and just say something like "language like that isn't tolerated here". I think you will find it to be much more successful at actually getting ppl to listen, rather than forcing them to defend themselves YOU STUPID HEAD
he's saying he made those cartoons
That's cool and all but it falls short because a link proves nothing. so it's still nothing to me.
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That's cool and all but it falls short because a link proves nothing. so it's still nothing to me.
who cares
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was going to post but there are way too many faggots in here
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*munches loudly on large handful of popcorn*
*sound of trying to suck the last few drops of soda through straw*
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next time dada, maybe you wanna try to restrain your urge to insult and just say something like "language like that isn't tolerated here". I think you will find it to be much more successful at actually getting ppl to listen, rather than forcing them to defend themselves YOU STUPID HEAD
earlchip: still mad about my tone
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This was pretty cool use of AR, flash and some minor server-side video processing: http://chaosinyourtown.com/
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I assure you fuckcrypt, DDay is not a 'bro'.
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earlchip: still mad about my tone
if this was about you, I could have said much more. how you've responded to my private messages has said a lot.
the actual point was that you really need a different way of handling these things. you cause more problems than you solve. so do something about it
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I assure you fuckcrypt, DDay is not a 'bro'.
I'm broses king of all bros so you are right sir.
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Dday is a dick I am a dick typing
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Dday is a dick I am a dick typing
I'm not hear to make everyone happy and I will not set out to do the imposable. I'm just trying to be real why be fake and try to be what others want you to be or say. Life is not a river that flows only one way, it's mixture and to reject that we all would be zombies, lifeless souls.
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Life is a river and rivers flow two ways, down and up. And you're the mississippi you backwards assed motherfucker.
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You should have more class dday. There are much better insults than "faggot" but I'm not the type to really get riled up about it anymore either. Its just stupid language people say inane ignorant shit everyday and the word "faggot" used to insult somone that isn't necessarily a homosexual isn't on the top of my list of shit to get irritated about.
If you decide to say it on here though immediately expect someone to call you out on it because regardless they just feel they need to make it known that thats a terrible thing to say.
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You should have more class dday. There are much better insults than "faggot" but I'm not the type to really get riled up about it anymore either. Its just stupid language people say inane ignorant shit everyday and the word "faggot" used to insult somone that isn't necessarily a homosexual isn't on the top of my list of shit to get irritated about.
If you decide to say it on here though immediately expect someone to call you out on it because regardless they just feel they need to make it known that thats a terrible thing to say.
did not say "fagot" I think I called them "Fags"but that's how I feel about the matter if there not gay and your just calling them that, it's really nothing to get really mad about it. If i said it to a gay man I would understand the outcries (BTW would never use it in such context.)
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For people who ignore the shit out of artistry: http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83254.0
make me some goddamn art for some goddamn money
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ugh i can't not reply to all this
did not say "fagot" I think I called them "Fags"but that's how I feel about the matter if there not gay and your just calling them that, it's really nothing to get really mad about it. If i said it to a gay man I would understand the outcries (BTW would never use it in such context.)
hi dday it's your pal vellfire and saying fag is never okay no matter who you say it to so cut that shit out it isn't cool. seriously stop trying to explain why it's okay because it isn't ever. don't tell people what they can and can't get mad about also. thanks.
There are much better insults than "faggot" but I'm not the type to really get riled up about it anymore either. Its just stupid language people say inane ignorant shit everyday and the word "faggot" used to insult somone that isn't necessarily a homosexual isn't on the top of my list of shit to get irritated about.
i'm glad you're telling dday off for this but at the same time of course it's not at the top of your list of things to get upset about because it doesn't affect you personally at all. that doesn't mean this isn't important and you shouldn't diminish the importance of this WHILE calling someone out for it, it's not very helpful to tell dday to cut it out and then say "yeah but it's not really a big deal" because it is a big deal whether it's a big deal to you or not.
~ * ~ G O I N G B A C K I N T O T H E A B Y S S N O W ~ * ~
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yeah, I don't want to press the issue but the thing about using insults that other people don't like to hear is that you have to suspend your own judgment and listen to theirs instead. you have to listen and empathize with the people who might potentially be insulted by it. when you listen to them, it becomes pretty clear that although it may have no meaning to you, it has meaning to them.
you might not mean anything hurtful by your words, and I'm sure that you don't, but this is one of those moments where you have to say "your judgment is better than mine".
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Just about every time I hear someone talking about how offensive it is to use the term "faggot" it reminds me of the one time I was helping my family gather materials for a wood-burning pile.
I ended up nearly cutting my sister's eye open when I accidentally hit her in the face with the faggot I was carrying. I was scared shitless thinking that I had permanently blinded her when it happened, but as it turned out she was bleeding profusely because I had hit her right below the eye instead. I'm glad it was my big sister, because if my arms were even an inch higher in relation to her face when it happened, she'd be wearing an eye-patch today.
So yes, every time I hear that specific term, I get personally offended because it recalls a very unfortunate negative incident in my own life that I want to move past, but simply cannot for as long as constant reminders are being casually banded about without any concern for whose feelings they may hurt.
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you know I like ya dday, just please just don't use that term. it'd be better if you didn't.
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Just about every time I hear someone talking about how offensive it is to use the term "faggot" it reminds me of the one time I was helping my family gather materials for a wood-burning pile.
I ended up nearly cutting my sister's eye open when I accidentally hit her in the face with the faggot I was carrying. I was scared shitless thinking that I had permanently blinded her when it happened, but as it turned out she was bleeding profusely because I had hit her right below the eye instead. I'm glad it was my big sister, because if my arms were even an inch higher in relation to her face when it happened, she'd be wearing an eye-patch today.
So yes, every time I hear that specific term, I get personally offended because it recalls a very unfortunate negative incident in my own life that I want to move past, but simply cannot for as long as constant reminders are being casually banded about without any concern for whose feelings they may hurt.
This is dumb as fuck and don't do this either. I don't even have words for how dumb you're being. You're comparing the plights of homosexuals with a dumb thing that happened to you because "heh, faggot meant a bundle of sticks...a long time ago...". You're fucking trivializing something insanely important right now. Shut the fuck up forever.
e: I just yelled at you more on irc but I am gonna add right here for everyone that this post is literally just a straight guy saying "faggot hurts ME too" which if you don't see why this is bs don't even talk to me.
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found some rhyming sleeveless frat boys in the dining hall today. this is an actual transcript of their conversation
"yo so bro, this chick just caught me starin' at her tits, so she covered them, so I was like yea I was lookin', an she was like yea I kno"
"haha I feel for ya bro"
over a minute of silence later
"haha that's so funny tho"
"yea I kno"
"she's not here anymore. she left."
"ung."
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Well you said on IRC that I honestly have no idea what it is like to be deeply and truly hurt by hate speech, probably because it looked like I made that post in order to assign myself some level of personal empathy with people who are hurt by a specific word.
If my post made that fact about myself so obviously apparent, maybe I made it just to admit in a roundabout way that I really do have no idea what it is like to be treated that way. (even if you don't view my intentions as that way, you cannot deny that was the impression you got immediately upon viewing my post)
It is likely impossible for you to interpret what I said even slightly in that way, so let me just ask you a straightforward question: Would it have been wrong if I just admitted flat out that I have absolutely no idea what it feels like to be directly subjected to language used exclusively for hate? I want to know if doing that much is okay, or if the only way to express that admission clearly without offending anyone is to simply never make mention of any of those types of words in any context whatsoever.
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It is likely impossible for you to interpret what I said even slightly in that way, so let me just ask you a straightforward question: Would it have been wrong if I just admitted flat out that I have absolutely no idea what it feels like to be directly subjected to language used exclusively for hate?
This would have been an excellent thing to do. What you did was the exact opposite, where you pretended or joked about knowing what it's like. Maybe you were making a statement about how you don't actually know, but that irony isn't really appreciated, sorry.
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I was both of those Bros. This is a fine land and hardy. The golden crops shall nurture and protect my people; caverns, dug beneath the clay, protect us from the rain.
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....................................................worker...................................
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An Elder Bro, upon partaking of a respectful crop offering, immediately entered a powerful fugue state. For two week, he roamed the deeper woods. Though we called, he did not answer. When he returned he held the Sacred Name, our blessing from the Bro Gods and the promise of what was to come.
______________________________________________
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| A B E R C R O M B I E & F I T C H |
| |
| < good deals ! |
| H |
| |
| |
| hat - 10g crest - 90g sneans - 999g |
______________________________________________
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| DIGGER BRO ?){]-< - apple - key |
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| 20g [10] WEED [2] MEAT [0] TIT |
______________________________________________
EVENT: ELDER BRO HAS ENTERED THE VILLAGE
BRO CHIEF BLOWS HIS EBON HORN
BRO CHIEF: B r o ,
w e s h o u l d t o t a l l y c h e c k o u t t h e s e c a v e s
t o d a y .
GRAIN BRO: S h u t u p b r o .
ELDER: T h e r e a r e m e g a t i t s i n t h e s e c a v e s
f o r t h o s e w i t h c o u r a g e t o s e e k .
GRAIN BRO: T h e r e a r e n o t i t s i n a c a v e .
BRO CHIEF: D u d e, c a v e t i t s .
We labored three days and three nights, dispatching Scouts into the cave. But what we found would haunt us forever...
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ahhaha my roguelike blood is boiling/ honestly curious what happened then...??
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Hello Vellfire. Wish you had come back under better circumstances.
I'm mildly worried I'm going to say something offensive, but its honestly why I don't use (or at least avoid mostly successfully) the insults Fag/Faggot:
I don't say those words only partially because of empathy. But mostly because I understand that others are irrational about being offended. I don't want to offend people, because I'm not a dick, but I still think in the back of my mind they are being dumb for being offended by such. I've been called fat (I am *shrugs*), Whitey/cracker (not generally considered a strongly offensive racial slur, but still, it's pretty bad when you are the only white dude in the room), lazy asshole (by my dad), etc.
Now I have been mildly offended by these insults, but only when I felt like it was a honest attack, and usually only the first time it's said by any particular person. I was offended that the person was trying to be a dick to me, though, not because of what those actual insults MEANT. If someone called be a largely weak insult, but honestly meant to attack me verbally, I'd be more offended rather than if I was just casually prodded but with a stronger or 'normally offensive' term or something by a friend.
EVEN WHEN I'VE BEEN OFFENDED however, I've shortly afterwards realized its illogical to be offended by those words. The words came from a dickhead (probably), thus there is no reason to take it to mean anything, I've lost nothing from disconnecting from that person.
If I was offended by being joked about in some of the ways I mentioned, I'd realize the person meant no harm to me and would easily get over it as well.
I understand not everyone can do this, which I guess is OK. I still think its illogical and dumb to be offended at all at pretty much anything. I know I've been offended on occasion but immediately dismiss it, BECAUSE I REALIZE I SHOULD. There is no good reason to get wound up with that sort of stuff.
I've probably used the words faggot like once that I can think of in my entire life in the context of a joke, and even then, it merely slipped out in a fit of surprise.
So basically I dance around the word to avoid offending people, but not because I think they are right to be offended, but because I just don't want to hurt them, does that make sense?
I hope you don't hate me. :/
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........................egg.....!....H.....................................V....stalagtite.......
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.stalagmite........................................................................................
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..........................................................kobold.....................................
BRO SCOUT: I t i s a n e g g .
BRO SCOUT [2]: I t i s n o t a t i t .
BRO SCOUT: I t i s r o u n d .
BRO SCOUT [2]: I t i s o v o i d .
BRO SCOUT: W e s h o u l d t a k e i t
w i t h u s.
BRO SCOUT [2]: H o l d u p,
b r o,
I ' m b e i n g t o t a l l y s a v a g e d b y
t h i s k o b o l d .
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BRO SCOUT: N o w a y .
Escape the cave!
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.freeroms.com/roms_screenshot2/nes_foton_-_the_ultimate_game_on_planet_earth_2.gif)
> left
> bro, what's with this kobold.
K o b o l d r i p s a n d t e a r s !
K o b o l d r i p s a n d t e a r s !
B r o i s f l a i l i n g !
K o b o l d r i p s a n d t e a r s !
B r o i s f l a i l i n g !
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.emuparadise.me/Nintendo%20Entertainment%20System/Snaps/Foton%20-%20The%20Ultimate%20Game%20on%20Planet%20Earth%20(J).png)
> there is a thing
> i think i shot the thing (is this a gun..?)
> bro, report.
Scout Bro [2] perished on Floor 837 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Kobold. He had zero tomes and zero potions. His final thought was of [guitars].
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.somethingawful.com/u/raptorred/foton/wallofshit.png)
> i should have gone right. now i'm dead and i don't care about anything. wait, this egg is hatching suddenly.
(http://mmii.info/_ign/37526.gif)
Scout Bro perished on Floor 621 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Stalagmite. He had zero tomes and [2] potions. His final thought was of [eggs].
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Ugh, I hate it when my post is at the end of a page. :/
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loling @ broguelike
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man i missed ya catas.. are you taking part in ludum dare this weekend?
are any of you? calling all game devs.. rise from your pits and lets make some fuckin games
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So basically I dance around the word to avoid offending people, but not because I think they are right to be offended, but because I just don't want to hurt them, does that make sense?
That's basically the crux of the matter Warped. Even if you don't understand why someone is offended by something, or can justify to yourself why they shouldn't be, the fact that they ARE and the act of offending them in this way is hurtful stops people who are able to empathise from deliberately offending others.
I mean this is all OMG GW TOKEN GAY GUY having a say (although I think there are a couple of others around - hey remember when GW was mostly run by the HOMOSEX CABALS?! Good times), but I do find the use of the word 'faggot' to be incredibly offensive. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the humour in it under certain situations, but even with humour it's still a pretty offensive term. Words are wind, and shouldn't hurt, but they actually do sometimes.
I can never understand what it's like for a black person to hear the 'N' word, just as the majority of people won't understand what it's like for a homosexual person to hear the word 'faggot' used. The best result is just to moderate language to avoid offence. This isn't all OMG THOUGHT POLICE 1984, but basic decency and empathy towards others.
Fair, we (gaypeeps) are a lot more tolerated in Western society nowadays, and the fight for equality is going really well, but that word is a reminder of some people's opinions about us even now. Co-opting it to mean 'idiot' or whatever doesn't actually remove that association - it's still a negative word commonly used to refer to homosexuals.
Like I'm not CRYING MY EYES UP or whatever because DDay used the word 'fag', but I'd like to think that upon being made aware about how offensive it is that he (and others) would reflect upon their need to use that word in a place where gay people might hear it, regardless of however they can justify their use of it.
Queer was similar, but that's been RECLAIMED by gay people. I describe my own sexuality as Queer, for example. However, if someone CALLED me a 'queer', it'd be significantly different. It's similar to the 'N' word in this context. However, Faggot is a word that gay people haven't sought to reclaim, as it's one of the most venomous terms a person can use in reference to us.
That and SODOMITE ho ho ho!
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PS: I didn't get the BIG PROMOTION ;_;.
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Haven't read Faust's post yet (also sorry about the promotion : ((( ) so I might be repeating things idk:
I don't say those words only partially because of empathy. But mostly because I understand that others are irrational about being offended. I don't want to offend people, because I'm not a dick, but I still think in the back of my mind they are being dumb for being offended by such. I've been called fat (I am *shrugs*), Whitey/cracker (not generally considered a strongly offensive racial slur, but still, it's pretty bad when you are the only white dude in the room), lazy asshole (by my dad), etc.
These aren't comparable at all, and I think that's part of the reason you don't understand. The offensiveness is part of it (though I think if you consider that they HURT people as oppose to OFFEND them you'll find a lot more empathy there), but you also have to consider that these slurs reinforce and encourage negative stereotypes towards already marginalized and oppressed groups. You also have to consider that they are heard ALL the time. Being called a faggot or a bitch once may not seem like a big deal, but you have to consider that people get called these things CONSTANTLY. If I had only been called bitch once in my life it wouldn't be a big deal, but when you get called bitch and slut and whore or faggot anytime someone doesn't like what you say or just doesn't like YOU, it adds up. I'm glad that you choose not to use them, but you really do need to understand why it's important not to. Our world, especially online, has an absurd lack of empathy. Stop thinking of them as irrationally offended people and start thinking of them as people who are genuinely hurt by your words.
e:
Queer was similar, but that's been RECLAIMED by gay people. I describe my own sexuality as Queer, for example. However, if someone CALLED me a 'queer', it'd be significantly different. It's similar to the 'N' word in this context. However, Faggot is a word that gay people haven't sought to reclaim, as it's one of the most venomous terms a person can use in reference to us.
This is a good point btw, but I want to say something just in case someone is thinking this because I've seen it happen several times (maybe not here so this could be a waste but I want to say it to be safe): if you are not part of the group the word is targeting, you do not get to reclaim or redefine it. There are a lot of white people who think they should say nigger or straight people who think they should say faggot a lot in order to "make it less powerful" or redefine it. That's not how it works. It's up to the group themselves to decide to do that and you need to be respectful of that group's decision either way. This comes up a LOT in conversations about "how come BLACK people can say the n-word and WE can't?".
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Scout Bro perished on Floor 621 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Stalagmite. He had zero tomes and [2] potions. His final thought was of [eggs].
rip
and thanks catamites for a good
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Vellfire, I want you to know that I think that you are a good person and I agree with most of what you say.
However, I think that you try to go after everyone that says stupid shit and this is a pretty unwinnable crusade, especially on the internet. Your attempt to do so makes you look like a very easily offended and irritable person. Also, I think that when people here are trying to address their point of view about it you often dismiss it and tell them they're wrong, even if they have decent points. I know you're idealistic and you want what's right, but I really think you should relax a bit.
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Vellfire, I want you to know that I think that you are a good person and I agree with most of what you say.
However, I think that you try to go after everyone that says stupid shit and this is a pretty unwinnable crusade, especially on the internet. Your attempt to do so makes you look like a very easily offended and irritable person. Also, I think that when people here are trying to address their point of view about it you often dismiss it and tell them they're wrong, even if they have decent points. I know you're idealistic and you want what's right, but I really think you should relax a bit.
How about this shit matters to me and I don't care what it makes people think of me? It's apparently not unwinnable since for example EDC sees what he did wrong now (we talked it out on IRC). I know I'm not going to convince literally everyone, but I've convinced a few people and that's enough for me to keep it up. It may not seem important to you, but it's important to me and I don't need people telling me to give it up or that I need to just "relax" (which is pretty dismissive dude).
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Relax was a poor choice of words on my part and I apologize. It just seems like every single post you've made as of late is just yelling at people and there are better ways of getting your point across than being abrasive towards everyone that thinks differently than you.
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I said it in my post to Warped but these things pile up. You get tired of being called bitch, faggot, etc. You also get tired of explaining to people why it's not okay. You eventually get sick of trying to calmly and nicely explain this when you've done it a million times and you just flat out tell people to cut it out or fuck off. My post to Warped wasn't angry at all. I don't know what you mean by "every post I've made of late" since I've not been posting until just now (and if you are referring to what happened that caused me to leave don't because it goes far deeper than you're aware of and you're not capable of telling me how I should have reacted to that). There are certain things that are going to make me frustrated and this is one of those things. It doesn't matter what tone I'm taking, I'm explaining my arguments (for EDC this was mostly done in IRC) and they're the same whether I do so angrily or not. Be being angry about an understandably irritating and emotional subject doesn't disqualify what I've said.
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ugh i can't not reply to all this
hi dday it's your pal vellfire and saying fag is never okay no matter who you say it to so cut that shit out it isn't cool. seriously stop trying to explain why it's okay because it isn't ever. don't tell people what they can and can't get mad about also. thanks.
i'm glad you're telling dday off for this but at the same time of course it's not at the top of your list of things to get upset about because it doesn't affect you personally at all. that doesn't mean this isn't important and you shouldn't diminish the importance of this WHILE calling someone out for it, it's not very helpful to tell dday to cut it out and then say "yeah but it's not really a big deal" because it is a big deal whether it's a big deal to you or not.
~ * ~ G O I N G B A C K I N T O T H E A B Y S S N O W ~ * ~
ugh i can't not reply to all this
hi dday it's your pal vellfire and saying fag is never okay no matter who you say it to so cut that shit out it isn't cool. seriously stop trying to explain why it's okay because it isn't ever. don't tell people what they can and can't get mad about also. thanks.
i'm glad you're telling dday off for this but at the same time of course it's not at the top of your list of things to get upset about because it doesn't affect you personally at all. that doesn't mean this isn't important and you shouldn't diminish the importance of this WHILE calling someone out for it, it's not very helpful to tell dday to cut it out and then say "yeah but it's not really a big deal" because it is a big deal whether it's a big deal to you or not.
~ * ~ G O I N G B A C K I N T O T H E A B Y S S N O W ~ * ~
Sorry it's not a big deal and to be honest I'm not telling them what they should or should not get mad about I'm just showing where I'm coming from. So to be honest I simple do not care about small issue that seem to be amplified by a certain way of thinking thanks DDay.
Also about that bitch thing Vellfire I know some girls that address each other as bitch/bitchs in a friendly manner.
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Sorry it not a big deal and to be honest I'm not telling them what they should or should not get mad about so to be honest I simple do not care thanks DDay.
Hi, it is a big deal and if we have to chat this out on IRC we will but I'm not giving up on you DDay you're too good of a person to be doing this bullshit that you're doing right now. Cut it out dude.
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Hi, it is a big deal and if we have to chat this out on IRC we will but I'm not giving up on you DDay you're too good of a person to be doing this bullshit that you're doing right now. Cut it out dude.
Kind of did bit of editing what I had to say but I"m sorry some point of views will not change. I understand Vellfrie and sympathies with you on somethings you say but something are bit extreme ways of thinking. Like the last part I said on last post things can be used in many ways like the word bitch doesn't need to be bad. It's all bout perspective.
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Kind of did bit of editing what I had to say but I"m sorry some point of views will not change. I understand Vellfrie and sympathies with somethings you say are bit extreme ways of thinking. Like the last part I said on last post things can be used in many ways like the word bitch doesn't need to be bad. It's all bout perspective.
DDay you're looking from YOUR perspective though. You're giving no thought to the people around you. You don't care how words like bitch and faggot affect other people. By the way, a word like bitch HAS occasionally been reappropriated by women but you're not a woman so you don't get to do that. There actually IS no way that you, DDay, can say bitch without it being pretty horrible. The problem is you, like most of us, have been raised in an environment that tells you that these things are okay to say. They aren't. Don't call people bitches and faggots DDay. That's not an extreme point of view, it's called being a kind person. I'm serious DDay, if you ever call me a bitch, even in jest, I don't think I can consider us friends anymore. It's really easy for you to not see a problem with these words because they aren't targeted at you, which is why you have to listen to the people they do target and find out that hey, they make me and others feel like absolute shit and you're being a huge asshole by using them and not caring. Do you really not have a problem using words that make me feel really gross? We're buds DDay, I'd like it to stay that way.
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However, I think that you try to go after everyone that says stupid shit and this is a pretty unwinnable crusade, especially on the internet. Your attempt to do so makes you look like a very easily offended and irritable person. Also, I think that when people here are trying to address their point of view about it you often dismiss it and tell them they're wrong, even if they have decent points. I know you're idealistic and you want what's right, but I really think you should relax a bit.
yeah, this is like saying "you're doing the right thing, but everybody hates being criticized, so think of your social standing a little bit".
frankly, criticism doesn't make you a bad person. it's not inherently a bad thing to criticize someone. I'd prefer it if instead of telling someone like vellfire to "relax", we instead say "yeah, I agree". that normalizes the critique and helps avoid discussions like this one we're having right now.
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Also about that bitch thing Vellfire I know some girls that address each other as bitch/bitchs in a friendly manner.
There are also black people who call each other "nigger", that doesn't mean you should do the same.
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There's also the fact that there are plenty of women who do misogynist things because we live in a misogynist as fuck world that encourages women to hate and dismiss themselves/each other in that way. That doesn't make it okay.
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Vellfire did not seem angry at all to me. Seemed perfectly calm. Hard to read that in the form of text though.
These aren't comparable at all, and I think that's part of the reason you don't understand. The offensiveness is part of it (though I think if you consider that they HURT people as oppose to OFFEND them you'll find a lot more empathy there), but you also have to consider that these slurs reinforce and encourage negative stereotypes towards already marginalized and oppressed groups. You also have to consider that they are heard ALL the time. Being called a faggot or a bitch once may not seem like a big deal, but you have to consider that people get called these things CONSTANTLY. If I had only been called bitch once in my life it wouldn't be a big deal, but when you get called bitch and slut and whore or faggot anytime someone doesn't like what you say or just doesn't like YOU, it adds up. I'm glad that you choose not to use them, but you really do need to understand why it's important not to. Our world, especially online, has an absurd lack of empathy. Stop thinking of them as irrationally offended people and start thinking of them as people who are genuinely hurt by your words.
I know they aren't comparable. But I can at least imagine the emotional damage caused by being verbally attacked as a minority group is merely the exponential equivalent of the same for a non-minority. I can imagine the same BUT MORE of what I felt would be harder to ignore/tolerate, but not impossible.
Being heard all the time though can have a multitude of effects, from being extremely demoralizing (Like what you are saying) or normalizing/taking the bite out of the words.
There is another issue when it comes to these words, people will always lower a neutral PC word into a negative in just using them in the right/wrong context.
An EXCELLENT EXAMPLE:
Idiot and moron, are words in that in the past, were used to merely describe people in various states of mental retardation. Now, because of its use to denote poor mental abilities, it eventually just became an insult. Merely the word 'Retarded' came into use, now it, like moron and idiot, are used mostly as an insult. In the 90's, as a kid I remember people pushing the the term 'special' to be a less offensive alternative. Guess what, now that very term is having THE VERY SAME THING happen to it. If someone says you are 'Special' they are saying you are stupid. They are insulting you. There is nothing one can truly do to avoid the inherent meaning of words to describe things society things makes one lesser. What matters is THE INTENT to be offensive. Not the word. Making up newer words to replace a 'defiled' word is just giving the people that are being offensive new ammunition.
OR:
We talk about fag and faggot, but the words gay, queer, homo, or homosexual is just as offensive in the same context. Meaning it just seems like people are picking random words of the bunch to be permanently off limits to even the non-prejudiced non-dickery context. Saying the word 'faggot' in the context of a joke is equal to using 'homosexual' in the same joke, so why is faggot worse? It comes off as a pointless distinction.
If people never used the word 'bitch' to insult you for the things commonly associated with the word 'bitch' they'd just use another word.
Dictionary definition of the slang use towards a woman:
"a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, especially a woman. "
Imagine the same meaning applied to ANY collection of letter/sounds/phonetics. Its clear what matters in this context is the intent or meaning. And people will always have that intent at some point, it is basically inescapable. The word 'Bitch' is only sharpened by making it taboo. Not that making it not 'taboo' would help, because then people would scrounge for a new word.
This is a good point btw, but I want to say something just in case someone is thinking this because I've seen it happen several times (maybe not here so this could be a waste but I want to say it to be safe): if you are not part of the group the word is targeting, you do not get to reclaim or redefine it. There are a lot of white people who think they should say nigger or straight people who think they should say faggot a lot in order to "make it less powerful" or redefine it. That's not how it works. It's up to the group themselves to decide to do that and you need to be respectful of that group's decision either way. This comes up a LOT in conversations about "how come BLACK people can say the n-word and WE can't?".
People hate being excluded. They REALLY HATE IT. They also don't like being told what to do/say (unless conditioned) but that's not as important as "We are allowed to do this because we are in <exclusive group> that is impossible for you enter, fuck off."
I'm not saying that's a good reason (or the only reason), but its one of the stronger ones.
Another issue that people commonly tell me that they, by default, don't respect anyone, until they PROVE worthy of their respect. Thus they feel no reason to respect individuals or groups alike. With respect out of the way, the only justification in their mind that they should not say those things (faggot/nigger) when they are angry at someone/laughing at someone IN OR OUT of the group the word is that its just 'incorrect' to say in polite society. For many, being impolite feels about as bad as pirating music.
Most people, also don't care if they are part of polite society. If anything, they think polite society is one of their few remaining things to rebel against. And everyone wants to be a rebel.
I'm going to be honest about myself as well:
-I, by default, respect people, rather than the other way around. (one point for me being a nice person) You can however earn my disrespect/lose respect.
-I, however, believe that if people don't, by default, respect others that is their prerogative.
-I also kind of admire the rebel type.
-I bitterly dislike exclusion/being excluded/other people being excluded from my group. (Reminds me of how much I hate the Telvanni in Morrowind, sure you can join them, but their entire purpose is to kick all the other races out of Morrowind because they think they have the only right to be there)
People who aren't the down trodden (white, straight, male) think they want to be the down trodden because then they get a cause to fight for. I think that might be a big reason why the common white/male nerd wants to live in a dystopia/apocalypse so they can fulfill the need/urge to FIGHT THE OPPRESSORS/MAJOR THREAT (which in real life no longer exist for them).
Reminds me of Fight Club. "We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives."
I'm kind of going on a tangent now. But I still think I sort of made a point. Don't know exactly what it is though.
Also, I pretty sure I've missed a point that I wanted to make while writing this so if I remember it I may double post.
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There are also black people who call each other "nigger", that doesn't mean you should do the same.
I'm just saying there is ways they are not bad Also I would never call you one... vellfire I just making a point as it stands at the moment are ways of think are on two different levels. I'm looking at it from many prospective but to be honest I can't sympathies from extremist prospective. before I said the word fags. I asked myself if I was gay and I used to describe a team way of playing would they care and it came back to me as no they will not. the only two prospective I could see someone getting mad are if I was a Pittsburgh fan/team member or an Extremist. One I have bit sympathy for and the other one is just annoyed at anything and I could never please so I'm not going to try.
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http://www.redkaraoke.com/profile/allofthetrash/recordings/137571 (http://www.redkaraoke.com/profile/allofthetrash/recordings/137571)
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We talk about fag and faggot, but the words gay, queer, homo, or homosexual is just as offensive in the same context. Meaning it just seems like people are picking random words of the bunch to be permanently off limits to even the non-prejudiced non-dickery context. Saying the word 'faggot' in the context of a joke is equal to using 'homosexual' in the same joke, so why is faggot worse? It comes off as a pointless distinction.
yeah, it's a pointless distinction if you don't comprehend the effect of a strongly discriminating word. which you'd be forgiven for not understanding if you're not part of an oppressed demographic, but it's important to know that these words really aren't just the same.
"homosexual" is a very neutral word. you can say it in a neutral fashion or in a negative fashion (e.g. those goddamn disgusting homosexuals) but the word "faggot" is not neutral and has a solely negative implication. you literally cannot say "faggot" in a positive fashion with a straight face without being extremely misguided about its value.
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I'm just saying there is ways they are not bad Also I would never call you one...
answer me this: would you ever call a black person a nigger? ever? under any circumstance? even as a joke?
obviously you wouldn't, so why not do the same for "faggot"?
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I know they aren't comparable. But I can at least imagine the emotional damage caused by being verbally attacked as a minority group is merely the exponential equivalent of the same for a non-minority. I can imagine the same BUT MORE of what I felt would be harder to ignore/tolerate, but not impossible.
No, it is impossible. It's not just having your feelings hurt, it's just a reaffirmation of the way society as a whole treats you. If you're constantly surrounded by sexism or homophobia, words like bitch and faggot are icing on the cake. The words cannot be separated from the attitudes in society. I can't say that because I've had strep throat I know what having throat cancer is like, I can't even begin to imagine it.
Being heard all the time though can have a multitude of effects, from being extremely demoralizing (Like what you are saying) or normalizing/taking the bite out of the words.
Idiot and moron, are words in that in the past, were used to merely describe people in various states of mental retardation. Now, because of its use to denote poor mental abilities, it eventually just became an insult.
etc. etc.
That's great. The words we're talking about right now aren't like that though. What is happening right now is these words are hate speech and people are applying that hate speech into insults towards people outside of the original group. So, someone starts calling people fags casually. The implication is still "you are like a homosexual, and that is bad and you should feel bad about it." If this kept happening long enough, sure, it may lose its original connotation with homosexuality. But, and this is where your argument doesn't really work, for it to get to that point you have to keep using the word like that. In the meantime, you're going to be hurting a lot of people. Why should LGBT people have to put up with a bunch of straight guys calling each other fags in online games and feel miserable about it just because of some hypothetical future where it'll just be a general insult (because clearly we need more insults in our world)? Why isn't it easier to just QUIT USING IT?
What matters is THE INTENT to be offensive. Not the word. Making up newer words to replace a 'defiled' word is just giving the people that are being offensive new ammunition.
Intent does matter, but it isn't magic. If you unintentionally hurt (again, I don't think offend properly covers it) someone with your speech, if your intent is good you'll apologize. You don't start telling the person how they shouldn't be offended.
We talk about fag and faggot, but the words gay, queer, homo, or homosexual is just as offensive in the same context. Meaning it just seems like people are picking random words of the bunch to be permanently off limits to even the non-prejudiced non-dickery context. Saying the word 'faggot' in the context of a joke is equal to using 'homosexual' in the same joke, so why is faggot worse? It comes off as a pointless distinction.
Those words have been reclaimed BY THE LGBT COMMUNITY. Not by straight people calling each other fags on message boards. Context absolutely does matter, and calling someone queer in the sense of "this person identifies as queer" is perfectly fine even if you're straight. Calling someone queer as an insult isn't. There isn't really a context (other than a post like mine where I'm discussing the word as a word) where faggot is okay. Faggot hasn't been reclaimed in a positive way by the LGBT community. That's the difference, and it's not your job as a (presumably) straight person to change that. You don't get to make that choice. Your job is to not hurt marginalized people.
If people never used the word 'bitch' to insult you for the things commonly associated with the word 'bitch' they'd just use another word.
And this wouldn't be okay either. The reason I'm putting so much effort into this topic instead of just saying "hey don't say faggot" is this--getting rid of words doesn't solve the problem. It does keep people from being hurt by them in the process, so that's good, but the reason I'm typing so much is that I want you to understand WHY you shouldn't say them. When you start understanding this, it changes your attitude and your perception on the subject. If enough people have their attitudes changed, there won't be a NEED for a mean word to call women or homosexuals. I'm not JUST saying "don't say these words", I'm trying to explain WHY so that you won't even feel a need to.
People hate being excluded. They REALLY HATE IT. They also don't like being told what to do/say (unless conditioned) but that's not as important as "We are allowed to do this because we are in <exclusive group> that is impossible for you enter, fuck off."
-I bitterly dislike exclusion/being excluded/other people being excluded from my group.
I really don't get where you're going with this. Gay people can't make you gay. Black people can't make you black. Women can't make you a woman. There is NO WAY for you to not be excluded by these groups. Even if I could make you a woman right now, you weren't raised as a woman. You have no idea what it's like to grow up in a misogynistic society. You don't have the background and these experiences. For someone who thinks people being "offended" are being irrational, you sure are being a huge mess of irrational right now. The trick is just to LISTEN to these groups. Let LGBT people and black people and women tell you about their experiences. You'll get a much better understanding of why these words hurt and why it's important for you to quit using them.
People who aren't the down trodden (white, straight, male) think they want to be the down trodden because then they get a cause to fight for. I think that might be a big reason why the common white/male nerd wants to live in a dystopia/apocalypse so they can fulfill the need/urge to FIGHT THE OPPRESSORS/MAJOR THREAT (which in real life no longer exist for them).
I agree that this is the case. This is one huge reason why straight white guys like to defend hate speech, by the way. By defending pretty indefensible words, they get minority groups (and those who defend them) to tell them to cut it out and then they get to play the victim despite living in a world that caters to them and puts them on top all the time. The pure FACT that a straight non-poor white cis man is on top of the food chain is why they cannot try to redefine them. You think "hey, if we keep saying this word it'll lose its power!" The thing is, you have to HAVE power to decide you can do that. Because you're part of the privileged group, you by default think you get to make these decisions. If you really care about this sort of thing, that's why you put the power in the hands of the minority groups themselves. Let women decide what to do with the word bitch, let LGBT people decide what to do with faggot. Don't dismiss their concerns and their feelings or tell them what we really SHOULD be doing with them. I know you hate being excluded, but it's not your fight. It's not your decision. It can never be. I'm sorry you weren't born as a poor black trans woman disabled lesbian but you weren't.
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before I said the word fags. I asked myself if I was gay and I used to describe a team way of playing would they care and it came back to me as no they will not.
DDay you aren't gay. That's the thing. You're not gay and you have no idea how it would affect you if you were because you AREN'T. You don't have any clue what being gay is like. You aren't qualified to make this sort of judgement. So why don't you listen to someone who IS gay (say, Faust) and get a better idea of how you'd feel. Surprise! You'd feel pretty rotten! DDay, you're a good guy, why in the world would you say something that hurts people? You're being told right here that it's hurtful, so just don't do it. There is no reason to hurt people on purpose.
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answer me this: would you ever call a black person a nigger? ever? under any circumstance? even as a joke?
obviously you wouldn't, so why not do the same for "faggot"?
I did not say "fagot" I said "fags". "Faggot" is aimed at a individual and mine was at a team and the word "faggot" is more hateful in my option then the word fags. Since I think when you aim at an individual it become more personal and become more meaningful to the recipient. BTW dada I did not call a group of gay fags I called a hockey team. clearly two different things.
Your still think on the extremist level most would not care.
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I did not say "fagot" I said "fags". "Faggot" is aimed at a individual and mine was at a team and the word "faggot" is more hateful in my option then the word fags. Since I think when you aim at an individual it become more personal and become more meaningful to the recipient. BTW dada I did not call a group of gay fags I called a hockey team. clearly two different things.
DDay fags is just as bad. The argument still stands. Also, your opinion honestly doesn't matter in this conversation. What matters are the opinions of the people you're hurting with your speech. You do know you're actually HURTING people by saying this, don't you? It doesn't matter if you're talking about gay people or not, you're hurting them either way. You aren't the kind of guy who would knowingly hurt people I don't think, which is why I think you just need to apologize and not hurt anyone anymore.
If you need to call someone something, call them jerks. Call them losers. Call them buttholes. You can do that without hurting people that did nothing wrong.
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DDay fags is just as bad. The argument still stands. Also, your opinion honestly doesn't matter in this conversation. What matters are the opinions of the people you're hurting with your speech. You do know you're actually HURTING people by saying this, don't you? It doesn't matter if you're talking about gay people or not, you're hurting them either way. You aren't the kind of guy who would knowingly hurt people I don't think, which is why I think you just need to apologize and not hurt anyone anymore.
Opinions do matter but your right I'm sorry Pittsburgh fans :P
Edit: and team members.
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i'm glad you're telling dday off for this but at the same time of course it's not at the top of your list of things to get upset about because it doesn't affect you personally at all.
no, because the top of my list entails real TERRIBLE people who are actually bigots. Those take priority and if I sat here preaching to DDay who isn't the sharpest screwdriver why he shouldn't say the word fag I am pretty much wasting my time and sounding like a pessemistic asswipe. Which is why alot of people that do that shit (harp on miniscule ignorant shit like that) end up getting ignored in the long run.
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Except DDay seems to have changed his mind. EDC did too. Warped might also. "Minuscule ignorant shit" is representative of major viewpoint problems (i.e. the "real" bigotry you're talking about). Most of it comes out of pure ignorance. I can't convince a KKK member to like black people. That's beyond my capabilities. I CAN explain to someone why spewing hate speech is harmful, which can get them to look at the things they do that hurt minority groups in general. It DOES matter, no matter how insignificant it looks to you. It's a small change, but I'm not capable of fixing the large problems in the world by myself. I can, however, do the small things you don't seem to think are important. They're important to me because they affect me on a day to day basis. So do the big things, but until I can find a way to fix those all on my lonesome I can only focus on the change I'm capable of and contribute to larger group efforts whenever possible. Don't discourage small change or else large change will never ever happen.
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My point is you probably won't change either. The bigot is hateful and thats something an outsider can't change and the dumbass misusing language is a dumbass misusing language. Language is misused everyday in so many differenting offensive ways.
I go by intent if I'm not willing to walk up to a moron in real life tossing the word fag in a non-direct manner towards homosexuals I won't do it on the internet. That is called hypocracy and I can bet none of you do that.
Go to a highschool or college and do that for a day and see what happens. Its just not worth it.
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Your efforts should be focused on things that you can actually affect. Maybe that's a small debate with someone based on the use of a word (which really is more than just that one word—if people realize that words can hurt people, it probably illuminates them to not an insignificant degree and opens their minds to the feelings of others). Or maybe that's something bigger than that.
I mean, this sort of reminds me of anarchist forums where people dream of "ending the state". That's nice and well, but you're living in a seminar on Mars if that's what you're concerned with. There's an extremely long path from A to Z that you need to follow before you can actually begin talking about such a thing, and it's step A that you need to be focused on, not step Z.
It's the same with misogyny, racism, et cetera. Some people (like the KKK) are better off being marginalized, because we're way past that first step already and it serves no purpose to return to an earlier stage in the debate. Maybe you can help things forward just a little by having one discussion with one person and opening their mind.
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Yes I think dada gets my point
well no not really.
Publically marginallizing the bigot does more good and teaching then berating misuse of language. And too many people misuse language for me to put forth the effort to berate them.
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Nobody's asking you personally to take up the battle of ending this sort of language. Even I can't do it every single time I see it. But I do it as often as I can, and there is literally no reason for you to try to convince me not to do this. I'm not asking YOU to, I'm telling you not to tell me that I need to stop or that it's a waste of time. You're the one who's being counterproductive when you do this.
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Publically marginallizing the bigot does more good and teaching then berating misuse of language. And too many people misuse language for me to put forth the effort to berate them.
There's a difference between actual hateful people, like KKK members, and people who use a word like "faggot" loosely because they're unaware (or uncaring) of the potential harm the word has. There are plenty of people who don't actually have anything against gay people but still use offensive language because they just don't know better and have been conditioned to think it's an acceptable word to use. Those people could use a reasoned reply asking them to be more considerate. But the aforementioned KKK members can't.
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Also it's hard to tell strangers what not to say. You should take up the responsibility of doing this for your own friends and family because they're susceptible to your arguments. But a stranger isn't. The "go to a high school and try it" argument is really beside the point. (And in some cases you might end up in legitimate danger for doing so.)
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no, because the top of my list entails real TERRIBLE people who are actually bigots. Those take priority and if I sat here preaching to DDay who isn't the sharpest screwdriver why he shouldn't say the word fag I am pretty much wasting my time and sounding like a pessemistic asswipe. Which is why alot of people that do that shit (harp on miniscule ignorant shit like that) end up getting ignored in the long run.
I still disagree with you on the subject but I do not mean it as hateful it was my way to show my disapproval on the way they play and they still should be ashamed of there self's.
Also I'm Sharper then you think. Vellfire it's just your way of thinking is extreme as your trying to think about everyone even the extremist views and by doing so you have became one yourself as I view extremist as minority that can extended to any type of group age or sex but are almost like minority of minority there like lone wolfs running around.
Most extremist had a bad personnel experience with a certain subject and will be mad about it no matter what but you vellfire your true rare and unique case as you try to think for everyone other then the free thinkers.
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I still disagree with you on the subject but I do not mean it as hateful it was my way to show my disapproval on the way they play and they still should be ashamed of there self's.
Also I'm Sharper then you think vellfire it's just your way of thinking is extreme as your trying to think about everyone even the extremist views and by doing so you have became one yourself as I view extremist as minority that can extended to any type of group age or sex but are almost like minority of minority there like lone wolfs running around.
Most extremist had a bad personnel experience with a certain subject and will be mad about it no matter what but you vellfire your true rare and unique case as you try to think for everyone other then the free thinkers.
yea tots i hate minoritys
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yea tots i hate minoritys
Extremist are really just a hand full out there compared to the entire race of humans and to fully think about them maybe the nice way of thinking till look below the surface there views tainted and built up hate for a certain subject all you encouraging there hate and that they should be mad about anything and that I disagree with.
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I'm not being an extremist at all DDay, I don't know why you think that. It's not that extreme to expect people that I know are good people (like you DDay) to be respectful of other people. Think about what you said--you wanted to tell some people that they needed to be ashamed of themselves. So you called them fags. You're literally saying that being a fag is the same as being ashamed of yourself. How do you think that makes a gay person feel? I'm not BEING EXTREME I'm asking you to consider other people's feelings because you're a better person than that.
e: Also before you call me an extremist, consider that the majority of people are PRETTY HUGE ASSHOLES. If being an extremist (by which I think you mean a minority voice) means going against the huge amount of homophobia and sexism and what have you in the mainstream, I'm pretty happy to be in that category.
DDay, you're a good guy. BE NICE.
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DDay, you're claiming it isn't a big deal, but since when do you get to decide that?
I like you a lot dude, but in actuality your stance that it isn't a 'big deal' is quite offensive in itself. So I should be free to use the 'N' word, or go up to old women in the street and say "Hello old cunt!" then claim that it's 'no big deal'?
It's a big deal to the people who're offended by the words. Just because it isn't to you does not mean it isn't a big deal to others.
Also:
I understand Vellfrie and sympathies with you on somethings you say but something are bit extreme ways of thinking.
Vellfire isn't being extreme - she's being entirely the opposite. It isn't 'extreme' to combat prejudice OR to defend the rights of minorities.
I'd posit that being 'extreme' would be using homophobic or racial epithets and claiming that it's no big deal dude. That's way more extreme than anything Vell has said.
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DDay, you've been asked nicely by several people to not continue using slurs even as jokes. Why not respect their feelings and accept that? Why do you WANT to hurt people with your words? I don't think you DO want to because you seem to be saying as much, but the fact is you are. You have the opportunity to NOT hurt people, and all it takes is to stop using hateful words. You're more than capable of that.
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I'm not being an extremist at all DDay, I don't know why you think that. It's not that extreme to expect people that I know are good people (like you DDay) to be respectful of other people. Think about what you said--you wanted to tell some people that they needed to be ashamed of themselves. So you called them fags. You're literally saying that being a fag is the same as being ashamed of yourself. How do you think that makes a gay person feel? I'm not BEING EXTREME I'm asking you to consider other people's feelings because you're a better person than that.
e: Also before you call me an extremist, consider that the majority of people are PRETTY HUGE ASSHOLES. If being an extremist (by which I think you mean a minority voice) means going against the huge amount of homophobia and sexism and what have you in the mainstream, I'm pretty happy to be in that category.
DDay, you're a good guy. BE NICE.
Did you think about how this hurt me vellfire to be told you can't be who you are because your line of thinking. Humen gave words meaning but still every one associates them with the hateful parts. I'm not saying they gays need to be ashamed of there self. my option is fag doesn't need to be in any category and doesn't need to refer to gays at all.
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Did you think about how this hurt me vellfire to be told you can't be who you are because your line of thinking. Humen gave words meaning but still every one associates them with the hateful parts. I'm not saying they gays need to be ashamed of there self. my option is fag doesn't need to be in any category and doesn't need to refer to gays at all.
It does refer to gay people though DDay. You don't get to decide what words mean. If at some point in the future it refers to something else then that's one thing, but right now it refers to gay people and you need to understand that. If what I've told you has made you feel bad, then you're starting to get a glimpse at what you're doing every time you call someone a fag, and it's all the more reason to stop doing it.
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"homosexual" is a very neutral word. you can say it in a neutral fashion or in a negative fashion (e.g. those goddamn disgusting homosexuals) but the word "faggot" is not neutral and has a solely negative implication. you literally cannot say "faggot" in a positive fashion with a straight face without being extremely misguided about its value.
This is entirely true, but what I was trying to say: That faggot being only negative bad seems arbitrary. but I guess being arbitrary is human nature. And I suppose its a moot point.
I'm sorry you weren't born as a poor black trans woman disabled lesbian but you weren't.
Not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying I want to BE a minority (which isn't controllable). My problem is that, in the case discussion of minority issues, bitterness arises when one is excluded from a controllable thing. Like saying a word or join a discussion group/topic related to it. (I distinctly remember in fact a conversation had here on SW where it was said that non-minorities don't have anything worthwhile at all to say on the topic of a minority's hardships, and should be allowed to participate, this comes off as completely untrue.) Having some sort of controlled differences between groups of people reinforces stereotypes and destroys unity among the human race.
If I encountered a poor black trans woman disabled lesbian and the topic of all her troubles came up and she refused to hear my perspective, I'd tell her like-wise. A discussion is a 2-way street, and most people don't like being lectured. If I'm listening to you, you damn well better listen to me, and vice versa. I'm not saying that the majority should get to outright make the decisions for a minority, but I do think a person or persons from a majority group should be heard if they wish to participate in the process. Hell, its not like all the people in a minority group all think the same thing anyway. You get different viewpoints with or with out people from the majorities.
To DDay:
Yeah you pretty much should stop with that. You aren't a percent as bad as mince was, but you should still try and stop. I imagine that might be asking a lot but the effect would be overall beneficial.
to Farren:
I believe trying to SHAME someone for being this way (or any way) is the worst possible thing you could do because you aren't going to convert anyone that way, or if you do, its obvious the person you converted doesn't think much of them self. And sometimes its seems like that is the avenue people here go for. I know you marginalize terrible beliefs (maybe, or maybe you make them more noticeable) but it still makes it out like its some sort of verbal/idea war rather than just trying to help things.
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My problem is that, in the case discussion of minority issues, bitterness arises when one is excluded from a controllable thing. Like saying a word or join a discussion group/topic related to it. (I distinctly remember in fact a conversation had here on SW where it was said that non-minorities don't have anything worthwhile at all to say on the topic of a minority's hardships, and should be allowed to participate, this comes off as completely untrue.) Having some sort of controlled differences between groups of people reinforces stereotypes and destroys unity among the human race.
I'm not sure what discussion you're referring to, but you might be thinking of safe spaces, or at least a similar idea. The reason that in these conversations marginalized people get to speak whereas the majority are told to stay quiet is because marginalized people don't GET to speak most of the time. Women and homosexuals and racial minorities will often silence themselves in order to keep from drawing any ire from the majority. That's the whole majority/minority dynamic. The reason the privileged group (such as straight people or men or white people) need to stay quiet is to give the minority group an actual chance to say what's on their mind. The privileged group gets to say their side of it EVERY DAY, their side is the default (hence, privilege). I know this offends you but you need to consider the fact that minority groups don't usually get a chance to speak freely. It's not any sort of rudeness or lack of consideration against you, it's just about giving them a chance. The privileged group doesn't always NEED to add their input, their input is already injected by society because they're the majority.
If I encountered a poor black trans woman disabled lesbian and the topic of all her troubles came up and she refused to hear my perspective, I'd tell her like-wise.
This is pretty much what I just said, but it bears repeating--she doesn't get to give her view in everyday society. Her view isn't represented in the media and it is isn't represented in mainstream culture. Yours typically is. This is why you need to LISTEN to what minority groups tell you, because you don't normally hear their side ever. They hear your side every day. You're exerting your privilege as the majority by insisting they are required to hear your side too. Just try listening to them, I can't emphasize this enough.
I think you do care about what minority groups have to say, but I also think that you are too concerned about making sure the majority viewpoint is heard. The majority viewpoint is already heard and understood. This is all about giving the minority a chance to speak up WITHOUT having the majority viewpoint overshadow theirs like every other day of their life. To put this a bit more harshly, it's not all about you.
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It does refer to gay people though DDay. You don't get to decide what words mean. If at some point in the future it refers to something else then that's one thing, but right now it refers to gay people and you need to understand that. If what I've told you has made you feel bad, then you're starting to get a glimpse at what you're doing every time you call someone a fag, and it's all the more reason to stop doing it.
I don't feel bad but Feel hate toward me and the word I pick I view words on a low on a scale and I give action higher wight.To use the word to a person that is gay is true hate and is normally followed up with constant harassment. I used the word once not really to hurt anyone and Still don't care how the world perceives the word fag. As long as I know I didn't mean it as it is perceived.
I got a game to watch.
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I don't feel bad but Feel hate toward me and the word I pick I view words on a low on a scale and I give action higher wight.To use the word to a person that is gay is true hate and is normally followed up with constant harassment. I used the word once not really to hurt anyone and Still don't care how the world perceives the word fag. As long as I know I didn't mean it as it is perceived.
Your words have effects beyond your intentions, DDay. No matter what you meant, you still hurt people in this very thread. You know, your buddies? I don't understand why you keep insisting on saying you did the right thing. How was hurting us the right thing? How can you feel comfortable that you did right when you're saying things that hurt people you like? The better thing to do is understand why you hurt people and apologize for it and not do it again, instead of to continue being hurtful.
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Your words have effects beyond your intentions, DDay. No matter what you meant, you still hurt people in this very thread. You know, your buddies? I don't understand why you keep insisting on saying you did the right thing. How was hurting us the right thing? How can you feel comfortable that you did right when you're saying things that hurt people you like? The better thing to do is understand why you hurt people and apologize for it and not do it again, instead of to continue being hurtful.
I'm not saying it right or wrong it's almost like most wars there is no good or evil just two opposing options.
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I guess this is the main question--are you going to keep calling people fags? Because if you are going to do this KNOWING that it hurts people, I would say that's a pretty awful thing to do.
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DDay, as Faust said, while the word may not mean much to you, it wounds some of us, like me and Faust and possibly Swordfish, very deeply, and I for one would appreciate it if you'd try to avoid hurting my feelings. Listen, I'm not attempting to tell you not to be yourself, but asking for respect. Being true to yourself is not incompatible with being respectful of others- there are many sides to each person. Please, I appeal to you to show your respectful side when it comes to this matter. Thanks.
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I guess this is the main question--are you going to keep calling people fags? Because if you are going to do this KNOWING that it hurts people, I would say that's a pretty awful thing to do.
I still don't think it hurts the main group your trying to push out to me. Without getting to complex On the forum no Because I would not try to hurt Faust. If I would tell you my full resolve you would still see me as awful.
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I still don't think it hurts the main group your trying to push out to me. Without getting to complex On the forum no Because I would not try to hurt Faust. If I would tell you my full resolve you would still I was awful.
DDay I don't think you're awful. I think what you're DOING when you say fags then try to defend it is awful. You're not an awful guy, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to ask you to stop doing something terrible. The fact that you're a good guy doing a bad thing is pretty upsetting, and it'd be better if you did something more in line with your character.
Also, how many gay people have to tell you it's hurtful before you realize it is?
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http://youtu.be/gzUtpRoQDdU
check out my music video.
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DDay I don't think you're awful. I think what you're DOING when you say fags then try to defend it is awful. You're not an awful guy, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to ask you to stop doing something terrible. The fact that you're a good guy doing a bad thing is pretty upsetting, and it'd be better if you did something more in line with your character.
Also, how many gay people have to tell you it's hurtful before you realize it is?
Still don't think it is in a whole but if it offended them I will not say it on the forum. Still disagree with there line thinking I'm going to be quite open about it as my opinion has not changed in whole. (just to clarify it's about the use of the word.)
But I will respect the wish of others.
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Still don't think it is in a whole but if it offended them I will not say it on the forum. Still disagree with there line thinking I'm going to be quite open about it.
There's not really anything to disagree with. They're part of groups that have been oppressed by society their whole lives. You're just adding onto that pain for no real reason since you can easily use other words (like I said, jerk is particularly good). You shouldn't use it outside the forum either because they people here aren't the only gay people in the world, and you don't know who is or isn't gay. It's just a bad idea to use it in general, there is no safe or good way to use it. Please, just use a different word, that's really not asking that much.
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There's not really anything to disagree with. They're part of groups that have been oppressed by society their whole lives. You're just adding onto that pain for no real reason since you can easily use other words (like I said, jerk is particularly good). You shouldn't use it outside the forum either because they people here aren't the only gay people in the world, and you don't know who is or isn't gay. It's just a bad idea to use it in general, there is no safe or good way to use it. Please, just use a different word, that's really not asking that much.
I could just agree with you and end all of this but I'm tired of being that guy that say "yha yha your right" sorry but that is my resolve.
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So you're not going to stop spewing hate speech because you're afraid of being wrong? That's horrible.
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admitting you're wrong is the first step to being right
only YOU can prevent hate speech
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I was looking for something else on my twitter and found this from earlier this morning:
"It's not an extreme opinion that if you hurt someone, especially unintentionally, that you apologize and learn/grown."
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So you're not going to stop spewing hate speech because you're afraid of being wrong? That's horrible.
I never did any hate speech and will never do so your trying to make it out that way and it's simply not true. I simply don't want to lie to you and say your right and still use it in everyday life. So what I'm saying I don't want to lie to you or anyone.
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Vell, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. (Frankly I was more upset at Fuckcrypt for starting it- I'd read DDay's response as actually mocking him for what he'd said.) This is starting to turn into an unwinnable argument. Browbeating him isn't gonna help. Let's just make certain that the next time he or anyone says something that offends us we clearly express our displeasure and continue to do so each time. The repetition should start to take effect after a while. And I'm not asking for an apology right now, you two. All I ask is that the next time you reach for a word you pause for a moment and consider its effect on those around you before proceeding. That's all. Stop and think.
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I'm not sure what discussion you're referring to, but you might be thinking of safe spaces, or at least a similar idea. The reason that in these conversations marginalized people get to speak whereas the majority are told to stay quiet is because marginalized people don't GET to speak most of the time. Women and homosexuals and racial minorities will often silence themselves in order to keep from drawing any ire from the majority. That's the whole majority/minority dynamic. The reason the privileged group (such as straight people or men or white people) need to stay quiet is to give the minority group an actual chance to say what's on their mind. The privileged group gets to say their side of it EVERY DAY, their side is the default (hence, privilege). I know this offends you but you need to consider the fact that minority groups don't usually get a chance to speak freely. It's not any sort of rudeness or lack of consideration against you, it's just about giving them a chance. The privileged group doesn't always NEED to add their input, their input is already injected by society because they're the majority.
This is pretty much what I just said, but it bears repeating--she doesn't get to give her view in everyday society. Her view isn't represented in the media and it is isn't represented in mainstream culture. Yours typically is. This is why you need to LISTEN to what minority groups tell you, because you don't normally hear their side ever. They hear your side every day. You're exerting your privilege as the majority by insisting they are required to hear your side too. Just try listening to them, I can't emphasize this enough.
I think you do care about what minority groups have to say, but I also think that you are too concerned about making sure the majority viewpoint is heard. The majority viewpoint is already heard and understood. This is all about giving the minority a chance to speak up WITHOUT having the majority viewpoint overshadow theirs like every other day of their life. To put this a bit more harshly, it's not all about you.
Maybe I should clarify further, When I refer to people as part of a minority or majority. I kind mean individuals within that group. When I meet someone that's better off and has more influence on the world than I do, and I have a discussion with them on a person to person (or even a small discussion group), I'll still let them speak. Because while they might be part of a powerful group that regularly speaks their mind but I don't think of them that way, I think of them as an individual. I suppose in a odd perspective that everyone is vaguely a minority in the sense that they are the only person that is... themselves. ugh I lack the graceful words to describe this but I imagine you know what I mean.
The majority and minority are both a group of individuals. They are not hiveminds where one hivemind has more strength than the other and is actively trying to bully the smaller one. They are groups of individuals. And individuals should be permitted to speak their mind, especially when they are caring enough to participate in a discussion about individuals that are marginalized.
I don't think of people as just a group. To put it in a minorly cynical way: We are not as connected as we like to think. We all live as ourselves alone and we die alone.
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holy crap this thread has become difficult to keep up with. *phew*
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I never did any hate speech and will never do so your trying to make it out that way and it's simply not true. I simply don't want to lie to you and say your right and still use it in everyday life. So what I'm saying I don't want to lie to you or anyone.
Fag is hate speech, there really is no getting around this point DDay. There is no reason you can't quit using this word. It's not easy, and you might slip up. Then you just apologize and go on. But there's no excuse to hurt people.
e: Terrorantula, the only reason I keep up with this is because I consider DDay a friend and I don't want a friend of mine saying things like this. If it was someone else I would have given up on him by now.
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Vell, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. (Frankly I was more upset at Fuckcrypt for starting it- I'd read DDay's response as actually mocking him for what he'd said.) This is starting to turn into an unwinnable argument. Browbeating him isn't gonna help. Let's just make certain that the next time he or anyone says something that offends us we clearly express our displeasure and continue to do so each time. The repetition should start to take effect after a while. And I'm not asking for an apology right now, DDay and, (i guess) fuckcrypt, but please take a second to consider how it might make those around you feel the next time you consider using it. OK? THAt'[s all I Ask.
Now Terrorantula I called myself a dirty fag so that time I did use the word as it was perceive but I act like it wasn't bad thing and said to him to kiss me hahahah.
But that one could be hateful in a way so I will apologize for that one but the way I used it for the Pittsburgh part witch I seem to be getting more flak on is not done in a bad way.
It's not a hate speech if used right.
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It's not a hate speech if used right.
There's honestly nothing more I can say to you except that this is in no way true ever.
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DDay, I'm at the point I don't really care who said what when- just please stop and think whether it might hurt others' feelings before you say something in the future.
Vell, you know he's a good person and you want to be friends- I think your friendship is more precious than who's right or wrong and as a friend perhaps you can put up with his flaws; lord knows we all have them. I'm not saying you have to like them or forgive them, but in the end you may have to endure them.
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There's honestly nothing more I can say to you except that this is in no way true ever.
really I'll give you one honest example. Man I need a smoke can I have a fag. I just proved it FYI.
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OK OK, that time it is used right, if in bad taste. But using it to describe people is not really a good use of it, so please try not to OK?
I swear sometimes it's like talking to kindergartners here. ​
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really I'll give you one honest example. Man I need a smoke can I have a fag. I just proved it FYI.
First of all you're American so you never say this, and second that's not the same word. Please don't pretend like it is, that's what EDC did earlier and even he agreed that it was wrong to make light of the situation that way.
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c'mon dday. You know that isn't what vel is talking about.
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Would everyone please give it a rest? When one gets to a point where one can make no more forward progress, it's time to stop. Frankly all this arguing and fussing is far more annoying to me than the original incident ever was.
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(Frankly I was more upset at Fuckcrypt for starting it- I'd read DDay's response as actually mocking him for what he'd said.)
Nothing wrong with pointing something like this out. We may hate the drama that springs from someone standing up for something and in doing so pitting themselves against the opinions of others, but if we can't get past that we can't progress.
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this is the laziest trolling i've ever seen
if you compared this thread to a video of a drunk stephen baldwin sitting shirtless on a couch holding a hot dog just above where his dog could get to it it would still be less lazy than this
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dday isn't trolling if that's what you're saying
if you're not talking about dday i don't wanna know...
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I found the argument/discussion interesting and I'm happy it came about. The can of worms that are the issues between the members of the forums are a unfortunate side effect. But an acceptable risk. What are we here for other for deep/progressive discussion?
Then again this is coming from the guy that posts 1 liners in the "what are you playing" topic.
Also Tristero:
Yeeeeah... what?
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whether he knows it or not he's definitely trolling
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yeah, this is like saying "you're doing the right thing, but everybody hates being criticized, so think of your social standing a little bit".
frankly, criticism doesn't make you a bad person. it's not inherently a bad thing to criticize someone. I'd prefer it if instead of telling someone like vellfire to "relax", we instead say "yeah, I agree". that normalizes the critique and helps avoid discussions like this one we're having right now.
Sorry to dig up a quote from like 4 pages ago, but this really was not what I was trying to say. I wasn't really even refering to what she said about Warped, more like the people before him. I just thought that responding to opposition in a "Fuck you, you're wrong" kind of way is not going to be the most convincing way of having someone go to your side. Now I know that I don't know Vellfaire outside of Salt World, I don't know what she's been through, shit builds up, and this is most assuredly not how she talks to people all the time, but if someone responded to something I said like that in real life I would not be convinced to side with them AT ALL. I was really just trying to say that you've got to keep calm when you do this and avoid turning into an attack so you don't end up pissing off the people you're trying to help.
And seriously, I don't want to fight with Vellfaire or Dada. If you disagree with me then so be it.
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whether he knows it or not he's definitely trolling
you can't unknowingly troll. the way I see it, trolling has two accepted definitions: either you're willingly getting people riled up by espousing things you know they loathe, or you're giving your genuine opinion but ultimately decide to backtrack by claiming you were just trolling.
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First of all you're American so you never say this, and second that's not the same word. Please don't pretend like it is, that's what EDC did earlier and even he agreed that it was wrong to make light of the situation that way.
What I'm saying is no real hate needs to be apply to such word. If my friend was acting like a fool I could use the world as stop act like such *** and there is no real hate towards anyone.
But can we just drop it and accept.
Hate dose not need to be apply to a word. Is it negative yes but is it hateful no.
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Sorry to dig up a quote from like 4 pages ago, but this really was not what I was trying to say. I wasn't really even refering to what she said about Warped, more like the people before him. I just thought that responding to opposition in a "Fuck you, you're wrong" kind of way is not going to be the most convincing way of having someone go to your side.
I think she's been very eloquent in explaining why she thinks this is the wrong thing to do. It wasn't "fuck you, you're wrong".
These things can be kind of difficult to deal with at times. Criticism is hard to swallow sometimes. But as long as there's an attempt to genuinely make people understand, and I think that's what this is, then it's worth listening to. And it's worth having the debate.
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What I'm saying is no real hate needs to be apply to such word. If my friend was acting like a fool I could use the world as stop act like such *** and there is no real hate towards anyone.
But can we just drop it and accept.
Hate dose not need to be apply to a word.
You didn't answer my question before.
If you had a black friend, and he was acting mean or annoying to you, would you ever say to him "stop being such a nigger"? Of course you wouldn't. Even if it doesn't bother your friend, then maybe it bothers the other black guy you don't know who's standing in earshot.
It's the same for the word fag, that's a word used to be demeaning and offensive to gay people. It doesn't matter what you mean by it. You could have the best intentions, and it wouldn't change a thing.
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catamites what's on your mind posts are buried like so many wasted bros...their ephemeral nature is part of their beauty. in the future an alien-human hybrid explorer will uncover the first of thecatamites roguelike posts: unable to contain his anticipation, he brushes aside the other comments in haste - though his calloused fingers are dexterous and careful not to harm the surrounding posts - "this must be it...the Golden Toad of thecatamites...it had been thought lost forever!" but to his dismay, only one other shard was discovered nearby, just as detailed and lustrous as the first, a work of art in itself...though the yearning for the whole is unbearable-
really I have to say, great distillation of the tones in their language thecats
I mean this is all OMG GW TOKEN GAY GUY having a say (although I think there are a couple of others around - hey remember when GW was mostly run by the HOMOSEX CABALS?! Good times), but I do find the use of the word 'faggot' to be incredibly offensive. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the humour in it under certain situations, but even with humour it's still a pretty offensive term. Words are wind, and shouldn't hurt, but they actually do sometimes.
I can never understand what it's like for a black person to hear the 'N' word, just as the majority of people won't understand what it's like for a homosexual person to hear the word 'faggot' used. The best result is just to moderate language to avoid offence. This isn't all OMG THOUGHT POLICE 1984, but basic decency and empathy towards others.
Queer was similar, but that's been RECLAIMED by gay people. I describe my own sexuality as Queer, for example. However, if someone CALLED me a 'queer', it'd be significantly different. It's similar to the 'N' word in this context. However, Faggot is a word that gay people haven't sought to reclaim, as it's one of the most venomous terms a person can use in reference to us.
just pointing out that as faust said, queer is similar to the n word in this way. but it's also really different. people inoffensively using queer to describe their or someone else's sexual identity isn't the same as the way nigger is used
and I think there are still lots of homosexual cannibals here
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being so stupid that you continue a pointless and idiotic circular conversation is effectively trolling regardless of intent, at least so far as its end effect on other users
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Tristero, clam up or I will eat you with rainbow sprinkles.
And now . . .
(http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/f2bbb2e3911ba29f2e251c7527e37e76/28302%20-%20animated%20Derelle%20Sweetie_Belle%20sweetie_derelle.gif)
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being so stupid that you continue a pointless and idiotic circular conversation is effectively trolling regardless of intent, at least so far as its end effect on other users
Yes, nice to know that you think a conversation about whether we should use words that can be extremely offensive to people is an "idiotic circular conversation".
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Noooooooooooooo please don't start posting images in discussions they're the worst
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I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it anymore.
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Yeah, people who have opinions vastly differing to yours doesn't even make them a troll. I agree with Dada, you can't unknowingly troll. That's not how trolling is defined, Or at least that isn't same at all to knowingly agitating people to get a reaction. Which is the definition 99% of people will give.
People use trolling to back track so they don't look like such a dick/crazy person. Or with people not willing to discuss with someone with a vastly differing opinion so they just dismiss them as a troll so they don't have to put any effort in convincing them otherwise. Both are dumb. Trolling is trolling.
Real trolls have largely scarred the internet because of this. Because now we have a internet culture that refuses to discuss authentically important topics. Its a huge waste of the internet. Something that should be advancing our minds, not as a tool to get peoples rocks off... or at least not ONLY for that.
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You didn't answer my question before.
If you had a black friend, and he was acting mean or annoying to you, would you ever say to him "stop being such a nigger"? Of course you wouldn't. Even if it doesn't bother your friend, then maybe it bothers the other black guy you don't know who's standing in earshot.
It's the same for the word fag, that's a word used to be demeaning and offensive to gay people. It doesn't matter what you mean by it. You could have the best intentions, and it wouldn't change a thing.
first off no because honestly nigger doesn't fit in any real world applications but the other word that I'm refraining form using dose.
On second thought nigger rig is real application but it could not be used in your or my context.
Also dada what question?
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1T'S 4LL GOOD TO D1SCUSS 4ND 4LL BUT SOM3T1M3S 1T B3COM3S 4N 3NTR3NCH3D MUDDL3 TH4T GO3S NOWH3RE 4ND DO3S NO GOOD. 4T SUCH PO1NTS W3 4LL N33D TO T4K3 4 D33P BR34TH 4ND C4LM DOWN. HUMOR 4LSO H3LPS D3FUS3 TH3 T3NS1ON. BUT 1T S33MS W3'R3 M4K1NG PROGR3SS 4FT3R 4LL.
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But progress has been made. a small amount. but its been made.
Also ugh don't do that. :/
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That said, I'm taking a break anyway because I wish to get my fix of Morrowind. I'm sure I'll have a couple of pages to catch up on. Unfortunate.
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first off no because honestly nigger doesn't fit in any real world applications but the other word that I'm refraining form using dose.
There are plenty of people who think that it's okay to call a black guy a "nigger" when he's annoying you. That's not too different from saying "fag". It doesn't matter if you don't mean anything racist/homophobic with it, because what matters is how people take it.
People can't read your mind. They have no idea if you have good or bad intentions.
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just dont say nigger or fag or whatever, it's not a good thing to say ever and just be conscious of that and apologize if u fuck up
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Or at least try to 8e careful.
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just dont say nigger or fag or whatever, it's not a good thing to say ever and just be conscious of that and apologize if u fuck up
This is really the main thing that needs to be taken out of this conversation. I've tried to explain why this is important at great lengths because if you don't change your attitudes about it then changing your language doesn't mean as much, but even if you don't get why it's important if you stop doing it you're at least not going to hurt anyone with it.
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Yeah.
*Glub*
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There are plenty of people who think that it's okay to call a black guy a "nigger" when he's annoying you. That's not too different from saying "fag". It doesn't matter if you don't mean anything racist/homophobic with it, because what matters is how people take it.
People can't read your mind. They have no idea if you have good or bad intentions.
You never call a black guy Nigger regardless like I will never knowingly call a gay friend a ***. But if I knew he wasn't I would call him that if he was doing something foolish. I don't use the word a lot but in the past I did use it and I can see myself using it in the future and to say I won't say it ever would be a lie.
Now I do use the word nigger rig too but it's been about 11 year since I used that one too.
This is really the main thing that needs to be taken out of this conversation. I've tried to explain why this is important at great lengths because if you don't change your attitudes about it then changing your language doesn't mean as much, but even if you don't get why it's important if you stop doing it you're at least not going to hurt anyone with it.
In reality words hurt no one actions that where associated with them where. The mind built a hate towards that word because it was used against them. Why must I hide a more proper way to use them because they associated them with that action?
You use the word hurt but in reality as long as I don't use them in hate there not hurtful at all and that's how I feel about the matter.
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In reality words hurt no one actions that where associated with them where.
The idea that words don't hurt has been proven in this very thread where the people they target told you that yes, they do. Maybe you should listen to them.
The mind built a hate towards that word because it was used against them. Why must I hide a more proper way to used them because they associated them with that action?
For one, using them to continue to insult people isn't really that grand of a gesture. Also, these words aren't yours to redefine. If the LGBT community wanted to reclaim faggot like they did queer, they could and that would be fine. You're not part of that community so that's not your choice. I understand you don't WANT the word to hurt, but it does, and that's why you need to quit using it and quit grasping at straws to make the word acceptable. You said yourself that you don't use the word a lot (and I don't remember seeing you say it until now so that's probably true), so it shouldn't be hard at all for you to stop entirely. There's plenty of other, better words out there.
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The idea that words don't hurt has been proven in this very thread where the people they target told you that yes, they do. Maybe you should listen to them.
For one, using them to continue to insult people isn't really that grand of a gesture. Also, these words aren't yours to redefine. If the LGBT community wanted to reclaim faggot like they did queer, they could and that would be fine. You're not part of that community so that's not your choice. I understand you don't WANT the word to hurt, but it does, and that's why you need to quit using it and quit grasping at straws to make the word acceptable. You said yourself that you don't use the word a lot (and I don't remember seeing you say it until now so that's probably true), so it shouldn't be hard at all for you to stop entirely. There's plenty of other, better words out there.
Sadly they still don't word don't hurt it's how they are used.
I'm not try to grab straw but accept me as I am. I will not change on my stance.
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Sadly they still don't word don't hurt it's how they are used.
I'm not try to grab straw but accept me as I am. I will not change on my stance.
There's really nothing left I can say man, but this really is a damn shame that you feel this way. How many people have to tell you that the way YOU in particular used the word was hurtful before you believe them?
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There's really nothing left I can say man, but this really is a damn shame that you feel this way. How many people have to tell you that the way YOU in particular used the word was hurtful before you believe them?
They are not hurtful there may be an Association on when they where used to hurt and words may bring about the memories of those times but if used properly they don't hurt it's all on the actions and feeling that are applied to that word.
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They are not hurtful there may be a Association on when they where used to hurt but as it stands to me I did not use it to be so.
They hurt people in this very thread. That is by definition hurtful. It CAUSED HURT that is hurtful man ! ! !
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People can't read your mind. They have no idea if you have good or bad intentions.
This is probably the best arguement I've read. but that (only within technically) leaves out the group itself for consideration. If you are calling someone else a nigger and your a black person as well one would have to assume the worst? Then again, as far as I can tell, "nigga" has slowly become the acceptable variant as a term of endearment and nigger has mostly stuck to be purely racist.
Thinking about it, it almost turns it into a practicality issue.
It it impractical to call anyone a nigger/nigga or a fag/faggot in almost any context and expect normal relations with most people to continue.
Sudden thought that I had while writing this post:
do you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?
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I think you should let it go dday. I know you've got a lot of people yelling at you. the point is that it's offensive to people regardless of your intent, and it's not their fault they find it offensive. so you should just give it up, you'll find a better word to mean stupid or uncool. having to change your vocab isn't comparable to having to be incessantly reminded off how awful and hostile a place the world can be to someone for who they are. I'm not going to argue about it so you don't have to respond, and I've read all your posts in this thread
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It it impractical to call anyone a nigger/nigga or a fag/faggot in almost any context and expect normal relations with most people to continue.
There is really no good reason to call anyone these things, with the exception being a black person using nigger/nigga. It's a reclaimed word, which is kind of a tricky thing to discuss. Some white people think that because it has been reclaimed that they should be able to use it. The thing with this is that originally the word was a way for white people to exert their power over black people. By reclaiming it for themselves, black people have taken that power back. White people trying to use it with this reasoning are just exerting their original power, which is doing the exact opposite. This comes up a lot when people try to argue about why it's okay for black people to say it but not white people.
do you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?
There is no debate, this is exactly why. This is why you can't divorce the word faggot from its meaning and turn it into a general insult. The REASON it's an insult is tied into its homophobic roots. By calling someone (typically a man) gay or a faggot, you're telling them that they are lesser. So, not only are you implying that gay people are subhuman, but you are ALSO reinforcing the homophobia of those hearing this insult. The person being insulted is going to continue associating being called gay (and homosexuality in general) with being humiliated, everyone else is going to be reminded of the same thing with the potential threat that they'll be the next one called this. The word bitch is used in the same way (making someone your bitch, someone acting like a little bitch, etc.), by implying that a man is something associated with women, you're implying he's subhuman while also reinforcing the idea that women are subhuman and you don't want to be like them. That's why people arguing that these jokes are fine within your circle of friends that you know aren't offended by things isn't a good argument. You're still reinforcing these ideas among people that you're supposed to LIKE and they're going to perpetuate it. If you and a friend get comfortable calling each other fags, you're endlessly supporting hate speech between each other and you're likely to start using it elsewhere. It's best and easiest that you just don't support hate speech at all.
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This is probably the best arguement I've read. but that (only within technically) leaves out the group itself for consideration. If you are calling someone else a nigger and your a black person as well one would have to assume the worst? Then again, as far as I can tell, "nigga" has slowly become the acceptable variant as a term of endearment and nigger has mostly stuck to be purely racist.
Thinking about it, it almost turns it into a practicality issue.
It it impractical to call anyone a nigger/nigga or a fag/faggot in almost any context and expect normal relations with most people to continue.
Sudden thought that I had while writing this post:
do you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?
Calling someone unmanly would never work so yes a sad fact and all but it's the only way to piss someone off by using such a word like that. I feel you would also need to harass them with this word because if I was called this once I will blow it off (and I was called this before). Most insults in my opinion are weak unless done over and over and it helps if you have other people to do it too.
Turning something small into something.
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There is really no good reason to call anyone these things, with the exception being a black person using nigger/nigga. It's a reclaimed word, which is kind of a tricky thing to discuss.
it's been used by black americans for a long time, though, even back when it was a more common racial slur, so I'm not sure nigger qualifies as a reappropriation. not on the same level as queer, anyway. nigga might.
guido would probably be a better example of a reappropriated slurdo you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?
yep, same with pussy/little bitch/sand in your vagina etc when directed at a man
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DDay, seriously let it go. I know that it's ingrained in your vocabulary and you don't mean any harm from it and I don't think anyone here thinks that you do, but no one is going to approve of you using it and this thread really isn't a fight worth winning.
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made a new single
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/continental-beatfest
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DDay, seriously let it go. I know that it's ingrained in your vocabulary and you don't mean any harm from it and I don't think anyone here thinks that you do, but no one is going to approve of you using it and this thread really isn't a fight worth winning.
I did let it go but you seem to just be going on. I staked my claim and that's all I will do.
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There is really no good reason to call anyone these things, with the exception being a black person using nigger/nigga. It's a reclaimed word, which is kind of a tricky thing to discuss. Some white people think that because it has been reclaimed that they should be able to use it. The thing with this is that originally the word was a way for white people to exert their power over black people. By reclaiming it for themselves, black people have taken that power back. White people trying to use it with this reasoning are just exerting their original power, which is doing the exact opposite. This comes up a lot when people try to argue about why it's okay for black people to say it but not white people.
But white people today (the non-racist ones) have about the same amount of ties to their ancestors use of this word as black people have with their ancestors being authentically treated as sub-human. Like, I know its an overly strong phrase for this issue, but "don't punish the child for the father's actions". To associate them with with the racism of their ancestor's doesn't seem fair. It IS a relatively small and unimportant loss (not being permitted to say a word tied with hatred), but its still 'technically' unfair. Which I think is what is so annoying. Something tells me most (or at least a large number) of the white people who say they think they should be allowed to say nigger/nigga aren't saying so because they honestly want to (its hard to imagine why they'd actually care), but because of some sort of principal and hating the idea that they are tied to a horrible racist practice through no fault of their own.
There is no debate, this is exactly why. This is why you can't divorce the word faggot from its meaning and turn it into a general insult. The REASON it's an insult is tied into its homophobic roots. By calling someone (typically a man) gay or a faggot, you're telling them that they are lesser. So, not only are you implying that gay people are subhuman, but you are ALSO reinforcing the homophobia of those hearing this insult. The person being insulted is going to continue associating being called gay (and homosexuality in general) with being humiliated, everyone else is going to be reminded of the same thing with the potential threat that they'll be the next one called this. The word bitch is used in the same way (making someone your bitch, someone acting like a little bitch, etc.), by implying that a man is something associated with women, you're implying he's subhuman while also reinforcing the idea that women are subhuman and you don't want to be like them. That's why people arguing that these jokes are fine within your circle of friends that you know aren't offended by things isn't a good argument. You're still reinforcing these ideas among people that you're supposed to LIKE and they're going to perpetuate it. If you and a friend get comfortable calling each other fags, you're endlessly supporting hate speech between each other and you're likely to start using it elsewhere. It's best and easiest that you just don't support hate speech at all.
What about people who only call straight men fags, yet never call gay men fags? If they are relating the man as a sub-human because of their unmanly ways, why do so many of them never do the same for the very model they are apparently basing their insult on? This is a pretty common practice. To me it almost seems likely that there are those that just think being a straight man that acts like a woman/gay man is bad. but a gay man acting like a woman/gay man is never called out because of the unsaid understanding that, "hey, he's actually gay, that's why he's like that." And why, when a woman is called a bitch, the definition completely changes from being weak/whiny (in case of men being called this) to be mean/aggravating (women being called this)?
These are just curiosities. I wonder what vel and dada have to say the most in these cases.
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But white people today (the non-racist ones) have about the same amount of ties to their ancestors use of this word as black people have with their ancestors being authentically treated as sub-human. Like, I know its an overly strong phrase for this issue, but "don't punish the child for the father's actions". To associate them with with the racism of their ancestor's doesn't seem fair. It IS a relatively small and unimportant loss (not being permitted to say a word tied with hatred), but its still 'technically' unfair. Which I think is what is so annoying. Something tells me most (or at least a large number) of the white people who say they think they should be allowed to say nigger/nigga aren't saying so because they honestly want to (its hard to imagine why they'd actually care), but because of some sort of principal and hating the idea that they are tied to a horrible racist practice through no fault of their own.
Except the racism isn't over? Even if you, personally, You As A White Man do not see yourself as racist, that doesn't mean you deserve to call people niggers. Until RACISM IS OVER then that word will have power when spoken from someone who isn't black. Just let them have it, there is no reason to argue this out of principle.
What about people who only call straight men fags, yet never call gay men fags? If they are relating the man as a sub-human because of their unmanly ways, why do so many of them never do the same for the very model they are apparently basing their insult on? This is a pretty common practice. To me it almost seems likely that there are those that just think being a straight man that acts like a woman/gay man is bad. but a gay man acting like a woman/gay man is never called out because of the unsaid understanding that, "hey, he's actually gay, that's why he's like that." And why, when a woman is called a bitch, the definition completely changes from being weak/whiny (in case of men being called this) to be mean/aggravating (women being called this)?
Because it's "socially acceptable" to call straight people fags whereas it isn't for gay people (though depending on where you live some places are JUST FINE WITH THAT TOO). The thing is, it still perpetuates the same stereotypes and it still has the same effect on gay people. They're less likely to get called out on it. How many times have you seen people toss around the words fag and bitch without a huge discussion like we've just had? Marginalized people are hesitant (and with good reason) to speak up about this and few people want to speak up on their behalf. However, when you take it too far and start calling a gay person a faggot, people take it more seriously. They're only interested in the most obviously hateful uses of the word without being concerned about the smaller but just as problematic every day uses. Everyone knows not to angrily shout nigger at a black person, but casual racism is around us every single day. The same goes for casual sexism, although a lot of people won't see a problem with you calling a woman a bitch. If you call a woman a cunt you're MORE likely to get called out on it, although it still seems like that's not always true. But, you're not nearly as likely to get called out for telling a woman to "go make me a sammich get back in the kitchen xD LOL". They both do the same thing, but only the most extreme instances get called out on by "polite society" because people are reluctant to challenge things like this.
As for the differences in the way bitch is used, I think it comes down to the way women are perceived. Women's anger isn't really taken seriously (Woah, what a bitch, huh? Must be that time of the month. Wow, you're getting kinda hysterical, huh? Women are so emotional!), so even if bitch means a woman who is angry or really just says ANYTHING in most cases, she's still incredibly weak by a MAN'S standards, so the whiniest biggest loser of a man is similar to the most aggressive woman in the eyes of a misogynist.
Women not being taken seriously is a huge issue in feminism, and words like bitch or jokes about a woman's place just make it harder to do anything about it. Women are hormonal whereas men are SPIRITED. Women are pushy whereas men are strong leaders. Women are totally ruled by emotion whereas men are logical (unless a woman wears a low cut shirt, in which case it's okay to rape her because HEY I'M A MAN I'VE GOT A STRONG SEX DRIVE DID SHE REALLY EXPECT ME TO CONTROL MYSELF? WE'RE JUST ANIMALS AFTER ALL...). Heck, a lot of doctors won't take women's health concerns seriously and will just tell them they're too stressed when they have serious medical conditions. You'd be surprised at how often this happens.
That deviated away from what you were saying a little but I think it all ties back in to this whole discussion and to why bitch is particularly dangerous. It feels a lot less powerful than a word like faggot or nigger, but that's kind of THE PROBLEM. It's a word used to demean women on a daily basis and it has become so common and pervasive that it's incredibly hard to fight against. After all, if you're a woman you call someone out for using the word bitch, they're just going to call you a bitch.
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I'm about to reread through this and I get vell and dada's point of view but you're forgetting the harshness of the real world.
You have to put that into perspective if you want a realistic opinion on this shit. Trying to convert or change or enlighten someone who doesn't necessarily need the enlightening because its on such an unimportant scale is not only wasting your time but belittling your belief systems to outsiders. Everytime you harp on this shit everytime you go one some self-rightious notion that others should take into heart your hurt feelings or anothers hurt feelings your forgetting that isn't how most people think. Most people don't give a shit about how their language effects the mindsets of others which is a terrible thing yes but its also very important.
This is the key factor in developing a "thick skin" which isn't just not letting words hurt you but developing a mindset and an ability to not let that kind of ignorance or careless disreguard for how you personally interperet what is around you belittle or prevent you from being who you are. Its important to try to change the shit you can and make known how you feel without being too preachy or overbearing because then its just words and words and the people you want to help that you might actually be able to help will not be willing to listen to you at all.
This goes back to inri and dday. No dday I don't think you're stupid, if you're here engaging in conversation you aren't stupid. But I think you kind of block out alot of shit by not thinking and haven't absorbed some stuff from this place that you should have already. Which is the problem with alot of people.
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I've said this before but it's easy to say it's "just words" when you're not the one they're targeted to. We went over the "toughen up/get a thicker skin" thing with Afura in the last big argument on the threads so I'm not going to go over that again, look it up if you have to. I'm going to bed.
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Oh god I am so sick of that your not this _____ or this _____ or that _____ horse shit.
by saying that you are automatically devaluing the opinions of others and belittling what they have to say. Most progressive thinking people now a days do not identify themselves by their race, gender, or sexual preferance. Even those of a minority race, gender, or sexual preference. And by harping on that you're trying to say that what you think is more important than what a straight white male thinks because you have a different sexual organ. Which is bullshit.
The best way I can explain this is once we were in indonesia and an indonesian guy asked my boss if his parents were from africa or something like that because he was black. My boss told him that "I don't fucking know, I'm an american".
That is the most innocent, simple, and perfect way to explain what I'm trying to convey here.
This superiority and self-rightiousness is doing nothing but working backwards for you.
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Think of it this way. It's very nearly impossible to tell, by sight, if someone's gay. A lot of people are loath to identify themselves as gay/queer for lots of reasons, but among them is all the times they hear someone just casually toss out "that's gay!" or "what a bunch of fags" in conversation. Using those words like that reinforces their negative meaning, and if someone can avoid being perceived negatively by not saying a few words, they'll stay quiet. You don't know if the people you're talking to are gay. If they're not, you might be making them uncomfortable because it's an issue they care about. If they are, you're probably making them feel like shit. (After a while, it wears you down.) And if they're malleable kids or adults, you're influencing them to act the same way you are, and they don't know all your rationalizations.
This (http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/episode_245_-_todd_glass) is a podcast where a comedian from Philly who's pretty genial talks about why he waited ~40 years to really come out. It is a good listen.
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I've said this before but it's easy to say it's "just words" when you're not the one they're targeted to. We went over the "toughen up/get a thicker skin" thing with Afura in the last big argument on the threads so I'm not going to go over that again, look it up if you have to. I'm going to bed.
I'm not saying its "just words" I'm not saying its not hurtful to you. I'm saying as an intelligent and strong person you should be smart enough to realize that you cannot control the world around you. You cannot change how people think or talk. And by letting it get to you and by focusing on obscure shit to the bigger picture of things you're only causing yourself more stress.
Think of it this way. It's very nearly impossible to tell, by sight, if someone's gay. A lot of people are loath to identify themselves as gay/queer for lots of reasons, but among them is all the times they hear someone just casually toss out "that's gay!" or "what a bunch of fags" in conversation. Using those words like that reinforces their negative meaning, and if someone can avoid being perceived negatively by not saying a few words, they'll stay quiet. You don't know if the people you're talking to are gay.
I'm not saying you aren't completely right about this. I'm saying people like dday (unenlightened and unthoughtful to a certain extent) probably won't give a shit no matter what you say. They'll probably be respectful to YOU and not say it around YOU but they'll still think the same way and your preaching won't change their perspective. Because they really don't have one and won't want one.
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Extremist are really just a hand full out there compared to the entire race of humans and to fully think about them maybe the nice way of thinking till look below the surface there views tainted and built up hate for a certain subject all you encouraging there hate and that they should be mad about anything and that I disagree with.
i didn't really read this or your other posts but i read "entire race of humans...below the surface" and if you are talking about a lost race of blind albinos that live beneath the earth's crust then yes
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Like, I remember once faust was talking about how the kids in his class he was teaching use the word fag and gay all the time in misguided useage. He came to the conclusion that though what they were saying was in a way hurtful to him, he understood that for the most part that was not their intent. That they were just stupid kids not realizing or caring about what they were saying and so he "let it go" in a sense.
What I'm saying is that right there is the kind of person I'm talking about and if fucking faust of all people can do that then you should be more than capable.
I'm not saying "don't tell dday saying fag is dumb" I'm saying telling him once should give you the impression of whether its gonna matter to him or not. That post dday made after having been confronted about it is probably how dday is gonna feel unless he sees some shit for himself or grows up a little bit. But I like you dday and I like your young minded-ness. I don't really find it offensive but thats because I have to live with this shit every day which is why I'm trying to make the point I'm trying to make.
Also it is completely self-centered and shitty to say that because I'm a white straight male this shit doesn't effect me or I don't think about it. I do all the time and pretty much everytime I hear the words nigger, bitch, or faggot shit runs through my head. But I'm not gonna say I think about it more or less than you though cus I don't know you.
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Like, I remember once faust was talking about how the kids in his class he was teaching use the word fag and gay all the time in misguided useage. He came to the conclusion that though what they were saying was in a way hurtful to him, he understood that for the most part that was not their intent. That they were just stupid kids not realizing or caring about what they were saying and so he "let it go" in a sense.
What I'm saying is that right there is the kind of person I'm talking about and if fucking faust of all people can do that then you should be more than capable.
I'm not saying "don't tell dday saying fag is dumb" I'm saying telling him once should give you the impression of whether its gonna matter to him or not. That post dday made after having been confronted about it is probably how dday is gonna feel unless he sees some shit for himself or grows up a little bit. But I like you dday and I like your young minded-ness. I don't really find it offensive but thats because I have to live with this shit every day which is why I'm trying to make the point I'm trying to make.
Also it is completely self-centered and shitty to say that because I'm a white straight male this shit doesn't effect me or I don't think about it. I do all the time and pretty much everytime I hear the words nigger, bitch, or faggot shit runs through my head. But I'm not gonna say I think about it more or less than you though cus I don't know you.
google dot com mansplain google dot com derailing for dummies
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Saying a man is Mansplaining (being a man and talking about a important topic related to women's rights) is as sexist as saying a woman is just bitching (when they complain about the unfairness of society to women). I can understand saying 'mansplaining' as a "Here's a taste of your own medicine, dicks", but continual use is just lowering to the sexist asshole's level. Also, Farren isn't being a sexist dick so your ire is mis-targeted, fuckcrypt.
Like I can't fathom looking at the term 'mansplaining' as legitimate tool to fix gender relations (though I suppose that isn't its purpose?). Its just stokes the fire. If anything, its use is oddly a stereotypically sexist man response, 'insult and dismiss'.
I can understand 'talking down to women' as the definition of mansplaining. but then I really don't understand why stating ones point of view makes it seem like they are talking down to them. Other men talk/explain to me the same way, arguably, as have women.
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Do men mansplain to other men? Is it still mansplaining then?
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27389192/mansplain.jpg)
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Look, I think there may be even a few Lgbt people who've used "the F-word" in their own book titles for varied reasons- sometimes one must be unapologetic- that language changes over time, but some words still sting, (http://www.metroweekly.com/news/opinion/?ak=3424) that, indeed, there are situations where one must weather things or let them go. While I can try to shape opinions, in the end what you say and when is your choice, but many people listen to and make allowances for those closest to them, and it's oftne safest tho handle certain words as if they were bombs- carefully.
What you do outside of here, guys, is your business, and I, for one, respect that, but please, while you're here, try to keep your audience in mind. It's like your buddy with allergies; he's not telling you you can't eat nuts, but, knowing he's allergic to them, asks that you don't serve him any, and try not to have them around while he visits. For some of us certain words are poison; please, when talking to us, try not to serve us any. Thanks.
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Saying a man is Mansplaining (being a man and talking about a important topic related to women's rights) is as sexist as saying a woman is just bitching (when they complain about the unfairness of society to women). I can understand saying 'mansplaining' as a "Here's a taste of your own medicine, dicks", but continual use is just lowering to the sexist asshole's level. Also, Farren isn't being a sexist dick so your ire is mis-targeted, fuckcrypt.
Like I can't fathom looking at the term 'mansplaining' as legitimate tool to fix gender relations (though I suppose that isn't its purpose?). Its just stokes the fire. If anything, its use is oddly a stereotypically sexist man response, 'insult and dismiss'.
I can understand 'talking down to women' as the definition of mansplaining. but then I really don't understand why stating ones point of view makes it seem like they are talking down to them. Other men talk/explain to me the same way, arguably, as have women.
for great justice
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Take off Every ZIG! :P
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It does seem very difficult to talk about these kind of things in this format without the debate spiraling outwards until it becomes a very complex, and muddled, debate about every kind of ignorance there is. I hope that the result of all this is that a few people around here who still use the kind of hateful language being talked about will stop using it entirely. It's only a tiny gesture in appreciation of the fact you live in a society.
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I guess, Jamie, that at least for right now I'm asking for even less than that- only that people not address me with that language. And I will admit there are times when demoralizing others is an effective tactic; still, among friends, not enemies, I hope those times are rare.
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take off every zigic
move zigic
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EAT THE RICH, THEY’RE GLUTEN FREE
[/color]LETS CHOP DOWN PATRIARCHY AND USE IT FOR FIREWOOD
[/color]RIOTS AREN’T VIOLENCE
[/color]99% OF NORMAL SUCKS
[/color]99% OF CAPITALISM SUCKS
[/color]99% OF CISMEN SUCK
[/color]QUEERS AGAINST REFORMISM
[/color]ITS BROKEN, BUT DON’T FIX IT – BURN IT DOWN
[/color]BAIL OUT EVERY PRISONER, DOWNSIZE THE COPS
[/color]IT’S A WHITE MAN’S WORLD, LET’S DESTROY IT
[/color]EVEN VOLDEMORT THINKS LIBERALISM IS EVIL
[/color]GOTHS AGAINST CAPITAL
[/color]STEAMPUNKS AGAINST DADS
[/color]TANKGIRL AGAINST WORK
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I guess, Jamie, that at least for right now I'm asking for even less than that- only that people not address me with that language. And I will admit there are times when demoralizing others is an effective tactic; still, among friends, not enemies, I hope those times are rare.
no one said that or is saying that or has said that here.
The argument is: Should one personally give a shit what people say if its not directed at them or a niche they fit vs People should generally be more respectful and keep ones sensitivity to their niche in mind when speaking in a general manner
google dot com mansplain google dot com derailing for dummies
You know how dumb this is? You're a man so your opinion on women is irrelevant. If that was the case women would have never gotten women's rights. How the fuck you get or fight for rights for a minority if the opinions of the empathetic majority are completely irrelevent?
You should read and think more and stop being a condescending dick all the time.
Its a stupid argument anyways. It just stupifies me how someone can gain tolerance and preach tolerance but be completely intolerant of the misguidedly intolerant. Its some kind of fucked up backwards predjudice.
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I don't know if anyone sees this.
Yeah there are still racial injustices, sexual injustices, gender injustices.
But once they're made known the general public tend to (on almost every level) shoot that shit down as soon as its personified in a manner they can see for themselves. I'm not necessarily talking about law either, because law is a whole other can of shit. I'm talking about peoples opinions on such a thing. Look at that Karl Rove (?) when he called that girl a whore on his radio show. Practically everyone immediately ridiculed the shit out of that guy, yes he had a few stupid supporters but they were definitely not the majority. Or don't ask don't tell getting repealed, I don't think that was a big fight in public opinion nearly as much as just changing the law. Shit even in the backwater fuck town where I'm from where loved ones sling the word nigger and faggot around daily. Its STILL not generally accepted in public. And the exact same people doing it in a hateful manner wouldn't do it to those people because they know its not accepted. Its just putting that link between not accepted and unethical. Thats the problem and thats not really something you can teach I think.
So focusing on this shit on a personal level and claiming that men are still drastically sexist, or people are still incredibly racist or hate homosexuals is a farce. I'm not saying the ignorance and hate isn't there, I'm saying that its not accepted on the level you're claiming it to be (I see a little sexism in pop culture but alot of the sexism is coming from women perpetuating it themselves. Which you could blame on men I guess but I think that would be a little unfair at this day and age.) And coming out like FUCK DUDE YOU GOTTA DICK SO YOU DONT KNOW HOW MUCH WOMEN SUFFER is exacerbating the shit out of it. Especially when there are men trying to empathize with you and understand what you're going through.
Claiming that white guilt or manguilt is kind of unfair from certain angles. Sometimes it is fair but I think in this place it totally isn't. If one is willing to look from your point of view that probably means they've been misjudged or mischaracterized themselves (which is why you'd think they would give a shit in the first place) and telling them they don't know shit because they're not your minority is pretty terrible.
Edit: lol I didn't know you were still talking about use of the words as in should they or shouldn't they. Yeah thats a dumb argument. I'm trying to go towards something else entirely. None of those words should be used.
Its just the concept at the level of race and feminism around here is way too defensive in my opinion when its not necessary. You can talk about the shit and not get so riled up about it.
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if there was Beauty in d-railing or confusin the discussion then u wuld be the bombshell ur planning to tattoo farren. 2;47
terrontulla esiann velfarre dada etc etc all are de.f right and besides, it's embarrassing that dday keeps blaming US for making a scene about it (you extremetists...) when repeatedly told in numerous, rich ways by several people about what he's doing is bad anywhere + what, 4-5 sexual minorities in this topic already telling him the same? fuck off Dday, stop dodging. it's wrong anywhere and now you should know it. laziest curmudgeon-trollin' ive seen for awhile (hi5's tristero *yyyeahhhh!!*, dada looks astonished)
more importantly... i was thinking about catas' posts and i was finkin'... uhh idk it was this idea of an actual roguelike (like adom or nethack) but youre thrown into dungeons or whatever and you have a bro companion/a bro with you who comments to everything all the time. all the messages are bro-talk too. idk if the game ends with your bro companion dying but i contemplate that nobody wants to let the bro companion die despite it's hard to control (you shout your dog an order!! bro refuses to listen!! bro swings pocket knife at trogglodyte!! ya shout ya dog! you hear a shout 'ya i hear ya bro'. trogglodyte takes a bite of dat nice butt!) becasue the game has like 10000000 unique bro comments so basically it's the most creative and random + most pleasurable (fuck sp) roguelike ever on earth. it's like that wutang roguelike but with a working system/genuine fantasy roguelike as a base + tons of unique comments/scripting in it. you enter a room - it smells of carrots. bro comments "smells like leftover beer" idk i'm not good at these but like STUMBLE INTO BIZARRE RANDOM EVENTS, GET TONS OF UNIQUE AND POSSIBLY RANDOMIZED COMMENTS FROM BROS it's all good
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUq_Wdc898 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUq_Wdc898) haaaaaaaaaaaa. ed u cation.
i have nothing worthwhile to say on any of this (clearly you shouldn't say fag, jeez) aside from that I have mixed feelings on the word mansplaining. i think that it rightly highlights and ridicules an element of male chauvinism. it also contributes to a stereotype that men are ignorant and sexist. while this stereotype is largely based in fact, it would be cool if it wasn't, and I think that there's reason to be concerned that forming that stereotype might hinder progress in making it untrue. it's a word ripe for repurposing by apologists for misogyny and chauvinism. so i don't find the word particularly offensive, it's nowhere near as damaging as talking about bitching etc, but i would probably shy away from using it myself. i don't have much grounding for this point, but i feel like it's better to react to sexist behaviour like it's non-normal even though it's actually common. unless you're talking to someone who denies that sexism exists. i guess there's many of those on many different levels.
also (semi-related) I have invented a game that makes it near impossible to watch television. it's called "GENDER NORMS". what you do is you wait for there to be a gender norm syndicated through the television set and then you shout "GENDER NORMS" and you get a point. goes great with another game called "THAT'S RACIST", which it apparently how Das Racist got their name. only problem is you might get short on breath or lose track of your points.
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biggles keeps droning about mainsplaning in great depth in a twangy, nasal tone with his arms folded in a stiff standing position, most of the time eyes closed BUT ALAS!!!!! bonzi excitedly leaps on him in excitement like a dog, biggles shrieks under him and flayls arms to get rid off the assaulter!! bonzi dodges punches and keeps on about his roguelike while biggles looks angrily at bonzi, his face is red...
if there was Beauty in d-railing or confusin the discussion then u wuld be the bombshell ur planning to tattoo farren. 2;47
terrontulla esiann velfarre dada etc etc all are de.f right and besides, it's embarrassing that dday keeps blaming US for making a scene about it (you extremetists...) when repeatedly told in numerous, rich ways by several people about what he's doing is bad anywhere + what, 4-5 sexual minorities in this topic already telling him the same? fuck off Dday, stop dodging. it's wrong anywhere and now you should know it. laziest curmudgeon-trollin' ive seen for awhile (hi5's tristero *yyyeahhhh!!*, dada looks astonished)
more importantly... i was thinking about catas' posts and i was finkin'... uhh idk it was this idea of an actual roguelike (like adom or nethack) but youre thrown into dungeons or whatever and you have a bro companion/a bro with you who comments to everything all the time. all the messages are bro-talk too. idk if the game ends with your bro companion dying but i contemplate that nobody wants to let the bro companion die despite it's hard to control (you shout your dog an order!! bro refuses to listen!! bro swings pocket knife at trogglodyte!! ya shout ya dog! you hear a shout 'ya i hear ya bro'. trogglodyte takes a bite of dat nice butt!) becasue the game has like 10000000 unique bro comments so basically it's the most creative and random + most pleasurable (fuck sp) roguelike ever on earth. it's like that wutang roguelike but with a working system/genuine fantasy roguelike as a base + tons of unique comments/scripting in it. you enter a room - it smells of carrots. bro comments "smells like leftover beer" idk i'm not good at these but like STUMBLE INTO BIZARRE RANDOM EVENTS, GET TONS OF UNIQUE AND POSSIBLY RANDOMIZED COMMENTS FROM BROS it's all good
like randomly you'd get bro points/extra hood/man points by having discussions/dialogue with your bro (brobonding) with him opening about having a mancrush on 2pac/serious convos about 2pac and we pretty much need catas or hundley writing these intense dialogue sequences where the derail is like... MAINRAIL. you get me hog... ay carumba, mee soo liiikeyy... idk i mean you have to know how roguelikes work and how you can out of blue get a message (with PRESS SPACE BAR TO CONTINUE stopping the action every time so that you can't just (hopefully) press enter or direction down or whatever to skip it immediately) about a frog appearing out of nowhere who croaks (after a long pause) "Ye areth a boring kind, aren't ye?" and disapears. or hear a voice whispering in your ear "*i c e b e r g*" and it's probably intensively important since it's rare?? but you don't know how...
EDIT you see a hologram of 2pac doin a jig in the wall.. bless his soul in heaven..you feel like punchin a hole in wall...etc etc
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I do not have a lot of time so this isn't gonna be as long as it needs to be probably
I don't know if anyone sees this.
Yeah there are still racial injustices, sexual injustices, gender injustices.
But once they're made known the general public tend to (on almost every level) shoot that shit down as soon as its personified in a manner they can see for themselves. I'm not necessarily talking about law either, because law is a whole other can of shit. I'm talking about peoples opinions on such a thing. Look at that Karl Rove (?) when he called that girl a whore on his radio show. Practically everyone immediately ridiculed the shit out of that guy, yes he had a few stupid supporters but they were definitely not the majority. Or don't ask don't tell getting repealed, I don't think that was a big fight in public opinion nearly as much as just changing the law. Shit even in the backwater fuck town where I'm from where loved ones sling the word nigger and faggot around daily. Its STILL not generally accepted in public. And the exact same people doing it in a hateful manner wouldn't do it to those people because they know its not accepted. Its just putting that link between not accepted and unethical. Thats the problem and thats not really something you can teach I think.
So focusing on this shit on a personal level and claiming that men are still drastically sexist, or people are still incredibly racist or hate homosexuals is a farce.
You're only looking at the most extreme examples here, and completely ignoring institutionalized sexism/racism/etc. It's not just a matter of law either, public opinion absolutely ties into it. The biggest example is of course rape. Women are essentially blamed for their own rapes most of the time. "What were you wearing", "did you lead him on", "did you say no", "did you say no again", "did you try to fight him", etc. This isn't something that just happens in court, this happens in PUBLIC. I mean, pretty much all you've said is that SLURS aren't acceptable, the viewpoints behind them absolutely are. Catcalls are seen as compliments instead of harassment. Out of the top Fortune 500 companies, only 18 CEOs are women (and that's after the numbers went up last year ! ! !). I don't have time to list more but sexism is in every part of our society. Whether you see it as blatant or not, it's still crippling. However, these things are just seen as normal. They don't feel like blatant sexism because we're raised to accept them as perfectly normal.
I'm not saying the ignorance and hate isn't there, I'm saying that its not accepted on the level you're claiming it to be (I see a little sexism in pop culture but alot of the sexism is coming from women perpetuating it themselves. Which you could blame on men I guess but I think that would be a little unfair at this day and age.) And coming out like FUCK DUDE YOU GOTTA DICK SO YOU DONT KNOW HOW MUCH WOMEN SUFFER is exacerbating the shit out of it. Especially when there are men trying to empathize with you and understand what you're going through.
Claiming that white guilt or manguilt is kind of unfair from certain angles. Sometimes it is fair but I think in this place it totally isn't. If one is willing to look from your point of view that probably means they've been misjudged or mischaracterized themselves (which is why you'd think they would give a shit in the first place) and telling them they don't know shit because they're not your minority is pretty terrible.
Are you seriously blaming women for sexism? Yes, some women do sexist things. This is called internalized misogyny. This is because women are raised in a horribly misogynistic society. They're raised to hate and be uncomfortable with certain aspects of themselves and other women because (MALE-DOMINATED) society tells them that those things are bad. I honestly don't see how you can blame women with a straight face for being the instruments of their own oppression. Would you blame the Hitler Youth? Or would you blame the system that educated them? What if women ARE the real misogynists? Does that mean you need to be one too? Or should you do your part to stop misogyny?
As for the other comment, privilege isn't guilt. You need to understand this right now. NOBODY is asking you to feel guilty because you're a man or white or straight or what have you. You're just being asked to recognize it, which you apparently don't based on the way you're hung up over this. The fact is, you never WILL be a woman. You will never be raised as a woman. You literally never will know what it's like. I can tell you certain things about being a woman, sure. But you've not been socialized as a woman. It's an experience you haven't and will never have. You have to just accept that, dude. By trying to make it sound like SOME ANGRY RANTING you're doing both of us a disservice. I'm not ANGRY that you don't know what it's like, I'm frustrated that you can't see past your own privilege. When you try to put yourself in my shoes, I appreciate the effort but because you've not been raised as a woman you really just CAN'T in a lot of cases. You CAN'T see why the word bitch hurts so bad. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt you too! Slurs should make you cringe no matter who you are! But it will never hurt you in the same way it hurts me. It's not about who it hurts the most, it's how. And that's something I can't give you. All I can do is explain that it hurts and try to explain why, and all you can do is listen. That's what this is about. When a black person tells me their troubles I honestly can't try to guess how I'd approach the situation because I was raised white in a white society. I can however appreciate their feelings and empathize with them and when they tell me something that would help (such as not saying a slur) I'll do it. But I won't even being to act like I understand what they've gone through, because it's an experience I'll never have and never fully get. I'm not saying DON'T EMPATHIZE.
Its just the concept at the level of race and feminism around here is way too defensive in my opinion when its not necessary. You can talk about the shit and not get so riled up about it.
Don't get so riled up. Relax. Why does this matter to you so much? Why are you putting so much time into this? Why do you think so hard about these things?
I hear this every goddamn time I try to have a conversation about anything important to me. I've heard this shit in this thread several times. I hate to say this because it's going to make you irritated again, but you don't have to live this. It's a lot easier for you to be divorced from the emotion of this issue because you don't have to deal with being a woman in our society. You don't have to get riled up about it. I'm gonna quote something from a feminist blog here (by doing so I'm not accusing you of playing devil's advocate or that you're having tons of fun arguing this, but it touches on the emotion in this type of discussion)
There are the occasions that men—intellectual men, clever men, engaged men—insist on playing devil's advocate, desirous of a debate on some aspect of feminist theory or reproductive rights or some other subject generally filed under the heading: Women's Issues. These intellectual, clever, engaged men want to endlessly probe my argument for weaknesses, want to wrestle over details, want to argue just for fun—and they wonder, these intellectual, clever, engaged men, why my voice keeps raising and why my face is flushed and why, after an hour of fighting my corner, hot tears burn the corners of my eyes. Why do you have to take this stuff so personally? ask the intellectual, clever, and engaged men, who have never considered that the content of the abstract exercise that's so much fun for them is the stuff of my life.
(the article, if you're interested http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html (http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html))
This is abstract to you. You're not being catcalled, you're not in classes where you're one of if not THE only girl and all your classmates are perfectly fine throwing around gendered slurs in your presence because hey, if you can't hack it get out of our boys club! You don't have people assuming you know nothing about certain subjects because you're a woman. You don't have people not taking your concerns seriously because clearly you're just a bitchy feminist and man I wish those feminazis would just SHUT UP right??? This is, as that blogger said, the stuff of my life. I can't divorce emotion from that. I can't sit here and speak clinically like we're in a debate team because this stuff DOES get me riled up and it SHOULD get me riled up. Why SHOULDN'T I get emotional over this? If you divorce it from its emotion, you lose the importance. If being called a cunt just made me cringe it might not be as big of a problem, but being called a cunt makes me sick. It makes me furious. Telling me to not be defensive and not get riled up about it is making it seem like it's not a problem. It's a huge problem and it affects me every single day of my life. If feminism was an accepted universal good maybe I wouldn't have to fight so hard, but it's not. It's really, really not.
e: shoulda just gone with fuckcrypt's example and done the last bit by saying "google derailing for dummies"
Don’t worry about silly things like their feelings – c’mon, they’re grownups, aren’t they! The only thing that matters is defending your discrimination as completely fair and to avoid examining your prejudiced arguments in ways that may challenge them. You could even drop this little bomb: “You are damaging your cause by being angry, real understanding can only happen if all sides are respectful and patient”.
Not only do you come across as a smug, self-righteous asshat (though you may prefer the term “bigger person”) you can also manage to subtly make them feel guilty about their anger, as though it’s undeserved! Everybody wins! Well, except them of course.
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Then again, as far as I can tell, "nigga" has slowly become the acceptable variant as a term of endearment and nigger has mostly stuck to be purely racist.
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
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Vellfire: Yesterday, in irc, you were talking about this topic and I was arguing for composure and even-handedness in your responses to the dummies. I've been thinking about that. My recognition that people on the wrong side of these kind of debates are still people and have to be appreciated in that universal way rather than just their single infraction is a new thing. I used to be quite comfortable dismissing certain people as pieces of shit and being vocal about it - it's something I learned around here, in part. Anyway, it's a new thing for me and I'm still working out exactly how tolerant I should be of people who are ignorant. However, I think I landed too close to the 'calm down' message when I was talking to you and that isn't my business - to tell you to take a wider view of things, when some of what has been said here directly affects you. It probably isn't my business at all to make any suggestions at all about how you should deal with the people who are doing this to you. I am rethinking many things just now, so that is one of the reasons I try to keep this balanced perspective, but that is only for me so I'm sorry if I ended up sounding like one of the voices telling you to be quiet and calm down.
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Vellfire: Yesterday, in irc, you were talking about this topic and I was arguing for composure and even-handedness in your responses to the dummies. I've been thinking about that. My recognition that people on the wrong side of these kind of debates are still people and have to be appreciated in that universal way rather than just their single infraction is a new thing. I used to be quite comfortable dismissing certain people as pieces of shit and being vocal about it - it's something I learned around here, in part. Anyway, it's a new thing for me and I'm still working out exactly how tolerant I should be of people who are ignorant. However, I think I landed too close to the 'calm down' message when I was talking to you and I suppose that isn't my business - to tell you to take a wider view of things, when some of what has been said here directly affects you because you are a woman. It probably isn't my business at all to make any suggestions about how you should deal with the people who are doing this to you. I am rethinking many things just now, so that is one of the reasons I try to keep this balanced perspective, but that is only for me so I'm sorry if I ended up sounding like one of the voices telling you to be quiet and calm down.
Thanks for saying this. I know where you're coming from on this btw, and I think you now know where I'm coming from too now so WE'RE GOOD.
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I'm muffled...an e-alpha male has removed my manhood...MYSTIC_BRO warns "YO, shut up bro...YO the broguelike is a myth...YO bros I decry, shut up about the brogues"
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muffled...an e-alpha male has removed my manhood...MYSTIC_BRO warns "YO, shut up bro...YO the broguelike is a myth...YO bros I decry, shut up about the brogues"
Bro 1 falls down a pit! The gnoll bites! Bro 2 falls down the pit! Bro 2 lands on Bro 1! 'Bro 1: 'Yo get off me bro, that's homo bro". Gnoll 1 grabs a beer! Bro 1 is furious!! Bro 1: "Yo, that's my beer yo!!" Bro 1 pounds his chest! edit also you meticulously kill the enemy but alas you make the mistake! in the same turn the bro 1 moves into spot, nooo!!!! Bro 1 picks up the potion! Bro 1 drinks the potion! Bro 1 starts to vomit violently!![PRESS ][/PRESS]Sudendly a patch green fungi grows on Bro 1's chest!! A pair of antenna grows through Bro 1's head, pushin the NY cap to the ground! Bro 1 picks up some kardashian weed from himself! Bro 1 smokes weed!!
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for great justice
Yes, don't actually respond with anything substantial. Just dismiss me. That is how its done! Progress!
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
I meant, among only black people, Like, if a black person said nigger to another black person it'd probably be ok but I'm sure the occasional awkward moment would arise, in comparison to nigga, which would be accepted more often. Of course I've only heard this from various random black people, so I suppose my source is arguably questionable.
Or at least that is what I assume that what you are freaking out about (I suppose its a legit thing to freak about about too). May I remind you that I don't say either of the words.
Farren lost me a little here. I actually do think this is something that is right to be defensive about this (or, at the risk of sounding silly, anything you believe in) assuming 'defensive' is defined as arguing your point the best one can and being persistent. Both of those things should have a net positive outcome on the world (if such a thing could be measured). Discussion is good.
I know your responses were aimed at farren, but I'd like to respond as well, I hope that is ok.
You're only looking at the most extreme examples here, and completely ignoring institutionalized sexism/racism/etc. It's not just a matter of law either, public opinion absolutely ties into it. The biggest example is of course rape. Women are essentially blamed for their own rapes most of the time. "What were you wearing", "did you lead him on", "did you say no", "did you say no again", "did you try to fight him", etc. This isn't something that just happens in court, this happens in PUBLIC. I mean, pretty much all you've said is that SLURS aren't acceptable, the viewpoints behind them absolutely are. Catcalls are seen as compliments instead of harassment. Out of the top Fortune 500 companies, only 18 CEOs are women (and that's after the numbers went up last year ! ! !). I don't have time to list more but sexism is in every part of our society. Whether you see it as blatant or not, it's still crippling. However, these things are just seen as normal. They don't feel like blatant sexism because we're raised to accept them as perfectly normal.
I know there are fucks that blame the woman for their own rape, but I've literally never met someone like this. So so its hard to imagine they are so common. But maybe they are, all I have is anecdotal evidence (personal experience). I've also yet to actually HEAR catcalls outside of a movie or TV show. But again I know it occurs. My inexperience with these 2 aspects of your argument does make it difficult to respond with anything. I can't judge cat calls unless I actually hear some real ones. I can assume that those that do them are rude twats though.
Are you seriously blaming women for sexism? Yes, some women do sexist things. This is called internalized misogyny. This is because women are raised in a horribly misogynistic society. They're raised to hate and be uncomfortable with certain aspects of themselves and other women because (MALE-DOMINATED) society tells them that those things are bad. I honestly don't see how you can blame women with a straight face for being the instruments of their own oppression. Would you blame the Hitler Youth? Or would you blame the system that educated them? What if women ARE the real misogynists? Does that mean you need to be one too? Or should you do your part to stop misogyny?
Actually another thing that Farren lost me a little on. but outside of that, there is this: Then couldn't the same be said of many sexist men who have grown up in a misogynist culture? That they aren't completely to blame? Also, there are those that still think that anyone that was part of the Hitler youth is an evil shit head. Like I remember the rumors that the pope was Hitler Youth and everyone that I talked to about it was very clearly disgusted at the pope or tried to deny it like it would make the pope a horrible person (though one could argue makes for a questionable authority figure). Not saying that is right. Obviously its wrong. but it people are just that way sometimes. :/ (disclaimer: I'm agnostic, I don't put any importance on the pope other than his actual power and how he uses it)
As for the other comment, privilege isn't guilt. You need to understand this right now. NOBODY is asking you to feel guilty because you're a man or white or straight or what have you. You're just being asked to recognize it, which you apparently don't based on the way you're hung up over this. The fact is, you never WILL be a woman. You will never be raised as a woman. You literally never will know what it's like. I can tell you certain things about being a woman, sure. But you've not been socialized as a woman. It's an experience you haven't and will never have. You have to just accept that, dude. By trying to make it sound like SOME ANGRY RANTING you're doing both of us a disservice. I'm not ANGRY that you don't know what it's like, I'm frustrated that you can't see past your own privilege. When you try to put yourself in my shoes, I appreciate the effort but because you've not been raised as a woman you really just CAN'T in a lot of cases. You CAN'T see why the word bitch hurts so bad. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt you too! Slurs should make you cringe no matter who you are! But it will never hurt you in the same way it hurts me. It's not about who it hurts the most, it's how. And that's something I can't give you. All I can do is explain that it hurts and try to explain why, and all you can do is listen. That's what this is about. When a black person tells me their troubles I honestly can't try to guess how I'd approach the situation because I was raised white in a white society. I can however appreciate their feelings and empathize with them and when they tell me something that would help (such as not saying a slur) I'll do it. But I won't even being to act like I understand what they've gone through, because it's an experience I'll never have and never fully get. I'm not saying DON'T EMPATHIZE.
I know men are more socially and financially privileged than women, I know white people are more privileged than all other minorities, etc. but what good does just acknowledging it do exactly? Are you supposed to act a certain way? Is one (a white or a male, or a straight person) supposed to just accept minor injustices because major injustices inflicted apon others with less privilege? Major injustices that one (personally) had nothing to do with even? IDK, honestly. IDK if that is right. Maybe that isn't what you are talking about though. But I kind of taking this thread of thought and making some assumptions on where it leads. Sorry, if I'm going in the wrong direction.
Don't get so riled up. Relax. Why does this matter to you so much? Why are you putting so much time into this? Why do you think so hard about these things?
I hear this every goddamn time I try to have a conversation about anything important to me. I've heard this shit in this thread several times. I hate to say this because it's going to make you irritated again, but you don't have to live this. It's a lot easier for you to be divorced from the emotion of this issue because you don't have to deal with being a woman in our society. You don't have to get riled up about it. I'm gonna quote something from a feminist blog here (by doing so I'm not accusing you of playing devil's advocate or that you're having tons of fun arguing this, but it touches on the emotion in this type of discussion)(the article, if you're interested http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html (http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html))
I can't say that you've come off as emotional or irrational. You've been largely calm as far as I can tell. (outside of the occasional swear, but swear I casually all the time so that could be what you are doing... but this is the internet, so it is hard to tell) But I will say emotion may fuel the argument and is basically the only importance to any argument, that one feels strongly about it, but it has the worrisome potential of being illogical, destructive, and unfair if used as part of an argument itself. And that emotion should be divorced from the actual deciding arguments.
This is abstract to you. You're not being catcalled, you're not in classes where you're one of if not THE only girl and all your classmates are perfectly fine throwing around gendered slurs in your presence because hey, if you can't hack it get out of our boys club! You don't have people assuming you know nothing about certain subjects because you're a woman. You don't have people not taking your concerns seriously because clearly you're just a bitchy feminist and man I wish those feminazis would just SHUT UP right??? This is, as that blogger said, the stuff of my life. I can't divorce emotion from that. I can't sit here and speak clinically like we're in a debate team because this stuff DOES get me riled up and it SHOULD get me riled up. Why SHOULDN'T I get emotional over this? If you divorce it from its emotion, you lose the importance. If being called a cunt just made me cringe it might not be as big of a problem, but being called a cunt makes me sick. It makes me furious. Telling me to not be defensive and not get riled up about it is making it seem like it's not a problem. It's a huge problem and it affects me every single day of my life. If feminism was an accepted universal good maybe I wouldn't have to fight so hard, but it's not. It's really, really not.
Like I said, being emotional is fine, as long as one keeps their composure inside of an argument itself.
As for the pieces you've quoted from the blog (though I read the whole thing), I understand why one might become so emotional in a debate where the aspects directly affect those involved. but usually its still generally considered time to stop and come back to it if someone gets very emotional or personal. Because emotions do in fact contain the powerful ability to cloud judgement. One can (or at least should) see why such a discussion is personal, and maybe end it when it does. And yet I suppose, that runs the risk over never discussing these issues... especially never discussing with with women directly hurt by it, which is obviously not quite acceptable either... hmmm... touchy. How does one avoid the emotional cloud but still discuss it with someone directly involved with these issues?
Anyway, play Devil's Advocate IS NOT A BAD THING. If someone has holes/weaknesses in their argument, they should be revealed. I know that this was never the point but it came off as if Playing Devil's Advocate is terrible thing that one shouldn't do.
As I said, I read the entirety of the article, its a good read, the only major aspect of it that I DIRECTLY disagree with is what she said about objectivity.
"my assertion that being on the outside looking in doesn't make one more objective; it merely provides a different perspective."
Being on the outside looking in is is one of the defining aspects of objectivity. Its why we don't allow people directly involved with the victims or the prosecuted to have a hand in a investigation. Its why we don't let the victim's family decide the punishment for a convicted murderer.
This isn't to say that a man in the context of this argument IS objective. Because in such a far reaching topic, that affects EVERYONE, objectivity is literally impossible. The man in this case isn't actually on the outside, he's just got a different pair of glasses on.
e: shoulda just gone with fuckcrypt's example and done the last bit by saying "google derailing for dummies"
NO, no you shouldn't have.
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Minor correction: it wasn't a rumor, the pope actually was part of the Hitler youth.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG0MKzkaYN0
I can't believe these people exist.
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I meant, among only black people, Like, if a black person said nigger to another black person it'd probably be ok but I'm sure the occasional awkward moment would arise, in comparison to nigga, which would be accepted more often. Of course I've only heard this from various random black people, so I suppose my source is arguably questionable.
They're the same word. The perceived difference is just a fantasy of popular culture.
I know there are fucks that blame the woman for their own rape, but I've literally never met someone like this. So so its hard to imagine they are so common. But maybe they are, all I have is anecdotal evidence (personal experience). I've also yet to actually HEAR catcalls outside of a movie or TV show. But again I know it occurs. My inexperience with these 2 aspects of your argument does make it difficult to respond with anything. I can't judge cat calls unless I actually hear some real ones. I can assume that those that do them are rude twats though.
If you do some research, you'll very easily find a lot of evidence for it. You can't really use anecdotal evidence in this case, for two reasons. One is that it's an incredibly limited sample size that probably doesn't reflect the average populace, and because it's your personal experience, you're probably blind to a lot of things. You've grown up with them and live with them every day, so you're conditioned to accept them without even noticing them.
There's been a lot of good writing on this, a good place to start is http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/ (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/)
This is US-centric, I don't know where you live, but a lot of these things are applicable outside of the US as well.
edit: I'm way more interested in what vell has to say so I'm not gonna go through your post, but one thing that I wanted to point out:
But I will say emotion may fuel the argument and is basically the only importance to any argument, that one feels strongly about it, but it has the worrisome potential of being illogical, destructive, and unfair if used as part of an argument itself. And that emotion should be divorced from the actual deciding arguments.
Emotion is a powerful driving force, and you have to consider for a moment that it doesn't just come out of nowhere. When there's an emotional force, it's worth examining where it comes from because it usually implies a deep sense of injustice. As is the case here. When you say that "emotion should be divorced from 'deciding arguments'" (whatever that is), you're being pretty dismissive of that sense of injustice.
Nobody's going to doubt that you need valid arguments based on one's best appraisal of the facts to seriously debate any issue, but by pointing this out you're implying that when there's emotion in place, that emotion is probably going to replace valid arguments at some point. I see this implication being made quite often, and always preemptively—before it actually occurs.
More importantly, there's a distinct and obvious difference in roles here that has to be recognized. And Farren, you should read this too because this applies to you in particular.
You and I are part of a demographic group that has historically oppressed the group that Vellfire belongs to. It's extremely easy for you and me to say "let's not get emotional here" because we're perfectly fine standing where we are. You have to recognize that before you dismiss someone based on a perception of irrationality.
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oh heck two greedy italians is back. best cookery programme ever
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if you think we're post racist theres a recent book called "The new jim crow" that you might want to read the back cover of, you can do it at barns and nobles
more importantly... i was thinking about catas' posts and i was finkin'... uhh idk it was this idea of an actual roguelike (like adom or nethack) but youre thrown into dungeons or whatever and you have a bro companion/a bro with you who comments to everything all the time. all the messages are bro-talk too.
sounds like mat brinkman
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brobot
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/brobot.webp)
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You know, it would really be nice if men could be more openminded when taking part in conversations like this. Particularly Farren: I don't think you've really approached this with the intention of listening. You need to realize that your viewpoint is overwhelmingly common among men; you just don't appreciate the full scope of the subject by virtue of not having been on the receiving end of the oppression.
I mean, I see this so often. Men just want to dominate discussions on feminism from the moment they step in. Immediately, it needs to be all about them, and their feelings. That's not what empathy is about. Empathy is about suspending your own judgment and trying to view things from someone else's perspective so as to try and appreciate the reasons for their feelings.
So when a woman mentions she's hurt by use of the word "bitch", don't counter by saying "well, it's not used that often, and women themselves use it too, and it's been normalized through popular culture, and I don't mean anything misogynistic by using it", or anything like that. Say "let me try to understand where you're coming from so I can try to avoid hurting people."
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compassion 101
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Say "let me try to understand where you're coming from so I can try to avoid hurting people."
You are asking too much of humanity, not men. When people are pissed, they are going TO TRY TO HURT the object of their perceived wrong, regardless of who else it hurts in the long run or how they are harming the world as a whole by normalizing 'bitch'.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2131215/Eddy-Brown-Birmingham-bard-thorn-Barcelona-side.html
football used to be really cool
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You know, it would really be nice if men could be more openminded when taking part in conversations like this. Particularly Farren: I don't think you've really approached this with the intention of listening. You need to realize that your viewpoint is overwhelmingly common among men; you just don't appreciate the full scope of the subject by virtue of not having been on the receiving end of the oppression.
my family was poor when I was growing up, I was ostracized for being an intellectual and not knowing it, looked down for being young and automatically considered immature by my now much older peers. But yeah because I'm not black or female or gay I don't know what it feels like to be treated like shit? That argument is so profoundly ignorant and I cannot believe you two are sticking to it so adamantly.
I really think you don't understand. I know there is still racism. I am not denying that. I'm saying society no longer accepts racism in an oppressive form like it used to. So some of the anti-mysogonist, anti-race, anti-sexuality arguments you people use sometimes are outdated.
Modern white straight men cannot have informed opinions on gender, race, and sexuality. That is pretty much the angle I'm talking about. To say that you'd have to say black men don't know what it feels like for arab men to be oppressed. Or gay men don't know what its like for straight women to be oppressed. Or women don't know what its like for black men to be oppressed.
You via your very own method of thinking have formed opinions, you can't say your own opinions on the shit doesn't matter. There is a thing called empathy, it is real. One can be empathetic to a cause or kind of people even more so than their own people sometimes. That shit is possible. It does happen.
You are not empathetic if you do not express it. If you do not show that you think or feel a certain way by definition to others it is non-existant. You're saying shut your mouth and listen when enough isn't being said by alot of people being hurt. You're muddling white guilt with empathy.
So when a woman mentions she's hurt by use of the word "bitch", don't counter by saying "well, it's not used that often, and women themselves use it too, and it's been normalized through popular culture, and I don't mean anything misogynistic by using it", or anything like that. Say "let me try to understand where you're coming from so I can try to avoid hurting people."
I'm not defending anyones right to say bitch. I never was. Its a terrible word to use, people still do it though. I'm trying to say YOU CANNOT CONTROL THE WORLD AROUND YOU SO IF YOU CANT EDUCATE IGNORE!!?!? This is something people learn in gradeschool and its one of the most important lessons you could ever learn. Fuck I will admit I use the word bitch in an indirect manner sometimes without thinking. I'm not trying to dominate anything but when all that woman has to say is "its hurtful you don't understand" and not even contemplate or discuss anything else. Guess what???
Really you two are dissapointing the fuck out of me. It seems recently you've taken this route of anti-intellectualism and you fail to even aknowledge that there is an alternate way of thinking except your own narrow concept of feminism and race relations which is pretty shallow and anti-progressive. I specifically remember you two were not like that before.
You are asking too much of humanity
This, people are just as capable if not more so of terrible shit than good. Also people generally refuse to think on this level. You have to aknowledge and accept that. It is unfair and unreasonable but that is life and getting upset about words is just gonna make you feel like shit. I'm not saying don't care I'm saying don't get emotionally driven by it.
I see ALOT of that between dada and vellfare about this stuff, which is counter-productive.
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You are asking too much of humanity, not men. When people are pissed, they are going TO TRY TO HURT the object of their perceived wrong, regardless of who else it hurts in the long run or how they are harming the world as a whole by normalizing 'bitch'.
well if thats all cool then im going to hurt you thanks
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When people are pissed, they are going TO TRY TO HURT the object of their perceived wrong, regardless of who else it hurts in the long run
no you're talking about neanderthals
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brobot
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/mycoolsite666/brobot.webp)
this man is vomiting the future.
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we will reach the new age by forceful expulsions of future technologies from selected bros stomach and guts
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my family was poor when I was growing up, I was ostracized for being an intellectual and not knowing it, looked down for being young and automatically considered immature by my now much older peers. But yeah because I'm not black or female or gay I don't know what it feels like to be treated like shit? That argument is so profoundly ignorant and I cannot believe you two are sticking to it so adamantly.
no, because you're not a woman you don't know what misogyny is. because you're not black you don't know what racism is. because you're not gay you don't know what homophobia is.
sure, you may know what it's like to be treated like shit, but that doesn't mean you know a thing about other people's suffering. don't act like you know it all.
I'm not trying to dominate anything but when all that woman has to say is "its hurtful you don't understand" and not even contemplate or discuss anything else. Guess what???
No, you're definitely not listening. Here you are again, going on about your own past, about how mistreated you were, and therefore you understand what women must be going through. That's not empathy. You're saying "yeah, I get it", but you don't. And here you are, again admitting that you just don't really appreciate people's emotional pleas. They don't mean anything to you. You need rock-solid argumentation (as if that hasn't been given; plenty has been said) as if other people's feelings on the matter don't really have a purpose.
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You are asking too much of humanity, not men. When people are pissed, they are going TO TRY TO HURT the object of their perceived wrong, regardless of who else it hurts in the long run or how they are harming the world as a whole by normalizing 'bitch'.
I'm not asking humanity, I'm asking you. "Humanity" is an abstract concept that you can't have a conversation with. I'm having a conversation with you.
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@ vell
The handle of rape cases is tied into law. Its handled by police officers, courtsystems, human resources. Alot of those institutions should be reformed not only because of womens rights but because of how they handle a whole slew of shit.
Yes women are guilty of perpetuating their own sexism. When a stripper gets a job as a stripper it is ultimately her choice. Yes the job is infact in existance because of the mysogony of men but it is her choice to choose to do that and it is her choice not to choose to speak out against it. Alot of actresses and pop stars do the same kind of shit. When Brittany Spears wears a thong and shakes her ass on tv or Jennifer Lopez doing the same thing or an actress starring as a morally declined prostitute that is that woman ultimately making that choice to perpetuate a perception of cultural mysogony.
It is ultimately up to women to make that choice. You can rule men out of that. Thats right. But for men showing their support and confirming that; said treatment of women is fucked up. To tell them they don't know because they haven't been oppressed the same as you is so ignorant I cannot even accurately articulate it.
If you know what its like to suffer you can understand suffering. If I don't know what its liked to get stabbed with a knife I don't know what its like to have an open bleeding gaping wound? That argument is a fallacy.
Goddamn dude. Go ask some normal working women how they deal with mysogony. If they hurt inside and it puts them into a constant despair or if they infact use it to strengthen themselves. Guess what they'll tell you.
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Yep it your own fault.
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Nah I'm saying its much harder to stop it if the ones being victimized are perpetuating it, that is unacceptable. Now you're just being a condescending dick again and I'm gonna stop this because its pointless.
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Nah I'm saying its much harder to stop it if the ones being victimized are perpetuating it, that is unacceptable. Now you're just being a condescending dick again and I'm gonna stop this because its pointless.
No, you're just not listening. It's precisely what I said. Go read my post again where I tell specifically you that you're not interested in what others who actually know what misogyny is (eg Vellfire) have to say. "Hey, I'm a guy and let me tell you what I have to say about feminism. I think you women should just kinda let it go a little, you know?"
Having had a shitty or poor family or anything you might want to bring to the table doesn't mean you understand what misogyny or racism or homophobia are. It just don't.
And to return to the point you made: what you're talking about is internalized misogyny, which can be seen as women trying to survive in a deeply misogynistic society by simply acting as they're conditioned to. They do so because if they don't, society rejects them. In much the same way that men push back and get angry and nervous whenever something like feminism comes up on a forum.
edit: and fyi I'm not saying I get it either. Because I don't. Which is why the main thing that we men gotta do, if we're serious about helping people, is listen and try to empathize rather than suggesting we have a clue of what it's like to live under a massive systematic gender-based society-wide oppression.
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@ vell
The handle of rape cases is tied into law. Its handled by police officers, courtsystems, human resources. Alot of those institutions should be reformed not only because of womens rights but because of how they handle a whole slew of shit.
Yes women are guilty of perpetuating their own sexism. When a stripper gets a job as a stripper it is ultimately her choice. Yes the job is infact in existance because of the mysogony of men but it is her choice to choose to do that and it is her choice not to choose to speak out against it. Alot of actresses and pop stars do the same kind of shit. When Brittany Spears wears a thong and shakes her ass on tv or Jennifer Lopez doing the same thing or an actress starring as a morally declined prostitute that is that woman ultimately making that choice to perpetuate a perception of cultural mysogony.
a lot of my friends have been strippers and i find it very offensive for you to imply here that that equals them consenting to degrading treatment. As for your first comment, I agree with you that the police handle it poorly. you might find it interesting to watch this film about factual cases of rapes committed by the police. http://vimeo.com/23282610
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e: there were like 7 posts while i was typing this so i might have missed something or repeated something w/e
my family was poor when I was growing up, I was ostracized for being an intellectual and not knowing it, looked down for being young and automatically considered immature by my now much older peers. But yeah because I'm not black or female or gay I don't know what it feels like to be treated like shit? That argument is so profoundly ignorant and I cannot believe you two are sticking to it so adamantly.
You don't get it. It's not that you don't know what it's like to be treated badly. You don't know what it's like to be treated badly in this way, and trying to compare your experiences of poor treatment with that of a woman or a black person or a gay person facing SYSTEMATIC (this is the key word here) oppression is comparing apples and oranges.
I really think you don't understand. I know there is still racism. I am not denying that. I'm saying society no longer accepts racism in an oppressive form like it used to. So some of the anti-mysogonist, anti-race, anti-sexuality arguments you people use sometimes are outdated.
I really don't know what to say except that this isn't the case. Maybe it's not as obvious to you. Subtle oppression is just as oppressive as shouting nigger at someone. It's MORE oppressive because it flies under the radar. Here's a simple example: have you ever seen a little boy picking on or even hitting or what have you a little girl, and the parents tell the little girl "oh, that's just his way of telling you he likes you"? That's total sexist bs. You're reinforcing the idea in the girl's mind that it's okay for her to be treated badly by a guy if he likes her. Almost NO ONE has a problem hearing this though. We're so used to hearing that exact line that nobody questions it. How about the fact that almost every time someone interacts with, say, the same little girl, one of the first things that comes out of their mouth is "oh, what a beautiful little girl you are!" They're learning that the very first thing anyone notices about them is their appearance. "Boys will be boys"? How many times do you hear that? Do you see any of these things being publicly unacceptable?
No, because this sort of misogyny is built deeply into our culture. It doesn't matter if shouting slurs is unacceptable, this other stuff is and it's far more dangerous than something as blatant as a slur. To try to act like we're beyond this stuff is insane. I'd even argue that slurs aren't horribly looked down upon considering how normal it is to hear gay or fag used as an insult on a daily basis. It's PRETTY acceptable!
Modern white straight men cannot have informed opinions on gender, race, and sexuality. That is pretty much the angle I'm talking about. To say that you'd have to say black men don't know what it feels like for arab men to be oppressed. Or gay men don't know what its like for straight women to be oppressed. Or women don't know what its like for black men to be oppressed.
Gay men DON'T know what it's like to be a straight woman. There are a lot of misogynist gay men out there. Quite a few of them fall into the trap of thinking that because they're also part of an oppressed group that they understand all the other oppressed groups too. Women of color are frequently disregarded in white-dominated feminist groups. It's BECAUSE people like you won't step aside and say "hey, I haven't lived through your experiences and I am admitting I don't understand them" that we have this problem. THAT is what makes you an informed person. You admit that you don't know what it's like, and you ask. You let the person tell you their experiences and you don't try to inject your own into it.
You via your very own method of thinking have formed opinions, you can't say your own opinions on the shit doesn't matter. There is a thing called empathy, it is real. One can be empathetic to a cause or kind of people even more so than their own people sometimes. That shit is possible. It does happen.
You are not empathetic if you do not express it. If you do not show that you think or feel a certain way by definition to others it is non-existant. You're saying shut your mouth and listen when enough isn't being said by alot of people being hurt. You're muddling white guilt with empathy.
We're ASKING you to show empathy. The problem is how you're doing it. What you did was say "hey, the word 'bitch' hurts you? It hurts me too! I hate hearing it!" The problem is, you're missing the difference in how it affects us. You're trying to compare your experience to mine when mine is VITAL to the problem. You want to show empathy? Try understanding my feelings and my point of view WITHOUT trying to insert yours. When a gay person tells you how a word like faggot affects them, don't tell them how it affects you (like EDC did, which again I have to emphasize that he knows better now). Just listen to them. Make it about THEIR feelings. That's the problem, you're taking the oppressed group's issue and making it about yourself, how it affects you. You're saying that a problem is only worth considering if it hurts you too. Don't try to compare your experiences to a marginalized group, instead listen to their experiences. Talk about what you can do to avoid this problem in the future (like agreeing to not use slurs and trying to educate others), but don't shift the focus away from the person you're attempting to empathize with. This is absolutely key here.
I'm trying to say YOU CANNOT CONTROL THE WORLD AROUND YOU SO IF YOU CANT EDUCATE IGNORE!!?!? This is something people learn in gradeschool and its one of the most important lessons you could ever learn. Fuck I will admit I use the word bitch in an indirect manner sometimes without thinking. I'm not trying to dominate anything but when all that woman has to say is "its hurtful you don't understand" and not even contemplate or discuss anything else. Guess what???
THIS is where empathy comes in. All a woman SHOULD have to say is "it's hurtful". By the way, women do try to explain how it is hurtful. They'll tell you it's dismissive or dehumanizing or something along those lines. But that cannot be divorced from their experience, and you cannot possibly get the full picture without that experience. Until you live your entire life being shoved into this idea of what a woman is supposed to be and trying to cope with that and fight against it, you cannot 100% understand what a word like bitch does to you emotionally. You can however listen and taken women seriously when they tell you it's hurtful. Sure, some people won't. But you said you wanted to. You said you wanted to listen and you wanted to empathize, so do it. When you accidentally let the word slip, apologize.
Really you two are dissapointing the fuck out of me. It seems recently you've taken this route of anti-intellectualism and you fail to even aknowledge that there is an alternate way of thinking except your own narrow concept of feminism and race relations which is pretty shallow and anti-progressive. I specifically remember you two were not like that before.
This, people are just as capable if not more so of terrible shit than good. Also people generally refuse to think on this level. You have to aknowledge and accept that. It is unfair and unreasonable but that is life and getting upset about words is just gonna make you feel like shit. I'm not saying don't care I'm saying don't get emotionally driven by it.
I don't think peopel are more capable of bad than good. I think the problem is that we've given the bad so few consequences. Nothing happens to you if you call a woman a bitch. Nobody yells at you for the most part. In order to make people better, we have to let them know when they're doing bad. We're not going to reach everybody but it's hard when people who say they're on board start trying to tear apart every little thing and get frustrated when they're forced to consider that other people's experiences are not their own. I mean look at this, you literally are NOT trying to empathize despite saying you are. You're still referring to it as "getting upset about words". You honestly DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I mean you're proving my point right now that unless you are the target of those words you cannot understand the ways in which they hurt. You can understand THE FACT that they hurt but you cannot truly comprehend how because they don't hurt you. I can't implant my emotional responses into you. That's why you need to "shut up and listen" because you're trying to dictate how I should respond to things emotionally instead of giving a shit why I feel this way or HOW I feel.
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Goddamn dude. Go ask some normal working women how they deal with mysogony. If they hurt inside and it puts them into a constant despair or if they infact use it to strengthen themselves. Guess what they'll tell you.
just shut the fuck up dude you honestly aren't attempting to empathize if you're pulling this bullshit. this isn't worth arguing anymore you don't give a single shit what women feel.
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oh wow. did you edit that in later? because I totally missed that.
I'd just like to say yes Farren you really just don't give a damn about any of this. that quote just proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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i mean seriously just fuck me if you honestly think that's an okay thing to say you haven't learned a single goddamn thing in all of this
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Goddamn dude. Go ask some normal working women how they deal with mysogony. If they hurt inside and it puts them into a constant despair or if they infact use it to strengthen themselves. Guess what they'll tell you.
You really don't care about helping resolve this issue or actually listening to what people have to say. Your line of argument has thus become "just let it make you stronger". Really, Farren? Is that what you'd tell a black guy suffering from racism in the workplace? Is that what you'd tell a woman who got raped and can't get her day in court? Is that what you'd tell a gay person who got physically assaulted by a homophobe?
All of this effort that Vellfire is putting in has basically gone to waste because of this sanctimonious "just keep your head down" attitude of yours. I hope someone else who's lurking reads it and finds it insightful, because you're not listening.
There's a great quote by Dolores Ibárruri, from during the Spanish Civil War. She said: "It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees." You're telling Vellfire that she should just live and crawl upon her knees. "Just stop arguing and being so upset and getting so hysterical and just accept that society considers you a second-class citizen and you'll feel a lot better."
I'm really sorry for having to draw this probably offensive conclusion, but that's not the attitude of someone who cares.
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You want to know why you can never understand what it's like to be a woman? Here it is, summed up in one little Margaret Atwood quote:
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
It is impossible for you to understand what it's like to be raised in this mindset. Sorry.
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I'm really sorry for having to draw this probably offensive conclusion, but that's not the attitude of someone who cares.
this is an improvement I guess but also way overcompensating
a lot of my friends have been strippers and i find it very offensive for you to imply here that that equals them consenting to degrading treatment. As for your first comment, I agree with you that the police handle it poorly. you might find it interesting to watch this film about factual cases of rapes committed by the police. http://vimeo.com/23282610
pigs must die
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i feel physically sick after watching that
holy shit
i'm not sure i fully understand the police footage though, why the hell were they forcibly undressing that woman? i think i am being extremely naive, was it abuse of power/humiliation or did they do it with intent to sexually abuse? it was extremely hard to watch
kill all cops
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ugh
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a lot of my friends have been strippers and i find it very offensive for you to imply here that that equals them consenting to degrading treatment. As for your first comment, I agree with you that the police handle it poorly. you might find it interesting to watch this film about factual cases of rapes committed by the police. http://vimeo.com/23282610 (http://vimeo.com/23282610)
I'm saying the occupation itself is degrading to women. It objectifies them. Its not a personal attack on strippers, I like strippers and I don't let the fact that its degrading to them stop me from enjoying it. I don't specifically go to oogle at women though either.
No, you're just not listening. It's precisely what I said. Go read my post again where I tell specifically you that you're not interested in what others who actually know what misogyny is (eg Vellfire) have to say
Nope. I talk to women about mysogony all the time. I don't care what vellfare thinks about mysogony because I think her just like you, have both adapted these rigid viewpoints that you refuse to change. Because I don't accept what SHE thinks does not mean I haven't formed my viewpoints FROM OTHER women.
this isn't worth arguing anymore you don't give a single shit what women feel.
You're identifying yourself with all women. I don't identify myself with all men. You are getting offended because I think you get too easily defensive about something that is not as definite black/white as you make it out to be. Don't tell me how I fucking feel I'm not telling you how you feel I'm telling you to take shit with a grain of salt. This is specifically YOU and DADA. I'm not saying all women when they get mistreated should just not care. Thats not what I'm saying. If you personally try to change a person and you can't don't get upset when you can't.
The good parts of society and alot of modern thinking men themselves are not these heartless monsters you're making them out to be. You're both trying to devalue the opinions of an important subsect. That alienates alot of people and support for womens rights. Fuck the father who wants to teach his daughter the depth of her own personal value as a woman because her mothers not there. Fuck the older brother that wants to teach his sister that she can be a strong independant woman even though the tv tells her otherwise. Or the guy who wants to teach his friend she can value herself even though many other men have shown otherwise.
these are the kinds of people you're alienating with your self-rightious bullshit. All I'm asking is for you to be a little less preachy about some stupid pamphlet or conventional feminist jargon and think for your self and treat any person on an individual basis not what you fucking read on the internet or in a book.
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"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
really???
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People are people and people do terrible godforsaken shit and if you care enough you can see that regardless of who you are.
I idolize women I worship women I think women are beautiful and the stronger the woman the more I love them. Its that refusal to think that wall that copout that reason to not be strong and resilient and telling yourself society is always going to be against you that can and will do more damage than any mysogonist asshole ever could.
Conventional feminism is a copout. Identifying yourself as a woman and saying I as a woman deserve this __________ excludes all the other people being underminded. Saying I as a HUMAN BEING deserve this ___________ does so much more and is so much more profound.
Goddamn dude. Go ask some normal working women how they deal with mysogony. If they hurt inside and it puts them into a constant despair or if they infact use it to strengthen themselves. Guess what they'll tell you.
I said this because reading cases of women being mistreated and conforming to archaic feminist belief systems is not enough. There are women out there who have been raped or have been beaten, cat called, oggled at, devalued that deal with this shit in the most immaculate manner and have NEVER studied feminism and do not care to. I don't care what one person who (with a MANS help no less) is going to come onto a website full of men and tell them they don't know a goddamn thing and can never know a goddamn thing because she's a woman and since she's the only woman really saying shit thats it oh well shut the fuck up I'm right. That is totally immature and irresponsible.
I honestly wish ensian would post about it more. She'd prolly completely disagree with me too but she seems to be more articulate and willing to read what the hell is said instead of spouting the same thing over and over again in a condescending matter of fact way that is so irritating and intellectually void. You're refusing to even engage anything I'm trying to say and just pick out differenting points to call me an ignorant asshole.
That is the problem with conventional race, gender, and sex studies and classification. Personal identification over problem resolution. Um lets keep our own little group where we say and assume outsiders don't know a fucking thing because even though pain is universal they don't know the method of OUR pain. Our small little group is going to pursue the objective of resolving the predjudice causing said pain by telling the same people we say don't know a fucking thing about us to not treat us with discontent. How in the hell do you not see the pointlessness in this? These things can't be fixed or resolved without unification and acceptance from both sides especially the ones seeking progressive change.
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Scout Bro perished on Floor 621 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Stalagmite. He had zero tomes and [2] potions. His final thought was of [eggs].
ON THE STREETS TONIGHT, THE KILLER STALKS....
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can't quote and reply to every single thing you said so i'm stickin to the big bits right here since it probably won't matter anyway
The good parts of society and alot of modern thinking men themselves are not these heartless monsters you're making them out to be.
Dude, everything I have talked about has been at the systematic level. You have this idea that when I talk about misogyny that I mean YOU. I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about SOCIETY. I'm not making men out to be heartless monsters, I never did that. What I have done is shown how society is horrible to women. Most of the people perpetuating this don't know they're doing it. It's embedded in their brains from birth. A lot of really nice people are sexist as fuck because that's the culture we have. That's what I'm fighting against, so stop painting me as part of the KILL ALL MEN brigade.
e: here's a derailing for dummies quote about this:
When you are Privileged, “similar” experiences simply do not happen on an equal footing because they do not otherwise reflect marginalisation.
This doesn't mean NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENED TO YOU, it means it isn't a result of marginalization. I'm sorry about your childhood, I really am. But, it didn't happen because you're a marginalized person.
You are getting offended because I think you get too easily defensive about something that is not as definite black/white as you make it out to be. Don't tell me how I fucking feel I'm not telling you how you feel I'm telling you to take shit with a grain of salt.
I'm "getting offended" and "being defensive" because you honestly got REALLY UPSET over the idea that hey, you might not understand things from a woman's point of view. That's what I've been arguing with you. There is no reason for this to be something you get angry about. I don't get upset when a black person tells me that I don't understand because I'm not black. That's OBVIOUS. Why is it something you wanted to fight about?
That alienates alot of people and support for womens rights. Fuck the father who wants to teach his daughter the depth of her own personal value as a woman because her mothers not there. Fuck the older brother that wants to teach his sister that she can be a strong independant woman even though the tv tells her otherwise. Or the guy who wants to teach his friend she can value herself even though many other men have shown otherwise.
I shouldn't be stepping on eggshells to appeal to men in order to get them on board with women's rights. You know why? Because supporting women's rights is the right thing to do. What I say on it does not change that. I also never said anything against men spreading feminism. That's uh THEIR MAIN ROLE in feminism! The idea here is, men aren't involved in shaping the movement. They shouldn't be. Men literally have no role in women deciding the terms of their emancipation. What men do as feminist allies is educate others (typically other men). They get their friends involved. But ultimately men's job is to take a backseat and let the women handle things because this is about the women. This is why I don't need you telling me how I need to be advocating feminism. I don't need you telling me which of my arguments you like and which ones you don't. I don't need you telling me to be nicer or to be less alienating because it is not my job to placate you. You don't tell me to be less preachy or be less self-righteous or whatever you want to call it, because that is not your place.
really??? my mom beat the fucking shit out of me when I was a young child because of a cycle of physical and sexual abuse she recieved as a child and could not come to terms with. So without any control over her anger she took that shit out on me.
She shoved my fucking nose in a corner until it bled when I was four fucking years old, don't tell me what it is to be completely defenseless and scared for your life.
Women are just as capable of indiscrimanate violence and hatred as any man this is stereotypical horseshit.
You completely misunderstood the meaning of that quote. Of course women can be violent. It's about how we are socialized. And again, this is not about you. This is about society. Women are essentially raised to be slightly afraid at all times. I'm gonna shamelessly steal some posts from SA here:
I remember reading one of the previous feminism threads, and it made me realize something that seems almost strange to me: most men don't have a constant awareness of their own vulnerability. They are not on alert in public the same way that I've pretty much always been. I have to admit, I don't have that many spaces where I feel absolutely safe from harm or harassment. Most men just don't share that fear. That must be really nice.
This is a really hard perspective to share with men, too, because most only become hyper-aware of their surroundings if something has made them paranoid (like overtly aggressive behavior from someone else). So when you say "No, even when I'm at a bar with people who I know, I need to be hyper-aware of my surroundings because it takes about three seconds for a situation to switch from normal and fun to sexual harassment."
Some guys dismiss it by assuming that you choose to act that way since something is wrong with you rather than by acknowledging the social factors that make that sort of paranoia understandable. I'm not saying that women are never comfortable in any situation, but explaining how threatening being alone with a male stranger can be is difficult because unless that guy is giving them outright vibes that they might be dangerous or unstable, men are generally immune to that.
Kind of like that elevator debate that came up when Dawkins (I think) made comments dismissing a woman's discomfort with a man who joined her alone in an elevator at 3 am and tried to get her to come back to his room. It had to be carefully explained that a situation where you are being hit on by a stranger and there is no immediate escape route can feel threatening to some women because they have no idea if this guy is a sweetheart who wants to have coffee or someone who will hit the "stop" button between floors and assault them.
I'm gonna venture a guess that when you get in an elevator there's not much fear that the guy might assault you, no matter how nice or weak or whatever he looks. That's something I do have to deal with. Even with guys I trust, there is still a moment where you think "this could turn ugly". This is something men in general do not experience. And even if for some reason they do, you cannot divorce these things from the female experience. The female experience is by default going to have SOME things in common with the male experience (because we're both human), but they're seen in completely different ways. Just like a woman's experience isn't going to be the same as a trans woman's experience or a trans man's experience, even though trans people share a lot of the same problems. The key is instead of trying to argue that your experience is the same, just listen to the other person's experience and don't make it all about you.
what the fuck are you going to tell me are you going to quote another old lady who didn't know what the hell she was talking about?
Dude you're literally talking about Margaret Atwood here, maybe you should read up on her before you dismiss her as an "old lady who didn't know what she's talking about". That's really fucking condescending man.
Conventional feminism is a copout. Identifying yourself as a woman and saying I as a woman deserve this __________ excludes all the other people being underminded. Saying I as a HUMAN BEING deserve this ___________ does so much more and is so much more profound.
That'll work when women start being treated as human beings. I forget who said it but there's an old quote that's something like "feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings". When women are treated as humans rather than objects, then maybe we can start saying that. And maybe you shouldn't tell "conventional feminism" what to do.
I said this because reading cases of women being mistreated and conforming to archaic feminist belief systems is not enough. There are women out there who have been raped or have been beaten, cat called, oggled at, devalued that deal with this shit in the most immaculate manner and have NEVER studied feminism and do not care to.
You don't have to study feminism to be upset at the way a patriarchal society treats you. The thing is, you've just made a decision here. You've decided that women should take this oppression in stride. Here's the thing--not every woman can do that. VERY VERY few can do that. Read more women's experiences, man. Go read skepchick, go read feministe, go read shakesville. Read the daily experiences of women. There was a conversation in SA's feminism thread recently about how something like a catcall can ruin your whole day. The person who did it probably forgot about it right after, but it stays in a woman's mind much longer. It makes you uncomfortable, it makes you upset, and it is a reminder that you are a second class citizen. A second thought. You're there for men's enjoyment, not because of your own value. And here you are, ~*~ a man ~*~ telling women that they shouldn't be upset by this. That they should let it make them stronger. You're telling women to make their oppression a positive thing. There are some gay people who don't have a problem with the word faggot. There are also some that get called that a few too many times and kill themselves over it. Were they too weak? Should they just have taken it in stride, grown from it? Or should people have NOT DONE THAT TO THEM? You know what you should do? Fight against this. How about instead of sitting here trying to tell me how I should fight my own goddamn oppression correctly (i.e., to your suiting) you donate to a domestic abuse shelter. Donate to planned parenthood. Call out your friend the next time he says the word bitch or faggot or nigger. Make sure everyone you know knows that this stuff isn't okay instead of sitting here trying to tell me that conventional feminism (which you don't seem to know much about if you think Margaret Atwood is some dumb old lady) is a copout.
e: And as for why ~*~ a man ~*~ is helping me argue with you? Because we're on a site with barely any women and it's not right for me to be the only one fighting for this. Dada is doing exactly what men in feminism should do--help educate other men.
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Some more posts from SA that are relevant here:
And as for the tone argument, it's not her job to be some kind of ambassador of the feminist movement to men. It's not any woman's job to do that unless they feel like it's a good idea. And some of them might, but it's not useful, or even appropriate in this context, to get offended if a woman doesn't want to meet a man halfway to get their support. I realize why this is counter-intuitive, but it does make sense. The alternative is effectively to say, "you owe me an explanation for this."
AlphaDog, usually aggressive defense of feminist positions is supported because traditionally women have been chastised for defending anything aggressively and told to tone themselves down so no one would mistake them for "bitches", ignoring the point that being assertive should not be seen as unacceptable for women or grounds for dismissing the points that they make.
It's basically refusing the argument "You should make your points in a way that matches your gender role a bit better so people don't see you refusing your gender role and get offended by it."
As for your question, yes, basically women have to deal frequently with men saying "you should do this" and so bringing that kind of attitude to the feminist movement is a bad thing, but listening to them and taking their points and contributing to implementation of feminist ideals is a cool thing to do because then you're helping without trying to force your perspective into the conversation. If a woman straight up asks you a question or wants advice, that's not somehow anti-feminist, it's just bad to go into it acting like you know better because, again, that already happens a ton in everyday life.
Talking to women on this issue is not "bad". What's bad is assuming that you know more about this issue than women and presuming that what you have to say is more important than what they have to say. None of the feminists in this thread are trying to make it a women only dialogue, but our willingness to engage is somewhat dependent on men listening to us and not talking at us.
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>An unidentified CAN lies on the floor
cast INDENT
>I do not recognize this command
cast IDENT bro
>The can is a BEASTLT
pick up can bro
>You have obtained a BEASTLT. You hear the sound of stone grinding on stone to the south.
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Thinking about how you said 'bitch' is an insult to men in that its telling them to stop being like a women, I realize though, that isn't the entire story. Because Women get told not to act like men, and that acting like a man when you are a woman is shameful. In fact this kind of goes with what you are saying. It obviously doesn't perfectly translate, but calling a woman a dyke/bitch(aggressive)/cunt or something could be argued to at least be similar to calling a man a bitch in that its shaming them for not fitting their gender roles. Rather than bitch being on its own for just shaming men for being like women.
The whole 'hetero-normative' thing. But then, this seems arbitrary specifically in the case of gay men (but not gay women) in that its ok to be a feminine man (not your normal gender profile) if you are a gay guy. So I'm just saying its not all about sexists saying women are subhuman but saying that people should stick to their currently understood roles, which seem to be Female, Male and Gay Male and not to break from them. Like, my brother for instance, he doesn't hate gay men, but he commonly brings up that he pretty clearly has a distaste for the "metrosexual". The straight guy acting like/looking like a woman/gay man.
I think, because of this, its less about the 'heteronormative' and now its just the 'normative'. Sure, so some groups I'm wrong, many still don't like ANY man acting like a woman at all, but the more popular culture seems to have integrated the 3rd option. "The Gay and feminine Man" As an acceptable classification of person. With the "Gay and masculine Woman" still not quite acceptable, nor the "Straight and Feminine Man" or the "Straight and Masculine Woman" acceptable at all.
It kind of reminds me of a webcomic http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/ (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/) Its entire point seems to be a distaste for the recent popularity of the 'bishie', especially the current arc. And a focus on men being MANLY and buff. Though don't get me wrong I still love the webcomic anyway.
Is my analysis accurate? Or am I missing something here?
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I think the issue with "it's okay to be feminine as a man as long as you're gay" is that faggot is still an insult. By calling someone a faggot or a bitch, you're telling them that they're acting like a homosexual or like a woman, and you're saying that's not okay to be. It's still heteronormative. And of course, the word faggot is still frequently thrown at gay men and dyke frequently thrown at lesbians. In general society it's not okay to be masculine as a woman even if you're a lesbian. Lesbians in particular have the problem of still being horribly objectified by men. Frequently men see lesbians and think "three way" instead of thinking "women that do not want me at all". They get harassed on a daily basis. Gay men are ostracized just as bad if not worse (probably worse, but who has it worse isn't really worth fighting over in this scenario since both need to not have it bad AT ALL). The issue with gay men is that because we live in a patriarchy, a man must adhere to "what it means to be man" (i.e. hypermasculine heterosexuality) or else he's worthless. While I think deviating from gender norms is becoming MORE acceptable, I think you're jumping the gun by making a claim that it's okay to be feminine as a gay man in a society that still HEAVILY oppresses them. I think that we're working up to a point where you might be right, but we aren't nearly there yet.
e: If you want to think about how homosexuals are accepted or not in our society, check out this article:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202)
We're not quite up to the point you seem to be describing in your post yet. Suicides of gay teens (and homosexuals in general, but teens are hit especially hard because being a teen is bad enough anyway) is a serious problem in America, it's far from a fringe issue. That's what the It Gets Better campaign is all about. While Dan Savage is a pretty big shithead, the campaign itself is pretty good I think.
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Had to look up Dan Savage. I assume he's a shithead because of the transphobic comments he's made that I read about?
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I try to avoid discussions like this over the past year, mostly since the ANTI-RELIGION ARGUMENT that ended with me being insulted by a couple of people, then them telling me to calm down and not take things so seriously.
This site is a place I actually come to hang out, so prejudices here really upset me a lot more than other places. I go to the Daily Mail forums, the old Sun Forums before they shut down, even in the past the Stormfront forums to argue/debate/discuss these kind of issues, but I expect terrible opinions there because they're terrible places. When I encounter them here, my attitude so far has been to try to shut them off so I don't completely lose it (as per the norm).
This is something (and I'm determined to remain calm here, I am MATUREMANHOORAY) that I can't avoid getting involved in now though, because there are effectively good people that I respect coming out with some quite prejudiced ideas.
If you are a man, you don't understand what it's like to be a woman. If you're straight, you don't know what it means to be gay. If you're white, you don't get what it means to be Black. It's fairly simple.
Someone earlier said "I guess that means that black people don't know what it's like to experience asian racism huh" or something - even though they were trying to be ironic in their point, they actually hit the nail on the head - a BLACK person who experiences anti-black prejudice does NOT know what it's like to be an Asian person experiencing Asian-based prejudice. A black guy doesn't know what it feels like to be called a "Paki" when they aren't from Pakistan, much like an Asian person doesn't know what it's like to be called a 'N-word'. They're similar, true, but nowhere near identical.
earlchip mentioned earlier that like faggot and N-word aren't the same either - also entirely true.
This whole thing boils down to the fact that unless you're a member of a persecuted group, however well-meaning you are, you have NO IDEA what it's like to be part of that group. As a gay man I understand what it's like to be a victim of homophobia - however, as a white man I have no idea what it's like to be a victim of systematic racism. Likewise with misogyny - a few women being harsh to me on occasions does NOT equate to ingrained societal attitudes towards women at large.
If you aren't a member of these groups, you have no right to dictate what these people should be feeling, or to make light of the offence they take to things. I am actually pretty thick skinned when it comes to immature homophobia (as shown by Farren's example where he referred to me earlier). However, that doesn't mean that I approve or expect other gay people to be. My partner is deeply affected by issues such as this - I get angry and fight back if someone calls me a faggot, he curls up into a ball, cries, and dies a little inside. Neither of us are fully representative of gay people at large, but the point is that the word DEFINITELY has a negative effect on us both.
I know gay people who're transphobic. I know trans people who're prejudiced against intersex people, and vice-versa. I know women who're homophobic, gay guys who're misogynistic, Lesbians who hate gay men, Lesbians and Gay men who're united in their prejudice towards bisexuals. When I was out clubbing one night with a friend, we suffered homophobic abuse at the hands of a black man. Likewise, I know gay men who support the BNP. I know a bisexual woman who believes that all moslems should be ejected from the UK. And I know for a fact that there are moslems who believe that gay people should be executed - we had a campaign from a group in the UK who distributed leaflets to encourage this in fact.
My point with that last paragraph is that no one is accusing white heterosexual men of being the sole providers of prejudice whatsoever. It clearly isn't the case. The point is that for a white heterosexual man to say that they understand what it's like for a gay man, a woman, a black person, an asian person, or whatever, to experience abuse, to suggest that they should toughen up or get over it, for them to use intellectual argument to JUSTIFY the abuse, is utterly deplorable. No one is saying that they don't have a right to an opinion, but that opinion cannot be given equal weighting when it comes to whether or not a minority group should be offended by a comment made by them.
I've been misogynistic in the past, as well as racist, transphobic, even homophobic. We learn from our mistakes - a wonderful thing. But we only learn when we realise that they ARE, in fact, mistakes. That takes maturity and emotional development in terms of empathy.
Farren: I think you're a nice guy and I enjoy talking to you. I think that a lot of the time you fall down on the side of equality rather than being against equality, and I think you're a very decent chap. But for some reason in this instance you (as well as many other well-thinking and right-minded people) feel that this debate (feminism, homophobia, racism, etc, etc) is something that is an intellectual debate rather than an issue that directly affects people's lives.
Is my analysis accurate? Or am I missing something here?
The thing you miss from your analysis is the fact that there's prejudice against feminine men even amongst the gay community. There's a LOT of prejudice in a variety of forms, in fact, amongst the gay community at large, which is very unfortunate.
Fuck, I've rambled for ages. To summarise though: how about people just act decently? If someone says something offensive, and someone else tells them that they're offended by it, apologise and try to refrain from using the offensive term. Don't try to justify it, don't rationalise it, don't pretend like you understand what it's like to hear the term from their perspective. Just do the decent thing and realise that you've made an error.
I support women's rights but I don't pretend I know what it's like to be a woman. Same with black people, asian people, Lesbians, etc, etc. My partner has a severe and debilitating mental illness, which I have to cope with every day - even so, even though I have mental health issues as an important and (sometimes) almost dominating part of my life, I can never know what it's like for him to be called a loony, what it's like for him when people suggest he toughens up or gets over things, when people are dismissive of his condition in comparison with physical disabilities. We can never truly know what it's like unless we see through the eyes of someone else and live their life.
RANT OVER, I LOVE EVERYONE, PLS BE NICE
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Had to look up Dan Savage. I assume he's a shithead because of the transphobic comments he's made that I read about?
using the kindle's awful browser so I'll get links later but he's made bad comments about bisexuals, trans people and iirc women in general. He's done good things but also unapologetically said harmful things too
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Vellfire, I have a serious question to ask you and I'm sorry if it comes off as insensitive or stupid.
What is your opinion of calling a woman a bitch if she is acting cruel? Like not as a "you are a woman and thus inferior" but like as a female equivalant of "bastard." Like, obviously I wouldn't just go around saying that to women, I'm just wondering what you think of that word used as a direct insult to one woman who's being a jerk.
I have a feeling I already know what you'll say, but I've heard a lot of people of all genders use it that way and never got the impression that it was used as a sexist term in this manner.
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I appreciate Faust's approach. But I have response to his post:
I approach everything as an intellectual or strictly logical perspective. Everything. It's always been just a rule with me. I am of the firm belief that any 'good' belief can be reached through logic of some sort.
That said, I don't think its illogical to suffer a minor inconvenience, actively mentally deleting words that offend people from your vocabulary, to make people comfortable. But I think its annoying, and I think most people (myself sometimes) are a tad bit to lazy to do so, and I don't like to admit mistakes when I suspect even a technicality in my own favor for being logically sound. And I know its not the same thing saying "I'm sorry that word offends you. I'll avoid saying it." versus "I'm sorry I offended you. I was wrong to say that word." While the latter sounds more genuine as a apology, the former is the more technically accurate one in my mind.
TANGENT:
I know its not comparable, but they way I used to feel about the words 'bitch' and 'cunt' has never related to feminism or anti-feminism. I've always defended other more general purpose curse words/vulgarities, "damn", fuck", "shit", 'dick' etc. And merely included 'bitch' and 'cunt' with the rest of them. And that it was illogical to be ashamed of swearing. That it was stupid to assign a difference to shit vs poop. That the offense was arbitrary and pointless. There are oddly enough, psychological benefits to cursing for the swearer. Though, I read that was BECAUSE of their taboo nature. They literally have a pain killing effect.
Anyway, I actually never really included 'nigger' or 'faggot' as a curse in my mind. IDK why I made the separation for those and not bitch and cunt for certain. But I think its because both of those words also had a more 'general utility' like the rest. 'Bitching' namely as synonym for complaining. And 'Cunt' as really just the gender swap of 'prick' as a 'I don't like you, fuck you' insult.
I always thought of the finger wagging over any cursing came from "the man" (though this isn't the term that actually came to mind) and the overly traditional/religious. And I think I've mentioned my (admittedly illogical as far as I can tell) admiration for the rebellious. So I embraced cursing in all forms as the most painless (for me and arguably others) way to be rebellious.
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Vellfire, I have a serious question to ask you and I'm sorry if it comes off as insensitive or stupid.
What is your opinion of calling a woman a bitch if she is acting cruel? Like not as a "you are a woman and thus inferior" but like as a female equivalant of "bastard." Like, obviously I wouldn't just go around saying that to women, I'm just wondering what you think of that word used as a direct insult to one woman who's being a jerk.
I have a feeling I already know what you'll say, but I've heard a lot of people of all genders use it that way and never got the impression that it was used as a sexist term in this manner.
Of course it's sexist, it's a sexist word with sexist connotations. If a woman is acting that way, call her a jerk. There is no excuse for using gendered insults like this. By using a word like bitch, you are explicitly gendering the situation. You aren't saying "hey, you're being a jerk", you're saying "you're being a WOMAN jerk" and there is no reason for that. Bitch will always mean "you are a woman and thus inferior", so use a different word.
e: Warped, if you're looking for rebellion, consider the fact that feminism IS rebellion. You are literally rebelling against the structure of our society when you fight against patriarchy. And it feels so much better than saying hurtful words. And laziness is never an excuse for hurting people, you're better than that.
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Jerk is a pretty 'tame' word though. I'd probably just use "you're being a shit head" or something that still has bite but isn't gendered.
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Actually bastard is pretty tame as well.
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triple post: Bastard is unisex. But for some reason always considered male when used as an insult. hmm.
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Shit head is pretty good, there's plenty of things to call people without having to result to slurs.
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'shitbird' 'fuckface' 'asshole' 'fuckfail'
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buttwad
e: dorkus
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incorporate these words
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/hG0Ho.png)
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I am so incorporating Boontockle into my every day speech.
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edit PuppetMaster, think nothing of my post! i don't think anything of you really, i think my tired post is more about the second paragraph = weirded out that you have a problem thinking of a way to call out a woman, huh whats the problem why gender word... oh thats why... groannn im really tired...
think it this way. if somebody is acting like an asshole or treating you like a selfish, hedonistic human scum then he OR she is such. there's no point trying to gender-relate stuff like that. i found it bit odd that you had to ask that PuppetMaster but i'm gonna assume that you're wondering about the association part of insulting people.
idk example, if the girl i'm dating is ditching me over for some other guy or she is dating other guy(s) while you are dating her without mutual consent then she's not a "bitch". she's being a opportunistic, she is on the look out for someone better, she's not being mindful of your feelings, she's not telling you the truth/hiding her motives etc. like you can relate on those things right? because they are universal. injustice, insensitivity, greed, bad person traits etc are never gender related. some models of acting in relationships in culture can be similiar in culture but that's more about cultural gender culture.
this is a lazy tired post but still. no matter how white trashy or shallow your hot blonde gf is, it NEVER warrants bitches and whores etc. dudes do that a lot apparently and it's bad.
actually writing that second paragraph was kinda funky because i'm thinking that in finnish terms and we don't have he or she in finnish. results: you don't ever need one anyways. get THAT! hah! but we do have uh like POSTMAN FIREMAN BESTMANMANMANMAN and that's an interesting discussion to have about.
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I guess I was more asking about the association part. That and I've just heard so many girls say stuff like "My english teacher is such a bitch" that I find it kind of hard to always associate that with the sexist connotation. Also, I never really thought about how weird it is to have gendered insults.
EDIT: Haha, I just read your edit bonzi_buddy. I find it kind of amusing that you thought I was trying to find an acceptable way to call out a woman.
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I guess I was more asking about the association part. That and I've just heard so many girls say stuff like "My english teacher is such a bitch" that I find it kind of hard to always associate that with the sexist connotation. Also, I never really thought about how weird it is to have gendered insults.
Well, I've discussed it before but internalized misogyny is a huge problem. Women raised in a misogynistic culture tend to absorb a lot of it. Women aren't immune from doing misogynist things.
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yyyeahhh. we have those too but idk if somebody called somebody a whore (closest to bitch) then that would be REALLY harsh/sexist thing to say everywhere over here. ohh we do have bitch too but who bothers to say that in finnish, it's equally sexist. word cultures.
still, uh you might not want to read about rapings and the judgements related to those over here, people are constantly really angry about how lax the punishments are. also again trust me, you never really need to indicate all the time whether the spokesperson is a woman or a man. :^B finnish, the klingon feminisn...jk jk groannn i need to sleep, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnn. i think calling a guy a grimdick is a pr nasty attack don't you think. yawnn tattoo pinochio in groinal area, bonzi's dream... zzzzzzzzz, flips around twice real fast in sleep, ends up in back right away again... fajgsgfg agf9gg psoting becomes difficult...
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I hear ya, Vellfire. Not to be a boontockle, but it's still probably going to be a while before I get offended at every use of the word, if I ever do. I just kind of know that's not what they're trying to say and it's our culture's fault, not their's for using it. I will try to refrain from using it, though.
Another quick question. What do you think of the term "bitchin'" as in "awesome."
And bonzi_buddy, I can say with all honesty I have never heard anyone use the phrase "Grimdick" ever. It kind of sounds like a bad metal band to me, actually.
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I approach everything as an intellectual or strictly logical perspective. Everything. It's always been just a rule with me. I am of the firm belief that any 'good' belief can be reached through logic of some sort.
Don't take this the wrong way as I know you're a great guy based on what I've seen of you, but I was pretty much like you in my yesteryear. Paolo is pretty much the way you describe at the moment, and always has been. However, he has Borderline Personality Disorder, which leaves him considerably distanced from understanding appropriateness a lot of the time, as well as being severely emotionally underdeveloped. I'm not accusing you of this at all, understand - I'm not saying "MATURE UP" or "GROW UP" or any of that bullshit. I'm just mentioning this to help you clarify my opinion on why I feel it inappropriate to approach this from a solely intellectual standpoint.
I'm not saying my thoughts here are definitely 100% correct, but my view of what you're saying largely comes down to maturity. Not intellectual maturity, but emotional maturity - there comes a point where you realise that many topics (while totally acceptable for academic study and debate) transcend that when they approach the realm of reality and people's actual lives.
Eugenics is something that can be intellectualised - in fact, good ol' Belross made a name for himself back in the day with his controversial intellectual postings on the topic. The stuff he came up with was incredibly well thought out and interesting, as was his theories on trans people. However, the one thing they didn't actively consider was the practical reality of application - things he was saying were actually hurting people who were around at the time. To him it was abject theory, an interesting side jaunt into fascinating topics. But to others they related to the stark realities of their own lives. The debates took place in the old TOPIC OF THE WEEK forums however, wherein debates like that were actively encouraged - nothing was off the table.
I hope I don't seem arrogant here, I totally can understand how I'd be perceived as this, and considering the amount of time I spend arguing AGAINST anti-intellectualism I probably seem like a hypocrite. I don't believe that any topic is OFF the table when it comes to debate if you're in an academic environment or debate focused grouping. But in the social sphere concerning interactions between people on a more casual level it comes across as cold and distant to approach this as if it is a topic that even merits debate.
This debate wasn't about the abstract concept of word meanings or the philosophy of vocabulary itself. It's about actively causing harm to others around you who you're choosing to socialise with. It isn't theoretical or academic - it's reality itself.
Warped: again, I'm not trying to claim superiority or anything in this, in fact I'm one of the last people who should get to do that given the way in which I've carried myself when it comes to this shit during my life. I'm just explaining my thoughts on this topic.
PS: I don't disagree that good beliefs can be reached through logic. I just feel that some truths are self evident and effectively shouldn't need to be justified. One of these in my opinion is the idea of not harming others without valid reason.
IT IS IN TEH BIBAL!!!!
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I hear ya, Vellfire. Not to be a boontockle, but it's still probably going to be a while before I get offended at every use of the word, if I ever do. I just kind of know that's not what they're trying to say and it's our culture's fault, not their's for using it. I will try to refrain from using it, though.
Another quick question. What do you think of the term "bitchin'" as in "awesome."
And bonzi_buddy, I can say with all honesty I have never heard anyone use the phrase "Grimdick" ever.
You don't have to be personally hurt by the word, what's important is knowing that it hurts others. You don't have to hate it yourself to quit using it!
I'm conflicted on bitchin'. It'd help if I knew more about the history of it. I don't really hear it all that often, but it's a pretty positive word so it doesn't bother me offhand. I'd have to give it some more thought as to whether or not it's a good word. I'd rather just stick to "fuckin rad" myself.
Also grimdick rules. That sounds like a badass compliment to me.
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Persecution is persecution
Women are persecuted against I do not know how it feels to be turned down by a job because I'm a woman but I can understand WHY it hurts them because I have also been persecuted.
The gender and race specification is irrelevant in that perspective. It is relevant for ANYONE willing to understand feminism and the persecution of women. You cannot act like people not like you are completely ignorant to that. That is just another form of predjudiced and you're doing the same damn thing you're complaining about.
When you talked about the mishandle of rape, why do you think the court systems let that shit happen? Just because mysogonism is allowed or you have stupid fucking people devaluing femanist arguments so they can file lawsuits that are totally arbitrary and a manipulation of the law? SOME TERRIBLE WOMEN do that shit and it is the idealogical same thing as dropping a coffee cup on your lap at mcdonalds and suing for it. It ruins womens rights for other women.
IF femanism took the other perspective the "If I can't change shit then rail on the individual being predjudiced to me or ignore them" it would be allowed in society. I would much rather watch some women dog cus a mysogonist or punch them in their fucking faces then women wholly being belittled because of extremist feminism.
For the hundreth fucking time no one is saying that those words should be used. They universally should not. This is a comment that those divisions should have a different approach and not this al sharpton shit.
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When you talked about the mishandle of rape, why do you think the court systems let that shit happen? Just because mysogonism is allowed or you have stupid fucking people devaluing femanist arguments so they can file lawsuits that are totally arbitrary and a manipulation of the law? SOME TERRIBLE WOMEN do that shit and it is the idealogical same thing as dropping a coffee cup on your lap at mcdonalds and suing for it. It ruins womens rights for other women.
Read about rape culture, because you don't actually understand the situation here. Here's an intro:
e: i mean this link, but i'll leave the other one there too
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/tag/rape-culture/ (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/tag/rape-culture/)
If you google rape culture you'll find more about it.
e: And no, persecution isn't persecution. Unless you're willing to realize the ways in which the oppression differs between groups there is no way to even begin discussing it. Stop lumping shit together that isn't the same.
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also read this http://www.shakesville.com/2010/01/feminism-101.html (http://www.shakesville.com/2010/01/feminism-101.html)
useful to know what feminists think when you talkin' about feminists.
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they forgot to mention rape in award-winning video games using the international indie pixel art style by imbeciles who staunchly believe they're actually making a significant artistic gesture http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=7086.0
edit: that thread's missing the comment where the creator said something like "killing and murder is everywhere in video games...why is rape any different?" followed by some sort of comment about the future of video games
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they forgot to mention rape in award-winning video games using the international indie pixel art style by imbeciles who staunchly believe they're actually making a significant artistic gesture http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=7086.0
edit: that thread's missing the comment where the creator said something like "killing and murder is everywhere in video games...why is rape any different?" followed by some sort of comment about the future of video games
holy shit. kill me.
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Unless you're willing to realize the ways in which the oppression differs between groups there is no way to even begin discussing it.
I do and I have not denied that. There is realizing and taking offense. You realize something is wrong and you try to fix it. Feminism is defensive, al sharpton is defensive. All of these self-identifying classifications are defensive. All of these groups should unite under the banner of HUMAN RIGHTS and CIVIL RIGHTS once you do that and reach a base level of rights for everyone that same group can go to make changes in culture and perception with the group. Also for Rule of law and necessity of law for the individual sets of people beneath it.
It is much more effective and much more profound that way. I'm not saying women dealing with a man oppressing them on a certain level shouldn't go talk to other women for theraputic reasons. I'm saying if you want shit to change one group doing it while self-identifying and excluding all others is completely wrong.
You're sending me the same jargon you've been saying its fucking self-identification. I read it. Young boys are raped almost as much as women by both sexes. Neither women nor men WANT TO TALK ABOUT BEING RAPED. Especially men. Probably for mysogonistic reasons ie loss of empowerment and the ego but that is a wholly male problem and that has nothing to do with feminism. It has everything to do with testosterone and the concept of masculinity. Masculinity is not inherantly a concept of the overbearing and dominant. Thats not what that means.
Masculinity is a male concept of strength and power. You can be a strong compassionate person and not overbearing and dominant. That is a feminist attack and misconception of manhood.
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Men have rape culture too and emphasizing a woman's and disreguarding a man's because its not as prominent is wrong.
Men raping men, men raping children, women raping men. Women grope women catcall women oggle. This is not because adam was a piece of shit that decided he was stronger so he'd dominate eve. No, thats people. People who that have more power without compassion inherantly do that shit. These feminist themes and ideals are ignoring the fact that it IS universal that is self gratification and self-identification.
I'm not saying this isn't more prominent for women. I'm saying women and feminists should self-identify and exclude everyone else, that is wrong.
Feminism is very important but self-gratifying feminism and exclusive feminism is counter productive.
The thick skin I'm talking about is not an attack on the humorless but an insistance to go back to our survival mechanisms. Our abilities to cope and adapt to a harsh environment we cannot control, both physically and mentally. Not to strictly block out the world around you but realize if you want to be apart of that world you have to be stronger than the harshness.
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There is realizing and taking offense. You realize something is wrong and you try to fix it. Feminism is defensive, al sharpton is defensive.
You literally just compared feminism to Al Sharpton. Think about that. Think about how fucking dumb that is.
All of these self-identifying classifications are defensive. All of these groups should unite under the banner of HUMAN RIGHTS and CIVIL RIGHTS once you do that and reach a base level of rights for everyone that same group can go to make changes in culture and perception with the group. Also for Rule of law and necessity of law for the individual sets of people beneath it.
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/faq-why-feminism-and-not-just-humanism-or-equalism-isnt-saying-youre-a-feminist-exclusionary/ (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/faq-why-feminism-and-not-just-humanism-or-equalism-isnt-saying-youre-a-feminist-exclusionary/)
It is much more effective and much more profound that way. I'm not saying women dealing with a man oppressing them on a certain level shouldn't go talk to other women for theraputic reasons. I'm saying if you want shit to change one group doing it while self-identifying and excluding all others is completely wrong.
Feminism doesn't exclude men. Feminism excludes men from being the one making the decisions. It's not a man's place to decide what terms women will end their own oppression and the reasons for this should be obvious. Mens roles in feminism is as allies, not leaders.
You're sending me the same jargon you've been saying its fucking self-identification. I read it. Young boys are raped almost as much as women by both sexes. Neither women nor men WANT TO TALK ABOUT BEING RAPED. Especially men. Probably for mysogonistic reasons ie loss of empowerment and the ego but that is a wholly male problem and that has nothing to do with feminism. It has everything to do with testosterone and the concept of masculinity. Masculinity is not inherantly a concept of the overbearing and dominant. Thats not what that means.
Plenty of women would like to talk about being raped but won't do it because of the repercussions. Same for men. It's pretty hasty to say that the way male rape victims are treated has nothing to do with feminism though. Rape is "supposed" to be something that happens to women. Men are never supposed to turn down sex. That's a misogynist issue. Destroying misogyny is what feminism is about. More focus is put on female rape victims for obvious reasons, however, especially because when the way male rape victims are treated is brought up in feminist discussions historically it is so the men in the conversation can draw attention away from the rape of women (which is far more common statistically). They're both problems, and they're both part of feminism.
At this point I don't know what we're arguing about.
e: you posted while I was writing my post:
Men have rape culture too
It's the same rape culture, but it hurts women in far greater numbers. It's still the SAME culture though, it's the same system.
Men raping men, men raping children, women raping men. Women grope women catcall women oggle. This is not because adam was a piece of shit that decided he was stronger so he'd dominate eve. No, thats people people that have more power inherantly do that shit and ignoring the fact that it IS universal is self gratification and self-identification.
Don't even start with the women catcall too bullshit. Stop trying to compare something rare to something that is part of the daily life of women all over the place. Don't belittle women's problems.
I'm not saying this isn't more prominent for women. I'm saying women and feminists should self-identify and exclude everyone else, that is wrong.
Feminism is very important but self-gratifying feminism and exclusive feminism is counter productive.
I already said this earlier but men are not excluded from feminism. They're excluded from being the decision makers in feminism. They're welcome to ask questions and they're welcome to be feminist allies (which is what Dada has been doing), but they are NOT welcome to try to dictate like you are doing right now by saying how YOU think feminism should be run and should be promoted and how YOU think it's counter productive. There's nothing counter productive about feminism. What you are doing in these two posts you just made is just trying to shift the focus back to men. Do you not see a problem with constantly trying to shift conversations about womens issues to your own issues and to men's issues while simultaneously saying feminism is a cop out and counterproductive and self-gratifying? I'd recommend you read up on feminism more before you try to continue this discussion because I honestly don't think you know enough about what you're talking about to be making these claims.
e: re: the ways patriarchy hurts men too, I do think it can't be entirely divorced from feminism. I do however, for the reasons I just said in the previous paragraph, think they don't have a lot of place in feminist discussion. Here's some reasons why, and I hope you read this before you post again:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/
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I can say somethings wrong if I want to. Thats my right. Its wrong. Its the same as al sharpton because al sharpton is a defensive dick head who every time something happens to black people or black culture that could slightly be concieved as a hatecrime he drills on that shit like a hell banshee trying to get a rise out of people and pull at their emotions and goad them into ignorance. Conventional feminism, you're damn links do the same thing to women everywhere. Causing them to take up a false sense of personal belittlement. It makes them look at the world around them as completely oppressive and destructive to their egos and it seperates them from all of the other suffering people around them too. Whose problems are more important? Yours because your a woman? What about everyone else? You have no opinion because your a woman? thats bullshit.
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I can say somethings wrong if I want to. Thats my right. Its wrong. Its the same as al sharpton because al sharpton is a defensive dick head who every time something happens to black people or black culture that could slightly be concieved as a hatecrime he drills on that shit like a hell banshee trying to get a rise out of people and pull at their emotions and goad them into ignorance. Conventional feminism, you're damn links do the same thing to women everywhere. Causing them to take up a false sense of empowerment and seperate themselves from all of the other suffering people around them too. Whose problems are more important? Yours because your a woman? What about everyone else? You have no opinion because your a woman? thats bullshit.
this post is bullshit and you don't know anything about feminism so you should probably just quit while you're ahead thanks.
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I'M A FEMINIST GUESS THAT MEANS I LITERALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING BUT WOMEN I GUESS. I'M SO IRRATIONAL I'M ALMOST HYSTERICAL HUH GUYS? HEY BY THE WAY LADIES I KNOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES YOU FACE RIGHT NOW BUT LET ME JUST KEEP REMINDING YOU HOW MEN HAVE IT TOUGH TOO INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO YOU FOR EVEN A SECOND.
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No you don't
Those are a bunch of arbitrary statements and conclusions that make women out to be culturally terrorised and attacked on a consistant basis. There is no alternative and there is no other-side and any other viewpoint is either mysogonistic or part of feminism. Its intellectually debilitating and it forces self-identifying feminists to come to conclusions that cannot be changed unless they somehow stop self-identifying on their own (why would you?) and come to another conclusion that, that form of feminism is bullshit on their own. Because you know, a man can't say that because that would change their base belief system. um.....hows shit change then?
I'M A FEMINIST GUESS THAT MEANS I LITERALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING BUT WOMEN I GUESS.
Your concept of modern manhood and womanhood is totally overbearing on your own damn mind. Its putting up walls that shouldn't be there anymore. Its archaic
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Those are a bunch of arbitrary statements and conclusions that make women out to be culturally terrorised and attacked on a consistant basis.
They are.
Please define what you mean by "that form of feminism" and please tell me what sort of feminism you think is appropriate. Tell me what feminism's goals are (as you understand them currently and what you think its ideal goals are in your own opinion) and tell me what you think it means to be oppressed as a woman. I'm dying to know.
e: Your concept of modern manhood and womanhood is totally overbearing on your own damn mind. Its putting up walls that shouldn't be there anymore. Its archaic
Thanks for telling me that none of this stuff applies anymore when I fucking live it, as does every other woman in every feminist discussion I've been in. You're fucking blind to it because we live in a society that caters to you as a man. It's called male privilege, google it sometime.
e2: and before you get fussy about my tone again, consider the fact that I didn't have to take this tone with Warped or Puppet Master. That's because they genuinely asked questions and tried to find ways to treat people nicer rather than sit here and try to tear feminism limb from limb without knowing a goddamn thing about it (I mean seriously, you called Margaret Fucking Atwood an old woman who doesn't know what she's talking about and compare feminism to Al Sharpton, you really don't deserve to be taken seriously at this point on any of this because those two things are proof of your pure ignorance on this subject).
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"That form of feminism" means "feminism with which I disagree", which happens to be the same view that mainstream feminist authors share. Farren just doesn't really think there's much of a problem at all, and it's just a few bad apples and if you focus on anything more than that, you're just a fossil.
Yeah, I've said it before and I'll readily admit there's not much value to me saying this, but that's just typical. A man who doesn't understand misogyny and doesn't think women have much of a complaint. Nobody's surprised.
Here we have two members of different oppressed groups, Vellfire and Faust, telling Farren that what he's saying is just plain wrong (Faust even gave a ton of examples of how many different forms of oppression exist, and how they should not be conflated) and that was mostly just ignored. I'll say it again: here we have someone who doesn't know what he's talking about flat out claiming that Vellfire and Faust, who both have extensive personal experience, are plain wrong in what they're saying. Even saying there's not much of a systemic problem, period.
It kind of reminds me of political cartoons of obscenely rich people getting their taxes increased and saying to the poor worker that they're going through rough times as well, so they totally understand their despair. Or Donald Trump saying "I have a lot of gay friends, and I think it's fantastic, but I'm against gay marriage." Yeah, in that same way, Farren says "I talk to women about misogyny a lot, and I think it's very important, but I think you should just keep your head down and take it and let it make you stronger."
That's not the attitude of someone who cares.
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There was a great thread on SA called "Tell me what it's like to be a woman" that opened a TON of guy's eyes to the fact that sexism in fact is not anywhere near over and that women still have heaps and heaps of shit piled on them every single day. Unfortunately I think it's archived now, I'll link to it in case it isn't but I might pull out some choice quotes if it is:
e: it's archived, i posted quotes below
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I mean, there's not much I can say because not even Vellfire and Faust are getting through to you. You haven't moved one single inch since we started.
Here's the fact: you're privileged, and that privilege is preventing you from seeing what they're trying to explain to you. You have a prejudice, too: since the systematic oppression that Vellfire talks about doesn't exist anymore, feminists must be fossils. And since the systematic racist oppression that Al Sharpton, let's say, talks about doesn't exist anymore, he's a fossil too.
I think that's why you flat-out refuse to acknowledge the fact that Vellfire and Faust could be right when they try to explain to you that lots of different forms of oppression exist and they all have their unique attributes, histories and consequences. Because if you accept the notion, you'll have to throw out a lot of your prejudices about oppressed minorities, and that hurts, because you consider your own personal experiences to be equal to them, as you've stated repeatedly.
This isn't about who's suffering more. Yeah, there's lots of suffering all around. Poor people, black people, LGBT, you name it. Dismissing the concept of looking for specific ways to deal with specific forms of suffering, such as rape culture, because of the idea that doing so somehow means you don't care about other forms of suffering, is just dishonest and counterproductive. You have to accept the fact that it's not just one big umbrella, because if you consider everybody's suffering to be one and the same, you'll never be able to find ways to deal with it.
If nothing else, you should accept the fact that different forms of systematic oppression exist, whether it be against women, against LGBT, against black people, and so on and so forth.
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the only defensible position IMO is for a complete rejection of all identity politics in favor for a collective abolition of all gender distinctions between sexes
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I work in the electronics department of a store. Several times I've asked people if they needed help and they responded with "it's ok I want to ask a man my question." Mostly older people but really? I do love it though when they go and ask a male coworker, who then tells them they don't know and to go ask me because I'm the one who would know.
In my teens I really hated being a woman. I hated all the negative connotations, hated being weak, hated periods, hated that there were no women sports teams. I hated how when it was a holiday, all the men would be in the living room watching a sports game or something and all the women would have to cook and gossip in the kitchen. Hated doors being opened for me, hated being treated as anything less or other than equal.
Yeah, I've been in situations where I'd be putting brake fluid in and some asshole would swagger up and be like, "CAN I HELP YOU, LITTLE LADY? I KNOW CARS." And you can't tell those people that you're fine, you know what you're doing, cuz they insist on "taking a look under there for ya", like there's gonna be a big On/Off switch set in the Off position that they can just point to and say, "Well HERE'S your problem!" Every single time they do that, I end up explaining the problem to them and they have no idea what I'm talking about. They just assume that men are more mechanically-minded, so even though they know nothing about cars, they're still more in a position to determine the problem than a woman.
And don't get me started on being bilked at the shop because men assume women will have no idea what they need fixed and will just pay for anything. I've had guys stopping just short of putting "headlight fluid" or "muffler belt" on the bill. And they don't apologize when you point out that you know your shit and you're not paying such outrageous prices. They just shrug and adjust the bill, like "well, I guess YOU got me, but honestly, it's expected that we do this to women."
I feel unsafe very often. I'm probably over-paranoid and influenced by media espousing dangers. I know that a woman is seen as an easy target. Not to mention the added element of sexual assault. That's one huge privilege men have, and something they should acknowledge when dealing with women. Many guys will get angry when women aren't immediately receptive to them. We're just protecting ourselves. I call this my bitch shield. Since I feel vulnerable so often, I force myself to walk with confidence and scowl at everybody around me.
As you can probably tell from my tone in the previous points, I actually feel a little slighted. I feel slighted by society, by the expectations placed upon me, by the things I have to worry about that men will never have to. I don't hate being a woman. But I hate what being a woman entails. Granted women have it much better today than years before, but the fact that we're still not 100% equal is not ok. Most people will remark "that's just the way it is." No, that's not just the way it is and just because you're ok with it doesn't make it nice and dandy.
I don't enjoy being underrepresented in media and politics, I don't like old white men voting on what I can do with my body, I don't like people brushing off my complaints because men and women are supposedly equal now that women can vote, I don't like facing threats of a sexual nature, I don't like people pushing my voice to the side because I'm female, I don't like people using my own personal shortcomings as a mark against my whole gender, I don't like people being surprised when I show competence in something that isn't typically female, I loathe how women are still paid less than men, I hate how prevalent sexual harassment in the workplace is, and I CAN'T FUCKING STAND double standards.
I repeat--even if I choose to ignore someone who's calling me "sweet thing" without scowling or making a face, this will cause the other person to confront me. One example of this is when I was riding the bus alone as a 17-year old. A taller guy kept yelling "hey girl," and it took me a while to realize he was yelling at me. I didn't know him, so I just pretended to be absorbed in the book I was reading and ignored him, and he leaned forward and shook my bus seat until I looked up at him! The next time someone on the bus called me "girl," I narrowed my eyes at him to signal that I didn't appreciate his attention, and he actually got up and moved to the seat behind me until I got off at my stop. When I told my mom about it later, she got upset, told me I was asking for trouble by doing that, and asked me why I didn't just ignore him. Situations like these are part of why many women act cute and smile even when they're getting unwanted attention--sometimes, doing anything but giving a man attention can cause confrontation. This is part of why it's very important that you address harassment in your camp, if it happens.
Speaking of danger, it's something I'm constantly thinking about if I'm walking around by myself at night. "What would I do if a strange man came up to me right now?" "Which direction should I run in?" "Can I even run in these shoes?" "Where's the nearest safe, well lit area?" This is why I usually keep my eyes open and will look straight ahead to avoid any potential eye contact. I don't want any trouble, so I want to ignore you in hopes that you will reciprocate.
I'm heavily involved in lifting and strength sports. It really fucking sucks being a woman, especially if you're interest in coaching or training others in any capacity. A guy will always get asked advice first--even if he is weaker than you and started lifting last week--and if you are actually asked advice it is taken with a giant dose of skepticism and often ignored.
Women are often perceived to be entirely at the mercy of their raging hormones. For the record, while there are some women who suffer severe mood swings as a result of their menstrual cycle and birth control, the majority of women do not undergo major personality changes every single month. It's very frustrating to feel like you can't express dissatisfaction or anger without being condescendingly told that you're probably just on the rag and you don't really mean what you're saying. Things as minor as saying you'd rather eat Thai tonight or as justifiable as saying you don't want to be called "sweetie" by your male co-worker can be attributed to your period. I often find myself refraining from making comments that I know are absolutely reasonable and justified because I really don't want to be accused of being a psycho bitch on the rag.
I know this has been brought up before, but personal safety is by far the biggest difference in how men and women approach day to day life. I know very few men who frame their day to day interactions on the assumption that they may be assaulted. My fear of being attacked informs how I talk to strange men, where I sit on the train, when and where I walk alone outside, how much I drink at a bar, where I park my car, what apartment I rent, what shoes I wear out (can I run in them?), and a million other little things. Also relevant is the fact that I am expected to simultaneously be accountable for any "lapse in judgement" that may lead to me being assaulted and yet be friendly and accommodating to anyone who chooses to interact with me. If a strange man at a bar persistently offered me a drink and I turned him down, especially if I did it without being nice, I'd be labeled a bitch. But if I accepted the drink and he drugged it and sexually assaulted me, I would be held at least partially responsible for not guarding my drink and accepting a drink from a stranger and not having a buddy to watch me to make sure nobody drugged me and dragged me off. Oh yeah, we're supposed to have buddies if we go drinking. That's not condescending at all.
* I've been inundated with advice on "how to avoid being kidnapped" and "how to avoid being raped." As an adult woman, I'm still consistently provided tips along these lines and reminded that I need to protect myself. As a result...
* I always take my keys out of my purse before leaving a building, to minimize the amount of time I spend standing around alone in an empty/dark parking lot.
* Doing laundry at night, in the laundry room of my apartment complex, can actually be scary. I'm acutely aware of the fact that it's a small, almost always empty room, and it would be easy for someone to follow me in and lock the door behind them.
* Walking outside at night alone takes some consideration. If I do have to walk somewhere, I'll intentionally try to avoid men unless it's a sufficiently crowded street, that it feels safe.
* If I'm walking somewhere alone at night, I'll walk farthest from any dark areas, bushes, or alleys...anywhere where someone could hide or drag me out of sight.
* If there's a man walking behind me, as I'm walking to my apartment door, I always wait for them to pass (and for enough distance between us), before I unlock my door and go inside.
* I actually worry about being hit on. In the wrong setting (work, for example, or alone at night) it just creates problems.
Safety is something I think about a lot. I think women get a lot of flak for being "overly paranoid" but, again, the "THERE ARE MEN LOOKING TO KIDNAP AND RAPE YOU!!!!" message is pretty constant. And, honestly, there are men out there looking to kidnap and rape women, so what are you going to do? You have to try and balance safety with living as best as you can.
there's plenty more where these came from
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I think it's admirable that you're even still putting in effort here, considering you're dealing with a guy who said Margaret Atwood is a dumb old woman who doesn't know what she's talking about.
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I'm gonna be totally honest here though if it wasn't for the fact that I'm hoping to encourage lurkers to think about this harder I probably wouldn't bother. I really don't expect to convince Farren of any of this.
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In that case I want you to knwo I've, thought more about this stuff in the past two days than I have in the past two years. I don't agree with everything you've said but it's given me food for thought and made me try harder to emphasize and form my own opinions. So thanks, and I'm glad you decided to come back to Salt World.
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did this come up yet btw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze
ruining movies is one of my favourite activities, and spending the entire time thinking about male gaze can ruin a lot of movies. even irked me when i watched Dark City. a friend of mine used it to analyse facebook's presentation of social interaction through a male lens in a big media law project she did. (it was about the censorship of exposed nipples in men vs women. turns out women's bodies are considered particularly dangerous. my flabby chest on tv? absolutely! encouraged! a lady's chest? it will corrupt the youth.)
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Please define what you mean by "that form of feminism" and please tell me what sort of feminism you think is appropriate. Tell me what feminism's goals are (as you understand them currently and what you think its ideal goals are in your own opinion) and tell me what you think it means to be oppressed as a woman.
This is where I won't budge and you keep railing against my beliefs thinking I don't have the EXACT SAME perception of what a woman's oppression is. What I'm talking about is how feminists deal with that oppression and how they percieve the masculine side of said oppression.
What some might percieve as oggling (I'm not talking about catcalling) to some men is appreciation of a woman's beauty and a biological response to it. How that man handles himself after said woman shows no interest is where mysogony comes into play and whether or not its actually oggling. This is one of the many misconceptions I'm talking about. Like if you look at a handsome dude or a beautiful women if thats your sexuality and your comfortable with your own sexuality. You're going to look at them, it is a biological response regardless of sex and its natural.
A woman's empowerment is very important in my opinion. But not in a sense of the world around her bearing down on her and tearing her apart with its cruelty which feminism (to me) seems to focus on almost entirely. But a woman's actual empowerment. Her natural perspective a man isn't born with (this has nothing to do with mysogony or culture), her natural grace and beauty that men aren't born with, and her ability to give life.
You're saying I shouldn't say this shit because I'm not a woman. I'm saying women and men are two parts of a whole and you can't have one without the other. One can't ever seek and find true freedom and acceptance without the understanding and support of the other. Some feminist ideals negate this which is what I've been driving at this whole time. And I'm not specifically talking about sexuality when I say one and the other. I'm talking about the whole way of thinking, physical manifestation, your very existance whether or not you're gay straight black or what comes into two things: man or woman. Trans is still a manifestation to that because its still a mental conformity to the masculine or feminine. Though these things aren't definite and there are varying levels of masculine and feminine.
I would GLADLY love to hear a woman tell me what she desires from a man. How she would like a man to act in her presence and treat her, as far as respect or what have you. That is not condescending to me. Thats telling me what she wants and what she finds offensive and not offensive. This whole. I'll tell you what I think about mysogony and how its demeaning to me but I won't hear the same thing about feminism is ignorant. Thats sharing information and beliefs and learning from them. I don't want to tell women what to do or how to carry themselves I just wish there was a less defensive way for them to do that, that didn't exclude alot of people. I don't give enough of a shit to go out and try to be a male feminist leader. Not because I don't give a shit about womens rights just because I hate arguing about it but I'm tired of seeing the same shit over and over and over again. Its effectively done nothing because MOST WOMEN ignore conventional feminism to that extent (from my experience). And I really doubt thats because of sheer ignorance but the exclusion itself.
I read somewhere about a new age feminism or a new perception of feminism (developed by women) that focused on this but I can't remember the details or where I got it from. But that kind of empowerment to me as a human being and not a man is so much more powerful than victimizing yourself and blaming society for oppression and not actually finding a way to deal with and overcome it. To me its not dealing with anything its not empowering yourself at all its putting up walls. Like a victim to me can't overcome the thing victimizing her. You have to personally refuse to aknowledge it as a victim in my opinion.
This whole idea that society is out to get you. Society is a machine, media is a cog, these things in the bigger sense of life aren't as important as actual people and what actual people think and believe about themselves regardless of society and media or their own physical manifestation. That is what needs to be focused on and conveyed through speech, art, individualism. When you define yourself by society and media you're limiting all of that greater meaning and pursuit. Fuck what society and media tells you if you focus on what it tells you less shit gets done.
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Maybe what I'm talking about is just a form of humanism with a focus on the values of both genders. Without focus on the defensiveness of feminism and the offensiveness of masculinity and the equality of all race.
I swear I got this from somewhere.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.findwaldo.com/fankit/graphics/WaldoAndFriendsAndOdlaw/WaldoWalking.gif)
here's all the fallacies i spotted in your post:
nature:
- gender as natural / bound to biological sex
- natural relationship of men and women (very greek metaphysics lol)
individualism:
- power of individual action
- nonexistence of social processes because "society is just individuals"
- conflating personal dealing with abuse with solving societal problems (although I guess this follows from denying their existence)
- true freedom
strawman:
- still sounds like you're criticising a feminism that doesn't exist
invisible man:
- forgetting that man often treated as the default narrative subject (for a long time this was true in basically all english sentences - The Advancement Of Man's Progress etc)
- being unaware of the effects of your male privilege (oggling, for example. i'm told of a woman who openly oogles men and she's often told off for it because it makes men uncomfortable.)
most of these are common beliefs/activities/attitudes, but as a master media/society ignorer, you should make light work of unlearning them.
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whatever this is just another thing I don't give a shit about anymore. Feminism doesn't concern me I don't care and I'm not gonna even try on the level you people cling to it its too much stress on my brain. I'm not accepting that my opinion is insignificant because of the way I was born and the society I was born into.
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your opinion is very significant, which is why you should think it through. i don't think that continuing the argument you're having is going to be particularly productive, but it would be a shame if you permanently wrote off the sort of feminism you claim to be arguing against. you'd be cutting yourself from the #1 useful source of the gender equality part of the gender equal humanism you said you're looking for. it really doesn't focus only on women or only on suffering, even. all of the best stuff i have read about men and gender comes from that camp of people. the reason women are disproportionately motivated to engage in reexamining gender norms and looking at their effects isn't, I think, that it's a popular fad, or the in thing to do, or a hangover from the feminism of the past. i really think that you're passing up something that could improve your understanding of the world. if you come back and reexamine later you might see that, idk. i have no intention of arguing with anyone here, because i don't usually find sw arguments fun or productive, but i did want to tell you the problems i found with your reasoning. people always accuse me of being a computer. consider it an error message. do with it what you will.
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What some might percieve as oggling (I'm not talking about catcalling) to some men is appreciation of a woman's beauty and a biological response to it. How that man handles himself after said woman shows no interest is where mysogony comes into play and whether or not its actually oggling. This is one of the many misconceptions I'm talking about. Like if you look at a handsome dude or a beautiful women if thats your sexuality and your comfortable with your own sexuality. You're going to look at them, it is a biological response regardless of sex and its natural.
Ogling isn't the same as looking at a beautiful person. It's the looking too long in the wrong ways to the point where it makes women uncomfortable/afraid. It's something you have to teach yourself not to do because yes, it IS easy to do it without realizing it. Here's a little more on this subject:
http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-ogling-and-appreciation.html (http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-ogling-and-appreciation.html)
A woman's empowerment is very important in my opinion. But not in a sense of the world around her bearing down on her and tearing her apart with its cruelty which feminism (to me) seems to focus on almost entirely. But a woman's actual empowerment. Her natural perspective a man isn't born with (this has nothing to do with mysogony or culture), her natural grace and beauty that men aren't born with, and her ability to give life.
What happens if a woman doesn't have the natural grace and beauty you believe she should have? Also, feminism DOES focus a lot on the beauty of being a woman. The pride of being a woman. The thing is, that's not stuff that you have to argue about. Just because it hasn't come up in this argument doesn't mean it's not there. This is just one of those things where you don't know enough about the subject. The SlutWalk is a good example--on the one hand, it is a protest against rape culture. On the other hand, it's a celebration of women's sexuality.
By the way, the "ability to give life" comment? Some women aren't capable of giving birth. Trans women in particular. In the future, don't define women by having female sex organs.
You're saying I shouldn't say this shit because I'm not a woman. I'm saying women and men are two parts of a whole and you can't have one without the other. One can't ever seek and find true freedom and acceptance without the understanding and support of the other. Some feminist ideals negate this which is what I've been driving at this whole time. And I'm not specifically talking about sexuality when I say one and the other. I'm talking about the whole way of thinking, physical manifestation, your very existance whether or not you're gay straight black or what comes into two things: man or woman. Trans is still a manifestation to that because its still a mental conformity to the masculine or feminine. Though these things aren't definite and there are varying levels of masculine and feminine.
I don't believe that you have to fit into either man or woman. That's what terms like genderqueer are for. You seem to understand that masculine/feminine can be fluid, but you also seem to think that everyone is either a man or a woman, which I don't agree with.
I would GLADLY love to hear a woman tell me what she desires from a man. How she would like a man to act in her presence and treat her, as far as respect or what have you. That is not condescending to me. Thats telling me what she wants and what she finds offensive and not offensive.
Yet your response is to say "woah, stop getting so riled up, why not talk to a working woman and see how she handles misogyny, she lets it make her STRONGER instead of letting it send her into despair!"? Because that's what you told me. 'Ain't I a woman' ???
This whole. I'll tell you what I think about mysogony and how its demeaning to me but I won't hear the same thing about feminism is ignorant.
It's not a man's place to pass judgement on feminism. Sorry.
Thats sharing information and beliefs and learning from them. I don't want to tell women what to do or how to carry themselves I just wish there was a less defensive way for them to do that, that didn't exclude alot of people.
What you don't get is that women have every right to be defensive of feminism, because people like you spend all their time trying to tear it down without even understanding it (and I hate to bring this up again but it's pretty hard to call yourself knowledgable about feminism in any way if you think Margaret Atwood is a crazy old lady). Women are under attack by the society they live in. We HAVE to be defensive of our rights movement because nobody wants to give us rights. Tennessee is honestly trying to make it law that the personal information of anyone who gets an abortion must be made public. For no reason. I think it was Virginia that was trying to pass a bill saying that women who want abortions have to submit to a transvaginal ultrasound. For no reason. Meaning, if you're a rape victim, you're about to have your literal body invaded by a stranger again. Just so they can punish you for wanting an abortion. There was no medical reason to do it, a council of old white men were deciding that they were gonna shove metal up in your vagina for no reason. Our literal BODIES are under attack. Women can't get the pay they deserve. They can't get any justice if they are raped (even if you DO get a conviction, jail time is going to be barely anything). They're raised to be alert at all times because they're told they can be raped at any moment and if they don't fight hard enough nobody is going to take them seriously about it. They're treated as objects, they're given an impossible standard of beauty they can never live up to not just in fashion magazines and TV ads but in every single piece of media created. Everything a girl sees tells her "you have to look this way or else nobody ever will give any shits about you". 10 year olds are dieting. There is no reason not to be defensive about feminism because this is our fucking life. Feminism is constantly under attack from all angles from people fueled with ignorance and hate. We HAVE to defend it because nobody's going to do it for us.
I don't give enough of a shit to go out and try to be a male feminist leader. Not because I don't give a shit about womens rights just because I hate arguing about it but I'm tired of seeing the same shit over and over and over again. Its effectively done nothing because MOST WOMEN ignore conventional feminism to that extent (from my experience). And I really doubt thats because of sheer ignorance but the exclusion itself.
I never said you were trying to be a feminist leader. I said you were trying to tell women how to run feminism in this discussion. Which you are, considering the whole "stop being so defensive" and "why do you focus so much on THESE things". I want you to know that just because this is JUST ME for the most part posting, all of the things I've discussed are things I've learned from larger feminist discussions. These are things I've learned from other women with the same goals and concerns as I have who just want a better life for us and any future daughters we have. And sorry, we really don't need you telling us how we should be doing things. We have our own brains and our own ideas of how we need to fight for our own freedom. Your posts so far have been implying that you really don't give a shit about women's rights, so I find it hard to believe you do. As for women ignoring feminism, a lot of it IS ignorance, both about the abuse they suffer (it's hard to tell how oppressive the world around you is when that's normal everyday life for you. A lot of slaves in the past didn't see what the big deal was about being a slave either) and about feminism itself (people don't understand that feminism is about giving women the choice to do what they want. Some people think that feminists are against women being stay-at-home moms, for example, which isn't true). Sometimes it's not ignorance, but internalized misogyny. Also, a lot of women don't label themselves as feminists while still being completely in agreement with feminism. That's because feminism is a dirty word. Ever heard feminazi? Women are terrified of labeling themselves as a feminist for fear of the backlash against both men and women with a lot of internalized misogyny. I was for a long time, but I changed my mind on that. Note that because of people like you constantly berating feminism it's even harder to convince women to label themselves as such, again even if they totally agree.
I read somewhere about a new age feminism or a new perception of feminism (developed by women) that focused on this but I can't remember the details or where I got it from. But that kind of empowerment to me as a human being and not a man is so much more powerful than victimizing yourself and blaming society for oppression and not actually finding a way to deal with and overcome it. To me its not dealing with anything its not empowering yourself at all its putting up walls. Like a victim to me can't overcome the thing victimizing her. You have to personally refuse to aknowledge it as a victim in my opinion.
Don't tell women what they do and don't find powerful. TONS of women have found power they previously didn't felt through the feminist movement. You cannot base your own experiences on this because (say it with me) | | | you are not a woman | | |. You're showing how little you truly understood and learned in this paragraph anyway. "Victimizing yourself" is blaming women for the society that abuses them. "Blaming society"? So you think women just up and decided to be oppressed all on their own? Unless you'd rather I blame men, but that would be inaccurate and I think more objectionable to you anyway. Or do you think oppression just sort of happens all on its own? Women ARE finding ways to overcome our oppression. I guess you just aren't interested in hearing or reading about that, because you'd rather try to pick apart whether or not women are oppressed in the first place. Also, for someone who was preaching about the beauty of women, you sure don't seem to want women to embrace that and find empowerment as a woman instead of just as a person. Either way, we're still women, and if we don't embrace that part of ourselves then it's a useless exercise.
This whole idea that society is out to get you. Society is a machine, media is a cog, these things in the bigger sense of life aren't as important as actual people and what actual people think and believe about themselves regardless of society and media or their own physical manifestation. That is what needs to be focused on and conveyed through speech, art, individualism. When you define yourself by society and media you're limiting all of that greater meaning and pursuit. Fuck what society and media tells you if you focus on what it tells you less shit gets done.
The actual people are raised in society. You cannot separate society from its people entirely. It shapes the very way our brains function. We have to try to change society, and we do that by changing people. That's why we have these discussions. Also you are TOTALLY underestimating media if you honestly think you can just ignore it. It's subconscious. You don't KNOW the way it's affecting you when it is, and it's incredibly naive for you to think you're above it. Nobody is above it. Especially when it comes to children. Children see these messages every single day. They sink in. There's nothing you can do about it unless you live in the wilderness and never speak to anyone. It's embedded in our media, it's embedded in our language. You can't just ignore it. If you want to DO anything about the media, you have to actually know what's wrong with it or it can't be changed. Most people don't realize male gaze until it is pointed out to them. You have to be aware of it to try to fight it and move past it. You have this idea that feminists just sit around pointing out the problems then taking a nap. We point out the problems so something can be DONE about it. There are a lot of daily interactions between men and women that make women incredibly uncomfortable and the men don't even know, because if the roles were reversed it wouldn't bother the men (because the men haven't had the experience of living as a woman). But, when it's pointed out, they realize it and they are more careful from then on. That's change. You can't fight male gaze without knowing about it, you can't fight rape culture without knowing about it, you can't fight slurs without understanding why they're hurtful. You're focusing too much on just the pointing it out side without focusing on the rest, then blaming feminism for doing the same. YOU'RE the one reducing feminism to this, but feminism is a lot more than you're giving it credit for. You don't see the friendly chats between women where they get actual support. You don't see the conversation that takes place within WOMEN-dominated spaces. You just see the arguments with men to try to get them to understand why it's even important in the first place. And you don't. You've already written it off and decided you don't care anymore because your view of what feminism should be isn't the same as what women think it should be. Which of these views is more important?
As a last note, I've already explained to you why it's feminism and not humanism. Of course, that was a link to feminism 101 and you probably didn't read it because god forbid I link to an outside source. Feminism does not EXCLUDE other types of activism. I also fight for LGBT rights, I also furiously defend people of color. I defend the disabled. I defend everyone I damn well can. But these all have their own problems. They all have their own movements and their own struggles. Just because I'm a feminist doesn't mean I'm not also fighting for them too. You don't have to just fight for one thing. Trying to put it under a single humanism struggle is doing them all a disservice. Being gay is a lot different than being a woman. Being disabled is a lot different than being a PoC. They all have their own issues that need to be handled differently, so they've all got their own fights--but you can be in as many anti-oppression armies as you want, and I am. You should do some reading about intersectionality. It's essentially the idea that all of these forms of oppression are interconnected, and you really CAN'T just fight one (though how you decide to divide up your effort is up to you). You can't fight for womens rights without also fighting for LGBT rights, because there are women there. There are disabled women. There are black women. There are asian women. Heck, even straight and gay men are hurt by the patriarchy, so you can't fight to end that without also helping them too.
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There was a woman giving a speech once and at the end she said she'd take 2 more questions. After those three questions, the women in the audience put their hands down. The men didn't. She continued to take their questions without even realizing the problem. Our society is programmed to value the opinions of men and not women. Men are told from birth that what they have to say matters and women are told the opposite. To say that your opinion needs to be heard in matters of feminism is exerting that privilege you've been given. We've taken enough questions from you Farren, it's time to put your hand down. It's time for women to be heard for once.
e: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=18uDutylDa4#t=537s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=18uDutylDa4#t=537s) here's the story, starting at 9:00 if it doesn't take you there automatically.
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Taking my first Driving test. I'm 23... *shrug*
Not exactly too worried about passing. Yet despite that I still have mild jitters.
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Taking my first Driving test. I'm 23... *shrug*
Not exactly too worried about passing. Yet despite that I still have mild jitters.
Good luck! Are you taking the written test or the actual driving test? Either way they're not too rough.
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"That form of feminism" means "feminism with which I disagree", which happens to be the same view that mainstream feminist authors share. Farren just doesn't really think there's much of a problem at all, and it's just a few bad apples and if you focus on anything more than that, you're just a fossil.
Yeah, I've said it before and I'll readily admit there's not much value to me saying this, but that's just typical. A man who doesn't understand misogyny and doesn't think women have much of a complaint. Nobody's surprised.
Here we have two members of different oppressed groups, Vellfire and Faust, telling Farren that what he's saying is just plain wrong (Faust even gave a ton of examples of how many different forms of oppression exist, and how they should not be conflated) and that was mostly just ignored. I'll say it again: here we have someone who doesn't know what he's talking about flat out claiming that Vellfire and Faust, who both have extensive personal experience, are plain wrong in what they're saying. Even saying there's not much of a systemic problem, period.
It kind of reminds me of political cartoons of obscenely rich people getting their taxes increased and saying to the poor worker that they're going through rough times as well, so they totally understand their despair. Or Donald Trump saying "I have a lot of gay friends, and I think it's fantastic, but I'm against gay marriage." Yeah, in that same way, Farren says "I talk to women about misogyny a lot, and I think it's very important, but I think you should just keep your head down and take it and let it make you stronger."
That's not the attitude of someone who cares.
nice! you're totally dominating farren. yes, yes, tell me how bad he is some more, send me over the edge!!
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nice! you're totally dominating farren. yes, yes, tell me how bad he is some more, send me over the edge!!
shut up about this already dude, if you wanna fight with dada do it in pm
Don't discredit valid points about Farren's views of feminism just because you wanna jab at Dada. This is serious shit.
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you're making great points about feminism and misogyny on your own. but dada just waltzed in and for some reason felt the need to tell everyone how bad farren is and dominate him some more. how was this necessary? he introduced absolutely nothing new, so don't act like I'm making light of the subject. posts like that that help keep the point from sinking in. I already PMed him and he seems to have adjusted his language at least, which is an improvement I guess but he still really likes to pound his chest
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you're making great points about feminism and misogyny on your own. but dada just waltzed in and for some reason felt the need to tell everyone how bad farren is and dominate him some more. how was this necessary? he introduced absolutely nothing new, so don't act like I'm making light of the subject. posts like that that help keep the point from sinking in. I already PMed him and he seems to have adjusted his language at least, which is an improvement I guess but he still really likes to pound his chest
And your personal problems with Dada have nothing to do with this conversation, so stop it. He WAS pointing out what Farren was doing and the fact that he had members of two minority groups telling him What's Up and completely dismissing it for his own privileged viewpoints. His post had far more value than yours which are just berating him. I don't care what you feel about Dada but don't shit up this discussion just to go "LOL DADA YOU SURE SHOWED HIM ! ! !" when Dada's been contributing a lot of useful stuff to it the whole time.
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all of that's already been said, and none of it was necessary to be repeated other than, as I said, in trying to dominate farren some more.
I wasn't pretending to contribute to this discussion, it was a new post about him showing everyone who's got the biggest e-dick. this is the what's on your mind thread. remember, the conversation started between DDay and fuckcrypt because dday called penguins fans fags.
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all of that's already been said, and none of it was necessary to be repeated other than, as I said, in trying to dominate farren some more.
I wasn't pretending to contribute to this discussion, it was a new post about him showing everyone who's got the biggest e-dick. this is the what's on your mind thread. remember, the conversation started between DDay and fuckcrypt because dday called penguins fans fags.
It IS pretty important to repeat these things, especially when it's a case of someone refusing to listen.
Maybe the what's on your mind thread isn't the best place to fight with someone though. This has nothing to do with the arguments, this has to do with bickering between you and Dada and it doesn't need to be public. It's probably better if you two just ignore each other entirely.
But no, this has nothing to do with e-dicks (huh, interesting, dicks are associated with power...just a side note there for everyone to take note of). Dada genuinely cares about this issue, this has nothing to do with his ego. Just stop it. Don't shit up the forums with bickering this is dumb christ.
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(http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2012/04/21/e3801b6ed676fabc56eab4a9c47b735f.gif)
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I will just drop it, but I don't think my point is invalid. I wish someone else would make it. and yes, I realize the connection with dick and power and pounding your chest and dominance.
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Nope... I made a bone headed move and failed my driving test. Lets just leave it at that. :(
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Tests in different countries probably differ, in the UK you can drive as long as you have a provisional and someone in the passenger seat who has had a valid license for x number of years. So this advice might be meaningless but w/e.
I learnt to drive one summer. I only had 17 lessons but I had the benefit of my dad coming home from work then taking me out for 30 minute drives each night (probably to seek peace away from my mother). It was a good experience and the number of hours I clocked up enabled me to pass with 2 minors first time. I guess having lots of hours makes you a lot more confident in the test. It's a lot like playing a video game really!
My driving instructor pulled me over once and he said "Hey Ed, do you know what they invented here?" and I was like "...whaaaat"? and he shouts "DOGGING!". Hilarious. I really hope he doesn't say that to women.
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i believe i failed the test my first time through. something stupid like not signaling during the k-turn.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQu_TppNFRY
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http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-ogling-and-appreciation.html
These are all generalizations of men. They're all assuming men wholly accept that which they do not. They're enforcing false ideas of the traditional oppressive gender role.
I am not a man that does or believes this shit is ok so what I have to agree with feminism because there is no alternative and if I don't agree with feminism I'm a mysogonist.
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I am not a man that does or believes this shit is ok so what I have to agree with feminism because there is no alternative and if I don't agree with feminism I'm a mysogonist.
Pretty much, namaste!
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http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-ogling-and-appreciation.html
These are all generalizations of men. They're all assuming men wholly accept that which they do not. They're enforcing false ideas of the traditional oppressive gender role.
Listen to yourself. After finally reading a blog post on one of the ways that women get mistreated, your only reaction is simply to not believe it a word of it. This blog post isn't even very controversial. It very succinctly states that you shouldn't visibly and noticeably stare at someone in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable, and it asserts that people do so.
Did she just make that up, according to you? Do men not stare at women's breasts, even when they know they're aware of it? Does none of this ever happen? Does she ever say that all men do it, or just generally that there are men who do it?
The article goes on to give tips on how to be less of a massive creep and states that it's okay to look at people as long as you're doing it in a respectable way. How is that in any way controversial?
The problem here is that you're so immensely skeptical of anything women have to say that you simply can't even begin to empathize with their problems. As far as you're concerned, it doesn't really matter how much Vellfire complains, or how much Faust complains, or how much the feminist blog posts complain: you flat-out don't buy it. If you care about women, and I'm sure that deep down inside you do, then the right thing to do is not to cross your arms and say "all of you are wrong and I'm right", but at least to say "this is all new to me, but let me think about it". You have to be open to the possibility that your experiences are too limited, though not due to any fault of your own, to fully appreciate the level of abuse that women face. You have to be open to say "I've never seen any of the abuses that you've mentioned to me, but I'll take your word for it because you should know".
I am not a man that does or believes this shit is ok so what I have to agree with feminism because there is no alternative and if I don't agree with feminism I'm a mysogonist.
If you "disagree with feminism", you disagree with women setting their own terms for their emancipation. That's pretty misogynistic.
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Broken record much?
I wish there were still more creative people about here. We had some great creative minds here and the whole place has collapsed into one aggressive, monotonous topic of conversation.
What are people making right now?
How's the job going?
Got any cool shoes?
Is anyone watching the Formula 1 or are you too disgusted with Bernie and the "King" of Bahrain?
I'm getting myself back into programming with Unity and I've forgotten so much it's embarrassing. I have a cool johnny-quest style terrain going on for my crappo LD48 attempt.
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Broken record much?
YEESH SICK OF YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT WHY FEMINISM IS IMPORTANT WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT SHOES
You can talk about whatever you want but you don't have to disvalue the current conversation thx
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Broken record much?
Posting to remind everyone of Ed's views on women:
So most of the content in this thread is relationship advice from someone who has only ever been loved by a puppy who I hope is secretly a misogynistic animal because that would just be wonderful.
*bitter vagina whiff onslaught*
Now excuse me I have to go rub peanut butter on my vagina.
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gettin so sick of all these women and their hysterical whining...
e: all these women being me
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Equality is important, balls to feminism. I've had enough aggressive feminism to last me a lifetime!
That's right. I'd rather talk about shoes. That's how bad it's got. And it's DE-value can't you even talk proper American. Jesus H Christ.
I'm joking I'm just taking the piss I'm joking calm down calm down calm down.
<<aggressive reply incoming, proceeding to ocean floor lair>>
Edit: WHOA holy crap that's a lot of aggression before I even pressed post.
Aggression.
(aggression).
Edit2: I don't think I'm angry enough to type fast enough to keep up the pace with you two. If this were a village I imagine I'd have been chased across the heath and imprisoned inside a giant burning wicker woman.
Edit3: I think you're just vulnerable to bad jokes and you got a judgement and a grudge against me because I jokingly accused you of bestiality. I don't hate women I promise. I recognise that in smf_members the field misogynist is set to 1 now and I can't do anything about it because I'm not admin but I would if I could. I just think it's all very aggressive and ridiculous (aggressive) and I want you to know I don't care what your gender is and I would probably say the same stupid things to a guy also. I'm... I'm just not as well brought up as you guys.
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lol just takin the piss. just jokin. gosh i don't get why you women don't find this sort of joking so funny ! ! !
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just jokin...just joshin...why you gettin so mad???
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it was really funny when you joked about how nobody would ever love me but my dog and how i'm just a hysterical woman with my dang vagina and all i really don't get why you'd be so offended when i whine about feminism??? why you gettin so MAD???
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Wow, I am a opretty drunk admittedly but I have to intervene here:
earlchip: i still think you're a cool dude and like I know we had BADPAST but you're someone whose heart is in the right place and I think we're totally pasty all our shit, but like I think it's inappropriate to attack dada in this context - I can understand why, i mean i used to take every advantage to take vengeance upon people (I AM STILL WAIT FOR YOU ALEC COME BACK WE HAVE UNFINISH BUSINESS!!!!). You've already dropped it I know, which is really admirable, I just needed to post in support of dada really. don\'t let beef cloud the issue - yuo're a better person than that by a long ways. Again, when you realise how similar in outlook on many issues you are to dada you'll turn round and wonder about this!!! It's really shitty when the GOOD GUYS (EMOTIVE OH NO) attack each other.
ed: you're actively being a dick, and I don't really understand why. If you think there aren';t creative people around still then you're deluded.
Aggressive feminism? that's the same bullshit used to describe like MILITANT HOMOSEXUALITY, when both are actually issues which are WORTH being aggressive/militant about. aggression and militancy in this context are completely acceptable.
OH SHIT I just realise you'rej oking in that last post, disregard in that instance, sprry. But yeah fuck you for CREATIVE REMARK you wwanna read my novel buddy it's three thousand words of CLICHE TRIPE so farQ!!!!!!
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Wow, I am a opretty drunk admittedly but I have to intervene here:
earlchip: i still think you're a cool dude and like I know we had BADPAST but you're someone whose heart is in the right place and I think we're totally pasty all our shit, but like I think it's inappropriate to attack dada in this context - I can understand why, i mean i used to take every advantage to take vengeance upon people (I AM STILL WAIT FOR YOU ALEC COME BACK WE HAVE UNFINISH BUSINESS!!!!). You've already dropped it I know, which is really admirable, I just needed to post in support of dada really. don\'t let beef cloud the issue - yuo're a better person than that by a long ways. Again, when you realise how similar in outlook on many issues you are to dada you'll turn round and wonder about this!!! It's really shitty when the GOOD GUYS (EMOTIVE OH NO) attack each other.
ed: you're actively being a dick, and I don't really understand why. If you think there aren';t creative people around still then you're deluded.
Aggressive feminism? that's the same bullshit used to describe like MILITANT HOMOSEXUALITY, when both are actually issues which are WORTH being aggressive/militant about. aggression and militancy in this context are completely acceptable.
OH SHIT I just realise you'rej oking in that last post, disregard in that instance, sprry. But yeah fuck you for CREATIVE REMARK you wwanna read my novel buddy it's three thousand words of CLICHE TRIPE so farQ!!!!!!
Hahaha PASTY
Edit: also I'm going to type this slowly and correct shit because I realised I sounded like DDay in that last post (I love you DDay not a negative but I am not as POSTMODERN in my outlook).
Ed: You say things as a joke, but if they hurt people like Vell then you need to step back and examine the need to say them.
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I'm now haunted by the imagery of a burning wicker woman.
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ed considering you were the second worst poster in the thread that made me leave (second only to inri so holy shit that's pretty bad) you need to stop and consider whether you need to come into something like this and say WOAH BROKEN RECORD MUCH??? YEESH YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GET SOOOO AGGRESSIVE OVER THIS NOW
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woah yeesh edits
I think you're just vulnerable to bad jokes and you got a judgement and a grudge against me because I jokingly accused you of bestiality. I don't hate women I promise. I recognise that in smf_members the field misogynist is set to 1 now and I can't do anything about it because I'm not admin but I would if I could. I just think it's all very aggressive and ridiculous (aggressive) and I want you to know I don't care what your gender is and I would probably say the same stupid things to a guy also. I'm... I'm just not as well brought up as you guys.
vulnerable to bad jokes that you keep making and never apologize for. sure sounds like you care! i'm not sure what's funny about "YOU FUCK YOUR DOG AND NOBODY BUT YOUR DOG LOVES YOU ALSO SHUT UP YOU WHINING VAGINA" is, but i can certainly tell you it's a fucking hateful one. it's not up to you to tell me how to react to things, and when you make a hateful and hurtful joke you don't get to go LOL WELL I WAS JUST JOKIN SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT STOP HOLDIN A GRUDGE HEH I DON'T REALLY HATE WOMEN I JUST THINK SAYING HORRIBLY SEXIST THINGS IS TOTALLY FINE AND FUNNY NO MATTER WHAT THE WOMAN IN QUESTION SAYS. if you seriously gave a shit you'd consider my fucking feelings for two seconds instead of blowing them off as me being sensitive and apologize, but no you're going to keep defending jokes that are just two steps above inri's outright hateful comments while being totally dismissive about the whole thing. yeah, i'm sure you're totally not misogynistic at all and you definitely do care about me. i have every right to be "aggressive" because you're a huge asshole.
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i should have said all of this to you when you first made those comments but i was too busy trying not to barf
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if you don't hate women then quit acting like someone who does.
e: i don't hate women i just make really horrible "jokes" at them then get upset when they say anything about how bad they are and tell them it's their own fault for not appreciating my ~*~hilarious~*~ humor at their expense. gosh. women need to grow a pair amiright? it totally has nothing to do with being a woman even though every single part of the joke was gendered.
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If you think I said those comments in all seriousness then that's your problem because you'd have to slightly nuts to think that I was genuinely insinuating you do such ridiculous things. This isn't the apology you want and I'm sorry! If I had known you'd take it the wrong way then I would never have said those things.
Do you genuinely believe that I wanted to deeply offend and hurt you? - I'm betting on no but that's for you to say. I didn't want to and I doubt I did in reality but only you will really know.
Excuse me for not being overly apologetic when I have blundered into opening the door for your manufactured offence and hyperbole.
I honestly don't care what your gender is and I think you have the capacity to be a lot more hateful than I have to be an idiot. Regardless of all this crap, I wish you well. I really do.
I won't read the wall of text that follows because this is an argument that will go on forever. I am genuinely sorry for what I said but there are some things I cannot apologise for and that I believe in strongly. I hope that you understand that it was not my intent to offend you.
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i am starting to form a typology of non-apologies. this one's an "i'm sorry you were offended", always a classic.
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It's not I'm sorry you're offended it's I'm completely amazed that was considered a real insult by someone who has a brain.
Nope, it's deeper than that.
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I'm sorry you were offended with your manufactured offense. You're nuts if you think the really awful things I said were offensive, but somehow I want you to think I'm sorry.
(no, I did not think you were serious, I knew they were jokes but they were REALLY AWFUL HURTFUL JOKES)
fuck off with your nonapology, until you realize why what you said was wrong to say and why my negative feelings are justified, you're not capable of making an actual apology. considering how much focus you're putting on how i'm just being sensitive and pretending to be offended (dude, i was hurt enough to fucking leave the forums for a while, you weren't the only one but you were a BIG PART OF IT, guess I'm making this all up on principle though ! ! !) and how you were just joking and how it's all my fault for not liking your joke, i severely doubt you really get what's wrong with what you've said and what you're saying. fuck that.
e: you posted again so let me say that it doesn't matter whether i thought that was a real insult or an "ironic" one. it hurts just as bad either way, and someone who i considered to be a bud really shouldn't be making that sort of deeply personal comment even "ironically". you're STILL insulting me right now, implying i don't have a brain in my noggin. you're STILL not considering how this hurt me, you're just focusing on how i took your precious joke. you're still not apologizing for actually hurting me in any way. you haven't learned anything.
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It's not I'm sorry you're offended it's I'm completely amazed that was considered a real insult by someone who has a brain.
yes if you're offended by misogynistic jokes/insults (which aren't really any different from anti-gay or racist jokes fyi) you must not have a brain.
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I'M SORRY...
.... SORRY YOU'RE SO EASILY OFFENDED!
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why in the WORLD would you make a joke like that in a "nice" way? don't forget the context of the conversation too. inri was harassing me like usual, then you come in and say a bunch of really horrible things towards me, then you come back in and tell me that i shouldn't be bothered by inri's constant harassment (which is bullshit because it's not on me to put up with it, it's on him to either not do it and get out and that's why he's banned). i tell you you said horrible things to me, then you gave a totally dismissive non-apology. then later you PRAISE INRI for being able to upset me so easily and get upset that nobody can "make jokes" (hint: hurtful sexist "jokes"), then you think it's wrong that inri got banned for what he did. fuck, i can't even go through any more of the thread to see what happened next because this is all horrible enough on its own.
e: let's even forget what you meant by the joke. at the point when i told you the joke wasn't cool, that is when you, as a supposed bud of mine, should have apologized sincerely and agreed not to do it again. when you start defending jokes that hurt people, you turn into the world's largest asshole and it's evidence that you don't give a shit.
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dude you seriously talked about how smart inri was for being able to get at me. would you say that to someone bullying a gay teenager by calling him faggot every single time he sees him? because inri did this sort of shit every other time i posted anything. you don't go up to the bully and tell him what a good job he did at bullying, then tell the victim they were just being too sensitive and JOIN IN on harassing them, but then say "no, you see, i don't REALLY hate gay kids, i'm calling you faggot IRONICALLY. we're buds, right?"
this is you. this is what you did.
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A bad joke backfired and got used as ammo to win another argument about your insensitive treatment of Malad, the subject of which became entirely peripheral with the goal of winning the argument. It was PERFECT ammunition to back up your feminism studies showcase which you reeled off, pretty harshly to a guy who was posting feeling on-the-edge.
I hand you a full clip, I'm not apologising for that.
You are transparent. So what if you have support from the god damn feminism brigade of SW?
Someone post some art or something whilst this crap perpetuates itself.
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god forbid there's a brigade of people who give a shit about women
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you seriously think that i was glad you made those comments so that i'd have ammo to use in an argument. you probably think i love this argument going on right now. dude, i fucking left the site. i had anxiety attacks because of that thread. i got nauseous reading what you wrote. i had to LEAVE because what was going on was freaking me the fuck out. you don't know anything about my reasons for doing what i do. you don't give a shit about what my feelings really are about this, you just go on assuming that you know better and you know my real intentions and not considering what the consequences of your words are.
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only two good things came out of that thread: inri got banned and i decided to seek therapy for anxiety. the fucking nightmare spiral i was going through during it wasn't a very fun side effect though.
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Can we just agree to disagree and hate each others guts in peace yet or do you want to keep going? (I don't actually hate you, you probably know this, you can just hate my guts).
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i hate your guts because you treated me like shit then want me to laugh it off instead of being upset about it. we can resolve this but you're gonna need to do a whole lot more on your end than you have been doing.
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There's nothing I can do to dig myself out of that hole let's be honest.
I can promise to be nice to you though. I can honestly, in a non sarcastic and horrible way say that I will be nice to you.
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A bad joke backfired and got used as ammo to win another argument about your insensitive treatment of Malad, the subject of which became entirely peripheral with the goal of winning the argument. It was PERFECT ammunition to back up your feminism studies showcase which you reeled off, pretty harshly to a guy who was posting feeling on-the-edge.
I hand you a full clip, I'm not apologising for that.
You are transparent. So what if you have support from the god damn feminism brigade of SW?
Someone post some art or something whilst this crap perpetuates itself.
okay.
you're unapologetically making misogynistic insults. insults based on gender. which, as I pointed out, aren't too different from racist or anti-gay insults. we're never tolerated racism here and inri's ban should have given you an inkling that misogyny isn't going to, either.
keep that in mind before you sit down to type your next vitriolic post. consider this as much of a warning as you'll get.
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There's nothing I can do to dig myself out of that hole let's be honest.
you have yet to really sincerely apologize (you've just apologize for me being offended, not for what you actually did). that'd be a good start. promising to not do it again is helpful too, so that's good.
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You'd never know if I was being sincere if I did! It'd be nice for a good resolution to this than just holding resentment. I think if you pretend I sincerely apologised and I act like I did then we can get back on track.
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so instead of literally just saying "I'm sorry I hurt you I will try not to do this in the future" you're going to tell me to pretend like you did. christ it's not that hard.
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I'm sorry I did that and I'll try not to hurt you in future.
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Apology accepted. As far as I'm concerned, innocent until proven guilty from this point. If you're sincere, then this won't be a problem again, so I'm going to assume you're sincere unless you give me a reason not to. We're good.
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earlchip: i still think you're a cool dude and like I know we had BADPAST but you're someone whose heart is in the right place and I think we're totally pasty all our shit, but like I think it's inappropriate to attack dada in this context - I can understand why, i mean i used to take every advantage to take vengeance upon people (I AM STILL WAIT FOR YOU ALEC COME BACK WE HAVE UNFINISH BUSINESS!!!!). You've already dropped it I know, which is really admirable, I just needed to post in support of dada really. don\'t let beef cloud the issue - yuo're a better person than that by a long ways. Again, when you realise how similar in outlook on many issues you are to dada you'll turn round and wonder about this!!! It's really shitty when the GOOD GUYS (EMOTIVE OH NO) attack each other.
I appreciate it faust, but it's not stupid beef or vengeance. there was an important point
edit: but I am quitting it entirely. you won't see anything more from me on this subject unless it's a supplementary point about misogyny or homophobia. I can't be involved anymore.
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this forum fucking sucks, go fucking die in hell ed, farren, earlchip
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this forum fucking sucks, go fucking die in hell ed, farren, earlchip
some of us are cool (me)
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Equality is important, balls to feminism. I've had enough aggressive feminism to last me a lifetime!
That's right. I'd rather talk about shoes. That's how bad it's got. And it's DE-value can't you even talk proper American. Jesus H Christ.
I'm joking I'm just taking the piss I'm joking calm down calm down calm down.
<<aggressive reply incoming, proceeding to ocean floor lair>>
Edit: WHOA holy crap that's a lot of aggression before I even pressed post.
Aggression.
(aggression).
Edit2: I don't think I'm angry enough to type fast enough to keep up the pace with you two. If this were a village I imagine I'd have been chased across the heath and imprisoned inside a giant burning wicker woman.
Edit3: I think you're just vulnerable to bad jokes and you got a judgement and a grudge against me because I jokingly accused you of bestiality. I don't hate women I promise. I recognise that in smf_members the field misogynist is set to 1 now and I can't do anything about it because I'm not admin but I would if I could. I just think it's all very aggressive and ridiculous (aggressive) and I want you to know I don't care what your gender is and I would probably say the same stupid things to a guy also. I'm... I'm just not as well brought up as you guys.
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this forum fucking sucks, go fucking die in hell ed, farren, earlchip
sorry. keep up the good work.
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This is where I won't budge and you keep railing against my beliefs thinking I don't have the EXACT SAME perception of what a woman's oppression is. 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You're saying I shouldn't say this shit because I'm not a woman. I'm saying women and men are two parts of a whole and you can't have one without the other. One can't ever seek and find tre limiting you less shit gets done.
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TH3 ULT1IM4T3 E QUALITYY : BOTH MEN DIE
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kill all men imo
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someone very interested in the topic mentioned to me that you could probably make a super ebola that's genetically engineered to only target people with y chromosome. equality is within our grasp. well, not my grasp, I'll be dead.
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you're a good man biggles, i'll put a bullet through your head before you can suffer the virus. you've done good lad.
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W DON'T SUCK COCKS, ONLY SUCK MARRO0W
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FUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. MAYBE IT;S NOT EVEN POSIBLE FOR YOU TO EVVER GET IT. MAYBR YOU SHOULD JUST DIE THEN (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif)(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4903/die.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6246/deadbody.gif) BROTOWN IS MY STOCKYARD AND MAN IS MY MEAT
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OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)OOSSPSS SORY DID I OFFEND YOU??? 222 BAD LOLL!!11
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3834/subhuman.gif)
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uhm excuse me but that is misandry -_-'''
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holy shit
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this is the route i should have taken instead
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if you accept some people, you de facto exclude others. if you accept people who make gross and hostile misogynistic/racist comments you are pushing out others who have zero tolerance for that kind of bullshit. i find it fucking gross to be around and if you don't understand why people like me have zero tolerance for it then you obviously just haven't experienced being the brunt of it. there are plenty of spaces where people like that can say whatever they want. misogyny is very accepted (=the norm) in most spaces. on the other hand, there are very few safe spaces. which kind of space do you want to be?
fuckcrypt never forget 2012
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privilege: when I can read through an outpouring of hatred against a group that ostensibly includes me, smile and think "heh".
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I don't think you want farren and dday to be banned for not getting the point, though. please don't glorify this. it's really depressing.
edit
i stepped in only cuz i value the stuff on this forum but wanted to express my reservations about the racism/misogynistic attacks on ppl that seem to sometimes happen. i think it's a good sign of a community when a conversation like this happens cause usually ppl dont want to deal with it at all.
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point taken.
edit: i mean, i'm not just talking about male privilege there, but also privilege i have comparatively to farren and dday. i can doop my way through these things with my elite education and my fancy cultural capital. who knows if i'm really any less reprehensible.
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exactly! and I didn't mean you specifically, anyone
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You know what, fuck this shit.
Done, you win. +1 for feminists everywhere. hooyah next time I see this stupid ass chain of guilt-tripping I'm running the other way.
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I had another thought/question on a sub topic of gender issues. but IDK if I should share as it almost seems like it'd open a can of worms.
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note: I'm not saying the following to demean/belittle Velfarre's enthuasism about the issue or that he has argued back but the in-between calling outs/public shaming has been redundant really! if you don't agree with this, whoever you are, then just bring it up and don't go into a berserk anger and call the whole SW a bad place. if you ain't open with convos then yer a fascist... Velfarre has made some good posts with great points about rhetorics and related misogny et all and Dada has too when he has not (or Velfarre) been calling out/made fun of somebody. You are eager to defend yourselves about supposed accusations ofc but i don't have any desire to attack or belittle anybody, i'm saying what i believe is a right thing to point out. Belittle me and be prepared to dehumanize yourself and face to more bloodshed.
I'm sure you can bring it up Warped and hopefully, this time around, there won't be worms and we can have some more good points brought up.
earl is still not against anything discussed here but the manner how antagonizing works here (likewise and fuckcrypt, i like you a lot and know your a little of your background but i don't think earl is a bad guy and groan don't leave out because of Ed and Farren cos that's a huge waste, considering that most of people here aren't outright hostile about these issues), ed is insensitive and condescending again and i don't think anybody agree's with Farren's points since it seemingly revolves around how he doesn't like how feminism is handled elsewhere (or here) based on no information (seriously dude just check your arguements. nobody's a human scum but lot of those points just doesn't add up).
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of course bonzi_buddy is the voice of reason. of course. o f c o u r s e
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BLAMMO
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note: I'm not saying the following to demean/belittle Velfarre's enthuasism about the issue or that he has argued back but the in-between calling outs/public shaming has been redundant really! if you don't agree with this, whoever you are, then just bring it up and don't go into a berserk anger and call the whole SW a bad place. if you ain't open with convos then yer a fascist... Velfarre has made some good posts with great points about rhetorics and related misogny et all and Dada has too when he has not (or Velfarre) been calling out/made fun of somebody. You are eager to defend yourselves about supposed accusations ofc but i don't have any desire to attack or belittle anybody, i'm saying what i believe is a right thing to point out. Belittle me and be prepared to dehumanize yourself and face to more bloodshed.
People who say overtly misogynistic things deserve nothing less than a public shaming. In fact all I did was accurately quote what he literally said, nothing more.
Don't belittle this discussion please, Vellfire has put in a TON of work FAR beyond what I think anybody else would have done. The only response she got was people flat-out not believing her. Farren literally hasn't moved one inch since we started. He's not just stubborn, he's practically a big marble slab with the word "misogyny" carved out. Even Faust joined in and said some of the exact same things and the response was, again, flat-out disbelief.
You're too nice a guy, you don't need to stand up and defend these people from the marginally confrontational posts that were made.
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You know what, fuck this shit.
Done, you win. +1 for feminists everywhere. hooyah next time I see this stupid ass chain of guilt-tripping I'm running the other way.
fyi I never thought you'd ever change your mind, because you're too self-important to consider you have an anything but perfect understanding of what women's lives are like. The only reason I kept posting is so that maybe someone less unreasonable would see those posts. Hopefully they will.
If you want to be serious about caring for the problems that women face, the first step is not to accuse them of lying whenever they explain what their problems are, Farren. If you can't do that, you can't be taken seriously. That has nothing to do with guilt-tripping (poor you).
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I had another thought/question on a sub topic of gender issues. but IDK if I should share as it almost seems like it'd open a can of worms.
if you don't want to start a huge derail or w/e feel free to PM me, you've been totally reasonable on these subjects because you're actually interested in learning about this stuff so i don't mind chatting it out with you
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I saw a thing on the news says that a lot of kids are adding this to their Facebook updates: {[POA]}
Means "Pissed Off Alien"
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What has an alien got to be pissed off about?
TERRIFYING FAUST WHEN NIGHT COMES?!!
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What true freedom? I believe in living 100% free and that sometimes might mean eating human meat. You will see when global famine again becomes reality (soon.) The civilization collapse does not bother me...I am the ageless rock that weathers the storm, trickles back to mineral runoff and reforms like T-1000 over million years. My ape body is becoming the broken bones and blood are becoming the mud dirt that nurture the strangling vines which hang from the ruins of your institutions. It all come to pass in 5 minutes.
[{POA}]
I found this on my teenager's website, what do I do
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contact local congressman
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rapeculture.txt
http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2012/04/ched_evans_inte (http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2012/04/ched_evans_inte)
e: christ even more of these tweets, they're all so gross
http://little-tweets-of-misogyny.tumblr.com/
http://storify.com/londonfeminist/rape-culture-in-up-to-140-characters
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What was all that stuff in this thread about? Not going to read it, also not sincerely requesting a summary (which I would not read.) Guys, DON'T LET YOUR SLAVE CASTE GET ROWDY.
I have prepared some documents for you here look at t SUMMARY:
SOCIETY UTILIZING SLAVE CASTE: SUPERIOR BENEFITS
SOCIETY NO SLAVES: NO BENEFIT
The choice is clear...but it's up to you.
Your entire generation has this problem (imagine this part in Don Draper voice.) All of our greatest monuments are made from slave bones. You can't have High Achievements if you're trying to appease the braying from the raw materials your projects are made from and we CAN go to Mars in a blood-fueled rocket by 2020.
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RODDY PIPER PUTS ON THE GLASSES AND LOOKS INTO MESMERIZING PATTERNS ON DON DRAPER'S HAIRY BARREL-CHEST:
STAY ASLEEP
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if you don't want to start a huge derail or w/e feel free to PM me, you've been totally reasonable on these subjects because you're actually interested in learning about this stuff so i don't mind chatting it out with you
fuck, made that post while sleep deprived. Don't remember what I wanted to ask...
If I remember I'll ask though.
Agh, The harder I try to remember the harder it seems to be to remember.
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of course bonzi_buddy is the voice of reason. of course. o f c o u r s e
back off or fuck off, your pick.
People who say overtly misogynistic things deserve nothing less than a public shaming. In fact all I did was accurately quote what he literally said, nothing more.
Don't belittle this discussion please, Vellfire has put in a TON of work FAR beyond what I think anybody else would have done. The only response she got was people flat-out not believing her. Farren literally hasn't moved one inch since we started. He's not just stubborn, he's practically a big marble slab with the word "misogyny" carved out. Even Faust joined in and said some of the exact same things and the response was, again, flat-out disbelief.
You're too nice a guy, you don't need to stand up and defend these people from the marginally confrontational posts that were made.
i guess this is some kind of argument game to you (is this conscious? it has got to be, it's like a minefield) so w/e, do your kinds of narratives of events to your hearts end boy. i'll stay away and let this suffocate everything.
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I fail to see how you can describe anything that's said as a "game" bonzi. It's about things that are important to people.
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Bonzi is kind of like DDay in the way that they both use awkward language to discuss things of any important or intellectual nature.
Though DDay is usually less serious in general... I think.
Hope no offense is taken, just sort of something I noticed over the years.
Edit: DDay and Bonzi aren't the only ones either. I just can't think of the others that do the same off the top of my head.
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Don't get me wrong, I appreciate their postmodern stylings when it comes to postings, and I really enjoy a lot of what both of them say. It's just that last post seemed to be really insulting when it comes to second guessing dada's motivations.
But, to be fair, he's said he's BACKING AWAY (even with the accusation of SUFFOCATING) so I'm not attacking him (fuck, YOU, I'll stop speaking about you in THIRDPERSON BONZI!!!)
I just feel that what you're saying is incorrect (how's that for a tense change, huh??)
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Well, that's unfortunate and def. the fault of my english! But i'd still rather not elaborate. There's just too many things wrong in this to a point where genuively open discussion/finding the real pronlem is impossible/would derail to hell really quickly. But: To correct Dada's view, Again, i'm not belittling Velfarre and that is either just his interpretation or I did so by mistake and mistake only. Try proving me that i did though and you'll find that i understand reason though.
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I saw a thing on the news says that a lot of kids are adding this to their Facebook updates: {[POA]}
Means "Pissed Off Alien"
I found this on my teenager's website, what do I do
What was all that stuff in this thread about? Not going to read it, also not sincerely requesting a summary (which I would not read.) Guys, DON'T LET YOUR SLAVE CASTE GET ROWDY.
I have prepared some documents for you here look at t The choice is clear...but it's up to you.
Your entire generation has this problem (imagine this part in Don Draper voice.) All of our greatest monuments are made from slave bones. You can't have High Achievements if you're trying to appease the braying from the raw materials your projects are made from and we CAN go to Mars in a blood-fueled rocket by 2020.
also all of those posts warm my heart, welcome back from space mr Chastain!!
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Yeah well, I mention the observation because it makes their posts a little harder to interpret and with topics of a important nature such as this can cause unfortunate misunderstandings. So, I give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume anything they say isn't them trying to be offensive, and I'm just misinterpreting.
Then again maybe I'm one of those people that is too nice and flexible. Arguably enabling. I don't trust my own perceptions enough to make judgements on people over the internet though, so its rare for me to make internet enemies or call someone out on something in a "I'm going to shame you" kind of way. Though Sometimes this happens anyway, I got on Facebook and got into a discussion with my aunt and she started to say shit that made no sense at all and I pointed that out and she got pissed and said "fine I just wont post responses to you anymore." I don't remember the details of the argument though.
I also remember what my question was. It was a very general one. I'm debating whether I should post it in the open of just PM Vel. I'm leaning towards just posting it in the open because upon further reflection it doesn't seem like such a big issue. However I definitely can see myself disagreeing with Vel and Dada on that particular topic and I'm a wuss and would rather not cause strife between me and them. Though, looking at my past posts one wouldn't think that was an issue before.
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Random thought came to my mind as I was publishing my last post:
What ever happened to that lady on GW that I think had her baby as an avatar (maybe it was just a baby, but I'm pretty sure the caption under it made it clear that that it was hers.)
I can't remember her name, just remembered her and its kind of a bummer she's gone since she was arguably one of the most unique members.
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Are you talking about Mamamack? I know her husband passed away, I don't know if that's about the time she stopped coming aroud or what though.
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Yeah that was the one. I didn't know her husband died. That sucks :(
Her last post was in 2010. You know when her husband died?
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Bonzi is kind of like DDay in the way that they both use awkward language to discuss things of any important or intellectual nature.
Though DDay is usually less serious in general... I think.
Hope no offense is taken, just sort of something I noticed over the years.
Edit: DDay and Bonzi aren't the only ones either. I just can't think of the others that do the same off the top of my head.
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9435/canyoutellv3.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/canyoutellv3.gif/)
Took a lot of time to get this up for what it is since Photo bucket was being a dick. Had to go to another provider to upload.
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DDay just quit this isn't a joke and you're not being funny right now. You're being a shithead.
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DDay just quit this isn't a joke and you're not being funny right now. You're being a shithead.
It is funny and life is but a joke where we all die in the end.
Also I just stopped posting about this stuff to be the better member here but I was playing around with the newer RPG maker yesterday and did that.
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Shut up DDay.
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I detecting anger. well all I did is post my lovely image and now you have to be all dragon lady about it.
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This is literally the problem. You are literally the problem right now DDay. Fuck off, I'm done trying to talk to you.
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Cool.... not mad or anything you may need some real time to Chill Your head and all.
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You're kind of actually entering into dickheaded-ness DDay. You can escape it though. Please do. :/
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Well I did make this yesterday I was seeing what Could do with the new RPG Maker VX Ace (better then VX) PS I'm not talking about this crap anymore im so over it just thought it would be funny that I made some yesterday and could related today.
Sadly I was looking at few thing and notice some attributes can't be changed into English might need to check that out.
So when it come to making monsters it's hard to pick random attribute that is in jap.
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Glad to know dicking around with RPG Maker is more important to you than maintaining friendships.
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Really not carrying about anything about this discussion I'm
Glad to know dicking around with RPG Maker is more important to you than maintaining friendships.
I'm not doing thing to break or heal if it involves that stuff we where talking about. But I hope you open your eyes and see I mean you no harm. You where just blowing this out of proportion.
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Technically its more like him valuing never having to 'say sorry' over maintaining friendships. Because he is trying to maintain it, just very poorly, his method is to *shrug* and shovel some/all of the blame onto "just dicking around". Trying to say he did not honestly mean to offend but obviously doesn't put any active effort to change his behavior.
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Technically its more like him valuing never having to 'say sorry' over maintaining friendships. Because he is trying to maintain it, just very poorly, his method is to *shrug* and shovel some of the blame onto "just dicking around". Trying to say he did not honestly mean to offend but obviously doesn't put any active effort to change his behavior.
Agreed.
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Technically its more like him valuing never having to 'say sorry' over maintaining friendships. Because he is trying to maintain it, just very poorly, his method is to *shrug* and shovel some of the blame onto "just dicking around". Trying to say he did not honestly mean to offend but obviously doesn't put any active effort to change his behavior.
Warp your not helping there was nothing wrong on what I did. If it makes you feel better you may make RPG Maker Ver. of me and slam me for all the ridiculous things I say. Love DDay
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It comes off as very socially dysfunctional dude. Which is bizarre coming from me because my IRL history is full of being a socially dysfunctional person.
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It comes off as very socially dysfunctional dude. Which is bizarre coming from me because my IRL history is full of being a socially dysfunctional person.
Well I'm just point blank dysfunctional all around when it comes to be social. On all fronts.
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Technically, you probably also aren't lying about not intending to be offensive. But you were in fact offensive, and should apologise for your mistake and at least attempt to curb you behavior. you don't have to go cold turkey of course just try to think before you post. "Road to hell is paved with good intentions" and all that.
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Or in this case "Not Bad" intentions and/or neutral intentions.
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Vellfire's response wasn't anywhere near 'dragon lady' level anyway. Just general 'pissed off lady' which was perfectly understandable. Especially, considering the exhaustive/exhausting discussion that preludes this.
I'm tempted to talk about determinism now but I'm worried in this argument/discussion it'd just... well... nevermind.
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Sorry for quadruple post, but I've grown to not like edit because of the rapid nature of this topic, people miss edits.
Well I'm just point blank dysfunctional all around when it comes to be social. On all fronts.
You can admit this, yet not bring up that this very fault of yours has caused a problem and that it should be apologized for? Or are you suggesting it as an excuse? As in "its not my fault! I'm socially dysfunctional!" That isn't very practical or logical. Determinism shouldn't be used as a crutch in matters like this. (as much as I like determinism overall)
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Vellfire's response wasn't anywhere near 'dragon lady' level anyway. Just general 'pissed off lady' which was perfectly understandable. Especially, considering the exhaustive/exhausting discussion that preludes this.
I'm tempted to talk about determinism now but I'm worried in this argument/discussion it'd just... well... nevermind.
Well I was not seeing it from that I stopped reading about that for ages Just saw my name come up so figured I should make my appearance.
Well warp I will say I'm sorry I can not apologize for something that goes against my viewpoints. So sadly I could only provide a sorry for the lack of one.
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Sorry for the insult but that is incredibly stupid. What viewpoints exactly? *reads DDay's past posts* I see no noble cause worth arguing for.
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Let's just say, DDay, that your picture post was ill-timed. I'll admit I'd gotten a bit steamed up as well, forgetting that Vell's fight against misogyny and mine against homophobia are really two facets of the same thing, not two separate issues each of us has a monopoly on combating. So I suggest we ALL take a breather.
And one more question . . .
Does it really matter who started it or who said what when? If preserving your friendship is indeed what's most important, it might be time to set aside everything and start afresh.
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I don't feel I did wrong she might of not liked my gif. But this world if full of shit like that. We all get offended and i will never care how many are in the corner pointing telling me I'm wrong. It will not change for being me.
Anyway we all get offended on different thing hell if I tried to hide myself form all the thing that offend me I would be some hermit. But I Learn to deal.
Let's just say, DDay, that your picture post was ill-timed. I'll admit I'd gotten a bit steamed up as well, forgetting that Vell's fight against misogyny and mine against homophobia are really two facets of the same thing, not two separate issues each of us has a monopoly on combating. So I suggest we ALL take a breather.
And one more question . . .
Does it really matter who started it or who said what when? If preserving your friendship is indeed what's most important, it might be time to set aside everything and start afresh.
Agreed on both Front's it was bit ill-timed.
Kind of funny the topic is called chill your heads and we are brunning up.
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"The world is full of shit" is not an excuse to treat people in a shitty way.
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"The world is full of shit" is not an excuse to treat people in a shitty way.
Well im not treating you like one or others so can we drop this......Puppy dog face.
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Both of you, stop it! DDay, stop being defensive; while it may seem to you that you've done nothing wrong, the other person might see the situation differently. Vell, please try to calm down- staying angry isn't going to improve anything.
I'm not suggesting that anyone pretend it never happened- such a thing is impossible- but that it's possible to move on. That's really what forgiveness is about- not absolving the other person of wrong but breaking our own entanglements with the feelings keeping us trapped.
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Tell you what I'll drop say what you will I'll be gone for a bit.
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I certainly hadn't meant to insult you in turn and I'm sorry if I did. I'm going to step away from the keyboard myself. See you around.
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(http://www.reflexstock.com/stock-photo-image/African-American-man-eating-popcorn-and-33912706-0.jpg)(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/keeweeboy/keeweeboy1002/keeweeboy100200183/6469261-man-eating-popcorn.jpg)(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/11/26/popcorn460.jpeg)(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/logoboom/logoboom1104/logoboom110400005/9272887-young-couple-in-cinema-movie-theater-laughing-while-watching-comedy-show.jpeg)
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(http://secxtanx.com/dump/cantmoveface/SexismIsOver.gif)
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How did it automatically become sexism?
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your post wasn't i just thought that pic was a fitting conclusion to this whole saga
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also i will use any excuse to post that gif
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What was all that stuff in this thread about? Not going to read it, also not sincerely requesting a summary (which I would not read.) Guys, DON'T LET YOUR SLAVE CASTE GET ROWDY.
I have prepared some documents for you here look at t The choice is clear...but it's up to you.
Your entire generation has this problem (imagine this part in Don Draper voice.) All of our greatest monuments are made from slave bones. You can't have High Achievements if you're trying to appease the braying from the raw materials your projects are made from and we CAN go to Mars in a blood-fueled rocket by 2020.
kanye west appears at press conference wearing controversial slave bone necklace. when called on it kanye begins to mumble and stutter. only audible word is "haters"
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i guess this is some kind of argument game to you (is this conscious? it has got to be, it's like a minefield) so w/e, do your kinds of narratives of events to your hearts end boy. i'll stay away and let this suffocate everything.
I'm sorry, but I can't respect it when someone tells me I'm just out to make fun of people, and then tells me this whole discussion is just an "argument game" to me. I'm not doing the debate olympics here. The only reason why I'm putting in the time and effort is because I think this is an important issue. And I think that people who are on the wrong side of it deserve nothing less but to be unequivocally denounced.
And furthermore, I don't believe in trying to meet impossible standards of amenity. Sooner or later, in a discussion like this, someone's going to be offended. I accept that, both as the offended and as the offender. Sometimes people deserve nothing less but to be called out and confronted with the viewpoints they have uttered and their consequences. It's always good to try and avoid it, but not at the cost of telling the truth, because that's a futile cause.
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Outside of this discussion: How goes setting us up with Invision? (yes I'm prodding but I'm just curious not impatient)
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Outside of this discussion: How goes setting us up with Invision? (yes I'm prodding but I'm just curious not impatient)
It's been delayed for a bit for various reasons. I was sick for a while so a couple of work related things sort of piled up. I don't really have a deadline yet but my expectation is SOONISH.
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*Ia thankful for the change of subject* Good to know.
*Has just finished watching several episodes of The World at War * I'm going to ask Celes something.
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Last week I had vacation on my hometown which is a simple municipality in the provinces and also a summer capital so yea it's fun to take a few weeks of without internet though technically there is internet in that area I just wanted a change of environment, funny what those simple experiences bring to you. So Internet though full of resources doesn't have everything.
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nope not doing it, nvm.
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back off or fuck off, your pick.
whoa whoa whoa :(
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cispa is a pretty bad thing that would destroy or change huge swaths of the internet:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120410/12180518442/cispa-is-really-bad-bill-heres-why.shtml
unfortunately there's no campaign about it like there was for sopa and pipa because google and amazon and apple and facebook all have a vested interest in it passing and aren't there to astroturf public support like they did last time
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http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-23/?action=preview&uid=12109
found this when rating ludum dare games. a game made for the bbc radiophonic generation... truly wonderful...
yeah i really liked this game.
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*'m gong back to watching the final Drag race of the season, but realized that many gay men use the b-word amongst themselves for themselves which leaves me a bit conflicted after all the stuff we'd been discussing. I doubt I'd ever say it to a woman friend but... ? Things are not so cut and dried after all. However, I don't want to stir up the specters again.
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*'m gong back to watching the final Drag race of the season, but realized that many gay men use the b-word amongst themselves for themselves which leaves me a bit conflicted after all the stuff we'd been discussing. I doubt I'd ever say it to a woman friend but... ? Things are not so cut and dried after all. However, I don't want to stir up the specters again.
I don't really want to have an entire discussion about this all over again, but I did a little searching around about this matter and found this interesting thing:
http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf (http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf)
It says the following about gay men in particular:
We have also heard gay men use “What’s up, bitch/es?” in a friendly way. Given the cultural association of gay men with femininity, this usage reinforces the idea that gay men are “like women,” and that women have something essential that makes them “bitches.” We’ve also heard gay men use “bitch” as an insult to other men.
That's all it says regarding gay men (as far as I've seen) and I haven't read the entire thing, but I read the first several pages and it seems like it's a good breakdown of how this word in particular has been used and why it is harmful.
That paper in particular is against the idea that the word can really be reclaimed in any positive way by women (which I'd agree with personally but I'm a little on the fence since I think there's a lot of good arguments on the other side as well). I'm pretty skeptical about the idea of gay men taking it though, since I sort of see it as not their word to deal with. I feel like it's too much like if straight women wanted to start endearingly calling each other faggots.
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I feel the word is occasionally applicable to certain people with certain patterns of behavior . . . rarely.
Ru 's apparently going to announce the results at the reunion next week. And as for the video below, I think I'll watch it later- I'm going to put my feedback up on Facebook first. I wonder if she's sincere about taking audience feedback into account. She'd better be!
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relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOOVcE5zdI
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oh. What the fuck.
o.O
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http://chronnerbrothers.com/
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come back when you're pregnant
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That's hilarious. Other good news- the president endorsed safe-schools and anti-bullying acts a day or two ago (http://www.metroweekly.com/poliglot/2012/04/white-house-endorses-safe-schools-bill-and-student.html), and the EEOC just ruled that gender-identity discrimination is covered by Title VII. (http://www.metroweekly.com/news/?ak=7288)
Mind you, the fight is far from over...
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That's awesome, but I wonder how it affects the "Don't Say Gay" bills that are being advanced in Missouri and Tennessee. I mean, I don't see any possible way the two can coexist. There's no way you can say WE'RE PROTECTING LGBT STUDENTS FROM DISCRIMINATION...BUT LEGALLY YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEY EVEN EXIST IN SCHOOL. Hopefully those acts will override the Don't Say Gay ones.
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That's awesome, but I wonder how it affects the "Don't Say Gay" bills that are being advanced in Missouri and Tennessee. I mean, I don't see any possible way the two can coexist. There's no way you can say WE'RE PROTECTING LGBT STUDENTS FROM DISCRIMINATION...BUT LEGALLY YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEY EVEN EXIST IN SCHOOL. Hopefully those acts will override the Don't Say Gay ones.
That type of law is very likely to be unconstitutional (1st amendment, possibly the 14th amendment). When they get passed, my hope is that some civil rights organization will sue, leading to the judge putting the law on hold as it's examined by the court process. If it's not put on hold for the duration of the court process, it could take years for the issue to be resolved.
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http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/apr/24/dont-say-gay-bill-hurts-students/
christ it's not surprising at this point at all but the comments...always the comments...
What needs to happen is we need to keep the glbt away from the students.
They act like the "student" needs help.
Keep these people away from kids.
GODDAMN THOSE GAYS ASKING OUR GOOD GOD-FEARING CHILDREN TO NOT BULLY THEM. THOSE MONSTERS.
"It simply states homosexuality will not be introduced to children until they are age appropriate"... hopefully when its introduced, it is introduced as being wrong and against the will of God.
The sad fact is it is 2 children committed suicide because they were sexually confused. A problem exacerbated by those who want to indoctrinate confused vulnerable little children into an unnatural lifestyle.
welp i'm gonna go puke an infinite stream of puke now because fuck this world. shit like this is why i'm not interested in finding work in nashville despite it being so close by, because as bad as kentucky is about this stuff it's not as bad as tennessee.
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a lot of people are defending it by saying IT ONLY APPLIES TO ELEMENTARY/MIDDLE SCHOOLS, THEY'RE JUST WAITING FOR IT TO BE AGE APPROPRIATE but lol i don't see the same being done with straight relationships and also I'M SURE KIDS WHO GROW UP THINKING HOMOSEXUALITY CANNOT BE SPOKEN OF ARE NOT GONNA HAVE WARPED VIEWS OF IT IN HIGH SCHOOL AND SURELY WON'T BULLY KIDS PERCEIVED TO BE GAY
e: i've edited this post like a million times but i wanna add that the tennessee bill applies to elementary/middle schools but the missouri one applies to all public schools as far as i've read
e: this documentary is from the 90s but seriously check it out dudes because it shows THE HORRORS of *gasp* telling kids that being gay is a thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzrznSpf8V4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzrznSpf8V4)
The most telling thing is the kid who thinks interracial couples are considered gay as well, because as far as society is concerned all taboo relationships are just "Other"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH5gfqC8V6g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH5gfqC8V6g)
this is the cutest thing, i love when kids are so matter of fact. "IT'S LIKE *DUH* YOU'RE GAY". kids give no fucks, they ain't got any hate in them until it's put there.
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That was indeed adorable.
Kids are 1000 times smarter and capable that what most adults give them credit for.
Though, me, as a kid? I was one of the EXCEPTIONS. I was a moron. But I think that have stemmed from just being awkward and not good at reading people or 'reading between the lines'. As a kid I basically blindly followed adults because I lacked the confidence to make up my own mind. I suppose that's what my instinctual dislike and strong distrust of authority comes from now.
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I always find the concept of kids-adult conflict interesting, primarily because adults were they themselves once kids yet there exists misunderstanding and a gap in judging the other side. Remindsme of Battle Royale though i'm not sure if that was the point of the movie.
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I'll make sure to look tomorrow Vell. I had a good time tonight and hung out with one of my roommates' pals who happens to be a manager at two clubs, one apopluar gay club in Dc. Anyway he's a fun guy- we hung out and drunk ale and watched Robot Chicken- but I name no names.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/eZh3O.gif)
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Wow that's pretty amazing. How does it look SO 3D?!?!
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Wow that's pretty amazing. How does it look SO 3D?!?!
it's like a a stereograph, but instead of two images next to each other you have an animation where the two images alternate quickly. I was never able to do that thing where you have to cross your eyes to see the 3D effect, so these are pretty cool. If you google something like "wiggle stereograph" you can find tons of this stuff
For example http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/the-civil-war-part-3-the-stereographs/100243/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/the-civil-war-part-3-the-stereographs/100243/)
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Wow that's pretty cool actually.
THANK YOU FOR THE EDUCATION!!!
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/eZh3O.gif)
thats incredible.
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Today Dave Brubeck's son Chris and his band came to my hometown for a gig and my college's Jazz Band had a clinic with them. He was rather complimentary towards my playing and I'm still kind of freaking out about it.
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Does anyone else think we need the topic of the week back?
Stuff like:
-Health Care
-Drug Legalization
-Abortion
-Gender Issues (ok we did this one to death, but there is seemingly always more)
-Civil Rights
-Censorship
-Copyright, Trademark, and Patent Laws (Namely on how long they last and how easy it is to acquire them)
-Religion
-Religion and government
-Prison System
-capital punishment
-War and Military issues (Spending, veterans, general ethics, DARPA, etc.)
-Science!
-Animal Rights
-Environmental Protection
-personal protection (Firearms, blades, body armor)
-Immigration
-Economics
-Child Support
-Nuclear Energy
-Political Corruption
-Forms of Government (Democracy, Republic, Monarchy, Totalitarianism)
-Law Enforcement
Could all be topics. Though admittedly these aren't all perfect for an actual long conversation on them and lacking the numbers in member might cut down on responses, but it might help draw attention and new posters (as well as keeping them).
EDIT: or even the "Ask a <insert type here>" topics... Though I can't help but worry that those might bring about assholes.
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This topic is now about CHILD SUPPORT!
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Man I did topic of the week for a while a few months ago, but when NUMBER 6 turned into a kind of flame war between Alec, some other guy (bunnymilk or some shit?) and myself I kind of SOURED against the idea.
It basically turned into some really derogatory and unnecessary things being said about belief systems of others and made me cry ;_;.
I think the final post on the topic was a crude bible passage about a man's genitalia being oxen-like, as if that somehow meant "NO RELIGION AHS VALUE LOLS".
I'd be happy to start it up again now we have a more active leadership re: people being offensive dicks (ho ho ho).
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Come back to SW, fuckcrypt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VyVAQX8PU
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I originally never participated all too much admittedly. Oddly enough I have interest in such an idea now. Maybe you don't know what you have until its gone.
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fuckcrypt made an awesome new video but it got removed for "disgusting content".
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I think child support good.
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I originally never participated all too much admittedly. Oddly enough I have interest in such an idea now. Maybe you don't know what you have until its gone.
Actually as you've already had like some IDEAS (and as my follow through is sometimes SHADY oh no) maybe you should do this?
JUST AN IDEA!!!
Only thing to be careful of is that a lot of the topics thought of have like kind of UNANIMOUS SUPPORT/AGAINST one way or the other around places like this (like I don't imagine there'll be many NEVER IMMIGRANTS NO BAD NO posts on an immigration thread), but maybe that's an assumption on my part? Fuck it, go for it!
GENERATE SOME FINE DISCUSSION
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Yes but if you're gonna make a topic like this, please don't just say "HELLO THIS IS ABOUT <topic>, DISCUSS".
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computer, i would like to make a topic about destroying capitalism
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computer, create topic. topic body text: d e l e t e t h e p a t r i a r c h y
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computer, create for me a fiery avatar of wrath which will destroy the sick and decaying systems of our modern age, throw down the powerful, and stamp their bones into the mud which will give seed to the growth of the meek and the minor
thanks
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computer, reply with well-researched opinion.
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computer what is the argument against free will again i need it for a argument
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the computer slowly renders an ascii graphic of a dog licking its own nuts. you are perplexed by this.
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topic of the week kinda got stale as it ended up with the same few of us backwards and forwardsing often with [insert ][/insert] making baseless right-wing assertions while everybody else posts like essays with sourced evidence, and then [insert ][/insert] posts links to some absurd christian website by some guy whose been discredited fifty thousand times. And judging by how this harmless 'whats on you mind' topic has developed, it'd just be the same.
Also http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/ (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/) is a really good blog. I Check it every day as it attacks one of my main pet peeves with the comic industry.
(when I draw women with the proportions of those in there, I screw the paper up and throw it away because it's by error.)
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Well Kaworu, the way it used to be was that not all topics were about RIGHT WING CONTROVERSY or whatever. I think it'd be better to stick to issues where we COULD have some debate, rather than things with clearly accepted positions 'round these 'ere parts (Like SHOULD WE KILL HOMOSEXUALS / DO WOMEN DESERVE RIGHTS = no, no, no, whereas RESPONSIBILITIES TO FAMILIES / DUTY TO PARENTS etc are more reasonable discussions and shit. More open ended shit).
Anything that generates some discussion and interaction 'round 'ere can only be a good thing.
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Also http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/ (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/) is a really good blog. I Check it every day as it attacks one of my main pet peeves with the comic industry.
(when I draw women with the proportions of those in there, I screw the paper up and throw it away because it's by error.)
Yeah, I love this blog a lot too. It's a phenomenon I was pretty aware of already but it's pretty great to see this many examples of it in one place.
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http://tindeck.com/listen/kpun
http://tindeck.com/listen/qjuk
second one is almost music
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Jumped through a few links. found this.
http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3 (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3) (EDIT: I meant: http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/ (http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/)) Agreed with it mostly, BUT:
How does one emphasize sexuality over everything else of a posed male in any image without the male appearing to have feminine traits? (Honest question)
Is this possible? It does not seem so.
Also, to a lesser degree, power and strength are traits commonly associated with attractive males. As in, to make a male sexy to most people that find men attractive, don't you need them to have the strong dominating look? Rather than the look of a waif? This is merely the most POPULAR sexy look. The look that (as far as I know) is what women find attractive in the most common sense. (obviously not in every sense). The big ripped chest, muscular arms and legs, chiseled jaw, etc.
Please note, I do not find giant breasts and impossible waists attractive in women, but I think that is because I'm not in the majority. I'm pretty sure the majority of men want just that. Just like its arguable that majority of women want the giant man.
You could argue that you should perhaps see the outline of their dicks and balls in their pants? But I don't think that would be sexually attractive to the common woman. perhaps I am wrong though.
But these are estimations based on what I've seen of our culture. So I understand that may not be technically accurate.
I do cringe at the BOOBS/ASS shot.
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i know that i live in the future because when i place an order for DOMINOS PIZZA there is a web application which gives me up to the minute status of my pie. god bless you vint cerf. god bless you tim berners-lee.
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lol pizza tracking.
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just reached stage 5, ladies and gents: out for delivery. mere minutes from piping hot mediocrity, baked lovingly by 'cristian'. they've upgraded functionality to send a note of encouragement to your pizza chef, and i sent 'thank you for all the hard work'. i mean it. thank you cristian.
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Jumped through a few links. found this. http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3 (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3) Agreed with it mostly, BUT:
Don't link to a page number please, link to the specific item.
How does one emphasize sexuality over everything else of a posed male in any image without the male appearing to have feminine traits? (Honest question)
Is this possible? It does not seem so.
Maybe I'm not entirely the right person to answer this, but it seems to me that it's not so much feminine traits as much as it is simply the absence of the almost stereotypical masculine features that turn a character into a privileged male power fantasy.
Also, to a lesser degree, power and strength are traits commonly associated with attractive males. As in, to make a male sexy to most people that find men attractive, don't you need them to have the strong dominating look? Rather than the look of a waif?
I think that's a good question to ask because that's what we commonly assume. I don't really think it's the case for most people who are sexually attracted to men, based on what I've seen, but I don't know.
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OH sorry I grabbed the wrong address. http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/ (http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/)
just reached stage 5, ladies and gents: out for delivery. mere minutes from piping hot mediocrity, baked lovingly by 'cristian'. they've upgraded functionality to send a note of encouragement to your pizza chef, and i sent 'thank you for all the hard work'. i mean it. thank you cristian.
mediocrity? Yeah I guess. I like Pizza Hut more myself. (though they are arguably in the same tier of pizza)
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Relevant: http://image.bayimg.com/ealmbaadf.jpg
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Dead link. :/ (403 forbidden)
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I assume you were refering to http://thegamesofchance.blogspot.com/2011/12/feature-sexism-in-character-design.html
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Jumped through a few links. found this. http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3 (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/page/3) (EDIT: I meant: http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/ (http://www.jimchines.com/2012/04/posing-like-a-man/)) Agreed with it mostly, BUT:
How does one emphasize sexuality over everything else of a posed male in any image without the male appearing to have feminine traits? (Honest question)
Is this possible? It does not seem so.
I guess my question is why would you want to? There's no reason to try to sexualize men to the degree women are sexualized. The idea is to NOT objectify women, not start objectifying men. The exercise is pretty futile anyway because it's completely divorced from the larger cultural environment. The problem isn't JUST that women are sexualized, it's that their sexualized in a patriarchal society that oppresses them. Simply sexualizing men does not put them in the same spot. I mean I get that you were just asking how they could be sexualized, but I would just ask why it matters. It wouldn't have the same meaning anyway.
Also, to a lesser degree, power and strength are traits commonly associated with attractive males. As in, to make a male sexy to most people that find men attractive, don't you need them to have the strong dominating look? Rather than the look of a waif? This is merely the most POPULAR sexy look. The look that (as far as I know) is what women find attractive in the most common sense. (obviously not in every sense). The big ripped chest, muscular arms and legs, chiseled jaw, etc.
Please note, I do not find giant breasts and impossible waists attractive in women, but I think that is because I'm not in the majority. I'm pretty sure the majority of men want just that. Just like its arguable that majority of women want the giant man.
It's pretty counter productive to talk about what women find attractive. Everyone finds different things attractive. The problem is that the "standard" of beauty is based on patriarchal attitudes. Men are supposed to be physically strong and violent and therefore muscular, so the muscular man is the "ideal". Women are supposed to be thin and frail with huge tits and submissive to the man, so that's the "ideal" woman. This really doesn't have anything to do with what people are actually attracted to. They're just representations of what the ideal people would look like in a patriarchal society. I'm not saying people AREN'T attracted to these things, I just think trying to categorize what's attractive to the majority is fairly futile.
You could argue that you should perhaps see the outline of their dicks and balls in their pants? But I don't think that would be sexually attractive to the common woman. perhaps I am wrong though.
But these are estimations based on what I've seen of our culture. So I understand that may not be technically accurate.
I do cringe at the BOOBS/ASS shot.
It's hard to say what a sexualized man should look like because a) it's not all that useful to think about and b) what is attractive is 100% dependent on who you ask. In patriarchal societies men aren't SUPPOSED to be sexualized. If you're really interested in sexualized and objectified men, I suppose you could look to gay porn. However, I think it's interesting to note that you're going to find a huge variety of body types and appearances (twinks vs bears for extreme examples), which isn't nearly as common in straight porn. It also is coming from a man's perspective as opposed to a woman's, which may make a difference. But again, there's no reason to consider the objectified man because it'll never have the same meaning in the wider context as an objectified woman. Men aren't objectified in nearly every facet of society, so objectifying them once isn't going to matter much.
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I assume you were refering to http://thegamesofchance.blogspot.com/2011/12/feature-sexism-in-character-design.html
It's the Shortpacked comic on that page.
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I guess my question is why would you want to? There's no reason to try to sexualize men to the degree women are sexualized. The idea is to NOT objectify women, not start objectifying men. The exercise is pretty futile anyway because it's completely divorced from the larger cultural environment. The problem isn't JUST that women are sexualized, it's that their sexualized in a patriarchal society that oppresses them. Simply sexualizing men does not put them in the same spot. I mean I get that you were just asking how they could be sexualized, but I would just ask why it matters. It wouldn't have the same meaning anyway.
Well, because I see the argument that men are sexualized in japan as "Bishies". But that is generally looked down on in the US. I was trying to figure out if a strong man can be viewed as sexualized. Also, many would disagree that there is no reason for sexualization of men. I'm sure that would appeal to some women. Further, if the amount of CLEAR sexualization was applied to both genders equally, its hard to imagine this facet of the gender issue even coming up. But it is brought up. Commonly.
The problem isn't JUST that women are sexualized, it's that their sexualized in a patriarchal society that oppresses them. Simply sexualizing men does not put them in the same spot. I mean I get that you were just asking how they could be sexualized, but I would just ask why it matters. It wouldn't have the same meaning anyway.
But, looking at it that way, is the sexualization the problem? Or even part of it? Is it not possible to sexualize women (or men) in any context and not be living in a patriarchy? Is the dominion of SEX in media just a man thing? Does sex not appeal to the interests of women when it is portrayed in media?
It's pretty counter productive to talk about what women find attractive. Everyone finds different things attractive. The problem is that the "standard" of beauty is based on patriarchal attitudes. Men are supposed to be physically strong and violent and therefore muscular, so the muscular man is the "ideal". Women are supposed to be thin and frail with huge tits and submissive to the man, so that's the "ideal" woman. This really doesn't have anything to do with what people are actually attracted to. They're just representations of what the ideal people would look like in a patriarchal society. I'm not saying people AREN'T attracted to these things, I just think trying to categorize what's attractive to the majority is fairly futile.
But most would argue that the standard comes from human nature/evolution/etc, which means there is a majority (or at least it could be argued that its probable). Sure, its probably been warped to some degree during the ages, but if you look at almost every culture this was the case. Men being tough, women being delicate. Is the patriarchy built into our minds at birth and then merely reinforced by culture? Is this an aspect of human nature that should cease? (honest question, "natural =/= good" is largely how I feel anyway, My computer isn't natural, but it definitely a good thing, death is natural, I don't think its a good thing in the slightest.)
It's hard to say what a sexualized man should look like because a) it's not all that useful to think about and b) what is attractive is 100% dependent on who you ask. In patriarchal societies men aren't SUPPOSED to be sexualized. If you're really interested in sexualized and objectified men, I suppose you could look to gay porn. However, I think it's interesting to note that you're going to find a huge variety of body types and appearances (twinks vs bears for extreme examples), which isn't nearly as common in straight porn. It also is coming from a man's perspective as opposed to a woman's, which may make a difference. But again, there's no reason to consider the objectified man because it'll never have the same meaning in the wider context as an objectified woman. Men aren't objectified in nearly every facet of society, so objectifying them once isn't going to matter much.
Does this not support the reasoning behind exploring the sexualization of men? That by sexualizing men, you are breaking away from patriarchy in a form?
OK, outside of this, I understand the message here though, you think that sexualization should stop entirely? Maybe? because sexualization means something different to women than it does to men. That neither men, nor women, should be sexualized in media. Outside of porn? Or are you against pornographic material? Also serious question.
This brings up another question, what would straight porn look like if made entirely for straight women? Could such a thing even exist? Does it?
Or what would a woman fantasize about BEING? A man wants to be physically strong and dominating (or in some cases witty and intellectually dominating) What would be a woman's fantasy character be like? Are all these avenues of exploration of gender issues not worth looking at?
It's the Shortpacked comic on that page.
OK, Yeah I thought that might have been it. Wasn't completely sure though.
Though I understand the comics point, Batman was a poor example. Or any "known" character for that matter. I remember there being an old black lady character (I don't remember the name) but they apparently changed her in the "New 52" and made her a hot 25 year old. If I was a follower of such a character I would be baffled and maybe enraged. Just as I would if they made a powerful looking character sexy, like in the case of that batman. I don't know if the example I cite caused too much rage among the comic book reading people though.
I don't read comics really so much so I couldn't argue about the sexualization in them to well for either side. Based on the covers and image grabs though yeah it seems clear that they are sexist.
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In my mind, the issue is not simply the sexualization of women in media. Rather, it is the degree and type of sexualization that media applies to the female subject.
Sexual objectification of men and women is not per se a bad thing - after all, to a great degree sexuality is all about objectifying and judging a partner based on superficial sexual traits.
The problem is that in our culture, sexual objectification of women is overwhelmingly the default or "normal" portrayal. Almost anything that isn't is a deliberate deviation.
Look around in popular movies, TV shows, commercials, etc. If there is a woman present, they are typically a sexual prop, to be viewed as an object for the protagonist's or audience's consumption. This is inarguably a negative and disrespectful portrayal, and you almost never see it applied to men in media, who are usually the central figure and more fully developed. An extension to this phenomenon is that media is typically constructed from a male viewpoint and caters to male desires and interests - see the "male gaze" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze).
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I think it's also because most people working on this are headed and crowded by male people.
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I think Belross's post gives you a good idea of what's going on with what you're discussing but I'm going to go through your post anyway.
Well, because I see the argument that men are sexualized in japan as "Bishies". But that is generally looked down on in the US. I was trying to figure out if a strong man can be viewed as sexualized. Also, many would disagree that there is no reason for sexualization of men. I'm sure that would appeal to some women. Further, if the amount of CLEAR sexualization was applied to both genders equally, its hard to imagine this facet of the gender issue even coming up. But it is brought up. Commonly.
But, looking at it that way, is the sexualization the problem? Or even part of it? Is it not possible to sexualize women (or men) in any context and not be living in a patriarchy? Is the dominion of SEX in media just a man thing? Does sex not appeal to the interests of women when it is portrayed in media?
Basically, this is what Belross's post answers. It's not that there's never a reason for a character to be sexual. It's the fact that they are being used as sex objects and nothing else. There is no good reason for this. People don't need to be objectified, but in our society "people" nearly always means "women" when it comes to sexual objectification. This is a problem. Applying the same sexualization to both genders wouldn't change the rest of the patriarchy though, and that's why doing this is entirely useless. I never said there was never a reason to make a man sexy, this is fine. What we're talking about is objectification. Objectifying men (which is pretty damn rare in our society) isn't any better than objectifying women. Sure, some women would like it. A lot of men like women being sexualized in every part of media too. That's part of what keeps it going. That doesn't make it okay. People shouldn't be reduced to objects period. It's just that this happens OVERWHELMINGLY to women and so focusing on the fact that it can happen to men too is missing the big picture.
But most would argue that the standard comes from human nature/evolution/etc, which means there is a majority (or at least it could be argued that its probable). Sure, its probably been warped to some degree during the ages, but if you look at almost every culture this was the case. Men being tough, women being delicate. Is the patriarchy built into our minds at birth and then merely reinforced by culture? Is this an aspect of human nature that should cease? (honest question, "natural =/= good" is largely how I feel anyway, My computer isn't natural, but it definitely a good thing, death is natural, I don't think its a good thing in the slightest.)
Patriarchy isn't natural. Your heart is in the right place with this but you've got to understand that a lot of the "science" around these sorts of things are totally bullshit. For example, some people argue that men fall into the "tough" role because they are naturally stronger. However, the ONLY place you really see a big difference in men and women re: the ability to build muscle is at the very very extremes (think world-class athletes). For most people, men and women are equally capable of growing muscle and being strong. However, you don't see a lot of totally ripped women walking around. Why? Societal pressures teaching women that they need to be fit but not muscular. This is 100% a product of culture, not biology. You say "most" would argue that it's human nature, but the majority of sociologists agree that it's nurture instead of nature. Nothing about the patriarchy is built into our brains, it just starts being put there as soon as we're old enough to notice the world around us. It feels "natural" because we've been surrounded by it our entire lives. That doesn't make it biological.
Does this not support the reasoning behind exploring the sexualization of men? That by sexualizing men, you are breaking away from patriarchy in a form?
I could break away from the patriarchy by killing all men too, that doesn't automatically make it right.
OK, outside of this, I understand the message here though, you think that sexualization should stop entirely? Maybe? because sexualization means something different to women than it does to men. That neither men, nor women, should be sexualized in media. Outside of porn? Or are you against pornographic material? Also serious question.
This brings up another question, what would straight porn look like if made entirely for straight women? Could such a thing even exist? Does it?
I don't think there's anything wrong with sexuality. The problem is sexualization in the sense of objectification. That is absolutely wrong. Reducing people to objects is dehumanizing. The difference between sexuality and objectification is very important. Porn in particular is a problematic area and you'll get a lot of different answers on it. I am absolutely against mainstream porn as it is today, but I'm not against porn itself. The problem is the "standard" current mainstream porn is INSANELY misogynistic and absolutely disgusting. Women are entirely objectified, as in they are literally just objects to be used to get the man off. They end with his ejaculation, so clearly the end goal of sex is supposed to be that the man cums. The woman is almost always passive. Again, I'm talking about mainstream porn in general, there will always be a few exceptions and there will always be niche porn outside of that. There is porn for straight women, but very few and most of it has to be purchased instead of found on random websites. There was a website I came across a while back that was for a female-focused porn festival, but I can't remember the name right now. If I can find it I'll edit the link in. There's also porn for lesbians (not to be confused with "lesbian porn" intended for straight men, which is sometimes more misogynist than the straight porn). However, since we live in a society that doesn't believe women should be sexual, we're just now seeing people in the porn industry who are really willing to market towards women.
Or what would a woman fantasize about BEING? A man wants to be physically strong and dominating (or in some cases witty and intellectually dominating) What would be a woman's fantasy character be like? Are all these avenues of exploration of gender issues not worth looking at?
You don't think women fantasize about being strong? Or witty? This is a problem. You're gendering desires. Women aren't monolithic. Women have all different desires and wants. I can't tell you what women want to be. I can't tell you what men want to be. Some women want to have successful careers. Some want to be stay at home parents. Some want to be body builders. Some want to be in the army. Some want to be fashion models. The exact same is true of men. The sooner you stop thinking about women and men being these concrete groups that all want similar things the better.
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Also, a problem with dealing with "but what do women really want???" is that the whole concept has already been poisoned by the patriarchy. Gender roles and desires have been reinforced over and over again by society and media to the extent that women (and men!) have basically been conditioned towards wanting certain things and acting certain ways. So it's kind of unfair to suddenly say "okay girls what do you REALLY want to be when you grow up, no really ignore your 100% patriarchal upbringing and tell me."
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Yeah, you can't fight back by doing the same thing to men that men do to women. That doesn't mean you can't have things that are sexualized, or sex-based entertainment: the point always and unerringly the fact that a systemic gender-based oppression exists. Commit this fact to memory, because it's the background radiation of every single discussion of feminism. It's also to be kept in mind that if you try to make a "correction" by objectifying men, for whatever reason you'd want that, you're opening yourself up to legitimate claims of hypocrisy. Moral principles can only be applied across the board, otherwise it's unequivocally hypocritical.
Affirmative action is not a good comparison, because the principle is anti-racist through a forceful correction of the white male bias. No cause is aided by equally objectifying men and women.
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Basically, this is what Belross's post answers. It's not that there's never a reason for a character to be sexual. It's the fact that they are being used as sex objects and nothing else. There is no good reason for this. People don't need to be objectified, but in our society "people" nearly always means "women" when it comes to sexual objectification. This is a problem. Applying the same sexualization to both genders wouldn't change the rest of the patriarchy though, and that's why doing this is entirely useless. I never said there was never a reason to make a man sexy, this is fine. What we're talking about is objectification. Objectifying men (which is pretty damn rare in our society) isn't any better than objectifying women. Sure, some women would like it. A lot of men like women being sexualized in every part of media too. That's part of what keeps it going. That doesn't make it okay. People shouldn't be reduced to objects period. It's just that this happens OVERWHELMINGLY to women and so focusing on the fact that it can happen to men too is missing the big picture.
Yeah, OK. True. I never really doubted this. And yeah I never actually thought that it would be GOOD if we all just objectified either gender equally where we merely increased objectification of men to the same level. Just that it would technically even out that particular aspect of it.
This only brings up the issue of extremely short lived media, like commercials, where every character is there just to sell whatever. Meaning they will all have the same level of depth as a person as a cardboard cutout. And since the idea of "Sex Sells" (which from what I've read isn't actually true) is everywhere and yeah, culturally people perceive women as more 'sexy' Objectification in this area will probably never go away, so the only way to make it as least a gender-equal shitty thing, one could argue for the objectification of men to become a norm, at least in that context. Just an example of what I imagine would be hard to avoid objectification entirely.
My example kind of seems out of left field I'll admit.
Patriarchy isn't natural. Your heart is in the right place with this but you've got to understand that a lot of the "science" around these sorts of things are totally bullshit. For example, some people argue that men fall into the "tough" role because they are naturally stronger. However, the ONLY place you really see a big difference in men and women re: the ability to build muscle is at the very very extremes (think world-class athletes). For most people, men and women are equally capable of growing muscle and being strong. However, you don't see a lot of totally ripped women walking around. Why? Societal pressures teaching women that they need to be fit but not muscular. This is 100% a product of culture, not biology. You say "most" would argue that it's human nature, but the majority of sociologists agree that it's nurture instead of nature. Nothing about the patriarchy is built into our brains, it just starts being put there as soon as we're old enough to notice the world around us. It feels "natural" because we've been surrounded by it our entire lives. That doesn't make it biological.
It could also be argued that a very muscular women isn't considered generally considered attractive. Which probably has an effect.
As for the science being bullshit, I've read articles pushing either side of this argument. Some saying gender roles are part of our biology, some saying its just in our heads, some saying its a mixture of both. It's hard to identify what is true. It starts to all just sound like hearsay. I have no real concrete belief on the subject because of that.
I could break away from the patriarchy by killing all men too, that doesn't automatically make it right.
Good point.
I don't think there's anything wrong with sexuality. The problem is sexualization in the sense of objectification. That is absolutely wrong. Reducing people to objects is dehumanizing. The difference between sexuality and objectification is very important. Porn in particular is a problematic area and you'll get a lot of different answers on it. I am absolutely against mainstream porn as it is today, but I'm not against porn itself. The problem is the "standard" current mainstream porn is INSANELY misogynistic and absolutely disgusting. Women are entirely objectified, as in they are literally just objects to be used to get the man off. They end with his ejaculation, so clearly the end goal of sex is supposed to be that the man cums. The woman is almost always passive. Again, I'm talking about mainstream porn in general, there will always be a few exceptions and there will always be niche porn outside of that. There is porn for straight women, but very few and most of it has to be purchased instead of found on random websites. There was a website I came across a while back that was for a female-focused porn festival, but I can't remember the name right now. If I can find it I'll edit the link in. There's also porn for lesbians (not to be confused with "lesbian porn" intended for straight men, which is sometimes more misogynist than the straight porn). However, since we live in a society that doesn't believe women should be sexual, we're just now seeing people in the porn industry who are really willing to market towards women.
sexualization to objectification. I assume that line is crossed when all a character is nothing but a collection of sexual tropes (or is looked at as such).
IDK about that view of porn. Is porn that is made only for men inherently misogynistic? Where the focus is on the man's enjoyment? Sure, it isn't right that there is a lack of porn focused on the woman's enjoyment, but that doesn't mean focus on a man's enjoyment in porn is hateful of women. Comes off as arguably utilitarian, since most porn viewers are men... Though I suppose that it's possible that might be just a cycle of reinforcement, perhaps there is very few women that watch porn because of the stigma and the lack of porn made for them, since there are fewer women, the porn makers continue their man oriented porn.
I don't think I watch main stream porn normally. But then I don't know what you can call mainstream porn since its all been moved to the internet and there is this thing about NOT paying for porn anymore. Like, who buys porn DVDS anymore? or even goes to pay sites? I've never payed for porn.
Anyway, Its bad that there is little porn that targets women as an audience. Its not bad that there is porn that target's men.
And as unfortunate as it sounds, you describe mainstream porn as disgusting. Some men can't help but get off to the disgusting stuff. :/
You don't think women fantasize about being strong? Or witty? This is a problem. You're gendering desires. Women aren't monolithic. Women have all different desires and wants. I can't tell you what women want to be. I can't tell you what men want to be. Some women want to have successful careers. Some want to be stay at home parents. Some want to be body builders. Some want to be in the army. Some want to be fashion models. The exact same is true of men. The sooner you stop thinking about women and men being these concrete groups that all want similar things the better.
Thing is though that women aren't really considered monolithic when it comes to their desires. Its more common to put men in to that idea. That all men want is sex and to be powerful/dominant. Which isn't true obviously. That in fact is where the typical "What do women want?" question comes from. Stereotypically, its men wanting women to be as stereotypically sex obsessed as men so its easier to get in bed with them. Its funny because it may very well be that women are just as interested but that culture has also made it clear that if you are a promiscuous women you are a slut or whore. Men have poisoned their own ability to get laid.
The idea behind the typical asking of "What do women want?" (in common media) is that if you know what a woman wants, its the key to whats in their pants. Its generally thought that almost every reasonably attractive woman already has the key into a man's pants. Existing. They just use that key very selectively. Men/women calling women sluts and whores is just reinforcing the selectivity.
I've never called anyone a slut or whore and never will. Calling a woman a whore or slut is more damaging than calling them a bitch because it's telling women that being promiscuous is shameful. While calling them a bitch is telling them they shouldn't be aggressive. And I don't generally like aggressive people anyway because I'm kind of a wuss. (outside of movies and video game I guess, in which case, I'm 100% ok with women being aggressive, good example: Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica was one of my favorite characters). I've never called a woman a bitch either though.
My older brother has (not to their face of course). Only in reference to women in porn or women that he had sex with little work put in. I'm unsure if he looked down on them for that.
Actually, would objectifying a male be more common as (or more likely, just stereotypical) to view them as human ATM machines? Rather than sexual objects. The "Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money" concept. It's certainly a shallow thing to base a relationship on, just as shallow as just wanting a fuck object.
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latest episode of mad men was excellent, mad men having a season so good i'm freaking out
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latest episode of mad men was excellent, mad men having a season so good i'm freaking out
Don continues his devolution from man-child into full blown man-baby. Soon he will be but a man-fetus, and then perhaps a man-zygote, nestled within the womb of SCDP, at which point he will be brain dead and drool all over his wife and then shit his pants.
Fake edit: I haven't actually seen the latest episode, only up to last week.
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Close up shot of woman (made to look as young as possible) gagging while being skullfucked. Dick is removed and then jizzes over woman's face, camera fades out while woman is swallowing.
cumdumpstersluts5 Anal eWRECKtion
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This only brings up the issue of extremely short lived media, like commercials, where every character is there just to sell whatever. Meaning they will all have the same level of depth as a person as a cardboard cutout. And since the idea of "Sex Sells" (which from what I've read isn't actually true) is everywhere and yeah, culturally people perceive women as more 'sexy' Objectification in this area will probably never go away, so the only way to make it as least a gender-equal shitty thing, one could argue for the objectification of men to become a norm, at least in that context. Just an example of what I imagine would be hard to avoid objectification entirely.
It's hard for you to imagine ads without objectification (particularly of women) because it's so widespread. However, it's pretty self-defeating to say "well, we can't change it so I guess we should just objectify men too to make it fair". That doesn't fix anything, that would still leave women being objectified. You need to think on a bigger scale. The big thing here is that you can't just fix the symptoms of oppression. You have to start changing the way people think. The more people who embrace feminism and realize that objectifying women isn't cool, the more companies start getting backlash and the less they'll be willing to do it in their ads. There has been a LOT of controversy over ads in recent years. I'm not saying that it's going to be anytime soon, but I think ads are slowly going to be objectifying women less because it's becoming less acceptable. The Boston API Jam that posted a (PURELY TEXT) flyer that objectified women got enough backlash that sponsors pulled out and I believe the event was cancelled altogether. We're not quite there yet, but we are slowly getting to where it's not going to be financially viable to objectify women. Just trying to "settle" for objectifying men too is counterproductive.
It could also be argued that a very muscular women isn't considered generally considered attractive. Which probably has an effect.
This is what I was saying basically. But why aren't they "generally considered attractive"? Because look at the standard of beauty promoted in every single bit of media. Muscular women aren't there. It's incredibly skinny women with every single bulge or crease photoshopped out of them. This reinforces the idea that this is what is supposed to be attractive to men and that this is what a woman should strive towards. And god forbid you're a WoC, because as far as ads are concerned Beyonce isn't black anymore, she's photoshopped to a more acceptable "just slightly tan". We live in a world where the standard of beauty is decided for us before we're born. I remember us having an argument in #saltw about whether or not men generally found supermodels attractive, and the men who said they didn't were told they were just lying to be edgy or rebellious or whatever. In our patriarchy, men who don't immediately want to have sex with Barbie are considered less of a man. It's bad for everyone involved, but it hurts women far worse since they're the ones hurting their bodies to try to achieve a standard of beauty that these days isn't even physically possible due to photoshop.
As for the science being bullshit, I've read articles pushing either side of this argument. Some saying gender roles are part of our biology, some saying its just in our heads, some saying its a mixture of both. It's hard to identify what is true. It starts to all just sound like hearsay. I have no real concrete belief on the subject because of that.
Oh, there are tons of articles enforcing "biotruths". That doesn't mean they're valid. I'd like to see links to the articles you're talking about though. Like I said, the vast majority of sociologists agree that it's a matter of socialization. You have to also consider that all the scientific research is being done in a patriarchal society to begin with (and done mostly by men (again because of the patriarchy (smash the patriarchy delete all sexism))) and it can at times be horribly biased.
IDK about that view of porn. Is porn that is made only for men inherently misogynistic? Where the focus is on the man's enjoyment? Sure, it isn't right that there is a lack of porn focused on the woman's enjoyment, but that doesn't mean focus on a man's enjoyment in porn is hateful of women.
There's nothing wrong with porn focusing on men in theory. The problem is...well, this:
Close up shot of woman (made to look as young as possible) gagging while being skullfucked. Dick is removed and then jizzes over woman's face, camera fades out while woman is swallowing.
cumdumpstersluts5 Anal eWRECKtion
Porn has always been male-gazey as fuck, but it's just gotten more and more disgusting. Go to any porn site and click on the pictures on the front page. Ask yourself--is this objectifying? Is this a harmful view of women? Chances are the answer is going to be "absolutely yes". It's just supporting the harmful views of women that men get everywhere else. I mean, think about the context porn exists in. We live in a society where women are not supposed to be sexual creatures, where they are not supposed to enjoy sex or seek sex out, merely exist for men to Do Sex to. That is what our society believes, whether you personally agree with it or not. So having porn in which women are literally just there to Be Fucked (aka almost all of straight mainstream porn) is just perpetuating those ideas, which is legitimately 100% oppressing women. It's not just a matter of it not being for me, it is actually harmful. The problem is, it's so prevalent that even if you don't want to watch that kind of porn, you'll have to spend a lot of time finding an alternative, especially for free.
Comes off as arguably utilitarian, since most porn viewers are men... Though I suppose that it's possible that might be just a cycle of reinforcement, perhaps there is very few women that watch porn because of the stigma and the lack of porn made for them, since there are fewer women, the porn makers continue their man oriented porn.
Depending on what survey you go by, 30-70% of women watch porn. Pretty big gap in those statistics, but you have to consider the patriarchal factors. Women may not admit to it on surveys, and like you said it's stigmatized. You have to consider what you're saying here though. The fact that it's stigmatized for women to watch porn is again a symptom of oppression, because they are not supposed to be sexual creatures. But what about women who do want to watch porn? They tend to have a harder time finding porn that doesn't horribly objectify them, so it is a roadblock. Like I said, there ARE feminist porn directors, but that tends to be pornography you have to pay for (which is why, as I'll talk more about in a minute, people may pay for porn). So what you're saying here is that it's understandable to continue objectifying women for the sake of men watching porn instead of embracing the women who want to? This is coming off as way too Straight Male Gamer-y (if you'll remember the SMG letter, it was about how games shouldn't add gay romance options because they'll alienate the Straight Male Gamer base, ignoring the fact that it's optional to go down these paths and that there are tons of gay gamers who would like the option). You're saying that because men are the majority in a system women are told to stay out of, they should be catered to. Catered to to the point that what they're being shown is actively harmful to women and oppressing them. I don't think so.
I don't think I watch main stream porn normally. But then I don't know what you can call mainstream porn since its all been moved to the internet and there is this thing about NOT paying for porn anymore. Like, who buys porn DVDS anymore? or even goes to pay sites? I've never payed for porn.
Anyway, Its bad that there is little porn that targets women as an audience. Its not bad that there is porn that target's men.
If you're watching porn on the internet and aren't sure if it's mainstream, it's mainstream. If you aren't digging down deep for obscure niche porn, you're watching mainstream porn. Mainstream doesn't mean commercial DVDs, in fact nowadays internet IS the mainstream if anything. As for paying for porn, like I said before there are a lot of good reasons why someone would want to. When mainstream porn is entirely excluding you, you may have to pay money for niche stuff (as I said in a previous post, for example, there's porn made for lesbians that's different than "lesbian porn" on regular sites, but it's usually paid only. Note here that gay male porn is very easily accessed online, because again, men are supposed to be sexual whereas men are not). Really, when you have niche porn, you typically can't just make up the money in ad revenue like mainstream porn. It's understandable. You say "I've never paid for porn", but stop and think about the fact that you're a man. Mainstream porn is catering to you.
And as unfortunate as it sounds, you describe mainstream porn as disgusting. Some men can't help but get off to the disgusting stuff. :/
So what? Some people can't help but get off to child porn, but that's harmful as fuck. Even if no children were harmed in the making of it (such as anime nudes of kids). It's reinforcing attitudes that are directly and irrefutably hurting children, the same way mainstream porn is directly hurting women. Your right to jerk off to whatever you want is a lot less significant than my right to not be oppressed by what you're jerking off to.
Thing is though that women aren't really considered monolithic when it comes to their desires. Its more common to put men in to that idea. That all men want is sex and to be powerful/dominant. Which isn't true obviously. That in fact is where the typical "What do women want?" question comes from. Stereotypically, its men wanting women to be as stereotypically sex obsessed as men so its easier to get in bed with them. Its funny because it may very well be that women are just as interested but that culture has also made it clear that if you are a promiscuous women you are a slut or whore. Men have poisoned their own ability to get laid.
The idea behind the typical asking of "What do women want?" (in common media) is that if you know what a woman wants, its the key to whats in their pants. Its generally thought that almost every reasonably attractive woman already has the key into a man's pants. Existing. They just use that key very selectively. Men/women calling women sluts and whores is just reinforcing the selectivity.
Women are considered monolithic when it comes to their desires by society. What do women want? To fall in love and get married and have kids. Try being a woman who says they don't want kids or don't want to get married and you'll find out that this is true. Of course, you're right that men do have a similar thing with the answer being "sex anytime and always", but don't dismiss the sexism on our side too in favor of your own issues. I do agree that there is an idea of women being monolithic in the sense of "how do I get them to let me fuck them" from men. That's why you have PUAs.
I've never called anyone a slut or whore and never will. Calling a woman a whore or slut is more damaging than calling them a bitch because it's telling women that being promiscuous is shameful. While calling them a bitch is telling them they shouldn't be aggressive. And I don't generally like aggressive people anyway because I'm kind of a wuss. (outside of movies and video game I guess, in which case, I'm 100% ok with women being aggressive, good example: Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica was one of my favorite characters). I've never called a woman a bitch either though.
Good, please continue never using those words, and please call other men out when they do. This is one of the main roles a man has as a feminist ally. If a man calls me a bitch and I call him out on it, chances are I'll just be called even more of a bitch for that. When someone is firmly rooted in misogyny (even if it's casual misogyny), they sometimes won't listen to women. That's where you need to come in. You have to understand though that even though you don't like aggressive people, typically women who are called bitches aren't being aggressive. They'll be called bitches simply for speaking up at all, or for being assertive (way different than aggression), or simply just for existing. Don't just equate that word with aggression. For some men, women are being aggressive (to them) if they do ANYTHING outside their gender role.
My older brother has (not to their face of course). Only in reference to women in porn or women that he had sex with little work put in. I'm unsure if he looked down on them for that.
Yes. He did. Even if only subconsciously, those words are a statement that express misogyny. It's probably not his fault, either. This is such a huge part of society that we have drilled into our brains from birth. It's hard to overcome that. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be expected to though.
Actually, would objectifying a male be more common as (or more likely, just stereotypical) to view them as human ATM machines? Rather than sexual objects. The "Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money" concept. It's certainly a shallow thing to base a relationship on, just as shallow as just wanting a fuck object.
How many relationships do you personally know that are based on money? The golddigger stereotype is pretty pervasive, but is it true? For the sake of argument, let's assume it is (although I absolutely don't think it represents any large percentage of women). Something you need to start doing when you examine the patriarchy is always ask "why". Don't just say "hey, some women only marry men for money! What about that?!" Why? Well, some women are told that this is the only way they can get ahead in life. They're never told ways THEY can be successful, they're told that their success lies in grabbing a successful man. I'll take any excuse to talk about The Facts of Life, but this scene is pretty relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aZYs23NllZc#t=229s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aZYs23NllZc#t=229s) (about 4 minutes in if it doesn't skip there automatically). Why is this joke funny? Because it's true. Because women are told this. To this day they're told this. Marry a good man instead of having a career. Is this sexism against men? Or is it sexism against women? It's a symptom of patriarchy that is telling women that they should not be in the workplace. How else are women supposed to gain power and money (which is something our capitalist society tells us is the most important thing)? Their only option is to "marry a good man".
But, as I said earlier and as you seem to believe also, this stereotype isn't prevalent anyway. Women aren't doing this in the numbers that are portrayed in media and popular culture. Now let's look at what you're comparing it to--the sexual objectification of women. Would you say that women aren't really objectified and that that's just a stereotype too? Based on my personal experience, I can tell you absolutely no. They are objectified, every single day their entire lives. This is doing serious harm to women. The idea that women are supposed to be available for men's sexual gratification is what leads to things like harassment. Catcalling. Groping. And rape. This is why you need to quit looking for an analogue to men. You can't find a comparison. When you're the group in power, you're never going to have a convenient flipside to the issue. There is no simple reverse that can apply to men, and there won't be in a patriarchy ever.
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As for the science being bullshit, I've read articles pushing either side of this argument. Some saying gender roles are part of our biology, some saying its just in our heads, some saying its a mixture of both. It's hard to identify what is true. It starts to all just sound like hearsay. I have no real concrete belief on the subject because of that.
"In our heads" isn't really a sufficient characterization of the view that gender is a cultural construct. It's not an individual belief, or even a collective hallucination, but rather an ongoing biocultural process. Culturally, gender roles are reproduced by institutions and systemic happenings, rather then by individual choice or two-person discourse. Biologically, the effects of gendering are not exclusively constrained to brain stuff. You should keep in mind that some societies have third genders, or very different male/female gender roles. Here's a wikipedia page all about third genders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender). Wikipedia's more general gender roles article is a little unbalanced on the subject of cultural construction though. It's also common to think that because something is seen as natural, it's also good or right or efficient. I think that enough evidence has been thrown around in this thread over the past few weeks to establish that the patriarchal gender roles that some people have claimed are natural are not good, right, or efficient. Them being natural is highly dubious at best. Nature itself is a problematic concept. Human biology does not exist in isolation from human culture - they shape each other, and culture can be seen as one biological process that produces frustrations for outdated modes of thought on biology that focus overly on the individual organism and its perceived features.
I'm not particularly educated on this subject, but it's a significant interest for several of my friends, so I'm fairly confident I can get you decent answers on the science if you're really interested. They've certainly fostered in me the view that most of the science that tries to confirm normative gender roles are Natural Truth is poorly conducted bullshit or very out of date or both. Off hand, one recommended the article Krieger N 2003. Genders sexes and health : what are the connections -- and why does it matter?, which I had a quick flick through on Google Scholar and looks like an interesting look at it from a health perspective. Although I didn't have time to read it in any detail.
summary: it's easy to get confused by the psychologists on this one because they can use the time they save by not looking at any of the evidence to write populist novels and newspaper articles. but they're probably wrong or at least highly misleading.
edit: sorry if this post comes off as a little grouchy given that i'm addressing very common misconceptions. i'm Mad About Science.
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Wikipedia's more general gender roles article is a little unbalanced on the subject of cultural construction though.
I agree with Biggles' post, which I want to make clear before I post this since what I'm about to post is only tangentially related, but this post made me want to write a short post about the gender politics of Wikipedia, which are pretty interesting and also upsetting. Wikipedia is overwhelmingly written by men (I believe it's something like 85% men). It's everyone's go-to source for quick info, but a lot of articles (especially articles ABOUT gender issues) are heavily skewed. Read the article about men's rights or friend zone or misandry and you'll see what I mean. And definitely read their talk pages too. You'll see people pointing out the bias in the articles being outvoted by the overwhelmingly male userbase. This leads to bias going unchecked. It's altering the way this information is viewed since Wikipedia is where everyone goes to get a quick overview of subjects. It's just another example of patriarchy shaping society yet again. Wikipedia doesn't represent a crowdsourced constantly-in-check viewpoint of the world, it's a viewpoint of men. It's The World According To Men.
I think it's interesting to look at this quote from a few months ago:
Sue Gardner, the executive director of Wikimedia, which runs Wikipedia, said her goal is to make the share of female contributors 25 percent by 2015.
2015. 3 years to get one fourth of Wikipedia edited by women. This is how horribly skewed our society is.
e: On a similar note, and this is a genuine question that maybe some of you more into scientific research might know the answer to, but how CAN you study something like "are we born with patriarchal attitudes"? I mean, socialization pretty much begins at birth, so is it even possible to study that? Your brain is being shaped to conform to the patriarchy right away. How can you study it in a vacuum? I don't personally see how it's possible, but some of you might know some way.
e2: If any of you are interested in one idea of a society without gender, I just got done reading Woman On The Edge Of Time in one of my classes and it was an excellent read. It's fiction, and it deals with a potential somewhat-utopian future (I say somewhat because it's definitely not problem-free, but the society it focuses on IS post-racist and post-sexist and whatnot).
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e: On a similar note, and this is a genuine question that maybe some of you more into scientific research might know the answer to, but how CAN you study something like "are we born with patriarchal attitudes"? I mean, socialization pretty much begins at birth, so is it even possible to study that? Your brain is being shaped to conform to the patriarchy right away. How can you study it in a vacuum? I don't personally see how it's possible, but some of you might know some way.
Not the best person to answer this, but we can look at related issues in cognitive science to get an approximation of how you could look into this matter. Universal grammar is one example. The idea is that there's a language-specific genetic component that distinguishes human beings from animals, the corollary being that human beings have naturally unique language capabilities. One of the capabilities that's most often cited is recursion, which is something that all languages that have been studied to this date exhibit.
So the obvious thing to do would be to investigate whether cultures other than our own, both current and historical, have, in isolation, come to manifest the same patriarchal gender roles.
I think there probably is a minor genetic component to it. Namely, the fact that women have children. Which means that even in prehistorical tribes, during pregnancy, they were more often confined to the home and unable to do physically demanding work than men. Which leads to a natural divide in labor roles: women get to do other, "minor" tasks, such as preparing food and creating clothes, which are easy to do while pregnant or looking after children.
The difference with something like universal grammar is that it's not a built-in cognitive factor, although it's still probably one of the root causes for why so many societies are patriarchal: they started out like that and the attitudes became so ingrained that they never changed. You could come up with other genetic factors, like the fact that in our hypothetical antiquity it would be more beneficial for reproductive reasons to sacrifice men in defense of the tribe than women. So men are the more obvious candidates to go hunting and to war.
But it's like Biggles said:
Nature itself is a problematic concept. Human biology does not exist in isolation from human culture - they shape each other, and culture can be seen as one biological process that produces frustrations for outdated modes of thought on biology that focus overly on the individual organism and its perceived features.
You could come up with genetic reasons, and they can be right or wrong, but none of that has any necessary bearing on how things ought to be. Lots of natural processes are extremely inefficient and incorrect. Our cognitive abilities permitted us to create culture, which in turn permits us to shed the simpleton logic in favor of something more sensible.
So, as for the question of whether patriarchy is "natural" or not, you have to keep the context in mind. We don't have to go hunting anymore, and it's reasonable to assume that the patriarchy of the ancient tribes would have been a direct result of the primordial need of survival. I'd have to say that none of the genetic components that can be (and historically have been) used to define gender roles can really be proven to be built into our cognitive abilities. It might have been convenient for an ancient tribe, but that doesn't prove that it necessarily follows for a modern society. Physiological differences between men and women exist, but they're relatively minor and make very little difference in a non-hunter-gatherer society.
Besides, all this talk over whether or not certain things are genetic seems to me to be an attempt at killing the discussion, because "why bother fighting human nature?" There are plenty of good reasons to do so.
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Holy fucker there is a AKB48 anime and it's on my hard drive right now do I dare to play it to see if it's any good.
Edit1: To be fare it's more like AKB0048 where entertainment is banned.
Edit2: the production on the show is high but the story is just out there. (in space)
Well now on to the next anime Phi brain season 2 eps 4
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Guys would it help this discussion if I posted pictures of gay porn re: SEXUALISED MEN!!!?
I AM WILLING TO HELP GUYS!!! (pls say yes)
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But Faust, gay porn is men being sexualized for the benefit of men, not women. Gosh, learn some equality already ! ! !
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faust that would help a lot and you should do it
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If that the case then let me be the first one to post a big cock.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/DDayDark/rjf_rooster3.webp)
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it's a kukko.
Faust you should learn to have some männers.
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look at this flaccid dick
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/11/5/1257422182023/Richard-Nixon-003.jpeg)
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go for it faust, get some cool and nice butts itt
This is what I was saying basically. But why aren't they "generally considered attractive"? Because look at the standard of beauty promoted in every single bit of media. Muscular women aren't there. It's incredibly skinny women with every single bulge or crease photoshopped out of them. This reinforces the idea that this is what is supposed to be attractive to men and that this is what a woman should strive towards. And god forbid you're a WoC, because as far as ads are concerned Beyonce isn't black anymore, she's photoshopped to a more acceptable "just slightly tan". We live in a world where the standard of beauty is decided for us before we're born. I remember us having an argument in #saltw about whether or not men generally found supermodels attractive, and the men who said they didn't were told they were just lying to be edgy or rebellious or whatever. In our patriarchy, men who don't immediately want to have sex with Barbie are considered less of a man. It's bad for everyone involved, but it hurts women far worse since they're the ones hurting their bodies to try to achieve a standard of beauty that these days isn't even physically possible due to photoshop.
I agree with the point, but I disagree with parts of the process. a lot of talk about this sort of thing attempts to remove the biological-sociological aspect from the equation. and for good reason, because it's a really difficult subject to pull any truths from, but ignoring it creates some broad strokes. let's take a look at the awful world of porn: at this point, the number of women who have large butts and thighs probably exceeds those who still have the skinny-busty look (tho tummies are still unmarketable, unless you make the leap to the BBW niche). that's not what the rest of the media says should be attractive, but in porn it sells.
I also think it's difficult say what is actually "generally considered attractive" (Warped - read this if you're skimming). the only way we as humans can get large enough of a sample size to think we know what everyone likes, is to listen to the media's distorted garbage. it's highly doubtful that's actually what the majority of straight western men find attractive, that's just what we're told they find attractive. they may even say "yeah of course I find super models sexy!" but is that really how they feel? probably not. it's an entirely artificial standard of beauty, which I think is unique to our piece history
and I don't know if muscular women ever had the chance to be widely considered attractive, even before national or global media. like that's one thing I find attractive, but I'm in the unique position of being a white educated northeast american male who had a uh interesting life growing up. I once wrote a class thesis paper on the perception of female beauty throughout history and across the world, and it's really an immensely interesting topic - from the cults of pregnancy and fertility (WILLENDORF WOMAN) to the botticelli bullshit to the pre-media architecture-inspired fashions to the convoluted garbage that's been going on for a while
also since you brought it up I have to mention that beyonce likely had rhinoplasty and generally wears light-colored straight hair. that's what it took, or that's what she felt/was told it'd take
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at this point, the number of women who have large butts and thighs probably exceeds those who still have the skinny-busty look (tho tummies are still unmarketable, unless you make the leap to the BBW niche). that's not what the rest of the media says should be attractive, but in porn it sells.
Well, if such a difference exists, it's not all too surprising given that porn and things such as advertisement posters are distinctly different things. At the very least, they're still largely the same, and their respective aesthetics are defined by the patriarchal society.
The reason why I'm skeptical about there being much of a difference at all is because I actually think there's some more awareness now about just how decadent the traditional image of beauty is, in part due to increased public knowledge on disorders like bulimia or anorexia. It's not that much different, but I think some minor progress has been made on that front.
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But Faust, gay porn is men being sexualized for the benefit of men, not women. Gosh, learn some equality already ! ! !
Of course! I am MAXIMUM TARGET MARKET for sure!
I just thought it'd help to have some erotica while we discuss ;_;, just in case no one have seen a twink or bear b4.
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i saw some nude larger gay gentlemen on skatewytch's tumblr they seemed very contented
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I just thought it'd help to have some erotica while we discuss ;_;, just in case no one have seen a twink or bear b4.
I'm pretty sure all them überstraight males have (or in fact anyone who has an internet connection), they just don't want to admit it.
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is twink an offensive term btw? I'm not in on the lingo, but several years ago a friend of mine told me it was insulting outside the porn industry
Well, if such a difference exists, it's not all too surprising given that porn and things such as advertisement posters are distinctly different things. At the very least, they're still largely the same, and their respective aesthetics are defined by the patriarchal society.
The reason why I'm skeptical about there being much of a difference at all is because I actually think there's some more awareness now about just how decadent the traditional image of beauty is, in part due to increased public knowledge on disorders like bulimia or anorexia. It's not that much different, but I think some minor progress has been made on that front.
there is no difference in the sense you're talking about, and that's part of the point. but porn is, of course, sold to men singularly for their sexual arousal, whereas ads and the like apply this circular impossible standard of "beauty" and mainly target women. that's a point actually - the impossible geometry models aren't meant to appeal to men as often as women, riding upon the standards of womanhood created by (patriarchal) society
there's not really a 'traditional' image of beauty btw. the corset-wearing/rococo etc style is quite different from the skinny supermodel or skinny & busty style you see today, and that's only other historical "skinny" style I can think of. and that's just talking about the west, or really just europe and some of the colonies
and let's not forget that thin is also a body type some women have naturally, and that's just part of what's been absorbed and perverted into the impossible image of beauty
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is twink an offensive term btw? I'm not in on the lingo, but several years ago a friend of mine told me it was insulting outside the porn industry
I've only ever heard it used within the porn industry, so possibly. I think in general you probably shouldn't use any porn terminology outside of porn.
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yeah, like shemale and the like is used all the time in porn and is really offensive. bear is probably the only one that goes in both situations
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In actuality, while it (EDIT: TWINKS in this post, NEVER SHEMALES) probably should be offensive (same with BEAR), they're both terms widely used on the 'scene'.
As in the PROMISCUOUS WHO WE SLEEP WITH TONIGHT scene lol!
But ya, weirdly most gay people don't take offence to them. Often you're aware of what ARCHETYPE CATEGORY you fall into and MAKE THE BEST OF IT!!!
Maybe it's because there aren't huge amounts of negative attributes associated with each stereotype within the subculture? Like the negative attributes of a 'twink' are considered immaturity, obsession with looks etc, shallowness, but to a guy who is literally just looking to hook up for a night they aren't considered extremely terrible traits XD.
I don't think many gaymos looking for a relationship start of with "HELLO I AM A BEAR" or whatever.
DISCLAIMER: I do not speak for all gay people, and this is just empirical shit. There could be many gay peoples that find the terms offensive, I just haven't really encountered them. On sites like GAYDAR.CO.UK and shit people use the terms to describe themselves etc.
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yeah, like shemale and the like is used all the time in porn and is really offensive. bear is probably the only one that goes in both situations
Shemale is a pretty disgusting term. I've had to correct otherwise nice young people from using this term a LOT more than other sexuality/racial based epithets.
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HUGE POST IS HUGE (sorry, had to edit it into 4 separate posts, I reached the character limit.)
It's hard for you to imagine ads without objectification (particularly of women) because it's so widespread. However, it's pretty self-defeating to say "well, we can't change it so I guess we should just objectify men too to make it fair". That doesn't fix anything, that would still leave women being objectified. You need to think on a bigger scale. The big thing here is that you can't just fix the symptoms of oppression. You have to start changing the way people think. The more people who embrace feminism and realize that objectifying women isn't cool, the more companies start getting backlash and the less they'll be willing to do it in their ads. There has been a LOT of controversy over ads in recent years. I'm not saying that it's going to be anytime soon, but I think ads are slowly going to be objectifying women less because it's becoming less acceptable. The Boston API Jam that posted a (PURELY TEXT) flyer that objectified women got enough backlash that sponsors pulled out and I believe the event was cancelled altogether. We're not quite there yet, but we are slowly getting to where it's not going to be financially viable to objectify women. Just trying to "settle" for objectifying men too is counterproductive.
Changing the fundamental way people think on such a wide spread scale seems unequivocally impossible. But really the reason I talk about fixing the symptoms because of 2 things, DOMINO EFFECT (as in fixing 1 thing may lead to fixing others), and the fact that I'm just a VERY VERY detail-oriented person. I can't look at the bigger picture. I can't think that way. I have to look at the little bits and fix those in order to fix the bigger picture.
This is what I was saying basically. But why aren't they "generally considered attractive"? Because look at the standard of beauty promoted in every single bit of media. Muscular women aren't there. It's incredibly skinny women with every single bulge or crease photoshopped out of them. This reinforces the idea that this is what is supposed to be attractive to men and that this is what a woman should strive towards. And god forbid you're a WoC, because as far as ads are concerned Beyonce isn't black anymore, she's photoshopped to a more acceptable "just slightly tan". We live in a world where the standard of beauty is decided for us before we're born. I remember us having an argument in #saltw about whether or not men generally found supermodels attractive, and the men who said they didn't were told they were just lying to be edgy or rebellious or whatever. In our patriarchy, men who don't immediately want to have sex with Barbie are considered less of a man. It's bad for everyone involved, but it hurts women far worse since they're the ones hurting their bodies to try to achieve a standard of beauty that these days isn't even physically possible due to photoshop.
I wouldn't say they would be considered less of a man, just an oddball. But yeah, I agree that the photoshopped perfection shit is very harmful to women on a psychological level. That's Hollywood being stupid and shitty though.
Oh, there are tons of articles enforcing "biotruths". That doesn't mean they're valid. I'd like to see links to the articles you're talking about though. Like I said, the vast majority of sociologists agree that it's a matter of socialization. You have to also consider that all the scientific research is being done in a patriarchal society to begin with (and done mostly by men (again because of the patriarchy (smash the patriarchy delete all sexism))) and it can at times be horribly biased.
I unfortunately brought them up as mere memories. I don't remember where I read them. Thing is that on ANY TOPIC that is even remotely debated there always seems to be 2 groups claiming to be scientific and accurate but they also seem to suggest the opposite results of each other. Making it very hard IN GENERAL to identify whats true and what is not.
There's nothing wrong with porn focusing on men in theory. The problem is...well, this:
Porn has always been male-gazey as fuck, but it's just gotten more and more disgusting. Go to any porn site and click on the pictures on the front page. Ask yourself--is this objectifying? Is this a harmful view of women? Chances are the answer is going to be "absolutely yes". It's just supporting the harmful views of women that men get everywhere else. I mean, think about the context porn exists in. We live in a society where women are not supposed to be sexual creatures, where they are not supposed to enjoy sex or seek sex out, merely exist for men to Do Sex to. That is what our society believes, whether you personally agree with it or not. So having porn in which women are literally just there to Be Fucked (aka almost all of straight mainstream porn) is just perpetuating those ideas, which is legitimately 100% oppressing women. It's not just a matter of it not being for me, it is actually harmful. The problem is, it's so prevalent that even if you don't want to watch that kind of porn, you'll have to spend a lot of time finding an alternative, especially for free.
Welp, I have no money for pay porn and I'm sorry to disappoint, but I wont be ceasing my porn watching. I suppose it doesn't matter to much in my case because I realize most porn is unrealistic anyway.
This brings up another question, what would you think would happen if perfect replica sex robots were created successfully and were on the market as offordable? These would effectively be ultimate form of porn. Do you think that would improve things? Since, technically this would mean that the person enjoying the robot sex could do whatever they thought was enjoyable rather than rely on what popular porn media says they should like.
The 3 obvious issues would be: Its arguably already gone to far, so many men would probably just recreate what they saw in porn, regular mainstream porn would probably still be around, and finally one might argue it could further objectify.
True sex robots are probably a pipedream anyway though. or if anything wont be around when any of us are alive... unless science figures out how to extend our lives.
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Depending on what survey you go by, 30-70% of women watch porn. Pretty big gap in those statistics, but you have to consider the patriarchal factors. Women may not admit to it on surveys, and like you said it's stigmatized. You have to consider what you're saying here though. The fact that it's stigmatized for women to watch porn is again a symptom of oppression, because they are not supposed to be sexual creatures. But what about women who do want to watch porn? They tend to have a harder time finding porn that doesn't horribly objectify them, so it is a roadblock. Like I said, there ARE feminist porn directors, but that tends to be pornography you have to pay for (which is why, as I'll talk more about in a minute, people may pay for porn). So what you're saying here is that it's understandable to continue objectifying women for the sake of men watching porn instead of embracing the women who want to? This is coming off as way too Straight Male Gamer-y (if you'll remember the SMG letter, it was about how games shouldn't add gay romance options because they'll alienate the Straight Male Gamer base, ignoring the fact that it's optional to go down these paths and that there are tons of gay gamers who would like the option). You're saying that because men are the majority in a system women are told to stay out of, they should be catered to. Catered to to the point that what they're being shown is actively harmful to women and oppressing them. I don't think so.
No, no, I'm not saying understandable in the sense that we should just keep going with the flow of it. But that its understandable in the sense that one can literally understand why it is the way it is. Which ties into my determinism philosphy in a sense. Like, one can study a serial killer and understand the psychological aspects and why he kills. That obviously doesn't mean we should just say "Oh, ok, You have no choice but to kill people, so its ok, go ahead and murder away" I'm saying you can hate the actions, but not the people involved. At least if you want to be seen as reasonable.
The best course of action for the serial killer is to reform him or at least keep him in prison away from potential victims. Not to kill him. In the same way, Mainstream doesn't need to be destroyed, just reformed. (no I'm not actually equating the porn industry with a human being, just using an example for the purposes of explanation)
At the same time, I kind of hate the idea of censorship in its entirety. So, While I'd be happy if porn just naturally became less misogynist, I wouldn't be OK with their being some sort of active enforcement of the idealistic porn. Not that it'd really be enforceable anyway.
If you're watching porn on the internet and aren't sure if it's mainstream, it's mainstream. If you aren't digging down deep for obscure niche porn, you're watching mainstream porn. Mainstream doesn't mean commercial DVDs, in fact nowadays internet IS the mainstream if anything. As for paying for porn, like I said before there are a lot of good reasons why someone would want to. When mainstream porn is entirely excluding you, you may have to pay money for niche stuff (as I said in a previous post, for example, there's porn made for lesbians that's different than "lesbian porn" on regular sites, but it's usually paid only. Note here that gay male porn is very easily accessed online, because again, men are supposed to be sexual whereas men are not). Really, when you have niche porn, you typically can't just make up the money in ad revenue like mainstream porn. It's understandable. You say "I've never paid for porn", but stop and think about the fact that you're a man. Mainstream porn is catering to you.
Yeah, ok, I understand.
So what? Some people can't help but get off to child porn, but that's harmful as fuck. Even if no children were harmed in the making of it (such as anime nudes of kids). It's reinforcing attitudes that are directly and irrefutably hurting children, the same way mainstream porn is directly hurting women. Your right to jerk off to whatever you want is a lot less significant than my right to not be oppressed by what you're jerking off to.
I guess you don't prescribe to the concept that such porn is an outlet for frustration rather than the equivalent of a "gateway to worse things".
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Women are considered monolithic when it comes to their desires by society. What do women want? To fall in love and get married and have kids. Try being a woman who says they don't want kids or don't want to get married and you'll find out that this is true. Of course, you're right that men do have a similar thing with the answer being "sex anytime and always", but don't dismiss the sexism on our side too in favor of your own issues. I do agree that there is an idea of women being monolithic in the sense of "how do I get them to let me fuck them" from men. That's why you have PUAs.
I'm not dismissing, I only brought it up because its seems to me that its more prevailent. I don't actually know to many woman/girls that just want to make babies. Actually I don't know any. I KNOW I KNOW personal experience doesn't make it true. Just hard to beleive that the 'baby/husband crazy' stereotype is actually believed in.
Good, please continue never using those words, and please call other men out when they do. This is one of the main roles a man has as a feminist ally. If a man calls me a bitch and I call him out on it, chances are I'll just be called even more of a bitch for that. When someone is firmly rooted in misogyny (even if it's casual misogyny), they sometimes won't listen to women. That's where you need to come in. You have to understand though that even though you don't like aggressive people, typically women who are called bitches aren't being aggressive. They'll be called bitches simply for speaking up at all, or for being assertive (way different than aggression), or simply just for existing. Don't just equate that word with aggression. For some men, women are being aggressive (to them) if they do ANYTHING outside their gender role.
Noted.
Yes. He did. Even if only subconsciously, those words are a statement that express misogyny. It's probably not his fault, either. This is such a huge part of society that we have drilled into our brains from birth. It's hard to overcome that. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be expected to though.
Normally I'd say I wouldn't be so unsure because outside of his typical use of whore/slut/bitch/fag (which to be honest is still rare for even him to use) because he's generally a pretty left minded thinker. But yeah, he's sort of ingrained in the "I want to be cool" culture of being un-empathetic and cruel sometimes.
How many relationships do you personally know that are based on money? The golddigger stereotype is pretty pervasive, but is it true? For the sake of argument, let's assume it is (although I absolutely don't think it represents any large percentage of women). Something you need to start doing when you examine the patriarchy is always ask "why". Don't just say "hey, some women only marry men for money! What about that?!" Why? Well, some women are told that this is the only way they can get ahead in life. They're never told ways THEY can be successful, they're told that their success lies in grabbing a successful man. I'll take any excuse to talk about The Facts of Life, but this scene is pretty relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aZYs23NllZc#t=229s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aZYs23NllZc#t=229s) (about 4 minutes in if it doesn't skip there automatically). Why is this joke funny? Because it's true. Because women are told this. To this day they're told this. Marry a good man instead of having a career. Is this sexism against men? Or is it sexism against women? It's a symptom of patriarchy that is telling women that they should not be in the workplace. How else are women supposed to gain power and money (which is something our capitalist society tells us is the most important thing)? Their only option is to "marry a good man".
I'll admit I don't know any women that are actual 'gold diggers'. I agree that if a woman wants to be successful in life she should be able to get a job supporting herself without worrying about being paid less or being dismissed entirely because they lack a penis. I also agree that its an unfortunate side effect of success equaling having a lot of money. Obviously though, I wouldn't assume it makes up a large potion of women either.
But, as I said earlier and as you seem to believe also, this stereotype isn't prevalent anyway. Women aren't doing this in the numbers that are portrayed in media and popular culture. Now let's look at what you're comparing it to--the sexual objectification of women. Would you say that women aren't really objectified and that that's just a stereotype too? Based on my personal experience, I can tell you absolutely no. They are objectified, every single day their entire lives. This is doing serious harm to women. The idea that women are supposed to be available for men's sexual gratification is what leads to things like harassment. Catcalling. Groping. And rape. This is why you need to quit looking for an analogue to men. You can't find a comparison. When you're the group in power, you're never going to have a convenient flipside to the issue. There is no simple reverse that can apply to men, and there won't be in a patriarchy ever.
No, its not prevalent. And women obviously OVERALL have it worse than men. OVERWHELMINGLY. YES. I AGREE. But saying the group in power doesn't have unique problems of their own isn't right either. That their problems ALSO can't really be understood unless you ARE one of them. I know such flipsides aren't equivalent, but they are still problems. I don't want to make it about MEN, I just happen to be a male is all.
I remember one time making a post on GW in "what are you thinking about" and talking about a unfortunate case where there was a girl I had a crush on but she got together with someone else. I thought the guy she got with was a cool guy so I just regrettably let it go because I didn't want to create an unhappy situation by going for it. Someone posted basically attacking me for being a social-inept/wussy and not going for it anyway.
Close up shot of woman (made to look as young as possible) gagging while being skullfucked. Dick is removed and then jizzes over woman's face, camera fades out while woman is swallowing.
cumdumpstersluts5 Anal eWRECKtion
Yes, see, I don't watch that.
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*skipped a bit for space*... let's take a look at the awful world of porn: at this point, the number of women who have large butts and thighs probably exceeds those who still have the skinny-busty look (tho tummies are still unmarketable, unless you make the leap to the BBW niche). that's not what the rest of the media says should be attractive, but in porn it sells.
I also think it's difficult say what is actually "generally considered attractive" (Warped - read this if you're skimming). the only way we as humans can get large enough of a sample size to think we know what everyone likes, is to listen to the media's distorted garbage. it's highly doubtful that's actually what the majority of straight western men find attractive, that's just what we're told they find attractive. they may even say "yeah of course I find super models sexy!" but is that really how they feel? probably not. it's an entirely artificial standard of beauty, which I think is unique to our piece history
and I don't know if muscular women ever had the chance to be widely considered attractive, even before national or global media. like that's one thing I find attractive, but I'm in the unique position of being a white educated northeast american male who had a uh interesting life growing up. I once wrote a thesis paper on the perception of female beauty throughout history and across the world, and it's really an immensely interesting topic - from the cults of pregnancy and fertility (WILLENDORF WOMAN) to the botticelli bullshit to the pre-media architecture-inspired fashions to the convoluted garbage that's been going on for a while
This all makes sense and I largely agree with it. I should say, as an individual, I couldn't find a particularly muscular woman attractive. I can say that at least. :/ Like, VERY MILD muscle tone is fine though. I can't help but think this might be generally common for most men, but I can't be sure.
Not the best person to answer this, but we can look at related issues in cognitive science to get an approximation of how you could look into this matter. Universal grammar is one example. The idea is that there's a language-specific genetic component that distinguishes human beings from animals, the corollary being that human beings have naturally unique language capabilities. One of the capabilities that's most often cited is recursion, which is something that all languages that have been studied to this date exhibit.
So the obvious thing to do would be to investigate whether cultures other than our own, both current and historical, have, in isolation, come to manifest the same patriarchal gender roles.
I think there probably is a minor genetic component to it. Namely, the fact that women have children. Which means that even in prehistorical tribes, during pregnancy, they were more often confined to the home and unable to do physically demanding work than men. Which leads to a natural divide in labor roles: women get to do other, "minor" tasks, such as preparing food and creating clothes, which are easy to do while pregnant or looking after children.
The difference with something like universal grammar is that it's not a built-in cognitive factor, although it's still probably one of the root causes for why so many societies are patriarchal: they started out like that and the attitudes became so ingrained that they never changed. You could come up with other genetic factors, like the fact that in our hypothetical antiquity it would be more beneficial for reproductive reasons to sacrifice men in defense of the tribe than women. So men are the more obvious candidates to go hunting and to war.
But it's like Biggles said:
You could come up with genetic reasons, and they can be right or wrong, but none of that has any necessary bearing on how things ought to be. Lots of natural processes are extremely inefficient and incorrect. Our cognitive abilities permitted us to create culture, which in turn permits us to shed the simpleton logic in favor of something more sensible.
So, as for the question of whether patriarchy is "natural" or not, you have to keep the context in mind. We don't have to go hunting anymore, and it's reasonable to assume that the patriarchy of the ancient tribes would have been a direct result of the primordial need of survival. I'd have to say that none of the genetic components that can be (and historically have been) used to define gender roles can really be proven to be built into our cognitive abilities. It might have been convenient for an ancient tribe, but that doesn't prove that it necessarily follows for a modern society. Physiological differences between men and women exist, but they're relatively minor and make very little difference in a non-hunter-gatherer society.
Besides, all this talk over whether or not certain things are genetic seems to me to be an attempt at killing the discussion, because "why bother fighting human nature?" There are plenty of good reasons to do so.
This is pretty much the answer to some questions that have been floating in my head. I sort of had those answers vaguely, but not so concretely or encompassing.
I agree with Biggles' post, which I want to make clear before I post this since what I'm about to post is only tangentially related, but this post made me want to write a short post about the gender politics of Wikipedia, which are pretty interesting and also upsetting. Wikipedia is overwhelmingly written by men (I believe it's something like 85% men). It's everyone's go-to source for quick info, but a lot of articles (especially articles ABOUT gender issues) are heavily skewed. Read the article about men's rights or friend zone or misandry and you'll see what I mean. And definitely read their talk pages too. You'll see people pointing out the bias in the articles being outvoted by the overwhelmingly male userbase. This leads to bias going unchecked. It's altering the way this information is viewed since Wikipedia is where everyone goes to get a quick overview of subjects. It's just another example of patriarchy shaping society yet again. Wikipedia doesn't represent a crowdsourced constantly-in-check viewpoint of the world, it's a viewpoint of men. It's The World According To Men.
Wikipedia is only the view point of men because that is who 85% of the time edits it. Everyone can edit it. Freely. Women need to choose to edit it more! Am I wrong? IDK if you are saying we should feel guilty over being the 85% on Wikipedia or what. I'm probably misinterpreting your post but that is what it sounds like. When I look at Wikipedia, I see an encyclopedia edited by people who care enough to edit it. Careipedia, not Manipedia.
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I don't really feel the need to go through your entire posts and reply to everything since I think on the whole we agree, although there are a few things I want to post about when I'm done eating. I do want to go ahead and reply to the thing about wikipedia though.
Wikipedia is only the view point of men because that is who 85% of the time edits it. Everyone can edit it. Freely. Women need to choose to edit it more! Am I wrong? IDK if you are saying we should feel guilty over being the 85% on Wikipedia or what. I'm probably misinterpreting your post but that is what it sounds like. When I look at Wikipedia, I see an encyclopedia edited by people who care enough to edit it. Careipedia, not Manipedia.
It's not a matter of women not choosing to edit it. Wikipedia is PRETTY HOSTILE on some subjects. Again, look at the talk pages for the men's rights and friend zone and misandry pages. Women are literally INCAPABLE of making these pages more neutral because the men won't allow it. Yes, women can edit it. Men can edit it back. When you have a majority of men who want it a certain way, even if that way is horribly biased, there's nothing women can really do about it. It's not that women don't care to edit it, it's that they are outnumbered.
The whole idea of "women aren't present in this space, therefore women aren't interested" in a common trope of misogyny. A lot of people believe that the reason so few women play in, say, competitive fighting game tournaments, is because they aren't good enough or they aren't interested in it. They completely ignore that a) women are absolutely excluded from gaming circles in general, b) many fighting games are absurdly sexist, which turns women off and c) sexism in the fighting game community is 100% tolerated. See the recent controversy over a woman in the fighting game circuit being harassed to the point where she threw the rest of the matches just to get out of there faster. You can't separate this from the patriarchy. It's never just a matter of "women aren't as interested", you have to look at WHY they aren't participating. Even if they AREN'T interested, you have to ask yourself why they aren't interested. Why aren't women interested in bodybuilding? A lot are, or would be, but because it's frowned upon they don't pursue it. When you have a majority of men, you'll often just give up. A lot of women don't WANT to be The Woman Who Is Trying To Wreck The Misandry Page For Us Men. There's too much hostility to you. You also have to consider the general issues with women in "men's spaces" in general. The internet on the whole is not welcoming to women (in the same way society at large isn't). It's hard for women to speak up, because there's so much backlash. One of the reasons there are so many feminist spaces that don't allow men in AT ALL is because the mere act of having a man nearby causes women to act differently. They're socialized to defer to men, so they're less likely to truly say what they want with men around. This applies to society, it applies to the internet and it applies to Wikipedia. It's missing the big picture to just say women aren't interested or don't care. Of course, the question is what do you do about it? It's incredibly hard to say. I don't know myself how to get more women involved in Wikipedia except DESTROY THE PATRIARCHY FIRST. It's a "in order to make an apple pie you must first create the universe" situation.
e: important reading http://suegardner.org/2011/02/19/nine-reasons-why-women-dont-edit-wikipedia-in-their-own-words/
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dag, bbc is really stepping their game up
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yeah... i think topic would improve a lot by erotic gay pictures, curiosity for the win!!!!
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i don't particularly care about looking at gay porn, but that would preclude me from reading this at work/public computer labs
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if any of you wanna know what non-misogynistic sex-positive porn can look like, check out http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/ (http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/)
it's pics, not vids but it's pretty damn encouraging to see this stuff. we live with an internet where seeing peope smiling/laughing while fucking is UNUSUAL
e: they reblog/post a lot of cool text stuff too about sex-positivity
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I agree with Biggles' post, which I want to make clear before I post this since what I'm about to post is only tangentially related, but this post made me want to write a short post about the gender politics of Wikipedia, which are pretty interesting and also upsetting. Wikipedia is overwhelmingly written by men (I believe it's something like 85% men). It's everyone's go-to source for quick info, but a lot of articles (especially articles ABOUT gender issues) are heavily skewed. Read the article about men's rights or friend zone or misandry and you'll see what I mean. And definitely read their talk pages too. You'll see people pointing out the bias in the articles being outvoted by the overwhelmingly male userbase. This leads to bias going unchecked. It's altering the way this information is viewed since Wikipedia is where everyone goes to get a quick overview of subjects. It's just another example of patriarchy shaping society yet again. Wikipedia doesn't represent a crowdsourced constantly-in-check viewpoint of the world, it's a viewpoint of men. It's The World According To Men.
I think it's interesting to look at this quote from a few months ago:
2015. 3 years to get one fourth of Wikipedia edited by women. This is how horribly skewed our society is.
Yeah, it's definitely kind of glaring when you go into anything about the social sciences, especially if it mentions gender. I have this particular imaginary guy who writes about half the articles in that area, I think of him as Mr. Wikipedia. He is an undergraduate student in psychology, has taken some sociology and reads a lot of science magazines and online reports on research. Was good with physics in school but didn't take history very far. Some of his friends are feminists but he thinks of himself as more of a gender egalitarian and he's not sure their arguments were totally scientific. He knows about anthropologists, but the ones he met were pretentious condescending dicks who didn't like quantitative methods (probably because they had a primitive fetish lol.)
e: On a similar note, and this is a genuine question that maybe some of you more into scientific research might know the answer to, but how CAN you study something like "are we born with patriarchal attitudes"? I mean, socialization pretty much begins at birth, so is it even possible to study that? Your brain is being shaped to conform to the patriarchy right away. How can you study it in a vacuum? I don't personally see how it's possible, but some of you might know some way.
This is a good/important question. I think that to answer the it honestly, you'd have to break it down into several different claims that can be investigated. Most of them could not be investigated in the lab alone, but would be furnished by some evidence gained in labs since understanding the genetics helps to debunk some of the dafter claims, and understanding physiology helps to look at effects of social stuff on our bodies. It leads into a more general question - how do you study sociocultural phenomena when everything you do is coloured by and situated in your own social world and cultural framework of interpretation? I couldn't find you a decent source for a really good answer, but it's a fundamental question of ethnographic research. There's a lot of different responses to it, but my friends who are interested in this stuff are anthropologists, so I have learned their ideas and biases. It's suggested that through reflexivity, you can try to highlight your own biases and assumptions, and through holism can try to see the thing you're studying as part of a wider system. Gender, for example, has relationships with division of labour, power, kinship, viewpoints of space etc. Not that you're unaware of that, but that it's proposed that by foregrounding these ideas when we study cultural stuffs, we might produce more useful analysis. Sustained qualitative research through immersion is emphasised over surveys. You can also get data from the historical and archaeological record. I know even less about history, but I understand that historians also make a serious job of taking into account the biases and social circumstances of the people who write history. So that's how you might collect cultural data. According to someone who is not very knowledgeable on the subject.
Once we have the necessary data, there's two ways I'm aware of people attacking this question. One is by looking at how gender roles have changed over history in different parts of the world. These would provide refutations of specific hypotheses on gender and sex. Foucault's History of Sexuality, for example (I haven't read it btw) argues that 'sex' as it is understood today is a relatively recently invented idea. The other is by examining gender roles cross-culturally, like the third-genders in my other post, we can look at the differences between gender in different cultural contexts. As we become aware of all the different variations of gender, the circumstances in which they came about will also make themselves known. So doing this will refute some hypotheses and potentially support others, but investigating the specifics will always be complex and contextual.
Don't treat my answer to this as particularly factual or correct, I'm not an expert or even much of a student, but if you're interested in investigating it more seriously, I hope I might have provided some hints at starting points. I think my friends would tell me off for being overly simple in a lot of places though. So if anyone more knowledgeable is lurking, please jump.
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Garresh is a good friend of mine from college, I brought up the discussion with him, eventually we got to this point:
Warped: Velfire says that use not being offended though doesn't really mean anything because we are white males and don't have any really anything COMPARABLE to a minority or a girl. Thus we technically can't understand how slurs can cause emotional pain. in the same way. We are thick skinned because we never had any strong slurs against us.
Garresh: ...
Garresh: That's technically correct, but based on the assumption we've never been discriminated against
Garresh: Try not having friends and being beaten up and picked on by an entire school for a few years.
Garresh: It'll do wonders to your capacity to understand how words can hurt.
Garresh: and then you grow a pair and man the fuck up.
I linked him this topic, so he's slowly reading it. I wanted to see what his thoughts were. Its possible I may be able to convince him to join the forum for discussion. But I don't know.
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Being picked on is not anywhere near the same as being systematically (keyword) oppressed, that's all I can really say about that. You can be picked on by a whole school but that doesn't mean THE ENTIRETY OF SOCIETY is oppressing you from pretty much every angle from birth. Even saying "grow a pair and man the fuck up" completely misses the point and is incredibly dismissive (as well as GENDERED in both parts lol). I feel like with that kind of attitude it's better that your friend just reads instead of responds. He sounds like the type who needs to listen more than speak.
e: If you need resources, here's pretty much the go-to FAQ
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/ (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/)
e2: Another thing he needs to understand is that different forms of oppression (not that his bullying experience is the same as systematic oppression by ANY means) aren't really the same either. I've said this before, but being a woman does not give me insight into what it's like to be a PoC. Being black does not give you insight into being gay. And being bullied definitely does not give you insight into any of these things. Try being bullied by society as a whole your entire life.
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Argh tried to follow but TLDR. Sharon Needles won the crown!
And after discussion with Celes/Vivi it looks like Essence's Eldia may turn out to be a matriarchal society.
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if any of you wanna know what non-misogynistic sex-positive porn can look like, check out http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/ (http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/)
After opening this link I've decided I'm going to stick with my regular porn. Not because of the message, but because there are some very unnatractive people depicted naked there.
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:/ Well, like I said he's a pretty good friend of mine. And I kind of care what he thinks, so i figured it be easier to have the discussion in one place rather than having 2 parallel discussions. So IDK I actually took the "call them out on it" thing and brought up that he used the word bitch and what not. Though calling him out on it wouldn't be entirely accurate to what I did. (not like that's special or anything, I know A LOT of people that use the word... IDK why its with him that I brought it up, probably just because it was on my mind and I happen to talk with him shortly after posting on here)
Also, I remembered that I actually have use the word bitch myself in a negative manor on rare occasion. "Son of a Bitch" but only as a 'curse' under my breath if I say die in an online game or similar situation, not directed at anyone, not even at the person that killed/beat me. Hell, most of the time when I said I don't even know if people were in the same room.
Same as me saying 'shit' or 'fuck' or "goddamn" under my breath in the same context.
To be honest though IDK how interested in the topic he is anyway. He might not respond by literally forgetting about the whole thing.
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ADAM AND EVE WERE THE FIRST CAPITALISTS. THESE ARE THE ONLY TRUTHS WE KNOW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ujS1er1r0&ob=av2n http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ujS1er1r0&ob=av2n http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ujS1er1r0&ob=av2n GOODNIGHT SALTWORLD
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if any of you wanna know what non-misogynistic sex-positive porn can look like, check out http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/ (http://sexisnottheenemy.tumblr.com/)
it's pics, not vids but it's pretty damn encouraging to see this stuff. we live with an internet where seeing peope smiling/laughing while fucking is UNUSUAL
e: they reblog/post a lot of cool text stuff too about sex-positivity
that's pretty cool. tho too much bondage imhom. for most/maybe all of my teens I thought kinky meant bdsm
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not noticing that the links were all identical, i momentarily thought the second one said Zizek Brown Band. i was sorely disappointed.
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not noticing that the links were all identical, i momentarily thought the second one said Zizek Brown Band. i was sorely disappointed.
we must make this video. this will be saltws communal project.
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Its possible I may be able to convince him to join the forum for discussion. But I don't know.
btw, it's not like we're all JUMPING UP AND DOWN IN EXCITEMENT to debate yet another privileged white cis male who doesn't understand what systematic oppression is.
Like I said before, commit that particular keyword to memory. The primary fact underlying all of this is that the oppression is systemic.
edit: don't get me wrong though, I think it's good you're talking to him about this. We should spread the word and talk to other men about this, for reasons of informing them.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/tformers.net/g/generated/17567/DSCN1325__scaled_600.jpeg)
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btw, it's not like we're all JUMPING UP AND DOWN IN EXCITEMENT to debate yet another privileged white cis male who doesn't understand what systematic oppression is.
Like I said before, commit that particular keyword to memory. The primary fact underlying all of this is that the oppression is systemic.
edit: don't get me wrong though, I think it's good you're talking to him about this. We should spread the word and talk to other men about this, for reasons of informing them.
Yeah, I'm gonna be honest I don't have it in me right now to start explaining feminism from the bottom up for the millionth time. If you want I can recommend TONS of blogs etc. you can share with people (and read yourself!) but I can't keep explaining to people the difference between systematic oppression and having bad things happen to you as an individual. I'm glad you're talking to him about it and I hope you continue to learn things yourself, but I'll probably puke if I have to start this all from scratch again.
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I generally like a good discussion. But I understand this has been tiring. I'll let him know that the discussion is largely over. but assuming he would read this far he'd probably get that anyway.
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Actually, after discussing this as much as we have I've grown tired of it as well.
I think my biggest issues stem from my all encompassing belief in anti-censorship (at least to the larger public) that has fueled my thinking for anything against some of your arguments. And still sort of does. For me anti-censorship is a PRINCIPLE that I've largely held for quite a long time and this is the first discussion ever that even produced a waver in it since I took the principle on. And I think there are a few small things that are a part of this discussion that I'm still not running parallel with Dada and Velfire with but don't want to bring up because of the aforementioned tiredness.
To be honest I never believed you guys wanted to talk to my friend either. I don't quite understand why I brought him in on it other than happenstance of discussion. But yeah, he's probably not going to post on it now I had a bit more discussion with him, but I might bring him in on some OTHER discussion later. We could still always use the members.
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Well, not that I want to force you to go on about something you don't feel like talking about, but could you explain what you mean by anti-censorship? Because I don't really think it's relevant here. If a private website decides "this sort of speech isn't acceptable here", it's a decision on what the owners of that site want their site to be about, not a breach of freedom of speech. It's technically a form of censorship but I don't see why you'd be against that. You can't let every website be about everything.
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Yeah, when it comes to private websites, the question boils down to "who do we want here?" By including some people you're automatically going to be excluding others. The question is, do you want to include people who spew hate speech at the expense of good people who are hurt by that speech, or do you want to include those people who don't tolerate it? Basically, do you want people like Inri or people like Fuckcrypt? The two cannot coexist on this site, it boils down to who we want here. EITHER WAY someone is going to be excluded, there is no way to make rules that will keep both here. Personally, I'd rather see a site that excludes hateful people.
I missed this the first time around so:
After opening this link I've decided I'm going to stick with my regular porn. Not because of the message, but because there are some very unnatractive people depicted naked there.
Fuck you, seriously. Not because you don't find the people on that site attractive (that's your own business), but because you decided this was the appropriate response. I didn't say HERE IS THE PORN YOU'RE ALLOWED TO VIEW, I said THIS IS WHAT SEX-POSITIVE PORN LOOKS LIKE. Yet you decided the correct response was to come in and say "woah, these ugly fucks??? Naaahhhh I'm gonna stick to MY porn. Don't mind me, everyone, I'm just going to pass judgement on an entire site of people and then tell you my boner isn't a fan. See ya." What a bad response, in a discussion about feminism no less. Sorry that those people don't live up to your personal standard of beauty. They don't have to. Nobody gives a shit what you personally find attractive, and this is not the time or place to share that.
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i don't think anyone could've more succinctly missed the whole point of the website
hey: sexuality is for everyone, hth
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hth
here;s to hats??
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HOPE THIS HELPL;DS
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hump this haberdasher
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testin somethign
e: it works cool
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bladder_x
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piss out the posts with bladder_x
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Fuck you, seriously. Not because you don't find the people on that site attractive (that's your own business), but because you decided this was the appropriate response. I didn't say HERE IS THE PORN YOU'RE ALLOWED TO VIEW, I said THIS IS WHAT SEX-POSITIVE PORN LOOKS LIKE. Yet you decided the correct response was to come in and say "woah, these ugly fucks??? Naaahhhh I'm gonna stick to MY porn. Don't mind me, everyone, I'm just going to pass judgement on an entire site of people and then tell you my boner isn't a fan. See ya." What a bad response, in a discussion about feminism no less. Sorry that those people don't live up to your personal standard of beauty. They don't have to. Nobody gives a shit what you personally find attractive, and this is not the time or place to share that.
I wrote like 3 bad responses to this but I'll boil them down to this. It was a dumb joke, I'm sorry, don't think too much into what I said and ignore it.
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That sex is not the enemy tumblr kinda reminds me of women smiling with salad.
NO NOT THAT SALAD.
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Sometimes I look at my calves and I get the urge to cut one off, cook it and eat it.
They look tasty as hell.
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Clarification on my censorship beliefs: Banning/suspending/warning someone for intentionally being a dick is fine. (Mince/inri) Which is technically different than what I'm referring to as censorship.
Outside of that that are a few more intricacies to my beliefs on censorship. But nothing necessarily worth bringing up.
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what's that jrpg in mellytan's sig
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Sometimes I look at my calves and I get the urge to cut one off, cook it and eat it.
They look tasty as hell.
you are not alone, friend
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Someone recommend me a good sci fi novel? Just finished the novel adaptation of 2001 a space oddysse.
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It depends ed, do you like SPICES at all?!
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Chanur Saga m-effer.
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Chanur Saga m-effer?
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A good sci fi series m-effer
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I tried to read Dune twice and couldn't get past the gom jabbar scene. I was like this with lotr and the shire. There's attention span then there's just the will to go on.
I'm looking for something that will give me cyberpunk dreams.
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Neuromancer? lol that's the only cyberpunk book I've read that I can recommend. I've also read Rainbow's End but I was bored the fuck out of it.
In Sci-Fi in general I recommend Ender's Game of course. But a lot of people have already read that. Despite my affinity for Sci-Fi in general I haven't read to many Sci-Fi Books (something I plan on changing)
Wait, Fahrenheit 451 is technically Sci-Fi and is also good. Also the only 3 Sci-Fi Stephen King books I've read (and I think all he has) "Cell", "Under The Dome", and "Tommy Knockers" None of them are set in the future, just have sci-fi focus'ed story elements. Cell is the best of those in my opinion, but its zombie apocalypse so that's why I like it so much, Tommy Knockers is an alien invasion story, Under The Dome is at first only vaguely sci-fi until more is revealed, its about a giant force field dome that mysteriously appears and traps an entire town.
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Someone recommend me a good sci fi novel? Just finished the novel adaptation of 2001 a space oddysse.
that's a big field, but i'll suggest hardboiled wonderland and the end of the world as well as virtual light
edit: if you're in to cyberpunk then those two are pretty dece bets. i'm not going to lie, we live in a cyberpunk dystopia irl, so you can also just watch the news
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I remember really digging Ender's Game when I read it. I actually think I liked the companion book "Ender's Shadow" better but I thought it was a cool book back in th eday. Take that suggestion with a grain of salt as I last read it when I was 11 or 12 and thought Stephen King was the pinnacle of English Literature.
Also, not a good book, but I read a Shadowrun novel tie-in called 2XS recently. It's like a hard-boiled Dashiell Hammet sort of dectective story that takes place in the near future where magic coexists with cyberpunk tropes. It has overblown action scenes that would do a late '80's Schwarzenegger movie proud and a plot twist so dumb you'll be mildy angry with the writer. It's one of those books that everything about it is pretty bad but it's a really entertaining and quick little read. I recommend it only if you are ok with reading a book equivalent to a bad 80's sci-fi flick.
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hardboiled wonderland and the end of the world
this is pretty much my favourite book so i am going straight for the other one you mentioned at top speed.
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this is pretty much my favourite book so i am going straight for the other one you mentioned at top speed.
it's william gibson, so there's some similarity, but they're not exact
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Eltee you scare me- get some hufu.
OMG a Doctor Who -Star Trek crossover! (http://www.idwpublishing.com/news/article/2224/)
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post moved
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OMG a Doctor Who -Star Trek crossover! (http://www.idwpublishing.com/news/article/2224/)
Not interested. (Still waiting for a Monk/Dexter crossover.)
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Not interested. (Still waiting for a Monk/Dexter crossover.)
Oh god, murderers would drop like flies.
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a doctor who/star trek crossover could never work, because star trek is for boring people.
It'll sell well, because most sci-fi fans ARE boring people.
But it'll never work well in a story sense because they are vastly different perspectives of reality. One based on fantasy and surreality, written well respected writers(apart from the odd one admitedly) and with ideas chiselled out of the granite that is post-war london.
and the other is a lame atempt at mixing the ideas of ancient greek warring states with the american west, false ears, and the colour grey.
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Not sure i Agree with you on the whole Greek reuse thing; but I admit it may be of limited interest to those who aren't a fan of both shows.s. Pokemon Conquest, however, is just weird enough i might give it a look. And Ugh dentist appointment Tuesday.
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I don't really watch either show. I've only seen bits of Star Trek: The Next Generation because a college roommate I had watched it. (he was far from being a boring individual, he was the best roommate I had in fact out of the 20 or so that I went through) And the recent Star Trek Movie I've also seen and thought was pretty good.
Doctor Who on the other hand, I've only seen 1 episode of the most recent series. The one with the weird 'fat' alien babies that popped out of fat people. I thought it was completely retarded, but I won't judge the entire series on one episode, I'll give it another chance at some point. (especially since you said they have the odd bad writer) But I've always kind of disliked elements of the story. Namely that "new doctor every couple of seasons" thing. That would drive me insane.
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doctor who is written as a load of short stories each made to be very different from the last. When it first started, the first episode was 60's london, which then went into a caveman story, and then into a science-fantasy epic and then into a short story about the characters stuck in the tardis going insane. Notable series producers had their own feel on the show, Robert Holmes brought in a more horror feel to it, neil adams made it camp, pointless and dumb, john nathan turner made it very 80's and excessively violent, Andrew Cartmel brought an amazing sense of depth, mystery and mythology to the show. In recent years, Russel T Davis (who was responsible for the episode you're on about) really dumbed down it's potential for subtext and introduced a high amount of camp and 'kiddyness' to it. I'm not a fan of the episodes he's written. Lately Stephen Moffatt has been introducing a mythology and mystery back into it and it's been much more enjoyable as an adult, though I fear he may end up alienating the children audience which would be a really dumb thing to do. When Doctor who is bad, it's absolutely abyssmal, but when it's good, it is amongst the best television ever made. No other mainstream tv series in the early 70's tackled ecological and political issues to the degree that doctor who did, which is thnakfully a result of having liberal intillectuals and marxists as the writers/script editors.
Also Star Trek was heavily based on greek history, the creators have aknowledged it many times. Greece was made up of various warring states, each made up of their own very different culture. Sparta was war like(klingons), The Athenians were cultural and intillectual etc(vulcans)
plus there was more than numerous references to greek mythology in the stories, characters and the fact that every planet they landed on seemed to have ancient greek/roman ruins on it for some bizarre reason.
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I've gotten really REALLY into buying vinyl lately, mostly weird and experimental music since that's my taste, so zappa, beefheart, magma, gong, hawkwind etc etc.
When people say the quality is better, they really aren't lying. It's warmer and has a noticable depth absent from digital copies, so I'm now having to balance between buying stuff on vinyl and on cd. And y'know, with around 500 albums already on cd, im not going to give up on getting them.
mp3s are only for listening to when out of the house, the sound is so compressed and flattened that listening to them through speakers is pointless. Anybody who only listens to mp3s is an idiot. I hate that I have to mix my music down to mp3 to share it. I mean with my rock stuff it's lo-fi anyways, but my electro is really harmed by it.
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One thing I've noticed about vinyl is that records originally recorded digitally sound kind of synthetic and poorly balanced. Considering the music you listed, I doubt you've had much of this problem, but I'd still suggest that if you get music originally recorded on digital equipment you go for the CD.
But otherwise vinyl collecting can be fun for the "Treasure Hunt" kind of experience that goes with it these days and stuff recorded on analog machines sounds amazing on vinyl.
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Well the recent star trek movie isn't based on the setting that the crossover takes place on. It seems like I could be interested in star trek in a general sense, but I never really got into watching either star-trek series. I reckon it was something that just existed outside of being exposed to the generation I belong to.
I did see wrath of khan recently, but all I got out of that movie was how much other TV shows love to drop a reference to that specific movie.
Dr Who on the other hand, I have seen a lot of the recent episodes that have come out. But I only watched those to confirm without a doubt how much I loathe that show on just about every conceivable level. Yeah, I have only seen that one guy portray the Doctor, but based on the very idea of who the doctor is, I am pretty sure I would hate that guy above all other guys regardless of whoever happens to play his part.
I reckon I do not disagree with the show on the basis of it being a fantasy series, so most of my loathing must stem from the concept of a show set up like that one being widely considered as something that qualifies to belong under the category of "science fiction". Basically it takes pretty much every single aspect of that particular genre that I personally love, and goes the exact opposite direction with it.
For instance, even if I operate under the assumption that the self preservation principle employed by the Angel species in that series has zero correlation with actual quantum physics, and the Doctor just calls the state "quantum lock" in order to give a familiar analog to explan the idea properly to dumb humans, I could still go on at an absurdly extensive length about now there is absolutely no aspect of that species that makes any practical sense whatsoever from a survival/evolutionary standpoint. The way I see it, the very concept of the Angels at it's every core, can serve as a perfect metaphor for the very nature of how I could never tolerate much less accept that show ever being considered a work of science fiction.
No Dr Who, you cannot use the basis of the main character having an inheritley higher level of intelligence than any conceivable member of the show's audience as a golden ticket that gives you free reign to have anything happen in any way possible. All you are doing by claiming it doesn't have to make sense to anyone else as long as it makes sense to him is only accomplishing is a setting where the entirety of human effort and development (that he 'loves' so much) are founded on nothing more but complete lies.
If you want a metaphor for that, its as if the Doctor personally equates anyone believing in any aspect of reality as anyone ever knew it, as the same as a child looking at a puppet and believing they are witnessing the actions of an actual person. Even if I was willing to accept that kind of grim, lovecraftian premise, it still means that every single motivation the Doctor has ever had for placing value on the human race itself is a blatant contradiction. From my perspective, it is literally impossible for that show to ever make sense regardless of how anyone can interpret it.
In short, I can never tolerate the concept Dr Who as science fiction, in the same way that Einstein could never tolerate the concept of Quantum law as science fact. (which is ironic, because I am actually a big fan of quantum law. If you are going to make a show just for the sole purpose of me personally hating it, then I appreciate you taking the trouble to shit all over the basic principles that allow that field to operate for the purpose of nothing more than to generate 'dramatic effect')
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Note on Star Trek: watch the series rather than the movies. The movies that have Kirk and Spock in it are mostly tolerable but the TNG movies (with Picard, etc.) are just abjectly horrible. Generations is seriously one of the worst movies ever. The TNG series might be a bit hard to get into because it just screams 80s throughout the first season in particular.
The recent Star Trek movie really isn't bad I think. It's just completely different from everything else made in name of the franchise so far. It's just an action movie, really. But it's miles better than the TNG movies, so I'm glad they got away from that disaster.
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i think one of my goals in life is to have david lynch hair or morrisey hair. but my hair isn't good for those.
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doctor who isnt sciene fiction for the main part, it's science fantasy. In the earlier days there was a much heavier sci-fi side to it, but especially recently, it's more about ideas and concepts than about making things scientific, because ultimately if you rely too much on established science, you'll lose the kid market who want to see their green aliens. Plus in a narrative aspect, the weeping angels stories work excellent, and the series creates no pretentions towards realism. It's the adventure and the excitement, the knowing that there is always something more. Like when you read a Jack Kirby comic and it's all just cosmic and totally above us, to humans the characters seem like gods, and their battles are amongst our comprehension.
Though judging a 50 year TV series on the past couple of years is pretty dumb.
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Squee! My music's gonna be used in a game! Not just one track, but a whole soundtrack, if the guy likes what he hears!
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Anyone here know of a site that tracks libraries that are throwing out books?
I want to go dumpster diving.
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Squee! My music's gonna be used in a game! Not just one track, but a whole soundtrack, if the guy likes what he hears!
Congrats. I've been wanting to do some indie game soundtracks for a while as I'm a music composition student and think it would be good practice, but I have no idea how to go about getting work like that. Places like TIGsource and RPGmaker.net are just crawling with composers and I don't really know how to stick out. Do you have any advice, Terrorantula?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flRBrwQjlE
Mozart of our times
Rnb Prophet
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flRBrwQjlE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flRBrwQjlE)
Mozart of our times
Rnb Prophet
that kid owns so hard
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Thinking about Poe's Law. I don't know why, just am.
Also, had a discussion with my mom about some people on her Facebook that bother's her. She says that it just seems like her liberal friends are more prone to outright insulting people directly in an argument and I rolled my eyes but had no response really because I don't go on Facebook enough to notice (nor share many of her liberal friends on it)
She also said the only people who are truly racist are people who say they are racist and proud of it. Hmmm... I know I'm not supposed to discuss this sort of thing with my parents but they provoke responses. (this was after a long discussion though after the Facebook complaint that derailed into a different discussion, so she didn't just jump onto that.)
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She also said the only people who are truly racist are people who say they are racist and proud of it.
lolllllllllllllll this is so untrue that it hurts.
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I got some studio monitors from 1995 at Goodwill lol expect some epic tunes in the future
it's not really that different but it sounds like noisier in an appropriate way/breakcore shit sounds like you're listening to an explosion like I would assume would be the right sound
I was looking up Dragon Warrior III for Game Boy Color (the second bonus dungeon seems so pointless and awful) and it came out in 2001 wtf. I thought I had some internal timeline, like stuff that came before and after the Matrix sequels (and post 9-11 world obviously)
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I got some studio monitors from 1995 at Goodwill lol expect some epic tunes in the future
Studio monitors from 1995? Showww.
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http://www.mzentertainment.com/studio_audiotechnica_mms557.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvtssL8WlJA&feature=player_embedded
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Congrats. I've been wanting to do some indie game soundtracks for a while as I'm a music composition student and think it would be good practice, but I have no idea how to go about getting work like that. Places like TIGsource and RPGmaker.net are just crawling with composers and I don't really know how to stick out. Do you have any advice, Terrorantula?
Keep an eye on the forums especially RMN; people will often put out a request for music or a soundtrack; that's what happened in my case; the music the person's getting wasn't, in general, specifically composed for the person, just stuff I have around, which makes it a little different. However, the advice I can give is to keep composing and share your works; not only in the creative forums here and on RMN, but perhaps on places like Newgrounds and Tindeck. Once people hear what you're capable of it should stir their interest. Also keep an eye out for indie studios you could contact offering to help.
. . .
I just learned a relative of mine died on Sunday. I'm going to miss her. . .
I just contacted my dentist to reschedule the appointment i had for tomorrow,, as i want to go to the funeral, but had to leave a message as the office was closed.
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lolllllllllllllll this is so untrue that it hurts.
To be fair, I don't think she really meant it in the most literal sense. Thinking back on it I have this vague idea that she meant that only those completely unashamed of their racist nature are truly deplorable. But that isn't exactly what she said, so its up to interpretation. Nonetheless I widened my eyes a bit when I heard her say it.
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at this point i'm not even surprised at the level of nervous excitement i feel for the seemingly inevitable collapse of the eurozone and the ensuing financial contagion. i feel like i've been observing disasters on the internet for so long that it's more disturbing if there hasn't been one for a while
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What, you think they are like earthquakes? They are worse the longer the gap of time between them?
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for velfurry:
http://youtu.be/IVjfa0Alz5o
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for velfurry:
http://youtu.be/IVjfa0Alz5o
I Sang the original theme song in 1998 and thought this would be a great update on a classic.
holy shit lollllll
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gotta catch em all
ro-on paul!
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What, you think they are like earthquakes? They are worse the longer the gap of time between them?
both natural and financial disasters shatter the illusion created by global capital, returning us to a reality that is lost behind the simulation of western life. we can only experience the real as disaster, and this becomes addictive, as reality offers a greater intensity of sensation than a 'reality' mediated by symbols and signs
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Just got back after the funeral and a lot of detours. I'm definitely going to miss her. My Grandpa's also likely being admitted to the hospital.
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that blows hard Terrorantula. :^( bonzi buddy offers a welcoming/conforting, friendly purple orangutan hug, Get Well Soon...
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Really sorry Terrorantula, you have my warmest sympathies for your loss.
Chin up, I hope your grandfather will be ok.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flRBrwQjlE
Mozart of our times
Rnb Prophet
aaron funk looks on in astonishment
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hi somebody please listen to my kj inspired beat
http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83256.msg1627434#msg1627434 (http://tindeck.com/listen/iefx)
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ended up making a lot of tracks so here's an EP:
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/the-most-beats-ep
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Good news- my gramps is doing better
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good to hear terrorantula. my grandparents finally moved into an assisted care home today, after my gmom was released from the hospital. I was pushing for it for while, but my dad was hesitant because of all the horror stories you hear about homes. my gmom has alzheimers and she started running away from home on a daily basis a couple months ago. eventually she got hit by a car (hit and run), but the neighbor saw it and drove her to the hospital. she's wasn't seriously injured thankfully, and has physically recovered. I don't really know why I'm posting this, but I've been imagining myself in that situation and it's the most frightening thing ever.
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Sounds like it. I'm gonna go back to sleep now for a bit- I have an appointment for a crown later .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfwtco33NH8
trousers
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I was listening to "Slick Watts" by the Blue Scholars and noticed that he listed off the roster of what sounds like former players on the Seattle Supersonics and noticed "Jack Sikma" around 2:30. Isn't he kind of vaguely related to you, Dada? I thought it was kind of amusing if anything.
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Jack Sikma is distant family of mine. (All Sikmas are related to one another, it's a very specific last name. My dad did a good amount of research on it.) I've never met him and probably never will, but it's interesting to know he used to be the star player of the Supersonics. And also hall of fame inductee! Right now the Supersonics don't even exist anymore, though.
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I was rather shocked to see Noel and Lightning modeling for Prada, but I love it! (https://member.eu.square-enix.com/en/blogs/final-fantasy-characters-showcase-prada-2012-mens-springsummer-collection)
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I was rather shocked to see Noel and Lightning modeling for Prada, but I love it! (https://member.eu.square-enix.com/en/blogs/final-fantasy-characters-showcase-prada-2012-mens-springsummer-collection)
waaaargh. holotupac and then this. software is bleeding into reality again. seal the portal!! related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE
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why didn't they have squall model all the leather jackets in the world
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waaaargh. holotupac and then this. software is bleeding into reality again. seal the portal!! related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE
gonna point ppl to this whenever they talk about overpopulation or dwindling resources
destroyed hundreds of cultures and languages, killed, enslaved, and ruined the lives of a hundred billion people over the course of history, just to make some toys for algorithms to play with
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humans only get in the way of infinite growth. destroy all humans, GDP per capita massive increase. it's pretty terrifying.
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Shit, wouldn't all of this be rendered pointless if we just started focusing on getting instantaneous communication (if possible)?
Like, I want my 0ms connection to china/mars.
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http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla
The only thing I disagree with is the title, Nikola Tesla wasn't the greatest GEEK that ever lived. HE WAS THE GREATEST PERSON TO EVER LIVE.
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Well the only way the greatest person who ever lived to not also the greatest geek that ever lived would be if the greatest person who ever lived was himself not a geek. Since by virtue of being the greatest person who ever lived, qualifies him to be a greater geek than any other geek that has ever lived.
So are you implying that Nikola Tesla was not a geek? Or just implying that stating that he is the greatest geek who ever lived undermines the all-too-true factual statement that Nikola Tesla is the greatest person who ever lived. Even if the fact that he is the greatest geek who ever lived is also an entirely true statement?
The question I pose might seem trivial yes, but I do believe the article itself means to claim that not only that the greatest person who ever lived just so happens to be a geek, but that it is also pragmatically impossible for the greatest person who has ever lived to not be a geek.
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I recently consumed to much sugar to concentrate enough to answer you competently. Currently have a headache.
I'll risk it anyway:
My answer is that he is the greatest person to ever live because he DEDICATED HIMSELF COMPLETELY to advancing the human race to awesomeness. People talk about the burning of library of Alexandria that set us back so far in technology and innovation, I think Edison fucking Tesla over is the equivalent. The library of Alexandria was produced by many scholars. Tesla is but 1 man. He is practically a super hero that was tragically bested by a super villain, Edison and the general foolishness of the human race.
The rest of your post is semantics so I can't focus on that too well in my current state. but I'm definitely not suggesting Tesla was NOT a geek. I do think it arguably possible to not be a geek and be the greatest person. But its not very likely.
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So I heard that Tesla was a proponent of eugenics.
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An area of science he poorly understood. I agree he probably never should have even had a view on that since that wasn't his focus. Then again, most experts of the era he lived in may very well have been pro eugenics. I doubt it was all that uncommon. in fact I'm pretty sure it only started being really looked down upon after World War 2.
It also doesn't seem like he really pushed this idea anyway, it almost just seemed like a random thing that he thought. Hell the dude was celibate his entire life. (mentioned in my linked article/comic thing) So it not like he thought his genes were inherently superior. Or if he did, it would seem odd that he put no effort into passing his genes on to the next generation.
Biology/genetics wasn't, in general, very well understood area of study then, and this is a pretty small blemish on his otherwise awesome nature.
Also, IDK for sure but I'd assume he probably started talking about that when he was starting to lose it later in life.
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Well I did find your response interesting, but I do not want to press the matter while you are in a less than 100% capable of concentrating state of mind.
In that by saying Nikola Tesla is both a geek and the greatest person who ever lived, but also saying that it is possible for the greatest person who ever lived to not be a geek, (albeit not very likely) so is this in the hypothetical situation where Nikola Tesla is not a person who has ever existed? Or is it the situation where a person who does not exist yet turns out to be the only person greater than Nikola Tesla without also being a geek? (as for me, in either case I would consider both the second greatest person who has ever lived to be a geek, and the only person capable of being greater than Nikola Tesla also having to be a huge geek)
This discussion is making me want to come up with a spoof of those "Most Interesting Man in the World" commercials, but making them about Nikola Tesla instead.
"I do not always drink beer. Actually, I have never drunk beer. But if I did, it would be to find out what I would do in the case in which I drink beer, so I could write down an account of what happens. That way, I could tell you about that experience at a date prior to that one time that I decided to drink beer."
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*I'M getting a headache from the above bit*
*just set up mu computer in my room instead of my office so I could have privacy when watching porn; unfortunately the walls seem to slow down the wireless some so I may need to move things around.
And now I want to go driink some beer.*
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http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla
The only thing I disagree with is the title, Nikola Tesla wasn't the greatest GEEK that ever lived. HE WAS THE GREATEST PERSON TO EVER LIVE.
weird, I was recently thinking about why tesla isn't in the public conciousness
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I'm on morphine and it's fantastic. This is the first day in two weeks that I haven't been moaning and writhing in pain from early morning till midday.
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geez, why were you writhing in pain during the earlier part of the day for two weeks? actually probably none of my beeswax, just thinking of what I know that stuff's used for in medicine over here
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it has kinda been your own fault though, you should never have made that cardigan out of rusty nails.
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hell yeah, high-life dada/rock'n'roll dada. yeah u bettah scoopa whya u r inna paina... grunt...
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geez, why were you writhing in pain during the earlier part of the day for two weeks? actually probably none of my beeswax, just thinking of what I know that stuff's used for in medicine over here
I haven't talked about it a lot on here but what started out as an apparent case of the flu turned out to be Guillain-Barré, which is a nerve infection. And it took a while for that diagnosis to be made. So for a while I was maxed out on paracetamol and ibuprofen (standard off-the-shelve pain killers). But they barely take the edge off when you have major, constant muscle pain. Usually around midday the pain would subside enough to allow me to do stuff.
Ultimately I went to my doctor and did a few more tests which led to a referral to a neurologist (failed the finger-to-nose test and couldn't keep my balance while walking). Yesterday I did a rather painful test that involved electric shocks, leading to the tentative (unconfirmed, but all signs point to it) conclusion that I have this disease. So now I'm on two different kinds of pain killers and finally I feel good again for the first time in quite a while.
The symptoms should eventually disappear by themselves, and I probably won't need to be hospitalized. So I got lucky in that regard. There might be some lasting damage, although they think it's unlikely.
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aaaa shiiit!!! i'm reading about it now, a molecular mimicry autoimmune disease on nerves to put it crudely. why didn't ya tell me earlier?!? GROANNN!!!!! GGRRUNNTT!! sweeps computer off the table, slams dumb topic into wall, throws horrified ragnar to the ground, dicko gulps *loudly* and tries to restrain bonzi but alas!! dicko's fishing lines aren't enough to restrain the enraged orangutan!! earl leaps onto bonzi while the ape is hanging dicko by leg and banging dicko's delicate indie-bangs into the ground repeatedly + dicko is shrieking like a girl constantly, earl swears under his breath of his lack of practise in Tumbling, a profiency in two weapon fighting sure would come handy now by cormyr etc
hopefully u won't roll a bad dice dada... and i would imagine that even if you get more major nerve damage, you could start taking some amino acids and supplements for nerve regeneration. though i'd probably search the 'net first and ask all kinds of neurologists & neuro-naturopaths first about their opinions/knowledge on those. i've seen some recs (specifically for nerve damage) in the net before though so that information definitely exists.
also take painkillers after eating and with lot of water. that stuff is fucking nasty to your inner organs. you can't adminstrate cortisol to this nerve infection? (though yeah that stuff is nasty too if you aren't careful but still)
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I haven't talked about it a lot on here but what started out as an apparent case of the flu turned out to be Guillain-Barré, which is a nerve infection. And it took a while for that diagnosis to be made. So for a while I was maxed out on paracetamol and ibuprofen (standard off-the-shelve pain killers). But they barely take the edge off when you have major, constant muscle pain. Usually around midday the pain would subside enough to allow me to do stuff.
Ultimately I went to my doctor and did a few more tests which led to a referral to a neurologist (failed the finger-to-nose test and couldn't keep my balance while walking). Yesterday I did a rather painful test that involved electric shocks, leading to the tentative (unconfirmed, but all signs point to it) conclusion that I have this disease. So now I'm on two different kinds of pain killers and finally I feel good again for the first time in quite a while.
The symptoms should eventually disappear by themselves, and I probably won't need to be hospitalized. So I got lucky in that regard. There might be some lasting damage, although they think it's unlikely.
fucking shit
i've noticed that you had been complaining about general illness almost continuously for the last couple weeks, your mentioning it often enough that i started to worry it was something more along the lines of a condition. i really dislike being right all the goddamn time. i don't want to throw any negative energy your way at the moment by possibly unnecessary worrying, so i'll just say that it sounds like a truly excellent sign that they probably aren't going to need to hospitalize you, and didn't feel the need to do so immediately. this condition sounds scary when you first read about it, but from what i'm able to gather they more use the term to cover a pretty wide range of similar conditions that range rather wildly in severity. i'm pulling for you, buddy :)
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You're a strong willed dude, and you can deal with this shit. If you can deal with inri, you can deal with any pains!
it's really bad when you get put on real painkillers, when I had muscle damage after and during Pleurisy last year, it hurt to breathe (collapsed on way to work, spent days lying in bed, felt like i was gunna die every time I laughed (which is a shame as I love comedy)) and was put on painkillers, but stuff like temazipam and tramadol have little effect on me, though I still take the later daily.
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Agh it seems like everyone here has gone/is going through some sort of terrible medical problem.
The scariest medical problem I've ever had is just a tie between having a really bad case of the flu for 2 weeks (lots of vomiting and weight loss) and 2 minor facial epileptic seizures that I was conscious for and found more annoying than scary at the time (I was a dumb kid, didn't realize what was going on)
I've pretty god damn lucky I guess. It seems like my medical conditions pale in comparison to everyone else.
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aaaa shiiit!!! i'm reading about it now, a molecular mimicry autoimmune disease on nerves to put it crudely. why didn't ya tell me earlier?!? GROANNN!!!!! GGRRUNNTT!! sweeps computer off the table, slams dumb topic into wall, throws horrified ragnar to the ground, dicko gulps *loudly* and tries to restrain bonzi but alas!! dicko's fishing lines aren't enough to restrain the enraged orangutan!! earl leaps onto bonzi while the ape is hanging dicko by leg and banging dicko's delicate indie-bangs into the ground repeatedly + dicko is shrieking like a girl constantly, earl swears under his breath of his lack of practise in Tumbling, a profiency in two weapon fighting sure would come handy now by cormyr etc
your posts always make me feel better with no exception.
there's a POSSIBILITY of nerve damage but it's deemed unlikely in my case. yeah, it's fortunately pretty mild in my case. some people end up in the ICU, it can even be deadly in rare cases. The disease itself is pretty rare, about 1 in 100,000 in the Netherlands.
most people end up recovering completely without lasting damage, so hopefully in a month or so I'll be completely back to normal. For now I can at least function, thanks to these painkillers (tramadol and lyrica/pregabaline). It's still hard to type because my fingers feel half numb. Tomorrow I'm gonna try to start working again.
i don't want to throw any negative energy your way at the moment by possibly unnecessary worrying, so i'll just say that it sounds like a truly excellent sign that they probably aren't going to need to hospitalize you, and didn't feel the need to do so immediately.
haha, well, don't worry about it. apparently I'm pretty good at not worrying about myself. and yeah, I will need to be hospitalized and given medicine by IV if it gets worse, but it doesn't seem like it's getting worse at the moment. I just need to keep my hands and feet in check to make sure the numbness/paralysis doesn't get worse.
this whole ordeal has been pretty awful, and the confirmation test was practically torture, but it's nice to finally be able to see a horizon and know it's going to get better. thanks to all of you for rooting for me.
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it's really bad when you get put on real painkillers, when I had muscle damage after and during Pleurisy last year, it hurt to breathe (collapsed on way to work, spent days lying in bed, felt like i was gunna die every time I laughed (which is a shame as I love comedy)) and was put on painkillers, but stuff like temazipam and tramadol have little effect on me, though I still take the later daily.
this is the second day I'm taking tramadol (75mg) and all I wanted to do for a while was lie on the couch and enjoy vivid daydreams. thankfully I don't seem to be having any side effects, except for being extremely tranquil.
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this is the second day I'm taking tramadol (75mg) and all I wanted to do for a while was lie on the couch and enjoy vivid daydreams. thankfully I don't seem to be having any side effects, except for being extremely tranquil.
Dada feel better and here is a song for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpzxf_flm8M
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Glad to hear its gotten better Dada and that you situation isn't worry-some.
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Glad to hear its gotten better Dada and that you situation isn't worry-some.
It is! There's a chance that things can get worse or that I'll have lasting nerve damage. But I try not to worry about things I can't affect.
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Well, I mean glad that its unlikely to get bad.
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Outside of that:
Recently I've been going through all the random old books around my families house and posting them up online for sale (amazon) but I recently ran into one that is first in a series and doesn't have a posting, but it's sequel does and its going for 40-45 dollars used with only 2 listings. However looking it up there doesn't seem to be any virtual copies anywhere which makes me question the ethics of selling it to someone that wont make a virtual copy but I'm in this to make money so I can't SPEND any just to make sure this book doesn't 'disappear' into the ages.
Anybody know where I can send it in to be saved virtually? is there nothing that can be done? Am I worrying for nothing and should just sell it?
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Dada that sounds really unfun, glad the painkillers worked and get well soon.
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argh shaould i attempt to register for a 4-week intensive web design course that starts tomorrow? I was realy fired up butnow i'm not sure thouth it's peobably becuse It's late.
Edit* A last-minute attempt to register for a condensed course that's likely available as a fukll course isn't wise.
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JAPANESE SCHOOLGIRLS ON MONSTER ISLAND! (http://soundcloud.com/abeinspace/japanese-schoolgirls-on)
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Beat Black Ops Single Player. It started out kind of slow, seemingly just going through the 'action game' motions but in the later half it started getting really good both story AND gameplay-wise.
Starting up MW3's SP.
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Japanese Schoolgirls Run! Tentacle Devilman Stalks! (http://soundcloud.com/abeinspace/japanese-schoolgirls-run)
(sequel to previous post)
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whoops just realized I put my last post in the wrong topic.
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Just watched Evangelion 1.11 and 2.22 and looking back on the TV anime but Kaworu Nagisa was never explained or maybe I missed it why is he in space and why dose he refer to Shinji's dad as father he's like an enigma (maybe I missed something since I never saw death and rebirth ) all I saw was the crappy end of the TV anime.
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In our Ofsted visit, I was observed and got an OUTSTANDING!!!!
GO ME! HOORAY!
(A scraped outstanding, true, but even so :D​!!!!!)
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okay so things got worse and instead of being able to sit it out back home, I had to be hospitalized and hooked up to an IV immunoglobulin. then when I was drying myself off after a shower I fell down and could barely make it out by crawling to the sink and pulling myself up with all my might. my legs in particular barely have any strength left. seems that I'm alright, though. I'm too tired to explain the rest but it looks like I'll be here for probably 5 days.
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okay so things got worse and instead of being able to sit it out back home, I had to be hospitalized and hooked up to an IV immunoglobulin. then when I was drying myself off after a shower I fell down and could barely make it out by crawling to the sink and pulling myself up with all my might. my legs in particular barely have any strength left. seems that I'm alright, though. I'm too tired to explain the rest but it looks like I'll be here for probably 5 days.
aaaaa i thought i told you to STOP doing these things not do these things more!!! gosh you never listen!!!
get better dude imo ! ! !
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okay so things got worse and instead of being able to sit it out back home, I had to be hospitalized and hooked up to an IV immunoglobulin. then when I was drying myself off after a shower I fell down and could barely make it out by crawling to the sink and pulling myself up with all my might. my legs in particular barely have any strength left. seems that I'm alright, though. I'm too tired to explain the rest but it looks like I'll be here for probably 5 days.
Dada wow get better and no more falling remember angles can't fall
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/DDayDark/EVa.png)
Ok. Ok. they can, but look this one has a spear in it so just stay away from spears and maybe the olympics.
But for real get better soon.
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Holy shit that sucks. GET BETTER DADA. Take it easy.
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okay so things got worse and instead of being able to sit it out back home, I had to be hospitalized and hooked up to an IV immunoglobulin. then when I was drying myself off after a shower I fell down and could barely make it out by crawling to the sink and pulling myself up with all my might. my legs in particular barely have any strength left. seems that I'm alright, though. I'm too tired to explain the rest but it looks like I'll be here for probably 5 days.
What the fuck, what's going on?
Hope you're ok man, is this a mystery virus?!
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http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83147.msg1627529#msg1627529
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Whoa shit, get well soon buddy.
Also: keep taking the tramadol. They were my favourite thing for the longest time!!!
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Again, get better Dada! :(
Unrelated:
Anybody else think the word "promiscuous" is to long winded of a word for the relevant (non-intellectual) conversations it would supposedly take place in?
EDIT: There needs to be a better word that isn't also considered an insult. Any suggestions?
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i hope you're feeling better very soon dada
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this is not what i was expecting to walk in on :/ best wishes, dada
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Ragnar: yahoo yippeee
Ragnar: stars come out of his butt
also VIDIOT GAME is mentioned in this article, inform all GZ's/konix's. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/170243/When_digital_dies_where_does_that_leave_game_preservation.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/170243/When_digital_dies_where_does_that_leave_game_preservation.php)
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(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/301751_10150864878705966_120398390965_9471279_379660242_n.jpg)
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(http://guana.deductivereasonable.com/pokey.jpg)
ahahah today I got a nice surprise, bunch of old pokey comics in print form. I completely forgot that I ordered this, just arrived in the mail. As a bonus gift I also got popsicle sticks, rubber bands and paper clips
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still at the neurology department of the hospital. a woman outside my room is crying. damn it.
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I imagine that's depressing. :( How goes your disease? Getting better maybe?
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have they fed you enough pannenkoeken? are you okay??? do you need me to mail you some???
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good luck. and yeah neurology is the worst
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Yo dada, the woman crying is unrelated right, rather than her crying FOR YOU or some shit?
What's their ETA with fixing this shit?
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Yo dada, the woman crying is unrelated right, rather than her crying FOR YOU or some shit?
oh god I didn't even think of that. :(
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I hope you get better that doesn't sound fun at all
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I'm doing a lot better now, the treatment is working. my walking is getting better and I don't have a lot of pain anymore. Today's probably the last day I need to get medicine via IV, and tomorrow I might even get to go home. I'll still probably need physiotherapy, and I'll need to be on painkillers for some time.
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there are lots of random idiots like this guy on the internet so normally they're not worth linking to, but this guy is particularly funny to me for some reason https://twitter.com/#!/geotie2323
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I'm doing a lot better now, the treatment is working. my walking is getting better and I don't have a lot of pain anymore. Today's probably the last day I need to get medicine via IV, and tomorrow I might even get to go home. I'll still probably need physiotherapy, and I'll need to be on painkillers for some time.
!!!
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That's awesome Dada! :)
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kil; the pain dada destroy it
what's that jrpg in mellytan's sig
silva saga ii (http://retrojrpg.thefannish.org/?p=1125)
not actually related to saGa but incidentally if you like that sort of thing (kawazuesque games) its a good experience.
100 posts in 5 years yeayeah not including +4+ years creeping gw yea!!!
[/shadow][/glow]
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clap clap clap clap clap!!!!! bravo!!!!! bravo!!!!!
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Just got my new avatar up. kind of crappy so I need to fix. or not don't really know how to make it look better without doing something extensive.
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animated anime
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/9dD3D.jpeg)
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animated anime
And
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And
blood
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Fuck there is a Yellow Jacket somewhere in the same room as my computer. I hate stinging insects.
They are among the few things that can make be scream like a little girl. Like shit, I could have a spider crawling on my arm and I would calmly flick the thing off, bee in the room I generally run flipping the fuck out.
It seems to have disappeared but I have not killed it. I don't know if this makes me feel better or worse. Leaning to worse.
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I was bored today and opened up my Xbox 360 wireless controller receiver for PC. It was broken and I had no hope of fixing the damn thing anyway and was curious as to what was inside it. To be honest though I still don't know because I know little about the actual hardware of stuff like this. But as far as I could tell there was seemingly nothing wrong with it so I honestly can only guess what at what the problem was. Maybe the USB cable was damaged... but that doesn't seem likely either since there is no outside visible damage nor does it seem like its ever be stressed in any way.
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when I woke up the first thing I saw was a video of the max headroom show, which I did not know existed, but I recognized the guy from Honey I Shrunk the Kids. it seemed like an impossible show to have ever existed/impossible for me to have never heard about it before. it was a pretty surreal experience, the first time I was ever legitimately unsure if I was awake or still sleeping without any influence of drugs or hangover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQa4bia1p50 maybe it's well-known on the internet. seems like the only use for the show would be to have it constantly streaming in the background 24hrs/day of matt frewer saying things that enter your brain but are not processed or understood
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that's exactly how zjemptv talks
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Why did I watch most of that?
Also, sunburns suck.
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http://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/green-metallic-circle-monkey
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whoa I just had the most realistic (I mean realistic like detailed) dream about Final Fantasy IV and it was some weird remake where they asked you bizarre questions like the beginning of Ogre Battle I guess (can't remember the exact questions) for cash and there was like Amano-esque art in-game as a prize I guess but it was extremely disappointing in a way I can't describe, like maybe it was the same dramatic angles as Amano but everyone had stupid anime faces. Then the dream morphed into something where I was apparently playing the horny guy from How I Met Your Mother in this bizarre Metroidvania igloo club where I was trying to double triple jump in just the right way to get up this slope and make it to the hot chicks room I guess, but I slipped down at the last moment. But I caught a glimpse of like the ceiling of the hot chicks room and and it was like something ineffable like what heaven/god looks like. Neil Patrick Harris looks disappointed at almost making it to heaven which turns out to be a hot chicks room even though he's gay in real life, but falls back down to earth like some Mario/Icarus hybrid
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Yesterday and 2:45 am today I watched Berserk 1-25 my god why did I missed this sad it leaves you on a cliff hanger near the end.
Well let me explain the first episode shows one of the main protagonist in present day and his name is Guts but that is unbenounced to you till episode 2 for now it's the black swordsman. and the ruler of this land is Griffith a once beloved friend of guts. The anime goes though his back story
I'm sure Vellfire would have some hate for this show since there is about 3 near rape and 1 sort of rape (all near the last few episodes) But on plus side guess the female secondary protagonist seems to be strong for the most part.
It's story about dreams, hope, love and revenge
I should check out the manga.
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Tonight I am going on a 13-15 hour road trip to Atlanta to watch/film my friend compete in the Red Bull EmSee NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP (http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/Red-Bull-EmSee-2012/001243026516667) that was supposed to happen way back in December. I'll be in a car with four other people and I can't imagine it will be a very comfortable journey but it will still be LOADS OF FUN and if you guys are interested I will let you know what happens.
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So I'm on vacation with my mom, visiting my grandma and brother. I've been having asthma problems for a week or two, and finally it got so bad we came to the ER so I could get some steroids or something because it was getting unbearable.
Well I end up getting admitted to the hospital with sepsis, ow I'm staying overnight because it's bad enough I can't leave. Fucking sepsis. I hope I can leave tomorrow. This sucks. I got some wicked steroids in an IV and two different antibiotics. I feel better, for sure, already. This is also a crazy small town, so the hospital is really nice and also really empty.
Seriously I can't even describe how nice it was to have my mom here. I mean I'm an adult but, having my mom here helped, I'd be scared shitless if I was back home in Vegas, alone. She went back to the hotel to sleep and I'm just sit here getting breathing treatments every 4 hours...
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that sounds like shit, yeah lucky that you had your mother with you. Get Well Soon!!!!
whoa I just had the most realistic (I mean realistic like detailed) dream about Final Fantasy IV and it was some weird remake where they asked you bizarre questions like the beginning of Ogre Battle I guess (can't remember the exact questions) for cash and there was like Amano-esque art in-game as a prize I guess but it was extremely disappointing in a way I can't describe, like maybe it was the same dramatic angles as Amano but everyone had stupid anime faces. Then the dream morphed into something where I was apparently playing the horny guy from How I Met Your Mother in this bizarre Metroidvania igloo club where I was trying to double triple jump in just the right way to get up this slope and make it to the hot chicks room I guess, but I slipped down at the last moment. But I caught a glimpse of like the ceiling of the hot chicks room and and it was like something ineffable like what heaven/god looks like. Neil Patrick Harris looks disappointed at almost making it to heaven which turns out to be a hot chicks room even though he's gay in real life, but falls back down to earth like some Mario/Icarus hybrid
yessssssssss game dreams ruuuuuuuuuules
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http://isleofeverywhere.blogspot.co.uk/
(http://isleofeverywhere.blogspot.co.uk/)
I've recently started a blog, reviewing albums/singles in my ever increasing music collection, from spacerock to prog, electronica to pop blah blah. I just lie on my bed and listen to it all the way through trying with fresh ears (though in cases such as Hawkwind, Acid Mothers Temple or Zappa, that'd be kinda difficult conscidering how obsessed I am) and then writing it up while listening again. Stuff I was initially dismissive of (such as Yes) I am finding quite enjoyable in that context, and stuff I was more accepting of, sometimes falls flat. Would be cool if you'd wanna give it a visit people.
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So I'm on vacation with my mom, visiting my grandma and brother. I've been having asthma problems for a week or two, and finally it got so bad we came to the ER so I could get some steroids or something because it was getting unbearable.
Well I end up getting admitted to the hospital with sepsis, ow I'm staying overnight because it's bad enough I can't leave. Fucking sepsis. I hope I can leave tomorrow. This sucks. I got some wicked steroids in an IV and two different antibiotics. I feel better, for sure, already. This is also a crazy small town, so the hospital is really nice and also really empty.
aaa suddenly everybody's getting sick and being admitted to the hospital. hope they kick you out after one night!! get better soon dude.
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I know I remember reading your posts while this whole issue was starting and thinking the same thing. You get better as well, let us all get better! And I had to stay another, I really hope I can leave tomorrow. My oxygen levels kind of hover around 90/91-95/96, they're supposed to be above 98 for like, a normal person. I'm off the oxygen and have been getting a decreasing dose of steroids, so barring a catastrophe I'm confident I'll get out tomorrow with some Prednisone pills. This fucking IV in my arm is killing, and it's starting to feel a little depressing sitting here all alone, all day. There an incredibly old guy across from me, he's looking to be done with it pretty soon, poor guy. I can't even imagine what Amark was going through, I have a never ending level of respect for that man and his family.
Sigh... My poor mom too. We're 6 hours away from Vegas where we both live, we were supposed to go home today and she had to renta hotel for another night. Asthma fucking sucks.
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I'm getting out today thankfully. Feel much better. Not looking forward to the 100+ degree weather in Vegas though.
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You ever been that far south-west?
Personally I prefer 100 to 110 degree weather with 0-20% humidity to 80-90 degrees with 50-90% humidity that I have here in Indiana right now.
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anybody notice that that show Grimm uses Youtube Scary Zombie Facemorph technology
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You ever been that far south-west?
Personally I prefer 100 to 110 degree weather with 0-20% humidity to 80-90 degrees with 50-90% humidity that I have here in Indiana right now.
Well I live in Vegas so I'm used to it, and yes like you I'd rather have dry heat above 100 than humid heat above 90 (like central Cali where I grew up).
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About a year ago I was still going to college in Arizona and so I spent a lot of time there (4 years) and realized I preferred it.
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I got another part of my sleeve done. It was the girl I was talking about. Dude spent about a week drawng it out
It looks pretty sweet. He's gotta do about a 3 inch section around my elbow to bring it all together and finish some coloring and it'll be done. Ill post a pic of it if anyone wants to see it.
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anybody notice that that show Grimm uses Youtube Scary Zombie Facemorph technology
yea and they keep showing commercials for Columbia Bank wherein two animorphs describe their Youtube Furry Facemorph technology small business and how only columbia understands their need for loans in order to produce it for a show filming locally.
i suspect there is a connection *replaces pipe in mouth and puffs furiously*
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Woot! Aubrey De Grey!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnn2bcFcnU&list=UUasRrSh_m1uURhOtE5EIibQ&index=2&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnn2bcFcnU&list=UUasRrSh_m1uURhOtE5EIibQ&index=2&feature=plcp)
What do you guys think of the possibility for biological agelessness?
(edit: also, chances are you are going to want to skip to about 3-4 minutes of introduction if you have a short attention span)
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well, i'd become afforadble and avaible for the upper class (and you know tyrants world leaders etc) who obviously takes on that in the heartbeat when it becomes avaible so maybe not so enthuastically waiting for it??? enjoy your thousand year old high elven (ear shaping is all the rave in 2040) aristocrats living high in skyscrapes in Atlanta, only travelling between the 'scrapers by bridges etc :^B FOUR THOUSAND YEARS (four thousand years, four thousand years, wailing) bob marley shakes head sadly
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Obviously, given enough time, most medical benefits eventually become cheap enough to produce for the middle and lower classes. I find it weird that that is what you bring up though. Most people think its a waste of time either because we "are meant to die" or that its just impossible to achieve.
I put it on par with trying to colonize space, developing a human level intellect in AI, attempting to find a effectively endless energy source, and instantaneous long distance communication/travel.
Even if all of those things seem completely improbable to acheive, I think we should put a significant amount of our resources into trying to achieving them.
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Music blogs with a niche market often build loyal audiences who come back frequently and spread the word with their friends Kaworu, so you're probably on to a good thing.
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speaking of music promotion I might get played on WEIRD TIME SIGNATURE RADIO in the future
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Since the start of this disease I've lost 10 kg/22 pounds. I now weigh 57 kg/125.
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Since the start of this disease I've lost 10 kg/22 pounds. I now weigh 57 kg/125.
Haven't been following. What disease?
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Guillain-Barré, although I'm doing better now. I explained in more detail a few pages back.
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Dude, you're almost as weightless as me now, although you're a lot taller so that's scary as shit.
Have they given you an ETA on when you'll be fully better?
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Not really. I'm doing pretty good now, still some minor problems and I don't fully have my strength back, and it might take a few months before I do because nerve cells take a long time to regenerate.
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Man good luck, hope it doesn't take too long. Do you get like WORKMAN'S COMP or whatever while you're ill? What are you doing for finances?
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I don't really receive anything, I'm living on savings. Actually right now I'm calling to get an old invoice paid by a foundation that is currently in the process of being liquidated. I've got a bunch of other invoices that I still need to send out. Won't have a problem for a while.
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so i just finished high school today
i bet you all feel really old now
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Indeed.
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so i just finished high school today
i bet you all feel really old now
I was 15 when I finished high school. So that's 9 years ago.
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Trying to give up soda again.
And take up Coffee drinking. (not equal to the amount I drank soda)
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Trying to give up soda again.
And take up Coffee drinking. (not equal to the amount I drank soda)
as long as ur not replacing the soda with a grande deluxe choco frappe extra whipped cream kind of coffee ur on the right track
i gave up soda in middleschool....now im 23 and can barely stomach more than a few gulps of coke, its become gross to me despite loving it when i was a kid. water, tea, and juice have been good to me these past 10 years.
also alcohol
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i gave up soda in middleschool....now im 23 and can barely stomach more than a few gulps of coke, its become gross to me despite loving it when i was a kid. water, tea, and juice have been good to me these past 10 years.
also alcohol
exactly this. literally the only difference is I'm a year older.
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Well, I should clarify, I make 1 exception, and only 1. I will drink cola when I go out for pizza (frozen pizzas don't count). Other than that, coffee.
Namely because I read (non sugary) coffee is actually kind of good for you. And unfortunately, I don't like tea.
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juice is the same as soda
eating pizza without soda or cheap beer is psycho nutcase
Namely because I read (non sugary) coffee is actually kind of good for you. And unfortunately, I don't like tea.
imo don't listen to any of this stuff. it's all quackery. coffee has documented adverse side effects, as do many things that people say are good for you. I mean you can give it a whirl, coffee is delicious, but don't live by it or anything
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i only drink diet soda/pop and i find it far superior to the regular stuff. but my drink of choice, my true love, is always and forever tea~~ <3
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if you don't drink tea you're a criminal. i don't care how you drink it, and there are lots of different methods of preparation and imbibement peculiar to different cultures, but i stand by the aforementioned sentiment.
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i only drink diet soda/pop and i find it far superior to the regular stuff. but my drink of choice, my true love, is always and forever tea~~ <3
I've also heard that the diet sodas are worse for you than the regular stuff. Sorry to say, especially if you honestly prefer it taste wise.
Also it really is a bummer that I think tea doesn't particularly taste great considering its supposed to be extremely good for you. But I'm not in the habit of consuming things on the sole purpose of it being good for me unless I'm sick or something.
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well warpped maybe you just haven't been drinking the right tea. don't let crappy-quality poorly-brewed bag tea influence your judgment of tea as a whole. maybe you just need to get some samples of really good loose-leaf tea and have yourself a little tea tasting. i think there's probably a tea out there for everyone. just give it time. you're still young. you'll find the right tea. she's out there somewhere.
and i'm pretty sure it's a myth that diet sodas are worse than regulars. i've done some research on that-- and of course, there's many conflicting sources, but it seems that the real scientific truth is that diet soda is basically just water and aspartame, and it would take a LOT of aspartame within a short amount of time to even begin to affect a human negatively. regular soda contains ridiculous amounts of sugar as well as a bunch of other crap; there's pretty much no way it could be better for you than diets are.
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it's over!!! summer, welcome the ape... ~ going bananas
also groan, i hope you mean by 'done some research' is that you went over to pubmed and read over the scientific articles about diet sodas & aspartame, fructose, livers role (hepatoxic damage to liver? cant remember) etc etc. pretty much all fake sugars are bad for you...save that one sugar but i can't remember it's name and even that i'd limit a lot.
and to my memory, aspartame leaves the body pr slowly so you are accumulating it regardless. drop that shit if possible. regular soda is much better than any light sodas and even that is shit to ur health.
and fwiw coffee and caffeine is fucking nasty to your adrenal gland among with (chronic stress (somenthing impossible to avoid?? these days)) so i would definitely forget about that for the most part. green tea from whole/quality leaves and good uh race? is probably the best way to go if you want something thats not really hazardous to you in a way or another. i take non-caffeine coffee if i really wanna taste that burnt ashy wood drink (i like the taste yeah)).
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I drink caffeine free mountain dew b/c the caffeine gave me hecka health probs but I still like drinking it so w/e. I drink a lot of milk and stuff too tho.
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Actually I also read, Bonzi, that some benefits of coffee is lost when drank in the form of decaf. I can't remember the details though. *shrugs*
And milk, Vellfire, I hear both a lot of good and a lot of bad things about. But milk is delicious and I'm among the 20% of the world that isn't lactose intolerant at age 20 so I'm drinking it.
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so i just finished high school today
i bet you all feel really old now
hooooooly shit! my timeline is getting all fucked up because I don't remember you being THIS young. crazy. but congrats!
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this year's E3 is straight up terrible. idk if it's nostalgia or if video games are just super stagnant and boring right now
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soda is a treat, not something you should drink all the time. like whoa ice cream isn't good for u
water should be ya main intake. sick of ppl glomping tea/was born into a tealess society but yeah it's good
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soda is a treat, not something you should drink all the time.
i think everyone already knows this
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i think everyone already knows this
WRONG
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The owner of a studio where I occasionally do work on location used to drink cola obsessively. It was just kind of surreal. I told him to lay off the stuff a few times and eventually he managed to quit it, but what a weird thing to be addicted to.
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there's an outbreak of legionaires up in scotland and within the predicted radius of the assumed source is a compost source, one of the places where our supplier gets theirs from, so if anybody in the uk wants to buy compost. don't. If a bag splits, we have to wear vinyl gloves and dispose of them straight after, and then wash our hands afterwards due to the moisture content possibly containing the bacteria. Chances are it's not in any of it at all, but nobody's taking the risk. I'm in particular doing my best not to handle the stuff because of last year'ss illness, I'll be high risk. Though good luck if any bacteria thinks it can survive in my medication-filled blood.
Also: I prettymuch live off tea and have about one bottle of pop a day (two if working, 3-4 if shelf stacking (it's good if your stacking shelves with 25kg backs of stones/cement, ya need the sugar energy), but i wont touch those drinks like red bull and stuff. It smells like piss, and gives me all sorts of pains) but tea is what i have to function off of.
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also, being british, tea is more important to me than politics/religion
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I drink caffeine free mountain dew b/c the caffeine gave me hecka health probs but I still like drinking it so w/e. I drink a lot of milk and stuff too tho.
ahhaha i hate to do this but mountain dew contains bromine and that's a halogen and that shits toooxiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic *bonzis voice disapears as has the ape into the open trapdoor that had sudendly appeared under him*
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ahhaha i hate to do this but mountain dew contains bromine and that's a halogen and that shits toooxiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic *bonzis voice disapears as has the ape into the open trapdoor that had sudendly appeared under him*
haha dude trust me i know it's the worst i'm not d;umb
it's like telling smokers that smoking is bad for them THEY KNOW
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*...climbs outta the trapdoor!! what a climber, that's an ape for ya* yeah phew but ofc im kinda wary not being that Asshole Healthguy... you find your apartment full of orangutan dumps, somebody's torn the garbage bag all over the place in the living room etc
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i think everyone already knows this
it's not commonly thought of as a treat, and most who drink it do so habitually. this is esp true for the poor, particularly the urban poor. many corner stores and bodegas only ever sold junk food, and if they're your main source of sustenance, you're in trouble. that's on top of everything else you've got working against you. I know this isn't new info but it's an immensely important subject that often isn't taught in any level of education
and I personally advocate that it's a treat because I still rly like soda and I don't think everyone needs to drop it entirely. if any of ya want to tho that's good
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i meant everyone here btw
e: really my biggest problem was this part
like whoa ice cream isn't good for u
because you made it sound like people are just dumb and don't know soda is bad when a lot of the people drinking it are well aware, especially here
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those who decide to cut it often think it's just the worst, not a treat like cookies or biscotti or whatever
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oh no I doubt anyone here thinks soda is good for you, that wasn't my reason
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http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/why-russians-dont-get-depressed/
Random interesting article I ran into.
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ahhaha i hate to do this but mountain dew contains bromine and that's a halogen and that shits toooxiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic *bonzis voice disapears as has the ape into the open trapdoor that had sudendly appeared under him*
remember in elementary school when everyone said yellow 5 made your wiener shrink. everyone would scour the nutrition labels of every pop can and bottle. of course mountain dew was found to be the most wiener-shinkiest of all.
heh/.....wiener www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KrARTSuysM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KrARTSuysM)
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/why-russians-dont-get-depressed/ (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/why-russians-dont-get-depressed/)
Random interesting article I ran into.
" Instead of reliving their confused and visceral feelings, they reinterpreted the negative memory , which helped them make sense of it."
yes this is good. this is how you learn from mistakes instead of simply dwelling on the bad feelings. easier said than done but its essential to not blowing ur brains out if you live in russia im sure heh
also everyone knows that the japanese are the most genuinely depressed of all nations. (of course this means they have some of the most genuinely great literature, like the russians.) but its like a melancholy anime depression i guess, simmering beneath the surface of genki and tokyo game show 2005. natsukashii ne~
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It was reported in anthropology studies—such as by Weston La Barre, Jeffrey Henderson, and others—that Manchu mothers used to show affection for their children by performing fellatio on their male babies, placing its penis in their mouths and stimulating it, since it was not considered a sexual act, while the Manchu regarded public kissing with revulsion, which was considered sexual.[8][9][10][11][12] They were also reported to caress their children's sexual organs, tickling those of their daughters.[13]
uh wow
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Huh. That's very... very alien...
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from now on you are to call me BRUCE DACKLER
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I've never liked sweet things that much, I always go for savoury or spicy flavours (I'll maybe die of critical Salt), so I haven't ever had a problem avoiding eating stuff like cake or sweets or drinking fizzy juices. When I do, I usually get that diet stuff, but apparently it is worse somehow? Also I do tend to drink a lot of awful diet energy drinks with make me cough and burn my insides a little. I don't even think they help me stay awake or anything. I think I'll actually cut those out because I have actually noticed it of my own mind rather than reading about it, which usually doesn't inspire me to do much.
I am ambivalent about posting this information.
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in certain jewish areas of new york, the rabbi doing the circumcision removes the foreskin with his mouth (after the whole snipping has been done, he doesn't literally tear it off with his teeth like a gibbon eating a deflated balloon). It's been the cause of a lot of diseases and genital disfigurement in young boys and stuff.
This could be taken as a comment towards Geodude's post or a response to jamie's love of savoury foods :D
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UNsavoury foods
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This could be taken as a comment towards Geodude's post or a response to jamie's love of savoury foods :D
hahahahaha
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so i am getting back into making games again
there is this tiny voice in my head continuously screaming YOU HAVE LEARNED NOTHING over and over, and no amount of alcohol can stop it
although i have not tried alcohol to silence those voices i am making a blind unfounded assumption
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so i am getting back into making games again
there is this tiny voice in my head continuously screaming YOU HAVE LEARNED NOTHING over and over, and no amount of alcohol can stop it
although i have not tried alcohol to silence those voices i am making a blind unfounded assumption
YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fistpump!!!!!!
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there's a point when you realize that beating yourself over something doesn't actually lead to anywhere + also im pretty sure 'great art' requires just lotsa hard work and experimenting at this point + ive actually deciced some time ago that i refuse depression from that point onward- groaaann sorry quickly went into lifewisdom-potentially patronizing shit area but cant help it!! its u, every time you post somethign it makes me wanna talk anything/its nice to see u givin a piece of mind if this is the correct expression. groan i cant control my social impression anymore so ill do what i (really) want, WHAHAY!! WOOHHOO!! HAHHAA!! MARIOO!! HAHHAA!!! HAHHAA!! DIDDY KONG RACIIING!! PRESSSS START.
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I will join in on BELATED SODA DISCUSSION!!!
I drink it habitually and not as a treat nowadays, but I have MEDICAL REASONING (ho ho ho). Basically my diet is so fucked because of what I can and can't digest, fizzy drinks are essential for me in order to not lose huge amounts of weight. Around half my daily calories come from things like coke and sprite and shit (900 calories a bottle :O!!!!) and if I cut them, alongside other junk food, out of my diet I'd basically be eating a couple of hundred calories per day.
My diet is basically MEAT AND SWEETS, being the easiest things for me to digest without CRIPPLING PAIN OH NO. Thanks to moderating my diet in this way I get to have NORMALLIFE hooray!
But yeah, I'm pretty aware that I'm going to die young of EXTREME SUGAR DISEASE or whatever. Soda and snacks aren't like GOOD for me, but they're the best of a bad situation.
PS: Hundley you need to write that scary ass tweet novel you were writing about the PRISONER GUY. It inspired me to write (which I'm still doing - I gots a couple dozen thousand words of me novel written now hooray!)
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i think i'm getting to the point where i have let go of the delusions of success and therefore don't have them to satisfy me and that means i'll be able to create again because it makes me happy rather than to avoid being sad (because that doesn't work anyway). it's crazy how totally lost you can get. why are people like that? i know it's not just me. people really lose the plot, sometimes they never get it back!
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I'M WATCHING BIG TOURNAMENT SOCCER. I'M SO HAPPY
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I'M WATCHING BIG TOURNAMENT SOCCER. I'M SO HAPPY
my name is wojchiech scezney
im not so happy
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http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/cacophonics
made a new EP
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"No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your (old) age. Relax — This won't hurt."
I feel like this
also I think this dudes my favorite author and I never knew it.
I never knew he did fear and loathing
and I never knew johnny depp was such a badass
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i might be going 2 china this summer. i don't know yet, but it'll probably work out.
I'm on some crazy shit this summer because it's the first real more break I've had in over 5 years that's lasted more than a couple weeks....
i havent had a vacation since i was 15 years old and had a road trip with my parents..
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where you going? i'm going too, from july 9th - august 2nd. my flight is to beijing, i haven't decided how much i'm going to b moving around yet.
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I feel like this
also I think this dudes my favorite author and I never knew it.
I never knew he did fear and loathing
and I never knew johnny depp was such a badass
Crazy that you mentioned this. I literally just watched a documentary with that quote two days ago.
Definitely a great journalist pity he got burnt out in the last few decades of his life.
Also Johnny Depp is a badass. For thanking the hospital that treated his sick daughter he came back dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow and read all the sick children stories for four hours. Also when Heath Ledger died he flew back and acted in that shitty Dr Parnasses movie for free and the money was set aside for Heath's child.
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Actually I also read, Bonzi, that some benefits of coffee is lost when drank in the form of decaf. I can't remember the details though. *shrugs*
And milk, Vellfire, I hear both a lot of good and a lot of bad things about. But milk is delicious and I'm among the 20% of the world that isn't lactose intolerant at age 20 so I'm drinking it.
Coffee does have health benefits. It can protect against diabetes (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110113102200.htm). But, because coffee beans are burnt it contains carcinogens like Benzopyrene bleh, but then again it could protect against PACs. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099480)
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where you going? i'm going too, from july 9th - august 2nd. my flight is to beijing, i haven't decided how much i'm going to b moving around yet.
going to beijing, gonna stay with some strangers for a day or two, and then hop on a train west to meet up with homies in Chengdu
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Also when Heath Ledger died he flew back and acted in that shitty Dr Parnasses movie for free and the money was set aside for Heath's child.
That movie ruled
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going to beijing, gonna stay with some strangers for a day or two, and then hop on a train west to meet up with homies in Chengdu
Just checked out Chengdu and it looks awesome. Nice that you have friends there, get them to show you everything.
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Crazy that you mentioned this. I literally just watched a documentary with that quote two days ago.
Definitely a great journalist pity he got burnt out in the last few decades of his life.
Also Johnny Depp is a badass. For thanking the hospital that treated his sick daughter he came back dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow and read all the sick children stories for four hours. Also when Heath Ledger died he flew back and acted in that shitty Dr Parnasses movie for free and the money was set aside for Heath's child.
what is it called? the documentary?
I never knew about the sick kids or heath's kid. I was talking about him paying for thompson's funeral processions. Now he's even more awesome.
I saw that quote somewhere and it struck a chord. I feel the same way sometimes. And I think that is the best way he could explain why he did what he did. I watched the rum diaries and I really liked it. I need to go get all his stuff. He's got a dark realistic way or presenting subjects and ideas. Its like he slips them in as a sidenote to the narrative and humor of the story. But he's not, thats what the whole thing is about. Like, the way they talk about the perversion of puerto rico and stupid american tourism. I worked at the same island the movie is about and we moved that same rum that they filtered out and got drunk on. It was really cool seeing all of that.
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I found parnassus to be more the Brothers Grimm quality than Brazil etc quality
Coffee does have health benefits. It can protect against diabetes (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110113102200.htm). But, because coffee beans are burnt it contains carcinogens like Benzopyrene bleh, but then again it could protect against PACs. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099480)
it's not great for your stomach either but I guess that's not a problem for a lot of people
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Very few things are Brazil quality!
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On the coffee discussion: I've specifically heard that it reduces your risk of heart and liver disease as well.
But yeah, I know its got a lot of negative and positive effects all mixed into it. I wonder if the overall effect on average life span is positive or negative though.
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Assuming one trusts this source: http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/news/breaking-news/cup-joe-proves-lengthen-lifespan, it would seem to be, overall, slightly beneficial.
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attn everyone:
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3p0dzoALq1qanriio1_500.jpeg)
that is all
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Assuming one trusts this source: http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/news/breaking-news/cup-joe-proves-lengthen-lifespan (http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/news/breaking-news/cup-joe-proves-lengthen-lifespan), it would seem to be, overall, slightly beneficial.
Maybe a lil better source
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/340733/title/Coffee_gives_jolt_to_life_span (http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/340733/title/Coffee_gives_jolt_to_life_span)
Either way coffee tastes gross so I don't drink it lol.
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actually going back to the subject of knowing something is bad for you: hearing/knowing "that's not good for you", and actually knowing and comprehending the extent to which it is harmful to your health, are two different things -
like when there was a solar eclipse when I was a kid, and the teacher said "don't look at the eclipse or it will hurt your eyes, we'll make special glasses for it". I was sick like always so I missed the event, but I decided to take a peek on my own and see if it physically hurt. it didn't, it wasn't even bright, so I kept on looking for like two minutes, absorbing all those UV rays with satisfaction. a few years later I found out the truth, and at that time I was annoyed that the teacher didn't give us the explanation just cuz we were kids.
I think ppl must do that same sort of thing all the time, I occasionally witness it. earlier today I saw someone on youtube defending energy drinks for some reason, claiming all the bad stuff you hear about them must be exaggeration
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Farren - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo:_The_Life_and_Work_of_Dr._Hunter_S._Thompson
Doctor Parnassus was a confusing mess imo.
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I'm gonna have to agree with earl. When I was little I asked my mom what cancer was and where it came from. She said it was a disease people get from "eating shit you're not s'posed to"
so naturally I thought she meant crayons
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This is why you don't glaze over the truth for kids, you tell them the absolute truth, they will be better off, IMHO. I say this because I absolutely wish my parents did so for me. The only exception could be arguably Santa Claus. But I wonder sometimes if he's worth the heartbreak later. Admittedly, I did not ask enough questions as a kid, but I can't help but wonder if in my specific case where I did ask more questions I would of got either wrong or 'kid friendly' answers.
Don't underestimate those younger than you. :|
I just drank a chilled starbucks frappuccino for the first time. It was delicious, but looking at the nutrient content, I can understand why.
Really though, its still a thousand times better than soda. For one, there is about 3.5 times more caffeine in a frappuccino than a cola per oz. (this is a good thing for me, I want more caffeine) Calorie wise they are the same oz to oz. Sugar-wise frappuccino has a little over a third of the amount colas do. Also has the minor benefit of a little bit of calcium and protein.
A lot more sodium though. And it has cholesterol and fat. But still, this is probably the least healthy coffee I could drink and its still vastly better for me than the colas I drank.
So yeah, I think switching is a very good idea in my case.
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yeah I'm gonna straight up not sugar coat anything and tell my kids shit like it is. If my kid ends up playing too many vidgams and starts running around telling other kids he's going to blow their heads off or shit like that that kids do I'm going to show him pictures of the charcoal babies and dismembered victims of the gaza strip raid or whatever current atrocities are going on. If he/she ends up going to a shit public school that misinforms and brainwashes them with that "dare program" shit I'm going to show them documentaries on how all of those bad drugs were/are being shipped in by the CIA. What they actually do to the human body and how shit that he's been eating or drinking everyday is so much worse for him. And if my kid starts fucking at an early age all I gotta do is buy a bunch of contraceptives and sit him down infront of teen mom for a couple hours. I'm gonna teach him how to defend him/herself at a young age but how to be a compassionate and thoughtful person so they don't turn into bullies. If youngun does turn into one I'm going to beat their ass so they know what it feels like and sit them infront of the movie "precious" for about six hours on a constant loop.
This will either land me in jail or I'll be the ultimate parent or both.
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actually, when I was a kid my mom would always tell me about children who were abducted and how they were found etc. not on purpose, she'd just get really upset and worried about it and end up telling me so I'd be careful and stay safe. as a result, and in combo with my innate anxiety, I was always mortified whenever one of my friends' stepdads drove me home at night without my friend in the car. I'd think back to this one case of a kid who was kept in the woods and who'd try to keep his captor talking becuase when he was talking he wouldn't hurt him, so that's what I did I just kept them talking so they wouldn't pull off the road and take me into the woods. it was just a weird phobia that no one knew about or coulda forseen, but came from some info that would have been better left untold/at least not in detail
so yeah, it's definitely a good idea to keep some stuff from your kids. there really are some things you should avoid exposing them to until they're older, though it's wrong to attempt to control everything. kids don't need to know in explicit detail how violent and terrible people can be. but then there's stuff like sex and "where babies come from", completely harmless info that's for some reason lied about and ends up being the source of shame/self-esteem issues as we already know
and I know ur not serious gonna start being a parent tomorrow, but I can't press post without writing that of course most of those things you mentioned can be prevented in the first place if ya lead by example & aim to be a present and caring parent...no new info here of course
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Since we're talking about health:
I'm dabbling with 80/10/10 diet. It's a raw diet where 80% of cals come from fruit, 10% from protein foods and 10% from fat foods. So I eat shit loads of raw fruits and huge salads every night. Here is my food log for today:
http://doktormartini.tumblr.com/post/24865197373/food-log-for-june-10th (http://doktormartini.tumblr.com/post/24865197373/food-log-for-june-10th)
I use www.fitday.com (http://www.fitday.com) (really cool site it's free too) to track this stuff and it gave me a list of all nutrients. The only ones it said I was deficient in (other than b12 [i take a supplement like all vegans should] and D [I'm ][/I'm]) are calcium (612.1mg - RDA is 1,000mg), Selenium (25.1mcg - RDA is 55.0mg) and Zinc (7.4mg - RDA is 11mg). I'm also low in sodium but that's not really a bad thing. Selenium can easily be remedied by eating a Brazil nut once or twice a week. Also, this is just for today. I don't eat the same things every day so the numbers will be different and hopefully average out to be fine. Also I'm pretty sure most people are deficient in one or the other anyways.[/i]
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attn everyone:
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3p0dzoALq1qanriio1_500.jpeg)
that is all
stop creeping my facebook pics...
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I just drank a chilled starbucks frappuccino for the first time. It was delicious, but looking at the nutrient content, I can understand why.
Really though, its still a thousand times better than soda. For one, there is about 3.5 times more caffeine in a frappuccino than a cola per oz. (this is a good thing for me, I want more caffeine) Calorie wise they are the same oz to oz. Sugar-wise frappuccino has a little over a third of the amount colas do. Also has the minor benefit of a little bit of calcium and protein.
A lot more sodium though. And it has cholesterol and fat. But still, this is probably the least healthy coffee I could drink and its still vastly better for me than the colas I drank.
So yeah, I think switching is a very good idea in my case.
lol just now dipping into the whole starbucks thing eh?
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yo dietcoke (speak of the devil), that sounds awesome + i hope you'll have a good trip!! maybe say something/post pics once you've done with it, it's up to u (i'm interested in travelling as well)
Since we're talking about health:
I'm dabbling with 80/10/10 diet. It's a raw diet where 80% of cals come from fruit, 10% from protein foods and 10% from fat foods. So I eat shit loads of raw fruits and huge salads every night. Here is my food log for today:
http://doktormartini.tumblr.com/post/24865197373/food-log-for-june-10th (http://doktormartini.tumblr.com/post/24865197373/food-log-for-june-10th)
I use www.fitday.com (http://www.fitday.com) (really cool site it's free too) to track this stuff and it gave me a list of all nutrients. The only ones it said I was deficient in (other than b12 [i take a supplement like all vegans should] and D [I'm outside a lot during the day]) are calcium (612.1mg - RDA is 1,000mg), Selenium (25.1mcg - RDA is 55.0mg) and Zinc (7.4mg - RDA is 11mg). I'm also low in sodium but that's not really a bad thing. Selenium can easily be remedied by eating a Brazil nut once or twice a week. Also, this is just for today. I don't eat the same things every day so the numbers will be different and hopefully average out to be fine. Also I'm pretty sure most people are deficient in one or the other anyways.[/i]
well, fructose is harder on your liver and the excess constant glucose is going to give you either hypoglycemia/diabetus or candida problems down the road. at this point i can't stand the huge spiking from fruits + you'd probably get most of nutrients from either whole foods or lots of veggies. at least read a lot about glycemic index!! i think that at least is something pr useful to all people in general, it's a little easier to plan your diet when you know whats going to drain you/spike your blood glucose up.
also great that you're taking B12 as all vegans should but take it in methylocobalamin form!!! the cyanocobalamin is a storage form and only small portion gets converted into the active form + people report problems with the cyano-one. and yeah, people are deficient in one or other way in nutrients/minerals.
read chris kresser's website if you are interested about the whole fruits possibly not good as the main diet - thing (and i mean not in YOUR DIETS SHIT/CONVERT INTO MINE but you know, information with lots of studies included). he advocates paleo diet which he has researched well but you don't have to buy into it if you ain't eager, there's just lot of info in the site (eg the b12 i mentioned). i'd also add coconut oil (eps if you bake/fry things) and... specific brand blue fermented cod liver oil (with organic butter from grass feed pastures for ya vit D and A and B3 needs, unless you are ... lacto-ovo-vegan or something similiar then try adding K2 vitamin instead). I could give a great article about it by Weston A. Price. avoid vegetable oils like a plague and use occasionally only extra virgin olive oil on salads instead. also burn all gluten etc...
...
:^B
...
¨:^B
EDIT groan just tell me to shut up/burn this witch in a bonfire if you wilst but just be open about it and gimme a shout....
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yo dietcoke (speak of the devil), that sounds awesome + i hope you'll have a good trip!! maybe say something/post pics once you've done with it, it's up to u (i'm interested in travelling as well)
i will. i'm not usually the type that takes a lot of pics but i think i'll end up grabbing a cheap camera and snap pics while i'm wylin' out over there
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i will. i'm not usually the type that takes a lot of pics but i think i'll end up grabbing a cheap camera and snap pics while i'm wylin' out over there
hell yea!! if u can then pls du... what a man/that's my man/listen to the man!!!
also Chengdu looks awesome hell yeah. imagining dietbro with 3 chinese ladies in each arms, with the Widest Grin On Earth in his face
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i'll try and arrange that shot just for u
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well, fructose is harder on your liver and the excess constant glucose is going to give you either hypoglycemia/diabetus or candida problems down the road. at this point i can't stand the huge spiking from fruits + you'd probably get most of nutrients from either whole foods or lots of veggies. at least read a lot about glycemic index!! i think that at least is something pr useful to all people in general, it's a little easier to plan your diet when you know whats going to drain you/spike your blood glucose up.
also great that you're taking B12 as all vegans should but take it in methylocobalamin form!!! the cyanocobalamin is a storage form and only small portion gets converted into the active form + people report problems with the cyano-one. and yeah, people are deficient in one or other way in nutrients/minerals.
read chris kresser's website if you are interested about the whole fruits possibly not good as the main diet - thing (and i mean not in YOUR DIETS SHIT/CONVERT INTO MINE but you know, information with lots of studies included). he advocates paleo diet which he has researched well but you don't have to buy into it if you ain't eager, there's just lot of info in the site (eg the b12 i mentioned). i'd also add coconut oil (eps if you bake/fry things) and... specific brand blue fermented cod liver oil (with organic butter from grass feed pastures for ya vit D and A and B3 needs, unless you are ... lacto-ovo-vegan or something similiar then try adding K2 vitamin instead). I could give a great article about it by Weston A. Price. avoid vegetable oils like a plague and use occasionally only extra virgin olive oil on salads instead. also burn all gluten etc...
Well I disagree. There are people who've been on this diet for 5, 10, or more years with no problems. The author of the the book 80/10/10 diet (which I don't like btw) has been. So has Durianrider (he eats 30+ bananas a day). Your body's main energy source is glucose and fruit is one of the best places to get it imo.
Modern Paleo diet is bs imo as well. Not just because lol it's not vegan but health wise. Also, I love coconut oil and use it all the time however on this new diet i'm trying added oils aren't allowed.
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lol just now dipping into the whole starbucks thing eh?
Well, I've had a Starbucks coffee before. But I'd have one every 9-12 months if even that often and only for the past couple of years.
Basically I've gradually gotten into coffee in general. but suddenly decided to ramp it up.
Outside of Coffee as my preferred caffienated beverage, I recently stumbled into using a android app on my phone that lets me easy track what I eat with data on calories/fat/sugar/carbs/protein/vitamins/minerals.
Basically I'm going on a diet, not because one day I looked at my fat self and thought "I gotta do something about this" but because I got a cool piece of technology and thought "OH! technology that can makes eating healthy basically automated and with little effort! THE FUTURE IS NOW! I'm going to use this because I think its a cool piece of technology." Basically "LOL TECHNOLOGY FIX ALL OF MY PROBLEMS." I'm a technophile.
It is working though. With the app and having knowledge of what I've been eating stored in my phone (which goes with me everywhere) I'm almost 'autistically' making sure I eat healthier... and less. Sort of gamification maybe? Like, looking at the little progress bars on the app gives me the same feeling that video games bars do. Like my diet is the equivalent to Minecraft.
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Endorphins
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technology fixed all my problems, now i'm a robot. beep.
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Well, I am using an Android phone. I am an android using an android.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with my dad. He sells used industrial stuff. anything he can get his hands on for free or cheap, stores it and then sells it. Its his own business because he doesn't like working with people. Basically he's a control freak. Anyway, I was helping him move some heavy industrial shit around his warehouse in and out of trucks etc and afterwards I said "You should see if you can't invest in automating a lot of this, especially loading and unloading, because this work is difficult, time consuming, and mind-numbing" or at least that what I told him in essence. His reply: "You want to take the fun out of everything."
How is moving heavy metal shit that could crush your skull if handled improperly back and forth, to and fro, fun? Like, I could understand SCAVAGING for the stuff being fun, organizing it once you have it being somewhat interesting maybe even to a minor degree. But not the labor of loading shit on and off of trucks. Robots should be doing that.
Like, he has a fork-truck, that is sort of automation, but of course only uses it on stuff that literally can't be moved in by hand, and really, why stop there?
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Holy fuck you ate 13 bananas in a day.
Let's talk about your feces. Are they very runny from eating all these fruits, I'd imagine they would be.
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Ugh lets not I have a over active visual imagination. Glad I already ate.
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heavy lifting is more enjoyable than sitting infron of an automated process. It's not like WOW ITS SO FUN, but it's physical work, and that releases hormones and such, makes you feel like a man. It's why all them meatheads spend fifty hours a day down the gym pumping iron in tight v-necked tshirts which are not at all camp looking. Dudes at work will get a forklift to do stuff when it's quicker to get a pump truck to pull the pallet out by hand (or if there's only a few bags of cement/concrete on it, drag it out literally by hand) because they don't want to do anything. I do it all by hand, unless I need someone to fork it away.
the idea of having everything moved for us by machines/whatever is really harmful to society, we're already becomming a blob-like species and sacrificing all of our functions in the name of convinience. With the way things are going, in two hundred years time, people will be watching Return Of The jedi and criticise Jabba The Hutt for being too thin/energetic. People just don't seem to want to do anything physical. Even changing disks during a game is a CONTROVERSIAL TASK according to the more spherical members of the gaming community.
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Its funny though because I'm using something automated that mostly helps me AVOID becoming a blob.
Its got a scanner app built into it so I just scan the food and tell it how much of that I am eating. That is all I have to do at this point. Though this is taking away the mental task of writing it all down and adding it up rather than physical work, same basic principle though.
It'd be even better if it was just built into my glasses in the for of AR and like immediately recognize how much I'm eating and of what food and give me an overlay heads up warning when I'm nearing my limits for the day or something.
Maybe calculate if there are any substances that I'm lacking (vitamins, minerals, proteins, etc.) and automatically suggest to me what I should eat next. Like "You are lacking in Vitamin A, you should eat one of those carrots you bought yesterday."
Of course this could have the double edged sword of having some sort of advertisement built in as well :P Like "INSTEAD OF THAT LAME CARROT YOU SHOULD ORDER SOME DELICIOUS PIZZA HUT" *Shows glistening bacon covered pizza ad in front of my eyes*
If I could, I would attempt to make a business that is all algorithm, produces it in some automated mini factory, sells something over the internet, ships it, and automatically handles the deposit of money into a single account that I'd access from a single debt/credit card. Only thing I'd have to do is design the products themselves and advertise it. Have all of this just built into my home, mail man comes up and picks up my mail which is all the automated shipments and shit. I'd end up spending like a few hours a week at most leaving me time to play video games, read, and tinker with my various non-profitable projects.
Of course this isn't likely to ever happen for me. Its a pipedream. Shit would probably be to prohibitively expensive and time consuming to set up let alone even be technologically possible.
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Also I forgot to mention, I wouldn't be sitting in front of the automated system unless I'm eating or reading a book (glancing up every once in a while to make sure its still working). Both of which are more mentally stimulating activities than moving shit. Otherwise, I'd be standing, maybe at a computer surfing the internet or gaming or something.
Another tangent thought, my brothers messed with me for setting up a standing desk (they seemed to think my sudden change in life style made me weird, like usual). Then one of my younger brother's friends mentioned while I was playing Need For Speed that I wouldn't be standing while driving a car so its less realistic and I mentioned that he shouldn't be sitting when he plays shooters because that is not very realistic and he shut up. Was a satisfying social moment, I don't have enough of those lately...
I need to go out more.
(EDIT: please note the first half of my post is on the previous page)
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Holy fuck you ate 13 bananas in a day.
Let's talk about your feces. Are they very runny from eating all these fruits, I'd imagine they would be.
Once Peter Andre FAINTED from eating too many bananas.
You can OD on the potassium apparently!
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Well, technically you can OD on water. ODing on Potassium doesn't surprise me too much. :P
Despite some of the less appetizing comments on the topic of bananas made here, all this makes me want to eat one.
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your pipedream business is one which runs on machines and doesn't employ a workforce? That's pretty scary.
I read/draw/write music on my breaks, and allow the time at work to think of new things to draw/write/do/make, yeah lifting concrete blocks onto a shelf is hardely mentally taxing, but it allows the mind to wander, like einstein was just a patent clarke. It's not something I'm going to do forever, but it tides me over until I break through in one of my fields, or save enough to do a masters degree, all the while allowing my mind to wander, and stop me looking like a lump of jelly with glasses taped on.
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man looking for good VSTs is like looking for good Game Boy Color games, it's just this wasteland with no real good advice, everything is THE MOST ADVANCED VINTAGE SOUND etc.
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your pipedream business is one which runs on machines and doesn't employ a workforce? That's pretty scary.
I read/draw/write music on my breaks, and allow the time at work to think of new things to draw/write/do/make, yeah lifting concrete blocks onto a shelf is hardely mentally taxing, but it allows the mind to wander, like einstein was just a patent clarke. It's not something I'm going to do forever, but it tides me over until I break through in one of my fields, or save enough to do a masters degree, all the while allowing my mind to wander, and stop me looking like a lump of jelly with glasses taped on.
Why is that scary? My mom makes a lot of money selling shit on the internet and she doesn't employ anyone. She does the work herself, the only difference is that I wouldn't be doing most of the physical work the robots would.
I can take time to let my mind wander in the shower.
I just don't want to stress about money or work. I dont take orders well, I freak out when given responsibilty for other people's important anything, and I bore easily. I'm not competitive enough. I suck normal work labour or office level and I know no one that can get me a decent industry job. I also REALLY SUCK AT INTERVIEWS.
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that shit puts people out of work
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Then my mom is putting people out of work for not hiring anyone and doing the physical work entirely by herself.
Like, technically, I'd probably have to hire a mechanic occasionally to fix the machine/mini-factory and I'd have to buy the equipment in the first place so the people that made said equipment are getting paid early on. As are the people shipping my product. So technically I'd still be paying people I suppose. just not in the actual manufacturing I'd just have to put minimal effort in myself. Which if you think about it is exactly what most fucking 'higher ups' do, they delegate all the work, with the exception of having to spend a little time making some key decisions. Then kicks back and smokes a cigar assuming they made the right choices.
Only I don't smoke and rarely sit down.
Doesn't matter anyway, it'll never happen for me unless the equipment becomes mind-blowingly cheap, and it wont. Hell if it did anyone with a computer and a internet connection could do the same thing if they had the start up money or were willing to risk taking out a loan.
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heavy lifting is more enjoyable than sitting infron of an automated process. It's not like WOW ITS SO FUN, but it's physical work, and that releases hormones and such, makes you feel like a man. It's why all them meatheads spend fifty hours a day down the gym pumping iron in tight v-necked tshirts which are not at all camp looking. Dudes at work will get a forklift to do stuff when it's quicker to get a pump truck to pull the pallet out by hand (or if there's only a few bags of cement/concrete on it, drag it out literally by hand) because they don't want to do anything. I do it all by hand, unless I need someone to fork it away.
the idea of having everything moved for us by machines/whatever is really harmful to society, we're already becomming a blob-like species and sacrificing all of our functions in the name of convinience. With the way things are going, in two hundred years time, people will be watching Return Of The jedi and criticise Jabba The Hutt for being too thin/energetic. People just don't seem to want to do anything physical. Even changing disks during a game is a CONTROVERSIAL TASK according to the more spherical members of the gaming community.
i kinda disagree. to the degree that machines can be used to automate shitty boring tasks to free up our time to do other things i think they ought to be employed so long as they don't create more problems than they solve, but rlly u gotta start thinking in a context outside of our existing society(post-capitalism, AFTER THE REV DOGG) for this stuff to really unshackle us from most of the shitty labor-intensive work required for survival that used to make up the entirety of our waking lives as a species. hopefully we'll be living healthier more communal lives rather than sitting in little compartments wired up to some kind of a screen all the time
but yea, doing stuff by hand can be pretty rewarding and exercise feels awesome.
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completely automated production in and of itself should be a good thing! problem is, we live in a society where we need to sell our labor for wages and the increase in productivity that automation yields means companies can produce more while rendering more and more of the population completely superfluous to capital so u get giant swaths of "surplus populations" which have no prospect for work in the formal economy(thus no means to participate in consumption) on one pole and the other an unprecedented growth in abundance & productivity.
WUT!!!????
WELCOME 2 DA PLANET OF THA SLUMZ
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manual labor will start to replace the more resource-inefficient side of automation within our generation's lifetime
generally speaking, working with your hands is a pleasing and relaxing experience for human beings. typing/mousing doesn't count at all. in general humans don't need constant mental stimulation, that's just what our gen is used to. it's like eating mcdonalds. and the less time you can spend staring at a stupid screen the better!!
WELCOME 2 DA PLANET OF THA SLUMZ
this book is good http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Slums-Mike-Davis/dp/1844670228
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http://www.30bananasaday.com/
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For me whether or not my hands are in use doesn't matter all that much. Also long as I'm not bored.
I enjoy movies, which don't require the use of my hands at all, I also enjoy legos, which requires the use of my hands, but not BECAUSE I'm using my hands. Its because I'm using my brain.
If I wanted to relax I'd read a book or nap.
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Also, earlchip, I really hope you are wrong on the issue of automation vs manual labor in the future.
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why? what we've got going right now is unsustainable from multiple perspectives. there are somethings that are (one could argue) necessarily automated, but then there's a lot of stuff that has only been automated to the extent it has for the purpose of competitive profit/economies of scale, and in this case the end result often isn't better for us as a whole. everything that has been going on with the food industry is a good example
dok/bonzi do you know anything about anti-inflammatory foods?
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http://singularityhub.com/2011/01/31/automation-domination-robotic-farm-for-hydroponic-lettuce-in-belgium-video/
The robots will feed us grapes as we lay back in our day beds!
OK, yeah this comes from a site called "singularity Hub" but still there's a video and everything.
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wait
about mental stimulation
how the fuck are we more accustomed to mental stimulation nowadays? Cus from what I understand the most accessible media out there drives us towards mental degradation more than stimulation. For one to actually achieve what you're talking about they'd have to be actively seeking it. And the average person just doesn't do that.
the constant torrant of inane subliminal commercialism and philosophical control. that shit wasn't nearly as prominent back in the day. It was def not as easy to obtain mental stimulation but at the same time you weren't being goaded into becoming a fucking vegetable from birth and as a product of which, brainwashed into not giving a shit or thinking that stuff as some kind of mental heresy.
I started buying different intellectually creative films and shows and shit. I had the first season of deadwood and breaking bad and a few other things at the house. They couldn't afford to pay for the cable when I was gone so my brothers got into it being the only stuff left in the house and have been sharing it with all their friends since. I'm going to keep progressively buying more films and stuff like that at a progressive rate of intellectualism and see if I can't trick them into a higher education. Eventually..........there will be documentaries...
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also I think its been said but we have to discern what kind of labor is "menial" and what isn't. Bathroom attendants, janatorial service, welders, crane operators, assembly line workers. Because this shit isn't black and white and I understand the marxist point of view that humans are naturally above that shit. But every forest needs some fuckin fungi, every lake a bottom feeder. Some people are above that, some people are content with it.
I think we need to be more aware of peoples own personal contemptment or enjoyment for their positions in life, on a personal level. Because as a capitalist society, automating what you personally see as unfit puts alot of those people at an even worse disadvantage then they already are.
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why? what we've got going right now is unsustainable from multiple perspectives. there are somethings that are (one could argue) necessarily automated, but then there's a lot of stuff that has only been automated to the extent it has for the purpose of competitive profit/economies of scale, and in this case the end result often isn't better for us as a whole. everything that has been going on with the food industry is a good example
dok/bonzi do you know anything about anti-inflammatory foods?
What about them? Turmeric is one of the best.
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I need em for my limbs. I use turmeric whenever I make dinner and I have capsules I rarely take but...I need more...
how the fuck are we more accustomed to mental stimulation nowadays? Cus from what I understand the most accessible media out there drives us towards mental degradation more than stimulation. For one to actually achieve what you're talking about they'd have to be actively seeking it. And the average person just doesn't do that.
constant input, constant stimuli. just cuz it's stimulation doesn't mean it's productive. if anything it's the opposite, if you can just veg out to pretty colors and dumb humor or drama, why pursue anything else? brave new world looks on with a smug grin
eg take a look at old tv shows, like Carson's late show vs more recent Letterman shows
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oh ok like poking an aemeba with some tweezers is stimuli kind of stimuli
I automatically assumed it had to be constructive
got it
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There is a big communal aspect that comes with physical work that you don't get in customer services/office/webstore, and it does make a kinda 'bond'. While I do agree that in perfect utopia-land, it would be good for everything to be automated, we're quite far from that, and I see levelling the economic divide a more important goal at this time. Only when we've made everybody equal, merged the working and middle classes and removed the upper/upper-middle classes will we have a platform to start making such changes.
There's a difference between mental stimulation and intillectual stimulation. Watching WWE is hardely intillectual, but there is a lot to concentrate on, from the colours the noise and the movements, the constant barrage of media, then the adverts which contain all of that in 30 second doses. People have become overly reliant on constant streams of mental stimulation thanks to TV, but it's shit you don't have to think about so it's not intillectual stimulation.
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oh hey look at this recent New York Times article about artificial sweeteners (for those who were saying how they're the reason that diet sodas are SO MUCH WORSE FOR YOU than regular sodas) http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/which-sweetener-should-you-choose/?ref=health?src=dayp
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oh hey look at this recent New York Times article about artificial sweeteners (for those who were saying how they're the reason that diet sodas are SO MUCH WORSE FOR YOU than regular sodas) http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/which-sweetener-should-you-choose/?ref=health?src=dayp (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/which-sweetener-should-you-choose/?ref=health?src=dayp)
They're gross.
Also earlchip
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02995/Dr-Weil-Anti-Inflammatory-Food-Pyramid.html (http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02995/Dr-Weil-Anti-Inflammatory-Food-Pyramid.html)
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groan i don't want to respond to these diet stuff more. i want to hold out. i don't want to become the hot diet debater. do what you want. also that ny times article is either from industry lobbyist or from a garbage writer (gotta earn that daily living somehow) and actually supports that you're going to take the artificial sweeteners at your own risk... also no sources to studies, doctors also have no sources to their claims. the best source is from as many doctors as possible (preferably from different professional backgrounds and experiences) and by studying actual med lit/studies. there's no in-between if you are serious about the diet/health stuff and not just trying to find support your view (can't give on that sweet coffee/soda/tea/sugar/sweeteners/fruit/meat/veggies/honey/whatever...). rely on institution's dogma or person in a white coat's comforting voice for all i care. nothing personal to anybody in this post.
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There is a big communal aspect that comes with physical work that you don't get in customer services/office/webstore, and it does make a kinda 'bond'. While I do agree that in perfect utopia-land, it would be good for everything to be automated, we're quite far from that, and I see levelling the economic divide a more important goal at this time. Only when we've made everybody equal, merged the working and middle classes and removed the upper/upper-middle classes will we have a platform to start making such changes.
There's a difference between mental stimulation and intillectual stimulation. Watching WWE is hardely intillectual, but there is a lot to concentrate on, from the colours the noise and the movements, the constant barrage of media, then the adverts which contain all of that in 30 second doses. People have become overly reliant on constant streams of mental stimulation thanks to TV, but it's shit you don't have to think about so it's not intillectual stimulation.
Do you not think that the radical change of automated EVERYTHING could bring about an a evening-out effect? Especially when it comes to food (healthy AND otherwise), if we reach a point where it takes little to no effort to actually produce food, wouldn't that make it so cheap that even people from third world countries would be more capable of paying for it? or even getting a set amount for free since it may very well become so cheap? (assuming there is a location for them to purchase it near them)
Again though I'm being a dreamer here and thinking of the idea of automation making it so cheap that this would be possible. Which may not be possible, since automation only covers the costs of the actual labor involved. There is still the costs of land, utilities (water, electricity), maintenance, and who ever runs it is going to want a percentage.
But still, even with those costs I imagine the food's price would pretty drastically decline if such automation were to be achieved. That is a good thing.
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it takes a lot of energy to run robots. it doesn't take a lot of energy to run migrant wage slaves. human bodies take fuel that's pretty easy to produce and turn it in to labor. robot bodies take a fuel that's limited and difficult to produce (electricity by way of fossil fuels) and turn it in to labor.
there's a never ending supply of wage slaves, especially as economic conditions worsen due to the vagaries for capitalism. if one of your wage slaves breaks down (loses his arm to a turbine while he's picking tomaters) then he's easily replaced - especially if there's a lot of demand for work, but far less demand for unskilled labor. if one of your robots throws a servo then you have to pay a lot of money to either replace the robot or get robot inc. out to fix your robot.
our great technological achievements by way of the information revolution have made hiring wage slaves even easier. you mentioned wanting to run a business defined entirely by algorithms - that business exists, and it's called walmart. walmart is able to buy goods that are very, very cheap because an algorithm has figured out that by buying from X supplier in Y country assembled in Z third world hell hole you can produce the cheapest fake plastic piece of shit possible. our technologies of simulation allow for capital to maximize their business to razor sharp margins of profit because technology means that you can run a factory in indonesia (where the workers work for pennies a day) from the comfort of your mansion in california. you can get goods to the shelf from across the world almost instantly by this same network of computers. walmart is cheap and effective because of their supply chain (allowed by technology), which allows them to grow large and buy at greater economies of scale, which allow them to command better prices for the goods that they buy as a wholesaler and allows them to gain greater technological edge and so on and so forth in a feedback loop. because of this great efficiency which allows for walmart to seek out the cheapest labor, cheapest raw materials, and cheapest goods, walmart has no ties to any nation - it is a globalized nation in and of itself. there is no reason for a factory to be in america, where labor is expensive and safety regulations are cumbersome. because these factories no longer exist (or have their labor cost dragged down by competing with wage slaves in poorer countries) the cost of labor in america also shrinks and makes it even cheaper for businesses that don't have the competitive edge of walmart to use wage slave labor here in the u s of a.
at the same time that technology has made labor insanely, disastrously cheap, it has also allowed for the white collar section of the economy to play the markets in ways that are beyond human comprehension. most trading done today is high frequency trading which is done on the millisecond by intelligent agents created by quants in wall street firms who are compensated in six figure salaries. this detachment from the reality of money has lead, most recently, to our current long recession, where real assets (homes, jobs, educations, futures) were treated like tokens in a game, and a series of short sighted moves on a computer database crashed the real economy. regular traders, or small traders like your local 401k, are forced out of the market and people with extant advantage (the CEO of walmart, for example) are the only players left in this light speed game of poker.
the cheapening of labor also leads to more consumer debt as you are required to have greater (insanely expensive) education to get a job running the computers instead of a service sector job selling cheap plastic shit made by wage slaves in other countries. consumer debt becomes a commodity that can be traded by the algorithmic daemons which comprise global finance.
http://www.thebaffler.com/past/of_flying_cars/ <-- that article by david graeber is a really good primer on this sort of thing
the reason that we don't have automated factories that give us infinite time to pursue our leisure is because there's no economically sensible reason for capitalists to do so. labor is cheap, and cheap labor has the end effecting of further cheapening labor. robots may very well lead to our post-scarcity star trek future (i also doubt this), but there's no reason for someone who already has a very comfortable stake in the current system to make this change. i don't believe in great conspriacies (a capitalist will just as soon slit the throat of his friend for a penny as some prole on the street) but there's a huge systematic resistance to disruptive technology. even the relatively benign and capital-friendly technology of the internet is seen as a threat to the existing system - much less something as disruptive as a system of labor which destroys the current precepts of consumer culture.
so to address your wishes for a society controlled by robots and algorithms: you have your wish. it's just that it fucking blows and doesn't make your life any better - quite the opposite, in fact.
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hell yeah I'm like modding these compressors/limiters made in this http://www.kvraudio.com/product/reajs_by_cockos trying this idea of a multipass comp/limiter that raises/lowers the threshold/ratio with an acceleration rate so you could level off the compression ratio in these curves and see if that works well compared to having a shitload of compressors in series. I'm just modifying the existing code but I feel more like programar than I ever did in college. Like actually solving problems relevant to me with coding
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Warped655, watch Fritz Lang's Metropolis and Charlie Chaplin's classic film, Modern Times. They were made in the 20's and 30's respectively but still manage to spell out a great deal of what's wrong with an automated work force.
With machines running everything, there's no employment, the poorer will get poorer, while the rich will get richer now they don't have to pay wages, and will simply widen the gap between the two. The gap needs to be removed before we can begin to think about making those kinda drastic changes imo.
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metropolis is a godmovie
the anime is not as good but that rock holmes kid is in it. osamu tezuka's cool-coiffed satan. good anime character
**errrr holmes. rock holmes. not howard heh thats quite another anime character...
****satan? or should i say judas...
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Warped655, watch Fritz Lang's Metropolis and Charlie Chaplin's classic film, Modern Times. They were made in the 20's and 30's respectively but still manage to spell out a great deal of what's wrong with an automated work force.
With machines running everything, there's no employment, the poorer will get poorer, while the rich will get richer now they don't have to pay wages, and will simply widen the gap between the two. The gap needs to be removed before we can begin to think about making those kinda drastic changes imo.
yeah and I'm just gonna have to AHEM COUGH *VONNEGUT* again
also tristero that is a damn good post
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There is no wave-particle duality
Everything is a wave.
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I facebook quoted parts of that post if you don't mind. Thats a really good layman's layout of what we've been talking about. I really like that post.
I gotta hardon for that post.
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I'm helping head up a NaGaDeMO team, leaving for a trip in a day, and just found my free weekly pass to Broke Straight Boys from the Pride festival. Pity I lost the towel I got from their star Blake Bennett in return for my tip, 'cause I copped a feel when tipping.
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You guys say wage slaves are cheaper and thus a better work force, but I'm reading things that say otherwise.
http://kdpaine.blogs.com/themeasurementstandard/2012/03/warehouse-wage-slaves-vs-the-robots.html (http://kdpaine.blogs.com/themeasurementstandard/2012/03/warehouse-wage-slaves-vs-the-robots.html)
The video also brings up that the robots are faster and more efficient than human workers. Sure its not widespread in its use yet, but amazon/walgreens/other places mentioned is a pretty big step.
But yeah, I know what you guys mean about robots taking over. In that by having the robots taking over as the economy is set up now would just put almost everyone with out a college degree out of jobs and make them desolate. This article also seems to agree with that sentiment: http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/15/opinion/oe-brain15 (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/15/opinion/oe-brain15) and suggests we change the way our economy works.
Its pretty much what I would want from this world. Everyone gets a set amount of money that they can survive healthily on, and any extra work in more intellectual pursuits would get them extra money if they so desire. Since the robots are doing all the mundane shit.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/why-are-there-gay-men_n_1590501.html?utm_hp_ref=science&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
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The video also brings up that the robots are faster and more efficient than human workers.
in some instances they are ie: assembly line work but generally its much much cheaper to hire a starving poor person. It really depends on the type of work they're being used for. Like the example he used of "picking tomaters" its a mindless job of repetition in an area where right now it would be pretty hard to put a robot. You gotta think about the pursuit of the technology, manufacturing it, and maintaining it all of those go into the cost analysis.
Its pretty much what I would want from this world. Everyone gets a set amount of money that they can survive healthily on, and any extra work in more intellectual pursuits would get them extra money if they so desire. Since the robots are doing all the mundane shit.
imo this wouldn't work well. It curbs personal ambition. Definitely state funded things like health care, transportation, and education but just giving people money to do with as they see fit causes problems.
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I'm gonna root for Germany from here on.
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you... you monster...
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Going to a wedding rehearsal in a few hours. Best friend from high school is getting married.
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I'm gonna root for Germany from here on.
"Here’s a remarkable stat about Mario Gomez* - he’s only been in possession of the ball for 22 seconds in the tournament so far. He’s scored three times."
*goalmez
well im not actually sure how genuinely phenomenal that stat is but he's def man of the tournament so far (sorry sheva you a great but i dont think you and thymoshuk can carry ukraine to the finals on your poor old back)
(http://i.minus.com/iYEOtRUpEzPoj.gif)
you... you monster...
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/h9.abload.de/img/schweinstylinuzsz.jpeg)
EDIT lmao just saw this:
(http://www.tiltbuster.com/mrquicksilver/Images/mg.jpg)
they see me rollin.....they hatin.......
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well im not actually sure how genuinely phenomenal that stat is but he's def man of the tournament so far
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article880711.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/146218691.jpeg)
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??? ??? ??? ? Marty Baureis? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
:)
EDIT: Ugh, Chinese characters don't show up on here nvm.N? h?o. W?de y?ngwén míngzì shì Marty Baureis. W?de zh?ngwén míngzì xi?oh?. W? xué zh?ngwén zài dàxué. B?yuè shì w?de èr gè nián. W? juéde zh?ngwén bù nán. Su?rán zh?ngwén y?u hànzì, d?n shì h?n róngyì. Xièxiè, xièxiè. Zàijiàn!
ugh tones don't show up either.
Also, to those that talked about going to China...I'm jealous! I'm gonna go in the future but next summer I'm going to Sicily for my school's archaeological field school then maybe the summer after that hit up China, if I have the money. If not I could always use student loans because it's for school and I'd get credits.
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??? ??? ??? ? Marty Baureis? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
:)​
:-X
New Game.. Secret..http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83306 (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83306)
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article880711.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/146218691.jpeg)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2012/6/16/1339873952055/Russia-v-Greece-008.jpeg)
you were saying
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futbol
sports
bah
I was a groomsman for the first time in my life. Being agnostic it was kind of awkward in the church for me. also,, jet black tuxedos + 3 underlayers, + under comfortable shoes + 90 plus weather = fuck shit
best high school friend (groom) and other good high school (other groomsman) friend kept nudging me mildly about being the only of our trio not married. i struggled in my ability to explain that I had no plans to marry and that I probably never would with out seemingly like a jerk
Other than that it was actually prtty awesome if only because I got to see people I cared about but hadn't been able to really communicate with in 8 years and reconnect.
anyway fuck I'm to sleepyto go up stairs to reach my bed somone carry me
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I hate weddings. Unless they're more of a celebration and not two people just kind of publically masturbating about their union like the whole world has a personal stake in your relationship. Its really vain to me and imo devalues the whole thing.
The second to last wedding I went to was like that. They were 18 and one was my cousin and the groom's best man started bawling like a fucking baby while giving his speech and it was so awful. My other cousin is a year older than me and his was pretty cool. They had an open bar and that side of the family is way less dramatic and corny.
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f yeah
http://doktormartini.tumblr.com/post/25336205367/food-log-for-today
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There are hundreds if not thousands of mullet swimming all around this ship. They are literally surrounding this ship and I can't fish them. Fuck I hate these fish...
Also theres a ground loose on one of those bigass steel beamed light fixtures in the shipping yard and it keeps sparking off every ten to fifteen minutes like a small bomb going off right next to the gangway where I'm standing watch.
Its our mexican shipping yard so the dock workers took good care of it....They put a goddamn barrier to stop people from accidently driving over the huge ass puddle of water surrounding it but absoultely nothing to stop someone from walking right into it.
I guess thats part of my job now
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I hate those easy crush bottles so much. All they do is make it harder to reuse bottles so you have to keep buying more, which is worse for the environment. They also make a demonic noise when you accidently crush them in your bag.
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jojo's bizarre adventure: steel ball run has finished finally and there's new chapters for {JOJORION]
sbr was really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, fun! anime marc bolan vs cripled main hero that looks distantly like axl rose, hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! edit it's better than what i described here but if you saw that Ringo Roadagain picture singing yellow submarine then.... . . . . edit and {JOJORION] is slowly creeping towards the Twin Peaks realms
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also, whoever who doesn't like Japan's Tin Drum... or Art of Parties to be exact... IS MY WORST ENEMY!!!!!!
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just heads up/saying/ a warning. smiles smugly/self-content with eyes actually shut for the face, holy shit somebody beat those fucking front teeth into his throat choke on em fucker
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I was somewhat interested, even mildly excited about the upcoming Tomb Raider, still sort of am, but I was disappointed by this particular quote:
When people play Lara, they don’t really project themselves into the character [...] They’re more like ‘I want to protect her.’ There’s this sort of dynamic of ‘I’m going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her. [...] She’s definitely the hero but— you’re kind of like her helper. When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character.
Just, what the fuck is this shit? This better not be the way they are designing or writing for the game... with this sort of mentality. I hope this EXECUTIVE PRODUCER guy is just a moron that doesn't know what he's talking about. But I kind of doubt it.
Like I can even sort of fathom what this guy is saying, most non-casual gamers are male (I think, don't quote me on that). Marketing knowledge says most males aren't comfortable playing females. BUT THIS IS LARA GODDAMN FUCKING CROFT. She has been around forever... Its not like shes totally alien and that when we played her in her old games that we were totally detached from being her. I remember playing the first Tomb Raider, and when I did, I certainly DID NOT think I was her fucking "helper" fuck that shit. Nor would I play a game with that mentality in any game WHERE I AM DIRECTLY CONTROLLING THE CHARACTER. Is he saying I should consider myself some sort of weird puppet master? Like, what even is his thought process? How could he come to such a dumb-fuck conclusion?
EDIT: Decent article on the topic: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/12/the-new-lara-croft/
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http://tubedubber.com/#U9C6J2Bqj8Q:023g8N3IsMU:100:33:3:0:0
slavoj
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I was somewhat interested, even mildly excited about the upcoming Tomb Raider, still sort of am, but I was disappointed by this particular quote:
Just, what the fuck is this shit? This better not be the way they are designing or writing for the game... with this sort of mentality. I hope this EXECUTIVE PRODUCER guy is just a moron that doesn't know what he's talking about. But I kind of doubt it.
Like I can even sort of fathom what this guy is saying, most non-casual gamers are male (I think, don't quote me on that). Marketing knowledge says most males aren't comfortable playing females. BUT THIS IS LARA GODDAMN FUCKING CROFT. She has been around forever... Its not like shes totally alien and that when we played her in her old games that we were totally detached from being her. I remember playing the first Tomb Raider, and when I did, I certainly DID NOT think I was her fucking "helper" fuck that shit. Nor would I play a game with that mentality in any game WHERE I AM DIRECTLY CONTROLLING THE CHARACTER. Is he saying I should consider myself some sort of weird puppet master? Like, what even is his thought process? How could he come to such a dumb-fuck conclusion?
EDIT: Decent article on the topic: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/12/the-new-lara-croft/
it's not too uncommon for people involved in a game's creation to say shit that probably hampers the game's success. I stayed away from saints row 3 for a long time because of a gameplay video by a producer/developer or something where he plays unironically as a macho male-god and does nothing but blow stuff up and brutally decimate strippers: "you can do anything you wamnt, because you. are. the. BOSS!!! (and this is why u should play my game :) )"
but concerning the new tomb raider, I wasn't really looking forward to that game. "we're reinventing the franchise". why? can you think of any reason? there's money in it obviously, and this gives them the opportunity for new sequels (can't have her get too old! "milf" age is pushing it......)
that article does raise an interesting point I haven't even thought of: throughout all the games, there were never any scenes where Laura was bound, helpless in the hands of a male, or under the threat of sexual violence. not that I can think of, at least. certainly this places her above Samus, after the most recent Metroid undid allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of that work. if they're reinventing, at least they can't ruin what the character did have going for her...which unfortunately appears to be unique in big-budget games where you can't choose the character's gender.
edit wait uh there's NOLF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Operative:_No_One_Lives_Forever) which was always one of my favorite games but maybe Archer was tied up at some point but that's a pretty common activity for a spy!!!!
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I went to the wedding of my cousin and it was NOT "Public masturbating about the union" whatever that means. It was definitely a celebration and stuff and I enjoyed it. But now my gramps is sick a gain- in and our of the hospital- and they're going to be giving hospice care...
I've also been helping out with a few games and currently engaged in a NaGADeMo project and music in a few soundtracks; I've also got a call about a possible job in construction . ..
and anyone remember who wrote that song "warriors" with the grinding chains and guitar/bass riffs and stuff? I thought it was someone here. "Warriors.. come out and play" or some such partially intelligible lyrics.
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I didn't articulate it very well but pretty much the two people getting married (they're still young and not very intelligent) and most of the people there (grown and pretty much the reason the kids getting married aren't intelligent) are the sort of emotionally shallow and intellectually void kind of boring people you'd normally see just sitting there looking at baby pictures or wedding pictures for a very long time (too long) and being like "AWWWW AWWWW!!" over and over again.
People that watch notebook over and over and over again
people that consistantly post corny ass bullshit all over facebook because they've got some unrealistic perception of what love is supposed to be and they think it should actually be like some sort of hellish "the days of our lives" sense of perfection and regurgitation of a sheltered concept of life.
the same sort of people who keep spitting out kid after kid because they think they're supposed to and I'll bet my 401k are going to realize their ignorance in 8-10 more years (maybe longer depending on how dumb they are) and I being the bitter fucked up individual I am, will giggle on the inside while simultaniously feeling shitty for the children.
I don't know if you know people like that. But yeah thats what I'm talkin about.
Imo a wedding isn't supposed to be just about those two individual people. But the unification of two segregate family units. The family is there for those people and thats the reason for the unification but being obviously emotionally gross about the whole thing (to me) is like some sort of public masturbation.
Also that sounds like its off of the movie "the warriors"
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I feel the same way about funerals which is why I've pretty much started to refuse going to them? I went to my grandma's out of respect for her (she was a good woman) but any other ones I'll probably dodge.
People just make shit like that a dick measuring contest. Who is the saddest for them. Who is the happiest. What the fuck does it matter? To me it seems like alot of them are forcing that shit out. Maybe thats just my family though, prolly. I don't really react to such things like a normal person though which is another reason why I don't go. I've literally watched two people die and my composure doesn't change. At all. I think about them but its not the same as other people.
I like the way my aunt handled it though. She just died nearly a year ago now. What was left of us that weren't totally shitty all got together and had a BBQ. We drank and talked about her. Thats all she wanted.
Thats how that shit should be.
Edit: I should explain that. For me. Watching someone die isn't like THAT IS SO SAD ITS SO TERRIBLE! That part of the circumstance never really crosses my mind because its already a given and an inevitability. Its still just as hard if not harder for me to watch. But not because of sadness but because of an anger at myself for not being able to do a damn thing about it. So I had to leave last time before she actually stopped technically being alive and why I won't watch shit like that anymore.
I think thats why I don't like weddings like that. I see an inevitability I can't change and I'd rather just stay the fuck away from it. Which is probably just pessimistic. Because I can't tell for sure if those two people are the right combination of dumb and clingy to never realize their ignorant shit, it might actually work. Maybe its just that type of display of emotion and ignorance that just puts me off.
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can't have her get too old! "milf" age is pushing it......
hehehe
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http://tubedubber.com/#U9C6J2Bqj8Q:023g8N3IsMU:100:33:3:0:0
slavoj
fhahahahaha i probably found this way too amusing.
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we did a lot of tubedubber satire on twitter last night, among other things we learned that ron paul is gau's crazy dad http://tubedubber.com/#cOHlN5JWsw8:JAVx0wT7qV0:100:25:0:0:1
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I found a foreign object in my Dietz & Watson all-beef hot dog (I called them and I'm getting coupons) and my mom's boy friend of 8 or so years had a mild heart attack.
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describe foreign object
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describe foreign object
a plastic tube almost less then an inch.
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coupons from the same brand that brought you SMALL PLASTIC TUBE doesn't seem like a very good compensation
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ahahahahahahaha
dday
"WHAT YOU MEAN I CAN GET 1000 HOT DOGS FOR THE PRICE OF 750? FUCK NO I WONT TAKE YOU TO COURT! OF COURSE I'LL SIGN AN AGREEMENT! ehehehehe.....dumbasses"
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well I found it before it got in my mouth.
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but they do want the object since I do still have it.
my bad for the DP.
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I once, as a kid, almost choked on a hotdog. I was saved by my mom... who literally could see the thing sticking up in my mouth and pulled it out.
I no longer eat hotdogs. Though that particular incident has nothing to do with why I don't, I just think they are kind of nasty. With the exception of high quality Franks and Brats.
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we did a lot of tubedubber satire on twitter last night, among other things we learned that ron paul is gau's crazy dad http://tubedubber.com/#cOHlN5JWsw8:JAVx0wT7qV0:100:25:0:0:1
did I ever mention that I love you
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this site rules
http://tubedubber.com/#Kiqs_ZxDiXM:w8qrNMUQ2kc:100:50:0:0:1 (http://tubedubber.com/#Kiqs_ZxDiXM:w8qrNMUQ2kc:100:50:0:0:1)
http://tubedubber.com/#_KiStY1JiQY:8sMM2wHIltA:0:100:0:0:1
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http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/album/scarmen-dog-64
new release give like an hour for the second track to upload
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all these tubedubbers are really good, especially holy shit at the zlajov one. this alternate ff7 universe.../my mind is blown/man think about all the nuances you can get out of REAL LIFE with these game musics...
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26730020/arino_lemmings1.gif)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26730020/arino_lemmings2.gif)
reminder of the best show around
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26730020/arino_lemmings1.gif)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26730020/arino_lemmings2.gif)
reminder of the best show around
WTF did he do?
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i've been watching that recently. it's good stuff.
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What is it?
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What is it?
gamecenter CX. if you're familiar with top gear it's a similar premise - a sort of variety show where the host (Chief Arino, dude in the .gifs) tackles an old game, they do some comedy bits, and sometimes interview game creators. it's really light hearted and fun. lots of subbed eps are on youtube, worth a look.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m60za3FVko1qbma86o1_400.png)
no comment except http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVjfa0Alz5o
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last night i finally saw a dream. i hade made... artificial? cities, like uh my hometown but expanded and i travelled to another city (entirely made up). i was looking for something there. oh at the end of the dream, i made these ridicilous corporate skyscrapers with temple-like entrance/lobby hall, there were people there! the ridicilous high-life/capitalist architechture. i felt strangely hollow/there was this specific feeling i felt and i think it holds parallels to how i feel sometimes in real life... like not in negative way, i'm just reflecting. but i finally created new cities and forests and whatnot. i woke up not sure if its autumn or what and pretty much walked straight outisde to sunshine and just sat in confusion/this post-dream feeling for 10 minutes in sunshine enjoying the weather/nature (also a little more exceptional since it's midsummer's day so there's barely any car traffic outside -> it's quiet)
also diddy kong racing is really good soundtrack holy shit. i could talk more lenghtily about it but maybe some other time. i just used this post as a dream diary sorry.
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get the fuck on msn you turd
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get the fuck on msn you turd
ahahhaha fuck youuu!! i waited like the whole day yesterday!!!! SHRIEEEKKK!!! we're so done!!!!! SHRIIII~~IEEEEEEEEEKK!!! *+ vibrato at end, dada's screen splits, swears*
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My grandma's (on my dad's side) 80th birthday party it today.
I actually don't like her very much, but I'm going anyway.
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The fact I'm moving, having finished uni, ironically hoping to settle down with a fairly mundane job on average pay and pursue that which I studied as more of a hobby.
Also how much I miss what this place once was and how I have some measure of faith that its former glory can be somewhat restored, regardless of who or what it becomes about.
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what did you major in? that's how my sister felt, though luckily with her degree it seems like she can probably get any kind of business-related job rather than making a career as a marketing exec at johnson & johnson or whatever
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Film Production Technology. The uni weaseled their particular iteration of it into a BSc too, so apparently that's quite respectable. I don't really want a job in that industry any more for some reasons that will seem really stupid to most but are a really fucking big deal to me.
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which is? honestly just curious
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is this psyburn?
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Short version being that films are more about business now and not art, and I find that offensive; the attempts to pass shite like SOPA and PIPA and so on just drove it home for me and really pissed me off.
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wh hold up
are you spoonybard. or just pointing out he is still working on final fallacy (???!)
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Andrea_Pirlo_in_Juventus.jpg/450px-Andrea_Pirlo_in_Juventus.jpeg)
andrea pirlo alongside his equals
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Andrea_Pirlo_in_Juventus.jpg/450px-Andrea_Pirlo_in_Juventus.jpeg)
andrea pirlo alongside his equals
newer versions of IPB have like buttons for posts and i need them for psots like this
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There's an independent film being shot in my home town. My friend is one of the actors and she keeps posting updates about it on facebook. I find virtually everything about it hilarious (It's a very generic horror movie about a hospital haunted by a demon called "The Butcher," it stars "The nation's leading Johnny Depp impersonator" and it had an indiegogo campaign that made about 450 of the 5000 dollars they wanted to get.) My friend is apparently having the time of her life and is really excited about it but I think she's drastically overestimating how much of a building block in her acting career this is going to be.
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just thought of this... eww
(http://youtu.be/zJSFIPKnT5s)
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http://soundcloud.com/abeinspace/empty-shadow
Jazz
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was bored tried to put into words that I think I am and trying to cover every base possible.
I'm a direct-democratic individualist rational deterministic-consequentialist hopfully-realistic merit-technohumanist that likes the idea of globalism.
Do you not like Penn and Teller Kaworu?
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you are my enemy
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I'm a direct-democratic individualist rational deterministic-consequentialist hopfully-realistic merit-technohumanist that likes the idea of globalism.
Do you not like Penn and Teller ... ?
this is really really funny and idk if u will ever know why
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i mean you can just cut right to the chase and say you're on the spectrum dogg
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technology is great, i want to kiss it on the butt-lips and let it solve my problems
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you are my enemy
Sorry to hear read that.
this is really really funny and idk if u will ever know why
Actually its somewhat clear why you might find this funny. That doesn't really make it so.
technology is great, i want to kiss it on the butt-lips and let it solve my problems
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHlDfejCHkc
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Actually, I'm curious, I suspect that all of you have a different reasons that you consider me your philosophical/political enemy. Which part of "direct-democratic individualist rational deterministic-consequentialist hopfully-realistic merit-technohumanist that likes the idea of globalism" do you not like exactly? surely not all of them.
You guys aren't all "Anti-democratic collectivist anti-rational Deontological-Indeterminist apathetic-of-realism luddite Misanthrops" right?
EDIT: forgot "that likes the idea of autarchy"
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negative, i am a meat popsicle
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holy guacamole!!!!
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Also I like Penn and Teller but I do think they are hit or miss. That particular video that Kaworu linked was basically a miss because it targeted the weakest links in a pretty massive chain.
They also did a episode on second hand smoke that I thought was dumb.
But yeah, there are a lot of good episodes that I think have the right idea that they have done.
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negative, i am a meat popsicle
holy guacamole!!!!
You guys are no fun. :/ these are non-responses.
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You guys are no fun. :/ these are non-responses.
you, on the other hand are on a roll, keep going!
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"Anti-democratic collectivist anti-rational Deontological-Indeterminist apathetic-of-realism luddite Misanthrops"
ya that about sums me up TBQH
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you left off bi-curious though, but heteroflexible could work too
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I always knew you were collectivist (EDIT: you make that clear in most of your posts), but I'm a little surprised you consider yourself the rest of that.
you, on the other hand are on a roll, keep going!
*exhausted sigh, rolls eyes*
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i'm like a more laid-back and sexually adventurous ted kaczynski
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Don't think he was a collectivist. lol.
Anyway, I'm starting to realize maybe you don't like the very idea of having so many labels in one sentence. (yeah, Penn and Teller would feel the same).
Labels are just constructs. There is nothing inherently good or bad in their use.
Unless I'm off base completely. *shrugs*
You being vague and sarcastic and subtly insulting is a purposeful attempt to frustrate and annoy me. Its working. but not for the reasons you probably think.
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i am blood kropotkin. draw sword, knave
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Anarchist-communism, hmm, reading about it, aren't they at least pro-individualism?
Also I never said I was a capitalist by choice. The rest of my compound self-label is arguably neutral or irrelevant towards kropotkin's ideas (at least as a first glance skim read basis) with maybe the exception of "globalism" which he seems to not like in the least in terms of economics.
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Isn't the opposite of Globalism, Isolationism? Which I'm pretty sure Dietcoke/Barack condemned a particular BOOTSTRAPS fan for. Though he said that was because it was racist in its intent or something. Maybe you are neither? You guys are a isolationism/globalism moderate or something?
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opposites
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immediate full-communism, nothing less is acceptable
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i will paint the black flag red with the blood of the oppressors
MMMK imo
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immediate full-communism, nothing less is acceptable
As defined by who, Marx? geodude seems to be in the kropotkin camp. Is the effective difference being that one is authoritarian and the other is anti-authoritarian?
opposites
of what? me?
I have to go for a bit so I wont be responding for a while, feel free to discontinue your responses or even maybe doing the opposite and writing a wall of text (which I will read and try to comprehend to the best of my ability).
EDIT: or continue you short non-responses.
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Actually, I'm curious, I suspect that all of you have a different reasons that you consider me your philosophical/political enemy. Which part of "direct-democratic individualist rational deterministic-consequentialist hopfully-realistic merit-technohumanist that likes the idea of globalism" do you not like exactly? surely not all of them.
None of this means anything but my guess is that you should just say "I'm normal people".
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I'm normal people? As opposed to abnormal?
Probably have heard this response a lot: I wish that was the case.
Are all those beliefs that common or popular? or are you disregarding them as meaningless because they are labels?
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l.a.b.e.l.s. are l.i.b.e.l.
(i follow the teachings of b.l.o.o.d. m.o.s.e.s.)
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Isn't the opposite of Globalism, Isolationism? Which I'm pretty sure Dietcoke/Barack condemned a particular BOOTSTRAPS fan for. Though he said that was because it was racist in its intent or something. Maybe you are neither? You guys are a isolationism/globalism moderate or something?
huntington: clash of civilazations
friedman: it's a flat world after all
kaplan: travels into america's future
the coming anarchy
each of these articles have problems (esp huntington) but they outline it well enough
don't look at me like that I'm from a rural working class fam
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I'm normal people? As opposed to abnormal?
It depends on where you live, but in the West generally every country has a particular political spectrum. It's particularly narrow in the US. If you fall outside of the spectrum (socialists, communists, anarchists, and all their various sections, colors and flavors, are all considered to be outside of the spectrum in the West), you're considered abnormal at best, dangerous at worst.
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Belief in a possible direct-democracy isn't considered a typical belief in the US. Most people in the US think they are rational but they aren't. Basically no one in the US considers themselves determinists, consequentialists or deterministic-consequentialists. We have our fair share of luddites. And I don't think I actually know anyone that calls themselves a humanist of any sort, though if it were explained to them they'd probably say they were.
In the context of Globalism, there are a lot of different meanings that could be applied. Really though I'm effectively anti-patriotic/anti-nationalist to the point that I wish there weren't any individual countries or states at all or at least we should cease our competition with one-another and start viewing ourselves as a single coherent species working to advance itself rather than a bunch of separate bickering states.
I couldn't understand people who would be against individualism, especially on a personal rights level, anywhere at all, let alone the US.
I'm not saying I'm an complete oddball in the US though. But I'm probably a little off the average at least.
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In the context of Globalism, there are a lot of different meanings that could be applied. Really though I'm effectively anti-patriotic/anti-nationalist to the point that I wish there weren't any individual countries or states at all or at least we should cease our competition with one-another and start viewing ourselves as a single coherent species working to advance itself rather than a bunch of separate bickering states.
what this amounts to is that everyone who doesn't fit into our western (now global) idea of right and wrong should be steamrolled. this causes catastrophic global issues, eg terrorism
I was saying you should check out those articles if you want, they're not too too boring
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immediate full-communism, nothing less is acceptable
Communism is unacceptable, for being impossible and a bad idea in general
Anarchist-communism, hmm, reading about it, aren't they at least pro-individualism?
Also I never said I was a capitalist by choice. The rest of my compound self-label is arguably neutral or irrelevant towards kropotkin's ideas (at least as a first glance skim read basis) with maybe the exception of "globalism" which he seems to not like in the least in terms of economics.
Anarco-communism is an oxymoron. It's literally like dairy free milk. You can't have a monopoly on the use of force, a planned economy, absence of social classes, absence of property and all the other marxist inanities without a state to enforce them. People aren't ants.
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welcome to the forums!
afura since when are you in canada?
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I'm sad. People make up all those great theories about how everything should work. I like Rothbard a lot, but in the real world people will reward the most retarded ideas with complete power over their lives as long as whoever is spouting them makes them sound good. This is the reason every communist idealist will turn out to be a mass murdering psychopath. This is why I never believed obama would change anything. This is also why the free market won't fix it. People will put in power other people who will ruin everything while sitting on their comfy chairs inside their little air conditioned rooms.
We're fucked. Ted Kaczinsky was right. Things need to get a lot worse before they start to get better.
Also is dada any better or is he sick forever?
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o rly? tell me more about how you're a liberal & why you don't like marx on the internet, iam sure you've got some wonderful insights on the matter.
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I'm not a liberal, just browsed /pol/ too much and became insane. Even though it is true that communists are everywhere and trying to get me, it's a sad fact that I'm now able to see through their trickery while everyone else isn't obsessed with this and just play along nicely
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I'm just here to hear from another viewpoint about the current world issues. I don't even know why this matters, why it matters to know that the "free" stuff the government provides me isn't really free, and it never really belonged to the government. The people I know in real life just repeat whatever each other says in their little cool circles and eat, drink and love like everything is alright. Is everything alright? What I want to know is if I'll be ready when the bolsheviks come in looking for me, if I can be something better than an infinitesimal. I hope I am wrong. I hope I am just overreacting and being a little paranoid.
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Seriously now, why didn't anyone tell me that EVERYTHING was just wrong before? How long will it take for me to be assimilated into the masses and stop caring about anything?
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i'm an amoral nihilist. it really simplifies your life.
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I just worry about politics but don't do much besides vote and sometimes rant a little here and there in chats and facebook.
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Today I ate: 13 bananas, 3 mangoes, 1 medjool date, 1 head romaine lettuce, 1.5 pounds tomatoes, 1 Braeburn apple, 1/2 ounce chia seeds, 1/2 ounce hemp seeds, 3g spirulina, juice of half lemon, small piece of ginger.
2260cals, 18.3g fat, 550.7g carbs, 40.9g protein, 83.3g fiber.
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what this amounts to is that everyone who doesn't fit into our western (now global) idea of right and wrong should be steamrolled. this causes catastrophic global issues, eg terrorism
I was saying you should check out those articles if you want, they're not too too boring
I read some of that stuff. I'll get around to reading all of it. Anyway, I don't want a westernization of the world. Especially the religious influenced aspects of our culture. (I'm agnostic, and believe that all organized religions are pointless) I want a ceasing of nationalist attitudes that all countries seem to have. Our work shouldn't be parallel to each other, or be in competition, but should build off of each other. Maybe I'm being 'pie in the sky' but I think for instance, that more projects like the International Space Station should be attempted with out a "me too" attitude but a "we are advancing towards something as a species rather than a collection of states".
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I don't like Penn and Teller, I used to when I was like 15, and a dumb libertarian type, but then I decided to learn things and that particular brand of reactionary thinking didn't gel well with my adoption of the internationale as my theme tune.
Ultimately, I'm a hippy, just a cynical hippy. Like John Lennon, but without enough money to buy them funky glasses.
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i'm an amoral nihilist. it really simplifies your life.
ya i agree
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I read some of that stuff. I'll get around to reading all of it. Anyway, I don't want a westernization of the world. Especially the religious influenced aspects of our culture. (I'm agnostic, and believe that all organized religions are pointless) I want a ceasing of nationalist attitudes that all countries seem to have. Our work shouldn't be parallel to each other, or be in competition, but should build off of each other. Maybe I'm being 'pie in the sky' but I think for instance, that more projects like the International Space Station should be attempted with out a "me too" attitude but a "we are advancing towards something as a species rather than a collection of states".
The only problem with the new space program (from what I see) is that its been turned into some kind of commercialized corporate run entity. Yeah they're pretty much the only ones that could afford to do it now but......corporations.......in space.
They're gonna be the first ones to put a mcdonalds on the moon or trade orange county chopper t-shirts to martians so they can completely rip off their tech. I read in some shitty peoples magazine while I was on watch about how theres atleast 8-10 different celebreties that have already bought their way to the moon in like 2012-2013 and I hope they're first to get sucked up in a tractor beam and dissected or burn up in atmosphere fuck all those people.
the only good thing about it is maybe if they colonize the moon or some shit in like 15 years I can get some more schoolin and get a job runnin a space ship instead. Its my pipedream right now..
I like the idea of the UN I wish they were given more power. I think it would be better if nations worked together to facilitate all international economic and military efforts through a reformed version of the UN that was totally democratic. Not that psuedo democratic shit either where the country with the most money gets to do what it wants or everyone else suffers but international reps straight vote. Every country indoctrined into the organization gives an equal amount of resources. Richer countries money, tech, or food. Poorer bodies or natural resources. Most importantly any countries that choose to ignore the UN's position as international mediator or facilitator and starts to do inexcusable shit gets bombed to fucking hell.
that way countries could keep their own cultural and political standards without oppressive western influence or rule and eastern third worlders could get a fair chance at trade, industrialization, and conflict resolution without having to resort to complete insanity.
Also read WWZ its a really really good book. Zombie fetish shit aside it covers alot of past and present international relations, economical, and cultural problems and uses the medium as a kind of THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO ACTUALLY FIX ALOT OF SHIT which is honestly really convincing. I'm still kind of awestruck at how that dude covered all of those different points in such detail and from what I understand pretty damn accurately.
also I'm reading 1984 and animal farm and they're both awesome. I really like 1984 though. Its kind of gotten me to shy away from that neo-com theory that dietcoke and ryan were talkin about. I mean the idea is pretty admirable but people need to go buy their stupid shit, to think they're government doesn't have as much influence as it does or would, to think that they could one day be running industry in some manner and not some super regulated government outfit (which is alot harder to get into I think).
I dunno though I don't really pay much attention to specific ideologies either. I like the idea of government regulated business in the form of enforcing fair trade, education, health care, and transport. Like giving people the means and just sitting back and letting them do their own shit for better or worse.
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Also as far as faith goes. yeah we're pretty terrible but I think thats mostly because for a very long time and still now in a way the only people that were encouraged or could afford to travel internationally for any kind of remotely positive purposes were fucking missionaries who didn't/don't give a shit about the cultures they're subjecting themselves to and trade food/healthcare for bibles and jesus talk. So after years and years and years of that shit conversion was bound to follow suit.
Also yeah crusades but I don't think they covered much ground in south america, japan, africa or china. Also the muslim faith is just as bad if not worse. I never realized a fuckload of india was muslim or indonesia is almost entirely muslim as well as east asia and alot of west asia now since immigration. I don't really pay much attention though except for what I've seen and barely even know much about the crusades. I met this dude from battam who was younger than me that was talking about his two wives and girlfriend + kids. We were joking with him about it, dude couldn't believe I wasn't married.
They should do more stuff like this though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Ships)
I called about working on one of them but I didn't know it was entirely voluntary. I knew they had people work there for free as a sort of on the job training thing but I thought they still paid people with professional titles and I was really broke or I prolly still would have gone. Someone told me they do but officially they say they don't, I don't really care though I'd def do it for free.
If I ever get into enough wealth to where I can afford to do that for awhile then I plan on it as soon as I'm capable.
I wish they'd make the peacecorps more of a jobcorp thing too though. Where anyone could join instead of just college kids it kinds of limits itself alot that way I think.
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Also is dada any better or is he sick forever?
who is you
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ps: Welcome back, Medieve ! !
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I wish they'd make the peacecorps more of a jobcorp thing too though. Where anyone could join instead of just college kids it kinds of limits itself alot that way I think.
why? the program is essentially charity+a PR campaign, it'd make absolutely no sense for the US gov to start expanding the peace corps, hiring just anyone to dig wells or whatever in other countries.
It makes perfect sense, on the other hand, to keep the program small and restrict your applicants to the college educated...
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also I'm reading 1984 and animal farm and they're both awesome. I really like 1984 though. Its kind of gotten me to shy away from that neo-com theory that dietcoke and ryan were talkin about. I mean the idea is pretty admirable but people need to go buy their stupid shit, to think they're government doesn't have as much influence as it does or would, to think that they could one day be running industry in some manner and not some super regulated government outfit (which is alot harder to get into I think).
lol farren you're out of your fuckin' element dude, just enjoy the book
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http://rule34.paheal.net/user/blargsnarf
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jester btw
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Its not our Jester though right?
Wait... are you Jester? Damn it people always changing their names on here.I need a chart of the people who got their names changed.
edit: nvm found jester on the members list
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AHA You're Climbtree!
How do you know that's Jester BTW? Or are you just pointing out that they have the same name?
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it is Jester, he's also on WWOEC under the blargsnarf whatever name. Also that Fantastic Dizzy porn is amazing.
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lol those are recent, he's still at it huh?
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lmao @ "Again, please be vigilant and report any underage content, if it breaks our rules on the matter."
But I don't think he's still doing that, he's married and gone straight now.
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idk if he's still drawing. it seems like a decent amount of cartoon porn artists are married or have kids
my aunt's email she gives out is "loli elf ###" and she's married w/ a kid, and her husband does some mysterious "at home work" we never hear anything about
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it seems like a decent amount of cartoon porn artists are married or have kids
How awkward it must be when junior decides to have a look in daddy's bookmarks.
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Hey I like the Simpsons!
*clicks on daddy's Lisa Simpson folder
Now I REALLY Like the Simpsons!
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How awkward it must be when junior decides to have a look in daddy's bookmarks.
to this day i dont know if those bookmarks were actual;ly spyware or what
but i still blame them for my awk relationship wi dad
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I sadly chuckled a bit to read on the Wikipedia page for Japanese knotweed that it’s considered to be “one of the world’s 100 worst invasive species.” How backward is our society when we consider a FOOD to be an invasive species?! I tell you, I absolutely cringe every time I hear radio ads such as some recent ones in our parts touting new “advanced technology for ridding your lawn of those invasive dandelions.”
One of the many insights that really wakes up in your head as you study wild edibles is the undeniable fact that nature is trying to communicate with us at all times. No matter how awfully we treat her, she’s continually doing all she can to provide for us. People are hungry, yet there’s food literally everywhere. People are sick, yet there are cures sprouting up on their front lawns. So, give FoodUnderFoot a visit, as this info is important and surprisingly tasty!
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my aunt's email she gives out is "loli elf ###"
lol did u ever ask her about that?
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I think this makes Jester a better/more interesting person. I already liked Jester as a mod (or was he an admin?). I now wish I had gotten to know him better.
I'm going to be completely honest, I'd draw porn if I could draw well. (I can't) And have often thought that I'd might be motivated to improve my art skills if only to draw porn.
Ah well. I'm not generally the most motivated person.
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lol did u ever ask her about that?
I can't ask because if it turns out to be innocent I'll look like the weirdo. I hope the answer just appears someday. maybe we're just a family of ppl with weird emails
um it was purportedly some weird stuff, not in the bizarre fetish sense but in the disney characters doing grotesque things with poorly-drawn facial expressions sense
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some of the characters he chose were really inappropriate. the one i remember most were the rugrats. he did a lot on commission.
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I can't ask because if it turns out to be innocent I'll look like the weirdo. I hope the answer just appears someday. maybe we're just a family of ppl with weird emails
my family, me included, all have boring emails that are pretty much just our names.
except my lil sister who'd been using greatsoccerplayer92 or something before she went to college
my favorite thing is when i get an email from someone who has something wild like a fantasy, videogame, or anime reference in their email name because it reveals so much about them and i have to consciously refrain from googling it and getting my creep on.
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some of the characters he chose were really inappropriate. the one i remember most were the rugrats. he did a lot on commission.
holey macaroni!
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holey macaroni!
holy guacamole!!!!
Whats up with these holy <food> <one or more exclamation> responses.
(you've done it before these too)
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holy minestrone!
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also, the city what i live in
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/06/29/desperate-jobseeker-sets-himself-alight-outside-selly-oak-jobcentre-97319-31284847/
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Whats up with these holy <food> <one or more exclamation> responses.
(you've done it before these too)
never heard of these expressions before?
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I've heard them before. Just wondered why you use them... Ironically maybe?
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also, the city what i live in
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/06/29/desperate-jobseeker-sets-himself-alight-outside-selly-oak-jobcentre-97319-31284847/
Was immediately reminded of this.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/877955-naked-ex-postman-superglues-himself-to-desk-in-job-centre-protest
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Hey guys! *offers birthday cupcakes* Yes, that's right, HBTM! Anyway, I'd beemn rather busy lately, what wiht weddings and sick grandfathers and stuff. Check out the ad for Synthetic Odyssey in the ad section!
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Was immediately reminded of this.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/877955-naked-ex-postman-superglues-himself-to-desk-in-job-centre-protest
Your Pussy's Glued to a Building On Fire
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So that demon Theresa May has come up with the idea of changing the UK citizenship test to emphasise more elements like knowing the national anthem and a bunch of stories about white men throughout history just being so friggin cool. Apparently this is a helpful contribution to society. Why do people go in for this kind of crap? "People are almost encouraged to see what they can get out of the country rather than what they can contribute" said Fucker, highlighting the disgusting contradiction that the self-interested nature of people as free agents in the market is a beautiful thing but when it comes to poor migrants it's all about the primacy of the state. Opportunistic slimeballs, I wish them all nothing good.
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it's not like england's wealth was made on the backs of a migrant workforce or anything...
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So that demon Theresa May has come up with the idea of changing the UK citizenship test to emphasise more elements like knowing the national anthem and a bunch of stories about white men throughout history just being so friggin cool. Apparently this is a helpful contribution to society. Why do people go in for this kind of crap? "People are almost encouraged to see what they can get out of the country rather than what they can contribute"
Someone tell me how knowing the national anthem and getting a few history lessons improves your ability to contribute to the country. Hey, if they're gonna give you history classes, will that include their Nazi-like treatment of India?
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My younger brother's friend, Brad, came up behind me to look at my computer monitor over my shoulder (which he seems to do a lot, despite me telling him its very aggravating) and pointed at my bookmarks and asked me what they were.
I responded, partially dumbfounded "You are certainly a product of this place. Aren't you?" (This place being the boonies of southern Indiana) And then went on to explain to him that they were links that I saved on my computer so I could access websites later without just memorizing the address's. I still don't think he followed.
This is an 18 year old, who's middle class, that doesn't know what a bookmark is.
EDIT: Scratch that, pretty sure he's upper middle class.
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we have a government full of Charles Dickens characters (though even that may be far too modern for some of them) and like to hide behind the crumbling facade of national pride as a way to convince people that being british is the most important thing ever. You're not british until you point your pinky out while drinking tea and tell which of the identical faces belongs to which member of the monarchy(it's a trick question, all faces are the same so you can't pick them out, apart from Harry, because his Dad was most likely this wealthy doctor that Diana was having an affair with at the time, but ooops).
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apart from Harry, because his Dad was most likely this wealthy doctor that Diana was having an affair with at the time
default THIS IS NOT HOW RECESSIVE GENES WORK response
how could harry have inherited a gene that we know exists in both sides of the family ?? incredible !!
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i just wanted to say i miss you gw, i haven't had the internet in six months and won't likely for 3-4 more
take it sleazy 'til then
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every night before i go to sleep... i pray before my bed to god in my knees. then i burst into berserk cry because i don't look like young David Sylvian(and in Michael Jackson's wholebody suit from Rock With You's music video). i wrote this in facebook some time ago. just fyi... for your info or FUCK YOU IDIOT!!!!, it's up to you dear reader...
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never forget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4difPEQ8wA4
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MORI I LOVE YOU BUDDY
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some of the characters he chose were really inappropriate. the one i remember most were the rugrats. he did a lot on commission.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/yOInh.png)
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lmao http://undercoveranarchist.tumblr.com/post/26590229051/local-edl-leader-claimed-in-the-paper-the-other
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http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4321 (http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4321)
http://www.sinfest.net/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=2 (http://www.sinfest.net/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=2)
IDK, how much you guys follow Sinfest (You probably don't at all) But I've been lurking their forums and they have been exploding into arguments about feminism. We aren't the only ones apparrently. Then again, Sinfest's older comics could be argued to be somewhat... not-feminist... meaning that the author suddenly putting feminist stuff is making some of his readers rage on the forums in large bickering arguments. (and some quit reading, or at least claim to, impossible to actually verify)
I just thought it was interesting seeing a similarity. (I understand me posting this carries the risk of flooding this thread with sexism/feminism discussion, but it was too interesting for me not to share)
EDIT: is it just a coincidence or has this suddenly become a big topic on the internet? Like, I'm noticing more feminism/sexism stuff in almost all the sites I visit actually. The gaming news sites, various webcomics (Sinfest stands out), etc. Maybe this is just me and my section of the internet? The nerd dominated sections of hardcore video game players and the more motley group that are webcomic readers suddenly having a feminism scuffle?
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I didn't read any of the arguments, but I doubt they bear much similarity to the stuff that's been going on here
that comic you linked to is just a pretty dumb and forced joke that I'd actually take as post-feminism or anti-feminism if I wasn't taking your word for it that they're seriously trying to convey a feminist message. transforming the childish innocence of Charlie Brown's shyness and anxiety towards talking to a girl he has a crush on, into the serious, sexual, unfunny, and adult activity of stalking/getting a restraining order, seems like it's either mocking/downplaying feminism or purposefully trying to instigate an argument/gain notoriety. tho maybe I'm giving them too much credit
it's probably a big discussion in a lot of places because internet nerds are notoriously misogynistic, antisocial, and entitled
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Yeah Sinfest's actual comedy has been going down the drain for a long while now. I still read it mostly as a habit and a mild bit of curiosity (plus its a short comic, it literally takes 3 seconds to read each one, except maybe the Sunday ones). I did not think the comic was funny either, but that wasn't the point. The cited comic is just a very recent example.
My point was that Sinfest IN GENERAL has been constantly bringing up feminism, as well as a bunch of other sites I read, very recently. and I can't help but wonder if feminism has merely just suddenly become the internet's current hot button issue. This has only been going on I'd say for maybe 6 months now. I've been on the internet a lot longer than that and rarely if ever saw a single mention of feminism until the discussions on salt and other various sites I visit.
Of course, I understand that it might just be because of the section of the internet that I tend to dwell in a lot that I might merely perceive this but it not actually being true. I know its not because I've been seeking it out, because I've still checked most of the same websites for years anyway. I really ought to push myself into new sites though because some of them are kind of really shitty now *cough*Kotaku*cough* and I only check them because of habit.
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i cannot imagine anything worse than an anime-style webcomic forum argument about feminism
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I can thing of a couple of worse things but they all fit into the category of anime-style webcomic forum arguments.
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I dunno, I remember lots of gaiaonline threads about feminism back in like 2004 when the term feminazi was really gaining popularity
I looked at SA once a month or two ago and just about everyone had something about transgender or cisgender in their user titles (pro and anti somehow), and there was an undecipherable fyad "goldmine" thread about being transgender and all the metahumor involved in that. and some sort of comparison to the word faggot, with the understanding that it is an invaluable part of their language that will never be surrendered no matter how much the looters and swindlers try and make them give it up
there's probably worse/maybe there is a trend but I don't know what it means if there is
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There's been a prettybig rise in awareness of sexism in geek culture within the past year. DC Comics really set it off with their appauling Red Hood and Catwoman comics last year. Also Arkham City came (rightfully) under attack due to the fact that Catwoman or Harley are called a bitch in about fifty thousand lines of dialogue. Escher Girls (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/) has become the daily go-to blog for many in the comics industry since it started, and also Feminist Frequency has really helped show what kinda fucked up knuckle dragging apes the male gaming community is. (http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/07/image-based-harassment-and-visual-misogyny/)
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i cannot imagine anything worse than an anime-style webcomic forum argument about feminism
yeah, at least WE'RE Salt World. we've got standards.
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reading http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0 (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0) this thread i made five years ago.
the story in the op was entirely fabricated but i am trying to figure out if the people who posted in it (how few i remember!) were genuine in their amusement or if there was some irc thing like "come post in the thread where gb is a dick." for some posts, it is hard to tell whether or not the poster believed the story in the first place.
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the argument that there's been a rise in awareness is an interesting one to make because it seems sort of difficult to notice really long-term developments. although when you really look at it, it's hardly long-term because the modern, online incarnation of "geek culture" has only been around for a few decades at best. as a mainstream thing even less.
but then again, I also remember arguing not so long ago that a recent increase in awareness on diseases like anorexia and bulimia has helped recalibrate what society thinks of as the "perfect female body" (or even that there should be such a standard at all). of course, it's only small steps, but who knows, we might be seeing the beginning of feminism as a mainstream progressive issue much like civil rights in the 60s and LGBT rights more recently. that would be nice, because in my view it's thus far had the least basic degree of understanding in society, out of all major forms of oppression.
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I think it probably has been getting more attention in the particular area of popular culture which a lot of us orbit. Not the same websites, necessarily, but ones we are all aware of or which serve the same purpose. A lot of the backlash is really disgusting, but maybe it isn't a bad thing that it is being unearthed. Like you know, excreting the deep set toxins, puss and gunk through exercise - on a group level; some people can't be helped, but others can. These places aren't hubs of social progress, but maybe there's something to be said for individuals who are intelligent entering into those places with some good information and a better read perspective.
I don't know why, but maybe it's got something to do with more women becoming involved in the kinds of subcultures that men used to be predominant in, like video games or just obsessive pop culture stuff in general - tv shows, etc. So then the dissenting opinions get raised more often than they would have before, the issue is raised rather than remaining unaddressed, and suddenly the treehouse isn't as forgiving. I don't know if this is right - it seems really complicated and impossible to make some glib generalization about it like 'oh, it's the internet that did it' without having some information at hand but it sounds like an interesting topic worth looking into. This doesn't seem to have escalated into a mainstream thing yet, if it will, but yes it does seem like something is happening and while it isn't fun I think it is probably going to be a good thing.
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reading http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0 (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0) this thread i made five years ago.
the story in the op was entirely fabricated but i am trying to figure out if the people who posted in it (how few i remember!) were genuine in their amusement or if there was some irc thing like "come post in the thread where gb is a dick." for some posts, it is hard to tell whether or not the poster believed the story in the first place.
i remember it every now and then and laugh. it was a good story
also wonderful is
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/spokkerjones~12-26-04_81.gif)
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warn: 50%
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A lot of the backlash is really disgusting, but maybe it isn't a bad thing that it is being unearthed.
Maybe backlash is better than apathy, because at least then the message is getting through.
I don't know why, but maybe it's got something to do with more women becoming involved in the kinds of subcultures that men used to be predominant in, like video games or just obsessive pop culture stuff in general - tv shows, etc. So then the dissenting opinions get raised more often than they would have before, the issue is raised rather than remaining unaddressed, and suddenly the treehouse isn't as forgiving. I don't know if this is right - it seems really complicated and impossible to make some glib generalization about it like 'oh, it's the internet that did it' without having some information at hand but it sounds like an interesting topic worth looking into. This doesn't seem to have escalated into a mainstream thing yet, if it will, but yes it does seem like something is happening and while it isn't fun I think it is probably going to be a good thing.
Exactly. It's easy to be myopic in this regard, and unfairly ascribe what one sees to a general sentiment. Maybe nothing is happening except in a few subcultures that we happen to be active in. I can sort of get why feminism takes so incredibly long to become a mainstream issue (although I'm sure it eventually will). It's more complicated than something like racism or segregation or LGBT rights, and everybody thinks they're already doing everything right. Additionally, the right has done a pretty good job tainting the word "feminism".
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this reminds me of that guy with his own religion or something.
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reading http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0 (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=66270.0) this thread i made five years ago.
the story in the op was entirely fabricated but i am trying to figure out if the people who posted in it (how few i remember!) were genuine in their amusement or if there was some irc thing like "come post in the thread where gb is a dick." for some posts, it is hard to tell whether or not the poster believed the story in the first place.
yeah I think people were being genuine. maybe some people were skeptical, but you don't need to be fully convinced of something in order to be sincerely amused by it. this is the second time you've revealed the story is made up btw
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So, I've been gone for a few years. Er...why, Salt?
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Er...why, Salt?
Staff forum in-joke by gz that became an actual Thing after it was decided that we don't really have much to do with gaming anymore, so we need a more neutral name. It was voted on by the members.
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dafuq
http://blameaspartame.tumblr.com/
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Is this salt related? or is the source of that site very unsalty?
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looks like some guy who blogs stuff that could have been posted here/could been mark's avatar or ryan's sig, but is unrelated
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Staff forum in-joke by gz that became an actual Thing after it was decided that we don't really have much to do with gaming anymore, so we need a more neutral name. It was voted on by the members.
was that ever voted on? i thought we had like 175 different suggestions but like two people said saltw so we just went with that?
i mainly ask because i remember we had this topic and i had some AWESOME SUGGESTIONS that i wanted to spam inappropriately in the other topic, but i couldn't find the topic and now i'm just humiliating myself as my early onset dementia is revealed aaaaaaaaa
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Yeah I don't remember an actual VOTE and shit, or wait maybe a vague recollection of like a FORUM POLL TEN VOTES HOORAY or some shit.
what is a salt
gaymingw.net lol
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i think blameaspertame is a twitter dude but i forget which one
also yeah we did vote on the name, but idk which topic it was in because there were like a thousand topics about this. i think there was actually more than one poll even.
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was that ever voted on? i thought we had like 175 different suggestions but like two people said saltw so we just went with that?
i mainly ask because i remember we had this topic and i had some AWESOME SUGGESTIONS that i wanted to spam inappropriately in the other topic, but i couldn't find the topic and now i'm just humiliating myself as my early onset dementia is revealed aaaaaaaaa
There was a poll with a few "final" suggestions that people liked the most I think, based on nominations. I actually spent quite a few posts trying to convince people to just keep Gaming World or to go with something I suggested. Then I think there were some complaints(mostly from me) about missing poll options and a new one was started later on. It was a pretty messy business.
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There was a poll with a few "final" suggestions that people liked the most I think, based on nominations. I actually spent quite a few posts trying to convince people to just keep Gaming World or to go with something I suggested. Then I think there were some complaints(mostly from me) about missing poll options and a new one was started later on. It was a pretty messy business.
yeah iirc the whole poll process was horribly fucked
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Democracy has failed!
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http://dreamrabbit.tumblr.com/post/26721558971/misandry-doesnt-exist-said-the-angry-12-year-old
MISANDRY IS REAL (had to link to a reply since luckily this guy deleted his tumblr)
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a lot of people were suggesting names that had something to do with slugs, toads, dog barks, puke/cuts, puss, moss, and slime mold but all of those suggestions were taken as jokes for some reason
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we just weren't ready to visit the Slime Zone just yet. the time wasn't right.
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i'm currently living in the slime zone. it's not bad, sometimes slime gets in my keyboard, and sometimes large sentient slimes eat my armor+weapons.
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Hey, reading depressing things about the climate. I'm honestly starting to think we are just all fucked. Doomed. End is nigh and all that.
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http://dreamrabbit.tumblr.com/post/26721558971/misandry-doesnt-exist-said-the-angry-12-year-old
MISANDRY IS REAL (had to link to a reply since luckily this guy deleted his tumblr)
Wow, what a dumb kid.
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Hey, reading depressing things about the climate. I'm honestly starting to think we are just all fucked. Doomed. End is nigh and all that.
watch food, inc. next
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Wow, what a dumb kid.
dumb doesn't even cover it, i'd go with more along the lines of dangerous
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i just bought my first model train...i don't have the money for tracks yet tho lol...but i found a bullet train on ebay for a significantly reduced price (because it was run once and the guy was taking best offers) so i couldn't wait around until i had the money for everything at once
once i get the track and train sorted out it'll be time to start building GHOST ZONE...
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Hey, reading depressing things about the climate. I'm honestly starting to think we are just all fucked. Doomed. End is nigh and all that.
It's important to keep believing that something can be done. Otherwise you have nothing to do to try and prevent it.
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Yeah, something probably can be done. But is it within our technological grasp/can it be prevented through 'political' change. (that latter one seems less likely than the former)
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dumb doesn't even cover it, i'd go with more along the lines of dangerous
Yeah, definitely. The kid was playing off of somebody experiencing a rational fear. The other day I was walking alone at night and I really thought this creepy looking guy was following me as he was walking pretty close behind me and was taking the same shortcuts that I was, and I got freaked out. It turned out he was just going in a similar direction but it was still enough to get my heart pounding. The fact that someone would intentionally play off of somebody thinking they're being followed just to freak them out is a really shitty and sort of antisocial thing to do. I was just saying that his justification of "You think I'm dangerous?! That offends me so I'm going to try to freak you out and prove you right!" was stupid and is devoid of any sort of logic.
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more people should be like me and feel super awkward if they've been walking behind a stranger for more than a block.
I like to think that people in general feel this way, because a lot of people I've talked to have agreed with this sentiment, but then I remember that there is an internet full of people who think that the kid handled that situation correctly and didn't even bother to consider that he was more likely projecting his own insecurities onto the woman.
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This picture is pretty neat.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/4epHj.jpeg)
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i just bought my first model train...i don't have the money for tracks yet tho lol...but i found a bullet train on ebay for a significantly reduced price (because it was run once and the guy was taking best offers) so i couldn't wait around until i had the money for everything at once
once i get the track and train sorted out it'll be time to start building GHOST ZONE...
I'm actually building an N gauge layout (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6314.0).
I own 81ft of track but have yet to construct my baseboard (PhDs are hard work).
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i just read a book from the 80s about model trains and most of it was useless/irrelevant/out of date but the one important piece of advice it gave me is that i absolutely have to buy an engineers hat
like, it said this was not optional
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i have so many ideas for GHOST ZONE train that i need to sketch/plan out. this is gonna be the most bonkers setup ever.
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it also said that i had to make fake train tickets to give to visitors who come see my train
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moslems
this
http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83320.new#new
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I really need to get back to work on my game. What's salt world's stance on non-free games? lol.
(EDIT: BTW, I would never make a quick "cash grab" casual-fest game... like my dad seems to think I should do. It be more likely to lean towards nerdy with probably to much RPG-like options/variety and probably not enough game balancing and bug-fixing)
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I really need to get back to work on my game. What's salt world's stance on non-free games? lol.
(EDIT: BTW, I would never make a quick "cash grab" casual-fest game... like my dad seems to think I should do. It be more likely to lean towards nerdy with probably to much RPG-like options/variety and probably not enough game balancing and bug-fixing)
Nothing wrong with them? GZ and some of the TOG/Barkley people have been making "quick cash grab games" (though still qualitatively good) specifically to try and get some funding for more interesting projects.
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i'm in beijing. i went to beijing, yippee!
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Dude, I hate to tell you this.
I'm really sorry but...
...you missed the Olympics.
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i love you too faust
aint no party like an s-club party
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congrats jamie
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moslems
that's all i ever smoke
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aint no party like an s-club party
this
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meant to make a song for the EB fangame but released it as a single instead
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/supergarbage
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got picked up by the beijing police and they gave me tea. they were swell and gave me a free ride home. thanks police.
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got picked up by the beijing police and they gave me tea. they were swell and gave me a free ride home. thanks police.
your. first. day.
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was about to come and delete that post, but i guess that's out the window...i was lost and couldn't find my way back to the hostel, they gave me a ride home, nothing bad.
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post some fuckin pictures!!!
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no dont, just enjoy the trip right now and worry about that when you get home.
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Yeah, too often people take pictures but don't really EXPERIENCE their own trip as it happens because they are to preoccupied with taking pictures.
I generally have the opposite problem. I never remember to take a picture every once in a while.
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i just wanna see cuz i just bought my ticket for my chinatrip.
idk why taking pictures would get in the way of EXPERIENCING anything... pull your phone/camera out of your pocket, snap a pic, and then next time you're laptoppin' pop the SD card in and drag em into a dropbox or whatevs. wicked easy and hasn't ever gotten in the way of EXPERIENCE for my tripz
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also fun china fact: after the US raised its travel visa prices in the aftermath of 9/11, china raised theirs to the same price... except only for US citizens.
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I loved taking pictures during my stay in Japan, and had a lot of fun picking out the best ones and doing color correction etc., you can view them here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/sets/72157628909725679/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/msikma/sets/72157628909725679/) (actually haven't uploaded all of them yet, still about 50 more)
Also, nice to hear you got your ticket, hope you have a good time!
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I suppose if you just take quick snapshots. But, for instance, I've seen people have their camera on so often at some tourist locations that it seems like that is all they are doing is recording the stuff so they can go home and watch/look at their photo/film work rather than actually soak in their surrounds/admire the view/watch local event .
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Taking pictures is easy yeah, but fucking around and choosing the best ones then posting them takes a while, do that shit at home. Ignore the internet for now haha
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jamie please sample lots of cuisine so you can feed back.
this isn't a holiday buddy you need to remember your priorities if you want to go far in this company
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This is pretty embarrassing, but I'll mention it because it might be useful and also it all worked out in the end, anyway. I got tea house scammed...
I'd been in Beijing for like 2 hours and went for a walk up in the direction of Tiananmen, etc, and when I was walking back two women came up to me wanting to practice english, etc, said they were from a city in the south near Hong Kong and on holiday. I looked it up and there are a bunch of variations on this story, but the gist will be "hi can we practice english with you, and would you like to get a drink of tea or something?".
Anyway, I was feeliing gullible and open, I guess, so I talked to them for a while then they asked if we could get a drink and I said sure so we went to a teahouse. Did the whole ceremony thing - I've got no idea if it was a good or bad one, obviously, probably bullshit? I was just kind of bemused by the whole thing and trying to be friendly. So I sat and talked crap with them for a while then made up a reason to get going cos we were running out of small talk (they probably were finished with me and wanted to move on). So the bill was supposedly 290 yuan - which yeah, high, but I knew that places were going to rip me off to an extent so I figured, it's my first day, I'll be more careful after this. I checked my statement later and the place had charged me 1650 yuan, which is about £160 or $220. Bonkers!
I'm a dummy for falling for it, but I had read before coming that while some people are scammers there are legitimately people who just want to practice english with you. I'm gonna operate on the assumption strangers in the street are bad news now. So...yeah! Very embarrassing and worrying. I kind of needed that money!
Which is okay, because I got most of it back! Once I realised what had happened I went to find the place again - it's on Qianmen street in the Xuanwu district, a big shopping area, plenty of tourists. Once I found it, I went to get a police officer. It took a while, cos my mandarin is almost non-existent, but there was a really helpful lady who accompanied us back down to the place and translated. They seemed to know what was up, cos this scam has been common for years. After a couple of minutes, like 7 other officers showed up and we all went into the place together. I had to explain myself a little, cos the police weren't instantly on my side, but after a couple of minutes they had worked something out (a lot of shouting down the hall between the police and the manager), and I got 1350 back. I figured that was fine, and really this was all kind of fun in a way, especially the getting it back part. I rode down the street in the front of a police buggy.
I've never really been screwed over like that before, which I thought meant I knew how to avoid these kind of things but apparently it just means I'm an easy target! This is my first trip to a place I'm REALLY not familiar with,so...I got approached again by some other women while I was on my way to the police, too, so this probably happens all the time in these kind of tourist heavy areas. Watch it! Bad guys!
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Actually I got ripped off by one of a group of young Indian girls in Paris last month, too. They wanted a donation to some kind of deafness foundation (well, a fake one) and I said I'd give them 2 euro but I only had a 20 so she gave me changed but it was in singapore dollars which look the same colour as the corresponding euro bills so it took me a couple of seconds and she had run off. I ran after her and got it back but dang, I need to wise up.
I will be taking some pictures but I need to get some batteries for my camera, the ones I have don't work for some reason. Still got another 19 days. Haven't actually seen much nice stuff yet, but plenty dank stuff.
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Watch it! Bad guys!
that's why you gotta just walk around with cash, carrying yr card around is a little risky because if someone snatches yr wallet then you're fucked
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maybe im an enormous prick or something but i am not charitable or patient with ppl when i'm out of my element. ive gotten robbed at gunpoint before and since then i don't really trust strangers at all when i'm traveling and the interaction isn't on my terms.
plus i get a lot of practice being rude at home because the city is filled with people canvasing trying to approach you to send money to the ACLU, children in africa, or whatever and you've just gotta blow by them with a NO THANKS and not engage at all unless you want to spend 10 minutes getting a guilt trip on why 5 dollars a month is no big deal.
husslas always be on they grind, keep yr dick on hard and dont get caught slippin
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oh yeah, glasgow has those kinds of groups too and i have had to learn to give people the brush off now, too, after a few of those guilt trips. i guess just cos i'm here alone and i wasn't really doing anything i thought why not, maybe that's how people do things here. like at the airport i got approached by a lot of guys offering taxi rides and i thought i guess this is how they do things but then one of them tried to lead me away from the taxi rank and down some dark stairs and i realised no, that isn't how they do things, if people are coming up to you getting in your face, that isn't how things are done no matter where you are. well, this is what i'm realising now. i figure i'll entertain the schoolkids and stuff that come up to me wanting pictures if that happens again, but stay outta my way!!
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do u not know anyone there at all??
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Nope.
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that stinks jamie but I probably wouldn't have got the money back
i figure i'll entertain the schoolkids and stuff that come up to me wanting pictures
watch your pockets
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yeah i felt pretty defeated about it for a few hours then realised i was walking around hating the place and worrying. seeing how the police and that woman helped me makes me feel more warmly to the place again. plus i really can't afford to be kissing hundreds of pounds goodbye, but regardless i just can't really get my head straight if i don't try and do something when things like this happen. it's not a good feeling at all. everyone becomes an enemy.
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I don't think it would have even occurred to me that I could go to the police and get my money back. I'm working with a police oversight group right now and my opinion of the police is lower than ever
also I noticed a lot of the time around these parts, canvassers and the like make fun of you or say something rude if you blow them off but I'm pretty good at looking oblivious/hard of hearing
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you doin' a copwatch?
also I noticed a lot of the time around these parts, canvassers and the like make fun of you or say something rude if you blow them off but I'm pretty good at looking oblivious/hard of hearing
ya sometimes they talk shit, generally you don't see them more than once because if being blown off gets to them like that then they're not really cut out for that kind of bullshit.
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petitioners are easy to blow off too: "i'm not a <state> resident" or if you're feelin' saucy "i'm a convicted felon"
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haha, would the felon thing make you ineligible? i suppose it doesn't really matter, it'd stump em.
about getting the police - i just felt like if i went in there with some kind of police then they would see that i was gonna make a big deal about the whole thing. i looked it up and apparently a whiff of police is usually enough to get your money back. i don't get the impression many tourists go back to get their money.
how do you get involved with a police oversight group? that sounds like a good thing to be involved in.
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yeah that's pretty good, I'm gonna try the felon thing sometime!
a professor of mine knew I was interested in the social side of my field and he hooked me up. I'm not sure how else you could get involved, other than hearing about the job and going for it. the other applicants for my position were majoring in something geography-related, and my boss has a degree in investigative journalism.
you doin' a copwatch?
nah this is a little different, outwardly more of a neutral stance. I'm on the office side of things, I just do GIS stuff with the information other people gather. trying to get some sort of website up that has interactive maps w/ popup data about police fatal shootings and different types of abuse, so that anyone can have easy access to the info. it's pretty absurd that oakland is the only city in the US that has anything like it, and that one's pretty outdated. every map I've made so far shows an obvious correlation to race if it exists, as well as a ton of other info that I'd think would be pretty valuable to the public
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Nope.
Man that's awesome, just up and go to Beijing. How long are you planning on being there? Are you traveling around or just staying in the city?
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petitioners are easy to blow off too: "i'm not a <state> resident" or if you're feelin' saucy "i'm a convicted felon"
I think I signed about a hundred anti-nuclear petitions when I was in Japan.
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The Atlas Shat'd, imagine the cover of the book but instead holding the globe or whatever it's in the same position poopin!! there's a slimey ündefined golden shit coming outta his buttahole... don't mind me...
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I think I signed about a hundred anti-nuclear petitions when I was in Japan.
i was referring more specifically to ballot initiative signature collectors. special interest groups contract out these shitty companies that pay people per signature to just try and get every schmuck on the street to sign on. this is what democracy looks like!
if you can't vote, your signature ain't worth shit to them so....
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Name: Michiel
Birthdate: 30/07/87
Location: Full Communism
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did you sign before or after miyazaki and sakamoto (wow what a collab that would be)
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Name: Michiel
Birthdate: 30/07/87
Location: Full Communism
europeans spell micheal weird
& yr dates are all fuck'd
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dd/mm/yyyy is the most sensible duh
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watever, and i'm sure the metric system is sooooooo much better than the imperial
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europeans spell micheal weird
& yr dates are all fuck'd
That's just the Dutch version. There's also Michel (French), Miguel (Spanish), and I bet about two dozen more.
There's only two ways dates should be, and that's either in ascending order of length of the time unit or descending. mm/dd/yyyy is clearly insane.
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I think we Americans write it out that way because its also normal to write "November 23rd" so we just applied it to the purely numerical way of stating a date and appended the year section afterwards. Its less logical and more, "hey, this how we've always done it, lets just stick to it"
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Actually I got ripped off by one of a group of young Indian girls in Paris last month, too. They wanted a donation to some kind of deafness foundation (well, a fake one) and I said I'd give them 2 euro but I only had a 20 so she gave me changed but it was in singapore dollars which look the same colour as the corresponding euro bills so it took me a couple of seconds and she had run off. I ran after her and got it back but dang, I need to wise up.
I will be taking some pictures but I need to get some batteries for my camera, the ones I have don't work for some reason. Still got another 19 days. Haven't actually seen much nice stuff yet, but plenty dank stuff.
There are LEGIONS of these people outside la galleries lafayette. I'm only really charitable to people I know (via justgiving etc). I don't care what you stand for if you approach me in the street and there isn't a fire then you get the death stare.
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Steamer trunks, which are sometimes referred to as flat-tops, first appeared in the late 1870s, although the greater bulk of them date from the 1880-1920 period. They are distinguished by either their flat or slightly-curved tops and were usually covered in canvas, leather or patterned paper. There has been much debate and discourse on what these types of trunks are actually called. In some old catalogs, these trunks were called "packers", and the "steamer" trunk actually referred to a trunk that is often called a cabin trunk. An orthodox name for this type of trunk would be a "packer" trunk, but since it has been widely called a steamer for so long, it is now a hallmark of this style.
Cabin trunks, which are sometimes called "true" steamer trunks, were today's equivalent of carry-on luggage. They were low-profiled and small enough to fit under the berths of trains or in the cabin of a steamer, hence their name. Most were built with flat-tops and had inner tray compartments to store the owner's valuables deemed too precious to keep stowed away in the main luggage train or berth. If made by a certain manufacturer, this trunk style can sell for higher amounts than an ordinary steamer trunk.
antiquers_with_attitude
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if it weren't for twitter, i'd never get to see judy blume talking about poop
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/wedemandhtml.com/tmp/bbc_bmi_calculator.png)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18770328
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26730020/bmi.png)
afrique represent
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Welp. Opposite direction here. I don't know my exact weight at the moment (our scale needs to be replaced), so I figured I was around 210. I got a BMI of 29.
And holy hell, why is Tonga and Micronesia so fat? And damn apparently I'm like them (err, Tonga at least) :P
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edit: nevermind, I don't want to show everyone how underweight I am
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(http://justin.tomatoland.org/ALBANIA_STRONG.png)
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I made this thing http://blog.deductivereasonable.com/post/27228715994/space-funeral-leg-horse-plush-sometimes-it
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did u sew it
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yes and i didn't hurt myself this time
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I like the vertebra a lot
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I like the vertebra a lot
thx i used a technique called "this happened accidentally due to poor hand sewing"
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the technique i used for the flaps of skin around the head is called "i meant to tuck those in but forgot and well it turned out better that way"
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i;m good at sewing
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ya, good job & nice dog
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Nice :) That is actually very good even though you're downplaying your SEWING SKILLS.
Also I just found out amazon.co.jp DOES ship to Europe. I was pretty sure they didn't. So I'll be BUYING STUFF.
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I just counted. I've got 39 currently active mosquito bites on my body.
edit
43. Do they eventually stop doing it so much?
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nope they keep comin. they're more attracted to vegetarians because they typically eat lots of fruits and vegetables, which makes em give off a nice smell for mosquitoes
you could eat lots of garlic
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That doesn't work and you'll smell like garlic, get an electric mosquito repellent unless you're a dirty hobo
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I read that they like the smell of some people more than other people, and my dad always gets attacked by them, too, when he goes to mosquito climes. oh well. i've been wearing mosquito bands but they obviously aren't doing anything.
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I just use Off! or some off-brand of Off! Always seemed to work pretty well.
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deep woods Off! is the best, but idk if you can get that in china
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also you're in china & everyone smells like garlic, so give it a shot!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVfPIhlZw4U
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I'm wondering if that interviewer had any idea of what he was talking about.
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I'm wondering if that interviewer had any idea of what he was talking about.
Nah, maybe if you're a Grandmaster but otherwise no. You need to perfectly envision the board with their exact piece setup and be able to instantly analyze difficult positions. I love playing chess and I recognize the words he's saying but there is no way you can really understand his points.
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Yeah I was the same way. I just wish there was some way you could see the interviewer's face because I have a feeling that would be just as entertaining as what he said.
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Question: Why are you for death penalty?
Zizek: Well because Sam Harris is alive
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that's a good friggin point
Sean: Do you have a soul mate?
Will: Define that.
Sean: Someone you can relate to, someone who opens things up for you.
Will: Sure, I got plenty.
Sean: Well, name them.
Will: Shakespeare, Nietzsche, Sam Harris
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holy shit the lightning outside my house is going crazy, every 1-3 seconds there is a VERY LOUD strikes. Its causing my dog to have a panic attack :(
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Watch out Warped, do not get ZAPPED!!!
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Its quieted down. my dog still has the shakes though :/
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http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. Complains about being taxed more while paying employees shit wages and earning off their backs.
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advice: don't use slurs
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using bitch as a verb here.
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yeah that's still horrible, don't do it
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go fuck yourself. I don't care. You're oversimplifying language.
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go fuck yourself. I don't care. You're oversimplifying language.
and you're spewing hateful language don't fucking do it we spent like 50 pages in this topic explaining this stop being a goddamn sexist idiot
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i think asking people to actually think about the social implications and consequences of language is the exact opposite of oversimplification
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No I think picking apart language out of context and forgetting that language evolves and changes as time goes on is oversimplifying language. Go fuck yourself both of you I'm not going to argue about this.
EDIT: I won't be reading or responding to any more responses about the language I choose to use.
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"bitch" hasn't lost its sexist connotations so sorry that's not gonna hold up
but you can go fuck YOURSELF for willingly be a sexist jerk lol
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i'm half glad you're not going to argue about this since it's well established that You Are Very Wrong, if only you could accept this...
the day a man decides that a certain word is no longer misogynist is the day i tear my own heart out in a fit of self-awareness
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I WON'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE HATEFUL BILE I CHOOSE TO SPEW SORRY GUYS
I'D RATHER JUST KEEP GOING ON INSTEAD OF EVEN CONSIDERING THE WORDS THAT ERUPT OUT OF MY PRIVILEGED MOUTH BECAUSE THIS LANGUAGE DOESN'T AFFECT ME AT ALL SO WHY SHOULD I CARE
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kill all men
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as always my tantou is ready and poised to make the final blow, should you give the word
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yo i always feel weird posting this but since some of you guys might have not read steel's book he wrote a bit about this exact deal:
There's been some controversy about my recent statement that I thought words like “bitch”, “cunt”, “abortion”, and “rape” were inappropriate in almost any context as insults. I'd like to clarify why, without resorting to claims of political correctness.
At the heart of all these words is gender, plain and simple. The first two apply to women, the last two are acts that, arguably, have more significance to women than men. So first off, there's an entire underlying queasiness that I think all men should feel when dropping a specific insult like that. It has nothing to do with legality or who it hurts; it's the same compulsion that should make us want to use gender-neutral language when it's available. Anyone who thinks gender-neutral language has to also Do Something doesn't understand the reason people use it. There's something kind of awful about choosing to use the word “freshmen” when you know you can say “first year college students” (arguments of length not withstanding) or “firemen” for “firefighter”. When ignorance is not an excuse, we all should feel some discomfort about the words we choose to use when we know better words exist. It's a bit like moral vegetarianism; the fact that we can live without killing an animal should discomfort us, however slightly, when we choose to do it anyways. Of course gender neutral language is a matter of switching words, where vegetarianism involves dramatic lifestyle and attitudinal switches, so the level of discomfort there is clearly one most people can live with. Yet I don't think you can excuse it when it comes to words; in that case, how absolutely lazy do you have to be to not want to change a few figures of speech (in my case, I believe it's unfathomably)?
There's also an issue of some saliency I think men ignore; there's no male equivalent for these words. The closest you can come is “prick” or “cock ”, both of which are not only also terms of endearment in some circles but are actually verbs in day to day life (prick your finger, cock a shotgun) which can't help but
subtract from the malevolence of the insult. You have to add the suggestion of homosexuality, with “cocksucker” to really get someone mad. There's something innately sexist about perpetuating the four words previously listed. Now, let's be fair; rape and abortion both have alternate meanings. The Rape of the Lock comes to mind, or the computer procedure of aborting, ignoring, failing which every nerd who's ever touched MS-DOS knows.
But my last point, and honestly my strongest one, is how often do we run into this as opposed to “I raped that guy at some video game” or “it was an abortion of a play”? In this day and time, it happens a lot. It's always some kind of exaggerated nerd bullshit, isn't it, and it belongs in the same lexicon that words like “pwned” or “ownage” or that other shit that labels you as a stupid motherfucking video game playing nerd.
Quite frankly, I'm tired of these words. I'm tired of ironic “niggers” and people just saying shit and then mumbling something about their First Amendment rights if you tell them to shut up. The First Amendment isn't there just so someone can fuck up and get away with it as the excuse. You SOUND stupid, which is the crux of my argument, when you use these words. It's like you don't have any other reason for you argument so you just throw in the First Amendment and expect everything to be peachy and dandy. I have the freedom of speech, big whoop! I could call anyone whatever the fuck I wanted to call them too. Who cares about the right to say them? You have the right to look like an absolute dumbass. You have the right to be an absolute dumbass. That's what your freedom of speech is going to lead to. Thanks for confirming. A lot of this was written from my obviously male perspective, but I have to say I also don't care to hear women use those words either. Most “reclamation” efforts, including, of course, “nigger”, I have no problem with while conversely I think they are actually big wastes of time. The effort spent complaining about blacks using nigger or women using bitch seems just as bad as the effort to justify it. If you can successfully reclaim a word, and “bitch” is actually almost there in my opinion, good for you, but I won't pretend I care much for it, or that I don't wince when it seems inappropriate. If you're on your period, why do you have to be a “bitch” today instead of just “in a shitty mood?" I get why you're acting like one but can't you just say you're not in the best of moods because you're getting that visit from Aunt Flo (Good God, do girls have the worst ways to describe their periods)? Does one really empower in any way? Or is it, as I've argued earlier, just because you're lazy and don't want to use a better or more correct word? Who knows? It's a subject of no interest to me. But I'm not going to pretend it doesn't make me wonder if women who say they're being a bitch today are necessarily aware of the social contexts of that word and are instead falling into the world of shit we call a patriarchy where she genuinely thinks she is being a bitch instead of just a grouchy woman. Let's not even touch on bitch as a sign of effeminacy.
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No I think picking apart language out of context and forgetting that language evolves and changes as time goes on is oversimplifying language. Go fuck yourself both of you I'm not going to argue about this.
EDIT: I won't be reading or responding to any more responses about the language I choose to use.
Yeah, please don't use that word, people don't like it when you do. It's just a basic request to respect other people's wishes, I don't see why your response is to say "go fuck yourself".
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Yeah, please don't use that word, people don't like it when you do. It's just a basic request to respect other people's wishes, I don't see why your response is to say "go fuck yourself".
It's the kind of reactionary bullshit extremism I have no time for. If you want to change things, changing the way people use the words, not changing the words they use is what you should focus on (btw most of the people my age learn these "hateful" words with outside of a hateful context).
I really resent being called hateful towards women, too. All my life I've preferred the company of women. My most meaningful and stimulating conversations have been with women, and no woman I know in real life - even the most ardent feminists I know - would pull this kind of reactionary bullshit to language without hateful intent.
But whatever; I'm deleting saltw from my bookmarks. I tend to come here when I'm not particularly emotionally stable, and I don't need people picking words out of my posts instead of responding to what I'm actually saying
Peace, assholes.
P.S. I really got my feelings hurt by this whole exchange, btw. I mean I legitimately got pushed to tears through this (like I said, I'm here because this I'm in a particularly dark place). It's bullying, and it's not okay.
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i really don't get this response. you say a word, someone NICELY tells you not to. you then tell them to FUCK THEMSELVES and get really angry. even in what you just posted you're still defending your right to use words that hurt others (while denying that they hurt at all, which hurts EVEN WORSE btw), then get upset that our words hurt you. after you said a ton of hurtful things and still aren't the least bit sorry about it. sorry if i'm having a hard time feeling like a bully here.
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all you had to do was say "sorry i won't use that word again" it's not that hard yikes
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even in what you just posted you're still defending your right to use words that hurt others (while denying that they hurt at all, which hurts EVEN WORSE btw), then get upset that our words hurt you.
but try not to equate these, because it's using slurs vs. telling someone not to do a bad thing. do you see the problem here?
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also the defense of BUT THE WOMEN *I* TALK TO ARE FEMINISTS AND THEY THINK IT'S OKAY doesn't change the fact that plenty of women DON'T think it's okay. people who use slurs LOVE to find the people the slur targets that aren't bothered by it to defend themselves when they totally ignore that they're still hurting other people. finding someone not hurt doesn't stop you from hurting others, the key is to not go around hurting others when it's as easy as not saying a word and apologizing if you do
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http://storify.com/GidgetNomates/a-big-thing-i-wrote-about-slurs-i-guass
here's a ton of tweets i wrote about this deal
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alec you're probably not gonna read this but if you do WE DON'T HATE YOU but the reaction you had to being told not to say hateful things is really bad and you need to not defend hateful words
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I'm still here (because I'm some sort of masochist or something), and I apologize for overreacting. I could try to defend myself further, but I know it won't help anything. If I keep coming back, I'll try to avoid using language that offends you on this forum.
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I'm glad you're apologizing. I know that it might seem to you like a really pointless thing for people to complain about, something that just doesn't seem like it means anything, just a pointless quibble. But this is one of those things where you just sort of have to suspend belief and go with what other people say, because it does matter to people. I don't always understand those requests either, but if people say it matters to them it's just a minor adjustment for me. Nice to see you decided to give it a try.
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yeah alec, bitch is a gender-charged word and it just shouldn't be used. it's not very much like "freshmen" because of its connotations. I know that's not how you were thinking of it, and that in most societies no one cares about it. but if you look at it from a different POV, it IS an offensive word and there alternatives for "complain" with a negative connotation. my favs are fuss and bellyache
imo you don't have to defend yourself, it's whatever, afaic it's water under the bridge
all you had to do was say "sorry i won't use that word again" it's not that hard yikes
has this ever happened with anyone anywhere? that's a rhetorical question but it's something worth thinking about
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That good to hear Alec. Although, Vellfire, I have one issue with the "not offending someone" thing that kind of came to mind. Namely, that I think Alec has the perception that very few people are offended by the term 'bitch' when used as a slur or in a negative context (or shakily, in any context at all).
If its the fact that its a slur I'd say that probably reasonable to think its always unacceptable, however, there are arguably offensive terms and things that I say but that only an extreme minority are offended by in the way that you are attacking them as a group. Such as "bible thumper", "basement dweller", "retard" and outside of direct insults, see: all curse words.
Also, (in response to Earlchip) using alternative terms DOES make you sound weaker. Its like saying "poop" instead of "shit". It sounds like (to most people) that you can't handle the term yourself when you use those alternative non-offensive words. Rather than merely try to not offend anyone around you.
I'm NOT saying that they are equal to the word "bitch". I'm saying many think that they are. I think that was Alec argument, rather than "I know some people so its ok" it more like "So few people are offended by this that to me it seems unreasonable to stop, because if I do, I shouldn't say any of the other things that I see as arguably more or less offensive in my mind but still 'ok'."
Many people, such as myself for most of my life, thought that the word 'bitch' was offensive merely because it was a "curse word" rather than a slur. And I always saw curse words as something I'd say when someone tells me I shouldn't. (as in, minor level of "stick it to authority") I think this perception comes FROM the fact that it can in fact be used negatively but outside of the context of being a slur, as Alec arguably used it as. Effectively making it "complain complain complain". I know that because the word has ties to being a slur against women that it suggests that the person using the word means 'You are complaining like a woman" but I honestly don't think this perception of the word is that common. The best argument against using it (other than the fact that in THIS SPECIFIC PLACE it offends people) is that other people who do think that way about the word bitch will be reinforced into their misogynistic ways by OVERHEARING someone say "bitch bitch bitch".
I'm honestly under the impression that at least 80% of people who use the word bitch in a non-anti-women way. I can't know what people are thinking, but I can can get a good idea by the way they say it, their body language, and in cases where I know them: their typical attitude and personality. And through out my life its always seemed this way. Then again, this is just vague memory of past instances of my life, so others probably have experienced different.
also I think a big reason people go on the offensive/extreme defensive (like Alec did) when you point out that they used a slur is that they perceive that you are pointing out a moral deficiency, specifically in a time when they had no actual intention to be morally deficient (yes, sometimes good people sometimes feel the need/urge to be morally deficient, schaden freud is an example, as is thievery, lying, etc.) So they perceive that you are essentially calling them a bad person and that they should feel bad. If they WERE trying to be "slickly" offensive/morally deficient then you wouldn't get such defensive reactions. You'd get agreeance, and maybe some malevolent laughter or "*shrug* don't care if I offend you, because I hate you." attitudes.
You could take the idea that this just means that 99% people are baby's that can't take moral criticism, but then what are you left with? It means that when people feel bad about something they said or did but its something they always took for granted they'll feel guilty for a moment and then realize they've always done this and just get angry and rebellious and perceive you as a 'nanny' figure. Basically "FUCK YOU AND THE HIGH HORSE YOU RODE ON" is their thought process.
Then comes the question: Have you ever HATED an individual? (Not asking if you do now, I mean ever) I have! (I no longer do) And if I could have gotten away with it I would have done everything in my power to hurt them (mostly high school bullies, but others as well), that includes slurs like bitch! Regardless of the social pressures telling me what was ok and what was not. Hell, let alone slurs, most people FANTASIZE ABOUT KILLING/TORTURING PEOPLE THEY HATE. Did this make me a bad person back then, being willing to stoop low to hurt someone? IDK. But I don't begrudge people who feel that way though because I comprehend the mindset that they have.
Before I close, I want to reassert that I agree that Alec shouldn't use the word bitch, especially here on these forums. These are just thoughts that come to mind when it comes to offending people in general.
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be careful of putting words in other ppls mouths
I'm honestly under the impression that at least 80% of people who use the word bitch in a non-anti-women way
the simple point is that this is impossible. it's always a misogynistic word. of course, that is not how the vast majority of people think of it, and it never occurs to them that the word they're using is legitimately offensive. that's a natural thing and no one should be blamed. but it's not the whole truth, and that's how you get conflicts like this
I think you're approaching relativism in that post
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Alec, don't feel you have to leave. Like you haven't suddenly become reviled or anything. Everyone makes mistakes, I've been corrected on various things before, I corrected Vell on spmething before, she's corrected me on numerous things, and so on and so on. An apology and attempt to refrain from using them again is an easy thing which cancels out all animosity from the offended party. The important thing is to realise that certain words offend people and because of this we shouldn'tuse them. No further reason should be expected beyond that they hurt people. Even so, words based on race, sexuality, or gender have some pretty strong reasons against using them.
I know the immediate reaction is to think "don't tell me what words I can use", but that's just pride and shit. If you objectively look at it, the amount of upset caused by using them completely overshadows whatever positivity comes from using unmoderated language.
Genuinely sorry to hear that you're pretty down at the momemt and that this discussion has upset you. You definitely shouldn't leave over this. SW is just maturing as a community concerning acceptible language, that's all.
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If its the fact that its a slur I'd say that probably reasonable to think its always unacceptable, however, there are arguably offensive terms and things that I say but that only an extreme minority are offended by in the way that you are attacking them as a group. Such as "bible thumper", "basement dweller", "retard" and outside of direct insults, see: all curse words.
i'm about to leave the house so i don't have time to reply to your whole post but it's not an "extreme minority" that is offended by retard and it's one of the words you absolutely should not use ok??? like, it's really jarring to see it thrown in with "bible thumper" and "basement dweller", not even vaguely in the same class of words
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FUCK disregard most of whar I just said, took ages to type on phone, you already did the rifht thing way before I hit submit.
Good for you Alec. It takes a big person to realise certain things, especially if feeling down, so well done.
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i'm about to leave the house so i don't have time to reply to your whole post but it's not an "extreme minority" that is offended by retard and it's one of the words you absolutely should not use ok??? like, it's really jarring to see it thrown in with "bible thumper" and "basement dweller", not even vaguely in the same class of words
argh, ok. I should've said moron or idiot. But point still stands (thus far). When you call someone a retard they don't generally get offended because you are using a slur against mentally 'disabled' people (Which technically btw, idiot and moron are as well). They get offended because you are insulting their inteligence. in fact most people get offended because you are comparing them to a mentally 'disabled' person. (old point that I've brought up before comes to mind: retard, idiot, and moron all used to be regular medical terms. And the term "special" which was created in response to everyone using those words as insults, became an insult)
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argh, ok. I should've said moron or idiot. But point still stands (thus far). When you call someone a retard they don't generally get offended because you are using a slur against mentally 'disabled' people (Which technically btw, idiot and moron are as well). They get offended because you are insulting their inteligence. in fact most people get offended because you are comparing them to a mentally 'disabled' person. (old point that I've brought up before comes to mind: retard, idiot, and moron all used to be regular medical terms. And the term "special" which was created in response to everyone using those words as insults, became an insult)
that's why the person you CALLED a retard would be offended, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about mentally disabled people who you're comparing the person you're mad at to. i'll just refer you here: http://www.r-word.org/r-word-effects-of-the-word.aspx
idiot and moron have lost their connotations to mentally handicapped individuals, retard hasn't. please don't compare the two.
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no that was a good post faust!!
Also, (in response to Earlchip) using alternative terms DOES make you sound weaker. Its like saying "poop" instead of "shit". It sounds like (to most people) that you can't handle the term yourself when you use those alternative non-offensive words. Rather than merely try to not offend anyone around you.
I don't agree, in such a situation I'd see nothing that says "oh, he or she should have used bitch there", and I think only partially because I personally would have never thought of using bitch.
but they do say something different, they use a different target to get the negative connotation. fuss and bellyache are essentially calling an adult childish/immature/underdeveloped. bitch on the other hand is completely adult, and is essentially calling a man or a woman "a woman" or "a bad, nagging woman"
"bible thumper", "basement dweller", "moron" and outside of direct insults, see: all curse words.
not all curse words, eg shit or fuck or hell or damn, which are curses for different reasons. but I get your point, and I think it is something people should think about if they haven't before. why is moron fine, but retard is not? the site velfire posted contains good points, but it doesn't cover the whole scope (I didn't read the whole thing edit: now I did). if someone is above our constructed medical classification of mental retardation they are "fair game", but if they are classified as mentally retarded, that's a disability. it's a significant subject but I don't think it should be applied here, to the word bitch. bitch is a word we can do something about, and it's necessary because of the position women are in in our society, which you already know. it's a similar case with retard - if we can remove it even on the grounds of an artificial and fairly recent distinction, I'll take it as a victory. and the fact that there is a distinction gives relief to mentally disabled individuals, which you have to agree is a good thing
maybe talk about this some other time it's muddled right now
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but they do say something different, they use a different target to get the negative connotation. fuss and bellyache are essentially calling an adult childish/immature/underdeveloped. bitch on the other hand is completely adult, and is essentially calling a man or a woman "a woman" or "a bad, nagging woman"
Honestly my use of the word over fuss or bellyache is the hard consonants and general terseness of the word. I've been thinking of proper alternatives though and I think "cry" is a pretty decent one.
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I see. I guess I personally prefer bellyache/fuss/tantrum because I like to make everyone out to be a baby trying to play adult, cuz it's kind of true but also likely because of some weird psychological problem I probably have
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Moan is decently 'strong' I'd say. Though it has no hard consonants...
that's why the person you CALLED a retard would be offended, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about mentally disabled people who you're comparing the person you're mad at to. i'll just refer you here: http://www.r-word.org/r-word-effects-of-the-word.aspx (http://www.r-word.org/r-word-effects-of-the-word.aspx)
IDK though. If my younger brother does or says something not very smart, and I call him a retard (there is no one else around) who am I offending other than him? (I have not done this BTW)
That public transportation scenario mentioned on that site: Yeah, I do think that's wrong and could make some people uncomfortable or afraid.
Am I suggesting that people call each other retards in private? sort of. They probably should not at all so they don't get into the habit (where is might make a more public appearance), and obviously insults aren't good IN GENERAL. but I don't think when people call each other retarded they begin hating or pitying mentally disabled people any more than they already do if they do at all for that matter.
idiot and moron have lost their connotations to mentally handicapped individuals, retard hasn't. please don't compare the two.
Yes, exactly, that's why I said that I should have used idiot or moron. I rarely have used the term retard, but I have. Again I don't think I've ever used it in the presence of someone with such a disability.
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in related news
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/shortcuts/2012/jul/10/john-terry-foul-language-football (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/shortcuts/2012/jul/10/john-terry-foul-language-football)
The most shocking revelation in the John Terry trial so far (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/09/john-terry-football-racism-word)is what is regarded as acceptable abuse, sarcasm and banter on the Premier League football pitch. "Cunt"? Perfectly fine. "Fucking knobhead." Nowt wrong with that. It's only when one starts ascribing racial epithets to terms of abuse that we get into murky water.
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nice to see the whole gang is still here
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Sorry to extend the very tired sexism debate here, but it bothers me that after calling out any misogynist or hateful thing Vellfaire still says
kill all men
Like, I'm not accusing you of anything but at least to me it appears hypocritical. I'm defiinitely not saying we should use slurs or that everything you said was bullshit and I know the continued use of them gets on your nerves but it really doesn't help out your argument to say that.
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kill all men
I made this thing http://blog.deductivereasonable.com/post/27228715994/space-funeral-leg-horse-plush-sometimes-it (http://blog.deductivereasonable.com/post/27228715994/space-funeral-leg-horse-plush-sometimes-it)
wow, this is great.. thank you for sharing this with me.. (hammering IP POLICE button secreted under desk) but yeah this rules and also thats a chill looking dog ;o)
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I think puppet master is inadvertently pointing out Poe's Law.
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I suppose I am. I know she's not being serious but I still don't think it's helping.
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Like, I'm not accusing you of anything but at least to me it appears hypocritical. I'm defiinitely not saying we should use slurs or that everything you said was bullshit and I know the continued use of them gets on your nerves but it really doesn't help out your argument to say that.
I can get why you might not understand this, but this is basically a response to rape jokes. People don't get why women get upset at jokes involving rape, so jokes involving the murder of men for the fact that they're men are used as a way of turning the tables. And it works: people get upset when you do that and accuse you of "misandry", which is a bad joke. There are actually people who believe "radical feminists" support the murder or castration of the entire male gender--that's how badly the word has been defamed.
So, no, it's not the same as people saying "faggot" or "nigger" or "bitch", for one because it's not a slur, and also because it's specifically an attempt to make people realize that saying hurtful things that reminds them of their oppression is wrong. On IRC the phrase "kill all men" has turned into sort of an injoke in and of itself because of how incredibly hypocritical the reaction of those supporting rape jokes tends to be.
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Ok. I came in somewhere in the middle of the topic and I don't go on IRC so I really wasn't aware of this. Without that bit of backstory it seemed like she was just sick of the people and letting off steam that way. Thanks for the FYI, Dada.
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It's actually more of a Twitter thing come to think of it, because I've seen it used there as sort of an injoke among a certain crowd (the TWITTER SOCIAL ACTIVISTS), but yeah that's basically the raison d'etre/story of that. You should come to IRC btw it's fun.
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help im terrified of success my heart is pumping molasses to every part of my body i cant unparalyze please dont tell my future potential employer
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TWITTER SOCIAL ACTIVISTS
lol
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I mean Twitter communists.
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all you had to do was say "sorry i won't use that word again" it's not that hard yikes
this is it! this is always IT! once you learn how to say this life gets so much easier and people like you more for not being a shitty defensive butthole unwilling to recognize when they've said something inappropriate.
just swallow your fucking pride and accept that maybe what you said wasn't the best thing to say and by simply acknowledging that you recognize it people will give you the benefit of the doubt of having made a mistake and you'll be able to move on with healthier relationships with the people around you.
being a pleasant person isn't that hard!!!
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edit: you've been OOC lately dc
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I can get why you might not understand this, but this is basically a response to rape jokes. People don't get why women get upset at jokes involving rape, so jokes involving the murder of men for the fact that they're men are used as a way of turning the tables. And it works: people get upset when you do that and accuse you of "misandry", which is a bad joke. There are actually people who believe "radical feminists" support the murder or castration of the entire male gender--that's how badly the word has been defamed.
IDK though. I wouldn't equate rape with murder though. Shouldn't it be "rape all men"? Or maybe if you DON'T think that's strong enough, "Castrate all men".
This is just personal opinion and massive fear of the eternal nothing that is death but I'd rather be raped in the butt or even castrated than murdered and saying these things should have largely the same effect as "kill all men".
Also IDK if this in-joke is having the effect you probably are hoping for, considering people cry misandry when you say it (if I'm understanding you correctly). And Puppet master not being in on the joke could have caused more problems than it did.
Unless you want these reactions. In which case I'm confused.
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IDK though. I wouldn't equate rape with murder though. Shouldn't it be "rape all men"? Or maybe if you DON'T think that's strong enough, "Castrate all men".
It's not about equating the two. It's a minor attempt to show them what it's like for women to be told they shouldn't care about rape jokes (and it's minor because you can never really understand if you're not a woman and haven't lived with that kind of fear). If it's okay to tell rape jokes in defiance of requests to please not to, then it should be okay to joke about killing all men. My guess is the word "kill" is used because there are those who actually believe that "radical feminists" support the extermination of men. In any case, the exact word probably doesn't matter much, because the point seems to me to get those rape joke apologists angry at being targeted for the crime of being male, and then ignoring their pleas to stop, in the hopes that it will kindle some semblance of understanding in them.
This is something Vellfire can answer better.
Also IDK if this in-joke is having the effect you probably are hoping for, considering people cry misandry when you say it (if I'm understanding you correctly).
They do, and that's exactly the point. It reveals the hypocrisy.
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IDK though. I wouldn't equate rape with murder though. Shouldn't it be "rape all men"? Or maybe if you DON'T think that's strong enough, "Castrate all men".
This is just personal opinion and massive fear of the eternal nothing that is death but I'd rather be raped in the butt or even castrated than murdered and saying these things should have largely the same effect as "kill all men".
Also IDK if this in-joke is having the effect you probably are hoping for, considering people cry misandry when you say it (if I'm understanding you correctly). And Puppet master not being in on the joke could have caused more problems than it did.
Unless you want these reactions. In which case I'm confused.
a) no, because rape as a corrective tool is a REALLY horrible thing and not something we'd joke about. that's something that people literally do re: prison, they are GLAD that bad people get raped in prison even though guess what nobody should be raped. saying RAPE ALL MEN is a rape joke, and i will punch people who think those are okay in the face.
b) it's not so much an in-joke as it is oppressed people using the language of oppression against their oppressors. it's also a way of expressing frustration about the fact that we DON'T have the power in our society. "oh look another man exercising his privilege ugh kill all men" there's absolutely NO bite behind it so there is no reason that anyone could even pretend to take it literally (unless they're a misogynist looking for an excuse to go SEE? WOMEN ARE WRONG). no, we literally don't want men dead, we want patriarchy dead and this is a way of expressing that frustration as jokes amongst ourselves.
c) i don't give a shit who cries misandry because misandry isn't real
in summary if KILL ALL MEN is what bothers you get the heck out. having a woman express her frustration at the patriarchy in that way is nothing at all like actual oppression and going "WELL YOU *HAD* A POINT BUT THEN YOU SAID KILL ALL MEN SO THEREFORE I'M GONNA IGNORE EVERYTHING~" means you're a privileged brat.
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also what dada said is pretty true, the fact that misogynists think feminists really believe that all men should die is why we joke about it. "LOL WE'RE JUST CRAZY FEMINISTS SO I GUESS KILL ALL MEN IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE???"
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b) it's not so much an in-joke as it is oppressed people using the language of oppression against their oppressors.
Yeah I should clarify I didn't mean that the whole concept itself is an in-joke, just the act of randomly saying the specific phrase KILL ALL MEN.
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I should point out that no one has actually made a rape joke in order to bring about the "kill all men" thing.
a) no, because rape as a corrective tool is a REALLY horrible thing and not something we'd joke about. that's something that people literally do re: prison, they are GLAD that bad people get raped in prison even though guess what nobody should be raped. saying RAPE ALL MEN is a rape joke, and i will punch people who think those are okay in the face.
Honestly, this is correct. But so is murder/killing/genocide jokes. Shouldn't you want to punch people who make genocide/murder jokes in the face as well? (I suppose this is outside of the issue of feminism entirely really)
b) it's not so much an in-joke as it is oppressed people using the language of oppression against their oppressors. it's also a way of expressing frustration about the fact that we DON'T have the power in our society. "oh look another man exercising his privilege ugh kill all men" there's absolutely NO bite behind it so there is no reason that anyone could even pretend to take it literally (unless they're a misogynist looking for an excuse to go SEE? WOMEN ARE WRONG). no, we literally don't want men dead, we want patriarchy dead and this is a way of expressing that frustration as jokes amongst ourselves.
OK. I think maybe some aspects of this response may have gone over my head. I think I agree.
c) i don't give a shit who cries misandry because misandry isn't real
OK. Misandry isn't real. No women hate men. But I seriously don't think this helps the feminist cause. I just don't. but I guess I wouldn't know for certain as I haven't studied the issues enough and I'm not a woman but I'd apply this logic to every cause: It just seems like snarky/bitter/frustrated jokes aimed at people that you explicitly claim to believe are delusional wouldn't help anyone.
in summary if KILL ALL MEN is what bothers you get the heck out.
??? I don't know what you mean... Also I was merely questioning this method (and perhaps 1/2 of the goal of that method). Not your principles. And questioning doesn't mean being bothered.
I'm seriously sorry to have upset you if I have? not my intent!
having a woman express her frustration at the patriarchy in that way is nothing at all like actual oppression
But it doesn't help the situation. It just rabble-rouses and gives crazier misogynists ammo. I feel the same way about DietCoke's "kill the capitalist pigs" schtick. Maybe this is just part Saltw's culture that I just don't particularly enjoy nor think is helpful.
and going "WELL YOU *HAD* A POINT BUT THEN YOU SAID KILL ALL MEN SO THEREFORE I'M GONNA IGNORE EVERYTHING~" means you're a privileged brat.
OK, remember to separate me from this. I haven't chosen to ignore all that you have said. I Noticed this as something that merely seems (tome at least) do more harm than good.
I mean. These privileged brats, are they expected to just cease to be? are they expected to die out? are they expected to reform? does it not matter? I think it matters. I would hope one would aim to reform an unfortunately destructive individual, rather than destroy them in turn. And if that is the case with what you are aiming for I don't think this is a useful tactic for achieving such a goal.
I repeat: I don't wish to offend you, I never have had such an intention. But I had to ask these questions. I held back asking them for a while because I did not want this precise reaction and hoped it could have been avoided. I've obviously failed in that respect.
I should also specify that if I am privileged as a male (And I'm not going to deny this is probably true) I've effectively been playing the game of life on easy mode, and FAILED AT IT SPECTACULARLY. This is an all encompassing failure with maybe the exception of a mostly useless jack of all trades intellect that I have acquired.
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in summary if KILL ALL MEN is what bothers you get the heck out. having a woman express her frustration at the patriarchy in that way is nothing at all like actual oppression and going "WELL YOU *HAD* A POINT BUT THEN YOU SAID KILL ALL MEN SO THEREFORE I'M GONNA IGNORE EVERYTHING~" means you're a privileged brat.
I'm going to assume this was directed at me. I never said it was like oppression and I also explicitly said I wasn't ignoring everything you said because of it. I just failed to see how that did anything but hurt your argument. I don't think using the language of oppression against the oppressor is a good idea and in my opinion it just brings one to the level of the oppressor. I'm not even complaining about the misandry thing because, like you, I don't think it's valid. I just think that was a poor way to end an argument and it goes against anything I've learned about persuasive writing.
EDIT: So basically, like Warped said, I don't disagree with your principles but I question with your method.
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edit: you've been OOC lately dc
what's OOC?
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out of character, a roleplaying term
sayin some different stuff is all...
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o. you'd be surprised at how much of a nice and caring person i actually am :>
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I never doubted you're a nice fella irl, you've just been making more emotional posts than we're used to seeing from barack obama
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I mean Twitter communists.
hey are you callin' me out
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If y'all haven't read it, check this out http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/27398112147/insight-into-the-comic-book-industry
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I never doubted you're a nice fella irl, you've just been making more emotional posts than we're used to seeing from barack obama
it's more booze than anything else.
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Honestly, this is correct. But so is murder/killing/genocide jokes. Shouldn't you want to punch people who make genocide/murder jokes in the face as well? (I suppose this is outside of the issue of feminism entirely really)
With all due respect, I'm actually rather surprised you still don't get this after all the discussions you've been in.
Vellfire even partly explained it in the quote you're replying to. Genocide is awful too but it's not lopsided against women like rape is, nor is it used as a corrective tool to control women, and it's not something women live in constant fear in. It's something that specifically reminds women of rape culture, of the fact society considers them second-rate citizens, of the fact a lot of men don't really care about their rights or their private space or whether they say no.
Rape jokes are a celebration of all that by people who are completely ignorant of all of the above.
OK. Misandry isn't real. No women hate men.
It's about systematic oppression. Misogyny is deeply systematic, it's not just about individuals irrationally hating other individuals on the basis of biology, it's the framework that exists inside society that fosters misogyny that's the real problem. That's why misandry doesn't exist, because that framework exists only for the purpose of disenfranchising women, not men. Any exceptions that exist are minor and marginal.
EDIT: So basically, like Warped said, I don't disagree with your principles but I question with your method.
Whether you think it's a useful tactic or not, it's really up to women to make decisions on how they choose to fight their oppression. Sure, that doesn't mean men can't try to advise them in some way, but I'm very reluctant to do that because there's always a large discord between what I know and what they know. I'm not an expert. Maybe if you study the issue thoroughly, read a few books and get involved in the activist scene, you can do that, but otherwise I really don't see the point. With respect, not saying this as a way to sabotage your opinions, but you guys really don't know a thing about these issues. I don't know much about these issues either, and I have done a lot of reading.
It's also pretty typical, really. You'd be surprised at how easily men have something to say about feminism without really knowing much about it. Although I'm sure you have the best intentions, this is one culture biases. That's why, during the debates on women's healthcare issues in the US, something like 80% of the people talking about it on TV were men. They even held an all-male panel on the issue during a Senate hearing, even though none of those men will be affected by what they're discussing. Men are just sort of expected to know better, even if they're not experts. Sometimes we really just need to step back and let women sort out the things that affect them.
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I should point out that no one has actually made a rape joke in order to bring about the "kill all men" thing.
dada has pretty much said everything i wanted to say on the matter but i wanted to mention here that kill all men isn't a response only to rape jokes, it's a response to patriarchy in general
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With all due respect, I'm actually rather surprised you still don't get this after all the discussions you've been in.
Vellfire even partly explained it in the quote you're replying to. Genocide is awful too but it's not lopsided against women like rape is, nor is it used as a corrective tool to control women, and it's not something women live in constant fear in. It's something that specifically reminds women of rape culture, of the fact society considers them second-rate citizens, of the fact a lot of men don't really care about their rights or their private space or whether they say no.
just wanna add to this btw and say that there is no MURDER CULTURE like there is rape culture. look at the stats re: rape convictions. rape isn't taken seriously. when someone is murdered we ask "why did this person kill them", when someone is raped we ask "what did you do to get raped" (if we even believe that they were raped, which is half the battle for rape victims). rape is a crime where EVERYTHING is put upon the victim and most of the time the victim isn't believed at all, because we have a misogynist culture that supports rapists. the reason rape isn't okay to joke about and murder isn't as sensitive is because we already have a culture that takes murder seriously. rape is not even comparable to murder in the way it's treated by society, and that's why it can't be equated with something like murder.
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when people start going "hmm a young girl was murdered??? she was probably asking for it" every time then you can compare them
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I'm just a little surprised the mantra doesn't go kill all men, lynch all whites and bury the rich alive
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well, that's the unadbridged version...
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Just got my wisdom teeth out. still fairly sedated.
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No way dude, I have to have a shred of a wisdom tooth out in a week, killing me at the second. Out of my remaining 28 teeth, 15 need work, three need pulling. Tooth pain is the fucking worst.
Haha, ain't I pretty?
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now why would a guy i have not spoken with for years want me to go swimming with him at 10pm on a weekday...........
#lifesgratmysterie
ADDENDUM: its not that hot
and he is not that hot
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Sorry for ruining your facebook, Wayne. But it was a lot of fun.
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would you go swimming with me mellytan.........................
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would you go swimming with me mellytan.........................
anything for you comrade
but my mom might have an OBJEKTION
"who is naughty_geodude. is he a boy."
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VOZRAŽÉNIJE! Present > Swimming Jorts
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With all due respect, I'm actually rather surprised you still don't get this after all the discussions you've been in.
Vellfire even partly explained it in the quote you're replying to. Genocide is awful too but it's not lopsided against women like rape is, nor is it used as a corrective tool to control women, and it's not something women live in constant fear in. It's something that specifically reminds women of rape culture, of the fact society considers them second-rate citizens, of the fact a lot of men don't really care about their rights or their private space or whether they say no.
Rape jokes are a celebration of all that by people who are completely ignorant of all of the above.
Alight. You're right. Remember though I was never so much DEFENDING RAPE JOKES so much questioning whether they were worse than murder/genocide jokes. I can see why it is considered worse. But my utter fear of death in my mind makes it hard for me to consider rape worse. But I am an oddball. I don't actually know many people that say they fear death more than rape. Some people even think death will be what they want when they are older or whatever because most people seem to think they will get sick of life eventually. I just don't fall into this category.
Its odd though I generally enjoy video games where you kill people. Though when given the option in games like Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex for instance I almost always try to spare people.
It's about systematic oppression. Misogyny is deeply systematic, it's not just about individuals irrationally hating other individuals on the basis of biology, it's the framework that exists inside society that fosters misogyny that's the real problem. That's why misandry doesn't exist, because that framework exists only for the purpose of disenfranchising women, not men. Any exceptions that exist are minor and marginal.
OK, but see, I also don't even really think that misogynists, when they cry Misandry, actually are thinking there is a systematic hatred against men. They just think there are people that hate men (a misandrist?). Or at least I would think so. Because yes, its pretty obvious that their isn't a systematic misandry. I find it hard to believe that there are many people who think so. Why is the word "systematic" left out in he first place if it is so inherently important to describing the problem?
You should always say systematic before pointing to misogyny. I think this would clarify things.
Whether you think it's a useful tactic or not, it's really up to women to make decisions on how they choose to fight their oppression. Sure, that doesn't mean men can't try to advise them in some way, but I'm very reluctant to do that because there's always a large discord between what I know and what they know. I'm not an expert. Maybe if you study the issue thoroughly, read a few books and get involved in the activist scene, you can do that, but otherwise I really don't see the point. With respect, not saying this as a way to sabotage your opinions, but you guys really don't know a thing about these issues. I don't know much about these issues either, and I have done a lot of reading.
Like I said, I understand this is a problem that I have (that I don't know much about this particular topic) but feminism issues aren't the only issues I think this is a poor method. Like I pointed out Dietcoke's Kill all Capitalists thing. (Though now that I think about it, Geodude has been doing it more than DietCoke lately)
I just don't think this is a method worth going for for any cause.
It's also pretty typical, really. You'd be surprised at how easily men have something to say about feminism without really knowing much about it. Although I'm sure you have the best intentions, this is one culture biases. That's why, during the debates on women's healthcare issues in the US, something like 80% of the people talking about it on TV were men. They even held an all-male panel on the issue during a Senate hearing, even though none of those men will be affected by what they're discussing. Men are just sort of expected to know better, even if they're not experts. Sometimes we really just need to step back and let women sort out the things that affect them.
Wait, if they were economically based discussions, TECHNICALLY, it would effect them. Though yeah not nearly as much as it would effect women. I think think this is more because there are probably more male politicians in the US. (IDK if this is true but it certainly seems so)
dada has pretty much said everything i wanted to say on the matter but i wanted to mention here that kill all men isn't a response only to rape jokes, it's a response to patriarchy in general
OK then. I probably should have figured as much.
just wanna add to this btw and say that there is no MURDER CULTURE like there is rape culture. look at the stats re: rape convictions. rape isn't taken seriously. when someone is murdered we ask "why did this person kill them", when someone is raped we ask "what did you do to get raped" (if we even believe that they were raped, which is half the battle for rape victims). rape is a crime where EVERYTHING is put upon the victim and most of the time the victim isn't believed at all, because we have a misogynist culture that supports rapists. the reason rape isn't okay to joke about and murder isn't as sensitive is because we already have a culture that takes murder seriously. rape is not even comparable to murder in the way it's treated by society, and that's why it can't be equated with something like murder.
I guess because if you ask "Why did you rape this person?" the answer is (at least according to ignorant society in general) to be obvious? But yeah I see where you are going with that.
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I guess because if you ask "Why did you rape this person?" the answer is (at least according to ignorant society in general) to be obvious? But yeah I see where you are going with that.
this would be true if anyone believed rape victims
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I'm going to try sampling my old music for some of my new music lol. Since a lot of my stuff is basically a moving texture/context/acoustics to begin with
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yo ragnar idk how long it'll be before this is ever finished but when (IF??) i ever finish my model train GHOST ZONE will you write some ambient glitchmusic to play in the background as it runs
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because you are clearly the guy to go to for this
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I am not happy about this liquid diet. I would kill for a brisket sandwich or some shit right now.
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The morning after my last post it seems my desktop's boot drive died. SO I might not post as often for a little while... I also did not back up stuff on it like I should have. (though I had no money to buy a back up drive... I hardly have enough to buy a replacement drive)
So yeah I lost all my game code. Unless I can figure out how to retrieve it cheaply. (not likely)
Less important I lost my Oblivion save file unless steam cloud support saves my butt.
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Try downloading some file restore program, it usually allows you to retrieve some files. Do NOT touch the drive (by trying to move files from it or repartitioning it) until then.
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What kind of drive should I get? The one that just died was a 5 year old 300gb HDD. I was hoping for something at least close to the same size only being an SSD (They are faster and are known for lasting a lot longer). This worth the money? I don't have a lot of money to begin with but it'd be better to get something reliable and is an actual improvement, and I actually had to clear out my 300 gb drive a lot because I'd occasionally come within 95% capacity or something crazy.
Looking at Newegg though the prices don't really seem to prohibitive... but the jump from 256gb to 300gb is like $200 extra which really is outside my price range :/ guess I'll just have to suck it up and deal with the missing 44gb balancing out being hopefully noticeably faster.
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SSDs are only worth using for primary storage (your OS, your applications, your working files), they're not really meant for storage of like mp3 files, movies and other stuff. They're extremely fast and extremely expensive. I suggest just getting a regular drive, they're much cheaper these days than 5 years ago.
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Yeah magnetic hard drives are really pretty cheap (though they're still inflated a bit from the tsunamis) and I don't know where you're getting that SSDs live longer. Magnetic drives only die from wear and tear. Properly cared for and they can easily live well past the point where they're capacity is obsolete (I still have a 10gb hdd from the late 90s that works). SSDs are limited to a certain number of read/write cycles, and while it's not prohibitively low, especially with improvements to the technology, I would guess that the average life span of an SSD under normal operating conditions is roughly the same as a magnetic one in a desktop environment (~5-8 yrs).
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to Dada: Well, I mean that IS what this drive would be for (being a boot drive). It
has had my OS and 90% of all my programs on it. But yeah, maybe I should get a 2tb HDD instead. Since they are like the same price for 8 times the space.
The alec: oh IDK I just read that they last longer. Guess that's bullshit.
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I use an SSD for my OS drive. Got a Crucial M4 128GB for the desktop and an OCZ Onyx 32GB for my netbook and they make the systems seem a lot quicker.
They really make a huge difference in terms of just doing everyday shit on the computer like installing/launching programs, I couldn't recommend them enough as long as you've got standard drive to store your big files in.
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I'd especially recommend one for a laptop if you're carrying it around a lot.
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http://www.wikifeet.com/browse/
1st page: sinead oconnor
maybe I'm being juvenile...yes, ladies and gentlemen, I realize this even in my current state...
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Well, outside of the boot drive that just failed, I have a 1 tb external but I disconnected it because it was having connection errors. Namely, half the time the thing wasn't recognized by my machine and it'd sometimes randomly disconnect. So its not really reliable mass storage. The only other drive I have is a 300gb internal drive that is just as old as the drive that just died on me that I used for storing extra shit. So I don't exactly have faith in the thing.
The thing that always seems to take up so much space on my computer's boot drive is steam games namely. I'll end up leaving some big games installed until I reach its limits and I want to install a new game, so I'll hesitantly go and uninstall a few. Since I can't have steam games separated into 2 drives and I'd rather my games be on the boot drive, this becomes a problem. I wish I could just say fuck it and get a large 500gb SSD or something but they are prohibitively expensive. I'd say my limit is pretty much 200USD. Even that is eating a hole in my pocket.
EDIT: I guess the question is what will I regret not having the most, speed or space. because I will regret one or the other to at least some degree. Ugh, I wish I wasn't so indecisive.
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Since I can't have steam games separated into 2 drives and
You actually can do this http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664376&highlight=ntfs+junction (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664376&highlight=ntfs+junction)
Alternatively, you move games rather than uninstall them and move them back when you want to play them again.
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http://www.wikifeet.com/browse/ (http://www.wikifeet.com/browse/)
1st page: sinead oconnor
maybe I'm being juvenile...yes, ladies and gentlemen, I realize this even in my current state...
Wow... I can't believe that's a real website.
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Yeah... feet... never got that fetish. Whatever floats one's boat I guess.
My options have boiled down to:
A) 2TB HDD for 200USD
B) 240GB SSD for 205USD
or C) 64GB SSD & 500GB HDD for 200USD
I came up with C thinking maybe I could go half and half but its kind of a shitty option. (namely that 64gb SSD, shit that's way too small even for just a boot drive)
Despite the obvious speed benefits I'd lose out on I'm leaning towards option 'A' since I suppose in the future I could always upgrade when SSD's are cheaper and I actually have a decent amount of money I can spend without feeling burned. I'll never know when I might absolutely need that space. While the extra speed wont ever be absolutely necessary but merely a frill.
I can't make the order yet anyway though so I might as well think on it some more and consult more people/articles.
I really wish I didn't have to spend this money in the first place.
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I regret that, but inac I wasn't saying anything about anyone or any fetish I was just ecstatic at the time to find a "wiki" for celebrity feet with a gallery of sinead o'connor of all people at the top of the page, but it's not even there anymore bc apparently the site gets a ton of new pictures all the time.
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I just find it strange that there's a rather professional looking internet database of celebrity feet complete with a ranking system.
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Sorry for ruining your facebook, Wayne. But it was a lot of fun.
haha, no problem man. Was some entertainment throughout a dull day at work :)
Shame we're pure evil though :(
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haha, no problem man. Was some entertainment throughout a dull day at work :)
Shame we're pure evil though :(
This dude was pretty amazing, he started swearing at you at the very first moment. He didn't even wait for other people to start arguing with him.
I also gave him FACTS and his response was literally "HA HA, WRONG!" :)
Indeed it was good entertainment.
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in-friended ya commies, god bless remington
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I'm probably the only person who is kind of disgusted by TED talks and finds them really difficult to sit through or to listen to people talk about them: you know, TED talks? you know what TED talks are? that's right you insufferable buffoon, now back to the hot wings and American football matches with you
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I've run into a lot of anti-TED sentiment. I watched a couple about space exploration, but that's all. Usual star dreck.
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within minutes of his first reply he posted a link to another article about the shootings saying like 'DON'T LET THEM TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS! HE WOULDN'T HAVE LASTED LONG!!'
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I guess I should know that other people can have unreasonable opinions about things that don't matter too, but if I see one more nerd who Quit His Dream Job for Technology giving the modest head-dip thank you in response to applause
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BAH WTF earl. I love TED talks.
How can you honestly not like all TED talks though seriously? They are like all basically different topics. Like anti-TED talks sentiment isn't a thing I thought could exist.
Not all the talks are great yeah, but they usually are at least somewhat interesting. Even the 'bad ones' are interesting.
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Well, I did a google search. Most of he people who don't like TED don't like them because they never got in as journalists or speakers or because they hink TED is full of smug people and nerd celebrities (wait what?).
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I'm probably the only person who is kind of disgusted by TED talks and finds them really difficult to sit through or to listen to people talk about them: you know, TED talks? you know what TED talks are? that's right you insufferable buffoon, now back to the hot wings and American football matches with you
It's sort of a perverse thing. The lecturers are told to give short (~30mins) lectures, meaning they can never really go into any significant detail. Apparently the TED audience isn't expected to stay focused for longer than that. A few days ago I saw a (non-TED, on Youtube) lecture on the Israel-Palestine conflict which left out a lot of details for purposes of time (and the lecturer, Finkelstein, explicitly mentioned that), and that was 2 hours long. You just can't really give anything other than a quick overview in less than that amount of time. And I bet a lot of those lecturers also have a book to sell you.
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well like i said i only watched a couple but i think it has more to do with the discovery channel kind of approach to education and information (But what if...The Dinosaurs were alive today? 'If the dinosaurs were alive today, I've got one word for you: We. Are. Screwed.' - Dr. Bill Gibbons from University of West Rump *Insert CGI shot of T-Rex eating Empire State Building* I forget what I was going to say
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ted lecture, more like DED lecture... DED FROM BOREDOM.
out of the way fartknockers, it's shark week
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It's sort of a perverse thing. The lecturers are told to give short (~30mins) lectures, meaning they can never really go into any significant detail. Apparently the TED audience isn't expected to stay focused for longer than that. A few days ago I saw a (non-TED, on Youtube) lecture on the Israel-Palestine conflict which left out a lot of details for purposes of time (and the lecturer, Finkelstein, explicitly mentioned that), and that was 2 hours long. You just can't really give anything other than a quick overview in less than that amount of time. And I bet a lot of those lecturers also have a book to sell you.
I'd be all for longer TED talks. But I greatly enjoy what they do go over, I think TED talks are interesting. Though I generally watch the actual technology related stuff so shorter videos are usually not to much of a problem. (though yeah sometimes I'm left wanting more)
well like i said i only watched a couple but i think it has more to do with the discovery channel kind of approach to education and information (But what if...The Dinosaurs were alive today? 'If the dinosaurs were alive today, I've got one word for you: We. Are. Screwed.' - Dr. Bill Gibbons from University of West Rump *Insert CGI shot of T-Rex eating Empire State Building* I forget what I was going to say
Maybe I haven't watched enough TED Talks to know what you are talking about. You think you could find an example of this?
And as much as I know that sort of thing probably shouldn't be in a TED talk, I'd probably still say it was entertaining if not exactly the most intellectual topic. Though it'd also be a video title "Dinosaurs in modern day" and I'd probably skip it because its just a hypothetical thing I want to know about some technology that actually effects someone. (negatively or positively)
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looking at the newest TED's:
Videos I'd normally skip: (at worst, completely needless, at best, 'icing on the cake')
Capturing memories in video art
The greatest machine that never was
New ways to see music (with color! and fire!)
Videos I'd watch first: (practical things)
How to fool a GPS
A vision of crimes in the future
Experiments that point to a new understanding of cancer
Image recognition that triggers augmented reality
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i've only watched a couple of TED Things but they were all messianic uppermiddleclass white technology fetishists talking about how if "everyone" (who is also a messianic white technology fetishist, apparantly) pitched in to crowdfund ipads for el salvadore then it would solve all of the problems. it's cool because it's all based around prioritising volition and individual enterprise in a way which makes it a great fit for people who are enthusiastic about capitalism but still nurture the idea of having a social conscience. poor people: please don't do anything at all but passively, eternally exist in a state of abject desolation while we decide how to make your life better. wasn't gamification a TED talk? let's plug into compulsive, ritualistic behaviour loops of addiction and control to solve problems. wait, i've identified my biggest problem as "plugging in to compulsive, ritualistic behaviour loops of addiction and control". wait, the video must cut off just before they start to talk about this bit.
sinead o'connor of all people
fuck you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Whos Sinead O'connor? (scratch that, why is earlchip saying "of all people" and why is thecatamites offended by this?)
So I guess we shouldn't bother talking about technology or helping poor people but we should obsess about the source of that help being us and how its wrong that if we are going to help them we should not have a say? "Ugh, your CHOOSING what charity to donate to? PSH"
Which is funny because it isn't like this is the only thing TED talks are about, nor even a focus necessarily, technology is.
Ends justify the means, if gamification helps someone deal with a serious problem more power to them I say. Just saying they need to rely on their willpower usually doesn't help. I haven't actually seen a TED Talk on Gamification though so I can't comment directly on how they handled that.
But yeah I'm definitely a technology fetishist.
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Its funny, but this TED talk kind of addresses one of the very things you are saying is so bad:
http://www.ted.com/talks/baba_shiv_sometimes_it_s_good_to_give_up_the_driver_s_seat.html
Not my kind of TED Talk normally.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM)
Anime music video for M.O.P. - Ante Up
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Whos Sinead O'connor? (scratch that, why is earlchip saying "of all people" and why is thecatamites offended by this?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinéad_O'Connor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinéad_O'Connor) summary with nice pics, also catamites is from ireland too
and I just would never expect a gallery of her on the front page of a celebrity foot wiki. Carla Bozulich Feet Gallery - rating 3 stars "okay feet" but I guess oconnor actually performs barefoot so it makes a little sense
i've only watched a couple of TED Things but they were all messianic uppermiddleclass white technology fetishists talking about how if "everyone" (who is also a messianic white technology fetishist, apparantly) pitched in to crowdfund ipads for el salvadore then it would solve all of the problems. it's cool because it's all based around prioritising volition and individual enterprise in a way which makes it a great fit for people who are enthusiastic about capitalism but still nurture the idea of having a social conscience. poor people: please don't do anything at all but passively, eternally exist in a state of abject desolation while we decide how to make your life better. wasn't gamification a TED talk? let's plug into compulsive, ritualistic behaviour loops of addiction and control to solve problems. wait, i've identified my biggest problem as "plugging in to compulsive, ritualistic behaviour loops of addiction and control". wait, the video must cut off just before they start to talk about this bit.
!!
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I just thought it would be funny to feign outrage on behalf of the Stunning, Petite Sinead O "Cultural Treasure" Connor. Actually I've no opinions on her. Just- just - just forget the whole thing!! *hurls books to floor and runs out of kitchen past startled earlchip*
warpped charity is kool but it doesn't happen in a vacuum and you should decide for yourself whether or not you think the immediate benefits of it outweigh the more pernicious role it can have in acting as a kind of apologia for systems that are in themselves exploitative and oppressive (consumer electronics are cool and can help us give back to the disenfranchised!! help whats a coltan) or as a safety valve offering a heavily circumscribed release from the feelings of guilt and privilege that come from being complicit in said systems without actually changing or challenging them in any way or as a covert way for THE MAN to redefine the limits of political activity (the passive, voiceless, impotent, usually-far-away "good victim" implicit in the idea of charity has a kind of converse in the loud, pushy, active "bad victim" who seems so ungrateful for all the fine things being done and holds obtrusive strikes right in the city center and makes everyone feel on edge with angry assertions (maybe feminism would be more popular if you'd all be more polite to men??) - compare the officially-sanctioned charity of the last few years with the preposterously brutal police shut-down of marches, strikes, occupy events etc that happened at the same time). it's up to you where u draw the line..... follow your heart................
follow your heart...................
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*before earl recoveres from catas' abrupt leave, a crying starts from above level!! shocked earl listens as somebody quietly sobs and chokes 'earl... irc...WHEN...'- earl swears under his breath and broodingly takes a bottle of cheap fortified wine from his hidden stash, Everything I Do Is Wrong...
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I just thought it would be funny to feign outrage on behalf of the Stunning, Petite Sinead O "Cultural Treasure" Connor. Actually I've no opinions on her. Just- just - just forget the whole thing!! *hurls books to floor and runs out of kitchen past startled earlchip*
warpped charity is kool but it doesn't happen in a vacuum and you should decide for yourself whether or not you think the immediate benefits of it outweigh the more pernicious role it can have in acting as a kind of apologia for systems that are in themselves exploitative and oppressive (consumer electronics are cool and can help us give back to the disenfranchised!! help whats a coltan) or as a safety valve offering a heavily circumscribed release from the feelings of guilt and privilege that come from being complicit in said systems without actually changing or challenging them in any way or as a covert way for THE MAN to redefine the limits of political activity (the passive, voiceless, impotent, usually-far-away "good victim" implicit in the idea of charity has a kind of converse in the loud, pushy, active "bad victim" who seems so ungrateful for all the fine things being done and holds obtrusive strikes right in the city center and makes everyone feel on edge with angry assertions (maybe feminism would be more popular if you'd all be more polite to men??) - compare the officially-sanctioned charity of the last few years with the preposterously brutal police shut-down of marches, strikes, occupy events etc that happened at the same time). it's up to you where u draw the line..... follow your heart................
follow your heart...................
I actually don't necessarily think charities are the most effective at what they aim to do. But I think its asinine to bash them when they are USUALLY a group of people trying to help. Though, whether they are doing a good job is important in a charities individual continued existence, but not in all charities continued existence. Its odd though that I'm even defending charities/crowdfunding when I've never actually given money to one.
Anyway, like I said the most important thing here is to remember that TED Talks are about 80% technology and how technology can fix some of our problems. (or introduce new ones) Not how we can help the poor (though that is a semi-common element in some speeches)
And I DO think technology is more likely to solve our problems than a complete overhaul of our economic and political systems. Not because I think our current systems are good or even acceptable, but because it seems more likely (since technology has so many backers, social and financially and of the entire spectrum) while such massive changes in they way things are done basically seems impossible to me. Furthermore, its not as if these 2 forces can't work in parallel (Technology and economic change) rather than be viewed as competitors.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM)
Anime music video for M.O.P. - Ante Up
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TED is basically the new MENSA. you know how much those rubes in the audience are paying to be there?
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TED
lol
minefield of BS. diamonds scattered among claymores. fire stinger when his back is turned during taunt animation
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwVuJUiPJM)
Anime music video for M.O.P. - Ante Up
holy shit
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TED is basically the new MENSA. you know how much those rubes in the audience are paying to be there?
Implication that MENSA members are rubes? Wow, unnecessary attitude towards a private club that doesn't harm you.
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Whatever, I'm seriously perplexed that so many people here don't like TED Talks. Unless you are all trolling me. Doesn't matter. I'm going to keep watching. I haven't seen any legit or convincing arguments against watching them. :P
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This is how it's done http://wedemandhtml.com/tmp/winamp_osx_final.png
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Whatever, I'm seriously perplexed that so many people here don't like TED Talks. Unless you are all trolling me. Doesn't matter. I'm going to keep watching. I haven't seen any legit or convincing arguments against watching them. :P
Nobody's trying to convince you to stop watching. It's just that the concept is a bit typical. TED is very mainstream, so of course they're going to stick to the aforementioned. Nobody's going to give truly substantive lectures about how maybe ending globalism is a better way to lower asthma rates among the super poor in India than crowdsourced nebulizers. Doesn't mean the things they do talk about can't be interesting or meaningful (I remember one good if short lecture by a neurologist explaining how he and his colleagues invented the mirror box for the treatment of phantom limb pain).
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Whatever, I'm seriously perplexed that so many people here don't like TED Talks. Unless you are all trolling me. Doesn't matter. I'm going to keep watching. I haven't seen any legit or convincing arguments against watching them. :P
cool, have a lot of fun, dont let the opinions of others hold you back from doing what you enjoy.
i just don't get much out of them, it just seems to oscillate between shallow pop-intellectualism and big-idea tech fetishism. tho once i saw one about origami and some novel scientific and industrial intersections with the art, but it was really just 30 minutes of trivia and just came away from it thinking "oh neat" which is fine i guess
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Implication that MENSA members are rubes? Wow, unnecessary attitude towards a private club that doesn't harm you.
i can't tell if this is sarcasm, but mensa members are rubes (as are the people who spend 10,000 dolla-ree-doos to watch a hack give a powerpoint)
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http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/against-ted/ (http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/against-ted/)
that's a pretty well reasoned article about why TED is a pretty silly thing
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http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/against-ted/ (http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/against-ted/)
that's a pretty well reasoned article about why TED is a pretty silly thing
hell yea
yeah no doubt there's occasionally something interesting but I find it inherently gross. tech is capital/some stupid idea like technological theism are you a literal mac or pc edit: should be the next videodrome
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i can't tell if this is sarcasm, but mensa members are rubes (as are the people who spend 10,000 dolla-ree-doos to watch a hack give a powerpoint)
u just called someone a rube...
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i can't tell if this is sarcasm, but mensa members are rubes (as are the people who spend 10,000 dolla-ree-doos to watch a hack give a powerpoint)
It isn't sarcastic and you're being ignorant and rude. You clearly know nothing about the society and are coming from a really ignorant place here. Needless and subjective insulting of members of a group you clearly know next to nothing about.
To what end? Self gratification at not being "rubey" enough to join a private social club? Ever been to a meeting, social, pub crawl, support group or anything else involving MENSA members? Or is your basis for insulting us purely on the fact that we sit an exam to join the group?
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Isn't Mensa just joining a club so you can feel smart?
Also foot fetishes are funny guys, sorry but its true. ITS A FOOT. Fetishes are funny in general. Everyone has them but they are funny. No regrets Earlchip no regrets.
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Again with negative connotations.
"Feel" smart? It's actually a social network that has restrictions upon entry. It provides a large number of social functions, support networks, and opportunities for a member (and member's family etc). It isn't just sitting a test and getting a certificate - there's a thriving community that goes alongside it.
It's vastly removed from whatever the hell is meant by "rube" (I assume sucker?).
Besides, IQ has nothing to do with "smartness". It has everything to do with problem solving abilities. It does ignore tons of other "smart" skills, purely being based on logic, vocabulary, and problem solving. Creativity isn't measured, for example, and the emotional intelligence of members may be subpar in some cases. However, the negativity that's being expressed towards what is effectively a private club for people to socialise is undeserved.
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Speaking of IQ tests does anyone know a good free online one? I've never actually tried one out.
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Don't trust online tests. If you want to do one contact MENSA and they'll send you a practise test. Online ones aren't vetted or moderated, and tend to dramatically inflate people's scores.
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if you pay me 1000 dollars a day i'll organize social outings for you and also call you smart
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1MENSA membership is £40 a year with significant discounts for students, elderly people, and under-18s. This covers the magazine, similar to the big issue, and costs less than many other publications. No one calls you smart for joining.
You're showing your ignorance and prejudice, being snipey and calling the club a scam. It's unnecessary and shows you have some issue with the society. You're being insulting to a group for no reason?
Assumptions about a group are a pretty negative thing. Joining is considered an achievement - why are you needlessly trying to deride people and make light of this?
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It's really pretty depressing for me to realize how sick I still am underneath those pain killers.
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shit wait what? I thought you were getting better? :(
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That blows man. What's your ETA for betterbeing?
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I'm getting better, it's just gonna take a while. Might take up to a year according to the neurologist. And I just can't really function too well when I'm not on both pain killers (one of which is addictive).
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I had no idea you were ill at all Dada, best wishes.
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take care dada, keep fighting
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Hi all you won't recognize me but i made a couple really embarrassing posts here like 2 years ago and I just wanted to apologize for that. Cya.
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Never apologise gnobalot!
I am retroactively ashamed of 99.9% of my posts, yet I SOLDIER ON!!
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Heres a smiley i made to make it up to you.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i.imgur.com/YJPTk.gif)
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I've never made a good post.
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Hi all you won't recognize me but i made a couple really embarrassing posts here like 2 years ago and I just wanted to apologize for that. Cya.
Sure took you long enough...
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ok, so, by the way, I don't know if anybody here likes avatar: the last airbender, but, IF YOU DO, the voice actress for azula just sent me a personalized birthday message in azula's voice and holy shit this is just. omg. I'm sorry but this is really just omg.
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That is pretty rad Roman, I loved that show!
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lol roman that's funny but congrats! tbh if I'd ever get one from like laura silverman or princess bubblegum/starfire I'd probably squee edit: I dare not even suggest marceline edit: or BMO lets be honest edit: Audrey Horne
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the helga pataki generation
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Fuck wasps. My dad dragged me and my brother with him to go help him load up some stuff he he plans on selling onto his truck yesterday.
Anyway, I pretty much have this phobia of any and all flying stinging insects. Namely bees and wasps. He mentioned that there was a hive of hornets that needed to be hit with some raid when we got there a few days before but I had forgotten this. When we got there we didn't see any and we started loading them up and the guy that let us in gave us some wasp killer and I realized that this was the job he was talking about with he wasps.
I spent basically 4-6 hours loading a truck with heavy industrial equipment that had sometimes had fucking hornets living in them. spent most of that time spazzing out and running away from them when they showed up and getting yelled at for it. I became obsessed with figuring out which beams had the hives so I eventually started kicking them slightly and prepared to run in case they had a hive. I eventually kicked one slightly and like 40 of them spilled out and I froze in shock and got stung on the fucking leg that kicked the beams. I could barely function or help them move the stuff because 90% of the time there were 5+ wasps flying around and I couldn't fucking bare it. Near the end of the job, I was angrily called back in from my latest retreat and a wasp began flying towards me and I instinctively DIVED OUT OF THE WAY and hit my head on the 40 or so pound metal beam my brother was holding and got screamed at by my dad again telling me to effectively to get a hold of myself and that I could end up killing myself if I kept it up. I yelled back at my dad that I couldn't fucking help it and my younger brother told me "Just go away" bitterly (he basically thought I was being stupid as well). So I jumped in the trucks cab and wasn't called back again.
I understand I have a irrational fear. I've even told my dad this long ago and he just got agitated and told me how that is really dumb and terrible and I should 'fix that'. But just shit, couldn't he had hit that shit with raid the day before hand? (he had visited the site before).
He also told me I should get over my fear because if I acted this way at a job I'd get fired.
Yeah the injury I sustained from whamming my head hurts today and my wasp sting just itches but c'mon. I mean FUCK. FUCK WASPS. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TOLERATE THEM.
I'm also admittedly baffled that they never got stung once. Probably because of a combination of luck and acting somewhat calm around them BUT THAT IS JUST SOMETHING I CAN'T DO.
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Man, I've been reading the archives for like... 3 hours now. I know you all know this but we had a really special place here. We had an amazing community, everyone was really funny, it was awesome. the good old days. I mean we still have a nice community, it's just obviously way small, and slow. I hope we can get going again someday, get a fresh bunch of people. I don't know if that would even matter at this point. Our community had grown organically for years and years to get to that point. I'm sad because I know one day we will stop meeting and talking on our forum. Some day we won't have an archive to look at and this entire thing that was a huge part of all our lives will be gone forever.
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warped babby
i emphasize. the best way to "fix it" is really to get somebody professional who can slowly make you win your phobia probably for your dad's delight. unless if it's just post-childhood fear of any insects (which i have still but i'm on the winning side; i mean that there are people who have real diagnozed hc phobias u no) in which case you have easier time... but yeah no it doesn't help you ofc when you get called out for tasks/jobs like that/when you are in the situation.
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Dude you just need a badminton racket and a strong right arm. That'll learn them wasps real good.
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right that's it i'm quitting drinking. seriously, now. come on now. that's it.
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What happened Jamie?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PToqVW4n86U
Friend showed me this
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top comment: "Orange tongue" 99 likes
he must browse reddit....
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Man, I've been reading the archives for like... 3 hours now. I know you all know this but we had a really special place here. We had an amazing community, everyone was really funny, it was awesome. the good old days. I mean we still have a nice community, it's just obviously way small, and slow. I hope we can get going again someday, get a fresh bunch of people. I don't know if that would even matter at this point. Our community had grown organically for years and years to get to that point. I'm sad because I know one day we will stop meeting and talking on our forum. Some day we won't have an archive to look at and this entire thing that was a huge part of all our lives will be gone forever.
Don't dude, I've been depressed about that for a long, long time now. This place defined my adolescence.
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Anybody else think Windows 8 looks really really awful?
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This is a good example (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/29/mitt-romney-jerusalem-israel_n_1716662.html) of just how propagandistic the mainstream media is:
"Jerusalem is a flashpoint in the region. Both Israelis and Palestinians have claimed rights to the city."
East-Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians. The rest belongs to Israel. That's how it is, and nobody disputes this (except Israel which claims it all as their own). The fact that the International Court of Justice investigated the issue and ruled 14-1 that East-Jerusalem belongs is occupied Palestinian territory is not mentioned even though it's as definitive an answer as possible.
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http://vimeo.com/46304267 (http://vimeo.com/46304267)
whoa.
EDIT: I hope its ok if I advertise a topic I made in the Art section (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83329.new#new) for posting what you have written over the years (good, bad, ugly, fiction, non-fiction, articles, poems, finished work, unfinished work, etc.)
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Also someone should post a new Picture thread, I would but I lack any interesting pictures to post at the moment and it seems odd to post a picture topic with out having at least 1 picuture in the opening post.
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does anyone know the name of the game with the procedurally generated world that's entirely about exploration, and the landscape is like pastel colored and shit?
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I sympathize with you Goldenratio. I'm sure Dada is doing the best he can on making our new blog/forums. Yes, someone should make a picture thread.
I also think we need a cliche general name for the forum. Even just something dumb like gameplanet or creativeworld or some shit. I would never browse a random forum and think hey "SALT WORLD" sounds cool because i would just be confused by it. lets just go back to gamingworld even. stuff world. discussion dungeon. smartypants hideout whatever
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Yeah I don't know. "Salt World" never really struck me as being catchy. I guess it's some kind of in-joke between some people or something, but who cares? I'd rather attract new members than cater to the past. I agree that it doesn't need to be "Gaming World" necessarily, but something just generic enough to draw people in, but not so generic that we don't have a focus.
I really liked the "Glitchworks" name (especially because it kept the "GW" acronym :3) but yeah too bad that site never really took off...
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Yeah I don't know. "Salt World" never really struck me as being catchy. I guess it's some kind of in-joke between some people or something, but who cares? I'd rather attract new members than cater to the past. I agree that it doesn't need to be "Gaming World" necessarily, but something just generic enough to draw people in, but not so generic that we don't have a focus.
I really liked the "Glitchworks" name (especially because it kept the "GW" acronym :3) but yeah too bad that site never really took off...
it'll be great in a bunch of years when we're all still posting here somehow and we can just call the place GERIATRIC WARD to get back to the gw acronym. it's worth pointing out that geriatricward.com is available right now......
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Any name is allright as long as we're able to do something that makes people want to join/visit. Something like a troubs tribute album of a popular group (like the beatles one we did) ready for when the site launches, could get us an initial influx. Salt World does Sun Ra. A more generic name could get us lost in the sea of random websites, having something different that would make this place recognisible would be better.
“If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school” - Captain Beefheart
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I do kind of like the implication of a guy called "dada" running a place called "salt world" which has nothing to do with salt.
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Creativity, the salt of the earth, salty seadogs of the interwebwaves, hence saltw oh I don't know nvm
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i still think we should spam the message boards with a bunch of topics about SALT MINING in the hopes that we get a bunch of salt miners looking for kindred spirits
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I don't know that salt is mined, I think it is a type of tubar or 'potate'.
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i still think we should spam the message boards with a bunch of topics about SALT MINING in the hopes that we get a bunch of salt miners looking for kindred spirits
That plan would never work.
Even if we got the attention of one real salt miner, he would just call our discussions of SALT MINING misinormed and insincere. We would be found out as phonies in less than a week. (Faust knows exactly what I am talking about. Or DOES he? This is exactly what I am talking about.)
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I really hate tabloid language. I don't know why but when they do that thing reducing every sentence to its briefest and most blunt possible form; 'drug cheat exposed' 'fraud boss fired' etc. I dunno, makes me feel shitty. I guess it's turning some negative action into a noun, then another noun to define them even more narrowly, then something being done to them. The punitive, manipulative language...well I guess I'm saying tabloids annoy me okay.
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I really hate tabloid language. I don't know why but when they do that thing reducing every sentence to its briefest and most blunt possible form; 'drug cheat exposed' 'fraud boss fired' etc. I dunno, makes me feel shitty. I guess it's turning some negative action into a noun, then another noun to define them even more narrowly, then something being done to them. The punitive, manipulative language...well I guess I'm saying tabloids annoy me okay.
100% agreement.
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speaking of "drug cheat exposed"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19062639
wtg judge / jury / executioner, looks like there was *gasp* an exceptional performance at the olympic games
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I just wanted to mention that I'd been going to this website for nearly half my life now. I also passed my decade mark awhile back.
I want my kids to know I spent over a decade of my life, and probably much more to come yet, at an amateur gamemaking website. I've been going to this site as long as I've had any independence in my life.
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speaking of "drug cheat exposed"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19062639
wtg judge / jury / executioner, looks like there was *gasp* an exceptional performance at the olympic games
i think i was on bbc news probably reading something about that when i got annoyed before. fuck bbc news, almost worthless.
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I just wanted to mention that I'd been going to this website for nearly half my life now. I also passed my decade mark awhile back.
I want my kids to know I spent over a decade of my life, and probably much more to come yet, at an amateur gamemaking website. I've been going to this site as long as I've had any independence in my life.
I repeat my earlier sentiments: I love you Mori!
PS: come to IRC more.
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The forum seems livelier than usual today
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i think i was on bbc news probably reading something about that when i got annoyed before. fuck bbc news, almost worthless.
And then consider that BBC is actually one of the better ones by comparative standards.
Al Jazeera is interesting, you should take a look at that. Not perfect either but better than Western mainstream sources by miles.
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Yeah, I go to a whole bunch of different news sites. Well, I kind of rotate them. nytimes, democracy now, sydney morning herald, the Real News Network (this one i'm not so sure about not being a nut site but they have interesting interviews), bbc - just cos, and cnn for the same reason. and when i'm at home i sometimes buy the guardian. i've always watched al jazeera's tv station, dunno why it hasn't occurred to me to visit the site.
also i'm not saying any of those sites are the best or anything but they are the ones i've picked up into my browsing rotation just to get a sense of what is going on - and badly made news is something i like to know about, too. bbc seems to be the worst of them all though; they write short, uninformative and patronising crap, often times about absolutely nothing at all.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_70119&feature=iv&src_vid=RuRgifyKC-M&v=XMYqe4b49cY
i have said many times how much i really don't like watching lets plays or w/e but man i am having a really good time watching these guys play this game (WARNING: LOTS OF SCARES AND SPOOKS)
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just going to put this right here
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels
seriously going to cry if this doesn't get funded btw. not just like a single manly tear rolling down my cheek as i stand before some poignant background, i'm talking like the deep guttural, full body cry where i convulse uncontrollably, moaning at the top of my lungs, stopping only to profusely vomit all over my genitals, exposed through the hole i inadvertently tore in my pants while writhing violently on the floor in pure agony
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http://dsc.discovery.com/gear-gadgets/designer-builds-slick-9-bike-made-of-cardboard-video.html#mkcpgn=fbdsc17
Cardboard bikes.
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just going to put this right here
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels)
seriously going to cry if this doesn't get funded btw. not just like a single manly tear rolling down my cheek as i stand before some poignant background, i'm talking like the deep guttural, full body cry where i convulse uncontrollably, moaning at the top of my lungs, stopping only to profusely vomit all over my genitals, exposed through the hole i inadvertently tore in my pants while writhing violently on the floor in pure agony
this will be interesting to see BUT I really think kricfalusi's new Ren and Stimpy cartoons that he made after he got the rights back were awful. It was great when he was pushing the limits of what's acceptable for a children's cartoon, but now that the sky is the limit it's just not funny to see extremely overt metaphors for gay sex. The animation was still fantastic of course but I didn't think the concepts were particularly good.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/078/134/f5a7862dfcd420667ed42630302999b0_large.gif?1342823792)
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firm loses 440 million dollars in a single day due to a programming bug
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/?hp (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/?hp)
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My mom has been getting into Facebook arguments/discussions about the Chik-Fil-A uproar.
One of the the few times I 99% I agree with her. She says its dumb to cease eating somewhere because their CEO (or whatever he is) is a fuckwad. (though she does seem to think that while she thinks he's wrong about gay marraige, I don't think she thinks he's a fuckwad, I sort of do)
Buying-en-masse (dumb religious people in this case), not buying food (just dumb people) for political reasons is very very dumb. The guy running Chik-fil-a might be an religious ignorant ass, but hell can his company make good chicken and I'm eating that chicken.
I should also point out that if McDonalds suddenly started telling the world that they supported legalizing gay marriage I still wouldn't eat that shit.
I'm disappointed in my dad though. He rarely ate at Chik-Fil-A. Suddenly this shit comes up and he goes out of his way to order a 6 piece chicken. -_-
I mean if you are going to buy food you think is so-so for stupid political reasons, why don't you bring someone along to eat their that ACTUALLY REALLY LIKES THEIR FOOD (me). ;\
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She says its dumb to cease eating somewhere because their CEO (or whatever he is) is a fuckwad.
[...]
Buying-en-masse (dumb religious people in this case), not buying food (just dumb people) for political reasons is very very dumb. The guy running Chik-fil-a might be an religious ignorant ass, but hell can his company make good chicken and I'm eating that chicken.
Actually he donates the profits from his restaurant chain towards right-wing organizations that actively work to subvert gay marriage legislation. It's not just about their CEO's personal views. They've donated millions of dollars already and will probably keep on doing it. That's why people organized a day of support for them: to offset the lost revenue from the boycott, so that they can continue to spend money on fostering discrimination.
I'm kind of hoping you didn't know about that fact because otherwise it's pretty awful that you've just called the LGBT activists and their allies "very very dumb" for standing up to this.
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The whole Chic-Fil-A support day, tiny as it may be in the grand scheme of things, is imo one of the most disgusting things I've seen in quite some time. People munching on chicken sandwiches so that gay people can continue to be mistreated. It's truly the American spirit condensed into its purest form.
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American activism only happens when fast food is involved.
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If Chick-Fil-A hates gays then they don't want gay people money IMO. That money goes into some hateful ass shit I don't want to fund, and it's sad that your only rationale is "but their junky fast food chicken is so worth it..."
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http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288 Mei posted this on FB, well worth a read.
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this will be interesting to see BUT I really think kricfalusi's new Ren and Stimpy cartoons that he made after he got the rights back were awful. It was great when he was pushing the limits of what's acceptable for a children's cartoon, but now that the sky is the limit it's just not funny to see extremely overt metaphors for gay sex. The animation was still fantastic of course but I didn't think the concepts were particularly good.
i actually didn't see any of those, so i wouldn't know. i've always liked what he's done with george liquor though, even the more recent stuff, which is probably why i'm a little unusually excited about this. and from i've gathered, the concept for this short is something he's been sitting on for a while, not just something he's coming up with off the cuff. i mean, he lays out the concept for this in a reasonably clear way, and it definitely strikes me as something worthwhile that he probably is somewhat less likely to screw up.
i guess in general i'm just excited to see this really talented guy who has had a much more underwhelming career than he probably should have actually getting a chance to really pursue a personal project. it's always something of a bummer to see that happen(see: orson welles), and i guess i'm just excited to see kickstarter really starting to attract those oddball auteurs that would otherwise just get kicked around. i don't know if john k is going to really do it, but i think eventually you're going to see something pretty special come out of kickstarter. wish this was around ages ago. a bunch of careers probably would have ended up somewhat differently.
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i actually didn't see any of those, so i wouldn't know. i've always liked what he's done with george liquor though, even the more recent stuff, which is probably why i'm a little unusually excited about this. and from i've gathered, the concept for this short is something he's been sitting on for a while, not just something he's coming up with off the cuff. i mean, he lays out the concept for this in a reasonably clear way, and it definitely strikes me as something worthwhile that he probably is somewhat less likely to screw up.
Okay, yeah, I haven't actually read the description, I just kind of glanced over it. It does look good though. Kricfalusi has a killer style. I actually don't think anybody is as good at cartoon mise-en-scene as he is. Pretty much every individual frame from any Ren and Stimpy cartoon could be printed as a poster because no single shot is ever boring or filler. And yes, George Liquor is one of his best characters. That's also the one that got him fired.
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On a side note I think it's hilarious everybody calls him John K because his last name is so damn hard to write or pronounce.
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I was wondering how the hell you're supposed to pronounce it. Like "krik-fuh-loosy" or "krich-fuh-loosy" or something?
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his closest confidantes pronounce it ""crunk floozey"
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thanks tomáš ujfaluši for giving me a clue on how to pronounce it
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Actually he donates the profits from his restaurant chain towards right-wing organizations that actively work to subvert gay marriage legislation. It's not just about their CEO's personal views. They've donated millions of dollars already and will probably keep on doing it.
This was known before he made the comments that he made. Why hasn't this boycott happened before now? Because he made the dumb political/religious comments.
ON THE OTHER END (of which you'll agree with me)
Me and my dad an argument about how he went to purchase Chik-fil-a (basically him just shouting over me with me failing to get many words in at all). I said it was dumb to go out and buy chik-fil-a In response he said his reasons were anti-government censorship (said this pretty damn angrily) because some gov officials said they didn't want Chik-Fil-A in their town since the CEO of chik-fil-a said the vieled anti-gay things that he said and the gov officials said that was the reasons that they all did it, not because of their anti-gay sentiment. I know this is complete bullshit reason because my dad has never really rallied for anti-censorship in the past. This is just him thinking "huh all the right wingers are doing this! I'm a right winger! I should join them! Especially, since this is easy, and I get chicken!"
I say I know he's dumb for this. I read an article by this guy Noah Michelson. Said it better than I could say it myself:
I have a hard time believing that there would be lines around the block at Burger King if its CEO gave an interview where he or she stated, "I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage... black and white people should not be allowed to get married,'" and had also donated millions of dollars to white supremacist organizations.
Though perhaps scratch out the hate groups part because:
I also just had an argument with someone about the hate groups thing. She said that the groups that they send money to are dumb religious groups that push their religious agenda (oh hey basically every religious group ever). but hardly classify as actual hate groups. Like at least not on par with groups like the KKK or Westboro Bapists. If they are hate groups, so is 99% of christian churches. She also told me that their is a lot of misinformation. for instance. One of the groups Chik-Fil-A donates to is is the family research council. This is a group that mindlessly promotes their religious beliefs but they also did NOT try and push laws in Uganda to get gay's killed. In fact they pushed against it.
FRC does not support the Uganda bill, and does not support the death penalty for homosexuality -- nor any other penalty which would have the effect of inhibiting compassionate pastoral, psychological and medical care and treatment for those who experience same-sex attractions or who engage in homosexual conduct.
again. Obviously fucking crazy people. but not crazy murderous/violent people. *shrugs*
BOTH SIDES ARE WASTING THEIR TIME(edit with their methodology). If I wanted to avoid purchasing at a place because of their crappy dumb beliefs I'd be missing out on a lot of cool stuff. Since most of them have assholes running them. No more Sunny-D (OK, I already don't like the stuff but still), no more meat products, no more playing Activision or EA games, no more Nike shoes, etc. I don't because I like these products despite their CEO's generally being dicks (now or in the past).
Also I kind of regret having the argument with my dad because was apparently drunk and he is a stubborn irrational man-baby at the best of times when it comes to politics.
That's why people organized a day of support for them: to offset the lost revenue from the boycott, so that they can continue to spend money on fostering discrimination.
Even if there were people that would do so for such reasons, I somehow doubt most of them would be informed enough to make such a reason their main purpose in doing this. Sure their cited reason (First Amendment Rights!) Is very clearly bullshit. but even if it wasn't a bullshit reason, IT WOULD STILL BE A DUMB REASON TO BUY A COMPANIES PRODUCT EN-MASSE. That isn't how you change things politically. Its how you get delicious and unhealthy fast food.
I'm kind of hoping you didn't know about that fact because otherwise it's pretty awful that you've just called the LGBT activists and their allies "very very dumb" for standing up to this.
I feel that even the people with the best of intentions have their moments of dumbness. I support the LGBT community in so that I agree with them on the actual issue, that they should be allowed to legally marry. I don't agree with them on their methodology in this case.
To top it all off, individual managers and employees of Chik-Fil-A do not all share their beliefs with their almighty CEO. You guys have probably seen it but there is this video of some CFO driving up and harassing a Chik-Fil-A Employee and its pretty disgusting. I don't think their are a lot of LGBT people that would do that, I think he was probably a loner in that respect but GOD DAMN was he being a totally moronic asshole and obviously hurt his cause FAR MORE than he helped it.
The whole Chic-Fil-A support day, tiny as it may be in the grand scheme of things, is imo one of the most disgusting things I've seen in quite some time. People munching on chicken sandwiches so that gay people can continue to be mistreated. It's truly the American spirit condensed into its purest form.
Yeah tiny and fucking dumb. But you got to realize that their rational wasn't "I'm eating this because FUCK GAYS" It was "I'm eating this because I'm a good christian/republican". Which is pretty terrible in its own way.
You're joke/serious comment on American spirit is deflected by my anti-patriotic attitude and total apathy of national pride. I'm an American because I was born here and don't care to move, not something to be ashamed or proud of. I wish I could say that same about my dad if he read the comment.
If Chick-Fil-A hates gays then they don't want gay people money IMO. That money goes into some hateful ass shit I don't want to fund, and it's sad that your only rationale is "but their junky fast food chicken is so worth it..."
One of Chik-Fil-A's top dogs said it because he's an old religious nut. I'll admit I don't want to fund them either. but I'm not going out of my way to avoid their delicious chicken. I sorry, I mean have you ever HAD their chicken? Even if you have and did not care for it (AGH WHAT), its pretty unique. I'd be hard pressed to find an alternative, let alone one within a reasonable driving distance. Don't be reductive/dismissive by calling it "junky fast food chicken".
http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288 (http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288) Mei posted this on FB, well worth a read.
I'll read it when I can (probably today).
I'm sure I have plenty of holes in my argument and I didn't say everything I wanted to due to a bit of fatigue. /excuse
EDIT: Fixed some grammar/readability issues.
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americans making the only political statement that they understand or are capable of: buying things
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I've had Chick Fil A and it was garbage but who cares how delicious it is you're seriously telling me that it's cool to directly fund all sorts of shit that hurts LGBT people because "well the chicken is so good!!!"
I mean if you're gonna criticize the boycots you're gonna have to find something other than "I LIKE TO GOBBLE DOWN FAST FOOD CHICKEN THO" because if that's your only argument then I'm pretty goddamn disgusted with you right now. Sorry about your oppression, gay people, I just love fast food chicken so much!
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I mean I'm really getting sick of this in general I think there's a lot to criticize about boycots and the opposite (going to chick-fil-a in support) like this--basically like what tristero said--but you do not know how many people I've seen saying "Man I really disagree with Chick-Fil-A but I love their chicken so much so oh well!!!"
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"I was going to try to make a difference until I found out I'd have to give up my greasy fast food, ha ha nevermind"
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aaaaa seriously you got offended that i called your fast food chicken junky fast food chicken that is what it is i mean fuck i love the shit out of kfc but i still know it's junky fast food chicken
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there's a lot of posts i hope you like them i am just disgusted at your attitude that "both sides are wasting their time" as if gay people are SUPPOSED to be funding chick-fil-a, you really don't understand why a gay person wouldn't want to give money to a company that goes out of its way to make it very clear they aren't welcome? i doubt the LGBT community thinks they're going to bankrupt chick-fil-a but they sure as hell don't want to directly fund shit that fights them
you aren't even expected to boycot it by the way but you sure as hell aren't gonna win any medals for telling the people who are that they're idiots
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even though all this pro/anti stuff probably accounts for about 1/32 of chick fila's profits, at least the boycotting side comes from something real that actually matters to people for good reason. the BUY GREASECHICKEN ON PURPOSE side is a total joke and yeah it is literally the American Dream
there are a lot of other companies that, following the same beliefs, should be boycotted too tho
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yeah like i know that most of my purchases are funding gross shit but i don't just go "oh well i like having things so i guess it's okay" i know it's fuckin' not okay and i DEFINITELY am not gonna tell people who boycott them for those reasons that they're dumb and wasting their time and i especially am not going to knowingly fund shit that targets its hate at me personally
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alan moore had a pretty good article in response to the London riots last year, calling them a consumerist responses to oppression. looting and burning shops, instead of actual seats of power like banks, government buildings, police stations, is an expression of people wanting to consume as much as they'd like - not an expression of anything relating to equality or fairness in society. it's also like OWS (outside of OWS-Oakland) protesting not for an overthrow of the system, but just for their own place within that system that allows them to continue chugging along with the comfortable middle class lifestyle that their parents had.
the idiocy surrounding a bunch of lardy assholes lining up to get their trash-food is, for me, just another example of the same thing: political activity as a consumerist action. i wonder how many of those people are even very committed bigots? i think the more important thing for them is that they be allowed to be savvy, individualist consumers, which means eating their artery clogging garbage regardless of what wider political implications it might have. politics is just another brand that you wear to indentify yourself, and they can identify themselves as proud, rugged, individualistic, freedom-loving red blooded americans by lining up for their overpriced factory farmed chicken parts. the framing that's gone on in the conservative media is brilliant - they can turn a couple hundred thousand morons expressing their shrink-wrapped identity in to more fuel for the culture war, which equates to more ad sales and page-views for their products. not to mention the fact that chik-fil-a is probably making out like bandits from this whole thing.
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You know, Warped655 is really starting to appear like a stereotypical right-winger to me. I thought he was better than that, but he seems extremely intent on interpreting everything in favor of the right-wing agenda, like he favors it.
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Dude warped do you really not know anything about Chick-fil-a? It wasn't just "some higher up", it was the fuckin owner that said it. And regardless of whether you think all the managers share the same beliefs (hint: they do, it's part of their whole image. Their whole point is that they support Christian fundamentalist values or whatever bullshit; and it's not like in-n-out who print JOHN 3:16 on their cups or whatever, they actively espouse those beliefs), their profits fund anti-LGBT movements and legislation. It's like saying "oh mormons aren't so bad just let them believe whatever they want". If it was just that nobody would care, it's that they mobilize and fund huge amounts of anti-LGBT propaganda and all kinds of shit.
I mean you can't just say "YOU GUYS THIS IS POINTLESS TO TALK ABOUT" because it's actually important. Nobody gives a shit what some random person believes in, and if it was just the owners' personal beliefs nobody would give two shits; it's because they actively participate and fund in anti-LGBT bullshit, and that's why it's important.
Also "I don't care what they do, I just want their cool shit" is the worst reason for doing anything. You don't get your precious greasy chicken? Oh no, screw the gays lets get greasy and party!
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Also I don't wanna sit here and say YOU'RE TERRIBLE I just want to point out that you've obviously thought a lot about this but it doesn't seem like you've thought about it too DEEPLY if you see what I mean.
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oops ignore this
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Anyone who's idle in the face of injustice is complicit.
This was known before he made the comments that he made. Why hasn't this boycott happened before now? That's because he made the dumb politial/religious comments.
I don't think you really understand how these things come to be. Boycotts take time to organize. It takes time to get the message through to everybody who might be willing to participate. It usually takes some media attention (sometimes the alternative media, in this case the mainstream).
Furthermore, I don't see why you're insisting that the boycott is supposedly about the CEO's personal views. It's been made pretty clear that this is about his money being used to actively oppress people). When a CEO of a company makes his horrible personal views known to the world he's practically inviting people to look at his record, and that's one of the things that got the ball rolling.
I also just had an argument with someone about the hate groups thing. She said that the groups that they send money to are dumb religious groups that push their religious agenda (oh hey basically every religious group ever). but hardly classify as actual hate groups. Like at least not on par with groups like the KKK or Westboro Bapists. If they are hate groups, so is 99% of christian churches. She also told me that their is a lot of misinformation. for instance. One of the groups Chik-Fil-A donates to is is the family research council.
Now you're just being apologetic. You admit that Chik-fil-a is donating to these groups, but "they're not so bad" because "they're only against gay marriage, and it's not like they're racists or anything". What kind of a defense is that? Do you believe gay marriage should be illegal? If not, why on earth would you tout their beliefs as a good thing?
This is pure homophobia, and although some of these organizations may not be classified as hate groups (note: the Family Research Council has been called a hate group (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council) by the well-respected Southern Poverty Law Center), we have to acknowledge that they're no better than the KKK. The KKK was against full citizenship for black people, the FRC is against full citizenship for gay people. It's astonishing to me you can defend this.
This is a group that mindlessly promotes their religious beliefs but they also did NOT try and push laws in Uganda to get gay's killed. In fact they pushed against it.
again. Obviously fucking crazy people. but not crazy murderous people. *shrugs*
You're just posting propaganda now. First of all, if I were to list all the horrible things the FRC is responsible for, this post would likely go over the length limit. And actually, they are involved in the Uganda "kill the gays" bill. Every single important individual who went to Uganda to push this legal murder of gay people is actually involved with the FRC. Every one. The only reason they finally put out a statement against the bill (undercut somewhat by them actively lobbying to defeat a resolution condemning the bill) is because of some very good reporting on the matter that clearly implicated them, such as by Rachel Maddow. They couldn't keep actively working to further the bill anymore without destroying their reputation domestically.
I'm rather surprised at all of this, actually. I'm well aware that you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, but now you're just eating up right-wing propaganda and spitting it out here without a shred of critical thought.
BOTH SIDES ARE WASTING THEIR TIME. If I wanted to avoid purchasing at a place because of their crappy dumb beliefs I'd be missing out on a lot of cool stuff.
If a fast food chicken sandwich is more important than you than the rights of gay people, fine. Your decision. But stop telling people not to fight back. It's obviously easy for you to say, since you're not the one whose throat is being stepped on. This is just privilege talking as usual.
Even if there were people that would do so for such reasons, I somehow doubt most of them would be informed enough to make such a reason their main purpose in doing this. Sure their cited reason (First Amendment Rights!) Is very clearly bullshit.
Actually, the "first amendment" reason didn't come until much later, because the attempted ban of Chik-fil-a in some small local community came long after the idea of organizing a day of support for the company.
but even if it wasn't a bullshit reason, IT WOULD STILL BE A DUMB REASON TO BUY A COMPANIES PRODUCT EN-MASSE. That isn't how you change things politically. Its how you get delicious and unhealthy fast food.
As much as I hated the disgusting day of support for Chik-fil-a, this is how you change things: by well-organized personal protests with large turnouts. It turned out to be extremely easy in this particular case because the protest consisted of driving to your local fast food restaurant and ordering something, but it's still the basic template.
This notion that protest actions are ineffectual as a rule is just naive, and the reason people make this observation is because you can never immediately see the results of such an action. But just like the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s had its impact through massive protests, the protesters have in this case shown the world that this disgusting anti-gay fast food vendor actually has a base of support. That matters in every aspect of society, not the least of which is the politicians who make the rules and have to answer to their constituents.
Yeah tiny and fucking dumb. But you got to realize that their rational wasn't "I'm eating this because FUCK GAYS" It was "I'm eating this because I'm a good christian/republican". Which is pretty terrible in its own way.
Actually, no, it was the former. There are a number of social issues that the so-called Religious Right identifies with. The only one that Chik-fil-a has made a big fuss about was the issue of marriage equality. You can check this yourself by going through the record of the people who supported the protest or who covered it: try to find even one mention of the other issues.
You're joke/serious comment on American spirit is deflected by my anti-patriotic attitude and total apathy of national pride.
Such grandeur to say that my comment on the American spirit is "deflected" by you, as if you represent the American people.
One of Chik-Fil-A's top dogs said it because he's an old religious nut. I'll admit I don't want to fund them either. but I'm not going out of my way to avoid their delicious chicken. I sorry, I mean have you ever HAD their chicken? Even if you have and did not care for it (AGH WHAT), its pretty unique. I'd be hard pressed to find an alternative, let alone one within a reasonable driving distance. Don't be reductive/dismissive by calling it "junky fast food chicken".
I'm really astonished by how straight a face you're keeping while telling someone not to care about gay people actively being oppressed because the oppressor makes such great chicken sandwiches. Please refer back to my earlier comment about this being so representative of the American spirit and tell me again how you single-handedly deflect my point.
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Anyone who's idle in the face of injustice is complicit.
you'll find this engraved on my heart, fyi
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you'll find this engraved on my heart, fyi
the most hardcore of places to get a tattoo.
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"If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Desmond Tutu
Or the title of Howard Zinn's memoires:
"You can't be neutral on a moving train."
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Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.
...
But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.
from that piece posted a couple of pages back
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YEAH BUT OH MY GOD HAVE YOU HAD THEIR CHICKEN IT MAKES ME JIZZ MY OWN PANTS
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btw Warped655 I'm not saying you're required to take part in the boycott (even though yeah you shorta kinda should), I'm saying that if you're so infatuated with their products that you don't want to protest them, you should at least have the basic moral decency to not tell others they should drop their principles. By doing that, you're projecting your own personal choice among conflicting interests onto other people.
And I think that's also what's driving the silly notion that a boycott just doesn't help: you personally can't make the choice to join, so you have to defame the movement so that idly standing by is not such a bad thing. I'm thousands of kilometers away and I know not to go to Chik-fil-a if I ever get the chance: would that have been possible without a well-organized movement? The practical result of all of this is that this company is very likely going to have much less profit to give to these hateful right-wing groups. Yet the protest movement is "not how you change things politically". Does anyone actually believe that except you? Open your eyes to what's happening and critically evaluate the events that are unfolding. Just to note one example, Jon Stewart covered the counterprotest recently and turned the entire anti-gay movement into a laughing stock. And not through a distortion of their views, but simply by accurately displaying them. And he's not alone. This Chik-fil-a protest has the capacity to become a quite important step towards marriage equality because it has woken people up to just how broad and large a public support base there is. Do you think a massive boycott of a moderately large fast food place for the purpose of gay rights could have happened 10 years ago?
Stop eating up right-wing propaganda and take a look outside your window is what I suggest you should do.
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lol I hadn't even noticed until now how nicely the phrasing "eating up propaganda" goes with this whole specific issue.
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I looked after hearing about all this stuff, and there isn't even a Chick-fil-a in my state at all.
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I've had Chick Fil A and it was garbage but who cares how delicious it is you're seriously telling me that it's cool to directly fund all sorts of shit that hurts LGBT people because "well the chicken is so good!!!"
I'm not saying its not some level of BAD per se, but its not bad enough to stop me from eating Chik-Fil-A. Kind of like pirating shit on the internet. Though yeah maybe this is a little worse than that. IDK honestly.
I mean if you're gonna criticize the boycots you're gonna have to find something other than "I LIKE TO GOBBLE DOWN FAST FOOD CHICKEN THO" because if that's your only argument then I'm pretty goddamn disgusted with you right now. Sorry about your oppression, gay people, I just love fast food chicken so much!
I rarely eat there! I'm on a diet (kind of). So "gobble" is a bit strong. And honestly, yeah, I'm sorry that Chik-Fil-A has shitty ethics, even a little sorry that the money I pay them partially goes to assholes but not sorry enough to not occasionally eat their chicken (like seriously maybe once every 2-4 months).
I mean I'm really getting sick of this in general I think there's a lot to criticize about boycots and the opposite (going to chick-fil-a in support) like this--basically like what tristero said--but you do not know how many people I've seen saying "Man I really disagree with Chick-Fil-A but I love their chicken so much so oh well!!!"
Yeah I'm in the minority there.
aaaaa seriously you got offended that i called your fast food chicken junky fast food chicken that is what it is i mean fuck i love the shit out of kfc but i still know it's junky fast food chicken
Where did I say I was offended? Also KFC isn't 1/10 as good IMO. I said you were being overly reductive. I'm not going to deny that Chik-Fil-A IS IN FACT "junky fast food chicken". (though maybe not junky unless I assume you meant unhealthy as in junk food) But that to me its one of the few damn places I can go to eat that I like. I'm a picky motherfucker, I don't tolerate most food so losing an option like Chik-Fil-A is a bit more to me than just a fast food joint.
there's a lot of posts i hope you like them i am just disgusted at your attitude that "both sides are wasting their time" as if gay people are SUPPOSED to be funding chick-fil-a,
I can say that its not my fight (not that I'd fight that way anyway). I don't expect gay people to fund Chik-Fil-A, I don't expect them not to either, by buying/not buying their chicken. They aren't SUPPOSED to do anything. They can do whatever the fuck they want.
you really don't understand why a gay person wouldn't want to give money to a company that goes out of its way to make it very clear they aren't welcome? i doubt the LGBT community thinks they're going to bankrupt chick-fil-a but they sure as hell don't want to directly fund shit that fights them
I guess you could say that they are sending a message? but there are likely other ways of sending the same message without telling people to deprive themselves of stuff they like. I don't blame them for trying this method. I even understand it to a degree. I just don't think its the right way to do it.
you aren't even expected to boycot it by the way but you sure as hell aren't gonna win any medals for telling the people who are that they're idiots
Don't expect to. I'm no champion. :P
yeah like i know that most of my purchases are funding gross shit but i don't just go "oh well i like having things so i guess it's okay" i know it's fuckin' not okay and i DEFINITELY am not gonna tell people who boycott them for those reasons that they're dumb and wasting their time and i especially am not going to knowingly fund shit that targets its hate at me personally
OK then. So you acknowledge that some things that you buy support awful things. but You don't cease your purchasing. This is the same case for me. I just think people are dumb for depriving themselves of shit they like. If they didn't like it in the first place, they aren't boycotting really at all, because they never would have bought it in the first place. I guess I see the idea of boycotting to be really dumb on an individual person level.
You know, Warped655 is really starting to appear like a stereotypical right-winger to me. I thought he was better than that, but he seems extremely intent on interpreting everything in favor of the right-wing agenda, like he favors it.
I've been called a dumb liberal as well. So IDK what the fuck I am. If I'm favoring the right, I'm not doing it consciously. But I guess you have no reason to believe me. :/
My post will continue, I fear I'm going to end up having to split my post in 2 later anyway so I'm doing it now.
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This is from a few pages back, but it caught my eye.
alan moore had a pretty good article in response to the London riots last year, calling them a consumerist responses to oppression. looting and burning shops, instead of actual seats of power like banks, government buildings, police stations, is an expression of people wanting to consume as much as they'd like - not an expression of anything relating to equality or fairness in society.
I don't think this is a good characterization of the riots, by the way. I haven't read his arguments, but the root of the problem can be found in the social conditions under which the people who took part in the riots find themselves. It reminds me a bit of complaints of misogyny in hip hop, which almost without exception fail to take societal context into account (which doesn't necessarily make them invalid, but they do miss the point). These things are essentially functions of oppression, and to understand them we have to look at the full picture.
To put it in simple terms, the already high level of poverty among the lower classes of England has recently been strongly exacerbated by global economic problems followed by local austerity. Tottenham, where the riots started, was particularly bad with a very great deal of people claiming jobless benefits, and it had recently seen the announcement of massive cuts to the tune of £41 million that would further destroy what local initiatives there still were. So not only was the situation close to unbearable, it the only thing people could look forward to was things getting even worse. When people are forced to live under these conditions without any reason to believe it's going to get better, they're going to get angry with institutions across the board, usually with only a few, if any, exceptions. I haven't seen recent polls for England, but they're probably similar to US polls that show support for congress nearly in the single digits. We can see why a base of support for direct action exists. This generalizes across various time periods and locations (the French Revolution is another good example).
What ultimately set off the riot was a sense of abject injustice after a fatal police shooting, one of the many that were regularly taking place, mostly against black people, that people perceived as illegitimate. It was basically the affaire du collier of the London riots. The police were callous as always, refused to meet with the young man's family and disregarded their feelings (and that's actually why there was initially a nonviolent gathering at the police station). Whether or not the person shot was guilty is not very important because it was not known at the time. People believed they had a legitimate grievance, and that's what they acted upon. Although these fatal police shootings were happening quite often, this one in particular would serve as the spark for something much greater. Contrary to what has been told in the media, the people who took part in the riots were simply regular, young folks from the area. They weren't football hooligans or outsiders. The riots were able to take place because the people of the area felt like they were being treated like trash undeserving of any social or economic justice that you can just shoot and arrest and disenfranchise to your heart's content, without ever having to face the consequences.
So whether or not the riots were "consumerist" in nature seems a bit dishonest to me, if the pursuit is to understand why this happened and to prevent its repetition. It seems to me like this description can only be used to defame poor people. "They were just being greedy" is one of the typical conclusions that people (mostly the conservatives) drew from the fact that the poor became so desperate about their situation that they turned to violence and just started setting everything around them on fire. It shouldn't be so interesting or important to look at exactly what the people did during the riot, because it's completely unsurprising that poor, desperate people would use the opportunity to go around stealing things. That doesn't mean the riot was started for that purpose, and it obscures the desperation of the situation these people found themselves in.
Under a basic level of social-economic conditions, without abject poverty, without racially lopsided police misconduct, and without a complete lack of opportunity, these riots would never have happened. I think everyone deserves those things, and whether or not some poor guy stole a TV from a burning electronics store doesn't change the facts. So I think Alan Moore is obscuring the situation here.
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We have two chik-fil-a's within short driving distance of each other.
On the day of the boycott, the one in the campus foodcourt ended up closing early without getting any business.
The other chik-fil-a had cars lined up around the block from opening until after the sun set that same day.
The only thing I want to say beyond that is I do not want to see chik-fil-a become a southern only food-chain over this, even though I have already accepted that happening as a complete inevitability.
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it's cheap and easy to say "smart people believe in this" but yeah smart people believe in this
if we haven't already we'll figure out hateful people are actually like literally their synapses are going in a loop like 'gay people deserve rights too that's unpossible' and it is literally their brain glitching out because they can't overclock it that much to comprehend. And I know I said literally already but I can't say literally enough like some computer overheating and crashing
also religion fires up the same brain regions as warm comfy pillows and cheeseburgers. Or a warm comfy pillow in the shape of a cheeseburger
we will literally be able to quantify that playing one game of Sudoku moves you exactly x notches politically to the left
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Dude warped do you really not know anything about Chick-fil-a? It wasn't just "some higher up", it was the fuckin owner that said it. And regardless of whether you think all the managers share the same beliefs (hint: they do, it's part of their whole image. Their whole point is that they support Christian fundamentalist values or whatever bullshit; and it's not like in-n-out who print JOHN 3:16 on their cups or whatever, they actively espouse those beliefs), their profits fund anti-LGBT movements and legislation. It's like saying "oh mormons aren't so bad just let them believe whatever they want". If it was just that nobody would care, it's that they mobilize and fund huge amounts of anti-LGBT propaganda and all kinds of shit.
Yeah I'll admit I lack clarity of who the guy that said it exactly was in the companies structure. I thought he WAS the owner then someone told me he was the owner's son (wait what), then I was told he just didn't own the company, now you are telling me he does. Some people say one source is more legit than the other so I'm seriously lost on that.
But yeah saying every manager and employee of Chik-Fil-A is a gay hater basically a statistical impossibility. Maybe MAJORITY. But how would you even know that? what is your sources? Was their a survey? An depth investigation? from who?
Again, I've heard conflicting reports on how bad the organizations exactly are. I took the rightwing stance "that they aren't so bad" because 'innocent until proven guilty'. In my eyes they are still not proven guilty. By default I assume innocent. So if you could, link me some sources. I'm getting most of my shit from second hand (talking to people in person, especially multiple people, makes it hard to fact check everyone even with access to Google.)
I mean you can't just say "YOU GUYS THIS IS POINTLESS TO TALK ABOUT" because it's actually important. Nobody gives a shit what some random person believes in, and if it was just the owners' personal beliefs nobody would give two shits; it's because they actively participate and fund in anti-LGBT bullshit, and that's why it's important.
I never said it was pointless to talk about. I understand its important. Nor did I say screw the gays. Just like when I pirate software I'm not saying "fuck developers". If you think I am then I guess there is no where to go from here because this has become subjective.
Also "I don't care what they do, I just want their cool shit" is the worst reason for doing anything. You don't get your precious greasy chicken? Oh no, screw the gays lets get greasy and party!
You are over blowing what I'm saying. I shouldn't have to damage my lifestyle to stay ethical.
Anyone who's idle in the face of injustice is complicit.
See I don't completely agree, complicit to me in this case would be where you basically have nothing to lose. If a bully is beating someone up I wouldn't interfere directly because I don't want to have my teeth knocked out. I might do something else to stop it if I think I can do it without worry that the bully may come after me later though or maybe if I think I can take the bully on without repercussions to myself.
I don't think you really understand how these things come to be. Boycotts take time to organize. It takes time to get the message through to everybody who might be willing to participate. It usually takes some media attention (sometimes the alternative media, in this case the mainstream).
Yeah I don't because I don't participate in boycotts. :P
Furthermore, I don't see why you're insisting that the boycott is supposedly about the CEO's personal views. It's been made pretty clear that this is about his money being used to actively oppress people). When a CEO of a company makes his horrible personal views known to the world he's practically inviting people to look at his record, and that's one of the things that got the ball rolling.
Because it really doesn't seem completely clear whether or not the reason is one thing or another that people are doing either. I don't think most of the people on either side are really on the same page. Its just TEAM A VS TEAM B. People argue about EVERYTHING TO WIN THE ARGUMENT AND BE SATISFIED. We don't argue for truth or good. We argue to assert that we are right, good, or just better/best.
But yeah, your point that the guy opened his record up for more investigation is a pretty good argument actually. And I sort of thought you might go with that actually (see I'm doing it to, trying to win... and I kind of hate myself for it because its not logical) BUT I really do think there are plenty of people boycotting Chik-Fil-A merely because of his comments. Which is a dumb reason.
SURE some, probably even MOST of the people actually boycotting it (and not just saying they wont eat at a restaurant they never would have eaten at anyway) are doing it for the reasons you specify. I still look at them as aliens for giving up something they really like.
Now you're just being apologetic. You admit that Chik-fil-a is donating to these groups, but "they're not so bad" because "they're only against gay marriage, and it's not like they're racists or anything". What kind of a defense is that? Do you believe gay marriage should be illegal? If not, why on earth would you tout their beliefs as a good thing?
No I stated that I don't think it should be illegal. I DON'T TOUT THEIR BELEIFS AS A GOOD THING C'MON MAN YOU READ MY POST. I'm saying on a level from 1 to 10 of being dicks they are on the lower scale of dickery and dumbness.
This is pure homophobia, and although some of these organizations may not be classified as hate groups (note: the Family Research Council has been called a hate group (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council) by the well-respected Southern Poverty Law Center), we have to acknowledge that they're no better than the KKK. The KKK was against full citizenship for black people, the FRC is against full citizenship for gay people. It's astonishing to me you can defend this.
My next question is how am I supposed to know that Southern Poverty Law Center is well respected? And I know I talk about SOURCES AND SHIT even my mind turns to: WAIT ISN'T THAT A FALLACY? Appeal to authority. Shit its almost like its technically impossible to know anything as a fact (because it is). I just go by whats statistically most likely. But yeah I defend them so much in that I didn't place them in the hole of "Morally bankrupt" like the KKK and Westboro. Again though it was second hand knowledge passed to me so... now I guess I'm not so sure. (I bet your at least somewhat satisfied that I've that I might have been wrong? But I always know that I might be wrong. I don't really trust any information completely. This was more of "I HEARD THIS ARGUMENT, HOW DO YOU RESPOND?" Should I not do that? I kind of like doing that.)
You're just posting propaganda now. First of all, if I were to list all the horrible things the FRC is responsible for, this post would likely go over the length limit. And actually, they are involved in the Uganda "kill the gays" bill. Every single important individual who went to Uganda to push this legal murder of gay people is actually involved with the FRC. Every one. The only reason they finally put out a statement against the bill (undercut somewhat by them actively lobbying to defeat a resolution condemning the bill) is because of some very good reporting on the matter that clearly implicated them, such as by Rachel Maddow. They couldn't keep actively working to further the bill anymore without destroying their reputation domestically.
OK, again. I back off here. I guess I did not know the facts, I just heard an argument and thought that I might see how you guys responded to it. (But I guess I should feel bad anyway? weird I just got a sense of deja vu)
I'm rather surprised at all of this, actually. I'm well aware that you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, but now you're just eating up right-wing propaganda and spitting it out here without a shred of critical thought.
Well, I guess I should have known you thought was wasn't very intelligent. :(
If a fast food chicken sandwich is more important than you than the rights of gay people, fine. Your decision. But stop telling people not to fight back. It's obviously easy for you to say, since you're not the one whose throat is being stepped on. This is just privilege talking as usual.
The fast food isn't more important that the rights of gay people. But I think losing out on the sandwich is unnecessary in fixing the problem. I'd rather just replace all the people that hate gay people in Chik-Fil-a with people that don't or destroy the anti-gay organizations they fund directly.
Actually, the "first amendment" reason didn't come until much later, because the attempted ban of Chik-fil-a in some small local community came long after the idea of organizing a day of support for the company.
OK, you got sources? (really I just want all the sources so I can absorb them later, I kind of want to shelve this dicussion untill I read more i guess. but I'll still obviously respond to further responses)
As much as I hated the disgusting day of support for Chik-fil-a, this is how you change things: by well-organized personal protests with large turnouts. It turned out to be extremely easy in this particular case because the protest consisted of driving to your local fast food restaurant and ordering something, but it's still the basic template.
OK I suppose this is jsut a case of me not wording things very well: Whether or not their effective, I think boycotting/or stuffing you face in reaction to this controversy is dumb. If I wasn't in the mood for chik-fil-a (sometimes is the case) I'm not going to go eat it because of some organized political event.
Boycotting can have an effect. But what you get isn't worth what you sacrifice for when you can jump right over the sacrifice part. While I don't know of to many things we can do, I'd be shocked if our only option was to sacrifice something like this to get legalized gay marriage.
I know that fast food chicken seems absurd as something one doesn't want to sacrifice but its just not something I can sacrifice in the case. and If I was I'd be disingenuous because I wouldn't care enough about their food in the first place. Like, I might be willing to stop going to burger king, or mcdonalds, or White Castle, because I don't like any of those fast food places very much anyway. But I'd hardly be boycotting them since I basically never go there anyway.
This notion that protest actions are ineffectual as a rule is just naive, and the reason people make this observation is because you can never immediately see the results of such an action. But just like the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s had its impact through massive protests, the protesters have in this case shown the world that this disgusting anti-gay fast food vendor actually has a base of support. That matters in every aspect of society, not the least of which is the politicians who make the rules and have to answer to their constituents.
See above.
Actually, no, it was the former. There are a number of social issues that the so-called Religious Right identifies with. The only one that Chik-fil-a has made a big fuss about was the issue of marriage equality. You can check this yourself by going through the record of the people who supported the protest or who covered it: try to find even one mention of the other issues.
Yeah, I know that this is the only issue. I'm saying that the people are mostly delusional and stubborn. Sure there are probably a couple that are truly hateful of gays. but you are assuming to much of these people that they even understand what the fuck they are doing. They all live in a republican 1950's dream world.
Such grandeur to say that my comment on the American spirit is "deflected" by you, as if you represent the American people.
I don't represent the american people. I don't have illusions of grandeur. I just figured what you said was directed at me.
Hell, I wouldn't consider myself grand if such were the case anyway. Despite what you might think I don't think I share all the same opinions of the Americans surrounding me.
I'm really astonished by how straight a face you're keeping while telling someone not to care about gay people actively being oppressed because the oppressor makes such great chicken sandwiches. Please refer back to my earlier comment about this being so representative of the American spirit and tell me again how you single-handedly deflect my point.
You can't see my face.
And I was never telling them to not care. I'm telling them you can care but I think you are crazy for giving up this delicious food.
Also semi-related:
The American spirit is "TYPE A PERSONALITIES ARE THE BEST" which I don't even closely resemble. American spirit is "You can always succeed if you work hard enough. If you are failing its your own fault and you have earned our disgust."
Go ahead and apply that to the other people, I don't worship type A's
When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.
See my above statements. I think its pretty absurd to suggest someone avoiding such a fight is 'cheering on the bully'.
btw Warped655 I'm not saying you're required to take part in the boycott (even though yeah you shorta kinda should), I'm saying that if you're so infatuated with their products that you don't want to protest them, you should at least have the basic moral decency to not tell others they should drop their principles. By doing that, you're projecting your own personal choice among conflicting interests onto other people.
I just can't relate to them is all. I used the word 'dumb'. that was my mistake.
And I think that's also what's driving the silly notion that a boycott just doesn't help: you personally can't make the choice to join, so you have to defame the movement so that idly standing by is not such a bad thing. I'm thousands of kilometers away and I know not to go to Chik-fil-a if I ever get the chance: would that have been possible without a well-organized movement? The practical result of all of this is that this company is very likely going to have much less profit to give to these hateful right-wing groups. Yet the protest movement is "not how you change things politically". Does anyone actually believe that except you? Open your eyes to what's happening and critically evaluate the events that are unfolding. Just to note one example, Jon Stewart covered the counterprotest recently and turned the entire anti-gay movement into a laughing stock. And not through a distortion of their views, but simply by accurately displaying them. And he's not alone. This Chik-fil-a protest has the capacity to become a quite important step towards marriage equality because it has woken people up to just how broad and large a public support base there is. Do you think a massive boycott of a moderately large fast food place for the purpose of gay rights could have happened 10 years ago?
Stop eating up right-wing propaganda and take a look outside your window is what I suggest you should do.
I just don't want to give up the damn chicken. And I don't think its wrong of me to partake. If there was an identical restaurant without the gay hating I'd be wrong here obviously.
Anyway, what you are saying is GREAT. If this shit works maybe Chik-Fil-A will stop their anti-gay ways. Everyone wins. Unless you are saying that you want Chik-Fil-A to go under instead... then not so great. But I doubt that is what you actually think.
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The only thing I want to say beyond that is I do not want to see chik-fil-a become a southern only food-chain over this, even though I have already accepted that happening as a complete inevitability.
Oh god yeah that would SUuuuuuck
I don't want to have to live in the south to get Chik-Fil-A.
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Yeah I'll admit I lack clarity of who the guy that said it exactly was in the companies structure. I thought he WAS the owner then someone told me he was the owner's son (wait what), then I was told he just didn't own the company, now you are telling me he does. Some people say one source is more legit than the other so I serious am lost of that.
Ugh, I haven't read the rest of your post yet but dude, all it takes is like 3 seconds to verify anything of these facts. On the Chick-fil-a wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_fil_a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_fil_a)) you can see the owner/guy who started it is S. Truett Cathy, he is still the chairman of the board, though probably not actively the CEO or anything like that. He's also the guy who made the statements, not his son. It doesn't matter that a bunch of apparently retarded people tell you conflicting advice, just go verify for yourself since it doesn't take long at all. I'm hesitant to read any more of your post since your ability to critically think and validate information stops at "WELL SOMEONE ELSE TOLD ME SOMETHING DIFFERENT". Apparently the people telling you things in your life are imbeciles, since all this factual information can be validated in a matter of seconds.
I shouldn't have to damage my lifestyle to stay ethical.
I don't want to just keep haranguing you but man, I don't get your logic. You don't want to "damage your lifestyle" (your lifestyle is apparently eating at a particular restaurant a couple times a month?) in order to stay ethical? What exactly are you willing to do to stay ethical? I mean, what else is there? If you aren't interested in changing your lifestyle (especially when that just amounts to one particular food chain) for ethical purposes then you just aren't an ethical person, and ethical matters don't concern you. That's your prerogative, I guess, but don't think for a second that you are an ethical person, because you aren't. Like dada mentioned, you are complicit in this ethical bomb because you want your precious, delicious chicken.
Appeal to authority.
Uggggh, dude I gotta stop reading your post now because I'll have an aneurysm but it's not an appeal to authority when you discredit a flawed and biased organization for one that has a good record and transparency. I don't know anything about either of these places, but there's no appeal to authority fallacy happening here.
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I should have said damage my happiness.
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Jeez I'm not even halfway through reading your post and it's so completely awful I can barely continue.
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Can I be partially ethical? I'm willing to help someone in need if it isn't a bother to me. Pay back a debt that I'm free to not pay, scratch a friends back, help someone move, help someone study?
I just wont give up certain things.
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alan moore had a pretty good article in response to the London riots last year, calling them a consumerist responses to oppression. looting and burning shops, instead of actual seats of power like banks, government buildings, police stations, is an expression of people wanting to consume as much as they'd like - not an expression of anything relating to equality or fairness in society. it's also like OWS (outside of OWS-Oakland) protesting not for an overthrow of the system, but just for their own place within that system that allows them to continue chugging along with the comfortable middle class lifestyle that their parents had.
the idiocy surrounding a bunch of lardy assholes lining up to get their trash-food is, for me, just another example of the same thing: political activity as a consumerist action. i wonder how many of those people are even very committed bigots? i think the more important thing for them is that they be allowed to be savvy, individualist consumers, which means eating their artery clogging garbage regardless of what wider political implications it might have. politics is just another brand that you wear to indentify yourself, and they can identify themselves as proud, rugged, individualistic, freedom-loving red blooded americans by lining up for their overpriced factory farmed chicken parts. the framing that's gone on in the conservative media is brilliant - they can turn a couple hundred thousand morons expressing their shrink-wrapped identity in to more fuel for the culture war, which equates to more ad sales and page-views for their products. not to mention the fact that chik-fil-a is probably making out like bandits from this whole thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-QpQvjZVKQ
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It reminds me a bit of complaints of misogyny in hip hop, which almost without exception fail to take societal context into account (which doesn't necessarily make them invalid, but they do miss the point). These things are essentially functions of oppression, and to understand them we have to look at the full picture.
sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here?
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tl;dr
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Can I be partially ethical? I'm willing to help someone in need if it isn't a bother to me. Pay back a debt that I'm free to not pay, scratch a friends back, help someone move, help someone study?
I just wont give up certain things.
That's not what ethics are. Ethics are a real discussion of the concepts of good and evil. If you deem something evil and are complicit in the evil action taking place, then you are not really against that action, and your ethics are not being enforced. Peoples' ethical positions change from all variety of things, but if you aren't willing to stand up for what you think is right, then you are not being ethical. You can't just stand up for something when it will impact you directly, that's just a half-assed sort of attitude that doesn't make much of a statement other than you don't care about standing up for what you believe in.
Put it this way: if Chick-fil-a were against interracial marriages and espoused racial purity, and they actively put money towards organizations to oppress minorities and prevent interracial marriage from being legal, would you still say "eh, whatever, I like their chicken."? Just because the current issue doesn't impact you directly nor offend you personally doesn't mean it's not important nor deserving of serious action. My point is that their attitude is disgusting and ignoring it because you like their food and don't want to stop eating it is just weak as hell.
You can think whatever you want about protests but don't debase the people doing it because you think it's pointless.
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That's not what ethics are. Ethics are a real discussion of the concepts of good and evil. If you deem something evil and are complicit in the evil action taking place, then you are not really against that action, and your ethics are not being enforced.
This reminds me of the argument that Walt Disney was a Nazi sympathizer. People would say "oh he just didn't choose a side" but then he would be the only person hosting and catering for well known Nazis while other organisations declined.
"in the 1930s he welcomed German filmmaker and Nazi propagandist Leni Riefenstahl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl) to Hollywood when she was promoting her two-part film Olympia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_%281938_film%29).[112] Indeed, even after news broke in November 1938 about Kristallnacht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht), Disney alone among Hollywood producers and studio bosses did not cancel his invitation to Riefenstahl."
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You know, I thought you were just misguided at first. But I was wrong. You have some pretty horrible views, and it seems you're more interested in "winning the discussion" than in actually giving serious thought to what I have to say.
Yeah I'll admit I lack clarity of who the guy that said it exactly was in the companies structure. I thought he WAS the owner then someone told me he was the owner's son (wait what), then I was told he just didn't own the company, now you are telling me he does. Some people say one source is more legit than the other so I'm seriously lost on that.
But yeah saying every manager and employee of Chik-Fil-A is a gay hater basically a statistical impossibility. Maybe MAJORITY. But how would you even know that? what is your sources? Was their a survey? An depth investigation? from who?
See, this is what I'm talking about when I say you look like you're a right-wing conservative. Whenever something is doubtful or not immediately clear, you immediately jump to the extreme right-wing side of the story by default, just as you are doing here.
First of all, let's just think about what's rational for a second. Would it make sense for a protest movement to spawn solely because the CEO of a medium-sized fast food chain is anti-gay? Or do you think it's more likely that it's their extremely deep pockets that are actively funding homophobia and the destruction of civil rights that has caused this boycott, and that the CEO's comments were just a way of unequivocally proving the point? Which of the two do you think is the better reason for people to start and take part in a protest? Again, I tell you, open your eyes. Then we look at the literature. Take a look at the protest movement and what they're putting out and notice that the facts are being reported as I said it: the company is funding homophobia, and that's why you shouldn't give them your money, because then you'll be actively working to oppress your fellow citizens. You can find these things out very easily.
I don't think you're interested in anything but denouncing and defaming the protest movement, because if only you can make them look as bad as possible, it doesn't matter so much that you'd rather have a chicken sandwich than support them. It's a pretty serious case of cognitive dissonance, and the fact that you've chosen the side of the oppressor (there is no middle ground, because you either do or you don't fund a homophobic hate group) is very disturbing.
Again, I've heard conflicting reports on how bad the organizations exactly are. I took the rightwing stance "that they aren't so bad" because 'innocent until proven guilty'. In my eyes they are still not proven guilty. By default I assume innocent. So if you could, link me some sources. I'm getting most of my shit from second hand (talking to people in person, especially multiple people, makes it hard to fact check everyone even with access to Google.)
Sorry, but I'm not going to hand you everything on a silver platter. The fact that they're massively funding homophobic hate groups has been well documented, and it's not being disputed by anyone. Do some research.
Its just TEAM A VS TEAM B.
No it isn't. It wasn't back when Martin Luther King Jr. was marching for civil rights for black people, and it isn't now. You'd have to be painfully oblivious and privileged to not know how deeply homophobic US society is, both in its people as well as in its institutions. This is not a regular disagreement. This is people who are actively working to oppress your fellow men and women, and you're standing there like furniture gawking at the "discussion" and wondering why people take such extreme measures as a boycott. Yeah, if you're completely oblivious to the world you might think of this as a simple A vs B discussion where both sides are equally entitled to their opinions and both sides should just be calm and orderly.
I still look at them as aliens for giving up something they really like.
I'm not surprised someone as privileged as you thinks it's alien to boycott a company that's actively funding homophobic oppression groups. You seem to not understand that there are certain people in this world who aren't full citizens and who are actually actively hurt by this. I'd certainly like to see you tell that to someone who can't marry, can't have the same partner benefits, and can't adopt children because of Chick-fil-a's funding.
No I stated that I don't think it should be illegal. I DON'T TOUT THEIR BELEIFS AS A GOOD THING C'MON MAN YOU READ MY POST. I'm saying on a level from 1 to 10 of being dicks they are on the lower scale of dickery and dumbness.
I'm not sure I believe you. You sure seem to be extremely intent on proving the protest useless and denouncing us for questioning the moral standard of Chick-fil-a. At any rate, whether you believe, you're actively working to bolster the anti-gay side. That's indisputable as long as you keep funding that company.
My next question is how am I supposed to know that Southern Poverty Law Center is well respected? And I know I talk about SOURCES AND SHIT even my mind turns to: WAIT ISN'T THAT A FALLACY? Appeal to authority.
Again, this is a matter of reading and keeping yourself informed. The SPLC is an extremely well-respected civil rights group, and if you'd read newspapers and other civil rights organizations and literature you'd know that.
The reason why I brought them up is because you said they weren't a hate group. They are a hate group. Obviously though, the question of whether something is a hate group or not is a matter of what your definition is and how diligently you do your research. I linked to the SPLC because they're known for getting it right. When an organization is labeled "hate group" by the SPLC, they'll have very good reasons for it.
This is a matter of informing yourself. Apparently you didn't even read the link I provided where they explain very succinctly why the FRC is a homophobic hate group.
Shit its almost like its technically impossible to know anything as a fact (because it is). I just go by whats statistically most likely.
There's a word for this. It's "guessing".
But yeah I defend them so much in that I didn't place them in the hole of "Morally bankrupt" like the KKK and Westboro. Again though it was second hand knowledge passed to me so... now I guess I'm not so sure. (I bet your at least somewhat satisfied that I've that I might have been wrong? But I always know that I might be wrong. I don't really trust any information completely. This was more of "I HEARD THIS ARGUMENT, HOW DO YOU RESPOND?" Should I not do that? I kind of like doing that.)
If you don't mind looking like a fool for eating up and spitting out right-wing propaganda, go right ahead. But if you're serious about understanding things, and perhaps your reputation for being pro-civil rights, you should check these things before you make a post. You can't post these things and then perform a karma houdini by saying "well, who knew?" and then expect everybody to just forget you ever said it.
Well, I guess I should have known you thought was wasn't very intelligent. :(
Actually it's more a matter of being lazy and not doing basic, easy research before you open your mouth.
The fast food isn't more important that the rights of gay people. But I think losing out on the sandwich is unnecessary in fixing the problem. I'd rather just replace all the people that hate gay people in Chik-Fil-a with people that don't or destroy the anti-gay organizations they fund directly.
You can't replace the people running the company (you probably couldn't even do that if it were publicly traded, but it isn't), and if you destroy one anti-gay organization the people who used to run that one will just start a new one. There's always going to be a market for homophobia, and there's really nothing you can do to destroy them to begin with.
The problem here is that you expect to be able to go forward without exerting any effort or giving anything up. That's naive. And it's very typical of someone as privileged as you who doesn't actually have to face the consequences. It's a distinct lack of empathy on your part.
OK, you got sources? (really I just want all the sources so I can absorb them later, I kind of want to shelve this dicussion untill I read more i guess. but I'll still obviously respond to further responses)
Nope. Go look it up yourself. I have no obligation whatsoever (morally or otherwise) to hand you everything on a platter.
But actually, it's not even about that small town I mentioned earlier that tried to ban Chick-fil-a. The "first amendment" argument gets misused everywhere in all sorts of pursuits, particularly conservative ones. The argument is that by trying to financially hurt a company for their anti-gay views, you're actually attacking the freedom of speech. Well, that has absolutely nothing to do with the First Amendment, which is something any sane person would know after reading it once (it's not very long, so go do that). You're perfectly entitled to boycott a company. That's, in fact, a use of free speech. But nevertheless, the First Amendment is invoked almost everywhere. It's a common trope in conservative politics.
OK I suppose this is jsut a case of me not wording things very well: Whether or not their effective, I think boycotting/or stuffing you face in reaction to this controversy is dumb.
This is why I'm so seriously disturbed by what you're saying. You actually think boycotting a company that gives money to anti-gay hate groups is "dumb". It's completely beyond me how any decent person could say that.
At least say "it's a good, valiant attempt to end oppression" and then say "but I can't support it because I love my chicken sandwiches too much". That would at least be honest and fair, if still awful.
Boycotting can have an effect. But what you get isn't worth what you sacrifice for when you can jump right over the sacrifice part. While I don't know of to many things we can do, I'd be shocked if our only option was to sacrifice something like this to get legalized gay marriage.
So you think people are "dumb" for boycotting a company that actively funds anti-gay hate groups that actively work to circumvent civil rights, and you're "shocked" that you should be forced to give up your chicken sandwich for basic dignity for your fellow men and women, and you think everybody should just stop this whole civil rights protest business until we come up with a way to do it that doesn't include giving up fast food.
Yeah, you're a fucking nutjob.
Yeah, I know that this is the only issue. I'm saying that the people are mostly delusional and stubborn. Sure there are probably a couple that are truly hateful of gays. but you are assuming to much of these people that they even understand what the fuck they are doing. They all live in a republican 1950's dream world.
It's pretty amazing that you're reduced to trying to assert that those people "just don't understand what they're doing". You're literally trying to convince me that even though these people are taking part in an anti-gay protest, you can't conclude that they're anti-gay because, who knows, maybe they're just idiots who don't know what they're doing.
Again: giving the benefit of the doubt (even though the doubt only exists in your mind, and not in anybody else's) in favor of the extreme right-wing. Almost as if you count yourself amongst them.
You can't see my face.
Sigh.
And I was never telling them to not care. I'm telling them you can care but I think you are crazy for giving up this delicious food.
And you're a crazy super-privileged guy who's never had to face homophobia and therefore have a very easy time telling activists they're "dumb". You're literally like those men who tell women they can't have abortions. Yeah, that's easy for them to say.
Also semi-related:
The American spirit is "TYPE A PERSONALITIES ARE THE BEST" which I don't even closely resemble. American spirit is "You can always succeed if you work hard enough. If you are failing its your own fault and you have earned our disgust."
You don't understand the point I was making, but I'm not going to go through the trouble of explaining it.
See my above statements. I think its pretty absurd to suggest someone avoiding such a fight is 'cheering on the bully'.
See the quotes I used by Desmond Tutu and Howard Zinn. You can't be neutral. If you buy Chick-fil-a, you're funding homophobia. Unless you're still in denial about the serious nature of these organizations, which have already received $5 million partly from your business. You're either a bully or you're fighting the bullies. One way or the other.
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sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here?
It's difficult to explain, but a good starting point is this article by bell hooks (http://race.eserver.org/misogyny.html).
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btw I can't stress this enough. The question is: will you continue to buy Chick-fil-a? The answer can only be yes or no. There's no middle ground. There's no neutral position. You either help fund the fundies or you help fight back (or perhaps this can be the neutral option if you're simply completely uninterested in their food).
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It's difficult to explain, but a good starting point is this article by bell hooks (http://race.eserver.org/misogyny.html).
ok, that's what I thought. what they're describing is pretty essential to understanding anything pertaining to society or other ppl, tho my favorite part of that article is the part where no one wants to hear the minorities aren't The Problem
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bell hooks owns and she's a Kentucky native hell yea
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warped if you are desperate to eat chick-fil-a you have to steal it or you are supporting anti-gay organisations by knowingly directing your currency right to them. become a thief, stop eating chick-fil-a, or be The Bad Guys.
this kind of 'i'm neutral which means i don't give a shit' stance is something i am encountering a bit of, and i think i had slight case of it myself for a while there, but i was wrong about that, obviously.
although there is a difference between inaction and learning that you are doing something harmful and shrugging it off in order to continue because you desire it. you don't get to just do whatever you want and still be a good person all the time, you know? you should think about how silly this thing where you don't want to adjust your life to be ethical really is. it doesn't actually make any sense.
so, you don't go around deliberately making people miserable, congratulations you aren't a sociopath. however, if you know there are negative consequences for undeserving people - and apparently you agree LGBT people don't deserve to be oppressed - due to your actions but you do something anyway for selfish reasons then that pretty much means you stink, even if the consequences for others isn't your motivation. this is basic adult level thought so you should get to grips with it, if you want people to have respect for you.
i'm not accusing you of being a right winger, but you clearly haven't given this any actual thought. maybe because you are afraid it means you don't get your chicken sandwich if you do? well like i said, steal it if you've got to!
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idk whats going on and maybe this is said already but been thinking about this somewhat: deciding not to buy something/some brands stuff makes a huge difference to companies eg imagine when 1 decliner becomes even just 10000.... ur regular accountant could explain this: that's not just loss profit, it's also lost money on logistics (to move the product to the place where it's sold), production etc etc, the losses are possibly twice or thricefold (esp in case of foods industry). you could bankrupt companies or destroy company management, idk i might be exaggarating values but turbulences in budgets etc affect even better what with shareholders' vote of confidence. this is just from common sense mostly alone though.
consumer power is undervalued/belittled by common people in general but when you think of it, it's probably one of the most powerful ways to affect the world on any scale these days than most legal lobbying/eg ngo's. food industry is/SHOULD be esp suspectible to this in globalization, should be relatively quick to react to consumer trends (cos it rots, you buy it regulary thus regular income... or no income to companies and farms etc).
not picking on warped but in case this hasn't been said...!! maybe smbdy learned something from this, maybe not, que sera...
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I just read someone making an extensive argument for buying Fast Food chicken sandwiches instead of supporting a cause for basic human rights. that just happened....
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This is the basic summary:
Warped is saying:
everybody should just stop this whole civil rights protest business until we come up with a way to do it that doesn't include giving up fast food.
But the essence you need to take away from this:
If you buy Chick-fil-a, you're funding homophobia.
The most important thing of all: now that you know this, will you STILL buy Chick-fil-a?
There is no trickery here, and there's no wordplay to make this issue any grayer. Forget about immediate noticeable changes your decision could ever have. Can you in good conscience eat at Chick-fil-a anymore?
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man, i can't seem to escape this debate. had an argument about this shit earlier today. insanely disappointing how many people are still generally OK with the idea of bigotry falling under freedom of speech. actually it's even more disappointing how many people honestly don't see this as bigotry, generally thinking it's perfectly fine if you can wave your bible around while foaming at the mouth. disgusting shit.
although admittedly it's kinda hilarious that this debate has kinda erupted over food that is legitimately inedible anyway. before i even had any idea the kind of sick shit behind chick-fil-a i found it difficult to even internally categorize their products as "food". and i'm not really one of those super-picky eaters or anything like that, i eat shit like burger king way too often. but i don't "get" chick-fil-a(or arbys for that matter).
if you REALLY REALLY REALLY need explosive diarrhea that badly, just go to popeyes or something.
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I'm seeing a lot of sweet potato fries at different places now, Carl's Jr (hardees), Burger King think. I have to say I'm ok with this. I like sweet potato fries.
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GOD FUCKING DAMN IT.
OK. I went to sleep for 3 hours after my last post. Took a nap. Felt shitty after this discussion, caught up and thought it over long enough to come to this conclusion:
I WAS being an idiot. Dada is right. Goldenratio is right. I'll give up the fucking chicken.
Your right. I should not spend money there. I barely do already. I worry that if some day comes though that I may forget, I may crave, I may cave and buy some anyway. But you are right its completely unethical.
I was being lazy about my sources. I posted shit quickly because I was impatient about getting a response (boy did I get one). I gave to much credit to my libertarian friend and what she said. I did a bit more research, and you are right. Not really good excuses but there you go.
If it helps my case anymore, I also was minorly sleep deprived. But I had this belief (that its not wrong to buy Chik-fil-a) for a while so I guess it really doesn't.
Why did this fucking 180 come to me AFTER I made a total ass of myself... I guess there no going back. I've officially become a moron on Salt. I'm the salt moron.
The only thing in Chik-Fil-A's side that I remain the same on is that guy that harassed that chik-fil-a employee was being a fucking asshole.
You know what I feel the most shitty about?
Being considered stupid. I never really thought I was being amoral until now. Now that I do I can't buy the chicken but you know what, I can give it up. As delicious as it is, I can give it up. and I will. UGH I'm depressed.
IDK if you guys basically disown me now or if you are feeling smug.
FUCK I JUST WANT TO FORGET THIS DISCUSSION EVER HAPPENED. and I want you to all forget to...
I suck at being wrong. I thought I was better than this. The bitterness of defeat is strong.
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Another reason I so ardently defended it is that it makes both my parents and my other libertarian friend to be totally unethical. And I have like a brain block keeping me from thinking less of them. (With exception of maybe my dad, I think less of him all the time)
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also: I'm still pirating stuff.
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Yo bein able to admit you were wrong is a huge deal and we're definitely happy to have a dude who can see somethin like that and change his mind around here. We're not gonna DISOWN YOU.
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well good. I guess I'm only speaking for myself but I don't think anyone can hold it against you esp. if you realize where you were wrong. and so what if you were being stupid everyone's pretty stupid sometimes
Another reason I so ardently defended it is that it makes both my parents and my other libertarian friend to be totally unethical. And I have like a brain block keeping me from thinking less of them. (With exception of maybe my dad, I think less of him all the time)
nah they're probably just ignorant
I'm seeing a lot of sweet potato fries at different places now, Carl's Jr (hardees), Burger King think. I have to say I'm ok with this. I like sweet potato fries.
they're really greasy at Burger King's
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lol some random dude just noticed my music interface and bigass headphones and he's like are you a musician I'm from Boston and want to check out some local bands you got a business card? I give him my web address instead and he leaves and this happens in the span of like 20 seconds
somebody not from the internet cares about my music
I dunno maybe he has a blogu or something. That ODD TIME SIGNATURE RADIO gig is going nowhere so far
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Yeah warped good on you for thinking about it and admitting you were wrong, it's not easy to do and you're better for it.
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The only thing in Chik-Fil-A's side that I remain the same on is that guy that harassed that chik-fil-a employee was being a fucking asshole.
I actually went and looked that up, and I forgot to mention it in my last post but yeah that was a filthy thing to do. Their employees are just bystanders trying to make a living, you can't take it out on them.
And yeah like Vellfire says, you need to swallow an incredible amount of pride in order to say "I was wrong", especially after putting yourself on the line like that, so I think it's great you've decided to review your stance on this. I'd figure just about 0.001% of the population has the capability to do that. So you can be proud of having done this.
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I dunno maybe he has a blogu or something. That ODD TIME SIGNATURE RADIO gig is going nowhere so far
I have to confess that I hadn't checked out your music before just now, but I went and listened to the two songs on your Bandcamp site and they rule.
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http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/rcl-pick-4
hi I know I post a lot of things but I think I really accomplished something with this
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eat chick-fil-a all you want. fuck liberal-identity-politics-as-consumer-choice, social change isn't a matter of consuming habits. You buy just about anything and you're putting money in the pockets of some scumbag doing bad shit somewhere.
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all of my money is tightly rolled up and pushed into my dick hole because i want to prevent it from going somewhere where someone is doing something i don't like
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eat chick-fil-a all you want. fuck liberal-identity-politics-as-consumer-choice, social change isn't a matter of consuming habits. You buy just about anything and you're putting money in the pockets of some scumbag doing bad shit somewhere.
Yeah but in most cases you have no choice. You literally can't buy a computer without oppressing some poor guy in a Nigerian mine and some Chinese guy putting it together, and probably a whole string of people in between. Same for cell phones and tons of other common items.
But in this case you actually do have a choice. Stop eating at Chick-fil-a, go to literally any of its competitors, and you'll stop funding the FRC. It's not difficult and you're hardly going out of your way to do it. Granted, you'll still be contributing to the practical torture of livestock and a ton of other things, but at least you'll have stopped funding those guys. It's not a matter of liberal identity politics or forcing social change, it's about not funding scumbags, which is very easy to do in this particular case.
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i never ate chick fil a before, are they just like a more sandwich-oriented KFC?
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it's a pretty moot point honestly, and really i don't dig the brow-beating moralism that surrounds this sorta shit. I generally don't eat fast food so i wasn't even really aware of this, but really I can't really bring myself to rag on someone over going through a drive-thru for some salty fried chicken just like i wouldnt get on someone's case over shopping at wal-mart or target.
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Yeah, I can get why you wouldn't like this, but I don't think the "if you're going to boycott something, you have to boycott everything" argument really applies in this case. If someone told me to boycott Apple because their factories employ virtual slaves to do the work, I'd say no. Same for a ton of other things. If you're going to start doing that it becomes extremely hard, probably impossible, not to be hypocritical because literally every other alternative is just as bad. But it's a lot easier in this particular case because the reason for the boycott is something that's unique. Nobody else does this. So I don't consider it hypocritical. But I can get why you'd have a hard time agreeing to this. I think the reason you mention is really the only legit reason for not going along with this.
And you don't have to rag on anyone about this. It's something you can personally decide to do. Those FRC guys are pretty insane, and I honestly couldn't personally justify having anything to do with these people. I wouldn't feel right about it.
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I don't think it's a legitimate reason, what he's saying is really vague. When you generalize it to well the whole world is upside down, why make a stink over this, then this paralysis arises because what are we supposed to do instead? What are these all-encompassing actions we could be taking to overthrow exploitation and oppression in all its forms at once? If there's a political action you can take simply by conscious inaction, then why not do it? It's friggin fried chicken! And besides that, not everyone is politically active and creating a climate of public opinion that is against these shitheads isn't a bad thing.
Making someone feel a little shitty over something like this - you pay for this product, then here is one very easily provable negative result of that - isn't really such a bad thing at all. Warped will remember this particular thing, and it's a good learning experience to be shown up like this every once in a while. Chiming in with the kind of comment you seem to be making just confuses the issue and doesn't really offer any alternative. He's clearly an impressionable guy at this point and might snap back to thinking 'see! i knew nothing mattered!'. Just because it isn't his fault he lives in a terrible world doesn't mean he shouldn't feel crappy about it. I mean he's taking it pretty seriously, apparently, that he is wrong and all that, but nobody is saying he's a stupid peon why don't you go stuff your fat face etc, people are laying it out for him and I think everyone is making sense.
I'm not saying that I am an ethical consumer or any such nonsense but I do make choices to avoid products based on ethical concerns sometimes, because it really is the least I can do, and there is a logical argument there for it. I'll take that over your attitude here because it is actually defined. Plus, I'll take any excuse to deny a fucker money.
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I don't think it's a legitimate reason, what he's saying is really vague. When you generalize it to well the whole world is upside down, why make a stink over this, then this paralysis arises because what are we supposed to do instead?
I agree with your post entirely, but I think it does become a legitimate reason when there are legitimate claims of hypocrisy as a result of a boycott. So when someone tells you to boycott Apple for basically running sweatshops, what will you do instead? You'd literally have to boycott everything for it to make sense, because everyone from Acer to Zenith does the same thing. So I don't think I could agree to such a boycott.
But I don't think that this argument works in this case because there are alternatives that you can turn to without violating the reason for the boycott. It's just one company that's funding homophobic efforts. You can go to McDonalds and get the same thing without literally contributing to someone's oppression (at least pertaining to this particular issue; McDonalds oppresses plenty of other people, but for other reasons).
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Warped I'm glad you aren't going to eat their chicken any more :)​.
Do not feel anyone will disown you - I still like you a lot!
I've mostly kept out of this debate on saltw as it's obviously something that is more than an academic exercise to me (I know it isn't to most other people here either, but to some people it is), and like when it comes to something that I feel directly affects me I tend to lose my mind and become RAGING FORUM HULK about shit like this.
That's why I've kept all my 'pinions about it on the CHIC-FILL-A FACEBOOK PAGE HOORAY lol, so as to not go RAARFUCKINCHICFILLAFASCISMRAAAFUCK and shit hahaha.
But it's been really good to see so many of my fellows here disagreeing with the company, and you realising that they're doing a pretty shitty thing (even if they do make nice chicken apparently lol) means a lot to me.
KEEP ON TRUCKING GUYS!
I'm not saying that I am an ethical consumer or any such nonsense but I do make choices to avoid products based on ethical concerns sometimes, because it really is the least I can do, and there is a logical argument there for it. I'll take that over your attitude here because it is actually defined. Plus, I'll take any excuse to deny a fucker money.
This is a very good attitude. Like I know ASDA (Walmart in the UK) is a pretty unethical company, but my partner is employed by them and we get a discount so as I'm poor at the moment (you won't believe how poor, I am like fucking one step away from asking dudes in the street for money) I'd find it impossible not to shop there.
However, if ASDA did suddenly start making huge donations to anti-gay organisations, or started helping to lobby the government to allow (or at the very least, not oppose), the Ugandan DEATH PENALTY FOR HOMOS bill, I'd obviously have to force myself from shopping there.
I mean, there are different levels of unethical. Fair, most companies are unethical to a degree, and many thrive on ripping workers off. There aren't that many who ACTIVELY HELP TO KILL GAY PEOPLE though, so I don't think it's too hard to think I WILL BOYCOTT DEMS.
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However, if ASDA did suddenly start making huge donations to anti-gay organisations, or started helping to lobby the government to allow (or at the very least, not oppose), the Ugandan DEATH PENALTY FOR HOMOS bill, I'd obviously have to force myself from shopping there.
It's actually worse than that, there were a bunch of fundamentalist US Christians who actually went over there to help lay the foundation for the law to be written. One of them pretended to be a psychologist even though he doesn't have any credentials (and was forced to admit that on live TV when Rachel Maddow [who ][/who] interviewed him). He published a book that was full of lies about how gay people are this many times more likely to "recruit" children, and all sorts of other things. You can read the transcript of an interview with him here (http://www.alternet.org/story/144475/rachel_maddow_demolishes_therapist_who_claims_he_can_make_her_straight). You might not be able to get through all of it, it's so incredibly rage-inducing. Halfway through the interview he claims that he was the victim of a "hate crime" by getting kicked out of the American Counseling Organization.
I honestly think these people deserve the guillotine for literally invoking hatred against gay people based on bare-faced lies. He's also a quack pretending to be a therapist and he contributed significantly to poisoning the climate for gay people in Uganda. I think the law was canceled or defeated at the final moment, but the most prominent gay activist was beaten to death. And his work probably contributed to that fact. I really think these people deserve nothing short of life in solitary or a public hanging.
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Wow, fuck, I didn't realise the extent of it there. That's fucking extreme.
I find it really hard to understand the lengths people will go to to oppress minorities. Like fair enough, if you believe the lies about gay people or whatever, but if you're the one MAKING THE LIES UP then surely YOU know they aren't true, so what's your excuse?
It's morally bankrupt.
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aren't they always self-hating gays
I pretty much assume that by now
I kinda assume self-hating gay people cause a lot of problems actually
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aren't they always self-hating gays
I pretty much assume that by now
This definitely happens but it's a really bad assumption to make. Some people are just hateful. People manage to be sexist without secretly being women.
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By making that assumption you're finding ways to feel sorry for oppressors when most of the time they're just hateful bigots undeserving of your misplaced sympathy.
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actually I'm not very sympathetic it just makes it more pathetic of them when I assume that
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Internalized homophobia is a huge issue man, I definitely feel bad to some degree to people who become hateful because they have so much internalized homophobia towards themselves. They're huge victims of our homophobic culture and their own oppression. Note that this does not excuse their hateful actions, it's just a shame that this even happens.
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And one of the major causes for internalized homophobia is parents (http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/102/4/815/). If you have parents who went to the Chick-fil-a day of support and force-fed you fried chicken while talking about how horrible those gays are, and you yourself are gay, there's a decent chance you're going to turn out completely intolerant of those who did have the freedom to be who they want to be (or later found the courage to do so).
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My mom suspects that my brother is gay. Based on, well, lots of evidence we'll just say.
She's annoyed mostly because it means she likely wont ever get grand kids from him though and she has various reasons for suspecting that the rest of us wont be either. Kind of depresses her.
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I'd say parents are the biggest factor when it comes to people who come out violently homophobic bit internalized homophobia can also be hugely influenced by the other people around you. My parents are absurdly supportive but I've still got a lot of internalized homophobia from the rest of my rural Kentucky environment.
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I kinda agree with dietcoke. the main problem was where warp was criticizing the boycotters/putting them in the same boat as the CONSUME IT crowd, which you can't do for reasons mentioned before. also, the reasons he provided for still buying greasechicken kind of begged a response. but besides that I agree with dietcoke, with the addition that knowing exactly how it's unethical does factor into "buying chick fila all you want"
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everybody should just stop caring about what everyone else thinks at all even if we risk all ending up as Chris-chans. Chris-chan the only true rebel
also somebody had TWO copies of Harvest Moon 64 at a tag sale wtf. But yeah I snagged those up
But yeah the only good thing Carlos Mencia ever said maybe (he probably stole it) was that bit about calling Mexicans beaners etc. etc. and he's like that doesn't mean anything that just makes us HUNGRY. Such and such visa vi you like this random piece of anatomy that just makes us horny like everyone else. Or you can substitute love for horniness but I'd rather use horniness for the metaphor because it's like admitting we all piss and shit etc. This is the stupidest post ever and I'm just rambling don't mind me. Point is there is no limit to how much I don't give a shit as long as you're not hurting/oppressing people. Also we can have religion but we should just be assigned a random thing for each individual to believe in at birth I believe in Quajifubu what do you believe in. But everybody has their own personal microreligion so nobody can gang up on anyone else. But really everybody should just watch/pay attention/make sure they really get the jokes on the Simpsons/have college courses about it and everybody who watches Family Guy should be shot and everything would be ok
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the problem becomes that complicity (not caring as long as you're not hurting anyone) is itself a political action. it's impossible to 'do nothing', and 'not hurt anyone' since taking no action in deference of the way things are is an action in itself, and allowing oppressors to continue to oppress is enabling their behavior
fortunately i don't think its possible to escape the opression inherent in western capitalism, even if you try to be a liberal activist and oppose it you still have to buy in to the system to a certain degree. the only escape from this is actual armed insurrection against western capital, which is stupid and useless. this is why being an amoral nihilist is the most appropriate solution to all problems, and allows me to live my life of comparative decadence on the back of a crumbling environment and slave labor.
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the problem becomes that complicity (not caring as long as you're not hurting anyone) is itself a political action. it's impossible to 'do nothing', and 'not hurt anyone' since taking no action in deference of the way things are is an action in itself, and allowing oppressors to continue to oppress is enabling their behavior
I just said as long as you're not hurting or oppressing anyone etc. but whatever. But yeah I wish things like this could actually be somehow arranged beforehand (like the Chick Fil A thing) to basically allow hateful people to destroy themselves I love chicken and hate nom nom nom. But yeah everyone's comfort zone should just be obliverated every once in a while like this
also where the fuck is Anonymous on this not that they necessarily should I just wonder how they'd rip into Chick Fil-A exactly or if it would just be something really dumb. I would hope for some incredible irony on behalf of them though
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Total agreement on the parents' vibe. Unfortunately there's no real way to guard individuals from this. Here in the UK we had a case a couple of years back of a Christian couple who were banned from foster caring as they refused to state that they'd stay neutral on the topic of homosexuality (as in they'd tell the foster child they received that being gay was sinful and wrong). Due to the fact that they could have theoretically received a homosexual youngster to foster, they were struck off the list. The right wing campaigned and complained about free speech being violated, and oppression from minorities etc, but that thankfully had a happy ending. However, in the case of people's natural-born children, you pretty much have the right to force your views on them until they leave home, by which point those views will be heavily ingrained.
I come from a background that is on the border zone between working-class and underclass. The people I was surrounded by growing up were pretty prejudiced, including my immediate family. Insults about racial minorities, non-Judaic/Catholic faiths, sexualities, and disabilities were fairly commonplace. It was pretty hard to "come out" in that environment. However, once I did, I learned some things about a few people, and it was like society was completely turned on its head. My mother will fight people now if she THINKS that they're not cool with me being gay, my father lectures co-workers on gay rights, my brothers have actually beaten a cousin up of mine who was insulting me in my absence about it. I attended a family party a few months ago with Paolo and the argument that happened was about the fact that he wanted to go early, rather than that we'd been clearly a couple all evening. Older dudes who I'll admit I'm scared of (pretty prejudicedly so, as I'm judging them before actively forming a relationship with them) who are "friends of the family" were laying into him for that reason, and telling him how you're meant to love your boyfriend and want to please them etc. Don't get me wrong, it was embarrassing a little for both of us, but the point I'm making is that once these people actively knew a gay person, they seemed to lose all their prejudiced beliefs (or, at least, decided to hide them extremely well).
It's changed a lot in the last ten years of course, but as more LGBTIQ people have made themselves known, the more people seem fine about it in the UK. Like it's almost a blasé thing to many now (at least, those who I've met anyway). Kids at school have actively asked me if I'm gay in an interested way (as in not LOL U R GAY SIR, but "Sir, you're gay right? It's ok to say, I don't care". I've never confirmed this as working at an all boys' school always makes me feel a little vulnerable in terms of accusations or whatever, plus it might be considered unprofessional to be discussing my personal relationships with students, but how much it's changed since I went to school is phenomenal to see.
Speaking of, I attended school under a piece of legislation called 'Section 28'. This prohibited the "promotion" of homosexuality, forcing public employees to either be neutral about homosexuality OR allowing them to be actively negative. That might not sound too bad to some - being neutral is great right? Unfortunately, much like the excellent analogies dada was coming out with earlier, it meant that teachers were actively prohibited in stopping homophobic bullying. I was outed in the sixth form by my boyfriend at the time, who was drunk and told people some stuff I won't go into. Suddenly, without my consent, everybody knew I was gay. Quite a few people were actively interested, asking questions etc - especially younger students. Some went out of their way to tell me it was cool. However, there were still a section of people who acted pretty disgustingly towards me because of it. I lost some friends I hung around with, and some tertiary friends I had decided they'd definitely be making comments about it to me in classes we attended together. I ended up not going to Computer Science much, for example, as a few individuals in that group took great joy in loudly discussing how disgusting gay people and homosexual acts were, pretty much every lesson I turned up to. What did the teachers do? Nothing - I couldn't understand this at the time at all. However, I learned not long afterwards that they were PROHIBITED from doing anything. They could have been disciplined or lost their jobs if seen to "promote homosexuality".
Exactly the same when the topic came up in Philosophy A-level. The majority of people in the group were very open-minded and friendly. However, one girl named Alex decided to challenge me about it, and really tried to upset me on many occasions. One example specifically that still makes me really upset when I think about it - when the whole lesson was focused on a discussion between the two of us, due to her distracting the ACTUAL focus of the lesson and refusing to be quiet, where we duelled theologically. As I was actively converting to Judaism at the time, and spent a GOOD chunk of my free time reading the Tanakh, New Testament, and tons of theological philosophers, I was "winning" (as childishly as that sounds) the debate. This was mostly due to her actual knowledge of the bible outside of shouting passages like Lev: 18:22 and 20:13. When I was clearly being seen to be being rational and backing myself up significantly, she stood up and screamed "Look, it's just fucking sick and twisted, and you're a fucking pervert" at me. Obviously the group was shocked - there was actually a feeling of joviality while the debate was going on, as I was able to defend myself well. Again, what did the teacher do at the abrupt end of the debate? Said that it's fine to agree to disagree and quickly (with a sense of panic in fact) started talking about the homework.
Man, sorry, it's like fucking SHARE CENTRAL over here, but the point I'm making is that to Alex/the class/etc it WAS just a debate. It was two people disagreeing about an ethical issue. To me though it was an individual specifically criticising who I am, saying pretty disgusting things about me, and then exploding at the end.
Vell hit the nail on the head before when she was speaking about men discussing/arguing with feminism and feminists. The idea is that to them it's JUST an academic exercise - it doesn't actively impact upon them, so they can afford to stay rational and calm, and shake hands and say "good debate" at the end regardless. For the minority who is being persecuted as part of the "debate" however, it can actually be a really scarring experience.
FUCK RAMBLE OVER sorry!
However, I also find the whole "Most gay haters are gay themselves" bag to be unfortunately a way of blaming gay people for their own oppression. Like I know it isn't intentional, and there HAVE been tons of homophobes who have ended up being clearly self-hating gay people, but I think it's fair to assume that the vast majority of homophobes are just bigots in actuality. However fulfilling it is to see an extremely right wing politician get caught with a rentboy, it doesn't take away from the fact that they've been trying to deny me rights.
Here in the UK, most people aren't really religious. No one goes to church too much except for a small minority. It isn't really a big part of the majority of people's lives here. However, a lot more people have been describing themselves as fiercely Christian and religious recently purely on the basis of disagreeing with the "homosexual lifestyle". These people have applied the label "Christian" to themselves as a sanctioned way of being shitty towards gay people. They don't follow the faith whatsoever in the majority of cases, but use it as a cover for their homophobia. As in G-d is against it, so it's cool for them to be too (even if they don't follow any of the other, more important rules).
I also know a lot of actual Christians who are actually pro-equality. I know tons of Jews who actively campaign for equal marriage. Fair, there are Christians who are against it also, but in the UK it's pretty clear that they don't make up the vast majority of anti-gay people there actually are. On a recent YouGov survey, it actually revealed that the majority of people who are actively religious in this country (as in ticked both boxes for BELIEF and ATTENDING REGULAR WORSHIP), are actually in FAVOUR of gay marriage (57%). One of the governors at the school I worked at until recently constantly invited me out to meals, gave positive feedback about me to the head, and was incredibly inclusive about Paolo in spite of being an extremely dedicated Christian. Fuck, Paolo's mother is one of the most Anglican people I've ever met.
Sorry, a little rambly, but the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't self-hating gay people who cause all the problems, nor is it specifically religious people. It's people who actively like to hate others, who believe that their feelings of prejudice are justified and that they should be free to express them/enforce them on others. They might be Christians, they might be secret-gay people, they might just be hateful people. What they have in common though is the potential to make gay, bi and transpeople's lives hell, purely because they don't like that particular minority group. That's the real issue.
Much like in recent arguments I've been observing, pro-gay people have criticised the Catholic church (for the whole molesting children bag). The counter has always been "Yes, Homosexual priests have done this", again finding another way to blame gay people for everything that ever goes wrong of a sexual nature.
So yeah, just saying "Well I don't like the moral preachiness so I'm going to eat chicken anyway" is an absolutely fine thing to do - we live in a democracy where we're all free to spend our money however we choose. But you can't expect all gay people to be totally fine with any individual who actively contributes to groups that persecute them for who they are.
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If anyone doesn't know, Chik-Fil-A is pronounced "chick fillet", and not "chick fill uh". Maybe I'm dumb but I thought it was pronounced that way for months because I never heard anyone sayit out loud and the name is beyond stupid anyway.
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the problem becomes that complicity (not caring as long as you're not hurting anyone) is itself a political action. it's impossible to 'do nothing', and 'not hurt anyone' since taking no action in deference of the way things are is an action in itself, and allowing oppressors to continue to oppress is enabling their behavior
This basically.
This is something I've only actually started actively trying to do at my ripe old age. I went through a stage of PERPETUAL FREEDOM FIGHTER until about 18, then thereafter I just started to think "Well my neutrality is fine, I just won't get involved" on many issues. For example: Palestine, abortion, transpeople rights, the Islamic community (and the campaigns against them). My current understanding now is that by doing nothing and maintaining my neutrality, I'm actually supporting the oppressors. This is something I can no longer tolerate in myself AND consider myself a decent person at the same time while doing so.
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again this is incredibly misanthropic of me but yeah like I'm kind of glad this happened because like a couple months ago there was some band or TV show that I and I think a couple other members were like 'if someone I know actually enjoyed this show I couldn't be friends with them anymore' and this might be the thing that makes 'friends' enemies or the straw the breaks the needle in the haystack or whatever. Also it's like being the ultimate sellout basically buying greasechicken to support hate, it's like too perfect. Sorry for kind of seeing TOTAL PERFECT IRONY in this whole situation. Or the thing that makes stupid hateful people completely and utterly stupid and hateful
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But yeah The Simpsons
'My God's the God of Compassion you moron! Well mine's the God of Mercy you jerk!'
- Simpsons episode 8x07 from the book of Homer
this whole situation even SOUNDS like an episode of Simpsons (except it'd be like Krusty Burger I guess)
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nevermind
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those were good points faust, and an especially readable post as always. tbh a lot of it seems to be the "not us" mentality. it's not fellow atheists that are doing reprehensible things, it's those stupid conservative religious people. it's not just catholics/fellow human beings that are molesting children it's the homosexuals. there's nothing wrong with misogyny in our society, it's the blacks and their gangster rappers.
not that this is anything new, iirc when the civil rights movement migrated up from the south they met pretty fierce opposition from northerners like "whoa whoa - those backward inbred southerners deserved what was coming to them, but there's nothing wrong with us! we treat the blacks just fine"
depersonalization
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Yeah I'd agree for sure. Like I actually encountered a lot of prejudice (as weird as it sounds) at a gay gamer forum due to being positive about aspects of religious faith. Like there were a couple of posters who made me think "Fuck this place", so I ended up leaving. Note: I wasn't defending intolerant beliefs, defending freedom of speech, or defending like anyone's right to be offensive. I was merely saying that there are certain religious faiths who aren't actively homophobic (for example, my rabbi is one of the major campaigners in this country for gay marriage, and like I'm reform Judaism [which ][/which], so you can imagine what the liberals and progressives think)!
Unfortunately, obviously due to their own dealings with certain religious people previously, that fell on deaf ears and it became a whole "are you with us or against us" vibe. I could understand it if I professed to being fiercely Catholic, or a hardcore Baptist like the Westboro peeps, but sadly I'm lumped in with those guys just because I (MAYBE ILLOGICALLY!?!) believe in G-d.
Gay people can be just as shitty and prejudiced, as can any individual from a group of other individuals. But at the end of the day, those people are individuals who believe hateful things. Not every Christian is a homophobe, not every homophobe is a Christian.
I mean your point about the civil rights movement makes a lot of sense too in the context of modern gay rights in the UK. Like in a lot of debates I have with Daily Mail forumgoers, the emphasis is placed on how bad Saudi Arabia/Iran are for killing gay people. Which is fair, and both DM right wingers and myself are in agreement on that. But when it comes to rights in the UK, the whole vibe is "WE DON'T ARREST YOU ANY MORE, STOP FUCKING MOANING ABOUT RIGHTS, YOU HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS YOU NEED BECAUSE WE GAVE THEM TO YOU" lol. In fact, someone just earlier posted pretty much exactly that in response to the idea that just because gay people are a "tiny" minority doesn't mean we deserve LESS rights because of it.
PS: I remember, in the GAYGAMER forum debacle, one of the mods weighing in to post "Well done everyone for keeping this so civil, let's make sure it continues to be as respectful as it has been, good job so far".
This was after I'd been called pathetic, ridiculous, ill-educated, and naive without actually insulting anyone lol. VERY CIVIL GUYS XD!!!
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Wow fuck, all my posts lately seem to be about how I'm HARD DONE TO!!!!
I'm actually in all fairness pretty lucky in that I receive minuscule amounts of prejudice in my life compared to like million of other people. I am overall a HAPPY GUY lol!
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My parents are absurdly supportive but I've still got a lot of internalized homophobia from the rest of my rural Kentucky environment.
By the way, I'd just like to say that I'm glad you decided to come out (to others: not that I knew) and I hope this is a load off your shoulders. I'm 100% supportive and I'm sure everybody else here is! Obviously this doesn't mean you're out irl but it's a major step, and I hope you feel better now that you've said it.
I'm pretty surprised nobody else mentioned anything, actually. Maybe they all think "she's obv already out and this isn't news otherwise she wouldn't have said it so casually"?
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ya hi i;m Too Bisexual To Live
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I guess everybody missed it because nobody here can actually read.
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I actually didn't pick up on the fact that this was the first time Vel has publicly stated it. It didn't register with me at all lol, because I assume if I know something then it isn't news lol.
But yeah, big kudos and shit. I don't want to make too big a deal of it as this'll turn into a 50 posts of embarrassing vellfire thread by constantly mentioning it over and over lol, but big, big kudos. It takes a lot of moxy to come out and shit. And yes, I know it isn't to like your offline community at large, but it certainly still is to a community of people that you know.
PS: dada they didn't mention it/post because, like me, it wasn't about them personally, thus they didn't retain it as information. It's the same reason as I stopped coming to these forums right around the time they made it really hard to search for "faust" and get all the posts.
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oh yeah I didn't even think about it/probably don't want it to be a big thing but congrats
Yeah I'd agree for sure. Like I actually encountered a lot of prejudice (as weird as it sounds) at a gay gamer forum due to being positive about aspects of religious faith. Like there were a couple of posters who made me think "Fuck this place", so I ended up leaving. Note: I wasn't defending intolerant beliefs, defending freedom of speech, or defending like anyone's right to be offensive. I was merely saying that there are certain religious faiths who aren't actively homophobic (for example, my rabbi is one of the major campaigners in this country for gay marriage, and like I'm reform Judaism [which is the equivalent of conservative judaism US], so you can imagine what the liberals and progressives think)!
Unfortunately, obviously due to their own dealings with certain religious people previously, that fell on deaf ears and it became a whole "are you with us or against us" vibe. I could understand it if I professed to being fiercely Catholic, or a hardcore Baptist like the Westboro peeps, but sadly I'm lumped in with those guys just because I (MAYBE ILLOGICALLY!?!) believe in G-d.
Gay people can be just as shitty and prejudiced, as can any individual from a group of other individuals. But at the end of the day, those people are individuals who believe hateful things. Not every Christian is a homophobe, not every homophobe is a Christian.
I mean your point about the civil rights movement makes a lot of sense too in the context of modern gay rights in the UK. Like in a lot of debates I have with Daily Mail forumgoers, the emphasis is placed on how bad Saudi Arabia/Iran are for killing gay people. Which is fair, and both DM right wingers and myself are in agreement on that. But when it comes to rights in the UK, the whole vibe is "WE DON'T ARREST YOU ANY MORE, STOP FUCKING MOANING ABOUT RIGHTS, YOU HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS YOU NEED BECAUSE WE GAVE THEM TO YOU" lol. In fact, someone just earlier posted pretty much exactly that in response to the idea that just because gay people are a "tiny" minority doesn't mean we deserve LESS rights because of it.
PS: I remember, in the GAYGAMER forum debacle, one of the mods weighing in to post "Well done everyone for keeping this so civil, let's make sure it continues to be as respectful as it has been, good job so far".
This was after I'd been called pathetic, ridiculous, ill-educated, and naive without actually insulting anyone lol. VERY CIVIL GUYS XD!!!
oh yeah, it's extremely rough when you're already part of a minority group, and then you're rejected even within that society. like even on the internet it's a really bad experience and esp since the internet seems to turn people into ruthless assholes
and yeah I see that stuff still goes on (re: it's them not us). uhhh we're the heros, don't say there's anything wrong with us
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p. much the only reason i was willing to even say it is because it's really really hard to talk about issues like this while pretending that they don't personally affect me and i;m tired as heck of skirting around it and i feel like i'm not gonna be able to keep it up irl much longer either;;;;;;;;;;;; hi welcome to my life
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it's extremely rough when you're already part of a minority group, and then you're rejected even within that society.
lol it's ridiculous some of the things gay and lesbian people say about bi people sometimes, feels like nobody on either side takes us seriously
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lol it's ridiculous some of the things gay and lesbian people say about bi people sometimes, feels like nobody on either side takes us seriously
I blame lady gaga
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Yeah you mentioned it casually enough in your post that I honestly thought such news was already out in the open. :P Either that or I thought it was possible that I as misreading your post. "Oh hey pretty sure she just said she's a lesbian or bi, huh"
But yeah. Yeah, I imagine it takes a lot to come out in any environment. So yeah good for you.
Also, if my brother is gay or bi he definitely has PLENTY of internalized homophobia. Though arguably not all that much because of my parents, but rather the area we live in is full of redneck/hick/hill-billy cliquely homophobic trash. (Southern Indiana, like 40 minutes from Florence, KY I think but I'm not good at navigating or knowing where the fuck I am)
He hangs out with this kid named Brad who openly says he doesn't like Obama because he's black and says nigger but defends his use of it as "oh white people can be niggers too! And I don't like them." Suffice to say he's not very smart but has an odd knack influencing my brother who usually ardently resists such manipulation. My brother basically just agrees with everything he says. My mom used the word "bromance" when brad was around and brad stopping coming over for like a week straight (he was basically at our house every day before that point) My mom thinks Brad might be gay too but I really doubt it.
Also my brother's got a pretty bad temper and throws crazy fits. Misplaced his smart phone (later found it in the grass where he works) and had a temper tantrum about it running around the house yelling and screaming about it. So IDK how he'd react if someone were to accidentally confirm that he was in fact gay or bi.
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lol it's ridiculous some of the things gay and lesbian people say about bi people sometimes, feels like nobody on either side takes us seriously
I've noticed this as well. In my city there's a bit of a vibrant gay community in a certain part of town(one that's almost fully gentrified now as it used to be somewhat of a trashy/sketchy place to live, but now has condos erecting at breakneck speed while the young/bohemian types that made it a desirable place are being priced out of neighborhood) and I hang with some LGBTQ ppl there sometimes getting some peeks at the dynamics of the 'gay-scene'. A few bisexual friends sorta express the same sentiment about not being taken seriously, men especially, in their relationships with ppl who swing one way or the other. The common perception of gay men is of these hypersexual beings and I've had buddies say how their straight partners see this as a sort of predisposition to cheating/infidelity while their gay partners feel like the relationship is some kind of 'experiment' or non-committal in some way. I think on both ends its kind of a general anxiety in all relationships, because none of us can fully climb into each others' minds, compounded with being with someone who's sexuality/gender preferences span a wider gradient than one's own.
I imagine it's probably similar with women/non-male-bodied ppl but being a str8-white-married-b0i i have a sorta awkwardness about prying into that with them that i don't have with my dudebros.
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anyone watch Antiques Roadshow right now they're running old episodes and telling if the item went up or down in value, and the sound effect for the value going down is like the most disappointing/upsetting sound I've ever heard
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FML my bro just got home and the oil lamp/Idiot light/oil pressure light (whatever you want to call it) came on it starts to rain I check the oil it's low in fact lower then I would like to see it. I had bit of 30-5w laying around so I was going to put some in and do something about it when I got to advanced auto's. But I was trying to open the cap and the whole fucking thing came off other then the gasket of the cap so now I need to wait till tomorrow to do it. when there is more light and obviously a cap and gasket to replace it.
Since I'm at it I might as well get that oil drain plug(it's leaking),filter (since i was neglecting to do it and will be down there anyways) and a water pump since I'm planing to do it this month (since it's weeping out my coolant and summer will end soon and water in the engine during winter will be like a death sentence) and hope nothing else is wrong with the oil or since (or anything that may make me lose more oil Since I don't know why it dropped so fast and can't imagine it was the plug since it's a slow leak ) that lamp came up hope there is no damage.
Also barely read this so good luck reading it since I think the sentence structure sucks at the moment since im pissed and made this fast.
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Curiosity is landing very shortly on Mars. If you are awake, may be worth watching the NASA live feed for. http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
It'll be happening in a less than 40 minutes. So, yeah, kind of short notice. Going post this on the IRC as well I guess.
Somewhat also interesting a Google+ hangout is apparently going on ATM precisely about this:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/c7c2fbd2gil25fjimln1jnr1134/110701307803962595019
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WOOT SUCCESSFUL LANDING
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YAY! *Pleased*
But what am I doing up this late? Trying to get the hang of Noscript.
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noscript gets easier when you build up a big enough whitelist
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so I just realized only recently that Lucas and Claus are anagrams for each other
I should've figured it was GENERIC NAME in some way like Ness/Ninten
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curiosity has just witnessed a martian tripod looming over head, rumours our that it's near their launch cannons, and soon war of the worlds will come true.
(a few years ago I started a comic, and this was the premise for the intro of it, i might start it again)
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noscript gets easier when you build up a big enough whitelist
lol thats what she said
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lol thats what she said
I love it when you talk firefox plugins to me
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"plugins"
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I'll plug you in, baby
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Ran across this:
http://mars-one.com/en/ (http://mars-one.com/en/)
EDIT:
Human settlement of Mars in 2023 Mars One will take humanity to Mars in 2023, to establish the foundation of a permanent settlement from which we will prosper, learn, and grow. Before the first crew lands, Mars One will have established a habitable, sustainable settlement designed to receive new astronauts every two years. To accomplish this, Mars One has developed a precise, realistic plan based entirely upon existing technologies. It is both economically and logistically feasible, in motion through the aggregation of existing suppliers and experts in space exploration.
We invite you to participate in this journey, by sharing our vision with your friends, by supporting our effort, and perhaps, by becoming the next Mars astronaut yourself.
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DO you think Noscript is worth the trouble?
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just going to put this right here
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels)
seriously going to cry if this doesn't get funded btw. not just like a single manly tear rolling down my cheek as i stand before some poignant background, i'm talking like the deep guttural, full body cry where i convulse uncontrollably, moaning at the top of my lungs, stopping only to profusely vomit all over my genitals, exposed through the hole i inadvertently tore in my pants while writhing violently on the floor in pure agony
I would, except that John K's Ren & Stimpy untempered by the tempestuous forge of Nickelodeon was a fucking atrocious abortion of animation, and so too will any independent short he creates, I fear.
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actually ren and stimpy was a fabulous animation
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Yeah man, how can you say Ren and Stimpy had bad animation? John K is pretty fantastic at mise-en-scene and his expressions are second to none. Not to mention those disgusting acrylic stills.
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Sorry, I suppose I wasn't clear.
Ren & Stimpy under the yoke of Nickelodeon was genius and one of my favorite shows.
Ren & Stimpy post-Nickelodeon, when John K basically had full control (thereafter called Ren & Stimpy "Adult Party Show") is juvenile garbage. I mean, just look at this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jQ3lRTtF2Q).
I swear it's like the censorship of the Nickelodeon years actually forced John K & co to actually be creative and devious, rather than relying on awful sex, feces, and fart jokes.
I don't exactly relish the thought of a 100% John K produced toon.
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:-) i liked it
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I was getting too frustrated with Noscript, so removed it, but installed Ghostery so I can see what's gong on. I may add it back in the future but I really found it very frustrating.
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Yeah, Noscript is useful but I generally only use it when I visit a site I don't know about.
I always have ABP running though.
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Yeah, Noscript is useful but I generally only use it when I visit a site I don't know about.
I always have ABP running though.
Which for me is quite often. However, I Have Mcafee Site Advisor installed, as well as antivirus, so it warns me about sites. Usually i avoid things it blocks but there are some exceptions such as Zophar's Domain and the like.
What's ABP again?
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Ad Block Plus. It serves an different purpose, but it does something similar enough to Noscript that I put it in the same category of software. It just blocks ads on websites, and it uses a blacklist that the authors update rather than a white list the end user updates.
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noscript is pretty handy IMO and i don't browse w/o it
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noscript is pretty handy IMO and i don't browse w/o it
No doubt one of the most secure ways to surf the internet. I just prefer to not have it on all the time.
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Noscript is great, but it interferes too much with my normal browsing. Also I use Chrome now because Chrome is awesome soooo
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i am looking for hosting servers. please let me know if any of you have any good "dos or donts" for picking hosting servers for a web site!! or can recommend cheap or free ones that i can upload game things to. please keep it simple for this e-gnoramous.
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i don't know what i'm doing
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:^_(
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i like dreamhost. relatively cheap, you can probably google up some sort of coupon code deal, and more or less reliable. decent control panel to handle mysql, domain names, etc. you can have it come pre-installed w/ wordpress if you want to blog.
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I love this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbpHJNa-6a8
I will learn it... someday... can't wait till I have enough chops to learn some Chopin. His stuff is really hard.
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Paolo can play some of Chopin's shit. It's pretty impressive.
Lol also: ETERNAL SONATA EXISTENTIAL RPG ABOUT CHOPIN WTF?! Really sad ending ;_;!
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Sorry, I suppose I wasn't clear.
Ren & Stimpy under the yoke of Nickelodeon was genius and one of my favorite shows.
Ren & Stimpy post-Nickelodeon, when John K basically had full control (thereafter called Ren & Stimpy "Adult Party Show") is juvenile garbage. I mean, just look at this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jQ3lRTtF2Q).
I swear it's like the censorship of the Nickelodeon years actually forced John K & co to actually be creative and devious, rather than relying on awful sex, feces, and fart jokes.
I don't exactly relish the thought of a 100% John K produced toon.
Yeah this is precisely what I had in mind when I posted about this earlier. The new cartoons he did were just really awful. The ANIMATION was still brilliant, but the ideas were stupid. It was great when he was pushing the limits of what's acceptable for a children's cartoon, but overt references to gay sex (they're gay, and that's funny, get it?) just don't work for me. So I'm skeptical too. Hopefully he'll have better ideas with this cartoon.
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Yeah, it almost seems like he became more restricted by trying to make his cartoon without restrictions, but I think is overtly crass use of that kind of stuff was more due to him not having another chance to make that particular cartoon with no holds barred.
It's not like they were even 100% prevalent in every single episode. The altruists episode is my favorite out of the bunch because it's almost entirely the kind of humor you would expect to see in the classic series. (Although I really hate that he never tried using that opportunity for re-making the "meaning of life" episode he intended for the original series, but got shot down by nick.)
The point being, unlike with ren&stimpy, this new cartoon is almost entirely from a clean slate. It's very unlikely he's just going to be crass for crassness sake, and the humor should only be uncensored enough to remain true to the ideas he had in deciding to make that cartoon in the first place. (now whether or not THOSE ideas are any good, time can only tell)
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and all i can do on piano is the rugrats theme :(
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i used to be able to do the start of interrupted by fireworks
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interrupted by fireworks
If you stop and think about how weird it is that myself and many others know exactly what you're talking about, it's kind of scary.
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it's not that weird, you could name a song with a distinctive name and people into that music would know what you're talking about
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I can do the "Wind Scene" song from Chrono Trigger, it's probably the only thing I can play properly with the piano
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but overt references to gay sex (they're gay, and that's funny, get it?) just don't work for me.
but it is funny though... a cat and chihuahua in a homosexual relationship is a funny dynamic, especially since the dominant one is essentially closeted. it's also the source of what's so endearing about the two's relationship. So of course they have gay sex, and it's funny because of the characters. Also buttfuckin' is funny idc i am happy to be considered juvenile in this regard.
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ha ha homosexuals
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ha ha homosexuals
yeah that's exactly what i'm saying.
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animals doing exaggerated people-things is funny. this has been the source of a lot of humor in cartoons for a very long time.
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Quick question. Is it homophobic to be disgusted by gay sex? I heard a comedian say "Just because I'm disgusted by the thought of my parents having sex doesn't mean I don't love them. "
Thought it was an interesting point. Disgusted is a pretty strong word though.
Just a question and not necessarily my opinion so don't jump on me in furious anger
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i thought about it a bit, and yes, it's definitely homophobic. especially if being told that it is homophobic makes you a little pissed off. the thing the comedian said is stupid and doesn't matter.
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Quick question. Is it homophobic to be disgusted by gay sex? I heard a comedian say "Just because I'm disgusted by the thought of my parents having sex doesn't mean I don't love them. "
Thought it was an interesting point. Disgusted is a pretty strong word though.
Just a question and not necessarily my opinion so don't jump on me in furious anger
if you just have a visceral reaction like "gross" then it's just not for you, which is perfectly fine. i don't think it makes you homophobic unless you go around telling gay people that you're disgusted at the thought of their intimacy.
so w/e, some people find some sexual acts gross, some other people find them appealing.
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but it is funny though... a cat and chihuahua in a homosexual relationship is a funny dynamic, especially since the dominant one is essentially closeted. it's also the source of what's so endearing about the two's relationship. So of course they have gay sex, and it's funny because of the characters.
I actually liked that there were deliberate connotations to the effect of their having a sexual/romantic relationship. there was a complex dynamic going on despite it being subtle. which is why I hated the overt gay sex scenes of the Adult Party cartoons, that almost seems like it was made for dudes who saw the original cartoon and thought "huh? they gay or somethin?" so that they now can go "LMAO YEA THEY TOTALLY GAY". so then it becomes funny for the same reason that the guy from Jackass drinking his own piss is funny. it turned something interesting into something cheap that utilizes people's latent homophobia.
I'm not saying that this is your train of thought, and don't let me stop you from thinking something is funny, but it's just that it seems like that's what those jokes were designed for, and that's probably why a lot of people laughed. (ha ha homosexuals)
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Quick question. Is it homophobic to be disgusted by gay sex?
As long as you're not really REPULSED by it beyond what's reasonable (you said "disgust is a strong word", so I guess you really mean something like "I definitely don't want to do that myself") then that's just sexual preference. But it sort of depends. Are you as disgusted by it as you would be if you saw e.g. bestiality, or scat? Because if that's the case then yeah that sounds like homophobia to me. And it's like Diet said, if you are disgusted by it then keep it to yourself, live and let live. That's good enough.
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Hey, be as disgusted as you like, just don't try to deny me civil rights - directly or indirectly.
I'm way more offended by outright mockery or advocating inequality than I am by you thinking "gross, bumsex" or whatever. However I do not speak for ALL THEM GAYS lol, so probably best not to publicly proclaim disgust to all and sundry.
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hey chick fil a chicken is good? lol
Chicken (100% natural whole breast filet, seasoning [salt, ][/salt,], seasoned coater [enriched ][/enriched], milk wash [water, ][/water,], peanut oil [fully ][/fully]), bun (enriched flour [wheat ][/wheat], water, high fructose corn syrup, yeast, contains 2% or less of each of the following: liquid yeast, soybean oil, nonfat milk, salt, wheat gluten, soy flour, dough conditioners [may ][/may], soy flour, amylase, yeast nutrients [monocalcium ][/monocalcium], calcium propionate added to retard spoilage, soy lecithin, cornstarch, butter oil [soybean ][/soybean]), pickle (cucumbers, water, vinegar, salt, lactic acid, calcium chloride, alum, sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate [preservatives], natural flavors, polysorbate 80, yellow 5, blue 1).
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it's almost like fast food is garbage ! ! !
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idk I rather like anti-foaming agent.
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Good tasting, not healthy. This was established doc.
Its fast food. So yeah of course its unhealthy.
I still liked the way it tasted. :( But then maybe at least I can stomach giving it up a little easier taking into account I'm supposed to be watching my caloric intake anyway. (EDIT: and I generally do try and avoid stuff with such massive quantities of additives and such, at least in a casual manner)
As for the discussion of John K's work, I haven't seen his new stuff and have lots of vague memories of the original Ren and Stimpy but I do remember really enjoying it. But then again I also watch a lots of cartoons with similar "Lets see how far we can go" mentalities and mostly enjoyed them the most.
I'd say though my favorite kids aimed cartoon though is Ed, Edd, and Eddy which was relatively tame in comparison. I can actually watch it today and find it pretty funny.
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chik filia does have a healthy branding somehow
is it still ok to go to maoz, moes, and chipotle? that's a trick question, I'm going no matter what. you all can go to hell. check this out non-northeast us ppl http://www.maozusa.com/
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I don't really like Chipotle's food, but I read somewhere that they rank pretty high on the ethics scale, so your safe in that respect Earlchip.
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it turned something interesting into something cheap that utilizes people's latent homophobia.
I'm not saying that this is your train of thought, and don't let me stop you from thinking something is funny, but it's just that it seems like that's what those jokes were designed for, and that's probably why a lot of people laughed. (ha ha homosexuals)
i dont think that's the intention though(far from it actually) and you seem to be grasping at something to be outraged about rather than taking it at face value and laughing at it for what it is... I mean the whole show was basically anything but subtle so idk why in-ur-face booger/fart/pee/poop jokes are OK but it can't be visually expressive about SEX lest the show become juvenile in some deviant effort to garner cheap laughs from homophobes who think "queers is funny".
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idk if that's the intention though and you seem to be grasping at something to be outraged about rather than taking it at face value and laugh at it for what it is...
ugh it's really really disgusting to tell someone who's offended they're just grasping at a straw, just trying to actively find something to be outraged about rather than just shutting up and enjoying it like a good white male cis heterosexual.
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no it's not disgusting because it's not offensive. you are actually being obtuse and have no point at all other than "these animals are gay and having sex, there must be some foul play here because these hypothetical people in my mind may or may not be laughing at it for the wrong reasons"
w/e i don't really wanna talk about it if you're gonna get all cultural-studies student at me, be offended all you like. :)
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The difference is farters, booger-havers and peeing/pooping people are not oppressed groups, so the treatment of those groups in media is not really an issue. LGBT people on the other hand don't have that luxury. It's a really sensitive issue and it's really important to look at it closely, because if the jokes boil down to "lol the punchline is they're gay and that's funny" that's a dangerous attitude. Just because that's not what you are doing doesn't mean that's not what others were doing while watching it and I don't see why you think dada is grasping at straws for being concerned about what messages media are giving out about groups that are already in a bad spot.
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WHOA check your fart privilege
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The difference is farters, booger-havers and peeing/pooping people are not oppressed groups, so the treatment of those groups in media is not really an issue. LGBT people on the other hand don't have that luxury. It's a really sensitive issue and it's really important to look at it closely, because if the jokes boil down to "lol the punchline is they're gay and that's funny" that's a dangerous attitude. Just because that's not what you are doing doesn't mean that's not what others were doing while watching it and I don't see why you think dada is grasping at straws for being concerned about what messages media are giving out about groups that are already in a bad spot.
yeah except that's not what the jokes boil down to, if you'd like i can deconstruct things in such a way that reveals a very normalizing pro-gay perspective but then i'd hate myself for giving any credence to the bullshit you guys are spewing that essentially boils down to "I CARE, I CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THESE THINGS I LEARNED ABOUT, THE OBJECT OF DISCUSSION IS NOT THE POINT, ITS THESE DANGEROUS ATTITUDES THAT EXIST!!"
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srry forgot to put ~*TRIGGER WARNING*~ at the top of that post
(i will out-privlege/identity/college politics any of u, get some)
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yeah homophobia is just an abstract exercise to us, and not something we have to deal with as *gasp* real life
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no it's not disgusting because it's not offensive.
not up to you to decide.
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ps I sort of thought you were mature and were able to have discussions like this with a minimum of respect and without shitting all over people's feelings. why is it that you're dismissing everybody here for just doing this for the abstract college politics exercise? is that because believing everybody's feelings are faked makes it easier to reject them and not have to do any of that annoying empathy stuff?
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"I'm a white married cis male heterosexual and according to my analysis, this cartoon's jokes about gay sex actually aren't offensive to you at all."
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[15:10] <Vellfire> jesus these posts http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83147.msg1630340;boardseen#new
[15:10] <Vellfire> yes homophobia is just college politics to me
[15:10] <Vellfire> just an abstract exercise
[15:11] <Vellfire> i don't really care about it
[15:11] <Vellfire> i don't think i can post anymore in this discussion i'll make myself sick
but I bet vellfire is just grasping at straws to construct a faux outrage about things she doesn't really care about right
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ah, another one of these, eh?
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it's a forum!
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let's all stop talking about things it gives me too many issues i can't handle it let's just sit quietly please
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i'd like to go just one day where there wasn't a lingering internet debate in my life
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oh boy, one of these!
You know, I actually went and watched all of the episodes of what we're talking about here over the last couple days, and i don't really think you or velfarre really have any reason to be upset. But I'm willing to be wrong! Lay it out to me using concrete examples of where this stuff is actually gay-bashing or in some way minimizing or hostile towards homosexuality without pulling this silencing identity-politics bullshit with me. The entirety of your point so far is that "there could be someone out there laughing at the thing for the wrong reasons" which is completely meaningless and applied to anything. I mean, if you were to just leave it at "it's not my bag", that'd be fine but you take it a step forward suggesting that the intended humor is actually malicious in playing on people's latent homophobia. I think that's a stretch and you are making a pretty wild assumption there.
wrt Velfarre getting all cross about it in chatlogs: I think it's fairly obvious that she hasn't even seen them given that she gave the impression that she's taking your word on the fact that "...if all the jokes boil down to...", so why would I give a fuck what she has to chime in with? "oh wonderful, I'd love to get an earful about how I'm not concerned enough". Fuck it, I'm not going to catch this kind of shit, especially considering what I've spent a lot of my spare time doing(out in *gasp* real life) for several years. Yeah, minority and oppressed populations don't often get portrayed in the media in a positive light and it ought to be criticized, thanks for that insight!
yeah homophobia is just an abstract exercise to us, and not something we have to deal with as *gasp* real life
I never said it was an abstract exercise or suggested that people didn't deal with it in their lives. I'm saying that, to once again move away from spouting platitudes and reel back to the actual object of discussion here, what is being called out as homophobic is not homophobic. That's not the same thing as saying homophobia does not exist or matter.
"I'm a white married cis male heterosexual and according to my analysis, this cartoon's jokes about gay sex actually aren't offensive to you at all."
Dada, drop this shit.
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actually nvm
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i like this article's perspective on liking something like GURM's fantasy rape dragon epics and still reconciling that with thinking that gay people are worthy of human dignity:
http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2011/09/how-to-be-a-fan-of-problematic-things/ (http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2011/09/how-to-be-a-fan-of-problematic-things/)
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i'm not "getting all cross" i'm trying not to have Emotional Issues over dumb internet things like i do half the time because the internet makes me goddamn miserable about myself
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delete the internet i want to get off
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to suggest vellfire is deliberately "getting cross" about it and making herself miserable is just fuck you
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to suggest vellfire is deliberately "getting cross" about it and making herself miserable is just fuck you
I think you have reading comprehension problems. I did not say that she was deliberately getting mad and making herself miserable.
The tone of the chatlog dada pasted seemed like she was upset, cross is a synonym for upset/annoyed. I made an observation and it seems like it was correct.
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you seem to be grasping at something to be outraged about
verbatim
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if you just have a visceral reaction like "gross" then it's just not for you, which is perfectly fine. i don't think it makes you homophobic unless you go around telling gay people that you're disgusted at the thought of their intimacy.
so w/e, some people find some sexual acts gross, some other people find them appealing.
Definitely a good way to put it, thanks. Just like how Faust probably isn't too interested in hetrosexual intercourse.
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verbatim
again, i think you have reading comprehension problems. that was directed at dada earlier in the conversation.
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i'm not "getting all cross" i'm trying not to have Emotional Issues over dumb internet things like i do half the time because the internet makes me goddamn miserable about myself
well i'm sorry to hear that. i don't want you to feel bad about yourself.
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i have to give up at this point before i shake myself to pieces so i'm just gonna invite you to read this post back through and try to comprehend the fact that you have said all this unironically
oh boy, one of these!
You know, I actually went and watched all of the episodes of what we're talking about here over the last couple days, and i don't really think you or velfarre really have any reason to be upset. But I'm willing to be wrong! Lay it out to me using concrete examples of where this stuff is actually gay-bashing or in some way minimizing or hostile towards homosexuality without pulling this silencing identity-politics bullshit with me. The entirety of your point so far is that "there could be someone out there laughing at the thing for the wrong reasons" which is completely meaningless and applied to anything. I mean, if you were to just leave it at "it's not my bag", that'd be fine but you take it a step forward suggesting that the intended humor is actually malicious in playing on people's latent homophobia. I think that's a stretch and you are making a pretty wild assumption there.
wrt Velfarre getting all cross about it in chatlogs: I think it's fairly obvious that she hasn't even seen them given that she gave the impression that she's taking your word on the fact that "...if all the jokes boil down to...", so why would I give a fuck what she has to chime in with? "oh wonderful, I'd love to get an earful about how I'm not concerned enough". Fuck it, I'm not going to catch this kind of shit, especially considering what I've spent a lot of my spare time doing(out in *gasp* real life) for several years. Yeah, minority and oppressed populations don't often get portrayed in the media in a positive light and it ought to be criticized, thanks for that insight!
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You know, I actually went and watched all of the episodes of what we're talking about here over the last couple days, and i don't really think you or velfarre really have any reason to be upset. But I'm willing to be wrong!
I'm willing to be wrong too. and actually I don't even care that much about the episodes themselves. I'm sure John K is a nice guy, and I actually loved the way he handled R&S's relationship in the earlier cartoons. and my point actually wasn't "someone could be laughing at this for the wrong reasons", but "it was probably designed to get people to laugh for the wrong reasons". but I could be right or wrong, I haven't watched those episodes lately and when I did I wasn't watching them very critically.
what I care about is the way you're going about this which is just completely wrong. like from the very start you've had this totally condescending attitude saying we're just COLLEGE POLITICIANS who don't actually care or have any stake in the issue which is completely hypocritical given who you are. vellfire even just came out as a bisexual a few posts ago, she's not exactly an armchair LGBT ally. you don't assume by default that people are just uptight leftist faux academics who do all this stuff as a thought exercise, that's gross.
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ps I sort of thought you were mature and were able to have discussions like this with a minimum of respect and without shitting all over people's feelings. why is it that you're dismissing everybody here for just doing this for the abstract college politics exercise? is that because believing everybody's feelings are faked makes it easier to reject them and not have to do any of that annoying empathy stuff?
I'm willing to be wrong too. and actually I don't even care that much about the episodes themselves. I'm sure John K is a nice guy, and I actually loved the way he handled R&S's relationship in the earlier cartoons. and my point actually wasn't "someone could be laughing at this for the wrong reasons", but "it was probably designed to get people to laugh for the wrong reasons". but I could be right or wrong, I haven't watched those episodes lately and when I did I wasn't watching them very critically.
what I care about is the way you're going about this which is just completely wrong. like from the very start you've had this totally condescending attitude saying we're just COLLEGE POLITICIANS who don't actually care or have any stake in the issue which is completely hypocritical given who you are. vellfire even just came out as a bisexual a few posts ago, she's not exactly an armchair LGBT ally. you don't assume by default that people are just uptight leftist faux academics who do all this stuff as a thought exercise, that's gross.
Yeah sometimes(often) I'm flippant in dismissing people on the internet, especially when it's tangential to the actual object of discussion. It's not out of personal spite or malice, it's in not wanting to be the subject of some moralistic browbeat-down with idiots like Geodude chomping at the bit to 'call me out' on ridiculous bullshit I never said. I've seen this go down with dudes like Farren and I'm not taking the bait dude, lets actually have a focused discussion.
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i have to give up at this point before i shake myself to pieces so i'm just gonna invite you to read this post back through and try to comprehend the fact that you have said all this unironically
Yeah, so make a point! So far you've been pretty incoherent and your entire contribution to this discussion has been fucking awful(I mean, explain those last two posts you've made)
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tell me again how you're not doing any of this out of spite or malice:
"I CARE, I CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THESE THINGS I LEARNED ABOUT, THE OBJECT OF DISCUSSION IS NOT THE POINT, ITS THESE DANGEROUS ATTITUDES THAT EXIST!!"
srry forgot to put ~*TRIGGER WARNING*~ at the top of that post
(i will out-privlege/identity/college politics any of u, get some)
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vellfire is an Actual LGBT Person and yet "THESE THINGS I LEARNED ABOUT"
what the fuck is wrong with you?
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you seem to have an extreme cynicism about any discussion of LGBT issues where if anyone complains it's "identity politics" and a "moralistic brow-beating" by faux lgbt allies who are grasping at straws to be offended and that's really the reason why we're Doing This Thing right now. has nothing to do with Ren and Stimpy or what John K intended.
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tell me again how you're not doing any of this out of spite or malice:
again, that's me being flippant and dismissive because(as mentioned in a following post) she did not have anything to say about the actual content of the discussion. but instead seized on an opportunity to harp on some tangential subject as if i was some culturally insensitive moron who thinks all the oppressed populations should just "lighten up" in the face of actual offensive shit in the media. That's not what I was saying and I'm not that guy. So yeah, I snapped back a bit because if I'm not gonna be given the benefit of the doubt, I won't give it back! It wasn't out of wanting her to feel like shit or anything.
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you seem to have an extreme cynicism about any discussion of LGBT issues where if anyone complains it's "identity politics" and a "moralistic brow-beating" by faux lgbt allies who are grasping at straws to be offended and that's really the reason why we're Doing This Thing right now. has nothing to do with Ren and Stimpy or what John K intended.
No actually, I don't have an extreme cynicism. I take the issues very seriously and care deeply about people in my life who these issues effect, so much so that I've placed myself in very uncomfortable and dangerous situations over it.
I just won't get ganged up on over having an opinion about whether or not a cartoon is homophobic. Let's actually talk about what's offensive here! All I did was question your assessment about the characters and their relationship, nothing beyond that.
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but instead seized on an opportunity to harp on some tangential subject as if i was some culturally insensitive moron who thinks all the oppressed populations should just "lighten up" in the face of actual offensive shit in the media.
here's the thing: you can't objectively decide for other people what's offensive ("actual" offensive shit). and that's what you were doing. I'm sure you have a good analysis for why John K's intentions were pure, but you don't jump to the conclusion that because you don't find it offensive, other people must be going out of their way to complain, and that makes it a fake outrage. just don't do that because yes that is very insensitive and presumptuous of you.
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No actually, I don't have an extreme cynicism. I take the issues very seriously and care deeply about people in my life who these issues effect, so much so that I've placed myself in very uncomfortable and dangerous situations over it.
but that doesn't mean you can't slip up! like I've seen a lot of self-proclaimed feminist allies say the same thing. whether you care about LGBT issues or not is beside the discussion. I mean just look at those quotes I posted just now. that's not how you do things. even if you were saying it to someone who's 100% straight. you don't dismiss people by presuming they're not serious about it anyway, and then proclaim your innocence by saying that you are serious.
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for what it's worth I absolutely believe you when you say you care deeply about serious LGBT issues, and I don't think you're a bad guy at all (on the contrary) but you really shouldn't believe that having done activism or w/e gives you some sort of "cares far more than everybody else; thus right" pass.
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here's the thing: you can't objectively decide for other people what's offensive ("actual" offensive shit). and that's what you were doing. I'm sure you have a good analysis for why John K's intentions were pure, but you don't jump to the conclusion that because you don't find it offensive, other people must be going out of their way to complain, and that makes it a fake outrage. just don't do that because yes that is very insensitive and presumptuous of you.
not "other people", YOU. It wasn't even a matter of intentions for me really, I was actually more interested in getting at why you and Belross thought the latter show had become "juvenile" because of its more explicit/adult content which was largely just an extension of what was already a pretty juvenile. You made a passing comment suggesting that the actual humor in the characters' gay relationship sex jokes was in its incitement of latent homophobia in the audience. As if the joke was "LOL look at those gays!" I thought you were reaching with this point and was willing to deconstruct things with you(because I'm a big dork and have loved R&S and John K's work since I was young), but instead got jumped on as if I was saying that everyone who finds anything offensive in the media is just people looking to get mad about nothing.
Now, the conversation lost its focus and moved from something I was interested in discussing to me being put on the defensive about something I don't even agree with. I'd be more than willing to have that discussion in any other context, but do you understand why I'd be a little annoyed and uninterested in following through with that?
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As if the joke was "LOL look at those gays!" I thought you were reaching with this point and was willing to deconstruct things with you
I still don't think you really get what I'm saying. if this is the case then why didn't you just say "I think you're wrong and John K's intentions are much better than you think they are" instead of trying to shut me up by accusing me of "going out of my way to complain"? that implies I'm just some shitty college politician (which you later EXPLICITLY said) rather than wrong about the specific details of a ren and stimpy cartoon. you could have very easily told me that my outrage WOULD have been valid had I actually been right about it, but I'm not, followed maybe by an explanation of why I'm not. you didn't. you immediately started insulting me and accusing me of being disingenuous and of not caring. then you did the same thing to vellfire who actually is an LGBT and lives in Kentucky and has to deal with this irl, and then you post those things to her that I quoted earlier, and you're surprised that people got mad at you?
to reiterate what I said before, that way of going about it is completely wrong and you should acknowledge that.
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I still don't think you really get what I'm saying. if this is the case then why didn't you just say "I think you're wrong and John K's intentions are much better than you think they are" instead of trying to shut me up by accusing me of "going out of my way to complain"? that implies I'm just some shitty college politician (which you later EXPLICITLY said) rather than wrong about the specific details of a ren and stimpy cartoon. you could have very easily told me that my outrage WOULD have been valid had I actually been right about it, but I'm not, followed maybe by an explanation of why I'm not. you didn't. you immediately started insulting me and accusing me of being disingenuous and of not caring. then you did the same thing to vellfire who actually is an LGBT and lives in Kentucky and has to deal with this irl, and then you post those things to her that I quoted earlier, and you're surprised that people got mad at you?
to reiterate what I said before, that way of going about it is completely wrong and you should acknowledge that.
the college-politics remarks were more of a response to your "I'm a straight white male" bullshit because that's a very very very common silencing tactic that appears most in the bowels of cultural studies departments and insular campus activism. I've heard it before and I find it annoying and extremely toxic for discussions.
What I was getting at in saying you were 'looking for things to be outraged about' was that you were reaching, or your point was a huge stretch, you were looking beyond what was actually there... In other words, I disagree. Yeah, maybe that wasn't the best way to put it and is essentially at the root of the last few pages of misunderstanding each other.
As for Vellfare: I am sorry. I did not mean to offend you or minimize anything about you or your experiences in life. Yes I was dismissive and got carried away with making a caricature of what you guys were saying, I did so without taking *you* personally into consideration and it was not my intention to make you feel miserable or bad about yourself. If anything, we're most likely on the same page about shit and I think you're swell.
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To get back to the original discussion...
I have not actually watched enough of the Adult Party Cartoons to have a good grasp of how it depicts homosexuality. But in any context, using homosexuality itself as the butt of a joke, with no other gag, is fairly offensive. It is deliberately stereotyping a marginalized group of people for laughs.
From the perspective of someone unaffected by anti-LGBT prejudice, it's too easy to dismiss it as "it's just a joke and all in good fun" or "they're joking about it just like they joke about anything else - LGBT shouldn't get special treatment in this respect." If you're not offended, why should anyone else, right?
But from the perspective of someone who undergoes actual, life-effecting prejudice and discrimination, it's not "all in good fun." Even the most "harmless" of stereotyping juvenile humor simply adds to an overwhelming tide of similar comments, jokes, and actions that some people have to deal with every day. Prejudice is like the proverbial death of a thousand cuts - sure each comment on its own can seem minor, but when you add them all together you have a major, pervasive problem.
So no, it's not "grasping at straws" to find any kind of stereotyping humor about LGBT people offensive, when the line between playing homosexuality for laughs and serious discrimination is so thin. The kind of joke someone might make who is "okay with gays" and someone who is a seriously hateful person are pretty much identical. Just because the intention of the person making the joke is different doesn't mean it has any less sting, no matter who it's coming from.
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Take for example jamie's Duck Movie. If that was a movie about a woman finding out her partner was secretly bisexual or gay and enjoyed crossdressing in secret, and tried to play it for laughs, it'd be pretty fucking offensive. But as a movie about a secret duck, it's fine, because people who dress up as ducks aren't a systematically oppressed and discriminated-against group who deal with similar shit every day, while LGBT people are. In fact thinking about it now I'm pretty sure that's the point of the movie.
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how do you like my new avy
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I LOVE IT MAN
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kame.......HAME..............HAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!!!~!~!~!~!
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little bit Binbougami ga can go long way.
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there was a homeless gentleman walking around naked in the subway bathroom and it was fine but I had to warn a dad with a kid before they went in.
police oversight thing ended today, it was great but I don't think I want a permanent job doing that stuff
I don't know what this argument is about but I agree with vellfire about deleting the internet
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hahaha AAAACK!!! *clap clap clap!! aaaa, did you notice- cos bonzis am orangutan his legs are like another pair of hands -> his legs are clapping!!!!!* OOOOCK!!!
also u du realize dday that all shounen manga follows the rule: there's an awkward boy... who at some point finds AMAAAAZING power inside him...the cute dream girl is astonished of his inner strenght, also at some point a harem might form... his strongest point is "earnest, hard work" and endurance, making him do cool kamehame blasts in the end... he is strongest guy in the end... also horrible horrible categorizing/sexual role/chauvinism in every fucking manga/anime save the godblessed jojo's bizarre- my lord!!! lord JoJo!!! *bonzi falls dramatically on his knees over an iconograph of beautiful, handsome hunks in ultra fashion, lurches over and kisses iconograph*
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there was a homeless gentleman walking around naked in the subway bathroom and it was fine but I had to warn a dad with a kid before they went in.
police oversight thing ended today, it was great but I don't think I want a permanent job doing that stuff
I don't know what this argument is about but I agree with vellfire about deleting the internet
Delete Velfire if you think the internet is your friend.
Don't make me end this as the topic began. I have the power to do it.
hahaha AAAACK!!! *clap clap clap!! aaaa, did you notice- cos bonzis am orangutan his legs are like another pair of hands -> his legs are clapping!!!!!* OOOOCK!!!
also u du realize dday that all shounen manga follows the rule: there's an awkward boy... who at some point finds AMAAAAZING power inside him...the cute dream girl is astonished of his inner strenght, also at some point a harem might form... his strongest point is "earnest, hard work" and endurance, making him do cool kamehame blasts in the end... he is strongest guy in the end... also horrible horrible categorizing/sexual role/chauvinism in every fucking manga/anime save the godblessed jojo's bizarre- my lord!!! lord JoJo!!! *bonzi falls dramatically on his knees over an iconograph of beautiful, handsome hunks in ultra fashion, lurches over and kisses iconograph*
What are you talking about. Do I need a rape whistles
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LARGE RESPONSE INITIATING... TARGETS: DADA, BELROSS, DDAY
here's the thing: you can't objectively decide for other people what's offensive ("actual" offensive shit). and that's what you were doing. I'm sure you have a good analysis for why John K's intentions were pure, but you don't jump to the conclusion that because you don't find it offensive, other people must be going out of their way to complain, and that makes it a fake outrage. just don't do that because yes that is very insensitive and presumptuous of you.
Yeah, its subjective. Which actually in my opinion makes it hard to justify a complaint in either direction. If you say "This is offensive" or "I find this offensive" most people will perceive this to mean (even though technically this isn't the case in the latter) that they think this is objectively bad and people who enjoy it should feel bad or they are bad people who should be shunned.
Or in the direction you are pushing it, "This isn't offensive" or "I don't find this offensive" the same problem arises in peoples minds that they are saying they think something is objectively NOT offensive.
Anything can be deemed by anyone as offensive or not offensive. To me, that muddles up any argument up FAR to much. I don't like subjectivity very much when it some to any important topics. Its makes it almost... unfixable. Like there isn't a correct way of doing things. ugh.
for what it's worth I absolutely believe you when you say you care deeply about serious LGBT issues, and I don't think you're a bad guy at all (on the contrary) but you really shouldn't believe that having done activism or w/e gives you some sort of "cares far more than everybody else; thus right" pass.
Actually this is a common phenomenon. When someone has done something they believe to be extremely good they 'take it easy' in other categories of ethics. I'm not saying DC is the type to do so though. Just saying its very common. Its why the stereotype that people who drive hybrids are kind of jerks came about.
I have not actually watched enough of the Adult Party Cartoons to have a good grasp of how it depicts homosexuality. But in any context, using homosexuality itself as the butt of a joke, with no other gag, is fairly offensive. It is deliberately stereotyping a marginalized group of people for laughs.
Its sort of a cyclical thing isn't it, LBGT jokes are so common, so everyone has them on their mind, so when people make a joke there is a decent chance they will make another LGBT joke, which others will hear, and further reinforcing it. Problem is that telling someone they shouldn't or can't make such jokes is really jarring (Not saying because of experience) and I imagine spurs a 'rebellious' 'fuck you' attitude because they think you are calling them out on their THOUGHTS (thus the "thought police" trope) when really you are pointing out something that they just happen to share with most people (like people/society are some sort of hive mind) most people take call outs to be personal. And now that I think about it, telling them its not directed at them on the fact that THEY say it because so many people already do and its exhausting doesn't help either because THEN you are saying "Heh, you are unoriginal and go with the herd, you are a dull person."
I also think the OFFENSIVENESS can sometimes be kind of crucial to certain elements of humor in general. The whole schaden freud thing. But then, its common for most people to mock INDIVIDUALS and its generally not considered ethically or morally wrong (though perhaps rude and mean spirited). Like "haha Jake tripped over a traffic cone." *group chuckles* Jake response could either be public shame or laughing right with them.
From the perspective of someone unaffected by anti-LGBT prejudice, it's too easy to dismiss it as "it's just a joke and all in good fun" or "they're joking about it just like they joke about anything else - LGBT shouldn't get special treatment in this respect." If you're not offended, why should anyone else, right?
Well, even though this is like living in a social vacuum, If you spend your entire life making jokes at a entire groups expense and never encounter a single person who gets offended for many many years and suddenly you are introduced to someone of that group and they get offended like, do you not think it unreasonable to expect them to renounce so much of what they've said jokingly? Even if they were wrong. Like, there is almost a cloud of nostalgia guarding this sort of behavior too. Like, you encounter a bigot and he makes jokes he might defend his nasty jokes because in the back of their mind they remember making such jokes with their dad or something and just having a great time that to them it seems like if you suddenly tell them that they are wrong for making such offensive jokes that their past is null or corrupted.
Yes, I seriously remember with a bit of nostalgia eating chik-fil-a with my family. So I kind of realize that is another reason I defended my actions of continuing to eat their chicken.
But from the perspective of someone who undergoes actual, life-effecting prejudice and discrimination, it's not "all in good fun." Even the most "harmless" of stereotyping juvenile humor simply adds to an overwhelming tide of similar comments, jokes, and actions that some people have to deal with every day. Prejudice is like the proverbial death of a thousand cuts - sure each comment on its own can seem minor, but when you add them all together you have a major, pervasive problem.
Yeah so back to my cyclical argument, what you are saying is true. but that would indicate that at some point (if we successfully tear down most of the prejudiced attitudes that society seems to have.) does that suddenly make LGBT jokes OK? because if we've reached the point where such jokes are uncommon enough (and in my household they are pretty rare) that its more like tens of cuts, like the hypothetical duck dresser would have to deal with from Jamie's movie.
So no, it's not "grasping at straws" to find any kind of stereotyping humor about LGBT people offensive, when the line between playing homosexuality for laughs and serious discrimination is so thin. The kind of joke someone might make who is "okay with gays" and someone who is a seriously hateful person are pretty much identical. Just because the intention of the person making the joke is different doesn't mean it has any less sting, no matter who it's coming from.
Well, you are employing a judgment of "he made a LGBT joke, I should assume he's guilty of being seriously discriminatory gays since I can't tell for sure, I should assume the worst."
On one hand I can actually understand this line of thinking. Its usually a good idea to assume the worst (allowing you to prepare for it) but to at least HOPE for the best "I hope I'm wrong about this person who made this LGBT joke."
But to make many decisions on how you treat them after such a judgement call is important because its possible that they just have that particular unfortunate taste in comedy.
Take for example jamie's Duck Movie. If that was a movie about a woman finding out her partner was secretly bisexual or gay and enjoyed crossdressing in secret, and tried to play it for laughs, it'd be pretty fucking offensive. But as a movie about a secret duck, it's fine, because people who dress up as ducks aren't a systematically oppressed and discriminated-against group who deal with similar shit every day, while LGBT people are. In fact thinking about it now I'm pretty sure that's the point of the movie.
This is an excellent point. actually. Hard to feel bad about a guy that dresses as a duck when there are probably very few specific jokes made about his 'hobby' in his social environment.
how do you like my new avy
How long will this one last? you seem to change you avatars a lot DDay. lol.
OLD THROWBACK RESPONSE to DADA:
Yeah, I can get why you wouldn't like this, but I don't think the "if you're going to boycott something, you have to boycott everything" argument really applies in this case. If someone told me to boycott Apple because their factories employ virtual slaves to do the work, I'd say no. Same for a ton of other things. If you're going to start doing that it becomes extremely hard, probably impossible, not to be hypocritical because literally every other alternative is just as bad. But it's a lot easier in this particular case because the reason for the boycott is something that's unique. Nobody else does this. So I don't consider it hypocritical. But I can get why you'd have a hard time agreeing to this. I think the reason you mention is really the only legit reason for not going along with this.
I thought about this some more. While I'm still not going to eat at Chik-Fil-A. I think a huge reason I had such a mental tug of war was that I honestly thought (and still do) think Chik-Fil-A is unique in that I can't get chicken that tastes like theirs anywhere else. Like, there are pretty much no real substitute. NOW the real reason I still wont buy chicken from them is that, while uniquely delicious, I don't need delicious fast food chicken as much as say (as in your example) computer hardware which, despite involving many different companies is still pretty crowded with equally unethical practices.
Like I really want someone to make a more ethical copy cat of Chik-Fil-A chicken so I can continue to occasionally eat it.
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To get back to the original discussion...
I have not actually watched enough of the Adult Party Cartoons to have a good grasp of how it depicts homosexuality. But in any context, using homosexuality itself as the butt of a joke, with no other gag, is fairly offensive. It is deliberately stereotyping a marginalized group of people for laughs.
From the perspective of someone unaffected by anti-LGBT prejudice, it's too easy to dismiss it as "it's just a joke and all in good fun" or "they're joking about it just like they joke about anything else - LGBT shouldn't get special treatment in this respect." If you're not offended, why should anyone else, right?
But from the perspective of someone who undergoes actual, life-effecting prejudice and discrimination, it's not "all in good fun." Even the most "harmless" of stereotyping juvenile humor simply adds to an overwhelming tide of similar comments, jokes, and actions that some people have to deal with every day. Prejudice is like the proverbial death of a thousand cuts - sure each comment on its own can seem minor, but when you add them all together you have a major, pervasive problem.
So no, it's not "grasping at straws" to find any kind of stereotyping humor about LGBT people offensive, when the line between playing homosexuality for laughs and serious discrimination is so thin. The kind of joke someone might make who is "okay with gays" and someone who is a seriously hateful person are pretty much identical. Just because the intention of the person making the joke is different doesn't mean it has any less sting, no matter who it's coming from.
This would make sense if it was some kind of one-off joke on gays, but it's not, it's basically built into the characters... So, considering that you come right out and say you don't know enough about the show to weigh in either way, what's your point?
This is why it's really frustrating to have a focused conversation like this. I don't disagree with what you have to say. I did not say it's grasping at straws to find stereotyping humor of LGBT people offensive. What I said was that I don't think it's the case here and 'it's a stretch' or 'reaching' to suggest that in this specific case. I am, for the record, not denying that it exists elsewhere or is a problem or is bad or should be criticized.
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drink more~
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drink more~
yeah i'm going out right now 4 beerz
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My comment:
use of "gay" as a noun.
Pluralisation of "gays"
Fdoidfhyo;dsf bo9'xç?¨ [04139 no=nc 094~AFRGHSiju æ‘\o0 =rtr
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What is it about pressure by the way? Like I've been playing pinball on my own and I fucking rock. But the second someone is watching, or I have to beat a highscore, I go to pieces.
Like an example, I can get like 20mill on my first ball easily, if the highscore I'm trying to beat is like 40mill. Then my second ball will get me nearer, but then on the last ball, even if I only have to get 1mill to win, I ALWAYS choke.
Like is there some psychology behind that or some shit?
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Fdoidfhyo;dsf bo9'xç?¨ [04139 no=nc 094~AFRGHSiju æ‘\o0 =rtr
you have been banned for hacking.
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What is it about pressure by the way? Like I've been playing pinball on my own and I fucking rock. But the second someone is watching, or I have to beat a highscore, I go to pieces.
Like an example, I can get like 20mill on my first ball easily, if the highscore I'm trying to beat is like 40mill. Then my second ball will get me nearer, but then on the last ball, even if I only have to get 1mill to win, I ALWAYS choke.
Like is there some psychology behind that or some shit?
Yes. When under pressure, most people begin sucking at whatever they are doing, you know, choking. Its failing to do a task that you are normally good at because you begin THINKING about it instead of relying on your developed instinctual level skill.
So when you start fucking up, remember: ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE THINKING
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There's a pinball/icecream chain in Seattle that has amazing ice cream and some pretty excellent pinball/arcade machines.
There's one called Centaur that I really like. It's fairly basic, just one level with none of the split-level shenanigans that a lot of other games do. The machine commands you in a guttural, reverberating voice. Best of all, the backglass features a kick-ass heavy metal scene of Centaur himself, who is apparently half Orc, half demonic motorcycle.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/mirror2.ipdb.org/images/476/image-7.jpeg)
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I managed to make a song in like 10.75389275573253656/4
http://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/philbin (http://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/philbin)
it changes throughout the song too, then half-tempo
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Sounds like a Casio drum tempo reprogrammed by a chimpanzee.
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does pinball count as a table top game? does ping pong?
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Nah its an arcade game.
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oh right, yeah
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Like I can understand the confusion though. Usually one thinks of VIDEO arcade games.
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My comment:
use of "gay" as a noun.
Pluralisation of "gays"
Fdoidfhyo;dsf bo9'xç?¨ [04139 no=nc 094~AFRGHSiju æ‘\o0 =rtr
it's p. commonly used in the US-of-A among the straights and gays alike.
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There's a pinball/icecream chain in Seattle that has amazing ice cream and some pretty excellent pinball/arcade machines.
There's one called Centaur that I really like. It's fairly basic, just one level with none of the split-level shenanigans that a lot of other games do. The machine commands you in a guttural, reverberating voice. Best of all, the backglass features a kick-ass heavy metal scene of Centaur himself, who is apparently half Orc, half demonic motorcycle.
is that the one down in white center or ballard?
i used to go to the one in white center quite a bit.
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it's p. commonly used in the US-of-A among the straights and gays alike.
I can vouch for this actually. Not that DC needs it here. Or especially from me. :P
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it's p. commonly used in the US-of-A among the straights and gays alike.
Yes, but STRAIGHT is also currently used as a term across the globe (like you just have) to refer to heterosexuals, without considering the actual meaning of the word and its antonym - bent. That doesn't make it correct, or inoffensive really.
Like I'm not having a go at you for using it really, but I've spoken about this before. I understand that BLACKS is commonly used in the US also to refer to black people. I don't believe that it's correct to turn an adjective into a noun to refer to a group of people. You don't say fats, poors, disableds, or shorts to refer to individuals, why is it ok to do so in reference to sexuality or race?
Straight is actually something that bothers me a lot, due to the common way it is used. It denotes inherent prejudice in the use of the term itself. If you're straight, I'm bent. That's the opposite of that. And bent was an extremely negative word used commonly in the UK to refer to gay people. Fuck, some people still use it now.
"Gays" is a real pet peeve of mine though really. I've always hated its use - but then again, living in the UK rather than the US, I guess I don't have to encounter it too much at all. It only tends to be right-wing tabloids that use it here (referring to THE GAYS as a group etc).
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Oh yeah I remember you saying that actually.
A big reason that I imagine that it'd be hard to change is that gay and straight are already cemented vocabulary, even among the people the terms it should arguably offend.
Like I could see myself hearing someone say the term "straight" and saying like "hey that term is offensive, you should use a different word, like hetero" and them being regular people would just look at me like I'm a douche or crazy, roll their eyes and go "psh the fuck ever".
Normal social situations are dumb. :/ Then again the issue of normalcy is precisely the problem... The normalcy of these word's uses.
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You don't say fats, poors, disableds, or shorts to refer to individuals, why is it ok to do so in reference to sexuality or race?
I say "olds" when referring to old ppl, but that's pretty deliberate on my part :>
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i say "poors" when refering to poor people but that's because i'm marie antoinette
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I've called myself a fatty.
Though hey, calling someone a gay actually probably isn't as bad since being gay isn't considered a bad thing (well, to most people... though maybe not in my area) but being fat is. Its why no one refers to anyone as "fat person" "a fat" or "a fatty" unless they are specifically trying to insult that person or they are just messing with the person.
This also brings up the word lesbian. Which is a noun.
However, I understand the issue of reducing people to a handful of labels in any case being bad. Especially, labels that designate you as a minority like gay. So yeah its understandable if it irks you.
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So Mitt Romney basically threw in the towel by picking Paul Ryan as his VP.
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Paul Ryan: Lunchables salesman, catfish noodler, Rage Against The Machine fan and Republican heart throb.
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Aw, I like Rage Against The machine...
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that's the LAST band I'd expect you to like based upon name alone....
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My name doesn't mean anything though. I just sort of picked it.
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a name doesn't mean a thing on the battlefield
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Remember when people wanted Paul Ryan to become a candidate for president and all the Republicans went "nah, he's too young and inexperienced, let him be congressman for a couple more years and then we'll talk"?
It's basically another Sarah Palin, except Paul Ryan is less likely to practically break down crying when being interviewed by Katie Couric.
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In other news, looks like John K's kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1056985656/john-ks-cans-without-labels) met its goal. Read through the page just now and the concept looks great.
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You guys see this show Adventure Time on cartoon network? It's pretty good. I guess I'm late to the party since they're on season 4 and I've only seen like 8 or 10 episodes from S1 but... they are really good. I can see this as the kind of show that if you grew up watching it it'd have a really positive effect on you. It walks a good line between kid and adult jokes, nothing has been so "kiddy" that it's been hard to watch, and there's been plenty of adult jokes and great songs and things like that.
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yeah it's a great show. some of the episodes are clunkers but most of them are great, any episode with marceline or bmo is automatically good.
and yeah it's a pretty positive show for kids to watch, unlike the new my little pony or johnny test or probably anything they're showing on nickelodeon or disney
edit best episodes afaicr : evicted, henchman, it came from the nightosphere, go with me, video makers, too young, what was missing, thank you
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i discovered it a few months ago and have been watching episodes since then, i like it. sometimes it gets a bit too cutesy for me but hey it's a kids' show so big deal, it is funny and i mostly like its attitude. it hits a lot of the right marks that i like especially in animated shows. i'd like to talk about it more but it is late and i'm falling asleep so maybe tomorrow.
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I've seen an episode of that, I have some taped on the ol' Skybox.
Like it seemed like a modern cartoon I'd actually enjoy maybe, wtf!
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Evicted was the episode that made me love it. I really like My Two Favorite People as well.
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EVERYBODY GO OUTSIDE TO SEE THE PERSEID METEOR SHOWER!
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There's a storm here and there is massive lightning.
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Same, it knocked my net off.
I was SCARED OH NO
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i watch adventure time w/ my nephew sometimes. the regular show is really funny, and gravity falls is like twin peaks jr. seems like lots of good kids tv on atm.
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I saw part of the first gravity falls, it had nice bg art. I think regular show is supposed to appeal to an older crowd too, since mordecai and rigby are supposed to be 23 I think and it makes a lot of references to the 90s
gumball is also good. a little more for kids but another positive show for them to watch
also been waiting to post this http://youtu.be/HNackwTfNlw
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I wish I had theme song so badass that I'd upload any video just for a chance to show it off
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/07/paul-ryan-wisconsin-protester-handcuffed_n_952818.html
"I have a broken clavicle from a car accident I had about four weeks ago, and it's in the process of healing, but it's not done yet. So I was protecting that. I said, 'Don't hurt me! I have a broken shoulder here and collarbone.' They didn't pay attention to that. They put the cuffs on really, really tightly."
[...]
After Nielsen was removed from the event, Ryan tried to make light of the situation, saying, "I hope he's taking his blood pressure medication."
ha ha ha ha good one paul ryan I get it he's old
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why have i never done this before??
currently looking at gamingw.net/forums on the wayback machine
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Holy fuck that avatar..
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is there a higher resolution version of that
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I reviewed David Bowie's 'Low' and got a bit carried away (http://isleofeverywhere.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/david-bowie-low.html)
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why have i never done this before??
currently looking at gamingw.net/forums on the wayback machine
No stop before it's too laaaaaate
*black hole of nostalgia sucks Girl Bones in never to be seen again*
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i don't really get nostalgic for old gw posts because i was an awful person back then and so were most of the rest of us
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when i look back at old threads i'm just grossed out
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haha, yeah pretty much. it's kinda fun to look at the parts i didn't touch, but when a post of mine rears its ugly head, uh oh
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you guys too, huh
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nah who cares.
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Yeah, I was... bad. I said horrifically stupid things that make me want to gouge my eyes out when I read them.
EDIT: its a good thing though to know that someone can improve from horrible to OK though. (silver lining)
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I have a lot of you guys beat with stupid shit. There's a bunch of posts where Steel was calling me out just tearing me to shreds... and he was always right.
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all steel posts were good and some people were nice too but ofc i'm not included to that. and yeah fuck old gw. nostalgia might kill new sw than anything but looks like that might not become the case...
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lol I got an old sansa at goodwill there were only 8 tracks on it but it was like Final Fantasy Advent Children OST Final Fantasy ocremix Bleach opening #2 matrix 2 trance hause tehcno
edit: also something that I thought was a real song/real music interests for a second but it's the Mirror's Edge theme apparently
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I went to the mall in my hometown for the first time in years, and it's more depressing than I can express with words. I've been watching for outside opinions on "what is america" lately, and this is the biggest thing they're always missing. without exaggeration, half the stores were vacant with old signs missing letters, there were lots of people dragging around their crying kids by the arm or hitting them, a crazy guy said "let's get the fuck out of here, I ain't buying anything from the relation of a Jew", and all of this while that snow patrol song that goes "if I just lay here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiRa_DwalQc)" was playing in the background. I think this is a better representation of the america I grew up in than anything else
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From what you describe, that kind of thing isn't just the US. There is quite a lot of that kind of stuff in Scotland too. Replace the jew comment with a different group, since we don't have very many jewish people in Scotland.
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Poverty, bigotry, ignorance, and suffering are pretty universal I'm afraid.
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Well I just meant the specifically depressing nature of run down malls, retail parks and high streets. My hometown, Airdrie, has had a lot of places closing in its town centre and there are many vacant spaces. The few new businesses get desperate with offers and trying to appeal to the widest possible market quickly. There is an indian restaurant which started off being a proper kind of place and now it's got boards outside advertising two for one deals on chips and curry sauce and it is always empty they're fucked but it was a bad idea to start their business there I guess.
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i discovered it a few months ago and have been watching episodes since then, i like it. sometimes it gets a bit too cutesy for me but hey it's a kids' show so big deal, it is funny and i mostly like its attitude. it hits a lot of the right marks that i like especially in animated shows. i'd like to talk about it more but it is late and i'm falling asleep so maybe tomorrow.
i watch adventure time w/ my nephew sometimes. the regular show is really funny, and gravity falls is like twin peaks jr. seems like lots of good kids tv on atm.
these are very good shows. great writing, characters really good in general, and of course it's amazing how much they get past the radar. there are indeed a few "clunkers" in both adventure time and regular show but that's normal in any great series; they're just bad in relation to the other episodes, which are p much perfect.
speaking of shockingly-great-despite-themselves primetime cartoon network shows, have you guys seen the mad tv cartoon they have on? amazingly relevant and witty despite avoiding profanity. this sketch is pretty good - Moneyball Z http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUWqrti_wnQ (parody of moneyball/dragon ball), v good
the best part is when they start showing the credits for the King Kong movie during vegeta's charge up
sorry for lack of articulation i have a lot to say about these fine arts but on very little sleep...............and not feeling the creative kind of sleep deprived right now. just.....blank..._____
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lol you guys should take a trip to Flint or Detroit MI if you wanna see the fuckin' dregs. It's nuts too cuz it used to be the industrial center of global capitalism.
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maybe you're right jamie, tho "town center" throws me off. it sounds like there's still some sort of cultural legacy there, and besides there are no town centers here in the american suburbs except for the contrived ones you drive to from your mcmansion
also there are almost no jews in my hometown either and idk if the person was actually jewish. the guy was just nuts in a really american kind of way
lol you guys should take a trip to Flint or Detroit MI if you wanna see the fuckin' dregs. It's nuts too cuz it used to be the industrial center of global capitalism.
from what I've read detroit is pretty nuts and different from other postindustrial cities. like rather than having wealthy cores with poor areas in the periphery, you have these isolated wealthy properties floating around throughout the city. but that's still a postindustrial city OLD NEWS I'm talking post-suburban, the dregs of global shit that was already cheap and artificial before it got abandoned. this is the current trend, and unlike postindustrial urban centers aint nobody gonna revitalize shopping malls, big box stores and housing developments
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lol you guys should take a trip to Flint or Detroit MI if you wanna see the fuckin' dregs. It's nuts too cuz it used to be the industrial center of global capitalism.
I hear the rust belt over at the northeast of China is a sight to behold too.
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maybe you're right jamie, tho "town center" throws me off. it sounds like there's still some sort of cultural legacy there, and besides there are no town centers here in the american suburbs except for the contrived ones you drive to from your mcmansion
also there are almost no jews in my hometown either and idk if the person was actually jewish. the guy was just nuts in a really american kind of wayfrom what I've read detroit is pretty nuts and different from other postindustrial cities. like rather than having wealthy cores with poor areas in the periphery, you have these isolated wealthy properties floating around throughout the city. but that's still a postindustrial city OLD NEWS I'm talking post-suburban, the dregs of global shit that was already cheap and artificial before it got abandoned. this is the current trend, and unlike postindustrial urban centers aint nobody gonna revitalize shopping malls, big box stores and housing developments
yeah i was more referring to the suburban periphery of these places. Detroit has begun cutting off certain sections of the city from the power grid and there's just rotten plywood covering every orifice of every shitty chipped-paint building and vacant box stores with the name of them weathered into the side where the sign used to sit.
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http://www.naturalnews.com/036776_pedophiles_Penn_State_conspiracy.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/036776_pedophiles_Penn_State_conspiracy.html)
man just how deep does the rabbit hole go? it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
this hasn't been proven yet I guess but I really wouldn't be surprised if it does get proven, even if this website doesn't look like the most reliable one.
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the situation in which this is shocking but totally unsurprising and believable is already a horrifying one
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that's in my state, joe paterno was a minor god to college football fans and last I checked a lot of my facebook friends were still convinced of his innocence and blamed the media for him being fired/his eventual death. there are conspiracy theories that the whole thing was a set up to take down Penn State football. now that the ball is rolling a whole bunch of other accusations about the college are popping up, and apparently there's a problem with their famous ice cream too. one of the most popular flavors was Peachy Paterno
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It's 5am, I should be working on an assignment that was due yesterday and I haven't started.. eugh motivation.
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5am? Are you in EASTASIA?
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Oh AUSTRALIA!!
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It's 5am, I should be working on an assignment that was due yesterday and I haven't started.. eugh motivation.
What is it about.
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We need to create a piece of art that is an abstract visual representation of a song. Mixed media preferably
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that sounds fun
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Man I wish I was at uni...
Some day, some day...
Although a PhD would be significantly different to lower levels I guess. Much less smoking pot and playing videoganes...
Haha also apparently I am all about the ellipses...
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http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/ (http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/)
this is interesting
I like changing it so you have to memorize color shape position and audio at the same time, it's really confusing/reminds me of gaming/childhood in some way, getting disoriented = fun
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this is legitimately terrible right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM)
I dare you to watch the whole thing.
Also anybody remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGkQjiX8Tw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGkQjiX8Tw)
I know someone on GW introduced me to that (I always think steel, maybe sredni, possibly even chef or someone who frequented the youtube/video thread in p911). Anyway I still maintain this is a fantastic video beyond the weirdness at first. His performance is pretty good? I don't know anything about this type of "performance" (??) but... I still think it's really cool and good. And entertaining.
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this is legitimately terrible right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM)
I dare you to watch the whole thing.
Also anybody remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGkQjiX8Tw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGkQjiX8Tw)
I know someone on GW introduced me to that (I always think steel, maybe sredni, possibly even chef or someone who frequented the youtube/video thread in p911). Anyway I still maintain this is a fantastic video beyond the weirdness at first. His performance is pretty good? I don't know anything about this type of "performance" (??) but... I still think it's really cool and good. And entertaining.
I watched it all and the only thing terrible is you. Sorry it had to be said.
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no, it can't be.
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it's cool if he decided it was great and this was the first time he had ever heard of that song.
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I don't know, DDay lives in new jersey, there's no way he hasn't heard it before.
Also while the song is pretty obviously stupid, the video itself, and that douchebaggy face david lee roth makes is so irritating and stupid. It's hard to imagine people watched that and were like "Haha oh man, those van halen boys are so fuckin cool."
It made me think of all the stupid shit we have today, and all the terrible bands people incessantly make fun of, but that shit has always been around. I guess this band solidified that feeling for me because I kind of grew up with that "era" of music, it was the main type of music that my mom and her friends listened to in high school, so it just kind of occupies that space where before you were really able to judge music it was just "the cool music" or what-have-you. Looking back it was not just stupid, but objectively dumb and terrible. I don't know why it spurred a train of thought like that but it did.
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I can't stand Van Halen's music, which is a shame, because he was such an original and fun guitarist, and after learning parts of eruption (and later teaching some dude in a metal band that awesome tapping section), it's just like,poop. 80's hair metal sucks (unless it involves Steve vai).
Man, things suck right now, my is she/isn't she girlfriend's off to uni in four/five weeks, so we've gotta split. Yesterday I went to the funeral of a childhood friend (knew him since I was about 2, he died of a brain tumour), my credit card still hasn't been paid off (thanks to manic episodes resulting in buying lots and lots of records/lego/chocolate) and the only thing that's keeping me going right now is the vague hope that the demo I'm working on will be picked up by an independent lable like Riot Season. But even then, I'm unsure that my music is good enough, if not, I'll try and try again, all while living a crappy generic life in a crappy generic job, not able to leave my parent's house again. Serious crippling headaches and pains, and lack of awareness/concentration due to depression and stress, but my doctors know that if i don't keep myself busy with what I'm doing (working on my music when possible, working on my music blog, working exhausting shifts dealing with white van men) then I'll just fall apart, leaving me in a nasty situation where being in constant pain and not sleeping is actually better than the alternative. I regularly give to charity and shop in charity stores (varies from 1-10% of my wages), yet feel I'm not doing enough to help people. I always look out and help other people, but feel that the same doesn't happen to me, and when the lows kick in, it feels that it's all one massive conspiracy to keep me miserable, with everybody from my parents to david cameron, religious leaders to reincarnated dictators.
Over the next two or three years, I'm hoping to put enough money together to do a Masters Degree in something along the lines of art history, culture studies, music journalism. Something where I can write about Frank Zappa basically. I know I write to a high standard and enjoy tackling controversial/new ideas/subjects (my dissertation was about how monsters(demons, devils etc) in fine art represent male violent sexual desires, it was concidered ma/phd quality, and they liked the fact that it was a pretty new/original subject that hasn't really been gone into in depth before), but I don't know if anything will work out.
Sorry for the desperate rant, just sometimes I need to splurt shit out like an arsehole dolphin with a bad case of blue balls. Keep trucking and all that jazz.
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peep this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IArxakPsPE0
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now it's great:
http://soundcloud.com/yankees8289/van-pop-the-bran-flakes
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norman finkelstein, an expert on israel-palestine, keeps getting death threats from some guy. and he keeps posting jokes about it on his facebook and blog in an apparent (and successful) attempt to make the guy even more angry.
in chronological order, starting with the first post.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/an-email-from-another-satisfied-customer/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/an-email-from-another-satisfied-customer/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/i-will-always-love-you/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/i-will-always-love-you/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/uh-oh-hes-back/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/uh-oh-hes-back/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/anger-management-one-more-try/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/anger-management-one-more-try/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/bad-news-and-good-news/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/bad-news-and-good-news/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/babs-you-let-me-down/ (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/babs-you-let-me-down/)
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/help-is-on-the-way/
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no, it can't be.
I don't know, DDay lives in new jersey, there's no way he hasn't heard it before.
Also while the song is pretty obviously stupid, the video itself, and that douchebaggy face david lee roth makes is so irritating and stupid. It's hard to imagine people watched that and were like "Haha oh man, those van halen boys are so fuckin cool."
It made me think of all the stupid shit we have today, and all the terrible bands people incessantly make fun of, but that shit has always been around. I guess this band solidified that feeling for me because I kind of grew up with that "era" of music, it was the main type of music that my mom and her friends listened to in high school, so it just kind of occupies that space where before you were really able to judge music it was just "the cool music" or what-have-you. Looking back it was not just stupid, but objectively dumb and terrible. I don't know why it spurred a train of thought like that but it did.
I don't think the song is bad (witch yes I heard it countless times after all I do live in New jersey and I too grew up with it.) and the video is bit creepy but not bad it seems to be on par with the 80's and early 90's. The song uses the word jump as a metaphor to taking a risk sadly he saying to take risk to go out with him . but the song is good in my book and catchy.
But let's talk about his newest single OMG I hate this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfQ-hV3WtA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfQ-hV3WtA) Tattoo.
If this is the best in the album they should of never did another there like gun and roses and there Chinese Shitocracy.
all it is is ruining there creditability and leads me to think badly on them.
But I did hear that the new album from Van Halen had some good songs but this is coming from a man that said the song isn't that bad other then the lyrics and I tend to disagree with that.
On that note I will leave you with this quote and will like it spread around like an internet meme. "Show me your dragoon magic"
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peep this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IArxakPsPE0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IArxakPsPE0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxqMpGAL3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxqMpGAL3I) this is even better, everyone watch this. DON'T WATCH OBAMA'S VIDEO!!!!
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i finally hit the infamous tweet jail...i wish i had known this so i could at least have said somethin like CAN'T TWEET ANYMORE GOODNIGHT
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i tweeted too fast and too good and too long . . . no more tweets from me for tonight . . . what a shame
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Twitter Jail is a period of ~1-3 hours where you can’t tweet, and occurs if you exceed more than 100 tweets per hour
How in the, I don't even know how you could do that.
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shithsithsit my browser is hijacked. this blows, it's gonna take a week at this rate to fix this
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How in the, I don't even know how you could do that.
Carrying on convos with a lot of people at the same time mostly.
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I was talkin to like ten people. That's ten tweets per person. Not a hard thing. And you only have to exceed it once, so do over 100 tweets in an hour and you're locked out for a bit
It wasn't 100 tweets of JUST ATE A SANDWICH
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/it-would-be-an-honor-to-serve-my-country-return-wi,29183/
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idk if it's just me, but the onion's been getting much better as of late. their weekly series sex house and dredge lake appraisal are both really hilarious too.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7oa5A2LRj4
this is incredible
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EVEN BETTER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6o4GWFIV8
HOLY SHIT
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Why do some people say mang instead of man? Context: 'come on, mang.' 'yeah, damn straight, mang.'
Now I may be jumping to conclusions here but I have noticed it is only either creepy guys or on creepy message boards (whether the individuals are creeps I don't have enough info to decide) who say 'mang.'.
Is this a creeper thing? Cos mang does strike me as some kind of gross mutation of the word man...like mangs are slimy and watch very bad cartoons.
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virginia newbon
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buddy!!! pal!!!!! :^>
maybe does not move you but guess who went to see a buster keaton movie with guana w/ live playing over the movie...
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gasp belross is posting YMO
talk to me about my favourite band
listen to both of these albums (self-titled debut and solid state survivor) if you want to have a revelation as to where video game music comes from
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virginia newbon
I googled this but I still have no idea what it is
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Why do some people say mang instead of man? Context: 'come on, mang.' 'yeah, damn straight, mang.'
Now I may be jumping to conclusions here but I have noticed it is only either creepy guys or on creepy message boards (whether the individuals are creeps I don't have enough info to decide) who say 'mang.'.
Is this a creeper thing? Cos mang does strike me as some kind of gross mutation of the word man...like mangs are slimy and watch very bad cartoons.
Watch any films with latino gangsters, such as Carlito's way! Everyone pronounces it mang in those.
"Hey mang, I shit my diaper mang" - Lalin (otherwise known as Aragorn lol)
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Yeah, its a Latino gangster thing. A lot of non-Latino people say it that way though as sort of an imitation occasionally.
I say 'zaright' instead of 'that's alright' on occasion which I'm pretty sure I heard in a movie featuring Latino gangsters as well but I don't remember the specific source.
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I wouldn't even say its a gangster thing, just a lil dialect-twist/slang used by ppl from Spanish speaking countries in the Americas living in the US.
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I wouldn't even say its a gangster thing, just a lil dialect-twist/slang used by ppl from Spanish speaking countries in the Americas living in the US.
Yeah true.
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oh, okay, well i was way off then!
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nah people who purposely type it out on the internet probably aren't hispanic imo but idk
and I dunno if it's just a stereotype or a regional thing or what, but none of the hispanic people w/ accents that I know say it.
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In my experience, most people that mang these days are white people that thought Scarface was really rad.
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nah people who purposely type it out on the internet probably aren't hispanic imo but idk
and I dunno if it's just a stereotype or a regional thing or what, but none of the hispanic people w/ accents that I know say it.
definitely a regional thing, ive heard it a lot on the west coast
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nah people who purposely type it out on the internet probably aren't hispanic imo but idk
and I dunno if it's just a stereotype or a regional thing or what, but none of the hispanic people w/ accents that I know say it.
I guess they just wanna sound cool like Al Pacino.
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I'm researching how to watch Japanese TV with Sopcast, here's one address so far (will add more later, just posting it so I don't forget about it):
sop://117.135.141.178:3920/5377 - ??? ?? JOEX-TV? ??? (TV Asahi JOEX-TV Live Online)
edit: oh yeah stupid SMF doesn't even support utf8.
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Save the Pearls: Revealing Eden
HAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK.
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Save the Pearls: Revealing Eden
HAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK.
really fun watchin the author of this trying to explain why it's totally not racist
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Save the Pearls: Revealing Eden
HAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK.
It's funny, in the front of my mind I am thinking "How could the author consciously write something like this without even considering the possibility that people would overwhelmingly criticize what she writes as racism", but in the back of my mind I start thinking "well actually, I can't imagine a book like this being ever written by anyone EXCEPT the one person who never even considered such a possibility in the first place."
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Yeah, I don't think the writer had any idea of how people would respond to her book from what I've read about it.
I think the idea of "Black people are the majority" could possibly be pulled off with the right writer or message behind it (like how the color of skin doesn't affect how a society is ran or something.) However, she clearly was not the right writer and she used it as a background for a generic Young Adult romance book that clumsily and insensitively dealt with race.
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"What is brown and looks like shit?"
Windows 8?
http://www.tested.com/videos/234585-quick-look-at-windows-8-rtm/ (http://www.tested.com/videos/234585-quick-look-at-windows-8-rtm/)
Man it looks so bad to me. At least windows 7 will get cheaper if they don't pull it from shelves.
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Yeah, I don't think the writer had any idea of how people would respond to her book from what I've read about it.
I think the idea of "Black people are the majority" could possibly be pulled off with the right writer or message behind it (like how the color of skin doesn't affect how a society is ran or something.) However, she clearly was not the right writer and she used it as a background for a generic Young Adult romance book that clumsily and insensitively dealt with race.
someone on her facebook said this but basically it's funny that the most horrific dystopian world she could think of is one in which black people were the majority
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it's important not to necessarily correlate majority with privilege w/r/t race, the history of post-colonial africa is the story of minority white populations oppressing black and maghreb africans
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True. I just quickly came up with some scenario where that setting could potentially work.
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Anyone else here run?
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Anyone else here run?
i do, but i also smoke so i'm at that point where i'll go on a 2-4 mile run once or twice a week and every other day I hit the treadmill, that's it though. I have some friends that are completely insane and go on like 15 mile trail runs and shit. their knees are toast in like 10 years i bet.
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Dude, the fact that you run even though you smoke is pretty praiseworthy.
I can barely deal with stairs sometimes!
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I walk or swim (I don't swim very often).
Mostly due to the joint damage and what not but mostly because I'm not INTENSE enough to run.
@DDay, yeah I was just saying that. Win8 looks horrifically awful.
Yeah, I don't think the writer had any idea of how people would respond to her book from what I've read about it.
I think the idea of "Black people are the majority" could possibly be pulled off with the right writer or message behind it (like how the color of skin doesn't affect how a society is ran or something.) However, she clearly was not the right writer and she used it as a background for a generic Young Adult romance book that clumsily and insensitively dealt with race.
IDK that 'clumsily' is a strong enough word. She calls black people 'coals' and 'beastmen' and calls white people 'pearls'. :|
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Running is one of the few excercises I like to do (that and cycling), but my asthma has gotten worse in the last couple years so it's kinda hard (plus I'm fat at the moment). I have quit smoking for like, a year and a half (since January 2011), and that's good. Problem is like once every 2 or 3 months I get some flare-up (I'm having one right now, doctor's appt. tomorrow, for like 2 weeks just been having constant asthma attacks, sucks bad) and I can't do much anything physical. But for the 2-3 months where I'm OK it's possible to run and I do occasionally. There's something very peaceful and serene about running, when you can fall into the groove and you just feel like a machine, your stride and breaths match, and you're just bouncing along, I love it. I can't run much distance, though, I can go about a mile before I start to get really tired (not enough practice), and I usually walk for a few minutes around the 3/4mi. mark. I tend to just run on a treadmill though (and half the time as soon as I look at the treadmill I just hop on a bicycle instead) in my apartment complex's gym.
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http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12393909-revealing-eden#other_reviews
here are some lols
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IDK that 'clumsily' is a strong enough word. She calls black people 'coals' and 'beastmen' and calls white people 'pearls'. :|
Holy shit, I didn't know about the beastmen thing. I guess I was giving her the benefit of the doubt up to this point but I will stop now.
And Ragnar those reviews are priceless.
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farnham's freehold is a white minority novel but it's nuts in a different way
running is bogus, I ride bike. take care of your legs, ankles, knees, and hips. I've already had knee problems and while it was mostly fixed with physical therapy it's not something you wanna have happen. if you're doing it for that self-destructive runners high don't, just get high like normal people god
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I've been running a bit lately amongst other things like trampoline and an exercise bike. I know what you are talking about with the 'runner's high' because I've been...chasing it......that's what it's all about for me. I want to get mentally stoned on exercise.
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farnham's freehold is a white minority novel but it's nuts in a different way
running is bogus, I ride bike. take care of your legs, ankles, knees, and hips. I've already had knee problems and while it was mostly fixed with physical therapy it's not something you wanna have happen. if you're doing it for that self-destructive runners high don't, just get high like normal people god
what did you do in the physical therapy? jedi therapy...
also short, intense burst interval training is probably the way to go...
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Dude, the fact that you run even though you smoke is pretty praiseworthy.
I can barely deal with stairs sometimes!
I'm a pretty light smoker though. These days I go through like a pack a week and usually smoke like half a cigarette at a time.
If I go out a lot during the week it's a different story, I turn to it to ease social anxiety and smoke a lot more.
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i'm gonna be smoking a whole lot more starting tomorrow. gonna be in china for like a month and i'm so excited to just puff anywhere and everywhere lookin' all cool and shit.
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i'm gonna be smoking a whole lot more starting tomorrow. gonna be in china for like a month and i'm so excited to just puff anywhere and everywhere lookin' all cool and shit.
yeeehawww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! remember the piccie... ?B^B or ahah it's ok do as you want but i kinda like the idea/thought/how it supplements the dietcoke image or w/e. have fun!!
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i'm gonna be smoking a whole lot more starting tomorrow. gonna be in china for like a month and i'm so excited to just puff anywhere and everywhere lookin' all cool and shit.
theirs a lot of bad driving there be careful.
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yo, check your privilege, 3+1 spacetime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime#Privileged_character_of_3.2B1_spacetime)
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yo, check your privilege, 3+1 spacetime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime#Privileged_character_of_3.2B1_spacetime)
I always suspected that 3+1 was the white male equivalent of theoretical spacetime models.
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That's one of the most interesting things I've ever read on wikipedia.
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That's one of the most interesting things I've ever read on wikipedia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIadtFJYWhw
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what did you do in the physical therapy? jedi therapy...
also short, intense burst interval training is probably the way to go...
stretches, exercises, weight lifting..............pretty boring, part of my kneecap was misaligned and rubbing bone on bone bra
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Damn dude my aunt and mom both had knee issues like that, they had no cartilage (or whatever it is that absorbs the impacts there... I think it's the cartilage) and were always bone-on-bone, and apparently it's excruciating. They have shots that inject some padding in there but it will wear down, etc. My aunt has it far worse (I think she has none left, my mom has little), she can barely walk. It's pretty sad :( She's also going blind, not sure what it is but basically the center of vision will eventually go away (she'll only be able to see in her peripheral, not sure if that will be affected or by how much).
But yeah ruining your knees/ankles would be pretty terrible, it's a good reason to go easy on running, and to learn how to run properly. You're supposed to run on the balls of your feet, etc. etc. Though isn't biking still hard on parts, like your hips and lower back? You're also more susceptible to hemorrhoids, aren't you? I like biking/cycling more (I don't actually own a bike, I use a stationary one) than running for sure.
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I'm going to start uploading stuff to freesound
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both me and my younger brother got Osgood–Schlatter. Got me out of gym class as a kid couple of times.
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stretches, exercises, weight lifting..............pretty boring, part of my kneecap was misaligned and rubbing bone on bone bra
the thought of this murders me, i hope i don't get it
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Why do some people say mang instead of man? Context: 'come on, mang.' 'yeah, damn straight, mang.'
WOAH
so tHATs what they were saying in don miguels niggaz v satan (http://stifu.free.fr/en/rpg95-games-nvs.php).
yowassupmang.wav
10 yr mystery solved. like i thought they jus had a russian accent or something
well that too but u kno
ALSO speaking of that and also WOAH
http://rpgmaker2000.narod.ru/oldnews3.htm (http://rpgmaker2000.narod.ru/oldnews3.htm)
http://www.stifu.fr/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108 (http://www.stifu.fr/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108)
P.S. There's new Earthbound2 charaset at my [/size]CharaSets folder (http://rpgtcool2000.chat.ru/charasets/)[/size].[/color][/size]
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I just noticed we have a square thingy beside our username that lights up when we're online. SINCE WHEN WAS THAT THERE
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Damn dude my aunt and mom both had knee issues like that, they had no cartilage (or whatever it is that absorbs the impacts there... I think it's the cartilage) and were always bone-on-bone, and apparently it's excruciating. They have shots that inject some padding in there but it will wear down, etc. My aunt has it far worse (I think she has none left, my mom has little), she can barely walk. It's pretty sad :( She's also going blind, not sure what it is but basically the center of vision will eventually go away (she'll only be able to see in her peripheral, not sure if that will be affected or by how much).
But yeah ruining your knees/ankles would be pretty terrible, it's a good reason to go easy on running, and to learn how to run properly. You're supposed to run on the balls of your feet, etc. etc. Though isn't biking still hard on parts, like your hips and lower back? You're also more susceptible to hemorrhoids, aren't you? I like biking/cycling more (I don't actually own a bike, I use a stationary one) than running for sure.
I've still got cartilage, what they've got is worse tho I'm still susceptible. yeah, biking has its own set of issues depending on the type of bike you ride. guys can get temporary prostate problems from the seat too
and yeah my problem appeared because I wasn't running/walking properly and my arches were falling. I'm sure you can run a moderate amount without anything bad happening
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WOAH
so tHATs what they were saying in don miguels niggaz v satan (http://stifu.free.fr/en/rpg95-games-nvs.php).
yowassupmang.wav
I still want to finish NVS because I love the idea of a poorly translated russian Earthbound
I also figured out where Don Miguel lives via the game
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nothing knew today I rode my bike pissed someone off on Facebook. Kinda of funny how that happen I saw someone on my feed post a picture of Rocket Power (Nickelodeon show) someone said it was the best show and all I made was a statement that "it was good show but was not the best."
Just stating my option about the show. Then go on a bike ride and picking up something to eat. Got home ate the food looked at my feed once more and saw my comment deleted. So I asked "what's with the comment removal" and clarified that "Rocket Power was the best show at the time it was airing. But I can think of better nickelodeon cartoons." Hell a year before this show Thornberrys came out and that was really up there on my radar.
So the person blocked me after that hahaha. I guess she wanted someone to circle jerk about the show and not someones opinion. I just think she shouldn't of removed a harmless comment about the show. She didn't need to agree or disagree. Well I'm off for another bike ride.
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DDay how old are you? I've always wondered. You're very mysterious.......
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I think he's like 30. Around that. I bet.
Oh wait if you look at his profile it says 25. So if that's accurate.. I was kinda close.
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I think he's like 30. Around that. I bet.
Oh wait if you look at his profile it says 25. So if that's accurate.. I was kinda close.
It is sadly (25). I know I act like kid I'm told this constantly.
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420 drink tea with puar every day
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WOAH
so tHATs what they were saying in don miguels niggaz v satan (http://stifu.free.fr/en/rpg95-games-nvs.php).
yowassupmang.wav
I remember like 10 years ago I had Niggaz v. Satan and my dad found it on our computer and I tried to play it off like I didn't know what it was. I was not successful.
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420 drink tea with puar every day
drink tea with a cat named after tea every day.
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[Yamcha's] name is a play on "Yum cha" (literally "drinking tea"), referring to a gathering to drink tea and eat dim sum.
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yeah I run like 1.5-3 miles a time. I just started though like half a year ago.
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yeah I run like 1.5-3 miles a time. I just started though like half a year ago.
That good Wish I could do that stuff.
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That good Wish I could do that stuff.
It's not that hard. I went from never running since high school (which was only half a mile once a week) to running a mile every other day. Just start out slow work your way up to a mile or more.
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that cartillage discussion was funny. cos i have that. i have nothing between the bones anymore in knees due to fluoro-quinolone type of antibiotics + mostly killed tendons/tendonitis. the pain is/was excruriating/handicapping though the enzymed collagen is working so we'll see how much i recover with this. so no more running for me. think twice before taking that type of antibiotics, if u can survive without...! eg: a guy i know got brain damage from the same antibiotics i was taking so welp. like a guy i was talking with daily and afterwards he told me that besides my symptons he's trying to cope with the brain damage.
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It's not that hard. I went from never running since high school (which was only half a mile once a week) to running a mile every other day. Just start out slow work your way up to a mile or more.
Well running was nerve my good attribute and asthma doesn't help.
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Why is it that immediately after washing a dog they immediately find the nearest carcass or poo and roll around in it?
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that cartillage discussion was funny. cos i have that. i have nothing between the bones anymore in knees due to fluoro-quinolone type of antibiotics + mostly killed tendons/tendonitis. the pain is/was excruriating/handicapping though the enzymed collagen is working so we'll see how much i recover with this. so no more running for me. think twice before taking that type of antibiotics, if u can survive without...! eg: a guy i know got brain damage from the same antibiotics i was taking so welp. like a guy i was talking with daily and afterwards he told me that besides my symptons he's trying to cope with the brain damage.
do you ever get the cartilage back or is it gone for good
btw I've been following that diet you sent me/what parts of it I can afford and I'm still having that pain BUT my heartburn is like 75% better and just in time bc the medicine I was taking was giving me dark red circles under my eyes and it was probably about to make me develop idk leukemia or something
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welp! saw a kid drop trow in the middle of a public sidewalk and piss n' shit while their parent stood there texting.
gg china
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welp! saw a kid drop trow in the middle of a public sidewalk and piss n' shit while their parent stood there texting.
gg china
GJ China you desensitized are poor friend.
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do you ever get the cartilage back or is it gone for good
I don't think cartilage grows back, and it has "limited repair capabilities". I know my aunt has no cartilage at all in her knees, and they have these injections they give you (my mom has gotten them too but she has a "little" real cartilage left) but they only last a few months/years.
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do you ever get the cartilage back or is it gone for good
btw I've been following that diet you sent me/what parts of it I can afford and I'm still having that pain BUT my heartburn is like 75% better and just in time bc the medicine I was taking was giving me dark red circles under my eyes and it was probably about to make me develop idk leukemia or something
dunno! we shall see. there's some irritant injenctions in UK that i've read about but not confirmed/read more into anyways.
and holy shit yes!! too bad for pain ofc but that's really positive anyways! what stuff have you've been doing from it?
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pretty much just following the guidelines on avoiding antibiotic meat, and reducing carbs from grains and sugar. it's funny, they tell you to avoid fatty foods if you have GERD just because fatty foods aggravate gall bladder problems, but the gall bladder had nothing to do with my heartburn and is only related to a small number of GERD cases. none of the doctors I've seen have said anything about cutting carbs or sugar either, just "cut fat, alcohol, coffee, and spicy food (also bull, mustard and cayenne are typically good for heartburn)
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finally got some m-audio studio monitors from a goodwill somehow
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finally got some m-audio studio monitors from a goodwill somehow
good job how much where they selling it for.
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15 ducats
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15 ducats
That's a lot.
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i was thinking about this overnight. earl, you are probably doing the right things if your sympton subsided by that much by only LESSENING the input of certain foods, afaik lot of times it's required that you drop the food entirely from diet to get the effects over time. dunno about your money situation but consider dropping grains and sugar altogether... u get the necessary carbohydrates for brain/immunesystem from veggies anyways (and if not then buy berries or a small amount of fruits (yea fruits more restriced than berries)... or just cook like some/a little white rice with your diet every day). sugar was introduced like when america was discovered and it's really just glucose and fructose molecules binded together (and the latter is not healthy in big amounts due to it's many effects to body). it never existed in the first place, your brain works just fine without it and the insulin and cortisol spiking.
anyways, the idea is that you drop those two entirely for 4-6 weeks and at the end of it, sense/snoop around on how you are feeling (in your body, eg fatigue brainfog etc) and then how are your typical GERD and other symptons.
also gulp i've forgotten what you're pain sympton is by now groaaan this embarrasment...
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Fucking Ruby on Rails. I've tried every option in setting it up and it just doesn't work! gonna go learn Django then.
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i was thinking about this overnight. earl, you are probably doing the right things if your sympton subsided by that much by only LESSENING the input of certain foods, afaik lot of times it's required that you drop the food entirely from diet to get the effects over time. dunno about your money situation but consider dropping grains and sugar altogether... u get the necessary carbohydrates for brain/immunesystem from veggies anyways (and if not then buy berries or a small amount of fruits (yea fruits more restriced than berries)... or just cook like some/a little white rice with your diet every day). sugar was introduced like when america was discovered and it's really just glucose and fructose molecules binded together (and the latter is not healthy in big amounts due to it's many effects to body). it never existed in the first place, your brain works just fine without it and the insulin and cortisol spiking.
anyways, the idea is that you drop those two entirely for 4-6 weeks and at the end of it, sense/snoop around on how you are feeling (in your body, eg fatigue brainfog etc) and then how are your typical GERD and other symptons.
also gulp i've forgotten what you're pain sympton is by now groaaan this embarrasment...
embarrASSment bondy....arm joints, neck
oh yeah I've been eating more oily fish too, and more pickled stuff (vinegar and kimchi are good for hb too). so I'm not sure if it's lowering the carbs and sugar that helped, though I know if I eat something really carby I get heartburn. I eat like 1/8 of the carbs and sugar I used to
you probably know how much carbs and sugar the avg american eats. it's tough to remove em entirely just bc of how prevalent they are, and I can't cook for myself every day because of time constraints. once I graduate and get a job on my own I might be able to cut that stuff out entirely. and I'm no longer hopeful anything will get rid of the mindmolt besides something that can eradicate the lime bacteria/biofilm. I see what you're saying tho
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Well, I'm currently attempting to recover the files from my dead HDD. I've been putting it off. Which probably wasn't wise but it looks like its working so I'm not to worried. I'm thinking I should be able to access my files.
However, oddly enough, despite now possibly recovering my XNA code, I'm considering using something different to make my game with. Namely Torque 2D or Game Maker Studio. I used to love Game Maker, but I'm considering learning how to use Torque since it looks like it could be considerably more powerful. What I got done in XNA was largely just the foundation for my game (GUI, camera, sound, level loading etc.) rather than the mechanics themselves. Which can be a tad boring. So I'm tempted to buy torque if I can earn enough for it. I need another 20 bucks though, and I can already afford Game Maker and I have more experience with it.
Perhaps, I can eventually buy both. Though it might be a tad redundant. Then again I could just restrict my use of Game Maker to prototypes and arcade style games.
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i've missed 130 pages of WHATS ON YOUR MIND
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i've missed 130 pages of WHATS ON YOUR MIND
Your life is ruin time to party the rest of your life away.
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Welcome back Jmickle
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All you've missed out on is 100 pages of guys posting their dicks and 30 pages of girls posting their dicks.
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nothing too big then
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did you see my joke
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I got it. Reasonable joke. 5/10.
can someone post that link to the in-browser IRC again? I can't find it.
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i took up 99 pages
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Starting!!! new!!! STUDIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83369.new#new
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Trying to get back on let's plays.
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i saw grimes the other night it was good
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.
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girls were using discreet iphone picture methods to take pictures of me and it must be because I look exactly like a thinner josh groban with a bigger nose and no scarf but I wear weird-colored tshirts like he does. thanks for reading
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josh groban likes his ladies to pop
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I don't understand what that means and I won't understand any explanation or any other post about josh groban, just as a warning
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just to clarify i wasnt referring to you as a "josh groban lady"
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I'm at PAX Prime right now.
Anyone else at PAX Prime?
Come hang out with me at PAX Prime.
PAX PRIME
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pretty much just accepting the fact that this guy (https://twitter.com/dril) is the most talented comedic writer on the planet
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http://cooltweets.heroku.com/dev/dril (http://cooltweets.heroku.com/dev/dril) dril bank
GETS RIGHT UP IN WIFE'S FACE AND DEMANDS "THE BOOK OF ELI" THEMED THANKSGIVING DINNER; MANGLES A THING OF PAPER TOWELS AND HURLS IT AT WALL
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dril is a great man
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girls were using discreet iphone picture methods to take pictures of me and it must be because I look exactly like a thinner josh groban with a bigger nose and no scarf but I wear weird-colored tshirts like he does. thanks for reading
astonished & my respect keeps piling up...
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City of heroes I closing and the company too.
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i chew on my philly cheesesteak as i place a camera under the table to film womens' feet. http://Klout.com - The Standard for Influence.
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I was sitting down, watching some cartoons on my netbook while relaxing on my bed when I felt something crawling on my side, I grabbed it, turned on the light to discover it was a fucking tick.
The only cat of ours that goes outside for any length of time was laying on my bed last night. She been discovered to have brought in a ticks before.
I CAN'T SLEEP NOW. THE OTHER TICKS COULD BE ANYWHERE.
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A tick??? Pfffft I had a live lizard in my shoe the other day and it took like 10 steps for me to realize and frantically get my shoe off to figure out what was wriggling in it.
(it was unharmed and I released it back into its natural habitat aka my yard)
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Haha Belross did you see the new Popcap Pinball FX 2 table?!
PLANTS VS ZOMBIES!!!
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A tick??? Pfffft I had a live lizard in my shoe the other day and it took like 10 steps for me to realize and frantically get my shoe off to figure out what was wriggling in it.
(it was unharmed and I released it back into its natural habitat aka my yard)
I'd rather have a lizard crawling on me. They can't give me lyme or rocky mountain spotted fever.
Plus. Lizards are cool.
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oh yeah lizards are very cool. but having one wriggling under your foot is not at all cool.
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I wish lizards lived here
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We have roaches everywhere in vegas and it's terrible. My apartment is upstairs so I don't get as many bugs as ground-level (regardless of how dirty your house is, seriously, totally clean and non-cluttered and you'll still find a few roaches inside every year). Anyways I'd say at least once a year, without fail, I'll wake up to fucking roach in my bed or crawling on me, ugh it's so fucking disgusting. My place isn't even dirty they just get in and wander around. The last time this happened was like 2 weeks ago, and it was like 2am and I just couldn't fall asleep. I was watching TV in bed and all of a sudden I see this THING fucking fly across my vision and land on my piano keyboard. It was fucking HUGE, definitely 3-incher maybe 3.5, one of those huge ones with big wings, UGH FUCKING GROSS. They also take like, so many hits with a shoe to die. Especially the big ones. So I was hitting it with my shoe, and it's crawling away, and I'm hitting it, and it's still moving, ugh it's so upsetting every time it happens to me. Suddenly everything feels dirty and I don't have any couches right now so I had no choice but to just lay down again and UGH I FUCKING HATE IT. Seriously I've lived in, like 5 or 6 different houses and apartments here in Vegas, and they ALL have this problem. Except for my mom's house, because her boyfriend has a bug-guy come and spray like every 3 weeks because he hates bugs (also north las vegas doesn't have as many it seems).
At one point last year there was this really white-trashy family living below us, and the amount of waterbugs/roaches in the sinks and and shit like quadrupled, my roommate or I would find one (usually coming out of a drain or under the sink or something, which isn't as bad as in your FUCKING BED) like a couple times a week. After they moved out (they got kicked out actually because the cops came and arrested someone living there who the most trashiest of them all) no more roaches! Disgusting people.
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is there no flora that roaches hate? like spiders can't deal with the smell of conkers, and so we've got like five or six in each room and have had no spiders since then (at uni when I first moved in, I regularly found big ones in my room, resulting in screaming like a girl and having to get a housemate to remove it, but I ended up putting like ten of them in my room and it became spider-free!)
Just be thankfull they ain't radroaches!
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oh yeah lizards are very cool. but having one wriggling under your foot is not at all cool.
For both beings, I would imagine.
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is there no flora that roaches hate? like spiders can't deal with the smell of conkers, and so we've got like five or six in each room and have had no spiders since then (at uni when I first moved in, I regularly found big ones in my room, resulting in screaming like a girl and having to get a housemate to remove it, but I ended up putting like ten of them in my room and it became spider-free!)
Just be thankfull they ain't radroaches!
The fuck, spiders can smell?! I didn't think they had noses.
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For both beings, I would imagine.
we were both freaked out about it but i was the only one laughing afterwards. it didn't think it was so funny.
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The fuck, spiders can smell?! I didn't think they had noses.
they have chemical sensors that provide equivalents of taste or smell, but the conkers thing is a myth
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whats a conker? horse chestnut fruits? bc they hurt when they conk you in the head?
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we were both freaked out about it but i was the only one laughing afterwards. it didn't think it was so funny.
Crushed under the foot of the matriarchy.
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quel dommage
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57505283-503544/chuck-norris-offers-dire-warning-for-america/?tag=re1.channel
lol clint eastwood is a douchebag chuck norris is a douchebag
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When is Ted Nugent gonna come out.
-
these are the times that try men's douchebaginess
-
It's hard to take anything seriously anymore. I used to get so worked up about politics, but it's just a farce. It's not even worth getting too involved in. Learn the issues, see where people stand, vote. Don't bother talking to anyone, it'll just piss you off. I'm glad I don't have TV, so I can't watch any of the "debates" or any other stupid bullshit. It's the worst.
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It's hard to take anything seriously anymore. I used to get so worked up about politics, but it's just a farce. It's not even worth getting too involved in. Learn the issues, see where people stand, vote.
Don't bother talking to anyone, it'll just piss you off.
yeah that'll change things... sheesh even dumb liberals have some guilt about wanting to 'do something' accompanying their passivity.
'politics' doesn't necessarily have to be national big-issue debates where you engage in this silly "think the same way I do about things" game. It can take the form of common everyday life struggles: standing up to your boss or landlord, opposition to ecologically harmful development projects, issues surrounding police brutality, and so on. It's in those places where things actually matter, and it requires talking to people/engaging with your community.
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i'm getting the chinese cough.
o god save me from all these smoke-em-anywhere-you-want-$1.50-packs-of-cigarettes
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The new health secretary believes homeopathy workds, despite every single evedence-based test proving it doesn't. The Tories, dragging the UK kicking and screaming back into the 1400's...
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I think you just initiated the Doktor Martini Summoning Ritual
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Wait, Doktor Martini believes in Homeopathy? D:
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remember this http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=69593.0 (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=69593.0)
he might not believe in "homeopathy" per se, not sure. kind of just a joke at his expense. Sorry dok.
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oh. yeah. nutritionists.
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how the "kake" in tastykake is the perfect representation of the phlegmy and dry and slightly sore throat most tastykake products give you. same with butterscotch krimpets. butter-hock-tch k-hock-rimpets, synaesthetic spelling
other symptoms of eating tastykake i've noticed are brain fog/mind molt, headache, feeling frustrated and confused
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other symptoms of eating tastykake i've noticed are brain fog/mind molt, headache, feeling frustrated and confused
gulp, avoid then. the frustration/confusion + possible heacache part i do recognize, it's part of more severe brainfog. the food is def. not good for you.
fyi i'm switched mostly for the paleo (the diet i sent in email), not completely ofc due to finances... but i feel pretty fucking good now, "fingers crossed". this + atlantic raw seasalt... i most of the time avoid brainfog now...! more fish/tuna and no gluten+sugar+milk at all if possible. i still eat the school's salad + maybe their meat foods (and i'm supposed to start eating veggies at home too) and ofc they cause me some of brainfog (facility food garbage w/ gluten and whatever probably) but not too much. also really few gastronomical problems. and something else i've forgot. oh yeah, just more calm feeling overall.
also listnessness/lethargy (threshold to get shit done: ugh that menial task feels such a burden/don't wanna/feels so hard... -> oh, i'll do that now) has improved by tons so gulp i wanna stick to this diet, i want school to succeed.
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kwik q: what year was GW made?
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gulp, avoid then. the frustration/confusion + possible heacache part i do recognize, it's part of more severe brainfog. the food is def. not good for you.
fyi i'm switched mostly for the paleo (the diet i sent in email), not completely ofc due to finances... but i feel pretty fucking good now, "fingers crossed". this + atlantic raw seasalt... i most of the time avoid brainfog now...! more fish/tuna and no gluten+sugar+milk at all if possible. i still eat the school's salad + maybe their meat foods (and i'm supposed to start eating veggies at home too) and ofc they cause me some of brainfog (facility food garbage w/ gluten and whatever probably) but not too much. also really few gastronomical problems. and something else i've forgot. oh yeah, just more calm feeling overall.
also listnessness/lethargy (threshold to get shit done: ugh that menial task feels such a burden/don't wanna/feels so hard... -> oh, i'll do that now) has improved by tons so gulp i wanna stick to this diet, i want school to succeed.
haven't had one in years. they're just one of those awful snacks that people want to keep around out of nostalgia or something
that's pretty cool, and I know what you mean with lethargy I've felt that way forever
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kwik q: what year was GW made?
2001 I think.
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making sure dada is working hard on saltw, glaring at him when he cuts the slack. very important work
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every seems to have been 15 when they registered
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Damn I think I was right around there when I registered too... I remember getting started on RPGMaker in like...1998 or 1999, because Rm2k hadn't been released yet, and I used RM95 with my neighbor. I don't remember exactly any timeframes but Rm2k was released and translated still in 2000 or 2001 I think. I was probably 15 or 16 when I started using GW, but I quickly fell out of making games (at least with rpg maker, I had started learning to program by then) and just enjoyed the community.
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hey. just got back fomr my grandparents' - my gramps had died a week ago.. anyway i was glad to be able to help my Grammy. I'm just haing out now.
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Sorry to hear that Terrorantula. Were you close to your gramps?
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was 14 when i joined. 24 now. Christ, that's depressing.
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i was 15, now 20, will probably still post when i'm 30
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was 14 when i joined. 24 now. Christ, that's depressing.
i was 14 when i joined and 21 now so i'm only a few years away from hitting 10 years here
and yeah that's kinda depressing and idk why
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I joined in 2002. A decade spent on a game making forum when I don't make games.
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I meant 22 in my last post idk if it was a typo or if the last ~2 years of my life were insignificant
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Joined when i was around... 14? I guess. I wasn't around from the beginning with so idk about who were who and what was the past. i can't put my finger who i saw first for example. I have one page saved from way back then for some reason!! which is fucking spooky and i feel somewhat...icky about it. and yeah, im not really that depressed about it, idk why would i (or anyone i guess). not to be assamilating ofc but i'd like to know reasons though
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i think i would've been 14 when i joined, i am 21 now. nearly typoed as joned, i don't think i've ever joned
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Yeah I was about 15 when I joined.
Huh. Read this list http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-stupid-habits-you-develop-growing-up-in-broken-home/ (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-stupid-habits-you-develop-growing-up-in-broken-home/)
and this http://www.counseling.txstate.edu/resources/shoverview/bro/dysfunc.html (http://www.counseling.txstate.edu/resources/shoverview/bro/dysfunc.html)
huh... I knew my family was at least somewhat dysfunctional but I figured I escaped the worst stuff unscathed. But now I am a little less sure. :/
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13 and I'm 25
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I remember only posting in the polls and welcomes/farewells forums because it was a really easy way to get your post count up. Gotta get those pips!
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Was 11 when I first joined and 22 now. That's half my life right there.
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http://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/pear-acid-test
how this
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12 & 24
I was ashamed of my age when I joined because of the "you are 13" joke so I said I was 14 for 3 years.
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coming up on that decade next year for me but i'm not sad and bummed that I still read cool words of people on the internet here or elsewhere
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my teenage years... wasted away arguing why Superman could beat goku...
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Wait, Doktor Martini believes in Homeopathy? D:
No.
Also two days ago I had 550g of carbs from fruit and veggies alone. Today I had 1500 calories before noon from fruit alone <3
Also that link yeah I was dumb back then. That's not even my major.
Also also don't remember when I joined but I'm 25 now.
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I was pretty sure I was 13 when I joined. 20 now. it honestly felt like I found the ultimate website and it alls tarted from googling 'how to make a game' or something and ending up discovering rpg maker. that feeling when you're new to the internet and you're just starting to be technologically literate and that you're about to learn something new and meet people across the globe. that feel. I miss.
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2001 I think.
Very close. GW's first incarnation was late 2000 with GW1. Bartek relanched it in March (I think) 2001 though, which was where it really kind of started. I think it was just Bart, Nate and CyTWO who were involved at that time though.
It started as a splitter site from RPGMaker.net (not related at ALL to the current RPGMaker.net, which was founded when Bartek gave up the domain name [which ][/which]). He founded it due to not getting on with the administration of the original RPGMaker.net - they had a vendetta against Nate for some reason, and Bartek decided to PROTECT HIS FRIEND!!!
We made the BETTER FORUMS in November 2001, which is why there are like tons of registered users on exactly the same date in Nov 2001 XD!
Oh - and 15 when I first joined GW (but 13 when I first joined the NeXus - if anyone remembers that place - the old RPGmaker 95 community). From the NeXus I went to RPGMaker.net, following the development of RPGStudio (Airzone), RPGEngine (Rast), and InfinityRPG (Linguar - at least I think it was called InfinityRPG).
13 then, 27 now. In that entire time I managed to produce ONE game, which took five people to create, and was largely the least skilled person involved in creating said game. Santa Sled Racin' Mark II!!
SUNRISE...SUNSET.
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I meant 22 in my last post idk if it was a typo or if the last ~2 years of my life were insignificant
Do not worry Vell, I lie about my age all the time. To the majority of gay dudes I meet in clubs, I am 21 hahaha.
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There's a guy in my apartment building whose band is opening up for Frankie Muniz's band. I am so going to that concert.
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I had no idea that GW was founded that... late...! Haha. I joined in Feb 2002 so I came in only a few months after the official start of the forums!
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Very close. GW's first incarnation was late 2000 with GW1. Bartek relanched it in March (I think) 2001 though, which was where it really kind of started. I think it was just Bart, Nate and CyTWO who were involved at that time though.
It started as a splitter site from RPGMaker.net (not related at ALL to the current RPGMaker.net, which was founded when Bartek gave up the domain name [which RAST, the owner, had allowed GW to use for a few years - the domain rpgmaker.net actually redirected to gamingw.net after a group who tried to relaunch rpgmaker.net utterly failed by going over the time limit Rast allowed]). He founded it due to not getting on with the administration of the original RPGMaker.net - they had a vendetta against Nate for some reason, and Bartek decided to PROTECT HIS FRIEND!!!
We made the BETTER FORUMS in November 2001, which is why there are like tons of registered users on exactly the same date in Nov 2001 XD!
Oh - and 15 when I first joined GW (but 13 when I first joined the NeXus - if anyone remembers that place - the old RPGmaker 95 community). From the NeXus I went to RPGMaker.net, following the development of RPGStudio (Airzone), RPGEngine (Rast), and InfinityRPG (Linguar - at least I think it was called InfinityRPG).
13 then, 27 now. In that entire time I managed to produce ONE game, which took five people to create, and was largely the least skilled person involved in creating said game. Santa Sled Racin' Mark II!!
SUNRISE...SUNSET.
Well, Arguably better than me. I tried going it alone, mostly used GW as a place to just chat about random shit. I made like 4-5 half done games using GameMaker and they were all pretty awful.
The only not horrible but still unfinished game I made was a bit later and I lost the source code for it at some point. (I seem to have that habit... I seriously need to invest in a backup drive when I have the money.) I have the EXE on my Google Docs. Its a 2D omni-directional shooter.
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I had no idea that GW was founded that... late...! Haha. I joined in Feb 2002 so I came in only a few months after the official start of the forums!
Haha after the official start of the GOOD forums ya. We had some really shitty ones before that, and like a LOT fewer people. Besides Belross, I don't ever remember you NOT being around!
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I think I was 14 when I joined, I'm 23 now. My friend Garrett told me about RM2K in Geometry class and I tried to find it when I got home. I think that was back when you could actually get the program from Don Miguel's website or something like that?? iirc GW never hosted the program itself.
The first thing I ever did on GW was write an article about literary devices in games. I haven't ever been able to find it on the wayback machine. Looking back, with all of the user submitted content, GW was on the cutting-edge of the web 2.0 revolution lol.
EDIT: I found it! http://web.archive.org/web/20040815181155/http://www.gamingw.net/articles/564 I was prepared to be embarrassed, but there's nothing truly mortifying here except for my sorry attempts at humor
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There's a guy in my apartment building whose band is opening up for Frankie Muniz's band. I am so going to that concert.
Frankie Muniz surprises the crowd by covering the entire Barkley OST
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The only not horrible but still unfinished game I made was a bit later and I lost the source code for it at some point. (I seem to have that habit... I seriously need to invest in a backup drive when I have the money.)
Why aren't you using some kind of version control? You can use bitbucket or even github with private repos to keep all your stuff. Don't be an amateur!!
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Frankie Muniz surprises the crowd by covering the entire Barkley OST
God I hope he is somehow aware of all the references made to him in the Barkley OST.
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Why aren't you using some kind of version control? You can use bitbucket or even github with private repos to keep all your stuff. Don't be an amateur!!
Well, back then I WAS an amateur using game maker. The reason I lost my XNA code recently is that I was just not careful enough I suppose. Doesn't matter though I was able to retrieve it from my old drive so shit is secure. I'll have to look into these.
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I bought a SSD and it got here yesterday. I was thinking about the last HDDs I bought, and I always seem to buy hard drives when they're around $100. I bought a 200gig years ago when it was 100, then I bought a 500gig when it was 100, and the last drive I bought was a 1TB for $100. Now this 128gig SSD was also $100 which I think seemed like a fair price and 128GB is not too small at all. Just thought that was kinda interesting.
Also I want to install it and everything but I really don't feel like opening up the comp and fucking with cables and shit. I also kind of know it's going to be dusty as fuck in there, so I might hold off until I can get some compressed air to blow it out. I've been meaning to stop by wal-mart or something to pick up some silicone lubricant for my rubik's cube, so I might just get both.
Yeah I've been rubik's a lot lately. A few months ago I was like "damn I want to learn to solve a rubik's cube for real", so I bought one and practiced a lot. It's actually really easy, you can learn the "beginner's method" in like a day, no joke. There's only like, 6 algorithms you even need to know, I had them memorized after the first day. Now I can solve it in like 1:30 on average pretty consistently, which isn't really a good time at all, but it's kind of the lower limit for the beginner's method. So now i'm moving on to some speedcuber's methods, I think the most popular is the Fridrich method, which is what I'm learning, but it kind of takes a while because you basically have to solve the first 2 layers (first step of Fridrich is called "F2L" which is "first 2 layers") intuitively, there's not really any algorithms to use (there are but it's better to learn how to do it intuitively). I'm getting the hang of it, there's a couple cases where it takes me some thinkin' to figure out a way, but I can almost always eventually solve the first 2 layers.
If you don't know how to do a rubik's basically you form a "cross" on the bottom (this is really easy to do), but normally you'd use a specific algorithm to get the corners in place, then another 2 algorithms to get the edge pieces of the middle layer in place, but with F2L you form the cross, then solve the corners and edge pieces together in one step. It's kind of a mind-fuck just because I'm used to using algos to solve those which is really easy but time consuming, since you have to repeat one algo like 2-6 times per corner, and the edge pieces are an 8-step algo that sometimes need to be repeated twice. I dunno I think rubik's cubes are pretty interesting and fun. Also people who don't know how to solve them think you have to be super smart to do it. When I show people I can solve it in like 1:30-1:50, they are always super impressed even though it's not hard at all, it's just memorized algorithms.
But the Fridrich method is a bit more impressive, just because you can eventually get sub-1 minute times pretty easily. The hard part of the Fridrich is the last 2 steps, which are more algorithm memorization but there are like 53 unique cases that all have an algo for them. Crazy. I don't know if I'll ever go that far but, maybe. I mean I'm sure someday I will. But ANYWAY it's just weird because at the moment I'm only focusing on doing F2L, and it takes me a few minutes, sometimes 5-10 to do it and considering I'm used to solving a cube in 1:30 it's like "damn..." but, it's quite a bit more fun thinking about it then just rote memorization of algorithms.
I did not intent to write so much about rubik's cubes.
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http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2932367/1000_x_1000_x_1000_rubiks_cube/
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rocky raccoon checked into his room
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http://astr73.narod.ru/MC7D/MC7D.html
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nvm I posted a link to a youtube of "penn & teller answer reddit questions" but then I spotted reddit level shit in the comments section so nvm
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every day that passes I hate reddit more and more. the only subs worth going to are like, /r/askscience because it's so heavily moderated that there's no joke posts and only real scientific answers with citations are allowed. it's the worst.
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lol I'm trying to figure out now whether presidents are inherently weird-looking or if they're just so UBIQUITOUS. Like Obama ended up being president because he's actually a black person you can see being in a politcal cartoon. Like you're not exaggerating black people in general you're clearly exaggerating Obama. Please someone agree with me
http://jlaverycartoons.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/kerryendorsement-copy.jpg (http://jlaverycartoons.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/kerryendorsement-copy.jpg) aaaa
I'm trying to figure out how many caricatures of black people I've seen before and the implications of this. I think Oprah I've seen. I mean like neutral party sort of caricatures not meant to offend
like I think it's racist if you can't think of a good amount of weird-looking black people (as in like that specific person, person is weird-looking not because they're black people though) also not celebrities
as for Asians Shigeru Miyamoto works but that's quasi-celebrity
oh yeah this post made me think of Ghana posters and how off the people looked and sort of like the same dude and is it like does it reflect how white person looks to someone from Ghana/never actually met a white person
related http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/400-8/photos/496988.jpg
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I think I was thinking of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect
but yeah I'm taking it a step further and saying that more people of your group are not only likely to be more easily recognized but distinct enough to say hey that person looks weird
lol depressing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
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just self-diagnosed cradle cap
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What an educational picture that cross-race page has. Thanks wikipedia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/US_Army_How_To_Spot_A_Jap.png
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ahahaha
guest starring tintin btw
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lol depressing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
Thank you for this. Now I never have to visit reddit, since I already know just about everything to expect from that site.
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lol I looked at Wikipedia : List of Japanese Prime Ministers and they're generally pretty distinctly weird-looking too and obviously they're not ubiquitous/omnipresent like American presidents. Maybe it's some universal sort of thing about leaders. Must do more research
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect
I liked this one.
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AGH. WTF is up with arachnids and my god damned bed? I just put my hand on my leg to feel a hairy thick legged spider on it in the pitch black of my room. I instantly crushed it with my fingers (which I only figured out after searching around and later finding its curled up body under earlier discarded pants, apparently I only mortally wounded it because it couldn't have landed there)
FUCK. I can't sleep again.
EDIT: at least I learned something: Spiders are cold to the touch. I half wondered if it was in my imagination and it was just some leaf stuck to my leg that I crushed because of the cool touch.
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9tckavU1l1rfawh1o4_1280.jpeg)
Wow that's some good cosplaying there
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4492/vlc2012091200593651.png)
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Jamie started a new topic (http://www.saltw.net/index.php?topic=83390.new) so this one's OVER.