Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Liberty on April 26, 2012, 09:04:30 am
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Petition for Signatures (http://www.change.org/petitions/rm2k3-in-english)
Official Topic (http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/1605-if-we-were-to-release-rpg-maker-2003-in-english-would-you-buy-it/)
This suggestion was thrown into the table and so we have to ask, if we were to release RPG Maker 2003 in English would you buy it?
Vote and post your suggestions here~
Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker.
Well, what can I say? There's a possibilty that Degica/EB! will look into creating an official English version of RM2K3 if there's enough demand for it. What do you all think? Should we embrace this momentous occasion that would allow us to use 2K3 legally? Would you pay for such a thing? Let your voices be heard!
And sign the damn petition! <3
Also, please spread the word around to any and all sites you frequent where people use the program. The more people made aware, the better!
This was requested by a fan - namely me - to a staff member, so no hatin' on Degica. Got an issue, take it up with me and I'll show you my reasoning. Since some people are asshats. (Not necessarily anyone here, but there've been some people that are being a bit douchey about the idea.)
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The only thing I could think of is..why?
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Not just why, but why now? It seems awfully late in the game to try to get anyone to pay for rm2k3. It's nearly 10 years old now, I'm pretty sure everyone that wants it has it and very few people care enough about the legal aspect to shell out money for it.
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Almost forgot about that site RMTutorials, another trip down at memory-lane
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I guess it's the last one that looks like a legit 16 bit RPG game. The ruby based ones just don't have the same atmosphere.
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It's mostly because it was requested. So it was thrown into the table and so the staff just asked if anyone still wanted it legally.
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Not just why, but why now? It seems awfully late in the game to try to get anyone to pay for rm2k3. It's nearly 10 years old now, I'm pretty sure everyone that wants it has it and very few people care enough about the legal aspect to shell out money for it.
because games über alles
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Why is right I will be honest I think Rpg Maker VX Ace is 10x better. (not to be confused with Rpg Maker VX was like the ultimate down graded it was like taking billion steps back) Ace seem to take everything that made the RPG maker good. and slammed it with the ruby system and If there was issues you could modify the preset code or add if you are competent (sadly I'm not)
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What's the difference between VX and ACE I can't find a source for complete comparison.
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VXAce has Ruby 1.9.2 if I'm not wrong. and RGSS3 which uses a completely different structure.
They also brought back more tilesets than just using 1 for the entire game.
They also added a new feature called traits/features in EN. This is going to be a long talk so no.
They also added Regions which can be used for so many things, they're like ID numbers painted on the map and you can do whatever the hell you want with them.
Custom damage formulas. Enough said.
They added "TP" which acts like as another cost for skill that can be accumulated to however style you want. By default using a skill. It's like some limit break bar if you want an example.
Unique Skillsets like what it was in Rm2k3. You can also make skills use common events now too.
Note tags all around the place
etc.etc.etc.
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It's mostly because it was requested. So it was thrown into the table and so the staff just asked if anyone still wanted it legally.
I wonder how many of those requests will translate into sales. Tons of people want things until it comes time to pay for them.
Doesn't rm2k3 have horrible compatibility problems with current OSes, or did I get that wrong?
I've got nothing against rm2k3 it just seems weird to localize a 10 year old piece of software everyone already has.
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come on vellfire get into the spirit of guiltforge
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So Mr. "Took Forever To Buy Skate 3" are you telling me you're shelling out cash for rm2k3?
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I wonder how many of those requests will translate into sales. Tons of people want things until it comes time to pay for them.
Doesn't rm2k3 have horrible compatibility problems with current OSes, or did I get that wrong?
I've got nothing against rm2k3 it just seems weird to localize a 10 year old piece of software everyone already has.
That's why they added voting. To see if people are going to buy it and why 1000 is a minimum. And yeah, it varies from OS to OS like I can play rm2k3 games fine with windows 7 but my friend in vista can't etc. That's why I didn't even bother to suggest it until I was...persuaded (trust me there were lots of arguing as to why I don't think EB/Degica would publish it)...about it in IRC.
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Also, if you're wondering why you should bother...
Why wouldn't you? It helps EB! and Degica to be inspired to make more of an effort to listen to the fans.
You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.
Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?
This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program? Wanna be part of RM history? Vote yes~
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Are these actual boxed copies of the software? People on that forum are referring to it as a collectors item which is understandable unless it's digital distribution only.
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It might be, we don't know yet but that is the general idea (collector's item, nostalgia, or whatever you want to look at it as).
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What's the difference between VX and ACE I can't find a source for complete comparison.
VXAce has Ruby 1.9.2 if I'm not wrong. and RGSS3 which uses a completely different structure.
They also brought back more tilesets than just using 1 for the entire game.
They also added a new feature called traits/features in EN. This is going to be a long talk so no.
They also added Regions which can be used for so many things, they're like ID numbers painted on the map and you can do whatever the hell you want with them.
Custom damage formulas. Enough said.
They added "TP" which acts like as another cost for skill that can be accumulated to however style you want. By default using a skill. It's like some limit break bar if you want an example.
Unique Skillsets like what it was in Rm2k3. You can also make skills use common events now too.
Note tags all around the place
etc.etc.etc.
It was also a pain to use and to use custom tile sets you had to do some funky stuff to get them to work. Original VX was so nurfed it should be given away for free... it was poorly made. VX < XP < VX Ace
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Are the character sprites still limited to that boxy style?
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There was no character limit in rmxp-> ace size wise O_o
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I mean the size of the sprite. I remember when I tried VX that all characters are supposed to be at a size of 64x64 or something like that. I hate that squarey look.
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The size of the sprite is not limited. You can make it any size you want just add in a $inthefilename.
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Could I add you as a developer as well so you could edit the project?
I'll upload the latest version
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Cost is confirmed to be $20 if this happens. Nice and cheap.
FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago?
The simple answer? Because the community itself shot down any attempts EB tried at legalizing the product. After XP's release no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them (and Agetec - the publishers of the console RMs who showed EB! that there was a market for RM product here) that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.
Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:
I'm going to use variables because I have no idea exact costs. Let's say we have Project 1 and Project 2.
Project 1 costs x to produce, and brings in 10x
Project 2 costs 2x to produce, and brings in 10x
If we do just Project 1 we make 9x, if we do just Project 2 we make 8x. If we did BOTH projects, we could make 17x.
Hence why if something sounds like we will make x's we will find the money to do it. Also, translating 2k3 if it does work out, could make a good deal of money as it has low costs comparatively to bring over, that could be used to FUND other projects.
In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?
Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.
Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.
Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.
Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.
Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.
How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~
Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;.;) because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.
But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)
Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?
Any other questions? Just ask.
Also? This.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/rpgmaker.net/media/content/users/21676/locker/Legal_rm2k3_Flux.bmp)
Thanks to Iddalai for making it.
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nice flowchart
but all paths should lead to "WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?"
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As much as I like this idea, it's really 7 years too late. I just don't think there's enough support for it, at least here.
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why would i want to support them.
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Is there any reason why someone would rather pay to use rm2k3 instead of one of the newer ones? I prefer the 16-bit style graphics of rm2k3 over the higher resolution graphics in the new ones, but other than that I would imagine they're a lot more robust, right? But I'm not familiar with the new ones at all so I dunno. what's the deal yo. just curious.
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The "it's bugged" line of the flow chart makes no sense. It's saying "It's got bugs, but I still use it despite the bugs, therefore I should pay them to thank them for their buggy software"? How does that make any sense? Using buggy software for free is a lot different than paying a company for it. The "did you" bit doesn't make much sense either--I used rm2k3 for free when I was like 14 therefore I should support them now? Why?
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I think their heart is is the right place but I can't imagine this helping Enterbrain out that much. Most people that this is target towards will have already had the free pirate version or would rather buy the latest version. There will definitely be people that will buy it, but I can't imagine there being enough people for Enterbrain to profit from it. This probably is not going to be worth the time, money, and effort to get it translated and marketed.
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Is there any reason why someone would rather pay to use rm2k3 instead of one of the newer ones? I prefer the 16-bit style graphics of rm2k3 over the higher resolution graphics in the new ones, but other than that I would imagine they're a lot more robust, right? But I'm not familiar with the new ones at all so I dunno. what's the deal yo. just curious.
Some say RPG Maker XP dodn't feel right.
VX was dumb-ed down to the point of why do I wanted to use it.
VX Ace fixed everything that made it bad and the scripting you can do with is up there on a high customization level and a lot of retuning Events . Only flaw I can see is if you where making a big game it could become bit too much to find Weapons and items so a finding feature/sorting for wepons and ect would help it.