Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: jamie on November 26, 2012, 08:48:24 pm
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I've said this before. I'm also not in a totally perfect state of mind right now, but I don't think I will be for a long time. I'm sober, though. Eight days at the moment and I'm mentioning that so that I have publicly stated somewhere that this is how long and so if I ever felt the need to fuck my life up, I could remember this here as one of the countless reasons not to.
If you think the idea of me making this topic is extremely self-indulgent, then okay, I don't necessarily expect anybody to care about this. I'm making it kind of for me but also as a way to make a widespread apology for my behaviour for many years now. I've lashed out at a lot of you over the years for no reason, and no doubt I'd be better friends with you all otherwise. I've also just said some repugnant shit which has absolutely no place in my sober mind. Anyone who has had extensive contact with me has most likely taken some shit from me and I would like to apologise to you all personally but I'll start here.
A lot of things are happening in my life right now, but I'm going to keep this to the drinking thing. I've felt for a long time like I ruined a good chance I had around here to get involved with people I really like. Some of the people here are the few people I really, really like that I have ever met in the world. It is hard to meet people you really like, beyond a level of just company or even relationship stuff. Real stinking compadres around here, I'm saying. In the back of my head when I hear people talk about Barkley 2 I think 'that could've been you, you motherfucker!', as in, I could be involved in the creation of that game if I hadn't taken the isolated, irresponsible and just plain empty path in my life that I've taken this far. So I've lost a lot. Not everything, and I'm lucky because I am still young and I go to AA meetings and hear the entire lifetimes people have ruined. I don't want it to be me because I actually want things out of life, and I know better what they are than most people my age do, I think, and there is no reason other than drinking that I won't be a success. So it's a chemical addiction and allergy that I have let taken control of me and I want it to stop.
So I'm making it stop. I have made it stop. I just need to keep that going, now, and my life will just improve by itself. I can't sit in the house all fucking day doing nothing when I'm sober, I can't lose spans of 5 days at a time where I do nothing but sit drunk in front of a computer screen or, if I'm lucky, go to a party where people don't know I'm a drunk and promptly teach them. It's death!!! Also my symptoms are progressing - half waking nightmares, shakes, puking, paranoia, 3 day hangovers - all that bad crap.
So I'm making this topic to announce that I have quit drinking, which also helps make it more real to me. I have no social life, really, due to my drinking. I'd be doing the same thing with my real life friends, if I had any. I've told the few people who care about me, and yeah I doubt they are taking it too seriously at the moment, since I have quit before and for much longer than 8 days. There was always the thought I'd eventually go back to drinking before, though, and at least right now I see absolutely no reason for me ever to pick up another drink. I hope that 6 months down the line when I am still sober I will have more credibility and I'll be able to show off the good side of me, which exists (I can be cool!), and let this motherfucker who has wrecked my life fade slowly into dead memory.
Also anyone, feel free to talk about your own stuff in this topic. I'm probably going to quickly drift into HOW DO YOU LIVE LIFE kind of stuff anyway. I even started writing a journal in a fucking notebook. I just hope there is enough left for some of you guys to accept my apology and be prepared to see me differently than a drunk fuck-up who is occasionally a complete asshole. It isn't who I want to be, and it isn't who I am at this moment.
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You got really far the last time you stopped drinking, I'm positive you can pull it off again. Really glad you're going to try. You know the deal, I'm behind you all the way. My only question is: are you going to do this cold turkey? I know you're already going to AA meetings, but keep in mind that there's really nothing wrong with help beyond that as well, like we talked before about getting on an anti-drinking drug. Which, although a really heavy option, is still something to keep in mind considering that some pretty serious side effects are setting in.
And if you have a relapse, don't worry, it's OK to tell us. We're not going to give you a lot of unnecessary crap for it. It's an addiction, it isn't rational. But it's better to post about it, if it does happen.
Anyway, I don't know what else to say except that I'm rooting for you. I know you can beat this, go for it.
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i think i speak for quite a few of us when i say that we've been genuinely worried about you for some time now. and it was shitty watching this all happen because we were more or less completely powerless outside of just giving you shit on irc. i have an older brother who's a hardcore junkie who completely destroyed himself, so i know quite a few of the nasty details that severe addicts go through. i'm glad to see you making a serious effort at improving your life. i really hope you succeed.
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Thanks dada. As for the cold turkey question, I'm kind of surprised because I thought it'd be pretty obvious I am not the kind of person who can just have a drink of alcohol. Anything other than completely quitting would be a total lie and the weakest shit I could deliver at this point in my life. I think I will get into some additional things other than AA meetings (they are tiring, and I can't engage with some of it, but I tend to pick up on one or two useful things per meeting), very soon. The most important thing for me is to keep busy, though. Lying around breeds this stuff.
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Yeah, thanks konix. I know I've occasionally worried people as well, which honestly feels like a compliment as twisted as that is. It definitely isn't how I am going to engage with people from now on but that your reaction wasn't just 'that fucker is fucked up again, what a dipshit' (i mean it was probably that, too) helps me feel like I have something decent left to begin rebuilding from. I'm really trying.
I mean just this week I've gotten a possible video comission, 3 job interviews and I went to a lecture about chinese economics I had no reason to go to. That's about 3000% more than I've done in the past 4 months so it's a good start. I'd like to learn how to meet, get to know and care about people next.
oh yeah and nasty details? how about the onset of chronic diarrhea. i got a whiff of that once or twice. i heard from some guys who didn't stop until their 40's that it gets REAL raw. some crazy stuff happens to you.
I dunno if anyone else around here has anything to say about this kind of problem, but like I said, feel free.
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you should definitely try to make friends at AA if you can. having friends who don't drink at all would probably help you transition until you're finally comfortable with yourself again.
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yeah, i'm trying to find meetings with a few more young people at them. i mean i'm not averse to talking to older people but in terms of actually hanging out with people i'd like to see if i could find some more young people. there is a tendency for the older folk, like 50 or older, to approach you and start lecturing you about all this stuff to do with AA and what alcoholism is and I know some people might benefit from that but it's honestly just kinda boring cos all kinds of people go to these meetings and some of them aren't necessarily going to be able to talk to me.
but yeah, if there is a place where people are approachable, it is AA. they'll do all kinds of stuff for you at the slightest suggestion because it is part of what they believe recovery means, you've got to reach out like that. i think i believe that too, actually.
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Yeah, I mean, there's no way to do this except for completely quitting, but I was wondering if you were going to try and use help other than AA. I have no idea what their meetings are like obviously, but I imagine that after some time it becomes really tiring and predictable. You might just get really bored with it.
And yeah I think it's a great idea if you keep yourself busy. Do stuff. It helps. I'm not exactly the most jovial/happy person in the world but work helps. It keeps you busy, it at least gives you the sense that you've earned your dinner at the end of the day. You're a super creative guy, you can build great stuff if you put your mind to it.
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who is jamie? The only jamie >I know is jamicus, and he used to have drinking problems
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Yeah he's Jamicus aka The_Real_Jamicus. He's the Real The_Real_Jamicus. Also known as J_boy.
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i deny it, there is a phony jamicus at work here
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Good for you jamie, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you'll be successful.
I managed to stop smoking last year, and lasted about a year and half without taking even a single drag. I did really well but a few months ago I started smoking lightly again, which is really stupid considering I have pretty bad asthma. But I'm cutting down again, and I'll usually go a week each month without smoking, but I do still end up having a few cigs. I hate it, and I'm going to try and stop completely again soon.
Anyway my point is that quitting drugs/alcohol/ADDICTIONS is fucking hard and it never stops being hard, it's a constant struggle. So I hope you can be strong, because dying of liver failure is NOT FUN. GOOD LUCK AGAIN.
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I wish you the best of luck Jamie. Can I ask how your drinking started becoming a problem?
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I wish you the best of luck Jamie. Can I ask how your drinking started becoming a problem?
I started drinking when I was 12 or 13, not sure exactly when, but I remember distinctly loving it from the beginning. Within a couple of years I had a reputation. Even people at my high school thought I was an alcoholic by the time I was 16-17 and I do too. It kind of runs in my family - neither of my parents have it, but their parents did. My parents are great and hardly drink. I haven't had a difficult life or anything, so my only explanation is that it is an abnormality in my brain and body which was probably with me from when I was born. It wouldn't have mattered when I started, I would have had a problem with it eventually. So the only thing to do is deal with it head on!
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i really hope for the best, jamie. good luck.
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this is awesome but it'd be best to have supervision! not just for support but i mean like, alcohol withdrawal is deadly.
i am not a medical doctor
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Good to hear man. I am also rooting for you!
I'll admit its alien to me though, I've never even really been buzzed in my life so its hard to imagine wanting it so badly. I've drank alcoholic beverages but never enough to feel the effects really. Being a relatively large guy with blue eyes (genetic factor tied to increased alcohol resistance) probably contributes to not feeling any of the alcohols effects...
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My eyes are blue but it didn't save me...
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Well, my point is that while I sympathize with with your issues with addiction (I have relatives with various addiction issues) I merely admit that its directly alien to ME. The worst addiction I've suffered is caffeine (still am technically, worst of caffeine withdrawal is unconsciously clenching your jaw at night and general malaise for a day or so, so obviously does not compare).
I wish you the best!
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People always say they have a strong resistance to stuff and don't feel the effects, but the case is usually that they haven't actually ever had a large amount. Blue eyes and being a big guy means nothing once you've drank enough.
Does reading about the negative effects ever help Jamie? Like if you read about all the bad stuff it does to your body, that could put you off and help you stay motivated?
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Well, yeah, I know. That's what I said, I've never had a large amount in the first place. I was just coupling the other elements to further explain.
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Aight, Jamie. I guess you're back at Scotland? Last thing I knew about you was maybe Australia, I think.
I've been in Scotland, did a roadtrip with GaZZwa and another buddy, from england, all the way up to Edinburgh, going past several places.
What I could tell is that other than Edinburgh and Glasgow, the place is pretty small and gloom (well we went for the new year, winter n shit).
Do you live in one of those typical scottish small towns, or are you in Glagow/Edinburgh?
Thing is, I wonder what kind of environment you live in. Do you have a good relation with your parents, in the sense of whether they are supportive about your issue?
Your lack of social life is not good. Most of us know what a lack of social life is like. It's not good for our mental health, you need people that can back you up, whether they are friends or family. Never underplay the importance of family though. (I know British people are quite non-attached from their parents, not like over here were we really like to have a good bond with our parents. Like, my dad is like a good friend for me, and he helps me with my own doubts.)
I think that you should just start getting more involved with activities. Anything that could be of interest, or maybe not of interest but know that does you good, like going to the gym. I dunno, here are some ideas: any sport, carpentry workshops, painting/sculpting workshops, trekking groups, mountain bike groups, diving groups, etc
The idea is to keep yourself busy with new stuff, filling you with enthusiasm, sense of purpose, thirst for challenges, and allows you to interact with people.
The best way to forget alcohol is by switching your interest into something else. And self-control. And will to find something else out there.
Also try and revisit old friends, see what they are up to. I've been away for 9 months and when I came back home, I realized I've lost many of my friends. But I was determined to change things, so I got back in contact with some friends, and got in contact with a guy I knew but weren't entirely friends and we decided to get together to jam. So I started getting to know his band of friends, going out with them every weekend, until slowly they welcomed me in the crew. That was thanks to music.
You need to meet people, and get busy with other things. That's my suggestion.
ALSO
Are you still making those youtube videos? I really enjoyed your shit, even though I found it always hard to understand your accent, but I have bad hearing anyway. Hope you're still coming up with new videos, because you're definitively brilliant.
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I've got a pretty close homie who's also dealing with alcohol abuse right now and he's waffling over whether or not he should get sober. I don't know much about addiction other than there's very few instances of 'middle ground' and to avoid slipping you often need to go all the way with sobriety which ain't easy so good luck bud, take care of yourself.
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if you get lows and feel like taking alcohol again, i suggest you just buy 5-htp from your regular vitamin store and take 100mg a day for some weeks. it's just a precursor amino acid to seretonin so if you get lowish on it (seretonin), your body balances it out by making more from 5-htp. it might help you while you're phasing things out, you won't develope an addiction to it naturally and i doubt you'd need it longer than weeks. i hope you take this seriously if things get rough.
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Good on you Jamie and good luck. I have to say, It really pisses me of when people act like breaking an adiction is a really easy thing, or that they cant' understand how it can be hard. What they don't realise is that humans are built with addictions in mind (survival mechanism to make a person want to do somthing and so will try there best to get at it eg food of a particular plant) and that they themselves are probably adicted to somthing, TV, the internet, caffine, etc, fucking idiots.
Any way, one peice of advice I was told by some one, If you find yourself feeling REALLY I'll then as counter-intuative as it sounds, have a SMALL sip of alchahol, you may not need it but your brain think's it does and will start shutting down so if you give it a tiny bit it should calm down, but I stress only when It's REALLY bad and only a small amount.
Good luck jamie
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Best of luck to you jamie. I wish I could offer you some sage advice on how to battle your addiction and lead a happy and successful life but I'm just a big ol' thumb sucking dummy so the best I can do is offer you some words of encouragement. You can do it bud! While you're out there quitting drinking, I'll be over here quitting cigarettes as a sign of solidarity. I've been thinking about quitting lately but haven't seriously attempted it, but if you're gonna quit I'm gonna quit. I hope that's at least somewhat encouraging!
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jamie I am proud of you man. You're a great guy and certainly deserve some happiness and shit.
KEEP ON TRUCKING buddy!
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Any way, one peice of advice I was told by some one, If you find yourself feeling REALLY I'll then as counter-intuative as it sounds, have a SMALL sip of alcohol, you may not need it but your brain think's it does and will start shutting down so if you give it a tiny bit it should calm down, but I stress only when It's REALLY bad and only a small amount.
I dont think telling an addict to try a small amount of what they are addicted to is good advice. Their whole problem is struggling to have a moderate amount, that's why people have to go cold turkey.
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Yeah, hadn't seen that post before but like Afura says it's bad advice, the overwhelming majority of people who recover from alcohol abuse can never drink socially. Drinking even very small amounts can lead to a relapse. When you stop drinking, you stop drinking, period. I'm not aware of a scientific argument that says otherwise.
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You miss understand me, He was telling me a story about this guy who went to a doctor becuase he was feeling REALLY sick, he told the doctor he was a heavy drinker and that he just stopped cold turkey and the doctor told him to buy a drink, his body was litterly killing it self becuase it thought it needed alcohol to survive and so was basicly shutting down, best thing to do in that sitution was to get a drink, not a lot but somthing to stop his body from killing it's self.
True story.
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You miss understand me, He was telling me a story about this guy who went to a doctor becuase he was feeling REALLY sick, he told the doctor he was a heavy drinker and that he just stopped cold turkey and the doctor told him to buy a drink, his body was litterly killing it self becuase it thought it needed alcohol to survive and so was basicly shutting down, best thing to do in that sitution was to get a drink, not a lot but somthing to stop his body from killing it's self.
True story.
I work in an emergency room and we see alcohol withdraw patients all the time who either get outpatient care or admission to local rehab facilities and absolutely under no circumstances has any actual healthcare professional recommends this, especially as alcohol withdraw treatment methods are pretty well established and medications readily available to treat symptoms.
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"So the heroin withdrawls are making you sick? Here, shoot up this ten sack, you'll feel much better."
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I work in an emergency room and we see alcohol withdraw patients all the time who either get outpatient care or admission to local rehab facilities and absolutely under no circumstances has any actual healthcare professional recommends this, especially as alcohol withdraw treatment methods are pretty well established and medications readily available to treat symptoms.
Fair enough, bad advice retracted.
"So the heroin withdrawls are making you sick? Here, shoot up this ten sack, you'll feel much better."
Why do you have to be such a lemon? I'm offering bad advice that I was told by some one else, I was corrected ( by atari), fair enough but that's no reason to be a dick when I'm simply trying to offer advice (good or bad) if I'm wrong, then say so and why (like atari). Second of all, don't take what I said out of conext, the "equivlent" would be giving the person enough to alliavate simptons but no where near enough to get a high, but whatever, stupid idea either way as pointed out by atari.
I'm not going to get into an argument over a stupid thing and de-rail the topic just so we can argue about a point that was already made.
About that eye thing, I guess it explains why I can drink quite (the few times I have done) a bit and not feel much beyond slight tipsyness (if anything), that said I pretty much don't bother with alcohol as I find the taste of alcohol to be pretty horrible, I don't get drunk easily (costs to much) and I don't like feeling drunk the few times I have been.
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No offense, but you sound a little naïve about alcohol. Having blue eyes would have very little effect as to your tolerance once you’ve consumed a certain amount. I know plenty of people that get drunk easily and have blue eyes and as Jamie said blue eyes hasn’t saved him. It’s like people that say marijuana doesn’t work on them, despite the fact that they’ve only tried it once and probably had a tiny amount. This stuff works on everyone. There’s no one that's immune.
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http://www.cracked.com/article_19194_6-intimate-details-you-can-tell-just-by-looking-at-someone_p2.html
Despite the site they have links to back it up.
IT doesn't give you complete immunity, just makes you more tolerant, somthing I didn't bother adding because, yah know I thought it went without saying but apparantly not.
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Anyone can get drunk relatively easily though. You and Warpped are acting like you've tried and failed because THE BLUE EYES KICKED IN. It's really not that hard once you've consumed enough.
EDIT: Anyway this conversation probably isn't appropriate for a topic about Jamie's well being.
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Anyone can get drunk though. You and Warpped are acting like you've tried and failed because THE BLUE EYES KICKED IN.
I'm acting Like I tried and didn't fail becuase MAYBE PERHAPS the fact that I have light coloured eyes which has been linked to high alcohol tollerance means that it takes a bit more to get me really drunk. If you read (which I'm sure you can) what I wrote you will notice I used the word "GUESS" which is used to indicate that PERHAPS this could explain my somewhat higher alcohl tollerance but I'm not entirly sure.
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You seem weirdly defensive about this whole thing.
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I'm getting irritated that people are mis-reading what I'm saying or are taking it out of context.
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argumentw.net :P
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Anyway this conversation probably isn't appropriate for a topic about Jamie's well being.
It's okay, talk about whatever you want. In terms of shitty advice like 'yeah jamie but can't you just try to drink less?', well, I've been round this shit enough that I'm pretty much immune to that kind of thing. Some people don't really understand and just want to have something to say, and that's okay. I guess I'll just ignore that kind of thing though. I said talk about whatever relating to this topic of you know, substance abuse and recovery and all related things, so feel free to gab.
As for me, 9 days. Kept on my feet most of the day, had two job interviews. Hopefully I'll be getting some work soon. The biggest thing is that, in terms of people, there isn't really anything in life besides my immediate family. There is just a big space where I should have friends, and I'm not complaining exactly but it is probably what is making this so difficult right now. I just wander around, trying to find ways into things. It doesn't help I went through a break-up a few months ago which is only now, as I awake sober, hitting me. She was kind of my last real connection beyond my parents and brothers. So when I'm not cocooning up at home, I'm left to my thoughts waaay too long.
It'll change. I believe that, so I'm not going to let this be any kind of reason to slip up or anything. I'm not a bad person and even bad people have friends. I'm not shy, either. It's hard to find people I connect with, though. So, in a way, though, this is kind of good. I have pretty much no reason to do this other than to improve my quality of life. Nobody else is around, nobody really gives a shit what I do on a day to day basis (except, again, my mum but I've been lucky with that), so all that is left is what I want to do. It's gonna take a lot of thinking about!
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do something like start running or get into an exercise routine, a couple friends of mine who've become sober said that it was pretty vital in their recovery. the reason it works so well is because drinking really fucks you up physically and throws you off your game when you're in the routine long enough for it to become a habit/part of what you do with your week. its a good way to give yourself a reason to not drink while working toward a healthy and concrete goal and you're less likely to fall off the wagon as you become more invested in it.
its as easy as just going outside and running until you get tired, time yourself and then try to further next time. if you've got gym access, lift weights starting light and add ~5 kg's each time you go until ur maxin' out with the bros. it also helps if you do stuff like that with incremental improvements and keep a log on paper to see your progress.
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you know i've got your back pal
if you make it to 60 days i'll come up and visit you and we'll celebrate with some diet pepsis and some games
once you've got everything sorted out and you're back on the straight
i know you can do this!!
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BECOME THE MAN YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO BE, JUST LIKE I HAVE
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good luck jamie. idk if what I said about running and joints mattered at all, but in the end it's better to run. people run marathons for cripes sake. swimming, climbing and cycling are options too, but if you're gonna push yourself ya better swim/climb somewhere safe!! good luck jim & jimbo.
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you know i've got your back pal
if you make it to 60 days i'll come up and visit you and we'll celebrate with some diet pepsis and some games
once you've got everything sorted out and you're back on the straight
i know you can do this!!
i'm gonna remember this one, sucker
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9 days is a long time man. Great work and good luck. I watched my mom go through this and I know how tough it is, but it sounds like you have some friends here that will always be around to talk. I think that's what will help the most: support
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Wow, Good luck man. It seems like it's definitely time to put that milk in the fridge.*
Now that I think about it, I don't think I know anyone who has a real problem with alcoholism.
*regardless of the hundreds of times you've dressed me down for being an idiot over the years, when I think of you I think, instead, of this video and how many times it made me laugh and how many times I tried to show it to friends who did not think it was funny. Occasionally, when I'm walking to the corner store or something, I'll just start saying "puh tha mulk inna frudge" over and over again.
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Wow there's a lot of older members popping up this past month.
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Holy crap it's GirlBones! Welcome back!
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thanks for showing up to say good luck and everything, guys. it does help, knowing that my efforts at least register. it gives me a sense of context for why i want to do this - i can check this topic just to look at the nice replies if i am begin to teeter a bit
Tonight I went to another meeting and I joined that group, cos I like the place it is in and the crowd is pretty varied. So I might become a regular at that one, showing up to set up the chairs and serve tea/coffee etc before it starts. Could be nice. 10 days. It's actually not been a bad day, so it is a start at least.
As for the meetings getting repetitive - I mean, yeah, some of the stuff is a bit dogmatic and at least for now, I don't connect with any of it at all (can't do spirituality/god), but people mostly just talk about their lives and for the most part I recognise bits and pieces in everyone. It helps, I guess.
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I'm agnostic, but I follow Buddhism as much as I can. For us westerners it's a philosophy of life (for tibetans and further east, a religion), it doesn't have a god, just a teacher that teaches us the way to overcome suffering (the Buddha).
I have several books about buddhism and the dalai lama, and reading them gives me a lot of serenity and peace of mind, and stability and clarity about what things in life are important. Sometimes it's not that buddhism teaches me things, it has many concepts that I know myself already, but to hear/read these concepts being told by someone else is on one hand affirming and strengthening one's own considerations about many thing, and on the other, revealing new details.
This is just a suggestion, as I see you brought up the spirituality word.
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Out of all the relgions, I'd have to say that buddism is the most... realistic? I mean forexample science has uncovered that reality might be a hologram or simulation and buudism basicly says the world that we currently inhabit isn't real.
What I'm trying to say is that It's the closest religion to what I belive in.
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Buddhism basically is agnosticism, but it ain't monolithic there's a lot of varieties and some are almost indistinguishable from deity-worship.
I'd be down with it if it weren't for the aesceticism, I'm too much of a decadent hedonistic neurotic. I'll never reach nirvana with all the baggage I'm carrying.
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Buddhism basically is agnosticism, but it ain't monolithic there's a lot of varieties and some are almost indistinguishable from deity-worship.
I'd be down with it if it weren't for the aesceticism, I'm too much of a decadent hedonistic neurotic. I'll never reach nirvana with all the baggage I'm carrying.
You refer to the buddhist concept of emptiness, that all things in an objective reality have no value, and that it's people and their subjective perception of things that end up giving thing value, and thus end up suffering from it. Example: a pencil for a dog is a piece of wood, but for us it's an instrument for writing, so we are giving the pencil a value of utility. Same goes with friends and people we give our affection, we create these values on these people, and when they disappoint us, we suffer.
Jamie has given alcohol a very extreme value, and he's been attached to it and dependent to it. When really alcohol is this substance that should have no significance at all, in an objective reality. It's just that us humans, inevitably end up putting value on things and then end up fucking shit up and suffer.
Buddhist monks take this concept to the extreme and real significance, and follow asceticism. But the regular buddhist person don't follow this to its extreme. What I'm trying to say is that for us, normal people who fall in love and may have addicting tendencies to whatever, it is very useful to understand the concept of emptiness, to avoid great suffering once these things we give value betray us.
Also Buddhism is monolithic itself: it's the Buddha and his teachings.
Thing is that to make it accessible to people in the past, it has been combined with the religions/traditions at the time. In Tibet, the deities that we see in their gompas belong to the previous Bon tradition. When Buddhism was introduced in Tibet, it was made cohesive with the religion of the time.
It's also true that even in Tibet there are 4 branches of Buddhism... the Dalai Lama belongs to one of them, the yellow hats (in western slang). I don't know where the differences lie. If it is a historical dispute, an interpretative dispute, etc.
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Is 'subjectivity' itself objectively valuable, since it is the only thing that gives things value?
Since 'value' itself is a wholly subjective thing in the first place, isn't placing it in the absolutist objective context pointless? I don't understand the reasoning behind the need for comparison.
In a more practical, non-absolutist sense, I think there are things that have 'objective value', assuming objectivity's goal is to promote life and happiness while to a lesser extent, knowledge and freedom.
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Also Buddhism is monolithic itself: it's the Buddha and his teachings.
Thing is that to make it accessible to people in the past, it has been combined with the religions/traditions at the time. In Tibet, the deities that we see in their gompas belong to the previous Bon tradition. When Buddhism was introduced in Tibet, it was made cohesive with the religion of the time.
It's also true that even in Tibet there are 4 branches of Buddhism... the Dalai Lama belongs to one of them, the yellow hats (in western slang). I don't know where the differences lie. If it is a historical dispute, an interpretative dispute, etc.
it's not any more monolithic than Christianity, which bases itself on the bible... but you've got catholics, eastern orthodox, LDS, witnesses, evangelicals, etc. Same with Islam which is based on the Quran but you've got Shia, Sunni, Sufism, etc.
Point being, Buddhism as 'practice' is varied regionally and historically; my wife is a Korean Buddhist and from what she tells me there are sects that pray to Buddha like a god or something which is vastly different from a lot of other interpretations and practices.
IMO, it's bullshit. I like being attached to things, falling in love, indulging, etc. I can't be bothered to mystify any of that shit. materialist 4 lyfe
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I deleted my post because I realized what topic it was in.
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yo j boy i am totes supportive of you havin' this recovery topic!
i'm so glad we've started talking more recently, because you really are a funny, intelligent, and rad dude! unfortunately, alcohol gets in the way of those great aspects-- so i'll be very glad for it to not be part of your life anymore! seeing you struggle with alcoholism has been difficult for all your pals, and i've been one of many who has worried about you recently.
i'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you're having with quitting... but i am 100% POSITIVE that you can get through it!! once you get past all this, and get your life in order, i guarantee it'll all be worth it! just remember that conversation we had about how one day you're gonna have a stable life, being an awesome dad and making music and playing with puppies and doing everything you love. you are young and talented, and i just know that someday you're gonna have a very happy and successful life. right now, you're taking the first steps to get there! maaann i'm not even a super positive person or anything, but this is all completely the truth of what i think, and i'm so excited for it to happen, and so i just wanna encourage the HECK out of you!! aaaaa!!
addiction suuuuccks. i know how difficult it is, both through witnessing addiction in people close to me, and in having my own share of substance problems (i've been addicted to both DXM and Xanax). my sister almost lost her life because of being addicted to heroin (and other substances), and it was a struggle for my whole family during the years when she was in the thick of battling those addictions. ugh, i don't even want to think back to those messed-up days... bad times, yo. but now, my sister is totally sober, and her life is so much better because of it! it's awesome to see how much things have changed since she overcame her substance abuse problems. of course, i know she's still an addict on the inside, and every day can still be a struggle-- but now, she's well-equipped to deal with her issues (and even potential relapses). aahh, i'm so proud of her for turning her life around~ :D and i'm proud of you, jamie, for starting to do the same~ :>
what my sister did when she was first starting recovery was to do this whole "90 meetings in 90 days" thing. right after getting sober, she forced herself to go three months without having a single day where she didn't go to a meeting (AA/NA/etc). it sure kept her busy, which was exactly what she needed. and she met some very helpful people. she still occasionally goes to meetings nowadays. she also got help from individual therapy, a few in-patient and out-patient rehab programs, and of course from her friends and family.
recovery is all about building up those support systems! and you've already got a great network of online friends who will support you and do whatever we can to help. you can do it bro!! keep on keepin' on~! n_n
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addicted to DXM? how'd that go? how addictive is that?
im curious because sometimes i like to fuck around with that :>
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best of luck, jamie. also strength.
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i've been addicted to ... DXM
really? i didn't think that was possible. i was kinda heavy into dxm when i was quitting smoking, as it was the only thing that legitimately negated my cravings, but i never got near an addiction, which is why i had pretty much written it off as NOT ADDICTIVE AT ALL since i probably unusually susceptible to new addictions at that void-filling point and have never found myself actually craving it.
pretty curious to know more about this, as i've been going around like an asshole telling people that dxm is ok to screw around with. i don't want to be perpetuating bad info if this hits other people that much differently than it hits me. hell, i was posting about it a ton back in the day, so it may have been me who got the idea of it in your head in the first place. you deserve an apology if i fucked up your life even a little bit with that kind of shitty information :(
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what is DXM even?
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DXM is stuff in some (or all) over the top counter cough syrup. Drink enough of it an you can get high.
I think the addiction might be like weed, it's not physically addicting but you might bcome psychologically dependent on it.
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dxm fucked me up quite a bit, i only did it twice. although i don't really want this to become a topic about drug talez. i think those are pretty lame regardless, but i definitely don't want pages of people talking about how cool it is to get high, regardless of what is accepted as addictive of harmful...just drawing a line
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I kicked all my habbits like a year ago, i still have the occasional drink/cigarette but that's only like once or twice a week. It was tricky but pulled through. It's tough at first, but after your head starts clearing up, you can really feel better. Though now, I'm having to deal with depression sober, whilst painfull, it's easier to avoid doing stupid shit. And y'know, not wrecking my liver by drinking surgical alcohol anymore!
Hope you pull through dude, you have all the power of saltworld behind you.
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I'm having to deal with depression sober
yeah, my head is a fucking minefield right now. I didn't realise how much shit I was hiding from, really. people say it gets better.
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I won't be posting everyday as time goes on, but I had a good day today. Went to a meeting, then went out to a pub quiz thing with one of the uni societies. Met some decent seeming people. I actually had some fun. Just 11 days. I think I might be through the initial rough patch, though. The danger then, is keeping myself in line when everything begins to feel fine and getting drunk doesn't seem like such a big deal, which is a trap I fall into time after time. I'll just keep going to the meetings - sometimes they get a little culty, yeah, and even though everyone is nice not everyone is great to listen to - but I'm definitely getting something out of them. That 90 meetings in 90 days thing doesn't even sound that extreme to me right now. My mood is rising, I just need to watch myself.
I'll keep quiet for a few days assuming everything is going according to plan. No need to bump this every day, but I do like the idea of having it here as a check-in point at least for the time being.
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Good to hear that you had a good day and that you are past the worst of it! Does posting here help? I assume yes, if so, post as often as you think is helpful!
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backflip your way to success kiddo
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Aren't you invincible when you backflip?
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You have to time the rolls so that attacks will hit you during your invincibility frames.
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really? i didn't think that was possible. i was kinda heavy into dxm when i was quitting smoking, as it was the only thing that legitimately negated my cravings, but i never got near an addiction, which is why i had pretty much written it off as NOT ADDICTIVE AT ALL since i probably unusually susceptible to new addictions at that void-filling point and have never found myself actually craving it.
pretty curious to know more about this, as i've been going around like an asshole telling people that dxm is ok to screw around with. i don't want to be perpetuating bad info if this hits other people that much differently than it hits me. hell, i was posting about it a ton back in the day, so it may have been me who got the idea of it in your head in the first place. you deserve an apology if i fucked up your life even a little bit with that kind of shitty information :(
it's okay, bro; it's not your fault at all! you have been only a positive influence on my life :D
if you do some googling, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence of DXM addiction. and plenty of people who have used it regularly for extended periods will attest to it having long-term effects, too. as far as studies on DXM neurodependency, here is a case study: http://www.jabfm.org/content/19/3/320.full (http://www.jabfm.org/content/19/3/320.full) and here is a summary paragraph about DXM addiction, from another source (from http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/dxm.asp (http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/dxm.asp) ):
"The level and likelihood of experiencing tolerance and dependence will ultimately depend on the dose and frequency of use. When it is abused regularly, DXM can actually cause some of the symptoms (i.e., insomnia and dysphoria) that it is designed to cure. In addition, high-dose chronic use of DXM can lead to the development of toxic psychosis - a mental condition characterized by a loss of contact with reality along with a confused state - as well as other physiological and behavioral problems. It is unknown, however, what effect infrequent use of low doses has upon the user, although anecdotal reports of prolonged use describe DXM as a drug with moderate physical dependence and tolerance. Most users that display symptoms of withdrawal will experience some form of anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, severe weight loss, and upset stomach."
i definitely had some withdrawal symptoms when i stopped using it. i had been addicted for a while when i was around 14, but i got tired of chugging bottles of cough syrup only to vomit it up later... and it was sometimes making me feel "foggy" even when i wasn't on it. i don't recommend DXM to others because of its moderate addictive qualities, somewhat high likelihood of bad trips, and potential for long-term mental damage. it might be fun for responsible psychonauts to mess around with it once or twice, but i'd caution others against making it a regular thing.
but yes i agree with jamie that we shouldn't allow this topic to derail into ~talkin' 'bout drugz~, unless the discussion is focused around how to stay sober and enjoy life that way.
P.S. Kaworu i'm glad you kicked your old bad habits! i remember when you were pretty messed up, bro... so, it's good to see you clean and dealing with depression in a healthier way. way to go, dude~ :D
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in my experience, getting into running makes everything better. maybe it's just my way of running away from problems, heh heh heh.
i did this thing -> http://www.c25k.com/
half an hours running is pretty meditative PLUS you feel healthier PLUS you're getting goals achieved PLUS you can get involved in a running community PLUS it's a half hour (or usually more) that you're not doing something counter-productive.
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in my experience, getting into running makes everything better. maybe it's just my way of running away from problems, heh heh heh.
i did this thing -> http://www.c25k.com/
half an hours running is pretty meditative PLUS you feel healthier PLUS you're getting goals achieved PLUS you can get involved in a running community PLUS it's a half hour (or usually more) that you're not doing something counter-productive.
but I hate being out of breath
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exercise in general is great both physically and mentally for pretty much everyone. i personally have found regular weightlifting to be very good for improving self-image and fighting off depression. i don't run because of asthma problems and also because i simply don't enjoy it, but i think it's a great activity for people who do like it and are able to do it (for all the reasons Frisky SKeleton mentioned).
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Late but good luck man :)
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but I hate being out of breath
on c25k if you're out of breath you're running too fast, so you just slow down! open your eyes to the world of running that's slightly faster/higher impact than walking!
running actually really sucks for the most part but afterwards you feel great, so running with a program is useful
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Late but good luck man :)
there isn't really any late, this is an ongoing thing. i appreciate it. 14 days today. feels longer, in some ways, but i think i'm doing all right. i've been looking into volunteering work. you know, the idea being that if i start to see myself do positive things and realise the ways i could be using my time, wasting it will become less tolerable.
i'm moving back in with my parents for a while soon, so I can eventually actually get on my own two feet rather than just hopping one legged all over the world like I usually do.
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What kind of volunteer work you thinking of man?
Like you're planning on going into teaching still, right? Getting experience with kids would be gold dust in that case. I did some volunteer work with the NCH - like a national network of respite centres for kids with disabilities or emotional disorders. It was fucking fantastic, it really helped them out, and it was basically playing games/helping with trips/providing company/sorting out food. It was a genius position to be sure.
You should definitely explore some shit like that, for reals.
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I made an appointment this morning for an intro session next monday at a place called starter packs, which is pretty simple; they make up starter packs for homeless people moving into accommodation. I figure I'll give that my best shot, and I'm also awaiting an application pack for something that sounds really interesting. It is a position where I'd go to Glasgow Airport and be a member of a committee that oversees the short term holding facilities people who have just arrived in the UK but don't have visas get put in. Monitoring conditions and stuff like that. I think something like that could be really fulfilling.
I might be planning to go into teaching, but really I'm not too sure about much right now. It definitely sounds like a good career and I can see myself doing it, but I don't know if I would be qualified or if other opportunities might come up. I still have 3 semesters of uni to go, anyway. I'm going to start looking for a real job next summer, just before I go into my final year.
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Dude, the respect I have for you just grew to new heights with the words:
they make up starter packs for homeless people moving into accommodation.
Homelessness and Lonely Old Peoples are my two real areas that make me want to cry. That isn't hyperbole either, the thought of both of those issues really, really upsets me. What do I do about it? Sadly fuck all, except for donations. Time is way more important than cash, but I have so much more of the latter than I do of the former. I tend to be "generous" with homeless people I see also, to the point where some of them literally can't believe it, but I put the words "generous" in speech marks because it isn't really generous comparatively. Like it's generous to give £20 to a street person when I've just been for an expensive meal, or night on the town, or to the shops in general? The only sickening thing is that more people don't engage in this common decency. I know people who're angry about me giving cash to the homeless for example, basically being upset with ME for being decent, rather than themselves for their oppressive attitude.
Well done man, really. For even considering it, you're a fucking good guy.
PS: Sorry for ramblings, my brain got all emotional and shit.
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yeah, virtually any kind of work with the homeless is really good. for as broad as the term really is, you can be certain they all could use some kind of aid. sounds great jamie.
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18 days. I'm miserable and lonely. I felt tempted briefly tonight for the first time to get drunk because it's been one long slog of that since I quit and I felt like abandoning my head. This crud is rough business. I won't do it though. It was just a reminder. Hello friends.
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Keep going man! You want this!
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You got this dude, you can do it.
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i want to quit smoking but if i do i will go completely insane
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it's so woven into the fabric of my life that i really cannot think of what things would be like without cigarettes. what the hell would i do with myself in public?
i would need like a big stretch of time where i'm not doing anything for about a month or two so i could just hole up in my apartment listening to music and watching movies in order to kick this shit and learn how to function without it.
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i tried quitting smoking once. Managed to last 2 years of being smoke free. If all of your friends and coworkers smoke too then it's not going to be very easy. A lot of my friends were dicks and laughed it off and continued to offer me cigarettes all the time, coworkers thought that I was a weirdo for sitting inside by myself during breaks, etc. Also the cravings never fully go away. You'll eventually get to a point where you can go several days and maybe even weeks without thinking about them, but you'll still always have those moments where you'll want one. Nicotine gum really helps though.
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18 days. I'm miserable and lonely. I felt tempted briefly tonight for the first time to get drunk because it's been one long slog of that since I quit and I felt like abandoning my head. This crud is rough business. I won't do it though. It was just a reminder. Hello friends.
it gets better. remember. when you feel like shit, try to remember that you don't have to agree with your feelings and mute/react on them. accepting that you feel like however you feel (okay, today my mood/my body feels like this - it's affecting me right now) and being conscious about that, letting go/giving up from the crave to improve your every moment might help a lot. it's the whole...resistance/friction vs letting things go through you like a water.
i'm still suggesting about that 5-htp! though i'm not sure if what you have now is a withdrawal sympton (seretonin) or if it's your issues coming up now that you ain't muting/gagging them. even still... i'd suggest it. it's still worlds better (switching from depency to freedom) than say SSRI's or alcohol or drugs.
actually, yeah ahah it will definitely get better, i just realized that it has to be your body craving for the substance that you have keep doing for such a long time. don't give it a shit! take it easy and laugh at everything like a buddha. laugh at your shitty feelings. idk i'd have lot to tell about this but that would require a pm/irc convo for some other time
my head became less of a self-beating minefield when i couple of years ago started to reflect/think my shit through, like why i feel like this at the moment, where does this tension come from etc
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i would need like a big stretch of time where i'm not doing anything for about a month or two so i could just hole up in my apartment listening to music and watching movies in order to kick this shit and learn how to function without it.
this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
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try to remember that you don't have to agree with your feelings
I think this may be the trick to becoming a real person for me! It is very difficult but I'm focused mostly on this.
I'm not sure if it is possible to become a person who can control the way they feel about things but being able to actually identify 'this is a feeling I am not going to act on' must be possible. I mean more possible, I can deny certain things of course, but there is a lot of shit I do and have done which is like 'this is something I shouldn't be doing' as I am doing it and I do it anyway.
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this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
I don't know if it this is just an "to each their own" kinda business, but when I was dealing with getting over withdraw from smoking (albeit, it was not a particularly long period that I had started, maybe 6 months) I found that the reason that I had started in the first place was boredom (along with it being super cheap becaues I was living in Nicaragua at the time) and that for me the easiest way to get over was to become super focused on projects such as school related things, or working on music related things/playing with other individuals/having something to do other than smoke. However, I'm sure this was not as paritcularly severe as any of the other situations listed in this topic (yours, jaime's etc), but just from my (limited) personal experience, I found that having something to invest myself in was helpful. Granted, this is not coming from a situation where true withdraw has a medical implication (like alcohol), and of course you need time off to deal with those things, however, I just think from a psychological standpoint that it is helpful to be invested in other things to distract you from some of the psychological symptoms (and I'm not trying to underemphasize the importance of some of the medical symptoms).
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I'm not sure if it is possible to become a person who can control the way they feel about things but being able to actually identify 'this is a feeling I am not going to act on' must be possible.
I mean more possible, I can deny certain things of course, but there is a lot of shit I do and have done which is like 'this is something I shouldn't be doing' as I am doing it and I do it anyway.
it is possible! you are looking it in the right way for sure. it's kinda odd at first (what do you mean you don't take your impulses/your feelings/cravings/traumas seriously?? are you a clown or something, someone no-one can't take seriously? Hah hah, unreal fears! Gotta love 'em, gotta hate 'em! What Would We Be Without Them... Hah hah! Prom Night!)
but you get used to it. the goal ain't resistance (must. control. conditions.) but just letting things be, letting of the NEED of control (eg. i must change something right now or i don't know what i'm gonna do -> i'm fine as i am now).
there's a lot of mental coping? managing? conscious mechanisms i've learned in my life and that is one of them.
it sure sounds odd to your common person but as an end-result, you won't become numbed/un-human being/robot but more conscious of how your consciosness-nerve/messages-body works & you can choose to understand yourself and act on it.
it reminds me of one episode when i got really drunk and what i really disliked in it - like i became this really needy, emotional idiot who couldn't see outside this pipelike-gaze/mind about what's going on with other people or WHY am i doing what i am atm, not picking clues or anything. like i'm not giving shit to you, this is my personal bad memory!! i made a fool of me... 'was the reason why i have been pr adamant of not taking alcohol than very little in nights. maybe it's also a control issue but i'd also like to decice/have the freedom to notice what's going on below in myself, too.
another (better) example: there are days/times when i get bothered/stressed out/sad, anxious, whatever about whatever - and then i realize that ahhah, why should i sit in this shit, i could just take a walk outside and do something else. or not do anything!! in turn, try not to get into a procrastination/into another addiction, to protect from uncomfortable feelings - it's just that i noticed that... you know how some stuff raises "issues" in you? like you get this fear, anger, sadness, unrestlessness or something from idk for some it's authencity or acceptance or whatver, whatever it is. you think about the stuff/drop into this vortex of negative shit for hours to no end. it's like a trigger!
well, i noticed that i enjoy the life the most when i observing, idk, beauty in nature. you get lost into the "flow" of eg playing guitar/improvising. when i'm curious and open to everything. i feel pr good. who THEN gives a SHIT (i mean you either) what you "are" as a human person or your emotional or historical baggage is when you could just live the moment, observe, relax, enjoy good things?
so i thought that why shouldn't i try to stick to this feeling for the most of time. i might have issues but i don't need to agree or act on those feelings - either i could accept that i probably feel like shit for now or eg do something that changes your mood. usually just being conscious about that you feel like something helps and then relaxing and cheering up.
it's just that you can easily forget it! as you are so into your then-current life situation/work/school/social shit atm but it always makes everything better when i remember this.
when you have experienced something like brainfog symptons/your highs and lows differ in the day, you sorta realize how relativistic everything is, even your emotions/feelings on your "issues". if i wait a little bit then suprisingly (non-suprisingly for me these days), my feelings change, i can think like an arrow and i would have to REALLY work myself into sad thoughts. when i'm fogged, i feel like shit, i'm the lowest scum who'se intelligence had dropped vastly, everything looks hopeless, people think less of me for this for sure... and yet, suprisingly, every fucking single time the world doesn't notice (like anyone else). i have to point out every fucking time... and it's kinda hilarious/ridicilous if you think about what i do, try to upkeep this image of "worthless" person when you have that much of resistance. granted, you're going to keep having those bad episodes and less control and to act upon but you know, they're just episodes. you can even LIVE within the episode comfortably, just experience it and goof around if you want.
groaaan so i barfed out a bigpost, sorry. hope it helps in any way at all, jesus. the trick is to notice when you are trying to protect from feelings of restlessness with a substance (hence above ATARI's post), thus doing something, getting into something productive helps naturally. ahahah shut up bonzi, enough is enough. Good luck? nah, good LIFE jamie...
EDIT idk bottomline: there's a lotta ways you can figure shit out!! it's a skill like anything. it sounds like you can start yours now. i started straightenin' out my life... 2? 2½ years ago and things are good now + something learning/processing every day.
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I recently developed allergic reactions to a whole bunch of foods, I don't know exactly which ones yet but I can spot when they have triggered a flare up in my skin and my breathing. I can still eat them but my health and image declines really badly if I do consistently as I used to.
If I drink a beer my face turns red and a clear plasma-like liquid seeps through the pores and runs down like itchy fire. As a result of this I haven't drunk anything for a long time. I try small drinks from time to time but it is evident the next day and I look a bit beaten up.
The thing I miss most is the escapism you get. I wish there was something legal that I could do to tune out from my gremlins. If you think about it logically you should be able to reason with yourself and thus not require escapism but there are times when you cut corners. You follow the path of least resistance in order to swing things into a temporary order.
It is interesting the levels of discrimination you receive from some people when they realise you're no fun because you can't drink, and you're ill a lot of the time because you don't know what's causing the reactions.
The strength I require is to give up all the food, sugar and processed things. I gave up smoking once when I was younger and it was nothing on this.
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i want to quit smoking but if i do i will go completely insane
You could try smoking E-Cigs. That's what my brother does. (well, actually since he's gotten a car hes been smoking the regular shit)
this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
Yeah, I myself am definitely addicted to caffeine.
The first time I realized it I looked up the withdrawl symptoms and realized I was and before for some reason I had this idea of me being addicted to anything was laughable... I thought I was too boring to be addicted to something :P
The thing that keeps me from giving up caffeine though is that caffeine itself is only problematic if you consume to much or if you consume it at night. Also I like the taste of cola and (only semi-recently) coffee.
150mg is typically the most I have in a day. Cup of black coffee (or the opposite coffee, a Frappucino) plus a Pepsi or 2.
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It is interesting the levels of discrimination you receive from some people when they realise you're no fun because you can't drink, and you're ill a lot of the time because you don't know what's causing the reactions.
fuck em
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The problem with e-cigs is they don't provide the same visceral reaction that a normal cigarette will. For me it was the habits that are hardest to break, and the desire for feeling the smoke entering your lungs. The e-cigs can get partway there, better than gum, because it gives you nicotine and lets your hands/mouth mimic the ritual of smoking, but for me, not having that real SMOKE hitting my lungs just meant I was doomed. Then again I never had an e-cig thing of my own, only used friends' briefly.
I'm trying to quit smoking again, too, which has become sort of a weekly deal for me at this point since I started smoking again over the summer after quitting for a year and a half. Fuckin extinction bursts.
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Also I like the taste of cola and (only semi-recently) coffee.
I can't speak for other kinds but caffeine free mountain dew tastes p. much exactly like regular to me. These days I mostly drink water and milk but switching to caffeine free mountain dew was not much of an adjustment (aside from the caffeine of course)
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JUST POSTING TO ENCOURAGE JAMIE MORE
IM USING MY BRAIN TO SEND YOU POSITIVE VIBES AS I TYPE THIS
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Also the other big difference with caffeine is that unless you've developed an incurable craving for things with caffeine in them, you can occasionally enjoy things with caffeine without it being a colossally bad idea (whereas an ex-alcoholic probably doesn't need to start having a drink here and there, same for smoking). Like, at restaurants or whatever I might have a regular soda. I have noticed though if I have a couple of caffeinated drinks in a day then I will get those withdrawal symptoms later, but one here and there doesn't hurt.
Anyway, I'd really encourage anyone with a caffeine addiction to attempt to break it because it has made me feel a whole lot better in general. But, I don't wanna derail this topic into a thing about this since caffeine is ultimately far from the worst addiction you can have.
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this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
this is what i had to do with caffeine basically. like, i was ridiculously addicted to caffeine, i drank several mountain dews a day for like MOST OF MY LIFE so if i didn't start my day with some sorta caffeine i'd get ridiculously sick and have headaches and be puking. it's really gross looking back on that and thinking "that is literally how your body was wired". i basically just stopped cold-turkey and spent a week feeling like total shit and spent at least another week or two having no energy. i would wake up, have breakfast, take a long nap, eat something else, be awake for a few, then go to sleep. it was awful, but it was pretty much the only way that i was able to do it. luckily it was summer vacation so i didn't have to really DO anything during that time.
(just so you know i'm not comparing the severity of caffeine addiction to alcohol/cigarrettes/etc., just that if you have a big block of time in which you can let yourself deal with withdrawal without having to do anything important it is a godsend)
No, I think the comparison is apt, stimulant addiction is super real and can fuck you up. My mom had the same problem with caffeine, it got to the point where she had high blood pressure problems, it's hard too because you basically rely on it to function. I have a similar problem with caffeine, I lose sleep because of and it can't be good for my health.
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Yeah, when I went to Iceland I didn't have easy access to tons of soda (and I don't like coffee) so I had to literally take excedrin migraine every day to keep from being sick. Again the effect isn't nearly as bad as tobacco or alcohol but it does still interfere with your life.
Like, I know that I'm really, REALLY unable to stop myself from indulging in things, I have no dang impulse control, and this is why I refuse to start doing any sorts of substances. I mean, I feel like I'm some sort of baby for this, but I've never had a drink of alcohol in my life. I'm literally afraid to, because I know that I have a personality that would very very easily lead to substance abuse.
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Kind of early in the day (3am) but 21 days today.
This might sound without the scope of this topic but I just had a conversation with my ex-girlfriend where I said everything I know deep down is the right thing to say. I've been desperately trying to get her back after breaking up with her twice and treating her like shit, including badmouthing her around here multiple times, and she just wasn't having it this time. We were together for three and a half years. It's the only meaningful relationship I've had outside of my family.
She's seeing someone else now, and I told her I hope she will be happy and that I'm sorry for all the stuff I've done. I told her she helped me learn how to be a better person, and that I'll always care about her, but I can finally try to do what I should have done a long time ago and let her be. She's a real sweetheart kind of person, this lady, she puts herself through some shit and deserves as much peace as she can get.
Anyway, this is very difficult for me to maintain, but I'm not drinking, so I can handle it. I can help the part of me which wants her to be happy grow and just focus on getting myself straight and building a good life for me, rather than trying to control someone else. She didn't let me anyway, she's grown up.
I think I'm going to be alone for a while. That's just going to have to be okay. There isn't any good way to dump all this stuff I'm dealing with on another person. Plus, I don't think I'm really capable of being a good person to be around just yet, but I think this is the way to get there.
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How was Iceland Vellfire? I'm going there in a few weeks.
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That's sucks Jamie. There are other 'fish' as they say though.
And hell, you're still literally doing infinity better than me in the ladies department... (You need no depressing details)
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I'm more talking about coming to terms with the control issues I had, and this concept of letting other people be happy even when it isn't exactly convenient for me. I'm not saying I want to be alone, but I recognise that at this point in my life it might not be the worst thing to have to confront this stuff by myself without using human shields against my own issues. I mean for me that all relates to drinking as well - it's a deeply integrated system of flaws I've let build up. It'll take a long time to sort this fucker out!
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Yeah, I understood.
Kind of one track minded of me to go on about something... else.
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you better not be drinking
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you better not be drinking
nope
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Have you been getting the shakes yet? I still have pain so I shouldn't be trying to quit my painkillers anyway, but last time I tried to cut down on them I really started feeling super awful all-round, so I have at least a minor semblance of what the pressure must be like for you.
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all that stuff is progressive. i get shakes occasionally about a day after a long binge, and they last about 12 hours or so. it gets longer and more fucked up. i started getting certain symptoms which i knew were to come. i didn't get them all, those would be what developed next if i started drinking again.
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:/
I guess you really have a metaphorical sword of damocles hanging above your head. if you started drinking again now, things might really get nasty for you.
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we're talking painful diarrhea for like 4 days afterwards. as in afraid to fall asleep lying in certain positions that might...facilitate it. apparently it all gets a lot worse.
but whatever - 26 days, i'm still relatively healthy/robust. i'm fine, and there's no reason i can't stay that way.
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Cool! :)
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Well, 30 days. I guess that's one of the milestones. I've done it before - not too often, but it'll be 60 days when I am entering a stretch I haven't managed before. I feel very little temptation to drink, but it is not fun being fully aware how miserable and empty I have let and forced my life to become. Fuck this shit, I'm never putting myself in this position again. The most social activity I can muster is simply going to an AA meeting, and after that I wandered around the university library for 15 minutes by myself then gave up and came home. Stopping is easy. I can barely withstand this constant loneliness.
I've got the hope it isn't just something about me that makes people not want to be around me, but the megaton wart of active drinking that has so totally alienated me. I mean, I'm not seeing nothing but years of this ahead, I know this is most likely temporary. It's still really hard. I lost someone really important over this, but besides that I wish I had other people in my life, anyway. I'm volunteering, going to meetings, trying to work and trying to be interesting again. Hopefully things will pick up some momentum in the new year, but it's going to be a long fucking christmas break.
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congratulations! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us3dQ0nnlHY)
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I think I might have to quit going online the way I do.
Quit everything!
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Join social clubs and sports teams or whatever you are interested in, perhaps that will help?
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Join social clubs and sports teams or whatever you are interested in, perhaps that will help?
Oh, yeah these are the obvious and good ideas. It's a bad time of year for that because of the holidays, but I'll be doing all that when everyone comes back to Glasgow and things are open again. I'm still at the point where if there aren't things organised outside of myself that I can just go to then, well, I don't really have anything social I can do. I'm not freaking out about it too much now, cos I can't expect this all to happen at once. 33 days is cool but it isn't a long time to build a social life from scratch. I need to force myself to become more outgoing though, which is a good thing for me, because I've always really rested in my shell even though I knew it wasn't comfort but some kind of shyness and insecurity keeping me there.
Still going to meetings, enjoying them, everything is going well. I joined the gym the other day - I always hear that as advice and I know it's something I wouldn't mind picking up as a hobby, as well. I won't post so often in this topic just with updates about that now, and I'm sure everyone will become very aware very quickly if I was to backslide, so everyone can rest their sweet heads knowing old slimebag is probably doing just fine.
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I have the utmost respect for people who try to beat an addiction and especially for those who manage to pull it off. My father did it (cigarettes) and I have done it (fizzy drinks). Alcohol is probably on a whole another level than my examples though. For what its worth, I want you to know that I'm rooting for you.
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alcohol is the most dangerous thing to withdraw from from a medical perspective so its definitely at a different level than pretty much anything except maybe heroin
we're all rooting for you man, don't you forget that.
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hoping in a year I look back at these posts and think 'wow, i've come a long way'
40 days, but I don't feel good. It hasn't been good since I stopped. There have been a few moments when I've convinced myself that I'm not lonely and just really bored with my life, but they are all in my mind cos I don't feel I have actually done anything to change my situation yet. Bad time of year, yeah, and early days, so I'm not being bleak about it, it is just tough. I don't like having to deal with these feelings all day every day without deluding myself with alcohol into believing I am cool or having fun or something. Even the hangovers and the rapid rise to normal mental function served as a cool upper for my moods. It was all up and down, I didn't really have the space to be bored and lonely. I guess I never realised how much I was self-medicating, because I never felt as if I was truly unhappy. I would focus on things I had done wrong while drinking, which I could act on, and anyway - it was a cycle.
This is different. I'd say it is harder. I've been contending with a break-up, or rather, the consequences of a break-up I had months ago, and that's definitely been on my mind most of the time, too. I've got to believe there is a way upwards, and once this stupid fucking new year shit is over I'll start throwing myself into things and hoping I forget about the way I feel right now as it all gets filled up with the things that people do in life.
Haven't been sleeping right, either. That'll be part of it. Hopefully it'll all iron itself out. I know I can't rush it. I don't really have many places to turn to for this kind of venting - well, nowhere in real life because I don't have a friend, so I have been letting it out here. I don't know if it qualifies as handling my shit, but whatever keeps me from drinking, I guess, until something better comes along.
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Is there nobody else in your age group at your AA meetings that you can hang with? I know someone who went through narcotics anonymous and they met a shitload of new friends through there. Be more proactive. I bet there's at least one other person (if not more) that're in the exact same boat as you and are looking for a new non-drinking friend to hang with. Try asking someone.
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Well, maybe yeah. I mean most people are older but there are some younger people around. I'm pretty sure at 23 I'm close to the youngest in each meeting I've been to, which is only about 20 or so at this point.
I haven't actually considered reaching out to people in the meetings. I guess I've been thinking of them as a what goes on in the room stays in the room kind of thing. I was invited to have dinner with the group members of one meeting I joined last week, but I said no cos I don't know - I should've said yes. They are all much older than I am, was all, I guess. Plus I still do stuff like write people off for having a cheesey middle aged sense of humour, etc. One of the guys was a bit of an attention-hog, I figured he'd be boring/annoying...pretty picky fuckhead huh
I haven't just been brooding to myself, though. Before everything shut down for christmas, I was volunteering, working a bit and going to meetings and that filled the days.
You're right about the meetings though, I'll be more aware of those kind of opportunities.
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I'm really glad you're still on the straight and narrow and proud of the fact you're still standing tall. Keep it up, pal. We're all rooting for you.
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Yeah, you are doing pretty amazingly. Most people probably wouldn't be able to do it so well would be my guess. Plus you have the benefit of doing this at an earlier age than most which actually is probably more of a good thing.
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You can do it, man.
I stopped drinking back in 2007, and kept it that way for 2 years. It all changed when I got involved in a destructive relationship and started drinking again.
So, I've decided to stop drinking, again. As of today, 6 months clean. :)
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Oh, wow. Sounds great, Pulits. Glad to hear about that.