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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Trujin on November 07, 2007, 06:31:05 pm

Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Trujin on November 07, 2007, 06:31:05 pm
A bizar shooting just happened in Finland. I didn't saw a topic of it, so I thought I might as well start it.

You can read the article I post with this topic. But in advance I would like to say that it's bizar this person anounced the shooting on the Internet (Youtube) before it happened. So it could be prevented. The material that he distributed can be found in this download link (at youtube the movies were removed).

http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/Pekka-Eric_Auvinen___Jokela_High_School_Massacre.zip

Random article (I read a Dutch one):

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/... (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/a-deadly-school-shooting-this-time-in-finland/index.html?ex=1352178000&en=033f286ac2351d1e&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) (long url trimmed)

Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: GirlBones on November 07, 2007, 06:53:39 pm
I just read about this. I'm curious to see what types of connections people make of this, mostly because I'm too out of my head to do any thinking right now.

Terrible.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: goldenratio on November 07, 2007, 06:55:50 pm
I was just talking to DS's mom with chef on irc. DS and rami are gone :(
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: DS on November 07, 2007, 06:58:19 pm
Quote
For every 100 people in Finland, there are 56 guns, according to the study.
This is complete bullshit. EDIT: Actually, it's not. There are over 2 million guns in Finland but it's not like 56 out of 100 actually own a gun. The army has fucktons of guns and sure, some people have guns as well (for a job or some hobby) but vast majority doesn't own a gun and it's not legal to own a gun either.

Anyway, this is really sad and I never thought this would happen in Finland. :(
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Orange00 on November 07, 2007, 07:30:20 pm
I remember the survey about Finland being the 3rd most armed country.. which is BS. I know absolutely no one who'd have a gun. Only guns I can think of are some hunting rifles.

Anyways..
I heard about this shooting after I came from work. Don't really know what to say about it. Shows the glory of YouTube once again. The adult that was killed was headmaster of the high school, I believe. Apparently the shooter was shooting at police too and eventually shot himself.
Also, this guy didn't seem to have anything against this school (yeah, right), it was ment to be some kind of message to society..
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Cheshire Cat on November 07, 2007, 07:54:48 pm
I bet the media still gets blamed for this.
Bet you anything.

This is really sad though. I don't see what we can do to stop people like this, save tighter gun laws, and knowing that partt of the world, they've probably got pretty good ones in place all ready.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Shinan on November 07, 2007, 07:55:04 pm
I blame videogames. It's obvious that the atrocities known as computer games need to be vanquished. I'm certain this kid tried to play Dwarf Fortress but couldn't get his head around it and got really upset when his dwarves died from starvation.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Lars on November 07, 2007, 08:22:06 pm
This one is kinda scary since it's happening in a neighbouring country :(
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Supra Mairo on November 08, 2007, 07:25:29 am
I bet the media still gets blamed for this.
Bet you anything.
Actually right now they are just reporting the death toll on this which is 9 atm and seems that's the end of it.

Also there's one article about finding someone to blame and they blame the school shooting trend in the US. And mild mental instability. The guy made some vid before this stating what his reasons are, in which he claimed he is not affected by movies, music, games etc. and that he was just fed up (this is stated in a pretty respected newspaper so i guess it's true?).

Also iirc the only ways to own a gun legally is to be a member of some hunting club for x amount of time and then getting a license for it, or being a cop or a career soldier.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 08, 2007, 07:30:31 am
The download link isn't working for me. Did it get taken down?

Could anyone send me the videos via msn or something?
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Neophyte on November 08, 2007, 07:32:59 am
The shooter is dead now...at least that's what CNN says.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.html
"Humanity is overrated"

What the hell is wrong with this guy...
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: datamanc3r on November 08, 2007, 08:26:15 am
I see other countries are quick to take up this American pastime.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: dada on November 08, 2007, 09:34:53 am
I see other countries are quick to take up this American pastime.
Sadistic and murderous people are completely randomly scattered across the globe. There's nothing American or Finnish or Afghan about it.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: JJ on November 08, 2007, 02:38:24 pm
He loves freedom, justice and moral philosophy, but he hates equality, tolerance and human rights.

Sorry, loved* and hated*.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: fatty on November 08, 2007, 05:34:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIKUWgsIncg

He was IMed by the guy before the shooting apparently.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: chanicakes on November 08, 2007, 05:44:41 pm
I just wanna play video games, YA HEARD?!

That's crazy, it seems like they wanted to see what reaction would occur before the fact and then did it... well my idea on it is hard to explain but it's like a theory of societal mechanics of today and how nobody will notice until something really happens.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Parker on November 08, 2007, 06:07:02 pm
This is awful. :(

edit:
" "I am prepared to fight and die for my cause," he wrote. "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection." "
I guess he was a disgrace of the human race and a failure of natural selection since he turned the gun on himself! lol!
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 08, 2007, 06:46:32 pm
Good to know that I fall under the 3% the deemed worthy of living.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: alucard on November 08, 2007, 07:08:37 pm
The best part is how they blame America for this  :rolleyes:
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Lars on November 08, 2007, 07:38:16 pm
Man I've spent a few hours reading some of this bloke's comments (wasnt easy since his profile has been deactivated) and he's a fucking idiot. No, seriously.

His ideas (appearantly called Social-Darwinism?) is based on evolution, and that in today's society all weak and strong people are able to reproduce, halting the the evolution of mankind and, in fact, causing devolution. I agree to some extenct that today's society does hinder the survival of the fittest (I don't agree that's a bad thing though, I rather think humans are the first to be able to live together in harmony and defying the laws of nature (although we don't live in harmony)), but his views are entirely negative on the matter.

The thing is, he seems to believe that evolution is semi-conscious, that it works towards a certain goal (divine being) when unhindered, and since today's society is slowing this down he believes the state has the right to execute any human that represents the devolution. Devolution is a pseudoscience-phrase, since no such thing really exists. There exists mutation, and as a consequence of mutation there exists evolution.

Ok, on to his comments. Thing is, he believes these ideas to be very true (appearantly) and he pretty much trolled youtube. Yeah, he's a fucking YOUTUBE TROLL. Holy fucking shit, how pathetic is that? Trolling youtube? I don't mean being random and shitty, but he'd go into videos and post shit like "You are a worthless human being, kill yourself fuckhead. Youre fat, go eat at mcdonalds, lardface." etc. Some guy decides to actually argue with him and posts points and all he does is tell him he's useless, that Hitler and Stalin weren't murderers, and how he should kill him.

Ok my point is, this guy is a youtube troll. Come on. Didn't the newspaper go about how "he isnt stupid" or something like that? Someone that spends his day flaming on youtube and going debate Rhuan-style is clearly a fucking idiot. He is the type of guy that would be banned from here after 3-4 days and then sign up again and make a topic in general about WHY WAS I BANNED FUCKHEADS etc.

Also he clearly believes he 'gets' something the rest of the world doesn't.

Here are some of his comments though:






Some of these are taken out of context but I'm too lazy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGscnCn9fNY <- This is where all these quotes are gotten from. The dude and some other chick also has him posting on their other videos if you search around a bit. I just decided to get all quotes from one since im too lazy to jump around.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: LORd on November 09, 2007, 11:36:40 am
I should probably be deeply shocked considering that this was (I guess?) the first school shooting in Scandinavia and that it occurred in the rural district where I used to go to primary school, but turns out I am not! All I can really muster together is empathy for the victims and their families. I blame the Internet for accustoming and desensitizing me to school shootings.

Also I would think no one takes his "message" seriously, possibly not even himself. While I kind of dislike analyzing people like this, especially with info I have only extracted from the news, it all seems so awkwardly strung together that it was more like he just really wanted to shoot some people up but felt like it would be half-hearted if there wasn't a philosophy behind it. But well, looks like he did manage to change society somewhat: there will sure as hell be massive youth mental health and school security hysteria up here in the north for the next few months at least.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Trujin on November 09, 2007, 01:00:59 pm
I watched the video and the video comments on it. When I saw them I was surprised to see how, for one, all those people like the word fuck a lot. And two, how they think they are all better then everybody. Funny thing is that after I read some stuff about intelligence and had some life experience I do agree that there are a lot of stupid en ignorant people among us. But who cares, that's just society, if you can't cope up with people being (in your opinion) worse as you, well in that case, you are a weakling yourself.

Next to that I can't see where the comments of this Finnish shooter toward blablaatheist come from. He looks like a nerd too, so before bringing up blablaatheist is fat, he should have had a good look at hisself.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: ReloadXPsi on November 10, 2007, 06:50:40 pm
Sounds like another Harris/Klebold wannabe like that Cho guy. What a fucking loser. The sad thing is that these still never get prevented. Mind you it's kinda hard, major terrorist plots tend to be a lot more conspicuous that some pissed off high-schooler (or wherever they are) hiding a few weapons on his person... when's the last time we heard news on a school shooting being prevented?

(Loads of people are now gonna post news articles where that's happened, I just know it)

Edit: Uh, his name was "Pekka-Eric"? *immature giggle*
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Drule on November 10, 2007, 07:36:16 pm
Wasn't Cho motivated by his underclass living conditions
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 10, 2007, 07:37:43 pm
haha this guys pwned those n00bs
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Ratt on November 10, 2007, 08:45:54 pm
Wasn't Cho motivated by his underclass living conditions

As far as we can tell, he was motivated by his hatred for rich and beautiful people squandering their lives. EDIT: namely against him.

I love how many people are describing this guy as a moron and a idiot and a freak...its these words that can make the mentally instable do these kind of things all because you scoff at their social standing and beliefs on the world.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Drule on November 10, 2007, 09:43:26 pm
Heh what a loser (just look at the way he dressed)...
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: ReloadXPsi on November 11, 2007, 05:42:09 pm
Heh what a loser (just look at the way he dressed)...
Please, reserve that award for that Asa Coon bloke.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: eer on November 11, 2007, 07:27:20 pm
haha this guys pwned those n00bs
you are a fuck.
Title: Shooting in Finland
Post by: Marmot on November 11, 2007, 07:44:44 pm
ugh people dont understand what "survival of the fittest" means.

it has nothing to do with being clever, strong, etc--it has to do with your ability to reproduce in order to pass genes.

you can be fucking hercules but if you can't reproduce, you are not fit.

besides there is nothing "progressive" or "regressive" about it, it just happens-