Gaming World Forums

General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: the_bub_from_the_pit on November 16, 2007, 12:15:24 am

Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: the_bub_from_the_pit on November 16, 2007, 12:15:24 am


Wow, Saudi Arabia is still in the fucking past. Only a couple of months ago there was that article which stated that women could get the right to drive in Saudi Arabia, and now we come to this and we can still see how fucking backwards their country is. Pretty horrible stuff!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7096814.stm
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Wash Cycle on November 16, 2007, 12:20:23 am
it is Saudi Arabia

you ought to read up on Wahhabism (then this kind of shit wouldnt suprise you)
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Paranoia Dude on November 16, 2007, 12:24:20 am
she should have thought twice before getting a vagina

it's always those damn women's fault
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Swordfish on November 16, 2007, 12:28:48 am
Holy fuck, maybe feminists or womens rights groups should go to Saudi :fogetmmh: they'd have a field day :fogetlaugh:
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Sarhan on November 16, 2007, 12:41:25 am
Quote from: Swordfish on November 16, 2007, 12:28:48 am
Holy fuck, maybe feminists or womens rights groups should go to Saudi :fogetmmh: they'd have a field day :fogetlaugh:

They'd get gang raped and then kicked out.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Swordfish on November 16, 2007, 12:47:21 am
Ha ha lol maybe even lashes as punishment for being with unrelated men XD. I always knew they were kinda back woulds, but not this far back
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Lars on November 16, 2007, 01:30:14 am
Quote from: FlowerPower on November 16, 2007, 12:15:24 am
Wow, Saudi Arabia is still in the fucking passed.
I'm not normally a member of the grammar police, but that is fucking disgusting.

As for the topic, I remember reading a book from a Norwegian female journalist who went and lived in Afghanistan at the same time the US troops invaded. Taliban rules were still strong, and there's one chapter that describes a young girl (like 8-10 years old) being raped and she can't do anything about it since she'd be put to death. Maybe it's old news, but the way the story was presented in the book pretty much made me sick.

Anyway, Taliban is much worse than Saudi-Arabia. Those guys are animals!
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Drule on November 16, 2007, 01:50:55 am
Jesus Christ. That's one of the most horrible things I've read in a long time.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: the_bub_from_the_pit on November 16, 2007, 01:58:23 am
Quote from: Lars on November 16, 2007, 01:30:14 am
I'm not normally a member of the grammar police, but that is fucking disgusting.

Ha, oh wow. I don't even know what I was thinking there...
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Doktormartini on November 16, 2007, 02:07:36 am
I'm pretty sure that's Saudi law and not Sharia law...

this kinda stuff is pretty common with many of those corrupt governments over there.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Shepperd on November 16, 2007, 02:35:14 am
OH TELL ME MORE DOKTORMARTINI
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 04:28:01 am
Did you just realize this shit happens in the Middle East? This isn't even close to the worst of it (sad to say).
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: crone_lover720 on November 16, 2007, 05:03:04 am
I'm always linking to FGM so I'm not gonna

but yeah while this is fucking disgusting, similar stuff happens over there all the time. women are still treated horribly most places in the world
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Ash on November 16, 2007, 05:43:53 am
Quote from: FlowerPower on November 16, 2007, 12:15:24 am
Seven men from the majority Sunni community were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years.

But the victim was also punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car of a strange man.

On appeal, the Arab News reported that the punishment was not reduced but increased to 200 lashes and a six-month prison sentence.

The rapists also had their prison terms doubled. But the sentences are still low considering they could have faced the death penalty.
At least the rapists were actually convicted. Until reading it I was under the impression they just WALKED AWAY and all the blame was placed on the woman.

But wow, 200 lashes? I was under the impression that even ~50 could be fatal.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: kentona on November 17, 2007, 01:44:13 am
Quote from: Ash on November 16, 2007, 05:43:53 am
At least the rapists were actually convicted. Until reading it I was under the impression they just WALKED AWAY and all the blame was placed on the woman.

But wow, 200 lashes? I was under the impression that even ~50 could be fatal.
I was under the impression that it wasn't 327 B.C.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Swordfish on November 17, 2007, 04:42:27 am
Quote from: Ash on November 16, 2007, 05:43:53 am
At least the rapists were actually convicted. Until reading it I was under the impression they just WALKED AWAY and all the blame was placed on the woman.
If i remember correctly there was a story of just that happening, poor woman is all i can say.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Pepoke on November 17, 2007, 08:31:44 am
Not much to say besides thats a corrupt government right thur.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Vale on November 17, 2007, 11:17:23 am
Quote
Jesus Christ. That's one of the most horrible things I've read in a long time.

...believe me, it can get worse there.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Trujin on November 21, 2007, 06:01:46 pm
Suits her right, obey the laws of the country you live in, if not, just fuck off.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: jaller141 on November 21, 2007, 06:19:10 pm
Quote from: Trujin on November 21, 2007, 06:01:46 pm
Suits her right, obey the laws of the country you live in, if not, just fuck off.
So, if you were a woman, how would you like to get in a taxi cab and raped by 7 different men, then get 200 lashes and 6 months in prison while those guys only sit in jail from 2-10 years.
God damn though, This world is going to sex, mass murder, and sucide... Sure, we have laws here that are supposed to "Protect" people, but if the person doesn't get caught, it's kinda useless. 
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: LORd on November 21, 2007, 06:19:36 pm
That was pretty distasteful even for sarcasm Trujin.

Also this was apparently in a Finnish newspaper as well and I'm told she was with her boyfriend (the "unrelated man" the article speaks of) at the moment of the rape. Seven men walked up to the two and gang-raped them both. Now I don't have any links to stories with this little factoid but if it's indeed true then at least she wasn't lashed and jailed for "violating segregation laws" with men who forced themselves upon her (though it also entails another rape victim which is pretty bad.)
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: jamie on November 21, 2007, 06:25:08 pm
I don't know anything about the law in Saudi Arabia, or the government, so I'm not going to say anything about it.

This is just an utterly awful collection of events. Men in power beating the fuck out of a woman in every way they possibly can. That's all I really see here, an incredible amount of abuse directed at one woman born out of inadequacy, jealousy and deplorable, primal aggression. I don't even know what to say here. I don't want to go on some tirade like, "OOOH FUCKING I HOPE SOMEONE GETS THEIR DICK CHOPPED OFF", because it doesn't help anything. All I can do is sit here and fume at a keyboard. 

Also the way a couple of you guys responded to this was pretty gross.


edit: also i'm getting pretty sick of these "LOOK ANOTHER GROSS INJUSTICE" topics.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Xeno|Soft on November 21, 2007, 08:41:22 pm
um...so this title is misleading...she is not getting punished for being raped. She got punished for being with a man she had no buissness being with?
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Zeratul on November 21, 2007, 09:11:29 pm
Quote from: Xeno|Soft on November 21, 2007, 08:41:22 pm
um...so this title is misleading...she is not getting punished for being raped. She got punished for being with a man she had no buissness being with?


Oh, don't be surprised.
FlowerPower doesn't actually read the stories he posts before coming up with a reaction.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 09:34:15 pm
You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Trujin on November 21, 2007, 09:57:47 pm
Well, I partly was trying to be sarcastic, but like Jeff I don't think you should be jugding a country for it's rules and culture. It's about the same as the fact that many Europian countries don't agree with the death penalty in Amerika. In Holland you can get 2  years for murder and walk freely again. That something I also don't agree with. But well, every country has its culture and law. I don't think you should be jugding a law system or culture of a country that is far away from the western world.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Gelatinous Cube on November 21, 2007, 10:08:38 pm
Quote from: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 09:34:15 pm
You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE

I don't get what you're trying to say - that people shouldn't disagree with a culture that they are not a part of, or that there's no point in saying how terrible it is because it won't change anything?

I hope I am wrong because I really would not like to think that you think either of those things.

Being an advocator of equal rights, I find this sort of thing sickening - a victim is a victim, though breaking the state law so recklessly is bound to have repercussions.  I just think the whole thing is out of proportion to the crime.  Why not lash the men for also being in the car with an unrelated woman?  How come there were seven rapists and only four kidnap convictions?  Questions I would like answered.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Lars on November 21, 2007, 10:16:29 pm
Quote from: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 09:34:15 pm
You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.
Piracy?
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 10:22:30 pm
Quote from: Gelatinous Cube on November 21, 2007, 10:08:38 pm
I don't get what you're trying to say - that people shouldn't disagree with a culture that they are not a part of, or that there's no point in saying how terrible it is because it won't change anything?

I hope I am wrong because I really would not like to think that you think either of those things.

Being an advocator of equal rights, I find this sort of thing sickening - a victim is a victim, though breaking the state law so recklessly is bound to have repercussions.  I just think the whole thing is out of proportion to the crime.  Why not lash the men for also being in the car with an unrelated woman?  How come there were seven rapists and only four kidnap convictions?  Questions I would like answered.
No, I'm saying that if you are going to complain, then don't complain from a detached, western view based solely on your socialization rather than an objective look at the logic here.

Do I agree with the punishment? No. However, the point is, she broke the law. The law, from my western point of view, is a terrible and unequal one but it is a law in that country and that is the way it is going to be handled. I mentioned the "it won't change anything" because many of the people in this topic have attacked this with some degree of self-possession as if their western opinions are, indeed, the only correct ones. Had they said, "I believe this is a gross misinterpretation of Sharia law," then I would not have said anything. However this topic here is a question of justice, which is a very malleable and interpretative term, though some of the people in this topic don't seem to understand that and it makes me angry.

I mad the comment about research because even in the basic facts this whole article is very sparse. It is also clouded in western bias. It may appear that I am being biased myself and saying all THE WESTERN WORLD SUCKS, but I'm not. However, I will not say LOL THE WESTERN WORLD THAT PRIDES ITSELF ON TECHNOLOGY AND MONEY AND THINKS EDUCATION IS ONLY A TOOL TO GET MORE MONEY is perfect either.

The point is, if we are going to criticize this, we need to criticize it from an unbiased perspective, or at least one from which we realize that our opinions are, indeed, opinions.
Quote from: Lars on November 21, 2007, 10:16:29 pm
Piracy?
The difference in that case is the ability and willingness of the government to punish offenders.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Gelatinous Cube on November 21, 2007, 10:26:46 pm
thanks for the clarification.  I do understand what you are saying, but the likelihood is that the majority of the people who read this will have an immediate adverse reaction either through disagreeing with law interpretation or simply because they find it horrid from their point of view.  Most people state opinion as fact in most things anyway, especially on things they feel strongly about.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: kentona on November 21, 2007, 10:27:44 pm
Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 10:30:40 pm
Quote from: kentona on November 21, 2007, 10:27:44 pm
Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.
Except she wasn't jailed for being raped.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Gelatinous Cube on November 21, 2007, 10:31:38 pm
Quote from: kentona on November 21, 2007, 10:27:44 pm
Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.

she wasn't punished because she was the victim, she was punished because she broke the law herself.  It could be argued that she wouldn't have been attacked if she had obeyed the law (although of course this is no guarantee and never will be)
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jester on November 21, 2007, 10:36:28 pm
Ok, fine, they have different cultures and shit, but does that mean we CAN'T be disgusted? 200 lashes is terrible!

Ridiculous country. No country is perfect, but a lot of them are a lot fucking better than this.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 10:39:12 pm
Quote from: Jester on November 21, 2007, 10:36:28 pm
Ok, fine, they have different cultures and shit, but does that mean we CAN'T be disgusted? 200 lashes is terrible!

Ridiculous country. No country is perfect, but a lot of them are a lot fucking better than this.
Oh, I never said anything about you can't be disgusted, I just said that don't be disgusted because you think she is being jailed for being raped, and don't be disgusted and assume that there is something objectively wrong with the country.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: jamie on November 21, 2007, 10:43:03 pm
Quote from: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 09:34:15 pm
You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE

It seems like what you're saying is that depending on where you are, abusing someone can be either right or wrong. You might think that it's wrong, but that doesn't mean you should go around saying it's wrong when people who think it is right do it? Western arrogance doesn't really have much to do with this. A woman gets raped and is then punished, in an utterly humiliating and painful way, for being in the car with an unrelated male relative. I mean, first of all the law that she isn't allowed to is so disgusting it makes my head spin - this is not because I am British and therefore I must be thinking, "The way those Islamic states do it is just so WRONG!", it's because I believe this kind of inequality and violence is wrong. That's not attached to anyone else's ideology, it's something I've decided for myself. I realise it's all very complicated and I don't understand the half of it, but I am allowed to be disgusted and be as vocal as I want to be about it She just got raped by a gang and then, instead of getting sympathy, she got a whole bucketload more trauma because she broke some awful law putting herself in the situation! The point that she wouldn't have gotten raped if she wasn't in the car is very similar to she wanted to be raped because she was wearing revealing clothing (you didn't say this i read it mentioned by someone else).

It's a very different culture than the west, yeah, but so what? It's not like they are a different species, and it seems like that's what you are implying. That they couldn't possibly understand that what they are doing is just so wrong. They've got a very strong religious ideology and it determines their laws, but so did this part of the world until the people who realised how fucked up it was managed through many failed attempts and broken victories to get us to a better place, a place which is still pretty shitty a lot of the time. I don't think the kind of complacency you're advocating is really worth anything.

As for what I think shoudl be done, well christ I just don't know! I don't know of any historical precedent for the kind of ubiquitous, invasive worldwide culture clash the muslim world is having with the west just now, I mean not on this huge scale, so I can't just throw out some crazy scheme. I wouldn't know where to begin. It's too big for me right now, I don't know nearly enough about well Islam for a start,

But as far as this topic goes, which like I said I don't really feel is a very good one, I don't really see how what you are saying helps anything. You're just saying it's different what can you do? Here, it doesn't make a difference but if you start adopting that kind of attitude out in the real world where it actually could make a difference and help save someone from a lot of pain (hoho so arrogant) then it could be pretty important! If I was in any position to, I would make sure I done everything I could to help this situation get better for everyone and yeah I could only use my own concepts of right and wrong to do so, but I do believe them to be right and that isn't going to change just because they see things differently.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Dapper Swindler on November 21, 2007, 10:48:29 pm
You people like to think you're so enlightened and civilized.  But you don't even bother to rtfa before passing judgment, you just react emotionally without understanding what even went down here.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Jester on November 21, 2007, 10:49:55 pm
Quote from: Jeff on November 21, 2007, 10:39:12 pm
Oh, I never said anything about you can't be disgusted, I just said that don't be disgusted because you think she is being jailed for being raped, and don't be disgusted and assume that there is something objectively wrong with the country.
Like.. they still give people 200 lashes? For being in a stranger's car? I think that's something objectively wrong with the country. What do child rapists get out of interest?

And Dapper thanks, but I think we've covered that in the last page of replies.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Mince Wobley on November 21, 2007, 10:51:29 pm
I think this kind of thing happens because some people are just cruel and want an excuse to commit their atrocities, and then they invent crazy laws just so they can have sexual pleasure from lashing people and putting people in prisons.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Gelatinous Cube on November 21, 2007, 10:55:55 pm
Quote from: Inri Cheetos on November 21, 2007, 10:51:29 pm
I think this kind of thing happens because some people are just cruel and want an excuse to commit their atrocities, and then they invent crazy laws just so they can have sexual pleasure from lashing people and putting people in prisons.

you have the whole of humanity down to a tee, my friend  :fogetsmile:
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Lars on November 21, 2007, 11:01:53 pm
Quote from: Inri Cheetos on November 21, 2007, 10:51:29 pm
I think this kind of thing happens because some people are just cruel and want an excuse to commit their atrocities, and then they invent crazy laws just so they can have sexual pleasure from lashing people and putting people in prisons.
You know, I think I would actually get sexual pleasure from lashing a young girl. But not like, until she bleeds, but more like a couple of times. She'd have to be tied up and gagged, though.

edit: oh yeah, she'd have to be like 14-15
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: Supra Mairo on November 21, 2007, 11:19:20 pm
man lars lashing is so yesterday, get with the times.
Title: Woman gets jailed and lashed for getting raped.
Post by: LORd on November 22, 2007, 02:54:37 pm
Hahaha wow looks like my post turned this whole thread on its head.

Anyways Jeff none of the posters above me knew about the boyfriend. Everyone, myself included, initially assumed that the "strange man" whose car she was in was an euphemism made up by the judges to describe being trapped and violated in the automobile of a team of rapists. I believe many of them would revise their posts were they presented with the new info. In retrospec it was probably a pretty hasty conclusion but not exactly irrational.