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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: ase on November 16, 2007, 04:27:28 am

Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 16, 2007, 04:27:28 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/world/americas/16canada.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin


Basically, a 40-year old Polish immigrant arrived in Canada to live with his mother, start a new life, etc. He couldn't speak any English. He became very frustrated when his immigration processing had taken 10 hours, and he never got the chance to see his mother who was picking him up at the airport (she left, thinking he hadn't caught the plane on time). He started yelling in Polish for someone to help him, broke a computer, and threw a chair. The Mounties came, tasered him twice and killed him. He offered no resistance.

Being a Polish immigrant myself, I guess I am a little BIASED, but no matter what nationality, this is really frightening!
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 16, 2007, 04:29:44 am
Yes, I was going to post it but assumed it had already been posted (why?). I saw the video on the news today. It was shown at the request of the mother and was pretty fucked up. It's pretty important to note that he did not speak any English, so had no idea why he was being held for so long or any instructions given to him. The police were told this and they continued to yell at him in English for about 5 seconds before tazering the shit out of him and tackling him. When he was on the ground with two guys on him they tazered him a second time.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: KK4 on November 16, 2007, 04:33:18 am
It's actually a pretty common occurrence now, ASE. Tasers aren't "non-lethal" as everyone thinks, and the police have now been trained to use a taser even if little or no resistance is offered. My personal opinion is that it is operant conditioning to ease in the use of deadly force as a common way to deal with the people.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Kaempfer on November 16, 2007, 06:19:48 am
I think police are a bit too taser-happy, thinking it is a safe way to subdue someone immediately. Obviously this was unnecessary, and I certainly hope an investigation is launched.

That being said, I was stuck in an airport once for 12 hours and didn't do anything but wait patiently the whole time. Admittedly, I could understand what the airport and airline staff were telling me about the delays, but they were completely wrong anyways (it'll just be another half an hour, another fifteen minutes, et cetera). I don't understand why this guy's reaction was to start knocking shit over and what have you. I'm sure it's described much more violently than it actually was, but it was still a pretty bad reaction. He was obviously disoriented and there is no way that it called for a tasering (never mind a lethal tasering) and I have to feel bad for the guy, but the simple fact is that an airport is the worst place you can freak out (especially coupled with any foreign language) these days. Even a mild showing of hostility can get you removed from an airport altogether, or make you subject to searches.

I really don't understand why they had to taser him twice (or even once). It was a really godawful reaction by the police to a bad reaction by some confused guy, and it sucks. It kind of makes you miss the good old days when the cops had nightsticks and would just give you a beating if they decided to overreact instead of sending however many volts of electricity running through you.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 16, 2007, 06:39:59 am
I think police are a bit too taser-happy, thinking it is a safe way to subdue someone immediately. Obviously this was unnecessary, and I certainly hope an investigation is launched.

That being said, I was stuck in an airport once for 12 hours and didn't do anything but wait patiently the whole time. Admittedly, I could understand what the airport and airline staff were telling me about the delays, but they were completely wrong anyways (it'll just be another half an hour, another fifteen minutes, et cetera). I don't understand why this guy's reaction was to start knocking shit over and what have you. I'm sure it's described much more violently than it actually was, but it was still a pretty bad reaction. He was obviously disoriented and there is no way that it called for a tasering (never mind a lethal tasering) and I have to feel bad for the guy, but the simple fact is that an airport is the worst place you can freak out (especially coupled with any foreign language) these days. Even a mild showing of hostility can get you removed from an airport altogether, or make you subject to searches.

I really don't understand why they had to taser him twice (or even once). It was a really godawful reaction by the police to a bad reaction by some confused guy, and it sucks. It kind of makes you miss the good old days when the cops had nightsticks and would just give you a beating if they decided to overreact instead of sending however many volts of electricity running through you.

Well from the video he was throwing a few things around after he was placed in a 'secure' area. But I can only imagine what it would've been like. He was on planes for hours before hand and then to be held at the airport for half a day with no understanding of what was happening or why.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dada on November 16, 2007, 06:57:33 am
Even if a taser is an effective weapon with which to subdue people, the things are obviously completely unsafe. Plenty of people (245, according to Amnesty International) have died already as a result of being tasered, and who knows how many more people have been injured or hurt because of them? Some people have even been tasered to death while in custody or while they were already completely restrained by several policemen. There have even been accounts of children and old people being tasered, which apparently the police force doesn't consider a problem.

It's yet another weapon that the police can abuse. You know that any weapon will at some point be abused, especially when given to a force that's virtually incapable of being punished for their actions.

Call me paranoid, but considering that investigations into police taser abuse are usually performed by the same station from which the abuse originated, I wouldn't be surprised that most of these are simply feign operations used to justify the chief constable's opinion on the case.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: XxSylverxX on November 16, 2007, 07:02:40 am
in the video he is obviously on the ground incapacitated and they shock him again, in my opinion the officer should be charged with murder; it was clearly beyond the force they needed to subdue him.   

I have always been against the tasers though, at first it seemed only people real high on coke would die but then i thought about it and using drugs isnt really a good reason to kill someone. They're obviously not non lethal....just not always lethal.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 16, 2007, 07:24:34 am
Here's the video for anyone who hasn't seen it.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qHKk5qQRzL4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qHKk5qQRzL4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

It's fucking ridiculous. The cops come up to him with bulletproof vests, he throws his hands up in the air and gets tasered. He rolls on the ground in what is obviously horrific pain for a good 30-60seconds, then gets tasered again for no reason. Finally, if you continue watching after the 2nd taser, a different cop comes up and starts beating him with his baton! During this whole time, everyone can be heard saying "He speaks Russian" or "We need a Russian translator." Not only does everyone make a random assumption about what language he's speaking, but no one actually does anything to help the language barrier.

P.S. For those of you curious, he's pretty much just swearing in Polish, saying things like "Fuck" and "Fuck, I (indecipherable) accuse you (indecipherable) and all of you." and "Good, Good."
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Sarah on November 16, 2007, 07:47:37 am
During this whole time, everyone can be heard saying "He speaks Russian" or "We need a Russian translator." Not only does everyone make a random assumption about what language he's speaking, but no one actually does anything to help the language barrier.
I don't disagree with you about how bad this was, but this statement is pretty ridiculous. What do you expect these people to do? They're just bystanders. Most people can't tell the difference between RUSSIAN AND GERMAN let alone a pretty obscure language like POLISH (it may not seem that obscure but uh... I am pretty sure most people don't realise how many polskis are around here). They were in an airport for a short amount of time (that this part was taking place). Do you think maybe they should've hired some sort of translator online and got him to come down and decipher what he was saying while he was freaking out? It doesn't matter what the bystanders were saying; they couldn't do anything. It's completely unfair to blame them in any way.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 16, 2007, 07:54:08 am
You misunderstood me: I wasn't accusing the bystanders of having a duty to do anything. I was accusing the police officers of not carrying out what they could be heard saying on the video: Finding a translator.

I guess I phrased it kind of awkwardly, but mostly that first sentence was me being surprised that just because ONE person decided HEY THAT SOUNDS LIKE RUSSIAN, that everyone jumped on the bandwagon (including the cops) and said YEAH HE DEFINITELY SPEAKS RUSSIAN, LETS GET SOMEONE RUSSIAN TO HELP.... oh wait.... nm.. *TASE*

Edit: I'm also fairly certain that police organizations in LARGE cities like Vancouver are supposed to have connections to all the necessary resources for any given situation. I mean, I don't expect small city in the middle of nowhere to have a translator on call, but this is one of the largest cities in Canada we're talking about. Plus, Polish-speaking people aren't exactly RARE in Canada from what I've heard (lol Bart)
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Hundley on November 16, 2007, 09:55:41 am
hey where the fuck are all the people that routinely come into topics like this and say ITS ONLY A TASER, TASERS DON'T KILL; THAT ANNOYING ASSHOLE DESERVED IT ANYWAY, I WOULD HAVE TASER'D HIM 6 TIMES MORE


also ase i have had it up to here with your polish nationalism
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Kaempfer on November 16, 2007, 06:52:30 pm
After about thirty seconds of that video, I decided I didn't want to watch some guy get murdered so I stopped it.

Russian and Polish don't really sound that much alike, to me. I don't speak either, but I could probably tell the difference between the two. I assume the guy had SOME knowledge of English (like, really basic, it's hard not to these days) and someone could have made calming gestures while using really simple words at him instead of killing him.

Vancouver is an extremely multicultural city and it would have taken them five minutes to find a translator. He had just gotten OFF a plane, so he obviously didn't have a gun or anything, so they could have just stood there pointing their tasers at him instead of shooting him twice.

It's possible that the second tasering was by accident or something, but it was still unnecessary to do it even once.

Oh, and konix raises a good point about what dickheads people who work at airports usually are. I know they work long-ass shifts with annoying people coming in all day, but they still come off as complete jerks. My entire family is very courteous and friendly, and generally speaking everyone but the people who work directly for airlines (like airport security, customs, et cetera) are assholes to us regardless. I can only imagine how bad it would be for some guy who has just waited 20 hours and doesn't speak English.

It's really sad that some confused guy died for no reason on his way to trying to make a better life. I hope they spark a big investigation (or redouble the efforts of any previous investigation) into taser usage so that at least some good can come out of this.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: alucard on November 16, 2007, 07:02:28 pm
I guess he was just shocked to be in Canada.

zing
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Mateui on November 16, 2007, 08:16:52 pm
Even if they had got a Russian translator he most likely would be able to communicate with them because judging by his age and the Polish education system back in his youth students learned Russian anyway. And even if not the translator would be able to find out that no, he doesn't speak Russian they might know that Polish is the language they should communicate in.

Bringing the police in was uncalled for. I'm sure the airport had Polish speaking employees. (They must have a LOT airlines counter). They really should have tried the communication approach instead of using force. At that point he wasn't harming anyone. Sure, he was causing physical damage to the airport, but he likely was extremely tired, hadn't slept and eaten for 10 hours and was confused and bewildered. Getting an electric shock under these conditions is fatal. He must have gone arrthymic and died of cardiac arrest.

 :fogetnah:
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Revolutionist on November 16, 2007, 08:42:35 pm
Uncalled for police brutality yet again... its happened to Arab and Iranian students in the States and now to a Polish immigrant..

Any charges going to be filed against these cops?
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: kentona on November 16, 2007, 09:05:09 pm
Also, there were two people who video taped this (not sure who's footage that video's is).  One guy who video taped this with a good camera willinging offered his camera as evidence, on condition that the camera and footage was returned in 1 week.  RCMP have refused to return the footage and now that man is suing the RCMP for that footage.  He may have been successfull and that is why we are seeing the footage on youtube (?).


Very shady dealings going on with the RCMP here, in any case.  Taser a guy, twice, he dies, they grab footage, and do not return footage as required.


EDIT:
footage article:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071026/taser_video_071030/20071030?hub=TopStories
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Lars on November 17, 2007, 12:43:50 am
I assume the guy had SOME knowledge of English
In Eastern European countries languages like German and French far surpass English as the most important second language. English really isn't that widespread once you get into the heart of Europe. It's like assuming an American is capable of understanding some basic French/German/Spanish, all of which are more widespread than English in central-Europe. I'm not even sure if some of the countries even has English in the school.

But even here in Norway there are people incapable of speaking a single word of English, and we have an old tradition of learning English in the school (since Great Britain has been our closest trade-ally for centuries). Seriously though, English is pretty useless outside of the West and Africa and the former British colonies... Like not useless but as useful as German is to the average American.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: GirlBones on November 17, 2007, 01:43:44 am
When I first read this topic, I was too pissed off to make a reasonable post. I came back to see if there were any updates, and I started watching the video only to realize that I didn't want to watch this poor man get murdered by the fucking cops.

I am so mad right now. I follow the Mexican-American immigration issue very closely because of my proximity to the border, and it's really upsetting to see that the system is so fucked up in other places as well.

Can I just say that I FUCKING HATE THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE I HATE THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE. 
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on November 17, 2007, 01:52:56 am
Yeah, Lars is right. Teaching English in schools started around the fall of communism in eastern European countries(10-15 years ago) and the level of these teachings is really low/bad. I'm from one of those countries and I didn't get any English classes during elementary school and even in high school they only covered the basics. (as you can see)

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic. I agree with everyone and I'm surprised something like this would happen in Canada.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: GirlBones on November 17, 2007, 02:03:28 am
If you're watching the video, pay attention about 20 seconds in when he has the folding table and he's standing in the doorway. He's breathing really heavily and he just looks like he's about to start crying.

All he did was break some fucking STUFF. I know that STUFF is important to a lot of people, especially authorities, but FUCK.

Also, I just watched a video where some RCMP big-wig was saying "well, it's only one point of view blah blah blah."

Another little factoid: before the video went public, the RCMP stated that the Polish guy fought with the officers. FUCK THAT. That is such a huge fucking lie and whoever was responsible for it should AT LEAST lose their job, although jail would be a more appropriate punishment for such a blatant fucking abuse of the public trust. SOMEBODY FUCKING DIED YOU DONT LIE ABOUT SHIT LIKE THAT. I am so mad.

Also Also, In the video that ASE posted, you can hear the following exchange VERBATIM as the officers are arriving:

Officer #1: "May I taser him?"

Officer #2: "Yes"

HE WASN'T EVEN DOING ANYTHING WHEN THEY GOT THERE.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Mama Luigi on November 17, 2007, 02:19:54 am
This is a tragedy in every sense of the word. Rest in peace, Robert Dziekanski :(
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 03:36:41 am
He started yelling in Polish for someone to help him, broke a computer, and threw a chair. The Mounties came, tasered him twice and killed him. He offered no resistance.

Being a Polish immigrant myself, I guess I am a little BIASED, but no matter what nationality, this is really frightening!

Yeah.... tasering irate immigrants. The end of days are nigh...

You know... here in the states.. you can get shot just for putting your hands in your pocket while confronting the police. Tasering... despite the incidents we've had here recently (including a death) I still think this is a better alternative than getting shot.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 17, 2007, 07:38:05 am
You know... here in the states.. you can get shot just for putting your hands in your pocket while confronting the police. Tasering... despite the incidents we've had here recently (including a death) I still think this is a better alternative than getting shot.
what?

did you even read the article or watch the video? This isn't about TASERING vs. GUNS WHO WILL WIN GOGOGOGOGOGO

How the fuck is tasering a man to death who hasn't done anything to cause anyone harm BETTER THAN GETTING SHOT?? You better not be implying that SHOOTING him could have been a possiblity in this situation......... but "*pfffeewww* THANK GOD THEY ONLY USED THE TASERS *pat on the back*"

Seriously, I don't understand what you're trying to convey here... how is putting your hands high up in the air and backing up against a wall anything remotely similar to putting your hands in your pockets or giving off a sense of DANGER to the authorities?
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: tomohawkjoe on November 17, 2007, 07:55:18 am
This is fucking ridiculous, there was absolutely no need what so ever to even go that far. I don't even think a taser should of even been considered in this type of situation. I see not one event that could of justified using a taser.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Warlin on November 17, 2007, 08:00:46 am
See? This is why the crime rate in canada is so low. No one fucks with Canadian Bacon.
Edit:Worth it.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Pepoke on November 17, 2007, 08:08:12 am
Well the main problem with chainers post is that this isnt a thread about guns, I wouldnt want to get any deeper than that...

But yeah this is terrible. Now I can really only understand tazer use if the person to be tazed pulls a weapon and attemps to hurt someone, or something around those lines. I think these Canadians where using the tazers based on how dangerous they thought they were, rather than by regulation of use. But dont misinterperet me...Im not trying to defend them, because this was incredibly foolish for them to do. Like tomohawkjoe said, this definitely wasnt a taze appropriate situation.
I guess Canadians dont deal with crap often enough to act correctly when it happens. Shame.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: GirlBones on November 17, 2007, 09:46:06 am
Seriously, I don't understand what you're trying to convey here... how is putting your hands high up in the air and backing up against a wall anything remotely similar to putting your hands in your pockets or giving off a sense of DANGER to the authorities?

It doesn't even matter whether he was being a threat to the officers because they fucking knew they were going to taser him before they even approached him. You can hear in the video a cop saying "MAY I TASER HIM" before they even get to where he is.

Now I can really only understand tazer use if the person to be tazed pulls a weapon and attemps to hurt someone, or something around those lines. I think these Canadians where using the tazers based on how dangerous they thought they were, rather than by regulation of use.

If you pull out a weapon the police use their guns, not tasers.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dada on November 17, 2007, 10:56:29 am
It doesn't matter much to me to know that they "could" have taken out a gun instead of a taser. In the end, they were still physically assaulting the man, and it just so happened that they actually managed to kill him this time. There have been plenty of incidents that involved someone innocent getting tasered multiple times; it's still assault, and it still reinforces the feeling that policemen are unintelligent bullies. They act without giving the situation any rational thought and then either go mad and start beating people up or they blindly follow the rules without considering whether they should apply at all.

You can see this everywhere in the world, too. It's like they need to do something incredibly lame every once in a while to remind us that you'd better cooperate whenever they approach you, because they have the ability to make your life a living hell if you don't.

EDIT: (http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;id=2901;type=avatar)
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Mama Luigi on November 17, 2007, 05:02:54 pm
I don't understand why they would have had to tackle him though. Good god, the man was incredibly irated with good reason. The best thing the cops could have done is tried to comfort him and get him somewhere where they could translate what he was trying to say. Shooting him with a taser gun is the last thing I could think of to do to this man besides shooting him. What did he do? You taser someone when your life is threatened or in a situation where it will be a great challenge to get the person to cooperate. Hands in the air pretty much universally means you surrender.

I just don't understand this. Each one of these "cops" deserve jail time.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 05:41:11 pm
I couldn't care less what you guys are bitching about. My point was the guy was throwing a fit... noone could tell what he was on about... and that anything was up for grabs at that point. They could have responded in several different ways... but all they did was taser him.  It's unfortunate that he died... but that doesn't make the actions the police took any more excessive. If I am in an airport or government office and I see some guy screaming gibberish, throwing chairs, and kicking in computers... I would hope they would taser his ass too.

Quote

Does it matter what his situation was? What if he was some nut job with a bomb strapped to his chest, and the police didn't find out until after they tasered him. I bet you would have thought their actions where justified then... if you even cared about how the police got to him at all.

Quote
What the fuck does this even mean? What difference does it make if you get tasered or shot if you end up dead? Why should we accept the fact that the only options that the police can use nowadays have to involve either guns or tasers? Like I said in my first post, why couldn't they have just maced him instead?
What if he died to the reaction he had to mace? What of he went into a coma from the other non lethal solutions police use to apprehend people (which includes chokes/ holds). Like I said, it's unfortunate, but the fact that someone dies does not mean the actions someone took where excessive. But it's nice to complain after the fact... isn't it. I understand that he offered no resistance when he was being arrested... but that does not negate the violent behavior he had already shown. Police respond to you based on the actions you already took... and for not being able to understand what this man was saying... I say the actions they took where reasonable.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dragonx on November 17, 2007, 05:58:22 pm
I couldn't care less what you guys are bitching about. My point was the guy was throwing a fit... noone could tell what he was on about... and that anything was up for grabs at that point. They could have responded in several different ways... but all they did was taser him.  It's unfortunate that he died... but that doesn't make the actions the police took any more excessive. If I am in an airport or government office and I see some guy screaming gibberish, throwing chairs, and kicking in computers... I would hope they would taser his ass too.
He raised his hands, he wasn't putting up resistance after the police came in, he stopped doing everything he was doing THAT WAS SO BAD.
So yes, they had no reason to taser him at all, he stopped, he was being submissive to the police, but they still took the action they were supposed to if he was RESISTING(he wasnt) THE ARREST.

Does it matter what his situation was? What if he was some nut job with a bomb strapped to his chest, and the police didn't find out until after they tasered him. I bet you would have thought their actions where justified then.
What if he died to the reaction he had to mace? What of he went into a coma from the other non lethal solutions police use to apprehend people (which includes chokes/ holds). Like I said, it's unfortunate, but the fact that someone dies does not mean the actions someone took where excessive. But it's nice to complain after the fact... isn't it.
He rasied his hands, therefore, hey look if I raise my hands I will trigger the bomb and kill everyone(I always thought raising your hands means hey i give up). The mace has a much less chance of killing someone, hey breathing in shit that makes you cough and wheeze compared to electric shock, I'd take the first one. Also, coma > death, since a coma from a choke hold I dont think would have a chance of putting him in one for 10 years.

It is complaining after the fact yes, but he was being submissive during the fact, which hey look, we can complain about too.

Shut up, you are an idiot.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 06:22:12 pm
It must be nice being white. Really. You guys obviously have better experiances/ expectations than I do.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 17, 2007, 06:27:44 pm
So basically, because you're not white, you not only EXPECT police injustice towards you, but you also pass it off as being  "justified."

Way to stick up for your race  :thumbsupbuddy:
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dragonx on November 17, 2007, 06:32:44 pm
It must be nice being white. Really. You guys obviously have better experiances/ expectations than I do.
Shut up, you are an idiot.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dada on November 17, 2007, 06:56:37 pm
Let's not resilience the argument to calling each other names.

That said, I agree with Konix that the cops should have just maced him. He'd have suffered less.

(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/Mace.jpg)
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: JohnnyCasil on November 17, 2007, 07:21:18 pm
I would just like to contribute this:
UN Use Of Force Guidelines (http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm)

Some select quotes
Quote
4. Law enforcement officials, in carrying out their duty, shall, as far as possible, apply non-violent means before resorting to the use of force and firearms. They may use force and firearms only if other means remain ineffective or without any promise of achieving the intended result.
Quote
5. Whenever the lawful use of force and firearms is unavoidable, law enforcement officials shall:

(a) Exercise restraint in such use and act in proportion to the seriousness of the offence and the legitimate objective to be achieved;

(b) Minimize damage and injury, and respect and preserve human life;

(c) Ensure that assistance and medical aid are rendered to any injured or affected persons at the earliest possible moment;

(d) Ensure that relatives or close friends of the injured or affected person are notified at the earliest possible moment.
Quote
7. Governments shall ensure that arbitrary or abusive use of force and firearms by law enforcement officials is punished as a criminal offence under their law.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Grin Tree on November 17, 2007, 07:31:55 pm
/insert tasteless Don't Tase Me Bro comment



Anyway, this is pretty bad.  I watched the video and the guy was stabbing him with a baton even when he
was already apprehended.  Wow!
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 17, 2007, 08:01:37 pm
I would just like to contribute this:
UN Use Of Force Guidelines (http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm)

Some select quotes

Obviously these were libertarian cops: they don't believe in the UN.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 08:17:44 pm
So basically, because you're not white, you not only EXPECT police injustice towards you, but you also pass it off as being  "justified."

Way to stick up for your race  :thumbsupbuddy:

Actually, I stopped caring about discussion when I read....

Quote
Shut up, you are an idiot.

Quote
Of course it would be justified if he had a fucking bomb strapped on his chest

And... well... there was another one... where someone said something along the lines of "does it matter whether or not you where tasered or shot if you still died". There is just no point discussing this matter with self righteous kiddies crying POLICE BRUTALITY just because some random immigrant gets tasered in an airport for throwing a fit. They obviously have no experience with how law enforcement officers work... and they are spewing the most ridiculous shit I will never hear outside of the internet.... so why care? This sort of thing is standard procedure as far as the situation was concerned (especially considering how it was an airport)... and the fact that someone tried to push protocols/ guidelines into the discussion only further proves to me how little you guys actually know about what goes on. You where never up in arms about the way things are handled on a daily basis... but now you care since this one situation got hyped in the internets? Especially when they go as far as invalidating my response beacuse it did not 'disprove their point'? That they proved me wrong? And theses shut ins call me the idiot. To that I laugh.

Way to go in contributing to the discussion though :fogetcool:
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 08:24:58 pm
How else do I respond to reactionary flamers who's words hold no weight in real world situations? If this discussion was going anywhere... then I'd have some valid responses to write up. But this isn't happening now... is it? And it's not because I am backing out because 'I am running low on ammo' on this argument. No.. it is because I see your opinions as completely invalid... making this a waste of time... not a discussion.

And btw, you 3 did it first.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: ase on November 17, 2007, 08:36:59 pm
Guys, its OK

Chainer's been in run-ins with the PO-LEES many many many times

As a safety precaution, he has memorized the protocols regarding what and when cops can and can't do to him
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 08:39:58 pm
Quote
It's a fucking topic on gamingworld. People post their thoughts. What, we have to be trained professionals in law enforcement before our words have any merit? I'm not allowed to call out police brutality after the cops taser and murder an unarmed man who had his hands up in the air because I am not 100% fully educated in police protocol?

No.. you don't. But you are pushing some ridiculous arguments to a person who does in fact have experience on both ends of the law. To be honest.. I can't believe a lot of what I've heard in this topic. I really can't... to a point to thinking you guys are simply trolling me.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: GirlBones on November 17, 2007, 09:17:53 pm
The point remains, chainer, that your position on this matter is absolutely ludicrous.

There is no way that the actions of these officers was justified. Of course there are situations when the po need to use force, but this was not one of them and the officers and the people responsible for the cover up need to face some sort of consequences for their actions.

IMO, the best punishment would be a public beratement and 1,000 hours of community service.
Title: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser
Post by: dada on November 17, 2007, 09:43:04 pm
I would just like to contribute this:
UN Use Of Force Guidelines (http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm)

Some select quotes
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4. Law enforcement officials, in carrying out their duty, shall, as far as possible, apply non-violent means before resorting to the use of force and firearms. They may use force and firearms only if other means remain ineffective or without any promise of achieving the intended result.
Quote
5. Whenever the lawful use of force and firearms is unavoidable, law enforcement officials shall:

(a) Exercise restraint in such use and act in proportion to the seriousness of the offence and the legitimate objective to be achieved;

(b) Minimize damage and injury, and respect and preserve human life;

(c) Ensure that assistance and medical aid are rendered to any injured or affected persons at the earliest possible moment;

(d) Ensure that relatives or close friends of the injured or affected person are notified at the earliest possible moment.
Quote
7. Governments shall ensure that arbitrary or abusive use of force and firearms by law enforcement officials is punished as a criminal offence under their law.
And with that, I feel this topic might come to an end, because the discussion isn't going the way it should anymore, and I doubt this will fix itself.