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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 02:52:22 pm

Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 02:52:22 pm
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/A5E1FF8453EF5C2586257394005C3087?OpenDocument

For the lazy:

This is just... terrible. The justice system no longer functions it seems! "An eye for an eye"? Fuck that shit, this is equivilent to "An arm and a leg for a fingernail"
Their jailing of this kid would have been reasonable if the sentence was a few years AT MOST yet they sentenced him for SIXTY FUCKING YEARS.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: r on November 16, 2007, 02:56:12 pm
are you saying that

if you rape and abuse a person he will smile and laugh and thank you afterwards
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 02:57:51 pm
Given the nature of his crime I find it difficult to care.
I mean, it's not just the kidnapping, physical and sexual assault, but his attitude towards it ("she MADE me do it.")
He's clearly a danger to society, although sentencing him like an adult may be somewhat excessive. On the other hand, he IS 15, so he isn't exactly going to develop empathy in what, 3 years or so.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: DarkPriest on November 16, 2007, 03:00:47 pm
He can rot for an eternity for all I care. Kidnapped, raped and abused a 6 year old? No compassion from me.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 03:04:58 pm
are you saying that

if you rape and abuse a person he will smile and laugh and thank you afterwards

no

I am just saying that sixty years is TOO MUCH
Given the nature of his crime I find it difficult to care.
I mean, it's not just the kidnapping, physical and sexual assault, but his attitude towards it ("she MADE me do it.")
He's clearly a danger to society, although sentencing him like an adult may be somewhat excessive. On the other hand, he IS 15, so he isn't exactly going to develop empathy in what, 3 years or so.
The kid needs a straightjacket, not a sixty year old sentence in jail.



EDIT: JUST FYI, I do not sympathise with the kid that raped the girl. I think that what he did was bad and he deserved a punishment but(I will say it again) SIXTY YEARS IS TOO MUCH FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: r on November 16, 2007, 03:07:24 pm
fatty you are a horrible person i hope you get kidnapped and raped
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Jester on November 16, 2007, 03:25:28 pm
well, we cant kill him, and putting him in a sanitarium is too much freedom for someone who would do this

so yeah what else could we do? a sanitarium is easy to fake your way out of (unless you are ACTUALLY CRAZY but this kid is obviously just evil and cruel rather than obviously crazy) so yeah hed be back and probably kidnapping again if we go that route.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Trujin on November 16, 2007, 03:26:15 pm
Hmm, poor kid, if he lived in Holland he would get like 2/4 months x0.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 03:39:30 pm
no

I am just saying that sixty years is TOO MUCHThe kid needs a straightjacket, not a sixty year old sentence in jail.



EDIT: JUST FYI, I do not sympathise with the kid that raped the girl. I think that what he did was bad and he deserved a punishment but(I will say it again) SIXTY YEARS IS TOO MUCH FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
Yeah, keep crying about the 15 year old.
I mean, seriously, the girl is SIX years old, the boy is FIFTEEN. If he doesn't know better at 15 then he's not going to know better at, say, 18. If they gave him LIFE I wouldn't have any sympathy for him. He deserves EVERY. FUCKING. YEAR. of his sentence. There is NO reason whatsoever why his sentence should be lightened.

Just for fun, let's see what this kid inflicted to get this OH SO HARSH PUNISHMENT:
Quote
From her hospital bed at St. Louis Children's Hospital two days after the assault, the victim picked out Burnett from a school yearbook picture. She had half an ear torn off, a lascerated liver, a skull fracture and bruises from the top of her head to her thighs.
 
    She told police she couldn't walk after the attack. She crawled through a hole in a fence near railroad tracks but could go no further and, as night descended in woods near her house, she tried to cover herself with leaves. A police officer found her the next morning after a massive neighborhood search.
He should rot in hell and you should go there with him for suggesting his sentence was too harsh. You don't do this shit to a fucking 6 year old (or to anyone, for that matter). You're probably thinking he's not going to have much of a life because of what he did to her. Good, because she may not either.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 16, 2007, 03:54:21 pm
ROT IN JAIL!!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 16, 2007, 04:00:24 pm
wasn't the boy 13 when he did it?
I don't mean to say he shouldn't be punished, but it's like seeing a 8 year old rape a 6 year old and give him prison foir life.
although people can be way different from eachother at 13
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 04:02:49 pm
wasn't the boy 13 when he did it?
I don't mean to say he shouldn't be punished, but it's like seeing a 8 year old rape a 6 year old and give him prison foir life.
although people can be way different from eachother at 13
OK, I'll admit to that oversight.
Still, 2 years later he shows absolutely no remorse and even claims that she made him do it.
Not to mention he didn't just rape her (which would have been bad enough), he physically assaulted her to a large extent (as I pointed out in my previous point).
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 16, 2007, 04:08:37 pm
How do you know that he's showing no remorse? And how do you know that he's not just making shitty excuses because he's not mature enough to take full responsibility for his actions?

Honestly it is fucking unnerving reading some of these posts. Granted that it's a shitty crime but holy shit we are talking 60 years. Are we supposed to completely rule out rehabilitation simply because he's a rapist?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 04:11:47 pm
All I know is what I read in the story.

Quote
Testimony this morning disclosed that Burnett had blamed, in part, the 6-year-old for his own misfortune and had denied any sexual assaults in a recent interview with a state employee, even though he had pleaded guilty on Aug. 10 of sodomy and attempted rape, along with child kidnapping and assault.

Seems to me blaming the victim demonstrates a lack of remorse.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 16, 2007, 04:15:30 pm
Seems to me like my post still applies. You're making assumptions about his character based on nothing.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 04:23:00 pm
All I've said about his character is:
1) He committed a pretty horrific crime.
2) He lacks remorse.
3) Based on this, he deserves whatever he gets.

I make my assumptions based on the article says, since I'm not about to fly out to St Louis, peer over court records, and interview the parties involved. Tough if you don't like my conclusions, but I don't think I'm being irrational by any means.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 04:38:46 pm
I am going to be honest with you, I did not really read the article that well because my mind was set on "Holyshit, sixty years sentence is too much for this!"... but then again the other kid suffered greatly, so I guess he can be punished... but how? If he's crazy, then a sanatorium would indeed be an easy way out, just like Jester said. If they put him in jail for sixty years, they might aswell give him life in prison because he will most likely die there anyway.


I must admit, I am an idiot, but so are you Zeratul.  I pointed it out for you. I do not feel pity for the kid nor do I feel sad that he is sentenced like that but that doesn't mean that sixty years is an over-the-top sentence to begin with. I already regret making this topic because people like you think that this is one of those "*LINK*. DISCUSS." topics where trolls like yourself can come in here and start flamewars.


CONCLUSION: This is a fucked up issue in every way you look at it. I rest my case as I do not know what else to say about this issue anymore.


Also, kudos to Drule for not posting crap like the most of you have been doing so far.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 04:42:00 pm
I didn't flame anyone. I stated my opinions on the topic being discussed. I thought that's what forums were for.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Mince Wobley on November 16, 2007, 04:43:06 pm
well, we cant kill him, and putting him in a sanitarium is too much freedom for someone who would do this

so yeah what else could we do? a sanitarium is easy to fake your way out of (unless you are ACTUALLY CRAZY but this kid is obviously just evil and cruel rather than obviously crazy) so yeah hed be back and probably kidnapping again if we go that route.

But don't people in sanitariums get ECT and take mind controlling drugs every day?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ayolark on November 16, 2007, 04:55:28 pm
The thing that I find bizarre about this, is that actual pedophiles (those who actually above the age of 18), who do not confess to their crimes, and who do such terrible things (save the beatings, I assume) on many different occasions, don't get nearly as much time as a single (albeit extreme) offense on the part of a 13 year old.  He gets 60 years in jail for one particularly vicious crime, perpertrated as a minor, and other, full grown adults who do similar things, to a lesser degree but on different occasions, can wind up with less than 10 years in jail (in fact, sometimes it is less than 2 years).  It's just a little extreme of a punishment.  Then again, let the punishment fit the crime, I suppose...
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Stranglehanz on November 16, 2007, 05:07:52 pm
How do you know that he's showing no remorse? And how do you know that he's not just making shitty excuses because he's not mature enough to take full responsibility for his actions?

I know i made up some pretty shitty excuses for things I did when I was 13.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 16, 2007, 05:43:12 pm
This is just... terrible. The justice system no longer functions it seems! "An eye for an eye"? Fuck that shit, this is equivilent to "An arm and a leg for a fingernail"[/b].

Quote
kidnapping, beating and sexually assaulting

Shut the fuck up fatty. You don't know how bad he messed the girl's head up by doing this. Don't you dare compare 60 years of an offender to the life of an innocent victim.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: alucard on November 16, 2007, 05:46:45 pm
I'd say put him in a federal prison for 5 to 10 years and let the inmates have their way with his tight ass, see how he likes it.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: post on November 16, 2007, 05:58:46 pm
Well.. that was his life.  By the time he gets out, he will probably kill himself.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Kaempfer on November 16, 2007, 06:56:57 pm
Well.. that was his life.  By the time he gets out, he will probably kill himself.

Good.

He raped and nearly beat to death a 6 year old girl when he was 13; when I was 13 I was just figuring out that my dick did something magical if I rubbed it long enough.

I'm glad he got 60 years. He is obviously a danger to the community and an asshole to boot. I could MAYBE understand if it was just the sexual abuse; when you're 13 you might have the excuse of not realizing what a godawful thing that is, but the severe (nearly fatal by the sounds of it) beating AND the sexual assault AND the fact that he said she had it coming AND the fact that he wasn't bawling his little eyes out when he was sentenced to 60 years of jail time makes me think he is completely messed up.

Fuck this guy. I think Ayolark brought up a good point though; there should be much more serious punishments for paedophilia, especially repeat offenders.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: wilikeh on November 16, 2007, 07:30:11 pm
60 years is too long for any juvenile. we don't know anything about his environment: how the kid was raised, why hed do something like this, etc. there is a reason there are protections for children in the system, because children aren't just born with fucked up values in their heads. sure, the report tells us he feels no remorse, so obviously he's been fucked up somehow.

edit:

the mere fact that this guy is so fucked up should not merit the response "LOCK HIM UP FOREVER" but "HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS HAPPEN TO A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD?". locking this kid up for 60 years puts a band aid on a festering wound. psychoanalyze this fuck and figure out what is wrong.

i am not saying he should be slapped on the wrist, this kid needs severe mental help and needs A LOT of time in a prison system. i'm not one to decide how long. but 60 years is not worth taxpayer's money. and it wastes another life.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Parker on November 16, 2007, 07:51:56 pm
Good.

He raped and nearly beat to death a 6 year old girl when he was 13; when I was 13 I was just figuring out that my dick did something magical if I rubbed it long enough.

I'm glad he got 60 years. He is obviously a danger to the community and an asshole to boot. I could MAYBE understand if it was just the sexual abuse; when you're 13 you might have the excuse of not realizing what a godawful thing that is, but the severe (nearly fatal by the sounds of it) beating AND the sexual assault AND the fact that he said she had it coming AND the fact that he wasn't bawling his little eyes out when he was sentenced to 60 years of jail time makes me think he is completely messed up.

Fuck this guy.
I agree completely.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 16, 2007, 07:54:36 pm
Yeah, I'm in agreeance with the 60 years is too long thing. I do think that there is no excuse for what he did and he should be punished, regardless of why he did it... but this is his entire life. Do you want to pay for something you did for your entire life? I think he should go through some serious psychological testing, and be forced to pay for what he did meanwhile... but not for 60 years.

Once again, I don't wish to stand up for this kid because he performed a truly monsterous act. I just don't get 60 years. That will do absolutely nothing for him. And then what, when he's 75 he will be released with no money, no friends, no job experience, no chance of anything good ever happening for him. He will still be paying for his entire life.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: ImmortalDreamer on November 16, 2007, 07:58:38 pm
How about we "LOCK HIM UP FOREVER" AND psychoanalyze the little bastard.

That being said, I think he got what he deserved. There is NO excuse for what he did.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 16, 2007, 07:59:04 pm
Also (I assume someone will post between this and my last post, if not, sorry for double posting)

Rapists and murderers don't even get this long. Paedophiles don't even get this long. How can you justify treating an immature, senseless child worse than you would someone who consciously does this EXACT SAME SHIT knowing FULL WELL how terrible it is.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 08:03:10 pm
Shut the fuck up fatty. You don't know how bad he messed the girl's head up by doing this. Don't you dare compare 60 years of an offender to the life of an innocent victim.
Read all of my posts on this topic first.
Good.

He raped and nearly beat to death a 6 year old girl when he was 13; when I was 13 I was just figuring out that my dick did something magical if I rubbed it long enough.

I'm glad he got 60 years. He is obviously a danger to the community and an asshole to boot. I could MAYBE understand if it was just the sexual abuse; when you're 13 you might have the excuse of not realizing what a godawful thing that is, but the severe (nearly fatal by the sounds of it) beating AND the sexual assault AND the fact that he said she had it coming AND the fact that he wasn't bawling his little eyes out when he was sentenced to 60 years of jail time makes me think he is completely messed up.

Fuck this guy. I think Ayolark brought up a good point though; there should be much more serious punishments for paedophilia, especially repeat offenders.
How do you know that he's showing no remorse? And how do you know that he's not just making shitty excuses because he's not mature enough to take full responsibility for his actions?

Honestly it is fucking unnerving reading some of these posts. Granted that it's a shitty crime but holy shit we are talking 60 years. Are we supposed to completely rule out rehabilitation simply because he's a rapist?
These are the two posts I agree most with so far, by the way.


I just can't stress this enough, THIS IS NOT A TOPIC TO SYMPATHISE FOR THE RAPIST!
The real issue here is wether or not the justice system is fucked up because they sentence a kid for sixty years while they let real pedophiles go after a decade(maybe a year or two more) AT MOST.

Tell me this: In what way do you think this is just and fair?
Why sentence a might-become-pedophile currently-being-fucked-up kid like that and yet don't AT LEAST do the same for adults that commit the same crime? Men that beat their wives, parents abusing their children, child molesters, they all get away, one way or another. Those people should get AT LEAST LIFE IN JAIL if this kid has to serve a sixty year sentence. Hell, just go ahead and arrest them in advance if that's how you want it!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 16, 2007, 08:08:04 pm
I'm not about to fly out to St Louis, peer over court records, and interview the parties involved. Tough if you don't like my conclusions, but I don't think I'm being irrational by any means.
Then don't make any remarks. It doesn't serve any purpose at all other than contributing to the monstrous image everyone are giving him in order to justify their rabid posts. He's just a kid, and there's no good reason to lock him up for 60 years.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Vellfire on November 16, 2007, 08:13:44 pm
Part of me feels like they're going to suddenly just say "JUST KIDDING" after he serves a normal amount of time and let him go.  Making him think he has to spend the rest of his life in jail would probably give him a pretty damn good reality check.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on November 16, 2007, 08:17:31 pm
Quote
These are the two posts I agree most with so far, by the way.

Have you seen kaempfer's first sentence? I think it's totally the opposite to what you were saying.

edit: i mean this one:

"I'm glad he got 60 years. He is obviously a danger to the community and an asshole to boot. "
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 08:29:48 pm
Whosoever said I only speak from one side of the argument?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 16, 2007, 08:46:43 pm
Then don't make any remarks.
I'm not going to remain silent just because you don't like what I have to say. The fact of the matter is that the subject was brought up and all I did was express an opinion on the subject which you didn't like. I don't care whether you agree with what I have to say, and I don't think that it's important to begin with. I'm entitled to state my opinion and I resent the implication that if I don't express a whiny boo-hoo sentiment towards the boy's sentence for his crime then my opinion has no right to be expressed.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: GirlBones on November 16, 2007, 08:56:17 pm
I don't think it's fair that he was sentenced to sixty years, but at the same time I have a hard time giving a damn.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cho on November 16, 2007, 08:58:22 pm
Quote
well, we cant kill him, and putting him in a sanitarium is too much freedom for someone who would do this

so yeah what else could we do? a sanitarium is easy to fake your way out of (unless you are ACTUALLY CRAZY but this kid is obviously just evil and cruel rather than obviously crazy) so yeah hed be back and probably kidnapping again if we go that route.

Its generally not easy to fake your way out of a sanitarium, especially for someone who's being locked up at 15. Also, given the nature of his crime, he would be locked up in a secure forensic medical facility that's essentially a maximum security prison for crazy people that doesn't focus on rehabilitation.

In any case, people sentenced to mental facilities are typically locked up longer than they would be if they were sent to prison.

Quote
Why sentence a might-become-pedophile currently-being-fucked-up kid like that and yet don't AT LEAST do the same for adults that commit the same crime?

Alright, I'm sorry to be rude, but:
What  do you mean "might-become-pedophile"? You keep referencing "real pedophiles" and things like that, but he sodomized a six year old... He's already there buddy.
Frankly, I hope this is the beginning of a movement to harsher sentencing for pedophiles, child molesters and abusers in general.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 16, 2007, 09:06:01 pm
Honestly it is fucking unnerving reading some of these posts. Granted that it's a shitty crime but holy shit we are talking 60 years. Are we supposed to completely rule out rehabilitation simply because he's a rapist?
Yeah, I agree with this. The kid did something terrible, and he should be punished for what he did, but we need to take several things into account here:

- He was 13 when he committed the crime.
- He's a human being.

Being put in jail for 60 years is sort of ridiculous, in any rape case. Mass murderers and torturers are the ones who should be getting that kind of jail time. We're talking about a 15 year old kid who didn't kill anyone here. He's going to be 75 when he leaves prison. Do you think that this is, in any way, fair, even to someone who beat and raped a girl? And let's not forget that because he's so young, his chance of rehabilitation is bigger than usual.

But what baffles me most is that some child rapists get a couple of years in jail while this kid got 60. You can deny this all you want, but cases like this one really show how imbalanced and arbitrary the U.S. justice system is.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 16, 2007, 09:48:15 pm
Yeah, I agree with this. The kid did something terrible, and he should be punished for what he did, but we need to take several things into account here:

- He was 13 when he committed the crime.
- He's a human being.

Being put in jail for 60 years is sort of ridiculous, in any rape case. Mass murderers and torturers are the ones who should be getting that kind of jail time. We're talking about a 15 year old kid who didn't kill anyone here. He's going to be 75 when he leaves prison. Do you think that this is, in any way, fair, even to someone who beat and raped a girl? And let's not forget that because he's so young, his chance of rehabilitation is bigger than usual.

But what baffles me most is that some child rapists get a couple of years in jail while this kid got 60. You can deny this all you want, but cases like this one really show how imbalanced and arbitrary the U.S. justice system is.
This post wins this topic. Apparently some people cannot understand the reasoning behind it and think that I am SYMPATHIZING A PEDOPHILE because I think
SIXTY YEARS IS TOO MUCH FOR THIS.

Fuck. I'm done with this topic.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: The Magi on November 16, 2007, 10:02:42 pm
But what baffles me most is that some child rapists get a couple of years in jail while this kid got 60. You can deny this all you want, but cases like this one really show how imbalanced and arbitrary the U.S. justice system is.
It boils down to the judge on your trial. The sentence will probably be changed after an appeal anyway, because I can't see a verdict like this being final. Not to say that the kid doesn't deserve a harsh sentence, after all this girl will live with the scars and memories of what happened for the rest of her life.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: mkkmypet on November 16, 2007, 11:33:30 pm
he deserves it.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 16, 2007, 11:35:52 pm
Horrible, and this is supposed to be America? I thought when I saw the topic that this was in a country like North Korea or something. Are you going to give life sentence to robbers as well?
He was 13 for Christ sakes and even though what he did was horrible he could improve. Believe it or not, but even three years in prison would do an awful lot, and they could give him a prison sentence that he would be let out when he was considered mentally stable.  

Zeratul: You believe that if a person might destroy the life of a person (with intention?) then he deserves to rot in hell. Why doesn't all other rapist get life sentence? Why don't everyone who murders someone get life sentence? For instance there was a girl at about age 8 i think and she took her father's gun with her one day and killed one of her classmates. She should get life sentence right? I pretty sure she's out now and haven't killed another person, but you believe that she should get life sentence.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Bill Murray on November 16, 2007, 11:37:17 pm
Yeah, keep crying about the 15 year old.
I mean, seriously, the girl is SIX years old, the boy is FIFTEEN. If he doesn't know better at 15 then he's not going to know better at, say, 18. If they gave him LIFE I wouldn't have any sympathy for him. He deserves EVERY. FUCKING. YEAR. of his sentence. There is NO reason whatsoever why his sentence should be lightened.

Just for fun, let's see what this kid inflicted to get this OH SO HARSH PUNISHMENT: He should rot in hell and you should go there with him for suggesting his sentence was too harsh. You don't do this shit to a fucking 6 year old (or to anyone, for that matter). You're probably thinking he's not going to have much of a life because of what he did to her. Good, because she may not either.
Zeratul is 23. Zeratul has been alive for just over a third of his sentence.

Zeratul doesn't quite understand that if his sentence runs through he will be 75 years old when he leaves prison.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: kermit the toad on November 16, 2007, 11:49:57 pm
While this might be extreme, since he was a minor at the time, I really find it hard to care. He horribly beat and sexually assaulted a 6-year-old!

Did you read the description of the girl?

Quote
She had half an ear torn off, a lascerated liver, a skull fracture and bruises from the top of her head to her thighs.

That doesn't sound like he just roughed her up a bit. It sounds like he practically tried to kill her. Half an ear torn off? Fractured skull? Seriously, I find it really hard to care that this guy deserves anything less than he is getting.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 16, 2007, 11:55:32 pm
While this might be extreme, since he was a minor at the time, I really find it hard to care. He horribly beat and sexually assaulted a 6-year-old!

Did you read the description of the girl?

That doesn't sound like he just roughed her up a bit. It sounds like he practically tried to kill her. Half an ear torn off? Fractured skull? Seriously, I find it really hard to care that this guy deserves anything less than he is getting.
And you also believe that the eight year-old girl who shot a classmate should get 60 years in prison? The boy might have destroyed her life while the girl actually ruined the life another child undoubtedly!

Nobody has said it wasn't horrible and no one says that he shouldn't be punished,but there is no reason to give him 60 years when he can improve and become a responsible person.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 16, 2007, 11:59:26 pm
I don't think he deserves 60 years. He should spend some time in a rehabilitation facility with psychological evaluation before being released. Upon released he should be monitored carefully.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: kermit the toad on November 17, 2007, 12:00:30 am
And you also believe that the eight year-old girl who shot a classmate should get 60 years in prison?

Nobody has said it wasn't horrible and no one says that he shouldn't be punished,but there is no reason to give him 60 years when he can improve and become a responsible person.
I tend to feel that sex crimes should be dealt with more harshly than other crimes. But, yeah, I don't necessarily think that 60 years is necessary. I just find it really, really hard to care about this kid.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Killer Wolf on November 17, 2007, 12:03:59 am
Depending on the laws in the jurisdiction, this kid's life was pretty much in the can anyways. Give him a "regular" jail term and let him out - he's a sex offender. He isn't getting to drive, go to school, or really...work.

How do people react? If you're John Suburbia with Kathy Homemaker (maiden name) for a wife, with little Susie (six years old) asleep upstairs and you hear that the perpetrator of a crime like this has moved in...down the street/around the block...

Can you say witch-hunt? Death sentence imposed by the general public?

This person would become a horrendous burden on a system that is already over taxed because he would have essentially no way to imrpove himself or support himself. Lets put him on welfare that some other person (with a legitimate dissability) could be utilizing? No...

---

Laws with regards to sexual crimes are always touchy. Even the allegation can destroy someone, regardless of whether it is justified or not. For every case where it seems like a "hell yeah, let the bastard rot", there is an "innocent man/woman who can never live a normal life again."

---

That said - there are really only two ways to look at this.

If I were the father of a child who suffered what that little girl did - I'd want them to take the rapist's balls off with a razor and feed them to him. I'd want to see the individual tendons sliced through and witness the pain as they snap back against the bones. I'd want them to give him a blood transfusion and make it go on for about six weeks. I'd see him BEG for death or release, as I'm sure that little girl BEGGED, and then I'd see him left in a very small room to starve to death (or drown, not sure on that point- whichever is worse.)

Conversely...

If I were the father of the perpetrator, any sentence would probably seem like too much. I'd just want them to help my son out, who is obviously messed up. He needs to be helped not caged, he is misunderstood. Maybe with the right pharmaecopia he could lead a normal productive life...

As a complete outsider, with nothing invested in either party - I'd say that it sounds about right to me, because, like I said above, this kid was done anyways.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 17, 2007, 12:04:18 am
EDIT: DOUBLE POST
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 17, 2007, 12:05:24 am
Yeah, keep crying about the 15 year old.
I mean, seriously, the girl is SIX years old, the boy is FIFTEEN. If he doesn't know better at 15 then he's not going to know better at, say, 18. If they gave him LIFE I wouldn't have any sympathy for him. He deserves EVERY. FUCKING. YEAR. of his sentence. There is NO reason whatsoever why his sentence should be lightened.

Just for fun, let's see what this kid inflicted to get this OH SO HARSH PUNISHMENT: He should rot in hell and you should go there with him for suggesting his sentence was too harsh. You don't do this shit to a fucking 6 year old (or to anyone, for that matter). You're probably thinking he's not going to have much of a life because of what he did to her. Good, because she may not either.
PS, the girl WAS six. Not IS six. He WAS 13 when he committed the crime. Not fifteen.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Bill Murray on November 17, 2007, 12:09:07 am
While this might be extreme, since he was a minor at the time, I really find it hard to care. He horribly beat and sexually assaulted a 6-year-old!

Did you read the description of the girl?

That doesn't sound like he just roughed her up a bit. It sounds like he practically tried to kill her. Half an ear torn off? Fractured skull? Seriously, I find it really hard to care that this guy deserves anything less than he is getting.
Yeah, what he did was absolutely disgraceful, but sixty years. If he's going to be there, it'd probably be better to just kill him since we're talking losing his entire life for a really stupid, and really horrible mistake/explosion/etc.

Sure, for what he did I'd totally understand a 10 - 20 year sentence, but coming out as an old aged pensioner for something he'll regret incredibly 5-10 years of looking at the same cell?

I mean, jesus. Noone's experienced 60 years of life on this forum (unless someone is hiding something), we're all young, we've all lived for around a third of the sentence, maybe less in some cases (maybe more for old people like ktt). We've been alive for a long long time, and even then we can't remember our first few years. Imagine 60.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: the_hoodie on November 17, 2007, 12:12:54 am
In Canada, there was a 12-year old girl who killed her brother, father, and mother. She has sentenced to ten years, including four years in a psychiatric institution and four and a half years under conditional supervision in the community.

I would say what this girl did was much worse than sexual assault.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: NightBlade on November 17, 2007, 12:13:21 am
Honestly it is fucking unnerving reading some of these posts. Granted that it's a shitty crime but holy shit we are talking 60 years. Are we supposed to completely rule out rehabilitation simply because he's a rapist?

Yes, if you're a sex offender in this world; you may as well check straight into a cemetary.

You'll be chased out of neighborhoods, antagonized by everyone, and nobody will hire you, no matter how much effort you put in to change your ways. OH, and everyone will claim you CANT change your ways.

We should just cut out the middle man and catapult this dumb kid straight into the sun; at least that's straight forward, and would probably cost the tax payers less!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 17, 2007, 12:14:32 am
Killer Wolf: You are suggesting to give him a death sentence since he will never be accepted by any communities anymore. You are also suggesting that he will be a burden to the welfare system since he is not going to work or go to school since he is a sex offender. I'm sorry to tell you, but many sex offenders do work.

It is important not to forget that outside the area he lived, he is not very well known. Therefore people will only know that a new guy moved in the area and as long as CNN doesn't come and try to fuck up his life, then he will live there fairly peacefully.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: kermit the toad on November 17, 2007, 12:16:20 am
Yeah, what he did was absolutely disgraceful, but sixty years. If he's going to be there, it'd probably be better to just kill him since we're talking losing his entire life for a really stupid, and really horrible mistake/explosion/etc.

Sure, for what he did I'd totally understand a 10 - 20 year sentence, but coming out as an old aged pensioner for something he'll regret incredibly 5-10 years of looking at the same cell?

I mean, jesus. Noone's experienced 60 years of life on this forum (unless someone is hiding something), we're all young, we've all lived for around a third of the sentence, maybe less in some cases (maybe more for old people like ktt). We've been alive for a long long time, and even then we can't remember our first few years. Imagine 60.
20-25 years without parole. He gets seriously punished, and still has a chance at a semi-normal life in his mid-life years.

Or 10-15 years, plus time in a mental institution?

I don't know. I'm not really qualified to determine what sort of punishment this kid should get but, the more I think about it, the more I am agreeing with you. He is/was just a kid, after all. A seriously fucked up kid, but still a kid.

I dunno. I agree that 60 years may be too extreme, but a "stupid mistake?" That's a bit of an understatement.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Medieve on November 17, 2007, 12:16:36 am
No one here has sodomized a 6-year old girl before either. Don't compare us to him. He was 13 and he beat her up, but he was a screwy little kid when he raped her. He raped her before beating the shit out of her? He raped her while beating the shit out of her? He raped her after beating the shit out of her? If either of the incidences were separate, I would have recommended juvvy, but I can't see how you can compare his actions to a person not in jail right now.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Vellfire on November 17, 2007, 12:20:42 am
It is important not to forget that outside the area he lived, he is not very well known. Therefore people will only know that a new guy moved in the area and as long as CNN doesn't come and try to fuck up his life, then he will live there fairly peacefully.



Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I was pretty sure the residents of the neighborhood you move to have to agree to let you move in or at least be alerted that a sex offender is moving in.  Even if this isn't right, there is someone in pretty much every neighborhood that keeps an eye on sex offenders in the area, it's not something you can really keep secret.  I've looked in my area before, it takes about two seconds to see the sex offenders anywhere in any general area.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cho on November 17, 2007, 12:22:42 am
Quote
And you also believe that the eight year-old girl who shot a classmate should get 60 years in prison? The boy might have destroyed her life while the girl actually ruined the life another child undoubtedly!

Did the eight year old girl rape and sexual assault her classmate, then smash her nose in with the gun before ripping off part of her ear? The brutality of the crime plays a factor.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 17, 2007, 12:24:51 am
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I was pretty sure the residents of the neighborhood you move to have to agree to let you move in or at least be alerted that a sex offender is moving in.  Even if this isn't right, there is someone in pretty much every neighborhood that keeps an eye on sex offenders in the area, it's not something you can really keep secret.  I've looked in my area before, it takes about two seconds to see the sex offenders anywhere in any general area.
He probably has to move out of the U.S. to prevent that, but I don't believe that since he will be hated by people then he should get 60 years of prison is a valid reason.

Cho: I was discussing against the statement. He might have fucked up her life and therefore he deserves it. Then I told the example of girl since she totally ruined one of the classmates life. Much worse than what the boy did since he only might have destroyed her life. yes, the boy was more brutal, but the consequences were less.

There is one more aspect to look at. What's the chance of rehabilitation, but the problem is that it's pretty large which ruins that argument as well. Brutality comes under rehabilitation.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ragnar on November 17, 2007, 02:13:30 am
60 years is too long for any juvenile. we don't know anything about his environment: how the kid was raised, why hed do something like this, etc. there is a reason there are protections for children in the system, because children aren't just born with fucked up values in their heads. sure, the report tells us he feels no remorse, so obviously he's been fucked up somehow.

edit:

the mere fact that this guy is so fucked up should not merit the response "LOCK HIM UP FOREVER" but "HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS HAPPEN TO A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD?". locking this kid up for 60 years puts a band aid on a festering wound. psychoanalyze this fuck and figure out what is wrong.

i am not saying he should be slapped on the wrist, this kid needs severe mental help and needs A LOT of time in a prison system. i'm not one to decide how long. but 60 years is not worth taxpayer's money. and it wastes another life.

this

Wow I didn't want to read the details but I still stand my decision, if anything we'll find the evil gene in this kid

I mean it's severely fucked up but I don't know how you get that fucked up only being alive for 13 years
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 17, 2007, 03:17:08 am
I would say what this girl did was much worse than sexual assault.
and

Quote
She had half an ear torn off, a lascerated liver, a skull fracture and bruises from the top of her head to her thighs.

And sorry, but some fates are worse than death. This girl has to live with what happened to her... and having known several victims of sexual assault from an early age, they can get really fucked up. Take my sister for example. She will sleep with anyone. She will run away... meet some niggers on the corner and live with them for months until she gets bored and comes back home. She cannot keep a job for more than 2 weeks without freaking out. She goes into these intense panic attacks and starts acting out... something that used to land her in psychiatric custody for weeks on end (which is no longer an option seeing as how she is over 18). She flunked out of community college. She is a complete invalid. She cannot live without constant supervision. The assault fucked her head up. How she hasn't committed suicide yet is beyond me. Judging by what she's been saying.. she is heading there though seeing as how her current meds are causing fatigue and rapid weight gain. The girl is a wreck... and it's hard to console someone who has been raped. Death is a quick release... but a brutal sexual assault is going to impact that girl's life in the worst ways.

To be honest, I would have felt better about this if she was killed at the end. But then again, she might be the rare case that can actually deal with it.

Quote
We should just cut out the middle man and catapult this dumb kid straight into the sun; at least that's straight forward, and would probably cost the tax payers less!

I'm pretty sure it costs more to kill them (Millions) than to keep them alive.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 17, 2007, 03:47:25 am
Zeratul: You believe that if a person might destroy the life of a person (with intention?) then he deserves to rot in hell. Why doesn't all other rapist get life sentence? Why don't everyone who murders someone get life sentence? For instance there was a girl at about age 8 i think and she took her father's gun with her one day and killed one of her classmates. She should get life sentence right? I pretty sure she's out now and haven't killed another person, but you believe that she should get life sentence.
I don't preside over cases. I am not a judge. I have my feelings on these matters and I have the benefit of not having a robe to uphold. Obviously judges (ideally) do not work off of their feelings and so forth and instead uphold the relevant laws (with some room left in for them to move at their discretion). If I am not mistaken, however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing (although if it makes you feel any better, such a sentence probably won't hold up under appeal).
I don't know enough about the girl's case to comment on that. Maybe it was an accident, maybe since she's 8 she didn't realize the consequences of her actions. I don't know enough to make a judgment. I don't think that each and every murder/rape is justified by a long sentence, but based on what I know about this case, I don't feel sorry for the boy.

Quote
PS, the girl WAS six. Not IS six. He WAS 13 when he committed the crime. Not fifteen.
That was pointed out earlier and I admitted my oversight. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing it up again.

Quote
Zeratul is 23. Zeratul has been alive for just over a third of his sentence.

Zeratul doesn't quite understand that if his sentence runs through he will be 75 years old when he leaves prison.
Zeratul understands quite well how to add and subtract numbers and therefore Zeratul is quite aware that this kid will be white haired, arthritic, and lacking knowledge of a real life beyond the prison cell if he even lives long enough to live out his sentence. Zeratul just doesn't happen to think that this is the worst of atrocities given that the girl he kidnapped and physically and sexually abused is going to be screwed for life in ways that Zeratul will not pretend to be able to predict, except of course to note that it will not be good.

Look, if you want my honest opinion, I really don't care about this boy or his sentence. I don't disagree with his sentence. If he'd gotten less I wouldn't be out on the St Louis courthouse steps protesting or something.
I'm mostly annoyed by the larger issue wherein I know and hear too many people who read or listen to a story like this and  their first concern -- their FIRST concern -- is the comfort and rights of the criminal. What about the victim? The criminal has all kinds of appeals he can run and in all honesty he probably won't serve more than maybe 20 years, if that -- people have gotten less time for more horrible crimes. There is almost nothing the 6 year old girl will be able to do to avoid the effect this traumatic experience is going to have on her life. Her relationship with other people will almost certainly be affected. She may never know intimacy. I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not.
I mean, just look at the posts in this topic. Nearly everyone is largely concerned with the criminal and his rights, as if the crime he committed against a 6 year old girl was just a footnote or something. Chances are good that she is going to be fucked up for life, and I'm supposed to be up in arms because the perpetrator might be fucked for life too?
I had a girlfriend who was raped from 2 to 12. That shit fucks with your ability to live a decent life. I don't CARE if the criminal EVER gets out of jail.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 17, 2007, 03:55:11 am
That was pointed out earlier and I admitted my oversight. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing it up again.
oh sorry. trying to point out that i don't read threads. i just noticed it in a quote.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: thejackyl on November 17, 2007, 04:03:09 am
One. Sick. Fuck.

A similar thing happened to me (force to give head when I was about 5 or 6, to someone about 20)  So I sympathize with the girl...  hell, If I ever saw the fuck that did that to me, I'd fucking kill him.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Von Woofen on November 17, 2007, 04:03:48 am
Hmmm, well  I think everyone agrees he should be punished, and juvenile detention or whatever is clearly not adequate, but putting him in jail at that age, he will most likely be raped himself I think and become a man in prison, so it doesn't matter really how long you keep him there because I don't think he will ever be able to function in society after going to jail at 15. I believe he probably would have ended up back in jail many times and hurt more people if he was let out after that experience, so really there is no good way to deal with this situation!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: thejackyl on November 17, 2007, 04:15:12 am
...I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not....

I remained pretty much "normal" until about 5 years ago (15) when I realized what rape was, I got depressed, and I'm back to normal now except for one thing.  I can't stand being touched by guys...  except maybe a handshake or high-five.  Anything more, and I freak out.  My friends don't know this though, and they probably wont.  Either way, I actually passed out because one of them tried to hug me.

I'm a guy btw, and this hasn't effected my dating life except I don't EVER want a blowjob.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: TheCreeper on November 17, 2007, 04:15:53 am
Hey, read the fucking article.

It doesn't say a 15 year old attacked a 6 year old.
The kid was fucking 13 at the time. Therefore, the girl would be 8 right now.

60 years is way to fucking excessive.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Rye Bread on November 17, 2007, 04:48:10 am
I don't feel like typing a bunch of shit, but I agree entirely with Dada.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 17, 2007, 06:20:51 am
I'm not going to remain silent just because you don't like what I have to say. The fact of the matter is that the subject was brought up and all I did was express an opinion on the subject which you didn't like. I don't care whether you agree with what I have to say, and I don't think that it's important to begin with. I'm entitled to state my opinion and I resent the implication that if I don't express a whiny boo-hoo sentiment towards the boy's sentence for his crime then my opinion has no right to be expressed.
I'm not SILENCING YOUR OPINION you dolt. There's just no point in saying HEH HE DOESN'T DESERVE ANY LESS HES GOT NO REMORSE because you don't know that.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 17, 2007, 06:24:16 am
I'm not SILENCING YOUR OPINION you dolt. There's just no point in saying HEH HE DOESN'T DESERVE ANY LESS HES GOT NO REMORSE because you don't know that.
As opposed to the mountainous load of information you've got over me which leads to your conclusion.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 17, 2007, 06:29:50 am
What's my conclusion?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 17, 2007, 06:36:47 am
I believe it ran somewhere along the lines of "60 years is an unreasonable sentence for the crime."
You have as much information to determine that as I have to determine my opinion.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 17, 2007, 06:49:44 am
I know what crime he's committed?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: JoshAP2007 on November 17, 2007, 07:22:58 am
I think he deserve all that he got.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: number1337 on November 17, 2007, 08:05:00 am
I think a sentence of 60 years is just way too brash.

Like it has been pointed out before, we've seen much larger crime committees get much smaller sentences. Personally, I think it would fuck him up even more by making him live in the same cramped space for 60 years. He won't be able to experience all of this world has to offer, nor any of the psychiatric help it can offer him.

By and by, he is a fucked up individual, but he is still human nonetheless. Lower the sentence by at least half and help this screwed up kid.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: LORd on November 17, 2007, 11:12:45 am
I know what crime he's committed?
I think Zeratul's point was that from the limited information we have, you're assuming the best of the criminal, while Zeratul's assuming the worst - with "best" and "worst" being relative here, of course: one side puts emphasis on the young age and immaturity of the boy and the other at his glaring inhumanity during court proceedings, which really is the root of this conflict. The way I see it both viewpoints are equally valid from our position so I'd prefer this meta-debate to end so we can, you know, discuss the issue.

That being said
I'm mostly annoyed by the larger issue wherein I know and hear too many people who read or listen to a story like this and  their first concern -- their FIRST concern -- is the comfort and rights of the criminal. What about the victim? The criminal has all kinds of appeals he can run and in all honesty he probably won't serve more than maybe 20 years, if that -- people have gotten less time for more horrible crimes. There is almost nothing the 6 year old girl will be able to do to avoid the effect this traumatic experience is going to have on her life. Her relationship with other people will almost certainly be affected. She may never know intimacy. I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not.
I mean, just look at the posts in this topic. Nearly everyone is largely concerned with the criminal and his rights, as if the crime he committed against a 6 year old girl was just a footnote or something. Chances are good that she is going to be fucked up for life, and I'm supposed to be up in arms because the perpetrator might be fucked for life too?
I had a girlfriend who was raped from 2 to 12. That shit fucks with your ability to live a decent life. I don't CARE if the criminal EVER gets out of jail.
I think you're assuming things here - fatty did word poorly his first few posts in this thread, which probably was the thing that brought about this fiasco, but I don't think any one of us wasn't repulsed by the boy's actions. It's just that his sentence is really the only thing up for debate in that piece of news and truth be told I prefer where we're at now infinitely to yet another thread of humapnity has hit a n ew low...........

But back on topic with me! I am of the opinion that the boy must have gone through some seriously deep shit to be capable of doing what he did to that girl, and as such I find 50+ years without parole pretty excessive. As stated earlier though it's not a very necessary concern since this sentence most definitely won't hold under appeal so here's to hoping that both he and his victim get the help and understanding they need.

Makes me wonder, though. Why did it take two years after the crime to sentence him? Has the girl been in a coma or shock or something or equally uncapable of telling information about her assailant, or did the legal proceedings really take this long with such a glaring crime?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 17, 2007, 11:33:49 am
I don't preside over cases. I am not a judge. I have my feelings on these matters and I have the benefit of not having a robe to uphold. Obviously judges (ideally) do not work off of their feelings and so forth and instead uphold the relevant laws (with some room left in for them to move at their discretion). If I am not mistaken, however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing (although if it makes you feel any better, such a sentence probably won't hold up under appeal).
I don't know enough about the girl's case to comment on that. Maybe it was an accident, maybe since she's 8 she didn't realize the consequences of her actions. I don't know enough to make a judgment. I don't think that each and every murder/rape is justified by a long sentence, but based on what I know about this case, I don't feel sorry for the boy
After your new definition then teenagers who beat up other children on the street should also get 60 years. You must remember that they didn't say that he showed no remorse, only that he lied and I would probably lie as well in the same situation. Why do teenagers who beat up other children hardly any punishment at all (Maybe a month), but he is supposed to get 60 years.

At least it won't hold under an appeal and that's a good thing. The girl did it because she got mad so it wasn't an accident, but I don't think she realized the cosequences.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 17, 2007, 12:25:54 pm
I think Zeratul's point was that from the limited information we have, you're assuming the best of the criminal, while Zeratul's assuming the worst - with "best" and "worst" being relative here, of course: one side puts emphasis on the young age and immaturity of the boy and the other at his glaring inhumanity during court proceedings, which really is the root of this conflict. The way I see it both viewpoints are equally valid from our position so I'd prefer this meta-debate to end so we can, you know, discuss the issue.
Except his 'viewpoint' isn't valid at all because it's just a dumb assumption about the nature of the person which really doesn't have a place in the discussion. If he wants to discuss anything it should be the nature of the crime.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dom on November 17, 2007, 12:29:56 pm
This kid doesn't even get a chance of parole until he's over 60 years old. Even if he is rehabilitated, and becomes a good member of society, he is STUCK IN PRISON UNTIL HE'S 60.  This punishment is absolutely ABSURD.

however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing
This kid is 15. It is VERY LIKELY that he will develop remorse for his actions and try to be a good person again. And it's VERY LIKELY that he'll do it LONG BEFORE HIS PAROLE IS UP.

Quote from: 'Zeratul
Zeratul understands quite well how to add and subtract numbers and therefore Zeratul is quite aware that this kid will be white haired' date=' arthritic, and lacking knowledge of a real life beyond the prison cell if he even lives long enough to live out his sentence. Zeratul just doesn't happen to think that this is the worst of atrocities given that the girl he kidnapped and physically and sexually abused is going to be screwed for life in ways that Zeratul will not pretend to be able to predict, except of course to note that it will not be good.[/quote']
This is a stretch, but it is a valid point: this girl can work past what happened to her and live a normal life. The boy (this is on the condition that he, at some point, realises the error of his ways which as said before is very likely) will never be able to do this.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Supra Mairo on November 17, 2007, 12:30:03 pm
he will be 75 years old when he leaves prison.
I doubt a child molester/raper is going to live even 75 days in a prison.
I really doubt he WONT be killed by some thugs who have kids/dont take this kind of shit kindly.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: MISTER BIG T on November 17, 2007, 12:51:35 pm
I think the justice system is wrong but totally opposite of what you think Fatty. We let younger people do horrible, inhuman acts and just say "boys are boys" or "kids do darnest things" and then stuff like five 12 year olds raping and mutilating 5 year old wheelchair girl get only scolded and have to pay some small fine, despite that they'd deserve life entence.

I don't think it's to be looked at age, how big of an asshole you are. That's why if someone does something this horrible; they deserve everything that's coming to them. Especially the part where he was reportedly shown no emotion at all despite hearing he'll be sentenced to 60 years in prison, tells me he's a really sick and twisted invidual. I am just sorry for the poor girl that she had to suffer so much before he was placed behind the bars. I hope she'll be able to get over this. 
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Jester on November 17, 2007, 12:58:34 pm
ps to people saying even mass murderers etc dont get this long: they should. we arent allowed to kill them, but really they threw away their lives by being such fucking jerks.

if you do anything to willingly harm an innocent human in this extreme way, you don't deserve any rights at all.

just my two cents ^^;
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 17, 2007, 01:00:59 pm
There's one thing that people here just can't seem to comprehend, and that's the fact that this 15 year old kid is a human being and deserves to be treated like one. 60 years in prison for a crime like this seems inhumane to me. Yes, the girl was beaten up pretty bad, but she didn't retain any lasting disabilities. Yes, she must have been messed up psychologically by the attack, but I have no doubt that she'll grow past it and become able to live a normal life eventually. Normal, healthy people are able to do that, no matter what burden they'll carry with them from then on.

Modern criminal punishments are composed for various reasons: incapacitation, deterrence, rehabilitation, and retribution. That last one is what I'm looking at here. Basically, by literally taking revenge for the crime that was committed, the state is attempting to prevent vigilantism. But sometimes, it can be a downright cruel factor, and I think that it played too big a role in this determination. 60 years for this offense, even if it was a dirty act with no respect for a human life, is too much.
ps to people saying even mass murderers etc dont get this long: they should. we arent allowed to kill them, but really they threw away their lives by being such fucking jerks.

if you do anything to willingly harm an innocent human in this extreme way, you don't deserve any rights at all.
Then you should move to America, where they agree with you. Thankfully, almost all of Europe does not agree with this. The state should never be allowed to take a life or take away human rights. There's nothing modern about that.
Especially the part where he was reportedly shown no emotion at all despite hearing he'll be sentenced to 60 years in prison, tells me he's a really sick and twisted invidual.
If you were sentenced to 60 years in prison, would you cry? Would you be able to comprehend that you'd not be getting out until you're 75 years old? The reason why this kid "showed no remorse" is most likely because he didn't know what to do at all. If I were sentenced to 60 years in prison, I wouldn't get it either! I'd just stare into space blankly, trying to make some sense of it all, but I doubt I would be able to! You shouldn't condemn the kid because he didn't appear to be showing any emotion.

Besides, despite the fact that he is sick and twisted, he really does have his human rights, and the right to a fair trial. No matter what you say. If you don't agree that he should, move to Myanmar.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: hero_bash on November 17, 2007, 01:13:25 pm
he deserves the punishment.. the world is too loose on this kind of crimes.. no mercy shall be shown
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Jester on November 17, 2007, 01:37:09 pm
There's one thing that people here just can't seem to comprehend, and that's the fact that this 15 year old kid is a human being and deserves to be treated like one. 60 years in prison for a crime like this seems inhumane to me. Yes, the girl was beaten up pretty bad, but she didn't retain any lasting disabilities.
how does this bit make any difference, out of interest? i do not think the kid was thinking OK I WILL BEAT HER JUST ENOUGH TO NOT GIVE HER ANY LASTING DISABILITIES

but yeah basically this topic is just NO HE DOESNT DESERVE 60 YEARS HE IS A HUMAN vs NO HE DOES HE FUCKED UP TOO BADLY AT THIS POINT so yeah lets see another 3 pages!!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: MISTER BIG T on November 17, 2007, 01:47:04 pm
There's one thing that people here just can't seem to comprehend, and that's the fact that this 15 year old kid is a human being and deserves to be treated like one. 60 years in prison for a crime like this seems inhumane to me. Yes, the girl was beaten up pretty bad, but she didn't retain any lasting disabilities. Yes, she must have been messed up psychologically by the attack, but I have no doubt that she'll grow past it and become able to live a normal life eventually. Normal, healthy people are able to do that, no matter what burden they'll carry with them from then on.

Childhood plays the biggest part of developing your mentality actually. This thing happening to her at age of 6 may make her clinically afraid, hateful of guys, and more. Trust me on this one, no matter how old you get some bad things can never be forgotten or gotten over with.

Quote
If you were sentenced to 60 years in prison, would you cry? Would you be able to comprehend that you'd not be getting out until you're 75 years old? The reason why this kid "showed no remorse" is most likely because he didn't know what to do at all. If I were sentenced to 60 years in prison, I wouldn't get it either! I'd just stare into space blankly, trying to make some sense of it all, but I doubt I would be able to! You shouldn't condemn the kid because he didn't appear to be showing any emotion.

Confusion and being baffled is an emotion that's clearly visible, especially if it comes off as a huge and unprepared shock like in this case. Being emotioneless means having absolute no reaction, visually when you hear that. I know my eyes would nearly pop out from my sockets and my mouth would fall to floor.

Quote
Besides, despite the fact that he is sick and twisted, he really does have his human rights, and the right to a fair trial. No matter what you say. If you don't agree that he should, move to Myanmar.

It WAS a fair trial and it was declared sentence. The family may (and probably will) demand it being lowered and it probably will be cut off, maybe by even a half if enough evidence and strong points are brought up.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 17, 2007, 02:33:32 pm
but yeah basically this topic is just NO HE DOESNT DESERVE 60 YEARS HE IS A HUMAN vs NO HE DOES HE FUCKED UP TOO BADLY AT THIS POINT so yeah lets see another 3 pages!!
no lets stop here
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 17, 2007, 02:37:07 pm
Childhood plays the biggest part of developing your mentality actually.
I am curious as to what your parents did to you when you were 6 years old because your mentality is far from stable[/offtopic]

also </sarcasm>
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 17, 2007, 02:46:38 pm
I've read that some people say that being raped and sexually assaulted is worse than being killed? how is that even possible? I've met lots of guys/girls that were raped as kids and they are perfectly healthy people now, rape happens a LOT more that you see in the news, specially as a kid. I don't think many of the people who are suffering the consecuences of being raped, would have prefered to be killed...
when you're killed, your life is 100% screwed. when you're raped, there's chances (and not THAT low) that you'll be able to recover, so how is raping worse than killing in any way? (Even if the brutality of the crime plays a role, it doesn't make it worse on its own)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Wash Cycle on November 17, 2007, 03:37:38 pm
as far as the criminal punishment system goes I'm pretty not in line with the currently dominant (or rather ohio's) system of criminal punishments and such

60 years is pretty harsh, and the way to deal with juvenile criminals is not to thrust them into the adult prison system, no matter how serious the crime. REHABILITATE THEM. We can at least try to help him (hello carl rogers), but yeah if therapy and counselling doesn't help his situation by the time he is.. say 25, then fuck it let him rot in prison. Though letting him out at really any age is gonna screw him over and he'll end up working at a gas station somewhere because he'll have no job skills other than the menial labor like making license plates that inmates have. Hopefully whatever state that he is in doesnt treat him like they do people twice his age and at least try to help him out a little (also there will be appeals to the sentence I hope... 60 years is fucking ridiculous and no self-respecting lawyer would let that stand unchallenged) (glad I said something that has been said before like.. probably 5+ times oh well)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 17, 2007, 04:10:16 pm
Man I'm done with this topic.
Look, all of this is moot anyways. They're going to file an appeal on the grounds that the sentence is excessive and maybe on some other stuff, and this kid'll be out in like 20 years or less.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 17, 2007, 04:31:39 pm
how does this bit make any difference, out of interest?
It's a factor used to determine how harshly the criminal will be punished just like any other.

Confusion and being baffled is an emotion that's clearly visible, especially if it comes off as a huge and unprepared shock like in this case. Being emotioneless means having absolute no reaction, visually when you hear that. I know my eyes would nearly pop out from my sockets and my mouth would fall to floor.
Have you ever been sentenced to 60 years in prison?

You think you know how you would react, don't you? But in reality, you really can't know how you will react because of two things: it's really difficult to grasp the prospect of being in jail for 60 years, and even if you do, you'll become emotional, your adrenaline level will start to rise, and by then it'll be practically impossible to tell what you're going to do.

I'm not going to debate with you whether the girl is traumatized or whether she's going to be messed up for the rest of her life, because neither of us are psychologists, but my original point still stands: that despite crimes committed, a human being is still a human being, and deserves to be treated fairly. This is the cornerstone of civilization. Retribution shouldn't be the heaviest factor in determining a punishment.

That said, I don't disagree that this kid did something horrible. He does deserve serious jail time. He just doesn't deserve to be put away in a box until his life is practically over.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 17, 2007, 04:38:50 pm
Also, for all of you saying he won't survive in prison; he's 15. I am pretty sure even HARDENED CRIMINALS wouldn't kill a 15 year old in prison, even if what he did was so terrible. Most criminals are pretty normal beyond making some really bad decisions, and a lot of them even have morals and other such things that will likely make them debate the same things we're all debating. I mean... not a loud, or anything. But some of them will definitely realise HEY HE WAS THIRTEEN.

But then it only takes one dude to kill someone so... if there's anyone like half of you who think he should be STRUNG UP AND BEATEN or blasted to the sun, he should probably watch his back.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: jamie on November 17, 2007, 07:53:57 pm
yeah i think this is a ridiculously hard sentence on this kid. i think it's possible for a 13 year old to be rehabilitated, without knowing anything else about the person. i guess i'm just not a fan of the idea of sentencing someone based on how much you hate them. at thirteen some people are still pulling the legs from toads, so i'm saying that while this atrocity needs to be dealt with very seriously, i don't think it's right to say to a 15 year old - who was 13 at the time - okay, well, you don't get to have a life anymore.

i'm definitely not saying he should get anything other than locked up, clearly someone who does this is really dangerous. what i'm saying is let's say in 10 years when he is a fully grown man who may legitimately hate that awful thing he done and has developed some sense of morality, he is just to be left there for another 50 years because the thing he done was so disgusting? it's not likely he'll ever be well enough to be allowed out, or maybe into some kind of facility, but it's possible, i think.

i think that, like a lot of people in this topic, the judge just couldn't get over his hate of this boy in order to realise how insanely excessive and misguided this punishment is.

as for the girl, i don't know what to say. what could i know about what it's like for her, and for her family.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ash on November 18, 2007, 02:55:21 am
i think that, like a lot of people in this topic, the judge just couldn't get over his hate of this boy in order to realise how insanely excessive and misguided this punishment is.
The problem is a lot of the time the judge will give an excessive sentence, as a combination of their own emotions and as an (poor) attempt to appease the people's need for closure; ie MULTIPLE LIFE SNETENCES BACK TO BACK (just in case the person lives to the age of 200 people need to know the guy will still be in prison i guess!)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ryan on November 18, 2007, 03:03:18 am
jail is not the proper method of dealing with someone this young. he should be rehabilitated, not put into an institution that will most certainly make him completely insane or make a complete criminal out of him. not saying i sympathize with him, it was a pretty horrific thing to do, but this will only make matters worse!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cheshire Cat on November 18, 2007, 12:38:17 pm
I don't really care how long he gets.

I wont lose any sleep over him, yknow, what with the nature of what he's done.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 18, 2007, 02:59:31 pm
We all missed the point. Look at why he got 60 years.

20 years for assault...
10 years for Sodomy...
10 years for attempted rape even though they counted a rape charge... (which I assume is what they meant by Sodomy, because I can't believe they would charge someone 10 years for the act itself)

Something is not right here.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 18, 2007, 04:06:12 pm
Which is why any half decent lawyer will be able to get the bulk of the sentence overturned on appeal.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: LORd on November 18, 2007, 06:52:06 pm
Except his 'viewpoint' isn't valid at all because it's just a dumb assumption about the nature of the person which really doesn't have a place in the discussion. If he wants to discuss anything it should be the nature of the crime.
Well...what I was trying to say is that you really can't censure Zeratul for coming to the conclusion he did since the news article does paint the image of a rather unapologetic individual and his monstrous crime. I will have to agree, though, that it is pretty premature to deem the kid WITHOUT REDEMPTION based on the text, but turns out there are a few people out there who wish to argue that.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Lars on November 18, 2007, 07:40:32 pm
You guys...

The kid is just 15 :(

Yeah what he did is horrible but I'd rather have someone 'fix' him than throw him away to let him rot for something he did in his puberty...
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Wash Cycle on November 18, 2007, 09:57:40 pm
We all missed the point. Look at why he got 60 years.

20 years for assault...
10 years for Sodomy...
10 years for attempted rape even though they counted a rape charge... (which I assume is what they meant by Sodomy, because I can't believe they would charge someone 10 years for the act itself)

Something is not right here.
iirc in some states sodomy is illegal. its the best method places like texas could come up with to try to keep people from being gay
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: kermit the toad on November 18, 2007, 10:33:03 pm
iirc in some states sodomy is illegal. its the best method places like texas could come up with to try to keep people from being gay
I don't think that's the point. I think what he's saying is: "Look, the total sentence for each of the crimes adds up to 40 years. Why is he getting 60?"
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: HybridZero on November 19, 2007, 12:02:05 am
What? 60 years is not enough. If you rape someone, especially a child, you should get life in solitary with no possibility of parole in my opinion. People like this are scum.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Grunthor on November 19, 2007, 12:11:59 am
We all missed the point. Look at why he got 60 years.

20 years for assault...
10 years for Sodomy...
10 years for attempted rape even though they counted a rape charge... (which I assume is what they meant by Sodomy, because I can't believe they would charge someone 10 years for the act itself)

Something is not right here.



In most cases those numbers are just guidelines.  A judge is free to add to or subtract from them as he sees fit.  Besides, Zeratul is right that the sentence will be reduced.  I mean hell, the average murderer serves about 20 years, so this will probably be knocked down to somewhere around 6-10 years max. 
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: XaviarCraig on November 19, 2007, 01:34:30 am
Well... I am alittle late on getting to this, but here is my two cents;

When a child is under the age 12(average) they are like sponges. They suck up everything they feel, hear, and see. At such a young age it is very easy to leave impressions of what is right and wrong, what is accepted and what is not. It is also easy to permanently scar someone for life physically and mentally. That being said, the fact that the 15 year old kidnapped, beat and sexually assaulted a girl means 1 of two things to me;

1) He was extremely pissed at the girl for some reason(Highly unlikely, and it was not mentioned in the link).
2) The boy has had a twisted upbringing which made him think it was ok or that he could get away with it.

Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him. I bet he will try the same shit once he gets out of prison, so I would say he needs to be executed.

Before any of you start bitching at me, the boy basically murdered the girl in my opinion. I would put money down saying that the girl will not be okay when she grows up. She will probably be paranoid and scared of nearly everyone. A sexually assault on children under the age of 12 should be sentenced the death penalty in my books.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: the_bub_from_the_pit on November 19, 2007, 02:13:30 am
You guys need to READ THE ARTICLE.

He was thirteen when he commited the crime, not fifteen. He is fifteen now.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Xeno|Soft on November 19, 2007, 02:35:02 am
the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.

however, I don't mind turning a blind eye, yes its wrong but I really don't care about this kid...that is why I don't plan on being a cop, or a anything that requires me to strip my personal emotions.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 19, 2007, 04:55:27 am
the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.
w.. no it's not. i mean, some prisons try to do that but it's an outside effort. prison is a place of punishment; a place where bad is sealed away. they don't care about rehabilitation at all, really.

edit: like if you're grounded and can't go outside. that's not rehabilitate you, it's just to punish you. hopefully you will use that time to reflect on your mistakes and not make them again when you're allowed out
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 19, 2007, 07:05:35 am
the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.
Rather, prison is like a college education for criminals. You want to learn how to be a good criminal? Spend a few years in the slammer.
Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him.
Man, that is terrible. I'm glad I don't live in America or any other country that supports the death penalty. There's something wrong here when people are perfectly okay with a 15 year old kid being killed for a crime he committed two years ago.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Roman on November 19, 2007, 07:48:25 am
Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him. I bet he will try the same shit once he gets out of prison, so I would say he needs to be executed.

Before any of you start bitching at me, the boy basically murdered the girl in my opinion. I would put money down saying that the girl will not be okay when she grows up. She will probably be paranoid and scared of nearly everyone. A sexually assault on children under the age of 12 should be sentenced the death penalty in my books.

Fuck you asshole.  THE SENTENCE WAS TOO LIGHT holy shit man.

I can acknowledge that what this kid did was disgusting and he needs to be punished for it, but what's with this NO SECOND CHANCES THROW HIM IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR mentality?  That's horseshit.  Fuck the FROM WHAT I CAN TELL HE WON'T CHANGE argument because you probably can't tell shit, buddy.  Why can't we give him a chance for rehabilitation?  Aren't we no better than he if we just throw him away and forget about him?  I know that you think you're being COMPASSIONATE by caring oh so much for this girl, but if you were really compassionate you would care for the lives of both the girl and the boy.  They certainly both need it.

And yeah dude do you think KILLING HIM will make the girl feel any better because it probably won't make a difference.

ps yeah the girl will probably be have issues for the rest of her life but shes far from dead, dude. 
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on November 19, 2007, 10:02:47 am
I don't think that's the point. I think what he's saying is: "Look, the total sentence for each of the crimes adds up to 40 years. Why is he getting 60?"

No. I left out the kidnapping charge of 20 years. My point was that they seem to be packing on charges by renaming the same crimes... on top of being excessively long.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: XaviarCraig on November 19, 2007, 03:08:22 pm
Fuck you asshole.  THE SENTENCE WAS TOO LIGHT holy shit man.

I can acknowledge that what this kid did was disgusting and he needs to be punished for it, but what's with this NO SECOND CHANCES THROW HIM IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR mentality? 

Its like this; Why take chances with some who is very likely to commit rape and murder? I have heard many cases like this where a kid between the age of 12 and 16 committed a serious crime. Not once have I heard that they changed after any punishment. Instead all I hear/see is that these people did something worse when they got out of juvy.


Why can't we give him a chance for rehabilitation?  Aren't we no better than he if we just throw him away and forget about him?  I know that you think you're being COMPASSIONATE by caring oh so much for this girl, but if you were really compassionate you would care for the lives of both the girl and the boy.

I am really curious... How would you rehabilitation someone like this? Honestly, I don't think its possible without methods short of those used in the book 1984 where they made the main character love big brother through torturing him over and over again until he agreed to anything the person doing it said. Maybe if we did just destroy him we are equally as bad in your eyes. However, when I look at it as sacrificing one life to protect several others.


If I wanted to be compassionate, I would have said the girl should be destroyed as well since she probably wont carry her own weight in society... ever. Such a person is merely a hindrance that wastes time and resources.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 19, 2007, 03:15:08 pm
Xaviar, I know many people that were abused as a kid and are now perfectly normal people, why makes you think you know that she won't be able to be a normal human being in society?
and we have lots and lots of people that are dead weight on our society , that's what we decided to do. we have big cities so not ALL of us HAVE to be useful, we have sick people, we have old people, etc, they're all dead weight by your standards but that doesn't mean it's better to get rid of them.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: XaviarCraig on November 19, 2007, 04:19:05 pm
Well having such a horrible thing happen to her at such a young age. It does not seem likely that she will ever return to normal. How would you even begin to treat/rehabilitate a young girl from such a thing?

My definition of "dead weight" is someone who can not function in society without constantly using more than they produce. A semi retarded high school drop out that becomes a grocery store clerk for the rest of his life is NOT dead weight. A woman who constantly needs meds and therapy just to live each day with out a nervous break down without a job IS.

I raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?

Again I am just stating my opinion which is open to change. If you disagree, explain why without resorting to insults. If you do and your point(s) are valid, chances are I will revoke my statements.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 19, 2007, 04:22:03 pm
Xaviar is right. The boy should be killed in the most horrible way imaginable to make him suffer for his sins. Also the girl should be killed because it is a widely accept fact that people who are abused like this as children usually end up crazy/depressed/suicidal/stupid. She will be nothing more than a burden to society and should be silently removed from the population imo. If we did this more often our society would be much better. We would have less crime, less intolerance, racism, pollution, and more goodwill towards others as they have proven themselves useful and worthy to the rest of humanity. In fact, we should kill all prisoners too, because they are in prison due to breaking laws. They are burdens of the state which need to be destroyed. We shouldn't have to pay for them, and if you aren't going to kill them at least stop pampering them. We should also destroy all victims of crimes as they are obviously either too weak to defend themselves or will be permanently damaged from the crime. I should also destroy my neighbour JUST BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE HIM. Really why do we even have laws? Everyone should just be destroyed to prevents crime, wars, and general antics that are detrimental to anything.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: the bloddy ghost on November 19, 2007, 05:30:36 pm
Rather, prison is like a college education for criminals. You want to learn how to be a good criminal? Spend a few years in the slammer.Man, that is terrible. I'm glad I don't live in America or any other country that supports the death penalty. There's something wrong here when people are perfectly okay with a 15 year old kid being killed for a crime he committed two years ago.

I'm gonna have to agree with you. I don't think he really needs to be killed, but he should be made to face what he did, and to understand what he did was wrong.

His crime was extreme, and I think it's really hard to make a fair punishment for such an unfair act. Is 65 years in prison too extreme? The girl is most likely going to suffer all of her life due to the atrocities commited to her. How do we make a fair punishment for that? Is there one?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Zeratul on November 19, 2007, 05:34:22 pm
Well having such a horrible thing happen to her at such a young age. It does not seem likely that she will ever return to normal. How would you even begin to treat/rehabilitate a young girl from such a thing?

My definition of "dead weight" is someone who can not function in society without constantly using more than they produce. A semi retarded high school drop out that becomes a grocery store clerk for the rest of his life is NOT dead weight. A woman who constantly needs meds and therapy just to live each day with out a nervous break down without a job IS.

I raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?

Again I am just stating my opinion which is open to change. If you disagree, explain why without resorting to insults. If you do and your point(s) are valid, chances are I will revoke my statements.
All right, I'll try not to insult your, eh, rather draconian viewpoints.
The biggest problem with your line of logic is that it requires taking a snapshot in time and making judgments based on that snapshot. What if the woman in your example is only in this state for a year or two, and after considerable therapy and meeting with the right people she goes on to become a high profile director of an institute which services women who had similar plights to hers? If we just take that snapshot of yours, we'll kill her, and instead keep a "semi retarded high school drop out" who, we'll say to further my argument, is going to be working in the grocery store, in the same position, until he's too old to work anymore.
The other problem is that such a government would be unsustainable in the long run. I think you'd find that the process involved in 1) trying to find out who's "worthy" of living, 2) Assessing thier overall situation, and 3) killing everyone who fails to meet standards would be cumbersome, costly and wouldn't really help you that much in the end. You'd be so wrapped up in paperwork and bureaucracy that you'd have a long line of "unworthy people" dying before they could get killed. (Hey, this is starting to sound like death row...) Remember, Albert Einstein didn't do well in his younger years in school; by your standards, he would've been killed off and we would've lost so much.
Besides, don't kid yourself: Most (I would even guess all) Americans use resources above and beyond what they produce. I don't think even you would be stupid enough to think that 310,000,000 people ought to be killed for this, although I guess I could be wrong.

Also, although I wouldn't argue that rehabilitation isn't impossible, I would also point out that our current system for dealing with prisoners leaves little room for rehabilitation. Our prison system is HORRIBLE at making people better members of society. If we're not sticking them in a cell, beating them all the time and feeding them lousy food until their time is up, we're giving them soft beds, television, gyms, computers, and more resources than some of them will ever enjoy outside of "the pen." Not to mention it's notoriously difficult to find a job or an apartment after being released from prison (even after a false conviction!).
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: the bloddy ghost on November 19, 2007, 05:38:14 pm
XavierCraig: i think we should turn the prisoners into soap..... so that they are at least useful to us. they did it before in another country to people they didn't like and it worked pretty well.

I'm also really glad to know that you got the author's intended meaning out of 1984. Good job!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Kaempfer on November 19, 2007, 06:22:52 pm
Just so I'm clear here; Xaviar Craig wants to euthanize the girl who got raped because... she got raped? Because she's damaged goods?

Man, fuck that Xaviar Craig. That is really, really fucking stupid. Not only is there still a good chance she can be fully rehabilitated (like, completely, she still has 4-8 really impressionable years ahead of her) but even if, for some reason, she wasn't able to fully reintegrate into society that doesn't mean that we should "destroy her" like she is rotten beef. She had her life ruined by someone else who did it on purpose. To think that she should be punished with death for that (and only that) is absolutely absurd. Seriously, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever read at GW, and I have read some dumb shit.

You ought to be honestly ashamed of yourself for even insinuating that she should be "destroyed" because she had something traumatic happen to her at a young age.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: XaviarCraig on November 19, 2007, 06:50:41 pm
Eh... Zeratul... Yea... I will hand it to you... You got quite a point. I could try defending my points more, but at this stage I think I will just admit my ideas are perhaps too extreme and not necessarily for the greater good. Damn... I am surprized I did not think of those points myself!

Since my view on the girls life was perhaps the worst, I will just admit it was a really bad idea and put it aside. Now... What about the boy though? Those crimes are just as simple as stealing someone's lunch money...
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dom on November 19, 2007, 07:14:54 pm
Well haI raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Matthew 7:1-5
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Pepoke on November 19, 2007, 07:19:51 pm
Yes he deserves punishment, but you should at least try to help in get away from the crap he did. Try to rehab him. If the rehab doesnt work, well, put him back in jail. Hes young, and fixable. And to be dead serious, Im 14 years old, and I used to be addicted to cp. But look at me now, Ive been cp free since July!!! I have no doubt in my mind that this kid can be redeemed from what he did, and I have no doubt for the girl either.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 19, 2007, 07:26:33 pm
Well having such a horrible thing happen to her at such a young age. It does not seem likely that she will ever return to normal. How would you even begin to treat/rehabilitate a young girl from such a thing?
How would you begin to treat someone like that? It's simple. First, you get someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Someone who went to med school and practices medicine with a license. Then you ask him kindly to go to work.

I raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?
Because we are all human beings and we deserve to be treated as such. We are (or should be) exempt from receiving inhumane punishment, such as death, when we do something wrong.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Raimiette on November 19, 2007, 08:28:36 pm
If I wanted to be compassionate, I would have said the girl should be destroyed as well since she probably wont carry her own weight in society... ever. Such a person is merely a hindrance that wastes time and resources.

lol at this statement.

I literally don't understand how believe something like that...

I had to read it like 10 times because I was sure I was missing something.

Also, in regards to the original topic.  I think the sentence was too harsh (obviously).  While the action was despicable I can't condone sending a child away to jail for such an extreme amount of time.

I think instead of jail he should have been sent to a mental health facility where they could monitor him and see what made him do it.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Roman on November 19, 2007, 10:11:47 pm
wait guys i just watched Halloween in my film class and if that movie is any indication this kid is nuts and will go on a murdering spree as soon as he's released

xaviar was right let's just kill him
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 20, 2007, 07:01:29 pm
Person #1: "Hey, this girl just got raped, beat up and torn apart!"
Person #2: "Poor child..."
XaviarCraig: "OH NO! Mercy me, oh lord no. The girl must be put down. Right now. HOW, OH HOW CAN SHE EVER LIVE WITH THE BURDEN OF BEING *CHUCKLE* BIASED!!!!11!! Oh and on a sidenote, KILL THE M*TH*RF*CK*R WHO DID IT!!!!1!!!"
Everyone: O_O



Woah.
Jesus Christ. Man, I really hope you aren't serious, because if you ARE then I really fucking lost my hope for humanity.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: yugi on November 20, 2007, 07:30:22 pm
If I wanted to be compassionate, I would have said the girl should be destroyed as well since she probably wont carry her own weight in society... ever. Such a person is merely a hindrance that wastes time and resources.
Haha, wow. That is maybe the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say.
Something similar happened to me when I was around 5-6, minus getting beaten up/nearly killed (although I have been beaten up worse than that too, when I was... 9 maybe 10 some kid threw a stone at me, I grabbed a handful and threw them in his general direction, and hit some man in the process, the guy jumped on the roof I was on, which was about as high as a 2nd story window, beat me up and then threw me off of it, onto a solid concrete floor). Maybe it is because I am a male and males think differently from females, but I don't really care. It happened 14-15 years ago and I hardly even remember anything about it, other than one of my aunts friends kidnapped me and did dirty things to me (she was around 18 at the time). But I guess because that happened to me I am a hinderance to society and a waste of time/resources and I should be destroyed or something?
Sorry to inform you, but not only do I have a job and pay taxes, but I don't think I have ever required more time and "resources" anywhere. Not in school, not in my everyday life and not in my workplace.

:[ Maybe I should go and kill myself now because when I was younger some hot older woman decided to snatch me away and fiddle around with me. (Haha, personally I wish more older women would snatch me away and fiddle around with me!!)
But seriously, other than maybe giving me a disliking for teenage girls in general I don't think what happened to me has effected me in any way at all and definately not in such a serious way that would require me to be removed from society (and the world!).

Anyway. If you ask me the punishment the kid got was way to harsh. Getting out of prison by the time he is 21 isn't harsh enough, but putting him in prison for what could be the rest of his life is way to harsh. I've seen people commit worse crimes than that, a lot worse, and they've gotten off with a lot less.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: EvilDemonCreature on November 20, 2007, 10:29:41 pm
Because we are all human beings and we deserve to be treated as such. We are (or should be) exempt from receiving inhumane punishment, such as death, when we do something wrong.

Actually, here is something I've been meaning to ask for a while now. What exactly makes death an inhumane punishment? Hell, I'll go further, what makes death a punishment in the first place? I mean, I can understand why we as a society would evolve to beleive death is a bad thing, since the people who beleive it are more likely to live long enough to have kids and pass the beleif onto them. But do we actually have an objective basis for which to judge the act of deing as "wrong"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be justified in killing people, I'm just saying is there any information out there that shows us we aren't doing the guy a favor by killing him (I know nobody here would want the guy to die if it turned out death was actually a good thing!),
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 20, 2007, 10:53:21 pm
death is a punishement because nobody wants to die, I think it's that simple.
of course there is people who want to,but to them it wouldn't be a punishement, right?
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Lars on November 20, 2007, 11:03:00 pm
death is a punishement because nobody wants to die, I think it's that simple.
of course there is people who want to,but to them it wouldn't be a punishement, right?
So castrating is punishment? Or severing other body parts?

Or how about this, killing the convicted's children? Do you consider that punishment as well?

Get some fucking perspective.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 20, 2007, 11:25:29 pm
of course it's a punishement, not a legal one around here, but still a punishement, going to bed without dessert is a punishement aswell.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 21, 2007, 07:06:34 am
Actually, here is something I've been meaning to ask for a while now. What exactly makes death an inhumane punishment? Hell, I'll go further, what makes death a punishment in the first place?
Well, what you're doing is not just robbing someone of his life, but also of his ability to enjoy life, his ability to procreate, his ability to better his life and make up for his mistakes, as well as his ability to finish whatever he wanted to do while alive. That's not exactly a nice prospect. And you can't ever undo it; even when it's been proven that the person you executed was not guilty.

The reason why it's inhumane, though, is not only because of this, but also because every human being has a right to life, and nobody should have the authority to take that away.* This is a well-known concept that is present in several human rights treaties as well.
(I know nobody here would want the guy to die if it turned out death was actually a good thing!),
How do you "know"? Like I posted before, a punishment is not just about retribution. Its main reasons include incapacitation, deterrence and rehabilitation as well.

It's a bit more complicated than just taking revenge on the perpetrator.

*: The "right to life" should not be misinterpreted as a "duty to live".
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 21, 2007, 07:16:44 am
Well, what you're doing is not just robbing someone of his life, but also of his ability to enjoy life, his ability to procreate, his ability to better his life and make up for his mistakes, as well as his ability to finish whatever he wanted to do while alive. That's not exactly a nice prospect. And you can't ever undo it; even when it's been proven that the person you executed was not guilty.

The reason why it's inhumane, though, is not only because of this, but also because every human being has a right to life, and nobody should have the authority to take that away.* This is a well-known concept that is present in several human rights treaties as well.How do you "know"? Like I posted before, a punishment is not just about retribution. Its main reasons include incapacitation, deterrence and rehabilitation as well.

It's a bit more complicated than just taking revenge on the perpetrator.

*: The "right to life" should not be misinterpreted as a "duty to live".
I think he was actually saying 'what makes life better than death' since none of us knows what happens in death. It could be gum drops and lollipops and therefore not a punishment at all.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 21, 2007, 09:23:17 am
Actually, here is something I've been meaning to ask for a while now. What exactly makes death an inhumane punishment? Hell, I'll go further, what makes death a punishment in the first place? I mean, I can understand why we as a society would evolve to beleive death is a bad thing, since the people who beleive it are more likely to live long enough to have kids and pass the beleif onto them. But do we actually have an objective basis for which to judge the act of deing as "wrong"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be justified in killing people, I'm just saying is there any information out there that shows us we aren't doing the guy a favor by killing him (I know nobody here would want the guy to die if it turned out death was actually a good thing!),
.... Are you trying to say that removing someone's existance from this world/destroying it completely is not a punishment because "LOL WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT END UP BEING A GOOD THING LOLOLO"
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: GirlBones on November 21, 2007, 11:43:44 am
Something this topic has made me think about:

One of the things I hate about the death penalty is reading about the victim's families after a death sentence is commuted. In nearly every article on that kind of event, there's a little blurb where some family member of the victim says something like "blah blah blah he killed my uncle/baby/mistress he needs to die not be in prison where is justice every day he is alive i cry our fambly needs closure blah blah blah..."

I fucking hate having to read that shit.

Also, there is some horrible, horrible rhetoric occurring in this topic.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Lars on November 21, 2007, 01:42:23 pm
My definition of "dead weight" is someone who can not function in society without constantly using more than they produce. A semi retarded high school drop out that becomes a grocery store clerk for the rest of his life is NOT dead weight. A woman who constantly needs meds and therapy just to live each day with out a nervous break down without a job IS.
You're classifying people by their industrial worth. How much money they make/take for/from the system. You know what kind of people actually believe in that shit?

You seriously need to reconsider your moral views. Because right now, it seems money is the only kind of moral base you have. And to be frank, your last few posts actually made me nauseous (not the idea, but the fact that a person can honestly believe that stuff), and I have never experienced that at GW ever before. This is like the most morally disgusting shit I've read on here ever. I've read similar on youtube but I've pretty much discounted them. Reading stuff like that on GW is pretty shocking though.

The point of living isn't making society money. It's just a ride.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: LORd on November 21, 2007, 01:54:23 pm
.... Are you trying to say that removing someone's existance from this world/destroying it completely is not a punishment because "LOL WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT END UP BEING A GOOD THING LOLOLO"
fatty i just want to say i think you're trying a little too hard to be edgy in this topic.

I think he was actually saying 'what makes life better than death' since none of us knows what happens in death. It could be gum drops and lollipops and therefore not a punishment at all.
Yeah, but I think that EDC and actually anyone'll agree that JUSTICE IS SERVED is the worst possible reason to impose the death sentence on someone. True, if you want to bring RETRIBUTION upon a criminal, you'd want him to feel pretty miserable after death, but as he's dead you can't exactly verify whether his eventual torment adds up in some universal scale of justice. The death sentence is really only there for permanently erasing problems of the society (which, I'd hope, most people find less preferrable to solving them.)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Camlon on November 21, 2007, 03:11:01 pm
You're classifying people by their industrial worth. How much money they make/take for/from the system. You know what kind of people actually believe in that shit?

You seriously need to reconsider your moral views. Because right now, it seems money is the only kind of moral base you have. And to be frank, your last few posts actually made me nauseous (not the idea, but the fact that a person can honestly believe that stuff), and I have never experienced that at GW ever before. This is like the most morally disgusting shit I've read on here ever. I've read similar on youtube but I've pretty much discounted them. Reading stuff like that on GW is pretty shocking though.

The point of living isn't making society money. It's just a ride.
I thought he was sarcastic to show that if we used the same logic towards the girl as the boy, then we should destroy her as well. Someone pointed out that the boy will most likely be a burden to the society and the girl will probably be a burden as well.

But he was serious, oh well... that's worse.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Lars on November 21, 2007, 03:21:50 pm
oh

if that was sarcastic that was actually pretty fucking excellent
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: cowardknower on November 21, 2007, 04:28:10 pm
i LOVE how everybody who said
I AM DONE WITH THIS TOPIC MOTHERFUCKS
came back and posted again several times
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: fatty on November 21, 2007, 06:25:29 pm
fatty i just want to say i think you're trying a little too hard to be edgy in this topic.
:fogetsmile:
i LOVE how everybody who said
I AM DONE WITH THIS TOPIC MOTHERFUCKS
came back and posted again several times
everybody=just me right?


I think that the more GW realises that that Youtube hate-morality is coming here, the better because then we will be ready to face threats like KK4 and XaviarCraig, despite the fact that some people haven't realised the importance of the situation yet.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 21, 2007, 07:15:17 pm
fatty i just want to say i think you're trying a little too hard to be edgy in this topic.
He's right though. Doubting whether capital punishment is severe or not based on the fact you don't know what happens in the afterlife is pretty astonishingly stupid.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: cowardknower on November 21, 2007, 07:47:39 pm
doesnt killing someone amount to, as far as we know, infinite punishment?  wouldnt it be overdoing it for a finite offense?

<edit> oops off topic
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Pepoke on November 21, 2007, 07:52:53 pm
Punishment should be about teaching someone a lesson. I dunno know about you, but if I was executed for doing something wrong I wouldnt of learned anything, you know, because Id be dead. I rather have someone imprisoned for 60 years than sentenced to death, because those 60 years gives him a choice to turn his life around[and ][/and], with execution its like YOU SCREW UP ONCE YOU DIE.

And dont get me wrong, Im not supporting the 60 year sentence. Im merely using it in comparision to death.

Edit: I also agree with the things that Dada said. Death is best left by natural causes, and we should have no control over it, imo.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on November 21, 2007, 09:03:27 pm
Wrong, punishment means punishment, not teaching.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 21, 2007, 09:21:03 pm
Wrong, punishment means punishment, not teaching.
Everybody who had been involved in founding modern civilization disagrees with you.

(Since you didn't give any arguments, I guess I don't need to do that either, but it's still true.)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Cray on November 21, 2007, 09:29:39 pm
punishement as always been about teaching of course, it's itls ultimate function, as a kid, when you're grounded or sent to bed without eating, it's because your parents want you to learn that you did something bad, and therefore not to do it again. when you're setn to prison, is just the same. when you get killed, you can't learn anything.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Pepoke on November 21, 2007, 09:33:59 pm
Wrong, punishment means punishment, not teaching.
Well thats dumb. Thats like saying spank a child just to spank him, not to teach him not to steal a cookie from the jar again[thats ][/thats], hypothetically speaking.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: LORd on November 22, 2007, 03:03:26 pm
:fogetsmile:​everybody=just me right?
I think you'll find that Couch posted after me! But beyond that I have no idea what you're trying to tell me.

He's right though. Doubting whether capital punishment is severe or not based on the fact you don't know what happens in the afterlife is pretty astonishingly stupid.
You're correct, but I was just wondering if I'm really the only one bothered by how aggressive fatty suddenly became in this thread? I just find it slightly unbecoming of him to make what are essentially misappropriated The Truth posts.

Did I accidentally slip some lecturing mod tone in there? I only meant it as a personal aside and kind of regret it now since I didn't expect it to deviate this much.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on November 22, 2007, 06:15:14 pm
Everybody who had been involved in founding modern civilization disagrees with you.

(Since you didn't give any arguments, I guess I don't need to do that either, but it's still true.)


Quote
Well thats dumb. Thats like saying spank a child just to spank him, not to teach him not to steal a cookie from the jar again[thats called child abuse, btw], hypothetically speaking.

Well, I think punishment is a way to pay for your crimes and for the loss you caused, it's not like spanking children for eating a cookie. The government is not your father.

Giving chance for rehabilitation is a different story, I'm talking about prison.  Of course it has a teaching side but it's mainly about punishing you.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 22, 2007, 07:08:33 pm
Well, I think
I think a lot of things, too.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Kaempfer on November 22, 2007, 07:11:23 pm
Everybody who had been involved in founding modern civilization disagrees with you.

(Since you didn't give any arguments, I guess I don't need to do that either, but it's still true.)

You will probably totally destroy me in any argument, but: I wouldn't say they are correct in their assumptions that punishment=teaching, as crime rates are steadily increasing every year, with more and more repeat offenders. Obviously they are socio-economic reasons and factors in this, but it still stands to reason that the penal system does not work very well. I am not saying I have a better system, but it still doesn't work very well.

Punishment is usually used as a deterrent rather than rehabilitation, with regards to prison. More people are deterred by jail or the prospect of returning to jail than are "fixed" by the system.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: XaviarCraig on November 23, 2007, 12:10:56 am
I just noticed alot of people are quoting my posts BEFORE I admitted they were probably bad ideas... Did you people miss the 2nd post on the 4th page of this thread? I openly admitted my ideas were wrong and disregarded them. Zeratul's points convinced me I had the wrong approach, therefore I revoked all previous thoughts/ideas.... Just thought I would point this out seeing as people are still acting like I stand firmly by what I said earlier....
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: olrox on November 23, 2007, 06:54:50 am
Raping a little girl?! Thats teh worst act that someone can do to a children, all that bastards deserve to die!!!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on November 23, 2007, 07:06:55 am
Raping a little girl?! Thats teh worst act that someone can do to a children, all that bastards deserve to die!!!
HE STILL IS A CHILDREN!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 23, 2007, 07:12:05 am
You will probably totally destroy me in any argument, but: I wouldn't say they are correct in their assumptions that punishment=teaching, as crime rates are steadily increasing every year, with more and more repeat offenders. Obviously they are socio-economic reasons and factors in this, but it still stands to reason that the penal system does not work very well. I am not saying I have a better system, but it still doesn't work very well.

Punishment is usually used as a deterrent rather than rehabilitation, with regards to prison. More people are deterred by jail or the prospect of returning to jail than are "fixed" by the system.
I'm not saying deterrence isn't a factor, I'm saying that it's not just about one thing. Like I explained before, there are several functions a punishment given by the state fulfills. It's not all black and white.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: olrox on November 23, 2007, 07:16:34 am
HE STILL IS A CHILDREN!
Sorry, i cannot explained my self, i mean big guys that makes that kind of terrible things
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: ReloadXPsi on November 23, 2007, 10:21:54 am
He can rot for an eternity for all I care. Kidnapped, raped and abused a 6 year old? No compassion from me.

Précisement. Say bye bye to your life, kiddo. It's too bad they couldn't just give him the chair or something.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 23, 2007, 08:17:07 pm
I was gonna post something about how I think Psi's has a terrible opinion, but since we're just bouncing back and forth at this point, it makes more sense to just end it all.

Sayonara!
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 23, 2007, 08:45:05 pm
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1784/inbeforelockjp0.jpg)
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: ase on November 23, 2007, 08:47:11 pm
quick, someone post that horrible animated Star Trek gif probably from 4chan or something of that dude sliding underneath the closing door lock
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Sarah on November 23, 2007, 08:54:02 pm
quick, someone post that horrible animated Star Trek gif probably from 4chan or something of that dude sliding underneath the closing door lock
look i drew a picture
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: Drule on November 23, 2007, 08:55:57 pm
Précisement. Say bye bye to your life, kiddo. It's too bad they couldn't just give him the chair or something.
You are really stupid.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: ase on November 23, 2007, 09:07:34 pm
Myke, I am going to use that every time. Thanks!

Also, I would like to say that I agree with Drule, but I'm afraid that it might be excessive flaming. Instead, I will point out that Everyone Is Entitled To Their Opinion on these Gaming World Free Speech Forums.
Title: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6
Post by: dada on November 23, 2007, 09:08:49 pm
Oops. I was playing chess while posting about how I was going to lock the topic, and managed to forget about it completely!

Sorry!