Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Furretsu on November 24, 2007, 09:15:43 pm
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What bands do you guys think "sold out"? (I know the phrase has different meanings, so for our purposes we'll just say it's intentionally making music just for money and popularity.)
I'd like to nominate a band for the list of World's Biggest Sellouts. That band would be Within Temptation - a band that came quite a long way from its gothic and symphonic roots. Their popularity began with the second single from their second LP, Mother Earth. The song, my friends, is none other than Ice Queen (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CGszdHVb2UY). Upon listening, you'll instantly notice the choral effects in the background among the other symphonic instruments. It almost sounds like a slightly lighter Nightwish.
Two albums later, we have The Heart of Everything. Despite liking this band and album (I consider Within Temptation my favorite band), I had to admit this was one hell of a step down.
I'll let the single "What Have You Done" do the talking for me. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=NrfUckNsGHM)
Yes, that is the same band. Yes, they did get a thrash metal guest vocalist. Yes, it sounds like a carbon copy of Evanescence.
So! Because this is such an interesting subject, why don't you guys share who you think the World's Biggest Sellout is?
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Metallica
1981 - 1989
RIP
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The Butthole Surfers. At first, they were this really great, weird, noisy, fucked-up band. Then suddenly they signed to a major, started courting the MTV crowd, toned down the weirdness, and just turned into another bad heavy-metal group. 'Depressing' isn't the word...
Also the Dead Kennedys, who've started touring again with some shitty ex-child-star instead of Jello Biafra (the singer).
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I always thought Scarsick from Pain of Salvation was sort of their "sellout" album but you can't really make a sellout in the progressive metal genre because it's so unpopular :P
Most of the artists I listen to keep it pretty honest and the only one I like that I can think of that has TRULY sold out is Within Temptation. They used to be pretty much exclusively symphonic metal but obviously have moved on to sport a more "Evanescence " sound. I don't like it. :fogetshifty:
EDIT: Okay I've actually had the chance to listen to their newest album (WT) and it actually is not a sellout album in the sense that they are pushing for a more mainstream sound. It sounds just like... like every other WT album.
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The Butthole Surfers play heavy-metal? News to me!!
Also the word Sellout is thrown around a lot. Too often. I'm not sure if I could honestly point a finger at any one band and say that they sold out. :\
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I have no idea who Within Temptation is, so they must not be that big of sellouts.
But, I think that big time obvious sellouts would be bands like Blink-182, Fall Out Boy, Good Charlotte, etc.
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The thing I don't really like about the word "sellout" is that it implies with its common usage that a band cannot make good music any more because they change their style. In Flames and Metallica are two really good examples here, both put out my favorite albums by them after their old fans said they "sold out" Load and Re-Load were amazing pieces of music, Reroute to Remain as well, and yet because a band decided to change their style and play what THEY wanted (regardless of the reason) everyone jumps up their asses. If a band decides to change their style in order to sell more records, they have a right to do that, THEY make the music, not the fans. If you don't like their new sound, don't buy their new albums, don't go see them in concert. Sit around and listen to their old stuff. Or you can listen to their new stuff and see what is good and bad about it when you aren't in a OMG H8 BANDSELLOUT111 mood.
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The thing I don't really like about the word "sellout" is that it implies with its common usage that a band cannot make good music any more because they change their style. In Flames and Metallica are two really good examples here, both put out my favorite albums by them after their old fans said they "sold out" Load and Re-Load were amazing pieces of music, Reroute to Remain as well, and yet because a band decided to change their style and play what THEY wanted (regardless of the reason) everyone jumps up their asses. If a band decides to change their style in order to sell more records, they have a right to do that, THEY make the music, not the fans. If you don't like their new sound, don't buy their new albums, don't go see them in concert. Sit around and listen to their old stuff. Or you can listen to their new stuff and see what is good and bad about it when you aren't in a OMG H8 BANDSELLOUT111 mood.
Can I have your babies, please.
He is right though, For example, Avenged Sevenfold (hear me out, I don't like this band, but they are a perfect example) during their earlier days, they played more like the generic metalcore stuff (Sounding the Seventh Trumpet, Waking the Fallen, etc.), but then they put out City of Evil. Alot of there older fans called them sell-outs and some of the people who use to hate them loved their new stuff. Now, their new release (Self-Titled) made some of their new fans call them Sell-Outs, while others praised it. The thing not to many of their "fans" took into account was that the band themselves made City of Evil to depart from their Generic Metalcore sound and do something they wanted, and with Their Self-Titled (which was self produced with minimal label influence) was them trying to mature their sound because they wanted to control their music, and yet people again lashed at them for trying something different. Change is unavoidable. Bands change, and people need to accept that. Like jeff said, if you don't like their new stuff, don't listen to it. Why not spend that time you argue about why they sold out to listen to the stuff you do like.
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I dunno, it's kind of depressing that Bjork's new album has the same producer as SEXYBACK
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the rolling stones
fucking tickets sold for EUR450/each
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Jeff is 100% correct. There's a fine quote from Kirk Hammett on apparently 'selling out'.
"Sold out?! Sure we sold out, last tour we sold out almost everywhere we played!"
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I dunno, it's kind of depressing that Bjork's new album has the same producer as SEXYBACK
sexyback is a song that plays on the radio and says "motherfucker" and mentions bdsm
sexyback is a good thing ragnar
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but sexyback is pop!!!!!!
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Jeff has a really good point. I personally think that St. Anger sucked pretty damn badly. But I dont think they sold out just cuz they are doing more of a generic hard rock sound. Though at the same time,a lot of people think they sold out when they made the music video for One. Apparently, back in the day they said they werent going to make music videos. I know a lot of people think they sold out since they went back on their word. But oh well, One is a good video.
As for naming a band that I do think sold out. What about Good Charlotte. They sang about being individuals and all that shit, but their sound and even message has been heard by like half of the damn bands that have been out since 2000. Also didn't they have a big part in the MTV show Undergrads? It was a good show and all. But I dont really see being an individual and all that shit, than being part of a big company who has also lost their way.
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I don't think St. Anger was an issue of selling out. They were "selling out" in the common sense of the word, I think they would have put out something that people wanted to listen to. :confused:
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Though at the same time,a lot of people think they sold out when they made the music video for One. Apparently, back in the day they said they werent going to make music videos. I know a lot of people think they sold out since they went back on their word.
Man I've heard this one from a few people, and I came to a conclusion once:
Compromising your artistic expression for the sake of keeping it true is just that, it's compromising your artistic expression.
I've come to realise the term SELLING OUT is misused a lot. Selling out has nothing to do with making music more or less available, really. It's about compromising your music for the purpose of wider reach. There's a huge difference between those two. If they'd made a song that was 80% chorus that anyone could sing to and scrap any plans for solos or interlude for the case of making it a huge hit, they'd be sellouts. I don't think Metallica ever really sold out, but they did make themselves a lot more available.
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I dunno, it's kind of depressing that Bjork's new album has the same producer as SEXYBACK
yeah, JUST ONE TRACK you jackass, the album was almost entirely produced by herself. Artists do that all the time (Mike Patton is one who always has guest producers on tracks). That album is still fucking awesome though, Its not as good as Medulla though (which is produced by Mike Patton).
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Its not as good as Medulla though (which is produced by Mike Patton).
Honestly, an artist produced once by Mike Patton will probably never make a better album that is not produced by him.
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Man I've heard this one from a few people, and I came to a conclusion once:
Compromising your artistic expression for the sake of keeping it true is just that, it's compromising your artistic expression.
I've come to realise the term SELLING OUT is misused a lot. Selling out has nothing to do with making music more or less available, really. It's about compromising your music for the purpose of wider reach. There's a huge difference between those two. If they'd made a song that was 80% chorus that anyone could sing to and scrap any plans for solos or interlude for the case of making it a huge hit, they'd be sellouts. I don't think Metallica ever really sold out, but they did make themselves a lot more available.
Yeah good call. I don't wanna think they've sold out cuz they are my favourite band. But ever since The Black Album, they've made themselves A LOT more radio friendly. In the sense that they don't have as many really hard, 7, 8 or 10 minute songs and have less instrumental interludes and solos. Personally, my favourite stuff came from Kill'em All all the way through Master of Puppets. Which is only 3 albums, but I loved the sound, and hate what St. Anger was. I can only hope the newst album will go back to that, but I doubt it. They need to do another instrumental song. Anethesia, Call of Ktulu and Orion all kick ass.
But I guess back to the point, maybe people felt that Metallica sold out because, back in the Ride the lightning and Master of Puppet days, they didn't have a great number of radio singles and no music videos. So people might have liked them more, cuz not too many people knew about them? Like they were kinda underground still? But after making their first video and then with the Black Album, they were mainstream friendly and all over the radios and tvs. Though that's my speculation. I wasn't old enough back then to know if that's actually true or not lol.
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the mars volta lol
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metallica just sold out to another level
they are releasing their new single through that rock band game
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the mars volta lol
are you serious
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But, I think that big time obvious sellouts would be bands like Blink-182, Fall Out Boy, Good Charlotte, etc.
Are you kidding me? None of those bands "sold out".
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Are you kidding me? None of those bands "sold out".
I think they all did change quite a bit, I don't know enough about Good Charlotte but I do know Fall Out Boy and Blink 182 have been accused of doing this multiple times.
Blink 182's last album was really emo.
I would say Metallica mainly I know heaps of bands which are getting shittier with time (Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy, Dj Shadow) but I don't think they are really selling out, just changing with whatever suits them.
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All of those bands progressed, in a pretty logical way, too.
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metallica just sold out to another level
they are releasing their new single through that rock band game
this is disgusting :(
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I would say Kiss, but I don't think ever really done anything for any reason besides making money, so I can't really consider them a sellout.
That one album Jewel made is probably the berst example I can think of.
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I would say Kiss, but I don't think ever really done anything for any reason besides making money, so I can't really consider them a sellout.
That one album Jewel made is probably the berst example I can think of.
Kiss is probably the biggest most accurate example of a sell out band. They made probably just as much money on their music, as they have from merchandise. Not just shirts, and the normal things bands do for merchandise. But they had EVERYTHING in KISS. Watch an episode of Gene Simmons' Family Jewels, just once if you want proof of the kinda crap they have no problem selling with thier name or face on it.
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mozart
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It's official Tay Zonday has soldout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x2W12A8Qow
It is pretty disgusting, not that he's all that great to start out with
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Honestly, an artist produced once by Mike Patton will probably never make a better album that is not produced by him.
any album produced by steve albini is inherently better than any album produced by mike patton
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Kiss is probably the biggest most accurate example of a sell out band. They made probably just as much money on their music, as they have from merchandise. Not just shirts, and the normal things bands do for merchandise. But they had EVERYTHING in KISS. Watch an episode of Gene Simmons' Family Jewels, just once if you want proof of the kinda crap they have no problem selling with thier name or face on it.
Kiss pinball *shudder*
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Kiss is probably the biggest most accurate example of a sell out band. They made probably just as much money on their music, as they have from merchandise. Not just shirts, and the normal things bands do for merchandise. But they had EVERYTHING in KISS. Watch an episode of Gene Simmons' Family Jewels, just once if you want proof of the kinda crap they have no problem selling with thier name or face on it.
Yeah but this was what Kiss were always about, there was little-to-no change.
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It's official Tay Zonday has soldout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x2W12A8Qow
It is pretty disgusting, not that he's all that great to start out with
man
are you+all the people commenting that video serious about him being a sellout?
this guy went from being an artist of 0 calibre before to being an artist of 0 calibre now.
nothing changed.
the old song wasnt any kind of good, sounded like something he just shit out on a whim.
if anything, this new one was a step up.
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and it has tv smashing and hot womens
edit: AND OH MY GANGTA RAPPIN
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most people just get pissy whenever their precious underground sweethearts suddenly get recognised by the general public and don't feel so special and exclusive anymore. that's why "sell out" has got such a completely negative connotation, cos most people who complain about bands who do it don't really give a shit about why it's lame. and it is lame, but i don't see how it's even important. if a band is stupid enough to really sell themselves out, then they were always stupid and you shouldn't give a shit anyway.
for instance with RHCP, these guys used to be my ultimate favourite guys ever and i ate their whole scene up, read kiedis' book and everything. then with all the shit they pulled around stadium arcadium and the album itself, i could now give no less of a shit about these guys! even john, who had been my main man for years. their old music doesn't interest me anymore. sure they have some good sounding tracks, but i don't feel like listening to them anymore.
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If I didn't say it before Merzbow because he did an album with BEATS
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I think The Offspring didn't do anything wrong until 2000.
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I don't think its truly selling out if a band commercialises its sound more.
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I don't think its truly selling out if a band commercialises its sound more.
that is exactly what selling out means.
here's a helpful table
if a band sounds commercial to begin with-> it is impossible for them to sell out
if a band sounds a certain way and gets better-> this is not selling out.
if a band sounds a certain way and sacrifices their sound for mainstream appeal-> this is selling out.
do not confuse the second for the third! the National is accused of the third but instead did the second (imho hahahaha). Chamillionaire cannot sell out because he has always been about stacking paper. Common sold out because he used to be fiercely anti-commercial and afro-centric and now he markets Sketchers.
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I don't think its truly selling out if a band commercialises its sound more.
so says someone with paris hilton in their avatar
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mozart
This was the only thing that made me lol.
I'd definitely say that Saosin started sucking ass when they acquired Cove Reber. Sure, Anthony Green may have an unorthodox voice and high pitch screams, but he was a good frontman. Cove Reber doesn't have nearly the range at all or the lyrical awesomeness of Green. But guess who I heard on the radio a little bit ago with some gay fucking single. That's right. Reber. Not really sure whether I'd call it selling out by Saosin in getting some mediocre talented douche for a new singer or just a bad decision on whoever owned that radio station to put them on the air.
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if a band sounds commercial to begin with-> it is impossible for them to sell out
if a band sounds a certain way and gets better-> this is not selling out.
if a band sounds a certain way and sacrifices their sound for mainstream appeal-> this is selling out.
What about "if a band sounds a certain way and gets worse, but for no reason related to mainstream appeal (like just getting older / run out of ideas / bad idea for a new direction)"?
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What about "if a band sounds a certain way and gets worse, but for no reason related to mainstream appeal (like just getting older / run out of ideas / bad idea for a new direction)"?
it has nothing to do with selling out, they just got worse over time.
lots of bands do this (All comes to mind).
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Aye, I was thinking the same. I wasn't sure what you thought about it though.
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it has nothing to do with selling out, they just got worse over time.
lots of bands do this (All comes to mind).
rofl I just realized it sounds like I was saying all music becomes worse.
I was referring to the band All.
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Haha, I did have to think about it for a second.