Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Clucky on December 11, 2007, 03:18:32 am
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/colorado.shootings/index.html
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- "It seemed like it was me, the gunman, and God," said Jeanne Assam, describing her feelings as she confronted a man who charged into her Colorado Springs church Sunday firing a weapon.
Assam, a church security guard with law enforcement experience, fired her own weapon at the invader and stopped his attack, police say.
Police on Monday identified the gunman as Matthew Murray and said he was also responsible for an attack earlier Sunday at a missionary center some 70 miles away.
The two incidents left four people dead, in addition to the gunman, and five wounded.
Police said forensic evidence showed a positive match between a handgun found at the church and shell casings found at the missionary center in Arvada, a suburb of Denver.
Officials from the Colorado Springs and Arvada police departments appeared at a joint news conference to brief reporters on what they had pieced together about Sunday's events.
The first incident took place Sunday at about 12:30 a.m. at Youth With a Mission in Arvada.
Police said a man with a beard, wearing a dark jacket, glasses, and skullcap, entered the facility, got into a dispute with a staff member about whether he could stay there for the night, and then opened fire.
Two staff members, Tiffany Johnson, 26, and Philip Crouse, 24, died later Sunday from their injuries, Youth With a Mission co-founder Peter Warren said. Two other staff members were injured, and one was in critical condition.
Investigators tried to track the gunman through fresh snow with the help of dogs, but lost his trail in a heavily walked area, Deputy Chief Gary Creager of Arvada police said.
About 12 hours later, police say, Murray showed up at New Life Church as a service was letting out.
He fired on a family who were in or near their car. Two sisters, identified by police as Rachael Works, 16, and Stephanie Works, 18, were killed, and their father, David Works, 51, was also shot and is hospitalized in fair condition with two gunshot wounds.
Murray then entered the church, police say, where Assam was one of several security guards on duty. Video Watch more about Matthew Murray's background »
"I saw him coming through the doors," she told reporters on Monday. "I took cover, and I waited for him to get closer, and I came out of cover and identified myself, and engaged him, and took him down. And that's pretty much it."
Police said they were still investigating whether Assam's weapon killed Murray, or whether he might have died of a self-inflicted gunshot.
A source -- a long-time member of New Life Church -- said Murray had a falling out with Youth With a Mission after working with the organization a couple of years ago. The source said Murray sent antagonistic and threatening correspondence afterward.
No one has spoken publicly on behalf of Murray.
Earlier Monday, Brady Boyd, senior pastor of New Life Church, said the gunman was unknown to parishioners there.
"He simply showed up on our property yesterday with a gun, with the intention of hurting people, and he did," Boyd said.
Boyd said the megachurch instituted security precautions after the shootings at the Denver area mission center.
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Boyd said Assam was a hero in preventing further bloodshed, rushing to confront the gunman just inside the church. "She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said.
Assam said, "I give the credit to God. And I say that very humbly. God was with me and the whole time I was behind cover -- this has got to be God, because of the firepower that [the gunman] had vs. what I had -- was God. I did not run away and I didn't think for a minute to run away, I just knew that I was given the assignment to end this before it got too much worse. I just prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide me."
She told reporters she had not slept since the shooting, "as I'm sure you can tell."
She said she was on the third day of a three-day regimen of fasting and prayer, wanting to know God's will for what to do with her life, when the shooting took place.
"I was weak, and where I was weak, God made me strong," she said. "He filled me and he guided me and protected me and many other people. And I'm honored that God chose me."
Assam was one of about a dozen volunteer security guards at the church, half of whom are armed, Boyd said. The guards are licensed, trained and screened, and are church members, not "mercenaries," he said.
So some guy in Colorado Springs went and shot up a missionary center and a church 12 hours later, but was shot down by a member of the congregation with former law enforcement experience. Four people and the gunman were killed, and five were injured. It's sad that innocent people were killed, but it's nice to finally hear about somebody actually rising up and killing the guy quickly. I also find it funny how she says God was with her the whole time. Praise the lord and pass the ammunition, I suppose.
What are your thoughts on this all?
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She said she was on the third day of a three-day regimen of fasting and prayer, wanting to know God's will for what to do with her life, when the shooting took place.
"I was weak, and where I was weak, God made me strong," she said. "He filled me and he guided me and protected me and many other people. And I'm honored that God chose me."
This is the exact kind of stuff I wouldn't want appearing in articles.
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It's CNN, what'd you expect?
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Christian News Network lololol
Well, I'm glad the shooting wasn't any worse then this. It's good someone was there to put a stop to it.
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how dare cnn report eye witness testimony
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church...security guard?...
well, I'm glad the shooting didn't end up with lots and lots of people dead!
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I don't know what to say and I hope I don't get warned for this but...
Police said a man with a beard, wearing a dark jacket, glasses, and skullcap, entered the facility, got into a dispute with a staff member about whether he could stay there for the night, and then opened fire.
Beard and a skullcap...
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/54690/is205062.jpg)
If he was jewish then could they be omitting this fact on purpose?
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heh, the zionists are up to something.... i can smell it
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i was under the impression some badass priest whipped out a gun and shot him dead in his tracks by the name of the topic :(
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well, at least he was stopped
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awsad
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awsad
Wow what the hell. +1 amirite?
church...security guard?...
This. I have never EVER heard of a church security guard. Also: aren't they not supposed to have guns? I thought their job was to make someone disruptful leave and call the cops if necessary... I didn't know they carried guns or were authorized to use them heaven forbid in a church.
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This. I have never EVER heard of a church security guard. Also: aren't they not supposed to have guns? I thought their job was to make someone disruptful leave and call the cops if necessary... I didn't know they carried guns or were authorized to use them heaven forbid in a church.
Apparently it's a large church, over 1000 members or something. Or at least that's what I got from the article. Those churches usually have security guards, but the whole gun thing kinda caught me off guard too. It might have just been her but I have no idea. But really, in this case, asking the guy to leave probably wouldn't work, and in a life or death situation is doesn't matter whether or not you're authorized to have a gun as long as you're saving lives.
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Apparently it's a large church, over 1000 members or something. Or at least that's what I got from the article. Those churches usually have security guards, but the whole gun thing kinda caught me off guard too. It might have just been her but I have no idea. But really, in this case, asking the guy to leave probably wouldn't work, and in a life or death situation is doesn't matter whether or not you're authorized to have a gun as long as you're saving lives.
There was also a shooting before it, so the church and nearby places may have beefed op security once they heard of the earlier shooting. Yeah, I heard of this earlier. Events like these are terrible.
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Wow what the hell. +1 amirite?
This. I have never EVER heard of a church security guard. Also: aren't they not supposed to have guns? I thought their job was to make someone disruptful leave and call the cops if necessary... I didn't know they carried guns or were authorized to use them heaven forbid in a church.
this is what i thought too, even if i disagree with it completely.
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This is the exact kind of stuff I wouldn't want appearing in articles.
Oh, no, how dare they report interviews accurately. Seriously, it's an article on an incident in a church, so what do you expect? Seriously? Take your anti religious shtick elsewhere, it's tiring.
Anyway, I'm not surprised that the church has armed security in such a large congregation and with an earlier incident before it. It's a shame that has to be the case, but it's a necessity I suppose.
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The sad thing here, to me, is that this is the kind of occurrence that gun nuts will point to, saying that there is a need for them to have weapons. Sure, if someone does start to shoot all around him, it'd be pretty nice if you could just take him out before he is able to kill anymore people, but in reality, it's a bit more complex than that. If America hadn't had such a big need for weapons in the first place, the country would most likely not be plagued by shootings so often. There's more than enough evidence that solidifies the link between guns and gun attacks, but of course, hardly anybody is willing to look closely enough.
Instead, people state that they should protect themselves because there's so much gun-related crime. Which is like paying off a loan with a new loan.
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I'm one of the first Americans who would rally for anti gun laws, but then you'd have the scores of American's rallying against what would be taking away their Constitutional rights. It's a shame really, but I don't see how the government could do that without some Deus Ex-esque nation wide armed revolt.
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I'm one of the first Americans who would rally for anti gun laws, but then you'd have the scores of American's rallying against what would be taking away their Constitutional rights. It's a shame really, but I don't see how the government could do that without some Deus Ex-esque nation wide armed revolt.
It's simply a big undertaking, similar to moving out of Iraq, that you have to plan out carefully and execute in several stages. You can't just decide on one day that you're going to revolt the country, much like you can't just collectively leave Iraq on one day (no matter how badly Ron Paul would want to).
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My friend was actually AT this church when it happened. Craziness.
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It's simply a big undertaking, similar to moving out of Iraq, that you have to plan out carefully and execute in several stages. You can't just decide on one day that you're going to revolt the country, much like you can't just collectively leave Iraq on one day (no matter how badly Ron Paul would want to).
That's true. Just as you'd said, I figure if it were ever going to happen, it would have to be done in a very gradual manner that would be implemented over time. Something so the general public would easily accept it and hopefully wouldn't notice it. How long would an undertaking like that take, though? As funny as it seems now, our right to have guns is quite a large founding aspect of our country.
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My friend was actually AT this church when it happened. Craziness.
Does he still plan to go to the church? I was kinda wondering how members of the church would react. I for one would probably go find a different, smaller church less likely to get shot up after something like this. Did he know anyone who was shot?
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Oh, no, how dare they report interviews accurately. Seriously, it's an article on an incident in a church, so what do you expect? Seriously? Take your anti religious shtick elsewhere, it's tiring.
Yes. You are right.
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WOW security guards at a fucking church, that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
And hell, it might just be me but that lady did sound a bit zealotic.
WWJD???
UNLOAD ON SOME JEW
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I don't see how having guards on a church would be stupid, but oh well... (And this case clearly proves it isn't)
Additionally, I agree with Drule. Here in Chile atm, the government along with the police and several organizations are making campaigns for people to hand-in their guns.
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The sad thing here, to me, is that this is the kind of occurrence that gun nuts will point to, saying that there is a need for them to have weapons.
If everyone has a gun, then everyone can defend against the crazies who also have guns. Sounds like a pretty valid point to me.
Does he still plan to go to the church? I was kinda wondering how members of the church would react. I for one would probably go find a different, smaller church less likely to get shot up after something like this. Did he know anyone who was shot?
That kind of defeats the purpose of having faith. If you truly believe in God, then you have nothing to fear and you'll continue going to church. It's not like crazy hobos attack cathedrals on a daily basis.
WOW security guards at a fucking church, that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
And yet it saved the lives of probably dozens of people. Who knows how many rounds that guy had or how hell bent he was on taking people down.
Gamingw, I think you know what must be done.
VOTE RON PAUL
2008
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WOW security guards at a fucking church, that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
Then you don't go to enough churches.
It's not THAT uncommon for large churches to have security guards of some nature. It's not just about some loser coming in to shoot up the church; in a large congregation sometimes you get crazy people, not to mention when people come in late they know where the empty seats are (which isn't a big deal in a smaller church but can be quite disruptive in a big church when you have people wandering around looking for seats). Not to mention you've got people who will go around and ask people for money and such.
Churches need security just like any other venue. Large concerts have security. Large job fairs sometimes have security. Stores beef up security on days where they expect large numbers of people. Whenever you have a large amount of people in a space, it's not a bad idea to have a few people around to make sure things don't get crazy.
Nothing stupid about that.
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If everyone has a gun, then everyone can defend against the crazies who also have guns. Sounds like a pretty valid point to me.
Wait, I didn't know George Bush was a member... And I definitely wouldn't have guessed that his user name made him out to be black!
If everyone had a gun and some ammunition, then not only would every sane and law abiding person have one, but every criminal and psycho would too, so gun related deaths would increase and so would gun crime.
I'm not going to say that guns should be completely outlawed as I'm OK with the police and security services having them (just as long as they don't shoot innocent people seven times in the face, claim they were terrorists, claim that they looked like terrorists when they find out they aren't, photoshop their picture to make them look like a terrorist and so on, which is what our police service does :P), but ownership and \ or usage should be regulated.
WOW security guards at a fucking church, that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
Why is this stupid?
I'd say it was a very good idea, and I'm an atheist, so about 90% of the people in that church probably think I'm going to hell :/
If this had happened in Texas, I wonder how many people would have shot him... (going by the Family Guy stereotype of Texas state law stating that you get a free gun with every bottle of Jack Daniels)
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If everyone has a gun, then everyone can defend against the crazies who also have guns. Sounds like a pretty valid point to me.
or maybe it would just lead to petty arguments turning into gunfights. honestly reasoning like this is dumb as hell.
Instead' date=' people state that they should protect themselves because there's so much gun-related crime. Which is like paying off a loan with a new loan.[/quote']
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Here is my stance on gun rights:
Giving everyone a gun is like given them a computer and teaching them how to pirate movies/music/games.
Yeah, it puts everyone on an equal playing feild, and helps them when it comes to the gun carrying "crazies", but we have no idea how many people that are currently moral without guns would turn immoral with a gun. (or more importantly how many people who are currently immoral with a gun would be moral without) It's been proven that the only thing that keeps some people from stealing is the lack of capability without implication (myself included), the same can be said for gun crime. I mean, in a world where EVERYONE has a gun, how afraid would you be of getting arrested? All you would need is more freinds than there are people in the police force.
It's the whole argument for gun control that gun enthusaists just don't understand. There are people who are willing to do gun crime that aren't willing to go to through the trouble of getting one illegally. If you don't see that as a valid point, then you have a pretty narrow view of human psychology (seriously, I first learned this shit in a high-school elective course. It's pretty basic stuff, and I don't see why gun control advocates don't bring it up more often).
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If everyone has a gun, then everyone can defend against the crazies who also have guns. Sounds like a pretty valid point to me.
I wonder when people will start complaining that they need to have fully automatic machine guns in order to protect themselves more easily!
But then again, that's why everybody's voting for Wrong Paul, right?
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Here is my stance on gun rights:
Giving everyone a gun is like given them a computer and teaching them how to pirate movies/music/games.
Except that you cannot use a computer to go around shooting up schools and churches
I don't think preventing EVERYONE from owning guns is right either, but there are some people that just shouldn't have access to them.
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Except that you cannot use a computer to go around shooting up schools and churches
we'll see what the new GTA has to say about that ;)
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I mean, in a world where EVERYONE has a gun, how afraid would you be of getting arrested? All you would need is more freinds than there are people in the police force.
But what if my friends turned on me? Guns are like the ultimate check and balance. If everyone is armed, then you know what they're capable of thus you'll have less inclination of messing with them. Would you go into a pharmacy intending to rob the place knowing full well without a doubt that the clerk is packing heat? You might still do it, but your hesitation can work against you.
If everyone had a gun and some ammunition, then not only would every sane and law abiding person have one, but every criminal and psycho would too, so gun related deaths would increase and so would gun crime.
But sane and law abiding persons outnumber the insane by a huge factor. Eventually you'll just end up weeding out that factor.
or maybe it would just lead to petty arguments turning into gunfights. honestly reasoning like this is dumb as hell.
I have your reasoning right here. His name is Heckler and Koch 9mm. We can solve our problems in a back alley and rest assured one of us will be right in the end, yes?
Instead, people state that they should protect themselves because there's so much gun-related crime. Which is like paying off a loan with a new loan.
Except the new loan is only worth a quarter of the previous loan's interest.
I wonder when people will start complaining that they need to have fully automatic machine guns in order to protect themselves more easily!
Would you fuck with me if I had an M16A1 slung over my shoulder? I mean, you don't threaten a police officer with a rock, do you?
Giving everyone a gun is like given them a computer and teaching them how to pirate movies/music/games.
Computers weren't designed for pirating just like guns weren't designed to murder. The end result of having a gun makes some people use it for means other than hunting or protection, but the end result of having a computer means that some people use it to steal. The pencil was designed to write but I sure as hell can jam it in your eye and then claim that pencil's kill.
Look, just vote for the right man (or woman)...
Of course, the right man (or woman) is Ron Paul.
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/180px-Ronpaul1.jpg)
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as far as gun control goes I think we should just place more restrictions on who can own a gun
so more thorough background checks, longer and more difficult process to obtain a permit etc etc (also psychological stability should be a factor.. people with serious personality disorders such as anti-social pd or borderline pd should not own firearms)
oh and yeah I dont know what to think about this.. yeah it sucks that 4 people died but I have some reservations about fundies so yeah I'm trying to ignore their complete backwardsness and intolerance and instead focus on the fact that they are just human beings who died for no reason. It is a struggle for me still.. I dont know why
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What's there to be torn about? They're Christians, not serial killers.
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guns weren't designed to murder
I thought this was the only reason why they were invented in first place, to commit murder from long distances
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Would you fuck with me if I had an M16A1 slung over my shoulder? I mean, you don't threaten a police officer with a rock, do you?
Good point. I guess I'll go home and get an even bigger gun to return the advantage to me!
guns weren't designed to murder.
You are absolutely correct. The fact they're the most effective murder mechanisms in the world is simply a byproduct of their original intentions, which were nothing but good. The very reason why you want to have guns (hunting, and stuff like that; definitely not killing) proves that fact.
Voting for Ron Appall is a vote for freedom!
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Damn, Marcus. I thought you were just joking at the beginning :( You've turned into a Paulestinian :sad:
edit: man, you're in the fucking US Navy telling us stories of killing terrorists with bazookas on boats in the Persian Gulf, you've probably visited more Eastern/non-Western countries than anyone on GW, you know the way shit works in the world, you've told us in the past how much you support your own institution, yet you're telling us to vote for the man who wants to remove you immediately from Iraq, f*ck everyone else, and give gun's gun's gun's to all the amazing peoples of the world
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wait marcus really supports ron paul?
i thought that was a joke :(
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I brought up the whole Ron Paul thing to see what kind of responses I'd get. For anyone who's curious, I'm a minarchist. But my political views aren't important...
Because I know all of you will be voting for the correct candidate.
Mike Gravel
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Would you fuck with me if I had an M16A1 slung over my shoulder?
No I'd probably think you're a scared little child in a man's body, unable to have any kind of impact on other people without the immediate threat of violence.
"Do what I want and think what I think or I'll hurt you." You're as bad as every mugger and armed robber there's ever been you piece of shit.
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WOW security guards at a fucking church, that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
if there werent any guards in the fucking church, more people would have died.
thank god the guy was stopped before more people got shot.
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Yeah I think that we have already established that the idea of a security guard is not necessarily as foreign or as absurd as ihatemalus seems to think it is.
One of my teachers mentioned about this yesterday in class, and what he had heard was, since the church has previoulsy been recieving threats of violent nature, the hired the ushers to pack heat. (Also, this was an usher not a "security guard.")
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No I'd probably think you're a scared little child in a man's body, unable to have any kind of impact on other people without the immediate threat of violence.
"Do what I want and think what I think or I'll hurt you." You're as bad as every mugger and armed robber there's ever been you piece of shit.
Ah, this is the kind of response I was looking for!
You miss my point, good sir. I'm looking to protect the people, not bend them to my will. By giving every man* a gun, you eliminate the need to do things on impulse. If I wanted to mug you, my first thought would be "What if he's a better draw? Or a better shot?" The slightest bit of hesitation is enough to get even the strongest willed men to back down.
Hence why gun control is stupid. RON PAUL.
*When I say every man, I mean every man. Women are not genetically fit to carry firearms.
raun pol
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heh don't worry I actually saw this post
I brought up the whole Ron Paul thing to see what kind of responses I'd get. For anyone who's curious, I'm a minarchist. But my political views aren't important...
Because I know all of you will be voting for the correct candidate.
Mike Gravel
you made that doesn't show up because of our great forums. I decided not to edit.
Making stupid posts to force outraged replies, gg to you my friend.
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Is this that trolling for "lulz" I've heard so much about?
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No I'd probably think you're a scared little child in a man's body, unable to have any kind of impact on other people without the immediate threat of violence.
"Do what I want and think what I think or I'll hurt you." You're as bad as every mugger and armed robber there's ever been you piece of shit.
I don't know what your smoking, but if I saw a black dude with an m16 slung over his shoulder, I'm thinking "fuck that shit" and cross the street to get where I need to go. Not doing a physiological anaylisis as to why he is insecure and carrying a gun.
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I thought it was pretty obvious in the first place that marcus was joking.
Jesus.
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Yeah I think that we have already established that the idea of a security guard is not necessarily as foreign or as absurd as ihatemalus seems to think it is.
Well it isn't the security that seems so absurd to me, its the idea of that person being armed with a lethal weapon that is so goddamn retarded.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I think its ridiculous that this woman was allowed to carry a loaded weapon around IN A CHURCH no less, despite whether or not it saved a few people from ONE nutball with a gun I still think its stupid AND dangerous.
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What is so special about a church that you find it so odd that the secruity carries guns? The church HARDLY has a peacefull reputation.
This is like asking why the secret service carries guns in the white house...yes, the church is a popular thing in America, probably more popular than politics.
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I thought it was pretty obvious in the first place that marcus was joking.
Jesus.
American and in a military force. If anyone's going to surprise me by having what seems to be a fucking unreasonable viewpoint he's a likely candidate. jokes are funny, written sarcasm doesn't work even with giant text, I've been up all night
Also I just found out what Ron Paul is. It's not a nice thing.
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Well it isn't the security that seems so absurd to me, its the idea of that person being armed with a lethal weapon that is so goddamn retarded.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I think its ridiculous that this woman was allowed to carry a loaded weapon around IN A CHURCH no less, despite whether or not it saved a few people from ONE nutball with a gun I still think its stupid AND dangerous.
Yeah I kind get where youre coming from...Realistically most people dont imagine church members with loaded weapons at their disposal at their church...Unless its like a Klan church or something
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dammit Marcus don't scare me like that again. not to mention INVISIBLE POSTS
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Well it isn't the security that seems so absurd to me, its the idea of that person being armed with a lethal weapon that is so goddamn retarded.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I think its ridiculous that this woman was allowed to carry a loaded weapon around IN A CHURCH no less, despite whether or not it saved a few people from ONE nutball with a gun I still think its stupid AND dangerous.
Okay, sure it's weird that some woman had a loaded gun in the church, and I'm pretty sure that not all of the ushers have loaded guns, but it's not that fucking insane.
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American and in a military force. If anyone's going to surprise me by having what seems to be a fucking unreasonable viewpoint he's a likely candidate.
If there's anyone more self aware of the stupidity in a country's government, it's the standing military. Once you sign, there's no going back, but you witness the truth firsthand so it's a win-lose situation.
Making stupid posts to force outraged replies, gg to you my friend.
i get my kicks on the internet. its serious business.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I don't know where you live (I'm going to assume not America) because most people are allowed to carry any concealable, non pistol weapon as a means of self defense. I've seen mace bottles that look double as lipstick; one side gives you a nice ruby red gloss, the other contains a powerful spray of the blinding stuff. If you have a permit, you can carry a small arm that's limited to a certain caliber (like... derringer small) and in most southern states you can carry a visible small arm as long as it's in a secured holster that's visibly fastened around your waist or shoulders.
I've walked through wal-marts where people are armed. You don't really think twice about it because after a while you get used to it, but my county has the lowest gun related crimes in the entire state.
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Well it isn't the security that seems so absurd to me, its the idea of that person being armed with a lethal weapon that is so goddamn retarded.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I think its ridiculous that this woman was allowed to carry a loaded weapon around IN A CHURCH no less, despite whether or not it saved a few people from ONE nutball with a gun I still think its stupid AND dangerous.
I think you're being a little naive.
Obviously there are two types of security: armed and unarmed.
Unarmed guards are mostly hired when there is no real expectation of anything happening, but you want to reduce the possibility (as in no one was probably going to do anything anyways, but they definitely won't when there's a person there), as well as making the people around feel secure and know the property (in this case a church) and so on.
Armed guards exist because, well, shit happens. If you're carrying or watching money or anything of great value, or if there is a large event where there is a percieved chance of some nutbag coming out and being violent, it makes all the sense in the world for there to be an armed guard. In this case there had been a shooting at a nearby mission area, and they decided the chances of them being a target was likely enough that they wanted one or a few guns on the property.
Besides, given her background in law enforcement, I doubt that she wasn't both licensed and experienced in the use of handguns.
But yeah, saving lives is stupid and dangerous.
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Well it isn't the security that seems so absurd to me, its the idea of that person being armed with a lethal weapon that is so goddamn retarded.
I mean they don't let ME carry mace or anything, let alone a damn GUN.
I think its ridiculous that this woman was allowed to carry a loaded weapon around IN A CHURCH no less, despite whether or not it saved a few people from ONE nutball with a gun I still think its stupid AND dangerous.
I agree with this. I've worked security in places that are much more likely to have violent outbreaks or random psychos with weapons than a fucking church, and I still didn't carry a loaded lethal weapon on me.
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I agree with this. I've worked security in places that are much more likely to have violent outbreaks or random psychos with weapons than a fucking church, and I still didn't carry a loaded lethal weapon on me.
This is very simply because armed guards are more expensive than unarmed guards and whatever locations you worked had management who did not percieve a large enough threat to justify the extra expense.
I don't think the church acted too crazily in this regard. Really, what it boils down to is that it's their church and they get to decide what kind of security they have around. Given that their fears ended up being justified I don't really see the argument for demonizing the leaders or whoever for putting armed guards inside. There were shootings in the area, they believed they might be targeted next, they took measures to minimize the danger, the situation occured, and the perpetrator was dealt with. I simply have trouble seeing why it's irrational for a church which is willing to pay for armed guards to have them.
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This is very simply because armed guards are more expensive than unarmed guards and whatever locations you worked had management who did not percieve a large enough threat to justify the extra expense.
I don't think the church acted too crazily in this regard. Really, what it boils down to is that it's their church and they get to decide what kind of security they have around. Given that their fears ended up being justified I don't really see the argument for demonizing the leaders or whoever for putting armed guards inside. There were shootings in the area, they believed they might be targeted next, they took measures to minimize the danger, the situation occured, and the perpetrator was dealt with. I simply have trouble seeing why it's irrational for a church which is willing to pay for armed guards to have them.
This. Especially when I pointed out that earlier the church had recieved threats to it's congregation. (Which is also very large, which would also be a valid reason for armed guards. )
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(Which is also very large, which would also be a valid reason for armed guards. )
Yeah, it's not a small church at all. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the same church Ted Haggard pastored at. The main sanctuary seats 7,500.
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I thought it was pretty obvious in the first place that marcus was joking.
Jesus.
Wait wait wait. Since when are you back?
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I think what we're really trying to say here is, people in churches aren't worth saving.
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I don't know where you live (I'm going to assume not America) because most people are allowed to carry any concealable, non pistol weapon as a means of self defense.
Nope. I'm talking about when I'm standing watch in port.
I don't get ANYTHING, and most merchant seamen DONT GET ANYTHING. The ones that do are on military contracted ships that say if you HAVE to use a weapon you can't fire on foreign soil and when the situation actually meets all of the requirements to use the weapon you're legally on your own afterwards.
Its kind of bullshit that in the states you can carry around a fucking armada of concealed weaponry but when you're standing on a tanker filled with liquid natural gas and you're supposed to be guarding it from anyone dangerous all you've got is a radio...
I get where you guys are coming from, but A CHURCH is not a place that really needs that sort of security.
Yeah some lunatic armed himself and went to town on two of them, but when something like that happens you CALL THE FUCKING COPS and have them guard the building. Not some Ex-cop zealot that swore jesus spoke to her the morning that she pumped lead into some crazy man with a gun.
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I get where you guys are coming from, but A CHURCH is not a place that really needs that sort of security.
Yeah some lunatic armed himself and went to town on two of them, but when something like that happens you CALL THE FUCKING COPS and have them guard the building. Not some Ex-cop zealot that swore jesus spoke to her the morning that she pumped lead into some crazy man with a gun.
Um, no.
1) They received a specific threat.
2) They got armed guards on their property to deal with the specific threat.
3) The threat was realized.
4) The situation was mitigated by the security they hired to deal with the threat.
You're just being stupid at this point. I think it was explained well enough that anyone who doesn't get why this particular church needed security is just plain retarded.
Not to mention most churches enjoy tax exempt status so if they're willing to hire armed guards rather than mooch off the policemen that taxpayers pay for there really shouldn't be a problem with that!