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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: goldenratio on December 14, 2007, 05:57:40 am

Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: goldenratio on December 14, 2007, 05:57:40 am
Recent breakthroughs in scramjet engines could mean two-hour flights from New York to Tokyo. They could also mean missiles capable of striking any continent in a moment's notice. No wonder the race to develop them is as fierce as ever.

Wow, so I've been engrossed in this article: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/a3bfe2e6fb5c6110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html for the past hour or so.

First of all, I had no idea these scramjet engines even existed! This is so cool, they've gotten one up to mach 9.6 with only 10 seconds of scramjet power. That is fucking INSANE. This isn't even a theory, they are testing these right now. It is some amazing stuff, imo. I just found the article really fascinating.

Also, what do you guys think of this as far as weapons go? With this technology, it's possible to demolish a country before they even have a chance to fire anything back, meaning the whole "you shoot we all die" thing kinda won't work anymore? I dunno with great power comes great responsibility and this seems like a great fucking power imo. you go science!

(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/24779/scramjet_artb.jpg)


picture gallery: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/9f42e2e6fb5c6110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/24779/scramjet_embed1.jpg)
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Cardinal Ximenez on December 14, 2007, 06:05:12 am
They have been hyping this for perhaps decades now. Wake me when the president has one.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: the_hoodie on December 14, 2007, 06:07:19 am
This is actually really scary.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Paragon on December 14, 2007, 06:54:23 am
We will all be dead by the time they're able to launch one of those. The march of the penguins has already begun, and with Freeman leading them... well, never has there been a more soothing knell.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: HL on December 14, 2007, 07:12:23 am
This is actually really scary.

Pretty much this.

Just going to take one asshole who doesn't care if him or his people go with us to get ahold of this and GG.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Drule on December 14, 2007, 07:25:22 am
we gotta stop them
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Carrion Crow on December 14, 2007, 07:30:07 pm
It would be interesting to know how they develop electronic navigation components for the outside of the craft considering the high temperatures.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Erevain on December 14, 2007, 11:17:28 pm
They won't be able to use these for commercial flights at all for at least a decade or two, because a large object travelling that much faster than the speed of sound is dangerous. 
You've heard what it sounds like for a jet to fly overhead?  Three times that volume flying over the countryside would destroy eardrums in like a 40-mile radius.  They are trying to develop aircrafts that are so aerodynamic that they don't produce sound in flight, but that's going to be hard to do.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: jman00 on December 14, 2007, 11:36:09 pm
I'm writing my will up... I think I'll pass my PS2 and my rarities to...

But in all seriousness, it sounds cool and bad at the same time, I don't know how to put it in actually, flyin' at Mach Speed... cool... we're doomed.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Carrion Crow on December 15, 2007, 01:12:15 am
There's something very Orwellian about the whole living in fear of "the bomb" thing. Consider WW2, the number of advances in aviation, computing and medicine for a cause such as warfare. Consider the "terrorist threat" - these are all things that are very real but in a way it allows society to funtion and move towards something under it's shadow. We'll believe what the news tells us and be afraid. Some of us wake up in the night because our dreams are scattered by the seeds planted.

I can feel the plot for a science fiction RPG coming on. AGAIN.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Kaempfer on December 15, 2007, 04:33:31 am
The article was too long for my hurting brain to read, but it seems from the comments that there is a fear that these things will bring a new era of warfare. There already exist enough conventional explosives to destroy the entire world, never mind atomic weapons. There is no such thing as a "first and final" strike weapon, because unless you launch one of these things at every enemy nuclear silo (probably somewhere in the low hundreds) in the world at once they will be able to counter with regular warheads and end your shit.

This just brings mutually assured destruction into another level. ICBMs are slow enough that the firer can change his or her mind for several minutes after they are launched, and there exist several means of intercepting them. However, an intercontinental missile using a scramjet would cause immediate retribution, even before the damn things had hit the ground.

The biggest threat of these bad boys is that someone with an itchy trigger finger will launch what they view as a "preemptive" strike against an opponent with hypersonic weapons.

Also I saw Darpa in there so I can only assume we are safe so long as Solid Snake is around!

edit: Oh yeah I guess there is some practical commercial international usage for them, too, but let's not forget the commercial failure that was the Concorde jet, despite being much faster than regular aeroplanes!
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 15, 2007, 03:43:57 pm
Why do they always think of some destructive use of anything some other people invents or discovers?

"NEWS: Science confirms that there's life in Mars. It could means interplanetary cultural exchanges or an army of martian zombies that could kill more people than normal soldiers"

"NEWS: Science invents nano-robots. They can be used to cure cancer but the Army is thinking of inserting them into missles to destroy terrorist bunkers and then kill a lot of people"
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mr.Nemo on December 15, 2007, 04:19:27 pm
Why do they always think of some destructive use of anything some other people invents or discovers?

"NEWS: Science confirms that there's life in Mars. It could means interplanetary cultural exchanges or an army of martian zombies that could kill more people than normal soldiers"

"NEWS: Science invents nano-robots. They can be used to cure cancer but the Army is thinking of inserting them into missles to destroy terrorist bunkers and then kill a lot of people"


Prehistoric man: Hey man, what do you think would happen if I took this stick, which I use to hunt with, and bashed your brains out with it?

Stone age man: I'll trade this pelt for your 3 daughters.

Jewish man: Hey, I think we should totally write down our peoples history, now that we are locked up in babylon. And while we are at it,  let's put in a couple of Babylonian tales, and make it a complete lie, enslaving larger parts of the western world for millenniums to come.

Medieval man: We got weapons, so we'll defend you in return for food and gold; and then leave you to famine/plague/whatever. If not we'll try some new instruments of torture on you.

Frenchie: Look at this guillotine! Now we can decapitate thousands of people in an instant!

German guy: I made a cheap way to bleach clothes efficiently! And killing jews, yeah, that works too.

German guy #2: Building rockets to get to places faster you say? No, lets shoot them at the allies.

Ford: This thing releases fumes that smells bad, make my head hurts and looks kinda creepy, but it sure runs fast!

American guy: look mr president, this atom thing could blow two whole metropolises and it's inhabitants up, and then completely desolate the area for decades to come.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Wash Cycle on December 15, 2007, 04:26:04 pm
:words:
you have a middle schooler's understanding of history and technology (and you're kind of racist too)

but yeah anyway wouldn't this kind of technology be the next step to like.. deep space exploration or has that already been discussed?
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 15, 2007, 04:36:58 pm
I'm pretty sure scramjet engines don't work in the vacuum of space wash cycle
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Wash Cycle on December 15, 2007, 04:43:51 pm
I'm pretty sure scramjet engines don't work in the vacuum of space wash cycle
do you fucking read for context or do you just read string phrases

NEXT STEP ffs not THE THING
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mr.Nemo on December 15, 2007, 06:18:49 pm
you have a middle schooler's understanding of history and technology (and you're kind of racist too)



awesome

but i didnt like middle school.

EDIT: also, how am I a racist?
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Wash Cycle on December 15, 2007, 06:45:50 pm
Jewish man: Hey, I think we should totally write down our peoples history, now that we are locked up in babylon. And while we are at it,  let's put in a couple of Babylonian tales, and make it a complete lie, enslaving larger parts of the western world for millenniums to come.
not only do you have a poor understanding of the circumstances surrounding the codification of the hebrew scriptures but you've drawn some really stupid conclusions about it as well and tied in some global jewish conspiracy bullshit that would make David Irving cum in his panties

also what I was saying with the middle schooler comment has nothing to do with middle school (hint: it was me telling you you think like a 12 year old)
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: dom on December 15, 2007, 11:59:55 pm

awesome

but i didnt like middle school.
that explains why you didn't learn anything then
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: IceManual5580 on December 16, 2007, 12:23:15 am
It'd be an odd-age to see these things everyday outside, advancement in technology is getting really impressive yet scary to where the point it'll kill us all.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 16, 2007, 12:55:56 am
Technology won't kill us all, in the future we will be wise enough to not use them for evil purposes
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: IceManual5580 on December 16, 2007, 02:37:19 am
Technology won't kill us all, in the future we will be wise enough to not use them for evil purposes
Then again, we can't predict something such as another evil dictator in the future, by the time of this technological weaponry will be far advanced and life will end. Ofcourse that's just my opinion, also the lack of resources in the future.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Eltee on December 16, 2007, 02:56:37 am
Technology won't kill us all, in the future we will be wise enough to not use them for evil purposes

I don't think you understand human nature...
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: DeltaHybrid on December 16, 2007, 06:08:16 am
Technology won't kill us all, in the future we will be wise enough to not use them for evil purposes

You are kidding, right? Technology is propelled by the need to kill others. Do you think when the catapult was first conceived, people thought "In the future, they will be wise enough not to use it for evil purposes!".
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Sarhan on December 16, 2007, 06:43:01 am
Why do they always think of some destructive use of anything some other people invents or discovers?

A lot of things are actually discovered for military purposes and then converted for use in the home.

I'd love to see technology similar to this used for space exploration purposes, but then again, I'm very excited by the idea of space exploration, so my opinion is somewhat biased. Then again, they've already achieved speeds higher than these rockets could attain. Still though, less money into weaponry development and more into NASA's R&D program (of course I joke, but space is just begging to be explored).

I have a feeling the end of our world will be very sudden with some ass fucking everyone over just because he's insane and doesn't give a shit about the world.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 16, 2007, 05:38:46 pm
You are kidding, right? Technology is propelled by the need to kill others. Do you think when the catapult was first conceived, people thought "In the future, they will be wise enough not to use it for evil purposes!".



Yes but that was in the past, they used to throw people using catapults and burn witches, but do you know why people don't do this anymore? Because Humanity evolved and realized it was stupid, and I just believe Humanity will continue evolving and realize that all this "WOW we'll make a missle that will be able to destroy ANYONE without them noticing!!" is as stupid as burning witches
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: HL on December 16, 2007, 05:42:27 pm

Yes but that was in the past, they used to throw people using catapults and burn witches, but do you know why people don't do this anymore?

...because we got guns and rockets?
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Vesper on December 16, 2007, 05:55:25 pm
...because we got guns and rockets?

so instead of burning witches we'll be able to shoot them with beyond the speed of sound at them? Freakin' awesome! Time to blow up some devil worshippers
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: DeltaHybrid on December 16, 2007, 06:13:09 pm

Yes but that was in the past, they used to throw people using catapults and burn witches, but do you know why people don't do this anymore? Because Humanity evolved and realized it was stupid, and I just believe Humanity will continue evolving and realize that all this "WOW we'll make a missle that will be able to destroy ANYONE without them noticing!!" is as stupid as burning witches

You do realize that nowadays we have people who strap explosives to themselves and blow other people up, right?
Humans are no more evolved then we were a thousand years ago. Some ideas and customs have evolved/changed, but people at their core have not. We are a brutal species, and there will always be violence. The only way to really eliminate that is to eliminate independent thought, and if that happened how could we even be considered human anymore?
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: HL on December 16, 2007, 06:23:32 pm
Unfortunately, it is human nature.

We like to make ourselves out to be a civilized society, but when it comes down to it, we're not really much of one at all. Sure, on the outside we do fine and dandy, but to quote The Mist: "Sure, as long as the machines are working and you can dial 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, you scare the shit out of them - no more rules.".

You get two people who disagree with each other, and if its the right 2 people, its enough to destroy us all. We take measures in preventing that thankfully, but thats never going to change. We're the only thing on this planet that mass murders itself, how awesome is that?
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Ihateyou on December 16, 2007, 06:47:14 pm
Quote
but yeah anyway wouldn't this kind of technology be the next step to like.. deep space exploration or has that already been discussed?
There is no way that scramjet technology can work properly outside of an Earth like atmosphere.
A shuttle rocket works because it carries large quantities of the one thing fire needs to exist... Oxygen.
A shuttle uses oxygen as a fuel source along with hydrogen, meaning that if you wanted to adapt the scramjet, you'd have to pump large quantities of oxygen into it mechanically, rather than just scooping it into the engines because you're going at stupidly high speeds.
Scramjet technology may be usable for getting off the ground, but there's much more viable technologies for providing thrust once you're in space.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: WarV on December 16, 2007, 06:49:13 pm
Well with the rate of how laser technology is going, it will not matter how fast a missile is at some point. If they can't beat the speed of light, they are going to get blow up in mid -flight. Now you just have to hope powerful anti-missile laser become operational before the first Hypersonic missile war.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: kentona on December 17, 2007, 07:56:34 pm
Well with the rate of how laser technology is going, it will not matter how fast a missile is at some point. If they can't beat the speed of light, they are going to get blow up in mid -flight. Now you just have to hope powerful anti-missile laser become operational before the first Hypersonic missile war.
Hello Star Wars... :shady:

And besides, by then we'll have Ion Cannons.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: goat on December 28, 2007, 04:57:07 am
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.g2mil.com/scramjet.jpeg)

Wow, a scramjet inspired bullet.
Already able to be used in existing rifles, it travels at mach 7 and could travel hundreds of miles, not to mention whatever fuel it has on impact will detonate.
I didn't think I'd ever call a bullet sexy...
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 28, 2007, 06:29:10 pm
That's nice goat now we can  kill other people a lot better than before this was invented!
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Grin Tree on December 29, 2007, 01:14:28 am
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.g2mil.com/scramjet.jpeg)

Wow, a scramjet inspired bullet.
Already able to be used in existing rifles, it travels at mach 7 and could travel hundreds of miles, not to mention whatever fuel it has on impact will detonate.
I didn't think I'd ever call a bullet sexy...

Gah, that's nuts.  But it would cost a lot of money to manufacture in massive quantities, since the alloy has to be durable enough to travel at Mach 7 without disintegrating/melting.  Unless it's capable of doing that already, since bullets don't travel for very long before hitting something.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Orange00 on December 29, 2007, 03:13:31 pm
Of course this doesn't mean immediate apocalypse, but all it takes is a wrong person in a wrong place in a wrong time. Though that's the case at the very moment too so doesn't change anything really (Speaking of the extinction of mankind)

Just a matter of time?


That bullet is pretty ridiculous btw, what the use? It's not like people are dodging the current ones..
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 29, 2007, 03:59:29 pm
Orange they want to make bullets so fast so that the shooter does not have to lead the target or compensate for bullet drop at high distances
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Hempknight on December 29, 2007, 05:09:07 pm
Orange they want to make bullets so fast so that the shooter does not have to lead the target or compensate for bullet drop at high distances

I want a bullet so fast that it kills the person before I pull the trigger.

Scramjet engines will have the same problems that the afterburning turbofans used on The Concorde had - They're leaky, noisy, and weigh a ton due to having to be able to withstand the speed and heat for which they generate. Airports cannot be adapted to service these aircraft in a cost effective way, which means limited service, and anti airport noise laws which have been around since the jet airliner was mainstreamed will kill use in the United States... just like with the Concorde.

I think I'll kick back on the new Airbus 380 for my long ass flights instead of riding on a tiny flying knife.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Awakening on December 30, 2007, 12:30:04 pm
Captain Obvious is here to tell you:
In relation to nuclear warfare, something like this would kill mutual deterrence theory.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Dale Gobbler on December 30, 2007, 03:01:10 pm
Those bullets sure would be nice for... Duck Huntin'.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Hempknight on December 30, 2007, 03:08:15 pm
Those bullets sure would be nice for... Duck Huntin'.

where do you find these supersonic ducks...?  :hmm:
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Orange00 on December 30, 2007, 05:55:28 pm
Orange they want to make bullets so fast so that the shooter does not have to lead the target or compensate for bullet drop at high distances
Well they still do have to "lead" the target in a way, it's not like the second you raise your aim you got the target pin-pointed. This just takes some prediction off. Also I don't think bullet drop is really that big of an issue.. at least with the right equipment.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Brown on December 30, 2007, 07:34:18 pm
yeah i agree bullet drop shouldnt be too big of a problem right now. but im still amazed by the pic of the bullet. that thing looks scary because i KNOW that if i got hit by one of those bullets (no matter what distance) it would be utterly painful.
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Mince Wobley on December 30, 2007, 07:37:17 pm
Yes maybe bullet drop isn't a problem at point blank range but it sure is at distances like 800 meters
Title: The Hypersonic Age is Near
Post by: Kaempfer on January 05, 2008, 02:47:25 am
How could a scramjet bullet fire 7 kilometers? Wouldn't the Coriolis effect and wind still be major factors? They would have to have a tiny computer chip inside each one. :0

Also, it's pretty obviously that no one but Inri (ugh I hate agreeing with Inri) knows anything about how bullets work at long distances. Bullets go nowhere you expect them to at even ranges of 500 meters+ unless you are a trained sniper. Like, some people think hitting a target is as easy as picking up a gun and aiming the scope's crosshairs at it, but it's really, really not.

Anyways, they already have something similar in regular operational use. The KEM (Kinetic Energy Missile) is a computer guided missile with no warhead that is not very large. About three times the length of a 12.7mm anti-material slug. When a KEM hits something, it hits it with significant enough force (and mass, because it is so much larger than a 12.7 (.50 cal) round) that it can literally destroy a jeep upon impact. Like, not just bang it up or damage it, but sever it in half and throw both those halves a couple meters.