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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Fatboys #4 on December 15, 2007, 05:26:16 am

Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Fatboys #4 on December 15, 2007, 05:26:16 am
(Disclaimer - although my religion is involved you can still get results without it. Just please read it all)
Okay, so recently I had one of those experiences that changed my life and I'm sharing it with you guys because if it helped me so much that it may in fact help somebody else. Whether this is the right place or not isn't really the issue, imo, just as long as you are able to access it. So if you want to move it, feel free, all I want is to get it out there. With that said, here's my story:

Not too long ago I was doing drugs everyday, which may not be a bad thing to some people, but it really was affecting my life. I was waking up in the morning and as stereotypical as it sounds, I felt a void inside of me. I just felt empty and the only way I could feel alive (or the easiest way) was just to smoke pot. It got to the point to where it really was affecting my lifestyle. I was spending money on drugs, which is an expensive habit when you're broke and in college, and I wasn't studying as much, basically I was just unmotivated to do anything. Partly because of drugs, partly because of depression. Now I hate to bring religion to this, but it's kind of a factor. I believed in God and everything, but I hadn't been praying at all. I'd been trying to solve all my problems and because nobody is perfect, I kept fucking up and fucking up and fucking up. So one night I'm feeling like shit and I'm talking to one of my friends who tells me I need God back in my life and I should pray for something simple like to experience Him or to just find the truth. So I did that a couple times, didn't really pay too much attention to it and was still smoking everyday and feeling like shit. One Sunday morning I called my grandma because talking to my family helps me out when I'm feeling down and my aunt had picked up the phone. I hadn't talked to her in like months. And I tell her how I feel like I'm just floating along in life and I'm really unsure about the future and stuff and she tells me about these anti-depressants she's taking. I say, sure I'll give it a shot, everything I had been trying wasn't working. I get them and I start taking them. On the first day, I just had so much clarity I was able to figure out why I was depressed. I was in a delusion that I couldn't be happy without a person in my life for the most part and it was bothering the hell out of me, if not consciously at a subconscious level. I figured out that I could live without them and that I could be at peace. And although it may be common sense to some people, I just want to point out that when you're stuck in a mindset it's pretty much impossible to see outside of that. Now I only took the antidepressants for 5 days because I saw I didn't need them. I got out of them what I needed and I didn't want to deal with withdrawal symptoms and I sure as hell didn't like the way it affected my appetite. I smoke cigarettes (Going to quit soon, as soon as I have enough money for the patch) and they affect my appetite as it is.

Now the main thing I want to mention is this movie I saw. Yes, I was able to get out of my depression, but watching this movie helps me stay out of it. Using what I learned from it, I feel more in control and happy with my life. The movie I'm talking about is The Secret. http://www.thesecret.tv. Now when I was first watching it, I was a bit skeptical and thought it was a corny joke. But the more I watched I just saw how it all works. It's basically a movie on positive thinking and how your mind is more powerful than you give credit to it. People who take hallucinagens will know what I'm talking about. But anyway, what I'm trying to share with you is not a joke. It sounds corny and unrealistic, but honestly that's only because of your mind. If you think something is bogus or bullshit, then in your mind, it is. If you start believing in something, you would be surprised at what you can actually accomplish. And that's what that movie is about. Honestly, after watching that I've noticed a few things. The first is I'm actually enjoying life. I'm not getting caught up in things that are bothering me, I'm enjoying the things that aren't bothering me. And I'll share with you another simple little experience. One day I checked my bank account and I had 78 cents in it. I kept thinking that I'm gonna have money in my bank account, I know it. It didn't come immediately, I had actually checked it for a little while everyday to hear the same recording telling me I was broke. One day I checked it I had  40 bucks in it! I know it sounds like some stereotypical ad advertising bullshit results, but I'm telling you it's not. I'm not gaining anything out of this. If you don't want to watch the movie, look up the law of attraction - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction and it pretty much says what it is. I just want to give you guys some information that will actually help you in your life, help you in a lot of ways. I feel that this is far more important than any ridiculous news story because this affects your actual life. I just want to let you know again that I honestly just want to share this with you because it actually works. It's not bullshit. And that I'm sharing it with you because I didn't want to keep that for myself. If it has the potential to better the lives of people, why not start with sharing it with a community, our community. I know that everyone is different and what works for some may not work for others, but I just encourage you to try this out and share any experiences you have when you do. Thanks and I hope you enjoyed the read.
-tekk
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Standard Toaster on December 15, 2007, 05:39:32 am
Although I believe in the existence of a higher being I have to doubt that it exercises control over the world via the Law of Attraction. Inf fact I really severely doubt the physical manifestations that result as a "miracle" stemming from the law, but I feel that if one is more confident in something it is more likely to become reality. not to the point of manifestation that you describe, but rather that if you strive for something enough it will become significantly easier than if you hadn't.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Neophyte on December 15, 2007, 06:00:00 am
Ohh, I saw that movie last year.
It was....a great experience. It really sounds like bullshit if you just read it, you have to actually watch it. The Law of Attraction is a very nice concept, and I guess it does work.
Usually it's not "If I think this A LOT, it will happen!", but you think about it so much, that you actually ACT to get it. It takes awhile to grasp, too.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Frisky SKeleton on December 15, 2007, 06:17:15 am
Quote
I get them and I start taking them. On the first day, I just had so much clarity I was able to figure out why I was depressed

you know... they take up to several weeks to start working

anyway i started reading the secret because my dad got it, then i stopped because it's pretty goofy.
if you set your mind to something you're not making it happen any more than when you aim at a target you make the arrow hit it
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Hundley on December 15, 2007, 06:21:00 am
overwhelmingly positive thinkers are idiotic and tragically ill-equipped for the harsh realities of the world. particularly positive thinkers that honestly believe that they somehow possess the ability to bend time-space with their positive thinking. really, it's one thing looking on the bright side of life, but another thing entirely honestly believing that their utterly insignificant monkey-will has any legitimate influence on the world around them, beyond how utterly bonkers they appear to the more sensible people in their immediate surroundings.

keep your fucking forty dollars you scumbag. i don't need to pretend to make myself feel better and overcome difficult obstacles in my life.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Lars on December 15, 2007, 06:21:35 am
you know... they take up to several weeks to start working
Not if it's... ecstasy.

It really depends on the pill, and if it works by releasing serotonin it should take just a few hours for it to kick in, and you'll start realising stuff about your own mental condition.

If the pills work by increasing serotonin production or something like that, yeah it takes time. But they work in different ways yo.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on December 15, 2007, 06:35:35 am
The Secret sounded like total New Age bs to me. Now, The Fountain on the other hand, that's a good movie.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Doppleganger on December 15, 2007, 06:47:40 am
Much like karma- this "law" of attraction is utter rubbish.

First and foremost, for something to be a law it needs to go through enough testing to be proven to be a factual circumstance in the universe. I can guarantee you that this isn't the case with the "law" of attraction.

Secondly, much like karma, the "law" of attraction, is governed by selective and confirmation biases. The way both ideas work is that you're more willing to recreate and pick out situations that confirm what you so firmly believe in. This, "law" of attaction-wise, basically means that you're forcing the "law" of attraction to prove true. If you think you're going to get yourself a girlfriend then you'll most likely try and get a girlfriend. You'll pick out any aspects of your life relating to the that subject and take special note of them. By doing so you'll eventually succeed in your goal because you're actively seeking to succeed in that goal by setting your mind to it in the first place. It's not so much a mystery of science as it is the way of life. Try, try, try and you'll succeed. That's basically all the "law" of attraction sums up to.

Now karma is another subject that amounts to nothing but a simple proverb. Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. The whole premise of karma is the fact that what you do will come back to you in some way, shape, or form. There're varying degrees of return in each individual's belief but the basic idea remains the same throughout. This is a larger example of selective and confirmation biases and it in fact goes beyond that. The first thing to know about karma is that a believer is going to be looking for hints of it every chance they get. Drop a quarter and it rolls into the sewer- that's karma!
"I should've never took that extra penny from the penny tray at the gas station."

Get a christmas card with a check from a forgotten relative- that's karma!
"I'm glad I called my grandma six months ago."

If there's an opportunity to relate something to karma or any belief, that person will take that opportunity every time. It's one of the simplest ways to give meaning to life. And having a purpose/meaning is one of the most important things in order to sustain a healthy life. That's on a large-scale but, like I said, karma goes beyond that. On the subject of 'simpler' life-matters, karma allows somebody to feel good about themselves even if they do bad things. Here's a hypothetical.

Jimmy the gangsta is a firm believer in karma. When he's not killing children for their candy he's constantly assessing his life under the scrutiny of karma. Occassionally he will scrape his knee or lose a dead homie to the streets and naturally he'll feel bad because of it.

"Daayum dood, my bro straight got popped, G. Dat's karma on tha real. Shouldn'ta capped doze bitches on foth street. Karma's a bitch!"

As we can see, Jimmy just justified killing the "bitches on foth" with an event completely unrelated to it. That hardship is now temporarily erased from his mind now that he believes that it's been justified or forgiven by his own unfortunate event.

Anyways, neither karma nor the "law" of attraction are bad beliefs. It's just important to understand why they work the way they do. Anything that puts a person into a positive mindframe is a good thing in my book. Once you can understand how they work though, you can go beyond the bounds and limitations they set on your control of your life. These beliefs simply focus your attention on a small scale of how your mind works and will ultimately hinder your mental progress toward acceptance of yourself because they close your mind to so many other aspects of thinking.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Cardinal Ximenez on December 15, 2007, 07:36:42 am
I cannot believe I start debunking this elsewhere... AND IT FUCKING POPS UP HERE.

I will handle this tomorrow.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Parker on December 15, 2007, 08:47:26 am
My Mom actually bought me the book The Secret. It's an interesting read! Was not aware there was a movie. :\
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: ThugTears666 on December 15, 2007, 09:03:01 am
overwhelmingly positive thinkers are idiotic and tragically ill-equipped for the harsh realities of the world. particularly positive thinkers that honestly believe that they somehow possess the ability to bend time-space with their positive thinking. really, it's one thing looking on the bright side of life, but another thing entirely honestly believing that their utterly insignificant monkey-will has any legitimate influence on the world around them, beyond how utterly bonkers they appear to the more sensible people in their immediate surroundings.

keep your fucking forty dollars you scumbag. i don't need to pretend to make myself feel better and overcome difficult obstacles in my life.


Maybe think of it as the power of thinking positively instead of being so cynical...
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marcus on December 15, 2007, 09:17:38 am
What's going on here?  Someone turns their life around and they're getting flamed for trying a new method of thinking?
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Sarhan on December 15, 2007, 09:23:17 am

Maybe think of it as the power of thinking positively instead of being so cynical...

So I take it you didn't read his post?

He said thinking positively is nice and all, but when you start to believe your "positive thoughts" are affecting reality around you, then you've pretty much crossed over to the insane side. Things like this:

One day I checked my bank account and I had 78 cents in it. I kept thinking that I'm gonna have money in my bank account, I know it. It didn't come immediately, I had actually checked it for a little while everyday to hear the same recording telling me I was broke. One day I checked it I had 40 bucks in it!

are exactly what he's talking about. Come on now...there's no way in hell you can "make" money appear in your account without some sort of rational explanation. Otherwise we'd be seeing an assload of millionaires popping up all over the world with no explanation as to where the money came from. It's just like the whole psychic/fortune teller thing. If someone can predict the future, then why don't they use that power to make themselves wealthy by picking the winning lottery numbers, betting on the winning sports teams, and trading on the stock market? The exact same thing applies to this situation.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on December 15, 2007, 09:24:02 am
What's going on here?  Someone turns their life around and they're getting flamed for trying a new method of thinking?
No, their beliefs are being criticized, as all beliefs should be.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: helter skelter on December 15, 2007, 09:30:48 am
overwhelmingly positive thinkers are idiotic and tragically ill-equipped for the harsh realities of the world. particularly positive thinkers that honestly believe that they somehow possess the ability to bend time-space with their positive thinking. really, it's one thing looking on the bright side of life, but another thing entirely honestly believing that their utterly insignificant monkey-will has any legitimate influence on the world around them, beyond how utterly bonkers they appear to the more sensible people in their immediate surroundings.

keep your fucking forty dollars you scumbag. i don't need to pretend to make myself feel better and overcome difficult obstacles in my life.
*smokes cigarette*

*squints eyes*







Yeah basically the entire concept is farcical!
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: GZ on December 15, 2007, 09:40:13 am
there's a problem with the secret. that is, each of the "gurus" have a completely different interpretation of how it works. some of them believes you literally attract everything that happens to you. that is, your very existence is what you bring upon yourself including car accidents, getting sick, winning the lottery, and so on. one of them was even quoted on larry king as saying some 6 year old girl who was murdered brought it upon herself through negative thinking. on the other end is the belief in general positive thinking, so that you will see opportunities you may have otherwise missed and the positive thought and constant attention to your goals will consciously and unconsciously guide you there. either way i don't really understand how it's possible to magically become positive if your life experiences have led you to believe otherwise. you are mainly putting faith in an idea and if you believe it works then no one can tell you different.

going back to the original point, like many faith based or unproven beliefs those who believe in such an idea will have many different explainations of how it works since there's no science or real logic to it at the present time. the whole "you attract things" is completely bogus, because mostly everyone dreams or constantly wishes they were better than their current state and it doesn't work. they treat money for instance like some kind of magical concept when reality would tell you it's impossible for everyone to be rich. yet the secret would say you simply aren't thinking truely positively enough, so there's no way to disprove it for those who have benefitted from it. i will say that a reasonable level of positive thinking would undoubtedly help you though.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: dada on December 15, 2007, 10:32:47 am
overwhelmingly positive thinkers are idiotic and tragically ill-equipped for the harsh realities of the world.
This is true. It's actually ironic to see how optimists believe that if there weren't any pessimists, the world would be a lot better off. How wrong they are. Rather, it's the pessimist that's able to correctly prepare himself for any kind of obstacle that he might encounter, thus increasing his chances of success. They think carefully about the things that could go wrong, because they know that there's a realistic chance of them occurring, and as a result, become more able to overcome those things. Optimists refuse to do that, and when the inevitable happens, they won't know how to proceed.

It's also strange how people have this stereotype in their minds whenever they think of "a pessimist". They think that they're somehow incapable of being happy, and that they're bound for failure as a result of "giving up early" or "not trying hard enough because they believe they'll fail".

Of course, it's not all black and white, and being a positive person can have a very good influence on one's surroundings. But it's different when you're incapable of thinking past the obvious, like a lot of people seem to be.

EDIT: also, I'd like to stress here that success is the culmination of effort (and luck). It has nothing to do with whether you think you're going to be successful. It's only going to work if you actually roll up your sleeves and get to it. I wouldn't have a good job today if I didn't exert the effort to go out and find one two years ago. I also wouldn't have kept that job for very long if I hadn't immediately started brushing up my skills, because I was actually not very qualified for the job when I started it. (Though I'm still very lazy, by the way.)
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Hundley on December 15, 2007, 10:48:26 am
Maybe think of it as the power of thinking positively instead of being so cynical...
how about ABSOLUTELY NOT

being cynical is the best. i'm well prepared for when bad things happen(within reason), and it's a really nice surprise when good things happen.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: dada on December 15, 2007, 11:02:44 am
One day I checked my bank account and I had 78 cents in it. I kept thinking that I'm gonna have money in my bank account, I know it. It didn't come immediately, I had actually checked it for a little while everyday to hear the same recording telling me I was broke. One day I checked it I had  40 bucks in it!
And the camera turns back to Oprah. She turns to the audience, who immediately begin to cheer and applaud, solidifying the link between the story and their acclamation. "Can anyone who just listened to this story tell me there isn't a god?" she asks the crowd.


My point being: who do you think you're fooling with this ridiculous story?
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Fatboys #4 on December 15, 2007, 03:57:00 pm
Fuck. HAHA. I went on a end. Nah, like. About the whole money thing. No shit obviously someone put it there. I'm not saying it didn't come from no where. I think my grandma or someone put it in there. But It's really less about making things spawn out of nowhere and more about focusing on the good in your life. I'm not like a blind positive person, I've learned a lot through my experiences I just try to stay focused on my goals and not let petty shit get me down. It was just a big change going from depression to optimism and it's just made my life better. Obviously, not being depressed is a lot better than being depressed and I just feel so much better about life and letting go of the things I can't control and honestly the change between those two is so great that of course it's going to change my life. "Your mind can either be your crutch or your sword and shield." A lot of people just fall back on themselves and think woe is me, give me attention for the shitty situation I'm in and don't do anything to get out of it. But when you start realizing, hey, I can get out of it, it just becomes an experience. And I could sit here and tell you about my change in my outlook on life but everyone has their own outlook on life and I'm not here to change anyone's view, but if someone's going through some rough times I'd like to atleast influence them to be strong and that we're all pretty young on these forums, we've got a lot of years left. Hard times are going to come, again and again and it's all in how you deal with them that either make or break you and I just don't want anyone to go through hell if they don't have to.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: xanque on December 15, 2007, 04:21:43 pm
I watched The Secret a few weeks ago, and it didn't need to be 90 minutes long.  It could have been summarized in about seven minutes.

While I do believe positive thinking helps a person to an extent, simply thinking about things doesn't do shit.  All of the people in the movie who told their stories actively sought out what they wanted.  The guy who was paralyzed forced himself to be able to move again.  The guy who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul gave speeches before he was published. 
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Fatboys #4 on December 15, 2007, 04:24:29 pm
Well yeah, there's a plaque my aunt has in her room where she does her writing it says:
"Thought without action is merely a dream"

So, of course you have to put action to it. But atleast thinking in the right direction gets you moving in the right direction.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: xanque on December 15, 2007, 06:55:44 pm
Well yeah, there's a plaque my aunt has in her room where she does her writing it says:
"Thought without action is merely a dream"

So, of course you have to put action to it. But atleast thinking in the right direction gets you moving in the right direction.
Exactly, but the movie doesn't really put it that way. 
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Mama Luigi on December 15, 2007, 08:47:37 pm
"The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality."
--  George Bernard Shaw
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Ragnar on December 15, 2007, 09:16:38 pm
I'm surprised nobody has said LET'S POSITIVE THINKING yet

But yeah it depends on what this is about - I mean I've spent plenty of time on GW just for the sake of NOT DOING THING (much like I'm doing now), and I swear if I had used that time wisely I could've been a Norwegian pop star by now

Also I don't think there's any real point to being all like ARGH I'M IN A WAITING ROOM or ARGH I'M IN A SUPERMARKET. I dunno, it's not really that stressful of a thing, is it? Then again I'm one of those people who wastes money on food a lot, like I just get weird crap whenever I feel like it

But yeah if you're going to get HITBYTRUCK it's pretty much going to happen unless you could've avoided it by not being drunk or something but that's not karma that's not being drunk
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Shepperd on December 15, 2007, 11:03:04 pm
y'know, I'm an atheist, but everytime I eat a PEACH, it is one of those things that makes me believe there is a God
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marmot on December 15, 2007, 11:15:20 pm
pot is a much better drug than god
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Feldschlacht IV on December 15, 2007, 11:57:55 pm
It's funny how more than half of you completely missed the concept here. It's not magical thinking or some bullshit like that. I personally believe that it's all about the power of your mind and will; however "monkey-will" or whatever it is, your mind and ones perception of reality is more important to success or failure than anything else in the world to a single person.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on December 16, 2007, 12:00:23 am
It's funny how more than half of you completely missed the concept here. It's not magical thinking or some bullshit like that. I personally believe that it's all about the power of your mind and will; however "monkey-will" or whatever it is, your mind and ones perception of reality is more important to success or failure than anything else in the world to a single person.

It depends on if you mean the concept of positive thinking, or the concept of The Secret (which is magical bullshit).
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Frankie on December 16, 2007, 02:12:54 am
I dont know. The thought that positive thinking should make your life better seems like something really wrong to believe in. Its like it is saying, poor unsuccessful people are only this way because they dont TRY enough. Its ridiculous.

Karma and other things like that sort of do half the job of making you a better person. It means you got to do nice things, or bad things will happen to you. Its a way of saying, "do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you", but giving some sort of magical reason for it.
The actual reason you shouldnt "do to others what you would not want them do to you", is because of your conscience and sense of justice. They affect your self-image deeply. So much that even were you to find great success in life, a large amount of guilt would still drag you on the path to depression. To enjoy your fortunes, you must have a feeling that you deserve this fortune, that you are in accord with yourself, that you are close enough to your own ideals as a human being.

A lot of things like this are sort of told wrong when superstitions are thrown in with it.
Think of the Christian prayer before eating: even though the prayer largely says, you are thankful to god for providing you with food, the actual message is not, pray more and food will magically appear when you're hungry, because god likes you more and will change the threads of fate so you get more food.
The REAL message behind "thank you" prayers is that if you have food, its mostly due to chance (here, God and his "mysterious ways"): you could have been born in a third world country or in a very poor family. Bad shit could have happened to you. You don't have control on most aspects of what happens to you.
Its sort of a message that tells you, enjoy this moment for what you have, because many others do not have your luck. Its saying, respect people who don't have your social standing, because they often just didn't have the luck you had. You could be at their place right now. Lots of people who are in the streets got there because of events completely out of their control. Respect them, like you would probably want to be respected in their place.

Like I said, the problem with saying the message this way, is that it can lead to interpretations that are fucking wrong. Some people actually think that when someone is out on the streets, its because hes a criminal, or an otherwise despicable human being, and god (or karma or whatever) is punishing him. If hes in bad shape, if hes poor, he deserves it. Its pretty much PRECISELY the opposite of what the actual message is (well as far as Christian prayer goes... with karma, it actually means that. ooops.)
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marcus on December 16, 2007, 02:24:56 am
Quote
No, their beliefs are being criticized, as all beliefs should be.

I don't know if this statement is EXTREME IRONY or being BLATANTLY HYPOCRITICAL.  Please circle the correct bold response.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Avatar on December 16, 2007, 02:27:38 am
I don't know if this statement is EXTREME IRONY or being BLATANTLY HYPOCRITICAL.  Please circle the correct bold response.
C) Neither.  Beliefs should always be criticized.  I fail to see how either is the case; such a position is only rational.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: headphonics on December 16, 2007, 02:32:55 am
EDIT: also, I'd like to stress here that success is the culmination of effort (and luck). It has nothing to do with whether you think you're going to be successful. It's only going to work if you actually roll up your sleeves and get to it. I wouldn't have a good job today if I didn't exert the effort to go out and find one two years ago. I also wouldn't have kept that job for very long if I hadn't immediately started brushing up my skills, because I was actually not very qualified for the job when I started it. (Though I'm still very lazy, by the way.)
blah blah blah this whole thing, or at least this topic's (and movie's?) take on it, is dumb and totally unreasonable and really is not an especially applicable philosophy.  but uh, i'd very much disagree with you saying that, even though effort/luck are the major factors involved in deciding what does and does not happen in your life, what you think about what's going to happen doesn't affect anything.  your thoughts dictate your attitude, and very few people can honestly say that their attitude never influences their actions.  there's a big difference, i think, between looking at something positively and looking at the same thing negatively; the difference is how you perceive it, and a person's perception of a situation, or another person, or whatever, can have a fairly extraordinary effect.  most of this is bogus, and that goes without saying, but i think it should also go without saying that how someone looks at something, and whether they think of it in a positive or in a negative way, absolutely has some influence on events.  that's not to say that a positive perspective will necessarily lead to a more favorable chain of events or anything, but still, it's a definite possibility, and even a likelihood that it will lead to SOMETHING different, good or bad.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on December 16, 2007, 02:41:07 am
C) Neither.  Beliefs should always be criticized.  I fail to see how either is the case; such a position is only rational.
Thanks for saving me some typing (except this post?).
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marcus on December 16, 2007, 02:45:44 am
C) Neither.  Beliefs should always be criticized.  I fail to see how either is the case; such a position is only rational.

Belief and faith go hand in hand but they aren't exclusively religious.  I have faith that I will die only of natural causes; I'm not 100% correct, but I have faith that it will come true.  I believe that all men are inherently evil.  That has nothing to do with religion; just personal choices.

Your choice to follow whatever method of thinking is your belief.  You obviously have faith in your own belief, otherwise you wouldn't care to believe in it in the first place.  Thinking "rationally" is only based on the information you know and unless you experience the "truth" firsthand, you can't claim everything you read in a science text 100% correct otherwise you're putting FAITH in someone else's work.

An Atheist who criticizes a Christian is just as wrong as a Christian who criticizes an Atheist.  All men have free will to believe whatever they wish to and no one can question that; anyone who says otherwise is a fucking hypocrite.  You may disagree with them, but that's fine.  That's natural.  But telling them they are wrong for not believing what you believe, regardless of what it is, makes you a piece of trash. 

Rationality is only based on your own logic and no one thinks the same thus everyone believes something different.

There, I just criticized your beliefs.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Fatboys #4 on December 16, 2007, 02:51:04 am
I know that everyone is different and what works for some may not work for others, but I just encourage you to try this out

Obviously that sentence went without notice. It's just something that worked for me and could potentially work for someone else. I didn't come here to challenge your beliefs or to say that what you believe is wrong and shouldn't be practiced, I just wanted to give a new perspective. Each of us has our own views and beliefs that work for us, but I think the main thing here is that in our lives we seek this - happiness and stability. You go to school to get a better education (or you may not, some people join the military, start bands, become skilled in a trade, etc..) to get a job that will pay you good money so you can live without financial stress and do the things you love the most. After all, we can agree on one thing, this is the only life we get, so do the things you want to do because life is too short and if that includes flaming me because I was wanted to inform the possibly uninformed about a new perspective, so be it. Just know I respect your beliefs and don't give you shit so you could atleast do the same for me. Thanks. haha love ya gw, honestly. You give me entertainment and brain tickles.  ​
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on December 16, 2007, 02:51:42 am
Belief and faith go hand in hand but they aren't exclusively religious.  I have faith that I will die only of natural causes; I'm not 100% correct, but I have faith that it will come true.  I believe that all men are inherently evil.  That has nothing to do with religion; just personal choices.

Your choice to follow whatever method of thinking is your belief.  You obviously have faith in your own belief, otherwise you wouldn't care to believe in it in the first place.  Thinking "rationally" is only based on the information you know and unless you experience the "truth" firsthand, you can't claim everything you read in a science text 100% correct otherwise you're putting FAITH in someone else's work.

An Atheist who criticizes a Christian is just as wrong as a Christian who criticizes an Atheist.  All men have free will to believe whatever they wish to and no one can question that; anyone who says otherwise is a fucking hypocrite.  You may disagree with them, but that's fine.  That's natural.  But telling them they are wrong for not believing what you believe, regardless of what it is, makes you a piece of trash. 

Rationality is only based on your own logic and no one thinks the same thus everyone believes something different.

There, I just criticized your beliefs.

See, now you're starting to get it.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Frankie on December 16, 2007, 05:09:25 am
I don't understand angry black man, are you simply against the fact we are discussing this? I mean what else is there to talk about? He tells a story about how a new view of life has changed him and made him a better man, and people tell their thoughts about this philosophy of his.  I don't think its inappropriate or anything...
The posts seem to almost unanimously disagree with the new view of life so far, so it does make it seem like hes being CORNERED AND ATTACKED, but most posts don't really seem like flames, either. I think you're overreacting.

(about this here META-DEBATE: CRITICISING BELIEFS BLAH BLAH FAITH BLAH BLAH. I feel like entering this here because I get the feeling many people participate in these debates because we all use the same terms without a firm consensus on their meanings, so people end up confused and the debates go nowhere. Though im not sure if what Angry Black Man said was actually part of the debate or was just some sort of attack on the very idea of questioning beliefs? Or some sort of mix of both? mmmh....

)
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Avatar on December 16, 2007, 05:43:43 am
Quote
Belief and faith go hand in hand but they aren't exclusively religious.  I have faith that I will die only of natural causes; I'm not 100% correct, but I have faith that it will come true.  I believe that all men are inherently evil.  That has nothing to do with religion; just personal choices.

Your choice to follow whatever method of thinking is your belief.  You obviously have faith in your own belief, otherwise you wouldn't care to believe in it in the first place.  Thinking "rationally" is only based on the information you know and unless you experience the "truth" firsthand, you can't claim everything you read in a science text 100% correct otherwise you're putting FAITH in someone else's work.

An Atheist who criticizes a Christian is just as wrong as a Christian who criticizes an Atheist.  All men have free will to believe whatever they wish to and no one can question that; anyone who says otherwise is a fucking hypocrite.  You may disagree with them, but that's fine.  That's natural.  But telling them they are wrong for not believing what you believe, regardless of what it is, makes you a piece of trash.

Rationality is only based on your own logic and no one thinks the same thus everyone believes something different.

There, I just criticized your beliefs.
I never stated they were exclusively religious.  I simply stated that beliefs are not inherently valuable, and they should always be criticized.  For some reason you sound as if "Criticism" is a bad thing.  Although stating an "Atheist" who criticizes a Christian is just as wrong as vice versa is sort of silly, since one(Atheists) are not presuming anything, while the other is making a baseless statement.  Atheists lack belief in the supernatural; this is based on the lack of reason or evidence towards a presumed "belief." Criticism of beliefs, including your own, refines them; I can question anybody I want, including myself.  This does not make me a hypocrite; this makes me smart.  Your assumption that beliefs are inherently valuable without any criticism, reasoning, and thought is pathetic at best.  If people don't like having their beliefs criticized, then they should put more time into rationaling their beliefs to themselves first; theres a lot of refining that can be done.

You could call me a piece of trash all you want.  I would just laugh.  Talk about PC.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marcus on December 16, 2007, 05:50:16 am
Quote
Though im not sure if what Angry Black Man said was actually part of the debate or was just some sort of attack on the very idea of questioning beliefs?
People fight and die in order to protect what they believe in.  It's a personal discovery and there's no way you can criticize it because it's not something you've experienced personally.  It's like saying "Everyone who smokes pot is bad" or "Minorities exaggerate racism"; if you've never dealt with pot or if you've never experienced racism, there's no way you can intelligently tell someone "you are flawed" based on what you've never experienced. 

I just don't like conversations about this kind of matter period and I try my hardest not to post in them but I made a mistake in doing so.  Uh... just ignore all my posts because I won't be coming back here!
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Fatboys #4 on December 16, 2007, 06:25:11 am
I don't understand angry black man, are you simply against the fact we are discussing this? I mean what else is there to talk about? He tells a story about how a new view of life has changed him and made him a better man, and people tell their thoughts about this philosophy of his.  I don't think its inappropriate or anything...
The posts seem to almost unanimously disagree with the new view of life so far, so it does make it seem like hes being CORNERED AND ATTACKED, but most posts don't really seem like flames, either. I think you're overreacting.

I don't think it's inappropriate either. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW! GASP!  :fogetemo:​
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: GirlBones on December 17, 2007, 04:04:02 am
Negative thinking makes me a more interesting person. People enjoy my company because of my dry, fatalistic humor and my occasionally cutting wit. I am prepared by my negative thoughts for the occurrence of misfortune. Negative thinking allows me to lend a critical eye to art and literature when I am in class. Negative thinking is the basis of rhetoric and the scientific method. Thinking negatively allows me to ready myself for interpersonal and emotional pain. 

You, good sir, can keep your positive thinking. I want none of it.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: LORd on December 17, 2007, 03:06:47 pm
Wow, this thread really surprised me with how different meanings people have for different words. When I think pessivism and negative thinking, I get this mental image of a caricature incapable of hope, happiness and action out of fear for a less-than-desirable outcome, but the way you describe it the mindset has nothing to do with such qualities: it seems more like a healthy dose of realism combined with a grim perseverance. Looks like I need to be more careful from now on with how I throw the terms around!

In the same way I see optimism as the courage to face failure and firm faith in an upwards trend of humanity instead of this comical disbelief in anything bad happening ever or wistful thinking about miracle powers. Looks like we've been talking about entirely different things!

(ps karma rules it is not some utterly perfect celestial poetic justice but simply the way of the world. be an ass to people and look no one's left to stick up for you!!)
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Brown on December 17, 2007, 03:35:30 pm
oh man Fatboys i am/was/willbe in the same exact position as you. haha. I smoke pot everyday, and then get that drug depression you get. that void you felt, i felt too. except how you agree that its a woman issue, Im in denial although i know thats exactly what it is. I had a chance to watch the secret with some of my friends, but i had a blueberry blunt that day so i was SOOOOooo out of it that i just went home and slept. Also, that wiki of Law of Attraction, ive read that too before. haha oh man. The only thing I haven't done is take anti depressants. I smoke cigarettes too :D​. Im going to try these anti-depressants and see if they change my life as well. Thanks for sharing dude
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Vellfire on December 17, 2007, 10:33:00 pm
y'know, I'm an atheist, but everytime I eat a PEACH, it is one of those things that makes me believe there is a God

this is the best post ever posted


100% true
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Xeno|Soft on December 18, 2007, 02:58:09 pm
I don't think negatively or positively ...I just think realistically. Anyone who walks around thinking that everything bad that can go bad, will go bad...is not living life and anyone who walks around thinking nothing bad will happen to them have will live a very ignorant life.

What is a realist? I person who understands that in order to make something happen, he has to set it in motion, he has to act. He also understands that every actions has risks and reactions. He thinks about them and makes a choice based on what he knows. He often researches what he is doing to minimize risk of failure.

But most importantly he doesn't spend 90% of time daydreaming about what he wants, he's out there making it happen.

Positive thoughts only inspire you to put your heart and passion into what you want. It's the gas for your car, go ahead and drive already.


Also, that bank story....lmao, unless your bank gives you a 50% interest growth rate, or someone else has access into your account or the bank messed up a transaction (and neither can be linked to positive thoughts.) I say bull.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Vellfire on December 18, 2007, 05:31:13 pm
Also, that bank story....lmao, unless your bank gives you a 50% interest growth rate, or someone else has access into your account or the bank messed up a transaction (and neither can be linked to positive thoughts.) I say bull.

What?  My parents put money into my account all the time, it's probably something like that.  I mean yeah, it has NOTHING to do with positive thinking, but I wouldn't say it DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: JJ on December 18, 2007, 11:00:05 pm
My mother made me watch the Secret and it didn't enlighten me in any way whatsoever. It's presenting the REVOLUTIONARY CONCEPT that "a positive outlook on life makes you more pleasant and makes you experience your day better". Now that's ground-breaking, isn't it? They talk about how you can be granted everything you've ever dreamed about: Wealth, power, fame, by wishing for it to come true basically. Seeing it as I don't want anything of that, I thought it was a complete waste of time. In fact it was just bullshit.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Marcus on December 19, 2007, 07:14:06 am
I think the point in "thinking positively" is that you focus your mind on obtaining what you desire THUS you strive for what you desire.  Believing you can bend matter via pure emotion is just retarded, but thinking positively doesn't mean you are ill prepared for CRUSHING DEFEAT but it could possibly mean taking advantage of beneficial situations more so than a normal person.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: ThugTears666 on December 19, 2007, 07:45:57 am
Negative thinking makes me a more interesting person. People enjoy my company because of my dry, fatalistic humor and my occasionally cutting wit. I am prepared by my negative thoughts for the occurrence of misfortune. Negative thinking allows me to lend a critical eye to art and literature when I am in class. Negative thinking is the basis of rhetoric and the scientific method. Thinking negatively allows me to ready myself for interpersonal and emotional pain. 

You, good sir, can keep your positive thinking. I want none of it.


Expect misfortune? I'd rather not.

Hahah have fun being depressed. I like being happy.





"oh man this concert blows, I'm having such an average time"

"holy fuck this is the best show ever, I'm having a great time"
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Erave on December 19, 2007, 07:50:44 am
I think the point in "thinking positively" is that you focus your mind on obtaining what you desire THUS you strive for what you desire.  Believing you can bend matter via pure emotion is just retarded, but thinking positively doesn't mean you are ill prepared for CRUSHING DEFEAT but it could possibly mean taking advantage of beneficial situations more so than a normal person.

To elaborate on this. Positive thinking gets your brain fired up to search any and every way to achieve your goal. When you're trying to start a band and your heart and mind is set on it, when you walk around the mall every book entitled "THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO STARTING A BAND" is gonna catch your eye IMMEDIATELY. Your mind is extremely powerful. If you go through life cynical and refusing to "trust" on your mind's potential simple by CHANGING the way you think or have a good attitude because it's irrational you're probably going to miss out on a lot of oppurtunities because you didn't charge your mind for its potential. If you honestly don't think changing your mind set and outlook will affect results or atleast bring change you're crazy.

But I'm sure everyone will say this is bull shit because it involves not cynically picking everything apart like an intelligent open minded person would do  :hmm:
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Avatar on December 19, 2007, 08:24:56 am
Quote
Your mind is extremely powerful. If you go through life cynical and refusing to "trust" on your mind's potential
...being cynical has nothing to do with not "trusting" your minds potential.  Theres a realistic point where "approaching or trying" for a goal stops being viable.  Just as easily, I can say you waste more effort and time trying to achieve bluntly unrealistic goals(at a certain point), then what you do accomplish.

If thinking "positive" is just focusing on obtaining a goal, then I think theres nothing particularly special with "positive thinking," because that's simply being realistic.  A lot of "positive thinkers" are unrealistic, fruity people who think life is sun shine and bubble gum.  I would say there is a considerable difference between focusing on a goal you want to reach and trying to reach it, and thinking that outcome will happen regardless of reality.

Quote
Hahah have fun being depressed. I like being happy.
If happiness means being deluded then I'd pick un-happiness.  I don't get the huge hard-on over being happy all the time either.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: ThugTears666 on December 19, 2007, 09:06:16 am
...being cynical has nothing to do with not "trusting" your minds potential.  Theres a realistic point where "approaching or trying" for a goal stops being viable.  Just as easily, I can say you waste more effort and time trying to achieve bluntly unrealistic goals(at a certain point), then what you do accomplish.

If thinking "positive" is just focusing on obtaining a goal, then I think theres nothing particularly special with "positive thinking," because that's simply being realistic.  A lot of "positive thinkers" are unrealistic, fruity people who think life is sun shine and bubble gum.  I would say there is a considerable difference between focusing on a goal you want to reach and trying to reach it, and thinking that outcome will happen regardless of reality.
If happiness means being deluded then I'd pick un-happiness.  I don't get the huge hard-on over being happy all the time either.


I agree with everything you said there, thinking negatively is pretty silly in the same way being deluded is, they both prevent you from enjoying reality. 

Realism is the key.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Erave on December 19, 2007, 11:57:55 pm
...being cynical has nothing to do with not "trusting" your minds potential.  Theres a realistic point where "approaching or trying" for a goal stops being viable.  Just as easily, I can say you waste more effort and time trying to achieve bluntly unrealistic goals(at a certain point), then what you do accomplish.

If thinking "positive" is just focusing on obtaining a goal, then I think theres nothing particularly special with "positive thinking," because that's simply being realistic.  A lot of "positive thinkers" are unrealistic, fruity people who think life is sun shine and bubble gum.  I would say there is a considerable difference between focusing on a goal you want to reach and trying to reach it, and thinking that outcome will happen regardless of reality.
If happiness means being deluded then I'd pick un-happiness.  I don't get the huge hard-on over being happy all the time either.

Nice arguement. I mean those optimistc people truely are fruity people who are "bubble gum" and "sunshine" similar to the pessimistic people who spend all day slitting their wrists and howling at the black moon.

I'm not saying it's the best way. But changing the way you think can bring drastic changes in your life. If you don't believe in the power of your mind, then you are cutting yourself short. All the time your mind blanks out things it deems "unimportant". What if one day you focused your mind to focus on all these details. Think of driving down a highway. you don't read and analyze every sign. At some point though if you decide your hungry, every sign that has anything food related will pop up.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Avatar on December 20, 2007, 03:32:28 am
Quote
Nice arguement. I mean those optimistc people truely are fruity people who are "bubble gum" and "sunshine" similar to the pessimistic people who spend all day slitting their wrists and howling at the black moon.
Good thing I'm not advocating either attitude, right? 

Quote
I'm not saying it's the best way. But changing the way you think can bring drastic changes in your life. If you don't believe in the power of your mind, then you are cutting yourself short. All the time your mind blanks out things it deems "unimportant". What if one day you focused your mind to focus on all these details. Think of driving down a highway. you don't read and analyze every sign. At some point though if you decide your hungry, every sign that has anything food related will pop up.
If I'm looking at signs, I notice signs that tell me about food, regardless of whether I'm hungry or not; such is viewing reality as it is.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: dada on December 20, 2007, 07:01:58 am
but uh, i'd very much disagree with you saying that, even though effort/luck are the major factors involved in deciding what does and does not happen in your life, what you think about what's going to happen doesn't affect anything.  your thoughts dictate your attitude, and very few people can honestly say that their attitude never influences their actions.  there's a big difference, i think, between looking at something positively and looking at the same thing negatively; the difference is how you perceive it, and a person's perception of a situation, or another person, or whatever, can have a fairly extraordinary effect.
Oh, absolutely, but you're talking about it from a different perspective than I was. It's always a good thing to be passionate about whatever it is you do, but in order to accomplish anything, you must plan things out in a realistic manner. When I'm comparing pessimism with optimism, to me, it's like comparing realists with idealists (impractical people). Being inclined towards realistic thinking doesn't necessarily mean that one won't be very ambitious.
that's not to say that a positive perspective will necessarily lead to a more favorable chain of events or anything, but still, it's a definite possibility, and even a likelihood that it will lead to SOMETHING different, good or bad.
Well, yeah, because inevitably both a positive and a negative perspective will lead to some kind of tangible plan with a certain chance of success. I think it depends more on the creativity of said person.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: Vellfire on December 20, 2007, 01:00:38 pm
Wait, why the hell do people think that cynical, realistic people are depressed?  I'm like that, but I'm one of the only people I know that doesn't sit through fairly long depression periods.  Most people I've seen will have several times when they're depressed, but then go on about how optimistic they are (or are trying to be).  It has nothing to do with it.
Title: A life-changing experience that I wish to share
Post by: EvilDemonCreature on December 20, 2007, 08:38:36 pm
I've gone between being depressed and being optimistic so many times that I can think about myself in either of those states in a nearly objective manner. That is, I can recognize both states, and more or less understand that they aren't really showing me significant insight into the state of my own life.