Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: SEimagery on January 22, 2008, 05:40:45 pm
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Ok, I have been dedicated to Nintendo since i was four years old. Nintendo games have always been the definition to me, of video games.
With Mario Galaxy out, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl on its way...i MUST GET MY HANDS ON A WII!!!
However...it is fuckin impossible to find one, without spending 500$ online. I have called Walmart on days when supposedly they are getting a shipment in, and either the electronics guy is a fuckin retard, or they are holding out on me, cause they never get em. I have tried and tried many stores around me, called and asked when their LAST shipment was, trying to figure out when they would get it, ive called fedex and ups seeeing what damn days they deliver to certain stores, and im still fucked.
My question to you is, how did you get your wii?
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I got my wii by waiting in front of the store the day it came out.
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Santa gave me my Wii
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Damn you Carius! DAmn you Santa!
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I guess it will be a long time before you ever get one, huh?
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You go to the store.
Every.
single.
day.
Or get some insider information from somewhere, which is usually easy to come by.
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I used Airmiles to purchase my Wii.
Like, holy shit - Airmiles.
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They are almost always in stock at every store in my area other than Best Buy and video game retailers such as Gamestop -- except for the last month or so, because of holiday sales. I'm for another week or two that a lot of stores will never actually put any units on the shelf because they sold so many rain checks over the holidays (people could buy an empty Wii box and give that as a gift with the promise that they had "dibs" whenever any more came in stock). Anyway, I recommend checking retailers in small towns as well as retailers you wouldn't normally go to buy video games (such as ShopKo).
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I got my wii by camping out for the reservation then I just waltzed right in and got it. I never seen wii in stock before though. I always see ps3s.
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be patient, and wait till everyone else has one, then buy it.
steal one.
lurk in a gaming store 24/7 and play it there?
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Don't call, go into the stores and ask.
Chances are, if you call you'll get the electronics guy, and he knows he can't tell you there's a wii there. But maybe, just maybe, you'll get the 16 year old idiot who doesn't know better, and he'll say "yea we got one back here," or "were getting em tomorrow"
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Wow, they've been in stock over here since forever! I mean I think the last time they were actually OUT OF STOCK was when they first came out.
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Found one at a local electronics store, it was during my moving to my new house, i seen it there, and asked how much, I thought, I have the money for it here and now, and if I don't buy it, I won't get another chance, and so I bought it. :P
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Find a town with a small population nearby (perferrably with a "middle of nowhere" kind of vibe), and methodically call the store(s) that carry a wii. Once a few come in stock, follow it up ASAP (this is important because even with this strategy, my family came across the last one out of 6 within the span of 35 minutes).
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wii's are sold out everywhere in england, it's pretty hysterical they've been seen to go for over £1000 on ebay.co.uk. We have two in our house (my brother got his before they became popular, and my parents got theirs just before the mass wiihysteria took over). I can't understand it myself (the wii has terrible games).
There was a local Toys R Us... who rather foolishly advertised in Friday's paper just before christmas that they were getting Wiis in, but only six. It's all they could get.
About a hundred people started queing up outside the store by about tea time on Friday (the store had to open early on Saturday and then there was some shit about the first people in the line and not getting their wiis... it was a month or so ago and I forget details), but it's just silly imo, it's a console... wait a year and pick one up then
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but it's just silly imo, it's a console... wait a year and pick one up then
But it's already been over a year :(
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Yeah Kroawu, how much longer do the good, hard working and always deserving; Wii-less people have to wait?
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don't get a wii, it's a substandard system with dreadful games. it's really nothing more than wireless gamecube
unless you like shit that is CUTE in which case this will give you a 12 hour erection(at which point all the games get extremely boring)
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don't get a wii, it's a substandard system with dreadful games. it's really nothing more than wireless gamecube
unless you like shit that is CUTE in which case this will give you a 12 hour erection(at which point all the games get extremely boring)
This, unless you really like mini-game based games and have 4 people around constantly to play them with you.
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I can get you one.
I am dead serious too.
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don't get a wii, it's a substandard system with dreadful games. it's really nothing more than wireless gamecube
you will not believe how angry people get when you point this out.
I know people think I pick fights but I will seriously just say something like "nah, the Wii has nothing on it" and they will sputter and fume and be like SMASH BROTHERS AND MARIO GALAXY AND YOU'RE A FAGGOT LORD and it's really surprising because I don't see 360 owners or PS3 people (DONT EXIST) ever getting so mad at the same claim.
you'd think paying less would have made them not care as much if they wasted their money but no they are furious!!!
don't buy any new console although I've had decent times on a 360 before (but only with friends) that's my two cents.
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Thanks...but the reason I posted this, is casue i've already obviously made up my mind I want a Nintendo Wii. Thank you for your concern though =]
@Wack : I'm curious...how can you get me one, that dont cost 500$? =D
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You go to the store.
Every.
single.
day.
Or get some insider information from somewhere, which is usually easy to come by.
This is what I did. Took about 5 days of waking up right before the store opened until I got lucky.
And my luck with insider info wasn't good. I had three people that worked at places that sold Wiis but none of their info was ever reliable.
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I walked into Walmart one day and found one. And sold it on ebay.
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Insider info doesn't work with the Wii right now. I work at a very large electronics retailer. When I see Wiis on the shelf, all I need to do is go to the restroom, and when I come out, the Wiis are gone. That fast.
Nintendo has tapped into a completely different market. The non-gamers. They have successfully quintupled their possible user base, and thus they are having a hard time keeping stock up. I hear they are expanding, actually building new assembly plants devoted to constructing Wiis.
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I waited in front of my wal-mart (AKA My job) and camped out with all the other suckers and picked it up on 2006.
also we hi-jacked wal-marts power (thanks to the vending machines) and play all sorts of games GH2 and madden 07 in the fucking cold.
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SMASH BROTHERS AND MARIO GALAXY AND YOU'RE A FAGGOT LORD
this exactly what people say when I tell them what games I hate
why oh why did I buy a wii?
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Nintendo purposefully randomizes their shipments so it's literally a SURPRISE when a store gets them. They don't want mobs at a store buying a fuckton just to turn around and sell on Ebay. Speaking of which, faggots on ebay actually sell the system BY PIECE meaning you pay for the wii, the wiimote, the nunchuk, and the wii sports game SEPERATELY but as part of one large package which jacks the price up by 100 bux.
Anyways, I just want to say in this topic
FUCK THE WII
I bought it in December 06 (I walked in a store, asked for one, they had one, I bought it) and I bought Twilight Princess because I thought it would be cool. Turns out Twilight Princess was a pretty sub-par Zelda game so I didn't touch my Wii until yesterday. I bought Zak and Wiki because I heard it was an above average puzzle action game. I put the disc in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I put Zelda in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I put Ikaruga in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I download Paper Mario which works fine. I try out all the Wii channels and the internet connection and they work fine.
HOW THE FUCK, AFTER EXACTLY 12 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY IN THE COURSE OF A YEAR, DOES A FUCKING WII BREAK???!!!! The thing was literally sitting in the original box, in a closet, for an entire year and it's broken after only 12 fucking hours of fucking gameplay. People cause a shitstorm over the Xbox 360 for the red rings of death but I actually managed to get 2 years of almost nonstop playing from my Box before it broke and Nintendo's machine CRUMPLES after half a fucking day of playing?
And the warranty expired before I learned of the 90 day extension which would have let me send the system in with 20 something days to spare. Of course the warranty expires when the console breaks...
Thank you Nintendo for making a sub-par system and encouraging the release of sub-par games. I hope you guys are happy with your money printing machine because I am seriously never buying another Nintendo product again. I'm probably not even going to buy another videogame system again because faggots these days make cheapass products without even addressing the failure rate.
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Nintendo purposefully randomizes their shipments so it's literally a SURPRISE when a store gets them. They don't want mobs at a store buying a fuckton just to turn around and sell on Ebay. Speaking of which, faggots on ebay actually sell the system BY PIECE meaning you pay for the wii, the wiimote, the nunchuk, and the wii sports game SEPERATELY but as part of one large package which jacks the price up by 100 bux.
Anyways, I just want to say in this topic
FUCK THE WII
I bought it in December 06 (I walked in a store, asked for one, they had one, I bought it) and I bought Twilight Princess because I thought it would be cool. Turns out Twilight Princess was a pretty sub-par Zelda game so I didn't touch my Wii until yesterday. I bought Zak and Wiki because I heard it was an above average puzzle action game. I put the disc in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I put Zelda in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I put Ikaruga in my Wii and... DISC NOT READING. I download Paper Mario which works fine. I try out all the Wii channels and the internet connection and they work fine.
HOW THE FUCK, AFTER EXACTLY 12 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY IN THE COURSE OF A YEAR, DOES A FUCKING WII BREAK???!!!! The thing was literally sitting in the original box, in a closet, for an entire year and it's broken after only 12 fucking hours of fucking gameplay. People cause a shitstorm over the Xbox 360 for the red rings of death but I actually managed to get 2 years of almost nonstop playing from my Box before it broke and Nintendo's machine CRUMPLES after half a fucking day of playing?
And the warranty expired before I learned of the 90 day extension which would have let me send the system in with 20 something days to spare. Of course the warranty expires when the console breaks...
Thank you Nintendo for making a sub-par system and encouraging the release of sub-par games. I hope you guys are happy with your money printing machine because I am seriously never buying another Nintendo product again. I'm probably not even going to buy another videogame system again because faggots these days make cheapass products without even addressing the failure rate.
Mine works just fine your must be defective.
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Mine works just fine your must be defective.
The same can be said about the Xbox 360 and PS3. Why is it that Nintendo has a stupid 12 month warranty while Microsoft offers a 36 month warranty? The Wii is still as prone to failure as the 360 but since the 360 has been out for a year longer more people have found things wrong with the system.
I bet you all the contents of my wallet that by this summer there'll be a whole lot more people like me who have had the system break down on them.
I told myself never to buy a system at launch after the PS2 NOT READING BLUE BACK DISCS SRRY fiasco but when the only Wii in the entire county had a copy one month after the launch date I couldn't resist.
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That sucks angry black man. I'd be hella pissed too.
I dont care if people post their views on Nintendo or the Wii, just...lets keep this non flame.
Thanks to everyone who gave ideas, my quest has not ended, rather, my journey begins...*epic music plays*
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The same can be said about the Xbox 360 and PS3. Why is it that Nintendo has a stupid 12 month warranty while Microsoft offers a 36 month warranty? The Wii is still as prone to failure as the 360 but since the 360 has been out for a year longer more people have found things wrong with the system.
I bet you all the contents of my wallet that by this summer there'll be a whole lot more people like me who have had the system break down on them.
I told myself never to buy a system at launch after the PS2 NOT READING BLUE BACK DISCS SRRY fiasco but when the only Wii in the entire county had a copy one month after the launch date I couldn't resist.
XBox 360 only has a 12 month warranty for most errors, too. The 36 month warranty is just for Red Ring of Death-related failures. And the 360 is way more prone to those particular breakdowns than either of the others--current estimates put it at about 1 in 3 of the early systems will break down, and 1 in 10 of the current board. But the suggestions I've heard suggest that the ones that are going to get RRoDs are going to do so in the first six months, so I doubt the extended warranty will make much of a difference anyway.
This is all based on reports that the various gaming sites have done, especially an interview with a former MS employee (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp) who spilled the beans on the 360's Red Ring failures. There's little question that the 360's been suffering more breakdowns than the other systems. Microsoft has to have that extended warranty or no one would want to take the risk if they've got a one in ten chance of getting a defective system.
I'm not trying to say that it doesn't suck that your Wii broke down--any line is going to have flawed units come out, and you were pretty unlucky. But I haven't seen any information suggesting the Wii or the PS3 are as prone to failure as the 360.
And this isn't me speaking as a Nintendo fanboy--I just bought my own 360, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed (and the system as heavily ventilated as possible) that it doesn't break down. That's why I've got this information at hand--I've been trying to keep the information at hand so I know if I'm going to be throwing my money away or not.
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(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/57278/815c6b9d11200f902a5a00a37a4f89c15db9e10f.jpg)
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The same can be said about the Xbox 360 and PS3. Why is it that Nintendo has a stupid 12 month warranty while Microsoft offers a 36 month warranty? The Wii is still as prone to failure as the 360 but since the 360 has been out for a year longer more people have found things wrong with the system.
I bet you all the contents of my wallet that by this summer there'll be a whole lot more people like me who have had the system break down on them.
I told myself never to buy a system at launch after the PS2 NOT READING BLUE BACK DISCS SRRY fiasco but when the only Wii in the entire county had a copy one month after the launch date I couldn't resist.
The 360 is a tank. And I'll take you up on that bet. And Zak and Wiki is a pretty damn good game. Challenging at times, but pretty fun.
lol Steel
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XBox 360 only has a 12 month warranty for most errors, too. The 36 month warranty is just for Red Ring of Death-related failures. And the 360 is way more prone to those particular breakdowns than either of the others--current estimates put it at about 1 in 3 of the early systems will break down, and 1 in 10 of the current board. But the suggestions I've heard suggest that the ones that are going to get RRoDs are going to do so in the first six months, so I doubt the extended warranty will make much of a difference anyway.
My informal research tells me that the 360 failure rate is actually somewhere closer to 200%. My original unit died within a month, and its replacement has started to have difficulty accessing the hard drive and freezes often enough that I have stopped playing it (the last straw was last week, when I had played Blue Dragon for an hour and the unit froze during the save screen, I pretty much gave up on videogames in general forever). I don't doubt it will fail again soon. In the videogame podcasts I listen to, literally every host has had a 360 die on them, and many of them have had two or three units die. Also, every (again, literally) friend of mine that owns a 360 has had a unit die on them, and in some cases, more than one. Just thought I would clarify that.
I'm not sure why your Wii died, Marcus. I imagine it's just unusually defective. I have noticed that the Wii generates a shocking amount of heat just being plugged in and in standby mode (it's really, really disturbing), but since yours wasn't plugged in, I'm really surprised.
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I'm just really angry right now because No More Heroes just came out, the store called me about my preorder, and I don't feel like running down to the wal-mart (which has 10 Wii's in stock... go figure) and spending another 250 bux on one. I can still play all of my Wii Shop games but I read somewhere that you can't transfer those so if I buy a new Wii then I have to keep both of them around to play two separate games.
But I'm sick of today's failure rates for machines and it pretty much attributes to the moving parts. My Atari from the mid 80s still works. My front loading NES still works granted you have to slam the cartridge down and sacrifice a virgin in its name but it still plays. I'm praying to whatever god wants to listen that the next generation of consoles eschews discs for straight up hard drive games. A terrabyte hardrive is stupidly cheap these days (we're talking 400-500 bux depending on where you shop around). In a year or two it'll be entirely possible to just create diskettes or something THAT DOESNT MOVE and downloads itself to a harddrive. Not only would it load faster than a CD but a machine without moving parts would have half the failure rate as these cheap pieces of plastic junk companies are flinging around.
angry rant over.
I have noticed that the Wii generates a shocking amount of heat just being plugged in and in standby mode (it's really, really disturbing), but since yours wasn't plugged in, I'm really surprised.
My Wii is on standby right now and I'm surprised it hasn't melted the cords that are laying 10 feet away from it. This thing is like a furnace. No wonder they sell add-on fans for this thing
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I'm not sure why your Wii died, Marcus. I imagine it's just unusually defective. I have noticed that the Wii generates a shocking amount of heat just being plugged in and in standby mode (it's really, really disturbing), but since yours wasn't plugged in, I'm really surprised.
I've noticed this too, but I usually keep all of my systems off/unplugged when I'm not using them (since I rarely have the time to play games), so hopefully that'll extend its life. It's weird how much heat it generates for such a small system.
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I'm just really angry right now because No More Heroes just came out, the store called me about my preorder, and I don't feel like running down to the wal-mart (which has 10 Wii's in stock... go figure) and spending another 250 bux on one. I can still play all of my Wii Shop games but I read somewhere that you can't transfer those so if I buy a new Wii then I have to keep both of them around to play two separate games.
But I'm sick of today's failure rates for machines and it pretty much attributes to the moving parts. My Atari from the mid 80s still works. My front loading NES still works granted you have to slam the cartridge down and sacrifice a virgin in its name but it still plays. I'm praying to whatever god wants to listen that the next generation of consoles eschews discs for straight up hard drive games. A terrabyte hardrive is stupidly cheap these days (we're talking 400-500 bux depending on where you shop around). In a year or two it'll be entirely possible to just create diskettes or something THAT DOESNT MOVE and downloads itself to a harddrive. Not only would it load faster than a CD but a machine without moving parts would have half the failure rate as these cheap pieces of plastic junk companies are flinging around.
angry rant over.
My Wii is on standby right now and I'm surprised it hasn't melted the cords that are laying 10 feet away from it. This thing is like a furnace. No wonder they sell add-on fans for this thing
My wii is just fine in stand by mode what's more troublesome is the PS3 when it's running....let me put it this way a hobo can use it as the most Expensive portable heater Hell it might be a good thing if I every get kicked out.
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But I'm sick of today's failure rates for machines and it pretty much attributes to the moving parts. My Atari from the mid 80s still works. My front loading NES still works granted you have to slam the cartridge down and sacrifice a virgin in its name but it still plays. I'm praying to whatever god wants to listen that the next generation of consoles eschews discs for straight up hard drive games. A terrabyte hardrive is stupidly cheap these days (we're talking 400-500 bux depending on where you shop around). In a year or two it'll be entirely possible to just create diskettes or something THAT DOESNT MOVE and downloads itself to a harddrive. Not only would it load faster than a CD but a machine without moving parts would have half the failure rate as these cheap pieces of plastic junk companies are flinging around.
Solid-state drives are the (near) future.
I will buy the A.B.M. console when you release it, for sure.
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My wii is just fine in stand by mode what's more troublesome is the PS3 when it's running....let me put it this way a hobo can use it as the most Expensive portable heater Hell it might be a good thing if I every get kicked out.
You should try the XBox 360. :( In my old apartment, which had a tiny living room, turning on the 360 would make a legitimately noticeable change in room temperature.
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I'm actually considering buying a wii just for super smash bros.
Is the wii really bad enough to not be worth it?
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I'm just really angry right now because No More Heroes just came out, the store called me about my preorder, and I don't feel like running down to the wal-mart (which has 10 Wii's in stock... go figure) and spending another 250 bux on one.
Ok, the following may be unethical, but you'll get a new Wii out of the deal. :shh:
Why don't you go and buy a new Wii, and then return it with the defective Wii in the box and tell the store it wouldn't play games for some reason? Instead of exchanging it ask for a refund because this defective product has left you distrustful of Nintendo products. You get your money back and a new (hopefully fully working) Wii in the process.
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Ok, the following may be unethical, but you'll get a new Wii out of the deal. :shh:
Why don't you go and buy a new Wii, and then return it with the defective Wii in the box and tell the store it wouldn't play games for some reason? Instead of exchanging it ask for a refund because this defective product has left you distrustful of Nintendo products. You get your money back and a new (hopefully fully working) Wii in the process.
Won't work Serial number on the consol must match the box to the consol Unless there stupid and like to take a big loss.
what you need to do is buy 2 of them and sell one on ebay and bam you make some back.
so you spend 500 and some tax you can consider it an investment.
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Why don't you go and buy a new Wii, and then return it with the defective Wii in the box and tell the store it wouldn't play games for some reason? Instead of exchanging it ask for a refund because this defective product has left you distrustful of Nintendo products. You get your money back and a new (hopefully fully working) Wii in the process.
I just came from the mall after purchasing No More Heroes and Etrian Odyssey* and they JUST restocked their shelves with 7 Wii's (which I guarantee won't be there by Friday afternoon). While picking up my games I told them of my dilemma and they said they still take in defected merchandise but a Wii can't be worth anymore than 80 credit and I'm trying to save my money. I eventually decided not to buy a new Wii but this isn't the first time a system has died on me this year. My second Xbox 360 died in the middle of Mass Effect (my first 360 died a year previous in the middle of Oblivion). I was thinking about buying a PS3 but then I came to my senses after my friend slapped me and said "No." I honestly think God doesn't want me to play videogames and the only thing that keeps me company these days are independent comic books, back issues of Heavy Metal, and my right hand.
what you need to do is buy 2 of them and sell one on ebay and bam you make some back.
I completely forgot about Ebay. I had enough money to buy all 7 Wii's in stock but I remember someone telling me that the store can refuse sales to individuals on popular products. Someone who walks in and buys the entire Wii stock is more than likely an internet scalper.
*Funny story, Etrian Odyssey cannot be found anywhere. EBgames/Gamestop doesn't even LIST IT on their website anymore. I finally found one used and brought it up to the counter. The guy rings it up but can't find the cartridge. I tell him "well keep searching lolz" and I stand there for half an hour before saying "Whatever" and I leave. Today I get a cell phone calling saying No More Heroes was ready and I go to pick it up. The guy from the day before recognized me and said that he called 45 different stores in the WA area until finally, a store in OREGON (400 miles away) had a copy which he asked to have delivered. When I pick up Heroes I also got Etrian. I said "Thank you, you are awesome" and the store manager practically promoted the dude on the spot to assistant manager.
Thank you Software, Etc. You really made my day. Now if only you could fix my fucking Wii because I have to resort to playing on my friend's system and he's never around.
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True they can refuse sales but it dose not hurt to ask if you don't ask you'll never know.
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I'm actually considering buying a wii just for super smash bros.
Is the wii really bad enough to not be worth it?
That's why I got mine.
I got SMG in the meanwhile. It's an okay game. Way too easy for my tastes, even though it got amazing reviews. Zak and Wiki is really good though. So is the new Metroid game (forgot what it's called ATM). It's a good system, but there aren't enough good games out for it. Hopefully that'll change soon. Take a look at the upcoming games on IGN and see if it's worth getting.
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Keep checking back I suppose. I know a lot of major retailers have only just completed or close to completed their inventory counts for the start of the new year so more places should start receiving stock of most things in due time. Besides, with Smash pushed off till March now that at least offers you some breathing room to actually track one down and be there with everyone else on day one. ;)
Though in the meantime there are some other pretty good games to check out, anyway.
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I kind of want to jump in here and defend the Wii a little bit after the whole "FUCK YOU" Marcus said.
I will agree, the Wii doesn'y have a lot of games for it that appeal to people like us (aka people who want a game with substance, rather than waggle motions). But I feel that the ones that it does make it worth the buy. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Resident Evil, No More Heroes, Smash Bros, Mario Kart - these are all good games that aren't on other systems (except RE4). I generally feel they are worth playing, and with the Wii being substantially less than the other systems, it's a good investment IMHO.
I haven't really played my Wii since I beat Metroid though. I bought Mario and only have like 10 stars. But I bought NMH today, so maybe that will change.
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what, how can you say No More Heroes when you just got it. or Smash Bros, which isn't out?
if you're going to include games that aren't out yet you might as well go as far as you want except I don't know of anything else lol.
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Ok, then most of these games are good except the ones that aren't out though they probably will be. NMH got 9's from nearly all reviews I checked, and Famitsu gave Brawl a 40/40. I didn't realize better reviews meant bad games.
Blow me Steel
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what, how can you say No More Heroes when you just got it. or Smash Bros, which isn't out?
if you're going to include games that aren't out yet you might as well go as far as you want except I don't know of anything else lol.
It'd be really, really hard to somehow fuck up a Mario Kart game. And bash it as much as you will, but there's no denying that Brawl looks amazing. Not even you can make it look bad.
If the people who played Brawl at E for All/Whobby (or the reviewers at Famitsu) are any indication, there's no doubt that it'll be a great title.
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For god's sake don't EVER buy a system on release.
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what, how can you say No More Heroes when you just got it. or Smash Bros, which isn't out?
if you're going to include games that aren't out yet you might as well go as far as you want except I don't know of anything else lol.
It's not all that bad really, especially considering a game like No More Heroes which has just released and has fair reviews going for it at the moment and Smash Bros. which is based on a running franchise that has been pretty "up there" for what it is; naming off potential winners seems sensible enough considering they might be something to check out if/when someone looking for the thing manages to find one in the meantime. Otherwise there is an existing library to pick through as well. This is especially seeing as many don't seem to think there is much to Wii's library as it is - a sort of "diamonds in the rough" kind of orientation.
At the very least Wackfiend is being reasonable with his choices when naming off those titles. He could have done like most people in various gaming communities and went off on a "list war" including (more often than not) stuff that is far more questionable because there is no set precedent for the title or it's not close enough in proximity to release to have anything that might point to said title being a considerable choice to begin with.
Well, all this barring personal taste of course. I'm sure there are people out there who wouldn't give a damn about any of those titles. :fogetmmh:
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Seriously...who doesn't buy a system because of future releases? Many people bought 360 BEFORE Halo 3, with the intentions of buying it. Before Gears of War, their were no good games on 360.
You can defend any system you want, or bash any system you want, however...this thread wasn't about it.
So pleassssse STFU!
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Hey Marcus, have you tried changing your Wii's orientation? A friend of mine had the same problem and he fixed it by going from having the system standing to laying it on it's side. It sounds stupid, but it did work.
Anyways, if you do need to send it in for repairs, they'll most likely just fix the dvd drive instead of giving you a new console. So you shouldn't have to worry too much about your downloaded games. Also try talking to a customer rep first before you fill out anything for the repair. You can sometimes talk them down on the price of it.
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...my point was that if you're going to name some stuff coming out, you might as well go ahead and name more, and I honestly can't think of any. that list he posted is all I can even think you'd own this thing for, and that's pretty small!
other than of course untitled mario project or whatever.
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You can defend any system you want, or bash any system you want, however...this thread wasn't about it.
GW Forums Law #15 (c): Any topic that mentions the Wii must invariably lead to a discussion surrounding the quality of said system.
Corollary: Comparisons to the Xbox360 and PS3 must follow.
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Hey Marcus, have you tried changing your Wii's orientation? A friend of mine had the same problem and he fixed it by going from having the system standing to laying it on it's side. It sounds stupid, but it did work.
Anyways, if you do need to send it in for repairs, they'll most likely just fix the dvd drive instead of giving you a new console. So you shouldn't have to worry too much about your downloaded games. Also try talking to a customer rep first before you fill out anything for the repair. You can sometimes talk them down on the price of it.
I changed the orientation several times, kicked the machine, banged it with my fist, kissed it, and smeared it with the blood of a sacred gazelle.
Nothing.
My last resort is to send it to Nintendo so they can charge me whatever ludicrous price there is to fix it. If it's too much (I'm saying more than 50 bux) then I'm just going to trade it in and buy several new ones so I can scalp them on ebay.
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There's... WII FITNESS (note: wii activities have been proven to be NO GOOD in replacement of REAL exercise and recent investigations are showing that in it's short amount of time released, wii playing can cause muscle and back pains. This game will now be titled WII ACTIVITIES incase of future legal actions against it) and... something Mario (Mariokart?)
My brother gets nintendo mag occasionally and there are like ten games comming out on the wii this year. seven of them being multi-console games. (KAWORU IS KNOWN FOR HIS ACCURATE STATISTICAL FACTS). The games that are out which arent multi console are generally useless/boring/repetative minigames (essentially flashgames just you move your wrist up and down... not like a mouse though) that if released on any other console would get mind-numbingly poor reviews (regardless of the controls being essentially the same, replacing wrist with LEFT THUMB). There's Red Steel and Zelda and Mario and Metroid...
Sorry but A 360 is more value than a wii, because you're buying a system which has more than four or five games which're better than Superman64. With the Wii... Superman64 begins to look as good as Zelda: Oot.
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I love happy games that make me feel like I'm apart of something better than myself. There isn't a day of my life I don't hop out of bed like it's Christmas morning, make a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios and sit in front of my TV while playing Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid 3 or Cooking Mama! Just the satisfaction of being able to look at the Wii brings me so much joy and happiness there is no such thing as a War in the middle east. Someday they will all gather together and hug. Only bullies play the Playstation and my mommy won't get me one cause they don't further my life skills. Anyone who owns a Playstation is evil says my mommy. She says there is a lot of guns and killing and evil things in Playstation, and because I don't want to be evil I leave it alone. But my cool big cousin Dean has an Xbox 360 and I was in awe of the little circle light. He let me play Halo 3 and I wasn't good at it but he rubbed me on the head and told me one day I can 'pwn noobs' with him. Dean is the best big cousin ever. But since I still live with mommy I have to play my wii, cause all I was yelling at mommy to get me for Christmas was a wii, and mommy says "be careful what you wish for, cause you might get it." So I can't get an Xbox360 cause I wanted a wii, but thats alright cause I like to save princesses.
No seriously, I've yet to get my wii. I'd rather rescue princesses and play "kiddy games" than go around murdering things. It's like most every Playstation and Xbox games has the same concept: 'go kill things', only there is a different story each time. Or you are gonna control a city with smooth moves and a car.
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...kicking my wii worked.
it's fucking working.
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...kicking my wii worked.
it's fucking working.
Nintendo and it's gimmicks. So fun.
Glad to hear it's working. Let me know what you think of Zak and Wiki.
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Sorry but A 360 is more value than a wii, because you're buying a system which has more than four or five games which're better than Superman64. With the Wii... Superman64 begins to look as good as Zelda: Oot.
Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?
If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.
There, I said it.
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Where all your arguments fail, is...it's your opinion.
I'm buying the Wii, because I have always loved Nintendo games. I dont care if not many games are coming out soon, because I will have Mario Galaxy, and Brawl to play. PLUS, I'll just download some classic games.
Now, this thread was made for finding a Wii, and I think that i'm pretty close to getting one now. Thank you for your input!
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Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?
If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.
There, I said it.
this is a fake post.
Where all your arguments fail, is...it's your opinion.
I'm buying the Wii, because I have always loved Nintendo games. I dont care if not many games are coming out soon, because I will have Mario Galaxy, and Brawl to play. PLUS, I'll just download some classic games.
Now, this thread was made for finding a Wii, and I think that i'm pretty close to getting one now. Thank you for your input!
opinions are not magic things that come out of nowhere but are based on facts I know right???????
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Glad to hear it's working. Let me know what you think of Zak and Wiki.
I can't play that. I can play all my gamecube games and stuff now but there's this tiny little scratch on my used copy of Zak and Wiki and I'm beginning to believe that any disc that's even simply flawed cannot be played.
I have played No More Heroes... and it's pretty average. It's like a poor man's version of God Hand minus the insane boss fights.
But considering the Wii's current library of "Point At Screen While Things Happen" and "Mario's Unlicensed Fantasy Sports Title" I can't complain.
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what is up with this revisionist God Hand stuff coming up all of a sudden.
wasn't that game horrible?
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Revisionist? I loved God Hand since it first came out and I haven't seen anyone else (except maybe Bisse) talk about the game on this forum in a long time.
It was the best beat 'em up since Streets of Rage although that's not saying much considering the line up in the past 10 years has consisted of NOTHING.
But yeah it was horrible if you sucked because even on easy the game was unforgiving.
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Where all your arguments fail, is...it's your opinion.
I'm buying the Wii, because I have always loved Nintendo games. I dont care if not many games are coming out soon, because I will have Mario Galaxy, and Brawl to play. PLUS, I'll just download some classic games.
Dude... I was a pretty big Ninty fanboy until I got hold of a wii (well actually gamecube was kinda ghey and then the DS...) but the wii kinda killed any respect I had for Nintendo. As like most people I was somewhat stupid in thinking that Nintendo were for OLD SCHOOL GAMING CHARM. The DS kinda showed that they was more into money and getting the casual gaming market, the Gamecube showed that they cared very little about game quality but the Wii has come along and showed us that Nintendo will release any trash for a quick quid. Wii sports... Wii play... these games could have been put on the virtual console for $0.99. Mario Party is even with other people utterly dull and devoid of any depth required to make a game even remotely interesting. Multi console games are comming out on the wii and are suffering because they seem to require to fullfill the console's gimmicks of making things as akward as possible to play (and for a guy like me who shakes, the wii is entirely user unfriendly).
If you've seen some of the youtube videos flying around by some asian guy(tm), you'd see that the Wii COULD be something great, but until they(nintendo) see that, it's just wasted potential. But they're not going to because they're doing the EA route of putting out drivel because it gets them the most money.
Believe me, this isn't the Nintendo wii think wii know and love. Nintendo have generally stopped caring about the games.
But what do I know, I'm a modern-hardcore gamer (and I hate myself for knowing all about the terminology used to describe gaming markets), and to me the casual gaming market is my worst nightmare, but I'm biased towards companies who turn their backs towards their fanbase (in nintendo's case it's the old-hardcore), in order to get more zenny.
And you could say my arguement fails... but it's based on more than just opinion. I read up on games, game development and game markets (I have no life), so this is one of the few times I can say I know some small amount about what I'm takling about.
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@ Kaworu : I do agree with many points you have made. Many of the games are stupid and repetitive, and yeah, i've seen the azn genious playing with the Wii and going further with it than Nintendo has. I do see Nintendo going for the more general public, instead of fanboys. And I too think it sucks. Fat retards who pronounce Mario, MAIR-E-OH, are latching onto the Wii now at every WalMart across America! It's scary...anyways...
But I am getting older, and I don't have time to play games as much as I use to. The reason I am buying a Wii, is so my friends and I can enjoy some fun games together. I dont plan on spending a ridiculous amount of money for video games. The only game I have really played a lot in the past year is Warcraft III : The Frozen Throne. Paying for a PS3 is insane, and I dont wanna have to pay monthly for Xboxlive, or even buy a 360.
This is why, in my opinion, the Wii wins for me...I enjoy Nintendo games. Galaxy, Brawl, LoZ, Metroid, eventully Mario Kart, Fire Emblem, etc...these killer APPS are good enough for me =D
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Where all your arguments fail, is...it's your opinion.
I'm buying the Wii, because I have always loved Nintendo games. I dont care if not many games are coming out soon, because I will have Mario Galaxy, and Brawl to play. PLUS, I'll just download some classic games.
Now, this thread was made for finding a Wii, and I think that i'm pretty close to getting one now. Thank you for your input!
The Wii Shop Channel is a great service, and I've purchased some wonderful classics I didn't play during my childhood, like Super Metroid.
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Thats awesome Vivi. Super Metroid is a great game ^_^
Do you know if they have Secret of Mana on there? Or is there a list of available games somewhere?
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Jesus Christ (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS243&q=List+of+virtual+console+titles)
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This topic is how he wanted a wii and how/where to get one. Not everybody is so rabidly anti-wii as some people here are. If he wants one, then that is that, it's up to him and he doesn't want people to try to convince him otherwise. I have the wii, and I really like it. That is MY opinion, but it's just to show you that some people actually like/love it.
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Thats awesome Vivi. Super Metroid is a great game ^_^
Do you know if they have Secret of Mana on there? Or is there a list of available games somewhere?
SoM is not out yet, and it sounds like Squenix has no plans to remake or port it soon, but they weren't clear whether or not that meant that they weren't interested in putting it on VC either, though. They sound like they do want to release Chrono Trigger, but that there are rights issues with the original copyright holders that they have to get around first. They've also released ActRaiser and (I think) Hanjuku Heroes (in Japan), so we know that with games that they have no plans to remake or port, they're not against going Virtual Console.
They said both of those statements back in Summer, though, and I haven't heard anything since.
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Thank you very much shadowtext. And thats a shame, one of the best games for the SNES =/
Looks like you didn't have a penis shoved in ur ass that made you cry "jesus christ"
=)
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I don't have respect for people that can find easily accessible information on their own.
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opinions are not magic things that come out of nowhere but are based on facts I know right???????
They come out of people's asses.
You make it sound as if opinions are facts. Yes, they are based on facts, but your interpretation of those facts makes it your opinion. Generally speaking, one person's opinion is no more accurate than another's.
In this case however, your opinion may be worth less than another person's, since I'm assuming you don't even have a Wii.
On topic though, the Wii isn't as bad as it seems. There are only a small number of good games out for it compared to other systems so your selection is smaller, but there's still plenty to keep you entertained. I've made a list of current and upcoming titles. I haven't played most of these, but they have fairly good reviews (and others you'd have to like the genre, like One Piece), but it's something to consider.
Current Titles:
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
No More Heroes
Battalion Wars 2
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Wario Ware: Smooth Moves
Super Paper Mario
Mario Strikers Charged
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Medal of Honor: Heroes 2
One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Super Mario Galaxy
Madden NFL 08
SSX Blur
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Scarface: The World is Yours
Zack and Wiki
Trauma Center: New Blood
DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Upcoming Titles:
Tales of Symphonia (sequel to the GC title)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
Worms: A Space Oddity
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
Okami
Baroque
Civilization Revolution
Harvest Moon Heroes
Bomberman Land
Boom Blox
Animal Crossing
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
King's Story
Disaster: Day of Crisis
de Blob
Alone in the Dark
Obscure: The Aftermath
SEGA Superstar Tennis
Rygar: The Battle of Argus
Mario Kart Wii
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They come out of people's asses.
You make it sound as if opinions are facts. Yes, they are based on facts, but your interpretation of those facts makes it your opinion. Generally speaking, one person's opinion is no more accurate than another's.
In this case however, your opinion may be worth less than another person's, since I'm assuming you don't even have a Wii.
...obviously interpretation does. saying something like WELL IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION is not a magic shield though. of course it's my opinion that I don't want to buy a Wii, and it's some people's opinion that they do. the point is to illustrate the flaws in that interpretation. I never said opinions were fact, I even CLARIFIED that point. opinions are based on facts.
also my opinion isn't worth less because I came to the conclusion I don't want one. seriously, if someone has an opinion against a political leader you can't just say "well you're not even a citizen of that country so no matter how much you know or what arguments you present, you'll never be as good as this Texan who voted for George W Bush godbless"
like, of all those games you listed, aside from many being ports or widely known as just par for the course, let me show you what I mean.
I would say that maybe two or three of those games has even the potential of a non-horrible story line or even a story focus at all. NOW: the way people who don't actually have basis behind their opinion will defend that list is "I DONT CARE ABOUT STORY LINES". the way people who DO have a basis will argue is that the Wii never was created to be a story intensive console to begin with, and at that point you have the divide that is unfortunately for most people unpassable. some people are just like "well I don't care about stories at all lol" and other people do or would rather be on a console that doesn't actively have this image of just being for gameplay only, and you can even extend that to people wanting to see just better videogames as a whole.
of course, expecting a level of discourse where you can actually discuss whether games should or even could evolve into the point of a legitimately well written story is way more than I have learned to expect of GW, so I'd rather post saying something like "Wii has like zero games" and have someone post a list that is mostly worthless or "Mario: Bath Sim" which I think does more to prove my point that Nintendo actively hates well plotted games so if you like flicking shit around for an hour and a half with no investment it's the console for you!
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also my opinion isn't worth less because I came to the conclusion I don't want one. seriously, if someone has an opinion against a political leader you can't just say "well you're not even a citizen of that country so no matter how much you know or what arguments you present, you'll never be as good as this Texan who voted for George W Bush godbless"
Right, but a person who owns a Wii and has played the games first hand has a more valid opinion than you do. Remember Last Man on Earth and how you bitched at me about it when I hadn't even seen the movie? It's the same thing here, except I backed down and you don't want to because you can't stand to lose an argument.
I would say that maybe two or three of those games has even the potential of a non-horrible story line or even a story focus at all. NOW: the way people who don't actually have basis behind their opinion will defend that list is "I DONT CARE ABOUT STORY LINES". the way people who DO have a basis will argue is that the Wii never was created to be a story intensive console to begin with, and at that point you have the divide that is unfortunately for most people unpassable. some people are just like "well I don't care about stories at all lol" and other people do or would rather be on a console that doesn't actively have this image of just being for gameplay only, and you can even extend that to people wanting to see just better videogames as a whole.
That's the thing though. Some people don't care about story lines. Some play games for the gameplay. People tell me Elder Scrolls has an amazing story, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole because the gameplay doesn't appeal to me, regardless of how good the story might be. All of those people who play shooters, fighting games, sports games, party games, music games, etc. don't care about story so they play games with good gameplay, which appeals to them. If Guitar Hero or Smash Bros. or Halo focused on story instead of gameplay, they wouldn't sell nearly as well as they do.
Your argument really only applies to RPGs and action/adventure games, which need a decent story (and even then, if gameplay is top notch, it can be overlooked by most). Not saying your opinion is wrong here since story may be more important than gameplay to you, but again, they're just opinions anyways. No right. No wrong.
if you like flicking shit around for an hour and a half with no investment it's the console for you!
Tell me exactly what you're getting from investing your time into other consoles that the Wii doesn't offer? You're wasting your time one way or another. All you get in return is entertainment. So if a console keeps you entertained, it's done its job.
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Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?
If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.
There, I said it.
So having 40+ DS games is bad?
nuts....
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Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?
If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.
There, I said it.
Well damn, at launch I bought six Wii games. :fogetgasp:
Of course I didn't "need" to play them, I just wanted to. So I think I'm safe on a technicality or something. :P
By the by:
*salutes Sarhan*
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Right, but a person who owns a Wii and has played the games first hand has a more valid opinion than you do. Remember Last Man on Earth and how you bitched at me about it when I hadn't even seen the movie? It's the same thing here, except I backed down and you don't want to because you can't stand to lose an argument.
no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?
(if you do that's a more interesting conversation because what a worthless fucking console, please justify that)
the validity of the opinion is quibbling because then everyone would have to buy everything to accurately judge shit. what new knowledge would I gain from owning a Wii that I wouldn't get from outside knowledge and from experiences I've had with it, other than losing money?
I don't have to vote for Ron Paul or George W. Bush to know they are terrible in completely different ways.
That's the thing though. Some people don't care about story lines. Some play games for the gameplay. People tell me Elder Scrolls has an amazing story, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole because the gameplay doesn't appeal to me, regardless of how good the story might be. All of those people who play shooters, fighting games, sports games, party games, music games, etc. don't care about story so they play games with good gameplay, which appeals to them. If Guitar Hero or Smash Bros. or Halo focused on story instead of gameplay, they wouldn't sell nearly as well as they do.
Your argument really only applies to RPGs and action/adventure games, which need a decent story (and even then, if gameplay is top notch, it can be overlooked by most). Not saying your opinion is wrong here since story may be more important than gameplay to you, but again, they're just opinions anyways. No right. No wrong.
which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?
I remember Shigeru Miyamoto said he didn't even keep up with the industry (when someone asked about spherical worlds from Ratchet and Clank and he was like SORRY NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS I DONT LIKE VIDCONS). if that was anyone else, we'd all be on their ass for being hilariously out of date, but instead it's some form of innovation to provide the same thing Pong did years ago.
Tell me exactly what you're getting from investing your time into other consoles that the Wii doesn't offer? You're wasting your time one way or another. All you get in return is entertainment. So if a console keeps you entertained, it's done its job.
yeah, but the point is that some consoles can keep you entertained in MORE ways than the Wii.
it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like
*salutes Sarhan*
is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.
what you get in return for not investing in a console that is essentially commited to pure basic entertainment is the same thing people get for supporting more intellectual films over action ones they might like. while the entertainment factor for both might even be EQUAL, the fact remains that a movie (or game) that has a good emphasis on plot while still remaining a good experience is far rarer than just a nice pick up and play game. your argument of entertainment would make sense if the overwhelming majority of games didn't feature completely worthless plots.
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*is ridiculously gay apparently*
Though I'm not the one making note of this being a war, but take it as you will. (or rather, have already done) You tend to spout off at the mouth and the fact that Sarhan is even putting up with you, if anything, is a testament that he at least respects you enough to even discuss the matter to the lengths you two have gone. Things really could be worse in that people actually just cast your ranting off as nothing more than you "raging against the -pop- machine" or some nonsense like that such as you're alluding to.
In any case, thus far I've merely taken this as you simply having an opinion. If you don't like, then you don't like it and that's just fine, but Sarhan definitely makes a great point that you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole. Is it really that serious? Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.
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no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?
(if you do that's a more interesting conversation because what a worthless fucking console, please justify that)
the validity of the opinion is quibbling because then everyone would have to buy everything to accurately judge shit. what new knowledge would I gain from owning a Wii that I wouldn't get from outside knowledge and from experiences I've had with it, other than losing money?
I don't have to vote for Ron Paul or George W. Bush to know they are terrible in completely different ways.
It's more like "You don't have to own a console to say that you may not like it." I have seen many cases where people THOUGHT they may not like something, but in fact, they may get enjoy it a little bit after all to their surprise. Things DO work that way, so regardless of what you have seen, it could very well be that the wii has something you'd enjoy. Of course it also holds true that you very well may not like it like you say, but the way you judge something is based on your own observations about it. This is why you may not like something, but someone else does. You can make judgements on it based on what you've seen, but you take what you see and then formulate your ideas based on that. If you take a game that is shitty according to general consensus, then whether someone would like that game or not is still for them and them alone to say.
which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?
I remember Shigeru Miyamoto said he didn't even keep up with the industry (when someone asked about spherical worlds from Ratchet and Clank and he was like SORRY NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS I DONT LIKE VIDCONS). if that was anyone else, we'd all be on their ass for being hilariously out of date, but instead it's some form of innovation to provide the same thing Pong did years ago.
Your analogy of the consoles does not matter. It may be a fact that another next gen console would have a larger variety of games, but that does not make it better. The larger variety of games is objective, but saying which is better is purely subjective to one's opinion.
yeah, but the point is that some consoles can keep you entertained in MORE ways than the Wii.
it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like
You can base your assumptions based on the fact that yes they are CAPABLE of providing more entertainment due to it's sheer variety, but as stated earlier it boils down to exactly what one likes to play.
So that means that even though it is capable of it, doesn't mean it will because the consoles are entirely different, which means their libray of games will be different as well.
is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.
what you get in return for not investing in a console that is essentially commited to pure basic entertainment is the same thing people get for supporting more intellectual films over action ones they might like. while the entertainment factor for both might even be EQUAL, the fact remains that a movie (or game) that has a good emphasis on plot while still remaining a good experience is far rarer than just a nice pick up and play game. your argument of entertainment would make sense if the overwhelming majority of games didn't feature completely worthless plots.
The plot thing is devoid of meaning, really. If you find the game enjoyable then that is what matters and that is just that. Whatever one prefers is the same thing that most likely they will play, regardless of:story, plot, graphics, etcetera.
You seem to think that the next gen consoles besides the wii have the same games the wii does, and other games in addition. This obviously isn't the case here. The 360 has it's games while the wii has "wii games" with their own way of controlling it, etcetera. Maybe if the their was a console JUST like the wii with EVERY wii game and everything else similar PLUS additional games, then it would be better. This is because you couldn't really argue on something that has everything the same PLUS more, even though it is still subjective to your opinion.
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*is ridiculously gay apparently*
Though I'm not the one making note of this being a war, but take it as you will. (or rather, have already done) You tend to spout off at the mouth and the fact that Sarhan is even putting up with you, if anything, is a testament that he at least respects you enough to even discuss the matter to the lengths you two have gone. Things really could be worse in that people actually just cast your ranting off as nothing more than you "raging against the -pop- machine" or some nonsense like that such as you're alluding to.
In any case, thus far I've merely taken this as you simply having an opinion. If you don't like, then you don't like it and that's just fine, but Sarhan definitely makes a great point that you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole. Is it really that serious? Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.
kezay everyone knows you are the biggest nintendo fan boy in the world so honestly I will not take anything you take seriously because you are easily the most pathetic person I've ever met on these forums.
kezay if posting just "applauds" is not masturbatory horseshit indicating this is some battle and Sarhan is on yours, what is?
ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.
It's more like "You don't have to own a console to say that you may not like it." I have seen many cases where people THOUGHT they may not like something, but in fact, they may get enjoy it a little bit after all to their surprise. Things DO work that way, so regardless of what you have seen, it could very well be that the wii has something you'd enjoy. Of course it also holds true that you very well may not like it like you say, but the way you judge something is based on your own observations about it. This is why you may not like something, but someone else does. You can make judgements on it based on what you've seen, but you take what you see and then formulate your ideas based on that. If you take a game that is shitty according to general consensus, then whether someone would like that game or not is still for them and them alone to say.
I offer the same exact question: why didn't you buy a PS3? do you own all three consoles? how about the Phantom? or this bootleg DS from China? after all, if you have to own shit to know if it's any good at all, you need to buy everything. saying that OH SOME PEOPLE CHANGE is so incredibly lmao because I've used a Wii and played it extensively because its the only console I have at my apartment you dummies. I haven't bought a single next gen console yet, I just played my roommates's so how come I have reached the conclusion that the 360 is better???
must be magic...
Your analogy of the consoles does not matter. It may be a fact that another next gen console would have a larger variety of games, but that does not make it better. The larger variety of games is objective, but saying which is better is purely subjective to one's opinion.
it does matter you fool. Nintendo has NEVER proved themselves as being the plot centered developers. they take pride in MASS MARKETING entertainment. the Wii was named because it was for mass market appeal. they don't give a shit about anything smart or interesting, just FUN SHIT. this is what their model is. you have severe brain damage if you think it's anything else.
not that Sony or Microsoft have models that are pro-story or anything, but at least they aren't so anti-story as Nintendo has always been.
The plot thing is devoid of meaning, really. If you find the game enjoyable then that is what matters and that is just that. Whatever one prefers is the same thing that most likely they will play, regardless of:story, plot, graphics, etcetera.
the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console. so either admit that the Wii is for swinging around and pointing at shit or actually argue that story and atmosphere and basic plot telling and development has absolutely nothing to do with games and the enjoyment of them because unless you want to prove Zelda is some powerful epic of love and loss you're out of options.
ps: the fact that you enjoy a few games with no plot does not mean that a console specializing in games with no plots is a good idea because this retards everything to board game level.
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here is a simple boiled down point because everyone lacks reading comprehension.
1. the Wii has near zero story based games
2. any medium that hopes to progress depends on becoming more complex and thoughtful instead of less
3. the Wii, by alienating any story based developers, retards gaming, and many many quotes show that they intentionally do this
4. therefore, as anything other than a base means of entertainment, the Wii harms the gaming industry as a whole by making it more about FUN GOOFY TIMES and less about experiences
5. every other console, barring the shitty PS3, has balanced games of entertainment and games of story and there's no excuse for Nintendo to not do the same.
okay there maybe that will help?
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kezay everyone knows you are the biggest nintendo fan boy in the world so honestly I will not take anything you take seriously because you are easily the most pathetic person I've ever met on these forums.
Oh, well boo fucking hoo. That's exactly what I'm talking about - I'm sorry your world is is that much more violated because you have an opinion (zing!) about me. But at least it keeps with the theme of the current ongoing argument eh?
kezay if posting just "applauds" is not masturbatory horseshit indicating this is some battle and Sarhan is on yours, what is?
It certainly isn't that, I can tell you that much. I could have really done much worse and offered some backhanded commentary for good measure; as oppose to offering you the benefit of a doubt after the fact.
ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.
You don't need stories to play games. If the end result you're seeking is entertainment, fun, enjoyment, some value of what you paid for the experience, then what more else do you need? It's just that you have different idea of what constitutes that overall value where Sarhan at least is offering the idea that it doesn't have to be either/or. But I think that's as such because we've established that you are able to have an opinion; and so you have it. The thing is, the same people who can't stand Planet of the Apes or Jackie Chan, aren't necessarily going to attribute those very same tastes to other mediums and vice versa. Yeah, they CAN (and that's really all that this is about) but a fan of the Matrix isn't necessarily going to balk at WiiSports because the two are so far and away very different from one another and the reverse of that is true as well.
I like stories in my games, but I don't need them to enjoy a game if it's genuinely fun on its own merits.
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Oh, well boo fucking hoo. That's exactly what I'm talking about - I'm sorry your world is is that much more violated because you have an opinion (zing!) about me. But at least it keeps with the theme of the current ongoing argument eh?
fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.
doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number. NSider was founded in 2000, which is about as old as GW is.
edit: triply fun fact Kezay is the world's most rabid fanboy and honestly everyone knows this.
how could I suggest he's a complete fanboy who has never proven himself to ever be unbiased..................shame on doop
It certainly isn't that, I can tell you that much. I could have really done much worse and offered some backhanded commentary for good measure; as oppose to offering you the benefit of a doubt after the fact.
You tend to spout off at the mouth
you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole.
Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.
no backhanded comments here at all look how dumb you are.
You don't need stories to play games.
yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.
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I offer the same exact question: why didn't you buy a PS3? do you own all three consoles? how about the Phantom? or this bootleg DS from China? after all, if you have to own shit to know if it's any good at all, you need to buy everything. saying that OH SOME PEOPLE CHANGE is so incredibly lmao because I've used a Wii and played it extensively because its the only console I have at my apartment you dummies. I haven't bought a single next gen console yet, I just played my roommates's so how come I have reached the conclusion that the 360 is better???
must be magic...
I didn't buy a ps3 because it is/was too expensive. For something else, I just think I may not like it, not that I actually don't because I haven't played said console/game/etcetera yet. I will pick up a ps3 before long, until then I just don't have the time for it but the wii and 360 I already have anyhow. I may not buy something because I THINK I won't like it, but if for some reason in the future I play it AND like it, then I will pick the game up. This has happened before to me. Anyways, really, you saying you "know it isn't good" is still subjective either way. While you may be more of a 360 person, fine, but not everyone is.
it does matter you fool. Nintendo has NEVER proved themselves as being the plot centered developers. they take pride in MASS MARKETING entertainment. the Wii was named because it was for mass market appeal. they don't give a shit about anything smart or interesting, just FUN SHIT. this is what their model is. you have severe brain damage if you think it's anything else.
not that Sony or Microsoft have models that are pro-story or anything, but at least they aren't so anti-story as Nintendo has always been.
Ok, so maybe THEY AREN'T too story heavy but interesting is different, because I personally find Nintendo to be rather interesting, but again that is just me. They aren't WORSE because they don't worry about story as much, at least not to me. This is because you and I see worse as two different things, when we judge what worse actually is.
the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console. so either admit that the Wii is for swinging around and pointing at shit or actually argue that story and atmosphere and basic plot telling and development has absolutely nothing to do with games and the enjoyment of them because unless you want to prove Zelda is some powerful epic of love and loss you're out of options.
Wanting a game with a good story is higher standards as far as story itself is concerned, but doesn't matter if you aren't too concerned about the story to begin with. This boils down to what someone wants, not what is better because better is in the mind of the player.
ps: the fact that you enjoy a few games with no plot does not mean that a console specializing in games with no plots is a good idea because this retards everything to board game level.
There is far more to do in a wii than in a board game. It is still a VIDEO GAME nonetheless. You are basically saying that "Console with games that have no plot=suck", but it isn't that simple because the games aren't JUST 360 games ONLY whatever plot it has and/or dumbed down a bit. They are different games in their own right. It wouldn't be fair for me to say "Console with games that have no plot=good idea" because I don't enjoy the games BECAUSE they don't have a plot, that is rather absurd!
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I'm not going to get myself too involved with this back and forth bickering, but I completely agree that Nintendo's apparent hatred of plot-driven games in favor of just base entertainment really limits the console, and is why I never touch my Wii anymore outside of when everyone at the apartment is drunk and want to play some simple mini-game shit.
Hell, the game that's been played the most recently is a console version of a fucking board game.
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@Omcifer: What did you just post because I seriously couldn't make heads or tails of that.
Tell me exactly what you're getting from investing your time into other consoles that the Wii doesn't offer? You're wasting your time one way or another. All you get in return is entertainment. So if a console keeps you entertained, it's done its job.
The main argument against the Wii is that there's absolutely no substance to the thing. You don't need a plot or deep gameplay elements to have fun in a game but GUESS WHAT? Board Games are 1/10 cheaper than the Wii and offer equally deep gameplay for 4-8 more players. Why limit yourself to a machine that boasts TOSS THINGIE AT THINGIE and FLICK YOUR WRIST LIKE A JACKASS on a console built on 10 year old technology when you can actually enjoy yourself on two consoles that have potential to EVOLVE.
The Wii has no lasting value. It may be moderately satisfying now but in a year or two when the current gen becomes old gen people will realize that the PS3 and 360 actually have something new to offer while the Wii is rehashing a new edition of MANIPULATE THE GIZMO but with 2 new microgames. Have you ever stopped and wondered why people keep coming back to the ps2? It's because it
A: There are games
and
B: Sony has established itself as a gamer console.
The Wii was designed for old ladies and people who never even touched a gaming console. Shit, my grandmother plays Wii sports. But the fact of the matter is NON GAMERS DONT BUY GAMES and when the other consoles are putting out new products, the Wii will still be marketing its twitch games. How is a 3rd party developer going to be able to sell SERIOUS SHIT #1 when everyone and their grandmother is purchasing Mario's Picross?
Hell, the game that's been played the most recently is a console version of a fucking board game.
Speaking of which, I read somewhere that the top 10 selling Nintendo Wii Games where half virtual console games and half 1st party titles.
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fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.
doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number.
how could I suggest he's a complete fanboy who has never proven himself to ever be unbiased..................shame on doop
Shame on you indeed. What exactly does that prove? Especially with the first part seeing the highlight of that entry was my becoming an uncle, nothing about the DS AT ALL as far as I remember. But OKAY! (or did I become the uncle of a DS?) But yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Have you really held this grudge from since 2005? (I honestly don't remember the year, but it was a hell of a long time ago when you first decided to be "honest" about your opinions)
By the by, noticing your edited commentary...
Nsider, the version I joined, didn't open until late in 2003. While the community orientation had existed far earlier (before 2000 even) I was never a part of it until November 2003. Granted, nearly 50,000 posts a heck of a lot and I wasn't even within the top 20 posters on the site, but a lot of that resulted from having nearly every board on that forum contributing a pretty relative topic that I not only knew a lot about, but had far more independence in discussing than in the solitary VG discussion forum here on GW - namely because unlike sites such as Nsider (at the time), Neogaf and MCV not much talk about sales data, industry trends, figureheads and other behind the scenes babble was fostered much on GW. I don't mark that as a bad thing of course, but I'm definitely quite a bit interested regarding happenings in the industry as well as among the games I play... I simply had far more posts on Nsider than GW because I had far more option to discuss a wealth of topics whether it involved Nintendo or otherwise.
no backhanded comments here at all look how dumb you are.
Heh, so you did miss it. Either way it wasn't some rah-rah go Sarhan, not Steel as you were quick to emphasize through my masturbatory horseshit. ;)
yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.
That's absolutely absurd in relation to what is being discussed here which isn't surprising seeing as it's exactly in line with what you've been arguing about. You don't need some kind of progressive story to have an enjoyable game beyond Steel's own personal tastes. I'm not sure how much you would consider was involved with story in a game like Smash Bros. or Burnout or something like that, but those are two games that relatively lauded for simply being fun to play. Pointless? Maybe, since there is no real higher calling to these games other than what they are on the surface but the fact that they can be entertaining and in as big a way as they have been certainly speaks volumes on it being legitimate, quality entertainment. Heck, there are people just like you out there who will claim such things and still have their qualms with games that lead in such areas like Metal Gear or Final Fantasy.
It really does take all kinds to create a base for this type of thing and it's really only something that would hold back the medium if people on the whole allow it to. Even if Nintendo are against such things they certainly lead the industry in two generations that spawned quite a few titles with stories that were more than just saving a princess from some cruel fate.
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Hey someone close this thread. It's just abuncha kids arguing now, and I got what I needed from the original post. Thanks a lot to those who contributed.
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yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.
I think you might be wrong here. I don't think a song without drums or guitar can be rock. Maybe it can be missing one, but not both. I mean without either, what have you got? A keyboard and a bass?
Either way you're wrong, though. Intentionally limiting yourself is a great way to get some new and interesting things out there. You force the stuff that remains to make up for the lack of the other parts, and the results can be pretty impressive.
Anyway, I'd have a lot more respect for the stance that story is such a big deal in games if any of these elitists who spout it out could ever come up with a game that actually had a story that was better than, say, the sort of crap you'd find in a pulp fantasy novel. Find me a video game with a story better than, say, the works of Kevin J. Anderson. If we're talking about an honest-to-goodness storytelling medium, and not just another platform for snobs to be bitches towards other people about, that shouldn't be that hard. He's not an amazing author, just good enough to keep a publishing contract. Which isn't really saying much, because so does Christopher Paolini.
Heck, find me a video game with a story better than the works of Joe Quesada (http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=3457.0) and I'll be impressed! I might even consider easing up on you story snobs a bit. Then I can at least say "With work, videogame stories can be as good as superhero comics! I mean, not the good ones. We're not talking comics by Warren Ellis or anything. But still! They can be as good as crappy superhero comics!"
Unless you count Katamari Damacy as an example of a game with great story, in which case I'll concede. But I really doubt you do.
...I'd also like to point out that I recently bought an XBox 360, and by far the games I've played the most are the demos for Geometry Wars and Catan. The only difference between those games and Wii games are that they're not actually on Wii. Yet.
Take that how you will.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_onFRu5LOMI
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I like stories in my games, but I don't need them to enjoy a game if it's genuinely fun on its own merits.
you know, it's very easy to just say this. the problem with the wii, however, is that they actually managed to make a console that damn near systematically destroyed any potential for legitimate creative expression in favor of some mind-numbingly juvenile notion of FUN. really, saying that you do enjoy games with stories in the same post where you defend the wii automatically undermines any genuine importance that you personally place on any legitimately creative endeavor within games. it makes it clear that you can TOLERATE and ENJOY story-telling in games, but do obviously not REQUIRE IT to even some modest extent.
i really do not think it is a stretch to automatically assume that every console ought to have the capacity for FUN and CREATIVE LEGITIMACY. i do not think you can honestly say this about the nintendo wii without outright lying to yourself, as it is clearly a REQUIREMENT, first and foremost, for every game on the console to be fully compatible with the absurd control system. i can PERSONALLY GUARANTEE YOU that it is impossible to take a game/story/concept seriously as you are waving your arms around like a bloody retard. if you've been wondering why there is ABSOLUTE ZERO INTELLIGENCE within any wii game, then you needn't look any further than the controls. hell, i'm not even going to limit this to story-telling, but strategy is virtually impossible with the wii, because strategy is completely incompatible with the WII NUNCHAKU. going even further than that, i have seen nothing to indicate that the wii has graphical capabilities that much greater than the gamecube, so there is always going to be that feeling that WHOA MAN IS THIS 2004????????
don't get me wrong, i like games that are fun. mario galaxy is a very fun game. one of the stupidest fucking things i've ever invested more than an hour in, but it's a fun game. but there comes a time when you realize that YOU AREN'T 8 YEARS OLD and you want at least somewhat more from the system. i think that humanity is at least occasionally mature enough to warrant not being treated like some half-literate child with muscular dystrophy. MAYBE I'M WRONG????????????????
the wii is so stunningly counter-productive to any sort of legitimate creative progress the videogame industry may have been making. i don't really like doing this, but i'm going to have to say FACT on this one. i don't think i'm some outlandish buffoon when i say that there's a lot more to videogames than FUN. the reality behind videogames is that it's a creative process. ignoring any sort of legitimate, perhaps educated notion of creativity for some overwhelmingly childish notion of masturbatory entertainment is just revolting. and the problem now is that the wii is now showing corporations that there needn't be some creative bar when they ask themselves HOW FAR SHOULD WE REACH. just wave your hands around like a fucking retard and the dollars will start rolling in.
GJ GUYS YOU FUCKING BROKE IT. i was really hoping the corporations wouldn't realize that the masses ACTUALLY ARE that stupid, but you blew our cover and the deep, dark secret is out. now they have no reason to treat us with the slightest bit of respect ever again.
WORDS WORDS WORDS, but i genuinely believe these to be significant issues about the wii and the sort of creative precedent they're setting with this utter bullshit.
ps if it's some sort of QUALIFIER to have an opinion about the wii, i want to say that my friend owns a wii and i have logged significant time in more than a dozen games. and fyi, i have found damn near every moment of it profoundly unrewarding.
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Either way you're wrong, though. Intentionally limiting yourself is a great way to get some new and interesting things out there. You force the stuff that remains to make up for the lack of the other parts, and the results can be pretty impressive.
Limiting yourself as a design choice and intentionally removing features are two different ball games. The Wii offers nothing for 3rd party developers. You'll never see Bioshock on the Wii. You'll never see Resident Evil 5 on the Wii. You'll never see any 3rd party game released in the next year on the Wii because it's a piece of crap machine by today's technological standards.
If you have fun with shallow, unfulfillable products like UMBRELLA CHRONICLES and RESIDENT EVIL 4 (YET AGAIN) then just buy a basketball and get some fresh air. Shit, buy a guitar and start practicing. In the time it takes you to learn some frets you'll be a better man than if you had spent money on a product that offers cheap thrills.
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no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?
No I don't, but I never said the PS3 was good/bad or that the Wii is better. What's the point of asking me if I own a PS3?
which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?
Well it seems to be working well for them. Stick to your 360 if the Wii isn't your type of system. Nobody's forcing you to buy/play it. You can have an opinion, but when somebody presents an opinion different from yours and you have to try and prove them wrong, you're the one that's propagating the "console war" you seem to hate so much.
it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like
is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.
I never said you're going against it because it's popular (I don't think anyone did). But like I said above, you're the one who's furthering the argument. By the way, most people like the Wii because it's fun, not because of some made up Nintendo "allegiance" you seem to think they have.
fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.
doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number. NSider was founded in 2000, which is about as old as GW is.
edit: triply fun fact Kezay is the world's most rabid fanboy and honestly everyone knows this.
lol...personal attacks. Typical.
yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.
Do you know how stupid that argument is? You don't need a story to make a good game. That's a fact. You need a story for a good RPG, but not for every genre.
ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.
Dude...games aren't the same as movies. Good movies are like good books. Most movies need a decent story to be worthwhile. Games don't. That's a very shitty argument.
the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console
Millions of people have lower standards than you apparently. Why not just ignore those people whose standards aren't as good as yours instead of fighting with them?
Go cool off and play the 360.
EDIT:
...I'd also like to point out that I recently bought an XBox 360, and by far the games I've played the most are the demos for Geometry Wars and Catan. The only difference between those games and Wii games are that they're not actually on Wii. Yet.
Geometry Wars is already out for the Wii.
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i can PERSONALLY GUARANTEE YOU that it is impossible to take a game/story/concept seriously as you are waving your arms around like a bloody retard.
I can personally guarantee you that if your ability to enjoy life is predicated on the assumption that you're not going to look, sound, or otherwise just come off like a total asshat while going about it, that you're not going to be enjoying life very much.
To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.
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Thanks Hundley for making the post I was half done writing pretty much useless because I'd pretty much be repeating what you said :(
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I can personally guarantee you that if your ability to enjoy life is predicated on the assumption that you're not going to look, sound, or otherwise just come off like a total asshat while going about it, that you're not going to be enjoying life very much.
To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.
except what he was saying has nothing to do with how other people are looking at him or even if there's anyone else in the room with him to begin with???? it is not about being self-conscious, it's about being able to take a narrative seriously when you are acting like a buffoon with motion-sensor controller. it kind of fucks up the experience if you are sitting there watching some story unravel first-hand and then SWING STICK NOW!!!!! pressing a button in games like shenmue is sort of interruptive enough, but adding a highly physical component to it really only compounds the effect.
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Millions of people have lower standards than you apparently.
And 90% of those millions of people are old ladies and parents who considered Bejeweled to be the height of virtual entertainment.
Geometry Wars is already out for the Wii.
After being available on the original Xbox for what... 5 years now?
Do you know how stupid that argument is? You don't need a story to make a good game. That's a fact. You need a story for a good RPG, but not for every genre.
A yet a game without a story shouldn't lack substance like all Wii games. There should be some kind achievement other than THANK YOU SO MUCHA FOR'A PLAYIN' MAH GAME!"
I bet you Shallowtindo fans can tell me what game had that exact quote in it's ending credits sequence.
To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.
If bunching rabbits or collecting starbits for 10 hours is your idea of dignified then keep me out of your world!
This actually makes me want to bring up No More Heroes, a Wii game who's intro specifically states "THIS ISNT A GAME WITH A SERIOUS PLOT SO LET ME FAST FORWARD SO YOU CAN HIT THINGS". After viewing the ridiculously bad intro the main character literally says "Okay whatever play the game now" and you proceed to swing the wiimote in a furious fashion" which cuts a guy's head off and starts the game.
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I can personally guarantee you that if your ability to enjoy life is predicated on the assumption that you're not going to look, sound, or otherwise just come off like a total asshat while going about it, that you're not going to be enjoying life very much.
To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.
HUNDLEY IS AFRAID OF EMBARASSING HIMSELF!!!
YOU GAINED A ZAUBER.
I'm going to reply to the best post here which is shadowtext.............nooo........
Anyway, I'd have a lot more respect for the stance that story is such a big deal in games if any of these elitists who spout it out could ever come up with a game that actually had a story that was better than, say, the sort of crap you'd find in a pulp fantasy novel. Find me a video game with a story better than, say, the works of Kevin J. Anderson. If we're talking about an honest-to-goodness storytelling medium, and not just another platform for snobs to be bitches towards other people about, that shouldn't be that hard. He's not an amazing author, just good enough to keep a publishing contract. Which isn't really saying much, because so does Christopher Paolini.
Heck, find me a video game with a story better than the works of Joe Quesada and I'll be impressed! I might even consider easing up on you story snobs a bit. Then I can at least say "With work, videogame stories can be as good as superhero comics! I mean, not the good ones. We're not talking comics by Warren Ellis or anything. But still! They can be as good as crappy superhero comics!"
Unless you count Katamari Damacy as an example of a game with great story, in which case I'll concede. But I really doubt you do.
I would maybe count something like Katamari honestly but let's skip that.
I think a few games are good. hell, Ultimate Spiderman was a comic game lmaoooo but I'm being a dick.
my point is, pulp fantasy strives to be nothing more than pulp fantasy. if you are OKAY with videogames being nothing more than "pulp" videogames, okay. but I think there is a lot of shit better than that. even fucking Bioshock, which I realized wasn't that great, is better than pulp fantasy. if there is the potential to be better, I think we should USE that potential instead of saying "well, bottom reached."
when the NES came out you know they didn't see more than shitty stories. and yet here we are with a few games with actual character depth!
Hey someone close this thread. It's just abuncha kids arguing now, and I got what I needed from the original post. Thanks a lot to those who contributed.
don't lock the topic, it's actually interesting now.
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except what he was saying has nothing to do with how other people are looking at him or even if there's anyone else in the room with him to begin with???? it is not about being self-conscious, it's about being able to take a narrative seriously when you are acting like a buffoon with motion-sensor controller. it kind of fucks up the experience if you are sitting there watching some story unravel first-hand and then SWING STICK NOW!!!!! pressing a button in games like shenmue is sort of interruptive enough, but adding a highly physical component to it really only compounds the effect.
I could go into a long schpiel about how the whole idea of buffoonery is a social construct and that it does ultimately come down to the expectations forced on us by others, but I'll just concede that I misunderstood his point.
It doesn't make much of a difference, though. You don't have to swing the thing around like a buffoon unless you enjoy it. I mean I realize it helps your points to exagerrate the effect of the "waggle," but if any of you have played any Wii games besides the "active" ones for any amount of time at all, you know that you barely even have to shake the thing to use the motion controls. The only reason to swing it around like a real sword is if you want to.
And that's for all games. Even Wii Sports and the like. The controller almost never checks how far you're swinging, only speeds and angles. A flick of the wrist is more than enough to activate it. With Wii Sports, it's more fun to actually act like you're throwing the bowling ball, but you could do just as well simply twisting your wrist a bit.
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I can personally guarantee you that if your ability to enjoy life is predicated on the assumption that you're not going to look, sound, or otherwise just come off like a total asshat while going about it, that you're not going to be enjoying life very much.
To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.
AWESOME JOB!!!! because yes that entire fucking post was about my own self-respect, not about THE WII HAVING ZERO CREATIVE POTENTIAL
jesus christ are you that fucking stupid? if you would like to interpret that post as ODE TO MY EMBARASSMENT PLAYING THE WII, then go right ahead. i'd like to think that most half-way intelligent people would read that and say HMMMM THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL CONCERN WITH THE WII????
fffffffffffff
stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
what makes it all the more ridiculous is that that sentence wasn't even about MY embarassment but about the fact that there exists no story in the land that you can take seriously with the wii nunchaku in-hand. any valid attempt at doing so will ultimately be A FLUKE and exceptionally hard to reproduce, especially with nintendo's crippling standards of political correctness.
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I would like to point to everyone that in March the Wii is getting Brothers in Amrs: Road to Hill 30, a game that came out on the PS2 in 2005. It's also getting Okami which came out in 2006.
What does this tell you about the future of the Wii?
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I would like to point to everyone that in March the Wii is getting Brothers in Amrs: Road to Hill 30, a game that came out on the PS2 in 2005. It's also getting Okami which came out in 2006.
What does this tell you about the future of the Wii?
WHOA MAN IS THIS 2004????????
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
YOU FUCKIN RETARDS, LET THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO FUCKIN BUY THE FUCKIN NINTENDO WII, BUY THE FUCKIN SYSTEM!
SINCE WHEN DID VIDEO GAMES BECOME SUCH FUCKIN SERIOUS BUSINESS?
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I would like to point to everyone that in March the Wii is getting Brothers in Amrs: Road to Hill 30, a game that came out on the PS2 in 2005. It's also getting Okami which came out in 2006.
What does this tell you about the future of the Wii?
You're a pretty big fan of the PSP, I seem to recall. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that ports of old games are a sign that a system's not viable for new ones or innovation?
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After being available on the original Xbox for what... 5 years now?
Um...okay. Your point is...what? I was just stating that it's out on the Wii. Nothing more.
A yet a game without a story shouldn't lack substance like all Wii games. There should be some kind achievement other than THANK YOU SO MUCHA FOR'A PLAYIN' MAH GAME!"
...you look for a good story in Mario games? What exactly do you look for when you play shooters, platformers, sports games, etc on a console other than the Wii? What do you get from beating them other than a short cutscene and the credits? What do you achieve in the end?
If bunching rabbits or collecting starbits for 10 hours is your idea of dignified then keep me out of your world!
lol...bunching rabbits in SMG was only required in 2 parts of the game and it took about 5 minutes to do (total). Collecting starbits wasn't even necessary since just playing through the game while completing stages would get you enough to unlock whatever stages you needed to. Plus he never said it was dignified. Oh, and can you tell me how playing any game is dignified?
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It's easy to say it because it's genuinely true; barring personal tastes and whatnot which I've been trying to keep as a running theme within my posts thus far. The thing is, the console doesn't systematically destroy anything unless a game that absolutely requires a 14 buttons and cannot sacrifice a one for some kind of intuitive implementation is created. Although a game isn't entirely required to use the Wii remote/ nunchaku, obviously it's encouraged because that is the core controller setup for the console, the thing is however, is that thus far save for "fighters" almost every genre of game that has landed on Wii has been reasonably doable through that controller layout. The lack of more compelling software from other publishers is largely driven by their own hand seeing as Nintendo has at least provided more complex software beyond the likes of "Wii" branded games (Sports, Play, Fit, etc.).
I certainly agree every console is capable of this, I don't want to make it seem as if it's an exclusive thing regarding having a compelling story and basic fun as an either/or type of thing, but that it's obvious both can coexist and will continue to coexist because different people are willing to tolerate it. Now, obviously, there are those who have made a horrible run of things by in fact doing what you said, just making people waggle the controller and that is all there is to it, but as far as the Wii's library is concerned, that isn't all there is to it to every game. Even those like Zelda and Mario Galaxy which have some rather novel uses of motion sensitivity do so mainly as a complement to a more conventional style of play. Others like MP3: C, Godfather, RE4 and such leverage it quite a bit more but didn't really take away from the experience of the former now that you had other actions to contend with or the latter despite having been through them before in some form. Heck, I imagine that if Fire Emblem were created with some form of motion control in mind, it would largely be for what many expected at first anyway, selecting units and directing them, which I don't think is too drastic a change towards the "flailing" side of things when considering how much more FE represents.
Granted, we aren't exactly talking anything Metal Gear or Final Fantasy calibur here, but unless there was something entirely unwieldly with how they designed the game in conjunction with the Wii remote, I can't imagine those games being lessened because you get to control them a different way; unless they tossed in some brain training challenges wild knifing modes during combat or something. If anything, I don't think at all that it's the tech. itself that is keeping games like that off of the system but how publishers are choosing to utilize it despite other taking the risk to do something a bit more "serious" with their development resources.
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I could go into a long schpiel about how the whole idea of buffoonery is a social construct and that it does ultimately come down to the expectations forced on us by others, but I'll just concede that I misunderstood his point.
yeah i felt like you would say exactly that about "heh........ social construct" but i was hoping even you would realize that as long as they are LIVING IN A SOCIETY expecting a person to be able to put out of their mind all thoughts of expectations and perceived ways in which it is acceptable and unacceptable for them to act is absolutely ridiculous (no man has such a powerful will and fierce sense of individuality. think of how difficult it would be to ignore the civilization around you telling you what you're doing is vile and disgusting and, in a stunning act of defiance, of self-engineered morality, force arousal on yourself at the thought of children copulating, and even create such an act in what i could only imagine would be a glorious, artistic expression of frustration with the imposed morality so dominant in our culture. is it really fair of you to expect this of a man??? i shudder to think at what might become of our society of dogmatic apes if such a fearless, indomitable spirit ever shrugged off the chains of social oppression and walked the earth.............)
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AWESOME JOB!!!! because yes that entire fucking post was about my own self-respect, not about THE WII HAVING ZERO CREATIVE POTENTIAL
Actually, the Wii has more creative potential than any other console if you think about it. It has a classic controller set up like other consoles do, plus motion sensing, which the others don't. I agree that this potential hasn't been achieved, but it does have more potential than any of the current next gen. consoles.
And Steel, why did you ignore my post? Come on. Argue with me here. It's what you do.
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yeah i felt like you would say exactly that about "heh........ social construct" but i was hoping even you would realize that as long as they are LIVING IN A SOCIETY expecting a person to be able to put out of their mind all thoughts of expectations and perceived ways in which it is acceptable and unacceptable for them to act is absolutely ridiculous (no man has such a powerful will and fierce sense of individuality. think of how difficult it would be to ignore the civilization around you telling you what you're doing is vile and disgusting and, in a stunning act of defiance, of self-engineered morality, force arousal on yourself at the thought of children copulating, and even create such an act in what i could only imagine would be a glorious, artistic expression of frustration with the imposed morality so dominant in our culture. is it really fair of you to expect this of a man??? i shudder to think at what might become of our society of dogmatic apes if such a fearless, indomitable spirit ever shrugged off the chains of social oppression and walked the earth.............)
Man, you really took personally a line that I only even threw in there because I wanted a chance to use the word "buffoonery." Oooh. I've been able to say it TWICE now!
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i can PERSONALLY GUARANTEE YOU that it is impossible to take a game/story/concept seriously as you are waving your arms around like a bloody retard.
A lot of people really don't care about bodily movements while playing the wii, thus it is very possible for them to enjoy it. Like shadowtext said, you don't have to act like a moron while using the wii. Subtle movements usually do just fine for what is needed. If you feel that it is hard/impossible to take a game seriously because you are moving around, then maybe just grow up?
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ps i actually like the wii a lot steel quit bein a fagget
but yeah it is pretty cool when you have people to play it with as a SOCIAL FACILITATOR i guess i would call it. i would not really play it much alone but i sort of think it is meant to be played socially and, while i agree that it is a pretty narrow concept that's hardly marketable to people who're looking for more serious/individual-centric experiences, i don't necessarily think this makes it an awful, awful console so much as it makes it pretty specific in its use and not really comparable to the other two consoles so much as it is comparable to............. guitar hero or some shit.
also i felt an obligation to throw it in there because what would a topic involving shadowtext be without us reminding you of why we don't take anything you say seriously at all ever
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
YOU FUCKIN RETARDS, LET THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO FUCKIN BUY THE FUCKIN NINTENDO WII, BUY THE FUCKIN SYSTEM!
SINCE WHEN DID VIDEO GAMES BECOME SUCH FUCKIN SERIOUS BUSINESS?
BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW
Welcome to a discussion forum. Circle Jerk forums are this way. (http://www.wiichat.com/)
You're a pretty big fan of the PSP, I seem to recall. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that ports of old games are a sign that a system's not viable for new ones or innovation?
You're talking about handhelds here. The whole point of a handheld is to provide cheap, fun gaming on the go not pave the way for a future brand of entertainment. The current consensus is that the consoles are the future of home entertainment as they've always been since the Atari whatever. How can you advance someone when the hottest item on the market aims to generate revenue from people who still think a video game is something out of Tron?
...you look for a good story in Mario games? What exactly do you look for when you play shooters, platformers, sports games, etc on a console other than the Wii? What do you get from beating them other than a short cutscene and the credits? What do you achieve in the end?
Something other than a cheap thrill. Mario 64 was downright revolutionary. Mario Galaxy looses its appeal the first time you realize you're upside down. Even if you have fun playing it, you should open your eyes and realize that ONLY NINTENDO will make games of this quality. Are you going to trust a single source to provide you with entertainment for the next five years? Did you buy a 250 dollar console + accessories to put your trust in the efforts of a SOLE COMPANY.
I bought my a little after launch date thinking it was cool and that Zelda Twilight Princess would blow my mind but I could have had MORE fun playing TP on the gamecube had I waited a month of instead of swinging the wiimote side to side and jiggling the nuchaku every five seconds.
Oh, and can you tell me how playing any game is dignified?
Playing any other game is just as dignifying as sitting on the toilet reading back issues of Heavy Metal. The difference between that and playing the Wii is that nobody will see you doing the former.
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It doesn't make much of a difference, though. You don't have to swing the thing around like a buffoon unless you enjoy it. I mean I realize it helps your points to exagerrate the effect of the "waggle," but if any of you have played any Wii games besides the "active" ones for any amount of time at all, you know that you barely even have to shake the thing to use the motion controls. The only reason to swing it around like a real sword is if you want to.
And that's for all games. Even Wii Sports and the like. The controller almost never checks how far you're swinging, only speeds and angles. A flick of the wrist is more than enough to activate it. With Wii Sports, it's more fun to actually act like you're throwing the bowling ball, but you could do just as well simply twisting your wrist a bit.
man, i swear to god this is a monty python response
Q: LOOK AT THIS MANNER OF BERSERKERY WAVING YOUR ARMS AROUND LIKE A BLOODY MANIAC
A: Well, you don't wave your arms around THAT much
ok fine! you don't wave your arms around that much! the wii has still shown zero capacity for legitimate creativity, and it's been a year.
SHUT THE FUCK UP
YOU FUCKIN RETARDS, LET THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO FUCKIN BUY THE FUCKIN NINTENDO WII, BUY THE FUCKIN SYSTEM!
SINCE WHEN DID VIDEO GAMES BECOME SUCH FUCKIN SERIOUS BUSINESS?
best post in the thread!! :D
unfortunately guy, lots of people don't love the wii because of it's limited library and pathetically one-dimensional design philosophy. this doesn't bother a lot of people, but there are still evidently a lot of people who are bothered by it.
It's easy to say it because it's genuinely true; barring personal tastes and whatnot which I've been trying to keep as a running theme within my posts thus far. The thing is, the console doesn't systematically destroy anything unless a game that absolutely requires a 14 buttons and cannot sacrifice a one for some kind of intuitive implementation is created. Although a game isn't entirely required to use the Wii remote/ nunchaku, obviously it's encouraged because that is the core controller setup for the console, the thing is however, is that thus far save for "fighters" almost every genre of game that has landed on Wii has been reasonably doable through that controller layout. The lack of more compelling software from other publishers is largely driven by their own hand seeing as Nintendo has at least provided more complex software beyond the likes of "Wii" branded games (Sports, Play, Fit, etc.).
I certainly agree every console is capable of this, I don't want to make it seem as if it's an exclusive thing regarding having a compelling story and basic fun as an either/or type of thing, but that it's obvious both can coexist and will continue to coexist because different people are willing to tolerate it. Now, obviously, there are those who have made a horrible run of things by in fact doing what you said, just making people waggle the controller and that is all there is to it, but as far as the Wii's library is concerned, that isn't all there is to it to every game. Even those like Zelda and Mario Galaxy which have some rather novel uses of motion sensitivity do so mainly as a complement to a more conventional style of play. Others like MP3: C, Godfather, RE4 and such leverage it quite a bit more but didn't really take away from the experience of the former now that you had other actions to contend with or the latter despite having been through them before in some form. Heck, I imagine that if Fire Emblem were created with some form of motion control in mind, it would largely be for what many expected at first anyway, selecting units and directing them, which I don't think is too drastic a change towards the "flailing" side of things when considering how much more FE represents.
Granted, we aren't exactly talking anything Metal Gear or Final Fantasy calibur here, but unless there was something entirely unwieldly with how they designed the game in conjunction with the Wii remote, I can't imagine those games being lessened because you get to control them a different way; unless they tossed in some brain training challenges wild knifing modes during combat or something. If anything, I don't think at all that it's the tech. itself that is keeping games like that off of the system but how publishers are choosing to utilize it despite other taking the risk to do something a bit more "serious" with their development resources.
well i guess it's not inherently the technology as much as it is that nintendo is clearly making every game integrate it too deeply into their system. i would go as far as saying that it feels like a REQUIREMENT by nintendo that all wii developers have SOMETHING WIIMOTE RELATED every minute or two of gameplay. now, under THOSE circumstances, it definitely would be impossible to engage in legitimate story-telling. i really don't think this is an over-estimation either. i mean jesus christ, how fucking important is a damn controller?
sure, REALISTICALLY, you could say most games expressing quality or at least attempted quality in storytelling or advanced visual arts COULD be made for the wii. the problem with the wii is that nintendo seems to require the technology be a fundamental aspect of the game, from damn near every perspective. the wii IS naturally incompatible with storytelling, because it's gimmicky nonsense that can do nothing to propel storytleling, and for a game to be successful in at least TRYING to be of higher intellectual quality than THROW THE THING AT THE THING it would really require the designer to develop a system where the wii controls are there completely to serve the game, not the game there to serve the wii controls.
to be absolutely frank, this seems to be where the problem is, as evidenced by a year of existence and NOTHING but childish nonsense. the games are never allowed the luxury of obtaining the spotlight from OH MY GOD WII CONTROLS THIS IS SO AMAZING I'LL BUY FOUR. there has NEVER, EVER been a point that i have honestly seen SUBSTANCE over NINTENDO GIMMICK in the whole damn year it was out. regardless of how fun the wii is(and the system obviously isn't without some basic entertainment value), this is a devastating problem with both the system and the way nintendo has structured its library.
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Something other than a cheap thrill. Mario 64 was downright revolutionary. Mario Galaxy looses its appeal the first time you realize you're upside down. Even if you have fun playing it, you should open your eyes and realize that ONLY NINTENDO will make games of this quality. Are you going to trust a single source to provide you with entertainment for the next five years? Did you buy a 250 dollar console + accessories to put your trust in the efforts of a SOLE COMPANY.
I actually bought my Wii just for Brawl. So yeah, I'm spending $300 to play one game and if that is the only good game that comes out on the Wii, I'd be satisfied. But guess what? I played other games while waiting for it and I realized that this isn't going to be the case.
Playing any other game is just as dignifying as sitting on the toilet reading back issues of Heavy Metal. The difference between that and playing the Wii is that nobody will see you doing the former.
Right...so what's the difference between a Wii game and a PS3/360 game if they're all just as dignified as taking a shit? Your argument was that playing games on the Wii is undignified. I'm asking you to tell me how playing games on other consoles is.
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Man, you really took personally a line that I only even threw in there because I wanted a chance to use the word "buffoonery." Oooh. I've been able to say it TWICE now!
yeah and he wanted a chance to talk about you drawing cartoon kids touching each other's dicks
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I want to say a few things before this topic gets locked.
First off, I want to agree with Sarhan that a game does not need a good story (or a story at all) to be a good game. Steel mentioned Katamari. No story whatsoever. As someone else said (could have been Steel as well), the majority of games for 8-bit systems didn't have a whole lot of story. They had entertainment value, and that is what makes games good. Sure, story does make a damn good game, but it's not a necessity. With that being the case, the Wii is the greatest system in the world (keep reading). A lot of people have fun playing "Waggle Stick Ultra."
Which brings me to my next point - Sarhan is right again - you do need to experience something to give a fair opinion. I'm not saying Steel's opinion about the Wii is not legitimate - he's probably tried a Wii, probably didn't like it. I don't know for certain - but you shouldn't say that the Wii is mega-crap, it just doesn't appeal to you. I've never read Love in the Time of Cholera or seen American History X or listened to Elliott Smith, so I can't really say one way or the other whether they are good or bad. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who don't like some of those things, but I shouldn't make an opinion about them based on their feelings. Those could all be the end-all of their mediums - or the exact opposite - and I can't really say one way or the other. The same goes for the majority of Wii games. I never played Wii Play or Monster Trux Racing. I don't know if they're amazing or shit. A lot of people like them though. If they didn't, it wouldn't be so damn popular.
(This sort of contradicts my earlier statement of Smash Bros. and NMH being reasons to buy a Wii, but bare with me).
The thing the Wii needs most, and we can all agree on this, is third-party support. And as Hundley keeps saying, there isn't much of a reason for a company to develop a game for a Wii (other than low production costs, which is probably why so many crap games come out for it). To make a game like Bioshock or Metal Gear or Resident Evil you need that new technology, and it just isn't there for Wii. I think if the Wii would have been released 7 years ago as the Gamecube, Nintendo would be in a much better posisition.
And I like to consider myself not a "fanboy" (we had rules against calling people that at one point, right (http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=19827.0)?), but more of a passionate person. I do like my Wii, it could have some potential, but it needs a lot of work to get there.
EDIT: Holy shit 13 new replies as I typed this...
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ok fine! you don't wave your arms around that much! the wii has still shown zero capacity for legitimate creativity, and it's been a year.
Actually, the Wii has more creative potential than any other console if you think about it. It has a classic controller set up like other consoles do, plus motion sensing, which the others don't. I agree that this potential hasn't been achieved, but it does have more potential than any of the current next gen. consoles.
It's possible to make a serious game on the Wii since you aren't required to use the nunchuk/wii-mote combo. They have the classic controller and the GC controller. Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn is a fine example of my point.
However, I do agree with you that the list of games for the Wii is weak compared to other consoles, and it's been annoying me as well. I was hoping SMG would be amazing, but it was much weaker than SM64 in terms of difficulty which turned me off a lot. Hopefully third party developers will start making games on the Wii after seeing how well the console has been selling.
But yeah, I don't have the cash to buy a game every month (nor the time to play them) so if a good game comes out on the Wii every now and again, I'm satisfied. Honestly, I'm not looking forward to much other than FF Crystal Chronicles and SSBB.
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well i guess it's not inherently the technology as much as it is that nintendo is clearly making every game integrate it into their system. i would go as far as saying that it feels like a REQUIREMENT by nintendo that all wii developers have SOMETHING WIIMOTE RELATED every minute or two of gameplay.
Suddenly this picture becomes relevant.
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/wii-pons_mass_destruction1.jpg)
I wouldn't be surprised if BROTHERS IN ARMS SHODDY PS2 PORT comes with an add-on that turns your wiimote into a Thompson SMG or a German potato masher.
XTREME EDIT: In addition to the previous march madness titles, the Wii is also getting Target Terror and House of the Dead 2. You guys can have your Smash Bros. Bawls, I'll be partying like it's 2001!
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Actually, the Wii has more creative potential than any other....
so did communism
but when you get absolute fucking losers like josef stalin and shigeru miyamoto in charge, even the greatest ideas can fail completely
edit: i am apologizing in advance for saying something so hilariously dreadful!!!!
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so did communism
but when you get absolute fucking losers like josef stalin and shigeru miyamoto in charge, even the greatest ideas can fail completely
Good job quoting my post out of context. Maybe if you read/quote the whole thing, you would see that you and I are pretty much on the same page, except you think that it has zero potential and I don't.
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Actually, I don't recall it being a necessity to integrate motion control in order to put the game on Wii. It's probably an ideal choice by publishers to do so because it helps emphasize the differences between games or what makes this particular game on Wii "special" because it controls differently. As I mentioned before, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn actually has no motion control whatsoever and even allows the option for other control types such as the GCN or Classic Controller. There at least a few other third party games that at least offer the option beyond motion control as well; I know Guilty Gear: Accent Core is one of them if I recall correctly.
The thing is, it's not exactly a necessity but no doubt encouraged because the "new way to play" is a big draw for the system. It's definitely something I want to see emphasized even more than we're seeing now because there are some games on Wii that, IMO, controly a heck of a lot better with certain aspects of its motion control implementation than anything I've ever gotten out of an analog stick or two by the same premise.
Regarding storytelling though, even if motion control were required nothing really jumps out and says that a game driven on its story couldn't be created on Wii especially if aspects where controls are concerned are held exclusively from any area where the story might progress just a bit further. There aren't many RPGs out there where the story is being progressed during some integral moment of gameplay, otherwise it would be distracting. Would Wii remote gameplay simply then make things even more distracting because you're actually attempting to perform a parry instead of pressing the "A" button and watching a cutscene unfold? Both actions would yield the same result and you would still get the same flow of action. As mentioned before, you don't have to act like a retard to play Wii games - although it's no fun to sit down and play WiiSports, IMO, I can certainly do that, although I prefer to stand up where it's convenient. But I don't exactly feel the need to act similarly when playing Metroid, Godfather or Bleach or something. (and that last one, Bleach, true wagglefest right there)
But you youself said it all with the last line in your paragraph, it's up to the designer to develop a system where the controls serve the game, not the other way around. Seeing how similar experiences from the likes of S-E and Namco with FF:CC and Tales respectively aren't exactly becoming wagglefests and sacrificing the core of the game as a result, it's definitely doable and if the manufacturer can do it, along with a handful of ambitious third party publishers, there is no reason why any developer couldn't design a game to be more than a wagglefest with a simple rewards scheme.
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I'd like to hear your definition of innovation, Hundley. Since it clearly doesn't involve revitalizing a flagging game market, redefining the way games are perceived, capturing markets that games have historically never been able to get ahold of, or changing at a basic level the way people interact with games. What is this "real innovation" that you hold in such regard?
I mean when you're talking real innovation, do you really just mean something that takes another step down the path that games were already on? Like "Mario 64 was innovative because it provided what would become the template for the nascent 3D-platformer genre" rather than "Wii Sports was innovative because it created an experience that had never really been successfully done before and managed to appeal to people who never thought of themselves as gamers, and make a type of game that had never been successful before (lol, minigames) not only profitable, but well-regarded as well?" Or does the second one not count because it's not your kind of game?
Or is innovation only real innovation when you can feel like you're better than other people because you spotted it sooner than they did? Like it can't be real innovation if just anyone can spot it. What's the point of innovation if the unwashed masses can appeciate it as much as their cultural betters?
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But you youself said it all with the last line in your paragraph, it's up to the designer to develop a system where the controls serve the game, not the other way around. Seeing how similar experiences from the likes of S-E and Namco with FF:CC and Tales respectively aren't exactly becoming wagglefests and sacrificing the core of the game as a result, it's definitely doable and if the manufacturer can do it, along with a handful of ambitious third party publishers, there is no reason why any developer couldn't design a game to be more than a wagglefest with a simple rewards scheme.
YES! EXACTLY And the people who have the money and resources to make a game that DOESN'T work with a convoluted control scheme are much better off having their games on a console that features better hardware. Why strip away the very fundamental purpose of a game on the Wii (i.e. the Wiimote) when I could just make it (and make it BETTER) on any console OTHER than the Wii?
See? The Wii has no value. There's nothing happening for it down the road other than Bully: Schoolyard Edition (this is a real upcoming game by the way). Once the get past Nintendo's AAA titles and the slew of Nick Jr/Hannah Montana titles you'll realize that every developer worth his salt is developing on the PS3 and Xbox 360.
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YES! EXACTLY And the people who have the money and resources to make a game that DOESN'T work with a convoluted control scheme are much better off having their games on a console that features better hardware. Why strip away the very fundamental purpose of a game on the Wii (i.e. the Wiimote) when I could just make it (and make it BETTER) on any console OTHER than the Wii?
...install base?
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...install base?
Which brings us full circle in this argument.
Nintendo is a company that thrives off mass marketing and the development of the cheapest product possible, not intelligent design. Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon will always sell BECAUSE they are Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon.
Hell, their whole "anti-DVD nonconformist we use cartridges while everyone else uses cd's" policies should be reason enough to support this.
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Good job quoting my post out of context. Maybe if you read/quote the whole thing, you would see that you and I are pretty much on the same page, except you think that it has zero potential and I don't.
actually no, we aren't on the same page. i don't believe that wii technology adds anything more to the effectiveness of videogames than, say, the xbox360 does. if i was a pro i'd much, much, MUCH rather have the technical capabilities of xbox360 and the ps3 at my disposal, given how vastly superior the games look and feel. you can compare bioshock to ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING the wii has made or will ever make for an in-depth analysis of this. i don't really see how the wii adds anything more than superficial arcade elements to videogames.
i simply think that something of quality COULD be made with the wii, not that it is some advanced form of game creation.
I'd like to hear your definition of innovation, Hundley. Since it clearly doesn't involve revitalizing a flagging game market, redefining the way games are perceived, capturing markets that games have historically never been able to get ahold of, or changing at a basic level the way people interact with games. What is this "real innovation" that you hold in such regard?
I mean when you're talking real innovation, do you really just mean something that takes another step down the path that games were already on? Like "Mario 64 was innovative because it provided what would become the template for the nascent 3D-platformer genre" rather than "Wii Sports was innovative because it created an experience that had never really been successfully done before and managed to appeal to people who never thought of themselves as gamers, and make a type of game that had never been successful before (lol, minigames) not only profitable, but well-regarded as well?" Or does the second one not count because it's not your kind of game?
Or is innovation only real innovation when you can feel like you're better than other people because you spotted it sooner than they did? Like it can't be real innovation if just anyone can spot it. What's the point of innovation if the unwashed masses can appeciate it as much as their cultural betters?
what's really very funny about this entire post directed towards me is that i never used the word innovation. you even put "real innovation" in quotes, as though i said it, which i DID NOT. i could give you a lecture on when to use quotation marks, but you've already had one real zinger in this thread and i'll elect to not dwell on another.
you want my completely unrelated opinion of videogame innovation? i don't particularly give a shit about "innovation". in fact, i'd go as far as saying that an overwhelming desire to be TECHNICALLY INNOVATIVE very often has hurt the industry more than it's helped it, storytelling definitely included. i'm only interested in game innovation as far as new, interesting stories, worlds, and individuals are explored. often i'll even say that about sheer game interactivity, because i don't have totally unrealistic expectations, and can appreciate a game that i honestly say I'VE NEVER PLAYED THIS INTERACTIVE GAME EXPERIENCE BEFORE. and i wouldn't even call that INNOVATION as much as expecting a modest standard of quality. i have always found videogames a really interesting place to experience a story being told, and i don't think i'm coming totally out of left field for genuinely disliking the wii for placing storytelling, in any real fashion, at the absolute lowest priority level.
i guess your ultimate question here is why i don't find the wii innovative. well, you have to figure that i already fall pretty far behind because game storytelling is non-existent in the wii. even beyond that, however, i really don't see the usefulness of the wii controllers. at all. a gigantic part of this is that it doesn't add to the QUALITY of the games themselves. i've played quite a few wii games, and PAINFULLY LITTLE OF IT feels NEW apart from the fact that i'm playing it with a new peripheral. it's been said before in this thread that most wii games could ABSOLUTELY be played with a standard controller, rather than with the stupid nunchuck. you can add any stupidass peripheral to any damn system you want, and if it doesn't raise the quality of the games themselves, then the peripheral isn't really adding anything to videogames. superficial arcade elements.
everything in wii sports, for example, i have played in various arcades before, and i'm going as far back as the early 90s with that. plus, as far as i'm concerned, i'm not particularly impressed by a game that simulates things that i could honestly go out into reality and physically start doing without much difference. (also the graphics are much better out there)
sure, i'll go that far: the wii is not an innovative system because it does not raise the standard of game quality one damn bit. the games themselves on the wii are no better than they were on the gamecube. i believe they're noticably worse, and i don't feel tied to LOL SYSTEM BIAS because i thought the gamecube was an excellent system.
sorry, i really don't think i'm inventing this purely out of a desire to be ELITIST
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You know what is harder than finding a Wii?
Finding the Guitar Hero 3 bundle for the fucking PS3. I can find it for everything BUT the PS3. It's sold out everywhere. Isn't the PS3 the least popular console? This shit makes no sense to me.
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they probably just didn't stock them dude.
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Ah, I apologize--you said "legitimate creativity" not "real innovation." I don't see the difference in terms of this conversation, but whatever. I admit that I should've been more careful with my quotes if I was going to paraphrase you instead of directly quoting you, but considering how fast the thread was moving at the time, I didn't want to have to track back to your post after all the others had been posted.
ok fine! you don't wave your arms around that much! the wii has still shown zero capacity for legitimate creativity, and it's been a year.
Emphasis mine.
Find/Replace "innovative"/"creative" in previous post; compile; run;
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actually no, we aren't on the same page. i don't believe that wii technology adds anything more to the effectiveness of videogames than, say, the xbox360 does. if i was a pro i'd much, much, MUCH rather have the technical capabilities of xbox360 and the ps3 at my disposal, given how vastly superior the games look and feel. you can compare bioshock to ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING the wii has made or will ever make for an in-depth analysis of this. i don't really see how the wii adds anything more than superficial arcade elements to videogames.
You don't have the best reading comprehension, do you?
Okay...so let's see here...I said we're on the same page except for our different views on Nintendo's creative potential. I believe the controller adds to its creative potential and you do not. Alright, so we got that down.
So where are we on the same page then? Well if you happened to read what I was saying in the post you misquoted, you would have seen that I agree with you about the weak selection of games for the Wii.
Therefore, you and I are on the same page, except that we have different views on the Wii's controllers, their contribution to the creative potential of the console, and the Wii's overall creative potential, which is exactly what I said here:
you and I are pretty much on the same page, except you think that it (the Wii) has zero potential and I don't.
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ps how does that make you on the same page at all?
heh yea you and I are basically on the same page here, except you seem to disagree with hitler's methods whereas I don't think he went far enough *PART AMICABLY*
if you disagree SO COMPLETELY on the basic subject of the argument (merit of the wii as a console) then no, sorry, you are not on the same page.
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also you know there has been a distinct lack of grossly inappropriate hitler/nazi analogies in the videogame forum in the past few years and it saddens me
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YES! EXACTLY And the people who have the money and resources to make a game that DOESN'T work with a convoluted control scheme are much better off having their games on a console that features better hardware. Why strip away the very fundamental purpose of a game on the Wii (i.e. the Wiimote) when I could just make it (and make it BETTER) on any console OTHER than the Wii?
See? The Wii has no value. There's nothing happening for it down the road other than Bully: Schoolyard Edition (this is a real upcoming game by the way). Once the get past Nintendo's AAA titles and the slew of Nick Jr/Hannah Montana titles you'll realize that every developer worth his salt is developing on the PS3 and Xbox 360.
But that's the thing, exactly what games out there wouldn't exactly work with the Wii remote? My experience isn't as extensive as many people here as I only own one of the next gen consoles, but in what I've played, barring differences as a result of the technology gap between Wii and those other systems, there really isn't nothing out there I can point to and say "this couldn't be done on Wii because the controller would hinder it", one, because the game can be adapted to work with the controller (hence Godfather: BHE which used far more buttons in earlier versions than the Wii remote/nunchaku has, but EA reworked the game to run very much the same way while still using that very controller and tossing in some enhancements on top of that, IR control, gesture work). Two, they don't have to rely entirely on the Wii remote, which thus far (and I mentioned earlier on) would not be ideal for fighters even though there are fighters on the system that have manged to work with it as well. There is no need to strip away the Wii remote unless there is a need to, otherwise there are other options available, options that Nintendo AND other developers have utilized in at least a few games that don't rely heavily on motion control or use of the IR sensors.
There certainly is value in developing for Wii but developers need to work with what they have in front of them versus just giving up because they have to contend with a new controller structure. I mean, should EA give up PS3 development because they've yet to nail down their technical issues in developing on that platform versus the 360 despite the games being the exact same? Should Rockstar have given up on the PS3 version of GTA IV because of the issues they've had to contend with during development? The PS3 apparently isn't the easiest platform to develop for, but developers have either released their titles despite technical issues or have reported on working around what bottlenecks are making development more difficult for that console versus the 360. Saying there is no value in development because developers have to contend with a convoluted system would be nothing more than a lazy answer from any developer in which case the 360 might as well be the only and primary SKU that they develop for in the first place considering experience in overcoming such obstacles before PS3/Wii even hit the market. Obviously, there is some legitimate claim to development on Wii if developers continue to sign on which is probably due to its rapidly growing install base, as Shadowtext mentioned.
Which brings us full circle in this argument.
Nintendo is a company that thrives off mass marketing and the development of the cheapest product possible, not intelligent design. Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon will always sell BECAUSE they are Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon.
Hell, their whole "anti-DVD nonconformist we use cartridges while everyone else uses cd's" policies should be reason enough to support this.
I dunno about that, although the Wii isn't much more powerful than the GCN the orientation of the console is certainly quite a bit more involved than the GCN ever was and the implementation of the Wii remote (while a risk) wasn't exactly a shot in the dark either. Nintendo is definitely a profit driven company, but at least with Wii they definitely have the install base and and impending growth potential to support more ambitious projects on the console than what we've seen thus far and what is up and coming. Much like the DS, Wii definitely had a rather slow "warm up" period for many publishers who didn't seem willing to commit until the system caught on fire as it did causing quite a few publishers (like EA, Capcom, Sega, Square Enix, etc.) to re-allocate resources to foster further Wii development. However, provided the projects they're working on and time in which they pledged further support they definitely missed out on a window of opportunity to flourish during a time where Nintendo releases were pretty bare such as Q1 and Q2 of 2007.
But that definitely leaves some period of 2008 and onward for the projects to appear which is why it's not very surprising that most major japanese support for Wii involves projects that won't be seen until spring of this year and throughout 2008 barring delays among other things. The biggest problem for Wii if anything I'd say has a lot to do with western support which still hasn't really been as convincing on Wii save for the largest publishers who can afford a major promotion like a multiplat. release where the Wii version might get some special treatment in development let alone a Wii oriented release all its own.
@ UPRC
Least popular console, but still with access to an insanely popular game and Activision being open about shortages through the holidays didn't help much. With the holiday rush over maybe you'll get lucky one of these days?
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Okay...so let's see here...I said we're on the same page except for our different views on Nintendo's creative potential. I believe the controller adds to its creative potential and you do not. Alright, so we got that down.
So where are we on the same page then? Well if you happened to read what I was saying in the post you misquoted, you would have seen that I agree with you about the weak selection of games for the Wii.
Therefore, you and I are on the same page, except that we have different views on the Wii's controllers, their contribution to the creative potential of the console, and the Wii's overall creative potential, which is exactly what I said here:
dude what the fuck is wrong with you? we have fundamentally opposite views on the fucking wii. if anything, i see this as being REALLY BAD that you dislike the wii library, but seem to be generally oblivious as to why this is the case.
also, anyone who is anticipating crystal chronicles is not "on the same page" as me.
You don't have the best reading comprehension, do you?
funny, the university (http://www.towson.edu/) that game me my degree in english never had a problem with my reading comprehension. maybe you know something they don't??????
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what exactly innovative things has the wii done?
You're still moving up/down/left/right, just with a wrist instead of a thumb. There are games on PC which're breaking boundaries interms of graphics, feel, atmosphere, physics, AI, interaction, characters, level design etc etc, and this is just in the last year regardless of it's history of breaing boundaries. The wii has replaced the word thumb... with the wrist yet the games are (and I use this term again because it is so appropriate) flashgames. Seriously. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/ has more innovation on it than the wii.
(also shadowtext, changing markets isn't innovation. Wii sports did NOTHING new, it may have appealed to non-gamers but that still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't innovative and hasn't brought anything new to games)
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I'm crossing my fingers and am hoping they are just riding the gravy train while it's fast (I mean, it's THEIR premise that it's for casual gamers, which essentially boils down to the Wii *currently* being a fad. "Casual gamers" will lose interest and move on and when that happens Nintendo will either shape up or ship out.) and when it slows down they will make better decisions. I enjoy everything I have on/for it right now, but yes, it definitely could/should be better.
Yeah this post kinda writes into itself but I don't want to bother fixing it.
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funny, the university (http://www.towson.edu/) that game me my degree in english never had a problem with my reading comprehension. maybe you know something they don't??????
I hate having to do this sometimes when political topics come up and I am like "yeah the UN has never done that" and someone says "I'VE INDEPENDENTLY STUDIED THE UN" and then I gotta link to my class I took done by a UN advisor but it is always very frustrating because it's always something like "how do YOU know" which is never good.
also I'm not replying to everything because I have early morning classes and some of us have to drink to sleep so the monsters won't haunt our dreams.
I actually bought my Wii just for Brawl. So yeah, I'm spending $300 to play one game and if that is the only good game that comes out on the Wii, I'd be satisfied.
do you not see that as harmful though? I can elaborate but really? 300 bucks for one game???
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Isn't Rock Band $200? (Yes, it is in Canada). $200 for one game is crazy, too. You might need to elaborate because, really, spending ANY money for solely entertainment purposes can be shown to be a wasteful expenditure. Is it only not wasteful after a certain ratio is met (entertainment value/cost ratio)? If that is the case, and since entertainment value is completely subjective, pointing out that spending $300 for a single game is stupid is just ...I don't know... stupid.
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(also shadowtext, changing markets isn't innovation. Wii sports did NOTHING new, it may have appealed to non-gamers but that still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't innovative and hasn't brought anything new to games)
Except for several million new players.
Do you not see how doing that sort of thing requires you to do something different than the way it's been done? Maybe I don't understand the meaning of the word "innovative," but I thought it was about introducing new ideas, like say the idea that my grandmother could be a gamer.
If Wii Sports brings nothing new to the table, how did it make these people play games? And don't say it was marketing, because I know firsthand that a very sizeable portion of the audience is people who started playing because they saw a family member playing it at Thanksgiving or something. That doesn't happen with most games no matter how well done the branding is.
It's not that opening new markets is innovative, it's that opening new markets is strong evidence that something innovative has taken place at a deeper level to make the product appeal to those who weren't interested before. I don't understand how it's possible to deny that, other than by changing your definition of innovation specifically to exclude that sort of innovation.
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Isn't Rock Band $200? (Yes, it is in Canada). $200 for one game is crazy, too. You might need to elaborate because, really, spending ANY money for solely entertainment purposes can be shown to be a wasteful expenditure. Is it only not wasteful after a certain ratio is met (entertainment value/cost ratio)? If that is the case, and since entertainment value is completely subjective, pointing out that spending $300 for a single game is stupid is just ...I don't know... stupid.
haha, are there really people out there buying Rock Band alone?
I have not heard of anyone who wasn't saying "yeah lets go halvsies or split this" but I guess I had too much faith in fiscal responsibility.
If Wii Sports brings nothing new to the table, how did it make these people play games? And don't say it was marketing, because I know firsthand that a very sizeable portion of the audience is people who started playing because they saw a family member playing it at Thanksgiving or something. That doesn't happen with most games no matter how well done the branding is.
marketing first off MAYBE ITS NOT JUST THANKSGIVING FAMILIES GOSH, cutesy imagery/lack of offensive imagery, incredibly simple looking game play, and the fact that the Wii is like an arcade machine. that's not an innovation it's a repackaging. it's a portable arcade machine and so it has a wider audience.
also marketing was a lot of it, by making a family console Nintendo increased the likelihood people would play their shitty little console.
christ talking to you is like molesting Ben 10.
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what exactly innovative things has the wii done?
You're still moving up/down/left/right, just with a wrist instead of a thumb. There are games on PC which're breaking boundaries interms of graphics, feel, atmosphere, physics, AI, interaction, characters, level design etc etc, and this is just in the last year regardless of it's history of breaing boundaries. The wii has replaced the word thumb... with the wrist yet the games are (and I use this term again because it is so appropriate) flashgames. Seriously. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/ has more innovation on it than the wii.
(also shadowtext, changing markets isn't innovation. Wii sports did NOTHING new, it may have appealed to non-gamers but that still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't innovative and hasn't brought anything new to games)
Actually, you can foster innovation in a marketing strategy, a big example of that is Apple's approach when ushering in and promoting the iPod or even Sony back in the day when the Walkman was king. The Blue Ocean strategy (which has been part of Nintendo's rhetoric since the DS) is aspect of innovation in marketing as well. Although Nintendo's attempt hasn't been the first to reach out to the kind of market it has tapped into, it has definitely been one of the more successful ventures for any console manufacture making strides in that area and managing find to that level market penetration - at least based on what we know at the moment after the system's first full year (and some change) on the market.
In any case, even in regards to the games themselves, if it could be broken down as merely replacing thumb movement it's largely akin (with some examples) to the introduction of more options of input on controllers as gaming consoles have evolved anyway. The introduction of shoulder buttons/triggers, force feedback/ rumble, a second analog stick, a second set of triggers... all of those additions in some way offered at least a few more options in game development even if to a complex degree to the end consumer and have had some impact on game development by simply offering more options. Although I personally wouldn't place it in such basic terms, essentially the Wii's controller offers more options of input as well and to an extent, even the Sixaxis with the PS3. How developers leverage that however is what will determine whether or not that yields more intuitive controls (in some cases, that has already been noted extensively with First Person games on Wii, namely Metroid and MoH: H2) let alone innovation in any particular area.
@ Shadowtext
Indeed. In fact, I'd argue WiiSports is one of the most integral software releases since Super Mario Bros. as far as being a "gateway game" for the console itself; something that gets people talking and speading the appeal of the device by word of mouth, and that's largely among the casual base as I'd imagine the core crowd would already be informed enough to make the decision (or otherwise) on their own.
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dude what the fuck is wrong with you? we have fundamentally opposite views on the fucking wii. if anything, i see this as being REALLY BAD that you dislike the wii library, but seem to be generally oblivious as to why this is the case.
also, anyone who is anticipating crystal chronicles is not "on the same page" as me.
Calm down there, champ. We agree that the Wii has a weak list of games compared to other consoles. This is where we're on the same page. The fact that you think it's really bad that I think so has no relevance whatsoever as to whether we agree or not.
Also, I don't give two shits about what you think is a good game and what isn't. People have different tastes (omg!).
You must not have retained much if you can't read a post and understand the point it's making. You know millions of people get degrees but still don't know shit about what they're doing? You ever been somewhere where you talked to a manager of some kind and thought to yourself, "wow, this guy is a shitty manager." He has a degree too. Does that make him smart? Ever had bad teachers? They have degrees also. People can just coast, do the assigned work without actually retaining much, and finish with a degree. Happens all the time.
if you disagree SO COMPLETELY on the basic subject of the argument (merit of the wii as a console) then no, sorry, you are not on the same page.
Again, we agree that the Wii doesn't have a huge list of good games. We disagree on the merit of the Wii as a console. Therefore, we are on the same page about the list of games (which is what I quoted him as saying in my first post, so I was on the same page with him on everything he said in that post), except for the fact that we disagree on the merit of the Wii as a console...which is pretty much exactly what I said before (twice).
do you not see that as harmful though? I can elaborate but really? 300 bucks for one game???
Again, you seem to care way too much about what other people do/think. To me, that $300 means nothing. Why? First of all, I have the money. Second, since I don't have much time to play games, I won't be spending money on other games like most gamers would (therefore balancing everything out in terms of money spent). Third, Smash Bros. will last me a long ass time. I've been playing Melee since it came out and I still play it once or twice a week. And fourth, the PS3 and 360 by themselves cost more than a Wii and Brawl would, so really, even if I were to buy other games, I'd be ahead of PS3/360 owners financially.
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asadfff hundley is not saying that the Wii has weak games, he's saying the Wii attempts to FOSTER weak games.
also you don't see the problem of purchasing something for one game? like yeah if you have the money, okay (who the fuck goes into debt buying videogames hahaha) but we're talking sound fiscal decisions and I'm sorry, three hundred dollars of your own money, unless you are really well off, for a videogame, does not seem like a great justification for a console.
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Is it only not wasteful after a certain ratio is met (entertainment value/cost ratio)? If that is the case, and since entertainment value is completely subjective, pointing out that spending $300 for a single game is stupid is ... stupid.
I don't see the problem of purchasing something for one game. If the person purchasing it gets the entertainment value from it that he feels that justifies the cost, then it is fine.
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I suppose so but its not a justification for anyone that doesn't jerk off over the game, and the point is that instead of paying a normal price for games, you pay what, seven or eight times more, for a single console, and then argue the console itself is still a good purchase.
even if you want to argue FOR ME IT IS (and really, it's not, and no one here seriously did buy the Wii expecting to play one game only on it or that only one game would ever redeem it), for the vast majority of anyone else it's a terrible idea and also kind of invalidates your opinions on things because you're clearly willing to spend an exorbitant amount of money on one game, which tends to make you look a little like a slobbery fanboy.
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Well... I heard from someone that they won't have a good stock until the summer, and maybe not even then. I'll just wait for mine. Nintendo is dumb though, why not wait until enough are ready to send everywhere before a release?
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marketing first off MAYBE ITS NOT JUST THANKSGIVING FAMILIES GOSH, cutesy imagery/lack of offensive imagery, incredibly simple looking game play, and the fact that the Wii is like an arcade machine. that's not an innovation it's a repackaging. it's a portable arcade machine and so it has a wider audience.
also marketing was a lot of it, by making a family console Nintendo increased the likelihood people would play their shitty little console.
When Disney does it, it's art.
When Nintendo does it, it's shit.
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When Disney does it, it's art.
When Nintendo does it, it's shit.
I have never said anything of the sort. marketing is never art unless you want to be a fuck and talk about movements and Andy Warhol but shut up forever.
ps: the family friendliness of Disney's image nearly drove the company into bankruptcy, until Pixar brought them back from the brink by making jokes that would go over kid's heads but that adults could get and appreciate.
similarly while something like idk Marcus talks about Psychonauts a lot, while that game can be played without appreciating all that subtle mind shit, for someone who isn't a braindead retard/child it's very appreciated.
none of this has anything to do with the point that Nintendo marketing to families is nothing new or innovative thanks for the post EvilDemonCreature.
BUT MARIO EATS A MUSHROOM AND GROWS?????????
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Actually, you can foster innovation in a marketing strategy, a big example of that is Apple's approach when ushering in and promoting the iPod or even Sony back in the day when the Walkman was king. The Blue Ocean strategy (which has been part of Nintendo's rhetoric since the DS) is aspect of innovation in marketing as well. Although Nintendo's attempt hasn't been the first to reach out to the kind of market it has tapped into, it has definitely been one of the more successful ventures for any console manufacture making strides in that area and managing find to that level market penetration - at least based on what we know at the moment after the system's first full year (and some change) on the market.
Marketing is not the wii. There is a difference between a product and how it is marketed. You can't call the Wii (as an entity) innovative because it was marketed differently.
In any case, even in regards to the games themselves, if it could be broken down as merely replacing thumb movement it's largely akin (with some examples) to the introduction of more options of input on controllers as gaming consoles have evolved anyway. The introduction of shoulder buttons/triggers, force feedback/ rumble, a second analog stick, a second set of triggers... all of those additions in some way offered at least a few more options in game development even if to a complex degree to the end consumer and have had some impact on game development by simply offering more options. Although I personally wouldn't place it in such basic terms, essentially the Wii's controller offers more options of input as well and to an extent, even the Sixaxis with the PS3. How developers leverage that however is what will determine whether or not that yields more intuitive controls (in some cases, that has already been noted extensively with First Person games on Wii, namely Metroid and MoH: H2) let alone innovation in any particular area.
Let's single in on the FPS comment since I love FPS games. The wii is point at things with the remote, and move with the nunchuck. Essentially point at things with the G-con and move with the buttoms on the back of the G-con. Essentially point at things with a mouse and move with wasd. The notion of using the wii to slash in fp games is also nothing new. Many arcade games use that notion, many flash games (and annoying flash adds) A. make this topic go way off course and B. take up too much time of
are built around swinging the mouse in a slashing style.
The remote is prettymuch too basic to do anything new (again I need to reference that guy who does crazy things with his wii as proof of what the wii could have been) and when it comes down to it the notion of MOVEMENT has already been done by arcade games, and to the extent used by most wii games by a humble PC mouse.
Well... I heard from someone that they won't have a good stock until the summer, and maybe not even then. I'll just wait for mine. Nintendo is dumb though, why not wait until enough are ready to send everywhere before a release?
Because...
A. The longer a system is not released, the more money they lose and the less market share they have
B. They didn't expect the wii to be so successful
C. they would lose third party interest as less companies would be willing to risk making games on a console which doesn't seem likely to come out.
D. more reasons I can't be bothered to write.
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true innovators (http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=3681.0)
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speaking of disney and their family friendly image
i am still patiently waiting for an uncut dvd of the black cauldron.
unfortunately disney hates their fans so this will never come.
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also you don't see the problem of purchasing something for one game? like yeah if you have the money, okay (who the fuck goes into debt buying videogames hahaha) but we're talking sound fiscal decisions and I'm sorry, three hundred dollars of your own money, unless you are really well off, for a videogame, does not seem like a great justification for a console.
Go into debt? From spending $300? I can make close $300 working one Saturday. Serving at restaurants is good money. I bought my Wii in cash. I paid Brawl off the same way.
I suppose so but its not a justification for anyone that doesn't jerk off over the game, and the point is that instead of paying a normal price for games, you pay what, seven or eight times more, for a single console, and then argue the console itself is still a good purchase.
even if you want to argue FOR ME IT IS (and really, it's not, and no one here seriously did buy the Wii expecting to play one game only on it or that only one game would ever redeem it), for the vast majority of anyone else it's a terrible idea and also kind of invalidates your opinions on things because you're clearly willing to spend an exorbitant amount of money on one game, which tends to make you look a little like a slobbery fanboy.
The Smash series has a huge ass replay value compared to most other games. Multiple single player modes, over 25 characters, a bunch of other shit that you can do. Brawl will improve in every one of those aspects, increasing its replay value even more. Therefore, I can jerk off to that one game for years and not get bored. Smash Bros. Melee came out when I was a freshman in HS. I'm now a junior in college. That one game has brought me entertainment for 7 years and I have no doubt that Brawl will be able to deliver the same. So when you think about it, is it really a bad investment? I have SMG, Metroid, Zack and Wiki, and Zelda to keep me busy if I do happen to get bored of Brawl and any good games that may come out from now on.
And dude, you throw around "fanboy" way too much. First of all, I liked PS2 more than the GC (although only slightly more), and PS1 more than the N64. I've owned a PS/PS2 and an XBox, but the only Nintendo console I've ever owned was the Super Nintendo. I am by no means a "fanboy." Second, even if I was, just because someone happens to like a company doesn't make their opinion less valid than a person who doesn't. That's like me saying your opinion on your favorite band or director doesn't matter just because you like them and their work when I don't. How does that make sense?
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Go into debt? From spending $300? I can make close $300 working one Saturday. Serving at restaurants is good money. I bought my Wii in cash. I paid Brawl off the same way.
ffff my point was that no one does buy a game or a game system unless they CAN afford it, and that it's kind of ridiculous to say WELL I COULD BUY IT ERGO ITS LEGIT.
And dude, you throw around "fanboy" way too much.
Final Smashes are awesome. I hear Captain Falcon grows a third knee when he does his.
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/50675/SSBM-User.PNG)
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/50675/SSBB_3.PNG)
Second, even if I was, just because someone happens to like a company doesn't make their opinion less valid than a person who doesn't. That's like me saying your opinion on your favorite band or director doesn't matter just because you like them and their work when I don't. How does that make sense?
oh I disagree entirely. I also recall you said HEH...YOU'RE INSULTING KEZAY and kind of ignoring the fact that he has 40,000+ posts on a forum that is gw's age, dealing almost exclusively in Nintendo facts (interesting info, the posts I could see were all sales figures). that's more than DS and myself combined. Kezay may act like I'm the crazy one, but you ask anyone who has been around for a year and they will tell you how many times he's posted SALES CHARTS to argue how superior Nintendo is.
you seem to think that being a fan and being a fanboy are somehow the same thing or that I'm implying they are. I have a friend who likes a great deal of Nintendo's work (and for the sake of brevity, I'm going to ignore the fact you compared a corporation to a band, and hope you realize it's ridiculous to ever have loyalty to any corporate entity). he posts on a Nintendo forum, Nintendorks. but I can talk to him about Nintendo's flaws and not be accused of being overly negative of bashing. he agrees that Nintendo has zero focus on storyline and that is a very very bad thing. no qualifying statement of "but they are still the most innovative in marketing and consoles...", it's an acknowledgement of a very crippling flaw, something very few people in this topic are willing to renege on.
the thing is, you can like something and not be a ridiculous tool. my current avatar and sig aren't good examples (even though the avatar is of a singer, identity is not the reason I chose it), but I've had Big L as my avatar before. Grin Tree once posted saying he hated L's stuff because it was overrated and he didn't have the best flow.
if I was like most of you dudes I would have been like YOU IGNORED HIS WONDERFUL WORD PLAY AND ALLUSIONS TO STREET CULTURE. I think instead I called him a dick (lightheartedly) and said I thought his flow was pretty good all things considered and guess what he's IMing RIGHT NOW about more rap stuff because when you like something, your capability to reason, argue, and understand doesn't go out the window.
but it's ridiculous how no one wants to admit that maybe the Nintendo business model isn't innovation or wonderful but in fact kind of terrible mass marketing that is harmful for anyone who wants to view gaming as a medium instead of a social activity.
and that is why I don't listen to a lot of people, because it's clear that they have loyalty to a fucking corporation. guys guess what I bet exactly zero people on Nintendo's board of directors thought the Wii was a great idea because it would influence gaming and instead looked at market research and decided to sacrifice hardware for a gimmick they knew people would buy. this same process occurs at Sony and Microsoft.
fuck this is too many words for something I don't care about.
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Video Gaming is a strange blend of gaming AND a medium. 99% of games do not have stories, for example (like, say, Hockey and Golf and Hide n' Go Seek, for instance), and yet in video games they are expected 80% of the time. You could probably write a thesis on it.
I really don't have a point. I just thought I'd voice this observation.
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SINCE WHEN DID VIDEO GAMES BECOME SUCH FUCKIN SERIOUS BUSINESS?
Since the Game industry became as big/bigger than the movie industry.
In all seriousness, there are some opinions that you just can't change. Some like their Playstation, some their Xbox, some their Wii. Those who are hellbent on the opinionthat their system is more supiror won't change their mind. You might as well go up to a religious dude and tell them their is no God or a not religious person and tell them there is a God. This argument/wannabe debate is nothing more than people trying to make some sort of reasoning without reasoning.
I look at the Xbox titles and I don't see anything that suits me, same with the Playstation titles. I look at the titles for NDS and Wii and I see games I would play.
Is the Wii better than the others? I don't know, probably not. I've seen playstation and it has some insane capabilities. I've seen Xbox and there are a load of playable titles. But I'm just not interested. Some people don't like the happy-kiddie graphics and gameplay that is associated with Nintendo and I can see why. We each see games, systems and capabilities differently.
You can debate on slight information all you want, but nothing is going tip the scales either way for either side. This argument is just for arguments sake. So be it.
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I got the last Wii available at one of my local game stores (there's 3 within 3 miles of my house, and they couldn't be much closer to each other if they were in the same building... 2 of them are anyway :P) when my 360's DVD drive and board fried themselves (again), which obviously let to some people hating me, which is fun :D
After the two and a half weeks it took Microsoft to fix my console (why did you break at Christmas damnit!), I haven't turned it on since, and I may sell it as I know of one computer store (cex.com, which has a place in Leeds city center) which is buying pre-owned units with no games for £180 and selling them for £240...
Combining that with Zelda, Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Marvel: UA, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, a 4Gamers charging stand (matches the Wii with blue lights) and possibly a 1GiB SD Micro card + adapter and it's almost enough for a Mac Mini, and definitely enough for a better PC considering that I can get PC stuff at stock prices :/
I'm not going to say the Wii is awful, but I have to say that the spark that Nintendo's earlier consoles had has faded somewhat, but things haven't been going well between me and Nintendo since the N64 really.
The N64 had obvious failings, but it also had some classic titles such as Goldeneye and OoT (I'm not a big Zelda fan and I hate 007, so those two were obviously made of win).
The Gamecube didn't have to be a bad system, but Nintendo's "we can't mass produce HAL, so we'll do our own thing and pretend we're not competing" attitude did damage things.
I mean, yes, F-Zero GX and Smash Bros. Melee were great, Mario Sunshine was decent and the controller was the best I'd used up until the 360, but it just didn't have as many good games available.
The current generation has drawn me to side with a company I don't usually like, despite their console failing on me to the point where it needed repairing twice.
Microsoft fucked up with the hardware issues, but at least they put their hands up and admitted it was their fault, extending the warranty and refunding any repair costs which would have been covered.
At least Microsoft didn't tell Europe to go fuck themselves because America and Japan are at the center of the universe, and at least they have some decent games out that aren't stupidly easy.
Most of the Wii titles I've played use the motion sensor as a gimmick, rather than as a real alternative to mashing buttons, and compared to the other two consoles' online capabilities, the Wii online features may as well not exist.
I guess that this means I somewhat agree with Hundley, meaning none of this will matter as this is the last night that any human will be alive as I'm sure that's a sign of the apocalypse or something.
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ffff my point was that no one does buy a game or a game system unless they CAN afford it, and that it's kind of ridiculous to say WELL I COULD BUY IT ERGO ITS LEGIT.
Final Smashes are awesome. I hear Captain Falcon grows a third knee when he does his.
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/50675/SSBM-User.PNG)
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/50675/SSBB_3.PNG)
3 things.
1. I never said buying a console for one system is a good idea, nor is it legit. I merely pointed out that it's why I bought it and then you jumped at me for doing so, calling me stupid.
2. You're really stretching it. I'm a fan of Smash Bros. So what? Does that make me a Nintendo fanboy? We're discussing Nintendo here, not one particular title they produced. You attempting to point out that I'm a fan of smash (which I'll gladly admit to) does not further your argument that I'm a Nintendo fanboy (just like when you said "a good game needs a story like a good movie does" didn't help your argument before).
you seem to think that being a fan and being a fanboy are somehow the same thing or that I'm implying they are.
That's exactly what you just implied by quoting my sig.
3. I ignored the fact that he has over 40,000 posts because it has no relevance to the argument. He posts on a forum. Yay! That makes him less credible? You post here more than the average person does per day (and I'm sure with all of your accounts, you easily have more posts than 95% of GW does). It doesn't ruin your credibility. If anything, it enhances it because you know more people here, you know the shit that's posted, and because you take an active role in topics. He may be a fanboy, but fanboys know more than most other people do even if their views are somewhat biased. Either way, what does Kezay have to do with anything here? I'm defending myself, not him.
And one last point before I completely ditch this topic. I never said the Wii is better than any other console. That wasn't my point at all. It is a much better system than people give it credit for, especially those who've played one or two games (one of them probably being wii sports) and then based their judgements off of that, using "waggle" every other word to fit in with the rest of the "Wii sucks but I haven't even really played it" crowd.
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Marketing is not the wii. There is a difference between a product and how it is marketed. You can't call the Wii (as an entity) innovative because it was marketed differently.
That was more in response to your statement that market change isn't innovation. Granted, simply changing markets isn't an innovation, but that isn't exactly what Nintendo did seeing as they're still residing in the same market; they adopted a change in their marketing strategy not unlike the examples mentioned before. I wasn't arguing that its marketing possibly being considered innovative means that the product itself is innovative.
Let's single in on the FPS comment since I love FPS games. The wii is point at things with the remote, and move with the nunchuck. Essentially point at things with the G-con and move with the buttoms on the back of the G-con. Essentially point at things with a mouse and move with wasd. The notion of using the wii to slash in fp games is also nothing new. Many arcade games use that notion, many flash games (and annoying flash adds) A. make this topic go way off course and B. take up too much time of
are built around swinging the mouse in a slashing style.
The remote is prettymuch too basic to do anything new (again I need to reference that guy who does crazy things with his wii as proof of what the wii could have been) and when it comes down to it the notion of MOVEMENT has already been done by arcade games, and to the extent used by most wii games by a humble PC mouse.
The thing is however, you could apply that to pretty much anything, Doom on SNES, the FPS games on the N64 and PS1 and ultimately what came in the generation after that. However, as more options for input were incorporated into these controllers the viability of FPS games on home consoles increased with that and that became a big thing with Wii when its FPS games started coming out. No doubt, the mouse and keyboard will say the primary standard with PC gaming and be the most viable option, but strides made in the console industry that PCs have been working with for years on the whole were marked as big developments within that market.
By the by, I'm not even talking much on the melee attacks side of things as there really aren't enough games that do that in FPS titles on Wii in particular and those that do, don't exactly do them particularly well. Quite a few of the innovative steps taken in the industry weren't exactly of entirely new ideas but of existing ideas that were represented in a more intuitive, sensible way. Innovation isn't exactly invention and there hasn't been much innovation in the industry that didn't have some kind of precedent that either didn't fly or fell into obscurity.
oh I disagree entirely. I also recall you said HEH...YOU'RE INSULTING KEZAY and kind of ignoring the fact that he has 40,000+ posts on a forum that is gw's age, dealing almost exclusively in Nintendo facts (interesting info, the posts I could see were all sales figures). that's more than DS and myself combined. Kezay may act like I'm the crazy one, but you ask anyone who has been around for a year and they will tell you how many times he's posted SALES CHARTS to argue how superior Nintendo is.
Actually, as mentioned before Nsider wasn't the same age as GW. The concept of a Nintendo community through Nintendo has been around before 2000, but the version of Nintendo's Nsider forums I joined didn't open until late in 2003 and weren't all comprised entirely of Nintendo facts and sales information - even though we did discuss such things. Granted, it doesn't exactly help my argument to bump up the years that I was involved with Nintendo's forums, but compared to how much of GW I roamed around during that time (mainly just the RM2k and VG forums) there is definitely something to be said about a community where I spend most of my time in only two areas of the site versus one where I spent quite a bit of time all over the place, at least settling into the boards where I felt most comfortable in. It's far easier to rack up posts on a forum where there is a bit more freedom to discuss things that many on GW would cast aside because you could simply go on the net to find the info or discuss elsewhere. As I noted before, I don't consider that a mark against the community or anyone in it; but I certainly found at least another community where I had free reign to talk a bit more on subjects that didn't exactly fly here, among other things.
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Calm down there, champ. We agree that the Wii has a weak list of games compared to other consoles. This is where we're on the same page. The fact that you think it's really bad that I think so has no relevance whatsoever as to whether we agree or not.
i think you use the phrase "ON THE SAME PAGE" too liberally. agreement on one small singular fact amongst many clear disagreements is NOT on the same page. there needs to be greater coincidence of belief before you can accuse someone of holding similar beliefs. and i feel the word ACCUSE is an accurate term here, given how much disgust i feel at the accusation that my beliefs on the matter are even vaguely similar to the overwhelmingly nauseating beliefs you hold on the matter.
this is particularly amplified by the fact that our point of subtle agreement is about the quality of wii games, yet you are buying a wii game for the new SMASH GAME, whereas i find the smash games to be the absolute low-point of the entire nintendo line of products. as far as *I* am concerned, that completely negates any similarities that belief might have otherwise had.
You must not have retained much if you can't read a post and understand the point it's making.
no, i am fully aware of what you have been saying, but i lack the faculties necessary to relate my belief systems to people such as yourself who posses disgusting, poorly justified belief systems. i honestly have no idea how you have gotten this far in life REQUIRING THIS of people.
You know millions of people get degrees but still don't know shit about what they're doing? You ever been somewhere where you talked to a manager of some kind and thought to yourself, "wow, this guy is a shitty manager." He has a degree too. Does that make him smart? Ever had bad teachers? They have degrees also. People can just coast, do the assigned work without actually retaining much, and finish with a degree. Happens all the time.
you somehow possess this incredible spiritual wisdom which lets you summarize my entire academic experience by a simple instance of my disagreeing with your overestimating the similarities of our belief system. i mean, shit, you seen to know more about me than all of my professors ever have! you even know more about me than i do apparently!!! i am sold jack and i want you to gaze into your crystal ball and tell me my fortune. i will find many more articles of disagreement with you if it means i can gain insight to my future.
i shall cross your palm with silver, gypsy.
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Ever had bad teachers? They have degrees also. People can just coast, do the assigned work without actually retaining much, and finish with a degree. Happens all the time.
Dude have you ever been in college? Because what you are saying is actually the opposite of the truth (unless maybe you are majoring in Communications or something). Getting even a bachelor's degree is actually an enormous amount of work towards the end, especially in programs like English where you have to write enormous amounts of legitimately good material or Music where you have to prove that you have raw technical talent in an instrument (and it takes a lot of practice to be good enough with an instrument to impress a university). This is pretty off topic but you started it!
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You know millions of people get degrees but still don't know shit about what they're doing? You ever been somewhere where you talked to a manager of some kind and thought to yourself, "wow, this guy is a shitty manager." He has a degree too. Does that make him smart? Ever had bad teachers? They have degrees also. People can just coast, do the assigned work without actually retaining much, and finish with a degree. Happens all the time.
wow I missed this insulting piece of shit.
jesus christ what absolute balls you must have.
this isn't a compliment at all fyi you are just all testicular meat.
ps: I summed up the argument in five or six sentences a while back. anyone want to tackle those instead of trying to say GW'S JUST AS BIASED or some other strawmanning piece of shit?
Dude have you ever been in college? Because what you are saying is actually the opposite of the truth (unless maybe you are majoring in Communications or something). Getting even a bachelor's degree is actually an enormous amount of work towards the end, especially in programs like English where you have to write enormous amounts of legitimately good material or Music where you have to prove that you have raw technical talent in an instrument (and it takes a lot of practice to be good enough with an instrument to impress a university). This is pretty off topic but you started it!
I will continue this derail slightly and say that while humanities degrees seem like less work they are actually a huge pain in the ass.
not that it's even worth it which is why I absolutely need law school to get money but seriously I've done engineering and humanities and they are both equally hard with completely different skill sets.
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I have never said anything of the sort. marketing is never art unless you want to be a fuck and talk about movements and Andy Warhol but shut up forever.
ps: the family friendliness of Disney's image nearly drove the company into bankruptcy, until Pixar brought them back from the brink by making jokes that would go over kid's heads but that adults could get and appreciate.
similarly while something like idk Marcus talks about Psychonauts a lot, while that game can be played without appreciating all that subtle mind shit, for someone who isn't a braindead retard/child it's very appreciated.
none of this has anything to do with the point that Nintendo marketing to families is nothing new or innovative thanks for the post EvilDemonCreature.
BUT MARIO EATS A MUSHROOM AND GROWS?????????
Don't you pay attention? Mario stopped growing from mushrooms ever since Mario64 (the 2d games released after 64 don't count). I guess it was too "radical" a concept and wouldn't be received well especially given the gritty detail 3d graphics provide.
And Disney has exactly to do with Nintendo appealing/marketing to families being nothing new or innovative. DISNEY WERE THE ONES TO DO THAT FIRST. Traditionally, when you want to "prove" a concept isn't innovative, you do so by providing an example of the concept being used by someone else beforehand.
Unless you are willing to admit that the biggest reason Nintendo's newest product appeals to families is because the intuitive controls make it easy for anyone new to video games to pick up and enjoy them near-instantly (which I assume is not possible because that would be acknowledging something *gasp* NEW AND INNOVATIVE), then comparing Nintendo to Disney is the most logical thing to do.
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Unless you are willing to admit that the biggest reason Nintendo's newest product appeals to families is because the intuitive controls make it easy for anyone new to video games to pick up and enjoy them near-instantly (which I assume is not possible because that would be acknowledging something *gasp* NEW AND INNOVATIVE), then comparing Nintendo to Disney is the most logical thing to do.
Arcade games did the same thing as Hundley pointed out. You put in a quarter and INSTANT GRATIFICATION that lasts all of half an hour. You don't have to stick a quarter in a Wii.
EDIT: Holy fuck, I just read that Suda BLASTED Nintendo because, at the time he was directing No More Heroes, he didn't realize the Wii was targeted for "Non Gamers". He solely blames the poor sales of NMH in Japan on Nintendo and has swore to never deal with Ninty again if he doesn't have to.
And this is coming from Japan.
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Holy fuck, I just read that Suda BLASTED Nintendo because, at the time he was directing No More Heroes, he didn't realize the Wii was targeted for "Non Gamers". He solely blames the poor sales of NMH in Japan on Nintendo and has swore to never deal with Ninty again if he doesn't have to.
doesn't surprise me. producers that have been about "experiences", like Square, Kojima, whoever, tend to dislike Nintendo's customer base.
also yeah what Marcus said. Nintendo made arcade machines in the home, and made them very family friendly (your typical arcade game usually looking very violent like the Time Crisis series or too complex like DDR). this isn't an innovation, it's just a remarketing of an old image.
but like Hundley said earlier who gives a fuck about innovation when no one has even gotten a character with more than two layers of depth together (BUT KEFKA...SO DIABOLICAL).
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doesn't surprise me. producers that have been about "experiences", like Square, Kojima, whoever, tend to dislike Nintendo's customer base.
also yeah what Marcus said. Nintendo made arcade machines in the home, and made them very family friendly (your typical arcade game usually looking very violent like the Time Crisis series or too complex like DDR). this isn't an innovation, it's just a remarketing of an old image.
but like Hundley said earlier who gives a fuck about innovation when no one has even gotten a character with more than two layers of depth together (BUT KEFKA...SO DIABOLICAL).
Heh, I remember when "experiences" was all it took for a peice of entertainment to appeal to audiences of any type.
I wonder why that isn't true anymore?
(my guess is that "gamers" have lower expectations when it comes to what constitutes as one)
But I don't remember Time-Crisis being out when Nintendo brought acrade gaming home though. I mean, if that's the case, then how did the NES do so well with such shitty graphics?
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substitute "time crisis" with "dragon's lair" or XEVIOUS or whatever crappy games people played in the 80s. Why spend a quarter on galaga when you could just buy the home console edition and play it forever? Nintendo wasn't the first to do this but they were the first to create the hardware to actually handle it (for example, Atari's arcade ports like Pacman were HORRENDOUS). The market back then was young but as things advanced, Nintendo was staunch in remaining the same. "Everyone else using CD's which allow super cool FMV's and shit? Fuck that, we're Nintendo and we believe in inferior cartridges! Whoah, video games becoming more cinematic and featuring voice acting and stuff? Screw that, we'll try telling a cool story through text and animal sound effects because we're avant-garde like that! Hey, home consoles being able to play DVD's? PFFFFFFFFFF that's not the future! We'll create little microdiscs for the sole purpose of pissing off developers!"
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Arcade games did the same thing as Hundley pointed out. You put in a quarter and INSTANT GRATIFICATION that lasts all of half an hour. You don't have to stick a quarter in a Wii.
EDIT: Holy fuck, I just read that Suda BLASTED Nintendo because, at the time he was directing No More Heroes, he didn't realize the Wii was targeted for "Non Gamers". He solely blames the poor sales of NMH in Japan on Nintendo and has swore to never deal with Ninty again if he doesn't have to.
And this is coming from Japan.
He did say as much about Wii's demographic at the moment but as far as I know has no problem dealing with Nintendo on future projects. There is already one project currently in development that was announced quite some time ago along with pushing to create a sequel to No More Heroes. He's also involved with creating a Nintendo DS adaptation of "With Flowers, Sun and Rain."
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substitute "time crisis" with "dragon's lair" or XEVIOUS or whatever crappy games people played in the 80s. Why spend a quarter on galaga when you could just buy the home console edition and play it forever? Nintendo wasn't the first to do this but they were the first to create the hardware to actually handle it (for example, Atari's arcade ports like Pacman were HORRENDOUS). The market back then was young but as things advanced, Nintendo was staunch in remaining the same. "Everyone else using CD's which allow super cool FMV's and shit? Fuck that, we're Nintendo and we believe in inferior cartridges! Whoah, video games becoming more cinematic and featuring voice acting and stuff? Screw that, we'll try telling a cool story through text and animal sound effects because we're avant-garde like that! Hey, home consoles being able to play DVD's? PFFFFFFFFFF that's not the future! We'll create little microdiscs for the sole purpose of pissing off developers!"
Well yeah, I did know this. I was just saying that to point out how inept his example was, and how it was friggin impossible to make a game look "violent and/or gritty" with 1980's arcade technology.
I am well aware of Nintendo's shortsighted and conservative business approach. I'm just trying to make a point about how making a game appeal to a more mature and "extreme" demographic has no bearing on how entertaining or "good" the game is, and I'll even go so far as to claim that if you look past the bias towards what appeals to your own particular "target demographic", the other consoles have pretty much the same crippling lack of "titles that aren't shit" as the wii.
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I was under the impression that the reason Nintendo stuck with cartridges was because of different priorities in terms of the technology's performance than the other manufacturers. Catridges are a lot faster than discs, especially back then, and I had thought they stuck with cartridges because they thought fast loadtimes were more important than having enough space for FMVs (seeing as at the time, FMVs were about the only thing that would make games too big for a cartridge). Which I totally agree with, because I've considered FMVs the bane of the industry since....basically the moment I got over the initial impact of Final Fantasy VII and realized how much they damaged the experience of playing a video game.
So yeah, I never saw it as "being stuck in the past." I saw it as being unenthused by the advantages of CDs in light of their disadvantages. Although I realize that part of it was also so they could maintain a proprietary format so that publishers would have to buy media through Nintendo, too, which I totally don't support. But it's not like that's changed much since then. There's still no free and open and 100% legal way for a publisher (or even just Joe Q. Homebrew) to put a game on the console without going through the companies that make them.
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Which I totally agree with, because I've considered FMVs the bane of the industry since....basically the moment I got over the initial impact of Final Fantasy VII and realized how much they damaged the experience of playing a video game.
While I'm not a fan of FFVII it basically revolutionized VidCons from the base, substance less games into something that actually had a modicum of depth. Sure you got genres that remain arcadey for the sole purpose of being arcadey like SHMUPS and stuff but the CD revolution changed the whole "games are for kids" vibe that most people got and made it into an actual form of ENTERTAINMENT. If games were still burned on cartridges I guarantee the market wouldn't be as MASSIVE as the movie industry.
Shoot, I think the video game market has almost surpassed the movie industry.
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All arguments about bias boil down to "Why isn't your bias the same as mine?"
This thread has gotten wayyyy off topic.
Here's how I got my Wii:
-saved up a shitload of Airmiles
-went to Airmiles.ca and cashed them in for a Wii
Other options that I've heard people have done:
-go to more unlikely places to find a Wii, such as Costco or HMV
-ask the clerks at electronics stores when they get their general merchandise shipments delivered and show up bright and early the next morning in case they got Wiis.
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In the Wii's defense I will say that it is capable of great story filled games. I was playing No More Heroes and you get cell phone calls so you put the wiimote up to your ear and listen through it like a cell phone. It has nothing to do with gameplay but for a split second I felt immersed in the game's world... before I returned to the generic fights.
The Wiimote CAN work on an interactive adventure game like Shenmue where you manipulate objects on a detailed level...
...BUT NO GAME SHOWS SIGNS OF DOING THIS. It's wasted effort JUST LIKE the Nintendo DS where the second screen is used entirely for mini-maps and life counters. Red Steel tried to do this but the core gameplay aspect failed. Wario Ware utilized some neat features but that game was the epitome of arcade-like games. After the SNES, Nintendo made systems that only Nintendo could develop for. Very, very, very, very, few developers other than Nintendo have made games that actually tap the power of their systems.
Nintendo can't rely on their cash cow franchises to carry them forever.
I take that back; as long as Pokemon exists Nintendo is guaranteed to stay in the market.
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In the Wii's defense I will say that it is capable of great story filled games. I was playing No More Heroes and you get cell phone calls so you put the wiimote up to your ear and listen through it like a cell phone. It has nothing to do with gameplay but for a split second I felt immersed in the game's world... before I returned to the generic fights.
The Wiimote CAN work on an interactive adventure game like Shenmue where you manipulate objects on a detailed level...
...BUT NO GAME SHOWS SIGNS OF DOING THIS. It's wasted effort JUST LIKE the Nintendo DS where the second screen is used entirely for mini-maps and life counters. Red Steel tried to do this but the core gameplay aspect failed. Wario Ware utilized some neat features but that game was the epitome of arcade-like games. After the SNES, Nintendo made systems that only Nintendo could develop for. Very, very, very, very, few developers other than Nintendo have made games that actually tap the power of their systems.
Nintendo can't rely on their cash cow franchises to carry them forever.
I take that back; as long as Pokemon exists Nintendo is guaranteed to stay in the market.
The way I see it, it's a new medium and game-developers are morons. They aren't going to work with something/refine it unless it's been done before, and proved effective/popular. If we are lucky, then people will get the point to releasing games of class that utilize theese features properly in another year or two. (and that in itself is a shame, but more a problem with the industry as a whole)
And I thank my lucky stars Nintendo has that "blank check" to keep the cash flowing until then.
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I said this before Wii came out and I still believe it. The only thing Wii has going on is the whole control thing and it will get old in a year or two. In fact, it has already gotten kinda old because no one does anything good with it. I can't say playing with Wii is A NEW DIFFERENT KIND OF EXPERIENCE because it's not. Nintendo is pretty much the only company which even develops decent games for Wii and their games are the same stuff we have been getting for years already. Mario Galaxy is a great game but Wii controller doesn't make much of a difference. It has a few cool things going on but I dare to say Mario Galaxy would be just as good on Gamecube. It's still very similar to other Mario games and same applies to Zelda and Metroid. They are all great games but the controls are not creative or innovative in any way. The only game which has actually shown some potential is Red Steel but it sucks and the controls are horrible. Wii has been out for over a year already and I can't say wiimote is that great at all. It doesn't feel new or innovative and the fact that developers have no clue how to make use of it doesn't help.
Wii isn't revolutionary. Wiimote is little more than a gimmick and it's already getting old. Developers have no clue how to use it well and there is a serious lack of good third party developers and games. The biggest problem is that Wii is really outdated and while it can offer some SOCIAL FUN and has a few entertaining games which are a lot of fun, the fact that it's lagging so much behind in the technical department is seriously alarming. Better technology doesn't just mean better graphics, it means better everything. Wii is selling so much exactly for the reasons stated already, it's cheap and it appeals to people who might not be that interested in videogames to begin with. And I think Marcus is right, Wii is capable of of having great stories but the problem is NO ONE CARES. Developers know that the userbase didn't buy Wii to get games with substance and that's why other consoles will get those games. I think it's pretty accurate to say Wii is CHEAP FUN and it appeals to people. I don't hate Wii and I don't really regret buying it because it was pretty cheap and I know it's getting good games every now and then. However, I think people will get tired of it eventually and assuming this generation lasts 6-7 years, Wii will lose it appeal halfway through. As far as technology goes, PS3 and Xbox 360 are simply much superior. PS3 will definitely start selling a lot more once games like FF13 and MGS4 start coming out and its price drops, and Xbox 360 already has a better library of games than PS3 and Wii combined.
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Yeah, the appeal of 360 and PS3 are starting to grow on me (the PS3 in more of a fungus kind of way).
From a gamer's point of view, I think the 360 is winning this round of the console "wars".
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(http://www.sfu.ca/~kentona/post911/consolechart.jpg)
This solves everyone's problem.
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see the thing is that I work at a Target in the back room and every employee knows when they are getting Wiis in stock and either they buy them for other people or they tell there friends when they go on sale. On of the things that they do now is put them on sale in the afternoon so that people aren't camping out for the day. Its alot harder to know when if its mid afternoon. so your chances are better going at 12 to look.
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@ gbone
Nice chart, but there's no option for if I like videogames but my PC is crap for any serious gaming. ;_;
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Wiis suck. The games are a bunch of mini games. You just sit there waving your wii stick thing around, and letting it accidently slip at your hand and hitting the wall and braking in two. Seriously. PS2/3 OWN THE WORLDD PWWWNNAGEE!!
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Wiis suck. The games are a bunch of mini games. You just sit there waving your wii stick thing around, and letting it accidently slip at your hand and hitting the wall and braking in two. Seriously. PS2/3 OWN THE WORLDD PWWWNNAGEE!!
hahahahahahahhahhahahhahhahahhahaha.
lame. (see above chart).
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Wiis suck. The games are a bunch of mini games. You just sit there waving your wii stick thing around, and letting it accidently slip at your hand and hitting the wall and braking in two. Seriously. PS2/3 OWN THE WORLDD PWWWNNAGEE!!
B...b...but...the wriststraps! :fogetgasp:
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B...b...but...the wriststraps! :fogetgasp:
A...and the little plastic... Wii-mote jackets Nintendo supplies you with! :fogetgasp:
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Upon going to the mall at closing time, I had time to step inside a EBGAMES. Good thing I did, cause I found a wii.
Yay.
Thank you for advice and info. Even though my sucess was based on dumb luck.
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Even though my sucess was based on dumb luck.
In many cases, that seems to be the only way most will find a Wii. (generally speaking, I suppose)
Either way, congrats and all that.
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Where all your arguments fail, is...it's your opinion.
I'm buying the Wii, because I have always loved Nintendo games. I dont care if not many games are coming out soon, because I will have Mario Galaxy, and Brawl to play. PLUS, I'll just download some classic games.
Now, this thread was made for finding a Wii, and I think that i'm pretty close to getting one now. Thank you for your input!
The bolded is exactly what I thought before getting a Wii. Drop those ideas, now, before it's too late.
I was on the Wii hype-train since the motion sensor shit and the idea of playing Zelda by swinging the remote as your sword were announced, but couldn't find one until this past November. Guess where it is? Gone. Know why? I'll explain.
I bought:
The Console (Wii Sports, Controller, Nunchuk, etc. Paid $350 + ridiculous $50 for shipping from Maryland to Pennsylvania)
The Classic Controller
An Extra Remote and Nunchuk
Twilight Princess
Galaxy
Super Paper Mario
Corruption
Battalion Wars II
Resident Evil 4
Rechargable Batteries for the Remotes
Paper Mario
Super Mario 64
Ocarina of Time
Wave Race 64
Yoshi's Story
Mario Kart 64
Star Fox 64
Luigi's Mansion
Super Mario Sunshine
Pikmin
Megaman X Collection
Gamecube Controller
Gamecube Memory Card
I played through Mansion, Sunshine, Pikmin, Paper Mario, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Corruption, BWII, and Resi4.
Twilight Princess seems like an incredibly hyped up sub-par Zelda game. The remote swinging can be done via the quickest jerk motion and he swings the sword. Between the nunchuk being the nunchuk and the remote being a huge fucking unrealistic gimmick, I said fuck this after the Forest Temple. I'd highly prefer the Gamecube Controller over this garbage when playing a Zelda game.
Super Mario Galaxy is IMO worse than Sunshine. The gravity in certain areas and the extreme linearness/easiness that is Galaxy are complete turn offs. Boss battles are yet again for five year olds (quite typical of Mario). Movement is clunky and the Wii Remote basically has no function outside of menus and collecting the star pieces of shit. Not to mention, it takes maybe a couple minutes to navigate through a course and get a star. How much gameplay is ACTUALLY there if it only takes you a few minutes to get each of the 120 stars? Why would I continue on to play as Luigi after getting all 120 stars as Mario? Didn't the gameplay get repetitive enough by now? Yet again, another situation where any player with common sense would say, "Give me my regular controller back!"
I played up through the second world of Super Paper Mario. Not only did they rape the ONLY RPG to ever hit Nintendo consoles consistently, but they turned it into an even more repetitive Super Mario Bros. clone. Aren't there enough of those already? Can't I get my amazing RPG experience back over the nonsense that is "Hey, change to 3D mode when it's obvious and you'll get through!" Guess not.
Virtual Console games don't last at all. You won't find more than maybe two or three games on the VC PERIOD that have any amount of gameplay to them (SM64, Paper Mario 64, OoT) and you have to wait until it's convienient for Nintendo to release something other than janky Genesis games like "Cybernator." What the fuck is "Cybernator"? Not to mention, if I want emulation, I can go get any of the games on their list PLUS whatever they don't have and run them on my PC for free. Why again, is the VC good, let alone worth it?
On top of all this bullshit that I've already explained, the only other games are generic compilations of mini-games or plain movie games, with the occasional decent first party game (Brawl, Kart), but those are released once in a blue moon and I can honestly and confidently say that anything else that's released that is, holy shit, not a movie game or mini-game compilation, is either based on some random Disney shit OR is a port from PS2 with supposed "additional content."
Wii Sports is the only game that I actually went back to and played, because it's realistic and is enjoyable even while by yourself. I can't say the same for anything else out for the Wii right now.
I loved Nintendo. NES, SNES, and 64 were amazing. Gamecube took them down slightly, and even though the Wii is making them financially fit atm, I can honestly say they're taking yet another step in the wrong direction, as far as software is concerned.
I got rid of my Wii because it has no future as far as GOOD third party support and/or decent software goes. Sorry to break it to you.
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K thanks for the info.
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Well, after searching for days by physically going to stores and always checking online venues I have been constantly disappointed. I just managed to find a place online that has the Wii in stock, so I bought it. (TheSource.ca).
Anyway, it kind of feels like extortion since in the online bundle they force you to buy a Nyko charging dock (which I'm ok with since I hate batteries and was probably going to get one anyway) and 3 year warranty (at an outrageous price). The total came to $406.79 CAD - which is a little higher than I would like, but I'm going to justify this by SSBB and hopefully I'll break the console a few times to make the most out of the warranty.
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I have to say I am quite enjoying my Wii. SMG is pretty fun, and I regularily play SMB3 again. I never bothered with the Gamecube, so I am enjoying a lot of GC titles like SSB Melee and Double Dash for the first time. I am also looking forward playing to Rock Band for the Wii (which has finally been confirmed), SSB Brawl, the new Mario Kart, Dragon Quest Swords, and Kirby Wii.
Also, Cybernator was a pretty good game, though not as good as Metal Warriors.
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I am also looking forward playing to Rock Band for the Wii
Look out it might have monoraul sound.
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Look out it might have monoraul sound.
Maybe if EA were in charge of Rock Band. I'd be more worried that it might not have DLC.
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I have NO idea what you are talking about... monoraul?
I hope there's DLC, though.
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The never ship that shit! Yet Sony manages to ship out 40 of those things a month (just talking about my store)!
Can anyone explain?
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The never ship that shit! Yet Sony manages to ship out 40 of those things a month (just talking about my store)!
Can anyone explain?
Allocation is the likely issue. I know this past month it has been suggestion that a lot of stock was allocated to Japan to help support the launches of WiiFit and Smash Bros the past few weeks/month or whatever.
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There are people in my county that follow the fucking UPS trucks to the stores and purchase every unit as soon as they hit the shelves... more than likely it'll end up on Ebay at a crazy price. If I ever encounter one of these fuckers, they're getting a swift kick to the balls from me.
The best place to buy the Wii is Sears if you live in the states. Sears lets you place an order for an item online and then pick it up from the store (if they have it). What you do is call your local Sears and ask if they have a Wii in stock. If they do, go to the Sears website and search for the store in your area. Buy the item online and it prints off a receipt at the store and the object is taken off the shelf and set to the side. Print out your receipt and head to the store, prop it on the counter, pick up your Wii.
All you have to do is call every day and ask. Most stores receive shipments on Monday nights and Friday mornings. Just call twice a day and I guarantee you'll get one eventually.
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Maybe if EA were in charge of Rock Band. I'd be more worried that it might not have DLC.
But . . . EA is in charge of Rock Band.
Kentona: Mono sound. As in not stereo. Guitar Hero 3 for Wii had only mono sound which was pretty hillarious considering it's the #1 music game.
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I have still never seen a Wii in a store. My parents managed to somehow get one for my brother last year, not sure how though.
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Strange thing happened at a party my wife and I hosted this past Sunday.
The group of people we were with would look at you funny if you mentioned "Final Fanstasy", we all played Wii Sports and Wii Play and had a lot of fun. But even that wound down around 1am and people were kinda getting ready to leave. For a lark, I started up Super Mario Bros. 3 on the Wii - amazingly, everyone surrounded the TV and we all took turns playing through the game. Everyone stayed up playing until 4am, and had a blast.
I just found it astonishing that SMB3 still has that much appeal.
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I have NO idea what you are talking about... monoraul?
I hope there's DLC, though.
guitar hero iii for wii shipped with a lot of copies not having stereo sound.
stereo means right and left, which is pretty ESSENTIAL to appreciate any music that isn't lo fi as fuck.
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monoraul, though? I have never heard the term before now. Using Google "Define monoraul" got me: "Did you mean: define monroe?". In wikipedia I got "There is no page titled "Monoraul"."
I know what stereo means. I also know what Trystero means.
Does GH3 for the wii now have stereo sound?
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monaural
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monoraul, though? I have never heard the term before now. Using Google "Define monoraul" got me: "Did you mean: define monroe?". In wikipedia I got "There is no page titled "Monoraul"."
I know what stereo means. I also know what Trystero means.
Does GH3 for the wii now have stereo sound?
Some of the discs always did. Activision (which is what I should've said when I said "EA" up above) replaced and/or is in the process of replacing the discs for people who contact them and send them the mono discs, and supposedly all the ones on store shelves these days should be stereo. The fact that they made the mistake in the first place is ridiculous, though, especially given the doubt a lot of fans already had in whether or not they'd be able to handle a beloved franchise since the creators left for greener pastures.