Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Shadow Gunner on January 31, 2008, 10:16:38 pm
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Frank Miller has written some of the greatest comics, with such serious and badass style. He's also inspired a couple movies as well. Okay, maybe that's just opinion, but it's what I think.
As far as I know (I love his comics, I do not research him), he has written Sin City, 300, and his own Batman comic. Sin City and 300 can both be recognized as major motion pictures.
Does anyone else like his writing? Or does anyone know some other stuff he's written?
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Frank Miller is a talentless hack whose comics sell because they are "edgy". By edgy I mean a childish OTT fixation on violence and prostitutes, with no conscideration to plot, and more focus on prostitutes. His The Dark Knight Returns is something of a mystery because it is such a bad and randomly written comic that it has to be on purpose (I am aware it's something of satire on the ridiculousness of comics, just imo it gets too far up it's own ass to really bring that statement home). Somehow the sequel is EVEN WORSE (from what I've read, Miller deliberately made it the worst comic series ever written to prove that the critics just blindly lapped him up regardless of his work's quality. I kinda agree with that because of the distinct lack of prostitutes in it, but then I'm aware that he is a bad writer so he could just be making excuses). Batman Year one was pretty bad, what with Catwoman being a hooker and all. Sin City kinda started ok, but then it quickly reveals to be the same thing over and over again. ALLSTAR Batman and Robin is SIN CITY. Seriously Batman isn't Batman, every cop is a crooked, murdering pedo and Batman talks to himself like he's in some cheesy 80's film noire clone.
I have not read Ronin or 300 but conscidering how his comics are MEN FIGHTING ROAR and all the female characters are whores (seriously that got old after Batman year one! yet he's still doing it) (and conscidering how 300 is amoung the worst movies ever made imho), I really don't think I need to bother reading them.
It sucks that after the british comic revolution bringing forth so many great english comic writers into the mainstream, he's always the one people remember, and is now getting HOLLYWOOD attention. Uhg.
Did I mention that he really likes prostitutes? because you know, he really really likes them.
Sorry, I am a bit too much of a comic fanboy.
And I am not a fan of comics where the plot is MUSCLE MAN KILL WHORES.
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I never read The Dark Knight Returns (I stay far far away from the Big Three: Image, DC, and Marvel) but besides Sin City which started out good and progressively became average, Miller has proved to be a competent writer who knows a thing or two about layout, pacing, and delivering good action.
I personally would like to recommend Ronin which is his first work. The art is rough but it was one of the first American comic books to avidly take after the manga style of storytelling (I.E. a general focus on the characters and the interaction with their environments with lots of silent panels) and while Ronin won't win any awards for MOST ORIGINAL STORY EVER, it was pretty cutting edge back in 1984 and rivaled Moore's V for Vendetta in terms of popularity and importance in the evolution of comic books. It was also one of DC's first forays into graphic novels where instead of publishing 20 something page serials they published thick 60+ page paperbacks and that was kind of rare back in the early 80s.
Also, Ronin had no prostitutes. The main female lead was actually one of the strongest characters in the series (and she was black; a strong black female lead was COMPLETELY UNHEARD OF in the early 80s of comic books).
300 was okay. It wasn't a literary piece of genius or something amazing, it was just an oddly sized action comic that covered a popular topic in history. The movie actually turned it into somewhat of a fantasy as the comic book was somewhat accurate in terms of storytelling and design. Leonidus' wife never cheated on him and she was only shown for all of three panels. The rest of the story was naked guys (yes, they were mostly naked) stabbing each other with spears. I think it was an experiment in storytelling as it also had a very "manga" flare with its direction and layout.
Hard Boiled is one of his more controversial works but it's also my favorite. The story came about in anger over the reception given to comic books as mindless things of violence so Miller set out to create the most violent comic book in the market... and he succeeded. Every panel is intricately drawn (I forget the artist but he's probably the coolest comic book artist on the market: seriously, check out hard boiled) and they feature hundreds of people dying, having sex in the open, or getting blown up in some horrible way. The story is about submission to higher powers and how willing humans are to give up their freedoms to return to a life of mediocrity but for the most part it's about blood and violence and more blood and sex.
Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot is my second favorite work from him and he did a good job creating a sort of American Astro Boy. I don't have many words to say about it other than it was also a witty little satire on super heroes and their hidden agendas as well as how Americans are quick to teach their children to believe in falsities (like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny) only to have them grow up and realize that everything they loved as a child was fake.
Other than that, I know Miller wrote the screenplay for the decent RoboCop 2 and the TERRIBLE RoboCop 3 and he's also writing the screenplay for the upcoming The Spirit movie based off Will Eisner's iconic comic strip character. I never particularly enjoyed his movies because they're carbon copies of the comic books, but he does show some competency in the writing department and I look forward to The Spirit.
Other than that, anything he wrote for DC is a mystery to me. I hear his work on Daredevil was good but meh. I don't read that stuff.
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everyone seems to think All-Star Batman is tongue in cheek but honestly has he written anything NOT like that?
it would make sense if he had a single work that wasn't DUDES FIGHTING VIOLENTLY.
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Also Marcus. Robocop 2 was beyond comprehension in it's suckyness. Like how we're meant to feel sorry for the kid who got killed... even though he is a major asshole and has NO REDEEMING CHARACTER TRAITS. How the bad guy is essentially the old BIGGER STTRONGER KILLING MACHINE with no purpose other than to KILL. Robocop 2 is a disaster on every level, the designs are just ahghg (Seriously no police force would ever OK a design based on DEATH ON LEGS... ignoring the fact that he needs illegal drugs to work.) At least the first film had a suspension of disbelief, and had an actual plot/meaning to the story other than "Let's kill off all the characters we just introduced five minutes ago so we can lead to EPIC FINAL BATTLE". The first film gave us character, Robocop had emotions and he had become human at the end (mentally not physically). The second film removed the character progression, and replaced emotions with GUNS.
Since when has that ever been decent?
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Since when has that ever been decent?
Since action movies where, you know, action movies.
In all honesty, the last time I saw RoboCop 2 was when I was in kindergarten so I'm just talking out my ass here.
FREEZE CREEP!
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It sucks that after the british comic revolution bringing forth so many great english comic writers into the mainstream, he's always the one people remember, and is now getting HOLLYWOOD attention. Uhg.
I admit that I run in strange circles, but I tend to hear a lot more about Alan Moore and Warren Ellis than Frank Miller. And lately, that girl who got a job because she told everyone how stupid they were about writing women. Was it Gail Simone? I don't know if that's just because she's new or because she's really a phenom, though. I've read very little by her. I don't remember which run on Deadpool was hers (or was it Agent X at the time?), but Deadpool never feels like Deadpool without Fabian Nicieza writing him, to me, anyway. And he's such a specific sort of character that I can easily see good writers not doing him well....half of the fun of Deadpool is how mindlessly fun it is, and good writers aren't always great at mindless fun. They tend to prefer....Mindful Fun, I guess? Or Serious Business, maybe?
But anyway, yeah. Alan Moore and Warren Ellis are way cooler than Frank Miller, but I have no problem with someone writing something that is just balls-to-the-wall crazy distillation of the Superhero genre like Franky seems to like. That's basically all Nextwave was, and I loved Nextwave.
At any rate, I dunno about Frank Miller. If his writing felt a little more playful, I think I'd absolutely love him. Even when it's supposedly tongue-in-cheek (like Allstar "I'm the Goddamn" Batman), his stuff seems to take itself too seriously.
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I admit that I run in strange circles, but I tend to hear a lot more about Alan Moore and Warren Ellis than Frank Miller. And lately, that girl who got a job because she told everyone how stupid they were about writing women. Was it Gail Simone?
it is Gail Simone, and yeah, Agent X. she got banned on SA for refusing to follow the rules, and Warren Ellis left after the nerds scared him away.
but yeah it's also your circles! people outside of comics know Miller more than anyone else (barring Stan Lee).
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Mmm... Frank Miller.
The only work of his I appreciate is Batman: Year One. Too bad Paul Pope's Batman: Year 100 shits all over it.
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yah very few non-comic fans have even heard of Alan Moore (they might know movies based on his works... but mostly they have no clue they're even based on comics!), whilst everyone is on about "Frank Miller is so awesome, I saw 300 and then rushed out to buy the comic... it was SO GOOD!"
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Especially since Alan Moore doesn't even want his name in the credits of movies based on his comics, he's sort of a shadowy mystery to people who don't know anything about comics.
I don't have much of an opinion on Frank Miller. All I've read is The Dark Knight Returns and like five or six pages of Sin City. His art style (at least in Batman) annoyed me in a lot of places but in other places it had some really cool effect. Since I haven't read much by him I can only say that I thought TDKR was decent, but again if I'd read more and I'd seen firsthand that everything he does is the same I'd probably have a very different opinion.
I loved the Sin City movie and Frank Miller co-directed that as well as the obvious, so that was sort of interesting. 300 was a great movie too, but solely because it accomplished what it set out to: be a general asskicking action film without much else to it. Like Crank...man I loved Crank.
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Didn't Frank Miller also take over the Daredevil comic for a while? I'm pretty sure he also came up with Elektra.
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yah. she's one of his creations.
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*waits for Psyburn to come into thread*
I don't really like or dislike Frank Miller.
He's...whatever.
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I think peoples opinion of Frank Miller's work is of inverse porportion to how much of his stuff they've actually read... I mean, if you just read Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil and maybe one or two Sin City books, then you'd say "Wow, these are great comics that silmultaneously lampoon and glorify the brutal, violent nature of comic books"... But if you went on to read the rest of his stuff, like 300 or whatever, then you'd say "Uh, no, guess I was wrong about the whole subtly subversive subtext thing. This dude just really, REALLY likes people killing each other in gory ways. Also, whores".
Not that that means his books are bad... They're fun like Rambo movies or Mickey Spillane's "Mike Hammer" books... But mentioning them in the same breath as Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman? No fucking way.
Also, check out this comic strip showing Frank's creative processes... It's hilarious...http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2007/05/25/frank-millers-whores/
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I was actually gunna post that strip (and while waiting for the page to load, jumped onto shortpacked inorder to find it). It's from my fave webcomic XD
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Phew... so much to read. Gonna have to get to work earlier than a half an hour for this... Damn, and I'm out of time.
Well, I will point this out. Frank Miller has written some of my favorite quotes.
"Worth dying for,
Worth killing for,
Worth going to Hell for."
Okay, I will admit it. I've never actually seen 300 or Robocop. So I can't really comment on any of his movies except Sin City.
Oh, Kaworu, I was wondering. You kept mentioning comic fans and non-comic fans. Define that, because I might be considered a non-comic fan.
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As in people who don't waste copious amounts of time reading or reading about comics.
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I really hate subjects like this because its ...100% opinion. If you are entertained by whores and violence...he's your guy. If you want something deep and makes you PONDER and go "OH my..." than he is not your guy, by what you guys write he seems to be into giving you instant gratification.
I really hate the concept of "all he does is *insert list of all he does*" though
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If you are entertained by whores and violence...he's your guy.
Oh, sure, when you phrase it like that it sounds pretty okay...
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(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/23957/goddamn_batman.gif)
AAA writing right there, gj miller
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I was hoping someone would post that panel. XD
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whats there to say? hes the king of anime
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i love his work on sim city
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Frank Miller's sheer technical virtue sometimes overwhelms what little "dramatic storytelling" abilities he has.
But that did not stop 300 or Sin City from being great. (have not really read much else by him)
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I'll give Frank Miller credit.
At least he's a better writer than the people who wrote the Street Fighter USA cartoon.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGEJDKJdPGg + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00W42aJzPC4)
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i love his work on sim city
indeed (http://progressiveboink.com/archive/simcity/select.html)
Also, how did this topic get this far without the obligatory "Out of my way, sperm bank" post??
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because the obligatory "retarded" post is more than enough.
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That's the obligatory "I'm the goddamn Batman" post.
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Yeah. "I'm the goddamn Batman" is way better than "What are you, retarded?"
Although I think my favorite use of that line is when he says "I'm the goddamn Batman, and I'll call my goddamn car whatever I goddamn want." Or whatever.
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The best part of All Star Batman is how unbelievably cheesy the writing is. Aside from the "goddamn batman" scene, my favorite scene in the entire thing is:
Vicki Vale: ...I remember every goddamn thing. Every goddamn moment. I remember the kid. Dick Grayson, age 12.
AS IF THE READER HAS FORGOTTEN HIS AGE.
I often quote this in public to great effect.
I remember the kid. Dick Grayson, age 12.
But that's not all! In the next two issues, Miller tries his damnedest to remind the reader just how old Dick Grayson is through a milk carton and repeated dialog.
Finally, Bats was a raving lunatic in the entire story. My second favorite scene came from the "What do you call this anyway?" "Batmobile" "That's totally queer" and then Bats has this ridiculous frown on his face I spit up the milk I was drinking.
HOLD UP I AM NOT FINISHED!
The milk carton scene. OH GOD THE MILK CARTON SCENE. How is it that, 15 hours prior to Bats kidnapping Dick, his face is printed on every carton of milk nationwide? It's almost as ridiculous as Flash saving 300,000 people from a nuclear bomb in .000000001 seconds.
BUT THEN, ALL OF THIS LEADS UP TO ONE OF THE GREATEST LINES IN COMIC BOOK HISTORY!
Heads up. We're about to crash into some pretty fierce rock. I mean, it could make us completely dead.
Thank you Dick Grayson (age 12). Thank you gamingw for reliving something I tried to forget.
And this is why I don't read superhero comics.
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Chainer, I know people that would RAAAAAAAAAGE over that statement.
But yes, Batman is the world's greatest detective yet somehow Miller turned him into a pedo evil bastard who kidnaps little boys named Dick Grayson (age 12).
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And yes, though Miller was responsible for some of the most retarded Batman comics ever, he was also behind what I personally believe to be the Caped Crusader's finest hour:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/198/4480/640/year%20one%203.1.jpg
That, my friends, is Batman smashing a cop through a brick fucking wall because he shot at a cat. Now that's hardcore.
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Yes, he did some good and bad shit to Batman, but he brought Daredevil to the greatest heights the series has ever been at the time, giving the character more Catholic redemption elements. He created Elektra, and wrote some excellent dark stories that would create the basis of a Daredevil story. I absolutely loved his work on Daredevil #191. A self contained story about a kid who's superhero idol beats up his supervillian father.
I own a copy of Daredevil V1 #191 and 300 #1 from Frank Miller's personal collection also.
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I'll give Frank Miller credit.
At least he's a better writer than the people who wrote the Street Fighter USA cartoon.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGEJDKJdPGg + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00W42aJzPC4)
those two vids
oh my god :fogetcry:
best part: mini DeeJay
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Weeded out all of the Batman related posts that did not have anything to do with Frank Miller and added them to a new Batman topic (http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=68890.0).
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I absolutely loved his work on Daredevil #191. A self contained story about a kid who's superhero idol beats up his supervillian father.
I don't think I remember that one, although it sounds very similar to Bendis's 'Wake Up' arc in Daredevil v2...
Still, there's no denying his work on Daredevil was incredible... Which makes it even harder to believe his transormation into a total hack...
I still think the 'Born Again' arc is overrated, though.
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yah very few non-comic fans have even heard of Alan Moore
I don't know anyone BUT Alan Moore really but I'm not a comic guy like you say.
What's the deal with Frank Miller anyway? I remember him saying how much he hates all the films made out of his probably shitty comics so why are there CONSTANTLY MORE? Are his comic house in total control of that stuff?
I can't help but hate the guy, he's indirectly responsible for how many times I hear people saying this is sparta
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What's the deal with Frank Miller anyway? I remember him saying how much he hates all the films made out of his probably shitty comics so why are there CONSTANTLY MORE? Are his comic house in total control of that stuff?
I can't help but hate the guy, he's indirectly responsible for how many times I hear people saying this is sparta
Robert Rodriguez made a short Sin City film, the one with the girl in red who hires a mercenary to kill herself, and showed it to Frank Miller to try to persuade him to make a movie. Frank Miller did hate movies off his work but obviously this changed his mind. Sin City ended up being great and now he loves movie adaptions.
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Frank Miller was like the epitome of Daredevil.
I liked SIn CIty too, but Daredevil definitely hit a high point with him.
Batman has always sucked so I dunno what the big deal is when Frank Miller does a shitty job.
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Apparently Lionsgate loves Frank Miller's Will Eisner's The Spirit the Movie. So much so that Miller has been signed on to work on TWO MORE Frank Miller's Will Eisner's The Spirit the Movie sequels!
I can't wait!
I hate the old teaser poster though.
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A movie version of the spirit by Will Eisner by Frank Miller
pardon me?
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The title is "Will Eisner's The Spirit", and it's by Frank Miller.... and it looks horrible.
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I think it's gunna be Sin City in colour with pimpin masks.
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The title is "Will Eisner's The Spirit", and it's by Frank Miller.... and it looks horrible.
Well, there isn't anything to see besides a few screencaps of cops standing on a greenscreen and a shitty teaser poster.
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I'm talking about the comic, not the movie. GHOST COP COMES BACK TO KICK SOME ASS is not something I'd see as having a redeeming quality to it.