Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Tau on February 12, 2008, 02:45:29 pm
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(http://www.angel-spire.com/forum/uploads/IMG110-1202827171.jpg)
Lost Odyssey, featuring breathtaking visuals and an epic adventure, is the story of Kaim, an immortal character who has lived more than 1,000 years and doesn't remember his past and doesn't know where his future lies. Throughout Kaim's journey, a handful of characters will join him on an odyssey to discover their intricate past and destiny, leading players through a dramatic story of massive scale.
Features:
*Innovative RPG gameplay features. Lost Odyssey blends massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) elements into the game's traditional RPG system, enabling players to make strategic decisions for a more immersive and deep gameplay experience.
*Engaging and unparalleled emotional story. With story sequences penned by award-winning Japanese novelist Kiyoshi Shigematsu in cooperation with producer Hironobu Sakaguchi, Lost Odyssey sets a new benchmark for the RPG genre with a combination of true-to-life cinematics and the story of an immortal man who has been suffering in many ways for 1,000 years. Players will witness Kaim's life as he lives through many generations, becomes part of numerous families, falls in and out of love, and confronts all of the conflicts that arise. Kaim's struggles are set in a world that is on the verge of a "mystical industrial revolution," where mankind has attained dark powers.
*Massive scope and engrossing environments. The massively scoped worlds, memorable characters and epic story line of Lost Odyssey play out like an intense and unsettling blockbuster action film.
*Heading up the artistic demands of the title is famed Japanese comic artist Takehiko Inoue; renowned composer Nobuo Uematsu has been recruited to create a contemporary soundtrack.
*Realistic graphics in next-generation gaming. Powered by Unreal Engine 3 technology, Lost Odyssey boasts stunning visual fidelity and rendering quality. The Unreal Engine 3 technology pushes high-definition visual designs to a higher level and brings out the smallest details in the largest battles. Gamers will experience a rich dynamic world with an unprecedented level of detail. Users can experience the true-to-life gameplay and facial expressions of emotionally distressed characters in the world of Lost Odyssey.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.cheatcc.com/imagesx360/lostodyssey_00.jpeg)(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.cheatcc.com/imagesx360/lostodyssey_0000.jpeg)
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.cheatcc.com/imagesx360/lostodyssey_000.jpeg)(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/gaygamer.net/images/h-104_74654_lost.jpg.jpeg)
My Thoughts:
I am thinking of trading in my Playstation 3 for this game, just finished watching the Game Trailers review, looks absolutely incredible, lets hope the rumor of it going multi-platform is true. :naughty:
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I've heard that it's a good old school game, but that people looking for originality or anything should just skip it. They've said they were more worried about making an emotional experience than redefining the genre.
Personally, I'm looking forward to it, but these are the complaints I can see being levelled against it based on the reviews I've seen.
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I've heard that it's a good old school game, but that people looking for originality or anything should just skip it. They've said they were more worried about making an emotional experience than redefining the genre.
I found it troubling that some critics and gamers have complained about things like turn-based combat being "old-school" and "unoriginal", rather than viewing it just as a game archetype. Japanese RPG turn-based battles are a major framework for game design the same way that having a crosshair in the center of the screen and a button to shoot a gun. It seems like the reviews for this game are particularly of this persuasion -- IGN Australia's review blasted this game, listing the core mechanics of Japanese RPGs such as turn-based combat and long cutscenes as major strikes against the game. Considering that you make games with RPGMaker I'm really surprised that you have the same attitude. I'm not about to complain about review scores or anything like that, but it really is akin to giving game negative marks just because it has a crosshair on the screen or maybe because it requires that I am able to read.
I am personally really looking forward to this game. It's one of the first games that I've preordered for a long time (I do not anticipate retailers ordering a massive quanitity of copies). I couldn't really care less about the "emotional experience" that this game might might to provide or any sort of story it might try to tell because I am completely convinced that videogames will never really tell competent stories. I'm looking forward to the sorts of strategic gameplay, number-crunching, character customization, and exploration of exotic environments that Japanese RPGs and especially Final Fantasy games (let's not kid ourselves here) are always reliable for.
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It seems like the reviews for this game are particularly of this persuasion -- IGN Australia's review blasted this game, listing the core mechanics of Japanese RPGs such as turn-based combat and long cutscenes as major strikes against the game.
I think the problem isn't that it does these things, its that it doesn't do them particularly well.
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I think the problem isn't that it does these things, its that it doesn't do them particularly well.
The same review said that it was actually an excellent Japanese RPG. If that particular critic had discussed actual problems with the design (which he did by the way) then I wouldn't have a problem; he and other critics have acted like the game style itself is inherently broken rather than discussing its core merits inside of a given framework. I really like IGN overall and can forgive themselves for the silly crap like assigning editors to review every comic book published every day instead of covering videogames and the disgusting bullshit like babe of the day, but their and other major sites' coverage of Japanese RPGs really is unfair. I don't disagree with average scores because a score like a 7 or 8 is explicity described as something genre loyalists will love, which is probably true of Lost Odyssey. However, review text like this bothers me:
For all the immaculate presentation, there's a thick layer of dust over the gameplay and story . . . Lost Odyssey really is a paint-by-numbers RPG in a lot of ways, and that's a heartbreaking truth . . . the game is a checklist of things you've seen and done before . . . such traditional development is a problem for two reasons. One, it keeps happening and players keep buying into it, which means that it'll continue . . . it just colours in the squares, dots the lines, lets you travel in vehicles, play as your effeminate male leads, busty female vixens with swords and staves, see some outstanding sights and takes you on an epic journey across seas, continents and underground.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/849/849907p1.html
I mean it was an excellent review by a professional journalist and everything, but the overall tone of this and other reviews just seems like the critic was struggling not to hate this game. Critics are not complaining that too many games have had first-person aiming since Wolfenstein or that there have been too many space marines since Doom, so I don't see why effeminate male leads and travelling in vehicles is somehow a problem.
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I found it troubling that some critics and gamers have complained about things like turn-based combat being "old-school" and "unoriginal", rather than viewing it just as a game archetype. Japanese RPG turn-based battles are a major framework for game design the same way that having a crosshair in the center of the screen and a button to shoot a gun. It seems like the reviews for this game are particularly of this persuasion -- IGN Australia's review blasted this game, listing the core mechanics of Japanese RPGs such as turn-based combat and long cutscenes as major strikes against the game. Considering that you make games with RPGMaker I'm really surprised that you have the same attitude. I'm not about to complain about review scores or anything like that, but it really is akin to giving game negative marks just because it has a crosshair on the screen or maybe because it requires that I am able to read.
I am personally really looking forward to this game. It's one of the first games that I've preordered for a long time (I do not anticipate retailers ordering a massive quanitity of copies). I couldn't really care less about the "emotional experience" that this game might might to provide or any sort of story it might try to tell because I am completely convinced that videogames will never really tell competent stories. I'm looking forward to the sorts of strategic gameplay, number-crunching, character customization, and exploration of exotic environments that Japanese RPGs and especially Final Fantasy games (let's not kid ourselves here) are always reliable for.
Like I said, I'm looking forward to it. I'm just reporting what I've heard about it before people come in here yelling about how unoriginal it is.
I was playing devil's advocate, not trying to tell people not to play/buy it. Dude, I play and love Nippon Ichi games. Like every one that comes out. I am far from a person who insists on reinventing the wheel with every game. I just wanted to head off the inevitable "lol unoriginal japfag RPG" crap that I'm sure is on its way.
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Like I said, I'm looking forward to it. I'm just reporting what I've heard about it before people come in here yelling about how unoriginal it is.
I was playing devil's advocate, not trying to tell people not to play/buy it. Dude, I play and love Nippon Ichi games. Like every one that comes out. I am far from a person who insists on reinventing the wheel with every game. I just wanted to head off the inevitable "lol unoriginal japfag RPG" crap that I'm sure is on its way.
You should stand up for what you believe in :emo:
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the fact that even reviewers are willing to call this a bad game is a little disappointing! i'll probably still buy it when it comes out, since i don't really buy many games, and this is one i've been lightweight looking forward to since i heard about it and blue dragon as the first major 360 rpgs, but i guess i won't get my hopes up. i am looking forward to it, though; just the bit of information i've bothered to read about the basic premise, and the tone that i get out of those screenshots, makes it seem like a game i'd at least try.
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I'll probably pick this game up, but only after I purchase Eternal Sonata. I've yet to play that one.
This game looks incredible though, especially for a next gen RPG. I heard the game uses 4 discs, which is pretty insane. I'm not too fond of the gameplay after watching the reviews, but I've been going through Dragon Quest 8 and that hardly has any revolutionary gameplay. So this game looks like something I would be interested in.
I believe this is the first RPG to use the Unreal 3 engine?
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Got my preorder a while ago, going to pick it up tomorrow when it hits Canadian stores.
I don't think I'll be disappointed in any way. As stupid as some of the regular jRPGs are, Sakaguchi's stuff is usually excellent and even if it's cookie cutter, it's probably going to be an incredible cookie cutter game.
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but only after I purchase Eternal Sonata. I've yet to play that one.
edit: eternal sonata is really bad.
as for this game, i think it looks probably just as bad as eternal sonata was if the stuff i just read on ign and this topic is true. they just take a game that has already been made thousands of times, add a few amazing features like combining magic rings or whatever that bland shit i read was about, and make it shiny. this is the first time i've ever really looked at a game like this and just immediately thought it was going to be a load of shit because i have spent a lot of money and time playing these things and i'm 18 years old now i have learned that it is a cheat because they are putting in no new ideas and selling every single time.
I just wanted to head off the inevitable "lol unoriginal japfag RPG" crap that I'm sure is on its way.
what is the problem with people saying this stuff if it's true? i don't see why anyone continues to defend unoriginal boring shit especially when you are all the ones who are getting the piss taken out of them by the people who make these games.
The same review said that it was actually an excellent Japanese RPG. If that particular critic had discussed actual problems with the design (which he did by the way) then I wouldn't have a problem; he and other critics have acted like the game style itself is inherently broken rather than discussing its core merits inside of a given framework. I really like IGN overall and can forgive themselves for the silly crap like assigning editors to review every comic book published every day instead of covering videogames and the disgusting bullshit like babe of the day, but their and other major sites' coverage of Japanese RPGs really is unfair. I don't disagree with average scores because a score like a 7 or 8 is explicity described as something genre loyalists will love, which is probably true of Lost Odyssey. However, review text like this bothers me:
For all the immaculate presentation, there's a thick layer of dust over the gameplay and story . . . Lost Odyssey really is a paint-by-numbers RPG in a lot of ways, and that's a heartbreaking truth . . . the game is a checklist of things you've seen and done before . . . such traditional development is a problem for two reasons. One, it keeps happening and players keep buying into it, which means that it'll continue . . . it just colours in the squares, dots the lines, lets you travel in vehicles, play as your effeminate male leads, busty female vixens with swords and staves, see some outstanding sights and takes you on an epic journey across seas, continents and underground.
That review says that this game takes all the things japanese RPGs have been doing for years and years and does them as well as they can be done. it doesn't do anything else apart from be a jrpg. If you don't think this is enough of a reason to think a game is stupid, then you must think that it is okay for companies to continue producing glossed up versions of things you have already paid for. i don't think this is okay because there are other things to spend money on - there are other videogames to be spending money on.
I mean it was an excellent review by a professional journalist and everything, but the overall tone of this and other reviews just seems like the critic was struggling not to hate this game. Critics are not complaining that too many games have had first-person aiming since Wolfenstein or that there have been too many space marines since Doom, so I don't see why effeminate male leads and travelling in vehicles is somehow a problem.
so if a critic is not complaing about one tired cliche, they should not have a problem with any other tired cliches. and if critics aren't complaining about tired cliches, then why are cliches even a bad thing? cliches are a bad thing because it means ideas begin to stagnate and retread over themselves. things get boring, and usually this means people stop paying attention but this hasn't happened with this kind of game yet because people continue to buy them and it keeps the company in profit. the company thinks they've got this rpg game down and keep throwing out the same old shit. how long does it have to take until you have to say fuck that shit.
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wait, it comes out tomorrow? i thought it was mid-march!
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I do agree with what you said about jrpgs, real_jamicus. Really though, the same thing could be said about First Person Shooters, Gran Turismo games, etc. Bioshock takes all the things FPS games have been doing for years and years and it does them as well as they can be done. I consider that a pretty good game. Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with a game that does nothing really innovative, but does everything else pretty damn well. And personally I don't care what a reviewer says about a game. I think I know my own taste in video games. I'll take what they say with a grain of salt.
I don't buy a lot of jrpgs. I don't even buy games that much period. If I have the extra money to spend on a game like Eternal Sonata, which my friends have been saying is really good, then I'll go pick it up.
bazookatooth: The release date for the U.S is today. So it won't be in the stores until tomorrow. If you're in Europe, then it's February 29th.
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Well I liked Eternal Sonata & Mistwalker's other RPG Blue dragon so I'll probably like this. I'm the type of person who can enjoy a game because it's fun for me to play dispite there being zero innovations. Now don't get me wrong I do like innovative unique games but that doesn't mean I'm gonna automatically dislike games that use tired & true formulas that have already proven themselves to be fun. And it's not like you're playing the same game over again, the story's different & I'm pretty sure there are some gameplay differences as well.
I never listen to reviews, in fact I hardly ever read them. Usually if a game sounds like something I'd want to play I do & at which case I give the game the only review that matters to me, my on. There have been times when I've loved games that reviewers hated (the previously mentioned Blue Dragon for instance... well I didn't love it, just liked).
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It is pretty crazy, I have like 10 games to get through on my 360 still, but I'm probably still going to go buy this tomorrow (it's been out for weeks here) anyway. I'm surprised it's by Mistwalker, the style is completely different! Plus the development time is crazy, unless they developed it alongside Blue Dragon, which is highly likely.
Still, this looks like mad sweet fun, so I'mma definitely pick it up. :3 Now to finish Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata and... Enchanted Arms... (dunno if I'll bother with that)
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Speaking of the style, this is the first RPG from Japan made entirely with a "western" audience in mind. By that I mean you play as this disillusioned 1,000 year old god dude and slice your way through armies in an attempt to find meaning in your life because all your friends die before your or something. The generic love and friendship weeaboo story is also included and you can switch between storylines... or something like that. I haven't been keeping track of the game.
The only thing I can't stand right now is the name of the main character Kaim. It sounds way too much like Caim, the emo faggot from Drakkengard. God, that game was a pimple on Square's already pockmarked ass. I don't want to relive any memories from playing that piece of generic, repetitive trash.
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Looks like a good game to me. I'll be picking it up in the morning for sure.
All the reviewers are being stupid, IMO. They're like "it's a great game, BUT it's a turn-based RPG." They're refusing to accept that turn-based, menu-driven games are a subgenre of the RPG category, which also includes the game they compare with it, Mass Effect. To me, saying "Turn-based is bad" is the same as saying "Street Racing games are bad" You can't just deny a whole subset of the genre based on the fact that it doesn't work like the others. It's like saying: "This is a great street racing game, but it sucks because it doesn't professional tracks and Formula One cars!"
Sometimes, it's almost the same as saying that RPGs are bad because they aren't first-person shooters, and god knows some reviewers came pretty close.
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I would say a game using unreal 3 engine has a better than average chance of being ported to PC.
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And i believe that complaints like this might not happen with PS3. I am serious.
Like it has been marketted for some time that OH WELL PS3 MIGHT COME LATE BUT HEY AT LEAST IT'S GONNA HAVE A LOT OF JAPANESE GAMES (JRPGS!!! GOD BLESS SONY).
And now when Xbox tries to please the japanese audience with Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon (medicore reviews i know) it's sudendly a bad thing.
Now, i know that's just two games and that Blue Dragon got medicore reviews but really, from what i have read about this game the chances are it's gonna be as good as the recent Final Fantasy games. The game's even going to have similiar auto-battle system like in the recent Final Fantasy and that one got good reviews (the battle system (so IGN dissing the system? what??).
hghagrgha I'm trying my best to not to sound pro-360 but this is starting to irritate me. I'm going to wait until PS3's gonna have more JRPG's: fuck if they are not giving them a critical eye as well. (after all these years of bulk-jrpg's...(they'd better bash every rpg game ever coming out of ps3(fuck gamejournalism(*kaboom)))))
jRPG's. THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY HAS BEEN PLEADING FOR SINCE THE DAWN OF THE XBOXKIND. This is what fans WANT. Final Fantasies sell because people LOVE jRPG's!
this ridicilous trend of bashing of old systems 'spite of IT'S NOT INNOVATIVE is bullshit! QED!
*bashes the desk, ragged cheers from the crowd, fists raised up.
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it's not the gamplay which annoys me most about these games. it is pretty frustrating starting up a new videogame only to be reminded vividly of time you've already whittled away on another one, but i can generally get over that if it is still at least easy to play. what really jones me up is the total lack of thought that goes into everything else about the game.
and maybe this is just personal opinion but i think that like pretty much everything else ever, videogames have got some power to explore new ideas if they use it and even if you are using an old gameplay model because ARGH INNOVATIVEE GAMEPlAYS TOOO HAARDDD!!!! then you should please at least put something new into the premise of your game. not characters seen over and over again (stereotypes which if aren't destructive at least don't push us any further along the line), not stories told over and over again and not narrative structures, themes and entire vocabularies of a game world filled with stupid mindless crap which no-one is even able to pay real attention to because it is so utterly cliche is might as well not exist.
it annoys me to see a chance to explore new ideas wasted, and it's doubly annoying to see people encourage that kind of game making by buying the games.
I do agree with what you said about jrpgs, real_jamicus. Really though, the same thing could be said about First Person Shooters, Gran Turismo games, etc. Bioshock takes all the things FPS games have been doing for years and years and it does them as well as they can be done.
i don't think bioshock is really that great. the gameplay is functionable, but really yeah it is just a game i've played before so i'm not gonna compliment it on it's gameplay for being up to scratch. what was at least admirable about bioshock was that is attempted to incorporate some new stuff into it's premise. i don't think it really done it very well, but it took a whack at it and that is at least worthwhile because it might lay some groundwork for better stuff to come.
if a game, or anything which is creative, does at least one little thing new, then i'd say it is worth a little bit of time. lost odyssey doesn't seem like it does anything new at all - and adding frivolous menu mechanics is not new - and that's why i think it at least looks like a load of shit. i suppose i'm basing my opinion on speculation but it's not that wild considering how many of these games i've been totally disappointed in and annoyed by before.
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Why are you passing judgment on a game you have yet to play, theirs no real reason for you to say a game is "like a load of shit" when you have no basis behind your statement, but that's your opinion I guess and theirs nothing I could do to change that, it may either be your loss for not wanting to try this game, or it maybe in your favor. I think it does a couple of things new, like the whole guard thing, although it's practically in every rpg, they gave it some purpose and strategy to having you characters either in the back or front row with the guard damage bar and all.
I kinda get what bonzi is getting at, If this game did come to the Playstation 3, I don't think it would have gotten as much shit for it's turn based battle system, that's why I trust Game Trailers review of it, they say it could have used a bit more gameplay wise, but excels at what rpgs are supposed to excel at which is the story and characters and the world your engrossed into.
Anyone played this yet, wouldn't mind knowing what it's like?
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words
Oh, so you're a cynic :(
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I would like to say that this game has the THE WORST packaging out of any next-gen console game yet. Not only is the NA boxart TERRIBLE (I mean really, really terrible) but the game is four discs long and comes in a single disc package. How do they fit four discs in a box without multiple disc flaps? They stick three discs on top of each other and the third disc in a paper case. A PAPER FUCKING CASE.
Goddammit MicroTrash. WTF is this? People on GFaqs board are having their BRAND NEW SEALED copies completely scratched up when they open it and this is the reason why. Is it that much more expensive to include two seperate fold out disc flaps???? The Japanese version's box is actually slightly bigger as a result but NO MICROSOFT CANNOT DO THIS. Microsoft doesn't mind throwing 50 billion dollars at Yahoo but HAY GUYZ LETS MAKE A HAPHAZARD PACKAGE FOR A GAME WE'RE DEPENDING ON TO INCREASE OUR WEEABOO IMAGE!
jap version
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/lo2.jpg)
our version
(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/pic-0070.jpg)
p.s. that's not my hand. i didn't suddenly turn white.
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Oh, so you're a cynic :(
holy shit my entire two posts have been about how videogames can be more than hackneyed shitfests.
Why are you passing judgment on a game you have yet to play, theirs no real reason for you to say a game is "like a load of shit" when you have no basis behind your statement, but that's your opinion I guess and theirs nothing I could do to change that, it may either be your loss for not wanting to try this game, or it maybe in your favor. I think it does a couple of things new, like the whole guard thing, although it's practically in every rpg, they gave it some purpose and strategy to having you characters either in the back or front row with the guard damage bar and all.
i adressed the fact that i haven't played this already. the fact that i'm not going to play this is part of my point, i'm not going to assume the best this time because all the stuff i read about this game puts it in a category of games which are steadfast in their refusal to wisen up! these games continue to be utter shit and you aren't getting it
and that point about the innovative guard system is just hilarious.
edit:
also the original post is pretty terrible and even indicative of the kind of game this is. 23 lines of adcopy, a couple of screens and my thoughts: 2 lines. you actually put almost no effort into discussing the game and covered it up with a bunch of meaningless bullshit which you didn't even write. HWHWHWW - just like the game itself!!!!
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Ahh Microsoft, butter up to the Japs for more sales and give us scratched discs and a paper case haha. I was addressing the fact that you can't really say a games shit without having played it, and I would get it, but I only have a Playstation 3, if I did have a 360, I probably would have gotten it. The guard system is innovative!!.. ohk not really, but it's something haha.
Just because I spent like five minutes on the topic doesn't stop anyone from discussing it, I would have made a more in depth thread had I played the game, but seeing as I haven't, why not just post the details of the game and hope for the best. :happy:
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SCANDAL
Man, that's awful :(
I guess I can just keep the game in one of my several empty PC game cases with those massive spindles on them. I have a bunch because I have bought a few game expansions and then put them in the original release's case, and my girlfriend has an enormous collection of Sims 2 expansions and Stuff packs. But still.
My girlfriend is going to pick this game up for me on her way home from work and I'm really looking forward to playing it. I think I'll wait until the weekend though because my real life doesn't really have time for fun stuff during the work week.
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it's not the gamplay which annoys me most about these games. it is pretty frustrating starting up a new videogame only to be reminded vividly of time you've already whittled away on another one, but i can generally get over that if it is still at least easy to play. what really jones me up is the total lack of thought that goes into everything else about the game.
and maybe this is just personal opinion but i think that like pretty much everything else ever, videogames have got some power to explore new ideas if they use it and even if you are using an old gameplay model because ARGH INNOVATIVEE GAMEPlAYS TOOO HAARDDD!!!! then you should please at least put something new into the premise of your game. not characters seen over and over again (stereotypes which if aren't destructive at least don't push us any further along the line), not stories told over and over again and not narrative structures, themes and entire vocabularies of a game world filled with stupid mindless crap which no-one is even able to pay real attention to because it is so utterly cliche is might as well not exist.
it annoys me to see a chance to explore new ideas wasted, and it's doubly annoying to see people encourage that kind of game making by buying the games.
i don't think bioshock is really that great. the gameplay is functionable, but really yeah it is just a game i've played before so i'm not gonna compliment it on it's gameplay for being up to scratch. what was at least admirable about bioshock was that is attempted to incorporate some new stuff into it's premise. i don't think it really done it very well, but it took a whack at it and that is at least worthwhile because it might lay some groundwork for better stuff to come.
if a game, or anything which is creative, does at least one little thing new, then i'd say it is worth a little bit of time. lost odyssey doesn't seem like it does anything new at all - and adding frivolous menu mechanics is not new - and that's why i think it at least looks like a load of shit. i suppose i'm basing my opinion on speculation but it's not that wild considering how many of these games i've been totally disappointed in and annoyed by before.
So your point, basically, is that there is no room for perfecting old forms or building on past accomplishments: the only acceptable media are those that are shiny and new, and once they are no longer shiny and new, it is no longer acceptable to try to do things with the elements used to make them. An admittedly excellent game is a "hackneyed shitfest" because it only attempts to perfect an old genre(and according to all accounts I've heard, does a pretty good job, including your own reference), rather than inventing a new one.
I think you're really limiting yourself in terms of entertainment by insisting that the only things worth taking in are things that are revolutionary. Because there's very little that is.
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Man... I really need to get an xbox 360 for both this and Blue Dragon.
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So your point, basically, is that there is no room for perfecting old forms or building on past accomplishments
i'm not saying this at all. this game, and games like it which are still getting released every day, have absolutely nothing to add. they aren't even trying to improve anything, they do the absolute bare minimum they have to do. in this case, the game upgrades the graphics and comes with a pedigree - those are the only two features i've seen that separate it from any other japanese rpg.
"perfecting old forms" would mean taking what already exists and fixing the problems it had. i haven't read anything that suggests this game does this, only that is offers the best of what already exists. "building on past accomplishments" cannot be applied to this because it is entirely riding on past accomplishments.
obviously i haven't played the game - i don't think anyone here has yet you all still want to buy it despite every inch of it's advertising and coverage says you have played this game before! you want to pay for more of the same, and so more of the same will keep getting made. i'm not proclaiming my undying hatred for jrpgs here, i'm just saying if games stay the same all the time things are gonna get really really boring.
: the only acceptable media are those that are shiny and new, and once they are no longer shiny and new, it is no longer acceptable to try to do things with the elements used to make them.
my entire argument has been about substance over style, substance being new ideas. i'm not talking about flash - this game has got plenty of flash all right. you can't just be commandeering my rhetoric for no reason guy.
An admittedly excellent game is a "hackneyed shitfest" because it only attempts to perfect an old genre(and according to all accounts I've heard, does a pretty good job, including your own reference), rather than inventing a new one.
I think you're really limiting yourself in terms of entertainment by insisting that the only things worth taking in are things that are revolutionary. Because there's very little that is.
who is admitting this game is excellent? all the people i've read who have played it say it is a pretty boring game. reviews has also been saying it doesn't perfect an old genre, it simply exists within boundaries already set.
this is where the disconnect comes in between video games and things like movies and books. if a movie blatantly rips off the ideas of movies which have come before it, or simply adheres to a very old formula - it gets shitty reviews and anyone with sense doesn't like it. same deal with books - but if a game does this, then as long as the old formula is still kinda fun well fuck yes let's eat this up.
if the core experience is exactly the same and you know this and you still want to spend your money on it, then YOU are the one who is only concerned with shit that is shiny and new.
the reason i keep posting is because i want to convince anyone reading that if you buy this game and spend all the hours it demands playing it, what you are doing is propagating an attitude that games are worthless and that you are all stupid. you are also encouraging developers to make boring games because that is what sells. and you are wasting you own time which, if i'm being optimistic, could be better enjoyed playing something well made that has fresh ideas to boot.
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Oh man I just typed a bunch and lost it because I hit the back button on my mouse.
Anyway
You're acting like we've been brainwashed into wanting to play this game, rather than basing our decision on it looking like what we like. This is billed as a Japanese RPG made by people who have made some pretty good Japanese RPGs in the past. Halo 3 was billed as an FPS made by people who make pretty good shooters and No More Heroes is billed as a zany faux-art game made by people with a reputation for making zany games. We haven't been given any Kool-Aid, per se, but rather we just enjoy games like this.
I think you really need to lay off man because it's ridiculous to get worked up and offended about someone else liking something that you don't. Nobody here is saying that the videogame is GROUNDBREAKING but all we're saying is that maybe it's a reasonably competent RPG worth playing and there haven't been a lot of them released in the past few years so we're excited!
i'm not saying this at all. this game, and games like it which are still getting released every day, have absolutely nothing to add. they aren't even trying to improve anything, they do the absolute bare minimum they have to do. in this case, the game upgrades the graphics and comes with a pedigree - those are the only two features i've seen that separate it from any other japanese rpg.
So maybe that's enough? Does every game we play have to be the best and most innovative game ever made? Lost Odyssey might play it safe in terms of overall presentation and features, but so have hundreds of other games over the years that have certainly been worth playing. This is a game following an established mould but filling it in with new content -- dungeons we haven't navigated, battles we haven't fought, characters we haven't played as. I get to make numbers go up that haven't gone up before and that is really the appeal of a game like this that has a lot of numbers to increment.
All video game genres tend to follow this trend and I don't really think it's a problem the way you do and really I think you are being irrational. What sets this game apart I guess is that it's a modern example of a genre that is pretty poorly represented thus far on current consoles and, honestly, in general. Say what you will about graphical upgrades but in my opinion it's pretty cool to play a game with fairly familiar mechanics but with prettier pictures and new content. Everyone seems to think that the Bionic Commando remake (not the new sequel) and Cave Story are the coolest things ever even though they do the same thing but just go further back in time and borrow from different genres.
I mean, I really do think that your problem is that you're cynical and you hate everything and will probably find a reason to be pissed off about any game that anyone is excited about. Seriously man why are you so antagonistic?
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Oh man I just typed a bunch and lost it because...anyone is excited about. Seriously man why are you so antagonistic?
look this is videogames, of course it doesn't really matter but we're in the videogame forums and it would get tiresome to read a post which kept restating "BUT HECK not that any of what i'm saying is important.". and i'm not saying this to fight with people for the sake of it, i'm saying it because i think it might be helpful for somebody to hear.
and what is this stuff about cynicism. i don't think you are even trying to understand what i'm saying, and i'm not gonna sit here and write another big post cos i said all there is to say already. the thing that is getting me kind of riled up is how it seems like i'm shouting at a wall here cos it's not that people are coming up with good arguments against what i'm saying, they're just deciding on what they think it is i am going on about and filing it under the anti-jrpg file which just...pffff
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The game doesnt do anything new (the rings are a simplified version of Shadow Hearts judgement rings), but its an ok game.
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DISCS SCANDAL
Haha, man, that is pretty awful. x_x Luckily my local gameshop is selling both the Japanese AND the PAL version (Japanese is region free + in English), so I might just be tempted to go for the Japanese version seeing that. The cover art is pretty awful, though. As gay and faggy as it is, I love the PAL cover art.
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So your point, basically, is that there is no room for perfecting old forms or building on past accomplishments: the only acceptable media are those that are shiny and new, and once they are no longer shiny and new, it is no longer acceptable to try to do things with the elements used to make them. An admittedly excellent game is a "hackneyed shitfest" because it only attempts to perfect an old genre(and according to all accounts I've heard, does a pretty good job, including your own reference), rather than inventing a new one.
I think you're really limiting yourself in terms of entertainment by insisting that the only things worth taking in are things that are revolutionary. Because there's very little that is.
aren't you the guy who hates first person shooters because they're all the same
or something
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basically its games like this that cause bort and chef and gz to make charles barkley
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aren't you the guy who hates first person shooters because they're all the same
or something
I don't play First Person Shooters because the genre doesn't appeal to me (for the most part--the Metroid Prime series has been an exception because of how much of the Adventure genre they've mixed in with it and because I've already got an emotional attachment to the character/setting/franchise/whatever you want to call it) and therefore whatever changes they do make don't matter to me. I've put it more glibly in the past, but that's my real issue with FPSes, after trying to get into about a dozen of them.
I've assumed from the get-go that was the real crux of the issue with this game: the people who are saying that it's going to be terrible because it's so traditional are just not fans of jRPGs to begin with, but have decided to wax philosophical on why this viewpoint is better than others.
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Haha, man, that is pretty awful. x_x Luckily my local gameshop is selling both the Japanese AND the PAL version (Japanese is region free + in English), so I might just be tempted to go for the Japanese version seeing that. The cover art is pretty awful, though. As gay and faggy as it is, I love the PAL cover art.
My understanding is that the japanese version is region locked and doesn't have english text, only english vas. Did you mean the asian version? The Asian version is PAL compatible, but doesn't work in North America, and has english text as well as english VAs available.
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That's the one, the Asian version. My mistake!
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and what is this stuff about cynicism. i don't think you are even trying to understand what i'm saying,
Actually I do understand what you are saying. I agree with your philosophy, really, but I don't think it applies here -- the sort of trash you're talking about is the Tales Of series. But whatever we both withdraw right?
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dont trade your PS3 for this game. Get Devil May Cry 4 instead
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This may particularly interest Mala, but Uematsu has stated that this game has his favorite composition out of all of his projects. He said in an interview that if he had time to do another concert, it would be the entire sound track.
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This may particularly interest Mala, but Uematsu has stated that this game has his favorite composition out of all of his projects. He said in an interview that if he had time to do another concert, it would be the entire sound track.
I downloaded the soundtrack recently and I can see why he would say this. From the standpoint of pure composition, it's probably his most complicated and sophisticated album. It's clear an awful lot of work went into every single track.
I can't speak for how it works in the game, but it feels like this was done at the expense of the soundtrack's ultimate mood diversity. I don't really know if this is in line with the way most people perceive his work, but what I've always really appreciated about Uematsu's finer works were how perfectly they fit the situation in which they were used, and the target mood of that particular section of the game. I've said it many times on this forum that I think one of the main reasons - if not THE main reason - why Final Fantasy games were effective in storytelling was how much Uematsu's music clarified and amplified the desired mood and atmosphere of damn near every story event in the game.
Again, I have no idea how well this works in the game, but the Lost Odyssey soundtrack sounds fairly unspecific to me. I really don't see how the music has much potential for reflecting what is actually happening in the game, unless the game is just one gigantic series of EPIC CUTSCENES, which I suppose is possible.
Don't get me wrong, however. It is a pretty good soundtrack, particularly by the current dreadful industry standards, and some of the best work I've heard out of Uematsu in a very long time. I'm mainly a little discouraged that he thinks of this as his MASTERPIECE. Probably a sign that his music will continue getting progressively more and more impersonal and cinematic. Oh well.
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I can't speak for how it works in the game, but it feels like this was done at the expense of the soundtrack's ultimate mood diversity. I don't really know if this is in line with the way most people perceive his work, but what I've always really appreciated about Uematsu's finer works were how perfectly they fit the situation in which they were used, and the target mood of that particular section of the game.
After the Blue Dragon boss theme actually I'll take anything I can get.
I think a misconception a lot of people have is that music has to "fit" the scene or mood; this is something that people who don't write soundtracks tend to think. What actually happens is that the music establishes the mood. There is almost no such thing as the music not fitting the scene.
That said, the music is really good. It's actually a lot more diverse than you might be thinking, because sweeping orchestral tracks are interspersed with American and Japanese folk instruments and you'll occasionally hear a hard rock tune. Of course, Uematsu is at his best when he's writing for orchestra, and that's when the game shines. I haven't played the whole game yet though so I can't comment on the whole soundtrack.
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I think a misconception a lot of people have is that music has to "fit" the scene or mood; this is something that people who don't write soundtracks tend to think. What actually happens is that the music establishes the mood.
This is a ridiculous generalization. Are you actually trying to assert that music is solely responsible for establishing the mood of an audio/visual experience?
What happens when you are making a film or a videogame, and you've written the whole story out, created the visual/interactive end, and then go to the composer to score the thing? If the work is of any quality, there is already a mood and atmosphere established in the work that would work with or without the music, and it would then be the job of the composer to make music that, for lack of a better word, FITS in with the rest of the piece. At that point, the music's purpose is to further solidify that which the rest of the work has already begun establishing.
There is almost no such thing as the music not fitting the scene.
I do not realistically see how anybody can hold this belief.
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The music actually fits the scene really well! I was going to say that I thought this was Uematsu's best work, having played about an hour of the game and only heard the music there (not having downloaded it or anything), but yeah. It is really, really good and fits pretty damn well!
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I think a misconception a lot of people have is that music has to "fit" the scene or mood; this is something that people who don't write soundtracks tend to think. What actually happens is that the music establishes the mood. There is almost no such thing as the music not fitting the scene.
I don't agree with this at all. As a composer who has composed for a few short films and computer games, I have been asked to compose music for very specific events. The music needs to compliment the visuals and the narrative. Sure, you could put any music behind a scene and it could completely change the meaning, but the director usually has specific idea of what kind of mood he is trying unveil in the picture and it the composer's job capture this through the medium of music.
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btw, this game is actually sick. it has a very deep and enthralling story, I cant stop playing it. the music is great and the battles are just awesome too, challenging as well. boss fights will probably take you more than one try to beat. also, the skill learning system is reminiscent to final fantasy 9's AP stuff. its really fun and if you like jrpgs and/or final fantasy you will probably love this game. its definitely a 9/10 for me at this point in time.
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Lost Odyssey hasn't been getting the best reviews ever, but I think I'd like it a lot. I have no problems with it being traditional and based on the gametrailers review, it has some cool ideas and the battle system seems good to me. I am really interested in the soundtrack and I just have really high hopes for this game, considering who are behind it. Blue Dragon didn't appeal to me at all but this and Mass Effect almost make me want to buy xbox360. Mass Effect will surely come out on PC as well though.
But still, this game looks excellent to me. My friend will most likely buy Lost Odyssey when it comes out in Europe so maybe I can just borrow his xbox360. In any case, I really want to play this.
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I think a misconception a lot of people have is that music has to "fit" the scene or mood; this is something that people who don't write soundtracks tend to think. What actually happens is that the music establishes the mood. There is almost no such thing as the music not fitting the scene.
http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=3397.0
I beg to differ.
I don't own this, but it looks to me that this is just another epic J-RPG that is just too long to finish.
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I am going to back out of the music discussion because as a composer with enough experience to have an opinion I'm going to stand firm and it really won't get us anywhere other than derailing the topic (agree to disagree ok).
Lost Odyssey hasn't been getting the best reviews ever, but I think I'd like it a lot. I have no problems with it being traditional and based on the gametrailers review, it has some cool ideas and the battle system seems good to me. I am really interested in the soundtrack and I just have really high hopes for this game, considering who are behind it. Blue Dragon didn't appeal to me at all but this and Mass Effect almost make me want to buy xbox360. Mass Effect will surely come out on PC as well though.
But still, this game looks excellent to me. My friend will most likely buy Lost Odyssey when it comes out in Europe so maybe I can just borrow his xbox360. In any case, I really want to play this.
I really, really love the game. I'm played about 10 hours or so in the last few days, although there's a lot of idle time in there so it might be half that. It's an extremely well-done RPG in a very specific style, just like it is billed as. When I bought Halo 3 and played the singleplayer campaign and I was extremely impressed with the high level of polish and really clever level design (although unless you play on the hardest difficulty you can get away with run-and-gun and it actually ends up seeming pretty crappy). This game sort of gives me all the same feelings that Halo 3 did, in a different genre, so I guess go ahead and keep being excited.
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Mass Effect will surely come out on PC as well though.
But still, this game looks excellent to me. My friend will most likely buy Lost Odyssey when it comes out in Europe so maybe I can just borrow his xbox360. In any case, I really want to play this.
Mass Effect comes to PC in like May or something I don't know, but I know it's been confirmed, an I'm pretty sure it's out in Europe already, because I live in New Zealand and it's out here so it MUST be out over there. I am sp saving up for a 360 for this, Mass Effect, and some other games.
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I am going to back out of the music discussion because as a composer with enough experience to have an opinion I'm going to stand firm and it really won't get us anywhere other than derailing the topic (agree to disagree ok).
that's weak dude you totally just said all music fits all situations and then said I AM A PROF. COMPOSER SO LETS NOT TALK.
shit im gonna go to a funeral and play some gza check me out *does a kickflip*
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shit im gonna go to a funeral and play some gza check me out *does a kickflip*
oh man this is an awesome idea, thank you.
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I haven't played the game yet, so this is just coming from the reviews. I think that the game is actually excellent if you don't mind the traditional gameplay. I'm really excited for this game. It's actually what I bought the 360 for when I first heard about it. I am disappointed with a few things though.
When the game was first announced, the story sounded original, in that you played through the life of an immortal character. The finished product however sounds a little clichẻ, and maybe a little Planescape Torment-ish. Based on the Gametrailers review, it has that anime vibe that I'm not really a fan of, and it might be the facial expressions. The actual voices sound great, but the faces and people talking look really fake. At first I thought it was just a Japan/Unreal Engine thing, but then I saw a Last Remnant trailer and the faces were perfect.
I'll still buy it, and probably enjoy it. I'm looking forward to the short stories the most. Everybody says those are great.
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Kaim runs like a retard, which annoys me immensely, and that single strand of hair over the front of his face is also horribly annoying. Gah!
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Now for some criticism from someone who actually played the game!
It's really hard. It's difficult to balance a turn based RPG (although the DQ series has done it near perfect) but this game is difficult in a "WE ARE CHEAP" sort of way. The game actually has a low encounter rate and you're not likely to encounter many enemies in a single field. But, enemies have super overpowered special attacks that can whipe out party members in 1-2 hits so most boss battles (and even normal fights) end up being a prayer session that they don't repeat their ZOMG HAX skills twice in a row.
What makes this even more annoying is that there is absolutely no grinding in this game. The experience is scaled like in Suikoden so eventually weaker enemies will be giving you 1exp per fight. The skill system is also an incredible chore as you have to constantly micromanage everything you're learning. The battles being turn based doesn't detract from the game so much as they are completely unforgiving.
Besides those nitpicks, the "mature" storyline is a definite departure from the standard jRPG fare. It's still pretty pretentious and there's lots of emo fags falling to their knees and crying but there are several heartwrenching scenes and Uematsu's score is pretty damn awesome and fits the mood. The Thousand Years of Dreams sequences are incredibly well written but HOLY FUCK do they kill the flow of the game. The pacing is spot on for an RPG but when you're thrust into a TEXT ONLY RADICAL DREAMERS-ESQUE FANSERVICE SCENE it totally ruins some scenes. It's integral to the story but they could have gone about this in a completely different (read: better) way.
Overall, it's an above average game and hopefully future jRPGs will follow in its footsteps by not sucking. The balance could have definitely been tweaked and the text only cinemas could have been totally axed, but everything else is spot on. I recommend this for a rental because it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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The gameplay is meh, but Sakaguchi is an AMAZING storyteller.
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I'm actually 100% agreeing with Marcus, although I recommend it a bit more than just a rental because I really enjoy it.
Like he said, it's really hard as hell as the enemies basically decide randomly that "I KILL YOU" with certain attack. It's only on disc 1 and there's enemies that poison the whole party with one attack. Note though, through the skill system, the Immortal characters can learn Poison Immune (and so on) and I guess the mortals have to wear the Immune accessories. I'm not too sure. I faced a boss not too long ago that was a giant worm creature that sucks up magic from it's five smaller bug friends. Once it's magic meter fills, it used "Para-Flare" which dealt up to 200 HP or more damage to the party and also paralyzed them (unless you were Immune or EXTREMELY lucky.).
So yeah it gets annoying as hell when you're trying to grind (read: it's impossible) and you're dying in the normal battles.
As for "micromanaging", I don't think it's bad. I actually enjoy the twist of immortals learning skills from accessories and linking up with the mortal characters. It's pretty interesting. Also, even though the EXP will lower, the SP will always stay the same. SP is required for immortals to learn skills.
Finally, the story is great and different. At points it has been ridiculous so far but I guess it "has" to be. I mean the main character (and a few others) are immortal so you're bound to run into all sorts of people that will freak out. This one scene actually made me shed a tear, but I hope it was just because it was ridiculous/sad and that it was 3 AM. The Dream Sequences like Marcus said, are extremely wrong. The thing is, you can choose not to view them at that time so it doesn't necessarily mess up the flow too bad.
So in the end, this is an excellent game and I think it's a lot better than what it's getting reviewed. If you're not bothered by traditional RPG style (it does it extremely well), then this might be a game you'd really want to check out.
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that's weak dude you totally just said all music fits all situations and then said I AM A PROF. COMPOSER SO LETS NOT TALK.
shit im gonna go to a funeral and play some gza check me out *does a kickflip*
Actually that's not what I said. I said that the music will shape the situation. So, really there is no such thing as it not fitting. It's just that sometimes the mood established by the music isn't what maybe you wanted it to be.
About the game: I'm pretty far into it and I don't think it's outrageously hard or really even that cheap at all. In my opinion the difficulty is pretty finely balanced; as long as your strategy is sound you should never actually die. The enemies never outclass you, they just require that you make the most of your available abilities.
One thing that is hillarious about this game is that sometimes it plays like a Final Fantasy: Greatest Hits album. Last night I totally just played through the ShinRa mansion, for example; I also had Palom and Porom in my party at the time, and before that I had re-enacted Edward's dream sequence from Final Fantasy IV when he fights a monster and a ghost appears and tells him to be strong.
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Now for some criticism from someone who actually played the game!
It's really hard. It's difficult to balance a turn based RPG (although the DQ series has done it near perfect) but this game is difficult in a "WE ARE CHEAP" sort of way. The game actually has a low encounter rate and you're not likely to encounter many enemies in a single field. But, enemies have super overpowered special attacks that can whipe out party members in 1-2 hits so most boss battles (and even normal fights) end up being a prayer session that they don't repeat their ZOMG HAX skills twice in a row.
sounds like xenosaga (1 more than the others) which makes me sad as heck.
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i listened to a couple of the tracks of the sountrack and i thought some of it was pretty good. it's not pop music like ff soundtracks were, from what i heard, and it's kind of more similar to hitoshi sakimoto but manages to avoid being bland which he does a lot.
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After finishing the game, here are my thoughts:
The people who have given insight on it(Marcus, Fire Mage) all make very valid points. IMO, the game has flaws, and it's definitely nothing new. It doesn't break the mold, but it does take the old mold to a new level. It's not perfect(is any game ever?) but I think that it certainly does more things right than wrong, and I think that for almost anybody who enjoyed the RPGs of "old"(not necessarily all "old" per se, but I'm especially thinking FF6-9, a lot of Snes Square RPGs, the Shadow Hearts series, etc) will find themselves at home with this one. I can only hope that this is the beginning of great things for Mistwalker. There's certainly a lot for them to improve on for their future efforts(technical issues, pacing, also some budget and management related stuff, according to interviews with Sakaguchi), but they've still managed to make something very impressive. It's the first console RPG in a long time where I've said to myself "Now, this was worth my money"
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One other thing I meant to mention about that worm boss. Even with it's annoying as hell attacks, it wasn't too bad...
But then after you defeat it, another one appears and you start the EXACT SAME BATTLE ALL OVER. It was so fucking annoying. That was a long time ago in the game for me though.
But I can forgive and forget, since this game is pretty amazing.
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So playing through this game, there's so much superfluous fluff. There are moments where you are told to push a switch to trap a droid behind a door, and that's exactly what you do: the switch is right in front of you, the timing isn't difficult to get, and the concept is never repeated. The game tells you how do do it (so it's not as if the player has to figure it out and feels clever).
I mean, there's no point. It's just there.
And then there's a moment where you have to collect 10 branches. They're just strewn in random places and you're backtracking and it's just FLUFF.
Yes, I'm aware this is typical rpg fare but even fetch quests are better attempts at masking the pure arbitrariness (is that a word) of this sort of thing.
The 1000 Years of Dreams have some interesting short stories and they help flesh out the main character, but it's just text on a page which is kind of disappointing. Why not just read the book?
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hahahaha man this sounds so bad
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Btw if anyone's seen the commercial Jefferson Airplane must be spinning in their grave right now (I dunno are they alive or dead I thought the singer died)
Edit: nvm she's alive I was probably thinking of Janis Joplin
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So playing through this game, there's so much superfluous fluff. There are moments where you are told to push a switch to trap a droid behind a door, and that's exactly what you do: the switch is right in front of you, the timing isn't difficult to get, and the concept is never repeated. The game tells you how do do it (so it's not as if the player has to figure it out and feels clever).
I mean, there's no point. It's just there.
And then there's a moment where you have to collect 10 branches. They're just strewn in random places and you're backtracking and it's just FLUFF.
Yes, I'm aware this is typical rpg fare but even fetch quests are better attempts at masking the pure arbitrariness (is that a word) of this sort of thing.
The 1000 Years of Dreams have some interesting short stories and they help flesh out the main character, but it's just text on a page which is kind of disappointing. Why not just read the book?
Have you completed this game? Because that's like stuff off disc one, so you've hardly played through the game.
And also, EVERY GAME is going to have fluff. Yes, there are flaws to this game, but the good most definitely outweighs the bad.
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The 1000 Years of Dreams have some interesting short stories and they help flesh out the main character, but it's just text on a page which is kind of disappointing. Why not just read the book?
You do know that most of the first adventure and rpg games (most, more like all) were only text.
Have the gamers imagination died so much that they absolutely need shiny graphics to be interested in a story. Sure, it's not interactive and that's a crime imo in a game but a 1000 Years of Dreams is just a nice collection of short stories that you can read when taking break of the action.
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Have you completed this game? Because that's like stuff off disc one, so you've hardly played through the game.
Yeah the first disc gets really awful after the intro. I was shocked when the game made me collect flowers and THEN collect sticks and THEN play some retarded minigame when I was supposed to be grieving someone's death. After the fairly cool introduction I felt like the entire point of the first disc was to waste my time. Nothing happened to propel the plot forward and none of the game scenarios were very interesting. Blue Dragon had exactly the same problem; in that game, your characters were marooned in a strange country fairly early on and then spend the entire first disc (15 hours or so?) walking back home. Nothing happens the entire time except for a few dull dungeons.
You do know that most of the first adventure and rpg games (most, more like all) were only text.
Have the gamers imagination died so much that they absolutely need shiny graphics to be interested in a story. Sure, it's not interactive and that's a crime imo in a game but a 1000 Years of Dreams is just a nice collection of short stories that you can read when taking break of the action.
Well I thought that with the art and the sound effects and stuff it was a lot more interesting and "gamelike" than just sitting down with a novel. Also, I actually prefer reading about the character's past over watching cutscenes because the game would have been incredibly long and incredibly dull if I would have had to watch Kaim stack fruit or load cargo or whatever odd jobs he had taken over the years. I would think it would be a valid criticism to complain that it's an abuse of the medium or whatever, but since you can skip them and there's no essential information in them whatsoever, I don't really see that any criticisms are valid.
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Yeah the first disc gets really awful after the intro. I was shocked when the game made me collect flowers and THEN collect sticks and THEN play some retarded minigame when I was supposed to be grieving someone's death. After the fairly cool introduction I felt like the entire point of the first disc was to waste my time. Nothing happened to propel the plot forward and none of the game scenarios were very interesting. Blue Dragon had exactly the same problem; in that game, your characters were marooned in a strange country fairly early on and then spend the entire first disc (15 hours or so?) walking back home. Nothing happens the entire time except for a few dull dungeons.
Oh shit...a COLLECTION QUEST? That takes all of 2 minutes? And a MINIGAME?
What madness is this?
Really I'm not flaming you, but you're really nitpicking. What you complained about is all of 20 minutes of the game at most, and I'm referring to that whole section, not the collecting.
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Oh shit...a COLLECTION QUEST? That takes all of 2 minutes? And a MINIGAME?
What madness is this?
Well I really did think that a lot of sections in the first disc after the exposition and the dungeon at Grand Staff were pretty dull. The long bit where your heroes are marooned and coincidentally running into what would eventually become the rest of your party is really not very much fun at all. Incidentally that happens to be the entire first disc. And regardless of how long a crappy scenario (stick collecting) is or isn't, it's still a crappy scene.
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Oh shit...a COLLECTION QUEST? That takes all of 2 minutes? And a MINIGAME?
What madness is this?
Really I'm not flaming you, but you're really nitpicking. What you complained about is all of 20 minutes of the game at most, and I'm referring to that whole section, not the collecting.
The point isn't that it took x amount of time, the point is that it contributes absolutely nothing to the game. It doesn't push forward the story, it doesn't develop the characters, it does nothing interesting.
It's padding.
Have you completed this game? Because that's like stuff off disc one, so you've hardly played through the game.
Yeah because 15 hours of my time is HARDLY PLAYING THE GAME.
And also, EVERY GAME is going to have fluff.
False.
I would think it would be a valid criticism to complain that it's an abuse of the medium or whatever, but since you can skip them and there's no essential information in them whatsoever, I don't really see that any criticisms are valid.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/kt/video/sky2.mov
This is what would've made the stories so much more entertaining. The images and sounds were good, too, but walls of text really don't work well.
And it's not a criticism, really. I'm not saying the game is terrible because of these scenes. I'm saying that there isn't much else interesting to the game that even these short stories, which is just screens of text, is holding my interest better than the rest of the game.
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they actually sorta do that already, the whole moving text.
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The point isn't that it took x amount of time, the point is that it contributes absolutely nothing to the game. It doesn't push forward the story, it doesn't develop the characters, it does nothing interesting.
It's padding.
Yeah because 15 hours of my time is HARDLY PLAYING THE GAME.
False.
Err...explain padding. I'll agree it's not a big contribution, but it's not a big downfall. Also, there IS a point of time. If they sent you on a collection quest scouring the world for an hour, that's a lot different than 2 minutes of stick collecting in two areas.
15 hours, yeah that's what I clocked for the first disc. Sure, that's a while but to my standards you should go through a whole game before you start judging it. It may be a bit hypocritical for me I guess as I haven't finished it yet, but I'm not judging it. You're judging the game based on some "fluff" (at least it seems that way)
Finally, name some games that have absolutely no fluff, no breaks in action (somewhat), no stalling points. Please.
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Say you're watching a movie. 15 minutes in, a static image of McDonalds fries appears. Not for very long, just 5 seconds. The image has no relevance whatsoever to the movie. It's just there.
That's bullshit. That shouldn't be there. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the movie is, it doesn't matter that the image was only there for 5 SECONDS - it doesn't stop the image from being superfluous and useless in the movie.
Does that make sense? I don't CARE how long a useless collection quest is if it doesn't contribute anything to a game. Granted, there are ways of making a collection quest provide some meaning to a game - acting as the reason for the player to go to a new location, to talk to somebody, etc.
But the quest here doesn't do anything. You're staying in the same area that you've just been in, and you're running around the environment COLLECTING STICKS.
ANTIHERO WHO LIVED FOR A THOUSAND YEARS IS COLLECTING STICKS.
I sure as hell can call the game out for having bullshit like that. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is, this specific instance is still retarded.
Edit: You're misinterpreting my definition of fluff. Games don't have to be action-paced all the time. Lulls in the action aren't FLUFF if they serve some other purpose in the game - developing plot, acting as transitions, whatever. FLUFF is extraneous stuff that doesn't contribute to the game at all and should be removed, just like useless scenes in a film, useless chapters in a book, etc.