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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: AdderallApocalypse on February 14, 2008, 11:48:51 pm

Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: AdderallApocalypse on February 14, 2008, 11:48:51 pm
Wow, at it again. This is terrible news about another school shooting at a university in Northern Illinois. He shot 17 people before killing himself. What do my fellow GWers think about this and related shootings? Let's just hope that Jack Thompson doesn't come into this for any reason. *shivers*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_re_us/niu_shooting (http://University Shooting)

Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Jeff on February 14, 2008, 11:54:31 pm
Do they know why, yet?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: something bizarre and impractical on February 14, 2008, 11:55:26 pm
This is why I won't go to university. All you school-goers are whackjobs.

This is pretty terrible, and I'd like to hear the thoughts of people who are in university/college. Do you feel afraid that something like this could happen at your college? Also, I'm wondering if anyone has a timeline of school shootings in North America since the time of Columbine. Is the frequency increasing? Or just being reported more? Is there some kind of chain reaction in our cultural consciousness going on here?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Avatar on February 14, 2008, 11:56:02 pm
Quote
et's just hope that Jack Thompson doesn't come into this for any reason. *shivers*
Chances are he will make a comment about it before anything is even known about the shooter(Like the last major shooting)
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Jeff on February 14, 2008, 11:57:40 pm
This is why I won't go to university. All you school-goers are whackjobs.
Here at UCF there is a rather large student movement pressing the administration to allow students to carry handguns on campus so that if this happens the students can gun down the attacker and prevent further injury. And I do mean large. That should tell you how serious this is on most campuses.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: AdderallApocalypse on February 14, 2008, 11:59:50 pm
Do they know why, yet?
I'm not sure. Probably some sort of mental sickness and/or personal vendetta.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Taylor Kaz on February 15, 2008, 12:01:16 am
handguns?  they should allow them to have assault rifles, if hundreds of people had them, we'd all feel really safe.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: ase on February 15, 2008, 12:01:50 am
I really fucking hate the media

At the press conference, all the questions were about the shooter (WHAT CLOTHES WAS HE WEARING........w..what... GOTH>>>>????) and no reporter cares to ask about the people killed.


P.S. news just said gunman was not a student? can anyone confirm
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Jeff on February 15, 2008, 12:09:06 am
handguns?  they should allow them to have assault rifles, if hundreds of people had them, we'd all feel really safe.
Well that is kind of the concept. They say that if the university allowed students to carry handguns that people would think twice before trying to shoot up the campus. The big argument is that that would increase the likelihood of a student using a gun, but the proponents argue that people who are intent on starting school shootings would be able to get guns anyway, so allowing people to carry guns would not increase the likelihood. At the last debate about this I argued that many people who participate in school shootings kill themselves anyway so the pain of death would not deter them, but I did not get a particularly logical reply back.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Death Gulp on February 15, 2008, 12:10:06 am
Holy shit, I really dont know what to say. I havent heard anything about this on the news yet, but im sure i will once i turn on the tv later...
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Shepperd on February 15, 2008, 12:22:13 am
USA fucked up when it decided to legalise the use of personal guns in public areas


catslacks said: "I'd like to hear the thoughts of people who are in university/college. Do you feel afraid that something like this could happen at your college?"

Nope, this hardly ever happened in argentina.
There has been some pretty rare case of public school kid shooting but never as dramatic.
Well look at that huh. Argentina surely has a higher crime rate than USA but our unis are very safe in weapons.
Because WE CANNOT CARRY WEAPONS. WHAT A BRILLIANT IDEA FUCK.
Probably also because we have a more affectous relation with our families. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but we are very attached to our parents and relatives, the average of affection is higher than what I seem to percieve from non-latin countries.
Meaning our mean of support on our backs is higher and thus risks of mental illness, personal rage and such can be better controlled.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Bill Murray on February 15, 2008, 12:31:50 am
Here at UCF there is a rather large student movement pressing the administration to allow students to carry handguns on campus so that if this happens the students can gun down the attacker and prevent further injury. And I do mean large. That should tell you how serious this is on most campuses.
That's just fucking stupid. Although it would mean people would have something to defend themselves with in such a moment, the amount of shootings would just rise (note, not mass-shootings, single events etc).
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Mama Luigi on February 15, 2008, 12:35:17 am
I don't want to derail this thread but it was brought up so here goes my 2 cents regarding handguns permissible in school: hell no... please hell no.

I can easily envision a scenario where a hostile student ("bad guy") murders someone in a crowded area, someone takes him out, but there's a rush of confusion from the people who did not see the original murder and they shoot the student who killed the "bad guy". I can also envision smaller fights resulting with much more fatal consequences.

However, this is all assuming EVERYONE in the school had a gun. If it was like 1 in 20 or something that carried a handgun... well... then maybe things wouldn't get so out of control because it might be easier to identify the "bad guy". However, I think adding more guns to the mix would result in far more problems.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Lyndon on February 15, 2008, 12:38:29 am
there have been a few stabbings recently at my university (UK), but they don't appear to be random, more like gang warfare shit. I'm just happy that it's pretty rare to see a real gun in UK
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Cheesy Doritos on February 15, 2008, 12:45:30 am
Although this is very sad, i'm at least happy no one died. However, the other shootings mentioned at the bottom of the article are just as bad, if not worse. One 15-year-old was shot and declared brain dead? I'm just... Speechless. How could anybody do that to another human being?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Dale Gobbler on February 15, 2008, 12:46:39 am
There's no way we could have a school shooting. I'm currently going to a local community college, and after the Virginia Tech shooting, we had some kind of role playing scenario that messed up everyones class schedules. We had High school kids coming into the school and sitting their pretending to be dead, while like all the police in the city showed up and told everyone to get inside a classroom. Me and my friends just chilled in an empty room till they came in an told us to go outside. Then we went to class and chilled, because it was practically cancelled.

Oh, get this, did I mention that we had people role playing as terrorists?! We had the freaking Swat team come to our floor and line up outside the door to the terrace outside. One of the terrorists was hiding in a room outside and were killing Cops and Swat team members. This went on for a while until everyone realised the drill was pointless the terrorists all "died".
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Taylor Kaz on February 15, 2008, 12:53:04 am
usually this happens when the student feels at least mentally isolated, sometimes physically, but really the ones to worry about are those who are less connected with whats going on around them.  This is a theory to explain why there are more suicides in rural areas than not.  If someone is able to dehumanize the people in a society, it becomes a lot easier to kill them because in their eyes, they're something less of a human.  It's always hard to predict this type of crap happening, because anything can trigger this mentality.  I believe the best thing to do is provide some sort of psychological support group for students, not handguns.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: ase on February 15, 2008, 12:59:54 am
There's no way we could have a school shooting. I'm currently going to a local community college, and after the Virginia Tech shooting, we had some kind of role playing scenario that messed up everyones class schedules. We had High school kids coming into the school and sitting their pretending to be dead, while like all the police in the city showed up and told everyone to get inside a classroom. Me and my friends just chilled in an empty room till they came in an told us to go outside. Then we went to class and chilled, because it was practically cancelled.

Oh, get this, did I mention that we had people role playing as terrorists?! We had the freaking Swat team come to our floor and line up outside the door to the terrace outside. One of the terrorists was hiding in a room outside and were killing Cops and Swat team members. This went on for a while until everyone realised the drill was pointless the terrorists all "died".
right theres no way this could happen at your school because you staged a fake shooting and now everyone is safe
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Shadow Kirby on February 15, 2008, 01:02:48 am

This is pretty terrible, and I'd like to hear the thoughts of people who are in university/college. Do you feel afraid that something like this could happen at your college? Also, I'm wondering if anyone has a timeline of school shootings in North America since the time of Columbine. Is the frequency increasing? Or just being reported more? Is there some kind of chain reaction in our cultural consciousness going on here?



I feel pretty safe up here in Canada. I can only remember 3 school shooting here in Quebec and one of them wasn't really a school shooting.

And we don't have that fucked up relationship with guns that you have in the USA. I mean, with what Jeff said, you just cannot deny that there is a problem.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Dale Gobbler on February 15, 2008, 01:05:22 am
right theres no way this could happen at your school because you staged a fake shooting and now everyone is safe

Exactly. That's what the higher-ups think anyway. I should've added [sarcasm] tags on my first line of the post.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Standard Toaster on February 15, 2008, 01:21:31 am
usually this happens when the student feels at least mentally isolated, sometimes physically, but really the ones to worry about are those who are less connected with whats going on around them.  This is a theory to explain why there are more suicides in rural areas than not.  If someone is able to dehumanize the people in a society, it becomes a lot easier to kill them because in their eyes, they're something less of a human.  It's always hard to predict this type of crap happening, because anything can trigger this mentality.  I believe the best thing to do is provide some sort of psychological support group for students, not handguns.
That doesn't really make sense. Dehumanization is the result of severe trauma, not just a disconnect from society. Just LIVING IN RURAL AREA doesn't make people more likely to dehumanize/be dehumanized. Not just anything can trigger a complete disconnect from reality (ie a psychotic break) in anyone, it happens specifically to those who are mentally ill, and with the most common psychotic breaks resulting from schizophrenia (iirc) the symptoms should develop a few days/weeks prior to the break and it should be able to be prevented.

The REAL ones you have to worry about are people afflicted with anti-social personality disorder, which is just the fancy word for psychopath or sociopath (although these people are usually older). They can seem like perfectly normal, and even appealing people, but one day they could just burst in shooting, and no one would expect it.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: RPGoddess on February 15, 2008, 02:01:12 am
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-te.to.browning09feb09,0,1074183.story

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-bodies0203,0,6317131.story

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-browning0211,0,3599091.story

Pin that one on dehumanization and disconnect, dude. 
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Ratt on February 15, 2008, 02:15:04 am
Not to sound like a dick...but I was wondering when we were gonna have the next school shooting. Since the media forgot about VT it was time we bring back the issue for a small period of time....just enough time to forget it again.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: RPGoddess on February 15, 2008, 02:18:16 am
But darling, if you know you're going to sound like a dick, why say anything at all?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Dale Gobbler on February 15, 2008, 02:21:42 am
We can't dwell on every little thing many months after they happen.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Bobberticus on February 15, 2008, 02:26:43 am
Here at UCF there is a rather large student movement pressing the administration to allow students to carry handguns on campus so that if this happens the students can gun down the attacker and prevent further injury. And I do mean large. That should tell you how serious this is on most campuses.
This troubles me.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Marcus on February 15, 2008, 03:12:43 am
Quote
This troubles me.

Why?  It's not like being armed with a gun instantly turns you into a psychopath.

Fun fact, the brain has an inhibitor that causes immense emotional trauma when another life is taken.  Only a natural instinct such as survival can overcome this inhibitor.

In other words, the average dumb college student can not and will not pull the trigger unless they feel their life is threatened.  If anything, violence would go down.

But no guns = higher crime*

*based on irefutible scientific study done about 100 years ago.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Shepperd on February 15, 2008, 03:15:44 am
You're from the navy you're obviously biased and scientific evidence 100 years ago doesnt mean it is valid nowadays, specially when we're dealing with social sciences
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Doktormartini on February 15, 2008, 03:45:45 am
I don't live too far from this school :(

This is sad...I hate to hear when this stuff happens.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: DDay on February 15, 2008, 03:57:51 am
The world today thinks it's cool to go on a killing spree in a school.

Seems like every year This form of violence has been getting more popular. There needs to be a name for this Phenomenon
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Marcus on February 15, 2008, 04:02:16 am
Quote
There needs to be a name for this Phenomenon

Insanity?

Let's all hop on the insane bandwagon!
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: DDay on February 15, 2008, 04:08:36 am
Insanity?

Let's all hop on the insane bandwagon!

I meant a nick name for school shoting.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: PTizzle on February 15, 2008, 04:34:51 am
Here at UCF there is a rather large student movement pressing the administration to allow students to carry handguns on campus so that if this happens the students can gun down the attacker and prevent further injury. And I do mean large. That should tell you how serious this is on most campuses.

Honestly, I'm starting to feel this is the right thing to do. It's just getting ridiculous - and surely the thought of fellow classmates carrying handguns will stop any of your ssj_darksephiroth types from pulling a gun and blasting people for a completely unworthy reason.


That's just fucking stupid. Although it would mean people would have something to defend themselves with in such a moment, the amount of shootings would just rise (note, not mass-shootings, single events etc).


Although I do believe this is also valid, and Epic Hero's confusion scenario is also a bit worrying (and very valid). I think the proper solution would be to have certain licensed gun carriers who are unknown to the general student body. I mean, it's not perfect, but surely it's better than nothing.

I feel pretty safe up here in Canada. I can only remember 3 school shooting here in Quebec and one of them wasn't really a school shooting.

And we don't have that fucked up relationship with guns that you have in the USA. I mean, with what Jeff said, you just cannot deny that there is a problem.




It's pretty good here as well (Melbourne). There's been isolated incidents, and one a couple years ago where a kid shot two other people (assumedly a personal thing, not a random thing), but nothing serious.


This is just incredibly worrying though. The frequency has definitely been up as of late, and it's getting to the stage where any wackjob (whether they be from inside the school or out) could forseeably take a gun into a campus and cause considerable damage - if not physically then at least emotionally. Something definitely has to be done.



EDIT: Off MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567/

"NBC News and MSNBC
updated 10:22 p.m. ET Feb. 14, 2008

DEKALB, Ill. - A former graduate student armed with two handguns and a shotgun opened fire Thursday in a large lecture hall on the campus of Northern Illinois University, killing five students and wounding 16 others before killing himself, authorities said. "
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: bonzi_buddy on February 15, 2008, 07:06:59 am
:words:
That dehumanization isn't complete bullshit. The guy who did our schoolshooting had pretty much reasoned his shooting with some loosely quoted NIETCHZE (like Hitler, you know?) mixed with some other stupid philosophies. He thought everybody else are lower people and that he is some better one, with the responsibility to do humanity a favour and kill as many as possible etc.
Althrough... i always thought the "manifest" looked cheap. Like that he figured out some excuse to shoot people with the little knowledge he had from his philosophy 1 -course.  :fogetmmh:

He was a looney, yes, but he seemed to be complete normal (to everyone; yes from the outside) before the shooting.
Quote
ptizzle
Well, i'm not so sure whether any licenced gun legalization would be too much of use, unless you had some ungodly effective bureacracy system to make it work and that's just unrealistic.
Since you guys have this hilarious gun legalization - thing... i think the school's general infrastructure itself needs alterring. I mean, you would need to change the system to prevent threats from the inside, you know? The schools have been designed to be safe from outer attacks and fires and whatnot, but these shootings are complete different thing.
I have no idea how to pull this out but goddamn, i think this is somewhat a necessity since the guns are so common thing there!

I meant a nick nam-
- No.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: dada on February 15, 2008, 07:10:56 am
But no guns = higher crime*

*based on irefutible scientific study done about 100 years ago.
Are you kidding me?

It's true that disallowing handguns causes an immediate crime spike in the U.S. (this has been tested several times before) but that's because it's really your culture that needs to change badly.

(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/Picture%202_12.png)
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Carrion Crow on February 15, 2008, 10:01:53 am
You'd think they would've outlawed guns by now if they had any sense. I'm not a patriot but damn am I glad firearms are illegal in the UK. All this because of people are unwilling to give up their guns that "protect" them. WHO'S THE CLOWN?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Frankie on February 15, 2008, 12:15:30 pm
Angry Black Man's post seemed like a joke to me (because of the 100 YEARS AGO part), why are people arguing against it

In any case, even though I understand the argument that everyone wearing firearms would dissuade many people from doing shootings, I ultimately don't agree with it.
Having many firearms readily available would make non-premeditated shootings more likely. Imagine some guy whose all pissed and mentally unstable, and suddenly has an urge to kill someone (for instance, hes being bullied, or at least thinks he is)... and just happens to have a gun on him.
Sure, maybe he wont be able to do as much damage, since others around him will have means of defending themselves, but the shootings are likely to become much more frequent. On the other hand, with firearms harder to come by, someone who gets murderous urges will not be able to carry them out immediately, and will need to take the time to acquire a weapon. There are good chances he ends up changing his mind, rejecting the murderous urge as some weird phantasm of the moment.

Also, if everyone were to have firearms, guns would no longer be an unusual and alarming sight. Someone who shows up at a college with a handgun, with the intent on using it on students, will not look menacing or dangerous at all until he actually shoots someone (since everyone has guns anyways). On the other hand, with weapons not admitted on school grounds, someone who has one is immediately suspicious. Thats not a particularly strong point in my opinion, but it still cant be ignored.

A solution could be, armed security presence at schools. I know most colleges already have a security team, but usually they're unarmed, and their job is simply to call the cops when something happens. Give them gun's! This way there are people who can intervene immediately, the dissuasion effect of people being there and armed still works (though it is admittedly less intense than if EVERYONE had guns), and it doesn't share the disadvantages of the "give everyone guns" idea.

tl;dr:
1.If all students have firearms, it makes non-premeditated shootings more likely
2.If all students have firearms, it makes firearms a less unusual sight, and people who show up with the intent of using them on students wont actually look dangerous until they shoot someone.
3.Instead get armed security at schools.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Vellfire on February 15, 2008, 01:54:05 pm
There's one HUGE flaw with you guys that are defending the "if we all carry guns the shooter will think twice" idea:  THE SHOOTER IS INSANE.  Almost all of these shooters killed themselves at the end, why the fuck would they be worried about being shot by someone?  It's not going to make them think twice if they're already planning on dying.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: kentona on February 15, 2008, 03:05:15 pm
Well that is kind of the concept. They say that if the university allowed students to carry handguns that people would think twice before trying to shoot up the campus. The big argument is that that would increase the likelihood of a student using a gun, but the proponents argue that people who are intent on starting school shootings would be able to get guns anyway, so allowing people to carry guns would not increase the likelihood. At the last debate about this I argued that many people who participate in school shootings kill themselves anyway so the pain of death would not deter them, but I did not get a particularly logical reply back.
Serious?  You think a guy who shot and killed himself after the shooting would think twice about it if other people had guns?  Really?

In all likelyhood, more people would get hurt.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: the_bub_from_the_pit on February 15, 2008, 03:39:09 pm
Not sure if this is real or not...but the incident took place at around 3PM and this was posted at 12 PM... (I'm hoping it's a time difference thing):

Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Shadow Kirby on February 15, 2008, 03:57:56 pm
Not sure if this is real or not...but the incident took place at around 3PM and this was posted at 12 PM... (I'm hoping it's a time difference thing):


Disturbing.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Frankie on February 15, 2008, 04:26:23 pm
I thought I read the guy used a shotgun? Thats defenitly not a shotgun on that pic.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Jeff on February 15, 2008, 04:48:52 pm
Serious?  You think a guy who shot and killed himself after the shooting would think twice about it if other people had guns?  Really?

In all likelyhood, more people would get hurt.
I'm kind of amazed you quoted a post you didn't read all the way through because I said "At the last debate about this I argued that many people who participate in school shootings kill themselves anyway so the pain of death would not deter them".
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Dreaded on February 15, 2008, 04:51:05 pm
I actually go to NIU, a guy I know got shot, he's the male that's still in critical condition at Rockford memorial hospital. Sucks.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: ase on February 15, 2008, 05:21:01 pm
I actually go to NIU, a guy I know got shot, he's the male that's still in critical condition at Rockford memorial hospital. Sucks.
That's horrible! I'm sorry to hear about your friend. How are you dealing with things so far?

Also, I really hope that 4chan thing is fake. If it turns out to be true, there's going to be a huge movement toward monitoring website activity and taking each and every claim as true. There's probably hundreds of kids on popular sites every day like MySpace, Facebook, and 4chan who say shit like IM GONNA KILL PEOPLE
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: JoshAP2007 on February 15, 2008, 05:21:36 pm
They need to have airport-like security at campuses. Annoying? Maybe. Effective? Yes. Would you rather be annoyed than dead? I thought so. However inconvenient, they need to close off all entrances to the campus and have only a few main entrances where they can monitor and check everyone that enters and leaves. That would include checking and verifying their IDs and putting their bags and themselves through metal detectors. There will also be a few police officers monitoring this procedure, so if a situation was to arise, it would be dealt with quickly. It would greatly change the way campuses operate, but drastic times calls for drastic measures. If you have that many people in one area and anyone is free to walk in and out, people are going to keep getting shot. It's not unlikely that the next one might be you.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on February 15, 2008, 05:25:42 pm
Quote
They need to have airport-like security at campuses. Annoying? Maybe. Effective? Yes.

impossible to implement without skyrocketing tuitions or other such problems such as the fact that a campus tends to have multiple entrances and wideopen spaces and students outside the university with access to firearms? yes.

Quote
It's not unlikely that the next one might be you.

it's definitely unlikely. do you know how probabilities work? being killed in a school shooting is way up on the list of unlikeliness.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Dale Gobbler on February 15, 2008, 05:30:39 pm
Heh. One of my friends brought a bag of loaded bullets to school (he's not psycho, just an idiot) and threw a couple of them against the wall. Luckily none of them went off. One of the staff walked by and picked up one of the bullets and handed it back to him.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: JoshAP2007 on February 15, 2008, 05:36:00 pm
Quote
it's definitely unlikely. do you know how probabilities work? being killed in a school shooting is way up on the list of unlikeliness.
Yeah, right. Want to tell that to the people that got shot? I bet they thought it was unlikely too. Any loner around you could snap at any minute and shoot up the school.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: GirlBones on February 15, 2008, 05:57:48 pm
On the topic of gun control:

I hope this doesn't come off as some sort of forced or fake altruism, but I am always a little dismayed at how readily people seem to be willing to kill another person. Part of living in this world is that bad things can and do happen, whether caused by humans or not, but I don't think that fact alone justifies killing in self defense. What is particularly baffling to me, is the segment of the population that follows an Abrahamic religion, yet still favors the use of guns in self defense, regardless of the idea that God says don't kill.

Sometimes I wonder, though.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: HL on February 15, 2008, 06:43:18 pm
That's horrible! I'm sorry to hear about your friend. How are you dealing with things so far?

Also, I really hope that 4chan thing is fake. If it turns out to be true, there's going to be a huge movement toward monitoring website activity and taking each and every claim as true. There's probably hundreds of kids on popular sites every day like MySpace, Facebook, and 4chan who say shit like IM GONNA KILL PEOPLE

Nah man, its happened so many times before, a couple weeks ago some guy on GameFAQs said he was going to burn a church down, and did it, and there was something on 4chan of a previous killing (i think VT? maybe another one...), etc.

It just gives the site a bit of publicity, bad or good.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on February 15, 2008, 06:53:37 pm
Yeah, right. Want to tell that to the people that got shot? I bet they thought it was unlikely too. Any loner around you could snap at any minute and shoot up the school.

holy fuck you retard if someone is below the margin of error as far as possible deaths go, it's incredibly unlikely. THAT IS WHAT UNLIKELY MEANS, IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. the people who got shot know this, that is kind of why it is tragic and horrible.

whoa guys 9/11 happened dont work in office buildings.
whoa guys steve irwin got stingrayed dont go in the ocean.
whoa guys on house this one lady died because the wood in her house was infections dont go near trees.
whoa this girl on the internet died when her computer exploded I'm signing off forever.

it's incredibly unlikely and this shit about "oh we need to put up AIRPORT SECURITY MEASURES" is hilarious. yes because crime exists we should install a police state for walking through a campus.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Mince Wobley on February 15, 2008, 06:58:55 pm
I hope nobody dies because of that.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: JoshAP2007 on February 15, 2008, 08:09:54 pm
holy fuck you retard if someone is below the margin of error as far as possible deaths go, it's incredibly unlikely. THAT IS WHAT UNLIKELY MEANS, IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. the people who got shot know this, that is kind of why it is tragic and horrible.

whoa guys 9/11 happened dont work in office buildings.
whoa guys steve irwin got stingrayed dont go in the ocean.
whoa guys on house this one lady died because the wood in her house was infections dont go near trees.
whoa this girl on the internet died when her computer exploded I'm signing off forever.

it's incredibly unlikely and this shit about "oh we need to put up AIRPORT SECURITY MEASURES" is hilarious. yes because crime exists we should install a police state for walking through a campus.
Yeah, whatever you fucktard. You'll see what I mean when another school shooting similar to this one happens a month from now. When you have a large gathering of people in one area, you're going to need suitable security, otherwise they are just one big target for a possible shooter. If you don't understand that, then you are seriously a faggot (name calling is fun, isn't it?).  Maybe not airport security, but at least the same level that stadiums have.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on February 15, 2008, 08:29:17 pm
Yeah, whatever you fucktard. You'll see what I mean when another school shooting similar to this one happens a month from now. When you have a large gathering of people in one area, you're going to need suitable security, otherwise they are just one big target for a possible shooter. If you don't understand that, then you are seriously a faggot (name calling is fun, isn't it?).  Maybe not airport security, but at least the same level that stadiums have.

STADIUMS.

do you not see the difference between monitoring a single area slightly larger the size of a football field with high vantage points and an area the size of your average college (some of which actually have football fields as a very small part of them)?

school shootings are incredibly unlikely. that's the whole fucking point. five school shootings occurred in 2007 (five also occurred in 1997 btw, so it's not like there's this sudden magical increase). FIVE.

FIVE.

new york city alone has 1,200 public schools. hell, let's err INCREDIBLY SMALL and say there are only 100,000 schools (elementary, high, college) in the US. 5 attacks would make .005% of schools susceptible to attack per year.

do I need to explain basic statistics here? it's not likely this will happen TO YOU!!! IN YOUR SCHOOL!!! is there a chance it will happen, of course. there's a chance anything can happen. but of those five killings, three of the five had 5 or less fatalities. one was just a student shooting one person in a high school.

oh and those five weren't from the US alone.

no, it is not likely that security needs to be beefed up on schools because there is an incredibly small, not growing, statistically slim chance of this stuff happening again. for every school shooting you hear about, you don't hear about the hundreds that were stopped.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on February 15, 2008, 08:36:01 pm
my university, NC State, is "2,110 acres on the Raleigh Campus, plus more than 101,000 acres in research and extension farms, forests and facilities throughout the state."

the Carolina Panthers Stadium is 33 acres.

tell me how similar security measures can be put in place on a university with multiple entrances and buildings as would be in a stadium without skyrocketing tuition or some other equally ridiculous measure.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: BlizzardVeers on February 15, 2008, 08:51:42 pm
This shit again?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: BlizzardVeers on February 15, 2008, 09:00:18 pm
Also, the more and more security we want. The more the government is going to give us. In getting security from the government in that regard, we start to become a police state where 'security' is more of a priority than the rights of the citizens. I just have to shake my head in wonderment about why these things continually happen, and why people keep snapping.

Where is the failure?
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Eternaldragoon on February 15, 2008, 09:01:51 pm
Sad thing is like 20 of my friends go to this college, they're all shakin up, its bs, people are fucked up.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: dark_crystalis on February 15, 2008, 10:08:59 pm
Yeah, whatever you fucktard. You'll see what I mean when another school shooting similar to this one happens a month from now. When you have a large gathering of people in one area, you're going to need suitable security, otherwise they are just one big target for a possible shooter. If you don't understand that, then you are seriously a faggot (name calling is fun, isn't it?).  Maybe not airport security, but at least the same level that stadiums have.
I think you might want to go back and complete your statistics part of your 7th grade math class dude. Like the other guy said, 5 in a year. The media is just really hyping it. Yes it's sad and such but IT HAPPENS. Hell I go to Dawson College, I know a lot of people that were right there when Kim Ver Gill came in, they didn't get shot. Although one girl did they get, it doesn't mean there's a lot of chances of this happening to you. You might want to log off your computer because computers can explore or maybe a plane can crash on your house, run run away! Run to the hills, run for your life (sorry I'm listening to that song...)
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Taylor Kaz on February 15, 2008, 10:39:06 pm
That doesn't really make sense. Dehumanization is the result of severe trauma, not just a disconnect from society. Just LIVING IN RURAL AREA doesn't make people more likely to dehumanize/be dehumanized. Not just anything can trigger a complete disconnect from reality (ie a psychotic break) in anyone, it happens specifically to those who are mentally ill, and with the most common psychotic breaks resulting from schizophrenia (iirc) the symptoms should develop a few days/weeks prior to the break and it should be able to be prevented.

The REAL ones you have to worry about are people afflicted with anti-social personality disorder, which is just the fancy word for psychopath or sociopath (although these people are usually older). They can seem like perfectly normal, and even appealing people, but one day they could just burst in shooting, and no one would expect it.

No you would have had to read more carefully, so maybe that's my fault.  Let me make this clearer.  Those in a rural area are more apt to commit suicide.  Just take a look at suicide rates across the United States.  

Let me make the connection between psychological isolation and dehumanization.  Rarely, people choose to be isolated without some social mores influencing them in some way.  To be outcasted is going to create an isolation, because those who do not follow the social norms are thrown into "prison" by the "norm police"  It's also going to create an uncomfortable feeling in the isolated individual, a feeling that they're less than human (or at least the people who do not accept the individual into their culture, subculture or whatever).  That individual's feeling can foster into a personality disorder such as anti-social personality disorder, if you like the DSM-IV, you'll know that roughly 75% of all inmates have been diagnosed with this.  Basically, they're not in prison because they have a mental disorder, they have been labelled with ASPD because they're in prison, a characteristic of the disorder is that they've been in trouble with the law.  Also it is important to remember that it can happen to anyone.  You're not born with a personality disorder, and it's not exclusive to certain individuals, could be males, females, white, black, poor, rich.  

There are a lot of things that can cause someone to break.  One of those things is when people hold onto their resentment.  That's what causes drug addicts to use, and it certainly cause one to partake in other destructive behavior.  If school shootings were easy to predict, and prevent, there would never be one.  The fact is, they're not as predictable as we think they are.  Just because you can point out tell tale signs in postidiction, doesn't mean you can find them before the incident occurred.  

Think about it, the likelihood of this happening is slim, and you cant blame someone for a shooting before they do it.  You can only TRY to get them help, but many times they're feelings are under the radar, and there's not much you can do to stop something like this from happening.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: The Ghost on February 15, 2008, 11:14:09 pm
Just my two cents, you don't have to read if you don't want to  :fogetsmile:​.

Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: JoshAP2007 on February 16, 2008, 04:06:59 am
Okay, I was wrong. My apologies.

=(

But something needs to be done. I'm just concerned about the safety of the students.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Andy on February 16, 2008, 04:17:22 am
My brother goes there. This shit is terrifying.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Vellfire on February 16, 2008, 01:41:45 pm
my university, NC State, is "2,110 acres on the Raleigh Campus, plus more than 101,000 acres in research and extension farms, forests and facilities throughout the state."

the Carolina Panthers Stadium is 33 acres.

tell me how similar security measures can be put in place on a university with multiple entrances and buildings as would be in a stadium without skyrocketing tuition or some other equally ridiculous measure.

This is absolutely true.

Let me just say that I live on a FUCKING TINY campus and there is STILL no way to secure every entrance into it.  I am talking about a place where (unless you're an athlete and have to walk all of one block to the athletic fields) in your normal day you will probably only cross one pretty small street.  You may cross it quite a few times, but basically every building you'd be in is either on THIS side of the street or THAT side of the street.  Even still, there is absolutely no way to block off this entire area because there are so many doors to enter every building and waaaay too many ways to get on the campus itself.  The kind of security people are wanting after things like this are not possible.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: dark_crystalis on February 16, 2008, 04:33:38 pm
This is absolutely true.

Let me just say that I live on a FUCKING TINY campus and there is STILL no way to secure every entrance into it.  I am talking about a place where (unless you're an athlete and have to walk all of one block to the athletic fields) in your normal day you will probably only cross one pretty small street.  You may cross it quite a few times, but basically every building you'd be in is either on THIS side of the street or THAT side of the street.  Even still, there is absolutely no way to block off this entire area because there are so many doors to enter every building and waaaay too many ways to get on the campus itself.  The kind of security people are wanting after things like this are not possible.
Plus reducing the number of entrances would be pretty stupid in case of an emergency such as a fire etc, it limits the exits. Hell, I'm just in a cegep and it's pretty frickin' huge even though it only takes one block (which is considerably smaller than most university campuses in the US.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: dada on February 16, 2008, 04:39:08 pm
Yeah, right. Want to tell that to the people that got shot? I bet they thought it was unlikely too. Any loner around you could snap at any minute and shoot up the school.
There's a bigger chance you'll die as a result of a coconut falling on your head.

Officially.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: aboutasoandthis on February 18, 2008, 05:40:55 pm
I live close to this school, and the story's pretty big around here.

From what I've heard, the guy was actually a normal person who was skipping his medication. He was actually a "celebrated student" whatever that means. I think he was already a grad student aiming to become a lawyer.

As to the subject of gun control, I had to do a paper on it, and now I believe the Constitution should drop the Second Amendment. There is enough evidence to show that gun crime itself will disappear, and that violent crime overall will drop by a significant amount. The US had 9 guns for every 10 people inside the country right now. That's insane.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: bonzi_buddy on February 18, 2008, 06:02:19 pm
From what I've heard, the guy was actually a normal person who was skipping his medication. He was actually a "celebrated student" whatever that means. I think he was already a grad student aiming to become a lawyer.
Interesting. On a note, the shooter here also skipped his depression medication around that time when he did it.
Yikes. The correlation is disturbing.

Sorry for bringing this shooter @ finland thing again and again but hey that's the biggest, sole shooting ever happened here  :fogetbackflip:
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Standard Toaster on February 18, 2008, 06:06:51 pm
That individual's feeling can foster into a personality disorder such as anti-social personality disorder, if you like the DSM-IV, you'll know that roughly 75% of all inmates have been diagnosed with this.  Basically, they're not in prison because they have a mental disorder, they have been labelled with ASPD because they're in prison, a characteristic of the disorder is that they've been in trouble with the law.  Also it is important to remember that it can happen to anyone.  You're not born with a personality disorder, and it's not exclusive to certain individuals, could be males, females, white, black, poor, rich. 
Thats just not true dude. I think you are getting mixed up with antisocial anxiety disorder, which is much more common and follows what you're saying more closely. APD is only diagnosed to 3% of all males and 1% of all females, which is most definitely not 75% of all inmates. Besides this, APD can happen one of two ways: birth (psychopath) or severe traumatic experiences (sociopath). So yea, people CAN and ARE born with personality disorders. And by severe traumatic experiences I don't just mean like LOL ISOLATION, I mean like multiple rapes, beatings, torture, witnessing massacre, etc. Also inmates are unlikely to get a diagnosis of APD because most people who have it are in high-security mental institutions.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Taylor Kaz on February 19, 2008, 04:37:36 pm
i understand this is a forum and arguing can be like crack to some people, but you dont need to cherry pick things that i'm saying just so you can always be right.  You know enough to be skeptical, but you can also be willing to learn something.  I do actually read, i have come across in the dsm that it is likely that up to 75% of inmates in penetentiaries have the disorder.  you can also draw your own conclusions with some skepticism on that count, but the research is out there.

And nothing you are saying is actual proof of what you're telling me, that I'm wrong.  you're basically just saying NO WRONG, but as you must know, Personality disorders can only be diagnosed upon entering adulthood, ie; age 18.  That is because unlike Freud, modern psychologists believe that a personality has not solidified until after adolescence.  Diagnosing a 5 year old with aspd would get you your job taken away, even if they have had some failure in conforming to social norms with respect to lawful obligations.  Why?  because not all children that have conduct disorder or oppositional defiant disorder with grow up to have aspd.  ODD and conduct disorder being the likely precursors of Aspd.
I'm sorry, but with the whole nature vs. nurture thing, i know you're trying to say you can be born with it, but until you show me the gene that makes one deviate from social norms, you can't say you're born into it.  You see the thing about social norms is that they're learned.  That is one thing i will never attribute to being genetic.

Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: xanque on February 19, 2008, 04:50:59 pm
The reason the media blows this shit up is because it so RARELY happens.  If we had terrorist attacks in the US on a daily basis, we wouldn't have even heard of the September 11, 2001 attacks unless we were paying close attention. 

Not just "any loner" you pass by is capable of shooting up a school.  That loner needs a gun, but even more importantly, needs a lack of conscience to pull the trigger.  Most of those loners probably aren't even thinking about the assholes, but trying to predict what's going to happen in the next Legacy of the Force novel, or how to manipulate nuclear energy on a small scale, or whatever. 

My dad once told me that he was worried I might be the kind of kid to shoot up my school.  I was a really quiet kid, but it was because I was so busy thinking geek thoughts.  Yeah, I got beat up and picked on, but then I'd go home and play violent video games to make myself feel better.
Title: Shooting spree Illinois University
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on February 19, 2008, 04:56:46 pm
Not sure if this is real or not...but the incident took place at around 3PM and this was posted at 12 PM... (I'm hoping it's a time difference thing):


It'd be too easy to photoshop... and it isn't nearly as cool as the youtube/ manifesto deal we had with another one of these shooters last year.