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General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Warlin on March 11, 2008, 04:50:22 am

Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Warlin on March 11, 2008, 04:50:22 am
Well folks, Metal Gear has come a very long way. Well, long enough anyways. Soon, MGS4 will be released for the public to love or hate. Theres enough games in the series to make it a pretty sturdy franchise, and a big enough fan base for it to have some killer schwag... Merchandise. Whatever. In any case, the games are confusing as fuck and love to leave loose ends but they're so damn good and dramatic that you don't really care. Like a good book or a drug, the games leave you on the edge looking for another dose... Most of the time. The man behind it all, Kojima, might just be as insane as his games but who really cares? Kojima's gifts to the world are another 32 hours wasted trying to put the pieces together. Time WELL wasted. I love the games and I've either beaten them and seen them beat over and over again.

Enough talk though, to the big question. Out of all of this jumbled mess of goodness, which is your favorite? If you don't like Metal Gear, fuck off. We don't like you either.

(If I missed any that you think are worth mentioning... just tell me to put them up there~)
Its a hard race between the second and the third Solid game, but I'm going to have to say Metal Gear Solid 2 for me.
Added VR Missions
Added Integral, not taking out VR
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: ThugTears666 on March 11, 2008, 05:08:17 am
Have you actually played and finished Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2? 


They are the greatest games ever so It's really really hard to decide. This series is really the only gaming series I can still get excited about.

MGS2 had the coolest story just a gay main character compared to snake.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: theHunter on March 11, 2008, 07:28:05 am
Metal Gear Acid 2 is my favorite.

Also, an English (subbed) video of 15 minutes of MGS4 gameplay just made its way onto Gametrailers.com and it looks REALLY good.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: thejackyl on March 11, 2008, 12:12:49 pm
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN remake of MGS1, iiirc)
it's the only one I've played, sadly I don't have a PS/P/2/3/

I really enjoyed it, but it's the only one I played...  I want to play the other's...
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: CorporateGreed on March 11, 2008, 12:34:05 pm
It's a very tough call between Metal Gear Solid and MGS 2. Since MGS 2
is the only one I actually finished (there were some problems with my pc
at the time I played MGS1), I have to go for MGS2.

It has a brilliant story, and I really couldn't be bothered by Raiden.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: UPRC on March 11, 2008, 12:45:30 pm
WHERE IS VR MISSIONS?

MGS is my favourite even though I've only played the first four games in the poll (and VR Missions).
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Kaworu on March 11, 2008, 01:07:41 pm
Metal gear Solid 2 was made to be a deliberately bad game to laugh at the fanboys, most notably the Solid Snake fanboys. It's ridiculous in every aspect and so over the top it makes Star Wars seem like a WW2 documentary. I shouldn't really be suprised that people still cannot grasp that and take it as a serious game... but people do, and I am suprised. I mean... vampires... rollerskating fat guys... a hillariously over the top plot and so much self-awareness... How the fuck can anybody take it seriously?
That being said the original MGS made some pretty solid criticisms about the stupidity of videogames (and most importantly the stupidity of gamers), and the fact that even after so long people aren't getting what it was made to do is somewhat hysterical. The original MGS has to get my vote. It's a great parody of both the spy genre and action movies, and rips gaming culture to shreds. One of the few comedy games that knew how to be comedy.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: The Dude on March 11, 2008, 01:20:36 pm
Really tough call. MGS3 and MGS Portable Ops are pretty equal; however the size and better controls in MGS3 give it the win.

MGS1 used to be my fave, but MGS3 reminded me of such a thrilling James Bond book that I delved into that world completely. I love that game and story... Portable Ops finished the tale, tying it directly into Metal Gear 1, which was just killer awesome. I especially liked Cunningham.

That's my two cents. For what's that's worth. I guess two cents...
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: thecatamites on March 11, 2008, 01:38:02 pm
MGS3... If only for the boss fight with The End.
Metal Gear Solid 2 lost me with the final hour or so... "It's a computer simulation! You never existed! You're a clone! Choose your destiny! The crazy invincible lady was neither crazy nor invincible! Listen to her recite emo poetry for two straight hours of gametime! He's your father! He killed your father! You're your own father! You're a Nicaraguan mercenary in disguise! Revolver Ocelot is betrayed by his own arm! Revolver Ocelot betrays the Patriots! The Patriots betray Revolver Ocelot's arm! Crazy invincible lady betrays everyone! Everyone betrays everyone! Including the ones who never existed! They work for the Patriots! You work for the Patriots! La-Le-Lu-Le-Lo! Here's a samurai sword for no particular reason! And a Metal Gear to fight! Three Metal Gears! A billion Metal Gears! They're going to blow up New York! They blew up part of New York! But you're alive! Duel on a building! Suddenly Snake appears in New York and goes off to save the robot ninja's kidnapped daughter! Jack and Rose can continue their bland, abusive relationship forever! And no-one gives them a second glance as they walk off, depite the fact that Jack's still wearing his mission gear and carrying a samurai sword! A hidden messege! The Patriots are dead! THE END!"
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Wina on March 11, 2008, 02:03:27 pm
It's a tough call between MGS 2 & MGS 3 for me. I think what wins it is the twist at the end of MGS 3 with The Boss, ah...that was quite a good ending actually. The funniest thing about MGS 2 is you don't expect Raiden at all...I swear Snake's face is the first thing you see (in the background) on the main menu...or I'm just delusional once again. But MGS 4 trailers easily redeem Raiden (despite it being ridiculous acrobatic moves that eerily make me think: what would Eddy Gordo pull off if he had a sword?). But...do others notice a trend of "band-wagon" jumpers who are planning on getting a PS3 for MGS4 when they never played a MGS game before? Oh, the original Metal Gear games were good, man!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 11, 2008, 02:32:29 pm
Metal Gear Solid for the Playstation was an AMAZING game, and I personally think it's the best 3D platformer game that has been made so far. I consider it to have been a huge contributor to the idea of interactive fiction, maybe the most significant one in the history of modern gaming. Its only real shortcomings were the low difficulty and duration of the game, although this also made it a very rentable game to a wide audience (the average non-serious gamer would not, for example, be able to get very excited about renting a game like Final Fantasy VIII).

By the way, you don't need to have played the original two Metal Gear games to be able to vote here. They're relatively obscure because they aren't really very good.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: thejackyl on March 11, 2008, 03:03:16 pm
Also, I bought MGS:tTT, second hand so when it came time to call Meryl, I got stuck and had to look online (and everyone told me "Look at the back of the case", even after I told them I don't have the original case...  I bought it used at gamestop, and it was in their stock case)

I did eventually get a straight answer (thank god it isn't a different code for each disc.  I still want to play the other ones though...
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: xanque on March 11, 2008, 03:54:46 pm
Metal Gear Solid for the GameBoy Color.

No wait, that game sucked. 

As far as the most enjoyment I've got out of a game, Snake Eater wins for me.  The gameplay was perfected, and the story was amazing.  It's one of the few games that has ever made me cry.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on March 11, 2008, 04:03:08 pm
Metal Gear Solid for the Playstation was an AMAZING game, and I personally think it's the best 3D platformer game that has been made so far. I consider it to have been a huge contributor to the idea of interactive fiction, maybe the most significant one in the history of modern gaming. Its only real shortcomings were the low difficulty and duration of the game, although this also made it a very rentable game to a wide audience (the average non-serious gamer would not, for example, be able to get very excited about renting a game like Final Fantasy VIII).

By the way, you don't need to have played the original two Metal Gear games to be able to vote here. They're relatively obscure because they aren't really very good.

I'm pretty sure you're joking and like took someone's comments on Super Mario 64 and just inserted MGS and that's pretty hillarious if you are.

MGS3 is one of my favorite games ever so I voted for that.  It has a lot of stupid bloated features (the self-surgery and survival eating stuff was sooo bad) but the game design for every scenario is really incredible. 
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 11, 2008, 04:18:20 pm
I'm pretty sure you're joking and like took someone's comments on Super Mario 64 and just inserted MGS and that's pretty hillarious if you are.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I wasn't joking. Metal Gear Solid really was innovative in the area of interactive fiction. I can't even think of what comes closest if you're looking at games released in 1998 and before. Can you mention even a single game?

Yes, it's possible that people consider other games to be superior than Super Mario 64 within its genre.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: tuxedo marx on March 11, 2008, 09:50:36 pm
I very much agree with konix! I liked what they did with Gray Fox in Metal Gear II. =D
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 11, 2008, 10:22:31 pm
Metal gear Solid 2 was made to be a deliberately bad game to laugh at the fanboys, most notably the Solid Snake fanboys. It's ridiculous in every aspect and so over the top it makes Star Wars seem like a WW2 documentary. I shouldn't really be suprised that people still cannot grasp that and take it as a serious game... but people do, and I am suprised. I mean... vampires... rollerskating fat guys... a hillariously over the top plot and so much self-awareness... How the fuck can anybody take it seriously?
That being said the original MGS made some pretty solid criticisms about the stupidity of videogames (and most importantly the stupidity of gamers), and the fact that even after so long people aren't getting what it was made to do is somewhat hysterical. The original MGS has to get my vote. It's a great parody of both the spy genre and action movies, and rips gaming culture to shreds. One of the few comedy games that knew how to be comedy.

just wanting something to be true doesn't make it so! there is no evidence for any of this.

also i voted for MGS2 because i think it is the best!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lord Amesius on March 11, 2008, 10:28:33 pm
MGS, to this day I have yet to see bosses better than Vulcan Raven, Psycho Mantis, and the Cyber Ninja . Plus Meryl was fucking hot.... So was Wolf.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lord Amesius on March 11, 2008, 10:30:50 pm
They're relatively obscure because they aren't really very good.

They were VERY good for their day.

They were only on the MSX and never saw a release outside of Japan. That's why they're so obscure.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: HL on March 11, 2008, 10:35:57 pm
They were VERY good for their day.

They were only on the MSX and never saw a release outside of Japan. That's why they're so obscure.

wrong

1 was released here, 2 was japan only until recently.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lord Amesius on March 11, 2008, 10:44:47 pm
I thought they were both only in Japan, my bad. Still, they were very good and definitely underrated.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 11, 2008, 11:25:02 pm
MGS2 because it's like Kojima and Shigesato Itoi's gay love child

Also is MG2 really that great or do people just have a big half-chub about it because it's this epic unplayed retro game
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lord Amesius on March 12, 2008, 12:20:40 am

Also is MG2 really that great or do people just have a big half-chub about it because it's this epic unplayed retro game

A little bit of column a, a little bit of column b.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 12, 2008, 10:48:30 am
They were only on the MSX and never saw a release outside of Japan. That's why they're so obscure.
Okay, well, to be honest, I kind of jumped to a conclusion there. I didn't really know how they were rated, but I just assumed they weren't very received extraordinarily well. (Maybe because I'm a big fan of NES games but simply could not get into those two.)
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on March 12, 2008, 03:06:33 pm
wrong

1 was released here, 2 was japan only until recently.

Well if you want to be semantic

Metal Gear 1 in the US was badly re-arranged and edited and is sort of the same game but is actually not nearly as good in comparison.

Also the US-only Metal Gear 2: Snake's Revenge is amazing.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: UPRC on March 12, 2008, 03:17:03 pm
Ah, VR Missions finally appeared! I just HAVE to change my vote to it because I'm a sucker for games like that.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Kaworu on March 12, 2008, 03:25:16 pm
just wanting something to be true doesn't make it so! there is no evidence for any of this.
Except countless magazine interviews with Kojima and other members of the staff.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Laue on March 12, 2008, 04:36:17 pm
MGS 2 confusing story FTW. So who/what the hell are The Patriots?
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 12, 2008, 05:49:42 pm
Except countless magazine interviews with Kojima and other members of the staff.

sources? i've never heard ANYTHING about MGS2 or 1 being a parody. it is a serious game man!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: EvilDemonCreature on March 12, 2008, 06:08:17 pm
I have gone my entire life without playing a single Metal Gear title.

I normally wouldn't post in a topic like this in that situation, but it feels like such a feat is worth some kind of merit.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on March 12, 2008, 06:28:45 pm
sources? i've never heard ANYTHING about MGS2 or 1 being a parody. it is a serious game man!

I don't know man the idea that the intent of MGS2 was to be as stupid and random as possible in an effort to point at that people take video game stories too seriously sometimes makes a lot more sense than the idea that the game was actually trying to tell a legitimately story full of so much intrigue and double-crossing that we just aren't brilliant enough to figure it out.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 12, 2008, 07:35:31 pm
If you only played the NES versions then yeah, you're right, they're shit. The NES Metal Gear is badly edited and almost nothing like the original version and the unofficial NES sequel is even worse. If you're a big fan of MGS then you should at least give Metal Gear 2 for the MSX a chance.
I never played an MSX game in my life. Maybe I should give them a try!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Kaworu on March 12, 2008, 09:45:50 pm
sources? i've never heard ANYTHING about MGS2 or 1 being a parody. it is a serious game man!
Edge magazine. They do an article/interview on the metal gear series like every few months. next-gen (http://www.next-gen.biz/) also go on about MGS regularly (I think the last BIG ONE was in early jan/December)

Also on a side note, do you really think they are serious games? A game where a boss can tell you've played castlevania, where there is CYBORG NINJAS and WALKING NUCLEAR MISSILE TANKS and where the plot twist at the end is "YES, MR PRESIDENT". Everything about MGS is so blatantly over the top to the point where it's effectively wearing a T-shirt saying "HEY THIS IS A JOKE" and it's wagging it's dick in your face.
The bosses were a very big part in the whole "Video games are gay" point. So let's just focus mainly on that for the time, how videogames would have cliche bosses who get progressively sillier as you go on is something Kojima frequently mentioned in the 90s about how games can't be realistic... So MGS had a slinging cowboy/sherrif (Ocelot) a psychic who could be defeated with a forth wall concept such as using controller two (Psycho mantis), a cliche bond/cold war sniper babe (Sniper wolf, with enough cleavage for two), a fucking CYBORG NINJA (Cyborg Ninja), Heavy Weapons guy, with totally inhuman strength (Vulcan Raven) and a fucking walking tank with a RAILGUN THAT FIRES NUCLEAR WARHEADS. That is of course leaving out the old action movie staples such as rooftop helicopter and jeep chase, but they seem more dud to me.

(It's all very ironic as the MGS series have proven themselves capable of being called art (Note: I don't even like the games personally, so this is hardely fanboy rant) yet Kojima constantly is an ass and makes the claims that videogames are a form that cannot be art)
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 12, 2008, 10:00:43 pm
i know they're ridiculous. i think that kojima just takes himself and his games a bit too seriously (VISITING WARZONES, MOTHERS BREAST).

and i still haven't seen anything from any of the creators that talks about how it is some epic parody that fooled us all!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: ThugTears666 on March 12, 2008, 10:08:34 pm
:words:

You love Neon Genesis Evangelion and are talking to us about ridiculous?


huh im confused
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 12, 2008, 10:22:02 pm
You love Neon Genesis Evangelion and are talking to us about ridiculous?


huh im confused

no one is debating that mgs isn't ridiculous. i just think it's just that... ridiculous. kojima is known for taking extreme measures in making his games and is a pretty crazy dude.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: ThugTears666 on March 12, 2008, 10:26:26 pm
no one is debating that mgs isn't ridiculous. i just think it's just that... ridiculous. kojima is known for taking extreme measures in making his games and is a pretty crazy dude.


but dude, Kaworu is obsessed with: Dr Who, Transformers and Neon Genesis Evangelion. My point is he is in no place to give anyone an in-depth lecture about something being ridiculous!



nothing personal kaworu but yeah..
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 12, 2008, 10:28:31 pm
new random analogy


Metal Gear Solid is the Titus Andronicus of videogames


Edit: I realize that it would seemingly be better to compage Tarantino's movies but he doesn't seem like he could make a good movie that /isn't/ that way and Kojima seems like he could

Edit:
Quote
I realize that it would seemingly be better to compage Tarantino's movies but he doesn't seem like he could make a good movie that /isn't/ that way and Kojima seems like he could

Edit: Strikethrough is the parentheses of the 21st century
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Kaworu on March 12, 2008, 10:36:13 pm

but dude, Kaworu is obsessed with: Dr Who, Transformers and Neon Genesis Evangelion. My point is he is in no place to give anyone an in-depth lecture about something being ridiculous!



nothing personal kaworu but yeah..
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obsessed

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/likes

Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 12, 2008, 10:45:12 pm
Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 12, 2008, 10:46:09 pm
Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.

do you like my analogy :(
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 12, 2008, 10:52:30 pm
Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.

i still don't see how MGS2 is some EPIC PARODY. this is HIDEO KOJIMA, the man who visits warzones and shit. i bet if you asked him he would find it completely serious!

yes, it is extremely ridiculous at times (fatman?), but no more than tons of other games.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Kaworu on March 12, 2008, 10:54:14 pm
*awaits a Hundley or Steel post about MGS2
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: headphonics on March 12, 2008, 10:59:11 pm
i still don't see how MGS2 is some EPIC PARODY. this is HIDEO KOJIMA, the man who visits warzones and shit. i bet if you asked him he would find it completely serious!

yes, it is extremely ridiculous at times (fatman?), but no more than tons of other games.
dude

i can think of ONE OTHER GAME that is as overtly ridiculous to the point that it cannot possibly be a serious attempt at a game, and that is xenogears (and maybe the xenosaga games but i have a sinking feeling that those are 100% sincere).  it's been years since i played mgs2, but honestly, while i understand your point of IS HIDEO KOJIMA REALLY CAPABLE OF THIS LEVEL OF SATIRE??? especially when you take a look at the body of his work as a whole, it's just... it's too absurd for me to believe that it's serious.  i know it would be inconsistent with what we know about him and his other games, but it's just so much more ludicrous than anything else he's made, that i seriously have trouble believing it's not some kind of giant weird joke.  maybe his whole visiting battlefields to........... get a feel....... for war thing was just another joke.  maybe he is secretly some kind of comedy mastermind who gets a kick out of acting like a ridiculous game designer.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: XxSylverxX on March 12, 2008, 11:09:47 pm
it was almost too much after how gay raiden was, how his dumbass gf phoned him on a secret military line about retarded relationship shit, and the rollerskating fatass, an invincible woman and a vampire, but when it started to seem like they brought cyber ninja back from the dead i just gave up...that game was ridiculous to the point of insulting my intelligence and really any one elses who played it.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 12, 2008, 11:12:17 pm
dude

i can think of ONE OTHER GAME that is as overtly ridiculous to the point that it cannot possibly be a serious attempt at a game, and that is xenogears (and maybe the xenosaga games but i have a sinking feeling that those are 100% sincere).  it's been years since i played mgs2, but honestly, while i understand your point of IS HIDEO KOJIMA REALLY CAPABLE OF THIS LEVEL OF SATIRE??? especially when you take a look at the body of his work as a whole, it's just... it's too absurd for me to believe that it's serious.  i know it would be inconsistent with what we know about him and his other games, but it's just so much more ludicrous than anything else he's made, that i seriously have trouble believing it's not some kind of giant weird joke.  maybe his whole visiting battlefields to........... get a feel....... for war thing was just another joke.  maybe he is secretly some kind of comedy mastermind who gets a kick out of acting like a ridiculous game designer.

(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/46827/supkojima.jpg)

man without some kind of quote from kojima or somebody saying "HEH GOTCHA" i just cannot believe someone like that is capable of parody.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: headphonics on March 12, 2008, 11:22:21 pm
are you sure?  because that image in itself seems like it couldn't be anything BUT parody!
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 13, 2008, 01:05:00 am
I guess I'll try to seriously think about this

Of course the actual goings-on of MGS2 was nonsense but like the time it came out and the fact that there was the Patriots (Patriot Act) and GW make me think that the whole thing /was/ about misinformation and whether history books are reliable and crap

Also maybe it's just me but Kojima seems obsessed about whether a soldier can be sure he's fighting for a noble cause now/ever. Also the fact that Raiden doesn't call bullshit is utterly ridiculous but at the same time people can be like "God said go kill these people k" whether you're talking about Al Qaeda or George Bush or whatever
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: pburn on March 13, 2008, 01:07:35 am
Take out Metal Gear Solid VR Missions and add Metal Gear Solid Integral. VR missions was only released standalone in the states, in reality it is a bonus disk included in the MGS rerelease.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Artee on March 13, 2008, 04:49:27 am
MGS 1 is probably one of my favorite games, with the combination of gameplay, story and the little bits of fun spaced through out it easilly wins the poll.

MGS 2 i deffinetly a joke. theres no other way of putting it really.

MGS 3 is good, not as good as the first... but the theme song is hillarious, the satire and jokes placed through out coupled with the exchange of japanese and american culture and ideas about war is just... a really good laugh...

the series on a whole is exelent... if taken for what they are... a satire

MGS 2 is just taking the piss out of itself though.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 13, 2008, 09:02:47 am
do you like my analogy :(
No.

i still don't see how MGS2 is some EPIC PARODY. this is HIDEO KOJIMA, the man who visits warzones and shit. i bet if you asked him he would find it completely serious!

yes, it is extremely ridiculous at times (fatman?), but no more than tons of other games.
The very fact that he doesn't admit to it being a joke it part of it. Why would he? Does the average artist explain why he made the statue blue or does he leave that to the public to find out?

It's been said before. Too many ridiculous things happen in this game, and they happen at a conspicuously increasing rate. You learn about the gay relationship between Vamp and Fortune's dad, the woman who saves your games is in fact the main character's fiancée, who constantly reminds him of how happy they are together while sentimental piano music plays in the background, Otacon admits to having had sex with his mom... there's just too much. In the end, Raiden gets excreted by a gigantic mechanical structure while being naked, and it turns out that the colonel isn't a real person.

All truths be told, it couldn't have been more obvious.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on March 13, 2008, 07:31:20 pm
Also I think it's important to point out (nobody else has) that the first 1/3 of the game on the tanker is actually not that strange at all and is fairly firmly grounded in reality.  Incidentally it was also my favorite part.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Feldschlacht IV on March 13, 2008, 08:05:39 pm
While I disagree with the notion that MGS2 is one big joke (It seems to take itself incredibly seriously, and Kojima takes it more seriously than anyone. Visiting warzones? Come on.), it IS incredibly crazy and over the top. MGS1, and 3, on the other hand, are very compelling games, with honestly, some of the best storylines I've ever experienced in a video game. Metal Gear Solid 4, on the other hand, well, I don't even know. On one hand, it looks like the most epic one to date, but on the other, with some of the things I've seen, it looks incredibly crazy and over the top, like some weird genre of comedy. I guess I'm just rambling.

In the end though, I'm sure most of this can be contributed to the perception that Japanese are wild and crazy kids to most Americans. I'm noticed that Americans (not all, but a lot) are usually surprisingly intolerant to differing styles of art and presentation, and usually dismiss those that they aren't used to as "crazy" or "ridiculous".
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 13, 2008, 10:11:02 pm
Also I think it's important to point out (nobody else has) that the first 1/3 of the game on the tanker is actually not that strange at all and is fairly firmly grounded in reality.  Incidentally it was also my favorite part.
The tanker isn't a third of the game. It's more like... I dunno, 1/20th. It takes like ten minutes to finish.

The point of post-modernism is to build something up and then completely break it down to the point of utter ridicule.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: HL on March 13, 2008, 10:14:44 pm
The entire game is "firmly grounded in reality", as everything that happens actually does happen. The Patriots do exist, Ocelot really is possessed by Liquid, Vamp really does exist, etc etc etc etc.

Just because it isn't your version of what is possible doesn't mean it didn't happen in the game. The game takes place in a different universe where giant fucking robots with nuclear weapons exist, ok.

It's safe to assume that technology is crazy, and I'm sure they'll explain Vamp more thoroughly, just like they did Fortune.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ryan on March 13, 2008, 10:25:08 pm
i also think it being ridiculous is kind of the point. it's to show how naive Raiden really is. everything around him is completely crazy and he's too inexperienced to tell that it is really just a simulation by the Patriots
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: headphonics on March 13, 2008, 10:32:08 pm
The entire game is "firmly grounded in reality", as everything that happens actually does happen. The Patriots do exist, Ocelot really is possessed by Liquid, Vamp really does exist, etc etc etc etc.

Just because it isn't your version of what is possible doesn't mean it didn't happen in the game. The game takes place in a different universe where giant fucking robots with nuclear weapons exist, ok.

It's safe to assume that technology is crazy, and I'm sure they'll explain Vamp more thoroughly, just like they did Fortune.
are you seriously going to split hairs over this?

up until this point in the series, most of the events in all the games (excepting shit like psycho mantis) were firmly rooted in OUR reality.  the only exceptions were the psychic guy and some minor technological things that are probably at least semi-feasible in a conceptual sense.  it can very easily be seen that the game's supposed to take place in the same basic reality as our own, and the change isn't that it deviates from our perception of what reality is (that's deep btw), it's that it deviates from its own definition of what reality was up until that point.  and uh... it's a pretty big change.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: HL on March 13, 2008, 10:52:27 pm
are you seriously going to split hairs over this?

up until this point in the series, most of the events in all the games (excepting shit like psycho mantis) were firmly rooted in OUR reality.  the only exceptions were the psychic guy and some minor technological things that are probably at least semi-feasible in a conceptual sense.  it can very easily be seen that the game's supposed to take place in the same basic reality as our own, and the change isn't that it deviates from our perception of what reality is (that's deep btw), it's that it deviates from its own definition of what reality was up until that point.  and uh... it's a pretty big change.

Well dude, the tanker takes place 2 years after 1, and the plant takes place 4 years after 1.

You can have a lot of technological breakthroughs in 4 years.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on March 14, 2008, 01:55:51 am
like the ability to walk on water and survive gun shots to the head and possess people through surgical arm implants?

Man I was like typing the exact same reply and then I saw that you had beat me to the punch.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on March 14, 2008, 07:13:02 am
The entire game is "firmly grounded in reality", as everything that happens actually does happen. The Patriots do exist, Ocelot really is possessed by Liquid, Vamp really does exist, etc etc etc etc.

Just because it isn't your version of what is possible doesn't mean it didn't happen in the game. The game takes place in a different universe where giant fucking robots with nuclear weapons exist, ok.

It's safe to assume that technology is crazy, and I'm sure they'll explain Vamp more thoroughly, just like they did Fortune.
No, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can say, so there.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: HL on March 14, 2008, 07:26:14 am
like the ability to walk on water and survive gun shots to the head and possess people through surgical arm implants?

Maybe he isn't human, but a robot.

And maybe Liquid and Ocelot are MAGIC.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 14, 2008, 07:11:27 pm
I'm noticed that Americans (not all, but a lot) are usually surprisingly intolerant to differing styles of art and presentation, and usually dismiss those that they aren't used to as "crazy" or "ridiculous".

you forgot religion lol

Quote
In the end though, I'm sure most of this can be contributed to the perception that Japanese are wild and crazy kids to most Americans.

(http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/24155/wildcrazykids.jpg)

awesome
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: The Dude on March 22, 2008, 05:41:23 pm
What's so weird about Vamp? He was/is a Vampire.
The End could do photosynthesis, The Sorrow could speak with the dead, Psycho Mantis could do telepathy and telekinesis, Fortune had Lady Luck , there was that ventriloquist murderer in MGAC!D, etc etc.
Metal Gear isn't 'weird', it just isn't realistic. There's a fantasy edge to this series that keeps it perfectly balanced between serious and silly. That's why I love it.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Warlin on March 22, 2008, 06:28:09 pm
What's so weird about Vamp? He was/is a Vampire.
The End could do photosynthesis, The Sorrow could speak with the dead, Psycho Mantis could do telepathy and telekinesis, Fortune had Lady Luck , there was that ventriloquist murderer in MGAC!D, etc etc.
Metal Gear isn't 'weird', it just isn't realistic. There's a fantasy edge to this series that keeps it perfectly balanced between serious and silly. That's why I love it.

People think Vamp is weird because he's a homosexual... apparently.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on March 22, 2008, 10:15:07 pm
That was one part I always liked about Metal Gear, the enemies are ridiculous but there's always this little bit of TRUTHINESS like this one guy is a psychic and I guess those people exists and this other guy is being controlled by another person's arm and that's the idea of a some Japanese horror movie that got remade with Jessica Alba in it and she's hot so I guess it's possible

And Vamp is bisexual he's like David Bowie and every chick in a porno movie
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: The Dude on March 23, 2008, 07:29:14 pm
Vamp is bisexual he's like David Bowie and every chick in a porno movie

That was the second reason for his name, I believe.
Quote
His moniker has dual meanings, being a short form of the English word vampire as well as refering to his bisexual orientation.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: AdderallApocalypse on March 24, 2008, 04:05:05 am
I'm going to have to go with Metal Gear Solid 2.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lord Amesius on March 25, 2008, 02:59:49 am
That was the second reason for his name, I believe.


You're right, it is.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Lyndon on March 25, 2008, 06:33:36 pm
I voted MGS 1, becuase I just thought it was better than 2 and haven't played 3....

I never really picked up that MGS2 is a satire before. But now you explain, it makes a lot of sense. A load of crazy shit happened, which I didn't question initially. It kind of makes the game cooler. They spent shit loads on a 'serious' game that was the follow up to one of the biggest games ever and it they add in all these little quirky things and no one really notices....
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: darkjak951 on March 30, 2008, 02:23:50 am
i enjoyed mgs:portable ops, it had a good art style, and python is kick ass
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: The Dude on April 05, 2008, 06:42:49 am
like the ability to walk on water and survive gun shots to the head and possess people through surgical arm implants?

The series takes place in another reality where things like photosynthesis can keep an old man alive. Vamp, as I said, was a vampire. Originally, he was supposed to be this martial arts guy. Maybe they wanted his running across water to be like ninjetsu? lol

As for possess people through surgical arm implants.
Liquid is by that time a ghost, and would have the unfinished business of Outer Heaven. Ocelot on the other hand was the offspring of The Joy and The Sorrow, right? Ocelot has the special power from his father (was a spirit medium) to play host to a ghost. Binding Liquid Snake's arm to his body would bring with it the undeparted ghost of a man fixated on living on achieving his father's goal.

There's a lot of crazy shit in MGS, but it's usually just presented as crazy. There's a sort-of logic behind everything.
MGS2 was loopy and off kilter, but as other's have stated, it was part of the simulation.

Lastly, someone said something about Raiden being totally gay. That's just a too-bad mistake. Kojima was actually trying to make him a seriously cool character.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Cardinal Ximenez on April 05, 2008, 05:48:49 pm
I always interpreted MGS2 as partly being a commentary on the relation between video games and reality, but not necessarily as a "satire" about it. One of postmodernism's main tenets is that a work can simultaneously be 'serious' and tongue-in-cheek, and Kojima seems to follow that principle rather consistently throughout his movies games.

Honestly, with all the controversy that MGS2 is getting, I am surprised it is winning over MGS3, which had more gameplay and a plot that would  be more likely to appeal to the masses (not that that's a bad thing).
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: GZ on April 06, 2008, 08:09:56 am
why is no one talking about the infamous dick grab in mgs2 (by the president no less)

this pretty much seals the deal
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Killface on April 06, 2008, 08:31:50 am
"Oh, your a man."
I remember. That creeped me out.

Still, though, MGS2 I chose! (Because of the crazy shit.)
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: helter skelter on April 06, 2008, 10:41:13 am
MGS2 is definitely my favourite. I had a lot of fun with it.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: darkjak951 on April 07, 2008, 02:01:23 am
Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.

mgs2 was solid, less repetitive than mgs1 thats for sure...but mgs1 was still superior and twin snakes further proved this. I haven't played 3, but i hear good things :)
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: PTizzle on April 07, 2008, 07:16:00 am
I have gone my entire life without playing a single Metal Gear title.

I normally wouldn't post in a topic like this in that situation, but it feels like such a feat is worth some kind of merit.


Your loss, really. It's a pretty fantastic series.

I didn't really dig Metal Gear 1/2 (although I played them emulated) but I find it hard to get into that era of games in general so it's probably my fault.

Metal Gear Solid was incredible the first time I played it - I played it through with my dad (family bonding aWwW) and he said it was the best game he'd ever played (although the only game he'd enjoyed before that was Gran Turismo, really). Metal Gear Solid 2 was great as well, messed up story but still pretty awesome throughout. Metal Gear Solid 3 sorta refined everything and for me was the best overall experience - I don't play MGS like you should (i.e, stealth) so I really enjoyed the combat options and general setting of the game.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: maladroithim on April 07, 2008, 02:57:27 pm
I don't play MGS like you should (i.e, stealth) so I really enjoyed the combat options and general setting of the game.

I believe that stealth is actually intended to be the "proper" way to play the game.  MGS is almost a sandbox gameplay style and not narrowly a stealth action game.  The cool thing about MGS is that there is not a "proper" way to play the game; like many games, there is a huge array of options, but unlike other games of that type, most of your different options are just as valid or at least just as fun.  In Splinter Cell for example you pretty much *have* to kill the enemy guard and your options boil down to which weapon you feel like using.  Since he is blocking your linear path, there is nothing you can do except for kill him.  In MGS your strategies tend to be more elaborate, and just as equally as sneaking or choking or shooting are valid, you can also distract the enemy with a pornography magazine or throw a beehive at him or cut the ropes holding a bridge up.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: dada on April 07, 2008, 09:11:55 pm
mgs2 was solid, less repetitive than mgs1 thats for sure...but mgs1 was still superior and twin snakes further proved this. I haven't played 3, but i hear good things :)
I actually think that Twin Snakes just added all the stuff I hated about Metal Gear Solid 2. Including the soundtrack.
Title: Metal GEAR! POLL
Post by: Ragnar on April 07, 2008, 09:19:11 pm
why is no one talking about the infamous dick grab in mgs2 (by the president no less)

this pretty much seals the deal

Don't forget his name was President JOHNSON lol