Gollywogs used to be the logo for Robinsons Jam or something and they had to change that a few years ago, and I remember there being this MASSIVE UPRISING of old people in protest. English people love their gollywogs.
wog was actually a slur agains italians in austrailia. These dolls have been made for so long thats it just takes to tradition, they first started making these in africa if my memory serves me right.
It's not a matter of skin that they made the dolls, it was to show that they didn't feel total racism agains other colors of skin.
not racial equality exactly, thats not in the general idea that i meant, I mean they were in the community and it was a representation.
I dunno, I think this kind of thing is fine, because most racists aren't going to buy it, because why would they, and the people that are buying it just perpetuate a kind "laugh at the ridiculousness of blackface" attitude. I mean, I'm not black and if a lot of black people are angry about this they should stop selling them, but it seems pretty harmless.
EDIT: holy shit dada i just stumbled across that same wikipedia page, did you follow the same path as me through "blackface"?No, I linked to that page because it's a very important national holiday in the Netherlands. There are quite a lot of people from different cultures in the Netherlands, but nobody seems to care.
hundreds of years of slavery and racial bigotry let's all just have a laugh and forget it ever happened. nigger.Obviously, some things are offensive and should not be said. The doll that Lyndon shows is pretty offensive because that's the image people portrayed black people as back when there was still segregation. But things like Sinterklaas exemplify that there is a point at which you need to move on. The Dutch were the original slave traders, but today, black people in the Netherlands happily dress up their children as Zwarte Piet for the Sinterklaas party. (I was a Witte Piet because I'm allergic to face paint!)
haha, he said nigger!
Obviously, some things are offensive and should not be said. But things like Sinterklaas exemplify that there is a point at which you need to move on. The Dutch were the original slave traders, but today, black people in the Netherlands happily dress up their children as Zwarte Piet for the Sinterklaas party. (I was a Witte Piet because I'm allergic to face paint!)
whaaaaat the fuck are you talking about i don't speak your kooky languageYou just don't want to hear!
Dada's point is exactly right. It's ignorant to try and say that symbols only mean one thing forever and ever. Symbols are constantly changing in meaning to suit the current paradigm. If this doll continues to be sold there will be a day when people don't get mad about it when they tell their kids that it's just a silly doll that long ago meant something different. So unless black people are really pissed about this, then I don't see a lot of reason in abolishing these or whatever, I mean black face is a part of history regardless of how many people yell about how they wish it wasn't.
this isn't just some ABSTRACT SYMBOL, dude. it's a blackface doll! what do you not get about this! it won't just CHANGE MEANING OVER TIME, unless the whole doll itself is redesigned, but if you're going to do that you might as well just make a new doll and stop selling this shit.What he's saying is that this doll's meaning won't be the same in 100 years.
but then again i'll bet you're the type of person who thinks white people should be allowed to say "nigger" if black people can, aren't you.Hey man, there's no reason to draw such conclusions so quickly! The issue of race isn't trivial. If you want to be able to discuss it at all (and as long as the problem isn't solved, there is the need to discuss it), you'll have to be a bit more reasonable than that.
What he's saying is that this doll's meaning won't be the same in 100 years.
The point I was making about the Dutch national holiday called Sinterklaas just now exemplifies that.
so if they had a jew doll with a really big nose and dollar signs for eyes that would just be acknowledging that they're a part of the community and that's not racist at all right
now that is a whole different representation. You can't say just because it is a black doll that it is racist.
Everything nowadays can be considered racist even if you can't tell what color of skin that person is. For example I am metis, Cree if you will and I don't get offended by the chippewan or Iroquois wear that children use in school or the symbol on the football team. They are collective images or representations of a group of people within a community.
Just because a doll is black or brown skin doesn't mean that in todays cultures it is being used like a racial slur against others, and to say that the people buying it, owning it, or selling it is racist because they do have it in their possession is complete bullshit unless they have "n#^@&'s are evil" or something to that effect vocalized or utilized in their activites.
Just because it looks like racism doesn't mean it is.
i think the dolls are horribly racist showing black people with dark skin smiling?
native american stuff is way worse but i don't think gollywogs are that bad
there was actually an antiques store i went into because i saw a gollywog and i thought they were illegal, it cost something well over $100 though so i skipped out of that place quick smart
are gingerbread men racist
I also don't remember him having any real negative connotations; he was just an elf, right? correct me if I'm wrong, you would know.To be honest, there are various interpretations of the story. You can read some of them on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet#Origin_and_evolution). The most commonly known version is that he was a slave that got freed by Sinterklaas and then decided to serve him freely.
symbols are constantly changing but I don't see them changing to accepting the image of golliwogs any time soon!Absolutely.
you're thinking of wop and you're very confused if you think the gollywog is some attempt at racial equality.
Actually you had this conversation with Serenity before and she said the same thing. I think it also applies for muslims and greeks too.
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Sint_in_spanje.jpg/450px-Sint_in_spanje.jpeg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas)
i have been avoiding this topic because of my avatar :((
One guy is dressed as Bishop Nicholas (St. Nicholas) and the other guy is Othello the Moore of Venice.
Othello is a black character (he's a moore, duh) so the guy is in black-face.
I thought she used it for greeks.Pretty surprised (well actually not at all) that some people here don't see the significance of these things! Oh and I think it was ShinyRaccoon who said that racist bit? Oh, wait, that was RUSSIANS AND JEWS wasn't it?
either way wog is some racist bullshit and it was great seeing her be like I HATE WOGS AND ABBOS, Australians are so awful mostly.
save the last adeline.
A tradition to paint themselves black and walk up and down the high street? I am pretty sure that is a lie.
Also, what the fuck?? From the gollywog car incident and the way some of you are talking, it would seem like racism is illegal in the UK? Like, the police have the authority to remove any sign or gollywog doll that they deem racist?Yeah they have the right, and racism is far from illegal in the UK. Racism's still a serious issue over here, just less towards blacks these days.
i've never seen one before, but i think that doll is cute. :3 obviously racist... but cute.racist dbz (Click to reveal)but hey, racism used this way has been around for a loooong time. and unless you're looking for it or you have presuppositions about it, then you don't even notice it sometimes. when i was a little kid, Mr. Popo was just another one of the weird characters in Dragonball Z. now he's "OMG RACIST".
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/mkkmypet/Ep-125-28429.webp)
but if you can't have that guy (because it's a racist image), can you have these other characters?
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/mkkmypet/Kais.webp)