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General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Lyndon on April 03, 2008, 09:31:27 pm

Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Lyndon on April 03, 2008, 09:31:27 pm
http://www.oxmonline.com/article/previews/a-f/fallout-3-0?page=0%2C0

screens on actual page


This looks pretty cool. Obviously its not the isometric style from the predesessors that everyone hoped for, but it could be still a great a game.

I'm sure a lot of you won't be happy with this though. 'Oblivion with guns' is probably not what the die hard fallout fans wanted...
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 03, 2008, 11:41:07 pm
I think I'm the only Fallout fan in the universe that's actually anticipating this game.  I can understand the animosity the game is getting because Bethesda did a really terrible job marketing the game last year and the first paragraph practically summed up everyone's fears; the game was being marketed as OBLIVION WITH GUNS but that's not Fallout.  Over the months the slow stream of information has quickly levied my skepticism about the title and I can honestly say that I'm pretty psyched about the following things:

1: No more buggy ass battle system (I hope).  As much as I loved Fallout's skill system, battles either revolved around having a high small arms (as big guns and energy weapons were so rare and useless) or having a high melee and abusing the Super Sledge.  There's practically no inbetween.  Fallout 2 made this worse with a mandatory final boss that had 999 hitpoints.  Even with party members, a pacifist character stood no chance.

2: All the humor and 50s scare is still there.  They already confirmed the new soundtrack and it's an actual SOUNDTRACK rather than Fallout's single licensed song that plays in the beginning.  They said there's no ingame music but you can hear the soundtrack on discarded tv's and radios.  Hopefully there's a radio built in your pipboy.

3: Even though it's using the Oblivion engine, the face skeleton system has been completely changed which is great because Oblivion had butt ugly faces models.

4: No more Oblivion TOPIC discussion system. I don't think they discussed how conversations in game will happen but Oblivion's topic system wouldn't work for Fallout.

5: I love the new art.  I love the washed out greys and ash covered look of the north east.

6: The dark humor seems to be intact which is always a good thing for me. 

Yep, definitely anticipating this game.  Hopefully it comes out by september or october.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: xanque on April 04, 2008, 12:03:07 am
Honestly, I wanted guns in Oblivion really badly.  And this is taking my dream to an even better level by adding shit loads of gore.  This game sounds amazing, and I can't wait until it comes out.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Dead Phoenix on April 04, 2008, 01:06:55 am
*insert fallout fanboy, anti-fallout 3 rant here*
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: thejackyl on April 04, 2008, 01:50:00 am
I loved Fallout, but couldn't get into Fallout 2 so much.  I don't really know why, but I do look forward to this.  Though I doubt my computer would be able to run it really high.

I don't like weapon degradation at all.  Give me one game where it was actually a good idea, and it would make the game less enjoyable without it?

I was never one to shy away from over the top fantasy violence though :naughty:
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 04, 2008, 01:59:45 am
I don't like weapon degradation at all.  Give me one game where it was actually a good idea, and it would make the game less enjoyable without it?

Diablo?
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 04, 2008, 02:12:32 am
I think I'm the only Fallout fan in the universe that's actually anticipating this game.  I can understand the animosity the game is getting because Bethesda did a really terrible job marketing the game last year and the first paragraph practically summed up everyone's fears; the game was being marketed as OBLIVION WITH GUNS but that's not Fallout.  Over the months the slow stream of information has quickly levied my skepticism about the title and I can honestly say that I'm pretty psyched about the following things:

1: No more buggy ass battle system (I hope).  As much as I loved Fallout's skill system, battles either revolved around having a high small arms (as big guns and energy weapons were so rare and useless) or having a high melee and abusing the Super Sledge.  There's practically no inbetween.  Fallout 2 made this worse with a mandatory final boss that had 999 hitpoints.  Even with party members, a pacifist character stood no chance.

2: All the humor and 50s scare is still there.  They already confirmed the new soundtrack and it's an actual SOUNDTRACK rather than Fallout's single licensed song that plays in the beginning.  They said there's no ingame music but you can hear the soundtrack on discarded tv's and radios.  Hopefully there's a radio built in your pipboy.

3: Even though it's using the Oblivion engine, the face skeleton system has been completely changed which is great because Oblivion had butt ugly faces models.

4: No more Oblivion TOPIC discussion system. I don't think they discussed how conversations in game will happen but Oblivion's topic system wouldn't work for Fallout.

5: I love the new art.  I love the washed out greys and ash covered look of the north east.

6: The dark humor seems to be intact which is always a good thing for me. 

Yep, definitely anticipating this game.  Hopefully it comes out by september or october.

I was about to type up the exact same thing but I'll just quote you.  As awesome as Fallout 1 and 2 were (my favorite PC games ever dude), making Fallout play more like Oblivion will do nothing but great things for it.  I don't think anyone actually remembers how bad the controls were and how much of a pain in the ass it generally was to play the original Fallout games.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: cowardknower on April 04, 2008, 02:27:55 am
for me the biggest worry isnt that they will change the interface, but that they will fuckass ruin the universe.  that will be dissapointing.

i have hesitant high hopes though.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Rowain on April 04, 2008, 11:22:37 am
Having never been a "diehard" Fallout fan to begin with, this sounds like nothing but cool to me. I like the clever character creation and tutorials especially. And hey, Oblivion was hours of fun, so I have no problems with them starting there.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: jamie on April 04, 2008, 12:46:22 pm
i never got into fallout anyway so even if this is just oblivion with guns i don't care cos then it's one of my favourite games put into a post-apocalypse thumbs up.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Tau on April 04, 2008, 01:11:49 pm
I'm pretty excited about this title, although I haven't played the original Fallout games, a post apocalyptic, action, wide open oblivion-ish game sounds like something I can get into haha, I just hope it doesn't get boring after a while like oblivion did for me in the end, or maybe it was because I played it for like a week straight haha..  :huh:
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on April 04, 2008, 01:14:26 pm
Quote
Fallout 2 made this worse with a mandatory final boss that had 999 hitpoints.  Even with party members, a pacifist character stood no chance.

that's not true. You can talk to Frank Horrigan's soldiers to change sides, also you can activate the turrets against him. You can win basically by standing in the corner.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: XxSylverxX on April 04, 2008, 02:06:38 pm
are you sure about that? i mean i know you can get that crew of enclave soldiers to switch sides, but im not so sure about horrigan himself.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on April 04, 2008, 02:22:24 pm
I am. In fact I did the same with my charisma character.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IaljDOi8ApE

You don't need to watch the whole thing, only the part from 06:00 matters. Anyways I'm looking forward to fallout 3 as well, I hope it's not going to be a short consoletard game
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Sarevok on April 04, 2008, 02:32:53 pm
I was about to say that Kassey, yeah. You can beat the game without wielding a single weapon if you so choose. You can't do that in fallout 1 though, because iirc you have to kill the master to 'end' the game.

On a side note, none of this info is new.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: thejackyl on April 04, 2008, 02:40:51 pm
I was about to say that Kassey, yeah. You can beat the game without wielding a single weapon if you so choose. You can't do that in fallout 1 though, because iirc you have to kill the master to 'end' the game.

On a side note, none of this info is new.

Actually in Fallout 1, if you get the discs from the Brotherhood of Steel Lab, and some other data things, you can show The Master that the mutants are infertile, and he will kill himself IIRC.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Lyndon on April 04, 2008, 03:33:00 pm
I was about to say that Kassey, yeah. You can beat the game without wielding a single weapon if you so choose. You can't do that in fallout 1 though, because iirc you have to kill the master to 'end' the game.

On a side note, none of this info is new.

well I only posted this becuase I hadn't seen any updates on here on the game. Also the article is from march 31st
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 04, 2008, 03:45:38 pm
I never beat Fallout 2 because the final boss always glitched out in my copy.  I got to him several times on different playthroughs but the game would always freeze up.  I think I might prefer it that way though, because not having finished it, it maintains a certain mysteriousness and mystique.  Did anyone else encounter this?

Also did anyone play Fallout Tactics?  It didn't seem like a very good game until you got into a bit.  The game system is pretty cool once you figure out how to manage your characters' parameters and it's definitely fun to spec up an entire party of Fallout characters.  Also the later missions are much more densely designed than the first ones and the game starts to get more of an RPG vibe than it does when it starts out.  The writing in the game is pretty embarassing though ("Target (pronounced Tar-jay) only has one eye, but it sure is a good'un!").
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on April 04, 2008, 03:52:03 pm
I remember playing fallout tactics in multiplayer, I played as a robot and I always repaired myself with a snap-on kit. That was awesome.

Also there was a drunken master perk for hand to hand combat.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 04, 2008, 05:06:21 pm
Quote
that's not true. You can talk to Frank Horrigan's soldiers to change sides, also you can activate the turrets against him. You can win basically by standing in the corner.

The turrets didn't auto-target him until he turned into an aggressive character which happened either

A: You get close enough to talk to him

or

B: You shoot him first.

Regardless, the guy could do 50-100 points of damage EVEN WHILE WEARING ENCLAVE POWER ARMOR and he could attack 2 or 3 times in a single turn.  Luckily I was playing as a character with the sniper perk and a ridiculously high critical and managed to hit him for something like 300 points of damage in one turn but the guy destroyed every turret and murdered those enclave soldiers well before I got the chance to kill him.

And my god, he has the best death animation out of any villain in any videogame ever created in the history of the universe.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: #1 Vodka fan on April 04, 2008, 05:59:36 pm
well if you don't believe me watch the various speedrun videos on youtube. It is possible to win the game with a pacifist character. Anyways I think the soldiers could attack him and turning the aggressive mode on, making him an excellent target for the turrets. If my math works, that's 12 enemies for Horrigan(excluding me), and all of them do around 10-30 points of damage/attack. It's no way he could survive it. Though luck is an important factor here, so probably he got really high criticals against them in your game.

Also I agree with you on the small guns part, but shit like this happen in every game, people just find out the easiest and most useful(damage-wise) character build. The energy weapons skill was useful though in my opinion. Nothing can beat the gauss rifle, but the yk pulse rifle comes really close.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: PTizzle on April 07, 2008, 07:23:55 am
It was hard for me personally to choose my favourite 'isometric tactical RPG' out of Jagged Alliance 2 and Fallout, but since I ended up going JA2 (and getting pretty hardcore into it) I sorta only remember a lot of the annoying things about Fallout. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic game, but it was buggy and it felt like the game pushed you into certain skill paths and such. I'm personally heavily anticipating Fallout 3 (even if I'm one of the few people who didn't love Oblivion for god knows what reason) and I'm hoping that it really brings the series into the future gameplay wise.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Bondo on April 07, 2008, 01:09:00 pm
The only game I looked foward to more was Oblivion, and that's just because I'm a quivering Elderscrolls nutjob.

So with that said, you're DAMN RIGHT I'm excited about the concept of a post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: headphonics on April 07, 2008, 03:52:18 pm
were fallout fans seriously expecting/hoping for an ISOMETRIC FALLOUT 3 ten years after fallout 2?  really?  i don't understand why that would still be desirable.  at the very least you'd want a functioning 3d version, and i don't really see how making it mostly first-person 3d, in the same vein as oblivion, really negatively impacts the experience in any way at all.

anyway, morrowind and oblivion were some of the only games in recent memory that i got into, and i ultimately ended up having a lot of fun with both of them, so i'm looking forward to this, even if it does just end up being oblivion with guns.  i always wanted to like fallout, because it seemed really cool and i liked the setting and people raved about it, but it was so goddamn boring that i couldn't even force myself to play it.  i'm pretty excited for this game because hopefully it'll give me a an IN to the series that i can actually tolerate playing.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: The Truth on April 07, 2008, 04:07:16 pm
were fallout fans seriously expecting/hoping for an ISOMETRIC FALLOUT 3 ten years after fallout 2?  really?  i don't understand why that would still be desirable.  at the very least you'd want a functioning 3d version, and i don't really see how making it mostly first-person 3d, in the same vein as oblivion, really negatively impacts the experience in any way at all.

anyway, morrowind and oblivion were some of the only games in recent memory that i got into, and i ultimately ended up having a lot of fun with both of them, so i'm looking forward to this, even if it does just end up being oblivion with guns.  i always wanted to like fallout, because it seemed really cool and i liked the setting and people raved about it, but it was so goddamn boring that i couldn't even force myself to play it.  i'm pretty excited for this game because hopefully it'll give me a an IN to the series that i can actually tolerate playing.

A lot of people really dig isometric rpgs, myself included. Games like Planescape, Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 1&2 etc hold a great feeling in a lot of player's hearts. And it's not like throwing a bone to these types of people is without precendent, didn't Temple of Elemental Evil come out in like 2003?

Anyway without waiting for the rest of the old cranky fallout fanboy hivemind to post I will say I am cautiously optimistic.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: headphonics on April 07, 2008, 05:14:26 pm
yeah i agree let's use outmoded and unideal graphical styles for nostalgic purposes.  at least with 2d platformers, or 2d in general, there's the extremely valid argument that 3d shouldn't necessarily replace 2d completely, and they're two totally different styles.  there's really no reason whatsoever to make a game isometric instead of fully 3d in the same style as uh.... neverwinter nights or whatever.  isometric games pretty clearly only existed because of technological constraints, i think!  there's no practical reason to use it if actual 3d is feasible.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 07, 2008, 05:50:20 pm
yeah i agree let's use outmoded and unideal graphical styles for nostalgic purposes.  at least with 2d platformers, or 2d in general, there's the extremely valid argument that 3d shouldn't necessarily replace 2d completely, and they're two totally different styles.  there's really no reason whatsoever to make a game isometric instead of fully 3d in the same style as uh.... neverwinter nights or whatever.  isometric games pretty clearly only existed because of technological constraints, i think!  there's no practical reason to use it if actual 3d is feasible.

Well I think he was probably referring to a fully 3D game that is still basically played the same way as an isometric game.  Neverwinter Nights 2, for example, was fully 3D and everything, but the game was clearly designed to be played with the camera placed at an isometric position.  This was the default position of the camera also.

Anyway, I've said before that Fallout was probably originally envisioned to be more like Fallout 3 than Fallout 1 or 2.  The games are by their nature very lonely.  You can form a loose party but you have no direct control over your partners nor do you have very efficient control of their inventories.  You are supposed to feel alone and stranded in a desolate world where everyone else is out to cheat you.  In my opinion, the core concept of the Fallout series will be greatly enhanced by playing the game in first-person rather than third person, because you'll feel even more connected to your avatar and more isolated from everyone else.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Leric on April 07, 2008, 06:11:59 pm
I think for most fans it's more than just about it being 2D or 3D but they wanted it to be from the same perspective as the first 2 games (sorta like how Starcraft 2 is 3D but it's still the same perspcetive as Starcraft 1). I don't think many of them would have been bothered if it had been a top-down 3D game with the same content & graphics as it has now.

EDIT: maladroithim basically made my 1st paragraph's point before I posted. Guess I'll keep it in & co-sign him.

But to me personally, being a HUGE Fallout fan, this (along with Prototype) is one of my most anticipated games this year. At first I had my doubts about it but they're all but gone now. If this game turns out to feel like a true Fallout sequel then I'm happy. But even if it turns out to just be post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns then I'm still happy since I loved Oblivion and I'm a bigger fan of Sci-fi/modern games than I am high fantasy. Pretty much this game is a win/win for me.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 07, 2008, 06:15:16 pm
But to me personally, being a HUGE Fallout fan, this (along with Prototype) is one of my most anticipated games this year. At first I had my doubts about it but they're all but gone now. If this game turns out to feel like a true Fallout sequel then I'm happy. But even if it turns out to just be post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns then I'm still happy since I loved Oblivion and I'm a bigger fan of Sci-fi/modern games than I am high fantasy. Pretty much this game is a win/win for me.

While we are agreeing with each other I will repost this paragraph.  I feel exactly the same way; if they make a good Fallout sequel then I'll be thrilled, but if they make a good Oblivion mod I'll be thrilled too.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Dead Phoenix on April 08, 2008, 01:27:28 am
I've had a thing against First Person View(i don't find it any more Immersive(video games have made me hate this word so much) then others) games since the first time I saw Doom and personally very much prefer Isometric to FP(though fully controllable 3D camera would be even better), despite this I really wanted to enjoy the Elder Scroll games, but every attempt would just leave me extremely bored.  I've also hated every action rpg more and more since SoM, usually preferring turned-based games or pure action and I was really hoping for F3 to use a Fallout Tactics style battles system(able to chose between real time or turn based, and full control of your party) which is what the Van Buren beta was looking like it was headed for.  The only thing left that they could possibly get right is the writing and the whole cause and effect thing, but their past games and a lot of what I've read since they picked up the game has me worried about this as well.

so yeah, basically my problem is that fallout 3 takes everything i want in an rpg(the essential falloutly-ness) and replaces it with exactly what i don't want(Elder Scrolls).  If this game wasn't called Fallout, or maybe even if they left out the 3 and called it Fallout: Gaiden I might be looking forward to it(like to do for ever ES game only to be sorely disappointed), but as long as its called Fallout 3 I feel like a large portion of the Fallout fan-based is getting shit on(note everyone in this topic thats all for this game is an Oblivion fan, and only half of those are actually fallout fans).
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 08, 2008, 03:45:54 am
Quote
I've had a thing against First Person View(i don't find it any more Immersive(video games have made me hate this word so much) then others) games since the first time I saw Doom and personally very much prefer Isometric to FP(though fully controllable 3D camera would be even better), despite this I really wanted to enjoy the Elder Scroll games, but every attempt would just leave me extremely bored.

I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news at all but you can swap perspectives and the battles themselves are turn based in the 3rd person perspective.  After playing games like Breakdown and Call of Cthulhu I can't stand NOT playing in first person but to each his own I guess.

Quote
The only thing left that they could possibly get right is the writing and the whole cause and effect thing, but their past games and a lot of what I've read since they picked up the game has me worried about this as well.

This is another overrated thing from Fallout in general.  There was a "cause and effect" but it did absolutely nothing to the storyline except change a sentence at the ending.  In fact, the entire ending was basically a "what did you do to the wasteland" montage which made my whole 20 hour experience with the game feel really cheap.  Yeah, you could run out the mexicans in new reno or whatever but SO WHAT.  You could abolish slavery but WHO CARES?  It did absolutely nothing to effect the game at all.  What would have been cool is if you took out the slavers then took over the slave pens for yourself to make some money on the side.  Or how about eradicating all the mutants would increase the number of human supremicist random encounters and the people would give you stuff for being so cool?  How about when you take out one of those rival martial arts gangs in san diego, the people in the street parade around you because you're so cool?

The writers have already been talking about shit like this but everyone ignores them because DUR HUR MORROWIND GUYZ.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Dead Phoenix on April 08, 2008, 06:12:13 am
I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news at all but you can swap perspectives and the battles themselves are turn based in the 3rd person perspective.
Oh my fucking god, I can not believe this.  I seriously expected better of you ABM.  Have YOU been paying attention to this game?  Yes you can switch perspectives but only first and third person are usable in battle, the top down view is just a point less add on and when using the VATS system you are forced into first person mode.  Also the battles real time with pause(VATS).

Quote
This is another overrated thing from Fallout in general.
Overrated? Maybe, but they did it better then most games, which is what I liked most about the game in the first place(espically the ending, thats the reason why I loved KotOR 2's ending so much).  And yes I would love it if had all those extra effects you mentioned(and I'm fairly sure the games had more then you give them credit for), but from personal experience with their games, I'd have to say Beth is not the company to pull it off.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on April 08, 2008, 06:26:09 am
yeah i agree let's use outmoded and unideal graphical styles for nostalgic purposes.  at least with 2d platformers, or 2d in general, there's the extremely valid argument that 3d shouldn't necessarily replace 2d completely, and they're two totally different styles.  there's really no reason whatsoever to make a game isometric instead of fully 3d in the same style as uh.... neverwinter nights or whatever.  isometric games pretty clearly only existed because of technological constraints, i think!  there's no practical reason to use it if actual 3d is feasible.

i wouldn't say it's outmoded. RTS games use their version of it after all.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: headphonics on April 08, 2008, 09:07:13 am
i wouldn't say it's outmoded. RTS games use their version of it after all.
wait, i think maybe we're talking about different things.  when i say isometric, i mean it in the literal sense.  like, two-dimensional games that are intended to look like a single, fixed perspective in a three-dimensional game.  i don't mind ACTUAL 3d like dungeon siege.  what i was saying was that i don't see a reason to use mock-3d isometric over full-3d, when the only reason for its original use was that it was infinitely easier to create/less taxing on hardware.  i assume this is a misunderstanding, because as far as i know, almost all rts are in full 3d, and stopped being isometric with like... warcraft 2.

or, alternatively, now that i'm looking it up, i might have had a misconception as to the definition of isometric.  if that's the case, whoops!
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 08, 2008, 01:31:54 pm
Quote
Oh my fucking god, I can not believe this.  I seriously expected better of you ABM.  Have YOU been paying attention to this game?  Yes you can switch perspectives but only first and third person are usable in battle, the top down view is just a point less add on and when using the VATS system you are forced into first person mode.  Also the battles real time with pause(VATS).

The turn-based thing was a mistake on my part but you can still switch to 3rd person a la Morrowind and Oblivion but unlike those two games the camera doesn't follow behind your character.  Don't believe me?  Here's a quote:

Quote
Fallout 3 has an improved third-person camera. In fact, not only is it perfectly playable from third-person, but you can zoom out the camera to make it almost isometric, in a nod to the previous two games.

They said if you want to play the game from a 3/4 perspective than you can.  This was said last year I don't know why I'm bringing it up now.

Quote
I'd have to say Beth is not the company to pull it off.

Holy crap, has no one like... payed attention to Morrowind or Oblivion?  The NPC's TALK TO YOU based on your race, gender, and class.  There are racist characters in both games who have low disposition if you're a certain race (specifically Argonian and Khajit) and there is a reputation system in place in the game where disposition is affected by how many quests you did in the area.

Fallout's NPC's were 1 of 2 things:

1: They said the same thing regardless of what you have done or what your karma is.

or

2: They refused to talk to you depending on what organization you joined.

Hmmmmm... sounds awfully close to what Bethesda does in their games. 

Pardon me but I'm not trying to knock Fallout down a peg at all I'm simply pointing out that all this crap people are saying Bethesda will ultimately skip has either not been done well in the original Fallout or has already been noted by Bethesda in an interview.  I'm concerned about stuff too (oddly enough my concerns revolve around battering, whether NPC's can be killed while you're away like in STALKER, and how travelling works because they never talked about it) but a lot fans (not pointing fingers, just fans in general) have massive Nostalgia-Goggles(tm) on which makes them think that the original game is this wonderful piece of unflawed art that can't be touched or improved upon.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Dead Phoenix on April 08, 2008, 02:14:13 pm
They said if you want to play the game from a 3/4 perspective than you can.  This was said last year I don't know why I'm bringing it up now.
I am aware of that thats why i said "he top down view is just a point less add on", its there, but it worthless(unusable even, i believe) during battles.

Quote
The NPC's TALK TO YOU based on your race, gender, and class.
There's no race or class choice in Fallout, but there are plenty of times gender affects conversations, as well as stats, skills, traits and perks.  Also I believe karma does have an affect on how people treat you, I don't know for sure of any place that it happens, but I know there's a perk just for that(*Something* Presence I think).  And while Beth may have done more then I gave them credit for, I'm more worried about the actual conversations and their effects, something, without a doubt, Beth games have been lacking in.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 08, 2008, 02:39:15 pm
and when using the VATS system you are forced into first person mode.

I don't know if you recall but in Fallout when you chose which part of the enemy to aim your gun at, it pulled up a big wireframe image of the enemy showing you your chances of hitting each body part.  I believe Fallout 3 will be the same, just that you are pointing a spot on the 3D model in front of you and not an anonymous wireframe.

Also seriously man what's your problem?  Why are you like so afraid of this game?  As far as I can tell its featureset is identical to Fallout 1 & 2 but it takes advantage of a now fully-3D environment.  The more I read, the more it seems like Fallout 1 and the less it seems like Oblivion.  It's so weird that a lot of hardcore Fallout fans who have been begging for a sequel for years are so unreceptive to what they are finally getting.

note everyone in this topic thats all for this game is an Oblivion fan, and only half of those are actually fallout fans

Well Fallout is my favorite PC game ever so
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: thejackyl on April 08, 2008, 08:09:29 pm

Holy crap, has no one like... payed attention to Morrowind or Oblivion?  The NPC's TALK TO YOU based on your race, gender, and class.  There are racist characters in both games who have low disposition if you're a certain race (specifically Argonian and Khajit)

wait...  what?

I don't remember any racist characters in Oblivion (I didn't play much of Morrowind), IIRC the NPC's that hated me, always hated whatever class I picked, or it was a town against a certain class.  (again, IIRC...  it's been a year or so since I played Oblivion)

Also for 1998 (Fallout 2) having NPCs that treated you different depending on gender was about as close as any game has gotten, that I'm aware of.  Though I guess this is spoiled by the only real difference being dialogue choices and the enemies taunts (they'd refer to you as bitch if you played as a female...  not sure if they have a specific insult for a male)
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 08, 2008, 08:50:11 pm
Quote
I don't remember any racist characters in Oblivion (I didn't play much of Morrowind), IIRC the NPC's that hated me, always hated whatever class I picked, or it was a town against a certain class.  (again, IIRC...  it's been a year or so since I played Oblivion)

In Morrowind, playing as an Argonian would automatically lower your disposition with some characters and they'd refer to you as a 2nd class citizen.  It wasn't much, but my point was that the only difference in Fallout's dialog was whether or not an NPC (and the non-important NPCs said ONE SENTENCE when you talked to them) would talk to you or blow you off.  Oh yeah, you could have sex with that caravaners secretary if you were male.

Baldur's Gate actually had some variance in dialog based on current events, your parties reputation, and your race and gender but once again none of it had anything to do with the game itself.  It actually brings up a good point on "interaction" in videogames because there is only one game I can think of where an NPC's opinion was directly influenced by your character and that's the original Black and White... and even in that game villagers were either impressed by your creature or they were frightened which only impacted how quickly they were converted.  Fable also had a NPC reaction system but just like Black and White it simply boiled down to "are the villagers afraid of you or do they like you?" and it affected absolutely nothing else.

If Fallout 3 actually has real cause and effect choices that actually change the game's story on the fly or cause NPC's to react to you differently based on what you've done (killing mutants causes villagers to call you mutie-killer or just something basic like that) then I will actually be impressed.  It would be really really awesome if, for example, you kill a den of deathclaws but a nearby town starts to get infested with killer mole rats because you just whiped out the mole rats predators.  THAT would be a real example of cause and effect and I will proudly flaunt in Fallout purists face that Bethesda did something Black Isle promised to do but failed to deliver on (or at least did poorly).

As far as Karma goes, it was a limiter of sorts on the quests you could take.  There were a handful of quests in Fallout 1 (like... 3 or 4) that couldn't be accessed until you had a high karma.  In Fallout 2, I'm pretty certain Karma did absolutely nothing for the game except maybe change a single sentence in the ending. 

The lead designer of Fallout 3 said in an interview last year that they were focusing most of the game's dialog on karma so every NPC will react to you uniquely based on your karma rating.  One particularly interesting thing he said was that the game supports the middle ground as opposed to either extremes which is cool to me because the choices in fallout aren't always good or evil (great example is supporting one of the miners in Fallout 2; one miner supports drugs from new reno while the other supports the fascist new california republic).  A lot of RPG's like KotoR and Mass Effect (although Mass Effect's good/evil system was pointless other than making conversations sound cool) focus on two extremes but it's great to see Bethesda wants the game to have the same storytelling style as the original Fallout.

Of course, Fallout purists don't read developer interviews and judge the game completely based on material that was announced 2 years ago.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Rowain on April 09, 2008, 02:03:41 am
I've still got a soft spot for isometric RPGs, like Baldur's Gate and shit but no, I wouldn't want NEW games designed like that. The Aurora Engine in NWN2 is about as "old school" as I'd like a new western RPG to be (though I wouldn't mind one that was better coded, for shit's sake, it's got to be one of the buggiest, slowest engines ever). I mean, I'd be down for Fallout 3 even if it was like NWN2 with guns/post apocalypse, but I am also definitely down for this. Bioware makes enough traditional western RPGs that we don't need this to be one too.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Killer Wolf on April 09, 2008, 02:31:32 am
I'm somewhat of a hybrid being that I am a big fan of both Fallout and Elder Scrolls games. I remember comparisons made, even early on, between the FP open worlders and the isometric post nukers, which basically amounted to apples and oranges. I enjoyed both styles, but for different reasons.

In Fallout 1 & 2, I loved the retro-sci fi/spaghetti western smash up. I liked figuring out ways to abuse the game system, like going into "steal" mode to plant plastic explosives (that I had set the timer on) on some guy I wasn't tough enough to kill yet so I could get the guns, ammo, and body armor from him and his room full of cronies. I also liked blowing a mutant's head apart like an over-ripe melon with my Blade Runner looking .223 pistol, or going special agent and talking may way through the entire last dungeon.

In Oblivion (and even more so in Morrowind), I spent an inordinate amount of time simply - exploring. I'd forget about the main quest and just wander around, sometimes getting into side quests, sometimes doing some dungeon looting, sometimes just collecting ingredients for alchemy. In Morrowind, I liked the ability to cast a locking spell on a door to prevent some monster from killing me.

Fallout never had the level of "aimless wandering" that the Elder Scrolls games did. The world map received the Indiana Jones treatment and my character's progress was a thin line.

The Elder Scrolls games never really had the complexity of Fallout. They tried - stealing the glass vessel from the wanna-be Lych DID remind me of my old days of planting plastic explosives and dynamite on Slavers, but the game was just designed differently.

I'm looking forward to this game. It will most likely be the reason that I finally get my wayward 360 repaired.

I'm sure there will be enough "Hell yes, this IS Fallout" moments to offset the "Uh, this is totally different...I want my hex grid!" moments. And if I get a sudden yen for some true old-school Fallout nostalgia, I can play 1&2 again.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 09, 2008, 03:09:47 am
The Aurora Engine in NWN2 is about as "old school" as I'd like a new western RPG to be (though I wouldn't mind one that was better coded, for shit's sake, it's got to be one of the buggiest, slowest engines ever).

I would just like to repeat this because holy crap it's an awful engine.  It's curious that the guys at CDProjekt managed to make The Witcher, which was based on a modded Aurora Engine 1, look much better and run much more smoothly than NWN 2 could have ever hoped for.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Carrion Crow on April 09, 2008, 02:29:32 pm
My opinion on this game is the same as my one for Red Alert III. If they fuck this one up I will be very hesitant to play a game by the publisher again.

When EA devoured Westwood Studios everything went to hairy shit for the C&C series.
They better not ruin Fallout or I'm gonna become one of those fags who says they ONLY play retro games. (Gosh golly yeah what a pretentious teenage generalisation/Rockmanism)
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Lyndon on April 09, 2008, 06:17:08 pm
I hope they satisfy your needs.

Why is it that people assume that they will 'fuck it up'?

Personally I think Elder Scrolls are better games than Fallout anyway...
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 10, 2008, 06:36:43 am
About the camera: from an interview I found

Quote
the game is fully playable in third person. You can run around, adventure, get into combat (”run and gun”) etc. all in third person, and the camera was designed to accommodate that kind of gameplay, unlike the third-person camera in Oblivion, which was more of a “vanity mode.”

You can zoom the camera back pretty far in third-person, but there comes a point where it becomes less and less effective the farther back you pull the camera, just because you’re so damn small and it’s hard to gauge where the crosshair is at that point. So yeah, you can use third-person for combat, but the game wasn’t really designed to be played with the camera pulled ALL the way back, isometric style. That’s more for fun, and to survey the scene. It’s really no different than any game that lets you zoom a third-person camera back.

A couple other points of clarification:

– When you enter dialogue, the camera zooms into first-person.
– When you enter V.A.T.S. the camera zooms into first-person.

If you were in third-person when you went into one of those mode, you’re back in third-person when you come out.

Unlike Oblivion, the game was designed around the 3rd person viewpoint.  Obviously the further you zoom out the harder it is to effectively judge depth and distance but the game's combat sounds very much like Mass Effect which (despite a few bugs and dumb AI) was a pretty solid combat system.

Also, it's been confirmed that there's about 200 endings.  I'm certain these aren't COMPLETE ORIGINAL endings but like in Fallout, your choices will determine how the world evolves after you beat the game. 

Oh yeah, addictions and diseases are in the game.  Apparently you can actually spread diseases but this hasn't been OFFICIALLY confirmed yet.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Dead Phoenix on April 10, 2008, 07:52:07 am
About the camera: from an interview I found

Unlike Oblivion, the game was designed around the 3rd person viewpoint.  Obviously the further you zoom out the harder it is to effectively judge depth and distance but the game's combat sounds very much like Mass Effect which (despite a few bugs and dumb AI) was a pretty solid combat system.
Yeah this was said in like the second interview ever. speaking of interviews, though I do try to keep up with all the latest fallout 3 info, I usually avoid the boards, so I believe I missed the Karma one you were talking about, do you have a link to that one?  While Mass Effect's battle system was solid, I personally spent most of my time in battle using my powers(I've only played as a sentinel so far), which Fallout 3 won't have, though i suppose vats may provide similar effects on occasions.  Of course, I would have preferred turned-based combat(or real time/turnbased hybird, like Fallout Tactics or Kotor) the maybe my main tactic would have been something other then 'stand behind the wall right in front of the entrance for cover and wait for the enemy to poke its head out'.  Also maybe then I'd actually get full control of the party, lack of which being my main complaint with FO1 and 2, something the Van Buren beta looked like it was gonna fix, Fallout Tactics style, and fallout 3 seems to be completely ignoring(all you get is dogmeat and one merc last i heard).

Quote
Also, it's been confirmed that there's about 200 endings.  I'm certain these aren't COMPLETE ORIGINAL endings but like in Fallout, your choices will determine how the world evolves after you beat the game.
They still got their work cut out for them, Fallout 1 had about double that and 2 had about 500. Much better then the 16 they originally said they had planned at least.

Quote
Oh yeah, addictions and diseases are in the game.  Apparently you can actually spread diseases but this hasn't been OFFICIALLY confirmed yet.
I hope that includes STDs, that would make getting the Gigolo title so much more interesting.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: HL on April 10, 2008, 06:50:02 pm
http://pc.ign.com/articles/865/865461p1.html

Fallout MMORPG confirmed...
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Jester on April 10, 2008, 07:02:42 pm
oh MY GOD THEY ARE GOING TO TRY AND CONTINUE EARTHWORM JIM
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 10, 2008, 07:19:48 pm
This article talks about karma (http://tech.uk.msn.com/features/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6666856)

Quote
They still got their work cut out for them, Fallout 1 had about double that and 2 had about 500. Much better then the 16 they originally said they had planned at least.

They originally said 9 to 12 but they said they were unique endings.  Like I said earlier, the endings in the first games were just short sentences that gave you a small little epilogue.  These guys are talking about actual endings where all of your actions come together to form a cinema or cutscene.  As much as I liked knowing how my actions affected the world at the end of the game, the Fallout games never did have proper endings (well, if you have bloody mess in Fallout 1 the 2 minute ending was much more satisfying) but I wanted an actual cinematic SOMETHING to go along with all the story events I had to blast my way through.

Which boils it all down to how the game is advancing.  Fallout 3 will be a much more story driven cinematic game.  The way the intro alone is handled can tell you that much. 
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Rowain on April 10, 2008, 07:45:56 pm
http://pc.ign.com/articles/865/865461p1.html

Fallout MMORPG confirmed...

confirmed in the sense that a company that hasn't really produced anything notable in the last DECADE is desperately begging for a ridiculous amount of money to work on something they personally ADMIT TO THE PEOPLE INVESTING IN THEM might not ever even be released.

This has Star Trek: The MMORPG written all over it (though at least the Star Trek MMO was actually on track for a release at some point last I checked)

I didn't mean to attack your post, just the announcement. It sounds really desperate and frankly a little depressing, though perhaps that is just the wording. I liked MDK and Earthworm Jim as much as the next guy but I think their chances are pretty slim.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Shinan on April 10, 2008, 08:56:20 pm
*insert fallout fanboy, anti-fallout 3 rant here*
I'm one of these people. I agree with nearly everything on the NMA (http://www.nma-fallout.com/) mainpage (whatever overly hateful stuff there is on the forum I might disagree with. Sometimes). But the concerns on the mainpage are valid ones as far as I'm concerned.

I stopped following FO3 news some time ago (since nothing new ever came up and the only things that did come up were something new and dumb the designers had said), but it seems it will be hailed as a 5/5 top star ranking game and then a couple of months later the next similar game will have comments like "Though Fallout 3 was flawed the <developers> are promising to fix all the problems that were so prevalent in FO3". When they did months earlier give the game a full score claiming stuff like "FO3 is virtually flawless", "A 10/10 game. I don't think it gets better than this".

I don't think FO3 will be a shit game. I think it won't be what fans want. At all.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 10, 2008, 09:20:29 pm
Quote
I didn't mean to attack your post, just the announcement. It sounds really desperate and frankly a little depressing, though perhaps that is just the wording. I liked MDK and Earthworm Jim as much as the next guy but I think their chances are pretty slim.

It is depressing.  Interplay is one of the oldest companies around but they caught the SEGA disease and suddenly forgot how to market to gamers.  Rather than try to invent a new franchise they just relied on their old TSR/Shiny dealings but people were too busy playing Halo and Civilization 3 to care.  They tried to expand to consoles but it was too late and 50 million dollars worth of debt smacked them in the face.

This is pretty much their final gamble.  They're almost out of the hole and could come back with a new franchise but man, if Fallout MMO fails the company is finished.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 10, 2008, 09:45:17 pm
Here's an up-to-date article from someone who actually played the game (as of a few days ago) (http://kotaku.com/378147/growing-up-with-fallout-3)

I'm dissapointed he didn't mention anything about dialog but I'm glad the combat system isn't a mindless run-n-gun and attributes and stats still play effect in battle.

Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 10, 2008, 10:06:53 pm
I'm glad the combat system isn't a mindless run-n-gun and attributes and stats still play effect in battle.

Did you ever honestly doubt this?

I don't think FO3 will be a shit game. I think it won't be what fans want. At all.

What is really sad about this is that many Fallout fans have decided to hate this game ahead of time.  Even if it *is* exactly what fans have wanted, they will all change their opinions the second they play it.  It's more important to be upset than it is to have fun I guess!
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Rowain on April 10, 2008, 10:09:41 pm
I don't think FO3 will be a shit game. I think it won't be what fans want. At all.

I think there's probably a disturbing number of fans who CHOSE to hate the game the very SECOND it was announced and that it was Bethesda behind the wheel. Which is unfortunate but also highly common with this sort of situation (the return to an old old cult classic franchise by a different developer).

There's probably a well developed niche of fanboys who want nothing more than Fallout 2 with better graphics or something.

edit: shi***t.....maladroithim posted the exact same thing as me.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: thejackyl on April 10, 2008, 11:03:51 pm
wait...  so is FO3 coming to PC also, or just the 360...
I may have to invest in a 360 if the latter is the case...  which I really don't want to do.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 10, 2008, 11:35:55 pm
Quote
Did you ever honestly doubt this?

Yes.  Bethesda's never really worked with ranged combat on this level before.  It's like asking the Halo team to make a puzzle game.

Quote
wait...  so is FO3 coming to PC also, or just the 360...
PC, PS3, 360.  The game will be using DIRECTX10 on the PC.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 15, 2008, 04:58:55 am
Fallout 3 Collector's Edition

(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/angryblackguy/vaultbox.webp)
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Roman on April 15, 2008, 05:25:35 am
i've never played a fallout game before so i think this looks sweet as hell

also if they accurately reproduce the streets of dc that would be so awesome because then i would already know my way around the game
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 15, 2008, 03:05:00 pm
Fallout 3 Collector's Edition

AWESOME IMAGE

Is this for real?  Because holy crap man I am pretty sure I would actually buy that for the $30 premium or whatever.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Sludgelord on April 15, 2008, 03:41:01 pm
What is really sad about this is that many Fallout fans have decided to hate this game ahead of time.  Even if it *is* exactly what fans have wanted, they will all change their opinions the second they play it.  It's more important to be upset than it is to have fun I guess!
a large part of the reason people like fallout is because of the character depth (idk if this is the right term, because there really wasn't that much depth!) and dialogue. the characters were pretty fun to talk to, but even more than that, they were worth talking to! every character added something to the game and atmosphere that made them enjoyable. i have played all four elder scrolls games and aside from that crazy elf in oblivion, bethesda has never made a memorable character, or even a character that was anything more than a receptacle for quests. i don't give a shit about the isometic battle system and i doubt that anyone who really got fallout cares about it either (i think first/third person could be pretty cool actually). what i'm skeptical about is bethesda's ability to make enjoyable characters and dialogue, because they have failed in every previous attempt. i'm still going to check it out, but i am not as enthusiastic about it as i would like to be!

also the head developer or whatever said this was oblivion with guns and i think oblivion was a pretty terrible game.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: local_dunce on April 15, 2008, 04:18:09 pm
I hope they base this game off the PS2 Fallout Brotherhood of Steel.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 15, 2008, 04:32:47 pm
a large part of the reason people like fallout is because of the character depth (idk if this is the right term, because there really wasn't that much depth!) and dialogue. the characters were pretty fun to talk to, but even more than that, they were worth talking to! every character added something to the game and atmosphere that made them enjoyable. i have played all four elder scrolls games and aside from that crazy elf in oblivion, bethesda has never made a memorable character, or even a character that was anything more than a receptacle for quests. i don't give a shit about the isometic battle system and i doubt that anyone who really got fallout cares about it either (i think first/third person could be pretty cool actually). what i'm skeptical about is bethesda's ability to make enjoyable characters and dialogue, because they have failed in every previous attempt. i'm still going to check it out, but i am not as enthusiastic about it as i would like to be!

also the head developer or whatever said this was oblivion with guns and i think oblivion was a pretty terrible game.

Yeah seriously man I totally agree that the characters in Oblivion were incredibly half-baked and terrible.  The game was so cookie-cutter that I almost wonder if the entire game was a joke but I suspect video games are not as self-aware as films and novels are.  The expansion had a few slightly more memorable characters but the characterization was certainly slim there too.  Morrowind did somewhat well with at least one or two characters whose names and roles in the story I can remember.

I don't know though I'm confident that Bathesda is as capable of employing competent writers as Black Isle and Interplay were so I am not particularly worried.  Part of what drug down Oblivion's characterization was that there was a conscious decision on the part of the developers to make an outrageously generic game.  I thought it was pretty fun but it certainly didn't have any personality!  Elder Scrolls is specifically *about* being lame and uninteresting after all.  If the same writing staff is instructed to write in a consciously creative way, maybe they will be more successful.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: jamie on April 15, 2008, 07:51:56 pm
man when i think about the potential a game like oblivion has. i was playing it a little earlier and you find yourself attributing personalities to the npcs walking about based on like an inflection they make in some word because there is really cool stuff wanting to happen in these conversations but yeah the game is so generic most of the time it is really frustrating.

i think a lot of the enjoyment i get from these games is out of my own imagination, not actually what is in the games. maybe fallout 3 will be better in this way, i hope so. i'm gonna get it pretty much definitely, unless i hear really really bad things.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 16, 2008, 02:57:20 am
Is this for real?  Because holy crap man I am pretty sure I would actually buy that for the $30 premium or whatever.

Yes, it is real.  GameStop has it up for preorder and a tentative release date of Oct 7.  It comes with a 100 page hardcover art book in the original Fallout style (the original Fallout manual was one of the best manuals ever conceived) and it comes with a 6" vaultboy bobblehead for 80 simoleans.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 16, 2008, 03:33:41 am
Yes, it is real.  GameStop has it up for preorder and a tentative release date of Oct 7.  It comes with a 100 page hardcover art book in the original Fallout style (the original Fallout manual was one of the best manuals ever conceived) and it comes with a 6" vaultboy bobblehead for 80 simoleans.

I never got a manual with Fallout because I got into the games once the double pack was available for $10.  It's a bummer that the manual was really cool and I missed out :(
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Ash on April 16, 2008, 04:06:53 am
Boy I hope the pre-order bundle is available in Canada because I most certainly want that lunchbox.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Marcus on April 16, 2008, 04:10:54 am
I never got a manual with Fallout because I got into the games once the double pack was available for $10.  It's a bummer that the manual was really cool and I missed out :(

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd86/THEREALCRUNK/VAULTTECH2.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd86/THEREALCRUNK/VAULTTECH3.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd86/THEREALCRUNK/VAULTTECH4.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd86/THEREALCRUNK/VAULTTECH5.jpg)

Aside from telling you how to play the game it had in depth back history, gave you a worse case scenario style survival guide, and had a bunch of Red Scare style propaganda and advertisements for the Vault.  The manual was designed like a survival guide and read like something Mel Brooks or Terry Gilliam would have wrote.  It was awesome and game packaging has gone so down hill after 2000 when PC games started coming in dinky mini-boxes where the cd's would be packaged in crappy paper sleeves with a pdf manual.  Blech.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: maladroithim on April 16, 2008, 02:40:16 pm
Aside from telling you how to play the game it had in depth back history, gave you a worse case scenario style survival guide, and had a bunch of Red Scare style propaganda and advertisements for the Vault.  The manual was designed like a survival guide and read like something Mel Brooks or Terry Gilliam would have wrote.  It was awesome and game packaging has gone so down hill after 2000 when PC games started coming in dinky mini-boxes where the cd's would be packaged in crappy paper sleeves with a pdf manual.  Blech.

That's a pretty awesome manual.  The writing is not actually that great but the attitude is there and it's certainly unique.

Most newer PC games have spindles in the box but yeah it's really a bummer when you buy Neverwinter Nights 2 and it comes in a cardboard box with the game in a paper sleeve.  Usually it's no problem to swap PC games but when I make the terrible mistake of playing NW2 it takes way longer than it should (a full minute!) to get the box open and the game in its sleeve.
Title: New Fallout 3 info
Post by: Raimiette on April 16, 2008, 10:21:37 pm
Oh I am so excited for this game!

I love Oblivion and love the atmosphere and story of Fallout so it'll be really neat to see how it all comes together.

Also that limited edition looks great but we don't have any Gamespot's around here so I think I'm out of luck.