Gaming World Forums
Archives => GW Blog => Community Content => Blog: Games => Topic started by: HL on April 06, 2008, 02:00:36 pm
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I think anyone who has played an RPG knows what to expect from the healer:
-So-so/low defense
-So-so/low HP
-High Intelligence (or related stat)
-Low Strength (or related stat)
-Healing Spell
-Slightly Stronger Healing Spell
-Even Stronger Healing Spell
-Very weak all party healing spell
-Slightly stronger weak all party healing spell
-Even stronger weak all party healing spell
-Remove status ailments spell
-Possibly holy damage spell
-+Defense Spell
-+Magic Defense Spell
-+Both of the above spell
WOW SO BORING. This pretty much covers every healer in the history of videogame RPGs. EVER.
Hell, even in MMORPG's your healer looks like this:
-same stats as above
-weak instant cast heal
-slightly stronger longer cast heal
-big ass long cast heal
-HUGE heal instant cast but long recharge time (oh shit button)
-debuff removers
-a spell to make someone invincible
this is basically a Priest in World of Warcraft, the most subscribed MMORPG.
Why??
Why do videogame RPGs constantly subscribe us to this boring archaic template? Must I be forced to play Dungeons & Dragons just for the opportunity to play a non-boring healing class? Why can no one find a way to make this archetype different after nearly 30 yrs?
Guild Wars, personally, has the best healing class I've seen in a game ever, since they have various skills that allows for various playtypes. I still say the Boonprot in that game is probably the best healing class I've ever seen. Basically, they use a buff on all their allies that reduces the damage they take by 1/2, and redirects that damage to the monk (and lowers it by a bit), and they use a skill that gives them Energy (Mana) whenever they take damage (including from the previous skill.) So now whenever your allies get hit the monk gets fueled with energy. To add to this, the Monk uses a skill which makes all his healing spells cost more, but they heal more, and then a few abilities to protect/lightly heal his allies. Then there's Blessed Signet, the skill that makes this build really cool to play imho. Basically, with it you gain a bunch of energy, but it has a long cast time so you have to be very careful with it or you might get interrupted. It's a very very strong if frail healing template, but it's unique in that it relies on your allies getting hit to some degree.
So, let's discuss! Do you think videogame RPGs are forever doomed to the likes of Cure1, Cure2, and Cure3? If you're making a game in RPG Maker and looking at this: are you doing anything differently to mix this up? What would you like to see done (if anything) to healers, or are you ok with this repetitive healing system? Talk about an RPG you played that didn't follow this system (I'd love to play them).
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I guess some games could use a Cleric type from D&D and other non-video games. They're like fight with maces and healing magic. They are the ONLY healers in those games as a matter of fact. But that's interesting and it may give me something to think about for my future game ideas... 8) Don't know about others though... it seems to be the norm to have a weak healer. Hrm....
Jeremy
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uh.. i love being a priest. its fun deciding if people live or die, and having such an important role.
so yeah i guess it is for people who enjoy being a very core role. ya, all the classes are important, but you never hear people say DO NOT PISS OFF THE ROGUE or DO NOT PISS OFF THE BARD, it all revolves around the priest.
that is why i like priest, anyway.
edit: not all classes are for everyone. you seem to think they have to change the class to make them all fun for you.. but.. they dont. i hate rogue and have never got one past level 10, but some people love it. i also hate blacksmithing, but i dont think they should change the profession to suit me because a lot of people like it the way it is??
its the same with everything, not just mmo classes. i dislike sports games, but a lot of people like them, so its good they dont change them. yeah, this is kind of an extreme analogy, but w/e
so yeah basically the healer class isnt boring.. for everyone. it is, however, boring for a lot of people, but thats why you roll druid or warrior or whatever class you like more.
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uh.. i love being a priest. its fun deciding if people live or die, and having such an important role.
so yeah i guess it is for people who enjoy being a very core role. ya, all the classes are important, but you never hear people say DO NOT PISS OFF THE ROGUE or DO NOT PISS OFF THE BARD, it all revolves around the priest.
that is why i like priest, anyway.
edit: not all classes are for everyone. you seem to think they have to change the class to make them all fun for you.. but.. they dont. i hate rogue and have never got one past level 10, but some people love it. i also hate blacksmithing, but i dont think they should change the profession to suit me because a lot of people like it the way it is??
its the same with everything, not just mmo classes. i dislike sports games, but a lot of people like them, so its good they dont change them. yeah, this is kind of an extreme analogy, but w/e
so yeah basically the healer class isnt boring.. for everyone. it is, however, boring for a lot of people, but thats why you roll druid or warrior or whatever class you like more.
i love healing classes if it wasn't very obvious i just hate how stagnant they are and unimaginative they are. this is why i like Monk in Guild Wars they just aren't....SMALLHEAL BIGGERHEAL BIGGERHEAL OHSHITBUTTON INVINICIBILITY DEBUFF REMOVER.....they actually tried to branch out and make something new.
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Damn. I feel guilty as charged. After reading this post I feel like I need to spice the healer in the group up.
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They're the most useful character, end of story.
I have a few healers in my game, but they have to be able to attack for my battle system. You're allowed I'm aiming for a FF12's basic battle system, FF11's enemy hate system, and a mix of the Sphere Grid and FFTactics styled jobs for development. Hopefully you're to customize them into what you want.
I am trying to have a few different kinds of healers though. So far I've got three, Paladins, Alchemists, and Judges. The Paladin works best as a non-attacking tank who can heal himself best. The Alchemists is great at healing everyone quickly. With effort, they make great attackers because they have guns. (This one probably follows the guide the most.) The Judges (I call them Judges) can heal everyone too, but not as well as the second. They instead gives you stat boost like Haste, and Slow, but also Null-Fire, Attack Up, etc. They don't really follow the guide because they carry swords and heavy armor too.
I want to have twelve classes overall. I might add another pure Priest like the guide says, but that didn't work too well in FF12 imo.
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Well, in response to why nobody seems to have figured out how to make healing classes more interesting in 30 years, it is because the healer is the key to the entire group, especially in MMOs. That means that if your healer is bad then you will probably (definitely) lose whatever you are doing that requires a group. Therefore it is in the best interests of game developers to make the healing class simple to understand. I agree that the Guild Wars monk seems to be rather fun, but it is also a complicated class and veterans of other games will have to learn a new system moreso than just learning which names correspond to the spells they are used to.
I happen to be a healer in all the MMOs I have ever played and I very much enjoy the boring healer template class, not because it is amazingly fun to play -- though I don't really have a problem with it since it is so simple I can practically tune out and my group will not suffer for it -- but because of they prestige that comes with it. Being such a required class and one that is viewed as boring and unlikable, you are likely to be one of a small minority of players, especially in higher levels, that can perform that required task, making you a valuable commodity. I have always been able to have fun with the social aspect of everyone wanting me in their group or guild or whatever, especially when you are skilled or at least passable. Back when I played World of Warcraft, being moderately skilled and at a high level catapulted me to the main healer in the guild, which meant I got pretty much free pick of loot and a good deal of say in affairs. I knew better healers than me on other servers, so it wasn't because I was SUPER GODLY HEALER, but it was simply because I was there and ready to play.
So yeah, boring class, if you don't enjoy weird stuff like watching peoples life gauges go up and down like I do, but you can also have more fun in the social realm of MMOs, which is a huge part of them. I would rather be a boring priest any day than "just another dps class" regardless of how innovative or fun those classes might be.
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Anyone who's played a cleric in DnD would, at some point hopefully, dual-class to make up for what the cleric lacks. I've dual-classed cleric/ranger and cleric/fighters before, though cleric/fighter is my preference.
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As important as they are in RPGs, I also agree they're quite boring to play. I just feel so passive. I prefer the medic class in FPS games since even though you still may not be as strong as other classes, you can still do respectable damage, and you're actually expected to fight when necessary. Though last I played wow, a shadow priest was pretty awesome in PvP, albeit near useless for PvE.
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I've always liked the clerics in the Champions games since they're capable of casting attack spells and equipping blunt weapons, like maces, not just staves. They're not entirely useless, in fact, in Return to Arms they're one of the best classes in the game.
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I've always liked the clerics in the Champions games since they're capable of casting attack spells and equipping blunt weapons, like maces, not just staves. They're not entirely useless, in fact, in Return to Arms they're one of the best classes in the game.
Hell yeah they own. They don't do much healing at all, they just do wtfpwn.
EDIT:
Jeff:
But why should a class be boring for the sake of being boring? Just so few people will play it and so you can feel important? Even though the Monk in Guild Wars is hella fun, very few people play them but it isn't this completely boring archetype.
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One simple addition you can make to the healing class that will keep things interesting is simply more buff/supportive-type skills for your party and even a few debuffs for the enemies. People typically like spells that pump up a character's base stats as long as it is noticeable and worthwhile. Having spells like "stop" and so forth can be revamped a bit to have higher hit-rate (nothing like a useless skill that always misses), but during bosses maybe make it last a shorter amount of time or lower the hit-rate. Another issue that comes up a lot is balance. For instance, I'd want to use my healer to heal often, but if -- to use familiar FF items -- Ethers cost a fortune, it's much easier to just stock up on Potions for recovery and not even use your MP.
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I always thought it was just a balance thing... Generally in RPGs the stats and stuff are always weighted so that no one member of any party should be unduly powerful (or that's the idea, anyway). Since healers are the ones who are potentially able to survive any attack and live forever, giving them any kind of high attack or whatever could result in an unstoppable character. So basically, the whole healer thing comes under 'boring but functional'...
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This is one of those "if it aint broke, don't fix it" deals. People tried to do something different with the healer clases before with hybrid classes.... but these archetypes exist for a reason. They work. There is no way to hybrid a class like a healer without making it totally imba. There are ways of making them diverse enough to differ greatly between one healer class and another though... which is nice. Even though they all fall under the same category that you listed... the difference are enough to provide you (and your party ) with completely different experiences while playing with/ them.