Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on April 25, 2008, 03:19:54 pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting
This makes me so fucking angry. I've been following the case since it happened.
argh I cannot seriously believe a testimony like "well it looked like he was gonna pull a gun" when he PHYSICALLY COULDN'T BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE slid through.
all cops are garbage discuss.
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shit i haven't followed this at all but i don't understand going by that article how that is NOT excessive force
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I remember hearing about this a year and a half ago.
This pretty upsetting. I mean, it may be understandable that if they thought he had a gun and shot ONCE OR TWICE. But fifty shots? That's absolutely ridiculous.
I haven't read the article yet because I'm short on time, so I'm not sure how the court justified their decision except KEEPING THE STREETS SAFE. I don't know, I think north america over-values police officers.
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50 shots? how could they possibly get off after firing fifty shots at an unarmed guy?
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PATRIOT ACT
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Yeah I had forgotten about this case because it happened like what... a couple years ago? That's fucking horrible though.
Lemme guess the cops are........ white?
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of course they are.
50 fucking shots. 9 more than Amadou Diallo.
New York has the worst fucking cops in the world.
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Sure, it's easy to cast stones from the sidelines and complain about trifling details like how this whole thing was 'completely unjustified' and 'a grotesque mockery of the law', but I think people forget one very important fact: cops really, REALLY enjoy shooting people. Whether with tasers, rubber bullets, or good-ol'-fashioned handguns, there is no end to the happy, carefree joy that the police can get from popping innocent civilians in the face... So who are we to deny them this simple pleasure?
Interestingly enough, I think the first time I read about this was when it was printed right next to an article about how a new bill meant police in Northern Ireland would be legally able to shoot teenagers if they thought they might be armed... I had to laugh out loud.
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Sure, it's easy to cast stones from the sidelines and complain about trifling details like how this whole thing was 'completely unjustified' and 'a grotesque mockery of the law', but I think people forget one very important fact: cops really, REALLY enjoy shooting people. Whether with tasers, rubber bullets, or good-ol'-fashioned handguns, there is no end to the happy, carefree joy that the police can get from popping innocent civilians in the face... So who are we to deny them this simple pleasure?
Interestingly enough, I think the first time I read about this was when it was printed right next to an article about how a new bill meant police in Northern Ireland would be legally able to shoot teenagers if they thought they might be armed... I had to laugh out loud.
at first I was seriously worried that I was going to have to retract my CATAMITES IS A GREAT NEW MEMBER statement but thank god.
btw some of you know I don't have a TV; is this on the news at all?
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50 shots? how could they possibly get off after firing fifty shots at an unarmed guy?
Because he was black.. raising his threat value by a shit ton yo.
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Yeah... I caught this on TruTV earlier today and I can't believe what I saw.
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btw some of you know I don't have a TV; is this on the news at all?
It was all over MSNBC and CNN this morning.
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Uh, aren't one of the cops black? I don't remember here guys.
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seems like you must be right.
black cops just as racist as whites!
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Interestingly enough, I think the first time I read about this was when it was printed right next to an article about how a new bill meant police in Northern Ireland would be legally able to shoot teenagers if they thought they might be armed... I had to laugh out loud.
When I was in Ireland the Guardia didn't have guns; did that change, or are there just armed units?
Also the Guardia not having guns was apparently one of the reasons they are a joke and completely unable to regulate the drunk crowd at night.
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That's pretty sick. I don't understand how they could possibly get away with it. I imagine most news stations are going to barely cover it and then just slide it under the carpet.
What in the world was the jury/judge's reasoning on why it wasn't excessive force? Shit, I could understand if they were like 50' away or something and kept pursuing him, but they actually cornered him and kept shooting him, right?
EDIT: Read the article. Holy crap. Come on. I could understand the one officer who shot four shots -- that's reasonable if he thought they were armed and there were three of them (albeit I know it was still rushed), but the other two. Holy shit. Unloading one clip, swapping it out, then unloading again... This would NOT have happened if they jury had decided their fates.
--Terin
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fuck da police
also, rev. al sharpton just fired up a bunch of people at a live news conference, telling people to practice their right to civil disobedience and protest and going outside the judge's home and shit
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Uh, aren't one of the cops black? I don't remember here guys.
cop shot cop shot cop shot black cop white cop all cop
(every police is a punk ass bitch)
seriously though, it would make sense if there was a black cop there, it's all part of police strategy. all the police want is for black people to kill each other. that's their mission statement. if sean bell had a gun, and there was a gun battle, everyone except for the white 50 would have died, because thats the whitey would have played it.
also didn't this dude get shot in the back and wasn't he carrying a baby/mother teresa
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50 shots fired with no justification, and the cops are acquitted. Typical. This upsets me considerably - there are countless cases I've heard about lately where the police were obviously wrong yet were still cleared of any charges. The police are supposed to protect the public, and MOST of them do, and I have tons of respect for them for it. It's the bad calls like this however that make it so hard for so many people to trust law enforcement.
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I'm surprised more people aren't upset by this or that this isn't plastered all over the news. This is far worse than what happened to Rodney King and people rioted over that shit.
I think the thing that provoked the Rodney King riots was that there was a video.
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"I yelled 'Gun!' and fired," he said. "In my mind, I knew (Guzman) had a gun."
Whoops, looks like you maybe were wrong.
I'm surprised more people aren't upset by this or that this isn't plastered all over the news.
Right now, on FOX news: A perky blonde is speaking with a man in Kentucky via phone about how he is protesting high gas prices by riding a horse. We leave this story and go to a story about how the Reverend Wright, the man who called the this country the United States of the KKK (Their words, not mine), is now saying that he was taken out of context.
Right now, on CNN: The Detectives giving a press conference. The black one thanks God and Jesus, the Judge for rendering a fair and just verdict, and his family. The second thanks his family, attorney, and the Judge for rendering a fair and just verdict. The other black one says sorry to Bell's family, which is... nice of him? He then proceeds to thanks God, the DA, the attorneys, his family, his colleagues. It sounds like an acceptance speech on an awards show. The Police Spokesperson talks about how cops have to deal with difficult situations (in this case, ones such as facing unarmed black folk), the head of the New York NAACP says that this was a gross injustice and somehow works the word "crap" into it, and then we leave this nasty business and cut to a story about Reverend Wright sitting down with Bill Moyer.
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When I was in Ireland the Guardia didn't have guns; did that change, or are there just armed units?
Also the Guardia not having guns was apparently one of the reasons they are a joke and completely unable to regulate the drunk crowd at night.
The Gardai still don't have guns, but they're the Republic of Ireland police force... The armed ones are the Northern Ireland (seperate from the Republic) cops, who apparantly sport a Glock 17 on all patrols, as well as occasionally carrying rifles, carbines, and extendable batons. And given Northern Ireland's history when it comes to what constitutes justifiable force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)), well, you kinda have to wonder about the advisability of giving their police force the ability to shoot any kids they deem sufficently suspicious-looking.
And maybe the Gardai not having guns does make them inefficent, but to be honest I'd rather have inefficent police than actively homicidal police.
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When I was in Ireland the Guardia didn't have guns; did that change, or are there just armed units?
Northern Ireland. The Police Service of Northern Ireland is the only regional police force in the UK to routinely carry firearms. As far as I know the Garda have had armed units for a long time, but don't routinely carry firearms.
EDIT: Damn you catamites. However, the Bloody Sunday of 1972 didn't involve the Ulster police, a British Army unit from the mainland fired on the protesters.
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what blows me away is this:
the officers approach the car, weapons drawn, still undercover. Allegedly, they don't reveal that they are officers. So the guys in the car begins to freak out, as one would expect when three guys with guns approach your cars. This is a sign to begin shooting?
rough stuff.
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I've been following the case since it happened.
I remember asking you if you knew who Sean Bell was because he was mentioned in Ridin' Overseas and you said you didn't know.
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yeah I didn't know his name at the time and then looked it up and was like OH THIS! because I knew the case but not the guy's name.
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gonna puke
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Fifty bullets?
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what blows me away is this:
the officers approach the car, weapons drawn, still undercover. Allegedly, they don't reveal that they are officers. So the guys in the car begins to freak out, as one would expect when three guys with guns approach your cars. This is a sign to begin shooting?
rough stuff.
Agreed. He could've thought they were going to rob him, or kill him or something.
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Right now, on FOX news: A perky blonde is speaking with a man in Kentucky via phone about how he is protesting high gas prices by riding a horse.
Chances are unless he was in one of the bigger cities he probably rode a horse anyway. I've almost hit horses several times because people are riding them down the middle of a road with blind curves everywhere. Fuck, people who don't have room for a LARGE DOG sometimes keep horses here, I'd say this guy just wanted news attention.
Tons of tractors being ridden down the road too.
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I would like to say btw I am very proud of GW. it took THREE POSTS on SA before someone said AH BUT COPS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL (WHEN APPROACHING UNARMED SUSPECTS) AND DID YOU KNOW RODNEY KING COMMITTED CRIMES BEFORE? you guys made me feel good :)
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I would like to say btw I am very proud of GW. it took THREE POSTS on SA before someone said AH BUT COPS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL (WHEN APPROACHING UNARMED SUSPECTS) AND DID YOU KNOW RODNEY KING COMMITTED CRIMES BEFORE? you guys made me feel good :)
that thread in gbs was the worst thing I ever read, it literally made me sick to think that people are actually like YEAH WELL THEY NEED TO LEARN BETTER TRIGGER DISCIPLINE AND SUCH or YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'D DO IN THE SAME SITUATION GUYS IT WAS US OR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, this is a situation that requires civil disobedience, I am kind of sad that pretty much nothing is going on because of this.
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No matter if the guy was armed or not, nothing excuses two officers shooting a man fifty times. This is utterly disgusting.
Not only is it unlawful, but it's just disgraceful. I could understand the police officers not being punished to the full extent, but something should've been done.
I hope that they at least lose their jobs - they're obviously not fit to be police officers if they're so trigger happy.
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"With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers said they believed they were the ones under fire."
wow, this is such bullshit. they were the ones shooting and they thought they were UNDER FIRE? and then proceeded to fill up the guy with 50 bullets?
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They're lucky it was a black guy and not a mexican. If it was a mexican the whole country would be economically fucked.
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they won't lose their job, it's the blue shield of silence.
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Fifty bullets? Really now. Was that necessary?
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Any bullets? Really now. Was that necessary?
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I never followed this case because this isn't the FIRST time a cop has been charged for being trigger happy (remember the dude with the cell phone 5 or 6 years ago?) but I'm still totally confused how you can hit a single CAR with 50 bullets.
The 9mm has an ammo capacity of 15 and detective whatever reportedly shot 31 of the bullets that hit Sean. This means that he had to have RELOADED TWICE (not once as his testimony said). Police aren't even supposed to shoot into cars.
I don't think police are scum but I do believe undercover agents are total crap. Those guys spend so much time on the line that they become paranoid and then shit like this happens. Every UC should go through a monthly psych eval because being among criminals for so long is probably really damaging on the mind.
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you're doing a pretty poor job of living up to your name here marcus
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holy shit marcus just solved the case
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you're doing a pretty poor job of living up to your name here marcus
shit...
DEM WHITE COPS DONE SHOT MAH NIGGA! THAT'S RACIST!
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Yeah, this whole incident was really fucked up, there was no reason at all to fire 50 shots. :tsk:
And I know Marcus' last post was a joke in response to H-W's comment, but I do have to clear one thing, as this is a response to some of the other comments:
Only one of the cops involved in the shooting was white. Out of the five, two were black, one was middle-eastern, one was white and the other was haitian-mexican. This doesn't change jack-all about whether the shooting is justifiable or not, it's a bad enough travesty without bringing out the whole race bullshit. That's all, the rest I'm not touching with a fucking 500 foot pole.
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The thing that still amazes me is why undercover policemen are carrying ammo in the first place. Having a loaded firearm is protocol but it kind of defeats the entire purpose of being undercover when you're walking around with an armory in your coat pocket.
15 bullets is more than enough if things get hot. 31 bullets (I still don't understand this math) isn't.
EDIT: Actually, there's only ONE WAY he could have fired 31 shots with an M9 (assuming he was wielding an M9 but it's standard issue police weapon in 40 something states). You can have a full clip of 15 plus 1 round already chambered.
But that is incredibly stupid and breaks all protocol that I know of. I dunno if New York has some crazy lenient rules regarding weapon safety but you're supposed to have a condition 3 weapon when walking around which is slide forward, chamber empty, weapon on safe. I guess New York only believes in condition 1 weapons which is locked and loaded ready to fire at moments notice.
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Only one of the cops involved in the shooting was white. Out of the five, two were black, one was middle-eastern, one was white and the other was haitian-mexican. This doesn't change jack-all about whether the shooting is justifiable or not, it's a bad enough travesty without bringing out the whole race bullshit. That's all, the rest I'm not touching with a fucking 500 foot pole.
ew we let mexicans and terrorists be police officers? what is the world coming to i will have to fire 50 bullets about this!!!!!!
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The thing that still amazes me is why undercover policemen are carrying ammo in the first place. Having a loaded firearm is protocol but it kind of defeats the entire purpose of being undercover when you're walking around with an armory in your coat pocket.
15 bullets is more than enough if things get hot. 31 bullets (I still don't understand this math) isn't.
EDIT: Actually, there's only ONE WAY he could have fired 31 shots with an M9 (assuming he was wielding an M9 but it's standard issue police weapon in 40 something states). You can have a full clip of 15 plus 1 round already chambered.
But that is incredibly stupid and breaks all protocol that I know of. I dunno if New York has some crazy lenient rules regarding weapon safety but you're supposed to have a condition 3 weapon when walking around which is slide forward, chamber empty, weapon on safe. I guess New York only believes in condition 1 weapons which is locked and loaded ready to fire at moments notice.
so basically those guns can go off at any second
well
no loss
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I don't understand what the undercover police expect when they approach someone on the street brandishing a gun. This guy never had a chance to do anything, but an armed citizen is probably going to react defensively to an approaching gunman.
In my opinion, undercover police need to identify themselves before whipping out their pieces when there is no obvious danger.
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Isnora claimed that after he warned the men to halt, Bell pulled away in his car, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene.
i don't know what's doing on, it sounded like there was a tonne of cops (it said two that fired weren't even charged, and they had a police van along with the undercover cars or whatever)
was he hit by 50 bullets or were 50 shots fired? because both of his friends were also hit, one at least 4 times
In announcing his verdict in the non-jury trial, the judge said that the inconsistent testimony, courtroom demeanor and rap sheets of the prosecution witnesses — mainly Bell's friends — "had the effect of eviscerating" their credibility.
does this mean that he didn't believe them or that there was some sort of technical problem in the trial (like when they mess up evidence, the defendent is automatically aquitted or whatever)
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting
This makes me so fucking angry. I've been following the case since it happened.
argh I cannot seriously believe a testimony like "well it looked like he was gonna pull a gun" when he PHYSICALLY COULDN'T BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE slid through.
all cops are garbage discuss.
The "evidence" that seems to be the basis of the verdict is the least reliable part of the whole thing.
This blog pretty much sums up my own feelings, and also gives a good run down of why this verdict is pretty fucking stupid: http://blog.uslegal.com/2008/04/25/sean-bell-observed-reaching-for-a-non-existent-weapon/
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black cops just as racist as whites!
Even more so.
And I'm disgusted by this whole thing. 50 shots...geez.
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50 bullets. Man that'd even be more than enough to kill 50 cent.
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I'm not defending anyone here or anything but only the one cop went nuts with the bullets.
I got this from the Sean Bell wiki article (it has sources so it's not bullshit)
"Five of the seven officers investigating the club were involved in the shooting. Detective Paul Headley fired one round, Officer Michael Carey fired three, Officer Marc Cooper fired four, Officer Gescard Isnora fired eleven, and veteran officer Michael Oliver emptied two full magazines, firing 31 shots from a 9mm handgun and pausing to reload at least once.
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hooray two pages before the first apologist showed up.
I agree three shots at an unarmed suspect is not at all over the line especially while everyone else is shooting at him anyways.
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I'm not defending anyone here or anything but only the one cop went nuts with the bullets.
I got this from the Sean Bell wiki article (it has sources so it's not bullshit)
"Five of the seven officers investigating the club were involved in the shooting. Detective Paul Headley fired one round, Officer Michael Carey fired three, Officer Marc Cooper fired four, Officer Gescard Isnora fired eleven, and veteran officer Michael Oliver emptied two full magazines, firing 31 shots from a 9mm handgun and pausing to reload at least once.
doesnt matter because while 31 shots is absurd one is still ONE TOO MANY considering he didn't have a fucking weapon and one bullet is easily enough to kill.
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from what i've read it of the 50 bullets fired sean bell got hit eight times, that's four times in his neck and four times in his torso.
the thing about this is any defense is totally worthless from the police because he didn't have a gun and he was trying to get away. any attempt as putting this down to misinterpreting his intentions just means that they are prepared to kill someone with very little assurance that it is critical to their own survival. i mean he didn't have a gun, so they didn't see a gun.
i also don't know how wide an area this was happening in, but if they were really far away from him then it's ridiculous because why do you shoot a man eight times for glimpsing something which looks like it might be a gun at his waist (or wherever, his pocket who cares), and if it was really up close then how the fuck can you say it looked like he was going to pull a gun when you have the man right there and you could clearly identify a gun if there was one.
i don't know that much about this thing, i only looked into it because of this topic, but those are a couple of things i haven't seen mentioned here yet.
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4 times in his neck and torso
it's terrible this guy died but i also have the feeling people would look at this differently if it was framed 'Former drug dealer shot 4 times fleeing from a seedy strip club'
he drove his car into a police car, the cops were shooting to stop a car. if i was one of bell's two friends that were with him, i'd be pretty pissed off at him if he were still alive for getting me shot 19 times while he drunkenly drove his car into police.
i think i've got this idea that cops can shoot you for near nothing though, like when they run? in new zealand we chase them.
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Apparently there was some sort of protest going on today, and Al Sharpton, the two other guys that were with Bell, and Bell's fiance were arrested.
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it's terrible this guy died but i also have the feeling people would look at this differently if it was framed 'Former drug dealer shot 4 times fleeing from a seedy strip club'
yeah but that's despicable and only FOX NEWS would have the cojones to play it like that. the fact is an innocent man was killed for nothing, and that's where the rightful emphasis was placed.
also Sharpton did the same thing during the Diallo shooting.
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he drove his car into a police car, just because he didn't have a gun didn't mean he wasn't harmful
aren't american cops allowed to like, shout 'HEY STOP' then start shooting?
he was a suspicious guy in a suspicious place and he drove his car repeatedly into police vehicles
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...do you know anything about the case?
they approached his car with DRAWN WEAPONS dude of course you get the fuck out of there. some reports say they started firing as they left their cars.
there was no warning and they were undercover and not clearly cops.
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yeah what probably happened is a bunch of undercover cops decided to blow their cover and risk their lives because they felt like killing a black man
i can put myself in the cops shoes i can't put myself in seans shoes. he was about to go drink-driving btw
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...cops are the most racist fucking people on the planet, yeah. amadou diallo okay. 41 shots for a man pulling out his passport.
they approached a man's car GUNS DRAWN, and by some accounts ALREADY FIRING. by almost all accounts they had no warning and didn't say they were cops.
climbtree I do not care but if you are seriously telling me three dudes walking towards your car with guns drawn wouldn't make you peel the fuck out of a parking lot you're completely goddam insane.
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man i just watched like 25 cops of whatever beat up those dudes on the news and i've lost all defense for american police
in new zealand cops are tops, something is wrong with america.
gta4 is having a bad influence on the police
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seriouspost fuck the police