Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: otomon on April 27, 2008, 11:33:54 pm
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Man I love Persona 3! I got so hooked that I went around doing research and found out my Arcana and my Persona,turns out my Persona is Deimos[Devil ][/Devil]
What about you folks?
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I bought Persona 3 when it first came out and never even removed the plastic. I just bought Persona 3 FES and kinda sorta feel like playing it but with GTAIV coming out in 2 days I'm far from motivated.
Am I missing anything? Is this game awesome on the same level as Persona 2 because reviews seem to be pretty mixed and I definitely DO NOT like the idea of playing as Japanese emo teenagers who proceed through a demonic Hogwarts (yet still have time to play awkward dating mini-games, note passing, and finish classes).
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I bought Persona 3 when it first came out and never even removed the plastic. I just bought Persona 3 FES and kinda sorta feel like playing it but with GTAIV coming out in 2 days I'm far from motivated.
Am I missing anything? Is this game awesome on the same level as Persona 2 because reviews seem to be pretty mixed and I definitely DO NOT like the idea of playing as Japanese emo teenagers who proceed through a demonic Hogwarts (yet still have time to play awkward dating mini-games, note passing, and finish classes).
I have only played Persona 1(which sucked balls) but Persona 3 freaking rocks my pants,theres always something interesting to do and I actually enjoyed the sim parts as much as the rpg parts...Why do I like it? I dont know man...the idea of being in a place where the human psyche takes physical form is kinda awesome.
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I bought Persona 3 when it first came out and never even removed the plastic. I just bought Persona 3 FES and kinda sorta feel like playing it but with GTAIV coming out in 2 days I'm far from motivated.
Am I missing anything? Is this game awesome on the same level as Persona 2 because reviews seem to be pretty mixed and I definitely DO NOT like the idea of playing as Japanese emo teenagers who proceed through a demonic Hogwarts (yet still have time to play awkward dating mini-games, note passing, and finish classes).
Persona 2 is infinitely better than Persona 3, and I to some extent actually regret wasting money on Persona 3. The primary difference is, where P2 was a legitimately great RPG, P3 is a repetitive and uninteresting piece of shit. Just imagine a really boring dungeon crawler mixed with a fucking anime school sim and you basically have Persona 3, because aside from a little it of story progression at the end of every game month (i.e. a small amount of story every few hours), that's literally all you do. Dungeon crawl, go to school, have inane conversations with stupid friends, go to the mall and drink coffee/sing karaoke to get SKILLUPS that I don't even remember the point of getting, go on dates, build relationships with hollow characters because you have to so your persona don't suck, and then dungeon crawl some more. It is seriously one of the most tedious games I've played in a while; I was so disappointed that this is what they did with one of my favorite series. The story parts are decent, but they're really few and far between, so if you don't like the idea of talking to your friend about his crush on your teacher, you probably won't find the game too fun. Also, it practically plays itself half the time. Sometimes it will actually go through an entire day without letting you do anything. You wake up, you go to school, you sit in class, you decide to head home, you study, you decide to go to bed early. It will literally just decide MOST of that for you and the rest of the time you just choose between options.
The combat is probably the saving grace, if you could call it that, but it's marred by the fact that a) you don't control any character but your own, and b) party AI is laughably retarded. They do things like blaze through all their magic points, use abilities that have already proven to be ineffective (hey it's a fire monster let's use fire over and over even though it's immune to it), and so on. You might like it, though. Hiret admitted the school sim elements were gay, and the story wasn't prominent enough, but he was really keen on the combat, and there's definitely no shortage of that. I personally don't enjoy grinding in an RPG, but if you do, you might actually enjoy it, especially if ANIME SCHOOL SIM doesn't sound awful right off the bat to you.
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Actually ANIME SCHOOL SIM sounds awesome to me. I'll have to check out this Persona 3...
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Actually ANIME SCHOOL SIM sounds awesome to me. I'll have to check out this Persona 3...
yea def. check it out you'll love it
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b) party AI is laughably retarded. They do things like blaze through all their magic points, use abilities that have already proven to be ineffective (hey it's a fire monster let's use fire over and over even though it's immune to it), and so on.
No they don't, they specifically go out of their way to not use skills they know the enemies are immune to. Also, if you use tactics, it is extremely easy to get them to do what you want them to do.
I liked the sim parts too, and it doesn't really feel awkward or anything. Persona 3 is ultimately about people and their relationships with each other, and the Social Link system shows this really effectively.
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No they don't, they specifically go out of their way to not use skills they know the enemies are immune to. Also, if you use tactics, it is extremely easy to get them to do what you want them to do.
I liked the sim parts too, and it doesn't really feel awkward or anything. Persona 3 is ultimately about people and their relationships with each other, and the Social Link system shows this really effectively.
don't be an asshole. i could understand maybe the second part and an argument that WELLLL YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY FORM STRATEGIES IN SPITE OF THIS because that's true, but uh, i like the part where you somehow magically know the intricate details, not only of a game's ai, but of how that ai behaved in other peoples' homes while they were playing the game. for the 40+ hours i played the game, they regularly used attacks that the enemy was either immune to, or that were just less effective against them and then, afterwards, continued using them. but please rayne tell me more about my experience with the game that you would have no way of knowing about, i'm eager to learn what happened when i was alone in the room while playing it (without you there)! because i mean, clearly i don't know, what with all my first-hand experience and all.
the fact of the matter is, you shouldn't have to use "tactics" to get your party members to do what you want; it's asinine and an incredibly lame way to encourage tactical thought within a battle system. want your party members to not act like idiots? heh... try thinking strategically. there have really been very few games that i've played where the ai was advanced enough to yank control of 3 party members away from players and just let the computer control their actions. it cripples the fundamental idea behind a turn-based combat system, but this might be excusable if it wasn't for the fact that no one seems to be able to program legitimately intelligent ai in rpgs.
also idk i'm not STEEL so i really don't feel like just saying "well your tastes are bad" but the gay anime avatar kind of gives me a clue as to why you found the sim elements acceptable. it's great that it's all about "people and their relationships" but that sort of falls apart when you realize there's not a single character in the game that isn't really fucking superficial. main character's a blank slate, which is imo a narrative copout, the supporting characters like jun-pei are all pretty one-dimensional, and the schoolmates you meet up with and have to foster gay relationships with are even worse. they're quite literally husks, with MAYBE one or two shallow personality traits ascribed to them. i don't even know what to say in response to someone arguing that this game is a well done examination of relationship dynamics. to be one of those, you kind of have to have characters with some amount of depth to them! buuuuut i guess if you are entertained by generic anime and think that things of that nature are paragons of characterization, then i can see why you would like this. if this is the case, allow me to also suggest scooby-doo, where are you. it has impeccable character interaction and often provides keen, insightful analysis into the criminal pysche.
edit: also marcus another thing you might be a little disappointed by is that, unlike in persona 1 and 2, you can't talk to enemies anymore. i thought this was one of the coolest/most unique parts of the combat in persona, as it really made it seem like the demons you were fighting were sentient and intelligent, and not just mindless creatures. also, it was sort of a cool alternative to actually fighting without running away, and something i always thought of as a trademark of the series, so i don't get why they just neglected to include it!
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don't be an asshole. i could understand maybe the second part and an argument that WELLLL YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY FORM STRATEGIES IN SPITE OF THIS because that's true, but uh, i like the part where you somehow magically know the intricate details, not only of a game's ai, but of how that ai behaved in other peoples' homes while they were playing the game. for the 40+ hours i played the game, they regularly used attacks that the enemy was either immune to, or that were just less effective against them and then, afterwards, continued using them. but please rayne tell me more about my experience with the game that you would have no way of knowing about, i'm eager to learn what happened when i was alone in the room while playing it (without you there)! because i mean, clearly i don't know, what with all my first-hand experience and all.
did you use the analyze ability at all? if not i can see how this might be a problem, but once analyzed your allies will stop using skills that are useless. This is how the game works, so unless you are the one person stupid enough not to analyze new enemies, your game is broken.
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did you use the analyze ability at all? if not i can see how this might be a problem, but once analyzed your allies will stop using skills that are useless. This is how the game works, so unless you are the one person stupid enough not to analyze new enemies, your game is broken.
only when i encountered new enemies the first time. do you have to use it after an ability is used and shown to be useless? i'm actually pretty sure i had a ten minute conversation with hiret where we talked about party members' penchant for using abilities that aren't ideal repeatedly, so it's not even as if it's just me. buuuut considering that i typically analyzed an enemy every time i found one i'd never seen before, i don't think it was only happening on ones i didn't.
also, i don't even think you should need to use analyze. if JUNPEI uses a fire spell and the enemy is immune to it, he shouldn't use it again, whether i've analyzed the monster or not. that's what any person playing the game would do, and if they're going to give control to the computer, they should probably make sure it's vaguely intelligent in it's decisions. this is actually a pretty decent example of why giving party control to ai is dumb at this juncture. i shouldn't have to formulate strategies to circumvent the lack of intelligence in the artificial intelligence system.
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only when i encountered new enemies the first time. do you have to use it after an ability is used and shown to be useless? i'm actually pretty sure i had a ten minute conversation with hiret where we talked about party members' penchant for using abilities that aren't ideal repeatedly, so it's not even as if it's just me. buuuut considering that i typically analyzed an enemy every time i found one i'd never seen before, i don't think it was only happening on ones i didn't.
once i analyzed an enemy, my guys would pass their turn if they didn't have any action they could use(i remember junpei using stat boost every other turn and passing all other times since the enemy had reflect fire/slash). it seems strange to me that my guys would do this consistently, but your guys wouldn't, espically when it works the same way for pretty much everyone one gfaqs and shit.
also, i don't even think you should need to use analyze. if JUNPEI uses a fire spell and the enemy is immune to it, he shouldn't use it again, whether i've analyzed the monster or not.
I'll admit, its annoying, the only excuse i can think of is that some enemies have protection spells that were off after one hit, and it would suck even more if my the ice chick stopped using ice spells just basic the enemy had 'reflect magic' up for one turn.
that's what any person playing the game would do, and if they're going to give control to the computer, they should probably make sure it's vaguely intelligent in it's decisions. this is actually a pretty decent example of why giving party control to ai is dumb at this juncture. i shouldn't have to formulate strategies to circumvent the lack of intelligence in the artificial intelligence system.
all that said i completely agree with you here and P2 had a much better combat system(and pretty much everything else).
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Persona 3 is definitely no Persona 2, but it's a good game in its own right. The separate parts of the game (sim vs. dungeon crawlin') seem to be pretty awful, but somehow they combine to create something far greater than the sum of its parts. Megaten games have practically all had rather slow story pacing for better or for worse with some exceptions so that argument is a bit redundant.
While P2's battle system had far better balance, I have to say it was also fucking boring as hell.
btw my persona is nebiros (creepy as fuck puppetmasteryyy)
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also idk i'm not STEEL so i really don't feel like just saying "well your tastes are bad" but the gay anime avatar kind of gives me a clue as to why you found the sim elements acceptable. it's great that it's all about "people and their relationships" but that sort of falls apart when you realize there's not a single character in the game that isn't really fucking superficial. main character's a blank slate, which is imo a narrative copout, the supporting characters like jun-pei are all pretty one-dimensional, and the schoolmates you meet up with and have to foster gay relationships with are even worse. they're quite literally husks, with MAYBE one or two shallow personality traits ascribed to them. i don't even know what to say in response to someone arguing that this game is a well done examination of relationship dynamics. to be one of those, you kind of have to have characters with some amount of depth to them! buuuuut i guess if you are entertained by generic anime and think that things of that nature are paragons of characterization, then i can see why you would like this. if this is the case, allow me to also suggest scooby-doo, where are you. it has impeccable character interaction and often provides keen, insightful analysis into the criminal pysche.
And apparently I was being an asshole? First off, the avatar is from Higurashi, a very well written murder mystery that is very atmospheric and downright horrifying at times. It involves truly dark themes, a mature storyline, and a great cast of likeable characters. I don't see why watching a show that involves a demonic cult sacrificing people yearly to their local god should automatically mean I like the LIFE SIM aspects of Persona 3, but okay sure why not. I mean, they are totally similar. I liked them because they were something different, that hadn't really been tried in RPGs before, and they worked well.
I guess I can kind of agree with the BLANK SLATE MAIN CHARACTER thing, but they've done that for every SMT game they've ever made since at least the SNES era, and they aren't going to stop anytime soon, so there really isn't anything to say about that. It worked best in SMT3, which was a game about you, the player, and you personal beliefs as to how the world should be. It doesn't fit in so well with Persona, seeing as the key concept is about people summoning forth their inner Psyche, which is kind of weird when you can't really tell what personality the main character has.
I personally found the characters interesting. Of course, there were some terrible ones, like Bebe, the ambiguously gay foreign exchange student from France who loves to knit or whatever. But on the other hand, there is President Tanaka. The guy slowly develops over his conversations with you, as he tells you about basically how to screw people over and make money off of them, giving insight into his state of mind. His greed and paranoia are both emphasised, but as he talks with you, another side of him develops, and ends up donating a large sum of money to a charity to help children in need, so that he can watch some fine young men mature and grow and become successful like him. The guy never stops being a greedy bastard, of course.
I don't claim Persona 3 is a piece of art, the absolute pinnacle in showing character relationships. But it certainly is a step in the right direction, with a unique aspect to the game that I hope the sequel will expand upon and make even more interesting. Persona has always been about people and their relationships with each other, which makes sense, given your Persona is what other people make of you, the sense they got out of your personality. It isn't a piece of art, but it's definitely a better RPG series than most. If you're pissed off at the direction the series is taking, play SMT4 when it comes out instead, that will have everything you miss, including conversations with demons, and the entire party being controllable..
I try to stay away from generic shit, personally. For example, the horrendous Persona anime, which among other things, adds an AGE LIMIT to summoning Personas. That's right, apparently you can't summon forth your inner Psyche, your personality given form, if you're over the age of twenty or whatever. Then there was the focus of the plot moving away from relationships to people fighting other people using Personas. I liked Persona 3 because it was something different, a hell of a risk take that actually managed to work somehow.
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also, i don't even think you should need to use analyze. if JUNPEI uses a fire spell and the enemy is immune to it, he shouldn't use it again, whether i've analyzed the monster or not. that's what any person playing the game would do, and if they're going to give control to the computer, they should probably make sure it's vaguely intelligent in it's decisions. this is actually a pretty decent example of why giving party control to ai is dumb at this juncture. i shouldn't have to formulate strategies to circumvent the lack of intelligence in the artificial intelligence system.
Yeah man I've noticed that the AI is always really smart about using the best abilities. They don't use attacks that are stronger than they need to, they always target an enemy weakness (if you've analyzed the enemy or hit its weakness before), etc. They very frequently and smartly disable every enemy in one turn, if they can, so I can use a combo and kill them all right away. Like I don't get what you and Hiret experienced because the AI is great in my experience. I only rarely adjust their strategies from Act Freely, and that is for cases where I want someone to heal every round and never attack during a boss or whatever.
Anyway, this game is pretty great! Not controlling your party is a serious game-breaking flaw though. It was a really bad idea. I *do* enjoy the lame social bits because I find the subplots somewhat interesting and funny (world-class fencer who conceals his broken leg from the team, etc). Although like everyone else who likes this game I will also agree that it's definitely not as good as Persona 2 or most other SMT games.
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All I played this game for was to hear about Kenji's soggy noodles.
I just picked up FES too. I pray for the noodles to make a reappearance.
As for the combat system, I agree it's kinda silly in the beginning. However, I got the feel for it as I progressed in the game. By the end, I didn't think it was a problem at all. I don't know about you guys, but it was perfectly controllable. You can easily set up the AI to not fuck up.
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Am I missing anything? Is this game awesome on the same level as Persona 2 because reviews seem to be pretty mixed and I definitely DO NOT like the idea of playing as Japanese emo teenagers who proceed through a demonic Hogwarts (yet still have time to play awkward dating mini-games, note passing, and finish classes).
Think about everything awesome in Persona 2. Then imagine it not being there and in its place, terrible music and dating sim. That is what Persona 3 is like.
the fact of the matter is, you shouldn't have to use "tactics" to get your party members to do what you want; it's asinine and an incredibly lame way to encourage tactical thought within a battle system. want your party members to not act like idiots? heh... try thinking strategically. there have really been very few games that i've played where the ai was advanced enough to yank control of 3 party members away from players and just let the computer control their actions. it cripples the fundamental idea behind a turn-based combat system, but this might be excusable if it wasn't for the fact that no one seems to be able to program legitimately intelligent ai in rpgs.
But you see, it enhances the level of immersion in the game! In real life, you can't control other people, so it totally makes sense and adds a greater sense of realism! Y'know, like the ninja dog and robot girl. (Nm in real life you don't stand around taking turns and in real life you could say, outloud to your friend, "HEY UM YUKARI I COULD USE A LITTLE BIT OF HELP HERE I AM ABOUT TO DIE PLEASE HEAL ME")
edit: also marcus another thing you might be a little disappointed by is that, unlike in persona 1 and 2, you can't talk to enemies anymore. i thought this was one of the coolest/most unique parts of the combat in persona, as it really made it seem like the demons you were fighting were sentient and intelligent, and not just mindless creatures. also, it was sort of a cool alternative to actually fighting without running away, and something i always thought of as a trademark of the series, so i don't get why they just neglected to include it!
Well you see you talk to people and build social links, which takes the place of talking to demons! That's just as good, right? :sad:
Megaten games have practically all had rather slow story pacing for better or for worse with some exceptions so that argument is a bit redundant.
Other Megaten games actually have a sense of purpose or urgency to them. P3 is just sort of "Heh, whatever go climb a tower you kids!"
the avatar is from Higurashi, a very well written murder mystery that is very atmospheric and downright horrifying at times. It involves truly dark themes, a mature storyline, and a great cast of likeable characters.
Heh.
I liked Persona 3 because it was something different, a hell of a risk take that actually managed to work somehow.
I would argue that Persona 3 didn't work.
Yeah man I've noticed that the AI is always really smart about using the best abilities.
You can easily set up the AI to not fuck up.
CONCENTRATE TENTARAFOO
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Just a heads-up, guys:
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/persona/persona4/propaganda/persona410.jpg
Looks like Persona 4 is going to be a direct sequel to Persona 3 (I definitely recognize some of the characters in there from P3) and will probably share it's retarded mechanics. I guess we'll just have to wait for another Nocturne or something if we want to get back to real hardcore SMT mechanics.
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That would be SMT4, which is being made for the PS3. So people who loved Persona 3 can have what they want, and people that hated Persona 3 and wish it was like the old days can have what they want, and people like me who love both can have what they want. Everyone wins.
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That would be SMT4, which is being made for the PS3. So people who loved Persona 3 can have what they want, and people that hated Persona 3 and wish it was like the old days can have what they want, and people like me who love both can have what they want. Everyone wins.
Hey did you even look at the ad? It clearly says Persona 4 and also clearly says Playstation 2 in English. Unless maybe I'm missing something where it says somewhere "oh just kidding this is not Persona 4 and it is not for Playstation 2."
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Yeah, that's Persona 4, for the PS2. I'm talking about Shin Megami Tensei 4, for the PS3, which is not mentioned in that article you linked to at all. I was replying to this:
I guess we'll just have to wait for another Nocturne or something if we want to get back to real hardcore SMT mechanics.
Like I said, the next game with hardcore SMT mechanics will be SMT4 for the PS3, which they've already announced. I don't have a link handy at the moment though, unfortunately.
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Yeah, that's Persona 4, for the PS2. I'm talking about Shin Megami Tensei 4, for the PS3, which is not mentioned in that article you linked to at all.
Okay sorry man you weren't clear which part you were replying to. <3
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Persona 4, I have to admit, looks like a horrid recycle-bin mess. If the plot is actually decent I might consider picking it up but if it isn't then screw it.
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Yeah P4 is definitely recycled P3 without the suicide. Atlus must've made enough from money from weeaboos with P3 to make, using SSB Brawl terminology, a crappy clone. I can see them now...
Atlus- JESUS FLANAGAN STEAMING CHRIST THERES A MARKET FOR MAINSTREAM JPOP IN THE US. MAKE MORE.
MORE AND MORE.
That out of the way, I enjoyed P3. I didn't mind the sim or the cliches, but in retrospect it's confusing why I even thought that. I could never get over the inspired battle lyrics in P3: "WHOOO YEAH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH BABY BABY DUDUDUDUDUDUDUDH WHHOOOO YEAH BABAABABABY DOODOODODODOO" and so on. Perhaps I enjoyed P3 because the pattern of having to grind and grind for levels and money and shit reminded me of how the majority of P2 was grinding. The only difference was that I was that, with P2, I was never ever bored.
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Persona 4 looks awesome! I already love the soundtrack! Wohoo!!
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Yeah man I've noticed that the AI is always really smart about using the best abilities. They don't use attacks that are stronger than they need to, they always target an enemy weakness (if you've analyzed the enemy or hit its weakness before), etc. They very frequently and smartly disable every enemy in one turn, if they can, so I can use a combo and kill them all right away. Like I don't get what you and Hiret experienced because the AI is great in my experience. I only rarely adjust their strategies from Act Freely, and that is for cases where I want someone to heal every round and never attack during a boss or whatever.
Anyway, this game is pretty great! Not controlling your party is a serious game-breaking flaw though. It was a really bad idea. I *do* enjoy the lame social bits because I find the subplots somewhat interesting and funny (world-class fencer who conceals his broken leg from the team, etc). Although like everyone else who likes this game I will also agree that it's definitely not as good as Persona 2 or most other SMT games.
yeah the AI tended to always do what it should be for me too, save for my party members occasionally using a stronger spell than needed. and I agree with pretty much everything in the second part of the post too so I don't have much to add, other than I do think it would have worked better if it had more urgency like cho said. eventually I only really went to the dungeon on full moons.
also I haven't grabbed FES yet and I doubt I will, but I dunno. I think it is only 30 bucks so I might get it if I see it. can anyone say how much new stuff there really is though?
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also I haven't grabbed FES yet and I doubt I will, but I dunno. I think it is only 30 bucks so I might get it if I see it. can anyone say how much new stuff there really is though?
there's an extra chapter after the end thats suppose to be 30 hours, new weapons and armor(and i believe there is a way to crate items yourself) some of which will change the characters appearance(like swim suits and shit), a hard mode, new social links, which of course means new personas(including the infamous Mara), some social links have been moved around(that company president guy now only appears at night) and that arcade in the mall is now usable(the games can increase stats). There is probably some other stuff as well.
So yeah, its not just a minor update at least. i haven't beaten it yet so i'm going to sell my copy and get FES. you can carry your saves over, you only get to keep you stats and persona encyclopedia, so i gotta start from the beginning again, sadly, but at least i won't be starting over completely.
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Just a heads-up, guys:
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/persona/persona4/propaganda/persona410.jpg
Looks like Persona 4 is going to be a direct sequel to Persona 3 (I definitely recognize some of the characters in there from P3) and will probably share it's retarded mechanics. I guess we'll just have to wait for another Nocturne or something if we want to get back to real hardcore SMT mechanics.
ugh
reading this has made me OFFICIALLY give up hope for the persona series. i bet you didn't wake up this morning and think your internet posting today would be this influential, did you?
regardless, i think i've pretty much given up on atlus games entirely. i have found myself irritated by every single atlus game i've ever played with the exception of, ironically, the first persona game. it's a real shame most people hate the first persona. it's a pretty damn awkward game, but i really loved the way it worked and felt. also demon conversations in persona 1 was arguably the best THING that existed for the psx
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ahaha i don't know man! don't get me wrong, i liked persona 1 and remember playing and SCHOOKIDS and TALKING DEMONS and it was all such a huge departure from what i was used to in the genre, but i just couldn't quite get over the wizardry-like dungeons you had to wander aimlessly through, or the ridiculous map, or really any of the other absurd design decisions the developers made. in spite of all that, though, i like it a lot just from the fact that it did something really weird and interesting alone. i'm curious, though, why you think it's better than persona 2.
also, i can't really tell anything from that magazine scan, aside from the fact that it looks like persona 3. but, given the turn that the series has taken, and how much most people seemed to like persona 3, i don't see much of a reason for it to look identical to p3 and then suddenly decide to revert to a persona 2-inspired narrative/battle system.
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I guess I can kind of agree with the BLANK SLATE MAIN CHARACTER thing, but they've done that for every SMT game they've ever made since at least the SNES era, and they aren't going to stop anytime soon, so there really isn't anything to say about that. It worked best in SMT3, which was a game about you, the player, and you personal beliefs as to how the world should be. It doesn't fit in so well with Persona, seeing as the key concept is about people summoning forth their inner Psyche, which is kind of weird when you can't really tell what personality the main character has.
yeah but tell me how "they're too far in now they won't stop" excuses it? i don't even REMEMBER a main character in the original persona, and at least in persona 2, maya or whoever had a history, so even if she never said anything you knew that before that she had a LIFE and PEOPLE she knew. there was sort of a vague personality that she exuded. the main character in persona 3 was just some orphan or something that had absolutely no traits that made him seem human at all.
I personally found the characters interesting. Of course, there were some terrible ones, like Bebe, the ambiguously gay foreign exchange student from France who loves to knit or whatever. But on the other hand, there is President Tanaka. The guy slowly develops over his conversations with you, as he tells you about basically how to screw people over and make money off of them, giving insight into his state of mind. His greed and paranoia are both emphasised, but as he talks with you, another side of him develops, and ends up donating a large sum of money to a charity to help children in need, so that he can watch some fine young men mature and grow and become successful like him. The guy never stops being a greedy bastard, of course.
and what about your idiot friend who has a crush on his teacher? or the girl who you can go out with and have to convince she's not fat or something? or JUNPEI-KUN whose entire schtick is grrr im a horny clown.......they dont respect me like <your name here>-kun...? there were probably a few characters who were acceptable, but the large majority of them had an inexcusable lack of depth and were just far too vapid to identify with, considering this is a game that's ALL ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS or something. the relationship dynamics were about as believable as a hentai game.
I don't claim Persona 3 is a piece of art, the absolute pinnacle in showing character relationships. But it certainly is a step in the right direction, with a unique aspect to the game that I hope the sequel will expand upon and make even more interesting. Persona has always been about people and their relationships with each other, which makes sense, given your Persona is what other people make of you, the sense they got out of your personality. It isn't a piece of art, but it's definitely a better RPG series than most. If you're pissed off at the direction the series is taking, play SMT4 when it comes out instead, that will have everything you miss, including conversations with demons, and the entire party being controllable..
those were things i missed, but they're not what made persona 3 a subpar rpg. a complete lack of legitimate characterization and a compulsory school sim filled with tedious tasks and shallow characters you had to interact with to get anywhere in the game did. if you think that a step in the right direction for the rpg genre is BEING MORE LIKE BAD SCHOOL SIMS then i guess we just have a fundamental disagreement here.
i don't understand how this game was a "hell of a risk" by the way; they just slammed two genres japanese people love together. rather artlessly, i'd add, since there's basically a complete separation of rpg elements vs school sim elements. just because a game presents uninspired content from two overdone, generic genres doesn't make it any less generic than if it only delivered uninspired content from one of those genres.
ps i commented on the avatar because i watched 5 episodes of higurashi sometime ago on recommendation and thought it was a pretty mediocre show to call "very well written" and, apparently, indicative of the disparity between the standards the two of us hold these things to!
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alright i guess i'll play this game when i've got nothing better to do and feeling really bored.
i still haven't gotten past the first 10 minutes of devil summoner but i buy these things because the value sky rockets after they're released.
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actually i want you to play it as soon as possible so you can take a side in the argument, here!
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I was really looking forwards to Persona 3 just before it was released... And what did I get?
Some really shitty Roguelike game with an even shittier dating sim slapped on. The Rougelike aspect of the game was just terrible, roaming around some boring and uninspired dungeon where every floor looks the same. It wouldn't have been half as bad if there was something fun to do :[
The dating sim part of the game however... Holy shit. What the hell were the developers thinking when thy added it? Every month you'd go to the new floors of the dungeon... Which would take you exactly 1 day to do. After that there was no reason to go back for another month, you couldn't grind, the dungeon was boring and offered nothing new from going back. So you were left with 29 days of NOTHING TO DO.
Morning... Before School... School... After School... Night
29 fucking times in a row. Maybe once or twice a day you would see some stupid dialog like "I totally heard, blue is the new pink!!!". And if you wanted you could go and talk to some really boring characters who had nothing interesting to say... "Bonjour, J'mapelle gay french guy!" (seriously, the french person was the only NPC I remembered, and that was only because they made him so obviously gay).
The game basically consisted of 1-3 hours of crappy dungeon crawling. And then a few hours of NOTHING. Hopes you enjoy shitty dialog for hours at a time with nothing to do inbetween. Hahahaha.
Also, anyone who says the AI in the game and the battle system in general isn't retarded is well... A retard.
Seriously, I can't remember the number of times I lost a fight because of absolutely fucking stupid reasons. "Hey look at that Junpei! The enemy has one hp left and you could kill it in a single hit and win the fight"... "Junpei: THEN I WILL FUCKING DEBUFF IT INSTEAD AND REDUCE IT'S DEFENCE!!!". And then the next enemy turn the enemy will pull some move out of it's ass and win the fight, like an instant kill to the entire party move (which after a few hours into the game every enemy had).
Another fun one was when everyone would go into a healing frenzy, and keep healing each other, when they could have just as easily killed the enemy in 2-3 hits and not needed to heal. And they would do this every god damn turn until you finally got to kill the monster.
One that also happened a lot was 3 out of 4 enemies knocked down, Junpei is up and can easily know the 4th down, letting us use a finishing move and win the fight. What does he do? Sure he knocks the 4th enemy down, and hit its the other 3 enemies as well, making them stand up. Great job Junpei!
Honestly, if you could have controlled every character in battle the game would have been a hell of a lot less frustrating (and probably no challenge at all).
Also... Holy shit. The music was fucking terrible. When not in the dungeon you get this annoying song that plays everywhere and it is basically "I couldn't nananaanana!!!" over and over and over again (I am pretty sure there was also a rap song that played once in a while which was really bad and basically consisted of "BODY... BODY!!"). Almost like the singer wanted to sing a song, but only knew one verse of it and didn't even know the lyrics to the entire verse. And then summer came, and along with it this horrible French sounding song. At that point I basically muted the game and never unmuted it. I think the only song I could even listen to was the song played when you were in the Velvet Room.
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Also, anyone who says the AI in the game and the battle system in general isn't retarded is well... A retard.
Seriously, I can't remember the number of times I lost a fight because of absolutely fucking stupid reasons. "Hey look at that Junpei! The enemy has one hp left and you could kill it in a single hit and win the fight"... "Junpei: THEN I WILL FUCKING DEBUFF IT INSTEAD AND REDUCE IT'S DEFENCE!!!". And then the next enemy turn the enemy will pull some move out of it's ass and win the fight, like an instant kill to the entire party move (which after a few hours into the game every enemy had).
Another fun one was when everyone would go into a healing frenzy, and keep healing each other, when they could have just as easily killed the enemy in 2-3 hits and not needed to heal. And they would do this every god damn turn until you finally got to kill the monster.
One that also happened a lot was 3 out of 4 enemies knocked down, Junpei is up and can easily know the 4th down, letting us use a finishing move and win the fight. What does he do? Sure he knocks the 4th enemy down, and hit its the other 3 enemies as well, making them stand up. Great job Junpei!
Honestly, if you could have controlled every character in battle the game would have been a hell of a lot less frustrating (and probably no challenge at all).
any sort of halfway decent use of the tactics command would avoid just about all these problems(espically with junpei since he can't heal and avoids his one de/buff spells like the plague). of course i agree that it would have been much better with full control of your party.
I'd just like to note that i've had my guys do stupid shit plenty of times, but if you take the time to keep your guys under control you can usually avoid most problems and being an smt game, getting fucked over by one mistake isn't exactly anything new, just this time you have AI control teammates to bitch at instead of yourself.
I think the only song I could even listen to was the song played when you were in the Velvet Room.
this is the only song my mom ever complained about hearing and she is voice and piano teacher(apparently the chick singing is out of tune)
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I only got to play a few minutes of Persona 3, but Persona 1...bleh. I remember that game. Horrible. I didn't care for any of the characters. The only reason I kept playing is because I was entertained by their constant bickering. I was also hoping that Mark would pull out a pistol and bust a cap on Nate's ass.
Persona 2 on the other hand, I'm playing that right now. It's awesome.
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I was also hoping that Mark would pull out a pistol and bust a cap on Nate's ass.
when you get the chance to choose between meeting the woman or the man later on, you will probably wanna choose the woman...
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reading this has made me OFFICIALLY give up hope for the persona series. i bet you didn't wake up this morning and think your internet posting today would be this influential, did you?
Well there's still an entire Shin Megami Tensei franchise :(
regardless, i think i've pretty much given up on atlus games entirely. i have found myself irritated by every single atlus game i've ever played with the exception of, ironically, the first persona game.
Well Atlus' bread and butter is selling ridiculous jpop RPGs to America so you sort of get what you get!
this is the only song my mom ever complained about hearing and she is voice and piano teacher(apparently the chick singing is out of tune)
Actually it is a synth. The notes are most certainly in tune but maybe they aren't "wrong" enough for your mom because singers never actually nail exactly the right note the way a synthesizer does and it might kind of freak her out.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, one of the notes might have been sampled a little flat.
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btw my persona is nebiros (creepy as fuck puppetmasteryyy)
Dude I was thinking of making a Persona Compendium here but now this thread just became another generic discussion thread...should I just make a new thread for the compendium?
BTW Im guessing Nebiros is of the [Devil ][/Devil] rigth?
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ahaha i don't know man! don't get me wrong, i liked persona 1 and remember playing and SCHOOKIDS and TALKING DEMONS and it was all such a huge departure from what i was used to in the genre, but i just couldn't quite get over the wizardry-like dungeons you had to wander aimlessly through, or the ridiculous map, or really any of the other absurd design decisions the developers made. in spite of all that, though, i like it a lot just from the fact that it did something really weird and interesting alone. i'm curious, though, why you think it's better than persona 2.
i want to stress that i did not say better!!!! i just preferred persona 1.
i mean shit, yeah persona 2 is obviously a better made game. it's infinitely cleaner and more coherent. the story was told a lot better, and made quite a bit more sense(although i didn't like how we were basically playing persona 2.5). but after all these definite improvements i felt like quite a bit of STYLE was lost, and nothing else was really GAINED to offset the loss of the thing that I found to be the game's selling point. and it's not like the sequel was that much more substantial than the first one in terms of sheer ideas(if at all). it just executed itself in a much more professional manner. but i think the sloppiness of the first one ultimately created this odd sense of disorientation and contemporary chaos that i've never seen before in a game.
also, i STRONGLY preferred the music and the monster dialogue in persona 1. particularly the monster dialogue. you can't even tell if it's ENGRISH or SUPPOSED TO BE THAT DISORIENTING, but regardless, it's definitely some of the most remarkable game writing i've ever seen.
i mean, i'm not really ARGUING THIS POINT here because digging a style(primarily for its sloppiness) is remarkably subjective, but this is really just my take on it. it's pretty infrequent that i see a game that manages to really nail some sort of unique style.
Well Atlus' bread and butter is selling ridiculous jpop RPGs to America so you sort of get what you get!
eh, i don't know if i'd summarize the history of atlus as JPOP. sure, it's always been there to an extent, but it's hit something of a breaking point with persona 3 where the jpop finally overlapped the distinctly atlus feel. i don't think it's all in my head when i say that they've changed direction a bit.
plus, i've grown pretty weary of the smt/dds games. they always start off REALLY COOL but i always grow genuinely sick of them by the half-way point.
also i always see it as being a TERRIBLE SIGN when a game company turns their flagship title into a mmorpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megami_Tensei_Online:_IMAGINE). i can only IMAGINE how badly this will turn out for the company(see: squaresoft)
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Dude I was thinking of making a Persona Compendium here but now this thread just became another generic discussion thread...should I just make a new thread for the compendium?
BTW Im guessing Nebiros is of the [Devil Arcana] rigth?
Nah Nebiros is a Hermit persona that can be fused after completing one of Elizabeth's fusion requests. He has the best moveset for the Fear ailment in the game.
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some stuff
Yeah, you know, maybe you're right. At the time I played the original Persona, I wasn't very critical of anything but really obvious flaws. The dungeons, the maps, the other stuff. Persona 2 I played when I was quite a bit older (yeah I never understood why Eternal Punishment was the one to get a translation, either), so I don't remember there being a huge gap in style and atmosphere, but I'll take your word for it. It's actually a pretty cool idea to me that some objectively bad design decisions could lead to the game having a more engaging/interesting feel to it; it sort of reminds me of what was going on in that big catamites topic yesterday. Just this idea that you should try new shit, even if it might not seem like it's the best idea, for the sake of trying it, and who knows what kind of experience you might get as a result. Buuuut, I thought Persona 2 was a pretty stylish game, so I guess I should replay the original and see how it compares.
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(yeah I never understood why Eternal Punishment was the one to get a translation, either)
Because Innocent Sin is a lot... it's a lot less. EDIT: Innocent Sin seems to be a lot more derivative of standard RPGs and even some of it's contemporaries (there's a pretty big similarity between it and Final Fantasy 8!), and there's a lot less gameplay to it. Also the sound effects do not sync up at all and it gets kind of annoying.
Anyway, I liked the battle system of Persona 1 a lot more than the one in Persona 2 (or Persona 3, but P3 is pretty awful anyway!). I think the only thing I really didn't like about Persona 1 was the town map, which pissed me off because HEY GUYS CAN'T WALK ACROSS THE STREET MUST CROSS AT INTERSECTION, which would require you to walk a pretty long way most of the time. That and Thanatos Tower. FUCK Thanatos Tower.
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Because Innocent Sin is a lot... it's a lot less. EDIT: Innocent Sin seems to be a lot more derivative of standard RPGs and even some of it's contemporaries (there's a pretty big similarity between it and Final Fantasy 8!), and there's a lot less gameplay to it. Also the sound effects do not sync up at all and it gets kind of annoying.
Anyway, I liked the battle system of Persona 1 a lot more than the one in Persona 2 (or Persona 3, but P3 is pretty awful anyway!). I think the only thing I really didn't like about Persona 1 was the town map, which pissed me off because HEY GUYS CAN'T WALK ACROSS THE STREET MUST CROSS AT INTERSECTION, which would require you to walk a pretty long way most of the time. That and Thanatos Tower. FUCK Thanatos Tower.
Also Innocent Sin had a bunch of controversial content such as Hitler and possible homosexual relations.
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The homosexual relationship appears like, in two lines of dialogue and then in a contact command, which could have easily been edited in translation. Same thing with Hitler, Atlus USA had already shown no qualms about editing character sprites and artwork (HI BLACK MARK), so that wouldn't have been an issue either. (Not that Hitler himself would have been an issue)
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Yeah, the major reason is simply because Sony was being an enormous douche and completely refused a localization of Innocent Sin. I've read that it might have been because the game was too "niche", but that wouldn't explain why EP was localized despite also being just as niche.
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Yeah, the major reason is simply because Sony was being an enormous douche and completely refused a localization of Innocent Sin. I've read that it might have been because the game was too "niche", but that wouldn't explain why EP was localized despite also being just as niche.
I think a lot of speculation like this is usually completely made-up and that the real reasons might have more to do with the employees at the publisher (Atlus) just not really feeling like doing it.
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I know for certain that Sony outright rejected Soul Hackers, and that Atlus was seriously considering bundling both Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment for release as a single unit. I'd assume that Innocent Sin didn't get Sony's approval.
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Yeah, the major reason is simply because Sony was being an enormous douche and completely refused a localization of Innocent Sin. I've read that it might have been because the game was too "niche", but that wouldn't explain why EP was localized despite also being just as niche.
The most likely reason Atlus didn't localize Innocent Sin is because they're poor and could only really afford to do one. Eternal Punishment just happens to be, by far, the better half.
I know for certain that Sony outright rejected Soul Hackers, and that Atlus was seriously considering bundling both Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment for release as a single unit.
It's funny how when people talk about Innocent Sin, they say it wasn't allowed because of Hitler or The Gay, and they doubted Persona 3 FES would be released because of Mara The Penis Demon, but no one speculates why Soul Hackers didn't make it. It must have been Jiboshin Diana.
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and they doubted Persona 3 FES would be released because of Mara The Penis Demon, but no one speculates why Soul Hackers didn't make it. It must have been Jiboshin
The rating system has changed alot since the psx days...thats why things like gay ppl and Nazi leaders are now allowed in video games ;)
Yay progress! :)
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So this topic motivated me to buy SMT: Nocturne. I played it pretty heavily over the weekend. And like I was pretty into Persona 3 but now that I have Nocturne I can't help but feel like P3 is just this bizarre and completely failed experiment. It's really too bad I missed out on Nocturne when it was new because I seriously think it might be one of my new favorite games. However I did want to slit my wrists after some random enemy killed my main character with Hama and I got a game over after playing for several hours. that shit is NOT ACCEPTABLE GAME DESIGN.
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Have you reached the first fiend battle (matador battle)? That was one of the hardest battles in the entire game. I had to grind so much...
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Have you reached the first fiend battle (matador battle)? That was one of the hardest battles in the entire game. I had to grind so much...
It really isn't that hard. All you need is decent force resistance and boom, all of his turns are gone.
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Have you reached the first fiend battle (matador battle)? That was one of the hardest battles in the entire game. I had to grind so much...
I won't read that spoiler but since I haven't encountered any HARDEST BATTLE EVER yet I will assume no.
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So this topic motivated me to buy SMT: Nocturne. I played it pretty heavily over the weekend. And like I was pretty into Persona 3 but now that I have Nocturne I can't help but feel like P3 is just this bizarre and completely failed experiment. It's really too bad I missed out on Nocturne when it was new because I seriously think it might be one of my new favorite games. However I did want to slit my wrists after some random enemy killed my main character with Hama and I got a game over after playing for several hours. that shit is NOT ACCEPTABLE GAME DESIGN.
nocturne pisses me off because GRINDS ETC but persona games tend to be the only rpgs i can become involved with so heavily in that way, so i don't mind too much, and really it is just a pretty awesome game and at the time it came out i thought it was pretty great to see something with that type of atmosphere on the market!
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nocturne pisses me off because GRINDS ETC but persona games tend to be the only rpgs i can become involved with so heavily in that way, so i don't mind too much, and really it is just a pretty awesome game and at the time it came out i thought it was pretty great to see something with that type of atmosphere on the market!
I haven't hit any brick wall grind-a-thons yet but with the nature of persona fusing and the Magatama system and all that and, more importantly, the extremely rapid pace of battles I'm pretty sure that it might actually be pretty fun to grind in this game (it delivers rewards rapidly and constantly).
Also yeah the atmosphere is truly mysterious and bizarre in sort of a creepy way. The cool thing about it though is that it isn't IN YOUR FACE creepy like a Resident Evil game. Rather, the game makes you feel like an unwelcome guest in a strange world where the residents are too apathetic to push you out.
Also its cel-shading engine is extremely slick and I'm really impressed with their decision to basically flat-shade everything and use the spare PS2 resources to put self-shadowing on all of the models and everything. The self-shadows actually look better than a lot of newer 360 games and stuff in my opinion because the shadows are in the same resolution as everything else.