Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on May 27, 2008, 12:31:37 am
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So this isn't a SITE FEEDBACK thing, I'm not suggesting we ban a word or anything, but I want to get some level of discussion on this because it's beginning to bother me.
Everyone knows GW has a certain "forum identity" or whatever. Lots of people like to chalk it up to basically slack grammatical style, steeling, and not using smileys ever, but it's more than that and I really don't think I need to elaborate.
What's kind of bothering me is that it seems more and more part of our forum identity is using the word FAGGOT or GAY as a perjorative.
Like, here's a new guy (this is by no means a callout, but an example) http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=5888.new#new
Suddenly he opens with an all caps MASSIVE FAGGOT.
And everyone does this, from admin down to normal member. I did it today and caught it right when the post went through:
hey psyburn is pretty gay but dont force him to give you money with false forum threats dude.
Psyburn's not ACTUALLY GAY, fyi, and if he is that wasn't what I was referring to.
Basically a lot of us are using these terms as replacements for "lame" "idiot" or "shit" and really, let's face it, this is a very prejudicial term. It's a hate slur. It has nowhere near the connotation of the word "nigger" or even some other racial ones, but it still has a very real line of homophobia in it.
Is everyone saying the word faggot or gay a homophobe, fuck no. Honestly, I think that's part of what makes it such a great online insult; you haven't heard it since fifth grade, but back then it was reserved for the worst offenders. Suddenly, BAM, Steel just called you a faggot for liking John McCain. it's a hate slur but without the prejudice, so it's just this caustic word you don't expect.
Gay is less hateful, but still you know, it's got that connotation of being lame (which in itself is also a perjorative for the crippled but really I think we can give that one a let).
Basically I've run out of justifications for using those words, and I was wondering what anyone else thought. I'm gonna stop, or at least try to, but I want to see what people think.
also before anyone says it this is not a bandwagon to get the word banned or filtered or even warned for, I just want to see if anyone has an opinion on this.
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I don't really see a problem with using "faggot." it's obvious it has a homophobic connotation, but VERY few people use it really in a homophobic context. (the only one i can remember as of late was shepperd i think?)
it would be better if gw started using a different insult (or none at all!), but it's really not that big of a deal i think.
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Yeah like I get that, but at the same time, it has this weird feeling of I HAVE A BLACK FRIEND I CAN'T BE A RACIST WHEN I SAY NIGGER.
Idk if the modern world subtracted all meaning from it and it became like LAME or whatever I guess I could see that, but honestly that's not going to happen in any of our lifetimes (mkkmypet...your child will inherit the wind) and so it just kind of gives the impression we just run around using hate speech and saying WHOA DIDN'T MEAN IT THAT WAY.
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one thing thats interesting on gw is that words like DUMB or IDIOT have stronger meaning than GAY/FAGGOT/NIGGER/MOTHERFUCKER/CUNT
at least thats how i perceive it
maybe we should just use smilies instead of insults, like: "man you are being a :("
that way no one gets offended and smilies get to be used more frequently.
edit:
i just realise we use gay (as a foreign word) a lot in norwegian in the same way you'd use lame in english. not even foreign languages are clear of the scourge...
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all in favor of replacing nigger with sparkling wiggles say aye
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You know I think most have pretty much admitted to ourselves it's a ridiculous and terrible word to use, and maybe even all but stopped saying it in life, but maaaaan it is just so satisfying that I've sort of kept what I knew to be true in the back of my mind because FAGGOT it just rolls off the tongue and it'd be a shame not to say it anymore! I don't really use gay very often, and honestly I don't say faggot particularly often either, but yeah it's probably for the best if I just cut it out of the old vocab entirely!
It's just... there's no word that feels quite as appropriate with a lot of the people around here.
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i've stopped using gay and faggot for a while now, basically since i actually met gay people and started interacting with them. usually i just brush it off if someone else uses it, but i try not to.
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all in favor of replacing nigger with sparkling wiggles say aye
SA recently replaced nigger with an icon that says REPORT THIS POST TO A MOD.
but SA actually had a huge problem with "ironic" use so.
You know I think most have pretty much admitted to ourselves it's a ridiculous and terrible word to use, and maybe even all but stopped saying it in life, but maaaaan it is just so satisfying that I've sort of kept what I knew to be true in the back of my mind because FAGGOT it just rolls off the tongue and it'd be a shame not to say it anymore! I don't really use gay very often, and honestly I don't say faggot particularly often either, but yeah it's probably for the best if I just cut it out of the old vocab entirely!
thats the worst part, it really does roll off the tongue (or THE POST or whatever). for me personally I think it's because it has an abrupt, almost German ending, just FAGGOT, and that's it, sort of like FUCK etc. the fact that it rhymes with maggot probably helped it stick around for so long in history but yeah it has a brusqueness that other insults lack.
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Yeah, I really agree with the usage of "gay" in today's society. Nowadays pretty much "the flower is gay" "you're gay" "that teacher is gay" etc. I've been the type of person who's defended the usage of gay ("Homosexuals are gay"), but apparently some idiots believe that makes me gay.
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maybe we should just use smilies instead of insults, like: "man you are being a :("
hahaha this is really funny lets all do this
lars you fucking :\
but yeah i think the biggest appeal (at least for me) of using faggot is the abruptness and impact is has. its just like this huge SLAM and is very "satisfying" as someone said. i don't think i use it very often but i am in favor of us censoring ourselves and not using. i say "gay" a lot in real life, its just one of those words that was so popular when i was in high school that its sort of burned into my vocabulary. hell "hecka" was a huge part of my vocabulary until 4 or 5 years ago and i had to consciously stop myself from using it.
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Its nothing to do with GW- Justice always uses FAGGOTS in messages. Its pretty common amongst us UK lot.
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During my first year of college the RA's collectively made up this stupid rule saying that if you heard anyone saying words like "gay" or "faggot" or other inappropriate terms, you were supposed to yell out "WORD CHOICE" and the offending person would immediately stop doing it.
It's really weird, because IRL when I heard random people talking and saying "MAN, that is so SO GAYYY" I kind of slightly cringe and assume that they are stupid guys (not necessarily homophobic, but just not people i would want to hang out with). However, there's some people I'm good friends with who regularly use the term "gay" and I kind of just automatically translate it as "lame" and don't really look deeper into it.
I had never used "gay" as an insult until I got to GW (most likely a result of Steel and buddies) and I quickly picked the habit up. I've caught myself using it perhaps once every few weeks and I quickly reprimanded myself in my head. I don't like it when I say it.
So to sum up, I guess it is at best "OK" to use it on this forum medium, despite the connotations associated with it, but it seems hypocritical for me to say that when I don't always tolerate it in real life.
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Well, I don't know. On the one hand I can see why it would be preferable to tone down the use of certain words as pejoratives or derogatives, because it might offend some people and could come off as pretty repulsive given the hateful context they have been used in previously. However at the same time I know that when I say things like "YOU ARE A FAGGOT" or "HAHA STUPID NEGRO" I am definitely not intending that they be taken literally in the sense that I think you are homosexual and want to discriminate you for that reason (same goes for being black, or Jewish, or whatever). And I feel that most people understand that these words and/or phrases aren't being used in any kind of serious way. It just seems like a bit of a slippery slope to travel down if we were to impose any sort of global forum control over this, especially since very few members (and they are usually banned pretty quickly) actually spout off very hateful things. But, as you said, this isn't the bandwagon for word filtering.
If it matters in any way, I don't intend for someone who I may find upsetting or repulsive to define the words that are going to come out of my mouth. And anyone who takes offense to these phrases needs to seriously come forward and provide something other than "This was used to discriminate against my kind in the past, therefore YOU ARE NOW DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME!"
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I chalk it up to two things:
1: Internet meme. GW has it's fair share of forced posting styles including:
-Random caps (i hate using [*b][*/b] to emphasize shit so i just POST IN ALL CAPS)
-The "HEH SHIT SUX" statement. I've never seen this used anywhere else on the internet.
-The false shock statement used sarcastically to belittle someone ("m... my final fantasy fan game is bad you say!!??")
-And of course, any adjective added in front of faggot to include "Humongous Faggot," "Gigantic Faggot," "Unbelievable Faggot," "The Worse Kind Of Human [Faggot ][/Faggot])
2: The English language sucks.
Certain words do end up losing their meaning and are admitted into common talk. Like you said, "lame" was originally a lowbrow term for mentally retarded (which has also become a very common pejorative).
I honestly don't care what words I use in a post because it's pretty much the equivalent of talking to your best buddy but, uh, when doing something professionally I try to watch my language.
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-The "HEH SHIT SUX" statement. I've never seen this used anywhere else on the internet.
-The false shock statement ("m... my final fantasy fan game is bad you say!!??")
I don't know what you're talking about with either of these, man.
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In conclusion I think we should make "foget" into an insult
YOU FUCKIN FOGET
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this is pretty funny because it's part of steeling
i don't trust anyone that doesn't say faggot at least once a month
~steel paladines
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CHECK YOSELF BEFORE YO FOGET YOSELF
But yeah, language is very fluid so deal with it. If anyone makes a personal choice not to say faggot ever than that's fine. I doubt anybody is going to call you out for not calling people faggots, but I feel that anyone who seriously challenges someone for using the word to jokingly describe someone being stupid (or gay(which means lame)) is overreacting a bit.
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I don't like people using retarded as an insult because I have one relative who happens to have mental disabilities, stop doing this.
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I don't like people using retarded as an insult because I have one relative who happens to have mental disabilities, stop doing this.
Haha my roommate is like this too. As a summer job he works with elderly people and people with mental retardation, so every time he hears someone say "retarded" he yells at them.
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CHECK YOSELF BEFORE YO FOGET YOSELF
But yeah, language is very fluid so deal with it. If anyone makes a personal choice not to say faggot ever than that's fine. I doubt anybody is going to call you out for not calling people faggots, but I feel that anyone who seriously challenges someone for using the word to jokingly describe someone being stupid (or gay(which means lame)) is overreacting a bit.
Nobody's challenging anyone, and in fact he pointed out in his initial post that that was exactly what he didn't want to do, but LANGUAGE IS FLUID is a ridiculous justification because faggot has since its inception been a homophobic slur, and will probably continue to be one for a while. It's not necessarily bigotry but at the very least it's fairly insensitive and just dismissing the problem with using the word as an insult by calling language fluid by nature is kind of a copout!
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The thing about those people is that in 99% of cases they have no problem making fun of things like epilepsy or schizophrenia or [insert ][/insert] yet when it affects them in any way personally oh noes you are a terrible person and deserve to die.
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sodomy is pretty darn funny and i think it's more than enough to make fun of someone for
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I don't know what you're talking about with either of these, man.
perhaps i should have labeled it as the general abuse of elipses in general but this applies to the internet as a whole...
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yeah
I remember once Wackfiend boasted about how he had...s...sex in his game. really? are you kidding me?
"Ga...games are meant to be choose your own adventure stories....." is seriously a pretty retarded sentiment to apply to ALL GAMES, EVERYWHERE.
"we............we destroyed the world..... *psychic powers*"
"this... this is me..."
Heh....me.......bashing games.........lol! Ludicrous.......
I would probably also add the "Incredibly Long Vowel" meme but really, only a handful of people do this soooooooooooooooo I won't.
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Haha my roommate is like this too. As a summer job he works with elderly people and people with mental retardation, so every time he hears someone say "retarded" he yells at them.
honestly I can see that.
the worst is I never use retarded to describe anything I usually just say THATS SHIT but I have a friend with a retarded sister and it's all I do around him. I don't know why! it's subconscious and I think it's the worst thing I ever do but I can't help it.
The thing about those people is that in 99% of cases they have no problem making fun of things like epilepsy or schizophrenia or [insert other condition you know you've made fun of you know you have!!!] yet when it affects them in any way personally oh noes you are a terrible person and deserve to die.
I've never known this to be the case. people who are sensitive to mental conditions in one way tend to extend it all the way.
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This reminds me, I remember when I first joined I think it was faust or someone who warned me for describing something as "REALLY GAY".
I don't want GW to become overly politicially correct but as of late I have definately stopped saying words like "GAY and "FAGGOT" as often as I used to.
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I used palsy in a joke I made once and some kid knew someone that had palsy, and I felt like a huge dick. Also my friends little brother has asperger's and sometimes I will call something retarded around him and I feel bad but my friend does it too, so I think his brother just doesn't care. He did once tell us that we had to "respect faggots" though. I've actually stopped using faggot and retarded because I feel sort of uncomfortable using them, which doesn't really make sense because I curse constantly. I'll call someone a faggot if I'm really angry at them. I don't think it really matters for the internet though, since I don't think it really matters in real life, and i think most people take the internet with a grain of salt anyway or whatever.
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Nobody's challenging anyone, and in fact he pointed out in his initial post that that was exactly what he didn't want to do, but LANGUAGE IS FLUID is a ridiculous justification because faggot has since its inception been a homophobic slur, and will probably continue to be one for a while. It's not necessarily bigotry but at the very least it's fairly insensitive and just dismissing the problem with using the word as an insult by calling language fluid by nature is kind of a copout!
Ok, well first of all I wasn't calling him out on that. It wasn't even directed at anyone in particular.
Secondly, I am aware that some people use it as a homophobic slur and that is as far as I know (or am concerned) its origin. I don't think anyone is going to disagree that not only does language change over time, but that we have the power to define what we mean (which is simply what I meant by fluid). Now, I could just start saying things like ping pot pang wow and mean something deep and profound but you would have no idea what I'm talking about and disregard it most likely. So I'm not advocating everyone say whatever they want, especially in this case where there is an obvious overlap between original meaning and the current intended meaning. I am not dismissing the problem entirely as noted by the fact I made other posts, but I'm not going to cater my language to never offend anyone ever ever for fear of being 'insensitive.'
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perhaps i should have labeled it as the general abuse of elipses in general but this applies to the internet as a whole...
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yeah
I would probably also add the "Incredibly Long Vowel" meme but really, only a handful of people do this soooooooooooooooo I won't.
Oh, this. Yeah this is definitely unique to GW in my experience. idk I guess it never occurred to anyone else to use excessive ellipses ironically
and also question marks
and also this ALSO thing we do.
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I'm not going to cater my language to never offend anyone ever ever for fear of being 'insensitive.'
that's kind of mean spirited. like, if you were in an AIDS WING or whatever, you'd still be like LOOK AT THE BUTT HUMPING FAGS?
I mean there's propriety, you know.
(ps to the half of gw who thinks I run around hitting my girlfriends or calling classmates faggots this word is the reason that doesn't happen)
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that's kind of mean spirited. like, if you were in an AIDS WING or whatever, you'd still be like LOOK AT THE BUTT HUMPING FAGS?
I mean there's propriety, you know.
(ps to the half of gw who thinks I run around hitting my girlfriends or calling classmates faggots this word is the reason that doesn't happen)
But I never really feel the urge to say that in the first place??
Also it's important to understand that here on GW I don't expect anyone to take me seriously in 99% of my posts, whereas in the AIDS WING (does this place exist??) of a hospital where I don't know anyone I wouldn't expect them to understand at all. So I guess you could consider that curving what I say or whatever and I'm just a liarrr
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well basically I think you are a liar because there have got to be times where you've altered your speech based on circumstance and I can't help but feel you're trying to make the PC NO THANKS argument here when it's not really applicable.
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well basically I think you are a liar because there have got to be times where you've altered your speech based on circumstance and I can't help but feel you're trying to make the PC NO THANKS argument here when it's not really applicable.
Well, I'm not making the PC NO THANKS argument, but sure I am a liar
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Yeah I use it more than I like irl, and I've been consciously trying to stop. It's offensive, but when you consider that gay originally meant happy, anyway, it's kind of a moot point when you're not being homophobic. Like someone said, lame used to mean handicapped, but gay now means lame, which was disrespectful in its own right whenever lame was used (way back when). Not the greatest argument, but yeah language adapts and words shift meanings etc etc but either way people right now can view it as offensive, so yeah I think we should be a little more self-conscious about it.
Also steel I do the same thing around my cousin. It's like... Every other word I say. It's horrible.
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The word "Faggot" doesn't flow out smoothly enough for a player like me to use it. I just use the word "gay" (really fast)
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I actually use the words a lot in a non-hateful way (b...but raz...aren't you gay?? yeah I am). I don't really find them offensive used in a manner to describe something that sucks or anything similar and honestly any other term would be just as bad to some other group pretty much and the other alternatives usually don't carry as much power behind the words.
The times I find it offensive is like when Shepperd used the term as a GENERAL WAY to describe homosexuals. Using GAY FAGGITS when homosexuals is just as appropriate to the conversation adds a connotation of hate behind the whole thing and makes me (and others) pretty uncomfortable.
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See, even the homosexuals themselves don't think it's offensive, so say it all you want
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heh theres a new server at work that is gay so I have consciously tried to avoid referring to things as gay or calling anyone in his prescence a faggot
actually I've really been kind of trying to cut it out of my vocabulary in general cause I think its pretty negative and there are just so many better words out there
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I'd just like to make it perfectly clear that I've grown up using the words: gay, faggot, queer, twink, nancy boy, flamer, and homo for years and despite what it means to others I just can't seem to stop.
so, replace it with some sort of filter if you want but I really REALLY doubt that I'll ever be able to control what comes out of my mouth and/or fingers.
And what the hell, thats THE WHOLE POINT of using the word. Its an insult, its supposed to offend people.
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And what the hell, thats THE WHOLE POINT of using the word. Its an insult, its supposed to offend people.
Beause it's insentive to a demographic of humans. It's not like shit or fuck which are just slang for feces and the act of having sex respectively. It's basically on the same level as nigger, cunt, and wetback but most people don't find it to be AS offensive even though it's basically the same thing (belittling humans).
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I odn't care about no fukin humans
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The words have taken on a less "hateful" meaning in our society, akin to lame etc. I don't think this is something that should be filtered/warned for/banned for, if it is used in a non-hateful way.
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Then call them elephantine instead
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I tend to sort of cringe when people say homophobic stuff, but "faggot" in itself doesn't seem to do that unless its placed in a clearly homophobic context.
Racial slurs though tend to make me cringe regardless of their context.
I think its pretty clear none of these words should be censored though. I mean if a clearly racist or homophobic dude comes in here and starts doing bigoted rants, the words he uses wont really matter, and the idiotic meaning will seep through regardless of filters.
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i just realized i say "fag" a lot more than "faggot". i almost never say "faggot."
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i just realized i say "fag" a lot more than "faggot". i almost never say "faggot."
one syllable words are scientifically proven to be funnier than multi-syllable
The words have taken on a less "hateful" meaning in our society, akin to lame etc. I don't think this is something that should be filtered/warned for/banned for, if it is used in a non-hateful way.
considering nigger, heeb, cunt, chink, gook, wetback, spick, wop, polack, canuck, jap, yank, kraut, cracker, sand monkey, armo, babu, khokhol, et al haven't been filtered then i don't think fag, faggot, and gay will be.
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I'll rather not say anything in case you faggits misunderstand my sayings with some sort of homophobia.
:joke:
basically, I'm not trying reality here.
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You do say "faggot" in homophobic contexts though. Its not the same refering to gay people "faggots" when talking about gay adoption, than throwing the word "faggot" at a random douchebag. You also tend to use "nigger" in racist contexts.
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you seem to be forgetting that shepperd is hilarious
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No matter how Zany you think you are Shepperd I would still love for you to say "nigger" to a black person and try explain to them that its just a joke.
lol just tricking you
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lol afura
basically, I'm not trying reality here.
seems like you missed this part!
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Can we keep japfag?
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japfag is acceptable because everyone hate japfags (they all hate themselves)
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I suppose this sounds a bit mean but I'd only not use it if people around me are actually offended by it. Has this actually been a problem?
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I support the notion to filter out all undesireable words with final fantasy references.
I dunno I guess I've used words like Chocobo and Moogles a bit but I don't really think anything of it. They've been used to the point where any shock has totally worn off in the general conversation context. Yeah when Shepperd used it, that was ridiculous and shit, but that's due to context, and not that he used the word Moogle itself. Like I'm not going to be saying "cactuars deserve equal rights" when talking about racism, because using a slur to describe the people the slur is against is so very wrong and stupid.
I dunno I guess context is the only real important thing here for me personally.
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I've long since come to the conclusion that there is a discernable difference between a gay person and a faggot, a black person and a nigger, a Hispanic person and a beaner.
I'm not sure, but I believe it was Richard Pryar who noted that a nigger is an ignorant, annoying, lowly individual. Of course we all know this isn't true for every black person on Earth. But given that, an ignorant, annoying lowly white person can be a nigger too.
As a gay male, I call people faggots all the time- assuming they are one. They don't have to be gay, but if they're a shallow, superficial, annoyingly feminine male, they're a faggot. I consider myself the kind of individual you can't tell is gay, so I've come to really resent the group of people who establish what is in my opinion a negative stereotype that is often used as a judge against my own character without being true.
Most people aren't so "clued in," though, so I do have to be careful about the context.
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I've long since come to the conclusion that there is a discernable difference between a gay person and a faggot, a black person and a nigger, a Hispanic person and a beaner.
I'm not sure, but I believe it was Richard Pryar who noted that a nigger is an ignorant, annoying, lowly individual. Of course we all know this isn't true for every black person on Earth. But given that, an ignorant, annoying lowly white person can be a nigger too.
Something tells me you still wouldn't call a black guy who is "an ignorant, annoying, lowly individual" a nigger. Well I hope you wont. Because you see, it will imply the guy is an ignorant, annoying and a lowly individual BECAUSE he is black. Then what, youd explain to him some white people are niggers too? Real smooth!
You'd have to be pretty clueless if you couldn't see why choosing to use that word instead of another would come off as racist for most people who watch the scene.
Also things like "heh I know not ALL blacks are annoying lowly individuals" seem to imply "BUT MOST ARE THOUGH" har
You are either really racist or horribly awkward in your choice of words
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I've long since come to the conclusion that there is a discernable difference between a gay person and a faggot, a black person and a nigger, a Hispanic person and a beaner.
I'm not sure, but I believe it was Richard Pryar who noted that a nigger is an ignorant, annoying, lowly individual. Of course we all know this isn't true for every black person on Earth. But given that, an ignorant, annoying lowly white person can be a nigger too.
As a gay male, I call people faggots all the time- assuming they are one. They don't have to be gay, but if they're a shallow, superficial, annoyingly feminine male, they're a faggot. I consider myself the kind of individual you can't tell is gay, so I've come to really resent the group of people who establish what is in my opinion a negative stereotype that is often used as a judge against my own character without being true.
Most people aren't so "clued in," though, so I do have to be careful about the context.
ahahaha please tell me this is a joke post.
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how hard is it to avoid words which offend large portions of the population for the extremely valid reason of them being prejudicial, bigoted and stupid. you aren't doing yourself any favours by using these words either, the only people you are gonna ingratiate yourself with are idiots or assholes.
i mean just stay away from the word faggot. i realise it's meaning is almost always totally different on these forums but do you really want to have to justify you using homophobic terms when you could say anything else to yourself? even if it's a habit, you can break habits.
honestly i think a word filter for the word faggot to something like moogle or chocobo would be a great idea. it's not a swear word or an insult, it's a hate word and i don't care how you redefine it, it makes us all look bad.
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or we should just make a filter that changes one racial or offensive slur to another, just to be confusing and it will make people stop using them altogether because they'll not be able to get their point across:
nigger -> wasp
wetback -> towelhead
faggot -> straighty
to avoid ppl learning the pattern the filter would be randomized each time. yeah!
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I try not to say "thats retarded" and things like that as much as I used too, like many people here said before. it makes you feel like a huge dick if someone is around,who is actually handicapped, or someone that knows someone who is, and so on
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Seriously though, this sort of rejection of this type of thing because UGH PC is pretty batshit. People have this aversion to political correctness' increasing role in our culture because idk, I guess they're too dumb to understand why what they're saying is bad, or maybe they just don't give a shit, or maybe it's a PERSONAL LIBERTY issue who the fuck knows, but it's totally unnecessary. The entire point of things like this is to be more sensitive to what these words mean to other people, and how they affect them when you say it. That's really it; so many people just do not understand or empathize with people around them and I think everyone's lives would be a lot better if people at least made an effort instead of callously dismissing these things. So yeah the answer is that if you ignore things like this then it makes you an insensitive asshole and that's probably part of the reason people don't like you Catslacks!
Also, Stadsport's post is pretty bad because it assumes that you can just take words that have long historic meanings and connotations, and evoke a myriad of emotions from the people who hear them as a result, and just completely redefine their meaning. Oh okay, nigger isn't a racial slur for black people, it just means you're dumb and lazy, REGARDLESS of race. Nevermind the fact that it originated as being specifically intended for blacks, or that the word itself has centuries of vitriol and hate attached to it, the meaning of the word just suddenly changed. I guess all the people who dislike hearing it because of what it means to them and because of the era it brings to mind should just put it all out of their mind, because Stadsport says it doesn't mean that anymore. Thanks, Stadsport! Thank you for enlightening us, for... cluing us in.
Hey, you know what, when I say cunt, I don't mean it as a sexist pejorative term for women, I just mean it as in women who nag too much, and not even just women, either! You know, if a dude's nagging too much, he's a cunt too. It's important to note that this isn't incredibly naive or insensitive at all, even though to anyone with an inkling of intelligence, it seems like it clearly is.
So yeah that's an awful argument. Faggot isn't as bad as nigger in this respect, but it's not GOOD, either. There're still a few decades of fairly intense prejudice attached to the word; you can't just erase all that on a whim.
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No no no no word filters are retarded (heh sorry if you have downs syndrome...)
If you think these terms are dumb, just don't use them. Don't force others not to use them by some WORD POLICE, thats so fucking stupid. Or if you do place a filter, replace the term by something gay(HEH) like "THE N-WORD NO ONE SHALL SPEAK" so everyone knows GW members are too fucking dumb to understand why some words are more sensitive than others without rules banning their use.
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No no no no word filters are retarded (heh sorry if you have downs syndrome...)
hey my little brother has down syndrome and yeah it pretty much makes me very sad when people make thoughtless jokes about it. this isn't the worst one i've seen by far but just here is an example of a person who doesn't like that word at all.
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well I did say I was sorry, so it was far from thoughtless!
Well that is, it WAS thoughtless for any person who could be offended by the term "retarded" who had a condition that was NOT Downs syndrome, because it seems to imply I am only sorry for people who suffer of DOWNS and not of all the thousands of other conditions out there.
(and also I should have added a part about the sicknesses and ailments we do not know about yet, just in case someone reads this in a few years and a new brain illness is discovered until then...)
(heh heh Im like, making a point about the fact we would have to draw a line between the kinds of people that are okay to insult and the kinds that arnt, which makes these word filters dumb)
(heh heh my point again is, we have to make our own decisions about what we choose to use and not place some sort of system to make that choice for us)
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what? you're missing the entire point and saying stupid shit. i barely even understand you. guass your the refard lmao!!!
the reasons words like faggot and retard would be acceptable to put in a word filter is because these words have no defensible reason to exist. just because you use them in some other context does not dissolve the kind of hurt they carry for many people, or the awfulness of their original and STILL WIDELY ACCEPTED definition (outside of stupid fuckers on forums). you don't want people edging in on what is "acceptable" to say? well how about this isn't about you or your shitty jokes. it's about the people who can't help whatever it is the words were invented for. an decent person wouldn't have some kind of problem with these words being filtered out on discussion forums. the reason we have moderation is to keep discussions you know, somewhat civilised and fair. i'm not saying okay faggot is filtered out that word will never be a problem again! but it would remove some ugliness from the forums and i dunno it would just make me feel better to come to a place where people don't say faggot because it is a juvenile and pathetic word.
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I got it covered guys, I am filtering every bad word on the forums. I'll have it done soon.
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what would we do without you, scubacoaster youre the best
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Yeah I'm just going to go on record as saying I think filtering every insensitive word people might be inclined to use here is a bad idea!
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i'm not trying to demand it, i just mean to say i can't think of any good arguments against it and i already said a couple which seem justified to me.
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I say cocksucker more than I would fag or faggot, because it's just so much more satisfying to say, but I still make an effort to tone it down when there's a chance people will misinterpret it... Still, I think that some swearwords just fit a situation so well that it kind of overrides whatever stigma they have. I mean, a word like 'pussy' might be misogynist but sometimes it's just the exact right word to use when describing a specific person. So while I won't just use it indiscriminantly regardless of context, I won't just completely throw it away either.
So yeah, I guess people just have to find their own balance between being a rabidly anti-PC insensitive asshole and becoming one of those people who say darn or sugar when they want to say shit or fuck.
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lets try to defend the existence of the following words: "fuck", "crap", "shit", "dung", "mathematics", "orthopedic", "blubbering".
I say we ban these fuckers. We replace them with "heh".
Also ban the letter z. Who the fuck uses that one.
I don't know about you, but I cut out these words from all of the dictionaries I have at home. I also entirely ignore people who use them. I know, I could just not use them myself because I think they're fucking stupid words, but I thought of going that extra mile and also force everyone around me to do the same thing. Heh... thats how I roll....
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I have a housemate who has a "homophobia is gay" badge :)
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anti-PC insensitive asshole and becoming one of those people who say darn or sugar when they want to say shit or fuck.
i guess i should point out i'm not one of the latter group obviously. words like shit fuck dick pussy asshole prick etc are good words i say. see now i feel a little silly cos i never imagined feeling like i would be on that side of the argument i just can't think of any place words like faggot, retard or nigger have on discussion forums which are aiming for anything higher than the youtube comments page.
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Well, I think the thing is, you can't compare normal obscenities to slurs. Obscenities may offend some people, but they're generally pretty accepted and I don't think there's a language in existence that doesn't have them so that's just kind of part of language as a whole. Racial slurs are actually insensitive to entire groups of people and are almost guaranteed to offend. There's a huge difference between a word that originated as a way to express strong emotion or whatever and a word that originated as a way to subjugate and hurt people. So yeah I don't really think you can just draw parallels between words like shit and fuck and words like faggot and nigger.
To be fair, pussy and cunt are borderline, especially the latter, but things like dick, prick, asshole, et al are fairly incomparable to legitimate slurs, I would say.
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was that is response to me? cos i don't disagree with any of that
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No, it was a response to Pyschoskull and maybe catamites since he mentioned traditional swearing as well.
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I wasn't actually trying to say that 'nigger' is in any way equivalent to 'fuck', I was just using it as an example of the two extremes: on one hand you've got saying what you want regardless of how insensitive it is, and on the other you have avoiding any possibility of offending people at all no matter how slight the odds of it might be. The latter was mainly based on this article (http://hugoboy.typepad.com/hugo_schwyzer/2004/09/words_words_wor.html) where the guy says words like 'asshole' and 'sucks' are anti-gay.
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My idea that people should simply not use them by their own accord rather than have a system that prevents their use in the first place still stands, regardless of what the words are.
Some subject matters are also very sensitive for some people too. Like rape. Should we place a forum-wide ban on topics talking about rape in the news or in general? A lot of people get raped you know, and I'm sure that the word "rape" or even "sex" could have a much worse effect on them than the word "nigger" or "faggot" on blacks and homosexuals. Also, are we allowed to talk about racism itself? Would topics about racism be filled with "THE N-WORD" when someone quotes Mel Gibson?
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the point is a word such as rape or WHATEVER has many different uses, and it's a word which will be necessary in order for a discussion to continue without difficultly. the words i have been talking about have one use and only one, and i don't think anyone's arguing that using those slurs is something you can defend successfull. frankie, your logic here is pathetic. apart from this one point:
Would topics about racism be filled with "THE N-WORD" when someone quotes Mel Gibson?
this is where it might get silly, and it's why i'm not saying i believe a word filter should be put in place now! it might also get a little silly when people type these words into their messages and it comes up chocobo or whatever and everyone knows what they are saying but suddenly find it really awkward to argue against them.
so i guess a system of context warns for uses of these slurs would be the best idea, you know, allowing for absolutely necessary uses of the word so that people know what is being talked about. and i think that is what happens now, right? great job, then!
so i guess now i've thought this word filter thing through and i guess it's not such a hot idea after all. this is nothing to do with you though, frankie, you have said nothing which isn't wrong, offensive or irrelevant in this topic.
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Well I think the argument that banning subject matter that might be controversial is the same as filtering incredibly offensive slurs is pretty ridiculous! There's nothing offensive or insensitive about discussing something or having a conversation if you're not forcing a person to take part in it. The same can't be said for just calling people faggots all the time.
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Well I think the argument that banning subject matter that might be controversial is the same as filtering incredibly offensive slurs is pretty ridiculous!
Its not just because of controversy if the reason for their banning is that "it can offend people". Would you be offended if someone did a rape joke and you are a rape victim?
Its still in the idea of banning stuff that is offensive, and my idea is that something being offensive isn't a good reason enough to ban its use.
Its just a good reason TO NOT USE IT PERSONALLY. Or at least, to use it with caution, keeping in mind some people are sensitive about it.
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Man, there's a difference between a terrible rape joke and just TALKING ABOUT RAPE. I might warn for a bad rape joke but not for the latter, but yeah I don't really think anyone is saying filtering is a good solution at this point. Really, it was just jamicus that even thought so to begin with.
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okay guys done it
enjoy :)
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thanks a fucking lot jamicus
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Man, there's a difference between a terrible rape joke and just TALKING ABOUT RAPE. I might warn for a bad rape joke but not for the latter, but yeah I don't really think anyone is saying filtering is a good solution at this point. Really, it was just jamicus that even thought so to begin with.
There is a difference yes: one of them is TRYING TO BE MEAN, so its pretty much flaming. It depends on the context. Just like racial slurs. heh heh my point heh heh
Also I know, the filter part is the only part I disagreed with, too. So yeah we all agree really, lets hold hands!
(not you jamicus... I... I hate you...so much.. :fogetshakefist: )
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Its not just because of controversy if the reason for their banning is that "it can offend people". Would you be offended if someone did a rape joke and you are a rape victim?
Its still in the idea of banning stuff that is offensive, and my idea is that something being offensive isn't a good reason enough to ban its use.
Its just a good reason TO NOT USE IT PERSONALLY. Or at least, to use it with caution, keeping in mind some people are sensitive about it.
you still don't get it! you seem to think saying the word "rape" and making a rape joke are the same thing. the word rape can be used in all kinds of ways, rape jokes are only intended to laugh at a rape victims expense. you see? one isn't terrible (the first one) and the other is (the second one)
the word fudge can be used in all kinds of ways, the word nincompoop cannot. one isn't terrible (the first one) and one is (the second).
you are bringing up things which are irrelevant and making yourself look stupid so think about the difference!
edit:
i feel happier about my life with these new word filters courtsey of scubacoaster. thanks scubacoaster!
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actually i can use nincompoop in a variety of ways speak for yourself jammie
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GW is now a PG-13 forum. If I missed any word filters out you can alert me about them here. Thanks for taking part chums.
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fudge
fucko
motherfucker
ben affleck
private dick
prick
poppycock
nincompoop
marijuana
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The seven words you can't say on TV circa 1978: Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, and Tits. If these are not all filtered out, you're not doing your job.
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You can't say tits or piss on cable television?
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As I said: "There is a difference yes: one of them is TRYING TO BE MEAN, so its pretty much flaming. It depends on the context. Just like racial slurs. heh heh my point heh heh"
example of context in which racial slurs and other insensitive words arn't meant to be attacking the minorities they refer to: This topic.
Also most of the uses of these words at Gaming World as far as I know.
Also jamicus stop saying things like "heh stop saying that its makes you look stupid" because it makes you look like a mean meanie
youre not a mean meanie are you?
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You can't say tits or piss on cable television?
This was from the late 70s. Time were different then. Now, you can pretty much do anything you want on cable TV because the FCC doesn't have the authority to censor it.
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This is like the April Fools censorship joke ... except it's not April Fools. homosexual;
what's up with that semi-colon just chillaxin' with the censored word. don't censor chillanxin' plzzzzz buddy.
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:fogetpinecone:
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The bad thing about it is not the censorship but that at least one new admin has no problems with changing word filters just for fun and I wonder whatever else he's going to do and how he's going to abuse his admin powers, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Hahahaha.... Man if you think changing word filters for a few hours just for kicks is serious abuse of power then I think maybe you should be the admin instead of me.
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i wish people would use poppycock more. its such a great word. maybe they do in britain or whatever but we need it in america. british slang is so adorable!
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Hahahaha.... Man if you think changing word filters for a few hours just for kicks is serious abuse of power then I think maybe you should be the admin instead of me.
no thanks!
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The bad thing about it is not the censorship but that at least one new admin has no problems with changing word filters just for fun and I wonder whatever else he's going to do and how he's going to abuse his admin powers, but I hope I'm wrong.
yeah man what a serious breach of trust this joke that has no adverse effects whatsoever is
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Yes it starts small but in the next day there is a military dictatorship and you don't know where it came from
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And now they revert it, hmmmm
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I try to avoid FAGGOT usually but I still say fag sometimes (as if that's any better) and I use gay pretty liberally WHAT DO I DO
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And now they revert it, hmmmm
changing word filters for a few hours
exactly what he said he was gonna do......we....we're in trouble...
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Stop making me sound like an idiot golden ratio
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magical negro, quit being a fucking pussy.
this site is one massive fagfest, so the terminology of fag, faggit, faggot, figgits, gays, gheys, etc are all viable disses, as being homosexual is just plain dumb.
nuff said
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pretty much, this topic is ridiculous
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magical negro, quit being a fucking pussy.
this site is one massive fagfest, so the terminology of fag, faggit, faggot, figgits, gays, gheys, etc are all viable disses, as being homosexual is just plain dumb.
nuff said
this isn't even a good troll, man.
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Something tells me you still wouldn't call a black guy who is "an ignorant, annoying, lowly individual" a nigger. Well I hope you wont. Because you see, it will imply the guy is an ignorant, annoying and a lowly individual BECAUSE he is black. Then what, youd explain to him some white people are niggers too? Real smooth!
You'd have to be pretty clueless if you couldn't see why choosing to use that word instead of another would come off as racist for most people who watch the scene.
Also things like "heh I know not ALL blacks are annoying lowly individuals" seem to imply "BUT MOST ARE THOUGH" har
You are either really racist or horribly awkward in your choice of words
sweet you read my entire post except the last sentence thx
As for the last comment, I like to think that GW isn't so collectively stupid that I would have to word something that petty to keep from insulting everyone*. Do you really think I believe most black people are "ignorant lowly individuals," or are you just trying to point out obvious but minor inaccuracies in word choice?
*guess not
Also, Stadsport's post is pretty bad because it assumes that you can just take words that have long historic meanings and connotations, and evoke a myriad of emotions from the people who hear them as a result, and just completely redefine their meaning. Oh okay, nigger isn't a racial slur for black people, it just means you're dumb and lazy, REGARDLESS of race. Nevermind the fact that it originated as being specifically intended for blacks, or that the word itself has centuries of vitriol and hate attached to it, the meaning of the word just suddenly changed. I guess all the people who dislike hearing it because of what it means to them and because of the era it brings to mind should just put it all out of their mind, because Stadsport says it doesn't mean that anymore. Thanks, Stadsport! Thank you for enlightening us, for... cluing us in.[/quote
The point of my post was NOT to say it's "ok" to call anyone anything, or to try to redefine any hateful slur. The point is that there is a difference between using the word "Faggot" as an insult versus using it as an ordinary part of speech. If you're the kind of person who's offended by the word "faggot," you need to take a step back and try to understand why it offends you. If you're not what one would consider a faggot, you're putting power behind the word. This is why I don't get offended when someone says "That's gay," because if I did, it would reinforce the idea that being gay is something negative, which is obviously not something I agree with. If you ARE what one would consider a faggot (regardless of whether you're gay or straight, again), it's a direct attack on you as a person, which is obviously very hurtful, however valid. Again, this doesn't make it okay to use such words in everyday speech, as you risk unintentionally insulting people. But again, the point of my post isn't to say it's okay to use such words in ordinary speech, just that there are multiple uses for these words. How they affect you is almost always determined by YOU. Don't put the power behind the word, and people will stop using it, or its meaning will change (which is the point of this topic).
Edit:
lol
(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/25471/lolrealjock.jpg)
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Well, I think the point is that saying WELL NOT EVERY BLACK GUY IS DUMB instead of saying NO MOST ARENT BUT SOME ARE sort of implies that you think that the exceptions are the ones who aren't dumb, not the ones who are. I hope I don't have to explain why this isn't good!
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you have a button for 4chan stadsport..... YOU HAVE A BUTTON ON YOUR BROWSER FOR 4CHAN YOU HAVE A BUTTON FOR 4CHAN
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oh shit stadsport.
fucking closet btard
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you have a button for 4chan stadsport..... YOU HAVE A BUTTON ON YOUR BROWSER FOR 4CHAN YOU HAVE A BUTTON FOR 4CHAN
Don't worry, I actually just go to /o/ (which is basically /b/ with cars).
Well, I think the point is that saying WELL NOT EVERY BLACK GUY IS DUMB instead of saying NO MOST ARENT BUT SOME ARE sort of implies that you think that the exceptions are the ones who aren't dumb, not the ones who are. I hope I don't have to explain why this isn't good!
I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree, but what I'm saying is that I like to think GW knows that I don't believe black people who don't suck are a minority, so I shouldn't have to spell that out. Apparently I was wrong.
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What it sounds like is that we are arguing purely about the idea of stereotyping. Who the fuck cares? Thats whats wrong with this world nowadays. Everyone is so fucking concerned with being "Politically correct" and not hurting anyones feelings. Grow some fucking balls and nut up. Its not that hard. The world has changed, and its a dog-eat-dog world where not everyone is going to treat you like a child. Case-closed, fucking nut up. You can call me a fucking gay cracker all you want and I dont give a flying fuck.
nuff said
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faggot has a great rign to it, its probably the best thing to call somoene but I decided it was pretty shit a while ago so I quit and became a gay guy iunstaid
you're all shit though so just listen to drfunk and NUT UP or whatever thef uck he said
what the fuck, dr funk
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I've never really resorted to using gay or faggot all that often. Every now and then it might slip out and I use it in the sense of "that sucks" but instead saying "pfft, that's gay." If anything, the one word I'm trying to rid myself of using is "retarded" and applying that in a general sense kind of like what you guys are discussing with the terms highlighted the thread title.
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What it sounds like is that we are arguing purely about the idea of stereotyping. Who the fuck cares? Thats whats wrong with this world nowadays. Everyone is so fucking concerned with being "Politically correct" and not hurting anyones feelings. Grow some fucking balls and nut up. Its not that hard. The world has changed, and its a dog-eat-dog world where not everyone is going to treat you like a child. Case-closed, fucking nut up. You can call me a fucking gay cracker all you want and I dont give a flying fuck.
nuff said
but you get pissed off when we mention your mom!
so... as long as it doesnt hit home, amirite?
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but you get pissed off when we mention your mom!
so... as long as it doesnt hit home, amirite?
you got that right!
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Frankly I am appalled that we can even have an argument over this. How can anyone call themselves a gentleman if their vocabulary is rife with such atrocities of language? If you must insult someone, attack the individual. It's just so much less personal if you're using derogatory terminology as a replacement for actual thought. You're much more likely to offend the other people reading your post than the original target.
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Frankly I am appalled that we can even have an argument over this. How can anyone call themselves a gentleman if their vocabulary is rife with such atrocities of language? If you must insult someone, attack the individual. It's just so much less personal if you're using derogatory terminology as a replacement for actual thought. You're much more likely to offend the other people reading your post than the original target.
I think this forum has no "gentlemen" conduct. I mean the main lingo here is lax punctuation/spelling, so we're not striving for a higher standard or communication or anything like that. I think this was more a discussion on whether you feel bad about using the words because they can be pretty offensive in certain contexts. I doubt any words are gonna be banned.
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What it sounds like is that we are arguing purely about the idea of stereotyping. Who the fuck cares? Thats whats wrong with this world nowadays. Everyone is so fucking concerned with being "Politically correct" and not hurting anyones feelings. Grow some fucking balls and nut up. Its not that hard. The world has changed, and its a dog-eat-dog world where not everyone is going to treat you like a child. Case-closed, fucking nut up. You can call me a fucking gay cracker all you want and I dont give a flying fuck.
nuff said
that's stupid, what do you live in a cave.
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he's just riding the straight talk express so why don't you get off the tracks
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I leave for one week and this is how you repay me?
Hey, I didn't read the subsequent discussion, but let me give you my extremely well-informed opinion anyway. I think that using pejorative words is very lame. If you feel the need to use them: fine, go right ahead and do so. But I've decided that I'll refrain from using them because I think they're disrespectful (BUZZWORD of the century here in the Netherlands) and, well, not really necessary to get your point across anyway.
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Living in the UK, faggot is a word that doesn't really tend to surface in conversation that often. To me, a faggot will always be an inferior meat product ( http://www.tesco.com/superstore/xpi/5/xpi50150805.htm ). Did anybody ever enjoy eating these things? I swear, I've seen dog meat that looks like it contains more real meat. Also, fun fact: Fray Bentos steak and kidney pies smell exactly the same as Pedigree Chum meatloaf variety (or whatever its called, the one that doesn't have the jelly in it).
Back on topic, using 'gay' to describe things in a derogatory manner isn't cool, but it mainly seems like a childish thing to do, as you get older less people do it, just seems like a nasty habit (most) people grow out of.
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Back on topic, using 'gay' to describe things in a derogatory manner isn't cool, but it mainly seems like a childish thing to do, as you get older less people do it, just seems like a nasty habit (most) people grow out of.
Unfortunately, a very large part of the population refuses to grow out of anything they picked up at around the age of 12.
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I say we replace all instances of "gay" with "jewish" and "faggot" with "jew"
That'll solve all of our problems, right?
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I'm gay, and personally I do find it a little offensive. What annoys me the most though, is when my friends use it around me with no regard and sometimes they even are bastards enough to say "oh, I meant the other meaning". However, to counteract this I just call my friends hetrosexuals and pussy lickers as an insult and they usually apologise.
Notable though, when I first joined this forum, I thought it was homophobic (like the bastards at RMRK (http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,1716.0.html)) and when I found out there were actually other gay members here I was suprised.
I think a word filter would be a bad idea, because then we couldn't talk about it in a serious context.
OR how about only gay members can say it?
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OR how about only gay members can say it?
If I catch you saying "hetero", "straight" or ANYTHING ELSE I'm going to come down on you like a ton of bricks son.
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(like the bastards at RMRK (http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,1716.0.html))
amazing link, everyone should read this it's fantastic.
also that sucks that someone thought we were homophobic from this stuff, I've actually had a friend read marmot's sig (just the words FAGGOTMEXICAN in big letters) and kind of look at me with disappointment.