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General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 01:23:30 pm

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 01:23:30 pm
Man oh man, the reviews are starting to pour in for MGS4 and they are ridiculous (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/877/877611p3.html).  Normally I roll my eyes whenever I see glossy shit like this but Eurogamer, who is known for harsh (but still fair) reviews, dropped the bomb here (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=143797&page=3).

JESUS CHRIST MY FAVORITE GAME GOT AN ABOVE AVERAGE SCORE TO ARMS MEN!!.

Gamefags exploded, the commentary exploded, man-children everywhere exploded.  This topic is both about the upcoming MGS game and also about how vidya gaymers take the 1-10 rating system waaaay too seriously.  An 8/10 is fucking way above average.  On a numbers basis, the game is better than 80-89% of the games that came out the same year.  To me, personally, a 6/10 isn't a bad score because it's still AN ABOVE AVERAGE GAME and represents the fact that the positive outweigh the negative even though the flaws are more apparent.  I'll hesitate to plop down 60$ on a "barely above average" game but that doesn't mean it is necessarily the trash of the earth!

I really wish reviewers would get their priorities straightened because every blockbuster that doesn't score a 9 or better is instantly considered garbage by every gaymer that isn't a fan. 

Okay, this topic is now about anticipation for MGS4.  Begin the 300 posts of "omg can't wait"

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 01:24:48 pm
omg can't wait got special edition preordered gonna play 30 hours a day its gonna be a blast
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Dead Phoenix on May 31, 2008, 01:54:59 pm
8/10? Whats wrong, didn't have enough master chief for 'em, heh...

I'm not going to say anything(more) about the retarded responses people have to review scores, so i'll just get to the point.

I really want to play this game, but i'm a poor jobless loser with no ps3 and my friend who does have one, was never that interested and when he heard that it has a 6 gig install, he decided not to buy it at all(he's only got a 20 gig so space if often a problem) and while that wouldn't stop me I can see why some people could have a problem with it(personally i could live with slightly longer load times, or probably  whatever else they felt they needed a add an install to fix).
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: hero_bash on May 31, 2008, 02:04:11 pm
I love this series.. I have the 1st one in my PS, and the snes version solid snake.
Never got a chance to play 2nd or 3rd, but I've been also awaiting MGS4 release, not that I could play it soon but I'm just excited to see that this series is coming to an end. I really want to play it if I just have PS3,
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on May 31, 2008, 02:14:50 pm
I seriously can't wait for this game. I've been hyped up for this for years, ever since MGS2 came out.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on May 31, 2008, 02:26:59 pm
what i need now is a TV, PS3 and this. Total cost one billion euros.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: c0nfu53d on May 31, 2008, 02:47:35 pm
Urk. Stealth games are getting so old. MGS was a cool game, but the ideas are so over used it's all getting a bit stale. I'll pass on the new MGS. I've not played it, but I'm guessing 8/10 is generous.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on May 31, 2008, 02:54:39 pm
Preordered MGS4 some weeks ago, have been waiting for this even before I got PS3. It's one of the reasons why I bought PS3, actually.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Warlin on May 31, 2008, 03:09:42 pm
OH g-god it's finally coming. The game I have been waiting for for so long. I still have to go through MGS2 and 3 again. In any case, I liked all of the others so an 8/10 from some eurogames... which isn't a bad score at all.. isn't going to phase me.
When I saw this topic in the main board I thought it was going to say delayed. That would have sucked.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on May 31, 2008, 03:24:43 pm
Meh. I'll be sitting back forever on this until I get my hands on a PS3. :blarg:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 03:32:21 pm
Edge gave the game an 8/10 as well.

Also, this game has two 90 minute cutscenes. 

Let me bold that for you.  Two, JUST TWO of the cutscenes add up to THREE HOURS OF UNPLAYABLE CONTENT.

Is this a video game or a fucking interactive movie?  Goddammit Kojima.  According to Eurogamer and Edge the storyline meanders a lot and slows down after the mid-game "twist" and setting change.  I can see myself getting oh so bored.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on May 31, 2008, 03:49:50 pm
Ahahaha man, if the game's not even out yet, what are the douchebags on Gamefaqs even saying about the review?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on May 31, 2008, 03:53:37 pm
Edge gave the game an 8/10 as well.

Also, this game has two 90 minute cutscenes. 

Let me bold that for you.  Two, JUST TWO of the cutscenes add up to THREE HOURS OF UNPLAYABLE CONTENT.

Is this a video game or a fucking interactive movie?  Goddammit Kojima.  According to Eurogamer and Edge the storyline meanders a lot and slows down after the mid-game "twist" and setting change.  I can see myself getting oh so bored.
If that's true...then what the fuck?

I'll end up missing the cutscene anyway because I can't sit there for 90 minutes without getting interrupted. What the hell.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 04:08:32 pm
Ahahaha man, if the game's not even out yet, what are the douchebags on Gamefaqs even saying about the review?

You know gamefags, they all have esp and future-sight which lets them know how a game is played without having played it.  twlight princess (wii version) got an 8.7 one week before the game came out and every topic was "ZOMG BEST GAME EVER WTF IS THIS SHIT??"

Quote
I'll end up missing the cutscene anyway because I can't sit there for 90 minutes without getting interrupted. What the hell.

Apparently you can now pause during cinemas and they added a FF12-esque skip system.  I think Xenosaga let you save during the super long cutscenes so hopefully MGS4 will have 15 minute intermissions or something.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on May 31, 2008, 04:22:03 pm
Apparently you can now pause during cinemas and they added a FF12-esque skip system.  I think Xenosaga let you save during the super long cutscenes so hopefully MGS4 will have 15 minute intermissions or something.
Yeah I know some games allow pausing now and shit but it doesn't help if I see like 60 minutes of a cutscene and then something freak happens (POWER DIES) and then i have to watch all of it over. idk i really hope you can save or something during them, that's crazy.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on May 31, 2008, 04:36:29 pm
I thought it was confirmed there were no 90 minute cut scenes?

Man what is this 9.9 bullshit man. They might as well put 9.985 christ.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on May 31, 2008, 05:18:47 pm
I was certain the review really was like, 6/10 or something. But 8/10 is awesome.

I agree with you Marcus, people misinterpret review ratings all the motherfucking time. It's viciously annoying.

Also I really want saving mid-cutscene. That's smart. 90 minutes cutscenes are ridiculous but since I'm very lenient I won't mind it personally. I'm still gonna have fun with this, regardless. That is, when I have a ps3.  :fogetshifty:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: jman00 on May 31, 2008, 05:30:47 pm
Fuck, a 90 minute cutscene!! New record folks of the half hour cutscene in Xenosaga, if its that long, I could order Pizza, go to the store, and EVEN make me a sandwich and that scene could still be playing, that's fucking amazing.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on May 31, 2008, 05:44:51 pm
Saving is still kind of less than what you'd want for a 90-minute cutscene (JESUS CHRIST this is ridiculous).  At that point you should really just be able to pause, fast forward, and rewind.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on May 31, 2008, 05:57:50 pm
Some guy from Gamepro who's beaten the game twice says that the cinemas, while long, he "doesn't recall one ever reaching 90 minutes."  Edge, whos reviewer beat the game, confirms that there are two 90 minute long cutscenes.

Which doucebag is lying step right up! 

Oh yeah, the game has somewhere between a 4.6gig install and a 6gig install.  This is ridiculous.  Several sources are contradicting each other.  Are there 50 different review versions of this game?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ralph on May 31, 2008, 10:09:34 pm
Are there 50 different review versions of this game?

Knowing Kojima, this could be EXACTLY what's going on.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Lars on May 31, 2008, 10:44:43 pm
I thought it was confirmed there were no 90 minute cut scenes?

Man what is this 9.9 bullshit man. They might as well put 9.985 christ.
It's their way of saying: "This is a really, really great game that every fan of the series or of stealth game in general should buy, but it's not as good a game as GTA4."

I think that's what they're saying. It's an amazing game but not as good as GTA4.


So the question arises: If GTA4 hadn't been released recently would MGS4 get a 10?

:speculation:


also lol two 90 minutes cutscenes that's awesome
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: big ass skelly on May 31, 2008, 10:59:44 pm
If that 90 minute cutscene thing isn't stupid reviewer exaggeration then that's just so hilarious.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: ThugTears666 on June 01, 2008, 01:37:06 am
 :mad: THIS BETTER BE GOOD 8/10 DOESNT DO IT FOR ME  :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: goat on June 01, 2008, 03:08:26 am
Personally, I don't care about how LONG the cutscenes are, as much as how entertaining they are. Can a video game really capture my attention with non interactive content for more than even an hour? Konami would have to jump the hurdles that even hollywood constantly fails to be able to accomplish this. Can I really get this from a GAME?

or, a better question, can it be possible to have a great game AND a great movie combined in one? My conscious tells me at least one will fail.

on a lighter note, it would be very surreal to watch a 90 minute cut-scene and then suddenly be dropped back into the game like nothing happened.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 01, 2008, 03:19:55 am
sorry i only play 9/10's and up.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: PTizzle on June 01, 2008, 05:32:47 am
The 90 minute cutscenes thing sounds like bullshit, but if I know when they are I'll just get some food and a beer and kick back like it's a movie.

It'll be a while before I play this because I haven't got any of the next-gen consoles yet, and the 360 is definitely the first one I want to get. But I will play it eventually, whether I have to borrow a PS3 or not.

Is there any possibility of a substance/subsistence style port to 360? Or is this totally PS3 exclusive?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 01, 2008, 05:36:25 am
The 90 minute cutscenes thing sounds like bullshit, but if I know when they are I'll just get some food and a beer and kick back like it's a movie.

It'll be a while before I play this because I haven't got any of the next-gen consoles yet, and the 360 is definitely the first one I want to get. But I will play it eventually, whether I have to borrow a PS3 or not.

Is there any possibility of a substance/subsistence style port to 360? Or is this totally PS3 exclusive?

it's probably gonna stay ps3 exclusive, maybe go to pc. Maybe. They used up an entire dual-sided blu-ray, so they would have to use SIX dual-sided DVD's for the XB360.

Probably not gonna happen.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: goat on June 01, 2008, 06:27:46 am
The 90 minute cutscenes thing sounds like bullshit, but if I know when they are I'll just get some food and a beer and kick back like it's a movie.

It'll be a while before I play this because I haven't got any of the next-gen consoles yet, and the 360 is definitely the first one I want to get. But I will play it eventually, whether I have to borrow a PS3 or not.

Is there any possibility of a substance/subsistence style port to 360? Or is this totally PS3 exclusive?

This is about as exclusive as you can get, they're really hoping this picks up PS3 sales. You might as well ask for Halo or Super Smash Bros Brawl on PS3.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on June 01, 2008, 10:33:25 am
I bought a PS3 for this and GTA4. When MGS4 is released I will be proud owner of a 24" 1080p compatible Samsung monitor too.

Ever so glad I didn't buy an FPS360 last year :)
(that doesnt matter anyway cause I can play on one of my housemate's 360s if I ever feel the need)
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: ThugTears666 on June 01, 2008, 10:49:32 am
I bought a PS3 for this and GTA4. When MGS4 is released I will be proud owner of a 24" 1080p compatible Samsung monitor too.



Isn't 24 quite small dude??
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 01, 2008, 11:13:08 am
Konami went behind Kojima's back and announced a 360 version but it's going to run about 400$.

(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/mgs4xbox360oj1.png)

You're better off just buying a PS3.



Isn't 24 quite small dude??

It doesn't matter much if it's sitting 3" from you.  I have a 1080p HDMI tv on my desk and I couldn't want anything bigger that's an arms reach away.

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: PTizzle on June 01, 2008, 11:19:56 am

Isn't 24 quite small dude??


Not for a monitor, methinks.

That's a shame about the port, I forgot about Blu-Rays capacity compared to HD-DVD's.

Still, I'm not keen on getting a PS3 for whatever reason (probably price and the fact I'm more interested in the other two) so I'm gonna wait and hope for a PC port or something.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 01, 2008, 11:24:25 am
It's DVDs dude. The X-Box 360 only uses its HD-DVD player for movies, and it doesn't support games I don't think, which is why I said they'd need 6 dual-sided DVDs (8.6 gb per dvd)

If they used Dual sided HD-DVD and stuff (they wouldn't, very few people bought HD-DVD players for the 360) then they'd only need 2 HD-DVDs, and that would be more possible.

But sales would suck.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 01, 2008, 11:44:28 am
Edge gave the game an 8/10 as well.

Also, this game has two 90 minute cutscenes. 

Let me bold that for you.  Two, JUST TWO of the cutscenes add up to THREE HOURS OF UNPLAYABLE CONTENT.

Is this a video game or a fucking interactive movie?  Goddammit Kojima.  According to Eurogamer and Edge the storyline meanders a lot and slows down after the mid-game "twist" and setting change.  I can see myself getting oh so bored.

I thought that was a rumor, many reviewers came out and debunked it saying there are some long cut scenes but not close to that long.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 01, 2008, 11:51:42 am
Right now, half the sources confirm and the other half deny it so maybe the half denying it were so caught up in the amazing storytelling (lol) and didn't notice the time...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 01, 2008, 12:03:28 pm
^That is a possibility. Well it IS Metal Gear...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on June 01, 2008, 12:40:30 pm
I don't think I've been so excited about a game since.... GTA4.

This summer = the summer of excellent games :)

@Afura:
24" is pretty big for a PC screen - two ft from corner to corner, 1920x1200 resolution (so 1080p chops 60px off top and bottom). The reason I bought it is so that I can have both my PC and PS3 rigged up to a screen with a button for changing input. Samsung I am getting is about £280 ($560 USD) and comes with 3 year warranty. Bang for buck :)

Compare that to a £1500 HDTV - no thanks.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on June 01, 2008, 02:26:30 pm
It's DVDs dude. The X-Box 360 only uses its HD-DVD player for movies, and it doesn't support games I don't think, which is why I said they'd need 6 dual-sided DVDs (8.6 gb per dvd)

If they used Dual sided HD-DVD and stuff (they wouldn't, very few people bought HD-DVD players for the 360) then they'd only need 2 HD-DVDs, and that would be more possible.

But sales would suck.
Well, Lost Odyssey used up 4 DVDs so I mean adding two more wouldn't be killer. Lots of people bought Lost Odyssey.

The problem with Lost Odyssey was that the American packaging was shit: 3 DVDs stacked on top of each other and the 4th in a paper sleeve.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 01, 2008, 04:22:27 pm
man it doesn't even look that great.

like what is all that space being used on!!!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on June 01, 2008, 04:27:00 pm
like what is all that space being used on!!!

Probably audio.

Anyway . . . I just got dumped and will be a lonely bachelor all summer and MGS4 is the only thing I have left in my life to look forward to.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 01, 2008, 04:29:49 pm
Hopefully this topic will shut up people like Ninja Pirate and RPG who keep saying MGS4 is coming out on 360.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ragnar on June 01, 2008, 06:56:29 pm
subs not dubs

wait nevermind

anyway I'm still waiting for a man on the street sort of review, like from someone on here. Because none of us would be afraid to say 'this is the stupidest shit ever' which sometimes I'm afraid this game might be
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: datamanc3r on June 01, 2008, 07:42:45 pm
I wonder if anyone missed the direct reference to GW in the second game?

Or the fact that the Patriots are ruining our intarwebz with this trash?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 01, 2008, 07:43:04 pm
Probably audio.

Anyway . . . I just got dumped and will be a lonely bachelor all summer and MGS4 is the only thing I have left in my life to look forward to.

There's also tens of thousands of uncompressed hi-res textures.  NO TWO BRICKS LOOK THE SAME!!1
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: fatty on June 01, 2008, 08:34:25 pm
man it doesn't even look that great.

like what is all that space being used on!!!
Codec calls.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 01, 2008, 11:54:32 pm
man it doesn't even look that great.

like what is all that space being used on!!!

what

dude

it looks amazing on an HD TV, what are you talkin' about!

also all that space is used on completely high resolution graphics and sound and music that are not compressed for the higher quality and shit. Kojima was pissed tho because 50GB wasn't enough for all that, so he had to compress some stuff a bit.

Also there's a HDD install after every act.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on June 02, 2008, 12:31:27 am
what

dude

it looks amazing on an HD TV, what are you talkin' about!

also all that space is used on completely high resolution graphics and sound and music that are not compressed for the higher quality and shit. Kojima was pissed tho because 50GB wasn't enough for all that, so he had to compress some stuff a bit.

Also there's a HDD install after every act.
acts? so it's more like a play than a movie then... :(
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Roman on June 02, 2008, 12:44:44 am
what

dude

it looks amazing on an HD TV, what are you talkin' about!

also all that space is used on completely high resolution graphics and sound and music that are not compressed for the higher quality and shit. Kojima was pissed tho because 50GB wasn't enough for all that, so he had to compress some stuff a bit.

Also there's a HDD install after every act.

i think he meant that it doesn't look that fun, but it doesn't matter because he's still wrong.

YOU'RE STILL WRONG STEEL.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 02, 2008, 12:55:12 am
oh.

idk, could interpret it either way.

Quote
acts? so it's more like a play than a movie then... :(​

yes.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 12:57:44 am
no, I meant graphically.

I mean it looks good yeah but not that much more impressive than Gears of War or something that's on one DVD!

gimme a screenshot or something I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6V0JDyHoAU

because this doesn't seem like it needs 16 discs or whatever.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 02, 2008, 01:01:40 am
yeah but dude, thats a youtube stream so it looks a lot of the quality of sound and shit. it looks way better on  an HD TV, and I can tell you that from just playing MGO. it looks better than GOW for sure, but you also have to factor in that he's using uncompressed graphics, with uncompressed music, with uncompressed sounds and shit, for a really long game (every MGS ever is a way longer experience than GOW, tbh.)  so it's gonna be massive.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 01:02:33 am
yeah even judging from whatever screenshots i've seen, i'm inclined to agree with steel.  i had no idea i was supposed to be BLOWN AWAY by these graphics until this topic.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 01:03:16 am
yeah dude a blu ray holds like 50 gigs, how the fuck did he fill that up.

I basically don't think it's impossible to compress these textures and not end up with more or less the same product!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 02, 2008, 01:10:59 am
yeah dude a blu ray holds like 50 gigs, how the fuck did he fill that up.

I basically don't think it's impossible to compress these textures and not end up with more or less the same product!

basically the game is supposed to be REALLY LONG (iirc, longer than all the other MGS's) since it is clearing up everything in the story, so there is a ton of graphics/sound/music/voice acting, and he decided not to compress anything because it's his last MGS forever and he wants it to be perfect.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 01:12:58 am
that's a dumb reason not to compress things imo.  not that it matters but my last mgs.........must be perfect.... is kind of conceited.  the dude's a MEDIOCRE GAME DEVELOPER, not fucking bach.  there's nothing worse than miserable douchebags like him treating the bullshit they do like it's high art.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 02, 2008, 01:18:37 am
that's a dumb reason not to compress things imo.  not that it matters but my last mgs.........must be perfect.... is kind of conceited.  the dude's a MEDIOCRE GAME DEVELOPER, not fucking bach.  there's nothing worse than miserable douchebags like him treating the bullshit they do like it's high art.
Hey fuck you. Kojima is fucking amazing man, the highest point human can go.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2098&Itemid=2
"Art is the stuff you find in the museum, whether it be a painting or a statue. What I'm doing, what videogame creators are doing, is running the museum--how do we light up things, where do we place things, how do we sell tickets? It's basically running the museum for those who come to the museum to look at the art. For better or worse, what I do, Hideo Kojima, myself, is run the museum and also create the art that's displayed in the museum."
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 01:20:15 am
ahahahaha I know you probably meant that quote in seriousness but dude what a douche.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 01:20:22 am
ahahaha wait you actually like hideo kojima?  i thought that was one of your really gay jokes like LOL I CHANGED MY NAME TO TUPAC.


you are a very funny kid psyburn.

and also yeah that quote is terrible and just proves my point that he's a giant faggot who takes himself and his artless bullshit way more seriously than either he or it deserves.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 01:21:45 am
"the highest point human can go"

man i just cannot get over this.  like, please tell me you're at least exaggerating about this part.  PLEASE TELL ME you do not really think this.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 01:25:13 am
nah, he's not but I guarantee you he's on IRC right now saying GODDAMMIT WHY AM I SO SHIT ALWAYS UGH...I SHOUDL JUST KILL MYSELF and Strangeluv sighs and types out some bullshit reassurement.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 02, 2008, 01:27:12 am
"the highest point human can go"

man i just cannot get over this.  like, please tell me you're at least exaggerating about this part.  PLEASE TELL ME you do not really think this.
Honestly I was exaggerating that part. The quote I wasn't but...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2008, 01:27:43 am
Kojima is one of those brilliant idiots that puts a lot of effort in what he does but as soon as he opens his mouth you want to pop him.  I remember he posted in his blog about looking at rocks and actually stopping and thinking about how the rock ended up there.  I remember a topic about a year back that made fun of him for walking around war torn countries for inspiration on his vidyas.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 01:30:59 am
Kojima is one of those brilliant idiots that puts a lot of effort in what he does but as soon as he opens his mouth you want to pop him.  I remember he posted in his blog about looking at rocks and actually stopping and thinking about how the rock ended up there.  I remember a topic about a year back that made fun of him for walking around war torn countries for inspiration on his vidyas.
man

if the games he makes are absurd, immature, and generally just NOT THAT GREAT and the things he says are dumb as hell, what part of him is brilliant?  do you really look at the mgs series with its overblown espionage storylines that you could find in any pulp contemporary war novel and think AHH, BRILLIANCE?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2008, 01:34:38 am
Metal Gear Solid 2 did what no video entertainment medium had ever done before and I'll argue that point to the ground.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: big ass skelly on June 02, 2008, 01:35:50 am
arrrgggghhhhh that quote.

ARRRRHRHGGHGHGHGG
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2008, 01:42:04 am
Metal Gear Solid 2 did what no video entertainment medium had ever done before and I'll argue that point to the ground.

Steel used to link to a blog that pretty much explained why but I lost the link a while ago.  It does a much better job explaining than I ever could.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on June 02, 2008, 01:54:16 am
no, I meant graphically.

I mean it looks good yeah but not that much more impressive than Gears of War or something that's on one DVD!

gimme a screenshot or something I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6V0JDyHoAU

because this doesn't seem like it needs 16 discs or whatever.
i really hope that's not an official trailer (like maybe some was edited in by that machinima thing idk i didn't pay much attention)

because FUCK it even has that blockbuster movie announcer in it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 02:04:27 am
basically where most of us would almost by nature recreated something like Metal Gear Solid 2 with some degree of irony, Hideo Kojima managed to reappropriate his previous game completely at face value. there's something admirable about someone with that degree of pride in their fruity little self, and while he may be full of shit entirely, at least then and now he's got a more respectable set of creative values than his fellow game creators who are more obsessed with polygon count than some idea of videogames as a medium. it requires an Andy Warhol level of delusion, but honestly I think the payoff of this completely stupid fucked up game with some of the worst plotting possible all done without so much of an iota of respect for the audience was worth it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 02:14:51 am
Metal Gear Solid 2 did what no video entertainment medium had ever done before and I'll argue that point to the ground.
Which was?  MGS2 was laughable and a GREAT GAME in the same way Xenogears was, but that's because it was such a ridiculous, clearly unintentionally hilarious game, when you look at his other projects.  He doesn't deserve praise for making a game that was just so bad it was funny.  Steel is talking about he just got way in over his head trying to do all this bullshit and failed miserably, but is that really admirable?  He had ambition which I admit is good, but the games are made so artlessly and it's filled with a bunch of half-assed philosophy so I don't think LOOSE AMBITION is enough to make up for the fact that he doesn't really know what he's doing and still takes himself way too serious regardless of this fact.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2008, 02:18:38 am
Which was?  MGS2 was laughable and a GREAT GAME in the same way Xenogears was, but that's because it was such a ridiculous, clearly unintentionally hilarious game, when you look at his other projects.  He doesn't deserve praise for making a game that was just so bad it was funny.

No, no Metal Gear Solid 2 was intentionally hilarious.  Xenogears was actually supposed to be serious but MGS2 was essentially a middle finger to the entire video game community and his fanbase in general.

If Steel can't find the link to the excellent article that explains this in clearer words than I can then I'll just have to paraphrase it myself.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 02, 2008, 02:20:14 am
No, no Metal Gear Solid 2 was intentionally hilarious.  Xenogears was actually supposed to be serious but MGS2 was essentially a middle finger to the entire video game community and his fanbase in general.

If Steel can't find the link to the excellent article that explains this in clearer words than I can then I'll just have to paraphrase it myself.
Yeah you keep saying this and, believe me, I understand why!  But MGS 1, 3, and now 4 aren't like that.  Nothing else about his career, especially that WARZONE shit, lends itself to the argument that he is really just some brilliant commentator on video games.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 02:22:04 am
well honestly this gets weakened by the creation of MGS3 and 4, but MGS2 seemed like such a creative little fuck you to gamers to get them out of this concept that all this ridiculous SWING SWORDS WITH SPY stuff was a really good plot and instead focus on all these little issues that he admittedly never pinned down.

basically it all depends how intentional you think he was in making such a weird kind of awful game.

also the commentary is by...tim rogers...

http://www.insertcredit.com/features/dreaming2/

sooooo take that with a huge grain of salt.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2008, 02:39:50 am
Yeah you keep saying this and, believe me, I understand why!  But MGS 1, 3, and now 4 aren't like that.  Nothing else about his career, especially that WARZONE shit, lends itself to the argument that he is really just some brilliant commentator on video games.

To be fair, MGS3 was supposed to be his final MGS game.  He had less influence on MGS4 which is mostly Murata's work in terms of storyline but there's a rumor spreading that Konami is pressuring him into doing MGS5.  MGS2 was an excellent mindfuck ending for the entire game world and MGS3 did a good job wrapping up a previously untouched character but the rest of the series could have stopped there.  Portable Ops did very little in terms of story other than subtly hint at why Big Boss went insane and how he had so many soldiers to back him up and MGS4 just seems to be a fan wank as it brings back every character that didn't die in a previous game.

The thing is, from a video game standpoint (which is where my "brilliant" remark comes from) he actually cares about delivering a quality product without focusing on unimportant things like top graphics and novelty features.  All of the MGS games contain a lot of minute details and easter eggs that aren't present in other games and these little things are proof that the man is a stickler for design.  I'm not going to argue plot because that's subjective, but the guy cares about the actual DESIGN of the game which is a lot to say because most directors/producers of any entertainment medium tend to sit in high back chairs far away from the actual product and dictate what happens in the shadows.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 02, 2008, 03:39:52 pm
also man sometimes even in the context of MGS3 and other games, you REALLY HAVE TO WONDER about MGS2.

like, one of the details Marcus kind of offhandedly referred to is the fact that if you switch to first person view and look at a picture this guard put up of a half naked woman, the view eventually starts bobbing up...and down...and up...and down...and you realize Snake is masturbating.

and then you can CALL OTACON and he's like S...SNAKE...WH...WHAT and press R2 to listen to Snake's thoughts, this game was nuts.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on June 02, 2008, 05:31:19 pm

Isn't 24 quite small dude??

For a TV... yeah (we got a 38" 1080i widescreen).. but for a monitor, that is pretty great (I am using an 18" 4:3).
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 06, 2008, 03:31:42 pm
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2008/06/01/konami-places-restriction-on-journalists-reviewing-mgs-4/

this is awesome, there's totally 90 minute cutscenes.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 06, 2008, 03:41:12 pm
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2008/06/01/konami-places-restriction-on-journalists-reviewing-mgs-4/

this is awesome, there's totally 90 minute cutscenes.

http://kotaku.com/5013357/kojima-productions-says-no-mgs4-90-minute-cutscenes

nop
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: ATARI on June 06, 2008, 03:49:20 pm
i always buy video games for the movies
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Standard Toaster on June 06, 2008, 04:04:12 pm
Hopefully this topic will shut up people like Ninja Pirate and RPG who keep saying MGS4 is coming out on 360.
i dont remember saying this but i think it would be pretty hilarious if it happened.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 06, 2008, 11:00:43 pm
Remember this picture from TGS06?  The character roster is now 100% accurate.

(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/angryblackguy/mgs49vl.webp)

I'll let you figure out what that means.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: tuxedo marx on June 06, 2008, 11:03:23 pm
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 06, 2008, 11:09:22 pm
You'd be
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 06, 2008, 11:19:30 pm
Liman you are a huge motherfucking faggot.

I hate you.

I knew you were a faggot but I never knew you'd go that far.

As far as to try to ruin my life.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 06, 2008, 11:26:35 pm
It's not but sometimes it's all a man has to live for... a solider on the battlefield..

fuck you liman fuck you
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 06, 2008, 11:52:40 pm
LIMAN I JUST WANT TO SAY YOU'VE SPOILED THE ENTIRE GAME FOR ME YOU FUCK AND YOU WON'T STOP

What the fuck are you trying to accomplish man? You keep fuckin' being a faggot sayin shit like "I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO KNOW". I fuckin tell you to stop but you keep going on and on and on.

JESUS CHRIST man.

LIMAN SHUT THE FUCK UP JESUS

I WAITED 4 YEARS FOR THIS GAME AND YOU WON'T STOP SPOILING EVERY STORY DETAIL MAN WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 06, 2008, 11:54:49 pm
i... i don't know how to react to this
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: tuxedo marx on June 06, 2008, 11:58:32 pm
psyburn

just chillax man
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Liman on June 07, 2008, 12:05:47 am
Warning: Harsh language!

(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/brainethics.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/sad-dog_resized.jpeg)

Yeah guys, I'm as stunned as you are!
Apparently I did something wrong... but do I deserve these comments? :(

Where is NinjaPirate when I need him?

EDIT: I've been tainted with a warn... there goes my last chance to become a mod.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: tuxedo marx on June 07, 2008, 12:12:49 am
Liman, I dare you to quote the spoilers topic.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 07, 2008, 01:41:31 am
I love spoilers. You should see the good side of them Psyburn: you found out some shocking stuff.... but do you know why it's there? NO?! Well then, you have to play to find out... heh...

Btw,
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 07, 2008, 01:22:32 pm
dude that's uh

I know it's Psyburn but cut it out. I'M THE HARRY POTTER GUY and honestly if this was a 9/11 topic (there is one) and if it was in the title and if it even said PSYBURN: CLICK HERE and inside SNAKE IS ACTUALLY KOJIMA or whatever that's all kind of different (I'd think it was funny and cruel but at least funny would be there) butttttt don't post the spoilers in a place that has always had a defacto rule about spoilers!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: goat on June 07, 2008, 01:46:36 pm
This was interesting:

http://megagames.com/news/html/console/hideokojimaneverhadmgsstoryplannedout.shtml

Apparently he didn't plan out the story, and improvised. Who'd have thought? Since MGS4 ties up all the loose ends, it doesn't give me much confidence hearing about this...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 07, 2008, 01:48:34 pm
The funny thing is, is that thru a couple of retcons, all the loose ends fixed actually make sense.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 07, 2008, 01:54:34 pm
Remember this picture from TGS06?  The character roster is now 100% accurate.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/angryblackguy/mgs49vl.jpg

I'll let you figure out what that means.

I kinda saw that coming, you know.

Kojima spoilers are easy to predict:
- All the events in the previous game were a lie/setup/simulation/dream staged by some unknown party
- A character (or more) will turn out to be another character (or have hidden motives/betray you)
- Love can bloom on the battlefield
- Dead people come back to life as arms, zombies, vampires, cyborgs and ghosts
- Every fact you're given in the first part of the game is shown to be a lie several times near the end (with truth being defined over and over)
- There's a blood relation between the main character and the villain (mostly brother/father/etc.), or a relation that resembles that
- All villains were betrayed by someone
- You're a pawn...
- etc.

I love the MGS series, the writing is hilariously bad, and everything is over the top, and people actually think it's deep. It's fun, in a way. But still, don't spoil things here guys, it's kinda funnier to learn about the spoiler in the midst of a 90 minutes cutscene with characters doing secret handshakes and crying while the national anthem of the soviet union plays in the background.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Christophomicus on June 07, 2008, 05:10:58 pm
This was interesting:

http://megagames.com/news/html/console/hideokojimaneverhadmgsstoryplannedout.shtml

Apparently he didn't plan out the story, and improvised. Who'd have thought? Since MGS4 ties up all the loose ends, it doesn't give me much confidence hearing about this...

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllshhittttt. Not calling you out and calling you a dick or w/e, but there is always some degree of planning when it comes to huge things like this, and even if subconsciously, he certainly planned the whole thing out pretty intensively, I reckon.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 07, 2008, 05:19:09 pm
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllshhittttt. Not calling you out and calling you a dick or w/e, but there is always some degree of planning when it comes to huge things like this, and even if subconsciously, he certainly planned the whole thing out pretty intensively, I reckon.

Here's a link to the Reuter's article (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1531492720080529).  Kojima never planned to write MGS4 and was pressured to do so by the success of MGS3 which was supposed to be the last game.  It's entirely plausible that he just winged it and considering the game was co-written (the first in the series directed by him) I can completely understand the pressure he must have been under.  If you read any of the spoilers for the upcoming game you'll realize how "convenient" a lot of the plot points are.  I mean

Man, Konami is now the new Square Enix and Kojima is now the corporate whore.  I love he goes on to say "I feel a responsibility to continue this series as long as users demand it" god damn what a jerk!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 07, 2008, 06:49:32 pm
I liked the "I'm not a genius like George Lucas" part.


That made me quit reading the article.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: fatty on June 07, 2008, 07:24:22 pm
I liked the "I'm not a genius like George Lucas" part.


That made me quit reading the article.
Haha me too.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: goat on June 08, 2008, 01:52:25 am
The funny thing is, is that thru a couple of retcons, all the loose ends fixed actually make sense.

How can you know this without playing the game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 08, 2008, 01:59:57 am
How can you know this without playing the game.

The entire game has been spoiled already.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: goat on June 08, 2008, 06:30:19 am
Which leads me to WHY would you want to know this without playing the game?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 08, 2008, 07:05:09 am
I got spoiled, and I like MGS so much I can't help but keep going and get spoiled.

I like MGS for the gameplay sooo it doesn't affect me any.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 08, 2008, 12:38:16 pm
Which leads me to WHY would you want to know this without playing the game?

Some people (like me) aren't affected by spoilers.  To me, a good story is all about the journey, not the destination.  I already know how MGS4 ends but that isn't going to stop me from playing the game and enjoying it...

...unless of course the game sucks!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ghost_Aspergers on June 08, 2008, 01:52:23 pm
Apparently he didn't plan out the story, and improvised. Who'd have thought? Since MGS4 ties up all the loose ends, it doesn't give me much confidence hearing about this...

The question is whether or not anyone is surprised.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 08, 2008, 05:58:29 pm
Some people (like me) aren't affected by spoilers.  To me, a good story is all about the journey, not the destination. 

I couldn't have put it in better fucking words.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 08, 2008, 06:02:31 pm
Some people (like me) aren't affected by spoilers.  To me, a good story is all about the journey, not the destination.  I already know how MGS4 ends but that isn't going to stop me from playing the game and enjoying it...

...unless of course the game sucks!
This is how it's for me too, pretty much. I can read spoilers and while I like being surprised during the game, it's not a game ruining experience for me. I don't really care too much, usually.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 08, 2008, 06:21:57 pm
everyone knows my feelings on this!

if anything I feel if a story can genuinely be ruined by a single plot twist it's probably no damn good anyways.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 08, 2008, 08:53:23 pm
the one thing that always bothered me about the metal gear series, beyond metal gear 1 for the PS1, is that konami is a really competent company and have a team that can actually make a good game. if you look at something like MGS2 (which this game reminds me a lot about, given all the ridiculous shit i have been hearing left and right), it's still a really well done game and fun. however i attribute basically none of this to kojima and pretty much think he is the luckiest guy in the world to have a budget and skilled team at his feet willing to do whatever shit he puts on paper.

kojima is living the rpg makers dream...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 08, 2008, 09:05:01 pm
dude that's uh

I know it's Psyburn but cut it out. I'M THE HARRY POTTER GUY and honestly if this was a 9/11 topic (there is one) and if it was in the title and if it even said PSYBURN: CLICK HERE and inside SNAKE IS ACTUALLY KOJIMA or whatever that's all kind of different (I'd think it was funny and cruel but at least funny would be there) butttttt don't post the spoilers in a place that has always had a defacto rule about spoilers!
ahahahaha are you kidding me

how is this ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL from you being a dick about harry potter spoilers


heh... its different because it's in another forum (hey wait you did this shit in general that's exactly as bad and you have no room to talk whatsoever???)


also i don't like reading spoilers because i kind of GET A KICK out of being surprised and i think if the plot twist is there, it's there to add to the experience and it can't do that if you see it coming!  it doesn't ruin the game for me or anything but it's not so much that ruining a single plot twist KILLS THE STORY so much as it has a negative impact on the overall experience.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Liman on June 08, 2008, 09:24:25 pm
I don't know if any of these posts concerning spoilers are because of what I did to Psyburn but to make things clear: The posts I made with spoilers were just made up to fool Psyburn. So if you read anything in here and thought "shit, I got spoiled", then you can live on in peace.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 08, 2008, 10:17:11 pm
ahahahaha are you kidding me

how is this ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL from you being a dick about harry potter spoilers


heh... its different because it's in another forum (hey wait you did this shit in general that's exactly as bad and you have no room to talk whatsoever???)


also i don't like reading spoilers because i kind of GET A KICK out of being surprised and i think if the plot twist is there, it's there to add to the experience and it can't do that if you see it coming!  it doesn't ruin the game for me or anything but it's not so much that ruining a single plot twist KILLS THE STORY so much as it has a negative impact on the overall experience.

I did it in post 9/11, not general, and yeah that does matter because it changes the context entirely!

also I find the spoiler/plot twist thing has so little impact at all on a story at this point in my life that if I genuinely feel the experience was affected by it in anything more than a remote disconnect it probably wasn't worth doing/listening/reading to.

I don't know if any of these posts concerning spoilers are because of what I did to Psyburn but to make things clear: The posts I made with spoilers were just made up to fool Psyburn. So if you read anything in here and thought "shit, I got spoiled", then you can live on in peace.
oh thats cool then.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 08, 2008, 10:38:17 pm
Quote
I did it in post 9/11, not general, and yeah that does matter because it changes the context entirely!
i don't think it does because the topic wasn't like ryan's HEY CHECK OUT THESE SPOILERS it was actually trying to spoil the book which is still as malicious as doing it in the vg forum!  it's not like people know going into the p9/11 that it might be filled with spoilers!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 09, 2008, 10:02:15 pm
they should nothing is safe in 9/11 NOTHING.

also not to justify but basically one of the SA forums that is their joke videogame forum did the same thing with MGS4 (stickied a thread saying X DIES) WHO WANTS FREE SPOILER PICS.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 09, 2008, 10:03:39 pm
also contextually there are maybe zero GW members who would do more than fume for a month over a Harry Potter spoiler but I seriously think Psyburn might slice his own throat if MGS4 gets completely spoiled, this is not a joke.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 09, 2008, 10:48:16 pm
ahaha i guess you got me there!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Roman on June 09, 2008, 11:06:42 pm
on the topic of spoilers, if anything they have made me more excited about this game, not because of the story necessarily but because there is so much fan service and im a huge faggot who loves fan service so yeah i can't wait.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fire Mage on June 09, 2008, 11:18:00 pm
i mean i've pretty much lost my interest in MGS4 and this made me lose more.

the whole clean fit together plot with all the cheap plot twists is just...wow. hahaha.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 11, 2008, 11:43:31 pm
hey so apparently this thing is out now (???) so who has this already and how does it seem??

normal people reviews plz.



marcus i know you have this and have played it through 4 times so lets hear it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Roman on June 12, 2008, 12:01:26 am
it comes out tomorrow i thought
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 12, 2008, 12:20:41 am
I actually saw a store here selling it two days ago but I don't have a PS3 so...

How bad is a 40GB PS3 if I don't care about compatibility?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 12:29:00 am
hey so apparently this thing is out now (???) so who has this already and how does it seem??

normal people reviews plz.



marcus i know you have this and have played it through 4 times so lets hear it.

Tomorrow and I'm thinking about calling in sick.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 12, 2008, 01:09:01 am
I actually saw a store here selling it two days ago but I don't have a PS3 so...

How bad is a 40GB PS3 if I don't care about compatibility?

Not bad at all, the only differences between the 40GB and the 80GB is the lack of BC, no memory card readers, and 2 USB ports instead of two, also the controller doesn't rumble.

But if your getting one for MGS4 I would just get the MGS4 bundle since the 40GB + MGS4 is $459.98+Tax and the 80GB Bundle with MGS4 and a Dualshock 3 for 499.99+tax.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 12, 2008, 01:12:25 am
wait they DONT let you have memory cards if you have a smaller ps3? that's kind of weird.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 12, 2008, 01:17:59 am
Not bad at all, the only differences between the 40GB and the 80GB is the lack of BC, no memory card readers, and 2 USB ports instead of two, also the controller doesn't rumble.

But if your getting one for MGS4 I would just get the MGS4 bundle since the 40GB + MGS4 is $459.98+Tax and the 80GB Bundle with MGS4 and a Dualshock 3 for 499.99+tax.
Thanks. That offer is only for USA though, and shipping something that heavy isn't an option for me. The European counterpart (which is what's officially offered where I live) is more expensive and is just a 40GB/sixaxis deal so it's not that good. (it's cheaper to get them separately)

Quote
wait they DONT let you have memory cards if you have a smaller ps3? that's kind of weird.
I think he's talking about those little flash cards for cameras and such. For game saves you just save to the hard disk.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 12, 2008, 01:20:53 am
Quote
Not bad at all, the only differences between the 40GB and the 80GB is the lack of BC, no memory card readers, and 2 USB ports instead of two, also the controller doesn't rumble.

But if your getting one for MGS4 I would just get the MGS4 bundle since the 40GB + MGS4 is $459.98+Tax and the 80GB Bundle with MGS4 and a Dualshock 3 for 499.99+tax.
Waaaaaaaaait? Are you sure about the rumble thing? I always thought sixaxis just doesn't have a rumble feature and Dual Shock 3 has rumble and it's coming out in Europe too. I wasn't aware it has anything to do with the 40GB version. Unless you mean that it comes with sixaxis.

also, 2 USB ports instead of two...? You mean four or?

I have always wondered how exactly do you use 7 controllers with PS3 anyway. D:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 12, 2008, 02:47:41 am
you know marcus

whenever something big like this comes out you do some kickass review on the vg board




....i'm looking forward to seeing that (pressure)


also i was originally planning to get a ps3(mgs4 bundle) this summer


but i'm not so sure i'll have such money to waste afterall

otherwise i'll probably get it by the end of my first semester in winter. the bundle might be over by then, but i'll just get a ps3+mgs4 then. ohhhhhh well.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 02:56:42 am
If you're serious about the PS3 (and since I'm spending 500$ on this thing I'M FUCKING SERIOUS) then get the 80gb.  Most games now require a 4-6gb install before playing and MGS4 supposedly has an install after every act.  That's almost 20gb right there.  The playstation store is also full of lots of cool games (and LittleBigPlanet and Spore will be using most of the harddrive for downloads) so if you want to download things in the future you'll need to clear up space. 

In America, the 80gb bundle is 500$ and it comes with a Dualshock 3 which has rumble features.  Konami is offering a limited edition gunmetal 40gb which is 600$.

Don't waste your money on the fucking gunmetal unless Kojima is signing it personally.

Seriously, what a waste.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: `~congresman Ron paul~~ on June 12, 2008, 04:49:48 am
So I went to Gamestop tonight at midnight with a friend who was going to pick up MGS4. I really just wanted to pick up Sins of a Solar Empire... which I am now torrenting. More on that in a minute.

Basically I feel profoundly embarassed for most of the people I saw in that Gamestop. While there was a couple normals who came in group there was an awful lot of chubby, socially inept, Samueltehg33k type individuals who I felt pained to even be in proximity around. I played MGS4 on one of the available consoles for about 25-30 minutes because everyone either 'didn't want any spoilers' (first level??) or was too awkward to put themselves in front other people watching.

example; i was playing and couldn't figure out how to use active camoflauge and this one really fat guy kept saying 'uh... uh... maybe... maybe the... uh?? i mean.. i don't know... uh... sorry... uh... okay... uh... i know how... uh... uh...'

I shot a guy in the head and like three people yelled BOOM HEADSHOT and i winced.

i died a loooot because i didn't really know the controls but okay. it seemed more like GEARS OF WAR than MGS from the sections I played mostly because it seems practically impossible to evade the massive amounts of PMC mercs without first narrowing their numbers through an extensive shootout. the environments don't lend themselves to evading particularly well (at least in the Middle East levels I played) mostly because there's no place to really... well... hide, unlike in previous metal gears. You can use active camo, but it's seen ridiculously easy and it's hard to sneak up on anyone to knife them without them hearing you first.

doesn't help that the equipment readouts are basically illegible on any tv that's not an HDTV. you need an HDTV to play this game. some of the text is too blurry to read at ALL otherwise.

idk it seems like a NICE ENOUGH GAME but i definitely wasn't feeling it when i played it; guess it has a steep learning curve.

also fuck gamestop. when i first went in i wanted to use the bathroom but they wouldn't let me because i 'could have stolen a copy of MGS4 while they weren't looking and leaked it' (nice call dipshits, it was being released in 20 minutes anyhow) and all i really went to do was get Sins of a Solar Empire but they were only selling MGS merchandise today. at all. they literally shut down the rest of the gamestop and cordoned it off with racks of used games. i asked the clerk if he could just go back and get it for me and he said 'no sorry it's MGS exclusive day'

so basically fuck gamestop and fuck people who show up at midnight game releases.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: `~congresman Ron paul~~ on June 12, 2008, 04:51:57 am
also i was reading the promotional booklet and god damn hideo is one creepy motherfucker when it comes to talking about those Beauty and the Beast Corps women. he talks so much about how 'lithe and beautiful' the models he used for them were and how he personally selected and interviewed them and idk it just really kind of creeped me out a little!

EDIT : man psyburn i could totally see you right in the middle of the crowd that was there.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 08:00:54 am
So, beating this game with no alerts, no rations used, no guards killed, and not dying on the hardest difficulty in under five hours unlocks as a character.  I know some Japs have probably already completed it 3 times by the time this message is posted.

I also saw some screenshots at 4chan and Snake can pick up Altair's costume.

EDIT: Oh man, Gametrailers gave MGS4 an 8.7 in the story and the entire forums are up in arms.  This is ridiculous.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 12, 2008, 11:04:57 am
Hahhahahahahahaha. Also that's a pretty awesome unlockable. And Kojima had already announced Altair's costume after he did the Assassin's Snake joke (I follow too many things)

Also, it seems obvious you wouldn't be able to enjoy any fucking game in that ambience, seriously. Playing on a big(or small?) screen next to a few hundred nerds.

Except maybe pong. Pong is cool. Though I'm sure they'd say BOOM HEADSHOT anyway.


EDIT: So from what I can see the biggest downsides are the cutscenes(too long or too boring depending(who didn't see that coming)) and the installs.
Hm.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 11:19:31 am
Man, the Gametrailers board is disgusting.  Moreso than GAMEFAQS!  Yes, that board is more ridiculous than Gamefaqs.  I'm arguing with these people and they're saying shit like they want to send GT anthrax and beat up all the "xbot" reviewers.

Holy fuck.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Rye Bread on June 12, 2008, 11:28:39 am
wait they DONT let you have memory cards if you have a smaller ps3? that's kind of weird.

He means the ports for PS2 Memory cards.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 12, 2008, 11:38:21 am
So, beating this game with no alerts, no rations used, no guards killed, and not dying on the hardest difficulty in under five hours unlocks as a character.  I know some Japs have probably already completed it 3 times by the time this message is posted.
oh boy i remember how I wasn't feeling like capturing the 50 frogs or whatever in mgs3 to unlock the stealth camo or something so the other option was to go through the game with no alerts, deaths, kills and something like that and I would play it for days and whenever I got spotted or broke one of the requirements I would throw myself down from a cliff or go diving in a mudpool to kill myself and then load up the game at a point where I had not broken any of the requirements.

Like most of the game it was pretty easy to go unseen but then there was those fucking Ocelot Unit ambushes that were a real bitch to go through.

But this one seems even more ridiculous since apparently the game has less places to hide and more guards.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 12, 2008, 11:46:13 am
me too man me too

but for that reward...i'lldop....anything. :/
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: `~congresman Ron paul~~ on June 12, 2008, 11:46:28 am
holy shit marcus that gametrailers board is almost as  bad as those NMA geeks talking about Fallout

edit : also what the hell that gametrailers review spoiled so many fucking plot points
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 12, 2008, 12:12:19 pm
I shouldn't have watched that fucking GameTrailers review. They should have at least warned of spoilers.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 12, 2008, 12:20:15 pm
uh

what plot points

pretty muich everything in it has been known for QUITE SOME TIME thanks to previews and stuff now, the only thing was the whole METAL GEAR REX THING which isn't even a plot point.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 12, 2008, 12:32:47 pm
uh

what plot points

pretty muich everything in it has been known for QUITE SOME TIME thanks to previews and stuff now, the only thing was the whole METAL GEAR REX THING which isn't even a plot point.
Guess you didn't notice the Raiden part.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 12, 2008, 12:34:01 pm
Guess you didn't notice the Raiden part.

uh? they've shown Raiden for the longest time now. He's been in pretty much every preview. sooo ????
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 12:39:01 pm
Guess you didn't notice the Raiden part.

You mean Raiden stabbing himself?  That was in like... the second official trailer which came out in 2006.

I'm back with the game, managed to play it for 30 minutes (skipped all the fucking cutscenes) but I've got to go to work soon.  Quick opinion, the game is basically Metal Gears of War.  There, I said it.  The stealth and action are about as akin to MGS as GRAW is to the original Ghost Recon.  Stealth is still "kinda" important but with the addition of over-the-shoulder (I.E. Resident Evil 4 controls + strafe) aiming and tons more aggressive guards, the game is mostly a run and gun action game with some sneaking involved to set up ambushes and stuff.

But honestly, it's not a bad thing.  At least, not as far as I'm concerned.  The controls are wonkier than GTA4's but to me, Metal Gear has had way too many fights to incorporate the lame control schemes it had in previous games.  It's nice to actually be able to dive for cover and properly shoot enemies without going into first person view then immediately switching out.

Full scathing review later.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 12, 2008, 12:42:20 pm
Ah, okay then. Sorry. I haven't been catching up with the previews since the first gameplay video came out. So nevermind.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 12, 2008, 12:50:22 pm
Quote
I'm back with the game, managed to play it for 30 minutes (skipped all the fucking cutscenes) but I've got to go to work soon.  Quick opinion, the game is basically Metal Gears of War.  There, I said it.  The stealth and action are about as akin to MGS as GRAW is to the original Ghost Recon.  Stealth is still "kinda" important but with the addition of over-the-shoulder (I.E. Resident Evil 4 controls + strafe) aiming and tons more aggressive guards, the game is mostly a run and gun action game with some sneaking involved to set up ambushes and stuff.

The Middle East part is way more fighting than stealth iirc.

EDIT:
Also it only has a 4.6GB install size, abm.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 12, 2008, 03:01:09 pm
I enjoy the pseudo stealth.  Reminds me of the latest Splinter Cell although the game feels like Resident Evil 4.

Take it for what you will but Drebin is basically the merchant except he has a personality and a pet monkey.  As far as the install goes, it's 4.6gb all around but the game installs itself after every act so if you want to reload a different act you have to spend 10 minutes watching Snake drag on his cig.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 12, 2008, 04:06:02 pm
Waaaaaaaaait? Are you sure about the rumble thing? I always thought sixaxis just doesn't have a rumble feature and Dual Shock 3 has rumble and it's coming out in Europe too. I wasn't aware it has anything to do with the 40GB version. Unless you mean that it comes with sixaxis.

also, 2 USB ports instead of two...? You mean four or?

I have always wondered how exactly do you use 7 controllers with PS3 anyway. D:

What I ment buy the rumble thing is that in the US the 40GB comes with a Sixaxis which has no rumble and the 80 comes with a DS3 which does.

And yeah two instead of four. And also there are some games like that support all 7 players but theyre sports games.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 12, 2008, 07:36:20 pm
Oh by the way, MGO does come with the game, doesn't it?

...doesn't it?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 12, 2008, 08:01:53 pm
Oh by the way, MGO does come with the game, doesn't it?

...doesn't it?

Yeah its there.  They were originally gonna make it separate... which would've been stupid.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 12, 2008, 08:06:51 pm
Why has nobody even said a word about it? It deserves some spotlight.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 12, 2008, 08:19:09 pm
Great. I got the game but no console D:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 12, 2008, 08:21:49 pm
...Why did you do that?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 12, 2008, 09:01:18 pm
I got a signed copy of the game and the limited edition. Just played 3 hours straight, greatest game I've played in a very very long time. Seriously this shit is da BOMB christ.

EDIT:
Man that title screen alone is HOLY SHIT.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 12, 2008, 09:46:16 pm
I think the gameplay (like hitting triangle to wallhug etc.) could be a bit more precise but other than that, I don't really have any other complaints. It's a bit funny how someone mentions something and then Snake goes "The Patriots??" and I have no clue what the fuck is going on and then there's this la li lu le lo shit or whatever and FUCK YOU MGS. Maybe one day I'll actually replay the first two MGS games and finish third one. But anyway, it's pretty great so far and the graphics are fantastic and the game actually feels like a real war zone and there are tons of stuff happening on the screen and the effects are very nice. Cutscenes are just as good as you'd expect them to be. I'm also loving the music.

I agree with Marcus about the whole pseudo-stealth thing, it's pretty refreshing too. I think at first the game feels pretty overwhelming because you are thrown in middle of some highly interactive game world and introduced to a lot of gameplay elements and I seriously couldn't tell what the hell was going on and just kept shooting everything what moved or trying to avoid combat.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Dead Phoenix on June 13, 2008, 12:08:59 am
I enjoy the pseudo stealth.  Reminds me of the latest Splinter Cell although the game feels like Resident Evil 4.

Take it for what you will but Drebin is basically the merchant except he has a personality and a pet monkey.  As far as the install goes, it's 4.6gb all around but the game installs itself after every act so if you want to reload a different act you have to spend 10 minutes watching Snake drag on his cig.
I want a little clarification on the install. Does it install 4.6 gigs for every install or is each act just a portion of that, like 1.2 gigs for the first one and another 1.2 gigs once you get to the next act(and the game deletes the first act install as well?)?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: zachiroth on June 13, 2008, 12:27:53 am
Best.  Game.  Ever.

10/10
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 13, 2008, 01:21:25 am
I want a little clarification on the install. Does it install 4.6 gigs for every install or is each act just a portion of that, like 1.2 gigs for the first one and another 1.2 gigs once you get to the next act(and the game deletes the first act install as well?)?

4.6 total.

yes 1.2 gigs per act roughly.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: theHunter on June 13, 2008, 01:48:55 am
Why has nobody even said a word about it? It deserves some spotlight.

IGN Mentions it... and yeah they gave it a 10.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/881/881472p5.html
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Warlin on June 13, 2008, 05:02:51 am
I just got MGS4 today... at 6:15 AM. In any case, I popped it in today and... my god. There are alot of overhyped games but MGS4 is everything I had hoped it would be. Well the story is kinda weird, but interesting. I've already spent an hour just dicking off.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 13, 2008, 05:17:42 am
Well, I'm probably almost done with act 3 and some more opinions:

Okay, the story makes sense and there have been some okay twists but seriously, it does feel a bit forced which is a shame. It sucks that they are bringing back pretty much every possible character and that's the main reason why the story can seem a bit too much to swallow, even though they have done a pretty good job at tieing many of the loose ends. For example, when

Also, it's not just act one, MGS4 has much larger focus on action than any other game in the series. I'm sure you can beat the game by sneaking around but everything from the environments to the action oriented controls make it play like an action game with some stealth elements. That isn't a bad thing though, because it's one great action game, but if you are expecting another game very similar to MGS1 or 2, you might be disappointed. I kinda miss Shadow Moses and Big Shell and I would have loved to see another place like those two, but MGS4's gameplay is easily the best in the series and I loved the first two acts so I'm not really disappointed or anything.

Too early to say if this is the best MGS for me but I can definitely see why people would say that.

Also, Laughing Octopus or w/e was a great boss fight.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 13, 2008, 05:21:43 am
Quote
I kinda miss Shadow Moses and Big Shell and I would have loved to see another place like those two, but MGS4's gameplay is easily the best in the series and I loved the first two scenarios.

Not much of a big spoiler DS but heh...

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 13, 2008, 05:27:44 am
Not much of a big spoiler DS but heh...


Yeah, I already know, and it's going to be cool I hope.

Also, one thing I am really wondering (act 3 spoiler):

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 13, 2008, 05:41:04 am
Quote

Not really.

She was used as the genetic holder of the L.E.T. project, so...

Big Boss
Big Mama (cause she's technically their mom)

u c?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: hima on June 13, 2008, 05:48:54 am
Holy shit,  so there's Big Mama? I personally decide not to follow any news of this game because I want to save my money for some game engine and programming books but handsome_lamb you just make me want to spend all my money for PS3.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 13, 2008, 05:55:15 am
Holy shit,  so there's Big Mama? I personally decide not to follow any news of this game because I want to save my money for some game engine and programming books but handsome_lamb you just make me want to spend all my money for PS3.

Ya it was sorta explained in MGS3, but EVA = big mama. ;)
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 13, 2008, 05:56:59 am
I know the reasoning behind it but I just think it sounds so silly and stupid. :(

ALSO NO ANSWERS TO THE REAL QUESTION??

for now i call a plothole.............
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 13, 2008, 06:00:37 am
figure it out yourself big guy. . . ...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Shadow Kirby on June 13, 2008, 06:58:56 am
In about how much time will I be able to watch the entire movie game on Youtube?
With university coming up I can't afford a PS3 but I'm still kinda curious on how this MGS saga is ending.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 13, 2008, 08:56:41 am
There's already a lot of the scenes in there, no codec calls or anything though so I don't know, maybe in a few weeks I'd guess.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 13, 2008, 02:00:51 pm
Quote
It's a bit funny how someone mentions something and then Snake goes "The Patriots??" and I have no clue what the fuck is going on and then there's this la li lu le lo shit or whatever and FUCK YOU MGS.

To clear this up for you, The Patriots control the flow of information (still) which was the whole point by MGS2.  Because they're a secret organization, NO ONE knows they exist except for a select few.  Raiden, Snake, Otacon, Ocelot etc. can say their name but whenever it's mentioned to someone outside the inner circle it immediately becomes La Li Lu Le Lo.

Imagine speaking a foreign language to someone.  You know what you're saying but they have no idea and it comes out as gibberish instead.  Whenever someone mentions the patriots, it literally becomes gibberish.  It was kind of a "Holy crap, that's a really well executed thing" in MGS2 and I smiled a bit when it when Meryl's like "WTF R U TALKING 'BOUT SNAKE?"
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 13, 2008, 02:09:41 pm
To clear this up for you, The Patriots control the flow of information (still) which was the whole point by MGS2.  Because they're a secret organization, NO ONE knows they exist except for a select few.  Raiden, Snake, Otacon, Ocelot etc. can say their name but whenever it's mentioned to someone outside the inner circle it immediately becomes La Li Lu Le Lo.

Imagine speaking a foreign language to someone.  You know what you're saying but they have no idea and it comes out as gibberish instead.  Whenever someone mentions the patriots, it literally becomes gibberish.  It was kind of a "Holy crap, that's a really well executed thing" in MGS2 and I smiled a bit when it when Meryl's like "WTF R U TALKING 'BOUT SNAKE?"
Yeah, the whole thing about The Patriots becomes obviously very clear during MGS4 but I didn't know that was the thing behind La Li Lu Le Lo. That's pretty cool.

Also, I'm in act 4 now, this game is pretty short and like 90% cutscenes.

EDIT:

Quote
4.6 total.

yes 1.2 gigs per act roughly.
Uh, I just beat act 4 and there's act 5 so this can't be true. D:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 13, 2008, 08:10:13 pm
I'm not that far into the game, but damn, it's so great. Everything's perfect.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: hero_bash on June 13, 2008, 08:16:57 pm
the final scenes are really long..
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: MonkeyMan87 on June 13, 2008, 09:17:16 pm
I am so tempted to look at everyone's spoiler markers but I really don't want to. Am only on Act 2, the battle against was disturbing as hell! But haven't finished Act 2 yet have just seen

I think this is by far the best one although there isn't all that much stealth. I tend to use FPS mode a lot though as it's more accurate. Can anyone tell me if you see any more of those live-action advertisements like at the beginning for Praying Mantis and all that?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Roman on June 13, 2008, 09:26:46 pm
Gamespot gave it a 10. (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/review.html)  Holy shit I want to play this game so bad. :(
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 13, 2008, 09:47:24 pm
Alot of places gave it a 10. This is Japan's take on GTA4's score, I guess.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Roman on June 13, 2008, 10:49:28 pm
Alot of places gave it a 10. This is Japan's take on GTA4's score, I guess.

Normally I don't think it's a big deal when a game gets a 10, but this is only Gamespot's 5th ten so I think that's pretty noteworthy.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 13, 2008, 11:04:13 pm
yeah but to be honest, i think with games like this and gta or whatever else, they're more inclined to give them tens than if it were just some random game they reviewed.  it seems like the games that get tens are usually pretty much only these types.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 13, 2008, 11:07:00 pm
If the game didn't get a 10 then the Gamespot forums would explode with spam and every member would probably threaten to kill the entire staff like at Gametrailers.

Let's all add each other to the friend's list.  My name is Jumbrie.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 14, 2008, 12:18:11 am
So I'm pretty interested in how they wrapped all the things up and since I will never (in the next 5 years) have a ps3 nor this game I've been checking it out on various sites like youtube and such.

Judging entirely by the clips I've watched I think the ending was really dumb. WARNING 1 KILOMETER OF SPOILARS
Besides that though I really haven't seen anything overly stupid, it seems to have a lot of fanservice though and a million references to the previous titles.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 14, 2008, 12:26:11 am
this game is ridiculous as hell. i have no idea how people think the story in this is any good at all, unless you consider the fact it wraps up a lot of loose ends (haven't finished, but a lot of stuff so far is revealed). that isn't really a reason to say good story though, because so far everything is just as ridiculous as before. the dialog is really bad in a lot of parts, and so many of the cinemas are incredibly pointless. the only thing this game has going for it in terms of story is high production values because the cinemas (while completely retarded most of the time) and voice acting is well done. the game is good, but good lord the story is just terrible.

p.s. WAR ECONOMY.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 14, 2008, 12:39:31 am
yea it does seem like the focus is on wrapping up all teh loose ends and killing off as many characters as possible to avoid making more loose ends.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 12:44:37 am
Quote
Besides that though I really haven't seen anything overly stupid, it seems to have a lot of fanservice though and a million references to the previous titles.

Every time you encounter characters from the past you can have flashbacks complete with bad ps1 graphics.

Also Johnny... man, Johnny.  This game probably has the most realistic ASS CHEEKS I've ever seen as well as the greatest shit texture.  It's not like a single flat texture either, there's actually multiple layers to it creating a realistic shit stain.  It's as if Kojima took a picture of someone shitting themselves several times and made it as high res as possible.  You can actually see the individual chunks of shit staining his pants and the dude's ass probably has more polygons than Naked Snake's entire character model in MGS3.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 14, 2008, 01:48:39 am
so my friend got this and so far i've played up until

so far i really like it, but i agree with DS that when Raiden codecs you for the first time he's totally out of character. i mean

it's different than the other MGS games, much more action-oriented. the controls also take some getting used to, one of the reasons why i found the first area kind of difficult actually!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 01:54:06 am
Why haven't you guys been sending friend requests you sons a bitches!?!?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 14, 2008, 02:19:40 am
I beat the game earlier today, took like 20 hours but I'd say 70% of that was cutscenes. Not sure what's the actual length though because I left the game open a few times while I was doing something else and I didn't really play around much so it could be more or less for other players. One thing though, I definitely suggest playing the game on hard difficulty because normal was just way too easy.

Without really spoiling the story, I do think it gets better after the first two acts. At first the game keeps introducing all these old characters and the plot doesn't really progress all that much and it's kind of setting the scene for rest of the game, explaining some stuff you need to know to understand rest of the story and just introducing you to the new Snake and naturally there are some important story segments too. GZ is kinda right that it feels like there are some pointless cinemas and the pacing could seriously be better (this has been problem with all the MGS games though, nothing new here) and it's filled with the usual MGS gibberish but that didn't really bother me too much, to be honest. The cinemas are pretty much the best in the whole videogame industry and coupled with the amazing visuals and really strong voice acting and soundtrack, it's a great experience even though some cutscenes are a bit too long, even for me. There are some big twists but what's different about MGS4, compared to other games in the series, is that it doesn't really have some new shocking plot twist in every second cutscene and the story itself could even be a bit boring if you haven't played earlier games because seriously, it really does focus on wrapping up pretty much all the unresolved issues. So it follows a more logical path (logical for a MGS game, anyway) instead of trying to rely on woahing the player over and over again. I think MGS fans are going to love it but it might not appeal that much to other people. Despite its shortcomings (pacing, too much fanservice in first half of the game, some completely ridiculous cutscenes), I liked the story a lot and it did get much better in second half of the game, at least for me. I suppose I just enjoyed understanding the story for once and I just loved how Snake's character was handled from the beginning to the end. I also appreciated some of the running gags, especially the Mantis one.

After beating the game, I think it probably is my favorite Metal Gear game afterall. Act 4 had much more sneaking around and like I already mentioned, the story got more interesting too. The gameplay is easily best in the series and even though it's more action-oriented, you can still just stealth for the whole game if that's how you decide to play it, and there are definitely different ways to play through the game and I think it can make the game feel clearly different. Though even so, given the new enemy types and vehichle sequences, it's still definitely more action-oriented, no matter how you play it. Another thing worth praising are the boss fights. The only boss fight I didn't like that much was Raging Raven or whatever that flying beast was called, all the other ones rocked. The gameplay was just awesome, and I wish there was more areas like the one in act 4 and just... more playable content. But even so, I think the game felt complete so I'm not really complaining.

I was really looking forward to MGS4 and I wasn't disappointed. On the other hand, I was kind of expecting something different, or something more, and I can't really tell why. I feel like I'm satisfied but at the same time something is missing. I wasn't completely happy with everything and like every game, MGS4 has its flaws but seriously, I can completely understand why this game would get a 10. Some people might be disappointed in some of the decisions Kojima made, like it having more action-oriented gameplay or multiple, mostly linear locations or that the story focuses on unanswered questions from other MGS titles, but overall, given the amount of variety the game offers in terms of gameplay, the amazing visuals and audio and how polished everything is, it's a nearly perfect for what it tries to be, it's just that you either like it or then you don't.

another one of my tired 5:30am posts

EDIT: Oh ya, a few things to those who have beaten the game:

1.

2.

3.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 14, 2008, 03:09:41 am
jesus christ 70%

that's pretty ridiculous!  having a game take SO LONG TO MAKE and then having it just be 5 hours of gameplay is crazy!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:19:52 am
But man, the cinemas and the story and the plot and the writing duuuuuuude it's like an interactive movie GAMETRAILERS SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT AN 8.7 FOR STORY UUUUURGH
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 14, 2008, 03:20:30 am
jesus christ 70%

that's pretty ridiculous!  having a game take SO LONG TO MAKE and then having it just be 5 hours of gameplay is crazy!
Yeah I'm kinda pissed, but weren't all the more recent Metal Gear games kinda short? Not just that but most of the "current-gen" games have been quite short.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:31:03 am
MGS3 took me 26 hours on normal and the cinematics weren't nearly as long or frequent.  About 2 hours of that time was spent fighting The End but still, that game had a lot of huge maps in it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 14, 2008, 03:31:13 am
one other thing to note about the gameplay, it's all around really solid and they do mix things up so you aren't always doing the same thing, but they actually managed to drown out their own gameplay by not having enough of it or not utilizing it. for instance so far i have never ever needed to drag a dead body to hide it, but this was actually a big thing in MGS2. also they really lean towards action and pretty much kills the whole stealth side of the game. it's a shame, because they have a really solid system that they aren't using very much at all.

it's kind of like they kept building on the gameplay elements on all the metal gears, and you have a lot of actions you can perform, but you realistically it's mostly SHOOT GUNS KILL PEOPLE. it seems much more focus was put on making ridiculous cinemas and other bullshit than the game itself.

Quote
But man, the cinemas and the story and the plot and the writing duuuuuuude it's like an interactive movie GAMETRAILERS SHOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT AN 8.7 FOR STORY UUUUURGH
i don't know if this is serious or not! in any case i am just going to state again the story is garbage. if some of this dialog was actually on paper and not said by SOLID SNAKE there is some y2dazz shit going on at moments. look at the characters for fuck sake. big mama is what, 50+ and she has CLEAVAGE? same with naomi, she's some HIGH TECH scientist but she has the exact same cleavage bullshit. you can't take anyone seriously in this game because of what the characters do, or did. i am taking METAL GEAR SOLID awfully serious here, but i am absolutely stunned how people can think this is great in any capacity (story). it's completely ridiculous man. things like the raiden killing 90 geckos cinema, what's the point of this? him fighting vamp

cinemas are well done in terms of quality, but there is no substance. it's just empty GARGRHDG GOKU SLO-MO FLASHBACK. same with the voice acting, it's good, but horrible dialog. i would go as far as saying some of this stuff is insulting at how bad it is. i would not even give something like this an average rating. this is one of the worst ways to tell a story (multiple 30+ minute cinemas) and the story itself is just complete garbage.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:35:19 am
I was arguing with the guys on gametrailers about that very fact but people (as in people who haven't played the game) were saying it's metal gear solid thus it deserves a high rating in the story department or something.

But the series in general has always had problems with pacing and flashy effects.  For every cinematic that actually advances the story or is well written there's another cinematic that makes you roll your eyes into the back of your head and sigh loudly. 

DO YOU THINK IT'S THE PATRIOTS???????

EDIT: I was also arguing about how Snake is such a massive pussy.  Almost every major enemy openly announces themselves with an innane monologue and Snake is in a prime position to blow their heads off.  Good example is when he spots Liquid hanging out on a balcony but he's armed with a fucking pistol DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE HAS THREE SNIPER RIFLES AND A ROCKET LAUNCHER IN HIS BACKPACK.  What was this shit?  As soon as I'd spot my archnemesis I would've whipped out my bullpup and popped a bullet in his brain from a mile away, not pull out a dinky pistol and slowly advance gun drawn.

And Snake does this all the time.  It's like he wants to listen to people talk.  We already know that "Thing are not as they seem" and he's being controlled by outside forces but god damn, grow some balls Snake.  As soon as Raven or Psycho Mantis pops up in view I would've dropped grenades at their feet or something.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 14, 2008, 03:38:15 am
Yeah I'm kinda pissed, but weren't all the more recent Metal Gear games kinda short? Not just that but most of the "current-gen" games have been quite short.
Yeah I think I beat MGS2 in like 15 hours, but that was on easy, and I think 12-13 of those 15 hours were actual gameplay, so having MGS4 be longer and yet somehow have DRASTICALLY LESS gameplay (seriously I thought the 90-minute cutscene thing was all just hyperbole; I can't believe there's really only 4-5 hours of gameplay) is still a pretty big departure.  Although with that said, I never played MGS3, so idk maybe it had a substantially more cutscenes than gameplay, too.  I feel like the original MGS was a decently long game, but I also remember there being a ludicrous amount of cutscenes in it, too (once when I was fourteen, I figured I wanted to know the story but didn't feel like playing through the game, so watching the cutscenes would be a short fix aaaaaand two hours later with no end in sight I gave up on that idea), so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by much of this.  Still, 3/4 of a game being cutscenes is pretty drastic!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:41:10 am
3/4 is an exaggeration but it took me 2 and a half hours to get through the first two acts (taking my time and replaying scenes that I liked) so in total the game is probably 8-10 hours for the average player which is still pretty short for a 60-80 dollar game with 90 minute cutscenes.

But atleast their's MGO.  I'm thinking of playing some matches tonight.

The game will also have downloadable content and Konami announced they'll be using it for a wide range of things including new podcasts, music, weapons, maps for multiplayer, and even VR Mission esque mini-games so hopefully the game will be artificially lengthened as time goes on.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 14, 2008, 03:42:07 am
Wait, you mean 8-10 hours total, or just the gameplay with the cutscenes adding another ~10 hours?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Shadow Kirby on June 14, 2008, 03:42:43 am
I watched the ending and yeah....... that and the rest of the game must tie up a few loose ends but damn is the ending unnecessarily long.


MGS makes me think of the Megaman series. The NES era did not have the space for major plot twist. For Megaman it was "OMG Willy is an alien..... oh wait he ain't" and for MG it was "OMG the guy called Big Boss is the Big Boss". But the PS came around and now you need 10 pages of plot synopsis to get it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:43:36 am
Wait, you mean 8-10 hours total, or just the gameplay with the cutscenes adding another ~10 hours?

Yeah 8-10 hours of gameplay total on top of some 8 hours of cinema.

If I didn't plan on playing multiplayer and downloading new content, I'd feel ripped off.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 14, 2008, 03:44:20 am
DO YOU THINK IT'S THE PATRIOTS???????
i don't know if you are this far but (about an hour after raging raven i guess):



about cutscenes / cinemas / NOT PLAYING GAME, in order of most to least this is it from my experience:

MGS4, MGS2, MGS3, MGS1
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:47:56 am
i don't know if you are this far but (about an hour after raging raven i guess):



about cutscenes / cinemas / NOT PLAYING GAME, in order of most to least this is it from my experience:

MGS4, MGS2, MGS3, MGS1

I dunno, I just figure that to Snake, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.  He just wants to kill Liquid so whatever else happens is of no concern.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 14, 2008, 03:50:53 am
for the record i have no idea why 90% of the characters bother doing anything. the whole situation they have laid out with constant warring, i have no idea why anyone has motivations to do anything, given most motivations people have are KILL PEOPLE FOR MONEY. someone like snake especially, he's always been a tool it turns out in the end and virtually everyone else, they are better off just sitting in a chair doing nothing.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 03:54:25 am
I was thinking the same thing.  I guess Snake's motivation for continuing is that he has a year left to live so fuck it, go out with a bang but I have no idea why these other characters are popping up and fighting.  I guess in this future fighting in wars is the new football or something.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 14, 2008, 04:00:35 am
This story is probably one of the most retarded, I agree.

But I enjoy it, somehow part of me can't hate retarded stories. From all the spoilers I've seen (haven't played the game yet and won't in a while), I found myself enjoying them because inside I'm a stupid retarded fanboy.
That's kind of an exaggeration but yeah, I'm a sucker for shit. Oh man that sounds so wrong.



And I thought a major plot point of the series is that the main character (Naked most likely, but Solid to an extent too) couldn't enjoy life unless he was blowing brains out.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Shadow Kirby on June 14, 2008, 04:27:04 am
And I thought a major plot point of the series is that the main character (Naked most likely, but Solid to an extent too) couldn't enjoy life unless he was blowing brains out.

Solid was made to be a soldier so of course that this is the only thing he ever came back to. So yeah, one major theme through the series as an whole is "A soldier can only exist if there is a war". With the war over the only thing those two men (Naked, Solid and in retrospect the Boss) had left to do is die.

Makes me think of the full ending of Halo 3 which was the deepest plot point of the entire franchise maybe:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 14, 2008, 04:47:46 am
Yeah 8-10 hours of gameplay total on top of some 8 hours of cinema.

If I didn't plan on playing multiplayer and downloading new content, I'd feel ripped off.
fhdfhdj marcus we just had this argument like three months ago and you were like HEH I DONT SEE THE PROBLEM WITH $60 GAMES BEING EXCEEDINGLY SHORT i'd rather have a good short one than a boring long one....


why do you do this to me??  you acted like i was being unreasonable when i said a ~10 hour game costing $65 with tax was kind of a ripoff!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 05:02:10 am
Because I spent 90$ on MGS4 so I feel even more ripped off than Uncharted.

Besides, Uncharted was mostly gameplay so it didn't feel like buying a 15 hour long movie with 3 hours of playable segments.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 14, 2008, 05:08:42 am
is any of the bonus content worthwhile (in the collectors)? i got the regular edition and got some metal gear saga dvd with it free because of some promotion, what does the collectors edition have? i've mostly gathered these days collectors editions are an easy way to get more money by providing a terrible bonus dvd or something to this effect.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 14, 2008, 05:10:25 am
i loled a few times

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 14, 2008, 05:22:47 am
1.



Quote
2.



Quote
3.

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2008, 05:25:20 am
is any of the bonus content worthwhile (in the collectors)? i got the regular edition and got some metal gear saga dvd with it free because of some promotion, what does the collectors edition have? i've mostly gathered these days collectors editions are an easy way to get more money by providing a terrible bonus dvd or something to this effect.

Hey what do you know!  The special edition comes with a BLU-RAY (not dvd god you suck i hate your guts) of a "making of" documentary and "behind the scenes" (where did this buzzword come from?  BEHIND THE SCENES) footage of game studio.  It also comes with a soundtrack which is really good.

Really, collector's editions are only for the hardcore fans or people who look at these things as an investment 20 years down the road.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 14, 2008, 05:47:14 pm
The most epic piece of final battle I've ever seen. HOLY SHIT.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: fatty on June 14, 2008, 05:55:54 pm
big mama is what, 50+ and she has CLEAVAGE?

She is more likely to be 70+.

EDIT:
Quote from: from The Metal Gear Wiki
"In 2014, EVA, now an elderly woman at the age of 78, contacted Solid Snake during his mission to terminate Liquid Snake. She went under the codename "Big Mama"."
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 14, 2008, 06:37:37 pm
Speaking of the whole gameplay/cutscenes ratio, I'd say MGS4's ratio is about the same as MGS2's was. There are some longer cutscenes but there's more playable content too, for sure.

I started replaying the game without watching all the cutscenes and first act took me two hours to finish without killing anyone and sneaking around, though I was discovered a few times. I think playing the game is more fun now than it was on the first time because I'm used to the gameplay mechanics and not confused as fuck. Sneaking around is a lot of fun and of course it's great to play the game differently since last time I just pretty much killed everyone and kept rushing forward.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 14, 2008, 08:53:43 pm
I finished it about five hours ago, but I'm still damn psyched about it. Such an awesome game. Act 4 is easily the best level in the entire history of gaming ever.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 14, 2008, 11:12:15 pm
I just beat it. I have mixed feelings about it.

The gameplay is really good, I especially loved the early acts, it was a nice change from the usual fare. The addition of Drebin's shop made killing enemies fun, and customizing weapons was a nice touch too. Technically, this is the ultimate Metal Gear game. The gameplay-to-cutscene ratio was also better in the first few acts, it's kinda nice how this game favors cutscenes to codec calls, compared to MGS2 and 3. The gameplay keeps changing throughout the game, and it prevents it from getting boring ()

Now for the story... uh... I'll admit I'm a fan of the series, and that I love how ridiculous/bad-written/weird/convoluted the plot is in every game. I'm aware it's bad, but it's also funny, it's probably the high quality of the whole thing, and the little things Kojima likes to throw it. This game... it was too much at times. It's like some bad fanfiction trying hard to tie all the loose ends while throwing in every single character in the series for fanservice. The story is just an extension, other games could be played on their own, but this one depends too much on the other games. The part after the voice actors credits was really bad, it's just the worst way that scene could've been handled, and I hated how

With that said, the story has its highlights too. I enjoyed the action scenes, and the interactivity in some of them. The bosses were interesting too, not so much for their back stories (at least they have stories, unlike the ones in MGS3), but because of the neat ideas the battles had. I guess it's what you'd expect from the series after all.

I played some online games and I thought they were fun. I only played death match and sneaking mission, but I liked how well the new game mechanics are extended online. I haven't played the online expansion of MGS3 after all.

Overall it was a very good game. The story was really ridiculous (even for metal gear solid games), some of the cutscenes were too awkward and boring, and the whole nostalgia/fanservice thing was overdone. But it still had great gameplay, graphics, music, and atmosphere. I don't regret getting a PS3 for it, but I'd have really liked the game to be longer (I beat it in 20 hours, half of which are probably cutscenes). It would've nice if they had a battlefield part somewhere in the later acts (maybe in ?), both to extend gameplay and to balance the amount of cutscenes.

In retrospect, MGS1 is still the best game in the series. I'm not sure which is the next best game though, they all had their ups and downs; I guess MGS4 would be at the top when ranked by gameplay, and at the bottom when ranked by story.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ax_Dude on June 15, 2008, 01:27:12 am
This game has the most Cinematic Feel to a game i've ever experianced.
It was fantastic.
Saying that the storyline was abit WTF in places.
The main two gripes i had was that Liquid Snake was FUCKING RIPPED for an old guy, and that big mamma... Well im just going to say Big Mamma and leave it at that

I thought Drebin's Introduction was a bit of hit and miss. I didn't really mind his addition but maybe they should've put a delay on the recieving of the items, Like you place an order and the MK.II dissapears for a while, Then after a few minutes it shows up with the stuff.
It just occured to me i never used the MK.II at all during the game....

The BOSS Fights were fantastic.
Laughing octopus must've been my favorite.
I loved the ENTIRE act that crying wolf was in, That would be my favorite act. I was running around with Face Camo on and it all felt very Lost Planety.
Raging Raven i was dressed in the civi Costume and used the double shot. I loved that Chapter too it felt like an Old Noir Detective Movie. Trailing the dude, Avoiding guards and patrols. Fighting a winged beast in a tower.

Heh i remember back in the day when i was making a metal gear fan game with that guy Naked Snake. And i was talking about metal gear Vs Metal Gear Combat. And i proposed that snake should get his hands on a metalgear and pilot it against the newest model. And some guy on the forum said "No thats just stupid thats just fanboyish shit" well... FUCK YOU BUDDY!

I need to get a hub to hook up my PS3, Then i will give multiplayer a go.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Warlin on June 15, 2008, 03:47:16 am
Yeah, the story was a wee-bit akward at some points and there were some soap-operaish moments, but overall it was amazing. Tranq'd every boss, but I mean really, who didn't right?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ax_Dude on June 15, 2008, 03:58:09 am
Yeah, the story was a wee-bit akward at some points and there were some soap-operaish moments, but overall it was amazing. Tranq'd every boss, but I mean really, who didn't right?
I tranq'd both versions and found out later that you get statues for tranqing the beast.
Didn't Tranq mantis's though, Could not figure out how.

As for Metal Gear Online.
Im Having a blast. The Automaticing is useful it matches you with people around your skill.
I started off last on the list and after afew games was in the top 3. So it worked out nicely and has a pretty easy learning curve if you've played through solo. Although i think you have to spend money to buy more equipment, I dont know. how it works.
I'd like to get the FiveSeven though, As i use mostly Pistols and CQC
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 15, 2008, 04:03:59 am
I liked MGO on Subsistence. Though, it wasn't all that great really. Anybody played the MGS3 MGO before and can compare it with MGS4's for me?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 15, 2008, 04:11:38 am
The problem with MGS3's MGO was mainly the controls not transitioning well from single to multilayer. Naturally MGS4 has much more improved controls which compliment the frantic style of the multi player.

But that's just me, alot of people seem to enjoy the original MPO, but I hated it. The only way I could kill was using auto aim, and even, then if you got tangled with someone else life or death is dependent on your health and ammo count. Also the whole crouch, stand thing was a total mess.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 15, 2008, 04:30:25 am
Yeah, like I said it wasn't all that great. Everybody used autoaim, there was no other way to succeed really. As for coming face to face, a quick stab to the foot was insta-kill....
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: TrickLobster on June 15, 2008, 05:26:21 am
Im still on the second act but this game is fantastic. I love the way the cut scenes are handled even though the story so far is a tad over the top. I dont mind the overly long sequences because I really enjoy the sickness of the graphics and the quality voice acting. So far I am not playing this game as a Metal Gear game but I'm not saying that as a bad thing, so far Im playing it as Metal Gear Rambo since I had around 233 kills in the first act and I'm not so far behind on the second act. Also, I didnt know you were suppose to tranq the bosses so Laughing Octopus is currently dead forever. Eh well. Ill probably try tranqing the rest of them or maybe just killing them and then just replay the game in tranq mode.

I also like how you can customize the weapons (aka furthering the Rambo aspect) like adding a silencer, shotgun, and handler thing on the m4. It's banging and this is my favorite MGS game out of all of them. I have yet to try out the online but I'll probably hit that up after I beat the game. Sick game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Eltee on June 15, 2008, 06:59:00 am
tranq'ing bosses gives you bonuses, iirc.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Warlin on June 15, 2008, 07:08:50 am
Yeah, I haven't been playing it like I did the MGS, MGS2 allowed me to tranq the enemies, so it was easier, but the controls weren't meant for fighting. In MGS4, it's easy to pick a spot and just pick off enemies with the tranq sniper or a regular sniper and just advance to the next area. So I wouldn't say I've been playing it like the others. Then again, MGS4 really is a new bag. The new direction for some of the gameplay elements is different but it all comes together quite well.

Also, last time I tried to play MGS4's MGO, I lagged out in the first 6 or 7 seconds... Yeah, MGO isn't going to happen for me anytime soon.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Tweaked_1551 on June 15, 2008, 08:40:37 am
I tranq'd both versions and found out later that you get statues for tranqing the beast.
Didn't Tranq mantis's though, Could not figure out how.

Same here,

Actually... does anyone know if you beat the B&B corps members without tranquilizing them (lethal take-down), then tranquilizing them when they're out of their suit count as a kill?

Also...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 15, 2008, 08:45:20 am
Quote


Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on June 15, 2008, 09:13:48 am
METAL GAY SOLID




Metal Drunk Solid





My favorite game ever  :fogetbackflip:
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 15, 2008, 09:26:49 am
maladroit i know when i said i was worried about you in that other topic i was being 100% sarcastic but i am actually being vaguely less sarcastic when i am saying it this time
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 15, 2008, 10:49:12 am

I played the game with a sixaxis controller Any idea what happens if you have a dual shock 3?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 15, 2008, 11:13:05 am
I played the game with a sixaxis controller Any idea what happens if you have a dual shock 3?

ya like I said he
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on June 15, 2008, 12:22:58 pm
I'd like to ask the same thing as Tweaked_1551 did, is it enough to tranq the bosses after they have shed their skin or do I need to tranq both phases? Also, tranq sniper?? I don't think I got anything like that.

Also yes, the part was totally awesome.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 15, 2008, 12:40:33 pm
I wish the dialog would've been more, idk, down to the earth. At times it was just really disgusting like every sentence Naomi said that wasn't medical gibberish was just plain horrible, there was a lot of times when I just thought to myself who the fuck would say so cheesy and awful lines in real life? Like how can you possible put fate and destiny into every sentence you speak with a serious face. Also I really disliked all the light and shadows metaphors and the only redeeming factor in the dialog was the voice acting.

Johnny was really awesome though, you can't go wrong with Johnny.

On other news it looks like MGS 4 has apparently doubled the sales of PS3.


PS. I think the Mosin Nagant is the tranq sniper??
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 15, 2008, 03:25:12 pm
Man, I can't believe made Captain in 10 years.  That's fucking bullshit.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 15, 2008, 03:50:46 pm
c-captain.... this is my first tiem.....
its ok.... its first for me too........
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 15, 2008, 04:34:38 pm
Quote
I wish the dialog would've been more, idk, down to the earth. At times it was just really disgusting like every sentence Naomi said that wasn't medical gibberish was just plain horrible, there was a lot of times when I just thought to myself who the fuck would say so cheesy and awful lines in real life? Like how can you possible put fate and destiny into every sentence you speak with a serious face. Also I really disliked all the light and shadows metaphors and the only redeeming factor in the dialog was the voice acting.
this. the start of the game was bad but tolerable but as it went on it seriously went into terrible fan-fiction dialog territory.

c-captain.... this is my first tiem.....
its ok.... its first for me too........
easily 20% of the cinematics in the game were totally unecessary and the game would not suffer at all (arguably much better) if they were deleted.

this game had too many DYING WORDS. this is the biggest cliche basically ever and everyone has dying words that last 5 minutes. sunny could have been completely eliminated from the game as far as i am concerned and this would improve the game greatly but kojima has some bizarre egg symbolism bullshit going on. i also found a lot of parts in the game where snake just STANDS while characters bullshit with him. like when you meet drebin, he acts like an idiot and talks to you for 20 minutes and snake just stands there like an idiot saying nothing. same deal with all 4 beasts, when you break their armour off they spaz out saying a bunch of garbage dialog and snake stands there with his gun pointed to them for 5 minutes not saying a single thing. also so many times in this game you would be STORMED BY BADDIES but they would take a 2 minute break to have a touching dialog scene while the enemies are virtually 2 seconds away from you.

terrible story and dialog and i really can't understand how this is the same guy who made MGS1.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 15, 2008, 04:45:55 pm
Quote
same deal with all 4 beasts, when you break their armour off they spaz out saying a bunch of garbage dialog and snake stands there with his gun pointed to them for 5 minutes not saying a single thing.

Yeah I raged about this a page back.  I can't count all the moments Snake had to kill an enemy but instead of busting out his rocket launcher he just stand there with a pistol and knife and as these killer robots and supermen chat on about manifest destiny or whatever.

Snake is such a tool.  I can understand dramatic tension or whatever but there should be some banter going back and forth.  Even in MGS1, he would just stand still and listen to people prattle on about conspiracies until they threw a hint about Metal Gear which would prompt Snake to hilariously burst out with METAL GEAR!!!???

Same with the Patriots in MGS2 and the Philosophers in MGS3. 

METAL GEAR!!?? DID YOU SAY METAL GEAR!!!?????? *insert weird grumbling/coughing/grunting noise that Hayter makes when Snake is frustrated*
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 15, 2008, 06:05:45 pm
add to the fact half of snakes dialog is him coughing or ARGHEGRH.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 15, 2008, 08:29:31 pm
WE ARE NOT MEANT TO GO INTO DESTINY

WE ARE BORN AND HERE TO ATONE FOR OUR SINS

NOT THE SINS OF THE FUTURE BUT OUR SINS OF THE PAST

BECAUSE DESTINY AND BY FAITH WE ARE NOT BOUND TO IT BECAUSE

WE HAVE TO ATONE FOR OUR SINS

THAT IS OUR DESTINY
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 15, 2008, 09:09:38 pm
Snake is such a tool.  I can understand dramatic tension or whatever but there should be some banter going back and forth.  Even in MGS1, he would just stand still and listen to people prattle on about conspiracies until they threw a hint about Metal Gear which would prompt Snake to hilariously burst out with METAL GEAR!!!???
You're right about the METAL GEAR!!!1+??? parts being really hilarious but I dunno man, if I recall it correctly Snake was a lot more uh social in mgs1 and they actually had some discussion that wasn't completely one-sided like it is in mgs4. Like Snake hitting on Mei Ling and going apeshit about Gray Fox and Metal Gear and I don't recall him doing these intense 30 minute listening sessions in mgs1 where he doesn't say a word when someone talks some overly complex philosophical garbage. In fact I don't recall any philosophical bullshit in mgs1 at all but its been like 10 years since I last played it through.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 15, 2008, 11:59:52 pm
You're right about the METAL GEAR!!!1+??? parts being really hilarious but I dunno man, if I recall it correctly Snake was a lot more uh social in mgs1 and they actually had some discussion that wasn't completely one-sided like it is in mgs4. Like Snake hitting on Mei Ling and going apeshit about Gray Fox and Metal Gear and I don't recall him doing these intense 30 minute listening sessions in mgs1 where he doesn't say a word when someone talks some overly complex philosophical garbage. In fact I don't recall any philosophical bullshit in mgs1 at all but its been like 10 years since I last played it through.

He participated in the conversation and was more sarcastic but he still took a back seat whenever a character decided to spill their guts (usually there were a contingency of guards in the next room but hey whatever).  He did get really pissed off everytime someone had a "heart attack" and talked to Meryl a lot especially during scenes like when you killed Wolf, Psycho, or Raven (he'd do a little eulogy which I thought was neat).  Raiden was actually a dick and constantly interrupted people during their monologues and MGS3 had really short cinemas compared to the other games and the bosses were unfortunately really one-dimensional so outside of the beat downs on Ocelot and smack talk to Volgin the cinematics would be 5 minutes to introduce the villain, make a quick speach, attack PLAY THE GAME.

But yeah, MGS4 Snake is just old and quiet and doesn't care.  Normally he'd toss in a snide remark but every scene is 30 minutes of one-sided conversation followed by PATRIOTS?????
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Niitaka on June 16, 2008, 12:13:00 am
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In Japanese, it's more like "Snake, the only way to avoid being destroyed by your destiny is to stand up to it." I'm sure that the translator got confused because she uses the same word ("unmei", for "destiny") twice in one sentence. She does this because they don't have a word for "it" in Japanese (or most other civilized languages aside from English); repeating a word in Japanese is either a way to re-specify the subject or object at hand or a way to emphasize said subject or object in a subtle turn of word play.

That the translator apparently misunderstood the heart of the sentence -- the deep irony of someone suggesting that "while it's impossible to NOT be destroyed by your destiny, if you don't WANT to be destroyed by it, all you have to do is take it like a man" -- and fell back on eighth-grade English composition rules: if all else fails, don't ever use the same word too many times in the same five pages, much less the same sentence! So they used "fate" and "destiny", like they were two different things.

Probably should have been something like "The only way to avoid the fate hurtling this way is to welcome it with open arms." I mean, take a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of liberty every now and then, people. The graphics alone should indicate that this thing is not, you know, a video game representation of a fucking microwave oven instruction manual.

So yeah, I watched that trailer in Japanese, and then in English, and that's how I arrived at the conclusion that MGS4 kinda sucks in English.

I'm........gonna go out on a limb and say that maybe it's the translation that sucks? Not that I think Kojima is the second coming of videogame storytelling but I can't believe some of the ridiculous lines in this game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 16, 2008, 01:50:51 am
man

if the story/dialogue/writing is so bad, why is this game getting tens?  fucking reviewers.  PERFECT.  PERFECT GAME... except for all that bad stuff.  i almost want to play it so i can see for myself but i have no desire whatsoever to own a ps3 so!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on June 16, 2008, 02:02:07 am
the story is pretty hit or miss on some people. if you don't like kojimas style, then you're not gonna like this and think it's shit. if you "get" Kojimas style and the hidden meaning behind it, you're basically going to love it, and love it even more since the cinematic quality is through the roof.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: RPG on June 16, 2008, 02:41:09 am
What hidden meanings man?

I only liked the story because I couldn't stop laughing at how bad it was. I mean seriously, the final battle left me in tears, it can't get any worse.

But it's cool in a way, so much b-movie with such high production values.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 16, 2008, 02:44:16 am
man

if the story/dialogue/writing is so bad, why is this game getting tens?  fucking reviewers.  PERFECT.  PERFECT GAME... except for all that bad stuff.  i almost want to play it so i can see for myself but i have no desire whatsoever to own a ps3 so!

Because if other reviewers took a chance like Edge or Gametrailers and actually pointed out the flaws people would be sending them death threats (seriously, one dude on Gametrailers board is like "where does this guy live i have anthrax).

To be fair, the gameplay is fantastic and I would easily rate it higher 9 (I hate fractions but 9.4 lololololol) but the plot itself is ridiculous.  The presentation is great, but the writing is odd in its translation and some scenes come off really stale.  Maybe an 8 or upper 7.

But it is a great game.  I'd easily give it a high 8 or a low 9.  Even if I didn't like MGS, I'd buy it for the game itself and the online mode which is really fun because of the multitude of weapons.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 16, 2008, 02:52:11 am
I just finished it. I really liked the first three acts, but they were short. They really had a lot of things missing that made the previous game "maps" so awesome. Battles were really awesome but there were really few. Once Snake went to I really started to hate the game. Basically EVERYONE WAS A FUCKING ROBOT. YOU CAN'T CQC A ROBOT. I really liked the gameplay basically. I just felt I was missing alot.

Now, the story, I am just so fucking pissed. I am really really fucking mad. I waited 4 years for this bullshit. It was mad cool for the first 3 parts, than it just takes this MASSIVE DOWN HILL. Characters keep dying and coming back. It even takes like an hour for everybody to fucking die. Theres so much shit I want to complain about, but I'm really bad at pulling stuff out of my head.

The ending was the biggest motherfucking let down ever. First you kill Then you run down a repeating hallway, than the game play just ends. Oh wait, you can fight but the controls are so fucking bad, it's just not epic at all. The actual ending was long as fuck, it was dumb because they reexplained the story two times. It was cheesy, there was nothing redeeming about it. The endings of MGS2 and 3 almost made me fucking cry because they were so epic. MGS4 has none of that.

NONE OF IT

FUCK THIS SHIT MAN

FUCk.

GOD WHO WROTE THIS SHIT

I had such high standards; again there was just nothing redeeming about the story. At all. I can't believe I waited 4 years for this bullshit.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Cheesy Doritos on June 16, 2008, 03:00:28 am
LIMAN YOU B  ASTARD

Yeah so I was alarmed by GT's responses as well. I was hoping it wouldn't get a ten, honestly, because I think they should be saved for the really perfect games, and I wasn't sure if this was one. From what I've heard, the plot isn't great? Also anyone want to explain the multiplayer modes?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 16, 2008, 03:18:03 am
Because if other reviewers took a chance like Edge or Gametrailers and actually pointed out the flaws people would be sending them death threats (seriously, one dude on Gametrailers board is like "where does this guy live i have anthrax).

To be fair, the gameplay is fantastic and I would easily rate it higher 9 (I hate fractions but 9.4 lololololol) but the plot itself is ridiculous.  The presentation is great, but the writing is odd in its translation and some scenes come off really stale.  Maybe an 8 or upper 7.

But it is a great game.  I'd easily give it a high 8 or a low 9.  Even if I didn't like MGS, I'd buy it for the game itself and the online mode which is really fun because of the multitude of weapons.
Dude, I don't think you can give a game a 9 because it has good gameplay in spite of an abysmal story, when cutscenes literally account for HALF THE GAME.  Maybe if the game wasn't story driven, it'd be fine, but it sounds like it clearly is, even to a further extent than most games, so when said story, dialogue, and characters are awful, it should have a serious impact on the game!  From how prominent you're saying the narrative is, it should be at least as integral to the game's overall quality as the gameplay, considering you apparently spend as much time sitting through FMVs as you do playing the game.  I haven't even played it, but going by what you're saying about how big a role story played in the game, and the quality of it, a flat 7 or something probably would've been a lot more appropriate.  Going "well the game is clearly story-driven and the story blows but 9/10!!" seems odd to me!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Niitaka on June 16, 2008, 03:37:08 am
by the way those of you who want to see the game without shelling out for a ps3:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QtHEsgqzUc8

there's a whole series of youtube videos of the entire game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Rye Bread on June 16, 2008, 06:42:45 am
I actually enjoyed most of the story.  Then again I was expecting the story to be cheesy and filled with fanservice.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ax_Dude on June 16, 2008, 11:47:27 am
Ok, Laugh if you want but i learnt something from those stupid cutscenes.

I learnt how to make perfect Sunny Side up eggs XD
Cover it with a lid and leave it for a minute works every fucking time.
And they are just right, With the yoke slightly cooked so its not all runny, but not all solid either.
Fucking Hideo
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 16, 2008, 01:03:37 pm
Dude, I don't think you can give a game a 9 because it has good gameplay in spite of an abysmal story, when cutscenes literally account for HALF THE GAME.  Maybe if the game wasn't story driven, it'd be fine, but it sounds like it clearly is, even to a further extent than most games, so when said story, dialogue, and characters are awful, it should have a serious impact on the game!  From how prominent you're saying the narrative is, it should be at least as integral to the game's overall quality as the gameplay, considering you apparently spend as much time sitting through FMVs as you do playing the game.  I haven't even played it, but going by what you're saying about how big a role story played in the game, and the quality of it, a flat 7 or something probably would've been a lot more appropriate.  Going "well the game is clearly story-driven and the story blows but 9/10!!" seems odd to me!

dude they've done this for every RPG ever, why would they switch it here? think of how many TALES OF SPACEIA or whatever generic pieces of shit get a 7.0 and above and those are RPGs, games not known for their gameplay.

basically reviewers don't actually care about story and if you have one that isn't just SAVE PRINCESS yeah they give it a pretty good rating!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on June 16, 2008, 03:59:39 pm
man

if the story/dialogue/writing is so bad, why is this game getting tens?  fucking reviewers.  PERFECT.  PERFECT GAME... except for all that bad stuff.  i almost want to play it so i can see for myself but i have no desire whatsoever to own a ps3 so!

Well . . . I sort of think personally that MGS 4 is perfect.  It is the best video game I've ever played!  I thought that the cutscenes were all excellent and the gameplay really couldn't have been much better.  There are so many things I could say about the game but I guess I'll save the essay for my blog or something.  I think the whole point of the writing is that it is pretty heavyhanded and droll - the game is saying something about video games.  But yeah I guess depending on whether or not you give the game the benefit of the doubt (it may or may not deserve it) your opinion could go radically in either direction.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ragnar on June 16, 2008, 07:16:17 pm
Ok, Laugh if you want but i learnt something from those stupid cutscenes.

I learnt how to make perfect Sunny Side up eggs XD
Cover it with a lid and leave it for a minute works every fucking time.
And they are just right, With the yoke slightly cooked so its not all runny, but not all solid either.
Fucking Hideo

Metal Gear Not Solid but Not Runny Either
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 17, 2008, 02:48:05 am
http://kotaku.com/5017036/battlefield-bad-company-mocks-metal-gear?autoplay=true
EA's take on MGS4.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 17, 2008, 02:58:48 am
dude they've done this for every RPG ever, why would they switch it here? think of how many TALES OF SPACEIA or whatever generic pieces of shit get a 7.0 and above and those are RPGs, games not known for their gameplay.

basically reviewers don't actually care about story and if you have one that isn't just SAVE PRINCESS yeah they give it a pretty good rating!
because this is a 10/10 not a 7 and it's not just story-driven, HALF OF THE GAME IS CUTSCENES.  i thought it'd be different!  i know i am constantly vocal to the point of being obnoxious about what giant douchebag whores all reviewers are but idk this is pushing it even for gamespot!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 03:07:16 am
Dude, I don't think you can give a game a 9 because it has good gameplay in spite of an abysmal story, when cutscenes literally account for HALF THE GAME.  Maybe if the game wasn't story driven, it'd be fine, but it sounds like it clearly is, even to a further extent than most games, so when said story, dialogue, and characters are awful, it should have a serious impact on the game!  From how prominent you're saying the narrative is, it should be at least as integral to the game's overall quality as the gameplay, considering you apparently spend as much time sitting through FMVs as you do playing the game.  I haven't even played it, but going by what you're saying about how big a role story played in the game, and the quality of it, a flat 7 or something probably would've been a lot more appropriate.  Going "well the game is clearly story-driven and the story blows but 9/10!!" seems odd to me!

Because, and I know this may be difficult for you to comprehend, it is a fun game.  Not every cutscene is poorly written and campy but despite that fact you can still play this game without knowing squat about the story and skip the cutscenes.

You can't do the same with an RPG.

This game takes about 10 hours to complete minus the cinematics plus all the hidden extras plus the great online mode plus the downloadable content.  You also have a wide variety of enemies, environments, weapons, and various situations which help spice up the gameplay.

An RPG is atleast 20-40 hours of mashing X, talking to NPCs, and leveling up.

It may be a story driven game but the gameplay is the focal point of the title and the game is, well, fun.  I could play MGO by itself and feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

If you don't plan on playing MGO one might feel a bit ripped off but when I rate games I try to look at all the mitigating factors and piece them together.  Pacing issues and golden age comic book villains aside, the game itself is top notch thus the writing doesn't adversely affect my enjoyment.  I still penalize it for its pandering but I'm not going to tell my buddy "Hey, don't buy this game.  It's really fun but the writing is juvenile THUS YOU WILL HATE EVERY ASPECT!!!"

But an RPG thrives on the plot and writing and the gameplay is almost always second.  In the case where the entire game balances on whether or not I can stay interested by reading massive amounts of text, the final score will be lowered dramatically but the beauty of MGS4 is that you can press START+SELECT and still enjoy the game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 03:18:53 am
oh yeah the making-of documentary that comes with the special edition specifically states the total length of cutscenes and it's something like 5 hours so yes, lots of exaggeration flying around in this topic!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 17, 2008, 03:20:33 am
What?  It's not that I CANNOT COMPREHEND FUN (lifeless robot....), it's that I think if that much of the game's time is devoted to story then having it be GOD AWFUL shouldn't just amount to -1 from the score on a scale of ten.  If that's the case then it's painfully obvious you don't give a shit about the story either way, in which case you're probably not the most objective person to be critiquing a story-driven game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 03:37:26 am
But it's not GOD AWFUL (fuck, why do people throw this word around so much??).

I already expressed my opinion on what is GOD AWFUL.  That is an extreme word that should be reserved for the trashiest of the trash like everything NIS releases or throwaway action games like conflict ops denied assault or whatever.  It is, by far, not awful, not horrible, not bad, not even mediocre.  There are hundreds of games worse than this and even comparing it to them is stupid.  I'll go off on a limb here and say it is above average.  There are eye rolling moments mostly coming from Naomi and Mei Ling who should've never been in the game at all, but for the most part it's good.  Obviously you have to be a fan of MGS to enjoy it because if this is your first MGS game or you haven't followed the story from the past 3 you'll be left the dark completely.

And the total length of the cutscenes, after just watching the documentary, is about 7 and a half hours so about 40% of the playtime is cutscenes.  but only a handful of them truely stand out and make you think "Why did they add that in again?"

So yeah, I hate giving numbers to video games and would much rather say "I recommend this to fans of the series but non-fans don't even fucking try" but game magazines, reviewers, and THE CONSUMER are too thick headed to comprehend words and can't make decisions without seeing an arbitrary number tied to it.  On a purely math related basis a 9 in gameplay and a 7 in story would average out to 8.5 so I cannot understand how this is poor reasoning or whatever.  Since there's no objective way to tell if a game was specifically designed to convey a story I think it's just as hypocritical to say "Well, because it's a story driven game I'm going to count the gameplay as 10% of the final score and the story as 90%." 

it's math.

EDIT: Speaking of which, it is my goal one day to start a comic/game/movie review site that completely throws away the numbers system and simply offers a generic recommendation as the "total score."  I'm much more inclined to buy something when someone says "If you're a fan of campy action and puntastic dialog then this is the product for you!" 
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: headphonics on June 17, 2008, 03:57:56 am
Why do you think other people are saying it's so awful, then?  People have a tendency to exaggerate but I sort of trust GZ's opinion when he says "man this is really bad".  In a way, I think pandering intellectual garbage like Xenosaga is worse than the shit NIS puts out.  NIS is fluff, at least; it never tries to be anything more than that.  These presumptuous, quasi-philosophical, deep-as-a-puddle games are much harder for me to sit through.  I guess if you're saying "the story is good" then w/e what do I know, but if it is as bad for the reasons they're saying it is (obtuse, needlessly convoluted plotline, stupid characters, lame dialogue that is in no way believable, lots of stupid intellectual musing thrown about) then I don't know how you can hate NIS stuff while rating it above average.

How is that hypocritical, though?  You act like there's some kind of double standard here, but when games like SotC come out that clearly AREN'T especially reliant on story, people don't come out of the woodwork and complain about how bad the story is, which is what it seems like you're implying.  No one's counting gameplay as 10% (50% at the least!), either, but I didn't know you thought of the story as a 7, since everyone else seems to hate it!

Also yeah I'd like to see a review site that just SUMMED UP THEIR POSITION at the end instead of just assigning some arbitrary number.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Niitaka on June 17, 2008, 04:26:19 am
admittedly i had hoped that it would be cool if snake had to sneak through a big-brotheresque police state and mgs4 actually does this! the thing is that the game does have its interesting moments but there's just so MUCH bizarre/convoluted shit that doesnt make the game any better by being there. i think if someone had gone through and axed a bunch of the extraneous material the game would be a lot better than what it is now.

edit: like gz said about how in mgs2 there were interesting issues that the game touches on: mgs4 does do some of that (using technology to suppress emotion and morality, war profiteering etc) but a lot of the time it's really overbearing and heavy-handed that it doesnt work very well.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 04:35:11 am
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These presumptuous, quasi-philosophical, deep-as-a-puddle games are much harder for me to sit through.  I guess if you're saying "the story is good" then w/e what do I know, but if it is as bad for the reasons they're saying it is (obtuse, needlessly convoluted plotline, stupid characters, lame dialogue that is in no way believable, lots of stupid intellectual musing thrown about) then I don't know how you can hate NIS stuff while rating it above average.

Because it's honestly not as bad as people are saying it is.  Like I said, there are handful of scenes which come off as needlessly pretentious specifically with Naomi but other than that, it's more or less James Bond the video game than anything that tries to be deep or philosophical.  They occasionally remind the player that war fuels the economy, soldiers exist to kill and nothing else, blah blah blah but it doesn't degrade the plot from being above average (which is what a 6 or 7 represents for me).  Those minus 4 points equal out to what I consider the occasional *sigh* or eye rolling.  Now if it were a 4 or 5, that'd be the equivalent of verbally shouting "OH COME ON!"

Quote
You act like there's some kind of double standard here, but when games like SotC come out that clearly AREN'T especially reliant on story, people don't come out of the woodwork and complain about how bad the story is, which is what it seems like you're implying.

Well, on the contrary a lot of people complained about the game's plot including the ending because it was depressing or something stupid like that but I digress.  If the positive completely outweighs the negative (in this case gameplay over story) then it shouldn't completely cripple one's opinion or enjoyment of it.  I stabbed myself in the leg with a pen every hour of BioShock I played after the "twist" but I still enjoyed the game a great deal at the end moreso than any other game that year and the year before it.

Quote
edit: like gz said about how in mgs2 there were interesting issues that the game touches on: mgs4 does do some of that (using technology to suppress emotion and morality, WAR ECONOMY etc) but a lot of the time it's really overbearing and heavy-handed that it doesnt work very well.

If they cut out monlogue and gave Snake some actual dialog this problem could have easily been fixed.  There are seriously scenes where Snake has about 2 lines and they seem more like theater asides than actual conversation between two people.  All of the real world events were interesting (like you said the war economy and emotion controlling nanomachines) but every badguy had this lofty flowery idealistic agenda and Snake just stood there, gun pointed at them, while they spouted off 30 minutes of their ideal utopia (cue boss fight + longwinded death).  If an editor had just come in and said "Okay, we don't need this to advance the storyline CUT IT" then it would be perfect. 
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Rye Bread on June 17, 2008, 04:48:08 am
Yeah, I can't think of any of the actual SCENES to be that bad, just some of the monologues were pretty bad (also Naomi)
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Niitaka on June 17, 2008, 04:55:47 am
the worse thing about snake is that he echoes people:

Big Mama: you know, the founder of the patriots"
Snake:   does he really have to do this ALL THE FUCKING time afasdfasd

Marcus sez: That's kind of a spoiler.  Edited it for you.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 05:01:21 am
Snakes echo wasn't as bad as it was in MGS1 (I still can't get over that METAL GEEEEAR???? with the Hayter trademark upward inflection) but yeah, it was like the writers were trying to come up with something for him to say so they just have him reiterate everything. 

I think Snake is closer to a mute hero in this game than any other game.  He's basically a sponge for everyone elses' thoughts (but he does berate Campbel for marrying which I smiled at and quietly cheered him on).  I think a 7 fairly represents an overall decent script sullied by Kojima's trademark exposition.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on June 17, 2008, 02:49:53 pm
Snakes echo wasn't as bad as it was in MGS1 (I still can't get over that METAL GEEEEAR???? with the Hayter trademark upward inflection) but yeah, it was like the writers were trying to come up with something for him to say so they just have him reiterate everything. 

I think Snake is closer to a mute hero in this game than any other game.  He's basically a sponge for everyone elses' thoughts (but he does berate Campbel for marrying which I smiled at and quietly cheered him on).  I think a 7 fairly represents an overall decent script sullied by Kojima's trademark exposition.

Well I figured that Snake was so quiet because we know what he'll say by now and he doesn't really need to say it anymore.  Also Jesus he's extremely depressed and I got the impression that he just didn't have the willpower to care enough to say anything.  Like if he narrows his eyebrows and points his gun at someone you sort of know what he's thinking.  But I agree that if once or twice he would have just exclaimed Shut up! it would have been amazing.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 17, 2008, 03:59:22 pm
how can you forget one of the worst parts of the story? nanomachines itself. everything that you cannot possibly explained is done so with NANOMACHINES. this is the most retarded bullshit and it pissed me off the entire time. admittedly they used nanomachines in the other games, but never to this degree. this is such a lazy way to explain things and in general i felt the game took any means possible to finish up the story, which ended up in a train wreck.

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Yeah, I can't think of any of the actual SCENES to be that bad, just some of the monologues were pretty bad (also Naomi)


the list goes on. the game can't be two things at once. in other words, they want you to give a shit about the characters and scenario in this game but they do this ridiculous over the top shit. another terrible part in the game is how they diliberately went out of their way to hurt snake in hopes of making it more epic, but failed in every regard in my opinion, and was completely forced.



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Well I figured that Snake was so quiet because we know what he'll say by now and he doesn't really need to say it anymore.  Also Jesus he's extremely depressed and I got the impression that he just didn't have the willpower to care enough to say anything.  Like if he narrows his eyebrows and points his gun at someone you sort of know what he's thinking.
this seems very characteristic. a gruff soldier who doesn't give a damn would sit by and just listen to these idiots tell their stories. or, you know, shoot them in the head and be done with it? as in, like every other solider he has encountered in the game. snake was a tool of the story so they could WRAP IT UP. snake was such an inconsistent character it isn't even funny (in this game).

if you like stupid wacky stories, i am not going to hold it against anyone who likes the story, but i cannot stand how anyone could say this is actually GOOD in any capacity. there are a lot of BAD GAMES i like but i would never defend them and say they are actually good. metal gear is a good game, but everything in regards to story and characters hovers around average or worse.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on June 17, 2008, 05:11:14 pm

Ahaha yeah you have Raiden and MKII there but no no no no,

I wonder if Hayter got like 200x times smaller paycheck for this one since he did like 5 minutes worth of dialogue for Snake.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on June 17, 2008, 08:16:34 pm
I'm a big fan of the series and I having just completed it I would say I don't think I have ever been so amazed by a videogame...

What's next for Kojima?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 17, 2008, 11:51:26 pm
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how can you forget one of the worst parts of the story? nanomachines itself. everything that you cannot possibly explained is done so with NANOMACHINES. this is the most retarded bullshit and it pissed me off the entire time. admittedly they used nanomachines in the other games, but never to this degree. this is such a lazy way to explain things and in general i felt the game took any means possible to finish up the story, which ended up in a train wreck.

I dunno what you're talking about here because they really didn't do anything that hasn't already been introduced in the previous games.  I had my fill of nanomachines with Deus Ex but all they really did was link nanomachines with the control of people's bodies (which is pretty much what nanomachines are supposed to do in theory) and the genetic alteration of Snake's genes which created the mutated virus.

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the list goes on. the game can't be two things at once. in other words, they want you to give a shit about the characters and scenario in this game but they do this ridiculous over the top shit. another terrible part in the game is how they diliberately went out of their way to hurt snake in hopes of making it more epic, but failed in every regard in my opinion, and was completely forced.

I'm on the fence here because MGS has always been over the top but it's remained in the realm of science fiction.  In Metal Gear, you defeat Big Boss with a lighter and aerosol spray.  In Metal Gear 2 you destroy a super computer which was supposedly the anti-patriot weapon.  In Metal Gear Solid you go up against a guy with ESP and psychic powers and a robotic ninja.  MGS2 pretty much soared passed the bar but it was all a simulation so it doesn't count.  The Cobra unit in MGS3 was pretty wacky but their powers were still somewhat grounded in reality; you can control bees with pheremones (which I assume is what The Pain does) and The End gathers energy from the sun (which is kind of fantasy-ish but not too far fetched).

If they had removed Raiden and Vamp from the equation, the suspension of disbelief would have been much easier IMO.  The story is still science fiction but the B&B's, FROGS, and Metal Gears are plausible in a near future setting.  Vamp, on the other hand, and Superman Raiden were well into the realms of fantasy.  Their existence in the game was pure fanservice and really hurt the flow of the story but they were small time players so it's not like the entire game hinged on their appearance.

I guess I expected a degree of crazy shit in the game because, well, Metal Gear Solid is a science fiction game with fantasy elements.  In the same effect that James Bond has villains that can catch bullets in their teeth and kill people by throwing a hat, MGS has robot ninjas and organic mechas.  I guess by setting the game close to real world events, majority of the players expect the game to be realistic or plausible but I see this as completely opposite of the case.  I hung my disbelief at the door well before turning on the game.  I penalize the game for the occasional Shonen Action Moment a.k.a. SHAM(c) but for the most part it's 100% science-fiction and there's no way I'd say it's HORRIBLE or GOD-AWFUL science fiction. 
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Post by: Rye Bread on June 18, 2008, 12:13:15 am
I could accept Raiden to an because he was partly mechanical at that point, but nothing involving Vamp fully explained his superhuman abilities and his complete disregard of physics.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 18, 2008, 12:25:26 am
I could accept Raiden to an because he was partly mechanical at that point, but nothing involving Vamp fully explained his superhuman abilities and his complete disregard of physics.

Well actually it was passed off as being which I can understand to a degree (the whole point of them is to help humans repair tissue and enhance basic abilities) but, and this goes back to what GZ was saying (but a smaller degree) it really ruined his character.

Here's my beef with Vamp and Raiden; Vamp was supposed to be one of the major villains in MGS2.  He had an air of mystery and magic surrounding him; was he really a vampire?  Who knows, who cares, he was a menace and pretty dispacable, you shot him in the head it should have been over there.  By reintroducing him, they turned him into a 2-bit lackey with superpowers.  Running on water, dodging bullets, that can be explained as special monk training or predicting where shots will be fired or something.  I can  believe that in a science fiction setting.

But Vamp was dancing around and leaping 30 feat in the air and Raiden, get this, WAS BREAK DANCING TWO GECKOS ATTACHED TO A CORD.  Slicing a GECKO's legs and running fast I can believe, but Raiden had the strength to literally pick up 10 tons of robots with his legs and SPIN AROUND ON HIS HANDS yet that same strength didn't completely obliterate Vamp when he stepped on the guy's chest???  Raiden was even pulling off Dead or Alive moves with his SWORD-IN-BOOT spinning around and quadruple sword spinning somersaults.

Those two characters are the only ones that drew me out of the story and left an awful taste in my mouth.  Vamp and Raiden have the combined power to kill Ocelot in a heartbeat but they spend it in a cheesy fight that was basically a spit in the face to the series' events.  I'm pretty sure there were people MASTURBATING to the scene because, in all honesty, it was very well done fight scene but it had absolutely no place in the game.  Any writer worth his salt will tell you that if a scene doesn't advance the story or connect to the theme, it should be cut but this scene was clearly masturbatory and quite possibly the hugest fanservice I've ever seen in a video game.  Period.

So everything else I can easily understand being in a fictional universe.  Frank Jagger and Olga as the robot Ninja is believable.  Nanomachines healing wounds and causing you to go insane is believable.  Mechanical suits that enhance human abilities is believable.  A guy breakdancing robots and a dude that heals instaneously belongs in Naruto or something.  Once again, fanservice, but thankfully it just one scene and the game moves ahead quickly.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 18, 2008, 12:46:28 am
in regards to nanomachines however i think you are glossing over this, because i don't know of any game that abused such a thing to this degree. what i am saying here is that if they wanted to do ANYTHING in this story all they have to say is one word: nanomachines. i get the whole suspension of disbelief but metal gear isn't even consistent in it's own universe.

in general this game did whatever the fuck it wanted and offered the cheapest or no explanation at all. i won't comment on the other metal gears, MGS1 was the only one that had a semi-serious story, but it's no surprise that was the game that skyrocketed the series.

basically i am a faggot for even going in depth to this stuff, but when i was playing this game every 5 minutes i asked myself "WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS / THIS MAKES NO SENSE" and very little effort went into explaining any of this.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 18, 2008, 01:02:06 am
I thought it was explained that the   It's safe to bet that people jumped on the idea to become living breathing super soldiers and something like a failsafe override or a control mechanism was strictly unheard of.

This is a funny conversation because this "wizard did it" mechanic can be traced back to other stories like Star Wars and the mitichlorians or whatever (tiny little parasites that affect reality or something stupid like that). 

EDIT: For those of you who aren't following, the series of events leading up to LOL NANOMACHINES goes like this: (yeah yeah, this entire thing is past game spoilers shut up)

1: Big Boss, greatest soldier in the world.

2: Les Enfants Terribles project which creates three clones of Big Boss.

3: Outer Heaven and Zanzibar conflict where Solid Snake kills Big Boss.

4: The Genome Soldier Project begins which takes the genetic DNA from Snake and fuses them with nanomachines to create enhanced soldiers.  Snake defeats the perfect clone, Liquid, who was killed by FOXDIE because his genetics matched up (FOXDIE is essentially a failsafe).  Snake, being the imperfect clone, isn't affected.

From there, nanomachines are used to monitor soldiers on the battlefield and they were enhanced in MGS4 to the point where soldiers can sense what their comrades are experiencing.  Liquid has a way of literally shutting down the nanomachines in the soldier's blood and wants to use this technology to overthrow the Patriots.  Snake is dying, he finds out something terrible about FOXDIE and has nothing better to do but to stop him.

That's pretty much a summation of all the events that lead up to the game's story.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 18, 2008, 01:13:27 am
spoiles (heard direct from kojima(): the entire game is the dream of a drunk homeless man who drank too much lysol
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 18, 2008, 01:21:42 am
You don't own the special edition dvd but they say in the documentary that the game is a VR simulation programmed by Dr. Hal Emmerich to create the perfect gamer; one who is destined to spend their money following a game series and it's dozens of incarnations over the course of 20 years.

It is fate that brought you to MGS4, GZ.  Do not deny it.  Because to deny fate is to deny yourself.  You are the perfect gamer.  My creation.  5,000 years ago when the earth was raw, your ancestors crawled from the primordial ooze and looked upon their new domain, and it was good.

Who am I you ask?  Why, I am the PaTrIoTs.



The End
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on June 18, 2008, 01:31:25 am
You don't own the special edition dvd but they say in the documentary that the game is a VR simulation programmed by Dr. Hal Emmerich to create the perfect gamer; one who is destined to spend their money following a game series and it's dozens of incarnations over the course of 20 years.
Is this legit? I have the limited edition set but I don't plan on opening it soon. Metal Gear limited editions always go for a ridiculous amount of money. A limited Subsistence set recently went for like $200 recently opened on ebay.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 18, 2008, 01:44:12 am
Is this legit? I have the limited edition set but I don't plan on opening it soon. Metal Gear limited editions always go for a ridiculous amount of money. A limited Subsistence set recently went for like $200 recently opened on ebay.

(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/kermit.jpg)

Psyburn... I just don't know about you, man!  The sad thing is that what I just typed actually sounds PLAUSIBLE in the "MGS Universe."
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 19, 2008, 01:25:51 am
Because    
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 19, 2008, 05:46:01 am
Because    
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 19, 2008, 07:37:56 am


Quote


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Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 19, 2008, 08:24:24 am


in any case, you will be hard pressed to find anyone (even kojima himself) who could adequetly defend all the decisions made in this game. as in, how it makes sense even in the game world itself. many people would agree this game is a fan service, and this is already a bad sign. i don't know what you thought of the story, but i can say with a lot of confidence the story has a tremendous amount of flaws and a lot of it is due to appealing to fans and trying to close out the series. just think the MGS series answered 95% of questions in one game, when it was a series that spanned several games and consoles.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 19, 2008, 09:01:23 am
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Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 19, 2008, 09:17:38 am
i'm not even going to bother here. i could get into details here but it seems you are pretty satisfied with the story, i'm glad you enjoyed the story but i did not. i think you many people have issues with certain parts of the game and these problems stem from every where (you yourself even). if you look at this topic alone you will find people talking about various things they did not like from virtually all parts of the game. the only thing i will say in response, is that the two biggest cliches in this game are the dying words, and the pausing for minutes during action scenes. i'm aware this is done a lot, but i don't think other movies / games that do this are justified in doing it most of the time either.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 19, 2008, 09:25:23 am
Whatever floats your boat. I edited my last comment btw if you didn't notice.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 22, 2008, 01:58:23 am
i finally finished this game.

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: The Dude on June 22, 2008, 08:30:49 am
My favourite thing about this game was the

EDIT: You know what the sad thing is though? Despite all that's happened, fanboys will still bitch that the next game isn't about Snake. "Aw, this is going to be so gay, just give us Snake back." Damn son, war changes people.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Warlin on June 23, 2008, 06:22:41 am
I must agree,

As long as the next game's protagonist isn't lame and whiny like Raiden was in MGS2 I'm perfectly fine with it. Speaking of Raiden,
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on June 23, 2008, 03:53:43 pm


Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 23, 2008, 06:06:06 pm
As long as the next game's protagonist isn't lame and whiny like Raiden was in MGS2 I'm perfectly fine with it. Speaking of Raiden,

if by that you mean really ridiculous and stereotypically anime, then sure!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 23, 2008, 06:09:41 pm
Raiden never once complained or "whined" at all during the game and he couldn't because he was programmed (er, trained) to accept orders.  I don't know where the fuck people get this whiny attitude from as Snake has complained more times than Raiden, but I guess people just didn't like his voice actor.  Raiden took down a fucking harrier, a vampire superman, 12+ Metal Gear Ray's, and he took down a dual katana wielding guy in a super suit.  Raiden was a bigger badass than Snake and I can totally understand him becoming some Dragon Ball Z character in MGS4 considering the fact that he was pulling off FEATS OF SUPERHUMAN STRENGTH in MGS2.

I attribute the same thing to Tidus.  The guy complained for maybe two scenes (I'd be pissed too if I found out I was someone's dream and got yanked out of my homeworld) but everyone calls him whiny just because of the voice actor and he doesn't swing a gunblade and wear a purple jumpsuit.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ragnar on June 24, 2008, 03:04:04 am
Yeah I always liked that fact that Raiden was all like I'M ROOKIE and yet he probably kills more stuff dead than Snake ever did even though he's all like I'll never live up to the legendary Solid Snake
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on June 26, 2008, 08:26:03 am
Has anyone else noticed that
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Tweaked_1551 on June 26, 2008, 03:37:14 pm
I think the whole dislike for Raiden comes from the fact that you have to play as him in MGS2, and not as Snake, also the fact his appearance in MGS2 is kind of girly. I didn't really mind playing as him though and thought he was a good character; would I have preferred to play as Snake? most definitely.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 27, 2008, 06:24:14 pm
I think the whole dislike for Raiden comes from the fact that you have to play as him in MGS2, and not as Snake, also the fact his appearance in MGS2 is kind of girly. I didn't really mind playing as him though and thought he was a good character; would I have preferred to play as Snake? most definitely.

From a story standpoint I enjoyed playing as Raiden much more.  MGS4 pretty much brings up the whole problem with Snake and Kojima's style of storytelling; he uses his main characters as silent protagonists while the side characters babble on about whatever.  It worked for Raiden because the guy had no personality (and he wasn't supposed to) and Snake/Plissken was given room to develop as a character because of it.  If anything MGS2 made Snake more human and I can't imagine the game having the same feeling if you played as him from beginning to end.  Both characters had the same moveset so in the end it all boiled down to who's character model you liked the most.  Kojima threw him in there as a big F.U. to everyone expecting to play as Snake and shit, it worked.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on June 27, 2008, 06:33:35 pm
From a story standpoint I enjoyed playing as Raiden much more.  MGS4 pretty much brings up the whole problem with Snake and Kojima's style of storytelling; he uses his main characters as silent protagonists while the side characters babble on about whatever.  It worked for Raiden because the guy had no personality (and he wasn't supposed to) and Snake/Plissken was given room to develop as a character because of it.  If anything MGS2 made Snake more human and I can't imagine the game having the same feeling if you played as him from beginning to end.  Both characters had the same moveset so in the end it all boiled down to who's character model you liked the most.  Kojima threw him in there as a big F.U. to everyone expecting to play as Snake and shit, it worked.

i agree! snake seemed much more fleshed out in MGS2 compared to 4. he didn't just repeat everything everyone said back to them, he actually gave meaningful speeches!
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Post by: Marcus on June 27, 2008, 06:44:35 pm
and the manly hug with otacon...

i cried
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Post by: Ryan on June 27, 2008, 06:47:33 pm
dont forget the secret handshake


though hearing the music reminded me that MGS2's theme is easily my favorite out of the series
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Post by: pburn on June 27, 2008, 07:14:01 pm
though hearing the music reminded me that MGS2's theme is easily my favorite out of the series
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 28, 2008, 11:58:00 am
Man, I completely forgot about the GECKO shitting from the old trailers.  Why the hell did they remove that???

Also, in the original opening for the B&B, Raging Raven and Crying Wolf actually cut the rebels in half when they fly by but it was edited in the final version.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 28, 2008, 04:02:31 pm
it shits in the game too! same part.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 28, 2008, 04:30:34 pm
I can't seem to remember it... oh well.

Anyways, dumb thing: when fighting Liquid, if he puts Snake in a choke hold don't press anything.  Liquid kisses Snake on the cheek.

I laughed.  I cried.

EDIT: BWAHAHAHA (http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/angryblackguy/ocelotrunning.gif)
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 30, 2008, 02:19:55 pm
so I've been playing this game, if you can really call it that. there's seriously no fucking gameplay, I pretty much have to decide OKAY I WANT TO WATCH MORE OF THIS MOVIE which is pretty annoying when half the cinematics are "DONT FORGET: WAR IS BAD".

I never really thought that would be a complaint I'd have but for fuck's sake this is ridiculous. I forgot to save after act 1 and skipped all the cinematics for it and seriously reached the end on normal difficulty in like 30 minutes.

this shit annoys the fuck out of me so far!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on June 30, 2008, 06:29:45 pm
No gameplay?  I love the gameplay especially sneaking around and participating in the fights without being spotted.  Chasing Naomi in Act II is exhilarating if you decide not to storm through it and avoid getting spotted.

Them cutscenes are a different story.  Half of them are decent but the other half were like written for comedy movies in mind.  I want you to write down how long you laugh at the end of Act IV especially the scene where Raiden "saves the day" and Ocelot takes off running while taunting Snake who broke his arm (which is magically healed at the end of the act).

The fact that Mei Ling, a fucking CAPTAIN in the US Navy and CO of her own ship, was falling around, wearing the wrong uniform, and exposing her ass to everyone made me groan hard.

I give the game a six (outta 11).

p.s. before panda comes in here and throws a fit i want to let him know that i love fucking with his head and my original score was before i finished act 4 which is where the game's story seriously turns into a steaming turd.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on June 30, 2008, 07:21:19 pm
its just I can't sit down and decide to play an hour of MGS4 like I can with any other game, because its fucking impossible. it really is more like OKAY TIME TO CONTINUE THE MOVIE and I'm just not in the mood half the time. I don't know why he made this decision to just be 90% cutscenes but it isn't conducive even remotely to pick up and play.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Grogrog on June 30, 2008, 10:09:07 pm
its just I can't sit down and decide to play an hour of MGS4 like I can with any other game, because its fucking impossible. it really is more like OKAY TIME TO CONTINUE THE MOVIE and I'm just not in the mood half the time. I don't know why he made this decision to just be 90% cutscenes but it isn't conducive even remotely to pick up and play.

Have you not played a MGS game? That's part of their appeal. If you don't like it, then shouldn't you have learned that you shouldn't be playing MGS games from the others? I mean this game has more cutscenes then the others, but I enjoyed all of it (a lot of it was really lame, but normally wasn't a killer or anything). And stop making up shitty statistics as it isn't really close to 90%.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on June 30, 2008, 10:17:11 pm
MGS is not a pick-up and play game. you basically need to set time aside for it, and hope there are no interruptions. i don't mind this, but i imagine for many people this is a huge turn-off.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on July 01, 2008, 12:04:26 am
Have you not played a MGS game? That's part of their appeal. If you don't like it, then shouldn't you have learned that you shouldn't be playing MGS games from the others? I mean this game has more cutscenes then the others, but I enjoyed all of it (a lot of it was really lame, but normally wasn't a killer or anything). And stop making up shitty statistics as it isn't really close to 90%.

I used to think it was an exaggeration too but that was before I watched the making of disc and learned that the total amount of cutscenes is shy of 8 hours (MGS4's cinemas are longer than most commercial games jeezus).  Considering one of the accomplishments is beating the game in under 5 hours, 60-70% of the game being cutscenes is a fairly accurate statement.

Of course, you can say "well take your time with the game, then" to which I reply with "You can take your time with any game to stretch it out but that doesn't save it from a lack of content."  MGO really saves the game from being a horrible $60 purchase.  It's not like Uncharted which is 10 hours of pure gameplay for 60$.  This game is 5 hours of crawling on your stomach, tranq'ing guards, and watching cutscenes (oh yeah, press 'x' to view flashback) for 60$ and a good multiplayer experience if you like the game enough to give a damn..

Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 01:44:11 pm
Have you not played a MGS game? That's part of their appeal. If you don't like it, then shouldn't you have learned that you shouldn't be playing MGS games from the others? I mean this game has more cutscenes then the others, but I enjoyed all of it (a lot of it was really lame, but normally wasn't a killer or anything). And stop making up shitty statistics as it isn't really close to 90%.

WHOOPS NOT 90% THANKS FOR CORRECTING MY STATS don't be an idiot! I'd honestly say the MAJORITY of what I've played has been with the controller in my lap. also hahahaha HAS STEEL PLAYED AN MGS GAME.

my point is there's just this surprising dearth of actual gameplay so far. maybe I'm just great at games intrinsically though and firing my way through but I don't remember sighing and thinking "well I better beat MGS2 now". at least the cinematics there were also kind of interesting, but here I've had two conversations with this Drebin guy about shit I've figured out already. or this MISSION BRIEFING shit where you can drive around with a little camera. that shit lasted fucking forever and it's all dumb crap. the dialogue rehashes shit over and over or talks about stuff I don't care about. oh, the System has a great anti-hacking protection grid OKAY YOU SAID IT SHUT UP.

basically yeah this is the first game I've had to consciously make a decision that I'm going to have to commit a set number of hours to, and it's a weird feeling.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on July 01, 2008, 02:56:53 pm
I agree with Steel, MGS4 is awesome.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 03:30:07 pm
harrrrgh right now okay they figured out that the System can control soldier's senses. they said it...and then CUT AWAY TO ANOTHER CUTSCENE explaining the whole damn thing. I figured this out when it happened, but hey, here it is talking about this. why does everything have to be so fucking overexplained? why can't they just say it and be done with it!

maybe I am just a supergenius not entertained by overexplaining but seriously if these cutscenes were entertaining I would not mind them as much! they are just WRODS WORDS WORDS that I've figured out already for the most part.

also I saw the octopus person when I hit L1 and Snake did not which is pretty weird.

edit: for fuck's sake it took like 30 minutes to finally reveal that Foxdie is a bioweapon, this is what the BEGINNING should have told us. someone needs to learn to write dialogue for these people!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 04:13:18 pm
so hey, is it possible to not kill the bosses, like in MGS2? like tranq them out? the octopus chick had too much health so I didn't bother!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on July 01, 2008, 04:38:51 pm
so hey, is it possible to not kill the bosses, like in MGS2? like tranq them out? the octopus chick had too much health so I didn't bother!

Yes.  I did that to every boss.  It's a pain with the pistol but if you buy the sniper rifle that shoots darts it is much less of a hassle.  I am not certain what the special rewards are (I know there must be some) because I haven't beaten any of them the normal way!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 01, 2008, 05:15:04 pm
After you defeat both their forms by stamina killing, you must acquire a small statue from the place you fought them. If you collect them all, you get the Solar Gun.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 01, 2008, 05:21:46 pm
the stupid thing about the solar gun is that there are actually five statues. four from the bosses, and one from a frog encounter (when you meet up with meryl) at the very start of the game. you need to use non-lethal means to beat this part and people have said if you shoot a frog while they are on a wall and they drop far enough, it counts as a kill for you. i had no problems on this part, but i have no idea why they added this fifth statue when they give you no real indication to use non-lethal weapons.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 05:24:30 pm
wait there actually is a solar gun, I thought that was a fakepost.

oh well it's not my copy of the game and I already killed the frog soldiers, so no big loss, it's just kind of funny. SOLAR GUN. what's it do?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on July 01, 2008, 05:28:02 pm
After you defeat both their forms by stamina killing, you must acquire a small statue from the place you fought them. If you collect them all, you get the Solar Gun.

Son of a bitch I didn't know this :(
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 01, 2008, 05:29:40 pm
it's an infinite ammo gun because you can recharge it by holding O (takes maybe 20 seconds???). i don't know if you actually have to be outdoors for it to work. also you can vary the shot power by holding the fire button down longer and it shoots a ball of energy. it's basically a normal gun.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 05:31:58 pm
argh another mission briefing TIME TO BROWSE GW basically huh. also what's Naomi talking about, the trick to eggs is not to NOT SEE THEM, you have to see the eggs!!! the problem was she broke the yolk earlier.

SEE THE EGGS.

this is such a strange game, I don't know how to feel about it still. so much of it is cutscenes, and then there's all these aesthetic decisions, I don't know how I feel about it!!!

it's an infinite ammo gun because you can recharge it by holding O (takes maybe 20 seconds???). i don't know if you actually have to be outdoors for it to work. also you can vary the shot power by holding the fire button down longer and it shoots a ball of energy. it's basically a normal gun.

oh, so nothing too interesting for that level of work!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 01, 2008, 05:36:38 pm
i downloaded a save with all the stuff unlocked. to do it for real you easily have to replay the game 10 times to get all the stuff, not to mention some of it is really hard to get. the stupid thing is, if you beat the game on BIG BOSS difficulty in under X hours and never get seen and all this other ridiculous stuff you get a SUPER GUN but you are already a mutant at playing the game and did everything so why bother? this is another reason why i downloaded a save, because i didn't want to get bored replaying it to earn stuff then never use the things i unlocked because i was sick of the game.

i don't think any of the secret items you get are particularly interesting. there's a lot of stuff to unlock but as a whole it's just quirky items. stealth camo is probably the best but i would never grind to get the money to buy it (5,000,000 drebin dubloons).
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 01, 2008, 07:03:57 pm
stealth camo is probably the best but i would never grind to get the money to buy it (5,000,000 drebin dubloons).
Just finish the game with 0 alerts.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 01, 2008, 07:25:00 pm
that's what doesn't make sense to me though. if you can beat the game with zero alerts, you know the game inside and out, so why do you need stealth camo? a lot of games do this where once you do some challenge they will give you something that destroys the challenge of the game even further. in RE2 you get a rocket launcher if you beat the game only using normal weapons and no first aid sprays (also in under 3 hours!). at this point though you are so good at the game having a rocket launcher doesn't really mean anything and you probably won't play it again. so this is a general game complaint i guess.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: flyingserpent on July 01, 2008, 07:27:48 pm
i refuse to play this game because from the first cutscene to killing the first enemy is 20 minutes, you don't have to play this game i mean there are like maybe 3 hours of playable content, some guy on youtube did it if you skip the cut scenes there are maybe 3 hours of playable content   like wtf is the point
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 01, 2008, 08:08:44 pm
that's what doesn't make sense to me though. if you can beat the game with zero alerts, you know the game inside and out, so why do you need stealth camo? a lot of games do this where once you do some challenge they will give you something that destroys the challenge of the game even further. in RE2 you get a rocket launcher if you beat the game only using normal weapons and no first aid sprays (also in under 3 hours!). at this point though you are so good at the game having a rocket launcher doesn't really mean anything and you probably won't play it again. so this is a general game complaint i guess.
Just for fun? I don't think the point of the extras is to give the player something he NEEDS to finish the game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ralph on July 01, 2008, 08:11:18 pm
The extras are just there for the player to have fun. With those weapons, people can be screwing around with the game, using Stealth Camo to get reactions from enemies, and so on.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on July 01, 2008, 08:18:47 pm
Beating the FROGS without killing them is super easy.  In the first part, let Meryl and the throwaway characters finish the fight (seriously WTF happened to those guys they had 4 lines in the entire game).  After that, crawl, play dead, and send the MK II out to stun all the FROGS.  They're too busy fighting Meryl to care about the MK II.

Quote
The extras are just there for the player to have fun. With those weapons, people can be screwing around with the game, using Stealth Camo to get reactions from enemies, and so on.

But for whatever stupid reason the game requires you to be a master to get the good stuff.  In MGS1, all you had to do was beat the game and they gave you an extra item (ugh, stealth camo for letting Meryl die THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CANON ENDING URGGG and Bandanna for rescuing her I think).  It was fun to replay the game with the extra item because there was an alternate ending and you had, you know, a badass item.

After that it went downhill with MGS2 introducing the retarded Dog Tags.  MGS3 was good because all you had to do was beat the game (or shoot all 20 kerotan frogs or whatever) and there were few extras that required you to go out of your way.  Resident Evil 4 gave you the Chicago Typewriter for beating the game on normal as well as Ada mode and a bunch of other stuff.  Why does MGS4 reward you for knowing the game inside and out when you honestly won't care to play through it again with the extra item????  Shouldn't the whole point behind a game destroying item be to actually use it?  If I know the exact patrol routes of every enemy I don't give a fuck that I now have stealth camo because I won't ever touch the game again.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 01, 2008, 08:25:37 pm
what i mean is that once you beat the game with NO ALERTS and beat it in THREE HOURS you probably played the game to death anyway. i get it's for FUN but it makes no sense to give the best gun in the game to the player after he masters the game because he is probably sick of it by then. what fun will you have using SUPER GUN when you can easily kill enemies anyway (not to mention you probably killed thousands to get all the stupid emblems).

also marcus just made a good post about what i am talking about. he posts in much greater detail as well.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: maladroithim on July 01, 2008, 08:47:30 pm
i refuse to play this game because from the first cutscene to killing the first enemy is 20 minutes, you don't have to play this game i mean there are like maybe 3 hours of playable content, some guy on youtube did it if you skip the cut scenes there are maybe 3 hours of playable content   like wtf is the point

Speedrun maybe?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 01, 2008, 09:23:17 pm
Why does MGS4 reward you for knowing the game inside and out when you honestly won't care to play through it again with the extra item????  Shouldn't the whole point behind a game destroying item be to actually use it?  If I know the exact patrol routes of every enemy I don't give a fuck that I now have stealth camo because I won't ever touch the game again.
So what if the player knows the game? Again, the stealth and bandana and other extras are just for fun, and with them you can take a different approach on the game. Sure, maybe it doesn't give the player 100x replay value, but they're extras.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 01, 2008, 09:31:20 pm
extras the person in question will not need though. do you really not see how kind of useless it is to fuck around with a stealth camo when you probably spent hours on hours on the game in question exploring everything without it? like in MGS, once you beat it you got a neat little thing that let you beat the game easier, but here you have to do a lot of stupid impossible shit that requires you to know the game intimately so whatever you get, it's pretty near worthless for replay!

oh cool i can hit a guy and he won't know too bad I memorized his routine entirely because I had to in order to get the stupid thing that lets me do this.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ragnar on July 01, 2008, 09:32:22 pm
personally I'd rather have some kind of new level or something
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on July 01, 2008, 10:07:12 pm
So what if the player knows the game? Again, the stealth and bandana and other extras are just for fun, and with them you can take a different approach on the game. Sure, maybe it doesn't give the player 100x replay value, but they're extras.
I replayed MGS1 twice a while back and I didn't remember how fucking hard the game is even on normal (maybe I just suck???) and there are some parts that are impossible to get through without proper WEAPONS, like the part where you climb the Comm Tower for the first time, if you are short on Famas and Socom bullets and have no stun nades you are going to die.

I had 4 rations (that was max rations at that point I think) and a fuckload of Famas and Socom bullets +few nades but I still almost died before reaching the top and halfway through I was out of Famas bullets so I switched to Socom but that is completely ineffective in that part of the game so my only chance was the stun nades but I only had like 4 so that didn't get me too far.

The other time when you climb the Tower there are the guncameras on the walls, there is no way to sneak past them so you need A) Chaffs or B) Stinger missiles. I'm not sure but I think the cannons knock you on the ground so you can't advance up if they are there and they do a LOT of damage so its like 6 hits and you are dead.

Some of the bosses were harder than I remembered too but in boss fights you constantly find more ammo so its no big deal, but on the parts that I mentioned +a few others you just need those nades and ammo and the Bandana is like an answer to my prayers.

So at least in MGS1 the bonus items were really useful and you got them without being a korean. But maybe MGS1 has more replay value than the others because you can run through it in a couple of hours (maybe even less?? It was a really short game) and it only has 2 or 3 long codec convos/cutscenes and it all actually makes some sense and is pretty good and interesting.

But I'd say going through the game with extreme precision and constantly being concerned whether or not you get discovered or kill someone by accident is a really bad way to make players unlock some items because after you've done all that you most likely don't want to see the game in the rest of your life.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 01, 2008, 11:19:48 pm
extras the person in question will not need though. do you really not see how kind of useless it is to fuck around with a stealth camo when you probably spent hours on hours on the game in question exploring everything without it?
Do you know  what you're talking about? You sound like getting stealth and bandana is as hard as killing a whale with your bare hands. Seriously, you don't need to know everything about the game in order to get them and in theory they can be acquired even on first playthrough IF the player does what he/she's supposed to do: sneaking. Ok, I'm pretty sure no one gets them on their first round with the game, but really, it's not that hard and time-consuming.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Christophomicus on July 01, 2008, 11:41:41 pm
But maybe MGS1 has more replay value than the others because you can run through it in a couple of hours (maybe even less?? It was a really short game) and it only has 2 or 3 long codec convos/cutscenes and it all actually makes some sense and is pretty good and interesting.

I was always under the impression that it was longer than MGS2 (this is not an attack on you, just a comment I'm making), and after beating MGS2 again the other day on Extreme or whatever in 2.5 hours, I sure hope so. :(

I mean, I wasn't even trying especially hard to speed run it!
(and granted I skipped all the cutscenes/codec calls, but still! 2 and a half hours!)
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 12:29:24 am
Do you know  what you're talking about? You sound like getting stealth and bandana is as hard as killing a whale with your bare hands. Seriously, you don't need to know everything about the game in order to get them and in theory they can be acquired even on first playthrough IF the player does what he/she's supposed to do: sneaking. Ok, I'm pretty sure no one gets them on their first round with the game, but really, it's not that hard and time-consuming.

...it's a pretty difficult task. you just casually said JUST DONT GET ANY ALERTS but uh that is impossible on the first go through and requires you to load multiple saves or just play the game over and over to achieve. it's a pretty lame gift for getting ridiculously good at the game.

seriously think about it, DO NOT GET ANY ALERTS for stealth and for the bandana, don't kill anyone. these are both very hard to do (the bandana less so, but still). it's a lot of effort for something that you ironically will have gotten good at without using (since the bandana would require you to tranq/stun everyone, and you don't pick up many non lethal weapons).

its basically the stupidest trend in videogames to reward people who work really hard with shit that makes the game easier because they are the last people who need it. give them, yeah, an extra level or something instead.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Supra Mairo on July 02, 2008, 08:57:57 am
I was always under the impression that it was longer than MGS2 (this is not an attack on you, just a comment I'm making), and after beating MGS2 again the other day on Extreme or whatever in 2.5 hours, I sure hope so. :(

I mean, I wasn't even trying especially hard to speed run it!
(and granted I skipped all the cutscenes/codec calls, but still! 2 and a half hours!)
I've only played through MGS2 once but MGS1 is like REALLY short.


*** LOL MGS 1 SPOILARS, GAMEPLAY IN A NUTSHELL ***

You can get to the DARPA Chief in like 10 minutes and after that its basically 1 Area -> Boss -> 1 Area -> Boss until the game ends. Seriously. After you defeat Ocelot, you need to take the elevator up and go out and then its the M1 Tank boss, then you go forward 1 area and shoot down the electrified floor system and proceed to the Ninja boss, then you go find Meryl on the floor above and go to face off Mantis, then you go throug the wolf place and backtrack to the sniper rifle so you can fight Wolf, then you get tortured, then you escape and theres the section which is kinda long without boss fights, the whole Comm Tower climb with guards zerging you from all sides and after that you climb down the wall with the Hind trying to kill you and then after a few more obstacles you face off the Hind. Hind goes down and so do you, via elevator, and face Wolf. Then you sneak past 1 area and face off Raven. Then you do the whole Temperature Card Key thing which was less tedious then I remembered. Then its Metal Gear, a punch out with Liquid and the car chase and there you are done.

*** LOL MGS 1 SPOILARS, GAMEPLAY IN A NUTSHELL ***


Basically there's 5 minutes worth of sneaking puzzles between the bosses which take like 2 minutes each depending on the difficulty though +2 backtracking trips.

I don't think MGS2 was this short.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Christophomicus on July 02, 2008, 09:25:34 am
Oh man, I'd forgotten it was that short. :(

Might replay it via Twin Snakes!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 02, 2008, 12:02:45 pm
...it's a pretty difficult task. you just casually said JUST DONT GET ANY ALERTS but uh that is impossible on the first go through and requires you to load multiple saves or just play the game over and over to achieve.
Yes, if you totally suck with the game. I don't think there's any gamer in the world who would have to play the game over dozens of times to get stealth and bandana. I beat Act 1 without killing anybody on Solid Normal on my first playthrough and got stealth on my third run through the game. You know this, but it's a sneaking game, and the player's given lots of tools to complete it without getting spotted. But I have to admit that Act 4 is a bitch especially on Big Boss Hard, but still not impossible.
Quote
(since the bandana would require you to tranq/stun everyone, and you don't pick up many non lethal weapons).
Why wouldn't the player pick up lethal weapons? They give you DP and don't slow Snake down, so what would be the point of not picking them up?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: big ass skelly on July 02, 2008, 12:26:54 pm
Yeah, any True Gamer could do this on the fourth of fifth playthrough easily
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on July 02, 2008, 12:40:27 pm
Bullshit Fujin. Getting no alerts is not that easy, either you are lying or then you beat the game on the easiest difficulty with loading a few times. Not getting is any kills is easy enough with tranquilizer though, only bosses will take a bit longer to beat.

I agree that it's retarded to give you a reward when you have basically mastered the game and have spent countless of hours on it already.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 02, 2008, 12:59:01 pm
Huh? :fogetshrug: I'm not lying. Getting 0 alerts on Solid Normal is far from impossible even if you don't know everything about the game. It takes patience and requires you to be careful, yes, but it's called challenge. Seriously, do you people just rush through the damn game?
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 02:48:19 pm
you admitted you played through the game three times dude that's a lot of effort once again for something you don't need and really can't get much of a kick out of.

unless you really do just love going HEHE THEY CANT SEE ME.

we don't rush through the game but implying that you absolutely have to stealth everything (in a game that lets you buy a shotgun) and then you're REALLY PLAYING is pretty ridiculous.

MGS1 was cool because you had an incentive to go back and play with that neat shit you got, the alternate ending. unless you're just REALLY FASCINATED by solar guns or whatver, no such incentive exists here.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 02:56:51 pm
fyi this eastern europe part where you follow the resistance dude was one of the most boring fucking parts in any videogame ever, no because it was hard but because he was so fucking slow and if you lost him (easy to do at points) you had to track down another one and it was pretty goddam awful, I don't know why it's in the game.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on July 02, 2008, 03:00:26 pm
Yeah man, I keep saying that act 3 pretty much sucked. I think the idea of finding Big Mama's base was kind of neat but they completely ruined it. They could have made you gather some information by listening to patrols and finding other clues (I'm sure they could have come up with some ideas) but what we got was seriously incredibly boring. Not only was it easy as hell but the dude you had to follow was so retarded, you could probably walk two meters behind him and he would not notice you.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 03:13:06 pm
okay yes admittedly this part sucked (still watching it) but the cinematic at the end rules, even if it was completely predictable.

although it's amazing no one in that entire army had a non-system registered handgun or something.

and now big boss is dead w00t guess we don't have to worry abut Foxdie anymore???

ahahaha and why did he yell otacon's name so angrily.

but yeah fuck this game has a lot of cinematics!!!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 02, 2008, 03:20:26 pm
Quote
we don't rush through the game but implying that you absolutely have to stealth everything (in a game that lets you buy a shotgun) and then you're REALLY PLAYING is pretty ridiculous.
I never said that. Yes, sneaking is supposed to be the point of the game (and you're rewarded for doing it), but as in all other MGS games, you can go through it just by killing everybody, and the player's given different weapons for variety.

Pointing out MGS1's alternate ending is ridiculous, though. It's stupid and useless, and I'm amazed if someone replays the game just for it.

I'm not going to bother anymore. If you really think getting stealth and bandana is that hard, fine. Just don't go saying it takes countless hours and knowing the game 100%  to get them, because that's bullshit. Going three times through a game that lasts way less than 8 hours excluding the cutscenes is hardly what I'd call a lot of effort.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 03:28:30 pm
keyword is excluding the cutscenes which fyi the first time through tends to really lengthen the game. so that's eight hours * 2 which is already 16 hours of gameplay, plus however long it takes for you to beat the original game and keeping in mind thats 8 + 8 hours of shit you've DONE BEFORE already so there's absolutely nothing new to experience.

fyi guy the point is the game became easy enough to go and see the alternate ending because of the reward you got, this being the crux of the whole the argument. and uh, yeah, quite a few people now had the incentive to do that. I can't believe you'd say playing a game for 16 hours to get a bandana is somehow more worthwhile than doing the same thing PLUS getting an alternate ending.

the reward here is PLAY THE GAME A BUNCH OF TIMES TO GAIN THE PRIVILEGE TO PLAY THE GAME AGAIN and it's pretty amusing that an alternate ending, plus that privelege, is "stupid and useless". think about it Tex!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 03:29:38 pm
also how much did apple pay for this shit, jesus christ. COLLECT IPODS and they all use macs. fuck.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 02, 2008, 10:01:09 pm
triple post, just beat the game. there was no big plot twist at the end! I thought someone said OTACON IS A PATRIOT, but uh that wasn't the case.

oh well, what a stupid game. I am glad I did not pay money for it (friend's copy) and I have no urge to play through it again. christ, the BEAUTIES all being the same rape victim side story, jesus. if I killed them, does Drebin say YOU SAVED THEM SNAKE, or what. because I'm seriously confused how tranqing someone in the head is psychotherapy on the level these women needed.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on July 02, 2008, 10:08:04 pm
triple post, just beat the game. there was no big plot twist at the end! I thought someone said OTACON IS A PATRIOT, but uh that wasn't the case.

that was me. it was just a typo i meant to say ocelot
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on July 03, 2008, 02:35:03 pm
We've known that since MGS2? Wasn't it inferred by the conversation with the pres at the end of MGS1???

I am a rabid fan of the MGS Series and I think this edition was just major fan service by Kojima. I enjoyed it all but I admit it doesn't have the uber replay value that people are harping on about. I normally have to leave a game about 10 years before I remember how good I thought it was then get let down when I replay it. Games like need for speed and platform games are an exception to this rule. And command and conquer :)

I think the biggest let down with this PS3 thing is that there are fuck all Ps1 games you can download. I want Crash Bandicoot 2! My dad just got a £50 free trial for LoveFilm (internet DVD rental thing) - also does games. I own MGS4, GTA4 and GT5:Prologue and I can't think of anything else I would want to play - anyone got any recommedations?

p.s. Steel I know you're angry man. So angry about MGS4 so so so so angry but do we have to have 100 million posts!? Whatever peace bro.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Grogrog on July 03, 2008, 06:11:52 pm
triple post, just beat the game. there was no big plot twist at the end! I thought someone said OTACON IS A PATRIOT, but uh that wasn't the case.

oh well, what a stupid game. I am glad I did not pay money for it (friend's copy) and I have no urge to play through it again. christ, the BEAUTIES all being the same rape victim side story, jesus. if I killed them, does Drebin say YOU SAVED THEM SNAKE, or what. because I'm seriously confused how tranqing someone in the head is psychotherapy on the level these women needed.

They die, I'm pretty sure. It's the same thing whether you tranq or kill them. You're saving them by freeing them from this world. They are so tormented nothing can stop them.

Dude stop bitching and learn to edit your posts. Apparently, as I said earlier, MGS isn't a game for you.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 03, 2008, 07:29:24 pm
yo that is the stupidest post ever, considering I've often stated I think MGS2 is the best game ever created and actually wrote a few papers on it for classes (about the postmodern aesthetic and metanarrative BOOSH). MGS1 was also a very competent game and one of the best in the series and while I still haven't played 3, I know the plot and have seen others playing it so.

this game is just not as good! the pacing is totally fucking off, and people just rehash shit you figured out a while ago. GZ raised some pretty valid claims earlier in the topic about plot issues that you really have to stretch to understand. or hell, look at your own example. THEY'RE DEAD. what? why? I tranquilized them! where did their bodies go? how come they all curl up in fetus positions and cry if they are dead? I also don't understand why they included the metanarrative characters for the second time, considering they did it very well in MGS2. just for no reason these bosses are modeled after the MGS1 bosses and you go back to Shadow Moses and everything but where that was a plot point in MGS2, it's just this throwaway LOOK, LOOK in this game.

and then this apple thing. what is that? COLLECT IPODS. why are we letting that kind of shit go? it was a totally unnecessary gimmick just to advertise fucking apple ipods in the game.

I guess that's not circlejerky enough for grogrog though, GOTTA LOVE THIS GAME, but I'm with panda; in a game made at least 50% from cinematics (and I'm certain it was more), these kind of issues really should have affected the scores across the board a little more. instead the game's got a 9 something everywhere.

so many stupid moments argh. I can't seriously remember the number of times I was on IRC saying JESUS CHRIST THIS IS A STUPID GAME.

seriously I could have fixed this game in five minutes with some pacing shit. did anyone really not understand Zero lost control of the AIs? I figured that out the second the AIs were mentioned as, you know, controlling everything. and then Big Boss is just alive for some reason and ugh. just so many pacing issues that could have been fixed. I'm playing Mass Effect now and that game knows how to do dialogue. the character tells you what you need to know, and if you want to know more or rehash something, you can choose it. here it's just SNAKE...THE PATRIOTS...THEY ARE SOMETHING!!!

whatever. I'm pretty wholely disappointed in the game and kind of surprised at the ITS STILL GOOD crowd here, considering how much worse it is than the previous games.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 03, 2008, 09:12:40 pm
The balance between cutscenes and gameplay is pretty screwed in this game. While in MGS2 you never really felt you were truly playing the game, MGS4 had some long gameplay parts with a few cutscenes, but the further you get, it turns upside down.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 03, 2008, 09:58:49 pm
yeah that was another thing. that was a REALLY CRAZY aesthetic decision by him that I'm not sure was worth it. like, this is the first game EVER I have actually sighed and said "well, today I will spend a long time on one game". I mean, we all do inevitably I think, but this is one where I knew I'd be wasting at least two hours if not more, BY NECESSITY. it wouldn't be because a boss stumped me but because of a CUTSCENE.

there were so many weird choices like that in the game. like, the very beginning being TV PROGRAMS, what was that? or when in the mission briefing, you can control the mark ii and pick up batteries and ipods. they aren't even BAD choices, but they are really strange and I think overall kind of hurt any justification you can have for the game being good, just because they are so bizarre and have little payoff (other than HIDEO HOW KINKY), where as something like the cheesy psycho mantis shit from MGS1 is just kind of HEH META.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ax_Dude on July 05, 2008, 09:28:27 am
Bullshit Fujin. Getting no alerts is not that easy, either you are lying or then you beat the game on the easiest difficulty with loading a few times. Not getting is any kills is easy enough with tranquilizer though, only bosses will take a bit longer to beat.

I agree that it's retarded to give you a reward when you have basically mastered the game and have spent countless of hours on it already.

I got Stealth and bandana my second playthrough.
Seriously. No Alerts is easy. The Hardest was ACT4 because you cant tranq robots and the gekko's seem to see you when chaf is going off.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 05, 2008, 12:59:57 pm
easy difficulty with loading quite a few times is right there in his description, dude.

and actually people might disagree with this but I found the normal difficulty here to be pretty easy, or was that just me (not as in NO ALERTS easy, but as in surviving/beating)? like I rarely, if ever, felt like OOOOOH SHIT, except when I really fucked up and here comes two geckos oh wait RAIL GUN.

like I went into that raging raven fight with only one ration and forgot that regain restores health and I still won (albeit barely), that's a little crazy.

also I just realized that entire act had no actual stealth!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Grogrog on July 05, 2008, 02:50:56 pm
easy difficulty with loading quite a few times is right there in his description, dude.

and actually people might disagree with this but I found the normal difficulty here to be pretty easy, or was that just me (not as in NO ALERTS easy, but as in surviving/beating)? like I rarely, if ever, felt like OOOOOH SHIT, except when I really fucked up and here comes two geckos oh wait RAIL GUN.

like I went into that raging raven fight with only one ration and forgot that regain restores health and I still won (albeit barely), that's a little crazy.

also I just realized that entire act had no actual stealth!

Wasn't the raging raven act the one where you followed that dude in England? Wasn't that pretty stealthy?

Also about the beauties dying even if you tranq them, I think Drebin mentioned that they can only supposedly live for a couple minutes outside of their suite. That's why if you stall the battle, it goes into that white place and it has a 3 minute countdown. I assume after that 3 minute countdown they probably die and you win, but I'm not sure.

I know what you're saying, the game definitely isn't as good as the others, and it does suffer from all the problems you mentioned, but I guess I really didn't care. I've always loved the metal gear solid series storyline, although I've never really taken it seriously, which made it easier to swallow what the game was spitting at me (yes I am swallowing spit).
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Artis Leon Ivey Jr on July 05, 2008, 02:58:31 pm
the europe stealth was way too easy and hard simultaneously. like it wasn't the normal stealth mission and you could walk REALLY REALLY CLOSE to the guy. conversely though if you lost him (this happened to me whenever I would enter a new area and suddenly he'd be somewhere else) it became a huge pain in the ass to find him again.

apparently this was psyburn's least favorite part of the game too...

also I feel bad, I thought I was saving them. I should have just shot them in the head...
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Marcus on July 05, 2008, 04:06:38 pm
I tranq'd them so I could get their face masks.  There's something humorous about seeing Snake dressed as a woman talking to people.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on July 05, 2008, 05:19:57 pm
I just re-bought MGS1 off ebay because some cheeky git made away with my discs (and I doubt they would've worked with Windows Pissta anyway) but here's hoping that the PS3's PS compatibility actually works with MGS. Otherwise I am posting them my turds.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: DS on July 05, 2008, 07:05:53 pm
I got Stealth and bandana my second playthrough.
Seriously. No Alerts is easy. The Hardest was ACT4 because you cant tranq robots and the gekko's seem to see you when chaf is going off.
you know ax dude one thing i have always wanted to ask is that why do you keep capitalizing random words, you have been doing this for years and it's just really weird.

other than thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat i suppose some of us are just inferior gamer's.......
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: randomuser83 on July 10, 2008, 12:29:10 am
It is now time to buy the PS3 because this game is finally out!
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ax_Dude on July 10, 2008, 10:24:04 am
you know ax dude one thing i have always wanted to ask is that why do you keep capitalizing random words, you have been doing this for years and it's just really weird.

other than thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat i suppose some of us are just inferior gamer's.......

I swear you've asked me it before, and i suppose its time i tell you the real reason. See as a Fun little side game i go through Ultimately every post i post, and i put hidden words in the letters in upper Case. Keeps You guessing, Or some may Unconsciously Decode Said posts and have this strange thought in their heads.



In all honesty i dont know, its a habit, like I'm Shift key trigger happy or something or i feel words need that Little extra emphasis or something. Who knows. Apparently i did it in English class too with written essays.

As for the inferior gamers, maybe, i seem to have a knack for gaming that wont go away even when i dont touch a console or pc for afew months, give me a half hour and i end up kicking everyones ass when someone pulls out a multiplayer game at a party. Or maybe its because i can hold my booze more than they can
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Zohaib on July 14, 2008, 05:08:57 am
Bought a PS3 for this as MGS remains the only series that I'm still attached to. Beat it the other day and feel a little disappointed. Probably because I had high expectations but also because the game, in my opinion, had a few too many flaws.

First of all the entire "Act" division of the game didn't work in my eyes. It didn't seam or flow too well as past MGS' and forced a very straight forward and linear approach to the entire game design.

The bosses were terrible - at least compared to what I've come to expect from past MGS Boss battles. Not to mention the stupid and repetitive back stories comprising the end of each. It felt like they just threw it in at the last second.

The story as a whole just wasn't good narrative. There was too much nonsense to be honest. The game could've ended soon after and would've been for the better. The epilogue with was just unbelievable. I couldn't believe Hideo threw that in. I mean come on! What kind of twist is that? Also the Patriots lost their aura. In MGS2 - they were portrayed as some eery, mysterious all knowing Gods Furthermore, the numerous and interesting Codec moments from past MGS games are close to nonexistent here.

And then the whole Drebin thing. Unlike past MGS, you no longer have to search for ammo or explore terrain to find new weapons but simply buy it from this gun launderer. Sorry but that's just not MGS.

Yes, this is still the best game I've played for some time but also the most disappointing. I don't play too many games but MGS is something I follow very closely. MGS4 has stellar visuals and art direction, sweet game play for the little that is present, and great cut-scenes but somehow doesn't feel quite like MGS...

 
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: pburn on July 14, 2008, 05:12:31 am
Zohaib you got everything spot on. This is exactly how myself and many others feel. Too bad metalgearsolid.org is cluttered with idiots who cried at the ending and call all the mods who say the game sucks elitist haters.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ragnar on July 14, 2008, 07:12:14 am
I wonder if it's because Kojima didn't intend to make MGS4... or if it's just like... he never really had it planned out anyway. Like I swear the guy who did the X-Files never had an ending thought up for the X-Files, and just set up all this massive shit like the way horror movie people build up the creature to be so scary - but in this case the Patriots were SO mysterious and like... it's so much easier to create an /air/ of mystery and significance than actually make good on it and make it something that fucking amazing once you see it (I'm sure there's a commentary on religion in there somewhere)

Edit: The show 24 kind of works this way too, they try to make this atmosphere like ANYTHING could happen, or anyone could be behind it all... 24 doesn't have a Patriots but it's been implied there's some mastermind who's going to string all the different plotlines together. But it would have to be someone we know about, really, someone who's already a character on the show - which is sort of like the Major Zero etc. dealie. Who could the Patriots be that would be really shocking - it couldn't just be THAT GUY, it would have to be a previous character in MGS, or aliens or it's all a videogame or maybe some historical people like Meta Abraham Lincoln
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on July 14, 2008, 07:38:16 am
it's both Ragnar. he never intended to make MGS4, MGS3 was supposed to be the last one, and he sorta didn't even intend to make that. He wanted it to stop at MGS1 which is a good reason why MGS2 is so CRAZY. And people still ate it up. He hasn't planned any of these games out since MGS1 basically, but he gets forced to make them because just like MGS4 people actually send him death threats and shit.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 16, 2008, 02:53:11 pm
He wanted it to stop at MGS1
Now that's some bullshit right there. If he wanted to stop it at that, why would he have left clues about a sequel at the end of the game? Even Solidus is mentioned.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ravey on July 16, 2008, 03:04:51 pm
MGS1 was probably left open so Konami could work on a sequel and he could work on a new game. Probably would've been better that way.

None of the games were meant to end the franchise, that's pretty much up to Konami.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on July 16, 2008, 05:34:24 pm
Now that's some bullshit right there. If he wanted to stop it at that, why would he have left clues about a sequel at the end of the game? Even Solidus is mentioned.

It was left open for a sequel, but he didn't want to work on it. He just doesn't want to be known as "the Metal Gear Solid guy", y'know? He worked on Zone of the Enders, but very little people know Snatcher or anything.

I don't know how you can question it's bullshit when MGS2 was like, made so people would hate it so he could move on, and yet people ate it up anyways.

Each game has progressively gotten worse, and people progressively eat it up more and more and send him more and more death threats and shit. Dude's life must suck bad.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Ryan on July 16, 2008, 05:37:59 pm
It was left open for a sequel, but he didn't want to work on it. He just doesn't want to be known as "the Metal Gear Solid guy", y'know? He worked on Zone of the Enders, but very little people know Snatcher or anything.

I don't know how you can question it's bullshit when MGS2 was like, made so people would hate it so he could move on, and yet people ate it up anyways.

Each game has progressively gotten worse, and people progressively eat it up more and more and send him more and more death threats and shit. Dude's life must suck bad.

barring MGS4 how can you really say the games have gotten progressively worse?

2, 3 and 4 all have faaaaaaar superior gameplay than 1. 4 probably being the best gameplay. 2 has a pretty crazy story but it's still pretty entertaining and is certainly not bad! 3 has a really good, straightforward story and probably the best ending in the series.

and i don't really think mgs2 was made so people would hate it.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: HL on July 16, 2008, 05:41:05 pm
Gameplay wise, yes.
Storywise, no.

They all have well told stories, but they all get progressively less in touch with reality, which is probably the point, but it's still not very good tbh. At least coming from MGS1, anyways.

And I'm pretty sure Kojima knew Raiden was going to piss people off on purpose. And adding all the wacked out shit.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Fujin on July 16, 2008, 05:48:50 pm
It was left open for a sequel, but he didn't want to work on it.
Well first you said he wanted it to stop. Anyway I'd like to see a source where he says he didn't want to work on the series anymore after MGS1, because I find that hard to believe.
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: GZ on July 16, 2008, 09:09:18 pm
i didn't hear that he wanted to stop after MGS1 myself, but i am almost positive he said this after MGS2. he said he wanted the series to continue but he didn't want to be the one directing it. i recall there being a JAMES BOND reference, he compared it to something like that (how there are different bond movies by various directors).
Title: The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)
Post by: Carrion Crow on July 22, 2008, 10:10:26 am
The intro to Snake Eater is enough to make any die hard James Bond fan cringe. Kojima was blatantly watching one of the old James Bond intros and thought man time to eat some juicy solid snakes: