Gaming World Forums
General Category => Entertainment and Media => Topic started by: Crim on June 18, 2008, 08:24:59 pm
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After two days of yelling at Mass Effect for being so damn bad, I finally got bored of watching Niko Bellic die. No way was I planning to throw in Halo 3 (usless without LIVe, which I don't have.) I ended up throwing in the good old Fable, since I pictured myself playing Mass Effect forever, hence my purchasing of only 3 games with the 360.
So I ended up playing Fable for quite a while, and i was doing a mission naked for the sake of a few more renown. Low and behold, my character was naked. Now in fable if you strip down for missions or just for kicks, you will see the English flag on trhe back of blue breifs, well detailed and drawn to look very realistic. But with the old disc, I guess, my nameless hero was mysteriously changed. The blue underwear was... sawed off. And a Ken doll smooth spot was added, along with a rather vauge but still visible... crack.
After a few minutes here and there it eventually changed back and forth. I thought it was a 360 bonus at first. Then the hairs on his ehad vanished for a second. Also his eyes were solid yellow-green for some time, until I turned off the console.
Anyone else get this reaction?
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heh now that's what i call a dirty disc error
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HOT GRUEL
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After two days of yelling at Mass Effect for being so damn bad
I guess I'm not the only one who hated Mass Effect!
uh but yeah I dunno anything about Fable on 360 but it sounds like it's just an emulation glitch or something.
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how do you hate mass effect.
that game is so good!!
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yeah, even if you DO NOT LIKE IT A LOT i think it's pretty hilarious to hate it. like, there's pretty much zero justification for saying it is an AWFUL GAME when at the very least it is probably just mediocre/okay.
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what is more hilarious is hating mass effect
and liking fable
not that they have alot in common but...
fable.
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I got Mass Effect (and virtually nothing else) with the idea of being able to play through the story, and then venture through the galaxy, and probably never need to buy another 360 game until fable 2 or Force Unleashed came out. Little did I know that after 8 days and 11 hours of gameplay, I would have beaten the so called "Fable in space" with out much effort.
And as much as I would enjoy playing through those FOUR missions again with a "completely" different character, I don't feeling like watching the screen blink as I sell the 70000000 augmentations in that game.
The average RPG has 40 hours of gameplay.
The average non-RPG has 30.
Mass Effect, well, If I didn't play through those stupid sidequests like "get back black guys dead wife" then I could have beaten in in like... 9 hours.
And yes, I did like it, for the most part. and after playing GTAIV first, I did enjoy the gangster feeling of the first mission on the citadel. running around, shooting up a club, stopping some thugs from shanking Tali (only interesting character in the game), but seriously.
I spent those eight days engulfed in a great universe, putting aside sidequests, which I was saving for later. Little did I know that everytime I relode my file, I'll see Seren's geth form again and again and again.
And there are achievements that you Can earn by keeping each individual party member for the majority of the game. Well not only is beating the game not regarded as majority in any way, but I never saw a chance to kill Tali or Garrus or.... blue chick. So I beat the "majority" and technically earned like 9 Achievements that I never got.
I had more fun playing the geometry wars demo.
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So I ended up playing Fable for quite a while, and i was doing a mission naked for the sake of a few more renown. Low and behold, my character was naked.
This is probably caused by your unrequited love
for gays
god you are such a fag
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I got Mass Effect (and virtually nothing else) with the idea of being able to play through the story, and then venture through the galaxy, and probably never need to buy another 360 game until fable 2 or Force Unleashed came out. Little did I know that after 8 days and 11 hours of gameplay, I would have beaten the so called "Fable in space" with out much effort.
And as much as I would enjoy playing through those FOUR missions again with a "completely" different character, I don't feeling like watching the screen blink as I sell the 70000000 augmentations in that game.
The average RPG has 40 hours of gameplay.
The average non-RPG has 30.
Mass Effect, well, If I didn't play through those stupid sidequests like "get back black guys dead wife" then I could have beaten in in like... 9 hours.
And yes, I did like it, for the most part. and after playing GTAIV first, I did enjoy the gangster feeling of the first mission on the citadel. running around, shooting up a club, stopping some thugs from shanking Tali (only interesting character in the game), but seriously.
I spent those eight days engulfed in a great universe, putting aside sidequests, which I was saving for later. Little did I know that everytime I relode my file, I'll see Seren's geth form again and again and again.
And there are achievements that you Can earn by keeping each individual party member for the majority of the game. Well not only is beating the game not regarded as majority in any way, but I never saw a chance to kill Tali or Garrus or.... blue chick. So I beat the "majority" and technically earned like 9 Achievements that I never got.
I had more fun playing the geometry wars demo.
this would be a legit complaint if the sidequests in mass effect weren't pretty substantial compared to most other games, including fable (ESPECIALLY fable). first of all, i RUSHED and beat the game in like 18, so if you beat it in 11, you REALLY fucking blew through it and i imagine did the absolute bare amount of content needed to complete the game, which is silly because most of the sidequests are more or less of the same level of quality as the main story. but here's the funny thing: you act like you expected this to be some huge, expansive game, which it is, and yet you are complaining. what did you expect? EVERY rpg like this, the ones that keep you busy for a long time, don't do so with a ridiculously long main quest; they do it with a main quest and then a bunch of optional content.
i'm honestly not even sure what you're complaining about. you say it was a TERRIBLE GAME when it's clearly not, you say it's too short when it's not short at all and you just chose to skip the majority of the content. it's funny, because games like fable are comprised primarily of stupid, mindless sidequests; they have a main story which is relatively brief and then there's other shit to do too, which takes up more time. this is exactly what mass effect is, except the main story is longer, and the sidequests are more substantial. i don't really know how you can say HEH FABLE IS GREAT and then dismiss mass effect when it uses the EXACT SAME MODEL, only better.
i'd have an easier time forming an argument if your post made sense, but honestly it is really meandering and i'm not even especially sure what you're talking about to begin with. having played the game, it is EXACTLY what you said you wanted to do in the first sentence of your post, word for word. just because it's technically possible to rush through the game, doing absolutely none of the surprisingly decent optional content, doesn't mean it's a good idea or that you can complain if you do, especially if you clearly wanted the game to be a longer, more expansive, exploratory experience. i don't understand why, wanting the things you say you wanted, you chose to play the game the way you did when you easily could've gotten what you wanted out of it by taking your time and doing optional shit.
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ps nobody in their right mind called it "fable in space" because fable fucking blows and no one would want to be associated with such a flop.
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Fine, let me make a normal argument.
1. I'm not gay.
2. THe reason i'm mad is because I beat it fast. By skipping the sidequests, some of them. But waht really grinds my gears is that I can't continue playing with the same character in the SAME universe and thus complete the sidequests that I purposly put aside for that time. So yes, this game was waht I expected, more or less, but once I beat the main story, I wanted to continue, not start over and do those same four missions and those same side quests.
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hasn't like every game bioshock has ever made been like this??? i don't know how you didn't see it coming. anyone who is smart just keeps multiple saves of a game so they can go back and do stuff after they beat it anyway. i don't remember perfectly but i'm pretty sure you could still wander around the galaxy doing stuff right up until you got to the final encounter almost, so there's no reason you wouldn't just maintain a late-game save before you got to the point where you can't leave the giant space station anymore
but yeah what an awful game
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Well ym friends are shit. "Fable in space" they said. "Oblivion on Hoth!"
Fuck them.
Yes, every game ever made has been like that. Escept fable. and oblivion. Plus, if you did not get the main point of my frustration, this was my first 360 purchase, so the only thing I know about Bioshock is probably a lie.
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plus it says "open-ended"
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oh, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to type bioshock. i meant hasn't ever game BIOWARE ever made been like this.
also it IS open-ended. not as open-ended as oblivion or anything but there are degrees to these things.
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.... anyway... I found a funny glitch yesterday. The end.
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hey i liked fable... :-(
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It was fun. still is, especially after being cheated by BioWARE and your friends.
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Fable 2 looks pretty crazy and with that co-op option in it I think it with the ability to own your own town or destroy a town, buy shops, shit like that I'm looking forward to the second, now I just gotta buy a 360 to play it on.
I never got into the whole "Best RPG ever created" hype before it's release but I thought it was alright.
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since it's been mentioned i am going to throw in my two cents about MASS EFFECT. i am pretty much of the opinion any game that gets good mainstream reviews is at worst a decent game, and that's what mass effect was. here is THE DEAL:
me and my brother both played this game, and both of us beat it in 11 hours or under and neither of us made any effort to rush through it. clearly we did not do many sidequests at all but this is because they were terrible. mass effect nearly had the worst side quests in any game i have ever seen, mostly because every planet you go to looks like a random terrian generation, and the quests themselves are KILL GUY or even worse. one of the sidequests i recall was a planet with 100 monkeys on and you had to search each monkey to find a KEY or some bullshit.
the renegade / paragon system did nothing at all. if you compare it to biowares previous games, like KOTOR, they at least made the light side and dark side have a FEW differences. none of this was to be found at all in this game. in addition, mass effect trumpted how your choices actually meant something, but per usual this was bullshit. it was almost comical how they would work in your decision (into dialog, your choices never had any kind of lasting effect minus the two killing chances in the game) maybe once in the game and that's it.
the dialog choices were terrible and this was the KEY feature in this game. i saw some parts from when my brother played, and i asked him about certain parts, and the differences between GOOD AND EVIL are very few. i also got a dialog choice in the game between OK / ALRIGHT / FINE because i was being a dick and the game ended up forcing me to do the main plot stuff. which makes me wonder why they even have this possibility if it ends up in a non-choice.
as mentioned you get 7 billion items in the game. what's funny about this is that there are maybe 50 BASE ITEMS but they have 90 levels of each item for a game that is maybe, MAX, 40 hours if you waste your time with the garbage content. the interfaces were terrible, and your characters leveled up every 5 seconds. i would say easily most mass effect players spend 10% of their time in the interfaces because they make you equip / level-up so often and they are hard to use. for instance, you will find a better item than something you have every 5 minutes. halfway through the game i didn't even bother anymore because it was getting retarded scrolling through all the items to get PLUS 2 TO DAMAGE.
they make you choose your character class AT THE START OF THE GAME. this is so ridiculous, because you have no idea how the game works. my brother happened to pick one of the worst classes in the game and there is no way you can change this. i wouldn't mind if they made you generally choose what you are, but if you pick some classes all you can use is shit like PISTOLS and GARBAGE abilites.
p.s. the battle system was also garbage because your team mates were retarded and it required little to no strategy.
mass effect had an incredible amount of flaws in the game, and i can't imagine you could actually play the entire game content having fun the whole time given how broken so many of the systems are. this said it is nice you can cut most of the bullshit in the game, but then it ends up being a very short game. i account most of mass effects success to being a 360 exclusive, and them desperately needing a good title at the time.
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how do you hate mass effect.
well for one my character can survive a shotgun shot to the torso but not a bug barely touching him. actually that was my main problem with it (well that and even with autosave turned on it almost never actually autosaved) as afterwards I was so disgusted at how stupid it was that I quit playing it for a long time. eventually I went back and played through most of the rest of it and still wasn't too impressed. it seemed like it might be okay before then, even if the interface was total shit and the vehicle controls were awful, but that was just ridiculous. also the bulk of the game was "look at robots to get experience" and "run between people for an hour to talk a lot". also it seemed to me that any class without combat as one of it's specialties was basically screwed by the latter half of the game. but I found using biotics to be really tedious and they jsut weren't really useful at all even if they were fun to look at the first 3 times (hey look ragdoll physics in an rpg GREATEST GAME EVER) so I ended up almost never using them (I wish I had just picked the soldier class even though at the time it seemed really boring).
yeah I ended up typing a lot more than I intended but I guess mass effect just ISN'T FOR ME.
and for the record, Mr. L, I don't like Fable either.
edit: hi GZ typing a shitload more than me in less the time than it took me to write this. now I feel like I totally wasted my time (well, more than I did before) but whatever. in any case i agree with what GZ said about pretty much all of it. :]
SO HEY ANYONE SLEEP WITH A GUY IN FABLE I KNOW I DID :fogetlaugh:
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Thank you both for implamenting my statements and clearing out waht I left out.
It was space. The least they could do is have like... weapons. Even a lightsaber knock off or a stright up needler. I got tired of using the same 4 weapons like, hours before I even started Mass Effect. Cus they are in GTAIV, among other things. That is a 'real' game. So a realistic game has more weapons than a sci fi game.
I guess they made up for it in thier 900000 augmentations. not.
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I hated Fable. Everyone was raving about it, and within an hour and a half I was bored shitless and had no motivation to finish the game.
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hey gz i disagree! i think the positive thing about the sidequests in the game was that in most games, they are just THINGS TO DO and do not really contribute anything whatsoever beyond being timesinks. i've seen a lot of people (even you, i think) talk about LIVING BREATHING LIBERTY CITY and it is sort of a bunch of bullshit because all of the npcs except the 1% you directly interact with are lifeless husks who just do pre-programmed shit like SWEAR WHEN YOU WALK PAST. the thing that i liked about the presence of sidequests in mass effect is that they added some level of believability/dimension to the world around you. they helped it seem like an actual world or whatever and not just a setting for the main story filled with a bunch of mannequins.
i didn't do nearly all of them because i just didn't feel like it but the ones i did seemed like they were more than GO HERE, KILL THIS GUY. i mean, that was essentially what they were, but ignoring the reasons you did it and that for generic npcs, the quest givers could be surprisingly fleshed out as characters, is taking it out of context. you're the same person who called gta 4 a GREAT GAME or w/e and that is also pretty much solely "go here, kill this guy", so i don't understand how you can consider it one-dimensional in mass effect's case, but not gta's, because in both cases the saving grace is pretty much WHY you are doing it. gta 4 is better at it because the characters are better and you give more of a shit, but it's essentially the same thing.
i'm not going to bother arguing about the renegade/paragon thing because i also think that shit are just silly, vague attempts at being nonlinear sandbox shit, and i agree it's pretty obnoxious and half-assed. i liked the dialogue, though. i mean, i wasn't sitting there being like FUUUUCK YEAAAAH but you calling it horrible or whatever is definitely a gross overstatement, i feel. most of the time it is just INDIFFERENT which as far as games go is pretty alright. the thing that i enjoyed about it was precisely that they didn't just make the choices good/bad/worse, because i actually really hate that kind of shit. your character never feels like he is a convincing mirror of yourself or, really, any human at all, because no one would say shit like "heh.... kiss you're ass goodbye >)) *cuts throat steals spacecreds*".
i think you're looking at it from a perspective that assumes that the ultimate purpose was for the game to make you feel like your choices would make you good or evil, but i think the real goal was to just make your character seem like a more convincing person for the player, which is probably why you were given various dialogue options, often none of which are especially good or evil, that ultimately have no effect on things. they want the thing to happen, but they want you to choose how you accept it, and i think this is alright. i can't really blame you because there's shit like PARAGON/RENEGADE and other stuff that implies the game is supposed to be open-ended in letting you decide whether your character is good or evil, but that isn't what i got out of it. i could see you saying that the dialogue choices weren't necessary and didn't add anything to the game, and should've been replaced with just regular dialogue, and i would probably agree, but i think the choices for the dialogue itself were decent, especially the part where you just chose the general gist of what you wanted to say. it seems like a step in the right direction in realizing that players are not GOOD/EVIL 99% of the time so having choices that reflect that is dumb.
there were a lot of items but idk i just scrapped the large majority of them right off the bat so no big deal i guess! i don't think the battle system was garbage, and i don't even really understand what you are comparing it to. what level of strategy did you expect? it is pretty basic TAKE COVER, SHOOT GUYS FROM COVER stuff, but what shooters are you playing that aren't like this? there was as much an element of strategy to having to take good cover to avoid dying as there is to pretty much all shooters i play (maybe i am not playing ones that are complex enough idk). the cover system worked pretty well with the environments, especially stretching outdoor ones, and the target system was functional. also, there were actually decent differences between the weapons themselves, which i think made up for the fact that there were only like four types (i prefer this to fps with a ton of weapons that all basically function the game-- also who gives a fuck about the weapons in gta 4 because i beat the game and rarely felt compelled to use anything other than a rocket launcher and assault rifle/uzi) and even though i am PRETTY HARD ON PARTY AI i didn't have a huge problem with my teammates in the game. they were kind of dumb and not good at taking cover and half the time they would just fire at no one for a long time and weird stuff like that, but they rarely, if ever, IMPEDED progression, or needed babysitting, which is more than i can say for most other games. again i am finding many similarities between it and the battle system in gta 4, which relies on BATTLE as part of the fundamental experience more than ME does, and yet you did not seem to have many problems with that!
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also man idk i didn't find it that hard to choose a decent class. i forgot what i chose but TO BE HONEST all these games that make you choose classes use a pretty similar set of archetypes so i don't really understand how anyone could find it that difficult/complicated to choose a good one.
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afaik every single bioware game ever (every single game ever??) has you choose your class at the beginning.
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this... means war.
actually i think GTA4 was a very shallow game, however i did say it was a good game (keyword: game) solely because of production values. the story and characters were mostly garbage in GTA4 so i am not going to defend it at all. you are probably confusing me with someone else. my point is this, so much effort went into the game, even though it had a lot of problems, it did a lot right in terms of gameplay and had a lot of variety. gta4 was very mucha KILL GUY game but it had a lot more elements than mass effect did, so the game was much more fun. either way you slice it, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a lot of fun playing GTA4 for at least 10 hours, with a considerable amount of people playing 30-40 hours to beat the game. compared to something like mass effect which i felt was a very medicore 15 hour experience (i am highballing the play time because apparently beating it in 11 hours is not common) to play the main plot.
you yourself said you did not play many sidequests, another thing you don't realise is that the mission set-up was very lazy. sometime planets would have a BUILDING where you needed to download codes or some bullshit for the quest. however many missions had this same idea, GO IN BUILDING GET CODES. as i was saying, my brother also played the game and when i did some random sidequest, my brother told me he went in a building exactly like that on another planet for a sidequest. this did not surprise me at all because planets use shit like RANDOM TERRIAN, so i was not shocked they would use the same building over and over again. here's my point: don't make 90 planets if all the sidequests are lazy and generally not very fun.
in terms of fleshing out the world, they did do that, but i thought mass effect had a bad story. they never went very deep into it, and this game was basically a set-up for the MASS EFFECT EPIC SERIES. so i did not care much for what people had to say, because i was not impressed at all with how characters and the story worked.
about the dialog, did you play as a GOOD GUY or EVIL GUY? because as a good guy most of the dialog fleshes out reasonably, but as a bad guy it's terrible. you really need to play this game twice to see how bad it is in this regard. i could tell people HEY SCREW YOU and they act the same as if i told them ALRIGHT PAL. basically they shouldn't allow you to have polar opposite dialog choices when the result is the same, because that makes no sense at all. i basically felt as if i was a retarded moneky trying to get my character to say / do things that he never ended up doing, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 times in the entire game. playing as an evil guy i could be a dick to people and they acted as if we had a regular conversation, minus a reaction immediately after i said BAD THINGS.
i totally disagree with your weapon conclusion, they all felt the same to me. i think the ENERGY BAR / UNIVERSAL AMMO played a big part in this, but any gun i used felt the exact same. the lack of weapons was also bad, especially considering sniper rifles were worthless and most MAGICK classes could only use pistols.
about the battle system, mass effect failed to be on par with standard shooters in terms of combat even though this is what they were aiming for. it's not acceptable to have a battle system that 95% comprises of SHOOT GUY in an rpg, so i don't know how you could find this enjoyable. it was also very basic, where you aimed on the enemy didn't matter at all and the enemy AI itself was not good at all. in comparison to GTA4 (i do not even think this is that great of a game!), that had driving, better on foot shooting, and more variety in the missions than mass effect which was a straight up GO SHOOT GUYS the entire game.
about the class thing, you don't know how the game works so you assume maybe BIOTICS will be good or something like this. also about most bioware games making you choose a class, this is true however they let you significantly alter your character as the game goes on. refer to KOTOR or any of the D&D games to see what i mean (multi-class, many skills, feats, etc). the balance was also not very good, i felt magic users in mass effect were bad while weapon users had a clear advantage. so my brother choose a magic / biotic guy who could only use pistols and the whole game he was just shooting guys with pistols and using a spell every 5 minutes.
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also man idk i didn't find it that hard to choose a decent class. i forgot what i chose but TO BE HONEST all these games that make you choose classes use a pretty similar set of archetypes so i don't really understand how anyone could find it that difficult/complicated to choose a good one.
because in most games spells don't suck as hard as biotics and motherfuck gz beat me to it again
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also for the record, i don't think anyone who likes mass effect is GAY or anything, but if you have played a reasonable amount of RPGs or good games in the genre i think you would be very underwhelmed by it much like i was. i am pretty sure if someone never played an RPG before they could probably have a ton of fun with mass effect, but if you look at the big picture, it does nothing special beyond graphics, which is a stupid thing to pride a game on (CUSTOM FACE SYSTEM).
cool edit: that's another thing, any great game needs something to differentiate it from THE PACK and mass effect has nothing like this. even good games need some kind of identity and i felt the only thing mass effect had going for it was the setting, but as i said i was not too interested in how they decided to do things.
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yeah, but how many of the sidequests are LIKE THAT? "go to planet x and get my shit/codes". i barely played any like that, and that's not to say that there aren't any, just that i don't think nearly all of them are like that. most of the ones i did involved going to some other planet i already had to go to to find out some shit about someone, not any FINDING OF CODES. maybe i just steered clear of the really bad ones but yeah, my experience with them wasn't all that bad! i only went to a planet like once for one, and the rest of the time it was voluntary exploration on my part. on that note i don't really think complaining about buggy controls is especially valid, given how little of your time you spend in one, and how most of the time you just have to drive in a straight line. what i really liked was being able to go to a random planet and just find a body with a journal on it in the middle of fucking nowhere; that kind of stuff is really cool to me.
also, i played as a good guy and i might never have chosen any of the EVIL options, because that's not really my style, so maybe that's where the disparity between our experiences is coming from too. i agree the story is generic SCIFI EPIC but idk, i guess i didn't expect much more than trashy popcorn epic to begin with, so that's not a big deal. i thought most of the supporting cast was lame but there were a few decent characters, and in general most are MUCH BETTER than standard rpg fare, and there were also parts where your main character would be pretty good too. all in all i didn't especially give a shit either, but that doesn't change the intent of the sidequests, i don't think! one thing that stands out as being lame was that ridiculous choice between WHO DIES. i really got the feeling like this was supposed to be one of the shining dramatic moments in the game, and it was honestly so predictable and the characters so uninteresting that i didn't give a shit at all.
but i mean, weapons differed on the most basic of levels. i didn't find the sniper rifle useless at all and in fact looked for opportunities to use it, the shotgun was great for short range, and i switched to the assault rifle or whatever for longer range stuff. the weapons all have pretty distinct functions, albeit fairly uninspired ones (i.e. sniper rifle for STEALTH shit, shotgun for powerful short range attacks, assault rifle for long range and general attacks, pistol if you can't use anything better). i never used any magic except cure/shield or whatever, but i saw my party mates doing some pretty cool shit from time to time. i agree it was a lacking system if you were trying to use it as your main offense for your own character. what shooters are you playing where the guns feel more different than this? i play shit that people rave about and with few exceptions the guns usually feel almost completely identical, and like 95% of the games with huge lists of weapons don't bother making any but a few of them interesting or desirable. i don't think having to find different types of ammo would've done anything but annoy me.
you're looking at the combat as if the game is an rpg, but i think it's important to note that it really isn't, beyond HIT POINTS. it's more than an action game than anything, and idk what "standard shooters" it is supposed to be on par with but most action games i play are right around this boring! AIMING is virtually nonexistent in games that let you target, outside of sniping. i could see you saying that it got OLD after a while, but that's how i feel about all action games. gta had variety, but the cover system is clunky and lacking, and i felt like they utilized environment/level design a bit more when working out mass effect's combat. yeah there was driving and getting blowjobs and i appreciate the variety, but i think i could make the same basic complaint about like every action game where by 5 hours in you're like "so this is all there is huh?"! even god of war, which people love, suffers from that shit. don't get me wrong, god of war has much better action than mass effect, but it doesn't stop it from having the same issues. i also don't think gta missions had more variety, because those FELT like you were being sent on fetch quests and other stupid shit. the sidequests in mass effect at least weren't like "______ GO DO THIS" and "OKAY BYE" with not much added on (at least, not in my experience they weren't).
like i had the difficulty on a pretty decent level, so it wasn't just TAKE COVER, SHOOT, GO BACK TO COVER. i took quite a bit of damage and had to regularly switch cover and i'd have like four enemies coming and i'd have to switch to the shotgun and etc etc. it was pretty decent for what it was! i can't think of very many action hybrid games that have had combat as good as it. were you playing it on a low difficulty setting? i could see it being uninteresting if that were the case, because the repetition would definitely have a chance to sink in without some amount of challenge/danger/demand to actually move around and use different weapons and adapt present. i guess i agree that mass effect would've benefited from more variety, but very few games wouldn't!
also like ryan said every game ever makes you choose your class in the beginning. i feel like i was able to alter my character a pretty good deal as the game progressed in mass effect, but it's been a while so i could be off base. i can't really argue that the class system was ideal, though, because it's not!
and i mean HEH IF YOUVE PLAYED GOOD RPGS what games are you even talking about man? i hope it is not going to be some shit about FALLOUT because seriously either the game was never particularly good, or it has just aged horribly, because i have honestly never been SO BORED, SO QUICKLY with a system of gameplay (especially combat).
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DOUBLEPOST again but okay i think it should be clarified that i don't think mass effect is a great game and i was actually pretty bored by it (could be because i had this big five day vacation from work and i got sick the first day and basically spent the entire time PLAYING MASS EFFECT and feeling like shit), i just would say it is of above average quality. so really it seems kind of silly to argue over it even though we are not really ARGUING so much as talking about it when you say it is decent and i say it is PRETTY OKAY/GOOD. it probably seems like i disagree with you on the quality of the game, but really i only disagree about the quality/implementation of the systems! you seem oddly down on them for saying it was a decent game.
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when i was playing i had at least 6 quests i didn't do in my log book that all involved going to a randomly generated planet and killing people. clearly i didn't DO the quest, but it was quite direct in saying KILL GUY. given what the rest of the game was like i cannot imagine there was anything special on these planets, because every planet was the exact same random generation formula. also i didn't have a problem with the controls (you are probably not directing this at me), although i think the vehicles didn't handle well it isn't worth complaining over as you have said.
about the main story, i wasn't really trying to make a link between that and the side quests. more or less i was saying i am not impressed at all with anything they did and disliked a lot of the parts. essentially i felt the sidequests were manufactured in the most lazy way possible just to add GAME LENGTH. you yourself don't seem to care too much for the story, so i don't really need to elaborate further there.
i actually wasn't comparing mass effect to RPG battle systems:
about the battle system, mass effect failed to be on par with standard shooters in terms of combat even though this is what they were aiming for.
i guess i could have been more descriptive on standard shooter though. i essentially mean a third person action game or certain FPS games. mostly the problems mass effect had was a lack of body specific damage (ie. headshots mean something), intelligent scenarios (level design, enemy set-up), effective biotics / abilites, and balance. the cover system i didn't think was done well either, i never used it myself and had very few problems in combat. also i am pretty sure it was on normal or the default setting. gta4 had terrible mission variety, but given it had the different gameplay elements it was better than what mass effect offered. i am not a big GTA fan! however i think anyone who owns ps3 or xbox should at least rent / play the game because it's among the best on the system and has a lot of stuff to do (regardless of quality, which ranges from good to bad).
given everything you have said, and even though ratings are pretty stupid, what would you rate mass effect? i would give it something in the area of 6. i think everything in the game was around average except the graphics.
mass effect felt very generic to me and any game like this i wouldn't really speak highly of. also i never got the impression you think this is the greatest game ever, and i am being a lot more descriptive in my BASHING simply because a lot of people seem to think this game is AMAZING which i have no idea how someone could come upon this conclusion. so it doesn't seem like we are worlds apart, but when a game is generally regarded as GREAT i am going to go into detail as to why it isn't. otherwise i wouldn't do a very good job at getting the point across.
about GOOD RPGS / SYSTEMS, i more or less merge games together to come upon conclusions. fallout 2 did a good job when it came to creating a world and having choices that matter, but i'll admit the combat wasn't very good. however if you look at some of the older bioware D&D games (ie. baldurs gate) they had pretty good combat. if you want to talk about shooters, i'd day something like how perfect dark had it's systems, but that had a terrible story. i didn't address this, but if you would like to see a game that did a good job on weapons, i would say go look at perfect dark or half life 2.
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yeah that controls thing was addressed at whoever said SHIT VEHICLES which they were but w/e
i'm surprised you didn't use the cover though! i seriously just DIED QUICKLY without it so idk what's up with that. this seems like sort of a difference in opinion as i think the level design/progression is decent, as was the balance/cover system, so i don't really wanna press it, but i agree with the rest more or less. HEADSHOTS weren't such a big deal to me but i guess it would've been nice. that would've required a very different aiming system though and i'm not sure how that would've played out.
also probably a 7. i felt it was a pretty solid game and when i think six i think more of like... games that are JUST BARELY worth playing with shit 5 and below being stuff i intentionally avoid, and i felt that ME ended up being a relatively enjoyable, if mindless, experience! i don't really understand why people say AMAZING either but i strongly suspect it is because it is like a scifi channel original series in videogame form and if you just think about that you will understand the appeal for giant nerds with no taste.
to be completely honest you're probably right about fallout 2 in that respect; i never got more than 2-3 hours into it before i literally never wanted to play it ever again. it was OFFENSIVELY boring to me. i might check out baldur's gate because i never played it and all bioware pc rpgs (nwn etc) bore the shit out of me so i assumed it'd be more generic STUDDED LEATHER ARMOR high fantasy pc rpg shit. also i never beat hl2 but aside from the gravity gun the weapons really DID feel the same to me, so i dunno about that! it's been years since i played it so feel free to CORRECT but yeah, that's how i remember it. anyway, most if not all of these games did certain things right at the cost of doing other things very very wrong (probably not hl2 but all the others for sure), so i'm not sure how fair it is to cite them as examples BETTER GAMES when they're really only better in a single respect. i mean the same "well x did this better than that one game, and y did this better too, etc" argument could be said for pretty much all games that kind of break genre conventions. its story isn't as good as fallout's, and its combat isn't as good as baldur's gate, but its combat is better than fallout's, and its story is better than baldur's gate, so idk i'm not sure you can really say it is clearly underwhelming in comparison to any of those games except for half life, because it is almost universally BETTER in some other respects and it seems like it kinda evens out.
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well i don't think highly of very many games, so i don't think it's unreasonable to get different aspects of games to point out why a certain thing aspect in a game isn't that great. i don't really make an imaginary game up with all this good stuff, i am just doing comparisons from other games to make a point. so even though something like fallout 2 had a worse battle system than mass effect, i would play fallout 2 over mass effect because i felt overall it was a better game. i am not surprised you may have found fallout uninteresting, there's the whole age factor (it didn't bother me, bt at the same time i won't even look at ps1 games any more) and because it is one of the most non-linear games out there you could easily get a WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO feeling. also baldurs gate (i am talking about baldurs gate 2) IS a D&D game, but i felt of all the D&D stuff they released it had the best combat bar none. the story is pretty interesting, and has a lot of interesting quests and characters, but it IS fantasy stuff. so your results may vary.
anyway we really don't disagree too much so there is very little left to say.
"let us go out and buy milkshake" - hommer simpson
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Personally I found the biotic(i could pretty much take 3 people, at least, out of the fight as soon as it starts) and engineer(removing shields, screwing up weapons and hacking geth made fights, espically geth fights a lot easier) skills extremely useful in ME(my pistol was mostly used for clean up/ waiting for powers to recharge), of course started out as the Sentinel so i kinda had to. If anything my only complaint was that i couldn't use them often enough(i had to use a lot of -cool down time equipment) and it'd be nice if there were more to chose from. I pretty much agree with Headphonics on this(except the part about fallout). Also GZ, I find a lot of people on Gfaqs and shit weren't to impressed by ME(and have a lot of the same complaints as you), and they really only compare it to other Bioware(and Black Isle) games.
As for Fable, like most high profile open ended RPGs, I was highly anticipating it, but unlike most(except Oblivion) I found myself hugely let down by the final product, though i was still able to enjoy it some what(unlike Oblivion). It also reminds me why i hate Action RPG's(except SoM, but i'm just gonna say thats probably largely due to nostalgia), they are always seriously lacking in combat(including ME), they always seem to think that they have to toned it way down compared to something like DMC or NG(in both difficultly and the way it plays in general) to make it more stat focused(because its an rpg and it must be all about stats!) and i'm stuck button mashing my way to the end. Have some real action or make a (good) turn-based game, pick a side! Well I guess Rise of the Argonauts is looking alright so far so maybe i should start looking forward to that.
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I was gonna play Mass Effect. Then my 360 got nerfed by my roommates and they fucked up my TV and I only got ability to play 360 again when GTA4 came out so needless to say I haven't really played alot of Mass Effect (just fucking around in the first city).
If the rest of the game is like the beginning though, like the opening resque shit and the first city then idk if I'm gonna keep playing it. It kind of reminds me of KOTOR IN SPACE (if only KOTOR wasnt in space already). Seriously, the beginning of Mass Effect bores me to no end so PLEASE someone reply and tell me it gets better 'cause I am expecting grrrrreat stuff from that game.
also why are so many people hating fable :(
its a pretty cool 'n simple game yo i dont see no reason to be h8n'
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It really does get a whole lot better. I found the beginning pretty dull and horrible too, but about an hour, maybe an hour and a half in, it gets pretty enjoyable.