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General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Niitaka on June 20, 2008, 05:51:24 am

Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Niitaka on June 20, 2008, 05:51:24 am
http://gizmodo.com/5018156/confirmed-phoenix-finds-ice-on-mars

So as Phoenix was digging, it knocked off a few ice particles, which have since melted. This is good news though, because that means we're getting closer to hitting a studyable patch of ice.

What do y'all think?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Aten on June 20, 2008, 06:53:24 am
Niiiiice. SO this means theres water on mars? (possibly) This is cool
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Niitaka on June 20, 2008, 07:02:30 am
well, we've always known that there was ice on mars. polar ice caps etc, but now we're getting close to studying them for signs of life.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: AzureFenrir on June 20, 2008, 07:15:56 am
This is good news though, because that means we're getting closer to hitting a studyable patch of ice.
I shall eagerly await this day :fogetsmile:​.  I just hope that eventually studying a patch Martian ice will lead to a discovery, though, beyond that of just "the presence of ice."
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: HL on June 20, 2008, 03:50:04 pm
This is exciting.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: UPRC on June 20, 2008, 04:00:03 pm
It feels really weird being excited over the possibility of bacteria living on Mars or something, but I am.. Go figure.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Christophomicus on June 20, 2008, 06:00:35 pm
This is absolutely fascinating, for no real reason. It's just like we're on the edge of this huge discovery, you know?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: fatty on June 20, 2008, 06:06:51 pm
I really hope we are close to having a topic titled "And Phoenix finds self-replicating molecules on Mars".
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: YourHero on June 20, 2008, 08:20:58 pm
YESSSSS now we can go start colonies there! :D
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: fatty on June 20, 2008, 10:39:14 pm
YESSSSS now we can go start colonies there! :D
Yes, I am sure that the microbes would apreciate it!
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: cowardknower on June 20, 2008, 10:51:06 pm
i can see it now NO MARS COLONIES!  YOU ARE INFRINGING ON THE LOCAL WILDLIFE (microbes)
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: datamanc3r on June 21, 2008, 05:05:34 am
How do we know it's ice and not any other frozen substance?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: The Truth on June 21, 2008, 05:11:12 am
How do we know it's ice and not any other frozen substance?

this

the frozen caps aren't even ice from my understanding
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Mama Luigi on June 21, 2008, 05:27:16 am
I thought this wasn't exciting because we have already observed ice on Mars (and strong evidence of water???). Of course, theorizing the possibility and actually unearthing some (water, that is) are rather different things.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Hundley on June 21, 2008, 11:13:03 am
this means that

Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Aten on June 21, 2008, 12:12:38 pm
hey f*** you hundley

i was browsing at 2 am in the morning with the lights off and then i suddenly see that picture. Completely fucked me for a few seconds.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: FF Fanatic on June 21, 2008, 05:24:28 pm
it could be frozen methane, f its methane, then lets make ice cubes made out of farts.  :fogetmmh:
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Jayce on June 21, 2008, 06:09:51 pm
hey f*** you hundley

i was browsing at 2 am in the morning with the lights off and then i suddenly see that picture. Completely fucked me for a few seconds.

I'm sorry but it's now 2am here and I can't help but point that out...
I don't get why you ***'d it...


Back to the topic, taking into account that comets are also made up of ice and what-not, who's to say that there's no life existing on them, how did the comet originally begin to exist, simply put; the existence of water/ice on mars could be no more than the remains of previous comet sights...
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Farren on June 21, 2008, 06:20:35 pm
I thought in order for something to freeze it had to have at least a little water in it right? Or am I wrong because I don't know anything about space shit.

And I know that EVERYTHING is supposed to have a freezing and boiling temp but I thought it had to at least have a minuscule bit of water in order to do so.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Jayce on June 21, 2008, 07:41:33 pm
Regardless...

Water != Existence of Life...


Also Dry Ice FRZ(CO2) doesn't have water in it, does it?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Farren on June 21, 2008, 07:54:32 pm
no I guess it doesn't

I didn't think about that though, figured that it would be ice in liquid form and not gaseous and hopefully it isn't because that would suck.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Terin on June 22, 2008, 03:59:20 am
Very simply it could be a solid form of any gas.

Hopefully it is actually water-water.  If it is, then it'll lead to easier colonization by us.  If not, then we'll have something new to study (and who's to say that life can't live off of a liquid methane or something -- not SUPER likely, but... who knows?).  We'll find a lot more stuff out as we keep learning/studying/experimenting/exploring!

--Terin
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: datamanc3r on June 22, 2008, 06:21:00 am
It's better if they don't find life at all. That way, we could probably fuck around with the planet itself (damn environmentalists couldn't do a thing). With all that CO2, we could plant some trees. Well, probably not because of the obscene temperatures.

I wonder if there's a way to mechanically engineer oxygen from carbon dioxide. We could shoot huge-ass monoliths into mars that could do this. It'd be pretty cool if we could. Then there's got to be a way to transport hydrogen up there (is there enough?) so that we could make some water ourselves.

Wait fuck we can probably MAKE hydrogen because it doesn't have many electrons. Hm..
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: crone_lover720 on June 22, 2008, 07:11:52 am
the question is, what would sublimate at mars' temperature?? of course there's no information on this in the article, but I assume there's a little credibility to the claim that it could be ice
this

the frozen caps aren't even ice from my understanding
yeah I'm pretty sure they aren't, that's what I've always heard/why this would be a significant discovery

I thought in order for something to freeze it had to have at least a little water in it right? Or am I wrong because I don't know anything about space shit.

And I know that EVERYTHING is supposed to have a freezing and boiling temp but I thought it had to at least have a minuscule bit of water in order to do so.
nope :(

eg elements are pure (no water)
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Ryan on June 22, 2008, 01:12:59 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/06/22/scinasa122.xml

well, according to this there is water on mars!

it's kind of early and i'm tired, but i searched around and tons of sources say there is water on mars, however few give very many specifics or how they know that.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Jayce on June 22, 2008, 02:09:51 pm
In theory mars could be in its "ice age", suggesting that perhaps it too was once like earth...
But hey, until large expanses of frozen water are found (ie: an OCEAN under the dust), trace amounts aren't really that great of a discovery, considering what I mentioned earlier...

Also Ryan: I want Dapp... :(
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Lord Kamina on June 22, 2008, 02:56:18 pm
YESSSSS now we can go start colonies there! :D

Actually Mars is a really shitty place to colonize... It has nothing going for it aside from distance, which admittedly is pretty important at this point.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: datamanc3r on June 22, 2008, 06:11:17 pm
Apparently ice can sublimate at around 15 degrees Celsius if the air is dry enough. And I'd imagine that mars' air is pretty dry.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/watercyclesublimation.html

But then again, mars gets pretty cold at night, and perhaps the air turned into ice (deposition). Shortly afterward, a dust storm could have kicked in and buried it. Could have been dry ice. But then again, you'd think that dry ice wouldn't last that long out in a mars day -- it would have sublimated far more quickly than water. I wish we had more information, like the time it took for this material to fully sublimate, as well as the sublimation temperatures of carbon dioxide and water. Also, temperature of mars would be pretty good.

Interesting @ Ryan's article.
"The chunks of bright white ice were exposed on June 15 but by June 19 they had begun to vaporise." That's a pretty long time. Is mars actually cold?

EDIT: Oh hey! ice @ caps.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0213_030213_marspoles.html
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Terin on June 22, 2008, 06:41:20 pm
Actually Mars is a really shitty place to colonize... It has nothing going for it aside from distance, which admittedly is pretty important at this point.

This is by far the most ignorant comment I've read.  One of my Astrophysics professors in college was working with Nasa on plans to do terraformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_terraformation

But basically in a nutshell:

Mars has ice on the caps.  That's known.  What we could do is put algae on the ice caps, which would start to take the water/ice and decompose it into an atmosphere.  As that's going on, the atmosphere is forming, the ice will also melt and make some parts of Mars fertile enough for trees.  Even if not, get something that requires little water (i.e. cactus/weeds) and plant them so that they can start converting CO2 -> breathable air.  If we sent algae today, it'd take about 500 years for Mars to be inhabitable and breathable without needing anything.  Today, we could technically be on the surface with an oxygen mask if we were in one of the gorges, so we'd be shielded from UV rays.

Mind you, this is HIS theory and mostly hearsay.  The article talks about actually making more use of CO2 -- which also makes a lot of sense.

--Terin
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: alfungo on June 22, 2008, 06:54:35 pm
Mars is too small to keep a strong enough atmosphere for anything more than the simplest introduced life. Also it's not as well protected as Earth magnetically so solar winds and lesser gravity would mean always fighting a losing battle. The pressure is so low in comparison with earth, instantly lethal to living tissue, plus it's distance is another problem in terms of climate.
It would always be more trouble than it's worth attempting anything approaching terraforming. If that's even possible.

However, I've been following the Phoenix mission closely, because it is quite exciting for me. I'd like to see a base there eventually and any signs of life would be very important if discovered. Especially when you think that we have no reason to believe that life exists anywhere else in the universe.
If you do believe that, then it's more like religion because it needs faith! SO DON'T GO BASHING RELIGIOUS MANS! Of course, any discovery would give us good ammunition against religion (though they's probably worm their way around that one too).
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Frisky SKeleton on June 22, 2008, 10:31:13 pm
this is pretty cool but before we colonise mars i'd like to see a moon base. just a small one so we can say we did.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Dale Gobbler on June 23, 2008, 12:55:28 am
I want to know what would happen if they found "life" on Mars. What effect would that discovery have on the scientific community and the public? If there's life on Mars, then that means Earth isn't that unique, and there could be aliens on other planets, etc.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Ryan on June 23, 2008, 01:19:46 am
This is by far the most ignorant comment I've read.  One of my Astrophysics professors in college was working with Nasa on plans to do terraformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_terraformation

But basically in a nutshell:

Mars has ice on the caps.  That's known.  What we could do is put algae on the ice caps, which would start to take the water/ice and decompose it into an atmosphere.  As that's going on, the atmosphere is forming, the ice will also melt and make some parts of Mars fertile enough for trees.  Even if not, get something that requires little water (i.e. cactus/weeds) and plant them so that they can start converting CO2 -> breathable air.  If we sent algae today, it'd take about 500 years for Mars to be inhabitable and breathable without needing anything.  Today, we could technically be on the surface with an oxygen mask if we were in one of the gorges, so we'd be shielded from UV rays.

Mind you, this is HIS theory and mostly hearsay.  The article talks about actually making more use of CO2 -- which also makes a lot of sense.

--Terin

i find terraforming hugely interesting. the only problem with terraforming Mars I believe is the lack of a strong magnetosphere.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Kaempfer on June 23, 2008, 01:54:13 am
Those images of Mars turning into a habitable world are pretty awesome, and they really make me wonder what it would look like if a reverse process happened on Earth (all the plants dying and the water freezing into gorges near the poles) and what the surface of the Earth would look like all rusty. I bet there'd be some pretty awesome impact craters under the sea!
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Doktormartini on June 23, 2008, 09:10:04 pm
I said this in another topic like years ago regarding this subject and someone agreed with me.  Everyone says you need water for life, but how do we know that there aren't some sort of space creatures that do not require water to survive? 
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Damug on June 23, 2008, 09:15:05 pm
The idea of even the slight possibility of life (even smaller forms) exisitng outside our planets just boggles my mind. Just to imagine that maybe one day we could move outside of earth for a chance at intergalactic living.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Kaworu on June 23, 2008, 09:27:20 pm
I'm a big follower of potential extraterrestrial life, Mars is generally seen as dead, but other solar bodies such as Europa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon)#Possible_extraterrestrial_life) and Titan[/url are seen as the most likely candidates. But the continued interest in Mars is really great and I'm loving that we're having a rush for Mars similar to that of the space-race aimed for the moon.
Yeah finding ice on Mars is regardless a pretty big thing because it's confirmed and we can kinda assume Mars could possibly have some bacterial lifeforms. Which is science-shatteringly important to find out, and I hope next year's space mission (Mars Science Laboratory) brings us closer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)#Prebiotic_conditions_and_possible_life)
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: YourHero on June 24, 2008, 07:17:30 pm
before we consider LIVING on mars... maybe we should look into GETTING to mars....
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Kaworu on June 27, 2008, 05:41:08 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7477310.stm

Fuck man I really REALLY hope they put some asparagus seeds in the next lander. Like jesus without natural competition and Mars' winds that shit could grow like wildfire.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Ryan on June 27, 2008, 05:43:41 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7477310.stm

Fuck man I really REALLY hope they put some asparagus seeds in the next lander. Like jesus without natural competition and Mars' winds that shit could grow like wildfire.

yeah, but they won't. mainly because it would contaminate the Martian soil. they want to be sure they have thoroughly scanned it for it's own potential life before adding Earth's!
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Kaworu on June 27, 2008, 06:00:47 pm
fuck scientists
let's build our own rocket without them knowing, secretly launch it then a year latter tap them on the shoulder like "hey bub, looks like there's some life on Mars afterall, heh"
man I'm excited. Who of you guys'll help me with this?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: HL on August 01, 2008, 04:58:15 am
Hey so update, they weren't absolutely sure it was Ice I guess, but they are 100% sure now and have found water:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080731/sc_nm/space_mars_dc

Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: jamie on August 01, 2008, 10:30:39 am
this is a pretty big shift in paradigms for this guy (me). they are talking about areas which could be habitable on mars now huh. i mean, of course i severely doub there are cos who wants to get their hopes up but it's pretty cool that mars is not just a dead rock now.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Kaworu on August 01, 2008, 10:43:12 am
I read this last night, it's really cool, it'll take about a month to analyse all the data from this sample, and see if there is evidence of organic components...
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Fatboys #4 on August 01, 2008, 11:04:35 am
strong dust storms and a weak magnetic field doesn't exactly make it the most habitable place in the universe. fuck that. i'd rather be part of the 2nd lunar expedition. i'm pretty stoked on it. apparently you can make water out of lunar dust and then there's the whole helium 3 thing.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Boulvae on August 01, 2008, 03:51:42 pm
We have dust storms too, it's called a sand storm 'round these parts. Those dust storms are natural so understanding the wind patterns of mars would be benificial on reducing the risks of running into one all the time.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: datamanc3r on August 04, 2008, 06:45:12 am
Pretty damn awesome!

That being true, wouldn't life have been feasible at one point? There was something about Mars being Earth-like (that is, it even held the same distance away from the sun as the earth does). Finding life would be pretty big.

How does the magnetic field work? I'm currently reading through an E+M textbook for kicks, and it explained that we have one due to a heavily iron-filled core. Interestingly, the field force of magnetism here pretty much dwarfs the force of gravity, but there is another force to equalize that, so we only have gravity. Fun stuff. Anyways, how does that factor in sustaining life on Mars?
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: goldenratio on August 04, 2008, 07:07:10 pm
it found poop now: http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/nasas-next-small-step-may-be-into-martian-manure/2008/08/04/1217701947632.html
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Frisky SKeleton on August 04, 2008, 08:44:27 pm
Quote
NASA has said little about the claims, although it has used the social networking site Twitter to downplay the reports.

Be the first to hear NASA updates! Exclusively here at the Habbo Hotel!
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Warped655 on August 05, 2008, 01:31:43 am
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1hvRUNc9W-3lupLU6TLQtR0gdRAD92BQ7K00

just read this... kind of a bummer.
Title: And Phoenix finds ice on Mars
Post by: Boulvae on August 05, 2008, 03:33:58 pm
Dude it says that the chemical is a natural and man-made around here. Does that mean nature made that chemical by itself alone? Could it be that sentient life lived there if nature didn't by itself? Proof that Earth is gonna end up like Mars?

Interesting none the less, cause if some of it IS alien-made that nature didn't make all on it's own then that may have already answered one of our questions.

Plus it's fun to look a little more optimistic with space travel, I don't want to kill my sci-fi fantasies.