It's not a sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is what genders you sexually attracted to. Children are not a gender, they have a gender but there is no gender called Children.
Pedophilia is a Paraphilia - "a condition in which a human's sexual arousal and gratification depends upon fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme, is "distinguished by a preoccupation with the object or behavior to the point of being dependent on that object or behavior for sexual gratification," and dependent upon the individual acting on said urges "with a non-consenting person or the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”.
I think hes saying that homosexuality USED to be considered a paraphilia as well and now its an orientation. Our buddy bravo is trying to make the case that pedophilia and homosexuality should BOTH be considered orientations.
I think that the one thing everyone can agree upon is that it is a despicable practice that deserves absolutely no form of encouragement from anyone. It is something that is not socially acceptable under any circumstances and is punishable by law for very good reason.By the way, I'm sure everyone knows this, but there's a difference between being a pedophile and acting upon the urge. Whenever this topic comes up, people are all too eager to speak their mind about how we should persecute pedophiles, but we kind of know those things by now. It's much more interesting to just set aside that discussion for a while and discuss the actual disorder.
I think ASE should reply here since he's probably the only one with an educated answer.haha what??? I don't recall ever being GW's resident neurologist or mental disorder specialist! Perhaps you are confusing me with 4DSheep or maybe Lord Kamina (or whatever Chilean it was that has a bio degree).
Is there really a big difference between "fetish" and "sexual orientation"? Isn't the latter just an euphemism of the former because it is relatively much more common, wide spread and accepted?
Ah, so pedophilia isn't a fetish either? I just used the wrong term in the post? What would the right term be? I thought fetish just meant, something someone sees as sexual that isnt typically by most people, not something as specific as "OBJECT OR PART OF BODY"
Harbouring those types of thoughts are not healthy as it will only increase your chance of try putting those thoughts into practice. What's the point of thinking something you could never practice?Man, this is like saying that all fiction writers EXPECT to be able to fly/develop magical powers/time travel/etc. Of course it's possible to think of things without acting upon them. Hate to draw a darker analogy, but it's not like everyone who has had murderous thoughts (and this is, like, most people) will actually end up killing someone. Just because I've imagined stealing something doesn't mean that I will. It's self-restraint, rationality, and common sense that keeps people from doing things they'll regret. I imagine closet pedophiles understand this just as well as we understand it, and avoid committing sexual crimes just as we avoid committing regular crimes.
EDIT: I partially agree with this.Hidden content (Click to reveal)Well, there are those pedophiles that don't act on their desires, or otherwise find healthier outlets to them (drawing, writing, etc). I still find it a bit creepy, but I don't think that those "pedos" should be killed/are not people/etc. They, at least, have the common sense and self-control required for them to refrain from acting. If anything, they could get counseling for that kind of thing, if they wanted. Not all pedophiles can be thrown into the same category as child molesters.
Man, this is like saying that all fiction writers EXPECT to be able to fly/develop magical powers/time travel/etc. Of course it's possible to think of things without acting upon them. Hate to draw a darker analogy, but it's not like everyone who has had murderous thoughts (and this is, like, most people) will actually end up killing someone. Just because I've imagined stealing something doesn't mean that I will. It's self-restraint, rationality, and common sense that keeps people from doing things they'll regret. I imagine closet pedophiles understand this just as well as we understand it, and avoid committing sexual crimes just as we avoid committing regular crimes.
pedos are fucking sick and should be pounded into the ground, not a fake post, hope this helps.
Okay but now just read my post replacing instances of the term fetish by paraphilia I guess? Is it still UTTER NONSENSE, or are there real fundamental differences between an orientation and a paraphilia, other than MAGNITUDE?
SO our discussion right now is like arguing about SHOULD APPLES BE CONSIDERED A VEGETABLE? IE its pointless because the term is not vague in any way and the categories are based on simple boundaries that no amount of opinion or point of view will change?
haha what??? I don't recall ever being GW's resident neurologist or mental disorder specialist! Perhaps you are confusing me with 4DSheep or maybe Lord Kamina (or whatever Chilean it was that has a bio degree).No, but you're one of the few who's studying biology. You gave me those vodcasts, remember?
Odaxelagnia: sexual arousal associated with biting or being bittenthis is actually really common. especially in females, and so is scratching and choking (i mean not to the point where you can't breathe just like slight pressure on the throat).
Sexual orientation is something that is developed over time. It's not something that BAM! you just get it one day when you're four years old and now all of a sudden you're cool to go out and have consensual sex with someone 24 years older than you.
of course, no scientist would ever touch the subject because of society's negative views. would you give up your morality in an attempt to study something that could possibly be cured?This is actually partly what I was talking about before. Although a lot of study is being done, it certainly does matter that nobody wants to touch the subject. That's because every single time the subject is even mentioned, people start talking about how much they'd like to hurt and harass pedophiles. This topic's the same.
I don't blame anyone for wanting to pound pedophiles into the ground, but at the end of the day, that doesn't solve a thing.
It's not a sexual orientation.okay so maybe not orientation, my bad, I just thought the quote was pretty good so I felt like using it. I think fetish is the right word for this then.
Sexual orientation is what genders you sexually attracted to. Children are not a gender, they have a gender but there is no gender called Children.
Ugh. Pedophilia is considered wrong because children are A) not physically developed B ) not world wise/intelligent enough/etc to make decisions for themselves in many respects. They can't give informed consent because most kids just aren't at a place mentally where they could really BE informed.Sorry not a troll post. And my case is that because its wrong doesn't automatically make it a disorder. It can be illegal, but that doesn't make the pedophiles clinically disturbed people.
I don't think people being attracted to kids is wrong. I find the idea pretty weird and hard to relate too, but i guess it's just something people have.Yeah this. I find it to be basically descrimination when you just immediately call these people insane or evil.
However, it's when people act on their feelings for children that things start getting out of hand (for the reasons listed above).
When someone constantly feels driven to do something awful (IE kill someone or whatever), its still considered a mental disorder isn't it?yes I suppose it is, but there's a difference between having an attraction and RAPING CHILDREN 24/7!
Not true if that is his case, homosexuality has basically always been considered a sexual orientation because...well...it's what a sexual orientation is. It's just been considered a wrong/terrible/sinful orientation because people are stupid. If anyone considered it a paraphilia then they are dumb. The main reason why homosexuality can't be a paraphilia is because homosexuality is not based around a non-consenting person (that is just rape if a guy has sex with a non-consenting guy) and the urges/fantasies/behaviors do not cause distress or interpersonal difficulty with the other person involved (unless if it is rape).Ah, very good point. I've learned a lil something. So it is different than pedophilia then. Good point, however it was still being discriminated against, which is kind of what the pedophilia situation is now.
pedos are fucking sick and should be pounded into the ground, not a fake post, hope this helps.good job fucknut
Pedophilia should be considered a disorder if you disregard the semantic psychobabble and approach things from a more pragmatic point of view. I think that the one thing everyone can agree upon is that it is a despicable practice that deserves absolutely no form of encouragement from anyone. It is something that is not socially acceptable under any circumstances and is punishable by law for very good reason. Therefore, why not treat it as a disorder?Lets say that I look at black people from a pragmatic point of view (yes I'm comparing pedos and blacks now!). I can see that a lot of blacks are responsible for rape and thefts, primarily in the inner cities. Those actions are not socially acceptable and are also punishable by law...and yet it would be completely racist and discriminatory to take all the blacks from the areas in question and confine them to prisons or keep them under guard and on record IN CASE they commit a crime. So the point of this comparison which i'm sure will end up offending people is this: replace black with pedo and that's pretty much how we are treating the pedophiles.
The one thing that I think is utterly ridiculous about this thread is the idea that pedophilia should be accepted as a sexual orientation. I don't know what your personal definition of that phrase is and it doesn't really matter in the first place, but society warming up to the idea of child RAPE (i.e. pedophilia) would have lots of negative repercussions that are a bit too depraved to even mention.Fair enough, and its ture i am wrong on this point. Sexual orientation isn't right, its more like "fetish".
You'd say, from some point of view, that since homosexuality and pedophilia both deal with sexual preference, they're likely to stem from a similar source, but I don't think that's the case. But it probably will take a while before we figure that out because of how difficult it is to accurately analyze the brain's function.True. In fact I'm pretty sure that all fetishes and orientations or whathaveyou (in the end I'm talking about what it is you want to fuck) come from the same place in the end. It deals with the same area I'm guessing even though the origins of the fetish/orientation must be different.
With pedophilia, there is a universally non-subjective agreement that sexually abusing, hurting, or imagining the abuse of children under the age of consent is disgusting, selfish, and unhealthy.its kind of subjective...
but yeah i have no idea how you can call it a universally non-subjective agreement because it really isnt.yeah this
Given that children aren't physically or mentally fully developed to any degree and they're not fit to give consent, pedophilia is fucking terrible.
the end
pedophiles aren't people.good job having an intelligent discussion guys
I see that what you mean is, the WRONG part of pedophilia is the RAPE part, not the fetish paraphilia in itself, because while raping someone is a conscious choice from the rapist to do something despicable to an unwilling victim, the URGE to do it brought by the unfortunate fetish paraphilia in itself is not a choice, just like how homosexuality or having any kind of sexual fetish paraphilia or preference or taste are not choices. Where there is no choice, there cannot be "right" or "wrong". I understand that.yes this is what I'm talking about entirely. you make a good point though about the euphemism part...its still a fetish anyway you look at it, the action is just a crime. my issue is calling it a disorder
Man, what? Sexual orientation does not mean the same thing as fetish. Are you serious?Yeah so sorry to be confusing. I didn't mean accepting it as an orientation my bad.
Ah, so pedophilia isn't a fetish either? I just used the wrong term in the post? What would the right term be? I thought fetish just meant, something someone sees as sexual that isnt typically by most people, not something as specific as "OBJECT OR PART OF BODY"No my argument is that it IS a fetish.
While I agree that pedophilia is disgusting and wrong and that Bravo you are INSANE . . .Oh yeah thanks bud.
Not all countries have the same age of sexual consent. I have always wondered if countries like France (I think) are filled with pedophiles? Cultural differences on sexuality are pretty interesting I think!
But holy shit wanting to have sex with young boys or underdeveloped girls without boobs etc is pretty gross.
Pedophilia in the sense of actually raping kids is not a mental disorder and should not be viewed as such.wait what?
A ton of paraphilia's are illegal cause a shit ton of them involve non-consenting people (pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, Frotteurism, etc) , the rest because they harm another person (if done non-consensually). There are fetishes that are basically "safe" things of Paraphilia.So difference is paraphilia is illegal while fetish is legal?
fyi the best thing about this topic so far is the "(Jerry Seinfeld voic​" in the title because every time i read it i get to do the jerry seinfeld voice and how can that just not make a man smile.Yeah clever right?
buuuut, man sets what is considered "normal." homosexuality was just as abnormal as necrophilia until recently. both "conditions" exist solely in the mind, they exist at birth but usually don't trigger until a certain age, and they can't be cured. no tests have proven so, but people who suppress their urges often become mentally damaged (usually through anxiety or some sort of trauma).Yeah this is what's pissing me off basically is that the majority gets to decide what is right. I mean, obviously it is the best way to live, because we can't have 1 man happy while 5.99 billion are miserable, but it annoys me that the minority is discriminated against for having something which makes them different. there's no fixing this really, but the way I view the world has made me hate hypocrites and those who discriminate. and anyone who isn't racist, sexist, or homophobic and still hates pedophiles fits under both. I really won't be comfortable until either I am proven wrong, or pedophilia is no longer considered to be a disorder.
So difference is paraphilia is illegal while fetish is legal?
An example of that would be BDSM. There is a paraphilia for wanting people to hurt you (Sexual Masochism), and if you engage in this activity with a non-consenting adult, it is a paraphilia and is illegal. However, some people enjoy BDSM with consenting partners and use a secret word, and as such that is a fetish (also called Sexual Masochism) and that is legal because no one is really "getting hurt" since consenting people are doing it.By the definittions given above, it can never be considered a fetish because its not "objects" which turn you on, its basically "fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavoir that is atypical and extreme". it being legal means that it is called a fetish though? The difference in the end isn't that big if legal/illegal is the issue.
Pedophilia in the sense of actually raping kids is not a mental disorder and should not be viewed as such. EDIT: It's something much worse.Holy fuck what. I forgot what I was going to say and said something completely different along the way, sorry.
Lets say that I look at black people from a pragmatic point of view (yes I'm comparing pedos and blacks now!). I can see that a lot of blacks are responsible for rape and thefts, primarily in the inner cities. Those actions are not socially acceptable and are also punishable by law...and yet it would be completely racist and discriminatory to take all the blacks from the areas in question and confine them to prisons or keep them under guard and on record IN CASE they commit a crime.