Wait. They are attacking the UN now?
man, fuck israel.
It's as if months of diplomacy was thrown out the window in an attempt by Israel to flaunt its might one last time before we get a new team in office that may have less of a tolerance for this kind of shit.
Does anyone else find it a little convenient that this whole thing got started and continues without any sort of real intervention during a major transitional phase for the government of the United States? It's as if months of diplomacy was thrown out the window in an attempt by Israel to flaunt its might one last time before we get a new team in office that may have less of a tolerance for this kind of shit.
People in the United States also have to consider how this looks to other Arab countries in the world and whether or not it will effect our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unnecessary displays of power with acute disregard for human life in any sense of the word are exactly what gives these people a reason to fight us.
There are also reports now of rocket fire from Lebanon....Man, I really hope this doesn't turn into an even bigger debacle while the UN people sit on their hands and wait for consensus. HEY LETS WATCH ISRAEL GO RETARD STRONG AND DISSOLVE TWO BORDER COUNTRIES WITH LAZERS AND VOTE ON IT AFTER THE FACT.
A UN truck was hit by an Israeli tank and the driver was killed just minutes before a coordinated three-hour ceasefire so UN people could get aid to civilians and, you know, get the children who were staying by the side of their dead mothers to safety.
Dont care if I get warned for this: Fuck arabs. The end.
What I don't get is how you all seem to think Israel is the ONLY one doing bad stuff here. I can't fathom how you people cannot see that BOTH sides are just as fucked up as the other.
Dont care if I get warned for this: Fuck arabs. The end.
How about we ban you both for a day so you can "chillax"
I'm not racist... I'm frustrated that I lack the proper literature skills to argue the point that I know I could prove. You have not debunked my arguments. State in fact that I have made NO arguments to you. I'm bowing out of this one for the simple fact of I KNOW my temper and current attitude toward terrorist orginizations (such as hezbollah) seeing as they have tried to blow me personally to pieces a few times over the last year will get me banned. Believe what you want to. This argument is NOT worth getting me banned over.
What I don't get is how you all seem to think Israel is the ONLY one doing bad stuff here. I can't fathom how you people cannot see that BOTH sides are just as fucked up as the other.
this is such an obvious election-time stunt by israel.True. The right wing has gotten strong and radical. Kadima (Centre-right) and Avoda (the largest left party, dying and valueless) made a move, at a convenient timing, to prove they've got the balls to do something. It worked. Two weeks ago, Barak, head of the Avoda and the minister of defence, was obsolete, heavily ridiculed for basically being a hypocrite. Now he's viewed as strong and stable by the masses.
how can anyone justify using the word terrorist as an insult if they are from the US, a country FOUNDED by terroriststaking for granted i am an imbecile who knows nothing about anything and you may have additional facts or a true horrifying past of the u s a that i am not aware of but............................ do you really think violent protest and open rebellion and terrorism are the same thing?
taking for granted i am an imbecile who knows nothing about anything and you may have additional facts or a true horrifying past of the u s a that i am not aware of but............................ do you really think violent protest and open rebellion and terrorism are the same thing?
Wait, I don't remember the part of the American Revolution where we used tactics specifically designed to cause terror?Did they not teach you the part where loayalists would get dragged out of home, have the shit beat out of them and forced to leave town, abandoning their property to the revolution? I'll admit it's a huge stretch, but you could argue that british loyalists were the victim of terrorism.
bort, I believe he's referring the behavior towards the native American population, and I think headphonics sums it up the best.
I don't think there's much logic in going through history and atoning for every sin committed by mankind.
Fixing our conflicts and problems, thus preventing and stopping future and present sins, is more important.
they hardly founded the country, though. i think stating it like it did was pretty misleading as it obviously implies REVOLUTIONARIES and not the people responsible for the trail of tears but either way it's a retarded post because none of us are bound by what unrelated people who happened to live in the same country did 150 years ago beyond anything more than a responsibility to make up for it. saying we cannot call people terrorists in a negative fashion implies that we somehow APPROVE of it when our own country does it which is of course absurd and in general the post came off very heeyyyy its my first year of college
how can anyone justify using the word terrorist as an insult if they are from the US, a country FOUNDED by terroristsWell, there is the fact that our country was founded over 250 years ago and no one alive today had anything to do with it. I mean, does this mean that no one in Germany today can call the United States or Israel imperialistic nations EVEN THOUGH THE SHOE FITS?
who is "revering" in this topic exactly???
Yeah, I think it might help matters if you could stop replying to every dumb post as if someone just deep-fried a live baby in your kitchen, Truth.
Where was I referring to anyone in this topic?sorry i thought your post was relevant and not just following some tangent with ninjapirate about how americans....theyre terrorists too.... when no one in this topic said anything like that
Seriously, you are pretty fucking ridiculous and extreme! This is NOT a purely black&white issue!!!
I wonder why you haven't responded to the news post about lebanon bombing the nursing home??? if israel did that you'd be jumping all over it and going apeshit.
sorry i thought your post was relevant and not just following some tangent with ninjapirate about how americans....theyre terrorists too.... when no one in this topic said anything like that
this is pretty much what most of the people at my college think about it.
This is NOT a purely black&white issue!!!
The latest attacks come after a hardline Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, warned that the Islamists would kill Jewish children anywhere in the world in revenge
Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal…
An Israeli defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to make the information public, said it appeared that the military used 120mm shells, among the largest mortar rounds…
Two residents who spoke to an AP reporter by phone said the two brothers [jihadis killed at the scene] were known to be low-level Hamas militants. They said a group of militants — one of them said four — were firing mortar shells from near the school.
An Israeli shell targeted the men, but missed and they fled, the witnesses said, refusing to allow their names to be published because they feared for their safety. Then another three shells landed nearby, exploding among civilians, they said.
Palestinian militants have frequently fired from residential areas in the past.
Just thought It would be interesting to post some news on more than one side of the situation.
Also lol as if something happening in London has anything to do with what is going on in Gaza
Ontario's largest university workers' union is proposing a ban on Israeli academics teaching in the province's universities, in a move that echoes previous attempts to boycott goods and services from the Jewish state.
The resolution, proposed by CUPE's Ontario University Workers Coordinating Committee, is in protest against a Dec. 29 bombing that damaged the Islamic University in Gaza.
"In response to an appeal from the Palestinian Federation of Unions of University Professors and Employees, we are ready to say Israeli academics should not be on our campuses unless they explicitly condemn the university bombing and the assault on Gaza in general," said Sid Ryan, president of CUPE Ontario.
Seriously, you are pretty fucking ridiculous and extreme! This is NOT a purely black&white issue!!!
congratulations are also due to flowerpower for being stupid as hell though. let's get inri cheetos and Afura in here and you can debate whether ragheads or zog are the real enemy in not-quite-racist terms for the duration of the topic while the rest of us just talk in IM and say "man this is horrible, what's happening."
you have the absolute least room to talk of anyone in this topic, including Truth, maybe banning both you and him from topics would be good.
dear truth: congratulations you have now exceed doktormartini in being zealous to such a degree that even when you are right people want you to be wrong anyways. jesus christ I'm not even someone who ever argued THEY BOTH BAD and I'm beginning to dislike every post being UM HEARD OF A THING CALLED HISTORY? HOW ABOUT AMERICA? or some implication that someone is a stupid zionist shit instead of just a dumb kid who doesn't know something.
congratulations are also due to flowerpower for being stupid as hell though. let's get inri cheetos and Afura in here and you can debate whether ragheads or zog are the real enemy in not-quite-racist terms for the duration of the topic while the rest of us just talk in IM and say "man this is horrible, what's happening."
ugh if you could even maintain an interesting derail I wouldn't say anything but no one has posted anything new since day one, you're such boring fucking people. joe get in here with a link to that rapper Propagandhi talking about blowing up jews that shit was boss.
I said it was horrible that it is happening of course it is but my point is The Truth is just like "NOPE THERE IS ONLY GOOD AND EVIL IN THESE SITUATIONS" ,you have to look at both sides of the story not ISRAEL BAD GAZA GOOD DUUH. So what if it bores you?? And I don't even know why you bring race into this, I'm not racist in the slightest and never have been, that's pretty offensive.
i'm sorry i believe that neighbouring countries should help out their 'brothers', that hamas needs to be taught a lesson, that other genocides/humanitarian crises get much less attention, and that i disagree with the bombing of UN posts/schools. I AM A MONSTER. I don't even zealously believe any of this shit, I just look at what's happening and try and form my own opinion on it, and it doesn't help when no one points out exactly why its wrong other than truth spouting some horseshit. I am not completely close-minded about this shit!
saying we cannot call people terrorists in a negative fashion implies that we somehow APPROVE of it when our own country does it which is of course absurd and taking the idea too far as then none of us would be able to say shit about anything due to the host of the atrocities the us has committed, despite the fact that we actually disapprove of the large majority of them. in general the post came off very heeyyyy its my first year of collegei was more making the point that calling ANYONE a terrorist in the first place is a massive act of propaganda when they could be equally labeled as freedom fighters or revolutionaries. but yea i am really bad at putting my thoughts into words so i can see how it can be misconstrued!
marmot's little point about whether there is a successful way to end this conflict without some form of rebellion or whether it's even worthwhile to care about hamas vs israel was twenty times more interesting and worthwhile than trying to metric out deaths versus possible deaths over and over and over.
but wait! Gaza once attacked a school!
therefore killing children is okay!
I said it was horrible that it is happening of course it is but my point is The Truth is just like "NOPE THERE IS ONLY GOOD AND EVIL IN THESE SITUATIONS" ,you have to look at both sides of the story not ISRAEL BAD GAZA GOOD DUUH. So what if it bores you?? And I don't even know why you bring race into this, I'm not racist in the slightest and never have been, that's pretty offensive.
i'm sorry i believe that neighbouring countries should help out their 'brothers', that hamas needs to be taught a lesson, that other genocides/humanitarian crises get much less attention, and that i disagree with the bombing of UN posts/schools. I AM A MONSTER. I don't even zealously believe any of this shit, I just look at what's happening and try and form my own opinion on it, and it doesn't help when no one points out exactly why its wrong other than truth spouting some horseshit. I am not completely close-minded about this shit!
edit: also, i've lived in israel for 6 and a half years, that probably brings in some bias.
Its never okay but they aren't the pure innocents you make them out to be either.
i also don't see why killing ~750 people with about HALF of those being civilians is wrong. i don't see anything wrong with walling off an entire city and preventing food, medicine, or electricity from crossing the border. i don't see anything wrong with preventing foreign journalists from going in to cover the situation. i don't see anything wrong with bombing and shooting at paramedics, mobile hospitals, and UN workers. all of this stuff has been reported on MANY TIMES in the media. either you're dismissing it all, or purposely keeping yourself ignorant. so.. uh.. good job, champ?
its cause hes jewish and the entirety of the world jewry has a persecution complex that lets them think they can get away with anything because through history they have been discriminated against/made to live as subcitizens in one capacity or another basically non stop and that somehow allows them to channel their frustrations against the world by blowing up a bunch of brown people I dont know
truth, its cause hes jewish and the entirety of the world jewry has a persecution complex that lets them think they can get away with anything because through history they have been discriminated against/made to live as subcitizens in one capacity or another basically non stop and that somehow allows them to channel their frustrations against the world by blowing up a bunch of brown people I dont know
truth, its cause hes jewish and the entirety of the world jewry has a persecution complex that lets them think they can get away with anything because through history they have been discriminated against/made to live as subcitizens in one capacity or another basically non stop and that somehow allows them to channel their frustrations against the world by blowing up a bunch of brown people I dont know
Watch out you're about to be accused of being an anti semite!!!
It's like me saying "black people have such a complex because they were brought to America as slaves that they think the world "owes" them something so they can do what they like and take what they like and break any law".
its dumb wash cycle admitted it truth
I honestly care more about Propositions 2 and 8 than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at this point; the whole area is an unresolvable geopolitical sinkhole. At least minor advancements in LGBT rights help people who actually contribute to humanity, and not just dualists slaughtering each other.
I honestly care more about Propositions 2 and 8 than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at this point; the whole area is an unresolvable geopolitical sinkhole. At least minor advancements in LGBT rights help people who actually contribute to humanity, and not just dualists slaughtering each other.
Right they legitimity did a raid in Israel to find a place where soldiers might be held, they found people got into a fight and they died, that started to fray it but it was beyond fixable, it wasn't until the Israelis were fired upon with almost 100 missiles that it ended completely, the death toll is hardly something to pick a side on, the Palestinians started it, they can end it just as easy why penalize the Israelis for being better warriors
My point is that we should care about both issues that are in our backyard as well as world issues. Sure, somethings will affect us more because it's right in our face, that's human nature and I'm not telling you to become some freedom fighter or whatever. I'm just saying that when things like mass killing occur in ANY nation then we should at least acknowledge the situation and not say "Who cares".
What Israel is doing is pretty despicable but the Israeli Palestinian conflict has been going on for how long now and neither side has done much to strengthen relationships. They're both at fault here; Israel for not lifting the fucking blockade and Palestine for their rocket fire. I'm sure I can trace this conflict back many more years and further prove that both sides did absolutely shit to strengthen relationships
the israeli warrior is top notch, train harder palestinian scrubs
thats exactly what i have been saying
Hey I'm with you, I don't give two shits either. What Israel is doing is pretty despicable but the Israeli Palestinian conflict has been going on for how long now and neither side has done much to strengthen relationships. They're both at fault here; Israel for not lifting the fucking blockade and Palestine for their rocket fire. I'm sure I can trace this conflict back many more years and further prove that both sides did absolutely shit to strengthen relationships (with COWBOY IN CHIEF George Bush exasperating the conflict with his FUCK YEAR ISRAEL DUH PROMISSED LANDmethod of thinking).
I don't care about Hamas and I don't care about Israel; the only thing I care about is supporting the civilians. Ironically (or maybe coincidentally) this year saw the biggest increase in military paychecks and I have a huge wad of cash sitting in my pocket. Among my other monthly donations, I'll be donating money to several organizations.
If you're like me and you don't give a fuck that one guy is stepping on another guy's dick and you'd rather help innocent people instead of posting racist and ignorant remarks, please check out the links on the right side of this website. (http://us.oneworld.net/alerts/gaza#groups)
It goes to a good cause.
Avi Shlaim The Guardian,
Wednesday 7 January 2009
The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question.
I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.
Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.
UN: No fighters in targeted school
The head of the UN agency in Gaza running the school that was attacked by Israel forces has rejected claims that Hamas fighters were inside the converted shelter.
The Israeli military accused Hamas of using civilians sheltering inside the building as "human shields" and said its troops had returned fire after fighters fired mortars at their positions from within al-Fakhora school in the Jabaliya refugee camp.
But John Ging, the director of operations in Gaza for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa), told reporters that he had visited the school during a three-hour lull in the fighting on Wednesday and "was reassured by the management of the school ... that there were no militants in the school".
'No militant activity'
Ging added that these were his "own staff, senior, experienced, long-serving staff".
"I am very confident now that there was no militant activity inside the school nor militants in the school," he said.
He also reiterated a call for an independent investigation into the incident.
"If anybody has evidence to the contrary, then let's bring it forward," Ging said.
The Israeli strike on Tuesday left 43 Palestinians dead and about 100 injured.
At least 700 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza and nearly 3,085 wounded since Israel's military offensive began on December 27.
Seven Israeli soldiers and three civilians have died in the same period.
The Israeli army said on Wednesday it stood by its statement issued the day before in which it claimed that mortars had been fired "from within" the school, but then issued another statement later dropping the word "within" to say "mortar fire from" the school.
'Important distinction'
Chris Gunness, a spokesman for Unrwa, said this was "an extremely important distinction because we have been accused of very serious allegations that our premises were being used to fire rockets".
Michel Abdel Massih QC, a London-based international human rights lawyer, also called for an independent investigation.
"If [Israeli] claims are to be tested properly we need an independent tribunal. The International Criminal Court was set up to deal with these issues, so there is a mechanism for the UN security council to refer the case for investigation," he told Al Jazeera.
When asked if Israel would allow such an investigation, Mark Regev, a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, said Israel had already held an "initial investigation" which found that troops had returned fire from the UN building.
Regev accused Hamas, the Palestinian faction that controls the Gaza Strip, of committing a "war crime" by using those sheltering in the UN school as "a human shield".
The incident has provoked strong international condemnation with Ban-Ki-moon, secretary-general of the United Nations, branding both the incident and Hamas rocket attacks as "unacceptable".
Thanks Marcus... But the sad truth is that Israel probably won't let this aid get through the border (and if they do, just like the UN aid convoys, they'll probably get blown up). Still, we can dream though... I donated a lot of money already but will definitely look to donate a lot more to the Palestinian people in Gaza.
Man, I can't wait for Obama to be inaugurated because I know he'll put a stop to the Israeli support and it's not like the BIBLE BELT can single handily impeach him.
Man, I can't wait for Obama to be inaugurated because I know he'll put a stop to the Israeli support and it's not like the BIBLE BELT can single handily impeach him.Pretty sure Obama said, "Nobody is suffering more than the Palestinian people" but would still support Israel 100% and still send them shite loads of money.
I can imagine it now "US supports Palestine, 90% of the Midwest leaves the country to found Arianland (no blacks or gays allowed)."
but would still support Israel 100% and still send them shite loads of money.
Man, I can't wait for Obama to be inaugurated because I know he'll put a stop to the Israeli support and it's not like the BIBLE BELT can single handily impeach him.I was under the impression that he is pretty close with some Israel lobby people and was a strong supporter of Israel. Has this changed recently and I was unaware?
I can imagine it now "US supports Palestine, 90% of the Midwest leaves the country to found Arianland (no blacks or gays allowed)."
Hey I'm with you, I don't give two shits either. What Israel is doing is pretty despicable but the Israeli Palestinian conflict has been going on for how long now and neither side has done much to strengthen relationships. They're both at fault here; Israel for not lifting the fucking blockade and Palestine for their rocket fire. I'm sure I can trace this conflict back many more years and further prove that both sides did absolutely shit to strengthen relationships (with COWBOY IN CHIEF George Bush exasperating the conflict with his FUCK YEAR ISRAEL DUH PROMISSED LANDmethod of thinking).
I don't care about Hamas and I don't care about Israel; the only thing I care about is supporting the civilians. Ironically (or maybe coincidentally) this year saw the biggest increase in military paychecks and I have a huge wad of cash sitting in my pocket. Among my other monthly donations, I'll be donating money to several organizations.
If you're like me and you don't give a fuck that one guy is stepping on another guy's dick and you'd rather help innocent people instead of posting racist and ignorant remarks, please check out the links on the right side of this website. (http://us.oneworld.net/alerts/gaza#groups)
It goes to a good cause.
Go if you can :) (http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_homepage)
If you had bothered to even read the topics you would see all the evidence posted that ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASE FIRE, that Israel is starving the Gazans, and that Israel has been killing them off for 60 years.
I will start an online organization called C'mon, Bro where nothing but black people post pictures with a humorous "Say What?" face.Dude.
There's no other reason for the fighting in Gaza except the brown people want to kill the white people with the funny caps and the white people with the funny caps want to kill the brown people.which one are the brown ones and which ones are the white ones
which one are the brown ones and which ones are the white ones
wait marcus why are you yelling at me what did i say about any of that
You told me that I shouldn't be supporting Hamas (even though I don't).
You told me that Hamas wasn't as bad as Israel (which they aren't).
You told me that Israel is 100% at fault here (which they're not).
No disrespect to you dude, but I'm just proving to everyone that this is a hopeless situation made even more hopeless by the fact that neither side seems to care about human life. Even American bombing in Afghanistan was careful to avoid civilian targets. Yes, civilians died (it's kinda hard to avoid civilian casualties in a city of millions of people), but thanks to our RIGHTEOUS GOD FEARING American image, we tried not to harm the common man.
Neither Hamas nor Israel cares.
My posts were to inform people that both sides are at fault. Hamas for being dicks and Israel for being imperialist fags.
There's no other reason for the fighting in Gaza except the brown people want to kill the white people with the funny caps and the white people with the funny caps want to kill the brown people. Just one group getting a foot ahead of another while the civilians suffer.:welp: huh, that's all there is to it
the brown people have funny caps too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1GnEbB8hc&eurl=http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=16354&feature=player_embedded
sugar rockets sugar roCKETS SUGAR ROCKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!lmao he is a caricature.
ahahaahahahaha do the missiles really have no explosives in them? it's just a metal missile casing and they hope it'll hurt real bad?"To this end, the rockets are propelled by a solid mixture of sugar and a widely available fertilizer, potassium nitrate. The warhead is filled with smuggled or scavenged TNT and another common fertilizer, urea nitrate.[7]"
The 15-strong UN Security Council has voted for a resolution asking for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, with the US alone abstaining.
Shitstorm Timeline
2006: America trains Fatah, a major political faction in Gaza, to defend against Hamas. Nearly every Arab country supports this.
2007: Hamas kicks Fatah's ass, costing the lives of 600 palestinians.
2007: Hamas targets civilian structures and demands Fatah relinquish all weapons. They close the borders and people starve.
2007: Some asshat threatens to completely wipeout Fatah if they don't stop their guerrilla attacks. We're talking genocide here.
2007: Some jihad Hamas supporting militia motherfucker starts bombing IDF with 200+ crude rockets.
2007: Israel responds with airstrikes that target mostly military but with civilian casualties.
2007-2008: Despite their being a "ceasefire," Hamas keeps launching missiles at IDF while Israel retaliates with bombing. No ground is gained, no point is made. Waste of resources.
2008: Israel, pissed that Hamas keeps playing with them, kills 7 gunmen.
2008: Hamas replies with missile attacks.
2008: Israel replies with bombing.
End of 08: Hamas declares ceasefire over (for real guys, we were just launching missiles to test you lol)
2009: Israel kicks Hamas' ass.
This timeline goes even deeper than that, but Hamas is like the annoying High School kid and Israel is the big fucking bully. Hamas keeps pinging Israel with these weak ass missiles, killing very few but still doing damage. Eventually, Israel is like "Shit's enough" and they wipe the floor with Hamas. It's like Japan vs. America in WWII; some admiral guy forgot his name because WWII is gay said "We have awoken a sleeping giant" and sure enough Japan kept fighting and got their asses kicked.
Both parties are at fault. Both parties are wrong. I do not support either party NOR DO I CARE about either party.
I support the civilians and the poor families that are caught in these bombings. I think Hamas and Israel are horrible and nothing more than terrorists but there's shit I can do but support the relief of the innocent victims who can't get the fuck out the city.
FUCK YOU HAMAS
FUCK YOU ISRAEL
FUCK YOU ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS EITHER GROUPS
I do not measure "evilness" or whatever in how many people you kill. Forcing a political party out of a region violently and murdering them for no reason is just as bad as carpet bombing them and closing off the borders. If you kill 10 people you are still as bad in my eyes as someone who kills 100 people. It only proves you have no respect for human life and I have no respect for people who have no respect for human life.
According to the US Census Bureau the GDP of Gaza declined by 8% from 2006-2008; the time period when Hamas kicked out Fatah with an inflation rate in their currency by 4%. In 2005, unemployment in Gaza was 20%. In 2006, when Hamas took over, it doubled to 40%.
In 2005, less than 50% were living below the poverty line. IN 2007, DURING HAMAS CONTROL OF GAZA, 80% OF THE PEOPLE LIVED BELOW THE POVERTY LINE. Yep, them Israelis sure were starving the Palestinian people... 1 1/2 years before they got there! Must have been that sheeny curse olololol
The only good thing to come from Gaza since Hamas takeover was their literacy rate.
2005: 87.6%
2008: 88%
*slow handclap*
Brown guys: muhammad jihad arabs
white guys with funny caps: JEWSSSS
EDIT: Wow, big mistake here. While the per capita GDP declined, the spending power of Gaza + West Bank increased from 1 billion to 5 billion!!!!
And yet... unemployment has doubled and poverty (BEFORE THE ISRAELI ATTACKS) was at 80%???
So, where is the money going? I'll give you a hint NOT TO THE PEOPLE LOL!
(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/26699/lol_1.jpg)
For those that don't know, this is what Hamas' rockets look like. I didn't know what Velfarre was talking about with sugar rockets but WOW these things look like oversized bottle rockets.
CAN'T GET ANY GAYER CAN YOU HAMAS???
EDIT 2: Jesus Christ, look at the propulsion method on those things? It's probably a fuse attached to 300 sticks of dynamite. I wouldn't be surprised if more rockets landed in Gaza than they did in Israel. Holy crap, way to spend 5 billion dollars guys. While your people are starving you're stuffing the faces of the militia leaders like hummos, schawarma, moutabal, and tabouleh.
"Sir! Israel is kicking our butts!"
"SHUT UP AND WASH MY FEET PREPARE MY MEZZE!"
I can't even tell if you guys are trolling anymore but there are serious concerns about both depleted uranium shells and phosphorous bombs.
i wasn't trolling. israel already has such an overwhelming superiority in terms of firepower that there's no way they could ever justify using depleted uranium shells.
What happened between 2005 and 2008?
I can't even tell if you guys are trolling anymore but there are serious concerns about both depleted uranium shells and phosphorous bombs.
Title: Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirming the United States' strong support for Israel, and supporting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
Sponsor: Rep Pelosi, Nancy [CA-8] (introduced 1/8/2009) Cosponsors (11)
While there have certainly been ups and downs, the basic bond between the US and Israel, the only country in the Middle East that resembles the US in its values and democracy, is very strong. Both countries have long-recognized that their mutual interests of deterring war, promoting stability and eventually achieving peace are only possible if the United States continues to stand firmly behind Israel.and ended up bursting out laughing
also lol at truth quoting a sarcastic racist post and saying I AGREE...
I clarified what I said re read my post
no it was actually a pretty bigoted statement and a really gross characterization of the jewish people
but i guess it's alright you've got a jewish friend??you missed my entire point
truth, its cause hes jewish and the entirety of the world jewry has a persecution complex that lets them think they can get away with anything because through history they have been discriminated against/made to live as subcitizens in one capacity or another basically non stop and that somehow allows them to channel their frustrations against the world by blowing up a bunch of brown people I dont know
lets not forget that what I said has a shred of truth in it but it was mostly just BLAH BLAH RAWR POOP
for instance, I got to talking to a roommate of mine who is jewish about this last night, and I couldnt get him to understand that the jews of israel are mostly at fault in this situation (while I recognize that both sides have committed many crimes, we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place if palestine was not subject to a military occupation stretching back for decades). ultimately a lot of them are just too caught up in their own jewiness to understand that because 'the world is out to get them' isnt a good enough reason to justify what israel is doing
and this is an attitude that I would say a majority of jews my age in america have. but all the other inflammatory shit I said was pretty insensitive and stupid
in this post you say that jews have a persecution complex from being the target of persecution so they think it's ok for them to attack anyone to avoid this persecutionthe first post was largely a jokepost, most people here have recognized that by now.
in this post you say that most jews have a persecution complex from being the target of persecution so they think it's ok for them to attack anyone to avoid this persecution, but you take back everything else you said in your previous post
JERUSALEM (AFP) – The United Nations on Friday cited witnesses saying Israeli forces moved about 110 Palestinians into a house, told them to stay inside, and later shelled it repeatedly, killing about 30 people.
Palestinian medics said that at least 785 Palestinians have been killed in the two-week-old offensive which Israel says targets the Hamas rulers of Gaza and aims at halting the daily volleys of rocket fire against the Jewish state.
Figures published by OCHA indicate 33 percent of those killed are children.
Yes, your one Jewish friend has a persecution complex, let's just assume that all Jews have a persecution complex.yeah my one jewish friend
Edit for obvious joke I missed first time: I FEEL VERY PERSECUTED RIGHT NOW
Can someone please answer my question.
Defend or Falsify: Israel is just as bad as Hamas.
I really want to understand this whole mess.
Can someone please answer my question.
Defend or Falsify: Israel is just as bad as Hamas.
I really want to understand this whole mess.
lemme put this in 2nd grade logic
if you mess with the snake you will be bit
if you touch a boiling pot you will be burned
if you expect peace with your longstanding rival who is bigger and stronger than you are but you launch rockets and act hostile in every conceivable way you will get your ass kicked
this is negligence. this is the mother leaving her child in the car with the door unlocked and then cries when her child dies of heat exhaustion or gets kidnapped.
Watch out you're about to be accused of being an anti semite!!!
lemme put this in two words: fuck you. this is the kind of conservative bullshit i would normally kick someone's ass over. heh bitch was wearing slut clothes, deserved to get raped. nigger got uppity, got hung. you absolutely dumb motherfucker.
whoooooo gives a shit, israel blew up a fucking school. 33% children dead. who gives a fuck what hamas did. what world do you live in where AGGRAVATING someone is equivalent to killing their children?
why dont you go ahead and justify some child murder marcus. i'm all about that. go for it tex. go cite some 1970s battles. i'll be right here listening fervently.
Maybe they elected Hamas because Hamas sets up schools and other stuff?
“calls for a reduction of five percent of the power supply in three of the ten power lines that supply electricity from Israel to the Gaza Strip, to a level of 13.5 megawatts in two of the lines and 12.5 megawatts in the third line, we [the Court] were convinced that this reduction does not breach the humanitarian obligations imposed on the State of Israel in the framework of the armed conflict being waged between it and the Hamas organization that controls the Gaza Strip. Our conclusion is based, in part, on the affidavit of the Respondents indicating that the relevant Palestinian officials stated that they can reduce the load in the event limitations are placed on the power lines, and that they had used this capability in the past."
marcuse i am gonna murder your mother and children because a blackman the other day slapped a friend across the face......
ooooops
better think about it nexttime when you mess with one of us darkie
While I don't agree with Hamas' actions, isn't it natural that there is going to be at least some violent resistance when being oppressed?
In 2003 and 2004 the brigades in Gaza developed a powerful organization that was able to resist many IDF incursions, including the siege of Jabalya in October 2004. However, these battles took a heavy toll in the brigade's ranks, which saw a great deal of losses. The group, however, continued to gain strength and remained capable of carrying out attacks in the following years. The brigades can count on a huge pool of individuals seeking to join its ranks, an important logistical organization which supplies the militants with weapons smuggled in Rafah using tunnels, and talented engineers who provide the fighters with homemade weapons such as the al-Bana, the Batar, the Yasin and the Qassam rocket.
In early 2005 the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades appeared to stand by a truce negotiated between the Palestinian Authority and the government of Israel. However the brigades took advantage of the truce to regroup, while some militants continued to launch periodic mortar and Qassam rocket barrages toward Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip.
Following Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades staged several rallies in which they displayed thousands of fighters and an assortment of weaponry in Gaza. These celebrations ended abruptly when, on September 23, twenty Palestinians were killed as a car carrying Qassam rockets exploded among a dense crowd. Since this incident, the brigades refrained from staging public displays of force as well as launching attacks at Israel, which, in turn, refrained from targeting Hamas members in assassinations and raids. Despite occasional and brief flare-ups of violence, the brigades generally respected this truce until the beginning of June 2006. The Palestinian Authority has been, during this period, under intense pressure from Israel and the international community to disarm Hamas, but fears of heavy resistance from the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and a possible civil war, coupled with a victory of the movement in the 2006 legislative elections, prevented any such attempts. As a result, it is widely believed that the brigades stockpiled thousands of homemade weapons and projectiles during 2005 and 2006 and were actively attempting to rebuild their destroyed cells in the West Bank.[citation needed]
In May 2006 a police force was formed in Gaza, consisting of thousands of brigade fighters. It aimed to restore law and order in the city but instead broke out into clashes with Fatah militias.[citation needed] On June 10, 2006, after the Gaza beach blast in which seven civilians died, the brigades announced a cessation of the truce with Israel. In the following hours, they claimed responsibility for launching Qassam rockets at the Israeli town of Sderot, and threatened to step up their attacks.[citation needed]
In June and July 2006, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades were involved in the operation which led to the capture of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, and in the subsequent heavy fighting in the Gaza Strip following Operation Summer Rains, launched by the IDF. It was the first time in over 18 months that the brigades were actively involved in fighting against Israeli soldiers. As of May 2007, the brigades acknowledged they lost 163 fighters while defending against the IDF operation.[6]
Israel evaluates at 40,000 the number of fighters now in the brigades, and claim they receive extensive training as well as more sophisticated weapons, including long-range rockets as well as guided anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.[7]
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades operate on a model of independent cells and even high-ranking members are often unaware of the activities of other cells.
sugAR SUGar SUGAR is a reference to barkley bled.
also lol at truth quoting a sarcastic racist post and saying I AGREE...
jesus christ man like five minutes ago you were arguing ALL I'M SAYING IS FACTS WHY ARE THEY GETTING MAD.
ban this fucker for racism btw.
(1) Utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations
As clearly shown in this report, Hamas makes operational use of heavily built-up and densely populated civilian areas in the Gaza Strip, for the planning, organizing and launching of rocket attacks. Moreover, Hamas deliberately makes use of civilian facilities (such as universities) for weapons development, and makes systematic use of protected civilian areas (including under homes and even mosques) for the hiding and storage of rockets, explosives and ammunition.
Above ground the tunnel entrances have been covered by rugs, radiators and even toy boxes in local homes.This is disgusting. If you don't find this disgusting then I fear for your soul.
Hamas's Finance Ministry on Monday barred Israeli fruits and vegetables from entering the Gaza Strip... The Hamas decision will also make it harder for Palestinians to keep fruits and vegetables in their diet, particularly those items not grown in Gaza... Upon hearing that Palestinian private contractors on the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom crossing planned to adhere to the prohibition, Israeli businessmen did not send out the scheduled 60 trucks of produce... The fruit and vegetable ban is the latest in a set of anti-Israel moves by Hamas, including continued mortar fire on the crossing, to keep Kerem Shalom closed. On Saturday, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said, "We are against opening the Zionist-controlled crossing of Kerem Shalom."
Nearly 580 Palestinians in need of medical care have been stranded for up to two weeks inside a terminal on the Egyptian side of the Rafah border crossing with the Gaza Strip, the Red Cross said Monday. Because of a border dispute between Israel and the Palestinians, the Red Cross has proposed escorting them into Gaza by boat from el-Arish along the Egyptian coast, a Red Cross spokeswoman in Cairo said. But it has yet to receive a response from either side... At least two stranded Palestinians have died so far, including a 15-year-old boy who was waiting to cross into Gaza after undergoing heart surgery in Cairo, an Egyptian official at the border said.
Leaflets signed by the commander of the Israeli military were dropped over northern Gaza on Saturday morning, warning residents to "leave the area immediately" to ensure their safety... "Due to the terrorist actions undertaken by terrorist elements from the region of your residences against the state of Israel, the Israel Defense Forces are compelled to respond immediately in the region of your residences. For your safety, you are ordered to leave the area immediately," the leaflets say.
"We are waiting for the wounded Palestinians to cross. They are not being allowed to cross," he told reporters. Asked who was to blame, he said: "Ask the party in control on the ground in Gaza."
Yes I guess the reports of Palestinian civilians being fired upon by the Egyptian border guards has nothing to do with it, I guess the walls and checkpoints and the military blockade have nothing to do with it.
Edit: HOLY SHIT quoting the Egyptian Prime Minister? Are you kidding me? That's like saying Olmert is a great source or Condoleeza Rice is an unbiased source. Egypt is currently a puppet police state in which: A: the majority of the population (very poor people btw) support Palestine and Hamas and B: Has extremely close ties with Israel and The United States (But then again, knowing you this is a huge plus! America can't do no wrong!!!!)
EREZ CROSSING, Israel – Israel allowed several hundred Palestinians with foreign passports to flee Gaza today, even as its warplanes bombed a mosque it said was used to store weapons and destroyed homes of more than a dozen Hamas operatives.
Hamas has stepped up efforts to eliminate Israeli informers, killing more than half a dozen since the start of Operation Cast Lead 14 days ago. It has also cracked down on rival Fatah members, placing hundreds under house arrest and killing or maiming others, according to Israeli media.
Truth, you didn't take into account that refugees fled the day after the invasions and literally attacked the Egyptian border. There were people on bulldozers destroying the wall. It was practically a riot.
And Israel is allowing people to evacuate. Just last week they flew a group to a saudi hospital. Regular hospital planes are removing citizens to Saudi Arabia.
Hamas may have used human shields but Israel has done this before for sure:
Oh okay so on the one hand you are advocating that these people should be fleeing gaza then on the other when they try to tear down the wall between them and Egypt and get shot you seek to justify it. And they let people with foreign visas leave, nobody else. Do you know why they let them leave? Because foreign nationals' home countries wouldn't be too happy that their people were killed by white phosphorous explosions.
Also to address your point about storing munitions in homes and stores sometimes under children's rooms: welcome to guerrilla warfare. I know it may sound mickey mouse to a navy man like you but blending in with the population is the most succesful tactic used against a more powerful enemy. The reason they are stored in these places is because THERE IS NOWHERE ELSE TO STORE THEM. Gaza is over 50 percent children, try finding a house without a children's room in it, they store them in these places because IT IS WHERE THEY LIVE. There is no human shield bullshit.
Oh okay so on the one hand you are advocating that these people should be fleeing gaza then on the other when they try to tear down the wall between them and Egypt and get shot you seek to justify it. And they let people with foreign visas leave, nobody else. Do you know why they let them leave? Because foreign nationals' home countries wouldn't be too happy that their people were killed by white phosphorous explosions.
Also to address your point about storing munitions in homes and stores sometimes under children's rooms: welcome to guerrilla warfare. I know it may sound mickey mouse to a navy man like you but blending in with the population is the most succesful tactic used against a more powerful enemy. The reason they are stored in these places is because THERE IS NOWHERE ELSE TO STORE THEM. Gaza is over 50 percent children, try finding a house without a children's room in it, they store them in these places because IT IS WHERE THEY LIVE. There is no human shield bullshit.
There's a difference between evacuating and a full frontal assault. 1,000s of people attacking a country that's had strained relations with said people are going to counter in a hostile manner.
Think about it; 1,000s of people running at you, no way to process them, no way to know if they're really civilians or hidden military units. Riot police can barely contain 100s of protesters. Think about 1,000s of mad, panicked citizens Dawn of the Dead style charging your gates.
And yet you don't blame Hamas for not taking responsibility in the deaths of their own people? Hiding weapons underneath occupied homes? In schools? In hospitals?
They're hiding weapons where they hope their enemies won't look. If they hid shit in a big warehouse where dozens of guys in black masks ran in and out that paints a HUGE target for the badguys to drop bombs. So, what better place to store munitions than in civilian sectors.
I still can't understand how you support Hamas even after they flip-flop through opinions, deny aid, and show an utter lack of respect for their own country.
"I got these AK's were to stash them! I know, in my baby's cradle they'll never look there!"
Aid has never been blocked only Tariff ridden Israeli goods (Israel has full rights to tax and tariff all Palestinian imports).
Where do you suggest they store these weapons I honestly want to know? What gives israel the rights to have weapons and not Hamas? Hamas needs not take any responsibility for where their weapons are stored ISRAEL IS THE ONE BOMBING THESE PLACES KNOWING FULL WELL THAT CIVILIANS LIVE THERE. Hamas is not allowed weapons but Israel is, great.
Also yes let's make videogames references to describe refugees running away from certain death!!! hell yeah gun down those zombies!!!!! nuke them from orbit!!! lol even central african countries handle refugee situations more humanely than Egypt.
Before you post, keep in mind that Izz ad whatever is the one that attacked Israel first even though Israel had upheld the truce since 2006.
Hamas' military cell attacked first.
No it didn't are you kidding me we've posted SOURCED PROOF THAT ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASE FIRE.
But none of this is the point and you're just trying to rope me into some samantical argument when the fact is that you are white knighting a group of people who have killed over 800 PEOPLE. You're trying to make an argument on the only place you feel you have merit. And you know what? It's not surprising that you're trying to defend this at all. I'm not going to go into the details because I'm not a huge prick but it just doesn't surprise me at all.
A cease-fire was agreed to by both sides and began on June 19, 2008.[1] Rocket and mortar attacks still continued throughout the cease-fire although less frequently than before the cease-fire went into effect. A total of 20 rockets and 18 mortars were launched from the signing of the ceasefire until the beginning of November. This represented a 98% reduction in rocket fire four and a half month period prior to the signing of the ceasefire during which over 1,800 rockets were fired from Gaza.
And I have sourced proof that Hamas has attacked Israelian borders more than Israel has attack Hamas.
So who's proof is right, Truth? The 1,800+ rockets Hamas launched in 2008 alone or Israel killing a handful of Hamas militia because they built a tunnel to kidnap Israeli soldiers?
I'm not trying to lure into nothing, I just want to know why you don't agree that Hamas should be held responsible for neglecting this situation? Why don't you believe that Hamas should have agreed to the ceasefire proposed yesterday? Their people are dying, Truth. Innocent people and any other country would have hopped on the UN bandwagon and said "SAVE US FROM THIS BULLSHIT."
The world is trying to help Gaza and Gaza is ignoring the world so what's going here?
I'm not white knighting anyone. I'm looking at this from a realistic perspective while you're being blinded because an incident occurred that cost the lives of civilians which wouldn't have happened if both parties weren't so hamfisted.
But whatever, I'm done, because clearly you don't care that a countries' leaders are responsible for taking care of that country. According to Truth, it's better to fight and leave your family vulnerable than discuss the situation in a diplomatic manner. You make fun of me for "white knighting" while you blatantly ignore the facts that not just one group is fucking responsible.
Hope this shit ends soon. Hope Israel is charged with war crimes. Hope Hamas is ousted and a less fundamentalist organizations that actually has control over their armed forces establishes peace in Gaza.
Is there something not wrong with this picture, Truth?
Can you explain to me how to go about peace while still attacking someone? Shake someone's hand then kick them in the balls?
Whatever, man. Just continue believing that Hamas are the innocent white mice, pure as the day they were born and Israel are the evil black cats coming to stomp them out.
Hi. An Israeli here. An Israeli soldier actually. I've been inside Gaza for some time, got injured and now I'm in the hospital passing my time by reading all those anti-Israel posts around the internet. I wasn't really sure if I should reply, because I know that there is a very low chance to change anyone's mind in these matters, especially now when it's so "currect" to hate Israel and say we are war criminals etc. But I read some of the posts here and I just feel like I have to be the one saying something for my country and trying to show you the other side.
So first, I will say this: I'm not here to make Israel look all pretty and clean. Yes, Palestinian civilians are being killed and I can give you my word (if it worth something for you) that not a single one of them was killed intentionally. Sometimes it looks like people on the street around the world like to think about us (Israeli soldiers, leaders etc) as animals - we are not animals, we are human just like you. Believe me, I don't like to see any 5 year old kid getting killed - it makes me feel sick and it should never happen. Let me give you a little info from the inside - we came across some house in Gaza, and when we got inside, we saw a family just sitting there. We asked them why they were there, in such a dangerous situation, and they told us that someone locked them inside saying he would kill them with his gun if they go outside. This someone is a Hamas soldier, knowing that this family could die in some Israeli attack. So why the hell will he make them stay inside? isn't he supposed to defend them? Nope. He knows that if they will die, at least this will make Israel look like shit in the media, creating more pressure from the outside world on Israel to get out of Gaza. Another thing about those Hamas "soldiers" - they fight us wearing jeans and T-shirts. There is no way to know if a person is a civilian or a Hamas soldier, until the second he brings out the gun and starts shooting at you. They don't do it because they don't have uniforms, they do it because they simply don't give a fuck about they people of Gaza - all they want is to destroy Israel, no matter the cost. And these stuff are just some of the shit we deal with over there.
About the justification of this whole thing, let me ask you a question: if your country was bombed with rockets for 7 years from a different country, would you want your country to do nothing about it? Imagine this: you walk in some street in your city on a beautiful day, you do your grocery shopping, whatever, and then out of the blue - A ROCKET FALLS right in front of you, killing you! Sound kind of ridiculous, right? We would you think that something like that will happen to you? Well, think about that: in Sderot, an Israeli city 15 KM from Gaza, a day without 3-4 rockets is a REALLY fucking weird day. So the people of Sderot and all of the cities in it's area should just live with that for... how long? another 7 years? will that make this military operation justified? Or maybe we should just wait until the rocket will fall on some group of children, killing them, and THEN we will have a good reason to try and stop it? A week ago, one rocket hit a school class in Be'er Sheva. The class was empty of children because Israel stopped all studying in the bombed ares. Why don't the Hamas do the same for the people he claims to defend? Why do I see a man walking down the street of Gaza with a baby in his arms and an AK47 on his back in the middle of a war? What the fuck?
I have a lot more to say but my time is short right now. Please, feel free to ask me questions (hit me with hard questions if you want) and I will try to get my hands on some computer here to answer them.
Let me give you a little info from the inside - we came across some house in Gaza, and when we got inside, we saw a family just sitting there. We asked them why they were there, in such a dangerous situation, and they told us that someone locked them inside saying he would kill them with his gun if they go outside. This someone is a Hamas soldier, knowing that this family could die in some Israeli attack. So why the hell will he make them stay inside? isn't he supposed to defend them? Nope. He knows that if they will die, at least this will make Israel look like shit in the media, creating more pressure from the outside world on Israel to get out of Gaza.
Let me give you a little info from the inside - we came across some house in Gaza, and when we got inside, we saw a family just sitting there. We asked them why they were there, in such a dangerous situation, and they told us that someone locked them inside saying he would kill them with his gun if they go outside. This someone is a Hamas soldier, knowing that this family could die in some Israeli attack. So why the hell will he make them stay inside? isn't he supposed to defend them? Nope. He knows that if they will die, at least this will make Israel look like shit in the media, creating more pressure from the outside world on Israel to get out of Gaza.
how do you justify this hypothetical example that might not have happened truth. do this for me.
And how do YOU justify that Truth.
Damn them lying jews.
It does not excuse the IDF but shit it proves that the Hamas are pretty horrible.
How do you justify to yourself Palestinian land being taken and homes bulldozed? How do you justify the food and medical blockade? How do you justify walling people into a ghetto and blocking them off from their land and their work? How do you justify an occupation that has lasted sixty years while tariffing imports into Gaza while not recognizing the geneva convention? Would you still think it was okay if these "terrorists" were hiding among civilians in Tel Aviv? Would you support 800 tel aviv citizens being killed? What do you have to say of reports of children being sniped by Israeli snipers? About un aid convoys and UN schools (whose coordinates were broadcast to the idf) being bombed? The UN has said nobody was mortaring from their property do you accuse them of lying? Why not just cede land to the armistice agreement instead of negotiating through slaughter?
it's ok truth. he's an injured Israeli soldier in a hospital bed in Gaza on a laptop with wireless. the connection is kinda spotty especially when the dust from the bombings of nearby buildings gets inside and in between all of the power failures. he might not answer for a whileI can see the sarcasm about my condition, but I can also see from that post that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to what happens in Israel (just a guess, sorry if I'm wrong). Obviosly, I'm not in Gaza right now as Israel wouldn't send it's wounded soldiers over to Gaza.
Are you trying to say that because a family was pressured not to leave an area where Israelis might be entering, it absolves IDF forces of all blame if they blow the shit out of them?
Are you aware that it is a war crime to not take measures to limit civilian deaths, even if the enemy is creating a situation in which preventing civilian deaths is difficult?
edit: I guess that is somewhat patronizing to say to a wounded soldier but really, do you not see the flaws in that example?
(http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/57278/jerkcity3380.gif)
it's ok truth. he's an injured Israeli soldier in a hospital bed in Gaza on a laptop with wireless. the connection is kinda spotty especially when the dust from the bombings of nearby buildings gets inside and in between all of the power failures. he might not answer for a while
seriously look what you've done truth. even ryan is saying dumb shit like I DONT SUPPORT HAMAS BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD because you've convinced people with your idiotic zeal for ANYTHING THAT IS REMOTELY EMOTIONAL that condemning Israel means you must also support Hamas instead of just having a great deal more understanding for Hamas and more condemnation for Israel and now fake Israeli soldiers are posting examples where no one even gets hurt and people are asking you to justify it because you're the only one stupid enough to do this instead of dismissing it. now I'm the only one other than Dietcoke who isn't going to post here that actually feels SOMEWHAT INDIGNANT about the issue and everyone else is stuck in some bullshit libertarian THE REAL WAY IS IN THE MIDDLE crap instead of realizing that when you're facing a country that kills children regularly, has several groups working to insult and degrade you while uplifting them, has all the power, and has forced Palestine in fifty short years from all of the country into basically a fucking landing strip that they are currently invading, a little religious intoleration and violence is somewhat understandable. instead you want to say it's all JUSTIFIABLE and not only is GW not a smart enough place to contemplate external factors to this degree but you aren't a smart enough guy to pull it off!
basically lock this topic you're all awful monsters, if you support Israel in this crisis, set yourself on fire.
and once again we're back to second fucking grade. IF ONE PERSON IS BAD.
IT'S OKAY TO KILL CHILDREN.
you people are so dumb I am amazed that when presented with soup your brain can figure out not to send the broth into your lungs basically you would all drown in soup I am saying I am amazed you can figure out how to eat food as that involves complex muscle reaction, taste (none of you have this anyways), and multiple senses, whereas figuring out there's no justification for killing a lot of children who did nothing and bombing a UN camp takes about two neurons firing to figure out.
like it astonishes me that you are still the same stupid motherfucker you've been for years.
I support a lot of regimes who have done bad things in place of much worse ones. I support the Iraqi resistance against the US Army, I support FARC against Columbia and the IRA against Great Britain. Can I attempt to defend everything these groups do? Of course not, but they are fighting against imperialist aggressors who are much worse.
any time someone has a leftist view point they get mocked and laughed at.
I support a lot of regimes who have done bad things in place of much worse ones. I support the Iraqi resistance against the US Army, I support FARC against Columbia and the IRA against Great Britain. Can I attempt to defend everything these groups do? Of course not, but they are fighting against imperialist aggressors who are much worse. Sometimes in these kind of conflicts you have to support some groups on idealistic grounds that have done some bad things in their fight. I honestly think that not supporting these groups is apathetic at best and counter-revolutionary at worst (prepared to be made fun of by ryan i don't care). I defend Hamas in this topic not because they are angels, but because I think the contention that they are working against the best interests of the Palestinian people is complete horseshit.
I love how in this topicwhoa you mean i removed a hilarious verbal warn for legitimate bigotry and replaced it with a real one once i realized he only gave you a verbal? get out of town!!! the funny part is you are full of shit and even admitted it later on and everyone else has observed this as well, so i do not really understand how on any level you expected to be like JEWS.... FUCK EM and get away with it. ryan just gave you a simple verbal warn and removed it because idk it's what he does for posting those dumb images, but the other two warns are in direct relation to you making a blatantly antisemitic posts that afura probably only gave you a verbal warn for because he did not want to seem incredibly biased, because really it was worth at least one major, which is what you got as a replacement. i'm sooooooooo conservative!!!
I have been warned by three different mods, once for one post and twice for another (first a verbal, which was retracted, and then several days later a major warn for it out of the blue, 5 pages away from actual discussion). these forums are starting to turn into king of the hill. any time someone has a leftist or relativist view point they get mocked and laughed at. allah akbar free palestine. laugh at me for being so silly
oh and go ahead and warn me again. its a good feeling to come home to know that you pissed someone off when you were trying to get their goat in the first place
even ryan is saying dumb shit like I DONT SUPPORT HAMAS BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD because you've convinced people with your idiotic zeal for ANYTHING THAT IS REMOTELY EMOTIONAL that condemning Israel means you must also support Hamas instead of just having a great deal more understanding for Hamas and more condemnation for Israel and now fake Israeli soldiers are posting examples where no one even gets hurt and people are asking you to justify it because you're the only one stupid enough to do this instead of dismissing it.
I love how in this topic
I have been warned by three different mods, once for one post and twice for another (first a verbal, which was retracted, and then several days later a major warn for it out of the blue, 5 pages away from actual discussion). these forums are starting to turn into king of the hill. any time someone has a leftist or relativist view point they get mocked and laughed at. allah akbar free palestine. laugh at me for being so silly
oh and go ahead and warn me again. its a good feeling to come home to know that you pissed someone off when you were trying to get their goat in the first place
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush rejected several Israeli requests last year for weapons and permission for a potential airstrike inside Iran, the author of an investigative report told CNN.
Israel approached the White House in early 2008 with three requests for an attack on Iran's main nuclear complex, said New York Times reporter David Sanger. His article appears in the newspaper on Sunday.
actually the left despises racism and the reality of pain
also in case nobody knows truth's past he's a single issue voter. he wants hamas in power of the region because he hates gay people and women
stupid personal attacks and patronizing attitude
you do this all the time
hey let me, a white irish catholic male, educate you on why i'm not a racist.
ps
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3042155&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=196#post354898194
keep scrolling :(
legitimate criticisms of hamas: they purposely target civilians, they've used human shields. they are a puppet of iran. they are political islam.
but the other two warns are in direct relation to you making a blatantly antisemitic posts that afura probably only gave you a verbal warn for because he did not want to seem incredibly biased,
the reason people get pissed off at you is you have a habit of posting real juvenile/stereotypical/racist shit. remember that time you argued for eugenics?? or that time you said all jews had a persecution complex???
ps: you've consistently said this is an issue of black and white and good and evil. it is not. Israel is in the wrong here blatantly. that much is clear and obvious to anyone who is not FlowerPower. what's astonishing is you don't realize in order for something to be black and white they must be at the least moral opposites. Hamas is not GOOD PEOPLE. they are still VERY BAD. you can understand them but they are still kind of dicks.
what is condemnable is Israel's actions. this does not mean you have to support Hamas. this is a two sided issue but the two sides are "you agree with Israel's actions" and "you don't agree", not HAMAS OR IDF.
For me this topic is good for two things: Learning more about the conflict and secondly finding out which members are conservative racists.
ps: you've consistently said this is an issue of black and white and good and evil. it is not. Israel is in the wrong here blatantly. that much is clear and obvious to anyone who is not FlowerPower. what's astonishing is you don't realize in order for something to be black and white they must be at the least moral opposites. Hamas is not GOOD PEOPLE. they are still VERY BAD. you can understand them but they are still kind of dicks.
what is condemnable is Israel's actions. this does not mean you have to support Hamas. this is a two sided issue but the two sides are "you agree with Israel's actions" and "you don't agree", not HAMAS OR IDF.
heh you got me there hahamy 'argument for eugenics' was that I believe some day in the very distant future when humans are looking at the very real possibility of colonizing other planets and reaching a new epoch of human history that it will be likely that eugenics will be necessary to pull this off
HAHA HE ARGUED FOR EUGENICS?
For me this topic is good for two things: Learning more about the conflict and secondly finding out which members are conservative racists.
you are a real joke buddy.
my 'argument for eugenics' was that I believe some day in the very distant future when humans are looking at the very real possibility of colonizing other planets and reaching a new epoch of human history that it will be likely that eugenics will be necessary to pull this off
not 'we should kill all the weaklings and retards and sterilize unfit people tomorrow'. sorry for the misunderstanding everybody. its one of those things that you think up when you're really baked, like the possibility of a space elevator to take us to the moon (it obviously isnt going to happen any time soon!)
and honestly if I get pegged as a conservative racist based upon the topic then the jokes on you heh. granted I have quite a history of saying ridiculous things, but these are not things that come up in normal civilized conversation. you have to get me really really fucking angry before I get to the point where I lose all rational sense and say something like 'all jews have a persecution complex'. I mean really.
my 'argument for eugenics' was that I believe some day in the very distant future when humans are looking at the very real possibility of colonizing other planets and reaching a new epoch of human history that it will be likely that eugenics will be necessary to pull this off
not 'we should kill all the weaklings and retards and sterilize unfit people tomorrow'. sorry for the misunderstanding everybody. its one of those things that you think up when you're really baked, like the possibility of a space elevator to take us to the moon (it obviously isnt going to happen any time soon!)
and honestly if I get pegged as a conservative racist based upon the topic then the jokes on you heh
wash cycle this is a dumb point. why would we need eugenics to go to space. christ you're a dummy sometimes.you and I are not even talking about the same thing right now so fuck off lol
why are you still so stuck on eugenics = nazi science
Its advocates regarded it as a social philosophy for the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention.[3] Today it is widely regarded as a brutal movement which inflicted massive human rights violations on millions of people.[4] The movement, led by race scientists, financed by private philanthropies such as the Carnegie Institute and the Rockefeller Foundation and implemented by governments was practised in North America, Europe (particularly Nazi Germany), and Australia (among others). The "interventions" advocated and practised by eugenicists involved prominently the identification and classification of individuals and their families (including the poor, mentally ill, blind, 'promiscuous women', homosexuals) and entire "racial" groups (such as the Roma and Jews) as "degenerate" or "unfit", the segregation or institutionalisation of such individuals and groups, their sterilization, their "euthanasia", and in the worst case of Nazi Germany, their mass extermination.[5] The practices engaged in by eugenicists involving violations of privacy, attacks on reputation, violations of the right to life, to found a family, to discrimination are all today classified as violations of human rights. The practice of negative racial aspects of eugenics, after World War II, fell within the definition of the new international crime of genocide, set out in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.[6]
and honestly if I get pegged as a conservative racist based upon the topic then the jokes on you heh. granted I have quite a history of saying ridiculous things, but these are not things that come up in normal civilized conversation. you have to get me really really fucking angry before I get to the point where I lose all rational sense and say something like 'all jews have a persecution complex'. I mean really.
well thats absolutely not what I'm on about at all
I dont want to eliminate groups of 'unfit people' I want to make everyone more fit
Anyway lets divide every race and separate the weaker from the stronger so that we can explore space!way to ignore everything I've been saying
you're the one with cancer. has that option been presented to you? you do know that they are attempting to cure certain types of cancer with techniques and methods that fall under the category of eugenics? What the hell do you think genetic engineering is all about, mapping our genome, coming up with new technology to work on genetic material. come onyou don't know much about cancer huh. the only way eugenics would cure my type of cancer which was OH SHIT GENETIC is if I wasn't born! I think you're confusing genetic understanding and really basic genetic engineering with eugenics, which is mostly known for SELECTIVE BREEDING. like there are certain instances where it can save lives, like according to wikipedia cyprus made married couples take bloodtests to see if they'd spread a disease to their child, but it's still pretty much SELECTIVE BREEDING, not genetic engineering.
yeah I'm a super horrible person lets all clusterfuck me some more
Wash Cycle, your political positions only underscore the fact that genetic engineering is overkill for space colonization.
I maintain that mind uploading is much more feasible.
Oh, and Hegel is the worst philosopher since Plato. Don't rely on Continentalists to back your positions.
yeah dude I'm not a fucking nazi
[14:22] <CardinalXimenez> The Israel topic is clearly poetic justice for everyone bashing Ron Paul because some racists supported him.
wait when was i accused of zionism??
edit: ps this is not an attack, i just remembered this now. let's have a racist uncle chat. you go.
[/hide]Hidden content (Click to reveal)Photo shows 'Willie Pete' went to Gaza
Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:47:52 GMT
The pale blue 155mm rounds, marked with the designation M825A1, are US-made white phosphorus munitions.
Despite Israeli denial, newly found photographic evidence proves that Israel has used controversial white phosphorus shells on Gazans.
While the use of the solid, waxy synthetic chemical -- also known by the military as WP or Willie Pete -- against civilians is prohibited under international law, there is evidence that Palestinian civilians have been subjected to the chemical weapon.
The Times says it has identified stockpiles of M825A1, an American-made WP munition, from high-resolution pictures taken from Israeli artillery units on the Gaza border.
White phosphorus is used in munitions, to mark enemy targets and to produce smoke for concealing troop movement.
It can also be used as an incendiary device to firebomb enemy positions.
If particles of ignited white phosphorus land on a person's skin, they burn right through flesh to the bone. Toxic phosphoric acid can also be released into wounds, risking phosphorus poisoning.
Exposure to white phosphorus smoke in the air can also cause liver, kidney, heart, lung and bone damage and can even lead to death.
There has been evidence that Palestinian civilians have been injured by the incendiary bombs. A doctor at al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City Hassan Khalass told The Times that he had been treating patients who he believed had been burnt by white phosphorus.
"These explosions are fantastic looking, and produce a great deal of smoke that blinds the enemy so that our forces can move in," said one Israeli security expert.
According to Muhammad Azayzeh, 28, an emergency medical technician in Gaza City "The burns are very unusual. They don't look like burns we have normally seen. They are third-level burns that we can't seem to control."
Following earlier reports that Israeli troops had fired WP shells to screen their assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip, an IDF spokesman denied using phosphorus, adding that Israel was only using weapons that were allowed under international law.
After the emergence of the recent evidence, an IDF spokeswoman claimed that the M825A1 shell was not of a WP type. "This is what we call a quiet shell - it is empty, it has no explosives and no white phosphorus. There is nothing inside it," she said.
However, Neil Gibson, a technical adviser to Jane's Missiles and Rockets, is of a different opinion and insists that the M825A1 is a WP round.
"The M825A1 is an improved model. The WP does not fill the shell but is impregnated into 116 felt wedges which, once dispersed [by a high-explosive charge], start to burn within four to five seconds. They then burn for five to ten minutes. The smoke screen produced is extremely effective," Gibson said.
Tel Aviv had previously admitted to using white phosphorus during the 2006 war with Lebanon.
The International Red Cross has urged a complete ban on phosphorus being used against humans and the third protocol of the Geneva Convention on Conventional Weapons restricts the use of "incendiary weapons" -- phosphorus is considered one such weapon.
Israel and the United States are not signatories to the Third Protocol.
Earlier last week, Dr. Mads Gilbert, a member of a Norwegian triage medical team in Gaza, told Press TV that medics had found depleted uranium in some Gaza residents.
As the Palestinian death toll topped 820 on the fifteenth day of the Israeli offensive against Gaza, the tell-tale shells could spark yet more controversy over Israel's incursion into the impoverished strip.
CS/HGH
also no one cares about the Geneva convention anymore if the US supports the country breaking the rules.
wordsI wanna make sweet eutopic love to the writer of this essay.
[...]second, the need for a struggle against the clergy and other influential reactionary and medieval elements in backward countries;-
third, the need to combat Pan-Islamism and similar trends, which strive to combine the liberation movement against European and American imperialism with an attempt to strengthen the positions of the khans, landowners, mullahs, etc.;[
The pale blue 155mm rounds, marked with the designation M825A1, are US-made white phosphorus munitions.
Despite Israeli denial, newly found photographic evidence proves that Israel has used controversial white phosphorus shells on Gazans.
yeah, i was sitting on the fence regarding my opinions of both but destroying schools AND using illegal weapons (with a typical *shrug shoulders* "we don't know what yo talkin' bout!" response) has put israel on my shit list with idi amin, hitler, and the cop that shot that kid.and this is where they rightfully belong so yeah
NEW YORK (CNN) -- At least nine protesters were arrested in a pro-Palestinian rally Sunday afternoon in New York that injured seven police officers, authorities said.The extent of injuries varied from minor to serious, New York police said. Two officers sustained head injuries.
imm guassing doktormartini???
Keren Levy: They chose Hamas to rule them, it's their fault, they got it to where it is now.
Reporter: Don't you think it gets worse bombing them?
Keren Levy: No I think that is the only solution, I think they should just clear off all the city, just take it off the ground.
Keren Levy: Yes I'm a little bit fascist.
no one understands your strange ape language
Edit: fucking swedes it sounds like
edit edit: no what it sounds like is a deaf person trying to talk while eating peanutbutter
Der vijdeo
More like danish. And yeah, unfortunately I can't understand it. I hear norwegians have an easier time with it though?yeah i could give write down a translation of the entire clip but fuck that shit it's not really interesting outside of what the english-speaking people are saying.
JERUSALEM -- Israel on Monday banned Arab political parties from running in next month's parliamentary elections, drawing accusations of racism by an Arab lawmaker who said he would challenge the decision in the country's Supreme Court.
I haven't followed this that much but it's a pretty scary that this will probably not end until one of the sides has been levelled down to the ground. I mean both sides seem to pretty much be thinking that unless someone wins, every damn rocket they've fired was in vain.
I work at a Jewish camp and one of my coworkers is Jewish and he hates Palestinians he's like, "Israel has rights to the land. If the Palestinians don't give up their land then by 2012 Israel will nuke the area because they believe if they can't have the land then no one should have it!."
something I just heard: if you donate to hamas irl, you get put on the no fly list.
the deliberate and intentional killing of a large number of human beings, under circumstances of atrocity or cruelty, or contrary to "the usages established among civilized peoples" (International Humanitarian Law term from the Martens Clause).
sorry, unless you've got a "haji" friend to back you up on that well i just dont know then.hes always got my back
But yeah my opinion of both sides has pretty much reversed.
Well they are recognized by most of the western world as terrorists!
But yeah my opinion of both sides has pretty much reversed. I gave Israel the benefit of the doubt regarding the school bombing because crazy shit happens in urban warfare due to the military of every developed nation being run by retards with poor communication but Hamas doesn't even have any weapons. They're basically defending against Israel with sticks and stones.
This isn't even a fight. 10 IDF soldiers have died vs. 600 Hamas soldiers. 3 Israeli civilians have died vs. 500+ Gazans. This "conflict" is the equivalent of a 30 year old man boxing a 9 year old kid. This is the 6' tall bully pushing the 4' tall weakling in the mud.
What's the official definition of a massacre because this is pretty much it!
Guys like Fallen-Griever will again try to find an excuse for the use of illegal weapons though.
Heh, you finally see the light! But meh... I think the civilian ratio is almost 3/4, not less than 50%. Plus don't forget to add in the fact that for some fucked up reason even when israel has all of these advanced and sophisticated weapons donated to them from the U.S., they still decide to use illegal weapons such as white phosphorus, DENY that they used it and then get CAUGHT RED HANDED with that shit... And still deny it! You've read the report I posted a page back... Its a known fact that the Palestinians in Gaza have been subjected to the white phosphorus..
So fuck those genocide-mongering, state terrorist LIARS... UGH. Guys like Fallen-Griever will again try to find an excuse for the use of illegal weapons though.
stop posting this. why haven't you realized this is not fair. imagine someone killed your entire family with a missile. then to be fair they said okay you both get a knife fight it out.
your family is dead.
his is not.
stop making EQUIVALENCIES already.
bush was also possibly drunk.word, I thought the guy was high or something
he actually says in the conference, when he's joking about sitting back in a straw hat and hawaiian shirt or something, "that doesn't sound like me, heh *audience laughter* .... particularly now that i've stopped drinking"lots of former alcoholics start suckin' the bong in order to help prevent falling off the wagon.
I'm telling you
he has been drunk for the last 8 years straight man
bush's last press conference: never even mentioned israel's attack. said israel had right to protect self. said cease fire fcould only happen if hamas stopped firing rockets. this was the end of the statement; only hamas has to stop.
bush was also possibly drunk.
^ it's a scorched legless baby maybe you don't want to watch itI wasn't gonna click but now that you said that I have to.
Guys like Fallen-Griever will again try to find an excuse for the use of illegal weapons though.
it would be rubbished just because I happen to support Israel.
Israel forces shell UN HQ in Gaza, destroy thousands of pounds of food and supplies intended for refugees (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians)
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who met with Ban later Thursday, said the military fired artillery shells at the U.N. compound after Hamas militants opened fire from the location. Three people were wounded.That apology is more what you'd say when you get into a fight in grade school, not BURN HUMANITARIAN AID FOR REFUGEES.
"It is absolutely true that we were attacked from that place, but the consequences are very sad and we apologize for it," he said. "I don't think it should have happened and I'm very sorry."
Israel has bombed a Gaza cometary and blows up Gazan graves.
http://palestinevideo.blogspot.com/2009/01/israel-bombs-gaza-cemetery.html
(What excuse are they gonna use now.) (but the dead were gonna rise up and attack us.)
Graves are actually a good place to keep stashes of weapons unnoticed. I say it's pretty fair.
Israel is still pretty disgusting at this point, I'm just saying that it's not without it's purpose.
so are hospitals, bags of food, and children
Israel is still pretty disgusting at this point, I'm just saying that it's not without it's purpose.
What purpose? I was on the "both sides suck" bandwagon but after I looked at the casualty statistics seriously what purpose?
Israel is literally wiping the floor with these guys. Hamas is a rag and Gaza is the floor and Israel is the binge drinking college kid who just puked all over it. Nothing is even being gained from this. Outside of the farmland (lol) there's hardly any natural resources in the Gaza strip and its only purpose is acting as a stepping stool into Israel. The war in Iraq was secretly (lol) about getting oil with the "FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISTS" war banner but Israel's excuse is "we gotta stop them inaccurate rocket attacks/fire works shows *executes child on camera* HOW MANY PEOPLE MUST WE KILL BEFORE YOU STOP THE ROCKETS HAMAS C'MON *burns bag of grain and poisons water*"
They might as well piss on the graves after blowing them up. At least then the flowers will be nourished.
Did I post in this thread without realising it or something..? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't post here yet, so why I am being mentioned escapes me. In fact, the whole reason I didn't post here was because of this type of attitude; I could say anything in defence and, no matter how valid, it would be rubbished just because I happen to support Israel.
To be honest, I don't know what you're actually talking about since I haven't heard anything on the news about illegal weapons. You'd have to link me up.
Israel AGAIN found using illegal weapons:
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=81564§ionid=351020202
For the lazy folks:Hidden content (Click to reveal)Photo shows 'Willie Pete' went to Gaza
Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:47:52 GMT
The pale blue 155mm rounds, marked with the designation M825A1, are US-made white phosphorus munitions.
Despite Israeli denial, newly found photographic evidence proves that Israel has used controversial white phosphorus shells on Gazans.
While the use of the solid, waxy synthetic chemical -- also known by the military as WP or Willie Pete -- against civilians is prohibited under international law, there is evidence that Palestinian civilians have been subjected to the chemical weapon.
The Times says it has identified stockpiles of M825A1, an American-made WP munition, from high-resolution pictures taken from Israeli artillery units on the Gaza border.
White phosphorus is used in munitions, to mark enemy targets and to produce smoke for concealing troop movement.
It can also be used as an incendiary device to firebomb enemy positions.
If particles of ignited white phosphorus land on a person's skin, they burn right through flesh to the bone. Toxic phosphoric acid can also be released into wounds, risking phosphorus poisoning.
Exposure to white phosphorus smoke in the air can also cause liver, kidney, heart, lung and bone damage and can even lead to death.
There has been evidence that Palestinian civilians have been injured by the incendiary bombs. A doctor at al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City Hassan Khalass told The Times that he had been treating patients who he believed had been burnt by white phosphorus.
"These explosions are fantastic looking, and produce a great deal of smoke that blinds the enemy so that our forces can move in," said one Israeli security expert.
According to Muhammad Azayzeh, 28, an emergency medical technician in Gaza City "The burns are very unusual. They don't look like burns we have normally seen. They are third-level burns that we can't seem to control."
Following earlier reports that Israeli troops had fired WP shells to screen their assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip, an IDF spokesman denied using phosphorus, adding that Israel was only using weapons that were allowed under international law.
After the emergence of the recent evidence, an IDF spokeswoman claimed that the M825A1 shell was not of a WP type. "This is what we call a quiet shell - it is empty, it has no explosives and no white phosphorus. There is nothing inside it," she said.
However, Neil Gibson, a technical adviser to Jane's Missiles and Rockets, is of a different opinion and insists that the M825A1 is a WP round.
"The M825A1 is an improved model. The WP does not fill the shell but is impregnated into 116 felt wedges which, once dispersed [by a high-explosive charge], start to burn within four to five seconds. They then burn for five to ten minutes. The smoke screen produced is extremely effective," Gibson said.
Tel Aviv had previously admitted to using white phosphorus during the 2006 war with Lebanon.
The International Red Cross has urged a complete ban on phosphorus being used against humans and the third protocol of the Geneva Convention on Conventional Weapons restricts the use of "incendiary weapons" -- phosphorus is considered one such weapon.
Israel and the United States are not signatories to the Third Protocol.
Earlier last week, Dr. Mads Gilbert, a member of a Norwegian triage medical team in Gaza, told Press TV that medics had found depleted uranium in some Gaza residents.
As the Palestinian death toll topped 820 on the fifteenth day of the Israeli offensive against Gaza, the tell-tale shells could spark yet more controversy over Israel's incursion into the impoverished strip.
CS/HGH
Geneva convention laws broken over and over again...
You're right, I should have come to expect that in this corrupted world of ours ruled by state terrorists. Silly me. (not sarcasm btw)
Also, thousands of Israelis protest against the genocide against Palestinians in Gaza:
http://www.meccho.com/Videos/Thousands_of_Israelis_protest_against_the_war_in_Gaza
This is great. I love informative people..
EDIT: Also, edit the topic title please. Death toll of Palestinians is probably well over 1,000 now... 3/4 innocent civilians, 1/3 children..
Israel forces shell UN HQ in Gaza, destroy thousands of pounds of food and supplies intended for refugees (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians)
This is just....utterly disgusting.
At least 300 children are among the more than 1,000 Palestinians who have died since Israel began to bombard the Gaza Strip on December 27.Hidden content (Click to reveal)Al Jazeera has obtained the names of 210 of the young victims, 44 of which were under five years old.
Date Name Gender Age
27/12/2008 Ibtihal Kechko Girl 10
Ahmed Riad Mohammed Al-Sinwar Boy 3
Ahmed Al-Homs Boy 18
Ahmed Rasmi Abu Jazar Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Halabi Boy 18
Tamer Hassan Al-Akhrass Boy 5
Hassan Ali Al-Akhrass Boy 3
Haneen Wael Mohammed Daban Girl 15
Khaled Sami Al-Astal Boy 15
alaat Mokhless Bassal Boy 18
Aaed Imad Kheera Boy 14
Abdullah Al-Rayess Boy 17
Odai Hakeem Al-Mansi Boy 4
Allam Nehrou Idriss Boy 18
Ali Marwan Abu Rabih Boy 18
Anan Saber Atiyah Boy 13
Camelia Al-Bardini Girl 10
Lama Talal Hamdan Girl 10
Mohammed Jaber Howeij Boy 17
Nimr Mustafa Amoom Boy 10
29/12/2008 Ismail Talal Hamdan Boy 10
Ahmed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Ahmed Youssef Khello Boy 18
Ikram Anwar Baaloosha Girl 14
Tahrier Anwar Baaloosha Girl 17
Jihad Saleh Ghobn Boy 10
Jawaher Anwar Baaloosha Girl 8
Dina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Samar Anwar Baaloosha Girl 6
Shady Youssef Ghobn Boy 12
Sudqi Ziad Al-Absi Boy 3
Imad Nabeel Abou Khater Boy 16
Lina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Mohammed Basseel Madi Boy 17
Mohammed Jalal Abou Tair Boy 18
Mohammed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Mahmoud Nabeel Ghabayen Boy 15
Moaz Yasser Abou Tair Boy 6
Wissam Akram Eid Girl 14
30/12/2008 Haya Talal Hamdan Girl 8
31/12/2008 Ahmed Kanouh Boy 10
Ameen Al-Zarbatlee Boy 10
Mohammed Nafez Mohaissen Boy 10
Mustafa Abou Ghanimah Boy 16
Yehya Awnee Mohaissen Boy 10
Ossman Bin Zaid Nizar Rayyan Boy 3
Assaad Nizar Rayyan Boy 2
Moaz-Uldeen Allah Al-Nasla Boy 5
Aya Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Halima Nizar Rayyan Girl 5
Reem Nizar Rayyan Boy 4
Aicha Nizar Rayyan Girl 3
Abdul Rahman Nizar Rayyan Boy 6
Abdul Qader Nizar Rayyan Boy 12
Oyoon Jihad Al-Nasla Girl 16
Mahmoud Mustafa Ashour Boy 13
Maryam Nizar Rayyan Girl 5
01/01/2009 Hamada Ibrahim Mousabbah Boy 10
Zeinab Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Sujud Mahmoud Al-Derdesawi Girl 10
Abdul Sattar Waleed Al-Astal Boy 12
Abed Rabbo Iyyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 10
Ghassan Nizar Rayyan Boy 15
Christine Wadih El-Turk Boy 6
Mohammed Mousabbah Boy 14
Mohammed Iyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 13
Mahmoud Samsoom Boy 16
Ahmed Tobail Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 17
Hassan Hejjo Boy 14
Rajeh Ziadeh Boy 18
Shareef Abdul Mota Armeelat Boy 15
Mohammed Moussa Al-Silawi Boy 10
Mahmoud Majed Mahmoud Abou Nahel Boy 16
Mohannad Al-Tatnaneeh Boy 18
Hani Mohammed Al-Silawi Boy 10
01/01/2009 Ahmed Al-Meshharawi Boy 16
Ahmed Khodair Sobaih Boy 17
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 18
Asraa Kossai Al-Habash Girl 10
Assad Khaled Al-Meshharawi Boy 17
Asmaa Ibrahim Afana Girl 12
Ismail Abdullah Abou Sneima Boy 4
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 18
Aya Ziad Al-Nemr Girl 8
Ahmed Mohammed Al-Adham Boy 1
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 13
Hamza Zuhair Tantish Boy 12
Khalil Mohammed Mokdad Boy 18
Ruba Mohammed Fadl Abou-Rass Girl 13
Ziad Mohammed Salma Abou Sneima Boy 9
Shaza Al-Abed Al-Habash Girl 16
Abed Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 12
Attia Rushdi Al-Khawli Boy 16
Luay Yahya Abou Haleema Boy 17
Mohammed Akram Abou Harbeed Boy 18
Mohammed Abed Berbekh Boy 18
Mohammed Faraj Hassouna Boy 16
Mahmoud Khalil Al-Mashharawi Boy 12
Mahmoud Zahir Tantish Boy 17
Mahmoud Sami Assliya Boy 3
Moussa Youssef Berbekh Boy 16
Wi'am Jamal Al-Kafarneh Girl 2
Wadih Ayman Omar Boy 4
Youssef Abed Berbekh Boy 10
05/01/2009 Ibrahim Rouhee Akl Boy 17
Ibrahim Abdullah Merjan Boy 13
Ahmed Attiyah Al-Semouni Boy 4
Aya Youssef Al-Defdah Girl 13
Aya Al-Sersawi Girl 5
Ahmed Amer Abou Eisha Boy 5
Ameen Attiyah Al-Semouni Boy 4
Hazem Alewa Boy 8
Khalil Mohammed Helless Boy 12
Diana Mosbah Saad Girl 17
Raya Al-Sersawi Girl 5
Rahma Mohammed Al-Semouni Girl 18
Ramadan Ali Felfel Boy 14
Rahaf Ahmed Saeed Al-Azaar Girl 4
Shahad Mohammed Hijjih Girl 3
Arafat Mohammed Abdul Dayem Boy 10
Omar Mahmoud Al-Baradei Boy 12
Ghaydaa Amer Abou Eisha Girl 6
Fathiyya Ayman Al-Dabari Girl 4
Faraj Ammar Al-Helou Boy 2
Moumen Alewah Boy 9
Moumen Mahmoud Talal Alaw Boy 10
Mohammed Amer Abu Eisha Boy 8
Mahmoud Mohammed Abu Kamar Boy 15
Marwan Hein Kodeih Girl 6
Montasser Alewah Boy 12
Naji Nidal Al-Hamlawi Boy 16
Nada Redwan Mardi Girl 5
Hanadi Bassem Khaleefa Girl 13
06/01/2009 Ibrahim Ahmed Maarouf Boy 14
Ahmed Shaher Khodeir Boy 14
Ismail Adnan Hweilah Boy 15
Aseel Moeen Deeb Boy 17
Adam Mamoun Al-Kurdee Boy 3
Alaa Iyad Al-Daya Girl 8
Areej Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 3 months
Amani Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 4
Baraa Ramez Al-Daya Girl 2
Bilal Hamza Obaid Boy 15
Thaer Shaker Karmout Boy 17
Hozaifa Jihad Al-Kahloot Boy 17
Khitam Iyad Al-Daya Girl 9
Rafik Abdul Basset Al-Khodari Boy 15
Raneen Abdullah saleh Girl 12
Zakariya Yahya Al-Taweel Boy 5
Sahar Hatem Dawood Girl 10
Salsabeel Ramez Al-Daya Girl 6 months
Sharafuldeen Iyad Al-Daya Boy 7
Doha Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 5
Ahed Iyad Kodas Boy 15
Abdullah Mohammed Abdullah Boy 10
Issam Sameer Deeb Boy 12
Alaa Ismail Ismail Boy 18
Ali Iyad Al-Daya Boy 10
Imad Abu Askar Boy 18
Filasteen Al-Daya Girl 5
Kamar Mohammed Al-Daya Boy 3
Lina Abdul Menem Hassan Girl 10
Unidentified Boy 9
Unidentified Boy 15
Mohammed Iyad Al-Daya Boy 6
Mohammed Bassem Shakoura Boy 10
Mohammed Bassem Eid Boy 18
Mohammed Deeb Boy 17
Mohammed Eid Boy 18
Mustafa Moeen Deeb Boy 12
Noor Moeen Deeb Boy 2
Youssef Saad Al-Kahloot Boy 17
Youssef Mohammed Al-Daya Boy 1
07/01/2009 Ibrahim Kamal Awaja Boy 9
Ahmed Jaber Howeij Boy 7
Ahmed Fawzi Labad Boy 18
Ayman Al-Bayed Boy 16
Amal Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 3
Toufic Khaled Al-Khahloot Boy 10
Habeeb Khaled Al-Khahloot Boy 12
Houssam Raed Sobeh Boy 12
Hassan Rateb Semaan Boy 18
Hassan Ata Hassan Azzam Boy 2
Redwan Mohammed Ashoor Boy 10
Suad Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 6
Samar Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 2
Abdul Rahman Mohammmed Ashoor Boy 12
Fareed Ata Hassan Azzam Boy 13
Mohammed Khaled Al-Kahloot Boy 15
Mohammed Samir Hijji Boy 16
Mohammed Fareed Al-Maasawabi Boy 16
Mohammed Moeen Deeb Boy 17
Mohammed Nasseem Salama Saba Boy 16
Mahmoud Hameed Boy 17
Hamam Issa Boy 1
08/01/2009 Anas Arif Abou Baraka Boy 7
Ibrahim Akram Abou Dakkka Boy 12
Ibrahim Moeen Jiha Boy 15
Baraa Iyad Shalha Girl 6
Basma Yasser Al-Jeblawi Girl 5
Shahd Saad Abou Haleema Girl 15
Azmi Diab Boy 16
Mohammed Akram Abou Dakka Boy 14
Mohammed Hikmat Abou Haleema Boy 17
Ibrahim Moeen Jiha Boy 15
Matar Saad Abou Haleema Boy 17
09/01/2009 Ahmed Ibrahim Abou Kleik Boy 17
Ismail Ayman Yasseen Boy 18
Alaa Ahmed Jaber Girl 11
Baha-Uldeen Fayez Salha Girl 5
Rana Fayez Salha Girl 12
Rola Fayez Salha Girl 13
Diyaa-Uldeen Fayez Salah Boy 14
Ghanima Sultan Halawa Girl 11
Fatima Raed Jadullah Girl 10
Mohammed Atef Abou Al-Hussna Boy 15
Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, justified shelling the UN headquarters claiming armed Palestinians within it had fired at Israeli troops first.
"It is absolutely true that we were attacked from that place … but the consequences were very sad and I apologise for it," he said.
However, Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for Unrwa, robustly denied that Palestinian fighters were among refugees sheltering there.
"At no stage during the fighting today did any Israeli official pick up the phone and tell us there were militants in our compound.
"We always take action against militants ... there were no militants in our compound and now they [the Israelis] are changing their story, saying militants were 'in the vicinity'," he said.
Gunness called for a "proper investigation" into the incident.
Louis Michel, the European Aid Commissioner, also condemned the bombing of the UN complex, branding it "unacceptable".
"I am deeply shocked and dismayed to learn of this incident ... I have made it very clear that all sides must respect international humanitarian law.
"It is unacceptable that the UN headquarters in Gaza has been struck by Israeli artillery fire," he said.[/u]
Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, strongly condemned the incident and demanded a full explanation from Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, during talks held on Thursday in Tel Aviv.
Ban said Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had apologised for the attack describing it as a "grave mistake".
A Red Crescent office near Gaza City and the main mosque in the southern city of Rafah were also shelled as the Israelis pushed deeper into the Strip.
Two buildings housing international journalists in Gaza have also been bombed by Israeli forces.
man, you are annoying as hell. you have the RELIGIOUS FERVOR AND INTENSITY of conservative-era Truth and even though i think you're on the right side of the issue, please quit posting in this topic.
A statement such as this shows your total lack of knowledge in Islamic Fiqh, Qu'ranic Tafseers and the context of Sahih Ahadeeth. Talk to credible scholars such as Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah, Imam Zaid Shakir or Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf and they'll completely tear you apart with a bullshit statement such as that. I didn't buy into no 'propaganda bullshit'. I have lived both lives. The life of a Christian and the life of a Muslim. As a person who has had first hand experience in living both lives, I can clearly see the vast amount of differences in the two religions. What Soulmann said was one of the major examples with the whole trinity aspect. There are various other major differences that will take too long to explain here.
you know i don't get any satisfaction of letting people know what i think about this cos i see pictures of dying babies and i don't have anything to offer. what can i do about that? i don't want to do something futile, cos a "you should stop doing this!!!" protest won't make me feel better if it's all just noise. and that's all this seems like. noise, while babies get killed.
israel really knows how to run a hearts and minds campaign. like, the only way they could look worse now is if they stole food from a baby then burned it to a char.looks like they're way ahead of you on that one judging from dok's youtube link.
magical pidgeotto
human life only applies to 3 day old fetuses*, not palestinian children
dont be a shadow kirby ryan!
What's terrible about the facebook status thing is that there's an equivalent pro-Israel one that says something like "...6 rockets shot into Israel so far!" which is laughable that people are HORRIFIED OF SUGAR ROCKETS when there is mass genocide going on.This is the one I was talking about I added this one too I'm thinking about getting rid of it but then people will be like, "lol you support Hamas."
The worse part is besides Steel there is no one on my facebook feed that has the pro-Palestinian one but 5+ people who have the pro-Israel one.
What's terrible about the facebook status thing is that there's an equivalent pro-Israel one that says something like "...6 rockets shot into Israel so far!" which is laughable that people are HORRIFIED OF SUGAR ROCKETS when there is mass genocide going on.put the youtube link that dok posted earlier in your status update.
The worse part is besides Steel there is no one on my facebook feed that has the pro-Palestinian one but 5+ people who have the pro-Israel one.
This is the one I was talking about I added this one too I'm thinking about getting rid of it but then people will be like, "lol you support Hamas."
Gaza residents waving white flags shot as they flee their homes / Death toll up to 952 with half estimated as women and children (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/gaza-residents-waving-white-flags-shot-dead-as-they-flee-their-homes-14138998.html)Oh man... the... the comments!
Using the Huffington Post for accurate information is like reading mein kampf to learn about race relations.
The bravery of zionist soldiers is amazing. They will probably be given medals of honor in the UK and USA.
what does this mean other than adding I AM A FRENCH CANADIAN to every post??
Still call yourself a fucking Israeli supporter even after all of this bullshit?
good lord you are terrible.
Yes, because however heartless it might sound, I don't actually care when civilians are killed in warfare. I don't care when children are killed in warfare. That is what happens in war, and to pretend otherwise is plain naive and childish.Oh God.
It's okay to try and be idealistic and say that civilians shouldn't die in warfare but that's just not how it works. Have the Americans and Brits posting in this thread already forgotten the civilian toll of our invasion into Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/)? Sure, people say they don't support the Iraq war, but there certainly isn't the same shitstorm about it as there is about this dispute. So, sorry if I don't care about civilians dying in warfare, because that's just how warfare is.
Another reason I support Israel's actions is because of opinion I have concerning the history of modern warfare in general. For instance, the nuclear missiles dropped on Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki) killed only civilians but I still think they were the correct choice to bring to a close a long, drawn out conflict. I also think that the obliteration of Dresden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II) was completely called for to gain revenge for the the blitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz). In a wholly military sense, I actually think Germany's blitz strategy was a good one, despite the many English civilians it killed. Seriously, if you are at war then there are no civilians; the idea is to make the other side submit to whatever it is you want, and you don't achieve that by nancying around and playing nice. Thinking otherwise, too, is naive.
The last real reason I support Israel is this: if any country fired a missile at England I would want the RAF to carpet-bomb the shit out of whatever area the missile came from. Pure and simple, really. I support the right for a country to do everything it needs to do to irradicate any attacks (of any nature) being carried out on it. And if this means wiping Gaza off the map then Hamas will only have themselves to blame for making the stupid move of engaging a far larger nation.
To be honest, at the end of it all, I know that Hamas certainly isn't trying to distingiush between civilians and IDF forces, so I don't see why Israel should be expected to distinguish between Hamas Militants and Gaza civilians. Is there one set of rules for Hamas and one set of rules for the IDF? I don't support the use of illegal weapons like P-Shells, and if those accusations are proven then I would condemn that, but I do support Israel's right to bomb the hell out of a country that continues to fire missiles at it. And like I said, I don't care if the firepower is a mismatch, I am much more interested in the intent.
Yes, because however heartless it might sound, I don't actually care when civilians are killed in warfare. I don't care when children are killed in warfare. That is what happens in war, and to pretend otherwise is plain naive and childish. It's okay to try and be idealistic and say that civilians shouldn't die in warfare but that's just not how it works. Have the Americans and Brits posting in this thread already forgotten the civilian toll of our invasion into Iraq? Sure, people say they don't support the Iraq war, but there certainly isn't the same shitstorm about it as there is about this dispute. So, sorry if I don't care about civilians dying in warfare, because that's just how warfare is.
Another reason I support Israel's actions is because of opinion I have concerning the history of modern warfare in general. For instance, the nuclear missiles dropped on Japan killed only civilians but I still think they were the correct choice to bring to a close a long, drawn out conflict. I also think that the obliteration of Dresden was completely called for to gain revenge for the the blitz. In a wholly military sense, I actually think Germany's blitz strategy was a good one, despite the many English civilians it killed. Seriously, if you are at war then there are no civilians; the idea is to make the other side submit to whatever it is you want, and you don't achieve that by nancying around and playing nice. Thinking otherwise, too, is naive.
The last real reason I support Israel is this: if any country fired a missile at England I would want the RAF to carpet-bomb the shit out of whatever area the missile came from. Pure and simple, really. I support the right for a country to do everything it needs to do to irradicate any attacks (of any nature) being carried out on it. And if this means wiping Gaza off the map then Hamas will only have themselves to blame for making the stupid move of engaging a far larger nation.
Is there one set of rules for Hamas and one set of rules for the IDF?
I don't care when children are killed in warfare.
the nuclear missiles dropped on Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki) killed only civilians but I still think they were the correct choice
the obliteration of Dresden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II) was completely called for
I don't see why Israel should be expected to distinguish between Hamas Militants and Gaza civilians.
I do support Israel's right to bomb the hell out of a country
pictures of dead babies aren't going to make me flinch.
You're the most horrible human being I've ever seen on this forum. In fact, I'm not even sure if you're a human being at all.
tempbanned him for one day, what a horrible person.I'd rather he's around to try and defend his stupid views!
nah I think we've all had plenty of opportunity to take out our frustrations toward this situation so far in this topic. what is the point of having the same argument again just with someone else as the focal point of everyone else's rageBecause there's always something to it. Why does he feel that way? Maybe he really does think that civilians are just pieces of meat, and that the purpose of war is to completely annihilate the other country without regarding its (human) capital. If so, would he understand it if some other country (say... Oman) declared war on the U.S. due to President Obama's eristic anti-Middle East policies and sent in troops to start executing every civilian in sight? Would he find it an understandable war tactic for them to do so or would he argue that he has nothing to do with his country's administration's choice in policy?
the sad thing about israel is that they draft their soldiers. all of us americanfags are volunteers but if you're 18 and live in israel you have no fucking choice!
Yes, because however heartless it might sound, I don't actually care when civilians are killed in warfare. I don't care when children are killed in warfare. That is what happens in war, and to pretend otherwise is plain naive and childish. It's okay to try and be idealistic and say that civilians shouldn't die in warfare but that's just not how it works. Have the Americans and Brits posting in this thread already forgotten the civilian toll of our invasion into Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/)? Sure, people say they don't support the Iraq war, but there certainly isn't the same shitstorm about it as there is about this dispute. So, sorry if I don't care about civilians dying in warfare, because that's just how warfare is.
Take off the rose tinted glasses.
Another reason I support Israel's actions is because of opinion I have concerning the history of modern warfare in general. For instance, the nuclear missiles dropped on Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki) killed only civilians but I still think they were the correct choice to bring to a close a long, drawn out conflict. I also think that the obliteration of Dresden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II) was completely called for to gain revenge for the the blitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz). In a wholly military sense, I actually think Germany's blitz strategy was a good one, despite the many English civilians it killed. Seriously, if you are at war then there are no civilians; the idea is to make the other side submit to whatever it is you want, and you don't achieve that by nancying around and playing nice. Thinking otherwise, too, is naive.
The last real reason I support Israel is this: if any country fired a missile at England I would want the RAF to carpet-bomb the shit out of whatever area the missile came from. Pure and simple, really. I support the right for a country to do everything it needs to do to irradicate any attacks (of any nature) being carried out on it. And if this means wiping Gaza off the map then Hamas will only have themselves to blame for making the stupid move of engaging a far larger nation.
To be honest, at the end of it all, I know that Hamas certainly isn't trying to distingiush between civilians and IDF forces, so I don't see why Israel should be expected to distinguish between Hamas Militants and Gaza civilians. Is there one set of rules for Hamas and one set of rules for the IDF? I don't support the use of illegal weapons like P-Shells, and if those accusations are proven then I would condemn that, but I do support Israel's right to bomb the hell out of a country that continues to fire missiles at it. And like I said, I don't care if the firepower is a mismatch, I am much more interested in the intent.
Those are my reasons, and pictures of dead babies aren't going to make me flinch.
I hope you fucking die you horrible Fuck.
yeah its obvious that fallen griever is just a stupid manchild whose worldview is shaped by the animes hes watched. innocent people dying? heh....death means nothing to me *smirk*
he sounds like every other 13 year old who has stumbled into a forum topic about war or politics. the only difference is he's in his 20s which is just massively depressing. either way you guys really shouldn't be taking his opinion seriously at all.
I think fallen-griever and nackstar should be relocated together to a rock in the middle of the atlantic with only enough supplies for one person and no hope for rescue so they can apply their world views on each other.
Moving on, can we start hearing about what the world has to say about this? Of course people should be kept posted about any changes but I thought it would be nice to hear what your local news and/or other countries feel about this.
I thought this was pretty interesting.
Ontario union calls for ban on Israeli Professors
I heard a few profs from Israeli speak and my god I never heard so much propaganda construed in one speech before. Of course not all of them are bad but I guess they wanted to start making some changes I guess?
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israel bombarded dozens of Hamas targets Saturday hours before a government vote on an Egyptian brokered cease-fire, prompting Egypt to demand an immediate halt to a three-week-old Gaza offensive.
The proposal calls for a unilateral Israeli cease-fire in its initial stage, but Hamas has sent mixed signals on whether it would reciprocate.
Hamas' exiled leadership vowed to continue the fight against Israel. But after weeks of heavy losses, leaders inside Gaza have signaled they are ready for a deal. A Hamas delegation was in Cairo for more truce negotiations.
All I can hope for is that Hamas decides to think rationally and accept the terms of the ceasefire so we don't have more civilian deaths.
This is what a white phosphorus bomb looks like when it hits a school yard (Click to reveal)(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/fosforgroot.jpeg)
Jesus Christ. I urge everyone to PLEASE think rationally about this and do the only sane thing. Donate. I am, with no expense spared. We have to try and get everyone we know to make donations. It's easy, and will cost you nothing in the long run. When we save the lives of others, we are not really losing anything at all. You just have to click this link http://apps.facebook.com/supportisrael and donate your Facebook status to Israel.
wait i think i read this wrong before i warned you for it.No. It doesn't really matter who was responsible for the deaths in the past, they have already happened. However, future deaths are preventable. Hamas doesn't want to accept the ceasefire because Israeli troops will remain stationed in their territory. However, by not accepting the ceasefire, it will result in more fighting, and thus, more civilian deaths. Future civilian deaths would be almost entirely Hamas' fault, past civilian deaths are not.
are you pinning blame on hamas for the civilian deaths or what
I hope you fucking die you horrible Fuck. you should be disgusted about yourself. Honestly.
why was he not warned for thisi would sooner warn you for rampant stupidity/denial than warn him because he told some faggot we banned for being an e-monster that he should go choke on a dick.
it wouldve been a good post if he hadnt told him to go die
told some faggot we banned for being an e-monster that he should go choke on a dick.
except he did.and yet it was still better than any post you have made in this or any other topic of significance. HMMM lemme see, an angry/flaming post that is still right/justified, or many boring flowerpower posts that are hopelessly ignorant and stupid beyond belief. which should be warned?? i would rather have someone be MEAN AND RIGHT than nice and incredibly dumb.
all those fags need to choke on some dicks and die huh, lol
the hamas leadership are a bunch of gutless rats hiding in exile while forcing hard working folk to die for their pathetic ideas.
chainer is the saddest post...
also WE'VE KILELD A THOUSAND PEOPLE!
TIME TO STOP AND HAVE NO REPRECUSSIONS!
Thanks for keeping me up to date on your latest warns, Ryan.
what does this meanYour last four posts were about warning people! Five if you include this one.
so Israel ceases fire because USA is having a new president too soon now
And yet Hamas decides it is a good idea to fire some more missiles at Israel, provoking another set of air strikes...I read this on my local newspaper earlier
The cease-fire remained shaky as drones buzzed overhead Sunday. Hamas militants fired 16 rockets before their Gaza leaders announced their own cease-fire. Plumes of smoke from an Israeli missile also rose over Gaza City's outskirts in the afternoon, and Israeli snipers blocked access through the Strip's main north-south road.
well a lot of people are volunteering to fight with Hamas because they represent the only visible pole of militant opposition in a pretty hopeless situation and make appeals to very strong religious/cultural beliefs among the Islamic population in Gaza.
Not to say that they're correct, goodguys, or should be supported at all, but i just don't think it's accurate to characterize them as some all group drafting unwilling civilians as cannon fodder.
Palestinian militants fired about 20 rockets over the border after the Israeli ceasefire announcement, and Israel responded with an air attack.
That sounds like the same thing that I posted, it was after the Israeli ceasefire but before the Gaza one. Until the Gaza leaders declared their ceasefire, wouldn't the people firing rockets assume that they're supposed to keep doing it? They hadn't been ordered to STOP yet, what if (for some horrible reason) the Gaza leaders decided against a ceasefire from their side?Yeah, I think you are right :)
I mean I don't know if that makes the situation any better but that's what it sounds like.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836660.stm
Israel to pull out of Gaza by Obama inauguration
CONFLICT IN FIGURES
More than 1,300 Palestinians killed
Thirteen Israeli deaths
More than 4,000 buildings destroyed in Gaza, more than 20,000 severely damaged
50,800 Gazans homeless and 400,000 without running water
ya my wife and children were burned alive by the illegal weapons the israeli military used on us, I am making intelligent, sane decisions right now. it's friggin logic people! take a fuxxin philosophy course for cripes sake!!
People are right to point out that Hamas hadn't agreed to the ceasefire and so were under no obligation to stop firing missiles, but that wasn't my argument. My argument was that firing rockets at a stronger nation when that nation has decided to stop attacking you is a stupid decision; if a far stronger nation says it is going to stop attacking then an intelligent, sane leadership would instinctively know that it was in their best interest not to give that nation any reason to change their mind. An intelligent leadership would understand that pursuing the many diplomatic options available to them would be a better idea, especially as the diplomatic community has been clamouring for years to find a peaceful resolution. Clearly, Hamas does not have an intelligent leadership, and that was my point. Israel has absolutely nothing to lose by attacking Gaza, especially with the strong American support it has, yet Hamas has everything to lose so there is no logic in continuing to provoke Israel.
Maybe Hamas should apply some head over heart policies.
Amazing what they get away with isn't it.....
Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons? Answer:Israel.
Q: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections? Answer:Israel.
Q: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions? Answer:Israel.
Q: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire? Answer:Israel.
Q: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)? Answer:Israel.
Q: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated? Answer: Israel.
Q: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated? Answer: Israel.
Q: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union? Answer: Israel.
Q: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon? Answer: Israel.
Q. What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody? Answer: Israel
Q. What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque. Answer: Israel
Q: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders? Answer: Israel.
Q. Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children? Answer: Israel
Q: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes? Answer: Israel.
Q. Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the U.S.? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East routinely insults the American people by having its Prime Minister address the United States Congress and lecturing them like children on why they have no right to reduce foreign aid? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control America?" Answer: Israel
Q. What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International for demolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic cleansing. Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly populated area killing 15 civilians including 9 children? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles, bulldozers, or tanks? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more than 270 new settlements since the signing? Answer: Israel
Q. Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of civilians in the process, including dozens of children? Answer: Israel
Q.. Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire villages while people are still in their homes? Answer: Israel
Changes in your ranks:apparantly im not really useful :crazy:
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People are right to point out that Hamas hadn't agreed to the ceasefire and so were under no obligation to stop firing missiles, but that wasn't my argument. My argument was that firing rockets at a stronger nation when that nation has decided to stop attacking you is a stupid decision; if a far stronger nation says it is going to stop attacking then an intelligent, sane leadership would instinctively know that it was in their best interest not to give that nation any reason to change their mind. An intelligent leadership would understand that pursuing the many diplomatic options available to them would be a better idea, especially as the diplomatic community has been clamouring for years to find a peaceful resolution. Clearly, Hamas does not have an intelligent leadership, and that was my point. Israel has absolutely nothing to lose by attacking Gaza, especially with the strong American support it has, yet Hamas has everything to lose so there is no logic in continuing to provoke Israel.
Maybe Hamas should apply some head over heart policies.
People are right to point out that Hamas hadn't agreed to the ceasefire and so were under no obligation to stop firing missiles, but that wasn't my argument. My argument was that firing rockets at a stronger nation when that nation has decided to stop attacking you is a stupid decision; if a far stronger nation says it is going to stop attacking then an intelligent, sane leadership would instinctively know that it was in their best interest not to give that nation any reason to change their mind. An intelligent leadership would understand that pursuing the many diplomatic options available to them would be a better idea, especially as the diplomatic community has been clamouring for years to find a peaceful resolution. Clearly, Hamas does not have an intelligent leadership, and that was my point. Israel has absolutely nothing to lose by attacking Gaza, especially with the strong American support it has, yet Hamas has everything to lose so there is no logic in continuing to provoke Israel.
Maybe Hamas should apply some head over heart policies.
You're still here? And spouting nonsense? I'm gonna pull a Ryan out of my hat. Observe: 'you're really dumb'. That just about sums up your latest post.
god whats it like being you. i bet someone says "heh bring it" and then you attempt to but somehow end up in bed with your own mother.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is God able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is God both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is God neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - David Hume.
How would diplomatic means work in this situation? How can they TALK IT OUT?
Hamas: Hey Israel, we want this country.
Israel: Nah, bro, it's ours.
Hamas: Well, dude...we definitely want it. Can we have it?
Israel: No way, sorry, it's ours.
The whole basis of their fighting means that they can NEVER just talk it out.
To which you'd probably just reply "heh well RETARDS why don't you just give up then you'll never win!!! this whole organization is just DUMB i should know" but sorry the world doesn't work like that.
How would diplomatic means work in this situation? How can they TALK IT OUT?
Hamas: Hey Israel, we want this country.
Israel: Nah, bro, it's ours.
Hamas: Well, dude...we definitely want it. Can we have it?
Israel: No way, sorry, it's ours.
The whole basis of their fighting means that they can NEVER just talk it out.
Diplomacy isn't about the past, it is about moving into the future. Hamas should be looking to take Gaza forward by creating a better state, and the first steps towards this are burying conflicts that are routed entirely in the past. States can not go around claiming parts of other states as their own based on historical reasoning and should instead focus on making the land they do have better for the civilians who live under them. Seriously, look at how WWII started; it was because of the attempt by Germany to retake lands that it claimed historically belonged to Germany. And I only used WWII because most people will know enough about it, other examples are scattered throughout history.
If you think Hamas has this right, the right to demand land based on historical reasons, then perhaps the Americans in this thread should be giving America back to the Natives, and the same with Australians etc. etc. etc.
Diplomacy isn't about the past, it is about moving into the future. Hamas should be looking to take Gaza forward by creating a better state, and the first steps towards this are burying conflicts that are routed entirely in the past. States can not go around claiming parts of other states as their own based on historical reasoning and should instead focus on making the land they do have better for the civilians who live under them. Seriously, look at how WWII started; it was because of the attempt by Germany to retake lands that it claimed historically belonged to Germany. And I only used WWII because most people will know enough about it, other examples are scattered throughout history.We should give it back to the native
If you think Hamas has this right, the right to demand land based on historical reasons, then perhaps the Americans in this thread should be giving America back to the Natives, and the same with Australians etc. etc. etc.
We should give it back to the native
We should give it back to the native
Dude you do not get the point here. Hamas isn't GOING to give up, they have no intention of giving up and they are willing to die to reclaim what they believe is their land. Diplomacy can't fix this, and I don't see how you think it will (unless you think Hamas is going to get on GW and go "oh god this kid is right what are we doing let's stop lads!"). If it was as simple as that they would have solved this a long time ago, but neither side is going to budge, and this is why they are fighting.
fffff when the fuck did i ever say any of this was right, i'm just saying THIS IS WHAT THEY THINK
I don't think he realizes just how recently the land was taken away from the Palestinians.
Hamas knows that by provoking Israel it is likely to bring more airstrikes, attacks and deaths to the Gazan civilians yet it still decides to provoke Israel anyway. Why? It's completely retarded. It's like a nerdy kid firing spitballs at a jock, it just isn't going to end well.So your entire argument revolves around "they had it coming".
Wow, and people are saying I am stupid.Can you think of a better word for someone who apparently doesn't care very much whether people live or die?
Why did you quote my sig, it has nothing to do with this topic...It is stupid.
So your entire argument revolves around "they had it coming".
Might I remind you that >1300 people were killed and >50000 were made homeless? And you think these innocent civilians who don't pull the shots on what Hamas does "had it coming"?
Can you think of a better word for someone who apparently doesn't care very much whether people live or die?
It is stupid.
It's exactly those people who the Hamas leaders should be thinking about when they're provoking airstrikes and infantry attacks. Instead of hiding in exile they should be seeking a solution that isn't going to get their people blown into oblivion. Any suffering exacted on the people of Gaza is the fault of those leaders, but I guess that is what happens when you vote terrorists into power (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/1508974/Terrorists-voted-into-power.html) isn't it?It's very difficult for me to pinpoint why you would think this. I know that everything you're saying is horrible, but I'm trying to figure out exactly how one would come to think of things this way. What bothers me the most about you is that you've got the tendency to group individuals together into something you can criticize. Just like right now; you refer to the people of Gaza as "those who voted terrorists into power" and call their being mindlessly slaughtered an appropriate punishment, in spite of the fact that you should never assume that the attributes of a group apply to individual members of that group.
So, did the Gazan people have it coming? In a harsh way, yes.
Really? David Hume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume) was one of the most respected philosophers of his era. But I guess you didn't know that...Was he also a respected manga author or did someone else draw that crying anime guy in fetus position holding his knees to his chest?
in spite of the fact that you should never assume that the attributes of a group apply to individual members of that group.
Was he also a respected manga author or did someone else draw that crying anime guy in fetus position holding his knees to his chest?
Aren't we supposed to be accountable for those we vote into power and accountable for removing them when we think they are doing a bad job?
But, yeah, if you vote in inane leadership then you deserve the consequences of doing so. The Western world is suffering the consequence of recession for voting in incompetent leadership, Gaza is suffering the consequences of military aggression for voting in terrorists.
Obviously not, but I was speaking of the body politic. I wasn't speaking of any individual.What you are doing is taking the abstract idea of "all Palestinian people" and then using that idea to apply all sorts of causalities to individuals. You say that "all Palestinians" are accountable for their leadership, but that notion doesn't actually hold any real meaning. People are being killed, and you say it is a logical result of them having made bad decisions. Even if we ignore the fact that people are stupid and can be strongly influenced to vote against their best interests (see: America in 2000 and 2004), what you can't ignore is the fact that individuals are not necessarily prototypes for their group.
But, yeah, if you vote in inane leadership then you deserve the consequences of doing so. The Western world is suffering the consequence of recession for voting in incompetent leadership, Gaza is suffering the consequences of military aggression for voting in terrorists.I didn't vote for Bush. I didn't even have any say in that. My country and continent both support strict market regulations, but we still got hit by the economic turndown. So much for causality.
Oh, you're being beaten to death by a gang of white extremists? Guess you shouldn't have decided to live in a country where there are racist people...infant
It's exactly those people who the Hamas leaders should be thinking about when they're provoking airstrikes and infantry attacks. Instead of hiding in exile they should be seeking a solution that isn't going to get their people blown into oblivion. Any suffering exacted on the people of Gaza is the fault of those leaders, but I guess that is what happens when you vote terrorists into power (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/1508974/Terrorists-voted-into-power.html) isn't it?They were voted into power becase
So, did the Gazan people have it coming? In a harsh way, yes.
It's entirely possible to be an intelligent person without the need for compassion or emotion. Maybe immoral would be a better word to use?
Really? David Hume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume) was one of the most respected philosophers of his era. But I guess you didn't know that...
The original quote came from a Greek philosopher, I think, but it was brought back into common thought by Hume during the enlightenment.
In addition to its military wing, the so-called Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigade, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Indeed, the extensive social and political work done by Hamas - and its reputation among Palestinians as averse to corruption - partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote. Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services, and Hamas's efforts in this area—as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption—help to explain the broad popularity it summoned to defeat Fatah in the PA's recent elections.