Gaming World Forums
General Category => General Talk => Topic started by: Dulcinea on January 16, 2009, 06:48:40 pm
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(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.cse.yorku.ca/~andriyp/page_files/york_logo_sm.gif)
(http://www.680news.com/images/2008/November/6/news-yorkstrike.jpg)
Here in Canada, a notable university (luckily not mine) has been closed since early November, due to striking T.A.'s. More information is available here (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=york+university+strike&meta=).
A ton of commuter students, res students, and international students have been locked out of the classes, and will remain locked out unless the T.A.'s settle with the university. The Fall Term is over, and we are now into Winter terms at Canadian Universities, meaning that IF classes resume, students will have to attend class through summer. If they had any plans or bookings they will have to change them.
(Tuition here is roughly $5000-$6000 a year for humanities (higher for Science) plus $7000-11,000 for residence (with/without mealplan)
Do you think this should be allowed to happen? Should there be measures installed to prevent situations like this?
Should the university refund the students' money and cancel the school year?
Are there other solutions for students?
Do you think that it's fair for the T.A.'s to strike and close down the university?
Is it fair for the university to push classes into summer to avoid refunding students' money?
Should there be measures taken to compensate international students and students who have moved far away from home in order to attend university (and are now paying rent/or res/food/costs of living etc)
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/05/205958.aspx
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/30/york-university-strike-update-no-deal-reached.aspx
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/08/2008-york-university-strike-is-cupes-waterloo/
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/06/york-university-strike-is-a-power-struggle-and-not-about-wages/
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/552005
Here's more from the Toronto Star (Centre Left) since you asked. They are against the strike.
Is York U. strike devaluing degrees? http://www.thestar.com/article/560741
Anguish at York University http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/564272
York U Strike Vote Set for Next Week http://www.thestar.com/article/570057
York U. Students Voice Anger Online http://www.thestar.com/article/533878
These are the first results when searching the Toronto Star for York U Strike. Here's a list of more. It's a google page but it's searched only the Toronto Star Website http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.thestar.com+toronto+star+york+u+strike
Here's the first results from a far left paper, the Toronto Sun. It's also against the strike.
Toronto U Strike Splits Students
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2008/11/18/7446496-sun.html#/news/2008/11/17/pf-7444146.html (Video)
One Way or Another, End York U Strike
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/editorial/2009/01/20/8079941-sun.html
McGuinty won't recall legislature over York U. strike yet
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/01/19/8074656.html
End York U Strike Now
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/innocent_madawo/2008/12/11/7703801-sun.html
York U Students Rally Against Strike
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2008/11/17/7440036.html
Again, here are more articles, google used to search through the sun's website. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.torontosun.com+toronto+sun+york+u+strike
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No it's not fair but life's not fair greenhorn
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This is REALLY BAD. This strike is due to their wages, but this kind of strike can really fuck up the lives of those students. Some students can't just chill out and wait for you to resume classes while they're still living there (especially like you said international students). I mean, I'm all for workers trying to improve their situations but this is a huge cost.
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No it's not fair but life's not fair greenhorn
I don't go to York, I just thought I'd post about the issue since there's a lot of people affected by it, and there will be more people in the future affected by similar incidences.
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TAs and RAs are the cheap monkeys that do most of the universitys work so yeah its entirely fair. besides i never go to recitation. recitation is for pussies
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yeah a lot of my friends go to york and are rightfully PISSED!
people who live on campus are kicked out?? i didn't realized this (the all live off campus), i thought it was just classes...
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Workers have a right to strike and I fully support them on that. There was a strike at my university but it didn't last that long. It's not fair to refuse refunding and forcing students to attend during the summer. If they want to keep the students' money, they should have tried harder to reach an agreement with those on strike. It's not like people go on strike for fun.
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Do what Israel does; missile strikes on universities.
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yeah i have a ton of friends who go to york too. most just lounge around now and do nothing all day other than like hang out or go to malls or whatever. most didn't get jobs because they thought the strike would be over quickly and didn't want to go to a job for a few weeks and then just suddenly leave.
do you know if the tuition money they paid for the fall term is lost?? if the university term starts again (it's almost already midterms, i have a feeling they're going to be screwed out of the whole year), would they have to pay again for the term they didn't fully complete?
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yeah i have a ton of friends who go to york too. most just lounge around now and do nothing all day other than like hang out or go to malls or whatever. most didn't get jobs because they thought the strike would be over quickly and didn't want to go to a job for a few weeks and then just suddenly leave.
do you know if the tuition money they paid for the fall term is lost?? if the university term starts again (it's almost already midterms, i have a feeling they're going to be screwed out of the whole year), would they have to pay again for the term they didn't fully complete?
You don't have to pay tuition again, but if you don't want your tuition to be lost you HAVE to go in the summer. I'm pretty sure this is how it is at least.
Hope no one had an internship or something planned for the summer!
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Do what Israel does; missile strikes on universities.
theres no terrorists in canadian universities -_-
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happens all the time in the most important public uni over here. Everyone is used to it. They just chill and pass on the weed.
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if you could use a fork you could go to york LoL
guess they should have picked a better university!!!
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my university did it for over a month after the 2nd week of school
it really sucked, then they took away a bunch of days we would have gotten to "study" and compacted our finals
it really really sucks
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why would they strike in the middle of a recession?? won't it be harder for them to get what they want (what do they want anyways? higher pay, yeaH?) not to mention there are so many people out of jobs right nwo that should just replace them!!
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i was also under the impression most TAs were undergrad students or something? almost all of the TAs here teach lab courses or whatever and they're just students trying to get their phd's or to graduate.
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that's what i thought too, not to mention they got paid ridiculously well. a friend of mine from york said that most ta's just do that for a living... i think that's the problem right there....
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800 or so TAs compared to 50,000 students... I honestly felt that they had good reason at first but I quickly changed my mine. Yes, obviously the TAs would rather not strike since they're students themselves. However, they did, and what have they accomplished?
They refused what the school offered them and even refused an arbitrator to settle the deal. I find this ridiculous because a decision made by an arbitrator would be a final decision and it's really a toss up in who ever they would favour. Typically though, an arbitrator would be able to look at both sides and create a reasonable deal. The fact the TAs refused an arbitration deal while the school was in favour of this is what made me loose all sympathy for the TAs.
Btw this also affected those contracted profressors who really had no job security. Some Profs at that school don't even have a permanent position even though they have worked there for years. I'm in favour of creating job security for these teachers but I careless about the TAs. The ironic part of this all is that York TAs get paid the MOST out of all the universities in Ontario. Haha, now think about that... Shouldn't another school be complaining about this, like maybe University of Toronto?
I heard that a lot of the other universities staff are in favour of this because it would pave the way for better wages/job security for each respective school. Heh, I guess no one really cares about the students themselves.
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I have a couple buddies that still goto York... Sucks for them because they end up not getting their education and finishing off their classes, and hence can't graduate. They paid thousands upon thousands of dollars for this shit, and they don't get anything... I thought this ended a few weeks ago though? Because one of my buddies ended up going to class... Looks like its back on?
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Give em' the boot and offer the students to take their place with credit, and lowering their debt.
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to the faggots comdemming this. half of the classes you take, all the graded tests you get, the labs, the research that keeps your university afloat - guess who does that shit? some of these folks have families and they work ridicolous hours for a miserable wage below the janitor level so suck three hundred dicks.
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The TA's refused an arbitrator, the school was in favor of it. Of course i'm gonna bash em'.
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Get another job then! I'm serious, that's the way the world works. Their numbers and their problems are irrelevant compared to what they are doing to their peers. If they really wanted to end this then they should have opted for the arbitrator. I read up on this pretty well and honestly it was the only solution. I'm sure 100% the school would not yield because they know the TAs can not continue this sharade forever. Plus, they are setting an example that this tactic will not work and is only hurtful to the students, INCLUDING THEMSELVES!
The school president does not want to get involved, there are parents who are rallying up saying they won't let their child go there anymore, even amongst all this I'm 100% the school would not yield. There really had to be a third party settlement here.
I'm for the TAs Marmot, really, it's just I care more about the students like myself and many family & friends.
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This is like the case of bully vs little guy again, hehe. TAs work really hard and they DO keep the school up and running at a minimal cost. With times like these though I can't see it ending pretty. The TAs are most likely going to settle for their last offer and might just be wasting their time. If they think they can accomplish something by continuing to strike then by all means they should go right ahead! I just don't want to hear any sob stories about how unfairly they are being treated because they are causing just as much hardship. This whole thing is just complicated I guess.
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Do what Israel does; missile strikes on universities.
I thought you were a troll...then I saw whole it was. So...elite trolling? :p
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I'm for the right to strike. So I take the good with the bad. These people may be asses (I have no idea), but for others striking may be necessary. Restrictions should be made only to prevent the loss of life (hospital workers, etc), but certainly not due to loss of revenue for the employer or for rending the employer unable to provide a service for its customers (this would happen in every strike, so it's not really relevant). Of course, it's the employers right to persevere as well and the workers do not benefit from them going out of business or being unprofitable.
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of course it's fair. they do the work don't they?
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I'm for the right to strike. So I take the good with the bad. These people may be asses (I have no idea), but for others striking may be necessary. Restrictions should be made only to prevent the loss of life (hospital workers, etc), but certainly not due to loss of revenue for the employer or for rending the employer unable to provide a service for its customers (this would happen in every strike, so it's not really relevant). Of course, it's the employers right to persevere as well and the workers do not benefit from them going out of business or being unprofitable.
Man I guess that makes sense in a technical way but a service for its customers hardly covers possibly ruining someone's education, which would ruin their future life. Some people are on tight budgets and can only afford to live in an area for the amount of time they will be at college. Some people are international students that may have only been going to the school for a semester and now have wasted that semester and will graduate from their own university late. Or they could only be able to afford being in the country for a certain amount of time and now they're expected to afford staying there for the summer. There are countless possibilities but this is a lot different than your typical strike, this affects a LOT of people's entire futures, and these people are basically refusing to negotiate at the expense of these students. In a technical sense it's fair, but it's really really shitty to do to these students just because they refuse to let someone come in to HELP the situation.
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at least the canadian t.a. is allowed to strike. In the U.S., the T.A. is not allowed to strike. In fact it is illegal to strike if you are in the association.
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oh no!
someone will be...
INCONVENIENCED!
they have every right to strike.
a service for its customers hardly covers possibly ruining someone's education, which would ruin their future life.
approx. 0% of people will have a ruined academic life, let alone FUTURE IN GENERAL, because of this strike. most students will take classes in the summer. those who can't or refuse to for whatever reason will be able to catch up in a later summer. let's get into that later.
Some people are on tight budgets and can only afford to live in an area for the amount of time they will be at college.
go home when the university is closed. whoaaaaa. they knew this strike was coming. you would know this if dulcinea had linked, you know, an article instead of GOOGLE.
Some people are international students that may have only been going to the school for a semester and now have wasted that semester and will graduate from their own university late.
this is not a big deal. first off after your first job NO ONE will care about if you graduated a semester late. secondly, if there was ever a justification? this is it. MY COLLEGE CLOSED DOWN BECAUSE OF STRIKES. interviews are for this very reason!
Or they could only be able to afford being in the country for a certain amount of time and now they're expected to afford staying there for the summer.
same thing again, INTERVIEWS ARE TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY THIS. so what did you do this semester you weren't in school? school was closed!
basically "p...poor students" is kind of bullshit as those same students would not have a class to go to without TAs, grad students, and contract professors teaching them and supplementing them. being all "sigh their education stupid strikers" is ignoring the fact that these people are integral to their education!
do you think strikes work when the customer base can IGNORE THE STRIKERS? do you understand what striking is even about? of course theyk new students would be affected, if they weren't then there'd be no fucking point to striking. this is to show the university their value; without these guys, they have to shut down.
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this is pranab. he should be in class learning fluid mechanics. hes not. hes injecting horse into the veins near his testicle instead.
because of a strike pranab has no future...
give pranab back his future...
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the striking workers were correct in refusing an arbitrator. They've made their demands clear, the only purpose arbitration could serve would be to undermine them.
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Magical N, I linked google so people could see a range of sources and articles regarding the situation since there are too many and any particular one I linked could be biased.
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the striking workers were correct in refusing an arbitrator. They've made their demands clear, the only purpose arbitration could serve would be to undermine them.
That's not entirely true, the arbitrator can review the TAs proposition and still validate it. You're right though, the act of consulting an arbitrator could very much have them regretting that they have done so in the first place. But to completely deny it is not the best option in my opinion. The TAs can plea their case on better grounding with a third party. As it stands, they are opting to deal with the party directly, and forcibly (by legally striking), and trying to make a difference on their own.
I'm not arguing that the strike is wrong, they have every right to strike since it's legal. However, the school took steps to solve the problem and cooperated with other resolution ideas. In the school's perspective, they are arguing that the TAs demands are unattainable at this particular moment in time (especially with the economy bloopers). York spends a shit load of money on construction and building modern facilities and I have personally seen where a lot of their money goes. They made them an offer in which they can "afford" and the TAs said that wasn't enough. Infact, during a few negotiations, the representative of the TAs just stormed out of the building. It's really annoying that meetings are either cancelled or abruptly ended before anything is even discussed. I hope the very best for the TAs but they are increasingly difficult and are not budging from their initial requests. They are not wrong for doing this as you guys said but I don't think they see that the school has no intention of giving them what they want.
Steel your 100% right in the fact that the TAs can strike. But I think you're severely down playing the affects this has on the students.
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i think i dont care about the effects it has on students as a strike that HAD NO EFFECT ON STUDENTS would not be a strike at all.
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also as dulcinea decided a scatter shot of op-ed articles was a better representation than finding a single factual one, I can't be sure of this, but if this was legal arbitration it is NOT mediation. arbitration means you must agree with whatever the "judge" rules. this is the premise behind Judge Judy and shows like that. you can get it overturned but it's very difficult.
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make the TA position voluntary
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That's a pretty bad argument Negro. Obviously the strike HAS to effect the students to be considered a strike. I was refering to the jumbled up "Do this do that" solutions you came up with, it's not that simple for a lot of people. As for the arbitration, so what? If the arbitration is FOR the TAs then the school has to comply. It's a gamble but it's better then what they are doing now and it will swiftly end the situation.
As I've said, York TAs get the most money out of any school in Ontario. That means that York is setting the standard cap. They can't suddenly increase their wages because the other schools will ask for the very same. So each party is making a statement, which essentially means no one is going to budge.
I say bite the bullet and move on man, I've would have totally taken this offer. I would assume a middle ground decision would be made anyways.
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It's a gamble but it's better then what they are doing now and it will swiftly end the situation.
you don't really get it at all man...
have you ever been in a union or had to work low paying jobs support yourself in your life?
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Unions arn't always in the right. Somethings gotta give in this, and the school doesn't seem to want to give in something else to pay the TA's.
Especially since no school, no matter the size is allowed to close down, and all schools are being slowly taken over by the provinces. For instance there was an offer by the government to school boards, they get a piece of this pot thing and if they take it they have to keep their budget set to (?) years ago, and they can't increase it, if they didn't comply then they wouldn't get anything.
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Unions arn't always in the right. Somethings gotta give in this, and the school doesn't seem to want to give in something else to pay the TA's.
Especially since no school, no matter the size is allowed to close down, and all schools are being slowly taken over by the provinces. For instance there was an offer by the government to school boards, they get a piece of this pot thing and if they take it they have to keep their budget set to (?) years ago, and they can't increase it, if they didn't comply then they wouldn't get anything.
I'm always gonna side with the workers dogg. these people are the ones doing the work and obviously they feel that they're not properly compensated soo..... :welp:
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First of all, arbitration does not necessary mean that the union must implement the arbitrator's decision. Only under binding arbitration would both the union and the univeristy have to agree. With respect to the issue of actually choosing an arbitrator, the union can pick an arbitrator of their choice, the univeristy pick their own arbitrator, then the two respective arbitrators can pick a third abritrator. All three arbitrators can then review the arguments of both sides and vote on a decision. This would be a way were independent third party professionals can objectively access the situations and come to a reasonable solution that addresses the concerns of both sides.
The fact that the TAs rejected this notion clearly indicates their disregard for the welfare of the paying customers(students) who fork over a substantial amount of money, without which, the TAs wouldn't have employment in the first place. This bone-headed move to reject arbitration outright, clearly indicates that the TAs have unreasonable demands. The effect of a strike on students matters! To say otherwise, is a utterly ridiculous, calous and shows complete lack of empathy.
As you know, financial markets have been taking a beating. The university's endowment fund, a fund that it uses to cope with some of its expenditures has dropped in value significantly. Couple this, with the fact that both federal and provincial governments have drastically cut back on funding of universities, clearly indicates that the university is not in a position to fully meet the TAs financial demands. Times are hard homie, many people have no job, others struggle on minimum wage. The TAs should count their blessings and tighten their belts like others. If they really think that their demands would be met, then my friend, the live on another planet!
If the demands of the TAs are reasonable, and if they are deserving of such demands, I'm all for it. But I simply cannot understand why they would reject an independent third party assessment of the issues at stake! Eventually, the Minister of Labour will force manditory arbitration. In that case, all the TAs would have done is negatively impact students.
Now is the time that Ontario highschool students are making their choices for post secondary education. Now, I ask you, what rational parent and student would attend a school where there is a strong precedence for strikes. The TAs are demanding that there should be a contract for 2 years only! So there would be the possibility of another strike in 2 years time, so again, why would any parent send their kid to York. Less enrollement means less money for the university, couple this with the lack of proper governement funding and a hurting endowment fund as I mentioned already, simply means that there will be even less money for TAs in the future.
The TAs are making the demand for a 2 year contract because they want to strike with other Ontario university TAs at the same time in order to collectively push for more demands. This would then mean that there is the serious possibly of TA strikes across the whole province. If that happens, there will be public outcry and the Ontario government could quite plausibly mandate a no strike legislation. So my Steel what would the TA have accomplish for themselves if out of their irrational behaviour they shoot themselves in the foot!
DietCoke:
I've worked minimum wage jobs to jobs where I earned up to $20+. I know how it feels to be broke, I'm BROKE RIGHT NOW. I'm just looking at the situation as a whole.
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hey ghost i'm pretty sure that what you consider broke is a lot different than what dietcoke considers broke.
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My bad I did not phrase that properly. What I meant is I worked minimum paid jobs and jobs where I got paid 20+. You got to do what you got to do!
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My bad I did not phrase that properly. What I meant is I worked minimum paid jobs and jobs where I got paid 20+. You got to do what you got to do!
are you supporting yourself? like have to pay the bills? When I hear college kids say they're 'broke' while mommy and daddy are footing the bills for housing and education I roll my eyes cuz lol.
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idk why you would roll your eyes. broke means entirely different things depending on the context. if your parents pay for your food/housing/tuition but nothing else and you have no money to do anything beyond that i would consider it being broke. as in, yes i am broke, all i can do is sit around and go to class; i have no money to spare! they could get a job buuuuut i think when most people say broke they mean with the exception of food/shelter money
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i am broke. i pay for my bills because i get money from social security. i typically pay for meals with change
do.. i qualify?
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If the demands of the TAs are reasonable, and if they are deserving of such demands, I'm all for it.
This is a subjective matter though, what may be 'reasonable' to the TAs may be 'unreasonable' to the school or a third party. If the TAs think their demands are reasonable, understand that the under current economic conditions an arbitration may not be favorable for them, and feel that they're better off striking until they get what they want, then
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i am broke. i pay for my bills because i get money from social security. i typically pay for meals with change
do.. i qualify?
do you really pay for meals with change?
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idk why you would roll your eyes.
I think we've all heard enough stories about my experiences putting myself through school.
have you ever had to live on a family friend's boat and cook/take showers at friends' houses to stay in school???
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First of all, arbitration does not necessary mean that the union must implement the arbitrator's decision. Only under binding arbitration would both the union and the univeristy have to agree. With respect to the issue of actually choosing an arbitrator, the union can pick an arbitrator of their choice, the univeristy pick their own arbitrator, then the two respective arbitrators can pick a third abritrator. All three arbitrators can then review the arguments of both sides and vote on a decision. This would be a way were independent third party professionals can objectively access the situations and come to a reasonable solution that addresses the concerns of both sides.
The fact that the TAs rejected this notion clearly indicates their disregard for the welfare of the paying customers(students) who fork over a substantial amount of money, without which, the TAs wouldn't have employment in the first place.
yeah uh KEY TO THAT WHOLE THING: dulcinea has not provided much in thew ay of facts so it could be BINDING ARBITRATION and we do not know but you are apparently dismissing this and thinking HEH THEY DONT EVEN WANT TO COME TO THE TABLE when:
After two days of negotiations, a deal between York University and striking workers has not been reached, the National Post has learned.
so negotiation is occurring without these arbiters, it's entirely possibly it was some form of BINDING ARBITRATION and no "gambling" is not acceptable.
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if i eat out (usually at my college cafeteria or like mcdonalds) lately it's been payed for with like 30 quarters
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Unfortunently people are less rational during recessions.
Also, my parents only paid for my education, beyond that I had to fend for myself.
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I think we've all heard enough stories about my experiences putting myself through school.
have you ever had to live on a family friend's boat and cook/take showers at friends' houses to stay in school???
yeah i know you had it rough for a while or whatever, i am just saying i do not always roll my eyes at people who have it better than me but take their shit for granted sometimes. everyone takes their shit for granted! i have not had to do a lot of what you have had to but i am still going to say i am broke when i don't have any money that's not EARMARKED for shit. there are varying degrees but idk it's just a term for having no money to spend. it would be dif if they said "life......life couldnt get any worse than this *relies on parents*"
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if i eat out (usually at my college cafeteria or like mcdonalds) lately it's been payed for with like 30 quarters
where would you even get 30 quarters. ryan get a job!!!
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or a bank which will change quarters into money it sa bit like CASH4GOLD.COM
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music..is my job
no the recession has hit lynchburg particularly hard. i've been applying to places consistently but all of my friends have been layed off and even places like mcdonalds are laying off
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I ONLY PAY FOR STUFF IN PURE GOLD. PURE. GOLD. RECESSION PROOF, BABY
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ryan do you wander the streets asking "ANY BODY GOD A DOLLAH MAYBE A DOLLAH YOU MAMMY GABE YOU"
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no but i've considered busking as of late. that's like the bottom rung of music though i'd rather play a rockin sweet home alabama in marilyns dive bar across from the airport (real place!)
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yeah i know you had it rough for a while or whatever, i am just saying i do not always roll my eyes at people who have it better than me but take their shit for granted sometimes. everyone takes their shit for granted! i have not had to do a lot of what you have had to but i am still going to say i am broke when i don't have any money that's not EARMARKED for shit. there are varying degrees but idk it's just a term for having no money to spend. it would be dif if they said "life......life couldnt get any worse than this *relies on parents*"
man i just don't buy this. that's like if bill gates left his debit card at home and only had 2 bucks in his wallet and was like "aw shit, i can't get a steak for lunch cuz I'm really broke"
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wat about colloquial broke when your friends are like LETS DO SOMETING and you're all CANT I SPENT MY LAST PAYCHECK ON RENT/FOOD/BEER TO FORGET I LIVE IN A SHITHOLE so you are broke for that month.
do you really not believe this terminology exists! you don't believe INDIE exists as a musical term either...joe...you're...a linguofascist.
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haha fair enough! idk i don't give a shit enough to press the point; the people you hear saying probably are spoiled fuckos. i'm just sayin when i say it it usually just means i dont have any disposable income atm
also i know how it can be getting a job! actually i've gotten ones relatively quickly the last few times but i still know how it can be and it blows. no one ever even calls you back! my bro said he had to apply at 80+ places in london before even one called him back so i guess things....things is bad all over...
i'm always kind of astounded when gz tells me how easy jobs are to get where he is. apparently he has never even had to interview for one ffff. also busking sounds like it might be kinda cool but not in the winter lol.
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wat about colloquial broke when your friends are like LETS DO SOMETING and you're all CANT I SPENT MY LAST PAYCHECK ON RENT/FOOD/BEER TO FORGET I LIVE IN A SHITHOLE so you are broke for that month.
do you really not believe this terminology exists! you don't believe INDIE exists as a musical term either...joe...you're...a linguofascist.
no, it's just if someone is gettin' a free-ride on the mommy&daddy express to get an expensive education that will likely allow them to have a high paying job in a few years, I think that it's pretty absurd to hear them say "man I can't go make frivolous purchases, i'm broke".
as for "indie"... that doesn't even make sense when used as a musical term. It's not that I think it doesn't exist, I just think it's dumb.
ANYWAY.
these TAs need to put food on the table and keep the lights on, if they feel that they need more income in order to do that and live comfortably then they ought to get it.
solidarity forever baby
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I saved up to pay for the first two years of school myself. My parents don't support me but I crash at their house sometimes since it's close to my school. I also pay for a portion of their bill as well on a monthly bases. I pay for my own school and have worked crappy ass jobs and jobs where you have the sudden urge to quit school for sometime...
As I was saying, I'm almost completely broke right now and I mean that for real. I know how it feels to be broke and I only have enough money to go to school and eat a bit. I cut back at going outside a lot too. But, because I'm such a smooth dude. I get other people to hook me up with deals on pretty much everything I need from clothes, tickets, hotels, etc.
I know how it feels to be broke but I took the initiative to work my fucking ass off to sustain myself. Obviously everyone is not in my position and there are people in better positions then me but that's how the story goes. I know that if I did not get help here and there I would have been far worst. Just don't paint me as one of those TV characters who makes having a car, going to school, and paying for their apartment/dorm seem mandatory.
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haha fair enough! idk i don't give a shit enough to press the point; the people you hear saying probably are spoiled fuckos. i'm just sayin when i say it it usually just means i dont have any disposable income atm
also i know how it can be getting a job! actually i've gotten ones relatively quickly the last few times but i still know how it can be and it blows. no one ever even calls you back! my bro said he had to apply at 80+ places in london before even one called him back so i guess things....things is bad all over...
i'm always kind of astounded when gz tells me how easy jobs are to get where he is. apparently he has never even had to interview for one ffff. also busking sounds like it might be kinda cool but not in the winter lol.
i don't even know where to apply at anymore tbh. i've applied at so many places, many several times. i've even been looking on craigslist for jobs but 99.9% of them are spam :(
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RYAN, I'm trying to switch up jobs now but I don't think that's even possible. I get like NO call backs at all which is hilarious to me because I used to turn down people. Craigslist has shit loads of crap. So many spam posts and so many vague descriptions... I only go there because there MIGHT be something there UGH.
Steel:
I'm disappointed in you. I was really expecting a 2 page post from you as usual :fogetlaugh:. Come on man, lay me with some facts... EDUCATE ME.
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dont you know anyone ryan? like, someone who could give you THE HOOKUP? you could also put an ad out on cl for SESSION MUSICIAN or w/e on the cheap. people could probably use guitarist for hire.....wandering musical ronin...
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heed the call of the great white north and hop onboard a seafood processing boat for a summer in alaska cutting/packing fish with a bunch of immigrants and felons
you'll have cash-money for the whole year
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there's really not much recording going on in lynchburg. the majority of recording is hip hop or country and the country guys are a very ELITE heh community. you're not gonna play on a country record around here unless you've been doing it for the past 20 years or w/e.
i know a few guys who are still working (literally like 10 guys i know who are still around here were layed off from various places) and ive asked them if they could get me hired, but nada.
i was 100% sure i was getting hired at my local music store. i talked to the owner for like an hour and she basically said YEAH WERE GONNA HIRE U and even explained to me the duties of the job, the rules, dress code, etc, but they never called.
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heed the call of the great white north and hop onboard a seafood processing boat for a summer in alaska cutting/packing fish with a bunch of immigrants and felons
you'll have cash-money for the whole year
i was thinking of doing this but i had no idea where to look. i checked a few websites but they seemed gimmicky
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while reading this topic I opened a copy of the new yorker. there's a full page ad demanding a law make it illegal to call any wine not from the Champagne region of France champagne.
I felt so...bourgeosie. pronounce this "boozee".
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i was thinking of doing this but i had no idea where to look. i checked a few websites but they seemed gimmicky
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/careers-699829-Trident_Seafoods_Corp I worked with these guys and got through it in one piece
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the closest interview location is columbus, oh.. panda.. wanna go fishin together?
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yeah you better hope you don't get on one of those rickety piece of shit boats that collapse as soon as a it gets rough. I guess US regulations are higher but our emergency GPS in japan would go off every 30 minutes or so with a downed fishing boat.
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man, aren't those operations really dangerous? my brother almost did it like 12 years ago but our mom FEARED FOR HIS LIFE so he did not. back then there was a lot of talk about how dangerous a gig it was, though!
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anyone wanna go icefishing?
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nah I've actually spoken to a few people who have done it but it can get pretty dangerous because of the listing and using knives.
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UWO dropout gone self-made dot-com.
School is overrated.
I have York friends incredibly butthurt over it.
Story of the day is go to a better school. The standards of York are pretty low.
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aaagh are you serious?
wait seriously i was just really annoyed that you said "butthurt" but then i re-read your post and realized the entire thing is terrible are you kidding?
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UWO dropout gone self-made dot-com.
School is overrated.
I have York friends incredibly butthurt over it.
Story of the day is go to a better school. The standards of York are pretty low.
you're a moron :fogetsmile:
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Their standards really aren't that low. Dunno why everyone makes fun of them, like-
Why do York students put their diplomas on their dashboards?
So they can park in handicapped spaces.
Anyway, I hear they'll be back in school next week, is that true?
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In Canada, strikes usually go way out of control, especially lately. In Ottawa, public transportation has been on strike since the beginning of December. That means no busses, no train (even though we only have one poorly-laid train service).
Because Ottawa is such a sparse city, the lack of public transportation has had huge implications for commuters. People who would normally take the bus to cover 30 miles now have to find rides, find places to stay closer to their goals, or simply give up obligations. I've heard more than a couple of stories about people having to give up jobs or losing them because they aren't able to simply get to them anymore. In the morning and afternoon, increased car traffic has made traveling through the city a nightmare: commuters who would usually spend 30 minutes in their cars are now there for two hours. Its thrown everything in the whole city out of whack.
To top it all off, the public transit system in Ottawa sucks to begin with. Busses do not adequately service suburban areas, are crazy expensive ($3.00 fare), and the reason why the bus drivers had decided to strike was so that the senior employees could pick their own hours. Considering that scheduling is one of the only powers an employer might have over a tight union, its something the city has not been willing to give into, and I think more than %70 of the populace sides with the city.
In my opinion, when workers are relied upon to the extent that the entire local infrastructure hinges on them, they shouldn't be allowed to strike. Its just too disruptive to the community. I might extend that argument to the university, considering that thousands of people are out a lot of money for having to attend and stick around, unsure when the dispute would be settled.
At Carleton University, where I attend, there was a vote recently by the TAs association asking if they should go on strike as well. The administration at Carleton is sneaky, so I have no doubt that they were acting underhandedly regarding the TAs, but still if the TAs were to go on strike, that would seriously cause problems for tens of thousands of people who attend and are affected by the university.
I don't know what else to say except that employers need to find faster methods of resolution, and unions should consider their ethical obligations to the community before they stop working.
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n my opinion, when workers are relied upon to the extent that the entire local infrastructure hinges on them, they shouldn't be allowed to strike. Its just too disruptive to the community.
strikes are only good when they're ineffective. effective strikes are bad.
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If the busses can't run, that affects the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of people. I do think that essential services like public transit shouldn't be allowed to strike, especially in a city like mine where its vital to the infrastructure. The impact it has had on the city has been very disruptive economically and personally for a lot of people, and the trouble they're causing is not nearly worth the matter over which the drivers are striking.
I think unions are stupid anyways, so I'm not all that sympathetic with anyone involved (management or employees) when a strike occurs anywhere.
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the main problem with why everything fucks up when they strike is because services like the TTC in toronto have a monopoly over the public transport system and so when they strike everyone has to listen to their demands and hike up fairs yet again.
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once again: a strike has to be effective to matter. MASSIVE INCONVENIENCE MY PUBLIC TRANSIT IS GONE well carpool then jesus christ. when the screenwriters went on strike a lot of non writers or actors lost their jobs. didn't heroes hire HEMPKNIGHT to rig their lights once? this is probably unrelated I just remembered how funny it was when he did this and then gushed about celeb gossip when Kristen Bell didn't say hi to him.
whatever issues you may have with this strike you have to realize it NEEDS to shut down an "essential part of infrastructure". if it does not it's just a bunch of people with already worthless jobs who quit all at once and no one missed them.
how do you think these people should negotiate for wages? what exactly stops the transit system from saying "fuck along then your pay is 25 dollars a week"? if employees can't strike, what exactly can they do? are any of you going to THINK OF THIS or just complain you had to ride a bike for a month?
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my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/
Also:
"But along with the supervisors, managers and professional staff on the $100,000 list were 41 operators (subway train and bus drivers), 12 coach technicians, three transit special constables and two station collectors."
a station collector sits in a booth and makes sure everyone getting into the station puts their fare in. also, when they went on strike they gave an hour's notice (mostly online) so a ton of people got screwed. I just don't see how all of this is very fair, i guess.
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my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/
Also:
a station collector sits in a booth and makes sure everyone getting into the station puts their fare in. also, when they went on strike they gave an hour's notice (mostly online) so a ton of people got screwed. I just don't see how all of this is very fair, i guess.
Ok seriously...TTC keeps raising fairs, going on strike, asking for more but the majority treat you like they're doing you a favour when they pick you up, with attitude.
Just for an idea of the attitude and arrogance you get from employees- there used to be this guy at Sheppard Station who was a nazi Carder. He carded you for student fare when you were in uniform. Anyway, I was in a rush cause I was late for a lesson, and I had my guitar. I put my fare in the box and instead of TELLING ME HE WAS CARDING ME FOR MY STUDENT FARE (even though I was in a school uniform), he locked the turnstyle and I ended up bruising my rib and getting a small crack in my guitar (this was when he was new so I didn't know he'd do that). My dad called to complain, and the guy gets a freaking letter of commendation, which the next time he sees me, he presses up against the glass of his stupid little box and says "Tell all your little friends who are complaining about me that the company likes what I'm doing."
And the service is terrible. I take a bus that goes on a particularly hilly route, and none of the buses have snow tires so it either short turns at freaking Leslie and I have to walk all the way to VP in a -28 degree snowstorm at 11 at night (yes this happened), or it stalls trying to climb up a hill. We live in freaking Canada. Get snow tires with the millions extra we're paying in hiked fares. And the subway stops almost every morning sometimes for a delay, usually for no reason at all. Not to mention that the subway shuts down before last call.
Even if they strike I don't want to pay higher fares and taxes so that guys like this can get off on hurting kids and abusing their power.
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And the service is terrible. I take a bus that goes on a particularly hilly route, and none of the buses have snow tires so it either short turns at freaking Leslie and I have to walk all the way to VP in a -28 degree snowstorm at 11 at night (yes this happened), or it stalls trying to climb up a hill. We live in freaking Canada. Get snow tires with the millions extra we're paying in hiked fares. And the subway stops almost every morning sometimes for a delay, usually for no reason at all. Not to mention that the subway shuts down before last call.
whoa, you live really really close to me.
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its really not fair because your education is at halt no matter what compensation occurs after (if any). I have a few friends from york and all we do now is smoke up and chill pretty much everyday. But hey there's still work :P
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whoa, you live really really close to me.
Myabe. Both VP and Leslie are huge streets though.
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my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/
Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.
Ok seriously...TTC keeps raising fairs, going on strike, asking for more but the majority treat you like they're doing you a favour when they pick you up, with attitude.
The TTC executives who raise fares and the front-line workers are two totally different groups. :shh:
To top it all off, the public transit system in Ottawa sucks to begin with. Busses do not adequately service suburban areas, are crazy expensive ($3.00 fare), and the reason why the bus drivers had decided to strike was so that the senior employees could pick their own hours. Considering that scheduling is one of the only powers an employer might have over a tight union, its something the city has not been willing to give into, and I think more than %70 of the populace sides with the city.
"The city won't give in to a reasonable demand. IT'S ALL THE UNION'S FAULT."
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Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.
The TTC executives who raise fares and the front-line workers are two totally different groups. :shh:
"The city won't give in to a reasonable demand. IT'S ALL THE UNION'S FAULT."
The frequency with which the TTC goes on strike is ridiculous though. Not long ago they had a wildcat strike, too, which was illegal. They just stopped service and some peopel didn't even know- they ende dup stranded, or waiting hours for buses that weren't coming.
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Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.
yeah because every job available has a union associated with it. ofuck me i'm not really making enough, better go find a union job. not to mention that frivolous striking is pretty much the new frivolous lawsuits and a lot of unions are doing it JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not like these people are ACTUALLY OVERPAID and that has nothing to do with "well why don't you get paid more?"
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yeah because every job available has a union associated with it. ofuck me i'm not really making enough, better go find a union job. not to mention that frivolous striking is pretty much the new frivolous lawsuits and a lot of unions are doing it JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not like these people are ACTUALLY OVERPAID and that has nothing to do with "well why don't you get paid more?"
Yup. That's EXACTLY it. If you're not making enough, talk to your co-workers and at least TRY. Try carefully, of course, as not all workplaces will take too kindly to union organizing. Talk to any of the national unions, or a local union in your area. Look into it. Most unions will at least try to help with inquiries about possible new members. Worst case? They can't help you right now. At the very least you tried.
http://www.iww.org/en/organize
http://www.ufcw.org/organizing/
There is no such thing as a "frivolous" strike. For the working class, there is no such thing as "overpaid". Any dollar a worker can squeeze out of their bosses is a hard earned and fully deserved dollar. Stop being jealous of what others have fought for and work together with your co-workers to improve your own conditions.
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did you know starbucks will fire you if they catch wind you are unionizing, it was a big deal about a month back, the IWW did a pretty big protest.
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gw has such a hilarious conservatism streak. if it's something that doesn't affect them like gay marriage or something they can passively accept like legalizing weed they are all for it but the second it is something that gives you a minor inconvenience (help a guy was mean to me and I passively aggressively tried to get mad at him FUCK EVERYWORKER) you all become raging republicans.
FUCKING UNIONS...
MY! RIGHTS! TO! A! BUS!
see also: Israel topic where everyone who has been to Israel has argued ITS OKAY THEY KILLED CHILDREN or whenever we have a topic about abortion and a bunch of virgins rant about their right to deny women the right to choose.
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i don't ride a bus, and i still uphold the fact that rapty is wrong about "no such thing as overpaid." fuck there isn't. $30 an hour for working class. That's almost $60,000 a year for a job which is really supposed to be a ~22-30~ yr old person's job (at least in the states, public transit drivers are either really old assholes or mid-twenties college students or like band members who are supplementing).
60,000 a year is ridiculous. especially considering the more that wages increase for this shit, the more prices increase. that's how these fucking strikes are frivolous, fuckers squeezing out a couple extra dollars an hour will raise fares considerably (shit adds up), in turn other prices raise to have to keep up, it's bullshit.
EDIT: if you can expect me to go out and find a job that's unionized then you should be able to expect these fuckers to find a better job (bus driving... really?) instead of bitching about it.
it's not really a matter of is this strike effective, it's a matter of is this strike important, and in a lot of cases, they're not. These fuckers are NOT BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY, they need to get off their high horses and realize that.
I agreed with the writer's strike last year though because they were actually being treated unfairly, so yeah it's more a matter of picking your battles and not being assholes.
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sooooo
because whatever industry that gets paid under 60,000 doesn't have a union and thus doesn't strike
fuck anyone that does and got money for it because a bunch of people believe a bus ride is a right.
ps: what the fuck are you people paying in fares that you're complaining so much.
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unions are all run by the mob.
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those people wanting decent wage, fuck em. Shoulda gone to a high class uni like I am.
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fuck if i haven't said it before but i make under 600 dollars a month/live on my own and am putting myself through college, does it not make sense that i would think these fuckers are being selfish? These are not educated jobs, most of the people i know who drive busses and stuff in off time are either still in college or are teachers (if it's a school bus) or have some other part time job (if any other kind of bus), or they're really old asshats. there's no reason they should be getting like SALARY amount of money for the relative ease their job is. i would gladly sign up, take the fucking license exam and do their job for half what they make. How is are they even able to do this without other people willing to take over?
those people wanting decent wage, fuck em. Shoulda gone to a high class uni like I am.
not like a lot of them are high school dropouts and also giant douchebags, but also i'm not going to a high class anything i'm going to a community college, but really all the transit jobs around here are really easy to get into if there's an open position and will often pay for your license exam, what's different in canada?
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yeah dude what you apparently DO NOT GET is that not only are the workers losing money by going on strike but the union itself is losing money too.
They don't hold a meeting and then go, "I think we should strike again this week because I want another $0.25 and those little shit head students are getting on my nerves". its a group effort between alot of people that wouldn't bother doing it unless they really needed to because they are losing money in the process.
but this is from MY union experience I don't know much about the teacher unions but I imagine they aren't that different
EDit: wait is this over BUSES are you actually bitching because some broke ass bus drivers are striking don't tell me that is what this topic is about.
please do not tell me that this topic is full of people bitching because they can't ride a public bus to school. AHAHA wow I thought it was teachers so you actually couldn't go to school. But, its just the drivers? man, why is this topic even open?
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THEY'RE OLD AND DUMB I COULD DRIVE A BUS
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nah it was originally about TAs, but it got on a tangent about some other random busses. like i said i don't ride abus, but still.
i would also point out that TAs should be expected to be working random classes at multiple schools and that they are also JUST COLLEGE STUDENTS. my point is these jobs are supposed to be just odd jobs and shouldn't be expected to be "our job..."
and bus drivers shouldn't get to pick their own schedule fuck them.
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fuck anyone that does and got money for it because a bunch of people believe a bus ride is a right
rosa parks..
heh.. gotcha, racist.
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THEY'RE OLD AND DUMB I COULD DRIVE A BUS
did you completely gloss over the part where i said I PERSONALLY KNOW PEOPLE WHO DRIVE BUSSES WHO ARE NEITHER OLD NOR DUMB and aren't bitching about wages and shit because seriously?
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do you not understand that SOME PEOPLE DO IT FOR A LIVING?
so you know even though that might not be YOUR personal choice or your friends those people still have a right to make a decent living? oh wait no they don't because that might inconvenience you for a few days...
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you can make a decent living at under 60,000 a year. lots of people do it.
EDIT: Also how many times do i have to say that whether or not the buses run has absolutely no effect on my life whatsoever?
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did you know starbucks will fire you if they catch wind you are unionizing, it was a big deal about a month back, the IWW did a pretty big protest.
yup! and wal-mart has shut down at least 1 store, and 1 auto garage in Canada because they unionized.
That's almost $60,000 a year for a job which is really supposed to be a ~22-30~ yr old person's job (at least in the states, public transit drivers are either really old assholes or mid-twenties college students or like band members who are supplementing).
Please tell me where 30+ year olds are supposed to work, then? The factory work that is increasingly being outsourced or done by machines? The office work that requires a university education (that a lot of people can't afford!) or really, really good connections? You seem to have this impression that people can just find high paying jobs growing on trees, or that they otherwise deserve to starve in the streets or something! Again, workers deserve whatever raises they are willing to FIGHT for. The idea that some jobs are undeserving of decent wages because they're don't require education or "aren't hard" is classist bullshit!
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dude I don't know where the hell you're coming from either have you ever driven a buss or a big ass truck? Those fuckers are pretty tough to learn how to drive and driving is alot of responsibility, especially in a city as big as Toronto or any city that requires them as public transit.
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how am i classist? I SUPPORT MYSELF FOR LESS THAN 600 DoLLARS A MONTH. I LIVE IN A HOUSE WITHOUT HEAT AND EAT ONE OR TWO MEALS A DAY. The fact that these people already make more than enough to support themselves and a reasonably sized family is my entire point. my dad is the only one working in his house he has a wife and two kids to support (my stepbrother and half-sister) and he does it on about 60,000 a year while my stepmom flitters away spending on stuff she doesn't need. how is 60,000 not enough?
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you're classist because there's no education requirement and you manage to occasionally drive a car, you assume driving a bus every day regularly and dealing with the shit your average bus driver does is easy.
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how am i classist if they make a lot more money than me and have more food/heat than i do? I bought a car for 800 dollars. it's spraypainted white and occasionally struggles going up hills. i have no other choice than to drive because i live in an area where there's no public transit and is ~30 miles from my job and ~40 miles from my school.
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also shit the average bus driver has to deal with is pretty comparable to shit the average fast food lackey has to deal with but also get paid a lot more.
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i'd like to reiterate:
"But along with the supervisors, managers and professional staff on the $100,000 list were 41 operators (subway train and bus drivers), 12 coach technicians, three transit special constables and two station collectors."
i'm sorry but i don't think there's any justification for operators or station collectors to earn $100,000 a year. HARD EARNED DOLLARS my ass.
btw, we're paying almost $3 for a bus ticket. it used to be like 2 bucks a couple of years ago and they hike it up like 10-15 cents every time and it adds up. do you really believe bus drivers should be paid upwards of $29.33/hr??
ps:
see also: Israel topic where everyone who has been to Israel has argued ITS OKAY THEY KILLED CHILDREN or whenever we have a topic about abortion and a bunch of virgins rant about their right to deny women the right to choose.
why are you even bringing this up here? it has nothing to do with anything. DON'T LIKE THE WAGE THOSE BUS DRIVERS ARE GETTING? YOU'RE AGAINST ABORTION!!!
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classism doesn't mean you have to shit on the poor, it means you can say they deserve to be poor and aren't.
in addition your average bus driver can kill somebody by following the law even. the other day it was in the news that a car swerved in front of a bus, it stopped, and the guy in the back rearended and died. sorry I think the threat of possible lawsuits on your person when some old guy keels over with a heart attack and no one notices is a little bit worse than "someone pooped on the floor".
especially when a lot of people shit on buses all the time.
why are you even bringing this up here?
gw gets hilariously conservative at the most random shit unless its WEED and even that is a conservative opinion LESS GOVMENT you aren't so stupid you missed that and are trying to do a HEH DID YOU CONSIDER thing and ignoring I know these forums to an embarassing degree and it's funny as shit how if it hadn't been for me and a few other people who probably heard from the same sources I did you would all be drinking the Ron Paul koolaid.
i'm sorry but i don't think there's any justification for operators or station collectors to earn $100,000 a year
here is the justification: they do something. most CEOs do not and take home millions and bilk investors and have perks like you wouldn't believe.
do you really believe bus drivers should be paid upwards of $29.33/hr??
yep. I believe everyone who does a job that I wouldn't do should get to live comfortably.
ps you can keep quoting something but maybe linking the article might help as you keep posting it and not saying where it's from.
btw, we're paying almost $3 for a bus ticket.
FUCK WE'RE ALL DEAD! ALMOST 3 DOLLARS!
grey poupon mustard is four dollars. you are complaining about less than a jar of mustard.
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hardworking folks can't make good money, only CEOs and investors can! that's how things work pidge. strikes are cool and trendy unless they effect me, then they are outrageous!!
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i don't rememebr what article it was from, I posted that on my facebook back in april when the actual strike was going on, i got it from some large thread about the ttc strike on SA where most people were arguing against it, w/e.
FUCK WE'RE ALL DEAD! ALMOST 3 DOLLARS!
grey poupon mustard is four dollars. you are complaining about less than a jar of mustard.
Right, now say I have to go somewhere then back home then downtown then home again. that's 4 bus tickets - $12 already. it gets pretty damn expensive daily especially when you have to use it so frequently.
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anyone driving anywhere is in danger of killing somebody. i've had people run out in front of my car, and anyone driving a bigger pick-up truck could kill someone in a smaller car who jumped out in front of them. it's not as lethal as A BUS but there's also relatively few instances where even a bus accident occurs.
most people don't use two jars of mustard a day and also i don't know for sure if you said it before, but i'm pretty sure harry did that fast food managers are pretty pathetic when often do a lot more than a station operator and don't make near that much.
average fast food lackey's duties:
-take orders
-pack orders
-cook food
-make prep
-do all of the above in a timely manner
-have customers yell at you/spit in your face/assault you with your own food
Average Pay: minimum wage to 7.50/hr
average shift supervisor's duties:
-all lackey duties
-count inventory
-count safe
-assign registers
-count down money in all registers
-deal with complaints
-take calls
average pay: between $10-20/hr
Assistant manager's duties:
-all shift duties
-assign schedules
-work week is at least 50 hours or else dips into vacation hours, no overtime awarded
-minor clerical stuff
Average Pay: $20,000-35,000/yr
RGM:
-all assistant duties
-more clerical stuff
-job security rests on hands of employees
Average Pay: $35,000-50,000/yr
i could go on but these fuckers do a lot and get payed less idon't see why you're trying to justify this.
EDIT:
RYAN: 60,000 A YEAR IS GOOD MONEY IT'S NOT EXTRAVAGANT SPENDING GOOD BUT IT'S GOOD MONEY. MY DAD IS A REGIONAL MANAGER AT A FASTFOOD RESTAURANT AND MAKES ABOUT THAT AND HE OFTEN WORKS 13 HOUR SHIFTS HE WORKS HIS ASS OFF AND MAKES THAT MONEY I DON'T SEE WHAT YOUR POINT IS
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they should unionize and get paid more my point is jealousy over the fact they unionized and some other industry didn't is just dumb.
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just an fyi you can't unionize at places like fast food chains or walmart or w/e. they made it explicitly clear that you would be fired if you did. here in virginia at least they don't need a reason to fire people so unions are effectively nulled anyway.
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my point is that they're pushing for more than is necessary for comfortable living conditions and that's greedy. it's like if you help someone out moving one day and they offer to buy you lunch for the help and you say they should take you out for steak or else you'll never help them again. a lunch would be nice, but a steak would be a whole lot more and you're being a greedy little bitch.
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just an fyi you can't unionize at places like fast food chains or walmart or w/e. they made it explicitly clear that you would be fired if you did. here in virginia at least they don't need a reason to fire people so unions are effectively nulled anyway.
The best resistance to things like that is a strong labour movement, which outside of a few industries, is severely lacking in North America.
my point is that they're pushing for more than is necessary for comfortable living conditions and that's greedy.
"Greedy" is wanting to drag them down to your level, instead of being dragged up to theirs! Hope that helps!
Right, now say I have to go somewhere then back home then downtown then home again. that's 4 bus tickets - $12 already. it gets pretty damn expensive daily especially when you have to use it so frequently.
Then buy a pass. A $3 fare isn't anywhere close to ridiculous.
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The best resistance to things like that is a strong labour movement, which outside of a few industries, is severely lacking in North America.
yeah, no kidding. the south especially is very anti-labor, we have shitty right to work laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law) and the area is largely conservative. not to mention places like wendys and walmart show these anti-union half hour videos when you get hired there that demonize unions.
it's surprising how even the people the unions would largely benefit are still so anti union.
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"Greedy" is wanting to drag them down to your level, instead of being dragged up to theirs! Hope that helps!
no fuck i don'tk now what you're talking about! I don't want to drag anyone down! I support unions in general, but taking more than you need is greedy. i think athletes/whatever and ceos are grossly overpaid, and i stand by my assumption that 60,000 is more than enough for the average family to live comfortably off of. you don't need more than that, so by taking more you're being greedy.
like i said earlier, i agreed with the writer's strike's motives back when it happened, and a lot of strikes/union activity is good, but the bus drivers who are already making more than enough money are not striking responsibly, because they don't FUCKING NEED IT.
EDIT: also what the fuck the reason i'm even working so hard is because i'm trying to make myself into something TRYING TO DRAG MYSELF UP TO THEIR LEVEL but when i get there i'll be satisfies instead of bitching about it.
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okay so you think ceos and athletes are grossly overpaid but I haven't seen you ever make a DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOUSIE VIA LA VIE BOHEME (I made a few in this topic!) style posts so apparently you aren't that concerned with them and saying FUCK....BUS DRIVERS is more important than pointing out the massive rich poor gap that necessitates the creation of unions.
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that's cause this topic was about union shit and the ceo stuff was just rant points idk and i tend to stay out of SPORTS TOPICS because i don't find any entertainment in them, but irl whenever i hear something about X ATHLETE'S SALARY I have always said something about it. I hate people who do nothing and get paid gross amounts of money for it, but i also don't support asking for more than you need.
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dude I would never say that most any athlete "does nothing" but yeah they're generally grossly overpaid but actors can be really really overpaid.
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yeah i know i put athletes/actors in the same category, they do something, i meant CEOs do pretty much nothing.
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Haha, here in Canada a lot of people just quit and move on when they have problem at work. In the U.S, I know a hell of a lot of people that file lawsuits left and right against their employers and still stay at their job, GOOD LUCK MOVING UP!
Well, that's just one thing I noticed. How does that even work? I wonder how the small talk by the water cooler is with the managers.
Employee: Hey, what are you guys laughing about?
Managers: *Whisper* I'll telll you guys about later...
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no fuck i don'tk now what you're talking about! I don't want to drag anyone down! I support unions in general, but taking more than you need is greedy. i think athletes/whatever and ceos are grossly overpaid, and i stand by my assumption that 60,000 is more than enough for the average family to live comfortably off of. you don't need more than that, so by taking more you're being greedy.
it may sound reasonable, but who are you to tell workers what they ought to earn?
wouldn't a decision like that best be left to the people doing the work themselves? You can stand by any arbitrary salary limit you want, but if workers know that they are producing a value higher than what they are being paid for(i.e. there is surplus value being extracted from their labor power) then they have every right to demand just compensation for the full value of what they're producing. Profits be damned, this is what class struggle is all about.
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I once heard a hypothesis from a libertarian political scientist that a union is a result of a lack of personal trust and individual compassion from both sides in the agreement between an employer and their employees. As such they are a social disease like crime, being a manifestation of the moral shortcomings of the people involved.
I'm not saying I hold to that view or anything, but I thought I'd just post it here to ... provoke.
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I once heard a hypothesis from a libertarian political scientist
this more or less means idiot btw, the cato institution is a big disgusting joke in the political science community. they aren't hardcore socialists either but your average poli sci person knows about, oh, GLOBALIZATION, which most libertarians are afraid of. soooo don't pay attention really.
here is how to shut this hypothesis down:
a union is a result of a lack of personal trust and individual compassion from both sides in the agreement between an employer and their employees.
enron.
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actually here is why you cannot trust corporations: they are legally not allowed to help you.
In 1916 the Ford Motor Company had a surplus. instead of wanting to give it to the minority shareholders, Ford wanted to redistribute it through the company. as in increased salaries and more factories and cheaper cars. the minority shareholders took him to court. what Ford did not realize is that in 1886 the Supreme Court defined corporations as having all the rights but none of the reponsibilities of PEOPLE. so guess what the SC said to Ford? he was legally obligated, not even morally, LEGALLY, to make the rich richer. here's the wikipedia:
The Court held that a business corporation is organized primarily for the profit of the stockholders, as opposed to the community or its employees. The discretion of the directors is to be exercised in the choice of means to attain that end, and does not extend to the reduction of profits or the nondistribution of profits among stockholders in order to benefit the public, making the profits of the stockholders incidental thereto
that means every single corporation is legally obligated PRIMARILY to get money for the people in charge. they are not supposed to give it to the employees.
no one should ever trust a corporate entity. if you do you're a damn fool.
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Not everyone in the union wanted to strike, magical n, it was about 500 out of 1500. And they are from the highest paid TAs in our entire province. They're striking against a non-profit university, and locking hundreds of thousands out. It's not a minor inconvenience, its people who can't afford it (students and working shmos) losing minimum $5000 education that they've paid for out of THEIR hard work and jobs with minimum wage hourly rates. Plus students who don't have much of a chance to get the education again, because they're here as international students whose visas will expire, or (given the circumstances in some countries) will be going home to be forcefully enlisted instead of bettering themselves. That's not an INCONVENIENCE. And we're not raging republicans- first of all because we're Canadian, and we don't have republicans, and secondly because even though they're workers and I'm all for workers rights, there are times when people are just WRONG. It's not the case in every strike situation, but this strike situation is terrible.
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hey you know fuuuck you anyways because I don't give a shit I'm not clicking through twenty google links because you're either so abysmally lazy you're not going to provide a single fact based article about the event so you can take that HEH DID YOU KNOW attitude and shove it up your ass! you've got flowerpower doing the same grassfucker routine. here three can play at that game:
"I'm going to fuck every single employee," the dean of the university said in a statement last week. "I will rape their women, and then sodomize the men. Then I'm going to fuck a baby.
Union head Dudley DoRight expressed horror. "We just want to stop letting him use our money to fuck babies! Why do you want to fuck babies? They aren't even lubricated!"
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He's magically delicious.
http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=57278
Edit:
Steel why are you debating about an issue you know nothing about, looool.
Edit2:
Dulcinea we need some linkz.
Edit3:
Bye
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what, fuck her dude. no one outside of this area in Canada will be carrying articles about this (and is it a coincidence of the top three the first google result is old and the other two are editorials against the strike?) but instead of giving us a link that would be updated EVER she tells us to constantly google it like anyone on this forum knows which news sources are trustworthy in Canadian affairs, and then if anyone post something heh pal here's a fact you forgot but that I'm hoarding just to get a worthless jab in. oh no! only a third! guess the other two thirds were passionately against it which is why when it came to a vote they decided against it oh waaaait nope.
no one else on this forum gets away with HEH THIS IS SOMETHING and then not linking a news article unless it's something they just heard on TV.
lets not forget the dumbshit WERE NOT REPUBLICAN HEH DIDNT U KNOW? THERES NO CONSERVATIVE FUCKWITS IN CANADA!
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Steel why are you debating about an issue you know nothing about, looool.
1. I read the material provided in topic. sorry dulcinea has MAGICAL BULLSHIT SOURCES about only a third of a union secretly controlling the rest.
2. the fact that I am not so abysmally stupid as everyone arguing STRIKES CANT BE EFFECTIVE means I know more than any of them so heeeey shut the fuck up and quit whiteknighting someone who is deliberately withholding sources and yet keeps quoting stats no one else can access?
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ahaha you are a big babby she forgot to post something relevant to the topic out of sheer ignorance and you throw a fit because she beat you because of it.
Edit: oh wait she told you to look up local canadian stuff ahahaha.
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It wasn't sheer ignorance- I posted a page of search results so that there are a range of sources like I said before. If I posted specific articles anyone could say I was being biased in the articles I chose.
And Magical N, it's getting really hard to take your argument seriously.
Here are some articles I looked up, these are from generally well-regarded sources- The National Post (Centre Right) The Toronto Star (Centre Left) Macleans (Right)
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/05/205958.aspx
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/30/york-university-strike-update-no-deal-reached.aspx
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/08/2008-york-university-strike-is-cupes-waterloo/
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/06/york-university-strike-is-a-power-struggle-and-not-about-wages/
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/552005
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ahaha you are a big babby she forgot to post something relevant to the topic out of sheer ignorance and you throw a fit because she beat you because of it.
no she's refused to, not forgotten.
Magical Negro, I linked google so people could see a range of sources and articles regarding the situation since there are too many and any particular one I linked could be biased.
convenient excuse to make shit up isn't it.
It wasn't sheer ignorance- I posted a page of search results so that there are a range of sources like I said before. If I posted specific articles anyone could say I was being biased in the articles I chose. And Magical N, it's getting really hard to take your argument seriously.
that's complete horseshit. there's an editorial section for a reason and your bullshit about I WANT TO BE...FAIR doesn't hold water when you're pushing an anti-union agenda from your first post.
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people might accuse me of being biased if I give them a fact based article *posts a whole bunch of biased shit in opening post instead*
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I've just edited my post with some links. I tried to grab from sources ranging from the left to right. I did do a search for the strike with the word "pro" added in but nothing came up except anti-strike websites again.
EDIT: Because the strike has been going on a long time, I'd also like to add that there's no one article covering the events.
Also, here are some youtube links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5QSUjZXwzg (from CBC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmNGx3sCIQ&feature=related (CHCH) (Debate)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCFtYGZwjUU&feature=related (CUPE) (FAQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coIdkIkBuyY (independent source) (Pro-STrike)
Again I couldn't find videos searching "pro york strike) except that last one which is independent, a couple other vlogs. But there's no official news which is pro York Strike.
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dont wanna appear biased:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/05/205958.aspx
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/11/30/york-university-strike-update-no-deal-reached.aspx
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/08/2008-york-university-strike-is-cupes-waterloo/
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/06/york-university-strike-is-a-power-struggle-and-not-about-wages/
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/552005
The National Post (Centre Right) The Toronto Star (Centre Left) Macleans (Right)
so i'm gonna post center right, center right, right wing, right wing, and a single solitary center left. im not biased guys. you can pick and choose, only four of the links are biased against unions like me and two of them are ridiculously so.
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you've got flowerpower doing the same grassfucker routine.
are you really that hurt over that one quote? here, i found the link:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/04/02/drivers-made-more-than-me-ttc-chief-says.aspx
i didn't look up this link before. i took up the quote directly from SA which i guess was a mistake. anyway, looks like the minimum wage is pretty standard across the board...i still believe it's too high but who am i to dictate fairness of wages? :fogetshrug:
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maybe stop being concerned with bias and withholding links so you can bullshit your way through internet arguments you can post a news article and your opinion. because I checked all those articles already, and it's possible I missed it as they are pretty awfully written but:
Not everyone in the union wanted to strike, magical n, it was about 500 out of 1500. And they are from the highest paid TAs in our entire province. They're striking against a non-profit university, and locking hundreds of thousands out. It's not a minor inconvenience, its people who can't afford it (students and working shmos) losing minimum $5000 education that they've paid for out of THEIR hard work and jobs with minimum wage hourly rates.
when you make a claim like this it is good to source it since none of the links have that part about 1/3 determining the strike.
are you really that hurt over that one quote?
once again, I have been on these forums a long time. I can think of multiple times people just MADE SHIT UP. sorry for asking that oddly substanceless quotes be given context?
case and fucking point
The head of the TTC says that having 58 bus drivers, ticket collectors and mechanics earning more than $100,000 a year may look bad, but such highly paid blue-collar workers are more the exception than the rule.
Councillor Adam Giambrone, chairman of the Toronto Transit Commission, said yesterday most transit workers earn about half of what their most highly paid colleagues made last year. The handful of workers who made in excess of $100,000 did so by putting in “hundreds of hours” of overtime, he said.
“The total numbers aren’t that far out of whack,” Mr. Giambrone said. “But what’s been happening more and more is that a lot of our employees are refusing overtime. So we get a small number of employees working in some cases more than 1,000 hours overtime in a year.”
The TTC’s budget for overtime has remained below $30-million a year for several years, he said. “It doesn’t look good, it’s true,” Mr. Giambrone said. “But it’s only about 3% of our 12,000 employees on that list.”
LESS THAN THREE PERCENT. sooo basically you quoted something with no regard for the reality of the situation. lookout! some people worked absurd overtime!
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seriously how are any of you giving me shit about this? this is basic HOW TO FORUMS. don't say shit and then argue you don't have to back it up or someone is "butthurt" (we know what you meant...) when they want to know the context. I asked Marcus to do the exact same thing a few minutes ago and he did it! it is the miracle of CONTEXT.
otherwise you will end up posting YOUTUBE VIDEOS AS A MEDICAL SOURCE.
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dont wanna appear biased:
so i'm gonna post center right, center right, right wing, right wing, and a single solitary center left. im not biased guys. you can pick and choose, only four of the links are biased against unions like me and two of them are ridiculously so.
Sorry, Canada is incredibly left wing, so when we think of balancing posts we usually post more right wing to try to counterbalance the left wing media. You als o have to remember our left and right wing medias are very different from those in the U.S.
Here's more from the Toronto Star (Centre Left) since you asked. They are against the strike.
Is York U. strike devaluing degrees? http://www.thestar.com/article/560741
Anguish at York University http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/564272
York U Strike Vote Set for Next Week http://www.thestar.com/article/570057
York U. Students Voice Anger Online http://www.thestar.com/article/533878
These are the first results when searching the Toronto Star for York U Strike. Here's a list of more. It's a google page but it's searched only the Toronto Star Website http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.thestar.com+toronto+star+york+u+strike
Here's the first results from a far left paper, the Toronto Sun. It's also against the strike.
Toronto U Strike Splits Students
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2008/11/18/7446496-sun.html#/news/2008/11/17/pf-7444146.html (Video)
One Way or Another, End York U Strike
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/editorial/2009/01/20/8079941-sun.html
McGuinty won't recall legislature over York U. strike yet
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/01/19/8074656.html
End York U Strike Now
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/innocent_madawo/2008/12/11/7703801-sun.html
York U Students Rally Against Strike
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2008/11/17/7440036.html
Again, here are more articles, google used to search through the sun's website. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.torontosun.com+toronto+sun+york+u+strike
I believe I've covered every major publication in Toronto except the Metro and 24 which are unreliable subway readers mostly focused on celebrity gossip, and The Globe and Mail which is a far right paper that's very boring to read.
EDIT: Please stop double posting and complaining about things not being there. I am searching the articles for you and that takes time since my connection is slow. You can irrationally insult me after I'm done answering to your painfully self-righteous demands.
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All I can say is that when I went to the google list all I found was one real article that told me anything and even that didn't tell me anything helpful in coming to a decent conclusion to any of this so this RANGE OF SOURCES thing didn't really work! Even when you do find articles, if you know NOTHING about the situation it's impossible to filter through the articles for any truth.
also:
Sorry, Canada is incredibly left wing, so when we think of balancing posts we usually post more right wing to try to counterbalance the left wing media. You als o have to remember our left and right wing medias are very different from those in the U.S.
sorry when i read this all i could think was LIBERAL JEW MEDIA
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All I can say is that when I went to the google list all I found was one real article that told me anything and even that didn't tell me anything helpful in coming to a decent conclusion to any of this so this RANGE OF SOURCES thing didn't really work! Even when you do find articles, if you know NOTHING about the situation it's impossible to filter through the articles for any truth.
also:
sorry when i read this all i could think was LIBERAL JEW MEDIA
Are the articles I've posted (on this page) of any assisstance? It is very difficult to guage the situation if you haven't been following it as we have in Ontario, but that's the best I can really do unless you feel like moving to Canada :-/
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Not everyone in the union wanted to strike, magical n, it was about 500 out of 1500.
I really can't believe that. Especially considering that 63% of the union membership rejected the latest offer from York (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/national/090120/n0120119A.html) just a couple of hours ago.
They're striking against a non-profit university, and locking hundreds of thousands out.
Irrelevant. The fact that they're "non-profit" doesn't mean that they're any less the boss. TAs are a paid position, with the same rights to union membership as any other group. They exercised those rights, and went on strike. "Locking hundreds of thousands out" is entirely the point. I don't think you understand what a "strike" is.
It's not a minor inconvenience, its people who can't afford it (students and working shmos) losing minimum $5000 education that they've paid for out of THEIR hard work and jobs with minimum wage hourly rates.
So the issue is with York for not refunding tuition. I don't see what this has to do with the union.
And we're not raging republicans- first of all because we're Canadian, and we don't have republicans, and secondly because even though they're workers and I'm all for workers rights, there are times when people are just WRONG. It's not the case in every strike situation, but this strike situation is terrible.
"I'm not against workers rights. I'm just against workers exercising their rights when I don't agree with it." So, really, you're not "all for" workers rights, at all.
Furthermore, the Toronto Sun isn't left-wing at all. It's a conservative rag through and through.
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Sorry, I never read the Sun, but I was under the impression that it was left wing. Is this correct, then?
Right Wing- National Post, Globe and Mail, Toronto Sun
Left Wing- Toronto Star
And yes I'm all for workers rights. But they key word here is RIGHTS. I'm not for some small amount of workers taking advantage of many others to further themselves. Even from the most basic utilitarian perspective, this situation is wrong.
Secondly, I understand what a strike is, but I also understand what fairness is. And this isn't fair to people who have worked extremely hard to raise the money to go to university.
Third, 63% rejecting the offer doesn't make it unefasable that there would have been a low vote on the strike, since if they're striking already some might decide that after all this trouble they should wait it out longer for a better deal.
Fourth, I've been re-searching for the source on the 1/3 vote thing but I can't find it (I had found it a few hours prior to starting this thread). It was on a York-related site, and the person who said it claimed to be part of the union (but a member of the union who was against the strike).
Furthermore, the argument that seems to stick out here is completely irrational, because all it seems to say is that in the case of every single strike, the workers will universally be correct in striking, and anyone who disagrees doesn't believe in workers rights, and is a "republican" mad-dog. The entire argument is a fallacy.
Besides, workers rights aside, what about human rights and the right to an education? Both workers and students deserve their rights, and yes workers have the right to be paid fairly, but the fact is that the university is underfunded by the government, it's non-profit, and it can't afford to give them the raise that they want, as has been made clear. Striking is vain because either they hold out and don't get what they want, or they get what they want, but there are cuts to the quality of the education for 500,000 students each year onward. We all know that our university system is ailing right now from lack of funds (there are rallies about it all the time). So how can we expect these strained institutions to appease them AND keep up their education services?
Also, on a personal level (since there seems to be a lot of personal attacks in this debate) just because I disagree with THIS strike does not mean I disagree with all strikes, or the right to a fair wage, safe conditions, and reasonable hours. I find this strike to be unreasonable because it's denying peope a basic need, and also could make them lose opportunities that will effect their entire lives for the worse.
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Either then that all sources I can think of for the stuff in Canada specifically is provinical Newspapers and The Sun (which is the only other Newspaper besides Winnipeg Press that I have access too without internet).
Anyways, I have not once read anything in the Newspaper about this strike. Theres this thing in the Newspapers in my province about old buildings/ destruction constuction, Ikea setting up shop in Winnipeg, First Nations, Barack Obama, typical Paul Martin hate about him sticking a thumb up his ass waiting things out, and some cripple who got deported within the last 6 days.
This is unfortunently not a concern to manitoba media apparently. The only other source of information beyond Newspapers is Maclean's that deals specifically in world issues (it's the only few magazines I trust really).
Anyways, this is gonna be one of those things where nobody is gonna be happy in the end, thats how it's gonna happen. And the school can't just close down after this either (it's old news in all of Canada, so Google might not get it on the first page), if they end up losing.
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Furthermore, the argument that seems to stick out here is completely irrational, because all it seems to say is that in the case of every single strike, the workers will universally be correct in striking, and anyone who disagrees doesn't believe in workers rights, and is a "republican" mad-dog. The entire argument is a fallacy.
It's called working class solidarity. These people obviously feel that they deserve a higher wage than what they get for their work in exercising their right to organize and strike against their employer, they're taking what they feel to be the best course of action in order to get what they demand. Where's the fallacy in this? Who are you or anyone else to tell them that striking is 'not the right thing to do because it inconveniences others'? Wouldn't the people actually doing the work essential for the function of the University be the best ones to decide what their labor is worth?
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let the people choose, the majority is right! my kids eat candy for breakfast! all television should be reality television and if it's not it should be adult swim monkey cheese garbage!
the argument that anyone who's against the rights of the worker is a republican mad-dog is a fallacy. pretty sure the main seperation between the right and the left is on the importance of the worker though
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let the people choose, the majority is right! my kids eat candy for breakfast! all television should be reality television and if it's not it should be adult swim monkey cheese garbage!
What does any of this have to do with workers going on strike?
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yes climbtree kids wanting candy for breakfast and workers wanting fair pay for their labor is definitely equatable. thanks for another outstanding climbtree post.
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sometimes i can't tell when climbtree is ironic posting
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you're the only one stern gupples
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yes climbtree kids wanting candy for breakfast and workers wanting fair pay for their labor is definitely equatable. thanks for another outstanding climbtree post.
thanks for a fantastic ryan post where you show you haven't read the topic you just wanna lock it L.O.L.
Wouldn't the people actually doing the work essential for the function of the University be the best ones to decide what their labor is worth?
No, this is a dumb idea.
Q: How much money do you want?
A: All of it.
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No, this is a dumb idea.
Q: How much money do you want?
A: All of it.
:welp: If you think the idea of workers setting the terms of their employment and collectively deciding what they consider just compensation through a democratic process is dumb, then there's really not much I can say other than I disagree with you considering the level of discussion here.
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these guys have the degrees or whatever is necessary to work at the university right? Apparently yeah, because the university hasn't hired a new staff yet. They have every right to strike because they are needed and hard enough to replace. If they weren't, then this wouldn't be an ordeal.
What are you STUDENTS going to fucking school for? To get a goddamn degree so you'll be needed! Thats why McDonalds can afford to fire an entire staff and then rehire more practically the same day, because the people that work there don't have a worthwhile trade.
This is the way this stuff works: either (A) the employer fucks you because you don't matter or (B) you get to fuck the employer because you're a necessity.
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I think my points are still valid. Whether it's their right or not is not questionable, the TAs have a more serious agenda then just "meeting" their intial goals of higher salaries and so on. They plan to strike with many other universities! That's the reason why they are demanding a 2 year contract only. Do you guys really agree that there should be be mass strikes? Because really, that's exactly what they are pushing for. Because York cannot give them what they are asking for and because the TAs have already soaken their feet, they're just riding it out until the end!
I'm telling you man, we'll just wait and see about what the other schools do. If the other schools go on strike and cause a massive effect on the universities, legistlations will be past to make them an essential service. York is not going to give them what they want so stop sitting there acting like these douches are "fighting" the man. Fuck, I'm 100% FOR employees but do you guys even know how unions work? They like milking shit dry just like EMPLOYERS. I looked over this and honestly I only see the students suffering the MOST.
But hey, it's their legal right, and it's very EASY for you to debate about a school you're not attending. It's not your future right?
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not really man there are actually regulations and stuff set up by my union to actually stop mass striking like that.
do you really think that thousand and thousands of these TAs are going to be willing to stand out in the freezing cold with posterboards while losing their wages and not being able to support their families? This strike isn't going to last forever, its a matter of time until one side concedes or the people that own that university go out looking for more T.A.s.
We're knee deep in a recession and I'm sure the people out there striking realize that and hopefully are not dumb enough to mass strike at the moment.
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I think my points are still valid. Whether it's their right or not is not questionable, the TAs have a more serious agenda then just "meeting" their intial goals of higher salaries and so on. They plan to strike with many other universities! That's the reason why they are demanding a 2 year contract only.
No shit? It's almost like.. if more of them strike.. then can wring more benefits, and higher salaries out of their employers. It's almost like.. many voices.. have more power than few voices...
Do you guys really agree that there should be be mass strikes? Because really, that's exactly what they are pushing for. Because York cannot give them what they are asking for and because the TAs have already soaken their feet, they're just riding it out until the end!
I see nothing wrong with "mass strikes". In fact, I think a nice, big general strike or two would be a good way to give the employing class a good kick in the ass.
I'm telling you man, we'll just wait and see about what the other schools do. If the other schools go on strike and cause a massive effect on the universities, legistlations will be past to make them an essential service. York is not going to give them what they want so stop sitting there acting like these douches are "fighting" the man. Fuck, I'm 100% FOR employees but do you guys even know how unions work? They like milking shit dry just like EMPLOYERS. I looked over this and honestly I only see the students suffering the MOST.
They're not "fighting the man". They're fighting their employers over what they feel are inadequate wages and benefits considering the work that they do. You obviously are not "100% for" the employees, nor do you really seem to know how unions work. Here's a hint: their responsibility is to their MEMBERS, not their employers, not the students, and not the public at large. Hope that helps!
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Ontario to legislate end to York University strike
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/01/24/york-strike.html
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What exactly did the union accomplish! Other then screw students, damage York's credit reputation, and the union's own credibility?
I knew this was going to happen... Jeez.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Edit:
Just to touch up on this, two of the major parties are mostly likely going to vote FOR this legislation. The one that is stalling now is the smallest of the three. 5000 business students have been granted access to go back to school.
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What exactly did the union accomplish! Other then screw students, damage York's credit reputation, and the union's own credibility?
I knew this was going to happen... Jeez.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Edit:
Just to touch up on this, two of the major parties are mostly likely going to vote FOR this legislation. The one that is stalling now is the smallest of the three. 5000 business students have been granted access to go back to school.
Yes, the provincial government stomping on the rights of the workers invalidates what they sought to accomplish. You're basically bragging because the government is taking a shit all over these workers. Please, fuck off and get out. Thanks.
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Ya you can go fuck yourself too. I TOLD you this would happen, and I'm not the one even striking. The initial strike was fine but it wasn't going anywhere. To continue striking threaten the very fact that they CAN strike. Plus the fact that they decline an arbitrator without even considering it was also not a smart move. I'm not repeating myself.
Seriously Rapty, you get the fuck out. It's not my fault they chose to continue striking when something like this was bound to happen.
So save me your sob stories, I guess I'm realistic?
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York University rejected a counter-offer made by the union on Friday. Tyler Shipley of Canadian Union of Public Employees Local 3903 had said the offer included "significantly" reduced demands, agreeing in principle to accept the current wage offer from York
Pardon me. But unless my reading comprehension has completely gone to shit. It looks like, (from your own article) that the union actually lowered the requested wage offer and the school STILL turned it down despite it being the same goddamn amount that THEY (the university) offered to give.
hmph
well now, isn't that a lil odd
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why would they even do that? oh wait, yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised if the university was actually fucking them out of wages and was just waiting for intervention this whole time.
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Yeah, the TAs got fucked in the end. Like I said I knew York wasn't going to give them a fair chance. They should have opted another way out. They had to make an example out of these TAs I guess :fogetshrug:. Still, they did get screwed over in the end, that much is certain.
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They could still strike illegally, engage in work stoppage/walkouts, or rally students to occupy facilities.
I know for damn sure that if I was one of the TAs I'd be looking for ways to organize and stir shit up after being fucked by the state like that.
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They could still strike illegally, engage in work stoppage/walkouts, or rally students to occupy facilities.
I know for damn sure that if I was one of the TAs I'd be looking for ways to organize and stir shit up after being fucked by the state like that.
TBH, I don't know if most York students would rally to occupy facilities for the TAs :-/
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Just a thought . . . has anyone ever wondered why at expensive schools you are frequently taught by TAs, and at cheap schools you are always taught by professors?
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Oops, I missed this thread.
Well, I'll read up on it later. Here's my thoughts though:
There's a reason for having a Union... It's not 'fair' to the students since they're not being re-imbursed for their troubles... however the right to strike is part of your rights in Canada! If you take away the ability to strike (see: Return to Work legislation) then you, as a union member, are pretty screwed. Striking is the Big Dinger in negotiations!
If/when air canada goes on strike here (over the new contract our company is trying to weasle in place) and they force us back to work... the company can do whatever the hell they please, pretty much.
From a student POV it sucks ass.
From a union member POV; yes the faculty in York should be able to strike.
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Just a thought . . . has anyone ever wondered why at expensive schools you are frequently taught by TAs, and at cheap schools you are always taught by professors?
I go to an expensive school and I don't even know if we HAVE TA's (I've not met any). But we're also really small school, so that's probably why the teachers are able to do all this stuff themselves.
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expensive schools usually have better professors for the higher end classes so your first two years end up being TA shit but your later specific classes and also your grad classes have professors.
also tenured profs like to pretty much not teach and the more tenured professors you have the more you gotta pay them.