So what the hell is happening with the economy?The jump in the stock market was in response to the stimulus which pretty much is gonna subsidize most of the risk for investors purchasing 'toxic' assets in hopes of getting credit flowing again.
I see that obama was trying to get his shit passed and mccain was bitching about earmarks and then the dow or something jumped up quite a bit the other day. Are we getting better or was that just a death rattle?
when the hell did he say the united states is the freest country in the world, in fact I'd argue that he believes something contrary to that hehHe's said that multiple times in interviews and lectures
I know hes said some ridiculous shit before but thats stretching it a bit I think
chomsky doesnt say anything new in that interview. basically its just dissemination of what ahmed rashid wrote in his last book for public consumption heh. obviously the stuff about g20 is new, but his analysis isnt something that you or I could have come up with, and it will be a good while before we can really see what the effects of the conference will be because yeahhh takes a while for this shit to sink in you know
not that I am discrediting his statements or saying that you should disregard it but I've seen you link that article a couple times in the last few days and yeah its not as novel and cutting edge as you think despite its coming from chomsky
it is shocking just how little people in this country understand about that conflict and I think what chomsky has done to bring some of our actions to light is pretty admirable, but aside from that I p much agree with you
Nuclear disarmament will never happen
It was usually in response to him posing the question to himself "why not leave if the US is so bad?"what do you want me to say though? how is he "dissident" he just says exactly the same thing as anybody in the liberal left. he doesnt say anything new or particularly interesting about anything why is he regarded as some sort of authority on this issues? it has nothing to do with his academic field so that should not give him cred. even fuckin stalinist dinosaurs like michael motherfuckin parenti are ten times more interesting and original than that douchebag. atleast parenti sticks to his guns chomsky just rambles for a while and then votes democrat.
He's pretty much correct in that he probably enjoys more freedom here as a highly regarded 'dissident' public intellectual in the US than anywhere else(plus he gots him some tenure at MIT).
Marmot is just 'spergin cause chomsky aint some kinda 'left-communo-(true)internationalist-anti-imperialismoid-marxian-digital-workerist' internet club member(I.E. Crypto-Trot)
what do you want me to say though?
We're not stuck there. The usa could pack up and leave tomorrow. Everyone would probably be better off for it.Hello Ron Paul!
ron paul was right about this though???Was he? Are things going to be okay if US troops were to leave right now? Even though I don't know much about this at all it would seem VERY unlikely to me that such a sudden gigantic difference in military presence would go over well. How would local military and police forces be able to cope with a sudden tripling of responsibility? Would the fact that the US military is mostly the target make up for that?
i mean if you ignore the motivations yeah he's completely 100% right.
nothings going to be okay is the thing. iraqs gonna collapse into civil war, they're all dead, wipe hands claphands.So, that's it? What about the UN? You know, I really wonder if and how it will be possible for the international community to do anything once that happens. Look at Darfur. Half a million are dead. If people want to kill one another, there's not really much anyone can do, I guess.
This type of problem is so disgusting it makes me wonder why anyone would ever want to be a politician.
Yeah. I wonder how many people start their political careers ya know gonna CHANGE THE SYSTEM and then their souls get immediately crushed and put through a meat grinderUnfortunately, that's everyone.
Iran officially opened its first nuclear fuel production plant this week if you havent caught that already.Game Theory is so bizarre. How can you accommodate the effectiveness of people's interests, factor in given conditions, and produce a mathematical outcome? Sounds like magic to me. But I hope the results are right. It's not a bad thing for the Iran government to use nuclear energy for civilian purposes, and NOT build a bomb (as the Game Theory projects). But I think the Game Theory doesn't give enough credit to the power of the rising Ayatollahs and the deeply rooted religious mindset in the area. Proponents of the Game Theory claim that history doesn't affect this outcome much. That's according to our increasingly liberal society though, where history doesn't play much of a role (as demonstrated by that Iowan legislator link and how our generation doesn't care about gay marriage). Contrarily, history in the middle-east is a huge factor in their society, and in many cases the 'historical' religious forces actually stepped in to check and reverse liberal ideals, according to John Laffin's book "Holy War" (a terribly biased source, but it makes some sense). What scares me is the Islamic concept of jihad (religious war). According to the Q'uran, Mohammad in his conquest split the world into two categories, Dar-al Islam (the lands of Islam) and Dar-al Harb (the lands of war), and it's basically Islam's duty to dominate the opposing faction. Even if Iran's nuclear program is strictly for civilian use, during times of war (I distrust the area's stability) they will surely use that as an asset to their power. This might sound pretty terrible, and I trolled about this earlier in some other thread, but I sincerely hope that this nuclear program will add a sense of luxury to the Iranian civilians' interests, and that this sense of luxury will mitigate the rising powers of their religious belligerence.
and there aint a whole lot anyone can or is gonna do about it
also watch/read these
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7991282.stm
Taxed Enough Already is waht they stand for. theyre grassroots conservatives. i dont know exactly what theyre protesting, but i assume its taxation in general. whats awesome though is people refer ot them as the "teabaggers"
Hello Ron Paul!this position is not unique to ron paul
*snorts line of coke* your politics are boring as fuckheh fell in with the crimethinc crowd eh?
*fucks butch lesbian on the popes tomb*
this position is not unique to ron paulNeither is racism...
rachel maddow is a personification of the shallow american white liberal political consciousness
Unfortunately, that's everyone.
Game Theory is so bizarre. How can you accommodate the effectiveness of people's interests, factor in given conditions, and produce a mathematical outcome? Sounds like magic to me. But I hope the results are right. It's not a bad thing for the Iran government to use nuclear energy for civilian purposes, and NOT build a bomb (as the Game Theory projects). But I think the Game Theory doesn't give enough credit to the power of the rising Ayatollahs and the deeply rooted religious mindset in the area. Proponents of the Game Theory claim that history doesn't affect this outcome much. That's according to our increasingly liberal society though, where history doesn't play much of a role (as demonstrated by that Iowan legislator link and how our generation doesn't care about gay marriage). Contrarily, history in the middle-east is a huge factor in their society, and in many cases the 'historical' religious forces actually stepped in to check and reverse liberal ideals, according to John Laffin's book "Holy War" (a terribly biased source, but it makes some sense). What scares me is the Islamic concept of jihad (religious war). According to the Q'uran, Mohammad in his conquest split the world into two categories, Dar-al Islam (the lands of Islam) and Dar-al Harb (the lands of war), and it's basically Islam's duty to dominate the opposing faction. Even if Iran's nuclear program is strictly for civilian use, during times of war (I distrust the area's stability) they will surely use that as an asset to their power. This might sound pretty terrible, and I trolled about this earlier in some other thread, but I sincerely hope that this nuclear program will add a sense of luxury to the Iranian civilians' interests, and that this sense of luxury will mitigate the rising powers of their religious belligerence.
Speaking of politics has anyone heard about this latest political scandel about smear campaign suggestions sent using the e-mail technique?
A.B. Culvahouse, a powerful Washington lawyer and former counsel to President Reagan, told an audience of Republican lawyers that for McCain, selecting a vice president came down to three questions: Why do you want to be vice president? Are you prepared to use nuclear weapons? And the CIA has identified Osama bin Laden, but if you take the shot there will be multiple civilian casualties. Do you take the shot?
John McCain’s lead vice presidential vetter said Friday that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin “impressed” in her interview, knocking the senator’s most important questions “out of the park.”
Palin
“out of the park.”
Why do you want to be vice president?
yes
Rep. Jane Harman , the California Democrat with a longtime involvement in intelligence issues, was overheard on an NSA wiretap telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department reduce espionage-related charges against two officials of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, the most powerful pro-Israel organization in Washington.
Harman was recorded saying she would “waddle into” the AIPAC case “if you think it’ll make a difference,” according to two former senior national security officials familiar with the NSA transcript.
In exchange for Harman’s help, the sources said, the suspected Israeli agent pledged to help lobby Nancy Pelosi , D-Calif., then-House minority leader, to appoint Harman chair of the Intelligence Committee after the 2006 elections, which the Democrats were heavily favored to win.
the UN is becoming a shit showsince when was it not?
French Ambassador Jean-Baptiste Mattei said: "As soon as he started to address the question of the Jewish people and Israel, we had no reason to stay in the room," the Associated Press news agency reported.
It is a tactic of intimidation, and forcing people to say what you want them to say. Using it for information is just a pathetic excuse to justify it.
It's been proven time and time again, information squeezed through torture is not reliable information.
Olbermann challenges Hannity to get waterboared, do you think he will accept the challenge?
"If a conservative is a liberal mugged by reality, it seems clear the experience was so traumatic that the victim can't bear to face his attacker ever again."
I've never found out who said it but:
"If a conservative is a liberal mugged by reality, it seems clear the experience was so traumatic that the victim can't bear to face his attacker ever again."
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
if only clarence thomas or scalia would retire. i hate both of those guys so much
I've got no confidence he'll do that, though!
nah his base would still go absolutely nuts if he picks someone who isn't pretty liberal. he is without a doubt picking someone who is unabashedly pro choice and pro gay rights
harriett miers failed nomination was a huge deal during bushs term, as were his other two.
Judge Sonia Sotomayor (born 1954), U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit. Sotomayor was nominated to the bench by President George H.W. Bush in a deal with New York senators in 1991 and elevated to the appeals court in 1998 by President Bill Clinton. She could become the first Hispanic on the Supreme Court. Conservatives have raised questions about her role in upholding the city of New Haven, Conn.'s decision to throw out a firefighter promotions test because no African Americans qualified. The case is now before the Supreme Court.
Judge Diane Wood (born 1950), U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. Wood worked at the antitrust division of the Justice Department during the Clinton administration, and was nominated to the appeals court by Clinton in 1995. She knows Obama from her days as a professor at the University of Chicago law school, where he also taught. Wood, who will turn 60 next year, is the oldest of the candidates frequently mentioned for the court, where the trend has been toward younger justices who would serve for years in the lifetime appointment.
Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw (born 1954), U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit. Wardlaw worked for the Clinton Justice Department transition team and was nominated by Clinton as a federal judge in 1995, then elevated as the first Hispanic American woman to the appeals court in 1998. She is a liberal judge on the nation's most liberal appeals court, and she also had a role in a case now before the Supreme Court. She wrote the appeals court decision that said Arizona school officials violated the constitutional rights of a 13-year-old middle school student who was strip-searched in an unsuccessful effort to find drugs.
Solicitor General Elena Kagan (born 1960). Kagan was confirmed by the Senate to her new job in March on a 61-31 vote, and has yet to argue a case at the court. Her confirmation process was more difficult than some had predicted, as Republican senators accused her of avoiding their questions. In the background was the thought that Kagan might be Obama's first nominee to the court. She is the former dean of the Harvard Law School, worked in the Clinton administration and worked with Obama, although not closely, at the University of Chicago.
Georgia Supreme Court Chief Justice Leah Ward Sears (born 1955). Sears was appointed by then-governor Zell Miller in 1992 and later became the first woman elected in a contested statewide race there. In 2005, she became chief justice, and in the process, became the first African-American woman in the nation to head a state supreme court. Although her current term runs until the end of 2010, Sears has announced she will step down from the job at the end of June.
Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (born 1959). Granholm has encountered political trouble in her state because of the collapsing economy but was seen as a rising Democratic star. Born in Canada, Granholm is a Harvard Law graduate who served as attorney general before winning election as governor in 2002. She frequently campaigned with Obama during the presidential campaign.
Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (born 1956). Patrick worked for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and served as assistant attorney general for civil rights at the Clinton Justice Department, 1994 before becoming a corporate lawyer. He was elected governor in 2006, and has had a rocky time in the job, but is well-liked in the civil rights community.
Judge Ruben Castillo (born 1954). U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois. Castillo is a former assistant U.S. attorney for Chicago and was counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense Fund. He was nominated to the bench by Clinton in 1994.
Kathleen Sullivan (born 1955) Sullivan is a constitutional scholar and former dean of Stanford Law School who has been an active advocate for abortion rights and gay rights. She more recently has represented business interests before the court, and remains director of Stanford's Constitutional Law Center.
Harold Hongju Koh (born 1954) Koh is dean of the Yale University Law School but has been nominated by Obama to be legal adviser to the State Department. He formerly worked in the Office of Legal Counsel and as an assistant secretary of state. His current nomination is under fire from conservatives who criticize his view on international law and its applicability to U.S. judicial decisions.
today a veteran from vietnam told my entire class this generation is not up to the challenge of stopping an illegal warI don't think that's really fair though. He's right that most young people are dumb and apathetic, but nobody is facing a draft and hearing about friends/family dying in huge numbers as was the case during vietnam. When people are facing miserable living conditions and/or are personally threatened, opposition starts getting a lot more radical and militant.
it was awesome
you're right which is scary cuz i hate that we'll only care enough to stop a war when we're pretty much losing or stalemated
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8059104.stmI sure hope not. The US would definitely get dragged into a conflict between the two and that's a pretty terrifying thought.
Iran has test launched some missiles that are capable of hitting Israel. Wonder what's gonna come of this. Israel has been waiting for a reason to get to Iran maybe this is it???
the israeli prime minister is ridiculously conservative and hawkish too. wouldnt be surprised to hear of an israeli airstrike (possibly with nuclear tipped bunker busters!) on iranian compounds in the next few months
Everything you know about Iran is wrong, or at least more complicated than you think. Take the bomb. The regime wants to be a nuclear power but could well be happy with a peaceful civilian program (which could make the challenge it poses more complex). What's the evidence? Well, over the last five years, senior Iranian officials at every level have repeatedly asserted that they do not intend to build nuclear weapons. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has quoted the regime's founding father, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who asserted that such weapons were "un-Islamic." The country's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa in 2004 describing the use of nuclear weapons as immoral. In a subsequent sermon, he declared that "developing, producing or stockpiling nuclear weapons is forbidden under Islam." Last year Khamenei reiterated all these points after meeting with the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei. Now, of course, they could all be lying. But it seems odd for a regime that derives its legitimacy from its fidelity to Islam to declare constantly that these weapons are un-Islamic if it intends to develop them. It would be far shrewder to stop reminding people of Khomeini's statements and stop issuing new fatwas against nukes.
Obama to nominate Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30938978/)Calling all indians to the topic...
But part of his political calculation is how smoothly Sotomayor's nomination will get through. At a time when his agenda is packed with big domestic items and he needs help from both parties, Obama may not want to spend political capital on a more contentious choice.Sounds very strange to me. It's like they're saying he would have preferred someone else, but just wants to get this over with so he can resume working on those "big domestic items" that are so much more important, even though they have not written a single word about why this is such a political choice.
Guess old jamie was right about the political angle.
I hate the term "political capital" and the idea that there's some form of finite 'politics money' that a president has that limits the amount of action they can take because its completely misleading about why certain decisions are made and allows whatever writer using the term to speculate and make excuses.
"Naw, obama would like a single payer healthcare system in the US, but he can't because he doesn't have enough politics dollars, not that he and his party are in the pockets of insurance giants"
who would have thought politics would be in play here
politically he made a smart choice by selecting the first latina supreme court pick, also a woman.Wasn't that pretty inevitable either way, though?
uh??? he actually chose a fairly liberal, activist judge. people dont appoint middle of the road judges to the supreme court, sorry jamie
politically he made a smart choice by selecting the first latina supreme court pick, also a woman.
what are you even talking about jamie
Is Dick Cheney gunning to achieve Al Gore-level of celebrity? Is that why he won't go away?He's vying to become the Republican gold standard. At that, it seems he's succeeding, as the base has shrunk to a core and most other mainstream figures are kind of looney. He must have practiced that scornful look for days as part of his torture justification program just so people will come to think of him as the big watchdog who, despite using reprehensible methods, did keep everybody safe at night.
anyway, why would he go away
He's vying to become the Republican gold standard. At that, it seems he's succeeding, as the base has shrunk to a core and most other mainstream figures are kind of looney. He must have practiced that scornful look for days as part of his torture justification program just so people will come to think of him as the big watchdog who, despite using reprehensible methods, did keep everybody safe at night.
I continually am amazed at how Bush, Cheney, Rove, and all the other hacks managed to take this country to a place where the viability of torture is even dignified to raise to the level of public debate as a valid policy... or maybe I'm just a little naive.it's not like the US just came out of some ideal state of liberty/justice until that nasty bush gang came along
it's not like the US just came out of some ideal state of liberty/justice until that nasty bush gang came along
i watched a lil bit of glenn becks show today and hes the craziest motherfucker everthat guy is just a coked out alex jones lite
i'm just being naive!
what he was saying tho is before bush/cheney this shit was never in OPEN DEBATE over the national news. if torture was brought up a few decades ago we'd be all going OH NO!! regardless of whether or not we did it behind closed doors.I'd say that this is a pretty recent phenomenon. I mean this is a nation built on the elimination of natives and slavery, reconstruction era was pretty much openly horrible without too much outrage, concentration camps in the Philippines were no secret, japanese internment was at best considered a necessary inconvenience, etc etc etc
hey who is this steele guy? Is he of any significance at all?He's one of those incompetent Republican big shots and currently the chairman of the RNC. He is characterized by his TV performances during which he tends to say incredibly awkward and sometimes downright stupid things. Remember "Drill Baby Drill"? That was coined by him.
i (think i) know what they both are, i just thought they were slightly contradictory! i always thought of neoconservatism as direct WE GONNA CONQUER YOU imperialism, ie iraq, while neoliberalism was the more economic imperialism approachthey're not necessarily mutually exclusive. Neoliberalism is basically the forcing open of markets using things like loans and trade agreements, neoconservatism is more of a general overarching agenda of pursuing global hegemony by just about any means possible, including imposing neoliberal reforms and the use of military force.
socially though i think they're a bit different!
steele also said he wants to bring hiphop to the Republicans, it was great.How genuine is he? I love it when he does his thing because it looks and sounds so AWKWARD but still very sympathetic somehow.
i think steele genuinely wants to reach out to young constituents and honestly doesn't seem nearly as bad as most of the rest of his party
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians*endorses Palestinian independence but says it's ok to continue to illegally expand settlements on their land*
I wonder if it'll work out.
Two, mutual feelings .... You have a particular grace and calm that I adore. You have a level of sophistication that so fitting with your beauty. I could digress and say that you have the ability to give magnificent gentle kisses, or that I love your tan lines or that I love the curve of your hips, the erotic beauty of you holding yourself (or two magnificent parts of yourself) in the faded glow of the night’s light - but hey, that would be going into sexual details...
Three and finally, while all the things above are all too true - at the same time we are in a hopelessly - or as you put it impossible - or how about combine and simply say hopelessly impossible situation of love. How in the world this lightening strike snuck up on us I am still not quite sure. As I have said to you before I certainly had a special feeling about you from the first time we met, but these feelings were contained and I genuinely enjoyed our special friendship and the comparing of all too many personal notes...
Lastly I also suspect I feel a little vulnerable because this is ground I have never certainly never covered before - so if you have pearls of wisdom on how we figure all this out please let me know... In the meantime please sleep soundly knowing that despite the best efforts of my head my heart cries out for you, your voice, your body, the touch of your lips, the touch of your finger tips and an even deeper connection to your soul.
Anyone else following the story about South Carolina's governor? For those who don't know, Gov. Sanford disappeared on Friday without telling anyone where he was going. Then yesterday he claimed that he went hiking. The truth is though that he was in Argentina with his mistress. I just found out while watching Olbermann's show on MSNBC while he was reading this email from Sanford to his girlfriend:Fun fact: when he gave his speech on that subject he was labeled (D) by Fox News.
Fun fact: when he gave his speech on that subject he was labeled (D) by Fox News.
Man I don't know how the coal industries even got away with that name.
Been hearing alot about clean coal being complete bullshit though
Man I don't know how the coal industries even got away with that name.
I guess its cuz people don't really know a whole lot about mining, but goddamn they deserve some kind of reward for successfully greenwashing one of the most filthy and environmentally degrading energy sources.
I watched something about there actually being a way to purify it but the purifier or whatever costs a fuckload of money and they haven't even refined the technology it uses yet. There is like only one in the entire US or some bullshit and its not capable of processing all of the coal we're going to start mining.Probably, but then the energy and money required to extract and refine it would rise to the point where it wouldn't be a very profitable/easy/efficient source of power
And yeah the process of mining in itself is very dangerous and dirty as shit but I'm sure if we really wanted to we could find a way to extract it and maybe rebuild the mountains back up without blowing everything to hell.
right?! I was pretty appalled when I first heard about how they actually go about harvesting coal. Which, is not to say that it's any less appalling now.So, the looters have finally caught on.
Here's a picture, for anybody reading this that doesn't know what that's all about. They literally lop off the top of mountains!
(https://legacy.gamingw.net/etc/www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/42_tn.jpeg)
It's not the quality of health care it's the cost - wellness and fitness!
http://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/2408039015
Does anyone know what that even means?
i find that quote, and the fact that mccain is on twitter, fucking hilarious.Allegedly it's "mostly" being updated by his staff but I wonder if he can use a PDA at all. He said during the campaign that he didn't know how to use a computer.
Allegedly it's "mostly" being updated by his staff but I wonder if he can use a PDA at all. He said during the campaign that he didn't know how to use a computer.
Unless he has a big issue with the concept of moving and clicking a mouse.Try turning your mouse so that it's facing you. Now when you try to do anything it'll feel really awkward and difficult. That's sort of how it feels to start using one for the first time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bil-browning/steele-gop-woos-blacks-wi_b_231534.htmlI love Michael Steele. "My plan is to say 'y'all, come'."
hahahahahahaha
http://www.ronpaulsingles.com/
hahahahahahaha'm surfing the Tsunami of Doom. While I fully expect the collapse of the world I have always known, I have never been happier. I whistle a happy tune as I prepare for the economic apocalypse. My interests are meditation, woodworking with traditional hand tools, the natural world, shooting, laughing at the absurdity of existence.
http://www.ronpaulsingles.com/
laughing at the absurdity of existence.At least we have one thing in common, LibertyGal82.
Today on TWITTER I decided to respond to some guy I didn't know who said health care wasn't defined as a constitutional right. I told him education isn't a constitutional right either, and yet the vast majority of Americans believe that everybody should have access to it, and asked him if we should abolish it.they teach you stuff you don't need to know lol
He first called my question stupid, then said that education is a shining example of "gov't failure on all levels".
I know next to nothing about education in America, but I know there seems to be a general consensus that it needs fixing of some kind, so maybe someone here could explain to me exactly what's wrong with it?
Today on TWITTER I decided to respond to some guy I didn't know who said health care wasn't defined as a constitutional right. I told him education isn't a constitutional right either, and yet the vast majority of Americans believe that everybody should have access to it, and asked him if we should abolish it.it's ok but I'm in one of the smart states :doom:
He first called my question stupid, then said that education is a shining example of "gov't failure on all levels".
I know next to nothing about education in America, but I know there seems to be a general consensus that it needs fixing of some kind, so maybe someone here could explain to me exactly what's wrong with it?
they teach you stuff you don't need to know lol
the american primary and secondary education systems make you feel like you live in a fascist state
only one interpretation of everything is accepted and critical thinking is discouraged
the american primary and secondary education systems make you feel like you live in a fascist state
only one interpretation of everything is accepted and critical thinking is discouraged
In some cases, yes. But I always had a few really great teachers who really got us questioning things and dispelling ignorance among us. My American Government teacher was a real nut, and his entire class consisted of him getting all fired up about how Bush is raping the U.S. and why marijuana should be legal. He taught us the word Neocon and we learned how corporations are basically corrupt by definition. He preached libertarianism all day, but it was a fresh perspective on things. Of course, I had a few other good teachers that were much more well-rounded.well yeah I had some really good teachers in high school as well, but for every english teacher who teaches mythology by using joseph campell and for every history teacher that uses howard zinn you've got 5-10 others who would prefer just to lecture out of their McGraw-Hill (tm) textbook and have the students do worksheets to make sure they gleaned all the pre-approved sanitized censored and brainwashing details from the book without any discussion or encouragement to analyze the information being presented
In some cases, yes. But I always had a few really great teachers who really got us questioning things and dispelling ignorance among us. My American Government teacher was a real nut, and his entire class consisted of him getting all fired up about how Bush is raping the U.S. and why marijuana should be legal. He taught us the word Neocon and we learned how corporations are basically corrupt by definition. He preached libertarianism all day, but it was a fresh perspective on things. Of course, I had a few other good teachers that were much more well-rounded.
Just today I read a story about the likelihood that Chiquita Brands (the old United Fruit Company) and the Dole company did not want Manuel Zelaya to raise the minimum wage in Honduras because it would affect the fruit companies' profits. So they pulled an old play from their corporate imperialist playbook and with assistance from the ever-ready CIA, helped oust Zelaya in a coup.
holy fuck, if chiquita staged a coup, that's crazy. it's one thing when nations get overzealous in their foreign relations, but a damn fruit company?i heard they planned on turning the country into a banana republic
Just today I read a story about the likelihood that Chiquita Brands (the old United Fruit Company) and the Dole company did not want Manuel Zelaya to raise the minimum wage in Honduras because it would affect the fruit companies' profits. So they pulled an old play from their corporate imperialist playbook and with assistance from the ever-ready CIA, helped oust Zelaya in a coup.
No buddy I know they do it all the time but "fruit corporation ordered coup detat in honduras" is on the same level as jews did 911not really
Ok then pick another plausible conspiracy theoryHave you seen those recent Democrat town hall meetings about health care? Those people who spontaneously jump up from their seats and start yelling things aren't really concerned patriots. They're really hired guns being bussed around the country to cause trouble and make it appear as though there's no public support for the current bill. Paid for by firms that specialize in "fake grassroots", in turn paid for by the health care industry giants.
No buddy I know they do it all the time but "fruit corporation ordered coup detat in honduras" is on the same level as jews did 911you need to do a little readin about what the US government and American companies have been up to since 1870 in the global south lol
you need to do a little readin about what the US government and American companies have been up to since 1870 in the global south lol
hawaii
still technically part of the global south cause except for oahu and maui most of it is just fruit plantations and jungles
Obama's sense of "humor" is so stupid. The way he sets up "jokes" makes you think he had a team of 20 and a national survey all come together to incorporate the most bland, unoffensive little jab.I agree, it was much funnier when he joked about the Special Olympics.
*presides over the largest transfer of public wealth into private hands in history, sends more troops to war, marginalizes single payer healthcare reform in favor of a "public option" that might never even ever exist, allows the right in the US to turn the term 'socialist' into a slur that must be defended against*
well to be fair you're talking to a bunch of young kids whom 2008 was either their first or second chance at voting. they had yet to have their spirits crushed by the democrats.
it's not that bad
OH WO IS ME our country sucks these days has it always been this shitty
it's not that bad
be thankful you aren't one of our vassals
edit I should clarify, the second line is a joke because I'm playing civ IV right now and I'm killing a lot of civilians from other nations to get ahead.
well to be fair you're talking to a bunch of young kids whom 2008 was either their first or second chance at voting. they had yet to have their spirits crushed by the democrats.That was also a shockingly popular sentiment among a bunch of lefty activist folks I know, even ones who call themselves communists.
ok yeah but to be fair theres no fucking way he could get single payer oriented reform through the house and senate and at least he's doing SOMETHING.nope sorry. He the people surrounding him made it plenty clear that they weren't even going to consider that shit.
Guys I don't understand a single politic cause fuck the news, why do so many americans not want proper healthcare :)
NO GUYS YOU SEE, WE HAVE TO SUPPORT OBAMA, GET HIM ELECTED, AND THEN PUSH THE DEMOCRATS TO THE LEFT!!!What it comes down to is the fact that there's no progressive party in the US. By that standard, there's not even really a left wing. Just a centrist party that, like the right, receives their daily bread from the many influence groups that decide on the contents of the law. The greatest difference in identity is the education level they cater to.
It sounds like a cliché, but every election cycle it seems like "lesser of two evils" is true in some way.It really isn't true at all and is one of the saddest lies that otherwise intelligent people(primarily privileged folks not entirely alienated by capitalism-imperialism) readily accept.
It really isn't true at all and is one of the saddest lies that otherwise intelligent people(primarily privileged folks not entirely alienated by capitalism-imperialism) readily accept.How so? Sure, the alternatives exist, but I take "lesser of two evils" to mean "I want to vote for candidate A, but he has little chance of winning, so I'll vote for candidate B instead to prevent candidate Z from winning". It's a perfectly valid and theoretically recognized positive feedback loop wherein people choose based on the choices of others.
it's not true because the democrats aren't a lesser evil than the republicans.Of course they are. There's always a lesser evil. To imply otherwise would be to say that there is no political market in the US at all. (And hey, maybe there isn't. Who am I to say?) I suppose it depends on how much of it you choose to ignore. If you look at both parties only based on whether they are influenced by corporate interests, then yes, both are the same (although there's a categorical divide; democrats identify with different corporate interests than republicans). If I were a pro-lifer I'd be inclined to say the exact same about the Netherlands as what you're saying right now, that there is no lesser evil, since there is no party that wishes to ban abortions--except the conservative SGP party which only receives votes from their extremely small yet loyal base. The thing is, I'd have to ignore quite a lot of issues to be able to look at it that way.
i think the problems with every developed democracy are so big that things like gradualism and revolution are barely even relevant, at least not in the immediate. i get your total refusal to entertain crap about pushing dems to the left, but what else would you realistically recommend? i said this ages ago and alot of my opinions have changed since then but i think that any big shift in politics is going to start from undetectably low levels and that stuff takes time. whining (or gloating) about presidential politics isn't helpful to anyone.the whining and gloating is only 'cuz it's the innernet where I can be a complete dick without any social repercussions..
you are older than i am joe, and you've had more experience for sure, but i wonder why the heck you don't address the molasses pace of what you propose in the now (while i totally agree with it), and why you don't seem to recognise the fact that you are talking huge scale change that only happens after things have been bubbling for decades and that isn't where america from any perspective.
How so? Sure, the alternatives exist, but I take "lesser of two evils" to mean "I want to vote for candidate A, but he has little chance of winning, so I'll vote for candidate B instead to prevent candidate Z from winning". It's a perfectly valid and theoretically recognized positive feedback loop wherein people choose based on the choices of others.Think about where this leads...
Think about where this leads...You say that as if it is a matter of choice. As long as it isn't, there's not really a reason to factor it into the equation. I don't recall ever saying that I thought it was any good for anyone, but it's part of the framework we are required to operate within. As soon as you step outside of those boundaries, you're no longer talking about politics.
the shitty situation that exists today
it's like trying to decide whether a bird shitting on your left shoulder is better than a bird shitting on your right shoulder.Now you're just being overly cynical. You're right that there are overarching matters that prevent a country like the US from really moving forward in an as tangible way as it should, but like I said, it depends entirely on how much you are willing to ignore.
democrats may occasionally appear to throw people a bone with things like healthcareIt's your dismissal of these things as a "bone" that makes you overly cynical in my view. Reality is that there are only two parties that stand to win anything when it comes to a major election. If you insist that you might as well flip a coin, go ahead and do just that, but I think it's incorrect to suggest that all their differences are merely superficial.
i know how to make democracy work. attach electric shock collars to every elected official and broadcast every minute of every day of their lives via webcam. when the public disapproves of an action, they put in a SHOCK VOTE which, when the vote count reaches a pre-determined magic number on a particular issue, will send a crippling blast of electricity through the elected official.Giving more power to the electorate is generally a good idea, especially in a country like the US, but history has shown that in certain areas (at least here in the Netherlands) people can do stupid things when given the opportunity to vote on a referendum. And just like elected officials, people can be influenced into the wrong direction.
by marxist standards a large percentage of the american population is petit-bourgeoisie. how do you sell the idea of a proletariat revolution to people who, while not a part of the ruling elite, are also certainly not a part of the proletariat?for the most part, you don't. You organize the youth, lower classes, immigrants, and disenfranchised. Sorta like the IWW, SDS, or Black Panther Party did. While most people see themselves as "middle class", the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people's relationship to capital places them in the exploited class.
then there's also how america isn't a pure capitalist society anymore and has since made many socialist compromises, the existence of all kinds of new technologies and arguably even pharmaceutical drugs that keep people drooling and complacent and that marx never could've predicted, and also that a large percentage of the population is unfathomably stupid and genuinely believes that socialism and authoritarianism are synonymous.
but even if you ignore all that or can somehow overcome those hurdles and also topple the government, what do you do about organizations such as blackwater that posses their own private armies and intelligence networks? if they aren't going to be there to assist the government during the revolt then I would assume they would wait until the government is neutralized and the country is in a weakened condition before they'd strike and establish a police state.armed struggle, general strikes, and mobilization of the majority of the populace have been successful strategies in the past and I don't see why they wouldn't work in the future during a time of severe economic/social crisis which would catalyze a socialist revolution.
what do you do to not repeat the mistakes of every other communist nation who were unable to break out of the transition phase between capitalism and pure marxist communism?Study history and learn from them. Seems like the most logical way to correct mistakes to me.
it seems more to me like the way in which most marxists want to establish their ideology probably seemed more feasible during marx's time when the living conditions of the working class in the west were about the equivalent to the living conditions of today's sweatshop workers in the third world.given the productive capacity to pretty much eliminate scarcity of the basic needs of everyone on earth and flow of information that modern technology enables, the implementation of a planned economy is more feasible than ever(it actually already is planned in many respects, but those in control of production and doing the planning are not the working class).
not that I'm arguing in favor of gradualism though. personally I think that a halfway compromise might be the only option available. basically the entire working class unites and goes on strike and effectively shuts down the entire economy until their demands are met. this is sort of what was happening in america in the 19th and early 20th centuries and it led to things like unions and worker's rights.Which is why communist vanguard organization(s) are necessary to take things a step beyond that.(see Lenin's 'What is to be Done?' for more on this)
regardless of how it goes down I think that socialists and progressives in america first need a complete rebranding. it's stupid, but if these healthcare protests taught anybody anything it's that there's really no way you can make any significant progress in america if you explicitly refer to yourself as a socialist. doing so would alienate at least half the population from your cause and it wouldn't matter to them that in doing so they're acting against their own self-interest.Rather than rebranding, I think socialists ought to be more aggressively open about being socialists and what it actually means. The marginalization of socialism is part of the open class conflict going on right now. It's up to us to organize, speak up, and be internationalists standing in solidarity with revolutionary movements all over the world.
As soon as you step outside of those boundaries, you're no longer talking about politics.
this is another lieMaybe, but that still doesn't make it a matter of choice.
Rather than rebranding, I think socialists ought to be more aggressively open about being socialists and what it actually means.How about using the fact that disgruntled right-wingers have turned the word "socialism" into a slur as momentum? Even bad publicity is publicity, and they're fighting a still popular president. If a gun-toting Joe the truck driver with an "Obama == Muslim Marxist" sign keeps screaming "socialism" at the top of his lungs, well, then it can't be all that bad, can it?
And what about trying to somehow mimic the online Ron Paul campaign? Sure, the guy's run was a complete failure, but some of that can be attributed to the fact he was a truly awful candidate. He did win a lot of souls somehow.
I don't see how Ron Paul is so awful. He seems to be a voice of reason among a lot of insanity out there, even if some of his ideas are unrealistic.Because he's a anti-semitic and homophobic racist who frequently flirts with extreme right-wing tin foil hat conspiracy theories and doesn't believe in the theory of evolution.
I don't see how Ron Paul is so awful. He seems to be a voice of reason among a lot of insanity out there, even if some of his ideas are unrealistic.libertarians *is a political party 99% made up of racist gun nuts who are the worst capitalists in the world and voted for mccain instead of paul or bob barr and who are against uhc, environmental regulations and poor people and aren't really against war just as long as it doesn't cost the American Taxpayer a dime and the libertarian philosophy of objectivism is the dumbest piece of shit*
yeah lets discuss why marxist revolution isnt likely to happen in amerikka that should be a tough nut to crack
change you can believe in (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/obama-supports-extending-_n_288054.html)
(http://i26.tinypic.com/30u677q.jpg)
... no homoBy the way, is this "no homo" thing seriously a popular phrase? Because it seems like the kind of thing only people who are very insecure about sexuality themselves would say.
Those poor Polaks.:(
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/world/middleeast/26nuke.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=global-home&adxnnlx=1253905351-/scrEHZ8u+F8BlxYX0KMhwHey dude why are you posting old news articles from 2003???
what the fuuuck. this is some very serious news.
Tony Blair is in line to be proclaimed Europe’s first president within weeks if the Irish vote “yes” in today’s referendum.
Senior British sources have told The Times that President Sarkozy has decided that Mr Blair is the best candidate and that Angela Merkel has softened her opposition.
The former Prime Minister could be ushered into the European Union’s top post at a summit on October 29.
Ms Merkel, the German Chancellor, was opposed to Mr Blair because she believed that the post should go to a country that had adopted the euro but British sources said that she may now be “biddable” if Germany and France get plum posts in the new European Commission.
No really
if the greatest achievement of my generation would be burning down everything our forfathers have created and hanging the rich slimy motherfuckers that shaped this world to their every whim then I would be more than happy to hurl a few molotavs but the world doesn't work that way anymore. Men aren't moved by violence and bloodshed as much as words and policy and there are simply too many of us with different opinions and ideals to make a kind of revolutionary movement that would work. The problem isn't wanting to make a change, its the people that want to do it not being given a voice or instrument to do so. In those revolutions communication wasn't nearly on the level that it is now, people can't find and take up contradicting causes and beliefs like we do in this day and age and yet work together for a common goal for future when we can't even agree on FUCKING FREE HEALTH CARE?!!?!
Maybe the balance between information, critical thinking, and moral/philisophical belief will one day consolidate to something people can come together and work with. But until people learn how to think for themselves and stop absorbing all the bullshit thrown on them we will be mental preteens with our dicks in our hands not knowing how to use them yet continually jerking off into our own eyes.
This is the way the world is, people with splooge in their eyes, blinded and running into walls screaming nonsense at each other.
Members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee said their choice could be seen as an early vote of confidence in Obama intended to build global support for his policies. They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease American conflicts with Muslim nations and strengthen the U.S. role in combating climate change.
Aagot Valle, a lawmaker for the Socialist Left party who joined the committee this year, said she hoped the selection would be viewed as "support and a commitment for Obama."
"And I hope it will be an inspiration for all those that work with nuclear disarmament and disarmament," she told The Associated Press in a rare interview. Members of the Nobel peace committee usually speak only through its chairman.
oh wait they're POPPY FARMERS, that immediately makes them evil terrorists because everyone knows heroin is such a huge problem nowadays and them damn dirt farmers are the cause of it all
don't do the crime if you can't do the horrific burning of your only livelihood :fogetcool:
Full article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_nobel_peace)He really got it for not being Bush/a neocon/insert deplorable (to those pinko "Europeans") identity here.
Apparently he won it not so much for what he has done, but for what he's trying to do.
pretty sure the us military isn't specifically targeting afghan farmers. the reason the afghan farmers are so pissed off is because we're destroying and confiscating their poppy fields.
This should be what EVERY Democrat should sound like right now.
when a woman on fox news is telling you that your right wing views are TOO extreme, you need to really pay attention to thathahaha this is very true
I bet all of you have much better ideas
heh. what a clever ideathis guy fucking owns because he's straight up echoing a political line that resonates with Fox news network's primary demographic and the host is squirming between a rock and a hard place... should she nod and accept the line of a fear-mongering advocate for a racist police-state from some wrinkled white walking corpse in a suit and vindicate critics of Fox News or risk alienating her audience by appealing to liberal multicultural sensitivities????
stop all americans and other westerners abroad between the ages of 25-55 because they might be buying illegally obtained cultural heirlooms/antiques.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religionthx 4 being a pedantic faggot over a joke
thx 4 being a pedantic faggot over a jokehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic_faggot
Why don't they just use the full body x-ray scanners on all passengers?