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No, I'm reading a sad book knowing that it will make me sad, but not ONLY to feel sad. The enjoyment of the whole book experience is what I'm after, and the sadness is only an element of the book, not what I'm seeking.Why don't you read a book that doesn't contain the sadness element and only contains the other good elements? Presumably this would give you an even better experience since you're not enjoying feeling sad.
Nope.But you're reading a sad book, to make yourself feel sad, and gaining pleasure from that. That's classic masochism.
What if I knowingly read a sad book and cry during it?You wouldn't consider exposing yourself to materials that make you feel sad to be masochistic?
hey dom answer this please: is it masochistic to ride a rollercoaster?No this isn't anything like what I'm saying. First, riding rollercoasters, reading books etc, do not involve any pain, you are not willfully exposing yourself to any pain. The entire experience of these things is enjoyable. This is massively different to masochistic games that force you to fail repeatedly during the course of the game.
what about reading a book?
I mean why do all books have like all these PAGES OF INFORMATION when it's really about the conclusion of the story. is reading through those pages masochistic? why don't people just look up IT WAS HIS SLED on wikipedia instead of watching Citizen Kane?
your entire point is that playing games is somehow a PAINFUL AND AWFUL EXPERIENCE and you're not even arguing that it's THIS which the players enjoy (which WOULD make it masochistic) but that because they play to avoid that pain it is therefore instrumental to the game itself and therefore the reason for playing. this is a leap of logic so gigantic it makes the analogy I posted before look benign.Again, not my point at all. The failure events are so ingrained in the concept of the game and the process of playing the game, that the gratification is only possible because of the pain. The gratification is a consequence of the pain because that is the only way it can exist. In order to achieve gratification, the player is subjecting himself to pain.
the whole premise that anything other than THE GOAL or COMPLETION OF THE GAME is this awful chore that you have to go through is completely crazy. the reason why people enjoy playing difficult games is because it forces them to think and compete and test their ability to react to what they see on the screen. it's effectively about doing something which you know is within your reach, but requires your full attention to accomplish. it's intrinsically rewarding. the fact that you can LOSE at games and that you can endure hardship during the process is true but you basically conclude, for some reason, that this is THE BASIS FOR EVERYTHING. the reason why you can lose is because there would otherwise be no challenge, and thus the game simply wouldn't be fun. but yeah somehow to you this means that PEOPLE ENJOY LOSING.In Super Meat Boy, do you really think players achieve flow? Ever? These games are designed to be constantly out of reach of your skill level. You're never on the right hand side of the mental state graph. You're constantly on the left. Even when you finally beat a screen, you're immediately put on to the next screen, with more challenges that throw you right back.
and because losing is, for some reason, equal to pain, people who play games are therefore masochists.Losing evokes feelings of shame, humiliation, and worthlessness. To play games dedicated to making you feel these emotions is masochism!
hey dom answer this: if I go to the dentist and have him fix up that painful tooth, am I a masochist for feeling elated when I leave? does that mean I like the pain? if there was no pain, I wouldn't feel relieved because there would have been no reason for me to go there in the first place. does that mean the pain was the reason for why I'm feeling relieved?You never willingly subjected yourself to that pain, the pain was entirely out of your control. This isn't the same thing at all. Please stop making bad analogies.
Every definition of masochism I saw specifically said physical pain, not just pain. Just putting that out there.Look harder: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/masochism
Psychiatry . the condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering, physical pain, and humiliation.Suffering obviously encompasses mental suffering and humiliation is purely mental distress. It's absurd to claim that masochism is only about physical pain.
Can we not get into the definition of masochism? It's completely pointless because I think everyone knows what it means in this context.sure
Here this is the flaw in your entire argument, right there. Masochism is the enjoyment of pain itself. But rather, you're saying that players accept the fact that they have to endure some pain (I wouldn't call it that, but I digress) in order to complete the game. But it's not about enjoying the pain itself, is it?My argument also depends on the game being considered in its entirity - the entire gameplay process, which consists mainly of pain. The player is a masochist because the gratification would not come if there was no pain. The gratification is entirely dependent on the existence of pain, therefore the gratification is clearly a reaction: the player enjoys the pain.
Of course they are not literal masochists, but the dynamics of the player/game relationship are showing some prominent masochistic tendencies.
Not only that, but this is described as masochism, a very serious disorder that affects a very small part of the population. It's completely nuts to conclude that someone must be a masochist because they died in a game and then said "hey, this game is fun, I think I'll try again".
Can gaming be masochistic? Do you play games for the thrill of failure, or for the triumph of succeeding over a challenge? Do you get any buzz at all from dying in videogames? Does the rage that comes with throwing a control count as part of the buzz? What about sadism? Do you get any kind of release from inflicting virtual pain on your virtual enemies?
also mark you are so immature i hate youyoure making fun of vegetarians because People Are Meant To Kill And Eat Animals, Lol! Why Change? We're Carnivores Ha HA HA AH ahha FFor every burger you dont eat im going to eat TWO!!!!!!!!!!!! OWNED VEGETARIANS!!!
Haha thanks for that, dom. I actually did a little research on UK hip-hop/grime(?) and found some really good songs, but not any one consistently good artist.
By the way, is it a metaphorical cable or is it a physical cable? I really don't know
DUBAI RULER DISCUSSES IRAN AND IRAQ WITH SENATOR LIEBERMAN
Iraq: Any plan B?
------------------
3.(C) MbR restated the UAE's support for the US in the region,
noting "the UAE is the only country that is 100 percent with the
US." MbR said UAE support for the US effort remained firm, but
asked what is "plan B" should the current US approach not
stabilize Iraq. Senator Lieberman quoted the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff as saying "plan B is to make plan A work."
ACTION REQUEST: OVERCOMING GERMAN DOUBTS ON U.S.
DATA PRIVACY PRACTICES
Germany has become a difficult partner with regards to
security-related information sharing initiatives following
the September 27 national elections, which brought the FDP
into the governing coalition. The FDP sees themselves as
defenders of citizens' privacy rights and these views have
led the FDP to oppose many of Germany's post-9/11
counterterrorism legislative proposals (see reftels). At
times, the FDP's fixation on data privacy and protection
issues looks to have come at the expense of the party forming
responsible views on counterterrorism policy.
my mate has one of the google phones that is the same as the one in climbtree's post and he fucking loves it. i asked him whether he would get an iphone or that and he said google phone ANY day. software is better apparently and the keyboard is wayy useful. and (i'm not sure about this) anyone can make software for google phones but you cant on iphones (again, i'm not sure i havent checked this fact)the touch screen keyboard on the iphone isn't really a huge bother because it has excellent typo correction. I find I can type with a pretty good speed, probably faster than with a dinky hardware keyboard. You can only run approved apps on iPhone but trees basically everything you'd want in the app store for free anyway, if you really need something else you can just jailbreak. And finally you might not think it but design really does make a huge difference and the iPhone is without a doubt one of the best designed phones on the market.
plus it has a touch screen if ya want one anyway. and he doesn't care about the size coz its so awesome
I'd be a homophobe too if someone put their ass in my fucking face.well you probably are a homopobe already don't worry
