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posting for the cred but not for the rape jokes
sb?
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yeah, that's why i made the comparison. carlin was all about pushing those limits, sometimes rather successfully, sometimes not so much(as shown in the video). sometimes it was pretty cheap stuff, but the guy had a really strong presentation i think, an unusually intricate sense of rhythm for a stand-up comic. i more or less value that more than the actual content, most of the time. in any event, this doesn't really bother me. comedy is a rough business. it's an abstraction of reality, and sometimes that takes humorists to pretty dark places. it shouldn't really be a surprise when these guys wander this far, particularly when you're talking about comedians whose thing is to challenge convention and the banality of existence. peter cook is a good example here. a lot of people(myself included) have stood by the belief that he was the most gifted humorist of the 20th century, probably as responsible for the way humor has developed culturally in the english language as anybody. but he loses a lot of people when it comes to the derek and clive tapes, as they were as filthy as you can realistically get, yet in them you see some of the most outstanding examples of improv humor ever recorded, even if the personas they were playing were genuinely gross and offensive. i'd post some of the stuff i really like here, but if shep is being laughed out of the topic for some legitimately innocuous louis ck video, i'm not going to bother with something else that is going to make everyone's bileducts swell.


anyway, on that note, i can say with some degree of confidence that i regret absolutely none of the targ comedystuffs i ever posted here. even the stuff that wasn't very good, or the FIERCE NIGGAR stuff that could easily have been regarded as casual racism(even though my intent was literally the opposite), or really anything else that could have been considered offensive to somebody. i'm sure if i looked back at it i'd regard some[most?] of it as pretty juvenile and not very funny, but i'm not really aware of any tangible bad that ever came from it. apart from the occasional YOU SHOULDNT DO THIS ITS AGAINST THE RULES, it was always pretty clear i was making a joke, and i never got any complaints of my being offensive. hell, if anything, i stand by the whole targ thing i helped perpetuate as something that was definitely good for the people involved, probably the only thing i can really say about anything i've ever done in my life. all the targ guys turned into neat people, and it was fun helping cultivate that abstract, creative side of them, even if it was kinda small and inconsequential in most ways. but there was always that lingering targ thing, that odd abstraction of reality from time to time that most people don't have, and i guess the narcissistic part of me feels like i helped put that there, like this shit we did together taught them as much as it taught me.

embracing the madness. loving the madness. eating the madness. rong paul 08.

man I love you hundley.
You're so eloquent, whereas I stumble in the process (something about the forum format makes me write exceptionally bad) of trying to explain myself.

I share that same spirit. That targ spirit. That part that you wrote speaks to me very truly, and I know it did to Diggity Dawg too. Who I miss. Fuck, where is he. (I understood that the intent of FIERCE NIGGAR was the opposite as well.)

in case you care, targ still is part of my life. I dont manifest it much, but it has been incepted into my DNA
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You said very clearly that it's okay to still find slurs funny. Please explain why rather than claiming you are being misunderstood with no explanation. Also you assume that if people are offended this automatically means they are boring and too politically correct. Please explain.

p.s: it's pretty fair to tell you to grow up after you justify the use of the word faggot and try to define for others whether it is hurtful. understand that it is not your place to define for others how they should feel when as a non-minority you have absolutely no experience. That's like being non-musical and telling a guitarist that trying to learn a song isn't hard. It's ridiculous because you would have no idea. This is the same thing, you are an outsider looking in.

ok, let's see. You're giving me work eh, afura! So interested in Shepperd POV, eh!

You said very clearly that it's okay to still find slurs funny. Please explain why
Depending on the context, the manner it is used, and when it targets no subject in particular (by that I mean to 'Joe' or 'Ellen' or 'Obama'), it can be funny. Louis CK is an example. I find it funny. WHY??? Because it is dangerous, and has the taboo effect of 'ooohh you didnt use that word didn't you?'. Because it tickles that nerve. And like Louis CK, they are funny sounding words. At least they are personally.
Would I use these words in RL? No, because I understand the faux-pas. But it's like a secret from my teen years. We all have them.
And the way it was used in GW back then was mostly abstract. At least it was for me (which is why I was entertained by it, maybe why I'm misunderstood.)
Also you assume that if people are offended this automatically means they are boring and too politically correct. Please explain.
Inability to laugh at something that is polemic or hurting. Fear/Restriction of humour so that it's not offensive to anyone. We sometimes laugh at things that we even know that are wrong. We laugh when someone trips over and falls and gets hurt, and then we can find ourselves laughing uncontrollably and at the same time feel bad and think 'man, I shouldn't be laughing at this, but it's so funny!'. We laugh at pranks.
Michael Richards' (kramer) 'he's a nigger!!' fiasco is BAD. But the way Louis CK uses the word is funny. Context. Way it is used. etc.

p.s: it's pretty fair to tell you to grow up after you justify the use of the word faggot and try to define for others whether it is hurtful.
Aha, but I didn't do that. What I told others was not to shun GW's past humour as the worse bit of GW history.

Please quit pretending that you care about this or me or that you're actually trying to help anything when I have repeatedly told you I'm not interested.  I don't remember asking you "Hey Shepperd, as a queer woman where should I live?"  I don't want your advice on this, shut the frig up dude, stop pretending to be the helpful savior after what you've already put into this thread.


Also thanks for pretending like I can just move away from homophobia and sexism as if it's not gonna happen pretty much everywhere.  Gosh, why didn't I ever think of that?
lol, helpful savior. Sorry for being nice, it came pretension-free.
Why can't you just cheer up about the fact that I spent the whole thread insisting that it's funny to belittle you via slurs?
belittle me? Me in particular? Yeah that wouldn't be nice. But if the discussion was about slurs about my ethnic minority (greaseball/greaser), it could be funny depending on the intent!!
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When I said you I meant literally you by the way, it's better for YOU because you can ignore it, I can't ignore it because it's happening to me.  Stop pretending like you're doing me a favor when you clearly don't give a shit anyway, I know a hell of a lot more about Life As A Queer Lady than you, I don't need you telling me where the better places to live are.

But whatever, i'm through with this, you've spent this whole topic proving that you've never moved past old GW where we were all teenagers who giggled at slurs because we weren't fully developed people yet.  Grow up and try us again then.
of course, if it's happening, then you should perhaps move to a better environment, which is what I'd say is good to consider. And I talk from my own personal experience from travelling and discovering how different places have different profiles. For instance, Spain has a pretty macho culture, but Barcelona is exceptionally gay-friendly.

also, it's a shame that you decide to see it all in such a negative light. Aside the fact that I developed enormously as a homo sapien ever since (what with travelling around the world, completing BA and MA, relationships, self-initiated social work abroad and volunteering locally, other jobs.. etc (all stuff that I bet we all did to some extent)), it's kinda lame of your part to be patronising and say 'grow up' because we disagree on certain things.
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shepperd you should be pretty clear that nobody thinks you are enlightened here. what you're saying is just common bull that guys say. you don't know what is up and you don't want to know. you aren't being misunderstood, you just don't really get it. maybe you could but you'd need to drop this pretentious bullshit first.

what are you talking about jamicus. why do you think I think I'm enlightened???

ps: I'm a guy, right?
btw, yeah, I'm misunderstood. Who are you to say otherwise
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Yes, some places are better than others.  That doesn't mean my problems are over.  It just means it's easier for you to pretend like they are, because you see them less that way.
Correct. Which is better. And you find more like-minded people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5ZTL0saZdE
Homos
by the Frogs
album: It's only right and natural
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And again, it's not my job to "laugh off" slurs, I'm not the one to blame for slurs.  You're in here defending the use of them for the sake of "humor", don't tell me I'm supposed to just laugh them off when you yourself can't even bring yourself to stop finding them just so dang hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwxggCkzjKA

I'm so sorry that I'm white
from the album Racially Yours
by The Frogs
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Yeah it's not like you were in this topic defending slurs, let me just take life advice from you on what I should do to feel safer.  Spoiler: I'd still have something to worry about in all of those places.  The problem isn't Kentucky.
the big cities and uni cities welcome diversity much more than smaller towns with a more conservative culture
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where is over here?
messiland
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yeah you should move to San Francisco or Brighton... or over here if you want, we're liberal as fuck and gay marriage is legal.

USA conservatives are very difficult people. Those people just don't have the empathy to accept those who are different to them.
Which is different to those who are more libertarian like myself, are more prone to laugh off at labels and slurs
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I feel like Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm

terminally misunderstood
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Yeah I sure am arguing with this because I love arguing, not because slurs are a part of my life I have to actually deal with on a regular basis.  Unlike you, I actually have real-life investments in this area, which is why I argue it so hard.  I don't have the privilege of not caring about it.


e: Your biggest problem throughout this whole thing is that you think that your life experiences are the same as everyone else's, so you can't see how any of this actually matters to others.

That's cool Vellfire. Care to tell me what kind of real life investment you are involved in? I'm genuinely interested.

You are also correct to say that my life experiences aren't the same as, say, yours.
I think that's pretty obvious.
But it's a good point. Which might be why I can laugh at Louis CK and you hate it because you think he's being disrespectful and un-empathetic to the minorities involved.


also Hundley, I think I learnt the word faggit from you... :^P
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Well, it does seem like we go through one of these arguments about every other time a old face shows up.
Really? That's great to know!
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It's fun for you because it's just a thought exercise on your end.
it's fun for you too, because it's your chance to disagree with someone about something, apparently
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So you posted it to make the specific point of how not funny it was?

Great line of thinking. I enjoy watching how well that is working out for you.
eh? you've got it wrong. It's the other way round.
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why try to argue with people then? if you choose to be nostalgic about it instead of wanting to learn from it then that's fine, but i don't get why you can't respect where other people are coming from. maybe instead of telling everyone else they're too uptight and then try to turn a total non-issue into a debate, you could've just walked away from this and avoided the headache. there's no reason why your thoughts about the community's past can't coexist with how everyone else feels.
heh, it's not a headache.. it's fun to argue about something, specially something we all have in common, which is GW's past
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But um you just posted a ton of content and a video justifying why using slurs is ok? Also you just defined for other people that it is all in their mind.
If you go back to the context of the original post where I posted the video, you'll see I was using Louis CK as an exception




(every time I read the tab of this page it says 'CLICK HE...' and I immediately think of CLICK HERE FOR MORE DILDO)
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I have fond memories and a lot of us do. but that doesn't mean we werent little turds. You were saying that humor was totally fine and that was why people got riled up because duh saying nigger even ironicially wasn't cool?
It's like I can emphasise with the mischief of the time. I can still laugh and chuckle at all those terrible things we did. I don't start weighting them on some morality index. Sure, wouldn't do it nowadays, but I wouldn't shun it either.
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"I find this joke about how cool it is to say faggot, nigger and cunt hilarious!"

~ forums poster shepperd who isn't gay, black or a woman, so has no idea how these slurs feel

Wow sure am glad you're the one who gets to decide that it's Officially Funny, everyone!  Glad you're the gatekeeper of what's funny and that if we don't agree, we're uptight!


e: I mean seriously how dense can you be that you're saying "well I don't find it offensive!!!"  Of course you fucking don't, why not actually look at people who those slurs target instead of YOU.  Why do you think you're the one who decides this for everyone else?
it's called ability to laugh about oneself. A woman/gay/black with a sense of humour and relaxed perception of society can have a laugh with that routine, because it addresses how ridiculous we are about taboo words and slurs. It's all in the mind
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shepperd I don't know why you care so much as to obviously rile people up, though. I know why everyone cares, because this is serious stuff that they deal with in their everyday lives, and it's really annoying to see yet another guy* bringing this stuff up like it's a revolutionary subject no one here has ever thought about before. I guess this is a fun exercise for you, and that's what irritates me. if you're just ignorant, fine, but if you know what you're doing and are just trying to upset people about significant parts of their lives, that's kind of despicable, don't you think?

I dunno man, I'm talking about our common past and I'm kinda disappointed most don't have fond memories of the humour at the time, whereas I do, although I can understand why it couldn't be replicated nowadays