News Missing link found??? (Read 4910 times)

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You... you can't know for sure...
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lol climbtree, to really put your example into context it would be more like we opened 50 drawers and found socks, then one drawer was missing, but then it continues for 100 more of socks, what on earth would posess you to think it was a draw full of t-shirts?

this is actually to really take it out of context completely. i think you're addressing the first analogy i used which wasn't about evolution (which i said) but the logic behind a sound scientific theory. if the theory of evolution has no way of being disproven, it's as logically sound as the flying spaghetti monster. if i said a tiny hippo whose presence cannot be measured was responsible for large changes in DNA there's no way to prove me wrong and offering more and more examples of large changes in DNA doesn't prove me right. this is the same logic as evolution.

yep although I think you're still being captious about evolution in general.

i'm not splitting hairs, this is the philosophy that underlies science! this is pretty major especially when the criticism most evolutionists lay against religion is that there's no proof or logical existence of god, when the logical of evolution uses a the same arguments for proof.

That would be true if the theory of evolution held that "fossils of every epoch exist somewhere". It doesn't. It's a theory that seeks to provide a rational explanation for an observation; namely, that genetic information of an organism can change per generation. Even if we'd never find even a single fossil from here on, we'd already have seen enough evidence of that fact by now to know both micro- and macroevolution are true. The theory is so solid that it does not stand or fall based on finding a random new creature that we didn't know existed.

i don't know what part you're talking about, the first part was a mirror of MAYBE GOD PUT DINOSAURS THERE TO TEST OUR FAITH, it was a joke mostly but the asdflkjhasdflkjhasdf was firm.
no, we don't already have enough evidence to know that is is true, this is completely unscientific and what you're talking about is faith. as far as i'm aware evolution hasn't been proven empirically (pretty sure if it was it would've been bigger news than this), everything is post hoc. a fossil is found, looks kinda like a cat with horns. probably the predecessor of the cat but the horns stopped it from going through cat doors, so it died. this is straight up stupid and you can use it for anything.
the modern day car evolved from the horse. as the horse's environment changed from dirt tracks to roads, horses with wheel mutations had an advantage in breeding. horses still on dirt tracks remained unchanged, while those on the roads became more and more car like.


Serious Question: As a Christian Climbtree what is your opinion on this stuff? Like do you think your messiah made evolution or do you think it is just a theory or what? Like what do you think about no Dinosaurs in the bible and the earth only being made 2000 years ago etc? I don't really know any Christians so your probably the only one I can ask...

my personal belief is that everything in the bible is true, we might just not know how or why yet. we're like 5 year olds reading a physics text book, some of it might make sense and other stuff might go against what we know, like, there's obviously a centrifugal force so this disproves the text book kinda thing. so i don't really have a firm take on anything other than THE LORD IS OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE and i tend to cringe when christians are passionate with judgement because of the bible. GOD IS LOVE, KILL ABORTIONISTS. in terms of condemnation etc i take the view that if you lead someone to god then they'll sort themselves out, and you're not going to do this throwing rocks at them. this is besides the point though, i speculate and i've thought about the possibility of adam and eve living for millions of years before eating of the tree of knowledge but there's a lot about the age of the universe and about the nature/existence of dinosaurs that i just don't trust but that's just me!

evolution is dumb as heck for logical reasons though and it's disgusting when put into practice. black people are closer to monkeys because they're darker, women didn't need critical reasoning to nurture children and gather berries, jews are tainting our superior aryan blood etc.
Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 06:19:04 pm by climbtree
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as far as i'm aware evolution hasn't been proven empirically
This is a mindblowing statement to make.

This is also why you rejected the part of my post that you quoted: you have a flawed idea of how this branch of science works. This isn't like mathematics, you know. Empirical claims cannot ever be absolutely proven. Not evolution, not gravity, not even the idea that we exist at all has ever been proven, even though they are all important scientific facts.

It's difficult to figure out how to make you understand this since you literally have me wondering how to best explain the fundamental philosophy behind the natural sciences.
Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:27:03 am by Dada
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evolution is dumb as heck for logical reasons though and it's disgusting when put into practice. black people are closer to monkeys because they're darker, women didn't need critical reasoning to nurture children and gather berries, jews are tainting our superior aryan blood etc.
post this in 10 of ur youtube favorites and richard dawkins' head will explode
Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:53:59 am by Dada
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aahhahaha climbtree you don't understand evolution at all
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evolution is dumb as heck for logical reasons though and it's disgusting when put into practice. black people are closer to monkeys because they're darker, women didn't need critical reasoning to nurture children and gather berries, jews are tainting our superior aryan blood etc.

you apparently don't know how to distinguish eugenics/social darwinism and evolution????

also lollin because a lot of christian shit is equally, if not more disgusting than this when put into practice
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... Evolution is dumb as heck for logical reasons though

The Bible is dumb as heck for logical reasons though.

It does however function as good plot elements in hollywood movies.
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Why do priests fuck a little boy? Is this genetic or learned behaviour?
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Why do priests fuck a little boy? Is this genetic or learned behaviour?

Nature or.. Nurture?
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This has probably been stated a million times before but THE MISSIN LINK is a pretty stupid concept anyhow when you can see huge macro trends in evolution already.


That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
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This is a mindblowing statement to make.

This is also why you rejected the part of my post that you quoted: you have a flawed idea of how this branch of science works. This isn't like mathematics, you know. Empirical claims cannot ever be absolutely proven. Not evolution, not gravity, not even the idea that we exist at all has ever been proven, even though they are all important scientific facts.

It's difficult to figure out how to make you understand this since you literally have me wondering how to best explain the fundamental philosophy behind the natural sciences.

you stupid dork this was exactly my point, here's some reading comprehension it came right after this:
no, we don't already have enough evidence to know that is is true, this is completely unscientific and what you're talking about is faith.

it was in response to you, you said we already have enough evidence to know that it is true. THAT is the same mindblowing statement except yours wasn't sarcastic

The Bible is dumb as heck for logical reasons though.

i don't understand this, i made no pretense to belief in the bible or god being logically valid, in fact i even said creationism used the same type of logic as evolution and neither are scientific
evolution is dumb as heck as a theory for logical reasons, like freudian theory. i don't think either are fundamentally stupid ideas, they're both pretty clever, but they're undefendable as theories because there's no way of proving them wrong. this is a bad example though because you can make predictions based on freudian theory.

you apparently don't know how to distinguish eugenics/social darwinism and evolution????

also lollin because a lot of christian shit is equally, if not more disgusting than this when put into practice

apparently you don't understand what a theory is for???? what is the good of the theory of evolution? natural selection is a genetic tautology. evolution isn't used as a predictor it's used as an explanatory model, i thought this was pretty clear. asians are good at math, this is likely because their ancestors who could add and divide quickly could swindle goods at a higher price. being more wealthy, their chances of reproduction were higher. this is contrary to the findings in africa, where the high degree of sharing led to those who were better at athletic activities such as running and hunting to breed better.
THIS IS ALL EVOLUTIONARY SCIENCE DOES. that christian stuff allows worse (not too sure how worse you can get but ok) ignores the fact that it allows much better.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact


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aahhahaha climbtree you don't understand evolution at all
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i know gw has a tendency to unfairly dismiss shit but man climbtree you are definitely climbing from "ignorant but possibly salvageable" to "babby found a sandbox some adult come in and tell him how to play" so instead interesting anecdote.

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asians are good at math, this is likely because their ancestors who could add and divide quickly could swindle goods at a higher price.

asians in asia are actually good at math because they dont do numbers like we do. the average five year old in any english speaking country must struggle with the concept of eleven being a ten and a one, and that entire subset. a twenty is also two tens. in the chinese numerical system, not only is every number 0-9 single syllable (which means they actually have like a slight edge on every kid that learns 0-9 here because it's easier to memorize their seven but their number system is actually "two tens" instead of twenty, meaning they add faster so every chinese kid starts out with that advantage that few other nations seem to pass.

INTERESTING POSSIBLY NOT LEGIT FACT IN A TOPIC THATS GETTING STUPID.
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You are such a disgusting idiot.

you stupid dork this was exactly my point, here's some reading comprehension it came right after this:
no, we don't already have enough evidence to know that is is true, this is completely unscientific and what you're talking about is faith.
You haven't been paying attention in biology class. I'm not sure if you realize this, but if you follow Ryan's link you'll find that it's both an observation and a theory that explains that observation.

You wanna know why I didn't answer whether evolution was "proven" or not? Because there's no such thing as a definitive proof for any empirical claim. This is one of the fundamental aspects of the natural sciences. Evolution has been validated, however, time and again, both by actual observations in nature as well as fossil records. We've even got tens of thousands of frozen bacteria cultures that at some point spontaneously developed the ability to metabolize citrate. The existence of genomic mutation is not "just some theory". There's no sane biologist alive today that doesn't acknowledge at least the reality of microevolution.

what is the good of the theory of evolution? natural selection is a genetic tautology. evolution isn't used as a predictor it's used as an explanatory model, i thought this was pretty clear. asians are good at math, this is likely because their ancestors who could add and divide quickly could swindle goods at a higher price. being more wealthy, their chances of reproduction were higher. this is contrary to the findings in africa, where the high degree of sharing led to those who were better at athletic activities such as running and hunting to breed better.
THIS IS ALL EVOLUTIONARY SCIENCE DOES.
I'll repeat: you are a disgusting idiot. Disgusting because you're trying to make it seem like this is somehow what everybody who recognizes evolution believes. I cannot for the life of me figure out why you're trying to associate evolution with this crap.

Seriously, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS. Do us all a favor and PLEASE go read some articles on Wikipedia before you post any more of this nonsense.
Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 08:08:37 pm by Dada
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i know gw has a tendency to unfairly dismiss shit but man climbtree you are definitely climbing from "ignorant but possibly salvageable" to "babby found a sandbox some adult come in and tell him how to play" so instead interesting anecdote.
maybe you should sit in the corner and wait for a scientist to tell you what to believe because this:

in your sock example instead make it a bunch of fucking fossils we've been finding since the 1800s and that no one really doubts anymore at all
is closer to child in a sandbox. "everyone believes it, it's always been like this" - as if that gives it anymore truth.

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asians in asia are actually good at math because

the example was to show how evolutiony theory is used to support stereotypes and racism, it purposefully wasn't factual

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You are such a disgusting idiot.

i'm disgusting because i'm gay? i suppose homosexuality is an evolutionary weakness and so you've adapted to hate homosexuals to ensure the survival of the species. why don't you post another image macro?

You are such a disgusting idiot.
You haven't been paying attention in biology class. I'm not sure if you realize this, but if you follow Ryan's link you'll find that it's both an observation and a theory that explains that observation.

HI HAVE YOU READ WHAT I HAVE SAID AT ALL. this all stemmed from me asking this:
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what? as far as i'm aware missing link stuff is the only thing that keeps evolution a scientific theory, otherwise it's completely post-hoc and unfalsifiable. or do you think rationally we should accept evolution as truth without question?
so your answer is yes? could have saved us all a bunch of time, because you haven't addressed the other two until now with the citrate thing


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You wanna know why I didn't answer whether evolution was "proven" or not? Because there's no such thing as a definitive proof for any empirical claim. This is one of the fundamental aspects of the natural sciences. Evolution has been validated, however, time and again, both by actual observations in nature as well as fossil records. We've even got tens of thousands of frozen bacteria cultures that at some point spontaneously developed the ability to metabolize citrate. The existence of genomic mutation is not "just some theory". There's no sane biologist alive today that doesn't acknowledge at least the reality of microevolution.
I'll repeat: you are a disgusting idiot. Disgusting because you're trying to make it seem like this is somehow what everybody who recognizes evolution believes. I cannot for the life of me figure out why you're trying to associate evolution with this crap.

Seriously, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS. Do us all a favor and PLEASE go read some articles on Wikipedia before you post any more of this nonsense.
looks like you don't understand the difference between genetics and evolution, evolution is about additive successive changes not gene mutation in general, it relies on it. do you even understand what i'm criticising and why MORE PEOPLE and MORE WIKIPEDIA PAGES about it don't strengthen it? you don't seem to understand anything, evolution posits that all biology is based on adaptation, so yeah if you 'believe' in evolution you justify, support, and use that sort of reasoning
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the example was to show how evolutiony theory is used to support stereotypes and racism, it purposefully wasn't factual
YOU are the only one purporting this. Your entire argument for why evolution is evil is because of some CRAP YOU MADE UP about it being a reason to engender racial supremacy.

I really want to say I'm permanently done with you and this topic, but the stuff you've posted so far is so horrifyingly deranged I'll probably end up coming back tomorrow morning.
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no i gave an example of how evolution can be used to explain absolute bullshit. i don't know if you honestly can't comprehend arguments or whether you're doing this rhetorically.
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this is actually to really take it out of context completely. i think you're addressing the first analogy i used which wasn't about evolution (which i said) but the logic behind a sound scientific theory. if the theory of evolution has no way of being disproved, it's as logically sound as the flying spaghetti monster.

Ughhh...No, evolution is not akin to a baseless proposition so you're creating a fallacious analogy here. Pastafarianism(sp?) was conceived on the principle that a designer could be fulfilled by the role of a PASTA MONSTER for satirical reasons in an intelligent design court case. The theory of evolution has EVIDENCE backing it up so it's silly to assert that it's a tantamount to any idea made on a whim ( there's a magical genie living in my closet, BTW.)

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if i said a tiny hippo whose presence cannot be measured was responsible for large changes in DNA there's no way to prove me wrong and offering more and more examples of large changes in DNA doesn't prove me right. this is the same logic as evolution.
This isn't the same logic as evolution. For one you have the motive to counter evolution by presenting this silly argument but aside from that you have no justification for your claim whatsoever.

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i'm not splitting hairs, this is the philosophy that underlies science! this is pretty major especially when the criticism most evolutionists lay against religion is that there's no proof or logical existence of god, when the logical of evolution uses a the same arguments for proof. 
Evolutionist is kind of a disgusting word to label to those who believe evolution is the most valid explanation available (so far it really is, just consider the evidence here) It's not like you're a gravitationist. And on another not, evolution and existence of a god (im Atheist whether or not this is pertinent) are not mutually exclusive...i'm pretty sure the roman catholic church accepts evolution as valid, as an example. A god, in no way has actually been observed and therefore is not science like evolution is...there's no basis to claim he's real and relying on faith is fine for those who choose to believe but in no way is faith a good means of discerning truth from fiction.

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as far as i'm aware evolution hasn't been proven empirically (pretty sure if it was it would've been bigger news than this)
I'm not really sure if there is empirical evidence however I do believe microevolution( the distinction between micro and macro is nil it's all evolution anyhow)
has been observed in fairly recent times.

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everything is post hoc. a fossil is found, looks kinda like a cat with horns. probably the predecessor of the cat but the horns stopped it from going through cat doors, so it died. this is straight up stupid and you can use it for anything.
This IS stupid but it's not the natural selection aspect, it's the fact that the example uses cat doors. Nice try, though.

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my personal belief is that everything in the bible is true, we might just not know how or why yet. we're like 5 year olds reading a physics text book, some of it might make sense and other stuff might go against what we know
So you assert that, despite the scientific and technological advancements we've made, that we're lacking knowledge that people did thousands of years ago? I'm no biblical scholar but I suppose that a lot of what's in the bible (primarily old testament) is supposed to be read metaphorically not literally (get over it, the world wasn't created 6000 years ago nor did an old man gather every species onto a boat.)

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evolution is dumb as heck for logical reasons though and it's disgusting when put into practice. black people are closer to monkeys because they're darker, women didn't need critical reasoning to nurture children and gather berries, jews are tainting our superior aryan blood etc.
What's so logical about denouncing a valid scientific theory as silly just because you can make twist it to sound that way? Proponents of evolution don't believe it just because they just want to. There's a good reason that one claim is chosen over another...and science isn't really biased like you may think. Any proposition that explains our natural reality is scrutinized by the scientific method, and the process of evolution and natural selection is not exempted from this case (neither is the assertion that a god created all life in it's current form.) This is why one claim is denounced as silly pseudo science or otherwise and another merits a place in the explanation of our natural world. Science works, folks, it doesn't favor evolution over divine guidance for some random reason.
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maybe you should sit in the corner and wait for a scientist to tell you what to believe because this:

i'd rather put my faith in the scientific method than a 3,000 year old jewish fairytale.

basically in this thread we've had climbtree show his blatant lack of knowledge on evolution and equate it with just about every stereotypical smear and misunderstanding of evolution in the past 150 years. congratulations climbtree, you're dumb as hell.