Rap music, though fairly young, is art.

Video games are not.

Explain your reasoning.  Explain why video games cannot be art--we all know a lot of them aren't but explain why they CANNOT be, after all there are a lot of games that essentially ARE just choose your own adventure movies, those count as video games so explain the fine line that makes movies art and video games incapable of being art.  You keep bringing this up and you've never (as far as I know) explained why.  Just because most games are very very unartistic doesn't mean that VIDEO GAMES MAY NEVER BE ART EVER.  So explain yourself!  Give me some reasons!

Velfarre is right. For fuck sake Psy, Les Cahiers du Cinéma had a special number in 2002 dedicated to video games saying it had the potential to be a great art.

PAX is really gay because it floods the city and my favorite bars with complete faggots. Combine that with the hundreds(thousands?) of people from fuckin' Louisiana for the LSU vs UW game drinking themselves retarded all over the streets and you've got two great reasons to stay home for the evenings.


also: who the fuck really cares what someone thinks qualifies people as "gamers"? I think it's pretty self-evident that a gamer is one who plays games be it casual or "hardcore" and the fact that this person felt that he needed to make his feelings known on the issue kinda makes him a dipshit in the first place. 

You got the definition of art wrong.

The definition of art is the product of something that can't be defined. If art could be defined, then people wouldn't disagree and make such a fucking fit over what qualifies (and more importantly does not qualify) as "art" all the time.

In order for fine art forms (such as rap music) to be preserved, it must never have a consistent definition tied to it.

If ripped up pieces of paper can be in the MoMA, video games can be art sometimes.

yeah I thought maybe my argument was missing something. I think the real problem is that it's difficult to make a case for game design and gameplay to be considered an artform. if you go by the logic that it's an artform then you would have to consider any form of gaming and game design (including the design of children's toys) to be considered art as well. the problem may also be that games are specifically designed to be mass produced consumer products. while films and music also get the same treatment they at least have theatres and concerts where you can appreciate the artform without it having to be a product that you buy.

I think you could probably make a serious case for indie games to be considered art but commercial games are just too commercial.

also it's not that art ceases to be art if it's a product that's a combination of different artforms. films are also comprised of writing and visual arts and music as well. the key difference is that films also have a unique creative element to them (cinematography) and aren't specifically made to be consumer products. the problem with gaming is that its unique form of creation that it introduces (gamedesign) is difficult to consider as art because it's essentially just computer programming (and I don't know too many people who would consider computer programming an artform) and also, as I said earlier, games are specifically made to be mass produced consumer products.

yes but even though it adds in a non-artistic feature, that doesn't mean that on the whole the thing isn't art.  also the massproduced thing doesn't really mean much since a lot of films and paintings and such are that way too!  your argument just narrows down the field of art in general, it doesn't rule out video games as a possible form of art.  which i can definitely see, like i said not all video games are art by any means, but psyburn's argument is that video games can't be art and are never art and that's just not true at all

also if computer programming changed whether or not things were art then digital art could not exist and i do not think that is a road we should go down

but couldn't you say that computer programming is also a tool used to create games?  idk you mentioned indie games so i think either way it's pretty much been determined that video games in general can indeed be art

also arcades aren't a thing of the past in japan, they're still doing v. good so i would say that that argument doesn't work either, you can't really say that video games are just art in japan, no matter what your definition of art i don't think anyone defines it geographically

Hey guys, let's pin a definition to art when it's completely subjective.

"The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of a service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art." ~ Hideo Kojima

"The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of a service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art." ~ Hideo Kojima

Man I'm sorry but you are a dense piece of fuck. Art is recognized as being the products of human creativity... stop trying to shove your bullshit interpretation of something as open ended as "art" down our throats.

Seriously. A lot of thought goes into the design of a video game... how the player will react at certain points, how to challenge the player, the art direction, the navigation and control scheme. Video games are just another way to communicate ideas and expressions.

If that's something Kojima has actually said, then it's just more proof that he's a no-talent moron. Mass appeal is what all mainstream media strive to achieve.

just because one could argue that anything could be considered an art doesn't mean that one should. the type of people that say things like this are also the type of people that believe a shit-stained piece of toilet paper can also be considered art. you can believe this all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it will cheapen all other art in your eyes.

If someone having a different idea of art from you cheapens all other art in your eyes, then that is a personal issue. Anything can be considered art, but not everyone considers the same things as art, hence it is subjective.

also with your logic I could just as easily make the case that arguing about the standards and definitions of art can also be considered a form of art and your attempt at trying to silence me makes you a hypocrite since you're indeed applying your own standard to what is art.

Well actually, I do consider the word "art" to be artistic itself because of how different the interpretations are of it. I'm not trying to silence you, I'm just saying that applying your own definition or standard of art as some sort of universal definition or standard is silly. I think you're being a little too defensive.

action figures = sculptures

i don't see any reason why not