well, up until recently my attitude towards people who are stupid is to kind of just laugh at them. i'm not talking about a person who tries to understand something and doesn't really get it, i'm talking about the assholes who don't care or can't be bothered to try. it always seemed maybe a bit cruel, but i thought well they'll never see/hear me anyway or if they do, good, because maybe it'll make them re-think the things i think they have wrong.

that's probably a terrible way to be. i'm trying to change it. well, i have i think. it's not difficult to change something like this when you realize it makes you a big asshole yourself. i was probably just chasing a feeling of superiority, or of being in the club when these idiots - these ugly, dumb idiots - weren't in the club. i don't even know what club i was talking about.

another attraction to that kind of attitude might have been just opting out of these kind of confrontations by feigning detatchment. you know, instead of having to actually make my argument to this person, risk my ineptitude in communicating making me look bad, or just my plain lack of knowledge making me look bad, i would sit there and in my head think ' wow. heh, what a douche i've got here. i'm so making a youtube about this...heh heh heh'.

so if i decide not to brush these things off like that. when i hear something say something stupid like 'tucker max is awesome', or whatever, when do i start talking? is it at 'tucker max is awesome' or is that still too stupid to deal with? i'm trying to get a grip on where these kinds of things start to matter. comments that are probably produced out of casual racism but possible to take another way? how about when someone says 'these women drivers?'

i don't want to just stroke my ego here. if i don't say something, what's the point in having the opinion at all?

anyway i'm interested to hear your opinions and experiences with this kind of thing.

i don't have any friends these days really so i don't have that problem. i haven't really made any new friends mostly because i don't really want to dive into a whole new social network filled with people i am only using to stop myself from feeling like a lonely loser but secretly hate half of the time.

and yeah i just thought i'd give this a go by having a shot at calling out some guys on facebook who were making dumb jokes (like i've seen them do over and over), and the thing has pretty much turned out like them just telling me to stop being such an uptight little pussy or whatever. it's a bit exhausting, frustrating and depressing and i've only been typing onto a dumb site so i don't know.

i'm so sure most of this is me not getting my point across in the best way. i'm probably being condescending, which is an easy thing to be when you think you are talking to a dumb prick. there really isn't much satisfaction here, but there is even less in passing up on interaction with ignorance every time you see it. it's easier, you forget about it quicker, but every time it's brought to attention there is a sharp sting of 'i'm just another coward'.

impersonal digi-places like Facebook, however..

i was just feeling all hot-headed and probably bored. i know that if i was to be serious about this kind of thing, the internet has almost nothing to do with it.

Maybe you are setting your standards too high, perhaps falling victim to some black and white thinking. Ok, that sounds textbook but I went through a B&W thinking phase where I didn't find a great deal funny or get on with people very well and it is strange to think of the way my brain reacted to things then. If people make causual racist, sexist or homophobic jokes the point of the joke is that racism, sexism and homophobia are so ridiculous that it's obviously a lighthearted parody of stupid people and the things they say. If you meet someone who is genuinely any of these things why is it even your concern? Just ignore them! They aren't worth the thought.

You should join a club or society or something to do with your interests and meet some people who help restore some of your faith in the human race. I was surrounded by rich, condescending pricks for 2 years until I changed university and that change of scene did so much for me.

But yeah, I am pretty sure you consider me to be a colossal idiot so continue...

it's funny you should say that ed because a couple weeks ago jamie made a comment about your sense of humor and it seems to have had some impact. or maybe not I dunno

I can laugh unless it's someone I kinda like then it just makes me feel bad. I'm fine with this, I guess I've always hoped I would no longer have to deal with these people on a daily basis before I'd get fed up.

I have a racist friend and I do tell him he's stupid but the only reason I'm friends with him is because we've known each other forever

it's funny you should say that ed because a couple weeks ago jamie made a comment about your sense of humor and it seems to have had some impact. or maybe not I dunno

As long as he understands I'm not genuinely trying to offend people if I say stupid things because I'm not I'm just being flippant.

i fantasize about moving to a snowy town somewhere, getting a small cabin up a hill and just shutting my frigging self in with one of those bar locks on the door. wouldn't that be nice?

it never really feels good to get into arguments, though, for either side. because even if my intentions start out good, i don't think i've ever really avoided into going after the WIN at some point in an argument. i think the amount of unnecessary swearing and hyperbole is directly proportional to this desire's growth. maybe the right way to go about it is just softly - 'hey, pal, i don't like to hear things like that. i think that's a pretty crappy thing to say, ya know, pal? come on buddy.'...just real soft, prodding. not patronizing, just making that whole thing go nice and smooth for everyone. cos it can't ever be about winning the argument, or i am just being an ugly little twerp. i'll figure it out one day...

As long as he understands I'm not genuinely trying to offend people if I say stupid things because I'm not I'm just being flippant.

honestly, i was half drunk when i made that post. i was gonna apologise but i thought i would leave it because while it was mean and probably too harsh (i don't remember what i said other than comparing you to atari which...ouch......ouch), i do remember you being pretty annoying in whatever topic it was. anyway i'm trying not to post drunk anymore, sorry i got a little bit of that mess on you, at least.

usually a pause and a look works better than a monologue

i love it when you write a post and leave the tab without posting it

some people can be really dumb and ignorant but what I do is try to get along with them until I can decide whether they're actually horrible people or not. And I'm not talking about something vain like their taste in something or whether or not they can speak intelligently. Like, if they consciously fuck people over or just do dumb irresponsible shit all the time then I would make my decision and then fuck that person.

everyones got their flaws but some people acknowledge theirs and try to get better and some people are just miserable fucks. and if I think I can help that person realize or think about something like gay rights racism or whatever by mentioning it then I do that and I'm pretty blunt but truthful about it and I don't care if it comes off as cold its the way I feel and I'm not gonna lie or fluff it up for anybody.

it works pretty well for me but prolly won't get you laid very much

I don't do this if it's a group conversation instead of a one-on-one discussion, and if someone does it I generally don't call them out directly and try to instead steer the conversation to a discussion of this stuff instead of just breaking in to call someone out and making them feel like the ~PC Thought Polics~ have raided the building heh. Part of this is because I kind of hate that confrontational stuff and also feel a little embarrassed getting too strident about these things. white heterosexual middleclass male college kids speak out about oppression! vol 8. I think the line between trying to do something about this stuff and just stoking some sense of superiority kind of rests on whether you are actually trying to get through to them and basing your approach on that or just slamming them over the head with slogans or dumb aphorisms you took from someone smarter or just ridiculing them. Maybe trying to respect them as people and change their minds and actually address their ideas etc instead of just viewing them as a flock to be preached to. The idea of respecting them also ties into you know the line between when you write someone off and don't make any attempt when they break out the tucker max stuff. It is kind of when someone is so dumb you genuinely do not care what they think or say on any level at all.

Also in case anyone thought it was a covert snipe the 'white kids against oppression' part was kind of about myself in that I've been reading a bunch of feminism and stuff lately but not really doing anything about it on any level beyond maybe being impressed with myself for doing so. heh tucker max??? try some emma goldman chump *goes home, reclines in chair while gay marraige and abortion remain illegal in this shithole country*. Maybe this also has something to do with the gap between doing this stuff for awful/nonawful reasons too?? in that it might affect how often you go off on some hapless nerd who was basically you three years ago if you're not constantly trying to convince yourself that you're.....you're one of the good ones......

i think everything about that post is more or less dead on.

the reason i decided to go off on the tucker max guy is cos he's a politics student but the guy is a wildly immature right winger besides so i should probably have known better i suppose i'll give myself a pass on this one as a little test run. my conclusion is that confronting people like this is a stupid idea because they are incapable of reacting to hostility with anything other than smug derision so the softer approach is probably better. also, i really don't want to go around saying 'oh so you think gay marriage is a grey area? fuck off and die, slime'. that's just as bad as them if not probably worse.

just as much as that, i don't want to spend my whole life giving a concillatory smile when a co-worker starts muttering about how he would give a customer a ride through the exhaust pipe or whatever. i don't think i even do that anymore though. if i say something, i am probably just going to make the situation between us awkward because you don't say things like that and after some bozos' comment have a revelation, but if i don't say something i'm writing the whole situation off as lost which makes me an insignificant turd but mostly a coward because we all know the real reason i stay quiet is because i am afraid and want people to like me.

i'm just hashing things out here

just as much as that, i don't want to spend my whole life giving a concillatory smile when a co-worker starts muttering about how he would give a customer a ride through the exhaust pipe or whatever.

Yeah, I've found the uh softer approach is more helpful when I'm dealing with stuff but I'm not sure how good it is as a universal approach. STERILISE ALL DARKIES ha ha thank you 'xXultimate_himmler_fan420Xx' for contributing to the discussion! it is important to get all sides of opinion before making judgDRIVE ALL ZOG INTO THE SEA well thats certainly one way of looking at it does anyone else have a comment to bring to the table?? I know it's an approach that a lot of activists or whatever discount because it's kind of making concessions to ignorance and possibly legitimizing really horrible opinions. It's.......gradualism lol and this has its own difficulties in many ways. But yeah while I think there are times when you can or should break out the hyperbole and go full-on OUTRAAGE at people I think this kind of stuff works best on like a social level when uh protesting media or laws or stuff like that. I guess you could break this down as the difference between cause and effect, like getting angry at stupid sitcoms or movies or newspapers or whatever for bringing up hairy feminist lesbos or boat-rocking racebaiter activists because that's the only context in which a lot of people become exposed to these ideas, and trying to actually discuss something with a person who thinks like this in that hopefully they will start to see and think about it as an actual discussion instead of just poor white males being victimised on by hippies for no reason and write it all off as just pc sheep lol.

Reminds me of Catcher in the Rye?

Haha yes! Raining goddam phonies.

on my campus the other day some student group set up flags on a grassy area, one for each iraqi civilian killed during our occupation. some fuckin bro walked past me as i walked by it and i catch:

"who the fuck CARES how many sand niggers we kill? were the US and well kick their ass"

or something to that extent. it was awful i almost turned around and i have NEVER met this dude, but who the fuck says that shiiiiit

When I hear something so horribly ignorant I can't even understand how it could come out of someone's mouth, I just have to remind myself that they are beyond saving and there's no point in arguing it.  I have mentioned this several times before but I once heard a grown woman say that gays can't get married because they'll have deformed children and I so wanted to say something to her but I just had to remind myself that you can't fix stupid that bad off and so it would just be causing ME trouble.