most games: not really, but it helps a lot.

rpgs: yes it is pretty much essential, really

dwarf fortress.

dwarf fortress is a game where you make up your own stories tho ;D

i'm not really sure what this topic is asking. it's never essential. it's up to the people making the game to decide how much they want some sort of story to propel the type of experience they're trying to make.

Personally, I'm tired of narration, background or whatnot I like it to be shown through moving graphics and dialogue.. However being creative on narrating so it would be interesting would be cool as well, there are games like that.

wait, is that what  you meant by narrative story? or is this about linearty of plot

We've had this topic before, and it all boils down to the fact that it depends on the game.  Some games can pull off being entirely story-driven, some can pull off having no story at all, some can't do either properly.  There is no answer to this question.

if you are asking this question, though, your game probably does not need a story

if you are asking this question, though, your game probably does not need a story

This is pretty true, if you're looking for an excuse to not have a story you shouldn't bother.

dwarf fortress is a game where you make up your own stories tho ;D

Emergent narrative as opposed to an embedded narrative.
I mean, this is a subject that interest me a lot and I could spend a long time quoting books, texts, and master thesis on the subject but I'll cut it short.

Every game is more or less narrative. The difference is between, like I said earlier, emergent and embedded narrative. Like other people said, it all depends on the kind of game you are making. RPGs and other story driven game will need (as a general rule) a bigger narrative drive to get the player going and invested in the game world you created. On the other hand, a puzzle game probably won't need a strong embedded narrative to get you playing, it's more about the system of rules, the gameplay. The experience you are having and that you will be retelling is the emergent narrative, it's your experience with the game as an object. Depending on the genre and the gameplay, you need to gauge how much of the player's experience will come from either type.

After that, we can go and look at how we can pass that embedded narrative, be it through cinematographic language with the use of cut-scenes, through the environment (a good example is the iPhone game Spider) and the use of space (one of my ideas for my master thesis), or through gameplay as some more experimental games tried to do.

This is a more complicated issue than what you think. It's more than a story of "have it or not", it's about how to do it while using what the videoludic and the cinematic (since movies can be integrated in games) language.

Emergent narrative as opposed to an embedded narrative.
I mean, this is a subject that interest me a lot and I could spend a long time quoting books, texts, and master thesis on the subject but I'll cut it short.

man can you recommend me some books/websites/essays/whatever on this because this is a cool subject

man can you recommend me some books/websites/essays/whatever on this because this is a cool subject

There's a bunch but I'll start by pimping my University a bit
Dominic Arsenault's Master's Thesis (and a bunch of other amazing thesis on that website)
Video Game Theory Reader 1 and 2, both edited in part and with texts by Bernard Perron, one of my teacher.
Avatars of Story by Marie-Laure Ryan
Game Design Fundamentals By Salen and Zimmerman. That book is a fucking bible of game design and touches the subject of narration in video games. It was, like Ryan's book, on the narratology side during the academic debate a few years ago between narratology and ludology in video games.
Half-Real by Jesper Juul for the ludology side of the argument.

As for websites, there's a few good blog posts on the subject that come up at Critical Distance once in a while. And for a more academic website, you can always dig through Game Studies.

I'll definitely read through those, thanks man.

What's videoludic mean?

It's another term for video games, often used in academic researches.

Also The One, your question is weird. By saying "Is a narrative story important in a game", it implies that there are non-narrative stories, which is an oxymoron.

I think by narrative story he meant one with characters and progression over the course of the game as opposed to something like YOUR HOME IS INVADED BY THE DEADLY ZORG DESTROY AL THE BLOCKS TO WIN in the topic or something.

I am pretty indifferent to the emergent/embedded thing (although I do wish people would see it as always being something of a compromise rather than write off anything linear or embedded as just trying to be a movie). I wrote an article about it for the mainsite once that got cited in some dude's term paper on the metal gear solid series (!!!).

I am pretty indifferent to the emergent/embedded thing (although I do wish people would see it as always being something of a compromise rather than write off anything linear or embedded as just trying to be a movie). I wrote an article about it for the mainsite once that got cited in some dude's term paper on the metal gear solid series (!!!).

Well yeah. Mario and Zelda both have a pretty linear progression and but they do not try to be movies because they focus on gameplay over story. Maybe less on the latest Zelda games but that's another story.emergent/embedded has little to do with being or not like a movie. It's more about the delivery of the narrative.

Quote from: Terrorantula on February 03, 2010, 11:21:44 pm

What's videoludic mean?

It's another term for video games, often used in academic researches.

i pprefer the academic term "vidcon" myself