Topic: Happy New Salt + What's on your mind 2012: CHILL YOUR HEAD (Read 116275 times)

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yeah, I don't want to press the issue but the thing about using insults that other people don't like to hear is that you have to suspend your own judgment and listen to theirs instead. you have to listen and empathize with the people who might potentially be insulted by it. when you listen to them, it becomes pretty clear that although it may have no meaning to you, it has meaning to them.

you might not mean anything hurtful by your words, and I'm sure that you don't, but this is one of those moments where you have to say "your judgment is better than mine".
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Just about every time I hear someone talking about how offensive it is to use the term "faggot" it reminds me of the one time I was helping my family gather materials for a wood-burning pile.

I ended up nearly cutting my sister's eye open when I accidentally hit her in the face with the faggot I was carrying. I was scared shitless thinking that I had permanently blinded her when it happened, but as it turned out she was bleeding profusely because I had hit her right below the eye instead. I'm glad it was my big sister, because if my arms were even an inch higher in relation to her face when it happened, she'd be wearing an eye-patch today.

So yes, every time I hear that specific term, I get personally offended because it recalls a very unfortunate negative incident in my own life that I want to move past, but simply cannot for as long as constant reminders are being casually banded about without any concern for whose feelings they may hurt.
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you know I like ya dday, just please just don't use that term. it'd be better if you didn't.
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Just about every time I hear someone talking about how offensive it is to use the term "faggot" it reminds me of the one time I was helping my family gather materials for a wood-burning pile.

I ended up nearly cutting my sister's eye open when I accidentally hit her in the face with the faggot I was carrying. I was scared shitless thinking that I had permanently blinded her when it happened, but as it turned out she was bleeding profusely because I had hit her right below the eye instead. I'm glad it was my big sister, because if my arms were even an inch higher in relation to her face when it happened, she'd be wearing an eye-patch today.

So yes, every time I hear that specific term, I get personally offended because it recalls a very unfortunate negative incident in my own life that I want to move past, but simply cannot for as long as constant reminders are being casually banded about without any concern for whose feelings they may hurt.

This is dumb as fuck and don't do this either.  I don't even have words for how dumb you're being.  You're comparing the plights of homosexuals with a dumb thing that happened to you because "heh, faggot meant a bundle of sticks...a long time ago...".  You're fucking trivializing something insanely important right now.  Shut the fuck up forever.


e: I just yelled at you more on irc but I am gonna add right here for everyone that this post is literally just a straight guy saying "faggot hurts ME too" which if you don't see why this is bs don't even talk to me.
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found some rhyming sleeveless frat boys in the dining hall today. this is an actual transcript of their conversation

"yo so bro, this chick just caught me starin' at her tits, so she covered them, so I was like yea I was lookin', an she was like yea I kno"
"haha I feel for ya bro"

over a minute of silence later

"haha that's so funny tho"
"yea I kno"
"she's not here anymore. she left."
"ung."
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Well you said on IRC that I honestly have no idea what it is like to be deeply and truly hurt by hate speech, probably because it looked like I made that post in order to assign myself some level of personal empathy with people who are hurt by a specific word.

If my post made that fact about myself so obviously apparent, maybe I made it just to admit in a roundabout way that I really do have no idea what it is like to be treated that way. (even if you don't view my intentions as that way, you cannot deny that was the impression you got immediately upon viewing my post)

It is likely impossible for you to interpret what I said even slightly in that way, so let me just ask you a straightforward question: Would it have been wrong if I just admitted flat out that I have absolutely no idea what it feels like to be directly subjected to language used exclusively for hate? I want to know if doing that much is okay, or if the only way to express that admission clearly without offending anyone is to simply never make mention of any of those types of words in any context whatsoever.
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It is likely impossible for you to interpret what I said even slightly in that way, so let me just ask you a straightforward question: Would it have been wrong if I just admitted flat out that I have absolutely no idea what it feels like to be directly subjected to language used exclusively for hate?

This would have been an excellent thing to do.  What you did was the exact opposite, where you pretended or joked about knowing what it's like.  Maybe you were making a statement about how you don't actually know, but that irony isn't really appreciated, sorry.
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I was both of those Bros. This is a fine land and hardy. The golden crops shall nurture and protect my people; caverns, dug beneath the clay, protect us from the rain.
 
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........trees.....................................................................................
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An Elder Bro, upon partaking of a respectful crop offering, immediately entered a powerful fugue state. For two week, he roamed the deeper woods. Though we called, he did not answer. When he returned he held the Sacred Name, our blessing from the Bro Gods and the promise of what was to come.
 
              ______________________________________________
             |                                                                         |
             |             A B E R C R O M B I E & F I T C H                |
             |                                                                         |
             |                                   < good deals !                   |
             |                               H                                        |
             |                                                                         |
             |                                                                         |
             |    hat - 10g         crest - 90g        sneans - 999g      |
              ______________________________________________
          |                                                                               |
          |    DIGGER BRO    ?){]-<           - apple        - key        |
          |                                                                               |
          |     20g       [10] WEED     [2] MEAT       [0] TIT             |
              ______________________________________________
EVENT:  ELDER BRO HAS ENTERED THE VILLAGE
BRO CHIEF BLOWS HIS EBON HORN

Quote from: "A

BRO CHIEF:    B r o ,
w e   s h o u l d   t o t a l l y   c h e c k   o u t   t h e s e   c a v e s
t o d a y .
 
GRAIN BRO: S h u t   u p   b r o .
 
ELDER: T h e r e   a r e   m e g a   t i t s   i n   t h e s e   c a v e s
f o r    t h o s e   w i t h   c o u r a g e   t o    s e e k .
 
GRAIN BRO: T h e r e   a r e   n o    t i t s   i n   a    c a v e .
 
BRO CHIEF: D u d e,   c a v e   t i t s .
 

We labored three days and three nights, dispatching Scouts into the cave. But what we found would haunt us forever...
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ahhaha my roguelike blood is boiling/ honestly curious what happened then...??
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Hello Vellfire. Wish you had come back under better circumstances.

I'm mildly worried I'm going to say something offensive, but its honestly why I don't use (or at least avoid mostly successfully) the insults Fag/Faggot:

I don't say those words only partially because of empathy. But mostly because I understand that others are irrational about being offended. I don't want to offend people, because I'm not a dick, but I still think in the back of my mind they are being dumb for being offended by such. I've been called fat (I am *shrugs*), Whitey/cracker (not generally considered a strongly offensive racial slur, but still, it's pretty bad when you are the only white dude in the room), lazy asshole (by my dad), etc.

Now I have been mildly offended by these insults, but only when I felt like it was a honest attack, and usually only the first time it's said by any particular person. I was offended that the person was trying to be a dick to me, though, not because of what those actual insults MEANT. If someone called be a largely weak insult, but honestly meant to attack me verbally, I'd be more offended rather than if I was just casually prodded but with a stronger or 'normally offensive' term or something by a friend.

EVEN WHEN I'VE BEEN OFFENDED however, I've shortly afterwards realized its illogical to be offended by those words. The words came from a dickhead (probably), thus there is no reason to take it to mean anything, I've lost nothing from disconnecting from that person.

If I was offended by being joked about in some of the ways I mentioned, I'd realize the person meant no harm to me and would easily get over it as well.

I understand not everyone can do this, which I guess is OK. I still think its illogical and dumb to be offended at all at pretty much anything. I know I've been offended on occasion but immediately dismiss it, BECAUSE I REALIZE I SHOULD. There is no good reason to get wound up with that sort of stuff.

I've probably used the words faggot like once that I can think of in my entire life in the context of a joke, and even then, it merely slipped out in a fit of surprise.

So basically I dance around the word to avoid offending people, but not because I think they are right to be offended, but because I just don't want to hurt them, does that make sense?

I hope you don't hate me. :/
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.......................................!...........................................................
........................egg.....!....H.....................................V....stalagtite.......
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..........................................................kobold.....................................
Quote from: "A
BRO SCOUT: I t   i s    a n    e g g .
 
BRO SCOUT [2]: I t   i s   n o t    a    t i t .
 
BRO SCOUT: I t   i s    r o u n d .
 
BRO SCOUT [2]: I t   i s   o v o i d .
 
BRO SCOUT: W e   s h o u l d    t a k e   i t
w i t h    u s.
 
BRO SCOUT [2]: H o l d   u p,
b r o,
I ' m   b e i n g   t o t a l l y   s a v a g e d   b y
t h i s   k o b o l d .

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......................................H.0..Hk....................................................
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Quote
BRO SCOUT: N o    w a y .

Escape the cave!
 

 
> left
> bro, what's with this kobold.

K o b o l d   r i p s   a n d   t e a r s !
K o b o l d   r i p s   a n d   t e a r s !
B r o    i s    f l a i l i n g !
K o b o l d   r i p s   a n d   t e a r s !
B r o    i s    f l a i l i n g !


 
> there is a thing
> i think i shot the thing (is this a gun..?)
> bro, report.
 
Scout Bro [2] perished on Floor 837 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Kobold. He had zero tomes and zero potions. His final thought was of [guitars].


 
> i should have gone right. now i'm dead and i don't care about anything. wait, this egg is hatching suddenly.
 
                                               
Scout Bro perished on Floor 621 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Stalagmite. He had zero tomes and [2] potions. His final thought was of [eggs].
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loling @ broguelike
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man i missed ya catas.. are you taking part in ludum dare this weekend?

are any of you? calling all game devs.. rise from your pits and lets make some fuckin games
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Quote
So basically I dance around the word to avoid offending people, but not because I think they are right to be offended, but because I just don't want to hurt them, does that make sense?

That's basically the crux of the matter Warped. Even if you don't understand why someone is offended by something, or can justify to yourself why they shouldn't be, the fact that they ARE and the act of offending them in this way is hurtful stops people who are able to empathise from deliberately offending others.

I mean this is all OMG GW TOKEN GAY GUY having a say (although I think there are a couple of others around - hey remember when GW was mostly run by the HOMOSEX CABALS?! Good times), but I do find the use of the word 'faggot' to be incredibly offensive. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the humour in it under certain situations, but even with humour it's still a pretty offensive term. Words are wind, and shouldn't hurt, but they actually do sometimes.

I can never understand what it's like for a black person to hear the 'N' word, just as the majority of people won't understand what it's like for a homosexual person to hear the word 'faggot' used. The best result is just to moderate language to avoid offence. This isn't all OMG THOUGHT POLICE 1984, but basic decency and empathy towards others.

Fair, we (gaypeeps) are a lot more tolerated in Western society nowadays, and the fight for equality is going really well, but that word is a reminder of some people's opinions about us even now. Co-opting it to mean 'idiot' or whatever doesn't actually remove that association - it's still a negative word commonly used to refer to homosexuals.

Like I'm not CRYING MY EYES UP or whatever because DDay used the word 'fag', but I'd like to think that upon being made aware about how offensive it is that he (and others) would reflect upon their need to use that word in a place where gay people might hear it, regardless of however they can justify their use of it.

Queer was similar, but that's been RECLAIMED by gay people. I describe my own sexuality as Queer, for example. However, if someone CALLED me a 'queer', it'd be significantly different. It's similar to the 'N' word in this context. However, Faggot is a word that gay people haven't sought to reclaim, as it's one of the most venomous terms a person can use in reference to us.

That and SODOMITE ho ho ho!
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PS: I didn't get the BIG PROMOTION ;_;.
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Haven't read Faust's post yet (also sorry about the promotion : ((( ) so I might be repeating things idk:
I don't say those words only partially because of empathy. But mostly because I understand that others are irrational about being offended. I don't want to offend people, because I'm not a dick, but I still think in the back of my mind they are being dumb for being offended by such. I've been called fat (I am *shrugs*), Whitey/cracker (not generally considered a strongly offensive racial slur, but still, it's pretty bad when you are the only white dude in the room), lazy asshole (by my dad), etc.

These aren't comparable at all, and I think that's part of the reason you don't understand.  The offensiveness is part of it (though I think if you consider that they HURT people as oppose to OFFEND them you'll find a lot more empathy there), but you also have to consider that these slurs reinforce and encourage negative stereotypes towards already marginalized and oppressed groups.  You also have to consider that they are heard ALL the time.  Being called a faggot or a bitch once may not seem like a big deal, but you have to consider that people get called these things CONSTANTLY.  If I had only been called bitch once in my life it wouldn't be a big deal, but when you get called bitch and slut and whore or faggot anytime someone doesn't like what you say or just doesn't like YOU, it adds up.  I'm glad that you choose not to use them, but you really do need to understand why it's important not to.  Our world, especially online, has an absurd lack of empathy.  Stop thinking of them as irrationally offended people and start thinking of them as people who are genuinely hurt by your words.


e:


Quote
Queer was similar, but that's been RECLAIMED by gay people. I describe my own sexuality as Queer, for example. However, if someone CALLED me a 'queer', it'd be significantly different. It's similar to the 'N' word in this context. However, Faggot is a word that gay people haven't sought to reclaim, as it's one of the most venomous terms a person can use in reference to us.


This is a good point btw, but I want to say something just in case someone is thinking this because I've seen it happen several times (maybe not here so this could be a waste but I want to say it to be safe):  if you are not part of the group the word is targeting, you do not get to reclaim or redefine it.  There are a lot of white people who think they should say nigger or straight people who think they should say faggot a lot in order to "make it less powerful" or redefine it.  That's not how it works.  It's up to the group themselves to decide to do that and you need to be respectful of that group's decision either way.  This comes up a LOT in conversations about "how come BLACK people can say the n-word and WE can't?".
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Scout Bro perished on Floor 621 of the Eastern Cavern. He was terrifically mauled by a Stalagmite. He had zero tomes and [2] potions. His final thought was of [eggs].


rip

and thanks catamites for a good
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Vellfire, I want you to know that I think that you are a good person and I agree with most of what you say.

However, I think that you try to go after everyone that says stupid shit and this is a pretty unwinnable crusade, especially on the internet. Your attempt to do so makes you look like a very easily offended and irritable person. Also, I think that when people here are trying to address their point of view about it you often dismiss it and tell them they're wrong, even if they have decent points. I know you're idealistic and you want what's right, but I really think you should relax a bit.
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Vellfire, I want you to know that I think that you are a good person and I agree with most of what you say.

However, I think that you try to go after everyone that says stupid shit and this is a pretty unwinnable crusade, especially on the internet. Your attempt to do so makes you look like a very easily offended and irritable person. Also, I think that when people here are trying to address their point of view about it you often dismiss it and tell them they're wrong, even if they have decent points. I know you're idealistic and you want what's right, but I really think you should relax a bit.

How about this shit matters to me and I don't care what it makes people think of me?  It's apparently not unwinnable since for example EDC sees what he did wrong now (we talked it out on IRC).  I know I'm not going to convince literally everyone, but I've convinced a few people and that's enough for me to keep it up.  It may not seem important to you, but it's important to me and I don't need people telling me to give it up or that I need to just "relax" (which is pretty dismissive dude).
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