You didn't answer my question before.

If you had a black friend, and he was acting mean or annoying to you, would you ever say to him "stop being such a nigger"? Of course you wouldn't. Even if it doesn't bother your friend, then maybe it bothers the other black guy you don't know who's standing in earshot.

It's the same for the word fag, that's a word used to be demeaning and offensive to gay people. It doesn't matter what you mean by it. You could have the best intentions, and it wouldn't change a thing.

first off no because honestly nigger doesn't fit in any real world applications but the other word that I'm refraining form using dose.

On second thought nigger rig is real application but it could not be used in your or my context.

Also dada what question?

just dont say nigger or fag or whatever, it's not a good thing to say ever and just be conscious of that and apologize if u fuck up

just dont say nigger or fag or whatever, it's not a good thing to say ever and just be conscious of that and apologize if u fuck up

This is really the main thing that needs to be taken out of this conversation.  I've tried to explain why this is important at great lengths because if you don't change your attitudes about it then changing your language doesn't mean as much, but even if you don't get why it's important if you stop doing it you're at least not going to hurt anyone with it.

There are plenty of people who think that it's okay to call a black guy a "nigger" when he's annoying you. That's not too different from saying "fag". It doesn't matter if you don't mean anything racist/homophobic with it, because what matters is how people take it.

People can't read your mind. They have no idea if you have good or bad intentions.

You never call a black guy Nigger regardless like I will never knowingly call a gay friend a ***. But if I knew he wasn't I would call him that if he was doing something foolish. I don't use the word a lot but in the past I did use it and I can see myself using it in the future and to say I won't say it ever would be a lie.

Now I do use the word nigger rig too but it's been about 11 year since I used that one too.

This is really the main thing that needs to be taken out of this conversation.  I've tried to explain why this is important at great lengths because if you don't change your attitudes about it then changing your language doesn't mean as much, but even if you don't get why it's important if you stop doing it you're at least not going to hurt anyone with it.

In reality words hurt no one actions that where associated with them where. The mind built a hate towards that word because it was used against them. Why must I hide a more proper way to use them because they associated them with that action?

You use the word hurt but in reality as long as I don't use them in hate there not hurtful at all and that's how I feel about the matter.

In reality words hurt no one actions that where associated with them where.

The idea that words don't hurt has been proven in this very thread where the people they target told you that yes, they do.  Maybe you should listen to them.

The mind built a hate towards that word because it was used against them. Why must I hide a more proper way to used them because they associated them with that action?

For one, using them to continue to insult people isn't really that grand of a gesture.  Also, these words aren't yours to redefine.  If the LGBT community wanted to reclaim faggot like they did queer, they could and that would be fine.  You're not part of that community so that's not your choice.  I understand you don't WANT the word to hurt, but it does, and that's why you need to quit using it and quit grasping at straws to make the word acceptable.  You said yourself that you don't use the word a lot (and I don't remember seeing you say it until now so that's probably true), so it shouldn't be hard at all for you to stop entirely.  There's plenty of other, better words out there.

The idea that words don't hurt has been proven in this very thread where the people they target told you that yes, they do.  Maybe you should listen to them.

For one, using them to continue to insult people isn't really that grand of a gesture.  Also, these words aren't yours to redefine.  If the LGBT community wanted to reclaim faggot like they did queer, they could and that would be fine.  You're not part of that community so that's not your choice.  I understand you don't WANT the word to hurt, but it does, and that's why you need to quit using it and quit grasping at straws to make the word acceptable.  You said yourself that you don't use the word a lot (and I don't remember seeing you say it until now so that's probably true), so it shouldn't be hard at all for you to stop entirely.  There's plenty of other, better words out there.

Sadly they still don't word don't hurt it's how they are used.

I'm not try to grab straw but accept me as I am. I will not change on my stance.

Sadly they still don't word don't hurt it's how they are used.

I'm not try to grab straw but accept me as I am. I will not change on my stance.

There's really nothing left I can say man, but this really is a damn shame that you feel this way.  How many people have to tell you that the way YOU in particular used the word was hurtful before you believe them?

There's really nothing left I can say man, but this really is a damn shame that you feel this way.  How many people have to tell you that the way YOU in particular used the word was hurtful before you believe them?

They are not hurtful there may be an Association on when they where used to hurt and words may bring about the memories of those times but if used properly they don't hurt it's all on the actions and feeling that are applied to that word.

They are not hurtful there may be a Association on when they where used to hurt but as it stands to me I did not use it to be so.

They hurt people in this very thread.  That is by definition hurtful.  It CAUSED HURT that is hurtful man ! ! !

I think you should let it go dday. I know you've got a lot of people yelling at you. the point is that it's offensive to people regardless of your intent, and it's not their fault they find it offensive. so you should just give it up, you'll find a better word to mean stupid or uncool. having to change your vocab isn't comparable to having to be incessantly reminded off how awful and hostile a place the world can be to someone for who they are. I'm not going to argue about it so you don't have to respond, and I've read all your posts in this thread

It it impractical to call anyone a nigger/nigga or a fag/faggot in almost any context and expect normal relations with most people to continue.

There is really no good reason to call anyone these things, with the exception being a black person using nigger/nigga.  It's a reclaimed word, which is kind of a tricky thing to discuss.  Some white people think that because it has been reclaimed that they should be able to use it.  The thing with this is that originally the word was a way for white people to exert their power over black people.  By reclaiming it for themselves, black people have taken that power back.  White people trying to use it with this reasoning are just exerting their original power, which is doing the exact opposite.  This comes up a lot when people try to argue about why it's okay for black people to say it but not white people.

do you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?

There is no debate, this is exactly why.  This is why you can't divorce the word faggot from its meaning and turn it into a general insult.  The REASON it's an insult is tied into its homophobic roots.  By calling someone (typically a man) gay or a faggot, you're telling them that they are lesser.  So, not only are you implying that gay people are subhuman, but you are ALSO reinforcing the homophobia of those hearing this insult.  The person being insulted is going to continue associating being called gay (and homosexuality in general) with being humiliated, everyone else is going to be reminded of the same thing with the potential threat that they'll be the next one called this.  The word bitch is used in the same way (making someone your bitch, someone acting like a little bitch, etc.), by implying that a man is something associated with women, you're implying he's subhuman while also reinforcing the idea that women are subhuman and you don't want to be like them.  That's why people arguing that these jokes are fine within your circle of friends that you know aren't offended by things isn't a good argument.  You're still reinforcing these ideas among people that you're supposed to LIKE and they're going to perpetuate it.  If you and a friend get comfortable calling each other fags, you're endlessly supporting hate speech between each other and you're likely to start using it elsewhere.  It's best and easiest that you just don't support hate speech at all.

This is probably the best arguement I've read.  but that (only within technically) leaves out the group itself for consideration. If you are calling someone else a nigger and your a black person as well one would have to assume the worst? Then again, as far as I can tell, "nigga" has slowly become the acceptable variant as a term of endearment and nigger has mostly stuck to be purely racist.

Thinking about it, it almost turns it into a practicality issue.

It it impractical to call anyone a nigger/nigga or a fag/faggot in almost any context and expect normal relations with most people to continue.

Sudden thought that I had while writing this post:
do you guys think that maybe the REASON that people still use the term faggot is as primarily a way to demean straight men as 'unmanly'? Espeically since just calling them unmanly is perhaps not as 'sharp' of a word? And its become culturally stuck in men's minds that if they aren't manly that they basically suck as a person, which makes fag such an effective insult?

Calling someone unmanly would never work so yes a sad fact and all but it's the only way to piss someone off by using such a word like that. I feel you would also need to harass them with this word because if I was called this once I will blow it off (and I was called this before). Most insults in my opinion are weak unless done over and over and it helps if you have other people to do it too.

Turning something small into something.