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Beasley

#1 January 02, 2012, 11:20:09 pm

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how do you guys feel about texas congressman ron paul? ive got to do more research on the guy, but he seems somewhat attractive as a candidate. at the very least he's a genuine, consistent candidate, offering a lot of things you can't find anywhere else in the 2012 field.

on the other hand, some of his ideas are downright whacky. he favors reverting to the gold standard, is totally isolationist (which is a great thing to a certain extent), and favors abolishing the income tax. really? the income tax? even the rightest of right wingers aren't trying to destroy the income tax completely.

he'd probably destroy medicare and medicaid too. and welfare.

ok nevermind after thinking about it he is a bad option but at least he isn't taking phat corporate kickbacks like the rest of em but i wrote this out so ima post it anyway

who are you supporting america politics 2012? anarchist? green party? repooplican? change(obama)?

vote for beasley 2012

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Beasley

#2 January 02, 2012, 11:20:53 pm

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seriously i was pulled in because he seems like a nice guy but i did a 180 on this fool so quick it took like 2 minutes

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bootstrap bill

#3 January 02, 2012, 11:32:02 pm

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I'd vote for him if I could.

"BOOHOO BUT HE'S A RACIST" well guess what buddy? Both obama and bush got a lot more brown and black people killed over petty trivial stuff.

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bootstrap bill

#4 January 02, 2012, 11:36:02 pm

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I think what he stands for is much closer to true survival-of-the-fittest anarchy than anything else. I think if the government can invest people's money better than the people could do, then it should. Doesn't seem to be the case in US or any other country that isn't a nordic welfare state, however.

Therefore, Ron Paul 2012 GO GO GO.

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Beasley

#5 January 02, 2012, 11:39:09 pm

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i mean the income tax is pretty ok where it is right now, it doesn't need to be abolished. plenty of incentive to be sucesful etc. etc. but i mean youve gotta reign in capitalisms monopolistic tendencies nah mean.

but imo healthcare is like the one industry the government should non-ambiguously be heavily involved in in some way

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Beasley

#6 January 02, 2012, 11:40:27 pm

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just the fact this he is not owned by a company makes him really appealing. honestly its impressive he is competing. does he do really well from private donations or what how is he funding his shit

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dada

#7 January 03, 2012, 12:46:46 am

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I wish I could type a lengthy post about this but it's late and I'm tired and I've got more important work to do.

So instead I'll just link to this letter on Ron Paul by the world's leading anarchist intellectual, Noam Chomsky.

Basically the gist of Ron Paul is that he has a few interesting proposals and is against interventionism (mostly accidentally) but this doesn't excuse that he upholds laissez-faire capitalism as the ideal form of social organization and believes every important victory of labor activism should be overturned.

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tuxedo marx

#8 January 03, 2012, 12:49:05 am

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DFJKFGDJ FGDKLJFG KDFLG FGD

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dada

#9 January 03, 2012, 12:49:46 am

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Welcome to /r/saltw.

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Moriason

#10 January 03, 2012, 01:11:54 am

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Pretty much all the candidates are awful - it's almost better if America as a nation decided as a nation that it's going to vote by not voting at all, it'd at least push the idea that people have SOME sort of legitimate choice as opposed to choosing shitty leader with outrageous ideas who will almost assuredly change nothing in your life for the better vs other shitty leader with outrageous ideas who will almost assuredly change nothing in your life for the better. Toss in the fact that WHOEVER takes over always inherits the fuckups of the predecessors, which have been building for decades given THEY inherited the problems of THEIR predecessors, and they basically spend their 4-year term trying to play catch-up in a game they're ultimately losing.

21st-century politics are some depressing shit. Whatever I've said is probably pretty easy to rebut, so go ahead if you want I guess! I won't argue it, since I'm not particularly attached to these sentiments so much as it's just sorta how I feel about the whole situation these days - apaaaathy.

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dada

#11 January 03, 2012, 01:31:19 am

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Quote from: gloomy djinni on January 03, 2012, 01:11:54 am

it's almost better if America as a nation decided as a nation that it's going to vote by not voting at all

I don't think that will do anything. Practically nobody votes as it is because people don't think it matters.

Quote from: gloomy djinni on January 03, 2012, 01:11:54 am

Toss in the fact that WHOEVER takes over always inherits the fuckups of the predecessors, which have been building for decades given THEY inherited the problems of THEIR predecessors, and they basically spend their 4-year term trying to play catch-up in a game they're ultimately losing.

I don't think they're mistakes. These policies are all intentional. Obama's just continuing the same policies that are leading to the decline of the working class. He didn't inherit a mess—he inherited something that the people, the voters, think is a mess—but to him it's the perfectly logical result of decades of policy direction. It's a specific ideology that he adheres to, and it's all working exactly as intended.

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Moriason

#12 January 03, 2012, 01:37:40 am

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Well, most of my college teachers would agree with you Dada, and since they're smarter cats than I ever was, I'm inclined to as well. Unfortunately that's the reason FOR my apathy, the whole situation's so fucked that it's going to take such a resolve from the society itself to change it I really don't see how it's going to happen given the power of a very well loved and established hegemony that can always just pull on people's patriotic heartstrings and all that jazz. Even here in Canada, we get pissed about this kind of stuff but it's not bad ENOUGH that we're willing to acknowledge it to the point of taking interest in our own fate beyond putting a check mark in a box every couple of years.

Sucks to live in America I guess!

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Farren

#13 January 03, 2012, 01:45:14 am

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I would rather have fallout happen, then I would make my own tribe and shoot motherfuckers in the head who thought like any of the current candidates for president of the united states 2012.

I used to hate the idea of dictators, monarchs, and militant leadership but I think if its done right its way better than this bullshit.

Che "Farren" Villa for international warlord - 2016

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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Moriason

#14 January 03, 2012, 01:49:25 am

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The important part of the whole dictator thing Farren is to keep in mind none of us have actually lived under such conditions, so it's easy to speak on.

As retarded as some of the stuff going on here in North America seems, we're kidding ourselves if us 20-25 year old adults think we're qualified to speak on actual atrocity. Our connection to that shit is History Channel level.

This is the second time I've referenced it today but this whole thing is like that Good Will Hunting clip where Robin Williams tells Matt Damon what's up in relation to the experience of living something versus studying it later.

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dada

#15 January 03, 2012, 02:03:55 am

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Quote from: gloomy djinni on January 03, 2012, 01:37:40 am

Unfortunately that's the reason FOR my apathy, the whole situation's so fucked that it's going to take such a resolve from the society itself to change it I really don't see how it's going to happen

There are ways to change this. It's going to be slow and gradual, but there's a good starting point: Occupy Wall Street. It should turn to neighborhood and labor organizing now. The act of just protesting has pretty much run its course for them. They should realize that people are overwhelmingly on their side, and that given the right degree of organization they can start to seriously make changes. There's a well-documented inverse correlation between labor organization and the level of income of the so-called 1% (which isn't an exact number but it's basically the right visual). That's also why so much effort was put in effectively dismantling labor unions, and why they're so demonized today.

ps: I'm quite surprised you had college teachers who would agree with me on any of these things.

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dada

#16 January 03, 2012, 02:04:53 am

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Quote from: Farren on January 03, 2012, 01:45:14 am

I used to hate the idea of dictators, monarchs, and militant leadership but I think if its done right its way better than this bullshit.

The problem is that the people have too little say, not that they have too much say.

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Farren

#17 January 03, 2012, 02:09:34 am

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I dunno. I understand the frustration of someone telling you or making you do shit that you don't want to or don't like but honestly. If there was a "dictator" that held the interests of the people at heart with a transparant, simple, and honest policy for the betterment of all benign living things. I think it would be way better on every level. But that person would also have to be willing to give up power once his/her job was done, back to the people.

I visialize any resistance to that like a comparison to the relationship between a parent and child. If the child isn't educated, doesn't understand the reason why then he fights. If he can learn why, he can walk his own path later on. The problem is the world is full of dumbass babies who can't shut the fuck up, think, and listen. Which is why we need a Ghandi with a gun. Shoot the gun, they shut-up and if you talk eloquently and simply enough then maybe enough can get the point?

And when I say "dumbass babies" I'm not even talking about your average layman, you're average suffering working man. Because I think they'd learn quicker than the others. The ones that are the problem, the ones that are the problem now and will always be the problem are those that HAVE and cannot fucking understand what its like to NOT HAVE or be a HAVE NOT and especially do not understand the basic principle of the greater good and sharing with the unfortunate. Regardless of the outcome of such a thing or cause for such a predicament in the first place.

Except on christmas........

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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crone_lover720

#18 January 03, 2012, 02:10:07 am

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sorry this thread is pretty much doomed bc the first few posts are talking about ron paul and not singularly negatively. his son is rand paul btw if you didn't know, named after ayn rand

beasley there is SO MUCH SHIT on ron paul you would not believe it but I think a lot of us are just sick of him by now and don't have the energy to care anymore. search for steel's posts on him if you wanna, or look up what he thinks about the FDA

I'm gonna be writing in herman cain. actually I have no idea who to vote for

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dada

#19 January 03, 2012, 02:23:07 am

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Quote from: Farren on January 03, 2012, 02:09:34 am

I dunno. I understand the frustration of someone telling you or making you do shit that you don't want to or don't like but honestly. If there was a "dictator" that held the interests of the people at heart with a transparant, simple, and honest policy for the betterment of all benign living things. I think it would be way better on every level. But that person would also have to be willing to give up power once his/her job was done, back to the people.

I visialize any resistance to that like a comparison to the relationship between a parent and child. If the child isn't educated, doesn't understand the reason why then he fights. If he can learn why, he can walk his own path later on. The problem is the world is full of dumbass babies who can't shut the fuck up, think, and listen. Which is why we need a Ghandi with a gun. Shoot the gun, they shut-up and if you talk eloquently and simply enough then maybe enough can get the point?

The basic fallacy of this argument, aside from the rather obvious fact that absolute power corrupts absolutely, is that people are stupid and in need of education by some smarter being. That's just not true. Take a look at the US: widespread agreement on a number of things that politicians disagree with. Such as single-payer healthcare, which a majority has wanted for well over a decade now. Or the Iraq war, for which a minority support only existed because people were led to believe that there really were weapons of mass destruction.

So you can support a dictator, or you can support a form of government whereby people are the ones who decide what happens, rather than just ratifying what the elites want to do every few years. A form that doesn't have leaders, but representatives that can be recalled anytime as soon as they stop representing the people. A form that doesn't lead to gigantic class differences that spawn wealthy elites who eventually get to run everything. That's what democracy is. Which is something entirely different than what's going on in the US today.

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Farren

#20 January 03, 2012, 02:25:37 am

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Quote

There are ways to change this. It's going to be slow and gradual, but there's a good starting point: Occupy Wall Street.

I dunno too much about occupy wall street but to me it looked like a bunch of college student level pampered hipster jackasses with no real direction except "THE CURRENT MARKET IS FUCKING US AND WE ARE MAD!" It just seemed like a shallow ass bandwagon full of kids who would stand in the streets and shout but not take a bullet for what they believe in. That shit doesn't work. its too plastic, yuppie, and whiny to me. Now if they'd burned the wallstreet building to the ground, pawned off all of the steel foundation and building material and then gave it to the homeless. That would send a very accurate and passionate message the world would have to listen to.

I know what I'm saying doesn't sound realistic but vocalizing what you feel is not enough. No one of importance fucking cares. They have to see you stopping the status quo and breaking shit, costing them money before they even start to REALLY give a fuck.

Quote

The basic fallacy of this argument, aside from the rather obvious fact that absolute power corrupts absolutely, is that people are stupid and in need of education by some smarter being. That's just not true. Take a look at the US: widespread agreement on a number of things that politicians disagree with. Such as single-payer healthcare, which a majority has wanted for well over a decade now.

I don't think there is ever absolution with anything. It takes a person that personally doesn't want that kind of power in order to actually use it the right way. Not education in the way of the traditional sense. More like guidance and leadership. The world has/is/will be shaped by the few men/women who don't think like the rest of the world. An enlightened, good person, with the good of the people in mind would have done all those things without argument or beauracracy in less than of the tenth of the time it would take your democracy.

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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