Topic: I can't believe people believe in Scientology / Mormonism (Read 2768 times)

  • Avatar of The One
  • my freinds call me theo but u can call me god
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2009
  • Posts: 486
I just watched the South Park episodes about Scientology and Mormonism. And I couldn't believe that those religions could actually be like that, so I checked on Wikipedia. And South Park's portrayal of Scientology and Mormonism is actually accurate.

Why do people believe this crap?

First off, Scientology. Everyone knows L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer, even Scientologists ACKNOWLEDGE that he was. And yet they still choose to believe in aliens from outer space influencing humanity.

And then there's Mormonism. The sole fact that John Smith failed to replicate the so-called "scriptures" from the golden plate letter after letter after some pages were stolen, outright proves that he was a fake. And yet there are thousands who believe that he actually directly communicated with God, Jesus, and angels and that he got some new golden plates and that's why he couldn't narrate the old story once more.

I mean, I'm not someone who's against religion. The whole idea of God and Jesus doesn't sound that weird to me. I'm not a religious person, but I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of a higher being who could actually make miracles happen. But when there's a religion that believes that some douchebag has actually talked to Jesus, and was told to make his own religion because all the others are WRONG, that's where I draw the line.

Can't these blind people see they're being taken advantage of so that the people who invented Scientology / Mormonism can make money?

It just boggles my mind. Just had to get that off my chest.
  • Avatar of tuxedo marx
  • Fuckin' A.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 21, 2005
  • Posts: 4143
I just watched the South Park episodes about
there goes your mandate
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
You have to realize that, with regard to mormonism, there's a big cultural aspect to it as well. Some people are mormons, their family are mormons, and their community and the people they know are mormons. So someone might not believe a thing about it and still choose to continue to take part in the church proceedings. This goes for just about any religion—it's never difficult to point out that there's no rational basis for believing in it, but you're sort of missing the point if that's your determination. That doesn't necessarily mean they're unfortunate prisoners of the expectations of their peers. That's something to keep in mind. When you criticize someone's religion, you're criticizing some of the very core aspects of their being.
  • Avatar of ATARI
  • Lichens!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 26, 2002
  • Posts: 4136
I grew up in a culturally religious community so I understand the cultural aspect, but when you take a step from what you've been doing culturally under any circumstances, usually you can find a lot of flaws in what you do on a regular basis anyways.  Religion in particular though, has a lot of "I can't believe how dumb I was" to go along with it though.  (Not that posting on games forums is any better)
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
I can understand that, particularly since there are always a lot of forces trying to capitalize on people's beliefs. In the US it's extreme.
  • Avatar of big ass skelly
  • Ò_Ó
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 12, 2002
  • Posts: 4313
think about it  OP the only differents between ``mormon and moron'' is M and that stands for moron as well probably

Don't even get me started on rap music aka crap music
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
Don't even get me started on pastel colors
  • Avatar of Warped655
  • Scanner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Mar 25, 2004
  • Posts: 2416
I grew up in a lazy catholic immediate family. But my dad's side of the family is very religious. I dance around the topics when I'm with them but often its impossible. Sometimes I'll lie through my teeth to avoid a discussion. Especially, with my grandma who's a pain about it. Though I'm pretty sure she figured out because most of my of my blood aunts or uncles (10 of them in all) reports to her and I'm pretty sure I've told 2 or 3 of them. She doesn't speak to me nearly as much now which frankly I'm fine with because shes very manipulative and has alienated certain corners of her own family. My sister refuses to even go to any family event involving her and I don't blame her.

I'm atheist-agnostic and think all organized religion is dumb. Scientology holds a special place in crazy town though. Mormonism is one of the odder christian sects but arguably one of the more harmless ones. Christian Science, West Boro Baptists, some other Baptists, etc are far worse. They are almost parodies of Christianity. Catholics are really bad sometimes, I know this well but they aren't as obnoxious as Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Presbyterians I know on my mom's side seem really down to earth. Though my grandma is extremely lax on religious stuff in general with the exception of taking the lord's name in vain.

IDK too much about other non-christian religions. Buddism seems pretty cool though in comparison to other religions(not that I still don't think its dumb). Islam I know little about other than what I see in the news, I'll leave it at that. Hindi seems interesting like the old greek and roman religions are interesting. Judaism's modern US culture is fine but I know little about the religion itself other than the obvious elements talked about on TV.
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
Islam I know little about other than what I see in the news, I'll leave it at that.
The amount of blatant racism in the media against Muslims is staggering. Some of the stuff being said is reminiscent of Der Stürmer, the anti-Semitic propaganda being pushed before and during Hitler's reign. And that's no exaggeration.

Lately it's been particularly painful because of the riots that are currently going on in response to an offensive Youtube video. The commentary is just plain dimwitted. And I'm not talking about right-wing conservatives, but about liberals too (like Richard Dawkins, who pounced on the opportunity). Nobody actually checks whether they know anything about the Arab world at all before they open their mouth. The analyses I've seen don't go further than "look at how stupid those people are for rioting in response to a Youtube video made by a nobody".

I'd advise you to take what's said with a grain of salt. If you're interested, you can read a good explanation of the riots here. Another good relevant article is here (Counterpunch rules).
  • Avatar of tuxedo marx
  • Fuckin' A.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 21, 2005
  • Posts: 4143
Richard Dawkins
*sharpens katana*
  • Avatar of jamie
  • ruined former youth seeking atonement
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 4, 2003
  • Posts: 3581
mormons: owned
scientologists: owned
muslims: owned

who's next in line?
  • Avatar of big ass skelly
  • Ò_Ó
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 12, 2002
  • Posts: 4313
christian have always grind my gears as well.

1) don't believe in the big bang or gravity
2) leave a child with a priest? YEAH RIGHT
3) you can take a  christian to water (science) but you can't make him drink (experiments)
4) christan babes won't do sex until you marry and it's such a hassle

One day all the old christians will die and atheists and christians will be all that's left, thank god.
  • Avatar of tuxedo marx
  • Fuckin' A.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 21, 2005
  • Posts: 4143
https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/246885079060713473 richard dawkins unironically tweeted this
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
On that note, I find people like Richard Dawkins to be far less tolerable than, say, Rush Limbaugh. Yes, Limbaugh is a massive thug; everybody knows that. But Dawkins supposedly stands for freedom from oppression, for human and civil rights and for the inherent and inalienable rights to happiness. He supposedly has those values, and yet his response to these riots is utter glee. He's not passing up on the opportunity to remind everybody of just how stupid you are if you're religious, pointing to the riots as an example of what that leads to. And suddenly he has a great deal more media access than before—who doesn't want a self-proclaimed liberal to come on and vindicate the deep-seated racism against Muslims that the mainstream exhibits?

When I read his tweets on the matter, I'm reminded of my time in primary school. Specifically the school playground, where groups of kids would coalesce and reinforce group cohesion by attacking other groups. Dawkins is the kid yelling provocative slurs across the field, to whichever kids are unfortunate enough to be part of unacceptable minority demographic. His level of discourse is hardly more thoughtful and substantial than that of a 5 year old.

It's a quality he shares with the late Christopher Hitchens, another famous racist New School atheist, who extolled his euphoria at the thought of finally being able to move in and do more "humanitarian" meddling in the affairs of Arab countries as he watched the World Trade Center smolder. This is someone who was perfectly aware of the massive atrocities that US forces commit when they invade and occupy a country, as he had extensively written on the topic and called for Henry Kissinger to be tried as a war criminal. Yet he was not just supportive for reasons of necessity, but happy to see the day the US went after those awful Muslims. Fellow ideologue Sam Harris was glad to assist and did so in writing and in public. One might notice that I've kept to three of the so-called "Four Horsemen" of New School atheism. The tendency towards support for US imperialism seems to be a built-in quality of the ideology.

We should be careful not to confuse these people as fighters for rationality and peace. These super-hypocrites who claim to be fighting religion for the general good of mankind have no concept of their own privilege and are frighteningly unaware of history and reality. The decision by Dawkins to use recent events as an opportunity to lob childish insults at people on the other side of the planet expose him as a complete intellectual fraud, particularly since his commentary is so completely decontextualized from important facts about Western influence on the region that help reveal what's really going on. Of course he can't begin to explain: it would flatly remove his ability to slander the followers of the one religion he most strongly loves to hate. Not only is imperialism built into his philosophy, but also intellectual dishonesty and shortsightedness. Dawkins knows that if you look deeply enough, religion is never the underlying reason for anything—not even for the Crusades or the Inquisitions. He resolves this dissonance by simply never looking very deeply into any matter that permits him to attack religion.

Dawkins is a complete fraud, and somehow it's types like him that make me far more sick to my stomach than the ultra-right.
  • Avatar of Puppet Master
  • Master of Puppets
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jul 16, 2005
  • Posts: 751
I'm only bringing this up because you mentioned the South Park episodes, but Matt Stone and Trey Parker have said that they wanted to have people take a step back and look at their own beliefs after seeing them. Really, there isn't a religion that can't be condensed into a little story that sounds really stupid.

I grew up agnostic in a really Christian area and I had times where I would the merits of religion with people, but really everyone just gets pissed off at each other and no one "wins." In my experience letting people believe what they want to believe is more pleasant for everybody.
  • Avatar of The One
  • my freinds call me theo but u can call me god
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2009
  • Posts: 486
I don't mind people believing in Scientology or whatever they want. I just don't understand it. Okay, I guess I can understand those people who need to believe something just for the sake of believing something, because they think it helps them in life. But not those who actually believe in it and see it as the absolute truth.

But the sad truth is that believing that Star Wars is real, would actually make more sense then believing in Scientology. Except Star Wars has no churches, and if you'd say you believe Star Wars is real you'd be laughed at, while Scientologists take themselves and their religion seriously.
  • Avatar of Puppet Master
  • Master of Puppets
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jul 16, 2005
  • Posts: 751
Please explain to me how believing Star Wars is real makes more sense than believing Scientology.
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
South Park is horrible btw
  • Avatar of Barack Obama
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 16, 2008
  • Posts: 5244
Quote
Okay, I guess I can understand those people who need to believe something just for the sake of believing something, because they think it helps them in life. But not those who actually believe in it and see it as the absolute truth.

um usually these are the same people.

idk how to help you understand this shit man, people find religion typically due to the circumstances they grow up in. Scientology essentially sells happiness and attracts people who feel like their lives are empty(usually at times when they're pretty vulnerable). The church of LDS has a huge base of people who are raised in the church(huge families, regionally concentrated) and they send tons of missionaries out all over the place, cast a wide net and you're bound to snag a few new followers.
  • Avatar of The One
  • my freinds call me theo but u can call me god
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jul 10, 2009
  • Posts: 486
Please explain to me how believing Star Wars is real makes more sense than believing Scientology.

Because that story actually makes more sense. They never mention humans or anything and there's no planet Earth. So somewhere in a galaxy far far away a long time ago it could have actually taken place. Which is why I say that it's less ridiculous to believe then Scientology, which claims outrageous things have taken place right here on Earth and directly influenced humanity as a whole.