Summary:

Doktormartini: Israel does some bad things.

Everyone else: LOL NO. UR stupid.

Do you guys even know what the fuck your talking about of are you basing your entire train of thought on the fact that you don't like Doktormatrini? You people need to grow the fuck up, really. Look beyond your narrow fucking viewpoints.

Even if you don't like someone, even hate them, there should be a respectful discussion of opinions. Disrespect is how things degenerate into pointless and time consuming flame wars. I am a member of various other forums where flame wars have pretty much crippled the effectiveness of the forum and as a result some very terrible new legislation was passed under out noses before we got a chance to raise hell.

I don't care if you dislike the guy, but just hear him out. Then when if what he's said is fucking stupid nail him on it. IMHO it just seems that you're dismissing what he says because it is being said by him (which will most likely happen to this post because I, KK4, wrote it).

I've noticed most discussions I take part in turn into shit storms, and I would like to avoid that. I've pretty much said my peace on the issue but will continue to observe until something catches my interests.

so basically you just ignored anything that you didn't agree with

I believe you're making an assumption without really understanding what I am trying to say. No, I don't ignore anything that I don't agree with. However, I pay attention to the manner in which information is presented and if it is presented in a defamatory/disrespectful and combative way I think that the person most likely isn't someone who I would like to have a discussion with and fade out. I am very big on respect and politeness, and much of this activity clashes with my view of what should characterize discussions about important topics. That isn't to say that I can't be rude, combative or disrespectful, but when discussing an issue I would like to avoid such things because peaceful discussions, imho, are more productive than shouting matches. I'm more than happy to explain myself if asked in a respectful manner to do so, and I will also ask others to explain their positions in a respectful manner.

I'm not talking to you because you're a moron but to anyone who thinks discussion is possible with some of these people; it's UNFAIR to honestly debate something that a non-monster would regard as true.

This is exactly what I am talking about.



The situation in Israel is very complicated and has a history that stretches back into the biblical days, and I do not think that you guys are seriously taking this into consideration and are just attacking each other, and I do not believe that's productive at all. Things are not black and white, and both sides have done some pretty seriously fucked up shit. However, it must be asked who benefits from all of this. Neither the people of Israel or the Palestinians will benefit from this, because such an action is only going to foster more negativity and continue to perpetuate the violence.

Think of the kids here ( and no not in a Mrs. Lovejoy kind of way), the Little Israelis are growing up in fear of being blown up or killed by the Arabs, and the Palestinians are growing up under the boot of oppression and collective punishment. Either side who asks, "Why me, why am I being targeted" is going to hate their perceived enemy and the cycle will continue when they grow up and there will be no peace.

By the way, I forgot about this argument.
You are an utter idiot because you clearly talk without informing yourself.

Even if Israel stopped retaliating, it is OBVIOUS terrorism would not stop. Because the WHOLE PROBLEM is that the terrorists DO NOT RECOGNIZE Israel as being a LEGITIMATE country.

So I guess, instead of acting out of good faith, they should continue to launch larger and larger attacks against one another? That will fix the middle East, man, I'm sure of it. I didn't mean to say that terrorism would magically stop if the Israeli government stopped being such douchebags, I meant that perhaps the attacks would quiet down MAYBE ONLY A LITTLE TINY BIT which would still be a GOOD thing because less people would be dying.

But hey, fuck me for thinking that less people dying is ever a good thing, right?

No, wait, fuck you for assuming that because the terrorists DO NOT RECOGNIZE Israel as being a LEGITIMATE country that the more moderate people who support (or even tolerate) terrorist radicals who are launching the attacks. The problem with terrorists isn't that they're bad people (because if that were the only problem, they'd just be regular criminals) it's that they are organized and funded by other groups, and they have an agenda. If you remove any of that funding or make any of them reconsider their agenda, that will almost certainly mean lives saved, even if it is only a few.

So fuck you for saying that I am an idiot who is "uninformed" because I don't have a solution to the Middle East crisis and just want to see less people dying and a more viable backdrop for peace.

edit: KK4 and steel, take your shitfest elsewhere. While I agree with steel here, I don't want to see ever topic turn into a public debate between you two faggots (well, one faggot).

double edit: I just realized my post was pretty mean but Lord Kamina was mean to me =(. Anyways, if he responds then we'll probably just be flaming each other, so I'm sorry I was so mean, let's continue to be friends (or friendly acquaintances or whatever) outside this topic!

Wow, what a shitty topic. I honestly lost a lot of respect for some of the members here. It is almost impossible to have a serious topic that is free of stupid ignorant comments. I've come to accept that (it's the internet, what can you expect?)... But I'm just going to give a fair suggestion to everyone here that you should always speak with an open mind and look at facts before you spout garbage.

A couple of people come to mind, but to avoid defensive responses and a flame war, I just won't mention who. You guys do realize that it's this very ignorance that allow things to get as bad as they are. The whole Palestine and Israel is just example.

The issue amongst these people is VERY complex. You really would have to read about the history of Palestine and Israel to get a  base to even begin to comprehend things. It gets even more complex with other countries involvement in this whole skirmish.

This feud did not just recently begin if that is what some people believe. It's a well known fact that Israel has broken many international laws and have not been penalized in anyway yet at all. You got to understand that the top dog in this whole thing is Israel. Palestine, militarily does NOT compare at all. Is suicide bombing of public places in Israel wrong? Yes, it most definately is. However, I don't think it's fair for anyone to sit here and judge these people that are clearly being suppressed in more ways then one. But hey, "They attack our public so we have to protect ourselves". It's an endless card that will be played time and time again and the problem will not be solved.

The news media networks in the United States is absolutely terrible. Seriously, just analyze the small things and you'll get the bigger picture of what they're promoting. A good example that anyone of us can do is just listen to the choice of words used, the tone, the imagery, and the conviently left out details. You guys should all take a media course once in your life, it would improve your awareness.

I'll try and get some information for you guys so you can have a better understanding of things. To really form a fair opinion on things, you got to look at all the details and facts. Don't just form an opinion on something without taking as much issues as you can into consideration.

I'm almost sure none of us can relate to the hardships that is happening everyday there. The least we can do is try are best to understand the situation without ridiculing it.

KK, Doktormartini, you do have some good points sometimes. But you have to understand that your strong opinions are not viewed the same in other people's eyes and can not be forced upon anyone. The best you can do is try to point out examples as to why you feel the way you do openly. No matter how credible you are, people tend to ignore opinions that are too one sided.

Hopefully an agreement will be made so this suffering can just stop. The only reason I side with Palestine is because the land distribution issue will forever be a problem and both sides will claim the lands. Israel is really the top dog here, as I said. They have the ability to get so much outside help and are far superior when it comes to political influence as well.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. If a country does not have the means to defend themselves. There will always be groups formed to do just that, try and defend their country. The problem is Palestine will never compare to Israel militarily so terrorism will be there ONLY option (not that it is right or anything).