Religion ron paul raises 3.5 million in less than a day (Read 4699 times)

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great work guys kk4 in steel out

glad that's what you chose
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Why complain about that in this topic? Go find some other place!
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I don't have the time to read any of the replies, but that guy fawkes/v for vendetta shit is hilarious (I haven't seen any ron paul advertisements!) when coupled with him raising 3.5 million. just holy shit wow
continuation: yeah, it's pretty amazing how people can be tricked into supporting something like this. like don't they even feel the need to look into this guy, or is a spectacle like TAKE BACK WHAT YOU DESERVE//RETURN TO GREATNESS seriously enough to get people to support shit nowadays. then again, it's been that way in America for a while hasn't it. hell that's pretty much all Atlas Shrugged is, it tricks people into believing they deserve more than what they've got, and the answer to this is fuck everyone who's not me

oh & good that steel's banned, he's been making a lot of bad posts recently and he needs to stop coming here for a little while (no lets just let him make another account)
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Again, I only reluctantly, and perhaps temporarily, support Ron Paul. And by support, I mean "hypothetically vote for". I have not put any money down this early into the election. Still, I think this paranoid, delusional, religious and conspiracist politician is the current best candidate.

Notwithstanding that both of the major parties, the only ones running candidates at this point, have snubbed my state (Florida), the Republicans slightly less so, Ron Paul, for better or worse, happens to be the most compatible with my politics. This does not mean that my beliefs are anywhere near his; but that is almost given, considering that every single candidate also happens to believe in the superstitions of Middle-Eastern goatherders.

Indeed, the whole "libertarian movement" consists of wildly disparate ideological bases with similar conclusions on governance. Randian, Jeffersonian, Austrian, Chicagoean, Christian and pragmatic bases co-exist, sometimes bitterly, but peacefully enough to maintain their mutual self-interest in obtaining and maintaining personal freedoms. Indeed, it is how I, a caustic skeptic and anti-racist can be allied politically with KK4, a self-admitted 9/11 denier who has been considered by members of this forum to be a borderline anti-Semite.

Apparently, a big issue is that Ron Paul is SO far out of the political mainstream, that it could have fallout in the international community. Admittedly, while many international NGOs have noble goals, the political structure of the world is rapidly moving away from the post-war status quo. Indeed, it is nearly unprecedented that organizations like the UN have lasted this long. Withdrawal would be survivable, if not inevitable and necessary considering the possible risks of international law infringing on personal freedoms (you have international organizations to thank for the drug war).

Sorry for taking so long to respond. And remember that we can't have a revolution without dancing.
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Again, I only reluctantly, and perhaps temporarily, support Ron Paul. And by support, I mean "hypothetically vote for". I have not put any money down this early into the election. Still, I think this paranoid, delusional, religious and conspiracist politician is the current best candidate.
[...]
Basically, all your post says is "I know he's crazy, but I'm still gonna vote for him". What about the things I mentioned? What about the fact he wants to withdraw from the most important international relations? You stand behind that, you say, but for what reason?

EDIT: and I must add that I really want to know. This isn't false interest. I see that there are a lot of Ron Paul supporters on the Internet, for some reason. I've not heard a single one of them actually state solid reasons for supporting him and his viewpoints. All they ever say is "other candidates don't care about the constitution" and stuff like that. It's like they don't even have a reason to support him other than the fact he's apparently COOL.
Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 07:33:57 am by Dada
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I think steel mentioned once that Ron Paul's support is largely founded upon single issue voters and misinformation. When the voters hear how vocally he advocates FREEDOM! AND THE CONSTITUTION! or some other issue close to them, they give him their support without fully knowing what else would follow his election - and when they do, denial hits in.

Of course this can't possibly account for the sometimes dumbfounding Ron-love we each have once borne witness to.
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I have never seen a single Paul supporter who actually has a reason to support him. All I ever hear is "well he's better than the other candidates." The only possible exception is KK4, but he's a racist and former Nazi so he doesn't exactly count.
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It would make sense that it's due to single issue voters, actually. How many people haven't stated their approval by saying that "if you disagree with Dr. Paul, you are against the constitution"?

I mean, it's not like anyone's going to explain to me in detail why on earth you'd want to pull out of the UN.
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Since I don't count I suppose that I can't tell you that I support Ron Paul because:
- He supports sound fiscal policy, ending deficit spending by the government, a return to a gold standard (gold is at 831.90 as of writing this, and the value of the dollar has plunged) controlling the money supply and returning to a free-market system.
- He wants to abolish the Federal Reserve Banking system, the IRS and income tax (Because there is no mandate for the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank or a Federal level income tax in the constitution.)
- He advocates smaller government, eliminating superfluous government agencies which will decrease government spending, and lighten the tax burden
- Advocates a non-interventionist foreign policy. No more Imperial wars and no more "peace keeping" or meddling in the affairs of Foreign nations.
- Adherence to the constitution. All of it, not just the parts most people think are neat
- Ending the drug war, which is a massive waste of time and money
- Ending the war on terror (same reason as above)
- Advocates National Sovereignty, keeping the power of the government in the hands of the people where it belongs and not international organizations such as the UN, NAFTA or WTO.

I could go on, but the general consensus seems my opinion doesn't matter. If you'd like me to go more into my points I will be glad to, but don't expect an immediate response. 
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- He supports sound fiscal policy, ending deficit spending by the government
- He advocates smaller government, eliminating superfluous government agencies which will decrease government spending, and lighten the tax burden
- Advocates a non-interventionist foreign policy. No more Imperial wars and no more "peace keeping" or meddling in the affairs of Foreign nations.
- Ending the drug war, which is a massive waste of time and money
- Ending the war on terror (same reason as above)
- Advocates National Sovereignty, keeping the power of the government in the hands of the people
Omeg: these are the reasons why people want to vote for Ron Paul.. because this is all they hear and they dont listen to the rest of the horrible shit he says. Some of his base ideas are really good and stuff that I personally believe should happen (ala all of the above) but his other baggage is just too much.
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Well Washcycle, to quote Ron Paul "[He] may have flaws, but the message doesn't." So I can support a man who may have flaws but espouses things that I believe in and quite possibly fail, or I could support someone else whom I don't believe has my best interests in mind because the general consensus is that they've got a better shot at winning. Personally, I would rather back a person whom I believe in who may not have a shot in hell than betray my convictions and support someone just because they've got a better chance of winning.
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you completely misinterperated my point

what I was saying was that at first look it looks like Ron Paul is a good guy supporting some policies that are VERY GOOD for america

but then when you read more it is revolting and you feel duped
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Quote
Basically, all your post says is "I know he's crazy, but I'm still gonna vote for him". What about the things I mentioned? What about the fact he wants to withdraw from the most important international relations? You stand behind that, you say, but for what reason?

EDIT: and I must add that I really want to know. This isn't false interest. I see that there are a lot of Ron Paul supporters on the Internet, for some reason. I've not heard a single one of them actually state solid reasons for supporting him and his viewpoints. All they ever say is "other candidates don't care about the constitution" and stuff like that. It's like they don't even have a reason to support him other than the fact he's apparently COOL.

Let see if I can give you a quick answer.

Several of the international organizations we belong too, especially the UN and NATO, have an annoying habit of dragging the U.S. into military conflicts it could otherwise avoid.  We have too many troops in too many places of the world, and getting into conflicts we don't belong it just ends up getting our soldiers killed an costing us money we don't currently have.  And while it may improve our relations with some UN/NATO members, it likely generates a lot of ire with the various 3rd world nations we end up "peacekeeping"/occupying/bombing.  If we need to group together with other nations for defense we can do it on an as needed basis, we do not need to belong to these types of organizations.

As for trade treaties and trade organizations such as WTO or NAFTA, I have nothing against them in particular, but I also don't see the need for them.  We can engage in free and open trade without such agreements.

Where Ron Paul really shines is that he seems to be the only one who recognizes that we need to stop manipulating the affairs of other nations through force of arms, arming dissidents, or otherwise trying to occupying or aid in overthrowing the governments of other countries.  As part of the "War on Terror", we have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and are actively discussing military action against Iran.  And yet, the regimes of all three nations came to power with the aid of the U.S.  So, essentially, every "front" in the "War on Terror" has been against a regime that is essentially a past U.S. foreign policy mistake.  Ron Paul has recognized this pattern and wants to end this type of foreign policy.

And of course there is the war in Iraq, which Ron Paul has opposed from the beginning(when others like Hillary went ahead and authorized the use of force), and which he is promising to promptly remove us from if we are president.  This war has caused us nothing but problems, and the sooner we get out of there, the better.  And because Ron Paul stood up against the war from the beginning, and did not cave to political pressure,  it is likely he will stand by his promise.

Domestically, we have suffered a huge loss of civil liberties in past 7 years do to bills like the USA Patriot Acts, Military Commissions Act, the Free-America acts, etc.  These bills allows for general warrants, warrantless wiretapping, searching the property of citizens without informing them, suspension of habeas corpus for "enemy combatants", the waving of Geneva convention rights for "enemy combatants", and other egregious violations of peoples civil liberties.  These types of laws are serious problems and need to be done away with as soon as possible.  And again, Ron Paul has voted against these bills and wants to do away with them.

Economically, our country has suffered from two chronic economic problems that have been ignored and allowed to worsen, the devaluation of our currency and an accumulation of a multi-trillion debt.  Steady inflation has reduced the value of the U.S. dollar to less than 4% of its 1913 value over the course of the century, and we have a 9 trillion dollar debt that is now increasing by over a half-trillion dollars annually, no thanks to politicians who have ignored the problem for decades.  These problems WILL get us into serious trouble eventually, and we can either fix them now under controlled circumstances are wait until they get so far out of hand we will be forced to deal with them.  I prefer to fix them now instead of later, and I want somebody who is willing to do that.  Again, this would be Ron Paul.

Ok, that wasn't a very quick answer, but hopefully it gives you a feel for why a lot of people(including myself) are backing this guy.
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hey maybe free trade will save me from the 27 metric tons of lead that's probably in the food I'm eating right now and was prepared by a blind deaf Filipino child with deluxe super-size Action Man figures for arms

Edit: Also I thought this guy was pretty obsolete now that everybody's like hey maybe Patriot Act wasn't such a hot idea and every Republican is getting arrested for worshipping gay satanic monkeys who evolved from gay satanic people so everyone's like 'around Republicans never relax"

But still at the same time most of the crap that's going on you can blame on Bush/Cheney being shitheads

Edit: Also I say the answer is to vote for someone who isn't running - like just someone get millions of people to vote for Colin Mochrie (I know he's a Canadian citizen but who cares) and then he wins and we totally screw over those guys with their CAMPAIGNS and PLATFORMS and PARTY AFFILIATIONS we can be like yeah I voted FUNNY IMPROV COMIC (seriously though wouldn't it be great if we just voted for whoever we wanted and they HAD to be president if they won like COME ON DOWN (lol Price is Right))
Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 08:39:37 pm by Ragnar
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He wants us to leave the UN? Really? The United Nations? The one whose headquarters is located in New York City? In the United States? Boy, wow. Kicking all those other folks out would certainly improve international relations and would only serve to endear the United States to the rest of the world, right? Right?

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and other egregious violations of peoples civil liberties.

So I take it Ron Paul is also crusading against a lot of the decisions made by the Burger Court, right?
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i remember i was watching fox news once and someone came on and said the UN isn't in the US's best interests as every country gets an equal vote, even though america contributes way more to the UN.

it's for moments like those that i watch fox news
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Let see if I can give you a quick answer.

Several of the international organizations we belong too, especially the UN and NATO, have an annoying habit of dragging the U.S. into military conflicts it could otherwise avoid.  We have too many troops in too many places of the world, and getting into conflicts we don't belong it just ends up getting our soldiers killed an costing us money we don't currently have.  And while it may improve our relations with some UN/NATO members, it likely generates a lot of ire with the various 3rd world nations we end up "peacekeeping"/occupying/bombing.  If we need to group together with other nations for defense we can do it on an as needed basis, we do not need to belong to these types of organizations.

As for trade treaties and trade organizations such as WTO or NAFTA, I have nothing against them in particular, but I also don't see the need for them.  We can engage in free and open trade without such agreements.

Where Ron Paul really shines is that he seems to be the only one who recognizes that we need to stop manipulating the affairs of other nations through force of arms, arming dissidents, or otherwise trying to occupying or aid in overthrowing the governments of other countries.  As part of the "War on Terror", we have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and are actively discussing military action against Iran.  And yet, the regimes of all three nations came to power with the aid of the U.S.  So, essentially, every "front" in the "War on Terror" has been against a regime that is essentially a past U.S. foreign policy mistake.  Ron Paul has recognized this pattern and wants to end this type of foreign policy.

And of course there is the war in Iraq, which Ron Paul has opposed from the beginning(when others like Hillary went ahead and authorized the use of force), and which he is promising to promptly remove us from if we are president.  This war has caused us nothing but problems, and the sooner we get out of there, the better.  And because Ron Paul stood up against the war from the beginning, and did not cave to political pressure,  it is likely he will stand by his promise.

Domestically, we have suffered a huge loss of civil liberties in past 7 years do to bills like the USA Patriot Acts, Military Commissions Act, the Free-America acts, etc.  These bills allows for general warrants, warrantless wiretapping, searching the property of citizens without informing them, suspension of habeas corpus for "enemy combatants", the waving of Geneva convention rights for "enemy combatants", and other egregious violations of peoples civil liberties.  These types of laws are serious problems and need to be done away with as soon as possible.  And again, Ron Paul has voted against these bills and wants to do away with them.

Economically, our country has suffered from two chronic economic problems that have been ignored and allowed to worsen, the devaluation of our currency and an accumulation of a multi-trillion debt.  Steady inflation has reduced the value of the U.S. dollar to less than 4% of its 1913 value over the course of the century, and we have a 9 trillion dollar debt that is now increasing by over a half-trillion dollars annually, no thanks to politicians who have ignored the problem for decades.  These problems WILL get us into serious trouble eventually, and we can either fix them now under controlled circumstances are wait until they get so far out of hand we will be forced to deal with them.  I prefer to fix them now instead of later, and I want somebody who is willing to do that.  Again, this would be Ron Paul.

Ok, that wasn't a very quick answer, but hopefully it gives you a feel for why a lot of people(including myself) are backing this guy.


he also wants to get rid of the fda, the irs and he has spoken many times in the past about privatizing education, making healthcare even more privatized, and is a known racist (fleet footed, the blacks, let's kick all those goddamn mexicans out i don't care if 5% die etc)

But i guess since he wants to get rid of the patriot act and get us out of iraq (hint: Obama and the awful hilary clinton want to as well and aren't fucking crazy and don't think we should destroy any chance for the poor in this country to have meaningful education or healthcare.)

But go ahead and spout off about civil liberties and how he will tape the constitution back together when the man will be taking REAL civil liberties away: People's ability to live a decent life.

The middle and upper class.... ron paul's friends.
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he also wants to get rid of the fda


This alone is enough for me to not vote for him.
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he also wants to get rid of the fda, the irs and he has spoken many times in the past about privatizing education, making healthcare even more privatized, and is a known racist (fleet footed, the blacks, let's kick all those goddamn mexicans out i don't care if 5% die etc)

Well, except for the racist part, this is true, but for good reasons:

FDA:  FDA regulations prevent new drugs and medical devices from entering the market for years at a time, and at costs in the hundreds of millions.  In the case of drugs or medical devices needed to treat life threatening conditions, many people with life threatening conditions have died waiting for their treatment to receive FDA approval.  The regulations also act as a market entry barrier discourages new competitors from entering the market.  The high complaince cost and lack of competition are partly to blame for the astronomical cost of drugs and healthcare coverage.  And to add insult to injury, many drugs with harmful effects still make it to market despite all these sacrifices made to ensure there safety.

It is possible that through a combination of voluntary complaince measures, consumer information services, liability, and market competition that drug safety could still be ensured but without the huge cost, delays in life saving treatments and other problems that the FDA causes.

IRS:  Ron Paul wants to reduce the size and scale of the government to the point were Federal Income taxes are no longer necessary to maintain it.  Once this occurs, the IRS can go.

Healthcare:  While there has been a push of place the Federal government in control of funding healthcare, many of us would like to see the Federal government out of healthcare.  If anything, the Federal government has proven itself completely incompetent in matters of financing, wallowing in debt and unable to properly fund all of its current responsibilites.  That last thing we need is something as critical as our health dependent on the government's ability to properly finance its obligations.  Furthermore, one of the key problems with our health care system is rising health care cost.  A universal payer system will create a buffer in which our tax money is first pooled together for all Federal expenses and then distributed back to the health care system, which will effectively hide the cost from the taxpayer(especially because it is likely to be covered with borrowed money) but has no guarantee in actually reducing the cost or fixing the problem.

Rather, what we should do is put health care money back in the hands of individual people.  Right now, the money used to pay for health care is twice removed from their control.  There health care is payed for by their insurance company, which is in turn payed for by their employer, by money would otherwise be received by and under direct  control of the individual.  The status quo is maintained because of tax benefits that can only be obtained through employer health coverage and the fact that many employers of forced to provide HMO coverage thansk to Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973.  Note that there has been a steady rise in health care prices since the passage of the HMO Act and the establishment of our current healthcare structure, so changing these circumstance might actually result in lower health care cost.  Ways to circumvent this situation include providing the same tax benefits to employes who personally pay for their health care and the establishment of Health Savings Accounts as an alternative to HMOs.

Racism:  Ron Paul is not a racist as far as I know.  He is construed to be a racist by some by taking individual events or positions well out of context.

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But i guess since he wants to get rid of the patriot act and get us out of iraq (hint: Obama and the awful hilary clinton want to as well and aren't fucking crazy and don't think we should destroy any chance for the poor in this country to have meaningful education or healthcare.)

Well lets see:

Obama:  Obama might actually achieve one or both of these goals.  However, I am uncertain if I will actually stand against these because he was not in Congress when the original Patriot Acts was passed, nor was he in Congress when Congress authorized military action in Iraq.  Furthermore, he did reauthorize the Patriot Act in 2006. 

Clinton:  She was in office during the original Patriot Act and Iraqi war authorization, so I know EXACTLY where she stands:  Voted to Authorize the War in Iraq, Voted on the Original Patriot Acts, and Voted to Reauthorize the Patriot Act in 2006.  And I have yet to see her take a strong position against the Patriot Act in her campaign, and her position on Iraq is unclear.  So no, she is not an option for ending things like the Patriot Act.

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But go ahead and spout off about civil liberties and how he will tape the constitution back together when the man will be taking REAL civil liberties away: People's ability to live a decent life.

I haven't even mentioned the War on Drugs, Asset Forfeiture, or the Kelo decision yet.  That fact is, Paul will not be taking away any civil liberties, and I think our lives will be much better when he gets rid of all these civil liberty violations.
Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 06:02:43 pm by Phanixis
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can you guys provide links / sources on the following:

Ron Paul wanting to get rid of the IRS
Ron Paul wanting to remove the FDA because we will self correct the market
Ron Paul being racist

basically links/sources on all the bad things. I know he is a terrible canidate but UHHH i havent seen any DIRECT 100% GUARENTEED TROOTH sources on that shit. Espically the reason he wants to remove the FDA and that its okay cause we'll self correct.