That was pretty distasteful even for sarcasm Trujin.

Also this was apparently in a Finnish newspaper as well and I'm told she was with her boyfriend (the "unrelated man" the article speaks of) at the moment of the rape. Seven men walked up to the two and gang-raped them both. Now I don't have any links to stories with this little factoid but if it's indeed true then at least she wasn't lashed and jailed for "violating segregation laws" with men who forced themselves upon her (though it also entails another rape victim which is pretty bad.)

I don't know anything about the law in Saudi Arabia, or the government, so I'm not going to say anything about it.

This is just an utterly awful collection of events. Men in power beating the fuck out of a woman in every way they possibly can. That's all I really see here, an incredible amount of abuse directed at one woman born out of inadequacy, jealousy and deplorable, primal aggression. I don't even know what to say here. I don't want to go on some tirade like, "OOOH FUCKING I HOPE SOMEONE GETS THEIR DICK CHOPPED OFF", because it doesn't help anything. All I can do is sit here and fume at a keyboard. 

Also the way a couple of you guys responded to this was pretty gross.


edit: also i'm getting pretty sick of these "LOOK ANOTHER GROSS INJUSTICE" topics.

um...so this title is misleading...she is not getting punished for being raped. She got punished for being with a man she had no buissness being with?

You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE

You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE

I don't get what you're trying to say - that people shouldn't disagree with a culture that they are not a part of, or that there's no point in saying how terrible it is because it won't change anything?

I hope I am wrong because I really would not like to think that you think either of those things.

Being an advocator of equal rights, I find this sort of thing sickening - a victim is a victim, though breaking the state law so recklessly is bound to have repercussions.  I just think the whole thing is out of proportion to the crime.  Why not lash the men for also being in the car with an unrelated woman?  How come there were seven rapists and only four kidnap convictions?  Questions I would like answered.

I don't get what you're trying to say - that people shouldn't disagree with a culture that they are not a part of, or that there's no point in saying how terrible it is because it won't change anything?

I hope I am wrong because I really would not like to think that you think either of those things.

Being an advocator of equal rights, I find this sort of thing sickening - a victim is a victim, though breaking the state law so recklessly is bound to have repercussions.  I just think the whole thing is out of proportion to the crime.  Why not lash the men for also being in the car with an unrelated woman?  How come there were seven rapists and only four kidnap convictions?  Questions I would like answered.

No, I'm saying that if you are going to complain, then don't complain from a detached, western view based solely on your socialization rather than an objective look at the logic here.

Do I agree with the punishment? No. However, the point is, she broke the law. The law, from my western point of view, is a terrible and unequal one but it is a law in that country and that is the way it is going to be handled. I mentioned the "it won't change anything" because many of the people in this topic have attacked this with some degree of self-possession as if their western opinions are, indeed, the only correct ones. Had they said, "I believe this is a gross misinterpretation of Sharia law," then I would not have said anything. However this topic here is a question of justice, which is a very malleable and interpretative term, though some of the people in this topic don't seem to understand that and it makes me angry.

I mad the comment about research because even in the basic facts this whole article is very sparse. It is also clouded in western bias. It may appear that I am being biased myself and saying all THE WESTERN WORLD SUCKS, but I'm not. However, I will not say LOL THE WESTERN WORLD THAT PRIDES ITSELF ON TECHNOLOGY AND MONEY AND THINKS EDUCATION IS ONLY A TOOL TO GET MORE MONEY is perfect either.

The point is, if we are going to criticize this, we need to criticize it from an unbiased perspective, or at least one from which we realize that our opinions are, indeed, opinions.

Piracy?

The difference in that case is the ability and willingness of the government to punish offenders.

thanks for the clarification.  I do understand what you are saying, but the likelihood is that the majority of the people who read this will have an immediate adverse reaction either through disagreeing with law interpretation or simply because they find it horrid from their point of view.  Most people state opinion as fact in most things anyway, especially on things they feel strongly about.

Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.

Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.

Except she wasn't jailed for being raped.

Well, we're upset because it's plain inhumane.

Lashed and jailed because she was a victim of a rape??  I know that moral absolutism doesn't exist, but morality does transcend the individual - punishing a victim because he/she is a victim is downright immoral no matter how you culture it.

she wasn't punished because she was the victim, she was punished because she broke the law herself.  It could be argued that she wouldn't have been attacked if she had obeyed the law (although of course this is no guarantee and never will be)

Ok, fine, they have different cultures and shit, but does that mean we CAN'T be disgusted? 200 lashes is terrible!

Ridiculous country. No country is perfect, but a lot of them are a lot fucking better than this.

Ok, fine, they have different cultures and shit, but does that mean we CAN'T be disgusted? 200 lashes is terrible!

Ridiculous country. No country is perfect, but a lot of them are a lot fucking better than this.

Oh, I never said anything about you can't be disgusted, I just said that don't be disgusted because you think she is being jailed for being raped, and don't be disgusted and assume that there is something objectively wrong with the country.

You can complain all you want, those are the laws of the country. OH MAN SAUDI ARABIA IS SO BACKWARDS, yeah, maybe, from our point of view, but to the lawmakers there, they are in the right. I'm not sure if Trujin was really being sarcastic or not, but it is true. They live in that country, and no matter how backwards the laws appear to be, they are still the laws of a sovereign country.

Now then, people can jump on me for being insensitive or read whatever it is they want into my message and call me a sexist prick, but I don't really care. The point is, this is Saudi Arabia and they have a culture like this. I'm not saying LOL BE TOLERANT OF OTHER VIEWS, but you can't really judge them based on western logic, so you people really should cut down with the OH MAN THAT IS TERRIBLE shit, because maybe it is, but it doesn't matter since it isn't going to change. What do you all propose to do about it anyway? OH MAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WE NEED TO INVADE THE COUNTRY. We saw how well that worked in Iraq. Anything short of that is pretty much the western world telling the eastern world how to do things and that doesn't really work because the western world has this almighty arrogance behind it that thinks there is only one way to do things and the rest of the world is barbaric.

About the only sensible response to this topic is from WC. If you people actually research things a bit more than just what is throwin at you in the news, maybe you'd have more informed views than LOL TERRIBLE

It seems like what you're saying is that depending on where you are, abusing someone can be either right or wrong. You might think that it's wrong, but that doesn't mean you should go around saying it's wrong when people who think it is right do it? Western arrogance doesn't really have much to do with this. A woman gets raped and is then punished, in an utterly humiliating and painful way, for being in the car with an unrelated male relative. I mean, first of all the law that she isn't allowed to is so disgusting it makes my head spin - this is not because I am British and therefore I must be thinking, "The way those Islamic states do it is just so WRONG!", it's because I believe this kind of inequality and violence is wrong. That's not attached to anyone else's ideology, it's something I've decided for myself. I realise it's all very complicated and I don't understand the half of it, but I am allowed to be disgusted and be as vocal as I want to be about it She just got raped by a gang and then, instead of getting sympathy, she got a whole bucketload more trauma because she broke some awful law putting herself in the situation! The point that she wouldn't have gotten raped if she wasn't in the car is very similar to she wanted to be raped because she was wearing revealing clothing (you didn't say this i read it mentioned by someone else).

It's a very different culture than the west, yeah, but so what? It's not like they are a different species, and it seems like that's what you are implying. That they couldn't possibly understand that what they are doing is just so wrong. They've got a very strong religious ideology and it determines their laws, but so did this part of the world until the people who realised how fucked up it was managed through many failed attempts and broken victories to get us to a better place, a place which is still pretty shitty a lot of the time. I don't think the kind of complacency you're advocating is really worth anything.

As for what I think shoudl be done, well christ I just don't know! I don't know of any historical precedent for the kind of ubiquitous, invasive worldwide culture clash the muslim world is having with the west just now, I mean not on this huge scale, so I can't just throw out some crazy scheme. I wouldn't know where to begin. It's too big for me right now, I don't know nearly enough about well Islam for a start,

But as far as this topic goes, which like I said I don't really feel is a very good one, I don't really see how what you are saying helps anything. You're just saying it's different what can you do? Here, it doesn't make a difference but if you start adopting that kind of attitude out in the real world where it actually could make a difference and help save someone from a lot of pain (hoho so arrogant) then it could be pretty important! If I was in any position to, I would make sure I done everything I could to help this situation get better for everyone and yeah I could only use my own concepts of right and wrong to do so, but I do believe them to be right and that isn't going to change just because they see things differently.

Oh, I never said anything about you can't be disgusted, I just said that don't be disgusted because you think she is being jailed for being raped, and don't be disgusted and assume that there is something objectively wrong with the country.

Like.. they still give people 200 lashes? For being in a stranger's car? I think that's something objectively wrong with the country. What do child rapists get out of interest?

And Dapper thanks, but I think we've covered that in the last page of replies.

I think this kind of thing happens because some people are just cruel and want an excuse to commit their atrocities, and then they invent crazy laws just so they can have sexual pleasure from lashing people and putting people in prisons.

I think this kind of thing happens because some people are just cruel and want an excuse to commit their atrocities, and then they invent crazy laws just so they can have sexual pleasure from lashing people and putting people in prisons.

you have the whole of humanity down to a tee, my friend