Hmmm Lakota Indians Secede from the US (Read 1302 times)

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So, what do you think they will do if this goes through and the US cuts off all power and other infrastructures that they have been taking for granted?
Honestly, the Lakota people are probably living shithole reserves (reservations) that doesn't have much (if any) infrastructure to speak of. The way that many Native American tribes in the US and Canada live is essentially the same as people in the 3rd World. Given the terrible life expectancy and other problems of this tribe is facing, I doubt that they have much to lose by doing this.

My biggest question is how they'll protect their new nation.  A country with its own sovereignty follows it's own laws and unless the U.S. signs some sort of protection treaty (which I doubt considering these guys want NOTHING to do with the U.S.) then the country is perfectly open to raids from anyone who's armed enough to attack.
Yeah, except, any invaders would have to first fly over the US to get to them. And, you know, I don't see the US allowing foreign militaries to fly over their airspace.

I can't see how these will be fixed by being their own country.  Health is terrible?  Let's leave and not have access to US hospitals and doctors...
97% of the people live below the poverty line. Where the hell are they going to get the money to pay for doctors?
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This is a brilliant gamble move.

See, the US G'vt will step in, and make their situation a million times better since all these bad things will be hella blown out of proportion.

Then we'll go "Ya, we're pretty cool." and be seen as the good guys, yet again...
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If we can work our way around the Geneva Conventions we can work around this.

AHAHAHA I still can't believe they actually think this shit will work, since when has the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT upheld the constitution???
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So basically all the US has to do is ignore their declaration of independence and nothing happens?
A declaration of independence is useless if it isn't supported by a few adjacent or otherwise important nations. They're trying to make a mini state in America, but the US are never going to recognize it.
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this is pretty hilarious and i can't believe so many of you actually think this is some big news.

The United States government is totally going to let a segment of the population take over a sovereign part of our country INSIDE our borders. While I feel awful for the abject poverty many native americans live in these areas it is more because of a desire to remain close to their land and their archaic way of life. This isn't about socio-economic problems like other minorities face below the poverty line, it is instead something almost as bad: a general malaise and dissatisfaction in their people which means that industry doesn't generate and that in turn is a vicious cycle.
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97% of the people live below the poverty line. Where the hell are they going to get the money to pay for doctors?

At the same time, how is removing yourself from the rest of the country and all of their doctors going to help that either?

percentage is a funny thing...you see, when America has 300 million people, and lets say 10% die of cancer...it's a lot of people, but when you have a population of 500...and 10% die of cancer...its really an illusion, especialy when you don't mention your population number.

nothing againts those facts or anything, I'm just pointing it out.


I definitely agree with you here.  I never said those were good statistics by any means, they really aren't.  According to Wikipedia (lol wiki) their numbers are 70,000.  10% of 70,000 is NOTHING like 10% of 300 million.  You have 800% more cases of tuberculosis than the US average?  Maybe it's because you have WAY WAY less people than the US and a lot of you are in the same general area, so diseases can spread easier.  Their numbers are misleading, and even if you take them seriously, they are NOT good reasons to leave the US.

edit:  Also I feel sorry for the people who are Lakota but not tied to the whole independence thing and so when they announced that all Lakotas were leaving the US they were sitting at home watching TV going "...wait what NO I NEVER SAID THAT"
Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 01:43:20 pm by Velfarre
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Honestly, the Lakota people are probably living shithole reserves (reservations) that doesn't have much (if any) infrastructure to speak of. The way that many Native American tribes in the US and Canada live is essentially the same as people in the 3rd World. Given the terrible life expectancy and other problems of this tribe is facing, I doubt that they have much to lose by doing this.

I agree with you for the most part, the list that Velfarre posted said that only 40% of them don't have power.  Having spent the weekend without power (Curse you icestorm  :fogetfu:​), I would still not want to be one of the 60% that loses power.
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God I hope this happens. 
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Man it's bizarre that the mainstream media hasn't even mentioned this. This isn't even page 7  news, which is really just odd to me, since something like this seems like it would actually warrant some attention.

Then again, no one gives a shit about the Indians.

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Man it's bizarre that the mainstream media hasn't even mentioned this. This isn't even page 7  news, which is really just odd to me, since something like this seems like it would actually warrant some attention.

Then again, no one gives a shit about the Indians.

You're acting as if they're the only group of people who want to secede from the US  There are probably two dozen crazy groups who try to get support for stuff like this.
For example:
http://www.independentcalifornia.com/
http://texas.freecountries.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South
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Man it's bizarre that the mainstream media hasn't even mentioned this. This isn't even page 7  news, which is really just odd to me, since something like this seems like it would actually warrant some attention.

Then again, no one gives a shit about the Indians.

Not really, just a bunch of people blowing this out of proportions.

Nothings going to happen.
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I don't understand. They want to preserve their culture... yet blame the US for how shitty they ended up doing? So their solution is renouncing their citizenship and secluding themselves to their own lands? What do they hope to accomplish?
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Why is life so bad for Lakota people?  They've all been U.S. citizens since 1924.  Why is everything shitty for you?
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You're acting as if they're the only group of people who want to secede from the US  There are probably two dozen crazy groups who try to get support for stuff like this.
For example:
http://www.independentcalifornia.com/
http://texas.freecountries.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South

Well, it's just odd that the entire leadership of the Lakota tribe votes to secede from the US and there's no coverage at all, frankly. It's not even mentioned anywhere on the major news sites.

I'd think this story is at least as interesting as 'body found on highway' or 'lady dies after falling out of tree climbing after cat', you know?

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
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Unfortunately I very much doubt that they will be able to go back to they way they were living. But if they can create there own country that runs well then that would be great, although I very much doubt that would happen. What I don't like is how they say America is taking "their children", how exactly? do they mean that kids are going and becoming more integrated with the rest of American culture because they prefer what it has to offer? well then tough luck, its their choice, thats just as bad as religious people trying to stop their children marrying people of anouther/no faith.
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I've been following this since I read about it through SA last week.

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but the individuals who have issued the declaration actually have no authority within the tribal government. This "delegation" is actually a group of citizens who have issued an intent to secede, probably as a cry for help for their community.

I live around several reservations (Tohono O'odam, Pascua Yaqui, Tohono Chul) and they are hands down the poorest places I've ever been. Unfortunately, the US government is both an angel and a devil to these communities. The federal government provides them with enough money to BARELY survive, but not enough to develop the necessary infrastructure for community and economic development. The tribal governments know better than to pull something like this, otherwise their people would starve to death. Even so, I think that a group of organized individuals could do a good job of bringing international attention to this issue.

Why is life so bad for Lakota people?  They've all been U.S. citizens since 1924.  Why is everything shitty for you?

Why are you retarded? There's more to having a secure lifestyle than being a U.S. citizen.

I don't understand. They want to preserve their culture... yet blame the US for how shitty they ended up doing? So their solution is renouncing their citizenship and secluding themselves to their own lands? What do they hope to accomplish?

This isn't a practical measure. It's a symbolic gesture intended to draw attention to the horrible conditions of reservation life. There's an absurd amount of racism and ignorance towards Native Americans in the United States, and it doesn't get the media attention it deserves.

PS - everyone who has posted something about how dumb the Lakota are for this event is an asshole and probably racist.
Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 01:00:54 am by PandaBear
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B-but! They can't secede! It's illegal.

 
But seriously, despite the fact that this is a rather BAD IDEA, I doubt it would work....
This is a brilliant gamble move.

See, the US G'vt will step in, and make their situation a million times better since all these bad things will be hella blown out of proportion.

Then we'll go "Ya, we're pretty cool." and be seen as the good guys, yet again...
This is what would be most likely to happen. Except the last part. People are much too cynical to see the U.S. government as "the good guys" nowadays. Threatening secession  seems like it will bring awareness to the conditions the Lakota live in, but actually good through with it would probably be... well, not a very good idea.
Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 01:16:58 am by WunderBread