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Topic: Bobby Fischer dies at 64 (Read 1236 times)

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Lou_Reeds_Tr

#41 January 19, 2008, 01:58:44 am

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dangerousned i hop you get cancer

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HL

#42 January 19, 2008, 02:02:39 am

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as a chess player he was a god, but as a person, he was worse than an insect.

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xanque

#43 January 19, 2008, 02:11:01 am

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How awful for those poor chess players.

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The Ghost

#44 January 19, 2008, 02:16:58 am

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You know, Inri has a SMALL point here. You mentioned timothy mcveigh kills people. You also said I've lost respect for Chris Benoit. That was like the worst comparison ever to make with Bobby Fischer
who hated jews but didn't particularly cross the line of actually killing people. You should stop using the word monster and save it for the big evil doers.

Tee Hee

I'll do everyone a favour and stop posting here.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/967946252/rainfall-the-sojourn

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xanque

#45 January 19, 2008, 02:19:10 am

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Quote from: Macubex on January 19, 2008, 02:16:58 am

I'll do everyone a favour and stop posting here.

Why? You've got the best signature I've ever seen.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#46 January 19, 2008, 02:24:00 am

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Quote from: Macubex on January 19, 2008, 02:16:58 am

You know, Inri has a SMALL point here. You mentioned timothy mcveigh kills people. You also said I've lost respect for Chris Benoit. That was like the worst comparison ever to make with Bobby Fischer
who hated jews but didn't particularly cross the line of actually killing people. You should stop using the word monster and save it for the big evil doers.

Tee Hee

I'll do everyone a favour and stop posting here.

oh for fuck's sake. spreading hate and doing hateful acts are both monstrous. there are fucking degrees (n...no...) but when you actively take a stance of hateful shit, you are a monster. that defines it for me anyways I GUESS WE DIFFER because I think someone actively full of hate is a monster instead of just the acts.

I never called Benoit a monster; he was mentally ill resulting from too many blows to the back of the head. however he did a terrible thing, and doesn't deserve hero worship despite past actions, which was the whole point of the analogy; people who do terrible things (like killing their family or spreading hate) tend to not be worthy of hero worship.

Quote from: Lou_Reeds_Tr on January 19, 2008, 01:58:44 am

dangerousned i hop you get cancer

i have cancer

cancer of the post....

Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 02:27:04 am by dangerousned

brian chemicals

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Lars

#47 January 19, 2008, 03:11:59 am

Fuck off!
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FYI one of the greatest Norwegian writers of all time, and a winner of the nobel prize, was an active nazi during WW2 and even met Hitler in private while Norway was occupied (although the meeting went bad because he was disappointed in Hitler's lack of sophistication or something).

People still look up to him in the field of litterature. He is still an extremely important person in Norwegian litterature.

I don't think the views of single people are enough basis to judge people. There are a lot of fucked up people that achieve great things. If they have fucked up views, then they're not perfect, but there's a reason there's a saying that no one's perfect.

I mean, when I read that Fischer's mom is a Jew, I automatically assume that there's a lot more to him and his anti-semitism than can be written here. That's my natural conclusion. That he has a valid reason somehow for hating Jews. I honestly believe that. And I don't see why people share that view, that as long as people don't act out on their wicked principles, and seem to have some kind of underlying reason for those principles, then they should be judged by their actions and not their principles.

I mean shit, a lot of people drive Fords but Ford wasn't exactly a nice guy. I think Dada's 100% right on this matter; you can absolutely appreciate what a certain person does in a field and idolize him for his innovations and try to follow on his footsteps, no matter what his public opinion is. Or Jimi Hendrix for that matter...

Tbh, this whole topic is an onslaught of political correctness and trying to discredit a person that obviously earned his collars the hard way, because he generalizes a group based obviously on very bad experiences with said group. So what if he's crazy? So what if he lost it? That's not what earned him his fame and that's obviously not what side of him that impacted the world.

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Marcus

#48 January 19, 2008, 03:19:32 am

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Quote

Tbh, this whole topic is an onslaught of political correctness and trying to discredit a person that obviously earned his collars the hard way, because he generalizes a group based obviously on very bad experiences with said group. So what if he's crazy? So what if he lost it? That's not what earned him his fame and that's obviously not what side of him that impacted the world.

The guy's a terrible person. I don't think anyone's trying to discredit him from being an intelligent man and one of the world's best chess players. We're just pointing out that he harbored intense hatred of an entire group of people and was an arrogant jerk of a recluse his entire life which makes him a generally mean spirited nasty guy. On the note of Hitler, he was intelligent, business savvy, and brought an entire country out of a depression...

...the guy's still a sick sonuvabitch and while Germany can owe some of it's history to him the fact remains that you SHOULDN'T follow in his footsteps.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#49 January 19, 2008, 03:27:17 am

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hahaha lars you fucking nut.

I know omeg just said YOU DONT KNOW CHESS and I told him that it was arrogant but it's clear you don't know Bobby Fischer and haven't read anything at all (or you have a ridiculous definition of anti-semitism).

NO ONE doubts that Fischer was anti-semitic. notice that omeg never said anything of the sort either, and he's been defending Fischer. Fischer was CLEARLY antisemitic and saying it's just actions and not principles makes no sense when he's clearly stating his principles by saying shit like "Jews hate elephants because their trunks look uncircumsized". his fucking wikipedia article even puts him in the following categories:

Antisemitism | Holocaust deniers

no one doubts he's antisemitic and saying it's POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is just plain stupid. omeg at the least is arguing it's not that important; you're arguing it's OVEREXAGGERATED, which it clearly isn't when I quoted him saying the things he said.

hey look at this newslink for Bobby Fischer anti-semitism

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/10538/edition_id/201/format/html/displaystory.html

Quote

Ignoring the interviewer's questions about chess, Fischer also claimed that Jews had invented the Holocaust to make money. When the interviewer asked why he was saying such things, noting that Fischer is himself Jewish, the former chess champion said, "Shall we go to the toilets and prove it?"

yeah its just pc thug mentality lars are you retarded? seriously? I mean come on!

your examples are terrible because the question is why you'd view him as a HERO, not whether he was good at it. people drive Fords but few people idolize him. you can be GOOD at something and still be a terrible person not worthy of worship or even respect as a result (although you would respect them in that field).

Quote

I mean, when I read that Fischer's mom is a Jew, I automatically assume that there's a lot more to him and his anti-semitism than can be written here. That's my natural conclusion. That he has a valid reason somehow for hating Jews.

check this out: there's no such thing ever as a valid reason to hate a group of people based on a single non-personality based characteristic (being Jewish, black, gay, whatever) because that is what we call bigotry. funny how that works.

brian chemicals

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xanque

#50 January 19, 2008, 03:40:43 am

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Quote from: Lars on January 19, 2008, 03:11:59 am

FYI one of the greatest Norwegian writers of all time, and a winner of the nobel prize, was an active nazi during WW2 and even met Hitler in private while Norway was occupied (although the meeting went bad because he was disappointed in Hitler's lack of sophistication or something).

People still look up to him in the field of litterature. He is still an extremely important person in Norwegian litterature.

I don't think the views of single people are enough basis to judge people. There are a lot of fucked up people that achieve great things. If they have fucked up views, then they're not perfect, but there's a reason there's a saying that no one's perfect.

I mean, when I read that Fischer's mom is a Jew, I automatically assume that there's a lot more to him and his anti-semitism than can be written here. That's my natural conclusion. That he has a valid reason somehow for hating Jews. I honestly believe that. And I don't see why people share that view, that as long as people don't act out on their wicked principles, and seem to have some kind of underlying reason for those principles, then they should be judged by their actions and not their principles.

I mean shit, a lot of people drive Fords but Ford wasn't exactly a nice guy. I think Dada's 100% right on this matter; you can absolutely appreciate what a certain person does in a field and idolize him for his innovations and try to follow on his footsteps, no matter what his public opinion is. Or Jimi Hendrix for that matter...

Tbh, this whole topic is an onslaught of political correctness and trying to discredit a person that obviously earned his collars the hard way, because he generalizes a group based obviously on very bad experiences with said group. So what if he's crazy? So what if he lost it? That's not what earned him his fame and that's obviously not what side of him that impacted the world.

If the Nazis hadn't done the whole holocaust thing, we wouldn't be where we are today with medical stuff or something. But do we remember the Nazis for that? I don't think so.

You can't justify hatred with innovation, or even tone it down. Read some quotes from this guy about the Jews. He wanted them exterminated. Maybe it's just me, but fucking playing CHESS isn't that great when this guy spoke out against a race of people.

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Marcus

#51 January 19, 2008, 03:51:30 am

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I knew this dude was an anti-Semite but I had absolutely no idea his comments bordered on being ridiculously insane. I don't know if the elephant trunk comment was true or not but if I heard someone say that I'd slap them right on the spot.

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The Ghost

#52 January 19, 2008, 03:59:58 am

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Quote from: Macubex on January 19, 2008, 12:05:42 am

I hope this doesn't turn into a debate of how much of a monster he was.

You are right Dangerman, I'm not arguing that fact. I'm just trying to look at the bright side I guess since he croaked and all. I actually wanted to hear some more chess facts and so on and sort of hear about chess related things. I'm not even the biggest fan of chess but I rather hear about the game in a topic about one of the best chess players out there then how much of a bigot he is.

But you weren't wrong about pointing it out and elaborating more on it. I guess there is no one else to blame but Bobby Fischer himself for soiling his reputation.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/967946252/rainfall-the-sojourn

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Shepperd

#53 January 19, 2008, 04:00:20 am

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@Dada

"Most of the people I admire, they usually smell funny and don't get out much. It's true. Most of them are either dead or not feeling well." -Tom Waits

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crone_lover720

#54 January 19, 2008, 04:02:20 am

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what a horrible topic!!

I did think dada's wording in his original post was kind of weird and I probably would have said something about it if someone else hadn't, but seriously I have no idea where the hell you guys went with that

is it not ok to call him a CHESS HERO, to say this guy's my hero........in chess. guys did you know George Patton is often regarded as an American war hero?

Quote from: George Patton

My personal opinion is that no people could have sunk to the level of degradation [the Jews] have reached in the short space of four years.

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Shepperd

#55 January 19, 2008, 04:19:26 am

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ok, I've been reading the post and jesus christ most of you guys are pretty stupid.
I'm with Dada.
His admiration is LIMITED to his chess ability and probably there's also an "atraction" in his contrasting geniality vs anti-semitic character.
The admiration has nothing to do with an attachment to Fischer's believes.
It's like you dig X-games, and this dude does the motherfucking most amazing stunt ever, but when you meet him in person he's the biggest fucking asshole around. YOU STILL DON'T STOP ADMIRING THE STUNT, unless you are so fucking emotionally attached that you block the amazement for the stunt because stupid fucking cunt did it.
I know shit about chess. But I know about sport, and Fischer is probably what Maradona is to football.
Maradona is a legend, and he cheated with his hand to make a goal at england (the goal is called THE HAND OF GOD). He cheated, he took drugs, he likes castro, che, etc, says a lot of stupid shit, but he's still a legend and everybody admires him.
Sure, Fischer is more rad in his mind. If I appreciate chess, I'd prolly admire him as well, now he's an anti-semite you say? I don't share that! Should I get pissed because of that? To say he's the worst of the worst?
Why should I? I don't give a damn about his believes, he's just an individual with loony believes and is not influential enough.
Now chess? At that yes he is the biggest influence

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#56 January 19, 2008, 04:22:06 am

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yeah but patton is just like FUCK EVEROYNE I AHTE EVERYONE GO THROUGHT HE CENTER KILL KRAUTS its okay

I also can't honestly say I could say someone was a hero if he was completely just out of line socially. I could say I respected his chess, or even that I would want to learn for it, but to me the title of hero is not something I'd apply to someone I only respected for one characteristic or ability.

that and Fischer was an extraordinarily controversial figure in chess; he frequently denigrated the official games and said they were set up in advance, was kind of an ass to his fellow players, and engaged in BLACK MARKET CHESS GAMES. omeg should have realized he was opening a can of worms when he idolized the guy, even as a chess hero.

Che Guevara said a lot of things I agreed with but he also executed a lot of people and I can't rightfully idealize him either. it just strikes me as necessary that any topic on Fischer's death should make mention of his rather foul social history, and so while respecting him as a hero in chess is okay, omeg didn't exactly write that, which prompted my response.

unlike Macubex I also don't believe this topic would have engendered conversation about chess were we to never mention Fischer's anti-semitism, but I do think it raises a point that most people are arguing now; whether someone's political beliefs affect the perception of their work.

for me, it always has, and I guess that's why I am posting so much???????

also cancer of post

brian chemicals

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ImmortalDreamer

#57 January 19, 2008, 05:37:02 am

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+1 to the topics ruined by Steel.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#58 January 19, 2008, 05:47:45 am

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oh shut up. seriously, you think I ruined a topic because I pointed out the OP was purposefully ignoring blatantly anti-semitic quotes that everyone who was not interested in chess would most likely be interested to know?

rip anti-semite the jews cant get you in heaven..........STEEL RUINED YOUR TOPIC BY POINTING OUT YOU WERE KIND OF A DICK.

brian chemicals

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NightBlade

#59 January 19, 2008, 05:51:15 am

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If our tiny minds cannot begin to comprehend the impact of this "hero's" impact on the world, I fail to see why you would share this little tidbit with the good people of the general forums.

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crone_lover720

#60 January 19, 2008, 05:57:39 am

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man, ImmortalDreamer really does the best job of making you look awesome ned. I kind of wish he hated me

anyway I think patton's a lot worse than that but I got all my info on the matter from like the author of bloodlines or something so I don't know

edit: yeah he hated jews in particular, I'm not sure if he didn't keep his opinions to himself most of the time though. I think that one was in a letter to his wife

Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 06:11:03 am by Render

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